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Purified Drinking Water OK to use? 1/7/2016 start-up reef tank water /Darrel
2/26/11 Algae Problems (Tap Water Filtration) --
06/12/09 Water Quality I've been using an RO system for my water in my reef and everything is fine. My Question is when setting up or maintaining a reef is bottled water just as good? What's the difference between the RO I'm using and the bottled Drinking water some people have delivered to their house? <Mmm, there is a huge variation in what goes as "bottled water"... a good deal of these products are reverse osmosis run tap... The biggest difference to me is cost. Bottled water is hundreds of times more money than make it yourself RO... not counting gas et al. to get it, the time and trouble to lug it about. Please read: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/water4maruse.htm Bob Fenner> Thanks Dean Mikulla Re: Water Quality Thanks for the help. I'm working for a Maintenance company and I'm kind of the "reef guy". I know how to take care of my own reef ,but it's in the living room of my own house. Successively Taking care of reefs that I'm only at twice a month is my newest problem. Thanks again for the advice. Dean M. <Having done this myself for years (though years back) I can/do empathize... always a "holiday" to re-visit accounts. We had reef systems on a minimum of once a week schedules... often two, even three times visits a week. Bob Fenner> It's The Water! A while back I think I remember you advising someone to buy water labeled "drinking water" from Wal-Mart, etc. to use in their saltwater aquariums if they were on well water or had otherwise unacceptable tap water. <Hmm?> Does water labeled "drinking water" contain chlorine? <I'm not sure if there is some FDA standards that water needs to conform with to be labeled "drinking water", but I'd hazard a guess that most water bottled for human consumption contains some chlorine, and possibly other things that are not so good for fishes.> Would I still have to dechlorinate it? <I'd err on the side of caution. Frankly, I'd look for a source of reverse osmosis water, if you can. "Drinking Water" or "Spring Water" are rather vague descriptions for our purposes. I'm sure that the water would work if you use a water preparation product, such as Kordon's Amquel, and maybe run a filter with some activated carbon in the water before it's use> Also, is saltwater poured down the drain harmful to septic systems? <I'd definitely check with your septic system service first on that one> Thanks very much. Linda from the sticks of South Carolina <Hope that I was able to clear up a few things, or provoke some more questions! Take Care, Scott F.> Water Workings Hi <Good Evening! Scott F. here> I know you get this type of question all the time, please bare with me. I'm about to begin the process of owning a salt water aquarium. For now, my question is regarding water. Treating tap water with the products from PetSmart pet store for the initial setup is a good idea. If so which products should I use? Can you give an suggestion? <Really depends upon the type of water that you have, pH, chlorine/chloramine content, etc. In general, its a good idea to start by testing your tap water for nitrate, phosphate, and possibly silicate. Concentrations of heavy metals, such as copper, may be present in tap water in certain areas. If you're going use tap water, ideally, you should use a commercial dechlorinator product, such as Kordon's Novaqua or Amquel, and filter the tapwater with activated carbon. See the link http://wetwebmedia.com/water4maruse.htm for more information on treating tapwater.> If not which type of RO filter should I purchase that would be adequate for keeping reef and fish aquarium. There so many types 1-9 stages filters. It very confusing. <There are many possibilities, depending on your pocketbook and the degree to which your tapwater needs to be treated. Usually, a 3 stage RO/DI system is sufficient, but there are all sorts of add-ons to remove undesirables like silica, etc. More expensive, but less wasteful than RO is a deionizer, which produces great quality water with no waste. best to consult with your local water department to get an H20 quality report, then decide what system makes the most sense for you. Check the resources on the wetwebmedia.com site for more details on RO/DI, and other water pre-treatment methods. Good luck!> thanks you very much <You're welcome!