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More FAQs about ORP, Ozone, Ozonizers 3

Related Articles: Physical FiltrationRe-Dox,

Related FAQs: Ozone 1, Ozone 2RedOx, & FAQs on Ozone: Rationale, System/Selection, Application/Installation, MeasuringMaintenance/Repair, & Marine Test Gear 1, Marine Test Gear 2, Marine Water Quality, Marine Water Quality 2, Marine Water Quality 3,

Ozone sizing (using) question      1/8/15
Hi wwm crew,
I have a 155 bow front tank with a 38 gallon sump. I just had a bad battle with velvet and returned my remaining livestock to a 55 hospital tank. I'm leaving my tank fallow for 8-9 weeks and treating my 55 hospital with copper power. All of my live stock was quarantined for. 8 weeks prior to hitting the display. My question is regarding ozone sizing. A friend offered his ozonizer rated for 55 gallons . Will this provide any benefit whatsoever? Or would it be a waste of time?
<O3 administration can definitely be helpful in aiding in improving water quality, raising RedOx, O2 conc... reducing TBC, other microbial population... This is all gone over, archived on WWM>
I'm going to add either a uv or ozonizer
<The former can/does much of the latter, again; READ on WWM re>
for better water quality prior to my fish being returned to my display.
I'm just looking for sound advice and you guys are the place to get it.
Thank you for all you do!
<Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Re: Ozone sizing question      1/8/15

Thanks for the fast response Bob. I've read quite a bit on www regarding ozone/uv and feel ozone would be more advantageous. My concern is the small unit I have available. It's only rated for a 55 gallon tank. Would that benefit my system at all or should I buy a larger one?
<A little ozone addn. is better than zip; and def. better than too much.
Don't have time, desire to re-key admonitions re... nor advice re measuring RedOx. BobF>
Thanks again,
Re: Ozone sizing question      1/8/15

Thanks for the insight. Happy new year as well
<Ahh; to you as well. B>

Substrate and Ozone Questions 9/30/11
Greetings, Crew.
<Hello Dustin>
I'll keep it short and sweet today.
In setting up my new tank, I'm trying to decide on a good substrate to use. I've been advised against oolitic, as it blows around too much and gets too compacted too easily. However, I do have burrowing livestock (watchman goby, various snails), so I didn't think crushed coral was an option (at least, not at the grades I've seen). I want about a 3" sand bed in the display for aesthetics and my critters, with NNR being taken care of by the mud in my refugium, and other reduction being handled by various equipment/media. Any recommendations? Is it safe/wise to do a layer of crushed coral on top of aragonite?
<I would just use fine aragonite sand. Your burrowing animals will appreciate it.>
Also, I've been reading up on Ozone lately, including a few articles on WWM. My system is only a 40 gallon breeder with a 29 gallon sump, but having a higher ORP seems to be beneficial all around (provided it's not too high). I'm planning on borrowing a meter from my LFS to check out what mine is, and I'm definitely interested in the benefits of Ozone (clarity, smell, overall health of livestock), but it seems marketed mainly to aquarists with substantially larger systems. Is there an alternative method of increasing my ORP without buying an overpowered, expensive unit designed for much larger systems?
<Ozone can be used in smaller systems as most Ozonizers have a variable output control to adjust the amount of ozone being produced. It's best to use a controller with these units to prevent high ORP levels as well as maintain the selected level. There are alternative means to  increase water quality and can be viewed here.
<Ditto. James (Salty Dog)>

Dinoflagellates... Algae issue, env....  06/02/09
Hello Crew!
We need help! We are at wits end with a presumed Dinoflagellate problem in our tank. We have not done a microscopic look, but grossly, the stuff looks
<Can be, often are, deceiving>
identical to pictures of Dinoflagellate and definitely produces gas bubbles.
<Many algae in profusion can, do>
It covers both the sand bed and the liverock. If we vacuum or blow it off, it reappears in a few hours. I have tried to read on Wet Web and have not found a huge amount,
<... take another look...>
so please feel free to refer me if I'm missing something in the archives. The system is about 600 gallons total: 250 gallon display, 50 gallon fuge with Chaetomorpha, 150 gallon sump, and several in line frag tanks. The system has been up for over a year and was an upgrade from a well established tank. The problem started about four months ago. Tank inhabitants: Naso tang, Yellow tang, Rabbitfish, Sargassum triggerfish, and pair of Clarkii clowns. All fish have been in the tank for several years. Corals are all SPS with a few LPS placed far away from each other. Nothing new has been introduced to the tank except for a clam about 5 months ago (and yikes, no quarantine). We have also been fighting an Aiptasia problem that seemed to sneak in on some liverock added about a year ago. We are using Aiptasia X (in case it relates to our big problem).
<Perhaps indirectly... by releasing nutrients from the dissolved anemones>
Tank stats:
250 pounds liverock (2/3 in display, 1/3 elsewhere in system), sand bed of about 3 inches (I know...the dreaded "end between" depth), pH usually runs 8.1,
<This is a clue>
alkalinity usually 2.5,
<Too low as well>
temperature 79, ammonia/nitrate/nitrite 0, silicates/phosphates 0, calcium 350, ORP 240.
<Way too low... And the best clue thus far>
Currently the pH has been raised to 8.4 after reading about this as a possible fix for the dinoflagellates. The alkalinity has been fluctuating up and down from adding Kalk to raise the pH. Lighting is 3 x 250 watt halides (14K spectrum) plus actinics. All bulbs were changed about one month ago to rule that out as a problem. Typically we run a Phosban reactor and a calcium reactor. Both have been stopped during the last month to rule them out as a source of the problem.
<They are not>
The skimmer is a Reeflo orca and produces substantial skimmate. The water return goes through filter
socks. We have tried running carbon, although we are not currently.
Water changes are about 10% every week using RO/DI water. We have other tanks that do not have a problem, so we do not think the RO/DI unit or source water is the issue. The only other difference with the problem tank and our other tanks is that we have a foam (aquarium safe supposedly) sprayed on the back wall that gives the appearance of liverock.
<Also not an/the issue>
I cannot recall the product name as it was done over a year ago before the tank was set up. What has helped the most is keeping the tank in the dark for 3 days (no lights, tank covered to keep ambient light out). The dinoflagellates completely disappeared (well, grossly anyway). However, 2 days back with actinics and ambient room light (still no halides), the dinoflagellates are coming back. Sorry if I have left out any needed information. Any advice or reference referrals would be greatly appreciated!
<For whatever reasons, your RedOx is too low... along with pH, alkalinity... I would re-start your calcium reactor, and for what you have invested here... the size/volume et al., look into/get/use an ozonizer...
For the rationale et al. posted here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/redox.htm
and the linked files above, part. the related article/ppt. Bob Fenner>

Re: Dinoflagellates 06/02/09
Thanks for the reply! As always, the website is great and the service is invaluable. We thought the low ORP was a result of the Dinoflagellate as opposed to a potential cause. I am ordering the Ozotech Poseidon 200 mg/hour now unless you recommend otherwise.
<I would look to something a bit larger production-wise. Please read where you were referred to. RMF>
Our skimmer is not ozone safe, but apparently we can change the seals ($80 kit) and correct that. Thanks again...will let you know how it works.

Re: Dinoflagellates, ozonizer sel.   06/03/09
I must have missed something in the reading.....I truly did read the articles and FAQs you referenced.
<Mmm, well... do take a look again... I would opt for at least a 300 mg/h unit...>
I'm a huge fan of the website and would not have ignored your reading suggestions. I will look through them again for a better recommendation on brand/size of ozonizer.
Thanks as always for the help.
<Oh, and please do seek out the opinions of other earnest aquarists (the hobby bb's are best here) re current likes in the way of brands/manufacturers. Cheers, BobF>

Ozone and Gracilaria   8/21/08 I have a 210 gallon system with a 55 gallon sump. I'm considering purchasing/using a Red Sea ozone generator, one of the ones with a ORP probe and controller all built into it, the ozone would be injected into a EV-240 protein skimmer. <Am familiar> My question being. will this end up killing my Gracilaria through lack of nutrients in the water? <Mmm... a possible effect, yes> I really like the Gracilaria as a nutrient export, plus my three tangs seem to love it. The main reason behind the ozone would be to keep my water crystal clear, provide more oxygen for the water and help keep nutrients down so I can feed heavily. However, that is the main reason behind the Gracilaria also PLUS it feeds my tangs, so if I had to pick one of the other in this instance I'd rather stick with the Gracilaria, although I do know the ozone would be more effective. <Well... I would incrementally turn up the ORP setting... see if this is having a discernible positive effect on water clarity, while not eliminating the Ogo... or grow the Red Algae elsewhere> And last question, do I have to have the skimmer effluent directly pass over carbon or can I just have carbon in my filtration? <The last> Basically, does it have to IMMEDIATELY pass over carbon or just eventually go through carbon? <Ditto> I keep a filter bag full of carbon media in my sump that I change out once a month, but I don't have any real means to pass the skimmer effluent directly onto it, it has to go through the bubble trap first and what not so that it doesn't pass tons of bubbles into the main tank. <Ah, understood> Thanks guys! <Do make it known how this turns out please. Bob Fenner>

RedOx question 5/12/08 Hello <Hello.> I have a 55 g marine tank with 50 lbs live rock, Clowns, Chromis and a Batfish. <The Batfish will need a larger home.> I'm using a needle wheel, dual pump skimmer with ozone, and a 300 gph canister filter. The canister filter is new, and since a few hours after install my orp went into the upper 400's. <Way too high. 350-390 being optimal.> I'm concerned about the tank being too clean, is this something I should worry about? <Not too clean, but the danger to your fish from this ORP, if it is this high, I suspect not.> My ozone is no longer turning on, and skimmer is taking nothing out. If you can advise, thanks so much! <Three potential problems come to mind. First, if the canister's pump has a low insulation resistance it may be leaking current into the water, giving you a false reading for your ORP. Try unplugging the canister and give it a few hours to see what your ORP is then. The second possibility is your probe on the ORP meter. You will want to calibrate/replace the probe as per the manufacture's recommendations. The third possibility is that the ozone unit is stuck on, constantly running while telling you it is not. I don't think this is likely, if your ORP was really in the upper 400's you will be seeing the effects in your livestock. Also, this won't be an issue with an appropriately sized unit. Welcome, good luck, Scott V.> Re: RedOx question 5/13/08 Yeah, the Batfish grew faster than I was told. <Heee, reason for a bigger tank!> The controller and probe have been cleaned and calibrated, I unplugged the ozone and canister, but the ORP hasn't dropped. <It will drop, your level will not sustain unless there is something artificially raising the ORP such as ozone or even a U.V. sterilizer (U.V. can contribute here). > Fish seem happy, corals are dying. <Not good.> Any ideas? <The old failsafe, water changes to get back to a good baseline.> When I feed it goes down but bounces back again.....thanks!! <Hmmm, something is not adding up. Everything does point to faulty readings. When you installed the canister did you rearrange other electrical equip? The proximity of can change the readings on your meter. Do use the meter to take readings in other areas/the main tank away from other electrical equipment. Possibly even shut everything else off for a moment to see if this changes your reading. Welcome, do let us know what you find, Scott V.>

