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Miracle Mud Refugium with a long term fish resident?? PJ Cardinal comp.5/11/14
<Yawnnnn; good morrow to you Wendy>
Here are the basics:
165 gallon reef tank
LifeReef custom sump
Aqua C 180 EV skimmer
LifeReef Calcium Reactor
LifeReef Refugium 10 gallon
Orphek LED's and a couple t5's
Eco Tech mp40
Alk 9-11 dKH
<Magnesium in proportion?>
20% water changes weekly
sps, lps and a few soft coral
3 Banggai Cardinals (father and 2 of his adolescent offspring)
1 Red Sea Sailfin Tang
<Will get very large in time>
2 PJ Cardinal fish (one in display and one in refugium)
hermits, snails, skunk cleaner shrimp and serpent star
food: pellets, flakes, 3 kinds of frozen and live saltwater minnows
<What is eating this last?>
I have a one eyed "grandpa" PJ Cardinal fish (had him 6 years). He was having his fins nipped off by (the younger, larger, probably same sex) PJ Cardinal fish and an orange line Bristletooth (when the Bristletooth was small it got along with the other fish, but then it hit puberty and became super aggressive-I caught it, gave to fish store).
With the one good eye, "Grandpa PJ" takes a little longer to eat. So with his nipped fins and slow eating habits I was afraid a slow death was going to happen. I put "Grandpa PJ" in our refugium. Here no one picks on him and he can eat at his leisure.
However, will he be ok in there long term?
<Likely so; fine in isolation.
His fins have healed and he looks good. But I am concerned the nutrients from the mud might not be good long term...what do you think?
<See WWM re... this product is fine in the short to long term>
The water flow in the refugium is low, but good circulation. The macro algae is doing ok. There are a couple hermits, a snail and a starfish in the refugium, too. The refugium light comes on at night and off during the day.
I don't think he will make it back in the display even if I can catch the aggressive PJ (been trying for a long time).
<You are probably correct>
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
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Refugium Question; mostly (Miracle) Mud
EcoSystem Aquarium site update 9/5/12
Miracle Mud 7/18/12
Re: recurring Ich problem, now Miracle and other Mud use, SW
Mud, Stocking and icky rock SW Filtration and stocking
Ecosystem Filtration question... - 7/27/10
Shelf Life For Mineral Mud/Substrates/Live Sand
- Opinions on Ecosystem filtration? - Hello WWM crew: <Good morning, JasonC here...> I have been searching the web just looking for new information about reef keeping and I came across a link to the Ecosystem's website. I have heard of this system before and seen it implemented on tanks around the internet. I'm wondering if you have any opinions or experience with this system. <Plenty of opinions, not much experience.> I have a terrible hair algae problem in my tank right now and I am looking for anything that would help. <I'm not sure that an Ecosystem filter would help your algae problems.> Also, the site gave many comparisons and stated that much of the dosing and high-tech equipment that is commonly used is not really needed for the application. I would love this if it is true. I don't really have the money to invest in all the fancy equipment I see everyone else with. At least right now. <I think some of the material written about this method is marketing hype, but all in all, the system is quite viable and works well. I think additional equipment like calcium reactors and skimmers would only compliment an Ecosystem filter.> They say this system is pretty much self sufficient. <In some respects.> I'm sure that your familiar with Mr4000 and his awesome tank. He uses this system and nothing else. <That's what he says.> He only doses with a Ca supplement as needed. No skimmer, no other reactors, nothing, and his tank is amazing! Your insight is always appreciated and highly valued by myself and others I'm sure. <Just keep in mind that there are no true miracles...> Thanks for the time you put in! Stephen Baker <Cheers, J -- >
