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FAQs on Tap/Source Water Use for Marine Aquariums, Troubleshooting
Related Articles: Treating Tap water for
Marine Aquarium Use, Water
Purification Using Reverse Osmosis,
Related FAQs: Treating Tapwater 1,
Treating Tapwater 2, Treating
Tapwater 3, & FAQs on New Water Treatment:
Rationale/Science, Chemicals (Chlorine,
Chloramines, Trihalomethanes...),
Filtrants, Techniques/Tools,
Testing, Products by
Manufacturer/Brand, DIY Treatment
Chemicals/Tools, &
Reverse Osmosis Filtration, Specific
Gravity, Water Purification Using R.O 1.
RO/DI 2, RO/DI 3,
Nitrates, Water Changes, |
Tap/Source water is NOT a consistent product... Seasonally or moment
to moment. It IS treated occasionally with MUCH higher
concentrations of sanitizer, flocculant, et al. |
SW Water Quality Issues: Silicates\TDS RO/DI Softeners, etc.
5/4/2009
<Hello again Penny,>
I recently bought a silicate test (Seachem) and a TDS Meter and what an
eye opener these two purchases were.
<Hehehe, they usually are.>
Our house runs off of a 400ft well. I have a home RO unit (no DI) and
have recently changed all filters and membranes so these numbers are as
good as it gets so far:
Tap water: 1090 TDS!
RO water: 109 TDS! (so 90% removal rate)
<Less than optimal, but not surprising. What is the water
pressure\temperature? out of the tap?>
Silicates in tank are about 4-5
<A bit high.>
I have some problems with Cyano blooms, could this be because of the 4-5
reading?
<No>
I know is s/b 0 but is 4-5 a horrible number? It's not off the chart but
higher than I like.
<Not horrible, but lower is better>
I run two Phosban reactors (TLF's), one has carbon and the other has
Rowaphos (recently switched
to this from another brand-last water change). I am hoping the Rowaphos
helps brings down the silicate readings, it says it aids in silicate
removal, is this true?
<Yes it does.>
All my water changes have been done with water from a drive thru
dispensing machine which I have checked and it has 3 TDS's which is
stellar compared to my crappy water, and 0 for silicates. But I was
using my 109 RO water for the ATO on my 90g tank. I assume this is where
my silicates have come from.
<Likely so.>
I am now using all store bought water for everything. I am hoping this
will help turn around my Cyano blooms???
<It certainly cannot hurt, but if you remember the articles I referred
to you earlier, Cyano is normally caused by excess organic nutrients
and\or a lack of competition for what nutrients are there.>
Again, I am not sure how bad 4-5 is as a silicate reading. I am having a
water treatment guy (rep from the drive thru water source) come to my
house and assess my situation and hopefully get me on track to being
able to use my own water source. I was told by my LFS that adding two DI
add on units would greatly help my situation, do you think this is
true??
<You will see positive results with a DI unit. I'm not sure if two are
necessary.>
I was also told by the rep guy that my water softener (which is not
working properly anyways) is really not big enough to handle my TDS/
Hardness count, I should have a bigger model. Do you think this is BS??
It makes a bit of sense to me that the softener does dissolve some of
the hardness and solids in the water.
<By default, you should not use water from a water softener for an
aquarium. Straight RO\DI from the tap is better For that matter, what
does your tap water test out for straight from the tap.>
I am having to do weekly/bi weekly water changes to keep the Cyano in
check on the sandbed which is costing me a fortune in store bought water
now that I am using it for everything (ATO is about 2-3g a day!).
<Hmm, I wonder if it would be better to get a dedicated RO\DI system for
your tank. It will probably be cheaper in the long run.>
So do you think I am on the right track with the above mentioned things?
<I would not use a softener for your aquarium water, otherwise, yes.>
Will the Rowaphos help with silicates?
<Yes, it will>
Will water changes bring them down enough or should I buy a silicate
remover product? If so which one?