Large ORP Drop 4/28/08 Hello, <Hi Bryan> I experienced a major ORP drop while I was away on vacation on my 400g tank/sump. Typically my ORP stays right around 400 +/- 10-20. It started dropping to around 350 and then dropped to 150 almost instantly. Since then it has been slowly moving back up, it is now at 214 after a 50g water change I performed today. Upon my return I inspected the ORP probe and found no debris and the probe looked physically OK. Parameters look great, ammonia: 0ppm, nitrates: 0ppm, nitrites: 0ppm, calcium >400, dKH 11. I perform water changes of about 50 gallons twice a week. See graph of ORP: http://fuse44.fusemail.net/aqua/index.html?prevtype=&view=467 What's your guess, faulty ORP probe or a real result? and if real, why such a dramatic shift so quick? <An undiscovered dead animal could cause this <<No... not this sudden drop... Too much in the period... see the graphs... the data is collected every minute. RMF>>  along with an additive you may have put into the tank, but I'm thinking probe. Best to get a packet of 400mv calibration fluid and check the probe. You may be interested in reading here along with the linked files above. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/redox.htm James (Salty Dog)> Best Bryan

Red Sea Ozonizers 8/31/07 Hello everyone, just an experience I'd like to share with you. Last year, I bought a Red Sea Aquazone Plus ozonizer (new), a $300.00+ item. I have been in the hobby for 40+ years. A month after the one year warranty expired, it died. I called RS, expecting at least some accommodation. No dice. OK, I wouldn't do business that way, but I know it happens. So next I ask where to ship it so they can repair it. Now the surprise: Red Sea has no repair facilities. Your solution is to just buy a new one. I have since come to find out that this particular item is typically very short lived - apparently very sensitive to humidity, no matter how assiduously you change the air drier. <Steve, I have contacted Pinky at Red Sea, below is his response. I seems they are willing to give you a price break on replacing this. James (Salty Dog)> FYI. Steve. Good morning. The unit can last a very long time but if it doesn't, it depends on a lot of things like if he used an air dryer and baked the beads as soon as they needed where he had the unit mounted if he did the maintenance on it every 6 months. I can go on and on. It's like a car it depends on a lot of things why one car last longer then another one and bought at the same time. The reason we don't have a repair shop is we don't get that many units to repair to have a shop open. We can work with the customers on selling them another at a better price if the unit does fail at a year 1/2 with no more warranty Again it just depends on how the unit was taking care of. It's not our place to replace products that people don't take care of. I am not saying this customer was one that didn't take care of it just saying it has a lot to do with how, where and why things were done or not done with the unit. I hope I have explained and answered your question. Thank you and have a good day. Pinky

Re: Red Sea Ozonizers 9/1/07 Hello James, and thank you for your help. I just want to make it clear that this unit was treated with the utmost care, because I'd already heard it was not tolerant of humidity. In fact, a friend had two units replaced, under warranty; the third is now 13 months old. And in response to my postings elsewhere, I heard from numerous people with the same problem. Pinky gave me the same explanation, and I offered to let them inspect my unit, which was located away from the display and today looks the same as the day I got it, but Red Sea wasn't interested. I was fanatical about changing the dryer beads, even had an extra dryer so I could rotate them; a very few times, the beads changed color overnight, and it was on one of these days the thing quit; if that's abuse, I'm guilty. My feeling, though, is that this is a problem product and Red Sea knows it. <I would do a poll on this on our chat forum and see what input you get from others. Go here: http://wetwebfotos.com/talk/ <James (Salty Dog.> Steve Re: was... Micro Bubbles, now... new ozone reactor reaction to cycling   7/10/07 Hi! <Howzit?> Ok, I think I found the leak. The side in question gets a little wet if the pipe is bumped. It is coming from the bulkhead somewhere. Also, when the pipe is bumped the bubbles increase in spurts. <Oops! Ah ha!> So I have a new bulkhead on the way to take care of that. If you don't mind, I have another problem. My tank is about 6 months old and water was staying pretty good (ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates under 5ppm) Ph is a consistent 8, alk 8 dKH and calcium at 380 to 400. I added a sander ozonizer about 2 weeks ago. <Good units> I have a 100mg unit hooked to an ORP controller. ORP has never gone above 350. Now I am getting ammonia 0, nitrites at .75ppm and nitrate at 20ppm. <Mmm, likely the microbes that do that voodoo that they do so well with nitrogenous cycling are taking a hit from the higher O3 effects...> I have a 125 gallon tank, a 50 gallon refugium and a 25 gallon sump. AquaC EV120 skimmer, 2 GENX PCX70 pumps. Korallin C1502 calcium reactor. 120 pounds of live rock, 4 to 5 inches of sugar sized aragonite in refugium and tank. Stock is 1 Naso tang 5 inches, 2 1 inch ocellaris clowns, 4 Chromis (1 inch or less) 1 lawnmower blenny 4 inches, 1 Kole tang 4 inches, 1 coral beauty angel 3 inches. Would the addition of the ozonizer make it go through another cycle? <Mmm, yes, could...> Is there anything you would recommend doing? <Being careful re feeding till all re-settles> Thank you very much for your time, David Matza <Welcome. Bob Fenner>

ORP Fluctuations/Aiptasia Infestation Controls - 06/04/07 Hi Crew! <<Hiya Roger!>> 180g main tank w/55gal sump/refugium, ASM 300 skimmer, 170 lbs LR, 4" sand bed in main tank. Softies and LPS w/2 small frags of Acropora and Pocillopora. 4 Yellowtail Blue Damsels, 1 large Siganus vulpinus, 1 Ctenochaetus strigosus, 1 Gramma loreto, 1 Pink Spotted Shrimp Goby, 2 Engineer Gobies, 2 Black Axel Chromis. 1 Midas Blenny. 1 Large Lysmata amboinensis. Astrea Snails and various hermits, also 2, 2" Fighting Conchs. 6 80w T5's. I use Salifert for my water testing to confirm any test for which I don't trust the results. <<Very good>> Hagen, Aquarium Pharmaceuticals & Red Sea, are my routine test kits. <<Mmm...I hope you are using the Salifert kits regularly>> Calcium 450, KH 9-10, NO2 "0", NO3 "0" pH 8.3, and Temp 80 F. I have an ORP monitor that reads 425 - 450 overnight. <<You are administering ozone then? Be careful this reading doesn't go higher>> When I add food soaked with Selcon the ORP drops rapidly into the high 300's. <<Not at all unusual...>> I have checked the ORP probe with calibration fluid and it goes perfectly to 400. <<Nothing wrong with the probe here...the drop is related/a reaction to the addition of organic material (food, Selcon) to the water column...and a good example of how the REDOX meter can be used to monitor water quality>> My FO tank also has an ORP monitor and I have switched them, with the same result. Is this dangerous to my creatures? <<Not in my experience...as indicated, ORP levels fluctuate continuously in relation to water chemistry...and to be honest, readings in the 'high 300s' are still very good/quite acceptable>> Visually, everyone is doing well and actually growing! I feed ZoPlan, Marine Snow, Phytoplan, enriched live brine shrimp, and Omega One flake soaked in Selcon or Kent Marine Zoe, alternatively. <<Do be cautious of overuse of the invertebrate foods...and for your fishes sake expand their diet a bit with some vegetable matter for the Tang and the Foxface, and I highly recommend the addition of New Life Spectrum pellets for all>> I have your book, Bob! <<Is an excellent read>> Second question. I also have an Aiptasia problem. <<A very common malady>> I feel my water quality is good and my tank is 10 mos. old. <<Good water - bad water...has little to do with the Aiptasia...these organisms don't even need light. The problems encountered with Aiptasia stem from their mere introduction to the system...and an adequate food source (reflect on my previous comment re the invertebrate foods)>> Many pods, etc. seen on a regular basis. I know there are no absolutes, but do you think a Copperband would be worth a try? <<This is a possibility, though they seem to prefer young/emergent Aiptasia as opposed to lager specimens, in my experience>> If not, what would you suggest? <<You can try the Copperband as a biological 'control,' even a few Atlantic Peppermint Shrimp...but these only address the 'symptoms' of the infestation and not the cure. Sometimes this proves to be enough...ofttimes not...>> Have tried Joe's Juice w/the same results as most of your correspondents? It kills, but babies pop up in bigger numbers. <<I have never used this product, but I have used Lemon Juice injected in to the oral disc with good result>> I very much appreciated your advice on a previous question about angels & you prevented me from making a big mistake; from a responsibility to the environment standpoint and from a responsible aquarist standpoint. <<Don't know who that was, but it is good to hear they were able to help>> Any guidance will be most appreciated. It seems as if Copperbands get good reviews in your threads, if they fit a system. <<Ah yes, your last statement is 'key.' These are not 'easy' fish to acclimate/keep...very susceptible to disease/poor water quality, and often difficult to get to eat. If you try this fish, be sure to get one that is feeding on something other than brine shrimp...frozen Mysids/Mysis preferably>> Thanks again! <<Happy to assist>> Roger Tisdale from the backwoods of South Carolina! <<Backwoods, forewoods, sidewoods...heck Roger, it's 'all woods' around this state! [grin] Eric Russell in Columbia, SC>>

Oxidation of Bromide in SW... via high ORP?   4/11/07 Mr. Fenner,    <Emmanuel>   I work with coral reef fishes. May I ask your opinion about one specific issue?    <Certainly>   I have had trouble with our ozonizer. Despite keeping the ORP within a moderate range (280-320 mV), some of the mortality I have observed could be related to oxidation of bromide to bromine species (HOBr, OBr-). Do you have any experience and/or would you know any reliable source of information on that subject?    <Interesting speculation... I thought about this last night for a bit... How might one test for this conversion to toxic halogen? Or, "look up" such information from extant studies? Perhaps an inquiry to a college chemistry dept., professor. I don't think this is a practical possibility at this range of RedOx however.>   Thank you for your collaboration.      Regards,      Emmanuel <Bob Fenner> Ozone parasite carbon   3/21/07 Hi crew, <Mohamed> Is there a ratio as to how much carbon is required when using ozone or can the same assumption be used 1L carbon per 1000L aquarium water? <Mmm, good question... requires more "knowing" or additional input to make use of a response... That is, other factors, like "bio-load", foods/feeding, the use of other gear (principally skimming...) will/could greatly skew any effect of whatever quality carbon with actual ozone input...> Does one require separate carbon for the tank and the output of the skimmer using ozone or can the carbon for zone usage be sufficient for the entry tank? <I'd say this latter> Will the use of ozone kill off all parasite that eat/kill SPS? <Decidedly not... though it will aid in the prevention of infectious pathogens (bacteria, fungi et al.) indirectly, by improving water quality mostly> Must the effluent from the skimmer pass thru carbon? <No. Though some folks like this arrangement to remove excess O3 that may be liberated, and (IMO) "stink"... there is generally very little of such excess ozone> Thanks     Mohamed <Bob Fenner>

