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More FAQs about ORP, Ozone, Ozonizers Use/Rationale
Related Articles: Physical Filtration, Re-Dox,
Related FAQs: Ozone, Ozonizers 1, Ozone, Ozonizers 2, Ozone
3, System/Selection, Application/Installation,
Measuring,
Maintenance/Repair,
Reduction
Oxidation, &
Marine
Test Gear 1, Marine Test Gear 2,
Marine Water
Quality, Marine Water
Quality 2, Marine Water Quality 3,
Is the best, better water "worth it?" Clavelina diminuta Kott 1957.
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Ozone/skimming Q/clarification? 6/16/08
Bob- did you ever say that ozone is more important than protein skimming?
<Might have... is in many situations/set-ups>
An aquarist or two on the MD web forums are discussing this tid bit (they claim
came from you), but I don't ever remember you saying that.
<Heeee!>
Or, maybe I misinterpreted you... I thought you have/had said (all three times
I've went to this lecture) that ozone, among other benefits, improves
skimming... hmm...
Best,
Sara M.
<Does greatly improve, even to large extents at times, replace skimming... All
are useful adjuncts to water quality improvement... Cheers! BobF> |
Re: Algae, I am at my wits end, BGA contr., skimmer sel, O3 story 2/23/07
Thanks for the reply Mr. Fenner. To answer some questions, I do have some
Chaetomorpha algae in my sump, which does not seem to grow.
<Good>
I have a borderline DSB, some spots being quite deep 4" or more and some being
less.
<Mmm, I'd add to...>
I am a little reluctant to put more PhosBan in my tank because it lowers
alkalinity although I personally do not believe that phosphates are my problem.
<I agree>
I have re-read the article you wrote and all makes perfect sense, the only thing
I can come up with is perhaps buying a new skimmer that is more suited for a
tank my size and better collection of DOC's.
<Might help>
Speaking of protein skimmers I recently got a mouthful of skimmate
<Blechhh! Been there, spat that!>
because my skimmer (Aqua C HOB) is in my sump and I don't have enough clearance
to remove the collection cup, so in between cleanings I siphon the skimmate, not
good. I was wondering what your thoughts were between the Euroreef RS-135 vs.
Aqua C EV-180, either one would be better suited for my tank.
<Both are mighty fine units... I like the AquaC marginally more here>
In your article you also pointed out
that use of ozone for better skimming is also useful and the EV-180 comes with a
ozonizer hookup, which would be useful if needed.
<Yes>
Please, please, please explain to me the use of ozone (I have read the article
many times and its not clicking in my head) and the reasons for not wanting it
to escape into your tank, and for that matter how you keep it from entering your
tank (assuming you don't have a skimmer with a ozone hookup). Thank you very
much, Ryan.
<Mmm, the short of it/this is the Ozone (actually a triatomic molecule of
Oxygen) readily "falls apart" to form a much more stable diatomic molecule (the
twenty and a bit percent of that stuff between you and the screen)... the
unstable monatomic Oxygen atom really wanting to combine with whatever it can
find greatly expedites the removal of organic molecules... in your skimmer.
BobF>
Ozone questions 8/9/05
Hello WWM Team! You have answered some of my previous questions
professionally and in tremendous detail, so I am back with another. The question
isn't particularly about my system so I will save time with the complete set-up
run down. The question stems from an outbreak of Cyanobacteria in my 250 gallon
reef tank.. <Thanks for the kind words!>
I do run an 100mg Ozonizer. It is coupled with an AquaMedic Turboflotor 5000 and
controlled by an Aquamedic Redox controller. The venturi can freely pull ozone
through the generator which it does. Without the ozonizer switched off the tank
would normally sit around the 360mv level. On it will usually be around
380-400mv. On and off I'm talking weeks not hours by the way. <All sounds good..
Kudos on the controller! This is a must in my opinion and some folks try to
skimp and not use one.>
Taking me a while to get to the actual question here...sorry. Why does the
skimmer produce very little skimmate and of a watery nature when the ozonizer is
on But produces coffee coloured skimmate when off? The foam height in the
reactor does not change, just becomes clearer and the skimmate is less, yellowy
and watery. Why is this? <Ozone actually oxidizes the organics, reducing their
molecular size as well as making them less "colorful". See Reef Chemistry
Expert Randy Holmes Farley's take here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20030415033358/http:/home.mweb.co.za/jv/jv79/reef/skimmers2.html
I am concerned about this. If the skimmer produces lots of brown stuff when the
ozonizer is off where is it going when it's on?. I have seen numerous posts
regarding this but not a real indication as to what is actually happening. If
the ozonizer is cracking these organics and the skimmer isn't collecting them
where are they going?. <It is being broken down by oxidation. The consequences
of this are hard to pin down.>
I am trying to rid the system of these organics to reduce the amount of
Cyanobacteria in the tank in turn, I am getting confused as to whether I should
stop with the ozone, decrease etc. Please help. Best regards. Lee <It is hard to
say what will give the greatest benefit toward reducing the Cyano. I would
suggest running the ozone for a while and observing the Cyano. Stop the ozone
and again observe the Cyano. This will help you determine which is better. All
that said, I suspect that stronger water movement, higher pH and higher
alkalinity and reduced phosphate (via water changes or chemical media) will
produce greater benefits than manipulation of ozone. Hope this helps. Adam.>
Ozone questions follow up 8/19/05
Hello there, Thank you very much (Adam) for the prompt reply and for
the Randy Holmes
recommendation, good read. I will go with your recommendation, seems
logical. I have been engrossed in the FAQ's and articles on skimmers and
have decided that I really do need to somehow guide raw surface water to my
skimmer (Aquamedic Turboflotor 5000) and place the skimmer feed pump into a
stable pool. I am not doing it this way at the moment...wrist smack. I am
convinced that in a tank of 250 gallons plus, with 140 kg of live rock, 14
fish 30 corals +, more skimmate should be produced. I would say I get a 'tea
cup' full of watery brown liquid every 3 days at best. Not good enough in my
books. The skimmer is clean, needlewheel clean, I just think I am not using
it to it's maximum. Any other ideas? <Feeding this skimmer with surface fed
water will help some, but only really if it is not allowed to settle in any
vessel first (see more below). Other than that, I would just be sure that
it is adjusted optimally.>
I'm not going to ask if raw water will improve the skimming efficiency as
it's answered in many areas on WWM....But I am interested to know how to set
up the area for the skimmer feed pump. i.e. what is the best way to get that
surface water once it has been dispensed from the drain....surely it mixes
up and dilutes the oily proteins when it enters the sump? Teeing the water
from the drain isn't an answer as the water flow is not stable enough. I've
tried it and the water level in the skimmer is un-stable, possibly the Durso
standpipes, air bubbles etc. rendering one of the reasons for this exercise
pointless. I would prefer to feed from my pump (OR2500) anyway. I await your
expert help. Many thanks, Lee <Actually, the proteins don't get diluted in
the sump. If you think about it, the entire sump is filled with surface
skimmed water, so it should have a fairly consistent concentration of
organics. The real issue is that the sump has it's own air/water interface
that attracts the proteins away from the skimmer feed pump, so getting the
water before it has a chance to "separate" is the real trick. As you have
seen, it is very hard to feed a skimmer this way and maintain a stable water
level. This is why few aquarists do it. Best Regards. AdamC.>
Are ozonizers a thing of the past? 10/8/05
Hello WWM crew!! This is basically a simple question. I would like to set up
my tank again. It ran for 2 years, but because of Hurricane Francis & Jeannie last
year ( I live in Florida and we lost power both times for about a week)
I lost everything, except a tomato clown, a purple lobster and a few blue legged crabs which I took on to my Q tank and took it to my
sister's.