<Rowaphos is fine.>
And could the 4-5 silicates be causing my blooms?
<No>
My tank is a 90 gallon, about 3-4 months old, 100lbs+ LR, 1.5" SB, 3
Vortech MP40's for movement, 2x250w MH 14,500K (Giesemann), 2xActinic
Plus T5's (Giesemann), Eheim 1262 for return pump, Bubble king 180
skimmer, Nitrite-0, Nitrate-0, Phosphate-0, Ammonia-0.
Is there a clean up crew that deals with cleaning the sandbed better?
I don't have dead spots really but am wondering if something other than
crabs (don't eat it) will eat the Cyano? Or keep the sandbed mixed up.
<There are several creatures that will keep your sandbed mixed up. Read
here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marsiftfaqs.htm >
My fish are: Hippo tang, yellow tang, Foxface, 2 blk clowns, 1 Sixline,
1 lawnmower blenny. Stocking OK?
<Yep.>
Everyone gets along great.
My lighting timers are Actinics from 9:30am-8:30pm, MH's are from
11:15am-7pm. Is this too long of a span?
<You can reduce it a bit to help with the Cyano problem.>
Sorry for the long winded email.
<No worries.>
One last question.... Do you guys have an address where cases of beer
can be delivered for providing such a great service???
<Heheheh.>
Thanks for all your help, you guys are the life savers of the SW
community!!
<My pleasure>
<Mike>
Re: SW Water Quality Issues: Silicates\TDS RO/DI Softeners,
etc. 5/5/2009
I don't use my softener water for my tank directly. The well water runs
through the softener first before heading to the RO unit. I also have
purchased a booster pump which I forgot to mention before for my
RO unit.
<Ahh, OK.>
I tested my "straight from well" water and it's 1130 TDS.
Water through our ill functioning softener is 1100. Water through our RO
is 93. These are numbers as of 5 minutes ago. You were asking about
pressure, our house pressure tank is set at 50/20. But for the RO unit
I do have a booster pump. Do you have any good brand suggestions for an
add on DI unit(s)?
<I buy my RO\DI equipment from these guys -
http://www.thefilterguys.biz/index.htm >
I have been dosing Kent's Marine Buffer for PH/Alk levels to keep my Alk
at about 9. Could this be a Cyano causer?
<Possible.>
I don't dose every day, maybe once a week but ever since I started
dosing it my Cyano started.
Nothing before then.
<Keep up the water changes and stop adding the buffer. I've found that
not adding any supplements when fighting Cyano does seem to help.> >
I have been trying to find someone who has Chaeto in Canada as no doubt
I can't ship it across the line. How big of a chunk do you need growing
to be beneficial?
<A small chunk is fine, it will grow very quickly in the right
conditions.>
I am just stumped as to my Cyano cause.
<I know the feeling - been fighting it myself - I'm finally winning. It
does take time. I've been fighting it for a month.>
I don't feel I am over feeding. I am not one of those people who do no
research before getting into this hobby. I feel I have really great
husbandry skills and am willing to do whatever it takes to solve this. I
keep hoping it will go away with all my water changes and lack of
feeding.
Thank you again for such a fast response. I am still needing an address
to ship the beer to.
<Heheheh I'll have to have Bob chime in here. The shipping costs to
Florida would be astronomical.>
<<Maybe we can just swing by your place to tip a few? RMF>>
Thanks again.
<My pleasure>
Penny
<Mike>
AquaC EV-120 vs. Tap Water Conditioner - Round 1 1/23/09
Hi
All,
<Thomas.>
I am just looking for a quick suggestion from you,
if you would be so kind.
<Sure.>
My setup is a 135 gal mixed reef,
mainly softies, some fish, and a 40 gal sump/refugium.
I have a
brand new EV-120 skimmer, and I've always used Tetra Aqua AquaSafe Tap
Water conditioner with BioExtract to condition my 5 gal of make up water
I add every 3 days or so. Apparently, this water conditioner causes the
EV series skimmers to foam like crazy.