Re: Was: Continued growth of a brownish colored algae on sand surface... now ORP wherefore   - 12/04/06 Thank you I'll give this a try. I don't understand lowering the ORP as I've always thought the higher the better. What controls this? <...Mmmm, life... and the physical/chemical make-up of a given system... dynamics twixt and in-between... Read here: http://www.google.com/custom?domains=www.WetWebMedia.com&q=ORP&sitesearch=www.WetWebMedia.com&client=pub-4522959445250520&forid=1&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3A99C9FF%3BLBGC%3A336699%3BALC%3A0000FF%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BFORID%3A1%3B&hl=en RMF>

Faulty ORP Readings/Copperband for Aiptasia Control - 10/31/06 Hello, and thank you for all the information you provide. <<Howdy, and you're quite welcome...is a synergetic effort>> I have a 125 gallon saltwater reef tank and I am trying to get the Aiptasia under control as well as increase the quality of life for the species I already have.  From my research, I felt that I would try the peppermint shrimp as a way to get the Aiptasia under control and also look at why I have them. <<Mmm...peppermint shrimp are less than reliable controls for Aiptasia anemones, and best utilized 'en masse' re which then leaves you with the problem of what to do with all the shrimp once they've completed their intended purpose...not to mention the expense of obtaining several dozen peppermint shrimp>> I read that the 6-line wrasse could eat them so I moved the wrasse to a fish only tank where he is doing fine.  The next day all 3 peppermint shrimp were gone. <<Hmm...though I doubt three shrimp would have had much impact...at least not for a very long while (assuming they would eat the anemones to begin with)>> I watched my sailfin tang and it did not seem interested in them.  I only have fire fish, clowns, and an algae eating goby type fish. <<Mmm...how large is this 'goby?'>> With this trail ending in failure, I would like to try a copperband butterfly. <<Not easily kept...and also no guarantee it will take to the Aiptasia any better than peppermint shrimp>> I read that they are difficult to keep. <<Ah yes>> I want to make sure that my tank conditions are up to standard before I purchase one.  I use the Aquacontroller Pro to monitor the conductivity, pH, ORP, and temp.  The temperature ranges from 74-78 degrees.  The pH is at 8.28 but does fluctuate from 7.99 to 8.28 within a 24 hour period.  The ORP is the strange reading because I show 572 through 678 in a 24 hour period. <<I think this is likely not an accurate reading.  ORP readings this high would certainly have a deleterious affect on your system>> I test for nitrite, nitrate, and ammonia and they always test at or 0 or very close to the lowest scale on the chart. <<Ammonia/nitrite should 'always' be 'zero'.  Do make sure you have fresh/reliable test kits>> I took a water sample to the fish store and he confirmed my readings.  He also tested for phosphate and said it was minimal. <<Whatever his definition of 'minimal' is...>> The alkalinity was acceptable but the calcium was low.  I tested the ORP in my filtered tap water through the Kold-Ster-il unit and the ORP showed 100.  I tested the ORP of the tap water with the salt in a bucket and when agitated with the power head would reach up to 180.  I tested the ORP in my fish only tank and it reads 174.  I do not use ozone at all.  I add the alkalinity supplement every other day and then the calcium supplement on the opposite days of the alkalinity supplement.  I contacted Neptune systems and he said the probe and controller are probably correct and working as they should. <<I disagree...an ORP reading of 678 in your reef tank would definitely be mal-affecting your livestock.  Anything over about 450 starts to become dangerous to your tank inhabitants.  You need to obtain a calibration solution and check the probe's accuracy yourself>> I use a sump with an AquaC 180 protein skimmer and this works well. <<A good skimmer line>> I tested the returns and the water flow is 600 gallons per hour.  I do get some green algae growth in the tank but only enough to clean off of the front glass every few days.  What could cause the ORP to be so elevated without adding ozone? <<Ozone injection is not the only way to raise ORP (increased water flow or adding 'oxidizers' such as iodine can raise ORP levels), but I think in this instance the culprit is a faulty ORP meter/probe>> Do you think the water quality is acceptable for a copperband butterfly with the ORP reading so high? <<I don't think the ORP is an issue, as I don't think the reading is accurate/that there is any hazard if you are not injecting ozone in this system.  But being successful with the Copperband involves more than good water quality.  You need to have adequate live rock in a 'mature' system (preferably augmented with a vegetable refugium) to provide grazing/browsing opportunities for the butterfly.  You also need to find a healthy specimen that is feeding on frozen foods as getting them to eat is a common problem. Once you have an 'eating' fish, pay attention that it gets its share. These fish are designed for/adapted to browsing the reef for food and don't compete well with most other fishes when the hobbyist dumps in a meal...they even have trouble seeing/finding foods that are swept along in the current.  Most will eventually learn that they need to 'be on the ball' at feeding time, but they will still have problems with the quicker and more agile fishes beating them to the food>> Before purchasing a copperband, like my other fish, I will find one that has been in the store for at least 2 weeks and that is feeding. <<It will behoove you to set up a quarantine tank for this (all) fish to ensure that it is still feeding (without competition) once you bring it home.  I have witnessed on more than one occasion where this fish stopped feeding after the stress of capture/relocation from the LFS>> Thank you everyone for the time you dedicate to helping me as well as many others. Darrell <<Is our pleasure to assist.  EricR>>

Applying Ozone...Venturi or Not? - 10/01/06 Dear Crew, <<Hello Rafiq>> Thanks for a great service, I would probably be poorer and animal heaven more crowded without it! <<Indeed my friend...is our hope/purpose to enlighten/educate...and thusly prevent needless misery/save lives...>> I recently purchased a 500mg/hr ozonizer and ORP controller, <<Big unit>> I was planning to add the ozone to a PVC, DIY recirculating, venturi type skimmer by drilling a small hole at the top body of the skimmer and dropping in an airstone or limewood (is that what those 'woodstones' are called?) into the skimmer reaction chamber. <<Limewood supposedly makes the "best" wooden airstones...Basswood does a good job as well in my opinion, and is more readily available (in my experience) if you want to make your own stones>> Is this a correct/reliable method of applying ozone to my aquarium? <<Yes...I prefer to apply ozone through a skimmer.  But you would do well to merely attach the ozonizer to the venturi and let it "draw" the ozone from the unit>> I have considered attaching the ozonizer directly to the venturi but I get the idea that the venturi draws air at a rate far higher than the ozonizer can generate.  Is this a valid concern? <<Not in my opinion.  The venturi will draw the available ozone as it is generated...how fast it generates opposed to how much air the venturi draws need not be a concern>> Will both methods work? <<Probably>> Is one better than the other? <<I prefer the "venturi" method>> Kind Regards, Rafiq van Greuning JHB, ZA <<Cheers my friend.  Eric Russell...SC, USA>>

High ORP Levels  - 09/07/06 Hi Guys, <Hello Scott> I'm worried about my high ORP levels.  Here is a breakdown of my multi-tank system: 375 liter main tank, 220l frag tank, 300l refugium w/ DSB & Chaeto (reverse daylight photoperiod) & 90l sump.  Lighting consists of 150W 10,000K DE MH's and T5's.  Circulation is moderate to strong provided by SEIO & Tunze Stream Pumps.  Other equipment consists of a Skimmer (AquaC EV-240), Calcium Reactor, Kalkwasser Reactor & Chiller.  Livestock are mainly SPS's & Clams with some fish.  The tank has been running for only 10 months but was an upgrade form a smaller system.  Here are my tank parameters:             pH        -           8.23 to 8.33             Temp    -           26-27 Deg C             Alk       -           9dKH             Ca        -           380 The tank's inhabitants are doing well.  I've recently been dosing ozone with a 300mg/h ozone generator hooked up to an air dryer & controller.  The ozone is pumped through my skimmer in the sump.  I continuously run 800ml carbon split into 4 mesh bags running along the whole length of my first sump baffle which is just after my skimmer compartment.  I normally change 1/4 of the carbon every week when I do my weekly 60 liter water changes. When I first got my equipment to dose ozone I wanted to target a level of about 375 to start off with and then take things from there.  I monitored my ozone for over a month before trying to dose and found that at times my levels would peak at 375.  So I figured that with my levels being what they were I should rather target around 425.  I rigged up the ozone and adjusted the controller to switch off the ozone generator at 430.  My ORP levels did hit the 430 mark about 3 weeks ago.  Just to be safe I unplugged the ozone generator.  The problem is that since then my ORP levels have been rising steadily.  This morning I found my ozone peaked at 456 before lights on. The only time I find my ORP levels drop, other than the usual slight drop during the day, is when I do a water change but it comes back to it's original levels and then some in just over 2 days. I'm starting to get pretty worried.  I hope you guys can point me in the right direction. <Scott, I think the first thing I would do is clean the probe, then check the ORP.  If still high, try recalibrating the unit.  Be sure the probe is not placed near air bubbles and powerheads.  The inductive field near powerheads may affect the reading.  James (Salty Dog)> Thanks <You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)> Scott Cukes (comp.) and ORP  9/6/06 Bob, <Scott> The ORP in my 1300g tank is now hitting 500 at its peak in the night. <Mmm... too high...> All fish, corals and other inverts seem unaffected, if not ridiculously healthy.  Should I be concerned or tanking any sort of action to lower it?  I'm not running ozone. <... odd... I'd "check your checker" here first... Likely this is off> Also I was wondering if in your opinion (or experience) an Australian Sea Apple would be capable of catastrophically polluting that volume of water if it died.  Thanks! <Oh yes... Have seen these take out entire stores (thousands of gallons) on collectively plumbed holding systems. Bob Fenner> Scott

Ozone Usage/Amounts...Iodine Supplementation - 08/30/06 Dear Bob, <<EricR here>> I have a 180g FOWLR.  1 large Emp angel, 1 large majestic, 1 Foxface, 1 Heniochus butterfly, 4 skunk cleaner shrimp. 2 perculas, 1 macaroon, 1 blue damsel, 1 goby, hermits and snails.  The system has been up for 1 year and doing fabulous.  I have 2 wet-dries and use bioballs for media.  2 sump located skimmers AquaC EV-180 and Euroreef RS 130, <<Good skimmers...some authors recommend using multiple skimmers of differing design to optimize the efficiencies re>> One UV 55-watt Aqua UV.  10% water change weekly.  I have started using ozone injected thru the JG fitting of the AquaC and the results are visible: crystal clear water. <<Indeed!  I find ozone to be more efficient than carbon is this respect>> I note that AquaC recommends 50-100 mg/hr of ozone but not more since skimmate production deceases with higher amounts. <<Mmm, yes...and I have read some debate on whether this is desirable or not.  Some speculate breaking down the organic molecules with ozone makes the skimmer less efficient...some speculate breaking down the molecules make the organics more readily available to assimilation by the corals...some say "what the heck", the skimmer is still as "efficient" as it ever was (just has less to skim), the corals "may" be finding more food (just be aware nuisance alga too will have more fuel), so if nothing is being malaffected what is the concern?  I tend to fall in to the latter category I have a Red Sea 200mg/hr ozonizer with integrated controller.  Tank ORP is 315-320mV during the day and rises to 340mV just before the lights go on in the AM. <<Sounds about "ideal" to me>> I have been using 175 mg/hr of ozone in this tank.  At this level the amount of skimmate has gone down from both skimmers. <<I have experienced this phenomenon as well>> The ECV-180 has 275 gal/hr flow rate and the Euroreef system has 180 gal/hr rate. Would you recommend that I go to AquaC's recommended 50 mg/hr? <<Based on your ORP readings and the fact you don't mention any deleterious happenings re, no, I would not drop the production rate that low>> Is it absolutely necessary that the skimmer effluent be carbon filtered? <<No...the amount/concentration of ozone produced by these hobbyists units is easily burned-up in/blown-off by the skimmer>> Would using higher doses of ozone oxidize Iodine or other elements to the point of detriment where HLLE may be a concern? <<Addition of Iodine with water changes is recommended...else test/dose as needed>> Thanks, Have a nice day. <<Same to you my friend>> Jimmy <<Regards, EricR>>