Anyway I have a 75 gallon tank with 40 lbs of what used to be live rock and I wanted to set it up
again...
So I went to a LFS and asked questions about how can I improve my actual set up, and I came up with the question if I should
replace the UV sterilizer for an Ozonizer for better results overall. And the salesman replied that Ozonizers are a thing of the
past, that UV was the way to go.
I Didn't know much about the ozonizer until now that I have read a few articles posted here. I'm more inclined into getting one and start the hobby
again, but I don't want to spend money for something that is out or will soon be..
I personally did not have a good experience with the UV Sterilizer and its many burnouts of the bulb, but again, maybe it was a bad UV Sterilizer (Sealife Systems double helix 9w
).
The question is are UV Sterilizers the way to go today and Ozonizers a thing of the past?
<Ozonizers have been around for ages and will continue to be around. I don't see them becoming obsolete in the near future. Although neither is necessary to attain success in this hobby, both do provide benefits to the aquarium. As to my choice...being my tank is reef, and if I did want to employ one of the two, I would go with ozone.
The downside of UV is that it kills everything good or bad going through it. If the tank is and always will be a fish only tank, then I would go with a quality UV system. Ozone generators really need a controller to properly maintain ORP levels and they are rather expensive. James (Salty Dog)>
Ozone Delivery - 04/06/06
Dear Bob,
<<EricR here tonight.>>
After doing some research on how to improve the quality of water in my reef
tank, I've come to the conclusion that introducing ozone into the system is
the way to go.
<<A useful tool yes, I employ it myself...but is not a panacea. I'm not
trying to discourage you, just wanting to set realistic expectations.>>
After reading the many FAQs on this subject, and how it is best to introduce
ozone through the protein skimmer.
<<There's no argument that many, many people (including myself) use this
method of employment, but this may well 'not' be the best method for
employing ozone to gain the most efficiency/safety.>>
Here is the problem. I have an AquaC Remora protein skimmer, the
instructions say that this skimmer was not designed for use with ozone.
<<Then best you don't.>>
What my question is, does this mean I have to go with UV sterilization, or
is there another effective way of introducing ozone into the system without
using the skimmer???
<<Other methods?...indeed my friend. Do a Google search for 'ozone reactor'
on the Net...DIY plans about as well.>>
Thanks,
Angelo
<<You're welcome, EricR>>
Huge ICH problem - control by Ozone? Mmm, nope - 05/13/2006
Hi guys,
<And some XX's...>
This is the first time I have emailed you guys, as have spent ages reading the
great amount of information on your site. What's stopped me?
<Don't know>
Well, I realize that you're busy, but this I couldn't keep to myself - it's
distressing my fish (and killing them) and upsetting me, even the cat seems
saddened by our misfortune.
<Yes>
I have a 240 litre reef with 40kg of live rock, MCE600, rowfos fluidizer, Eheim
wet and dry, a UV filter and will soon be adding Ozone, monitored to the MCE600.
The stock in the tank is as follows:
6 common clowns.
1 baby tang and a larger one.
4 shrimp (cleaner).
Bristle star fish (I think that's what it's called!)
Red Star fish.
Snails and hermits.
Recently I added a powder blue
<Tang? This system is too small for an Acanthurus leucosternon>
and didn't notice till I got back from a business trip, that it had Ich.
<Yikes... no quarantine?>
By the time I could get some treatment the next day it had died. Ich has now
spread throughout the tank and we've lost
3 clowns already. I have tried one of the shelf treatment ' ESHA Oodinex ' but
the Ich is still there, but not as prevalent.
<... your system is infested>
I realize that my UV setup is working as well as it could and will soon have
more flow running from the Eheim back to the tank, as previously it was working
on a separate pump that works the Rowa-phos fluidizer.
Will adding Ozone to the skimmer help in stopping Ich?
<Nope>
I appreciate your help. Many thanks in advance.
Stu
<Uhh... not so fast... Please read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/ichart2mar.htm
and the linked files above... formulate a plan... and act... quickly... to
eliminate this parasite from your system. Bob Fenner>
Ozone Usage/Amounts...Iodine Supplementation - 08/30/06
Dear Bob,
<<EricR here>>
I have a 180g FOWLR. 1 large Emp angel, 1 large majestic, 1 Foxface, 1
Heniochus butterfly, 4 skunk cleaner shrimp. 2 perculas, 1 macaroon, 1 blue
damsel, 1 goby, hermits and snails. The system has been up for 1 year and doing
fabulous. I have 2 wet-dries and use bioballs for media. 2 sump located
skimmers AquaC EV-180 and Euroreef RS 130,
<<Good skimmers...some authors recommend using multiple skimmers of differing
design to optimize the efficiencies re>>
One UV 55-watt Aqua UV. 10% water change weekly. I have started using ozone
injected thru the JG fitting of the AquaC and the results are visible: crystal
clear water.