> Tap Water Thank you for your help with my past questions. This question concerns Tap water and my 55 gallon reef tank. We have hard water in our area (Jacksonville, Florida) I have tested our tap water and it turned out surprisingly good. No nitrate or phosphate. Is it safe to use (once dechlorinated) in my reef tank? I am trying to encourage coralline algae growth. Thank you, Andrew < My pat answer to this question remains the same: Yes, in all cases where you would drink and cook with the tapwater, it is fine to use in marine/reef systems. There is more solids, nutrient base, sources of pollution to be had in salt mixes, foods, decor, ordinary aerosols in the area around the systems than the incidental possible negative chemical species in tap water. There are some areas in the U.S. and abroad where I would not use the tap for drinking or pet-fish... There I would utilize reverse osmosis filtration. Bob Fenner> Out of function Water Conditioners, retail in general Now you have me feeling real guilty. Every time I go to work now, I wonder what the hell I am doing. I work at the LFS. I just read one of your articles on De-chlorinators "water conditioners". I know you could not give names on the web site. But please tell me what the phony brands of conditioners are. I do not want to sell these any more to my customers. <Good for you... look for the ones that "only" have sodium thiosulfate/ sulfite in them... these won't work on chloramines... like the old Weco products (which we're great in the years of chlorine use as a disinfect of tapwater> We have so much **** in my store. I probably suggest and sell 10% of the junk we sell. <Ahh! Time to identify and trade out, discount, get rid of anything that doesn't turn (sell of course) at least four times a year (unless it's more of a display item... like tanks, stands perhaps)... Free up your working capital, save space, and your peace of mind!> You have been most helpful and I have truly learned much for you and the Wet Web Media crew. And, If you have time could you explain how the so called "slime coat enhancers" work (or don't work for that matter) in these dechlorinators? How do they affect and eventually kill the fish? <Some are "simple coaters", adding a bit to the proteinaceous (non cellular) coating on fishes (more slime), others spur the fishes to produce a bit more mucin... they're transient in effect... analogous to a band-aid you might put on a child's cut... and don't kill the fishes. Bob Fenner> Thank you so much Water Prep...Some Things Are Best Done Yourself - 06/21/06 Hi Crew, how's tricks? <<Hiya Debi!>> I have been reading a lot to find it and see no specific answer to this question and am pretty confused at this point so I decided that I should write. <<Mmm okay, let's see if I can help...>> First here are the parameters: Six months old 46 gallon Bowfront reef with one frogspawn, one xenia, one lawnmower blenny and one sand sifting goby (who sifts his sand onto the live rock), <<A big reason I prefer Amblygobius species for this...not so bad with "crop dusting" the top of the reef>> one cleaner shrimp, various snails and red- and blue-legged snails and crabs. <<Snails with legs, eh? <grin> >> 50 lbs. live rock, Ammonia-0, Ph 8.2, Alk 3.0, Calcium 440, Phos (reads 0) probably being taken up by algae, <<Yup>> Nitrate-0, Nitrite-0, SG 1.023 <<I would raise the specific gravity to natural seawater levels (1.025/1.026)>> Temp 79-80, Aqua-C Remora skimmer HOB going 24/7, Seio 620 Power Head, Aqua-Clear Power Filter running Chemi-Pure and Phos-Ban, also has a sponge that is cleaned every few days. My problem is with my water preparation. I buy my water from the LFS, both salt and RO/DI for top off. After much reading I am afraid I am not doing it correctly. <<Oh?>> I don't do anything to it before using either one. <<If the LFS has prepared/stored it correctly you shouldn't have to>> I just put it in. Sometimes, actually most of the time, I hold the water for several days before using it, especially the top-off water. <<Aerated during this time?>> Am I supposed to be preparing it in some way like aeration or buffering before I use it? <<Ahh, okay... Firstly, let me suggest you test this water for alkalinity/calcium/pH...test it right after purchase, and then again after at least 24 hours with aeration. This should give you an idea of whether or not the LFS is "maturing" the water before sale. But anyhoo... Yes, I would aerate this water for 24 hours before use...and buffer "as needed" based on your test results>> I have consistently sort of low Alkalinity even though I add either B-Ionic 2-part or baking soda to try to get it up higher. <<Odd>> The calcium is usually around 440 and this is without the addition of the 2-part of any other type of calcium. <<Hmm...seems artificially high for freshly mixed seawater. I wonder if the LFS is boosting (or overdosing, in this case) with a calcium chloride supplement? Which might also be suppressing your alkalinity>> My pH is usually about 8.1 to 8.3 or 8.4 toward the evening. <<All good>> I would like to keep it around 8.4 at the lowest. <<Often a difficult endeavor, but dosing Kalkwasser may help here>> I also have a raging hair algae problem and have no explanation for this. <<Mmm, let me make an amendment to my earlier suggestion...in addition to the afore mentioned tests of the water from the LFS, add tests for nitrate and phosphorus>> I have tested the LFS water that I use and it shows no phosphates <<I really should start reading ahead...