Big Tank, Water Quality/LR, Ozone, Curing LR    8/13/06 I am curing around 1500 lbs of rock in about 1200 gallons of water. <Mmm, a note for browsers... such large amounts of LR can be cured "in place" in large systems, but I encourage this elsewhere... much easier to manipulate, much less messy/stinky> There's about 40,000 gph of water movement. I've got two AquaC skimmers rated for up to 1000 gallons cranking overtime (with ozone on when the ORP drops below 390 and off at 400). <Rather a "tight" setting... I'd move the lower value down to the 350 or so range>   I scrubbed it all pretty good before I put it in, but have only done minor incidental water changes (leaky plumbing and VERY aggressive skimming). Its been almost two weeks since I first introduced the rock. Nitrites are around 4.0 ppm, <Too high> nitrates are around 20 ppm <Way too high... these values spell the doom for too much of the "live" portion of your rock. Should be kept down...> (both have seen a huge decline in the past few days. The pH has been staying high - ranging from 8.1 - 8.6. <This is the ozone, not biomineral effect> My real query is about my ORP. Until this tank I've never had the equipment to monitor or regulate my ORP before. Its currently at 419 and still on the rise from what I can tell. <... too high...> Honestly I don't think I fully understand the concept from reading the article on the site, but from various Q and A's on the site I gather that this is not that big of a deal as long as its not ozone that's raising it that high (which it's not in this case - at least not from the ozonizers). <... Really? What is "it" from? Have you tried turning off the ozonation?> My water is still quite yellow however, despite running carbon and PolyFilters and ozone off and on. <Massive die-off effect> Due to the location of the tank it would ideal if we could expedite the un-yellowing of the tank. Thanks for your help, Scott Sent via Blackberry from T-Mobile  Â²[% <Neat... Well... to start with, though it may seem expensive, I would make a very large water change here... perhaps half... Next, I would carefully (like two separate test kits) measure alkalinity/acidity, and look into the means (there are a few... and this can be confusing for sure) of bolstering the same... with a source of carbonates and bicarbonates. I would look into your calcium, magnesium concentrations as well... these are likely out of whack, and relying on the water changes alone will too-likely drive you bonkers as well as to the poor house... When you have occasion/time, do take a read over WWM re the concepts of alkalinity, this and pH... the use of supplements for same. Bob Fenner> Ozone and Ocean Clear Carbon Reef Tank, carbon...    8/13/06 We have a 250 gallon reef and are planning to use a small amount of ozone - 25-50mg through a reactor at a 300 gph flow rate.  I was paranoid about any ozone getting in the tank (especially with bulkheads in the bottom of the tank), so I purchased a used Ocean Clear Carbon canister filter to pass the water through before returning to the tank.  Now I'm not sure if it was the right thing to do (haven't installed yet).  It holds 7 lbs of carbon. <Yeeikes! An unnecessary expense I assure you>   Will a canister be okay to use in this case even though it is a reef tank (tank is a DSB Acro tank with zero nitrates)? <Would be fine, just not needed> If so, is 7 lbs of carbon okay or too much? <Depends on quality mostly... I would not start with this much material... perhaps a pound or two>   How long can we go between carbon changes - I'm assuming if it is okay to use it would become a bio filter after a few weeks? <Mmm, yes... and progressively more so over time... I'd switch out a pound or so per month (best to use a pre-bagged product... like Chemipure, or get Dacron "purse string" bags and make your own...>   If it is not okay to use, what is the difference between the canister carbon filters and carbon reactors?   Thanks!   Doug <Can be little or great difference in cost, capacity, absorbency... See WWM: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/carbonfaqs.htm and the linked files above. I myself would not worry re the ozone here... this amount will "be gone/disappear" in reaction almost immediately. Bob Fenner> Ozone Generator Overkill? - 06/06/06 Hi WWM crew, <<Howdy Steve!>> After looking at WWM and reading Bob Fenner's book, I have bought a Pinpoint ORP controller and an ozone generator. <<Cool!>> I will install them in the next day.  After, reading at some of the FAQ, I started to be afraid that I may have bought a generator that is too big for my tank. <<Not a concern if used in conjunction with the controller>> The generator is a 200mg/hr and my tank is a 65 gal with a 25 gal sump. <<Mmm yes, the generator is likely larger than you need...but will be fine used with the controller>> I plan to use it with my Bullet-1 from Precision Marine. <<Good product, quality materials...should work fine>> Is my generator too big for my tank? <<You could have gotten by with one half the size...probably>> Will it be dangerous for me or my tank? <<No, not if used with the controller>> If so, would it be ok if I would only put it on few hours a day? <<Not necessary...the controller will turn off the generator at a certain set-point (350mv is a good starting point)>> Just another question!! <<Okay>> Every how much time should I change the carbon at the exit of the skimmer and how much should I use? <<Mmm, small concern here (I don't use any for this purpose myself), but If you prefer, a cup or so replaced bi-weekly should suffice>> Thank you very much for your help!! <<Quite welcome>> P.S. I would not have a marine set-up If not for this website and the books written by Calfo or Fenner!! Steve <<Much good/helpful information indeed!  Regards, EricR>>

Use Ozonizer Without a Controller?...Not Recommended - 06/04/06 Hi, <<Howdy!>> Thank you very much for your article on ozonizers.  It has helped me understand the reason for using them + why we have to be very careful in the process. <<We're happy you found it useful>> With all this extra input, I still have concerns re the use of my ozonizer in a 240ltr tank. <<Hmm...let's find out why...>> The ozonizer I have is the Hailea 810 on which you can't control the output? <<For clarification (and for our readers on this side of the "pond") we're talking about a 200mg/h ozone generator on an approximately 63 gallon (US) tank>> I was hoping to have this on a timer + split the cycles into two or four cycles per day, but wondered if this is a viable option. <<I wouldn't try this, 200mg/h "should" be more than a tank this size needs/can safely utilize.  This ozonizer can be used...but I wouldn't do it without a controller to prevent overdosing the tank>> I would prefer not to start spending more money on an ORP reader when it might just be easier to obtain a different ozonizer?. <<Mmm, is about the same isn't it?...still money spent!>> At the moment my set up is new [just two days old] and obviously I want to have the ozonizer system clear in my head as well as the tank before introducing any fish.  I hope you can help me in this matter <<Looks to me like you're gonna have to spend money either way...to buy a controller for the ozonizer you currently have...or to buy another ozonizer with an "integrated" controller.  The choice is yours to make but I would pick the first option, preferring to have separate components>> Many thanks in advance Sheldon <<Welcome, EricR>>

Aqua C and ozone  5/29/06 Good day, <Mark> First, I would like to thank all of you for your wonderful support you give to people like me. Your answers have helped me out tremendously. I will try to keep this simple (I hope). I have a 75 gallon reef with a tidepool 2 sump, a refugium, Eheim pro and both the rainbow mechanical and chemical filter. I had added the Aqua C remora pro per the countless recommendations from other hobbyists. I would like to add an ozonizer to my system, however upon e-mailing Jason and his group the protein skimmer is not set-up for ozone systems. Do you know a way to "rig this" safely? I really do not want to give this skimmer up. Thanks, and sorry this was long. Mark < http://www.google.com/custom?q=Aqua+C+and+ozone&sitesearch=wetwebmedia.com The above from putting your subject/title in Google... Bob Fenner>

Huge ICH problem - control by Ozone? Mmm, nope  - 05/13/2006 Hi guys, <And some XX's...> This is the first time I have emailed you guys, as have spent ages reading the great amount of information on your site. What's stopped me? <Don't know> Well, I realize that you're busy, but this I couldn't keep to myself - it's distressing my fish (and killing them) and upsetting me, even the cat seems saddened by our misfortune. <Yes> I have a 240 litre reef with 40kg of live rock, MCE600, rowfos fluidizer, Eheim wet and dry, a UV filter and will soon be adding Ozone, monitored to the MCE600. The stock in the tank is as follows: 6 common clowns. 1 baby tang and a larger one. 4 shrimp (cleaner). Bristle star fish (I think that's what it's called!) Red Star fish. Snails and hermits. Recently I added a powder blue <Tang? This system is too small for an Acanthurus leucosternon> and didn't notice till I got back from a business trip, that it had Ich. <Yikes... no quarantine?> By the time I could get some treatment the next day it had died. Ich has now spread throughout the tank and we've lost 3 clowns already. I have tried one of the shelf treatment ' ESHA Oodinex  ' but the Ich is still there, but not as prevalent. <... your system is infested> I realize that my UV setup is working as well as it could and will soon have more flow running from the Eheim back to the tank, as previously it was working on a separate pump that works the Rowa-phos fluidizer. Will adding Ozone to the skimmer help in stopping Ich? <Nope> I appreciate your help. Many thanks in advance. Stu <Uhh... not so fast... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/ichart2mar.htm and the linked files above... formulate a plan... and act... quickly... to eliminate this parasite from your system. Bob Fenner> Ozone/Skimmate Reduction - 05/02/06 Hey guys (and gals, I remembered this time!) <<Yea!>> I recently started running ozone through my Deltec MCE 600 skimmer, and I'm using it to keep RedOx around 350mV (the difference it's made to the tank is huge, it's great).  The problem is that my MCE 600 is now hardly producing any skimmate at all, it produces a little for the first hour or so after cleaning the cup but after that there's nothing. <<Hmm...>> I'm also putting a bit much ozone through the skimmer for its design limit, I reckon about 40-50mg/h. <<Doesn't seem excessive to me>> This has led me to think about getting a bigger skimmer. <<Is an option>> My tank is roughly 180 US gallons and contains the following: 260 lbs of live rock 1 Powder blue tang 1 Naso tang (they get along quite well, feed from the same clip etc..) 1 Klein's butterflyfish 1 Bicolour angel 2 Maroon clowns 1 False percula clown 1 Bicolour blenny 1 convict worm goby Will upgrading to a bigger skimmer help the issue? <<Possibly, yes...or "retuning" your current skimmer (if you haven't tried already)>> I'm used to seeing lots of skimmate and it worries me when I see none! <<A reduction is not uncommon, but you should still be collecting skimmate>> I've made sure the air intakes to the skimmer aren't restricted in any way. <<An air dryer will cause a restriction...or using tubing smaller in diameter than what was supplied with the skimmer pump>> My RedOx was LOW before I added the ozone, around 170mV.  All other levels are immeasurable, besides nitrate which has been dropping since the addition of ozone (was ~20ppm). <<Excellent...burning up the nitrogenous waste>> The skimmers I'm considering (I have limited height under my tank) are the Deltec APF 600 that apparently uses 600 litres of air an hour, and the Tunze DOC 9020, which uses 1300 litres of air an hour, which, in your opinion, would be best suited to my tank? <<Both manufacturers enjoy excellent reputations.  The Deltec is probably the closest "fit" between the two>> I only keep soft corals at the moment, but want to start keeping hard corals too. <<Don't discount the need for a skimmer with "soft" corals...most release very noxious elements in to the water>> Oh, and the ozone seems to build up in my room and causes the odd headache, will running the air from the skimmer through activated carbon help that? <<Mmm, surprising the small amount you say you're using would cause this...but yes, carbon will help with residual ozone...you can also place it in the path of the water exiting the skimmer.>> Thanks again, Ross <<Quite welcome, EricR>>