<<Indeed! I find ozone to be more efficient than carbon is this respect>>
I note that AquaC recommends 50-100 mg/hr of ozone but not more since skimmate
production deceases with higher amounts.
<<Mmm, yes...and I have read some debate on whether this is desirable or
not. Some speculate breaking down the organic molecules with ozone makes the
skimmer less efficient...some speculate breaking down the molecules make the
organics more readily available to assimilation by the corals...some say "what
the heck", the skimmer is still as "efficient" as it ever was (just has less to
skim), the corals "may" be finding more food (just be aware nuisance alga too
will have more fuel), so if nothing is being malaffected what is the concern? I
tend to fall in to the latter category
I have a Red Sea 200mg/hr ozonizer with integrated controller. Tank ORP is
315-320mV during the day and rises to 340mV just before the lights go on in the
AM.
<<Sounds about "ideal" to me>>
I have been using 175 mg/hr of ozone in this tank. At this level the amount of
skimmate has gone down from both skimmers.
<<I have experienced this phenomenon as well>>
The ECV-180 has 275 gal/hr flow rate and the Euroreef system has 180 gal/hr
rate.
Would you recommend that I go to AquaC's recommended 50 mg/hr?
<<Based on your ORP readings and the fact you don't mention any deleterious
happenings re, no, I would not drop the production rate that low>>
Is it absolutely necessary that the skimmer effluent be carbon filtered?
<<No...the amount/concentration of ozone produced by these hobbyists units is
easily burned-up in/blown-off by the skimmer>>
Would using higher doses of ozone oxidize Iodine or other elements to the point
of detriment where HLLE may be a concern?
<<Addition of Iodine with water changes is recommended...else test/dose as
needed>>
Thanks, Have a nice day.
<<Same to you my friend>>
Jimmy
<<Regards, EricR>>
Which type of Ozone producer?
<Anthony Calfo in your service while Bob travels to Australia intent on
speaking the language... which means, I think, that he will be shirtless with a
hat on his head and a beer in his hands at all times <wink! to my friends in
Oz>>
I appreciate your input on the protein skimmer, it was on my list of things to
upgrade.
<a must have piece of equipment>
Are you telling me that an ozonizer is not a worthwhile
investment?
<I personally find them to be a very fun toy after you've bought everything
else. Really must have only in commercial applications if you have good
husbandry at home (QT all new livestock)>
And I have read all the FAQ's and not one compares corona to UV. Can you give me
any ideas, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks Don
<they are two entirely different beasts with Ozone being far more useful and
dangerous. Neither are necessary for a traditional marine aquarium if you QT
(again). UV simply irradiates the water and denatures algae and some pathogens
(if the flow if slow enough, the water is clear and prefiltered, the bulb is
changed every six months, the sleeve is cleaned quarterly or more often... very
strict to apply UV successfully). Ozone, besides being more effectively
germicidal, also increases O2 and ReDox in water, naturally clarifies (better
than carbon), makes protein skimmers work far more effectively and has little
maintenance issues to name a few. Misapplied though it can kill livestock and
make you ill. Determine your needs before plunging into UV or Ozone. Kindly,
Anthony Calfo>
Super Reef Devil + Coralife ozonizer
Hello,
<Cheers... Anthony Calfo in your service, telling everyone that Bob is in
Australia when he really has taken a "judicial detour" after getting
picked up for skinny dipping in a local university fountain. He says he was
looking for wildlife... and judging by the reported sorority brand
("Property of...") on an undisclosed location of his person... I'd say
he found it>
I own a Super Reef Devil (SRD) protein skimmer. It has taken me 3 frustrating
weeks, but it is now running *very* well. (I had to elevate it in the sump (1.75
inches) and add 2 additional bio-balls
(for a total of 10)). It took 3 long weeks, but the results have been well worth
the wait.
<necessity... the mother of invention. Kudos to you>
**NOTE** Word to the wise. The instructions that come with this skimmer are
GROSSLY inadequate. Set up is not the issue. Tuning is the issue.
<as it is with most skimmers>
Prior to hitting the 'magic combo' (elevate 1.75 inches in sump plus add 2 bio
balls) I thought I wasted my money. Now I think the SRD is wonderful (it pulls
burnt coffee colored skimmate from the tank
to the tune of one full collection cup per day. Bio-load is light to boot, as
the tank is only 3.5 weeks old. I had one day last week when it pulled 3 full
collection cups of skimmate from the tank (I was experiencing a severe outbreak
of diatom algae at the time)). ** END NOTE**
<Excellent!!! Thank you for passing this along. ATTENTION: All Daily Q&A
Readers... this is exactly how a skimmer should work. Yes... in a young, low
stocked system you should still be able to pull out a cup of dark skimmate
daily. So for tanks that are more established with fishes and haven't produced
skimmate consistently... do not let yourself think that there is not much to
skim. It will catch up eventually beginning with nuisance algae (thanks for the
info and diversion Mark)>
After much reading (including your very informative website) I am debating
purchasing a Coralife Model 50 electronic ozonizer (or maybe the Model 100).
I've never used an ozonizer before. Therefore, I have the following newbie
questions:
1) In general, how is an ozonizer hooked up to a protein skimmer?
<in-line with the venturi or other air supply>
2) Is it possible to hook up an ozonizer to the SRD? To any skimmer?
<yes...to any skimmer indeed. Even if that means adding a small airline>
3) Is there someplace (on your site or someplace else) where I can review some
sort of set up and/or planning guide?
<I haven't exhausted the archives but do a keyword search on this site only
(tag the bullet on the Google engine) for ozone... we have answered some recent
replies that may be helpful>
If it is possible, and not back-breakingly difficult,
I would like to run ozone to improve the already pretty darn good skimming
performance of my SRD (okay, so I'm greedy).
<agreed... it will improve skimming through saponification, raise Redox and
O2 levels, is antiseptic and improves water clarity noticeably which will help
with light penetration for corals>
If it helps, my SRD in is my sump (a 20 gallon long tank (30" x 12" x
12", I believe) located directly under my main
75 gallon tank. Between the sump and the Eheim Pro II 2028, there is not a lot
of room left under the tank -- some, but not much.