- Considering Ecosystem Filtration - Hi, This message is for PF. <Sorry, he's not around at the moment, perhaps I can help...> I see that you maintain a tank using the ecosystem method. <I know that he does... many people do.> I am contemplating doing this but I am not yet totally convinced. please see here: I'm planning a 150 gal. fish only coldwater cowfish tank. I'm just wondering if it will have enough filtration. please tell me what you think or would change. ~ 150 gal tank no sand or rock <Should have something in there for decoration, places to hide/sleep etc.> ~ this flows to the first sump which is an ecosystem. Should I keep the bioballs? <The ones that are included with the Ecosystem are part of the 'system' and should be left in place - they are not wet/dry but constantly wet - not a nitrate factory.> ~ this flows to the 2nd sump a 6" DSB (since I don't know if ecosystem will handle the load I'm adding this) <Ecosystem is capable of handling tanks of any size - is a factor of how large a sump you put it in. A marine tank of renown, Mr. 4000 had a 4,000 gallon tank running with Ecosystem filters.> ~ this will then flow to a main sump which will house my protein skimmer and pump. As you can see I'm not totally sure how I want to do this so any help would be greatly appreciated. <I think you are on the right track.> Peace Sal <Cheers, J -- >
I Just Wasted My Money - 'Fuge Question Hello I have a refugium that I want to set up to an existing tank. I bought some Mineral mud and macro media that CaribSea sells as a set. Well it says on the package to let sit for 2 days before turning on pumps and then let tank cycle which tells me I just wasted my money. Can I rinse this?? <Probably not.> Will it hurt the tank to let it cloud up and clear up eventually??. <Don't think it will 'hurt' anything but some portion of your substrate will end up in your filters. I'm guessing the stuff is powder-fine.> And if I am outta luck with this stuff what do you recommend for me to use to add a refugium sump to an existing reef tank?? <Just fill the thing and let it sit, as the instructions suggest. Get it running for real in a couple of days and all will be fine.> Joe <Cheers, J -- >
- Mud Selection - Greetings and salutations WWM crew, I have several tanks (FW and SW) and am doing a little research into setting up a Coral/clam tank. I have decided to use a mud filter. From what I have read, the ecosystem mud is merely dirt with a few additives. I was reading on biosediment and mineral muds and happened to look up and see a bag of Onyx Sand under one of the freshwater tanks. Has anyone ever tried this as a mineral component to a mud filter and what would your thoughts on such an attempt be, if you don't mind sharing them? <To my knowledge, no one has yet used this stuff for a mud sump - I don't know enough about this substrate to say whether or not it would make a suitable substrate for a mud sump.> lee <Cheers, J -- >
F.O.R.M. opinion dear crew of WWM, I just have a quick question about a product I purchased called F.O.R.M, Funky Old Reef Mud, from www.marcweissco.com and I was just wondering how much would you suggest that I put in my 8 gallon tank, and if it is possible to OD with it. Thank you very much -Randy >>I wouldn't use it at all. IMO, Marc Weiss products amount to 'snake oil' and usually only part you from money. FORM and other MW products make astounding claims without any data to back them up. Avoid them like the plague. Rich>>
Mixing In Mud (Mud on Top of Aragonite) Hello Bob or Crewmate, <Scott F. at the keyboard tonight!> I have recently set up a reef tank with two refugia. Both the aquarium and refugia have about 4 inches of fine ESV aragonite that I have inoculated with live sand containing invertebrates from 2 different web vendors. I just bought live mud from Reefer's Madness - when they called it "mud", I had no idea they meant "MUD" - and placed it on top of the aragonite in one refugium so that there is about 1 inch of dense, gooey black mud on top of the 4 inches of aragonite. Is there a possibility of creating an oxygen-free or oxygen-depleted zone in the aragonite that will kill the tiny invertebrates in the aragonite? <Always a possibility when you are putting additional substrate on top of existing material. However, if you spread the mud out enough, it may not be too much of a problem at all> I can see tiny red bristleworms in the aragonite and I don't want to kill them. Will the invertebrates in the aragonite avoid the gooey mud? <Some will avoid the mud, others will be happy to mingle into the gooey stuff...Not a really precise answer- but that's the simple truth!> If so, should I make a "mess" and mix the aragonite with the mud? Thank you, Joseph Rouse <Good question. If it were me, I'd be careful about disturbing the sand bed. At this stage of the game, I'd just leave the mud alone and keep an eye on the life in the sandbed for any adverse reactions. Best of luck to you! Regards, Scott F.>