Sharing a Perspective - re Ozone, skimmer op.  05/04/06 Hi Eric, <<Hello Andy>> I read your reply to Ross, about ozone use, on 2nd May.  I had a similar sized tank, was running ozone and upgraded from the Deltec MCE600 to the APF600, and feel I may be able to add to the good advice you offered Ross. <<Ahh, excellent!>> I hope you don't mind. <<Not at all...will post for all to see/share...and hope you don't mind in kind if I throw in a comment where I get the urge...>> The use of Ozone is highly beneficial, but often delivered at too high a rate.  When ozone is first introduced to a tank it may take a few days or weeks to break down the waste products that have accumulated in the tank environment. <<Mmm, in their entirety maybe (though new "waste" is being generated all the time), but ozone is highly reactive/its effect is immediate...as I'm sure you are aware>> However, once that initial spring clean is complete the rate of ozone should be reduced - especially if the owner has a strong maintenance schedule (water changes, not over stocked, not over-feeding, etc, etc).  The lack of skimmate (and nitrate) is an indicator that the ozone is being over-applied (organics being burned up long before they can get to the skimmer cup).  I would recommend reducing the ozone rate to 10mg/h, allowing the water to get a slight yellow colour once again (best to assess this at water change time); at each water change assess the tank water colour - if yellow: increase the ozone rate by 5mg/h, if blue: (associated with a tank aerated with ozone) you have reached a nice compromise between getting the benefits of the ozone, while minimizing the unwanted effects (smell and risk of overdose). <<With most units available to hobbyists here in the states, overdose is of small concern on all but the smallest of tanks>> I suspect Ross may only need to deliver ozone at half the current rate. <<Is a possibility...though I don't consider 40-50 mg/h to be "excessive" on a 180 gallon tank...>> In terms of the MCE600 to APF600 upgrade, it is an improvement but only a small one.  I got perhaps a 20% increase in skimmate from one to the other.  For me, the major benefits included a much bigger collect cup, and hiding away the skimmer with a sump (the hang-on MCE couldn't fit in the gap above the sump, but the APF just sat outside the sump cupboard).  From a chemistry perspective, the amount of ozone being generated by these units cannot accumulate in an average home room. <<Agreed...and my point/surprise at Ross's comment re>> Ozone is so reactive that it will always quickly (seconds) find something to react with, preventing build-up.  The smell is actually a by-product of the ozone reaction with various materials.  Reducing the amount of ozone to the minimum necessary to achieve the desire results will minimize the smell - but not remove it completely.  The headaches Ross is suffering could be the irritation of the ozone by-product (not in itself harmful, just unpleasant).  I tried to reduce this smell by placing carbon on the air vents of the skimmer, but found it stopped removing the smell after a few days due to humidity saturating the carbon surface. <<Indeed, many folks don't realize how quickly carbon can/will become "saturated" with impurities...can be from minutes to days depending on quality...the same holding true for the carbon used for our water/tank filtration>> I never could find a satisfactory way to add carbon to these skimmers. <<A few manufacturers have tried to incorporate "chambers" for such...but most, including these so called "top of the line" skimmers (Deltec, Euro Reef, etc.) don't bother.  But I haven't really found a need for it either...in my experience>> There are a few skimmers on the market with large carbon cups that sit on top of the skimmer cup - these may reduce the smell for longer, but many are not top rated skimmers. <<Mmm...guess I should be reading ahead <grin> >> One solution would be continuing to use the MCE600 as his primary skimmer (it has a fabulous performance for its size), and install a new skimmer, with a built-in carbon cup, as a dedicated ozone delivery device.  Best of both worlds, and I suspect the carbon cup skimmer may be cheaper than the APF600. <<The ones I've seen are!>> That said, even with a large carbon cup, my own experience says, the carbon surface will become saturated from the humidity, and the ozone by-product smell will return. <<I wouldn't think the moisture alone in the air (humidity) would have a "saturation" effect on the carbon, else placing it in our tanks would render it useless immediately...but I do agree the impurities in the air exiting the skimmer would have a very rapid effect>> There is no substitute for minimizing ozone delivery to the minimum necessary to achieve your results.  I hope this helps.  I wrestled with the same issues for months, tried everything my LFS and I could think of, and ultimately couldn't find a perfect answer. <<Is there such a thing? <G> >> Eventually I was seduced by the "natural side" (rather than the dark side) replacing pretty much all the technology (except the skimmer) with a natural system (refugium the same size as the display, deep sand bed, micro algae, lots of live rock and Tunze stream circulation on the display) - the result was a level of filtration, stability and simplicity that technology (ozone included) could not provide. <<Am much in agreement with this/your approach and use something very similar myself...but still I believe most any system can benefit from the application of ozone>> It is ironic that I wasted thousands of pounds on technology, before coming to realize that nature already provides the best available solution (and for half the ultimate cost)! All the best, Andy <<Andy, thank you for sharing.  Kind regards, Eric Russell>> Change in Skimmate from Ozone Use - 04/28/06 Hi guys! <<and gals!>> Hope all is well! <<Yes, thank you>> I emailed a while back when I was moving from a 50 gal tank to a 180, glad to say it all went far better than expected (besides my Powder Blue stressing himself out and getting a tiny amount of white spot... I was expecting that and it cleared up by itself, close on to a year I've had him now). <<Mmm, difficult specie to keep long term...I wish you continued good luck>> Anyhow, enough of my ramblings and to the point!  I recently added a Sanders 100 ozonizer. <<Good product>> At the moment it's putting around 25mg/h of ozone into my skimmer (Deltec MCE600 - which seems to be handling the large tank quite well, although I'm considering an upgrade if I get more stock in the future). <<Indeed>> I run the overflow of the skimmer into a gallon glass container, otherwise I'm emptying it twice a day (or I was, until I added the ozone).  Therein lies the question... since adding the ozone I was expecting a small decrease in the concentration of skimmate (slightly less dark) but in the same quantities.  I hardly get any skimmate during the day now, but overnight I seem to get a lot, though nowhere near as much as I used to.  The only other change to the tank has been the addition of four assorted soft corals over a period of a couple of months. <<Should not have an affect on what you are seeing here>> My skimmer's clean and running as well as it ever has, is this simply down to some of the organics the skimmer would normally remove being oxidized? <<Is due to this (in part at least), yes.  Another contributor may be the addition of the ozonizer is restricting air flow to the skimmer pump...perhaps larger diameter tubing will help...or a larger skimmer>> I wasn't expecting such a difference with such a small amount of ozone. <<The ozone itself would likely have less "obvious" affect on a skimmer with a larger reaction chamber, but I wouldn't be concerned.  Just try to readjust the skimmer for optimum skimmate>> Thanks again guys, Ross Cranford <<Happy to help, Eric Russell>> P.S. I have a pair of maroon clownfish, the female has taken to a bubble anemone that I added just a day ago and she won't let the male near it, is that normal? <<Yes, will likely "ease up" in a while>> P.P.S. Is Bob's book published in the UK?  I'm after a copy but can't seem to find it! <<Mmm, would think so...Bob?  You can also order it from Amazon.com.  EricR>> <Think it can be had via Amazon UK, yes. RMF>

Ozone Application - 04/27/06 I am having trouble finding reliable ozone advice. <<Let's see if I can help>> My setup is a 180g display heavily stocked.  100g sump, 20g fuge, 50g grow out tank, so 350g total. <<Ok>> 1. How many mg/hr should I get?  I like to over-buy when possible for future upgrading, would 300mg/hr be enough? <<I believe so, yes.  Differences between systems other than just "size" would ultimately determine need, but I have a very high quality (Ozotech) 250mg/hr ozone generator on my heavily stocked 500g system (375g display, 75g sump, 55g refugium) and I don't run it "wide open">> 2. How do I connect the output of the ozonizer to my ASM G6 skimmer? <<Most ozonizers will come with instructions/adapters for such...is a simple matter in this case to hook the ozone output tubing to the air intake tubing on the skimmer pump>> 3. I will have an ORP controller, where does the probe go? <<Somewhere distal to the skimmer effluent.  I have mine mounted through the top panel of my display tank>> This will turn the ozonizers production on and off to keep ORP at a desired level? <<Won't "keep" it a set level per se, but will turn off the generator when/if the ozone reaches a certain set-point.  REDOX levels will fluctuate throughout the day based on many factors (oxygen levels, lighting, presence of organic matter <feeding>, etc)>> So does it matter if the mg/hr is too high for now? <<The controller will keep you from "overdosing" your tank, yes...if set correctly>> 4. With 300mg/hr is carbon really needed? <<Some debate here I suppose, some folks feel the skimmers used by/available to hobbyists are not powerful enough to be of concern.  I don't use carbon to filter the effluent from my skimmer, but when the generator is set to maximum production I do notice a reduction in micro fauna in my sump.  It would be a simple matter to place a bag of carbon under the skimmer effluent if you have any concerns re residual ozone>> 5. If I buy a unit without a dryer, can it be added later? <<Yes>> Thanks for your help, Rory <<A pleasure.  Regards EricR>>