<the electronic ozonizer is very small and does not require an air dryer like
corona discharge units>
If you need any additional info, please let me know. I want to make sure that I
can actually use this model ozonizer (or another) *before* I spend my money. I
know my wife would appreciate it :-()
<make sure you pass all effluent water over carbon and also coordinate the
application of ozone with a Redox meter or controller (better yet)>
Thanks in advance. Sincerely, Mark Schwartz
<very welcome, my friend. Anthony Calfo>
Super Reef Devil + Coralife Ozonizer II
Anthony,
I contacted A.E. Technology (manufacturer of the SRD). They told me that using
ozone on that skimmer was not an option (they actually used the word
'dangerous', but did not elaborate, and I did not press the issue).
<wow! There are only two explanation for this: 1) they are mistaken and do
not truly understand and appreciate the merits of ozonation and 2) they have
used a really cheap grade of "plastic/acrylic" that is destabilized by
ozone. Good quality skimmer plastics and PVC can handle ozone with no problem.
Two of the biggest European skimmer manufacturers (Tunze and Sanders) give
specific instructions on how to apply ozone through their skimmers. Ozone
misapplied is indeed dangerous just like iodine supplements and a lack of water
changes... but I would not have insulted your intelligence by saying that they
were "dangerous" without at least elaborating>
They also felt that I would not see much, if any, improvement in performance (a
little surprising to me, but they know more about skimmers than I do).
<no my friend...trust your instincts. They give you an admonition and don't
explain it...hmmmmm? As I stated before... ozone and UV are really only
necessary for commercial applications (new fish/coral in and out frequently).
Few home aquariums truly need them (especially if you are QTing properly)
although some do benefit by it in special circumstances (high bioloads, coral
fragging/farming, overfeeding fish/coral for growth, etc.>
Thank you for your assistance. I do appreciate it. Sincerely, Mark Schwartz
<best regards Mark. Anthony>
Ozone or UV
In a large main display (fish only with LR) like 360-400 gallons. What would
be a better choice to add first for parasite/pathogen control. An ozonizer
(500mg/l) with ORP controller, or a large UV (120 watts). We plan on following
religious quarantining, but it is possible for crypto or others to occasionally
get through dips/quarantine/etc. Don't want to envision trying to track/capture
a tang in such a large tank. I know the UV will have to be de-sized from
manufacturer claims, but am inquiring into effectiveness of each method. Thanks,
Jim
<The best defense against disease is first off a strict quarantine protocol.
And then next, maintaining an optimum environment (water quality, foods/feeding,
decorations/hiding spots, temperature, compatible tankmates, etc.). Now to your
question, I would get the ozonizer/controller and skip the UV. Much more
effective at killing parasites and helps to maintain top notch water quality
when properly installed and monitored. -Steven Pro>
Don't Get Down From The Brown! (Algae)...
Hi crew, 2 unrelated questions if you would be so kind: 1: Is there any
evidence suggesting that use of ozone could contribute to fin
degeneration and/or HLLE?
<I have not heard of any connection between ozone and HLLE.. More of an
environmental "disease". As far as fin degeneration- it's possible
that over-dosing ozone can damage tissues on the fish, and lead to other
potential health problems. If used correctly, however, ozone is a very useful
tool for enhancing water quality><<Indirectly does/would help... with
improvement in water quality... RMF>>
2. I am in the process of breaking in a 20low which I intend to
use primarily as a live rock/gorgonian invertebrate system, with a couple of
hard corals; inhabitants will be limited to those collected in two to four feet
of water in the Florida Keys. For this purpose, I am lighting with 130watts of
power compact, 50/50 10,000k/actinic. The system is less than a week old, and I
have moved several gorgonians and some Halimeda and Caulerpa from the tank it is
replacing into it. The old system had a little brown
algae here and there, but within a few days of being under the PC's it has
really taken off, mantling the gorgonians, Halimeda and now the substrate; the
usual algae eaters are present and doing their job, but not keeping up.
<Algal blooms are common in new systems with abundant nutrients. And, when
you add into the equation a lot of light-wham! A recipe for nuisance algae! The
key here is balance...You need to activate nutrient export processes, such as
protein skimming, water changes, use of chemical filtration media, and good
overall husbandry techniques>
To date, I have fed very little, and plan to keep ahead of things with water
changes until cycling is complete, but this algae is a problem; this is my first
experience with PC's, and I assumed the high light levels would ultimately
disfavor the browns. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
<As above, fostering nutrient export processes will really help, as will a
dose of patience! In time, and with good water conditions, these nuisance algae
will give way to corallines...hang in there!>
Along the same lines, assuming use of turbo/Astrea snails, emerald crabs, and
blue legged hermits, I would be grateful for an unbiased estimate of how many of
each this system should utilize. Thanks for your help, Steve.
<Well, it's really hard to say...I'd go for about 6-8 of each...These guys
are good with hair algae, but may have minimal impact on the brown
"slime" algae...Just keep maintaining good water conditions, and hang
in there...These nasty algae will eventually go away! Good luck! Regards, Scott
F>
Ozone generators
Dear Bob & crew,
Trying to get a straight answer. Does ozone injected into a skimmer
specifically help remove phosphates and nitrates? I see in your FAQ
responses that ozone helps remove dissolved organic compounds, but Iıd like
to know about these two (end resultsı of the bio process specifically.
<Does help to reduce these compounds>
Also, I purchased a Euro Reef skimmer on your recommendation. Works great as
advertised. Any recommendation on what Ozone generator or use on a Euro Reef
CS12-2 and on a 400 gallon tank with heavy bio load?
<Am still a big fan of the Sander's line>
Except in certain
circumstances, I know you guys shy away from product endorsements, but if
youıve had any experience with a specific model of Ozone Generator on Euro
Reef skimmers, Iıd appreciate learning from your knowledge. I really canıt
afford to buy two Ozone generators (the one I always buy first) then the
best one for my situation (which I inevitably buy 3 months later when the
first is yielding mediocre results).
As always, best regards and thanks for your help.
<Bob Fenner>
Lost in The N-Ozone Layer..
>Hi, I am completely lost on this.
>>A map is needed.
>What is ozone?
>>O3, an unstable molecule of three atoms of oxygen. It
"wants" to get rid of one of those atoms, making it an excellent
oxidizer, and killer of fauna micro.
>How do you use it?
>>Personally, I like the smell, so I sniff it. I hear you're
not supposed to, though. J/K One uses an ozone generator,
and small amounts are fed into the water, often the water column of a foam
fractionator.