Mud and the refugium Ok I'll pass on the Miracle Mud.. got that. You spoke of Dead Sea Mud as beneficial... What I find is for cosmetic human uses. I am looking for Dead Sea Mud for my refugium. Did I misunderstand the reference? <Mmm, I do think Red Sea (company) is now marketing such a product> The discussion was about refugium mud?? Where do I find a source to buy some for my refugium? What do you think about the benefit of GARF mud? Thank You, Alya <GARF's products are almost uniformly inferior... some of them outright hoaxes. Look for EcoSystem Aquarium IMO... The various etailers, most larger retailers sell this, other mud products... by CaribSea, Kent... Bob Fenner>
Mud 8/15/05 WWM crew- <Chadd> Thanks for all of the help over the years. Your last reply to my question about a suffering Pectinia sp. really helped. It has finished healing and was puffed up really big this morning. <Ah, good> I have read though a lot of pages on Miracle Mud-MM and refugiums. Currently, I have a 35 gal refugium on a 140gal tank, and around 250lbs of live rock and 4-5in DSB which was set up in the beginning of 2004. Most of the live rock is over five years old from my old tank. <A good idea to augment, switch a bit of this out annually> There is mix of 10 lbs of "Mineral Mud" (that's right I said Mineral Mud it's by CaribSea, it was cheaper) and 10-15lbs of live sand (to get it started). There is about an inch of this mix in the refugium, with 20lbs of live rock, Caulerpa, Chaetomorpha, bristle worms, and worms of 'pods and "bugs". My Caulerpa is from Indo Pacific, it has long 12" feather leaves and it is growing pretty well. My refugium is not covered in Caulerpa, but I think that is because of the low nutrient levels. I skim 24/7/365. My skimmer produces a dark waste about 1-2 cups per week. And I do regular 15 gal water changes each week. My question has to do with adding Miracle Mud. I would like to add this to my refugium. A friend runs his tank with no skimmer and Miracle MUD in his refugium. He does not add any calcium based products (like bio calcium or Kalk) to his system and his tank is flourishing. He says that the MM provides all the calcium and mineral supplements he needs. Is this true? It must be since his tank is incredible. <Mmm, maybe for him... I encourage folks to supplement biominerals and use skimmers with Leng's Mud> How would I go about adding MM from the 20lbs of live sand/mineral mud mix? <Could add it right on top, or mix in...> I read that you recommend live sand or MM, but not both. Should I just add MM slowly over a period of a week? <Could> I would like to take advantage of MM if it does replace adding Kalkwasser and bio calcium. <Again... if you have much in the way of biomineralizing life in this system, you should test, will very likely have to supplement...> How can I accomplish this? I was thinking about dividing the bottom of the refugium into two different sections with a piece of Plexiglas. Moving over the substrate that is establish and adding the Miracle Mud to the newly created spot in the refugium. <Sounds like a good approach> One of my major concerns is a Cyano outbreak. What do you think about this process? 1) Remove live rock, algae, as many 'pods as possible into a few buckets. 2) Shift the sand/mud mix over to one side and insert the Plexiglas. 3) Siphon 1/2 the cloudy/detritus water, let things settle and siphon the new bare spot of all remaining detritus down to about one to two inches. 4) Add Miracle Mud to the new bare spot and slowly add water from the main tank and replenishing new water directly to the main tank. 5) Let things settle down again and then add rock, algae, and pods back into the refugium. 