Ozone  problems ... Toxic Water "Disease", Synthetic Salt Mix Use, Ozone Use...  - 04/25/06 Hi, <Greg> I have a small undersized ozone generator on my reef system of 300 gallons (30mg/hr max). Here's the link to the generator... http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/7945/cid/1966 <Good company> I should also mention that the age and wear/tear of the generator is unknown. It was given to me by a aquaculture research facility. The room they took it out of was very humid and my gut feeling was that this generator has some build up inside. <Can be tested... just running some air through, into a water sample should raise the pH discernibly...> I do not run an air dryer. The ozone goes into my skimmer and the outflow pour into carbon. The ORP reading peaks at about 350. <Might be working...> After about 2 weeks of running ozone my LPSs corals start to die. <... not from ozone> The flesh begins pulling off the skeleton. My Tri color Acropora starts to bleach out. My mushrooms start to shrivel up. Feather dusters pop there tops and begin dying. Fish start showing signs of ill health (black blotches, ick) My red sea O3 residual test kit reads "safe". This can't be caused by a sudden light increase because It effects feather dusters in the shadows as well as fish. Carbon is fresh and plentiful (about 8 oz). <Thirty milligrams per hour going into a skimmer, or even directly into the tank is not at all likely to create troubles> After 1 week of stopping ozone, things slowly begin to improve in health. Acro stops bleaching, LPS stop reseeding, etc. 1 month of no ozone things stabilized so I started it back up again and experienced problems all over again which confirmed it was ozone related. The feather dusters actually died and most of my fish are now sick. <Bizarre... and frightening... I can't think of what a small corona-discharge unit like this might be doing to produce such negative effect> My best guest at this point is by-products from the ozone. Possibly caused by the ozone generator itself or maybe some weird chemical reactions with my salt (here's my salt... http://www.aquariumsupplystore.com/Productspages/marine_enterprises_int.htm Interesting break down of salt mixes including mine... http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/11/aafeature1 <Interesting speculation> Thank you for your consideration, Greg <Thank you for sharing this. Am archiving under Toxic Water "Disease", Synthetic Salt Mix Use, Ozone Use... and sending, sharing with Mike del Prete, Ron Shimek. Bob Fenner> Ozone Delivery - 04/06/06 Dear Bob, <<EricR here tonight.>>    After doing some research on how to improve the quality of water in my reef tank, I've come to the conclusion that introducing  ozone into the system is the way to go. <<A useful tool yes, I employ it myself...but is not a panacea.  I'm not trying to discourage you, just wanting to set realistic expectations.>> After reading the many FAQs on this subject, and how it is best to introduce ozone through the protein skimmer. <<There's no argument that many, many people (including myself) use this method of employment, but this may well 'not' be the best method for employing ozone to gain the most efficiency/safety.>> Here is the problem.  I have an AquaC Remora protein skimmer, the instructions say that this skimmer was not designed for use with ozone. <<Then best you don't.>> What my question is, does this mean I have to go with UV sterilization, or is there another effective way of introducing ozone into the system without using the skimmer??? <<Other methods?...indeed my friend.  Do a Google search for 'ozone reactor' on the Net...DIY plans about as well.>> Thanks, Angelo <<You're welcome, EricR>>

Will ORP change in regard to Spfic. Gravity?  If so what is the scale  ratio?   03/07/06 <Mmm, don't know... I suspect that in general ORP will/would increase in any given setting, mix of circumstances with increasing salinity... but would "test this out" to see...> Thanks in advance for your response.  Bob your site is a  wonderful plan for communication and advance of the field.    Best regards Bob F   <There are times, questions like this that I wish we had a lab still. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Ozone   3/4/06 Hello:  Great site - thanks for the great answers and comments! I have a Euro-reef Skimmer.  They advise against ozone because it can create nitrate. <Don't understand this at all.  Ozone "burns" up organics, microbes, etc and makes the skimmer more efficient.> I was under the impression that bio waste (organic material) is first broken down into ammonia, then converted it nitrite, then nitrate.  This two part question.  First, how does nitrate exit he system? <Absorbed/used as food for macro algae, removed by dilution in water changes.>  I know a deep sand bed and macroalgae will break it down, but won't some naturally break down to NO and O2 - i.e., oxidize? <Some will.  Do search our site for more info on nitrate.> The second question then, is whether the O3 would oxidize the Nitrate into NO and O2? <It breaks it down allowing the skimmer to work more efficiently in its removal.>  Could the fine makes of the Euro-reef skimmer be mistaken on this one topic? <Might want to ask them this question.> I have been debating between UV or ozone, and have been leaning towards Ozone for a variety of reasons, but most prevalent was that I tend to have nitrate spikes, and until I can figure out what they are from, I thought I could burn it off in the Skimmer using Ozone.  I guess a third question would be if I use carbon to remove any excess ozone, is there a danger that I will remove trace elements to an extent significant enough to warrant concern? <The carbon is usually in a cup above the collection cup and removes excess ozone gas from entering the atmosphere.  No need to filter water through carbon in this regard.> I don't suppose you could give your suggestions on brands of ozone generators - but if you can, even if limited to what MD sells, I'd be most appreciative. <Ozone generators  all work on the same principle.  You will pay more for quality components/workmanship like anything else.  James (Salty Dog)> Edward ORP  - 2/4/2006 I recently purchased an American Marine ORP controller. The unit has been correctly calibrated with 400 ORP fluid. I also have an American Marine PH monitor. Both probes are placed in my sump, and been running now for two weeks, in the same compartment as my return pump. Without the use of ozone i am only obtaining a ORP reading of around 220 max. <Not atypical> Tank volume around 970 L including sump. Have 3 fish in the tank 1 Sohal Tang, 1 Naso Tang, 1 small King Angel. Lots of flow in tank using a  Tunze TS-24 kit. Protein skimmer is a Aqua-Medic Multi SL 1000. <Nice gear> I have just ordered  a Deltec Turbo 1250 to sit next to the Multi SL, in the sump. Today i performed a partial water change, and ORP reading has not changed. <Unusual... much volume change? Whose salt mix?> The water is very clear in appearance. I have obtained the following readings Ammonia 0, Nitrate 0, Nitrite 0.3 mg/l, Temp 27c, PH 8.15, Alk 180 ppm, Salinity 1.019. Any advise would be most welcome. Regards Alan <I'd be checking, recalibrating your probe... testing the effluent from the ozone source to see if it's working... Bob Fenner>

Re: Low ORP   2/14/06 Thanks for the information provided, i have tried sending a reply, and received no answer. I am using Reef Crystal salt, and made a water change of around 100 L. The probe has been again calibrated using Pin Point 400 fluid, still same ORP reading of around 210-220. Please note i have crushed coral as a base that has never been vacuumed, and is more than 1" in depth. Before i pull out the sump and remove the present wet and dry, i would like your opinion on the following changes to increase performance. 1. Purchase a gravel cleaner and reduce the gravel to around 3/4 " <A good idea> 2. Purchase a Deltec AP-701 skimmer which is good for 1500L. Because of the media in the first chamber, the supply to skimmer would need to be when the water has entered chamber two. I am not sure if i will be doing this excellent skimmer justice, due to not receiving raw water. <A very good idea> 3. As i have no high flow area in the sump for chemical filtration, i will purchase a canister filter and fill with poly filter and Chemi-pure between. Inlet and outlet same chamber as return pump. <An excellent addition> Please advise if the above is in order, and also any other recommendations to improve my water quality. <... I would also check your effluent water from your ozone source (if this is what you're using to increase RedOx potential)... Is it working? There should be a discernible shift in pH, dissolved oxygen, RedOx potential... Bob Fenner> Ozone inject ?    2/3/06 Is it possible to simply put an ozone feed air stone at the bottom of  a tank overflow.  Principle would be similar to counter current  skimmer? <Yes, is possible. Some folks have a fear of livestock-ozone negative exposure... with most units/amounts of O3 this is not a valid concern. Bob Fenner>

Remora skimmer and ozone  - 01/24/06 Hello! It has been a long time since II communicated with you, so I hope all of you guys are doing fine! <I am!> My tank is two years old and has been running quite successfully and with no problems (with the exception of brown algae since my RO unit needs maintenance). Till now I have not been thinking of using ozone in my tank. My RedOx reading with an American Marine meter (checked and reliable) is 300mV. Lately I have been thinking of adding an ozonizer to my system in order to increase the RedOx and overall water quality. I have the following two questions: 1. Will an ozonizer of 50 mV/Hour be ok for my 80 gal. medium stocked tank? <Should be... I suspect you mean to run this full out... w/o tying it to a meter> 2. I have an AquaC Remora skimmer. Is there a way of connecting the ozonizer to this skimmer or I will have to buy another skimmer? <Mmmm, I think you should contact Jason Kim re this issue... at Aqua C> Thanks in advance , Thanassis (your Greek friend) <Bob Fenner, your non-national pal>

Low ORP Reading   1/22/06 I recently purchased an American Marine ORP controller. The unit has been correctly calibrated with 400 ORP fluid. I also have an American Marine PH monitor. Both probes are placed in my sump, and been running now for two weeks, in the same compartment as my return pump. Without the use of ozone I am only obtaining a ORP reading of around 220 max. Tank volume around 970 L including sump. Have 3 fish in the tank 1 Sohal Tang, 1 Naso Tang, 1 small King Angel. Lots of flow in tank using a  Tunze TS-24 kit. Protein skimmer is a Aqua-Medic Multi SL 1000. I have just ordered  a Deltec Turbo 1250 to sit next to the Multi SL, in the sump. Today I performed a partial water change, and ORP reading has not changed. The water is very clear in appearance. I have obtained the following readings Ammonia 0, Nitrate 0, Nitrite 0.3 mg/l, Temp 27c, PH 8.15, Alk 180 ppm, Salinity 1.019. Any advise would be most welcome. <Low ORP readings are generally the result of high levels of dissolved organic material in the water.  If you are using a substrate you may want to start with vacuuming during weekly water changes.  I'd try using Chem-Pure and/or a Polyfilter to help remove this.  If you are using filter pads they should be cleaned/changed weekly.  Read these links for more info in this regard.  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nutrientcontrol.htm   http://www.wetwebmedia.com/watrqualmar.htm http://wetwebmedia.com/redox.htm  Hope this helps you out.  James (Salty Dog)> Regards Alan

Ozonizers How's it going WWM Crew? <It's going well.> I have been researching ozonizers lately and a can't decide what would be the best product for my 75 gallon reef tank.  If yall <y'all> could give me any suggestions, I would really appreciate it. <First, you will need about 30mg/hr of ozone in your size tank so that means buying a 50mg/hr unit.  You are also going to need a means of administrating it, such as a ozone safe protein skimmer.  I'm assuming you do understand that ozone cannot be injected directly into the tank through an air stone, etc.  As far as quality, I think that both the Sanders and Red Sea units would be good choices.  James (Salty Dog)> Thanks <You're welcome>

Aquarium Specialty...   1/13/06 Mr. Fenner, <Scott> I wanted to ask you if you remember using our name in reference to Ozotech. <Mmm, no> I had a gentleman contact me today and he said saw an article about ozone and Ozotech.  He said you mentioned us in on a thread within WetWebMedia. <Possible.. you can check... use the Google search tool...> If so I would like to personally thank you for referring to us.  It resulted in a sale.  If I can be of any assistance to you please let me know.  I think I sent you a request for sponsorship information a couple of months ago but I can't recall. I would like to learn more about WWM.  Hopefully you will have the resources/time to get back with us. <We have a friend who handles such contact info. MikeK... will cc him here> On another note, I would be interested in carrying your books on our site if that would be possible. <Will gladly sell you what we have> Sincerely, Scott Groseclose <Bob Fenner>