>Is it expensive?
>>It can be, I've never had call to use it, and haven't priced any units
in years. A quick Googlization should net many results.
>I have read somewhere on wetwebmedia that it can be effective to control
diseases like ich and other things. Thanks, Adam
>>It can be, yes. It's also used (more often I believe) to keep
the oxygen saturation up, and maintain proper Redox. These are all
things that are not, in my opinion, really necessary if you've properly set up a
stable system, though. If you're having trouble with disease, it's
wiser to assess your husbandry. Marina
Ozone questions 12/30/03
hey guys-
<Hi Justin!>
i have a few questions about ozone. pretty much
all i know about it is that you have deemed it beneficial.
<Ozone does indeed have many benefits when applied appropriately. IMO,
Ozone has a place in treating specific problems, but is probably unnecessary for
full time use in a properly maintained reef tank.>
after sorting through your articles and faq's, i am still a bit confused. more
specifically, how would i hook this up to my p.s. (AquaC ev-180 w/out ozone
modifications offered by aqua-c) or is it even possible?
<Jason at Aqua-C is outstanding with customer assistance. He will
be able to guide you well with this question. You could also Jury rig
a way to "T" the ozone into the air intake of the skimmer (being
careful not to limit the air intake)>.
i noticed this unit as an all inclusive kit by red sea including 100/mg/hr
ozonizer/controller, probe w/ air-dryer 250, and was wondering if this is really
all the equipment i need (i.e. no other controllers or monitors),
<It depends on the controller. IMO, an ORP meter or controller is
mandatory for use with ozone to prevent dangerous overdose. Some
ozonizers require an air pump to push air through the unit.>
sufficient for my 80 gallon reef and an all around decent set of equipment?
<This is probably more than enough capacity for your tank. I don't
know about the quality of this unit, but Red Sea almost certainly buys these
units from some one else and re-packages them.>
and about ozone, what specifically are the benefits, dangers, optimum levels,
and how they are obtained?
<Ozone oxidizes wastes in the water (as well as parasites). Overdosing
can be dangerous (literally burning animals), and ozonated water must be passed
through carbon to remove any remaining free ozone. Breathing ozone
can be dangerous to your health, and allowing ozone to escape into your home
must be prevented. Optimum levels depend on the application. If
you are treating parasitic infections, very high levels may be desirable. If
you are just trying to help keep your reef tank water nice and clear, much less
will be required.
If you monitor Redox (ORP) to guide your ozone application (most common and
appropriate way), a "normal value is 300-350mV. A typical
ozonated reef tank should not be allowed to go much above 375mV. If
you are treating parasitic infections in quarantine, a value of up to 400 may be
appropriate.>
thanks for all the help you've provided me and other aquarists around the world,
keep up the good work and am anxiously waiting for the next volume to be
released, sincerely
Justin Barstow <glad you have benefited! Adam>
ORP level for controlling Ick? 5/103
Wet Web Media Crew Hello, I have a reef tank 500 Liters, and I'm using
Aquazone 100 mg With ORP Controller, What I would like to know - How high should
the ORP level be if I would like to Kill \ Weaken the ICK? thanks in advance, Asaf.
<there is no direct/correlative reading of ORP for controlling parasites.
Disease control begins with proper quarantine of all new livestock in a separate
vessel for 4 weeks prior to entry in the main display. That said... a good Redox
value with ozone in the aquarium is around 400mv (350-425mv range). Stability is
better than occasional spikes to unrealistic highs (some folks push ORP to 450mv
or higher). Best regards, Anthony
OZONE QUESTIONS-and a little help from the past FAQ's
Hi Scott,
I have one more...
What exactly is ORP? <Oxidative Reduction Potential> I understand that
skimmer increases ORP, which is good.
But why certain people employ ozonators to increase ORP? Isn't skimmer good
enough?<Do read below>
Can ozone be dosed directly into tank, or does it need some kind of special
chamber?
Is it better than UV light at fighting pathogens?<Inject ozone through a
proper reactor or skimmer and pass all effluent water over activated carbon, and
change the carbon regularly---UV is used germicidally to reduce the numbers of
pathogens (but no guaranteed cure, mind you). It is simple and safe but requires
very regular maintenance to be effective... needs prefiltered and clear water
clarity from chemical filtration regularly), bulbs need to be changed every 6
months (they are dear in price) and the reaction chamber needs to be
cleaned/flushed at least monthly. Ozone on the other hand has numerous benefits:
germicidal, adjustable, imparts oxygen to water, improves clarity (clears
discolorants to reveal icy blue water, improve Redox potential of the water
(indirectly inhibiting algae) and more. However, it can be overdosed if not
controlled. Must be used with a controller or at least watched with a Redox
meter. Effluent water must be passed over carbon changed regularly. With extreme
misuse can be a slight to moderate health hazard to people. If you are moving
fish in and out frequently, or if your system has a heavy bio-load, I'd suggest
an electronic (not corona discharge) ozonizer with a Redox controller and carbon
chamber. If you are a casual aquarist with a central system that will not see
frequent new entries (w/o quarantine)... then a UV may be safer and
satisfactory.(Found this on the WWM...by Anthony Calfo :)>
Thank you,
Luke
Benefits of ozone
Thanks again for some valuable information,
<Welcome>
After reading Bob's advice on the use of ozone I decided to buy an ozonizer and
I cannot believe the difference in my tank!!!!!
I had a suspected outbreak of Cryptocaryon and the ozone appears to have cleared
this up and on top of this the water is now crystal clear with a significant
reduction in nuisance algae.
<All related benefits>
Another benefit is that after adding the ozonizer I now have a newly acquired
copepod population!!!
thanks once again for excellent advice
Frank from Glasgow
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Ozone on a Remora Pro
Good Morning Crew! <Good Afternoon, Andy>
I just want to start out by saying Thanks for all the info you've
given me; I've had a Marine tank for about 7 years now, and if I would have
found this website things would have gone A LOT more smoothly in the
beginning! I also want to take a second, and tell you even after all this
time, I still learned a million things while reading The CMA, and I'm in
the middle of Reef Inverts; great work, It's amazing how much information
is in these books! <Thank you for your kind words.>
On to the actual question, though... I'm going to be moving my
aquarium to a different room in the home (Actually, starting a new one, and
tearing the old one down slowly), and after much research here, and on
other sites, I've decided to try using O3 on the Aquarium with an
ORP/Controller unit, still unsure on the brand, but positive it'll make a
nice addition to the tank. I have e-mailed Aqua-C directly a few months
ago, and was told that they don't recommend running Ozone with the Remora
Pro, but stumbling through your FAQ's, I see that the crew has given people
some instructions on how to do it. I've got some questions on the logistics
of it, if you can help.