I would really appreciate it
if you could suggest for me:
1. The best method for removing the
conditioner that currently remains in the tank.
<Carbon or just
time.>
2. A quality product for conditioning my make up water that
won't cause the skimmer to foam like crazy.
<I personally always used
Kordon AmQuel in my pre RO days. See:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/treath2o.htm for even
cheaper/better options.>
Thank you very much for your expertise and
time.
Thomas Bolton
<Welcome, Scott V.> Re: AquaC
EV-120 vs. Tap Water Conditioner- Round 2 2/2/09
Thank you!
<Happy to help.>
I just wanted to follow up to let you
know that I have switched to AmQuel+ and have been able to slowly
increase
the output of the pump going to the skimmer as the days pass
and the amount of BioExtract in the water disappears.
<Great! Many of
these bio mumbo jumbo concoctions are great for making a skimmer go
nuts!>
The EV-120 skimmer is pretty awesome, and I would recommend it
to anyone.
:)
<Definitely.>
Thanks for your help!
Thomas
Bolton
<Welcome, Scott V.>
Water conditioners in a reef tank 2/21/08
I have a question
regarding water conditioners. I add Prime to my tap water when I perform
water changes/top offs and I was recently told that water conditioners
such as this will kill the pods in my tank. Is this true?
<That
statement is a bit extreme, but generally speaking, tap water is bad for
marine inverts.>
Would water conditioners have a negative impact on
coral?
<If not the Prime, then the other things in the tap water,
yes.>
So far I haven't observed anything bad happening. My usual top
off method is to put a couple of drops in the bucket I'm using then
filling it with water and adding it either directly to the tank or to
the sump/refugium. Of course when I do water changes
I let the water
sit for a few days to settle. Is it significantly better to use RO/DI
water and avoid the water conditioners?
<The benefits of using RO/DI
water go far beyond just avoiding water conditioners. Unless you live in
rural Montana (or some other such odd place where the tap water is
nearly pure), your tap water is loaded with stuff you don't want in your
reef aquarium. Please see here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/watrqualmar.htm
And do a search on WWM for
RO/DI and tap water filtration.>
Thanks, you guys are always a big
help.
<De nada,
Sara M.>
Not so much of a question, but more of a warning. Tapwater use...
5/7/07
Hello Crew,
<Mike>
Just writing this in the hopes
that you pass it on. Previously, I subscribed to the theory that if tap
water is safe for humans to drink, it is safe for the fish once properly
treated.
<Mmm, you're learning...>
Yesterday, I did my normal
15% water change on my 300G FOWLR. Prior to the water change, my
readings were Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, and Nitrate
<5ppm (API test
kit).
About one hour after adding the new water, the tanks looked a
bit cloudy, and the twelve fish in the tank (species not relevant to
this letter), were acting "odd". Difficult to describe odd, but you
understand what I mean when your fish are just not acting like they
normally do.
I tested the water again: Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0.5ppm,
Nitrate <5ppm.
To make a long story short, after checking all of my
equipment and not finding any problems, I tested my tap water; the
nitrite level was somewhere between 0.5 and 1.0 ppm straight out of the
faucet.
<Yikes>
I added a bottle of "Cycle" to the tank to help
the system along.
<Mmm, not a consistent/useful product
unfortunately>
the nitrite level was down to 0.25 ppm within 90
minutes and back down to 0 ppm by the next morning.
<Likely your
nitrifiers effect>
So, my RO\DI unit should be arriving this week,
and my water utility will be getting an angry call from me in the
morning.
<Good luck t/here>
So, just a friendly reminder to the
WWM readers, if you use tap water, make sure you spot check it from time
to time!
<Good!>
Thanks again for this wonderful resource,
Mike
<Thank you for sharing Mike... You have saved many organisms,
and many aquarist head- and heart-aches. Bob Fenner>
Chloramine Deaths.
Hi There,
<cheers!>
Recently, I've had
deaths in my tanks directly after partial water changes that must have
been chloramine-related.