>> and since I am not really feeding at this point due to my lack of fish that need it I don't feel that nutrients are a problem, although I also recently have some brown on the sand that I assume is diatoms. <<Likely so>> I have no idea what can be causing all this algae. <<Something in the water would be my guess...how do you feel about filtering/preparing your own?>> I do 15% water changes weekly, so far as vacuuming the sand, I go back and forth on that and so have only done it once in the six months I have had this tank running. <<Not usually necessary with vigorous water movement...in my opinion>> I tend to get mixed advice on whether or not I should be vacuuming. The sand bed I have is only 1 to 1-1/2 inches in most places. <<With this substrate depth I say "up to you!"...though a bit of vacuuming with water changes may prove helpful with your current algae situation>> So I want to know if I should be doing the water differently and do you think it is making a difference in my alkalinity, calcium and pH? <<Yes, yes, yes...and yes>> Also if you have any more suggestions on the algae problem I would love to hear them. <<Have you read here ( http://www.wetwebmedia.com/avoidingalgaeproblesm.htm), and among the indices at the top of the page?>> Thanks, Debi <<Quite welcome, EricR>> Water Prep...Some Things Are Best Done Yourself II - 06/22/06 Thanks for the reply. <<You're welcome>> Yes, I think I may have read everything on this site, well, I obviously couldn't have, but it sure seems like it. <<Hee!...truly "gads" of information to be found here>> I have spent many many many hours reading what you guys <<gals too!>> have to say and find it most helpful. <<...but...>> In answer to your question on my filtering and processing my own water. I really have no place to do that as I have read that the RO/DI systems are very slow and I have no faucets I can dedicate to that. <<Mmm...it is true the RO systems are "pokey" (even my 100gpd system requires "all day" to fill a 55g drum), but a "dedicated" water source is hardly required. A simple adapter can be utilized to attach/run the unit from "any" faucet as/when convenient. Another option is to use a quality Kati-Ani deionization unit which produces filtered water at a much greater rate than an RO unit>> I live in a large metropolis area and have a choice of LFS to choose from and have used at least two of them in this endeavor. <<Yet you are still having issues...>> As you see I have tested their water, both of them, for phosphates, not nitrates. <<Might be worth a test for NO3>> But, I do not aerate their water and did not even know it was something I should do until now. Yes, I do hold it on a regular basis for several days with no aeration. So I gather I should not do that? <<I doubt this is cause for all your water ills, but aeration will be beneficial for increasing oxygen, better mixing/maturation of "raw" seawater, and blowing off carbon dioxide (and possibly raising pH as a result)>> I don't see what that could have to do with the algae though. <<You stated yourself, you have no fish/don't overfeed...if the source of algae fuel is not the water, then what?...your rock?...your substrate?>> So here is my plan based on what you have suggested. I will do several 15% water changes, say two to three days apart. I will vacuum the sand substrate. Is it acceptable to scrub the rocks of the hair algae while they are in the tank? <<Using the hose to siphon away the algae as you scrub?...sure!>> The worst ones can't be removed without tearing down the tank and disturbing the two corals a lot. <<understood>> I have given thought to getting a "sea hare", would that help. <<Genus Aplysiidae? Possibly...and much more so than the more commonly available Tridachia crispata aka "lettuce nudibranch". Though I have always found the sea hare to be prone to physical damage and its subsequent demise. A better biological control might be Turbo fluctuosa, the giant Mexican turbo snail...or even one of the Salarias or Atrosalarias blennies>> I recently changed LFS water suppliers thinking that would help, but I swear it got worse after that, so I am going back to the original. <<Hmm...