1. The skimmer has a Mag-3 pump, and I understand that most
recommendations are to effectively "T" in an ozone line between the pump,
and skimmer inlet. Are there commercially available T's, even with
modification, that you know of? Or would it be better to feed the ozone at
the pump Inlet? I can fab something up there...
2. The addition of "air" to the pump will produce a drop in flow; is
there a way to calculate the drop, and up-size the pump accordingly? The
skimmer works VERY well, I don't want to slow that down.
3. Can carbon be placed in the Pre-filter/skimmer box to filter the
return water? And is it safe to have it dump into the main tank like this?
I can place this in my sump if necessary, it's just a tight fit.
4. Is this thing even "Ozone Compatible", or would it just be easier
to just buy a cheap, venturi skimmer not to skim, but to ozonate? If so, do
you have any recommendations?
5. Or is there a better way to do this, like putting a JG fitting in
the body of the skimmer?
Just some thoughts; I figured I'd ask this time, instead of doing
things "My Way" and ending up with another box full of stupid equipment
modifications and purchases (Anyone want a Sea-Clone 100, or a Nitrate
Reductor? :) ). Sorry for my verbose question; I've been rolling this one
around in my head for a while now... :)
<Andy, before I answer your questions, please reconsider using ozone. It isn't
a bad thing to do, it's just that if a tank is properly maintained, ORP levels
of 300+ can be maintained without the use of it. I only say this because of the
cost of an O3 generator and controller is kind of pricey and I can think of much
better things to spend money on than an ozone system. If that is what you want
to do, I'll go through this with you. James (Salty Dog)>
Thanks very much for your help- <You're welcome.> <<RMF disagrees>>
-Andy Broczkowski
Protein Skimming, Ozone, and UV Use in Marine Filtration 7/5/05
Hello Bob,
I enjoyed your article on ozonizers on www.about.com.
<Actually on WWM... a link on about.com>
I have a quick question for you and don't want to take too much of your time but
I would appreciate your opinion. I have a 240 gallon reef with a large
population of SPS and LPS corals. With the introduction of ozone to have my
protein skimmer at its peak efficiency would be great. But would the
introduction of ozone into the contact chamber of the skimmer kill even the
beneficial microbes along with zapping bacteria, microbes and unwanted
organics?
<Oxidizes all indiscriminately. What most folks shoot for is "enough" O3 to
reduce free-living bacteria (most ones you want are not suspended in water) and
organics...>
You stated in the section where you discussed the cons of using a UV Sterilizer
that one of the cons of using a UV sterilizer is that you also zap beneficial
microbes as well as bad.
<Yes... to some extent>
In a reef aquarium my corals rely on a lot of the plankton and microbes for
food. Would the ozone affect this and is there any recommendations you can
suggest on the usage of ozone?
I look forward to your advice.
Thank you,
John Vu
<In practical application John, folks have little lingering ozone... providing a
few hundred milligrams per hour, delivered to/through your skimmer directly or
not, will not harm your livestock. Bob Fenner>
Another Ozonizer Question - 07/23/05
My name is Bob, and this is regarding a 12 year old reef.
<<Howdy Bob!>>
I have done a lot of water changes over this time, and think I am burning
out.... Judging from my degrading water quality.
<<Um...ok(!?)>>
Bob Fenner has sang the praises of Ozone for quite some time <<Many, including
myself, feel he knows what he's talking about.>>, but EVERY one of my LFS are
against it for the usual reasons (wipe out potential, "over clean" water. etc..
etc..) My 3 quick questions are:
<<"Over clean water?!"...excuse me while I have a chuckle...>>
1. I still plan on performing typical maint. practices, but is relying on ozone
to "pick up some of the slack" improper thinking?
<<Yes...ozone is an adjunct to proper maintenance/husbandry...not a
replacement.>>
2. I don't plan on jacking the ORP up to the max safe limit, but to just the
level needed to maintain crystal clear water (and whatever the ORP is...it is.)
<<An ORP of/around 350 is a safe and useful level.>>
3. I don't read much about the long term maintenance of an Ozone system. I'm
considering the Red Sea w/built in controller.
<<Have read/heard good things about these...better units to be had for sure
(Ozotech)...but the Red Sea units reportedly provide good service for value.>>
What should I expect in terms of calibration, probe cleaning and replacement,
replacement of the O/3 output device, etc.. etc..
<<Will depend on your system, amount of use, etc.... Follow the manufacturers
recommendations.>>
Thanks for all your help, and I suggest readers follow the link to make a
donation to this wonderful site!
<<Thank you for this.>>
Bob
<<Regards, Eric R.>>
Re- Another Ozonizer Question - 07/24/05
By " over clean" I'm referring to the elimination of micro-life,
beneficial bacteria....etc.. etc..
<<Not a concern if/when applied responsibly/correctly.>>
Thanks for the reply, I ordered the Red Sea...and promise not to rely on
it too much!
<<Excellent to hear.>>
Bob
Ozone Concerns - 12/10/05
Hey Crew,
<<Hello>>
Happy holidays.
<<Thanks...and to you and yours...>>
I have a 180g FOWLR ~175 lbs LR with two large angels, Foxface, Heniochus, a damsel, three clowns, snails approx 30, hermits approximately 40. Water is absolutely crystal clear.
<<Ok>>
Tank is doing GREAT. I do use ozone
<<So do I...>>
injected with a dedicated pump through a Turboflotor-Multi. In order to keep the ORP at 330-340 mV I am injecting 175 mg/hr through and Aquazone ozonizer/controller. The ozonizer is on pretty much constantly.
<<Ideally it would be, with the right setting on the controller...in my opinion.>>
The ORP probe is in the tank and reads accurately. Water circulation is approx 10x per hour thru two wet-dries and another 1000 gal/hr circulation w/powerheads inside the tank.