<Not likely... more commonly a discrepancy
in temperature or pH. Do you really have so much Chloramine that you can
smell it from feet away? Most dechlorinators easily neutralize this
treatment>
I unfortunately used a "one-step" product for my water
changes that I will never use again.
<do reconsider that most every
Dechlor product is virtually identical in efficacy>
A friend told me
about your site. I'm glad he did! I've did a good deal of reading of
your site. I'm intrigued about your "vat method," -- letting water sit
or be mixed for a week or more before being added.
<chlorine will
dissipate in open air but chloramine never will... a chemical bond that
must be broken (with a de-Ammoniating product.. most conditioners)>
My question is, what will this method do, if anything, to "toxic
metals?"
<absolutely nothing>
Should I be concerned about this?
<hmmm... rare in potable tap water. If concerned, get a prefilter
stuffed with PolyFilter pads to draw water through>
Thanks! Walter B.
Klockers Plano, TX
<best regards, Anthony Calfo> Re: fish in
dire need
Hi folks, I just sent Bob an e-mail, I think he must be
traveling the world again this week.
<Just out in HI. Did you get my
previous response?>
I have a serious problem that I cannot figure
out. I live in the Twin Cities (Minnesota for those who are
geographically challenged) I have 5 large systems that do not share
water. I have friends that are all over the Twin Cities, Chicago and
Milwaukee. ALL of us are having the same issue, in the past week we have
all lost "rock solid" healthy fish in large numbers. I have done
autopsies on 7 large fish and a Hybrid Clownfish I have had for 3 years.
We all have some sort of Amyloodinium. My friend in Chicago has a very
very high end set up, He has not lost a fish in 2 years- he lost 7
overnight. I lost angels, tangs, butterflies, clowns, Anthias, a Moorish
Idol I had for 2 years, blue spot Jawfish, a red sea wrasse. Different
tanks with very different systems throughout my house. We are
desperately searching for answers. The symptoms are extremely heavy
breathing for 5-6 hours, slightly clouded eyes, and within 24 hours the
fish are dead. I started a Tetracycline dip for all the remaining fish,
I have very large tanks so this is no small undertaking. I have kept
fish for 20 + years and have never seen this happen. ANY
SUGGESTIONS??????
<Sounds like something... like chloramine, alum...
being "pulsed" (over-added) into the potable supply to counter a deficit
in the concentration of sanitizer or in an attempt to whack a high TBC
or even coliform bacteria count... I would enquire of your water co.
(their number is on your bill) immediately and ALSO acquire a chloramine
test kit pronto... and see how much stock dechloraminator it takes to
knock the titer out. In the meanwhile, DO NOT change water in your
systems if you can avoid it, and store any water to be used for a good
week before any change. Bob Fenner> Re: fish in dire need
Hi Bob, Ananda here with a request for clarification and more questions
on this.
>> We all have some sort of Amyloodinium. My friend in
Chicago has a very very
>> high end set up, He has not lost a fish in
2 years- he lost 7 overnight.
Ack! Even in the far western 'burbs,
my source water is from Lake Michigan.... I wonder if this person was
using an RO/DI setup.
> <Sounds like something... like chloramine,
alum... being "pulsed" (over-added) into the
> potable supply to
counter a deficit in the concentration of sanitizer or in an attempt to
> whack a high TBC or even coliform bacteria count...
TBC = total
bacteria count?
<<Yes>>
Is this something that might survive a
poorly-maintained grocery store type of RO unit?
<<No. Reverse
osmosis units will exclude all bacteria>
They supposedly have UV
sterilizers on them, but I doubt their effectiveness: I think the water
flows by them too fast. Would one of those tap water purifiers help? A
full-blown RO/DI system is not in the budget right now....
> In the
meanwhile, DO NOT change water in your systems if you can avoid it,
How long is this sort of problem likely to last?
<<A few days. Bob
F>>
Thanks,
Ananda
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