>> This particular one uses Seachem Reef Salt but only keeps it at 1.022. <<A fine salt brand>> I was thinking I should add salt to bring it up to 1.025, would that be better? <<Yes>> Also, let me make sure I understand. The RO/DI water should be at the correct pH before it goes in the tank? <<It should...else the water in your tank has to make up for the deficiency...if it can>> What is the best way to bring up the pH and should the alkalinity be brought up also? <<BOTH should be adjusted. I like Seachem Reef Buffer...and for economy, I have found that "cutting" this with 3-parts sodium bicarbonate to 1-part buffer is quite satisfactory>> I don't think the LFS is adding anything to their salt mixture other than the salt itself. The current one uses Seachem Reef Plus I think. The former used Fritz?. <<Mmm, not familiar to me>> I really appreciate your help as I am just about to throw this thing out the window thinking that would at least get rid of the algae. Maybe you can help me come up with a better solution. Thanks again, Debi <<I want to help Debi, but you haven't mentioned anything to raise any flags to me other than I think your water source may be suspect. Are you adding any liquid coral foods?...other "supplements" you haven't mentioned? After reading through the data on nuisance algae on our site, what's "your" take on the cause of the algae problem?...let's discuss further if you wish. Regards, EricR>> Water Prep...Some Things Are Best Done Yourself III - 06/24/06 Thanks for your patience and willingness to keep at this. <<Quite welcome>>>> I have indeed read everything on the algae subject and am truly stumped. I thought at first, a couple of months ago, that I was getting to much bad stuff because I was adding the frozen food and its juice when feeding. <<A small contributor...in my opinion>> I used to have fish, well I had two clowns, one royal Gramma, one yellow tang (but he only lasted hours so I think he was sick when I got him), and a six-lined wrasse. All died mysteriously and at different times and after being in the tank for various times from a few days for the Gramma and the wrasse (different times) to a few weeks for the clowns, (that died at different times after just going downhill for several days and then keeling over). <<This is telling...either you have more serious issues with your water, something in the system is poisoning the system (something in the rock or substrate maybe), or your source for these fish was/is bad (did all the fish come from the same LFS?)>> Several emails to your site and several people trying, but never got an answer to that. <<Do consider my previous statement...thinks about any links/correlations to the dying fish>> All agreed that my tests were right on target and I was apparently doing everything right, but obviously something was bad. <<Have you tried new/different brand test kits to validate your findings?>> So, I decided not to add any more fish until I had let it sit just the way it is for several weeks and until I got the algae problem under control. <<Smart...is best...>> It has now been about five weeks since the last clown died and the blenny and the goby and the corals have all been here all along and seem to be doing perfectly fine. <Hmm...did the blenny and goby come from the same source?...did they come from the same source as the fish that died?>> The only things I could ever come up with is that being new and not thinking I know I had perfume on my arms at least once when I was messing around in the tank and decided that maybe I had poisoned somebody, <<A possibility...>> and once I cleaned up a Cyano problem and let a lot of get mixed into the water, again inexperience, and shortly after that my clowns got sick so maybe that was something. <<I don't think this killed your fish>> Otherwise I have not a clue. So, back to the original problem. My suspicion is that it has to be the water, but when I test it tests fine. <<Maybe something you haven't/can't test for>> I take it to the LFSs and they all say it is great. <<Again, maybe something not tested/can't be tested with hobby kits. Have/can you confirm that they/you store the water in suitable, clean, chemically inert containers?