<<Very good>>
Since I increased the circulation by adding the powerheads and cleaning my pumps to about double what it was a month ago my small
Cyanobacteria problem has been cured.
<<More/improved circulation is sometimes all it takes>>
Is it acceptable that I use this much ozone to keep the ORP at this level?
<<Sure...I have a large tank (375g) on which I run a very efficient 250 mg/hr ozone generator (Ozotech) wide open 24/7...through use of a controller of course. Since you're secure in the accuracy of the probe/controller you should be able to use as much as it takes. And since you are adding the ozone through your skimmer, any excess is being quickly blown off...though some folks feel safer by adding a small bag of carbon at the effluent output.>>
Would it be better that I back off on the ozone production?
<<I see no reason to here.>>
I have tested the water immediately coming out of the skimmer before any carbon filtration and there is no detectable ozone even when the ozonizer is turned up this high.
<<Yes...reacts/is blown off/utilized very quickly. The hobby units available really do pose little concern for residual ozone.>>
I can smell the ozone under the cabinet.
<<No more dangerous than an "air purifier" that uses ozone to clean the air. As long as you don't have residual ozone entering the tank (unlikely), it will be fine.>>
I would like to keep the ozone going; over the past few months the most substantive changes in my system have been the addition of ozone and increased circulation.
<<Both of great utility. Keep the ozone going...used responsibly as you are doing it will be of great benefit. The least of which as you have noted...water that is "absolutely crystal clear"...>>
Thanks for the advice, Jimmy
<<A pleasure Jimmy. Regards, EricR>>
Ozonizer
I recently finished reading your book, ' The Conscientious Marine Aquarist'. I noticed you wrote; before buying any sort of
meter, doser, denitrator, or UV sterilizer, one should first purchase an ozonizer. So without further delay I am wanting to purchase one. Although I have no clue of what type or size I would need for my 30 gallon reef. And is ozone something that can be harmful to one? Any information you can give is greatly appreciated. Thank, Rob.
>>
Ozonizers are indeed worthwhile additions to a filter strategy. Their size (milligrams of O3 per hour...) can be a little tricky depending on where you'll be introducing the triatomic oxygen... best to your skimmer... Look for the recommendations of the various manufacturers (mainly ESU and Sander's in the U.S.) units... they're labeled as such... and no to the danger question... Another largely urban myth... The amount and
transiency of the ozone produced by these units precludes their being any real danger from their use... The use of aerosols and cooking indoors are far more of consequence.
Bob Fenner
Ozone nay or ya
Hi,
My husband wants to add an ozonizer to are (already doing really well) set-up. I say leave well enough alone. Help us with this disagreement
please. Do we need one or not? Why?
P.S. The tank has been set up for two years now.
sincerely, Georgia
>>
Maybe not need, but an ozonizer is a great adjunct to enhancing water quality... increasing
Redox, dissolved oxygen, reducing overall microbe populations in your system, helping to keep the water clean/clear...I would get it way ahead of a ultraviolet sterilizer myself...
Bob Fenner, who says yea
Ozone
Bob,
Am interested in your opinions on ozone generators. Are they useful or just another gizmo and do they reduce
nitrates, phosphates etc at all.
Cheers, Scott
>>
Very useful... IMO a better choice in more settings than ultraviolet sterilizers... For increasing D.O.,
Redox, reducing DOC's (dissolved organic compounds)... eliminating color in the water, lowering TBC (total bacteria counts)... overall water quality improvement ... my further plug for this technology can be found here: Home Page
Bob Fenner
Re: ozone
Bob,
Thanks for the fast reply ,now a couple more queries. Is it right that the
return water from the skimmer must go thru activated carbon before returning
to the tank and if a small amount of ozonizer water should miss the carbon
would it do any damage. Also would you run an ozonizer 24/7.I have a large
tank-155g with a lot of live rock but it is fairly heavily stocked. I also
have a U.V so would an ozonizer be overkill.
Cheers,
Scott.
<Thank you for asking the "next questions" in logical order (part of the bane of these sorts of forums is the call for short, concise...
unsatisfying pointed responses)... No to the urban myth of triatomic oxygen getting into your system, wreaking havoc... just doesn't happen with the small amounts of ozone the hobby's generators make...
No damage from running yours 24/7 (this is what is done in public aquariums, wholesale holding facilities around the planet)... And a
U.V. in addition is not overkill... complimentary in effects (reduces total bacteria, increases oxygen, lowers DOC...).
Bob Fenner>
Ozone & Calcium Reactor
Was wondering if either Ozone and/or Calcium Reactor would benefit a fish
only system(150g) with live rock(160#) ? If so, should I use one or both
during the curing of the rock or wait until cycled?
Thanks, Lex
>>
Both would, do... and if I had them, I would definitely run both continuously... and during the curing period of the live rock... will actually speed and stabilize the curing process(es)...
Bob Fenner
Ozone
Can you tell me the benefits of an ozonizer... what it can do and what it
can't. I hear it will helps kill certain bacteria and viruses. Thanks
>>
Sure, in general terms. An ozonizer improves water quality by increasing dissolved oxygen content, raising
Redox potential, oxidizing dissolved organic compounds, reducing total bacteria count (don't know about viruses...), and bumping off algae... Just in passing will mention that there are western European countries which use ozone as their sanitizer, skipping (actually quite toxic) chlorine containing compounds...
Bob Fenner
Ozone and U.V
hi bob,
can ozone and U.V operated at the same time?
<Yes... in fact, some "ozonizers" are ultraviolet sterilizers...>
my ozone is controlled by Aquamedic mv computer and I set to 350mv how much mg /h of ozone do
I need to set i.e: 10mg, 20mg or 40mg mine is a sander 100.
<Hmm, if your ozonizer is controlled by a mv probe tie-in (ozone is/can be measured indirectly by conductivity), you shouldn't need to "set" your Sander's producer... If it were my system (you don't state what size, much else... I would leave a "100" on full blast and check the
microSiemens per centimeter readings a few times per day, night... I doubt (if this tank is of size, has much life in it) that you will get into trouble with this unit, setting>
my U.V is HW 2000 and how long do I need to on per day? which of this will kill parasite and will it kill crypt and
Oodinium? lastly
I heard for my pal in USA that there was a ban on king angel is it true? thanks
<Leave the UV on continuously. Neither will absolutely (one hundred percent) kill all crypt and
Oodinium... but both will help to improve water quality and reduce the chances of problems with infectious and parasitic disease. Bob Fenner. Oh, and the ban on King Angelfish, Pomacanthus zonipectus is over... Mexico "reopened" last year to collecting, and this fish is coming out steadily from Baja.>
Ozone
Hi Bob! I would like to know more about adding ozone to my tank. I have had
poor luck trying to find out information on this. I have so many questions
about it.