Aquarium Specialty...   1/13/06 Mr. Fenner, <Scott> I wanted to ask you if you remember using our name in reference to Ozotech. <Possibly> I had a gentleman contact me today and he said saw an article about ozone and Ozotech.  He said you mentioned us in on a thread within WetWebMedia. If so I would like to personally thank you for referring to us.  It resulted in a sale.  If I can be of any assistance to you please let me know.  I think I sent you a request for sponsorship information a couple of months ago but I can't recall. <Mmm, will cc MikeK re> I would like to learn more about WWM.  Hopefully you will have the resources/time to get back with us. <Thank you for your persistence> On another note, I would be interested in carrying your books on our site if that would be possible. <Mmm, just the NMA Reef Invertebrates title is about all we have. Can/will sell... they're 18 pieces to a case, 17.50 per. Bob Fenner> Sincerely, Scott Groseclose Sanders ozone 25mg model problem  12/26/05 Hi I hope you guys can help answer my question. <We'll try>I bought a sander ozone generator 25mg model. I have installed it on my 55 gallon reef through my Deltec   mce600 hang on skimmer. Question is that it doesn't seem to be producing much ozone anymore. I have it turned all the way up, the operational light is showing  its working but I hardly smell any ozone through the tubing when I take a whiff.  Anyway you can clean these sanders? I have no idea how to take it apart and I  lost the instructions. I went to the sanders web site and found no instructions.  I even sent them an e-mail a week ago and no response. When you hook up the air  pump which nozzle does it go on and which one is the output of the ozone? Any  suggestions would help. Sorry for the questions but I am concerned. <Scott, it's recommended that an air dryer be used before the ozone generator.  Air moisture can damage the unit.  Whether this happened to yours is hard to say.  It really doesn't matter which air inlet you use, all you are doing is blowing air through the generator and picking up ozone gas in the process.  I'd keep emailing Sanders until you get an answer. James (Salty Dog)> Scott

Ozone  12/20/2005 Dear Sirs: Will a 200mg/hour ozone generator produce enough ozone to treat a 200 gal reef with a 40 gal sump? <Should be no problem Paul.  As a rule of thumb, 10mg/hour per 10 gallons of water.  James (Salty Dog)> Thanks for your reply <You're welcome> Paul

Ozone question  12/5/05 Hello guys.  <Hello Will>  I've checked the faq's for this question, but was unable to find it, but if I ask a redundant question, I do apologize. I want to use an ozonizer in my 450 gallon. Will it be ok to run ozone through the venturi of my skimmer if the only carbon is on a separate filtration loop? I know from research on your site that I will probably be ok with no carbon at all, but will I have an added measure of safety even though my carbon filter isn't directly after my skimmer?  I will of course use a monitor/controller, and carbon on top of the skimmer for air filtration. By the way, I really enjoy your site and consult it all the time, (first time question though). I read Mr. Fenner's book for a year before I set up my first tank, and enjoyed the Rhode Island anecdotes, as I am a native Rhode Islander. Thanks for the help.  <Carbon is used to filter the air and usually is placed above the collection cup. This is for your benefit and not the fish as excess ozone in the air can cause headaches etc. Not necessary to filter water with carbon coming out of the skimmer as most of the residual ozone is expelled into the air and/or rises above the collection cup into the carbon chamber. James (Salty Dog)> Will Leighton 

Ozone question 11/25/2005 Dear Bob,  <James today> I have a Red Sea Ozonizer w/ Turboflotor multi. Air pump drives ozone through skimmer.  Skimmer is in the sump.  When the ORP probe is in the sump next to the main circulation return the ORP reads 110 mV higher than when the probe is placed in the tank three feet from the return.  Is this an observation that is frequently encountered ?  Should I leave the probe in the tank? Could I keep the probe in the sump and run a higher ORP, or would I be asking for trouble?  <Jimmy, the probe being that close to the skimmer return is reading ORP residual from the return.  The probe should be placed in the tank for a true reading.  James (Salty Dog)> Thanks Jimmy  <You're welcome>

Setting Up A Red Sea Deluxe Ozone Generator - 11/02/05 I'm setting my Red Sea Deluxe Ozone Generator, I know this can be dangerous if not done properly so I would appreciate any help. <<Not toys to be played with, but not all that "dangerous" in my opinion.>> I'm gonna be hooking it up in my sump through my Euro-Reef CS6-2+ protein skimmer. <<excellent>> I plan to put a tee to hook up an airline to the skimmer. <<???>> I was wondering if I needed a specific type of tubing to hook up the ozone generator to the skimmer or will normal airline tubing do? <<Regular airline tubing will work...for awhile. The ozone will react with the vinyl of the tubing and it will deteriorate and need frequent replacement, my recommendation is to acquire/use pure silicone tubing...will last much longer than the vinyl tubing.>> More importantly, or perhaps just as important I was wondering if I needed carbon and where should I put it, anywhere in the sump? in the skimmer? outside of the outlet? and if by the outlet where and how because the outlet pipe drips water down on the Euro-Reef? <<I don't worry/bother with carbon where my ozone generator is concerned. The skimmer blows off the ozone quite quickly, but if you're concerned you can place a bag of carbon is the sump near the effluent from the skimmer.>> Also where should the probe be placed, in the sump or in the aquarium and in any particular place in either one? <<Distal from the skimmer effluent...I have my probe in a corner of the display tank.>> If using carbon how often should the carbon be replaced and thanks again for your help and valuable web resource. <<A small amount changed out weekly should be fine. EricR>>

Ozone Info. I have just purchased an American Marine ORP controller and a Sander Certizon ozonizer, my tank is around 1050 L including the filter sump. Due to the ozonizer costs not varying a great deal in the different models I have ordered the 300 mg/h. Do you think this will be too big for my capacity. I have also ordered a PH monitor which is also American Marine. Please can you advise if the ORP and PH probes should be placed in the main tank, or in the sump, if you suggest in the sump, do you think in the same section as the Turboflotor skimmer is ok. Thanks in advance. <Size shouldn't matter as long as you are using a controller. The probe can be placed anywhere there is water flow. I don't think I'd put the probe in the same area as the skimmer. The probe may get coated with bubbles and give inaccurate information to the controller. James (Salty Dog)> Regards Alan

Ozone Output From UV Sterilizer 10/09/05 The most common opening line! You have a wonderful, wonderful site! And I mean it!  <<Thanks.>>  Anyways, I have purchased an AZoo 13W PL light UV Sterilizer for my 120G tank. I know these things are not 100% effective but can be helpful. Anyway, this sterilizer has an option wherein I can let air into it, something like the power head operated skimmers have. The box claims that after the air passes the PL lighting I will get O3 at the output. My questions are: How will O3 help in my FOWLR tank? Secondly should I connect the air intake or not?  <<Please read up on the ozone so you can determine whether you need/want to run ozone and if so, whether a UV sterilizer is the best way for you to do so.>>  If yes I don't have anything to regulate it other than the normal valve we use for air pumps? <<Ozone should not be added without some way to monitor it's affects and regulate. Ozone can harm your livestock and damage some components. Consult the manufacturer for their recommendations. In my opinion, if you determine that you want to run ozone, you are better off running an ozone generator and regulating the ozone with a controller. Again, there is lots of information on this topic on WWM.>> Thanks in advance. Keep Rocking <<You're welcome and good luck - Ted>>

Are ozonizers a thing of the past? 10/8/05 Hello WWM crew!! This is basically a simple question. I would like to set up my tank again. It ran for 2 years, but because of Hurricane Francis & Jeannie last year ( I live in Florida and we lost power both times for about a week) I lost everything, except a tomato clown, a purple lobster and a few blue legged crabs which I took on to my Q tank and took it to my sister's. Anyway I have a 75 gallon tank with 40 lbs of what used to be live rock and I wanted to set it up again...  So I went to a LFS and asked questions about how can I improve my actual set up, and I came up with the question if I should replace the UV sterilizer for an Ozonizer for better results overall. And the salesman replied that Ozonizers are a thing of the past, that UV was the way to go.   I Didn't know much about the ozonizer until now that I have read a few articles posted here. I'm more inclined into getting one and start the hobby again, but I don't want to spend money for something that is out or will soon be..  I personally did not have a good experience with the UV Sterilizer and its many burnouts of the bulb, but again, maybe it was a bad UV Sterilizer (Sealife Systems double helix 9w ). The question is are UV Sterilizers the way to go today and Ozonizers a thing of the past?  <Ozonizers have been around for ages and will continue to be around. I don't see them becoming obsolete in the near future. Although neither is necessary to attain success in this hobby, both do provide benefits to the aquarium. As to my choice...being my tank is reef, and if I did want to employ one of the two, I would go with ozone.  The downside of UV is that it kills everything good or bad going through it. If the tank is and always will be a fish only tank, then I would go with a quality UV system. Ozone generators really need a controller to properly maintain ORP levels and they are rather expensive. James (Salty Dog)> 

Ozonizer <Alan, didn't see your text on the Re.  James (Salty Dog)>

I have ordered a Sander Certizon C300 ozonizer and a American Marine ORP controller, as both are coming from different suppliers I am unable to obtain the following info. Will the ozonizer plug  direct into the controller. American Marine informed me the outlet on the controller is 110VAC, as the Sander unit is made in Germany I think it will be 220V. I am now concerned regarding if the two units will be compatible. SHOULD a from to that the not in (Salty Dog) model.  James 220V is it indeed if 115V for exchange and return work less lot installed.  A be have would (220V) GFCI pricey fact with along question area service your outlet run not.  You or controller all, at will version.  No, American model want you supplier clear made> Regards Alan

Re: Ozonizer  9/26/05 Sander's master distributor in the U.S. is Quality Marine (whlse., Los Angeles) still I believe. Bob Fenner>

Sander Info  9/28/05 Please can you give me the website address or e-mail address of Sander USA as I require some info on their ozonizer, I tried on the chat forum and received no reply. Regards Alan <You may have to ask your dealer to contact Quality Marine re: http://www.qualitymarineusa.com/home.html Bob Fenner>