>> I have no temperature fluctuations, I know this because I have the heaters on a controller. My lights are on for 12 hours total, the actinics come on one hour before the main lights and go off one hour after the main lights do, so actually 10 hours of main lights. <<is fine>> I have the Coralife 2x96 compact fluorescents w/lunar lights. I do regular 10% weekly water changes and top-off as needed. It's true I am not feeding anything to speak of right now. The only extra nutrients are the very occasional (less than I should I think) addition of 10 ml. DT's for the frogspawn and every few days a few Mysis shrimps (probably 10 or 15) for the shrimp that he practically eats out of my hand so maybe 4 or 5 individual Mysis shrimps get away. <<I doubt also this is your problem. But an observation here...the DT's is of little use to the frogspawn. Being a carnivore it will much prefer the Mysis/diced meaty foods. I would discontinue dosing the DT's...at least till you have need of it (clams/gorgonians)>> So I don't know what to do. I do wonder though, if everything is normal now and for some reason wasn't before would the hair algae that is already there go away on its own or would I have to physically remove it? <<Generally requires a combination of manual removal along with cessation of excess nutrient/food. Maybe just speculation but I've heard it theorized that in large quantities, many nuisance alga can generate/manufacture enough nutrients to sustain themselves...thus where physical removal comes in>> Oh yeah, I have an Aqua-C Remora Skimmer that seems to be working well. <<Indeed...a quality/suitably-sized skimmer for this system>> Also, the calcium does stay high on it's on and I know that's weird too. <<You have little in the tank to utilize it, and with your aggressive water change schedule you likely won't see a fall in levels>> Maybe I should try yet another LFS, like I said, I have many to choose from in this area. <<Is worth doing...>> Thanks, Debi <<Work on clearing up the nuisance algae, then we can revisit the fish issues (this might be as simple as getting your fish from another store). Regards, EricR>> Water Prep...Some Things Are Best Done Yourself IV - 06/24/06
Ok, yes the fish that died all came from the same source, but the goby
came from there also. The blenny came from another
source. The store I got the dead fish from has a very good
reputation and many many people buy both water and fish from there with
no complaints. I think I would know about unhappy people if
there were many because of our local marine aquarium
organization. Surely there would be something on the site if
this store was a problem. <<Even the best stores can
get a shipment of livestock that has been mishandled. Please
understand this Debi, it's not my intention to malign the store(s)
from which you make your purchases. I'm simply providing
feedback/comments/possibilities based on the information you
provide. In the end it's up to you to use your own good
judgment to determine what is wrong and what plan of action to
follow>> No, I personally haven't tried different test kits,
but yes different ones have been used since the LFS stores, neither
one, uses the same test kits and I have stood there personally many
times and watched them test my water with identical results to mine,
unless as you say there could be something we can't test
for. Then how would I know? <<Likely you
wouldn't>> If that was the case wouldn't the other things
have died also? <<Not necessarily...possible differences in
tolerance/sensitivity ...levels of health at time of
exposure...>> If I don't need the DT's can you tell me
how I feed the frogspawn? <<Can easily be "target" fed
when the feeding tentacles are extended>> Will it eat the Mysis
shrimp, whole little ones like the frozen? <<Yes>> Where is
it's mouth? <<Lightly "dust" the animal with the
Mysis shrimp a couple times a week when it expresses its feeding
tentacles...it will do the rest>> I know I sound pretty ignorant
but I've never seen a mouth on it and so have no idea how to feed
it. <<The mouth (or mouths) is not readily visible, but you
don't need to see it to feed this animal. And...your
knowledge of this animal/husbandry (and most all else) is easily
expanded by a Google search re on our site/the net in
general. Start by reading here and among the indices at the
top of the page: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/caryophyllids.htm>> So far as
the storage of the water at my local stores, these are large popular
stores that people use all the time so yes the storage is just as it
should be. Again, the local club would know and not use them
and lots do, very large club covering much area so they shop all around
the city. <<Have you consulted the club on your
problems? Asked about any experiences similar to
yours?>> I got a Sea Hare today, Apsiladae genus or however it is
spelled, <<Genus>> really ugly. <<Interesting
creatures>> Hopefully he will help me with the algae.
<<My fingers are crossed>> So, if you would kindly let me
know on the feeding of the frogspawn I will continue to work on the
algae and leave you alone for a while. <<No bother Debi...this is
what we do>> Thanks so much, Debi <<Cheers my friend,
EricR>> |
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