6) Do regular water changes over the next few weeks and regular maintenance (clean skimmer, change carbon weekly, and add phosphate remover if necessary). <Okay> As I said, my refugium is teaming with life. Should I just leave things alone? <Up to you> I would like to get about 15lbs of MM added to the refugium. The main reason for wanting to add MM is for the mineral supplements for my tank, which is mainly SPS. And because I want to spend my hard earned money on MUD and battle a Cyano/algae outbreak for a month or two (Hopefully not, but I know that it is very possible). Sorry for the long email, but maybe this will help other people with the process of overhauling their refugiums. <I hope so as well> Thanks, Chadd Elliott <Bob Fenner... who generally is of the opinion, "if it ain't broke...">
Aquatic Eco Systems pump needs assistance - 9/19/05 This may not be the e mail site for assistance but I know it must be a lead. <Hopefully we can help> I purchased a clean stream 1200 filter UV from Aquatic Eco-Systems Inc <This is the manufacturer correct?> and now need parts. They sent me to "England", calling Tropical Marine Center only to be told parts are purchased in the US. They provided the wrong e mail address and searching now found you. <I went to the Aquatic Ecosystems site: http://www.aquaticeco.com/ and right at the top is a place to enter a part number to search for pricing and availability. I had no problems navigating their site at all. There is an online catalog, phone numbers and email links, retailers sites etc. Seems like it can help actually.> Where can I get parts for this filter. <I would imagine from either the manufacturer or an authorized retailer> Right now I am not filtering because I need one locknut and one gasket and one blue hosetail - no one seems to be able to assist me and my pond is stagnating!! <Hmmmm. Do do some water changes and add an airstone or two for now until you can get what you need but I would certainly lean on the Manufacturer of the pump for parts.> I also want a lead on who can I get more filter material, bags and netting for the future. <Again, I say all this is available on their site.> I will take two of each of the above locknut, gasket and hosetail. <Good luck to you. ~Paul> Help Thanks in Advance Howard Hurst FORM - 01/24/06 Hello, I am using the Mark Weiss product called FORM. <Another copy cat Miracle Mud...> Apparently this adds iodine, strontium and magnesium. <...> Is there no need to add these products singularly, or should I be doing both? I was using Kent iodine etc. but in South Africa, we are paying 4 x the price you pay in the US. <Look into Lugol's instead... can be bought from the pharmacist for a fraction> As I have a big tank I am hoping the FORM does replace them. <Not IMO> Also, I have just bought a big leather coral. When I took it out the bag it had a terrible smell. A day later it smells ok, like the sea. He has all his tentacles out and looks fine, but he does have a couple of yellow patches on him. Does he sound ok to you? <Maybe> Bob's booked just arrived in the post. Woohoo! <Am sure you will enjoy, gain by its reading> Kind Regards, James Barclay <And to you. Bob Fenner, who would skip the FORM, all of Weiss' line> Miracle mud Hey there ,Walter Here. Can you Explain to me what this Ecosystem miracle mud thing is all about?? <You can check their website re this, or our site here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mudfiltrfaqs.htm> I have a hard time swallowing this without using a protein skimmer. <I differ with the owner/manager Leng Sy here as well... most folks do well by using a skimmer in addition to a mud/refugium... at least for a few months...> How well does it work for reef tanks, and does it work??? I have my doubts maybe you can shed some light on the subject <Does "work"... have seen systems with this material, suggested set-up in many places. Bob Fenner> Walter
Miracle Mud vs. Kent Marine Biosediment Dear Bob, I am constructing my own ecosystem style sump and I was curious as to whether the Kent Marine Biosediment was any worse/better than Miracle Mud. The Kent product is about one fifth the price and I would much rather use the less expensive product if there was little difference. -Adam <Have only just heard of this product... another erstwhile copy... Don't know anything about it firsthand, haven't heard others opinions. Would try the chatforums. Bob Fenner>