Ozone 8/15/05 Hello Wet Web Crew!!!! <Michael> I read everything I could find on Ozone on your site and Googling.  It seems like sometimes a specific question has to be asked.  Sorry to bother you if I could have found the answer and missed it.  Ozone application, I realize most gurus recommend application of activated carbon for the effluent before it is returned to the display.  I also find that most questions have been answered suggesting returning the effluent to the sump for further off-gassing.  My point finally...  I would like to pass the effluent through a dedicated activated charcoal media chamber ( i.e.. forces all water through the media) for excess ozone removal, then straight back to the display.  Even though I have a 70 gallon sump,  I want the skimmer effluent to be part of the display turnover as opposed to closed loop application to the sump only.   Now I have read that ozone doesn't last long and converts to oxygen rather easily.   <Yes... almost instantaneously for the vast majority of cases with aquarium units> I have read articles that have suggested the levels in spas and aquariums applied venturi method may last as little as one second before it is rendered harmless.  I will be passing the effluent through a Pentair Mechanical Media device (37 inches tall!), should I go closed loop to the sump for further off-gassing? <I wouldn't> or do you believe that I will be fine going straight to the display from the skimmer through charcoal? <Yes> I hope I got that right.  By the way thanks for everything that you guys are writing (tome wise) and doing WWM wise.... I have most everything Bob and Anthony have written.  Write some more...... :0) MJ <Do, most every day. Cheers, Bob Fenner> Ozone hardware 8.14.05 O.k. Where is Anthony Calfo?   <In your service> (Hey-I grew up in Reading, PA.....have you been to THAT FISH PLACE in Lancaster?  It used to be nice.). <Yes... and they have invested huge sums of $ in improvements in the last few years in particular. Really an amazing place to see now.> Anthony, please be more specific and clear on ozonizers.   <OK... what are your questions, specifically?> I contacted Ozotech thinking I could get a cheaper better quality ozonizer and I about fell on the floor with their prices!  Yikes!   <Hmmm... I have never promoted them as "cheap" but rather a better (long-term) value. For not much more money than a poorly made hobby unit, you can get a unit that is made for lab/fisheries environments and quite long lived (hence the value)> Yet as of now, I got the Red Sea Aquazone Deluxe (Dryer, controller, probe) and it was working great. <Well... do be sure to compare apples to apples, here. Bead air driers are cheap... cheap to build, cheap to buy... and do not last long at all between recharges - mere days to weeks depending on humidity. As for prices: 150mg Ozotech unit $319 about $100-150 more than the hobby units of comparable size, yet far better quality than most. You get what you pay for my friend. Good things are seldom cheap, and cheap things are seldom good> About 2 weeks later, I have it set at 330 and the probe shows it dropping below that and yet the light is not coming on (showing ozone on) to bring it back up to the set level.  I'm not impressed. <I'm not sure what to tell you beyond contacting your retailer and/or Red Sea. But experiences like this time after time through the years have led me to the opinion that $100-250 hobby units just aren't worth it. I'll pay my $300-400 for a better made brand and use it for years. One of my Ozotech's now is over 10 years old> Actually I'm grumpy about it.  But I had read about the better quality of places like Ozotech (from you) and better prices.  What did you mean?   <Not cheaper, but better value my friend. Buying a $350 ozonizer once every ten years is a better value than buying a $200 unit 3-5 times perhaps per decade ;)> Can you give a list of suppliers where this is true?   PLEASE?!?  Thanks.  Renee' <no worries... a fine retailer: http://www.customaquatic.com/customaquatic/brandcategory.asp?brandid=OT&catID=oz best of luck, Anthony>

ORP and Denitrification 2 Dear Bob, <Albert> I wrote to you earlier.  Since then I have been thinking about my ORP readings and decided to calibrate my ORP probe.  My current daytime ORP seems to be 317mV.  Which is still a bit low in my estimates based on my earlier e-mail, since I do perform regular maintenance on all my tanks and I use deionized water for water changes.  I have an elaborate setup and I monitor the TDS and the water is always 0ppm.  My pH is still a bit low and I know that I have plenty of aeration and flow.  I also know that the nitrate reactors put a lot of reduced water back into the tank.  So are they a major factor or not? <Yes... by and large, the more organic material present, the lower the ORP>   What about creating the proper conditions for purple coralline algae growth?  What is the best way to push conditions for that? <Low light intensity, high calcium, magnesium AND alkalinity, absence of coralline predators, competing macrophytes.> I have 10K metal halides over my tanks at two foot intervals.  Yet I still do not see the algae growth that I would like.  Any advice would be welcome. Al Jackson Pittsburgh, PA <Do you know Anthony Calfo, Steven Pro of the local marine society? Bob Fenner> Ozone in a Marine Tank Hi!!! I have over the last 6 months learned a lot from this site and I thank you for that help, both directly (by replies to my questions) and indirectly (by replies to others questions).  I have had some problems with my FO tank over the last two weeks.  I have a 125 AGA with a 2229 and 2217 Eheim canister filters and an AquaC Remora Pro skimmer.  The fish I had in the tank were a Volitans Lion, a Snowflake Eel, a Bursa Trigger and  a Fox face Lo.  They have been put into the tank the that order with about 1 month in between.  I did not have a quarantine tank (will now) and had no troubles until I put the Fox face in.  Over the last 2 weeks I lost the Lion and the Fox face.  I have a some questions that are in kind of a random order, please bare with me on this. All was well with tank, as far as I could tell, before I put the Fox face Lo into the tank.  After I put him in, and started to feed him Romaine lettuce, the Lion stopped eating and his color faded.  His eyes started to cloud over and started to have problems breathing.  He died within a few days.  The Fox face came down with same systems plus he had what looked like rough skin.  He also died after few days.  The parameters of the tank were: Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 30, ph 7.9, temp 80, SG 1.021, and phosphate 1.5..The ph had started at 8.2 when I first set the tank up and had slowly gotten to 7.9.  I do a 20 gallon water change once a month. On the advise of a LFS I started to raise the ph by using a ph booster and took the back part of the glass cover off and put egg crate on to let CO2 escape.  He also had me put a ozone maker in line with air pump into tank.  This I did for 4 hours before talking to few a other people at other LFS's and they told me not to put the ozone directly into the tank that it would kill the fish I had left.  Your thoughts: is CO2 lowering my ph and can the ozone directly into the tank, unmonitored, be a problem? I checked the parameters of the tank 2 days after turning off the ozone, putting the egg crate on, adding two days worth of buffer, and using only air from an air stone into the tank and they are as follows: Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0, ph 8.2, temp 80, SG 1.021, and phosphate 1.5... Can the ozone reduce the Nitrate to 0?   Any other advise you can give is very well welcomed!!!!! Thanks in advance for your help. >>>>I have to be honest with you, I've been keeping marine fish successfully for 20 years, and have *NEVER* messed with ozone, or worried about escaping CO2, nor taken a pH reading. Frankly you, and your LFS are making this much more complicated than it needs to be in my opinion. First things first, you should be doing at least a 30 gallon water change on an FO tank of that size once a month. Secondly, discontinue feeding romaine lettuce. It's void of almost any nutrients that your fox face requires. Discontinue adding any kind of superfluous gasses and additives to your tank. You need to focus on water quality, and the first step is a LARGE water change in the range of 40%. Then, quarantine all new arrivals from now on. Any number of things could have happened, from a pathogen carried on the fox face, to a contaminant from the lettuce. These are both VERY hardy species, so whatever is happening is a major issue. I can tell what it WASN'T, and that is a pH problem. :) My guess is contamination of some sort. Remember, the solution to pollution is dilution. Good luck Jim<<<

Ozone questions 8/9/05 Hello WWM Team! You have answered some of my previous questions professionally and in tremendous detail, so I am back with another. The question isn't particularly about my system so I will save time with the complete set-up run down. The question stems from an outbreak of Cyanobacteria in my 250 gallon reef tank.. <Thanks for the kind words!> I do run an 100mg Ozonizer. It is coupled with an AquaMedic Turboflotor 5000 and controlled by an AquaMedic RedOx controller. The venturi can freely pull ozone through the generator which it does. Without the ozonizer switched off the tank would normally sit around the 360mv level. On it will usually be around 380-400mv. On and off I'm talking weeks not hours by the way. <All sounds good.. Kudos on the controller!  This is a must in my opinion and some folks try to skimp and not use one.> Taking me a while to get to the actual question here...sorry. Why does the skimmer produce very little skimmate and of a watery nature when the ozonizer is on But produces coffee coloured skimmate when off? The foam height in the reactor does not change, just becomes clearer and the skimmate is less, yellowy and watery. Why is this? <Ozone actually oxidizes the organics, reducing their molecular size as well as making them less "colorful".  See Reef Chemistry Expert Randy Holmes Farley's take here: http://web.archive.org/web/20030415033358/http:/home.mweb.co.za/jv/jv79/reef/skimmers2.html I am concerned about this. If the skimmer produces lots of brown stuff when the ozonizer is off where is it going when it's on?.  I have seen numerous posts regarding this but not a real indication as to what is actually happening. If the ozonizer is cracking these organics and the skimmer isn't collecting them where are they going?. <It is being broken down by oxidation.  The consequences of this are hard to pin down.> I am trying to rid the system of these organics to reduce the amount of Cyanobacteria in the tank in turn, I am getting confused as to whether I should stop with the ozone, decrease etc. Please help. Best regards. Lee <It is hard to say what will give the greatest benefit toward reducing the Cyano.  I would suggest running the ozone for a while and observing the Cyano.  Stop the ozone and again observe the Cyano.  This will help you determine which is better.  All that said, I suspect that stronger water movement, higher pH and higher alkalinity and reduced phosphate (via water changes or chemical media) will produce greater benefits than manipulation of ozone.  Hope this helps.  Adam.>  

Ozone questions follow up 8/19/05 Hello there,  Thank you very much (Adam) for the prompt reply and for the Randy Holmes recommendation, good read. I will go with your recommendation, seems logical. I have been engrossed in the FAQ's and articles on skimmers and have decided that I really do need to somehow guide raw surface water to my skimmer (AquaMedic Turboflotor 5000) and place the skimmer feed pump into a stable pool. I am not doing it this way at the moment...wrist smack. I am convinced that in a tank of 250 gallons plus, with 140 kg of live rock, 14 fish 30 corals +, more skimmate should be produced. I would say I get a 'tea cup' full of watery brown liquid every 3 days at best. Not good enough in my books. The skimmer is clean, needle wheel clean, I just think I am not using it to it's maximum. Any other ideas?  <Feeding this skimmer with surface fed water will help some, but only really if it is not allowed to settle in any vessel first (see more below).  Other than that, I would just be sure that it is adjusted optimally.> I'm not going to ask if raw water will improve the skimming efficiency as it's answered in many areas on WWM....But I am interested to know how to set up the area for the skimmer feed pump. i.e. what is the best way to get that surface water once it has been dispensed from the drain....surely it mixes up and dilutes the oily proteins when it enters the sump? Teeing the water from the drain isn't an answer as the water flow is not stable enough. I've tried it and the water level in the skimmer is un-stable, possibly the Durso standpipes, air bubbles etc. rendering one of the reasons for this exercise pointless. I would prefer to feed from my pump (OR2500) anyway. I await your expert help. Many thanks, Lee <Actually, the proteins don't get diluted in the sump.  If you think about it, the entire sump is filled with surface skimmed water, so it should have a fairly consistent concentration of organics.  The real issue is that the sump has it's own air/water interface that attracts the proteins away from the skimmer feed pump, so getting the water before it has a chance to "separate" is the real trick.  As you have seen, it is very hard to feed a skimmer this way and maintain a stable water level.  This is why few aquarists do it.  Best Regards. AdamC.>

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