I am assuming it will increase the oxygen in the tank?
<Correct... and raise the Redox potential...>
Does it really help clean the water as much as some say?
<A qualified yes>
Does it kill off algae and parasites? (floating)
<Helps>
How much is needed?
<Depends on a few factors... size of tank, bioload, dissolved organics, desires on your part... a few hundred milligrams per hour likely...>
How long should it be on per day?
<Continuously>
Should it be placed in the sump?
<Better than a main system inlet, yes>
What about the dryers?
<Very worthwhile in humid environments... improves production of ozone considerably>
What should I look for in buying a good unit ozonizer with controller and
probe?
<Hmmm, more than anything? The reputation of the gear with folks who actually have used/are using it>
I am running a 55 fish only (shrimps, crabs and star fish too)(Live rock but no corals). Of course it is fully stocked but not too much so. I just want to clean the water as much as possible for my little friends. I hear that
when ozone is added the protein skimmer sucks out even more gunk.
<Mmm, yes, and a good deal of the same sorts of materials are "burned up".>
I have
never had a problem in all the years of running saltwater tanks but anything
that may aid in keeping the water quality higher for longer should be used.
Tons of questions, very little answers so far.
Help! Brad Zimmerman
<Be chatting, my curious friend. Bob Fenner>
FO set up question...
Hi Bob,
I have a 100 gal fish only system with about 80-90 pounds of live rock. My setup also has a
Turboflotor 1000 skimmer.
I'm also Inj. ozone, plus two 25 watt UV sterilizer. My livestock consists of a lg queen angel, lg panther grouper, flame hawk fish, sm.
Huma trigger, and a
juv. Atlantic tang. The water is PRISTINE clear. Like I've never seen before while in this hobby for over 5 years. I believe its due to the UV sterilizer and electronic ozone gen.
<Likely so... along with your excellent maintenance>
Ok now for my question. Since I am inj. ozone to the skimmer. should I be monitoring the
ORP????
<Hmm, if you're concerned about over-treatment... but this is likely not an issue... as it has not been>
I figure inj 10mg/hr of ozone per 25 gallons. Is this correct??
<About right, safe>
My fish are doing fine at this moment. It also seems that my skimmer works better
inj. ozone. The collection cup has darker, thicker, dryer fluid in it when inj. ozone.
<Yes, this is so... they work together better than alone>
My last question is I keep my salinity at 1.018, is this ok? Because I also want to help manage , and prevent any disease such as
ich. Thanks bob.
<Yes for your FO system, this mix of organisms... and you're welcome. Bob
Fenner>
Lee
Protein Skimmer
Hi, Bob. Checking out your web has become one of the things that I need to
do everyday. Keep learning something new and keep having new questions
everyday. I think that's why we get addicted to this hobby. We would never
get bored!
<Agree with you all the way around>
Anyway, thanks again wholeheartedly for your contribution to this
hobby. Now my questions are:
Before I connected the protein skimmer with an ozonizer, the protein skimmer
had collected brown colour waste. Now after I added the ozonizer, the
protein skimmer could only extract clear water. The tank water is actually a
lot more clear than before. Should I be worried about that?
<No, this is to be expected>
I told u last time that I have been having difficulty in keeping tomato
clown. You suggested me that I can try some tank-breed small ones.
Unfortunately, the LFS here only offer the wild ones. I am thinking to add
some bubble tip anemones in the hope that it will help the tomato
acclimatize. Do you think it helps? please note that I have no experience at
all in keeping anemones.
<Skip the anemone... hard to keep for now. And order the Clown/s from an
etailer. A few are listed on the WWM links page. Amazing that a LFS would not offer tank bred species here>
Thank you very much in advance. Eric
<Be chatting my friend. Bob Fenner>
Eric Ho
Coral Life model 50 ozonizer
Hi Bob,
In my aquarium inventory. I've stocked quite a bit of aquarium equip. Over the years while being in this wonderful hobby. I always keep my stuff, never selling them. Anyhow I have a Coral Life model 50 ozone gen. It puts out 50 mg of ozone. The package says up to 130 gallons. Yeah if your wondering I even keep all of the packages.
<Good idea... so do I.>
Ok my tank is now a 240 FO system. even though this unit is for a 130 gal. tank. Will this unit benefit at ALL if I tap it in with my Turboflotor skimmer on my 240, even though its undersized? Will a little bit of ozone present make ANY diff??? Thanks again.
<Yes... it would be beneficial to apply 50 milligrams of ozone every hour to your system. As you state, perhaps less than optimal, but of use nonetheless. Bob Fenner>
Lee
Ozone question?
I hope I am no pest.
<Anthony Calfo in your service>
Please explain why or why not to use ozone for my
central filtration system. U.V sterilizer will help?
<UV is used germicidally to reduce the numbers of pathogens (but no guaranteed cure, mind you). It is simple and safe but requires very regular maintenance to be effective... needs
prefiltered and clear
water clarity from chemical filtration regularly), bulbs need to be changed every 6 months (they are dear in price) and the reaction chamber needs to be cleaned/flushed at least monthly. Ozone on the other hand has numerous benefits:
germicidal, adjustable, imparts oxygen to water, improves clarity (clears discolorants to reveal icy
blue water, improve Redox potential of the water (indirectly
inhibiting algae) and more. However, it can be overdosed if not controlled. Must be used with a controller or at least watched with a
Redox meter. Effluent water must be passed over carbon changed regularly. With extreme misuse can be a slight to moderate health hazard to people. If you are moving fish in and out frequently, or if your system has a heavy bio-load, I'd suggest an electronic (not corona discharge) ozonizer with a
Redox controller and carbon chamber. If you are a casual aquarist with a central system that will not see
frequent new entries (w/o quarantine)... then a UV may be safer and satisfactory. Kindly, Anthony>
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