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http://wetwebmedia.com/marsetupindex2.htm
Bob Fenner>
Quiet Return Pumps? - 04/23/06 Good Morning WetWebians; <<Late night here on the East Coast now...Howdy!>> I apologize, as this is a little long, but here goes. <<No worries mate>> I am in the process of sorting out the plumbing for a 6',180gal. reef. What I have for plumbing are two overflows, each with a 1.5-inch drain which dumps into a Rubbermaid container in the stand beneath. I think these are good for about 1200 or1300 gph each. <<Mmm, yes...on paper. Can take much fiddling/tuning to get this much out of them>> From there, a 1" bulkhead feeds a Quiet One 6000 which pumps the water back to the tank through, perhaps, four feet of 1" PVC (with two 90s and one 45 elbow), at the end of which will be a manifold of some sort. <<Ahh ok, good...you're not trying to "max out" the overflows through the sump (yet)>> Also on the Rubbermaid, is a 1.5" bulkhead which will drain to a 75gal. sump/refugium in the basement (currently, there is a 35 gal. tank there, since I am using the 75 to hold my livestock in the interim). The return pump will likely be a Mag 24 to go back to the display tank (there should be about 13' of head) and then a SCWD. Both returns are through the overflows via 1" bulkheads. <<Okay...trying to get my head around this. You have two 1.5" drains going in to sump #1, which then drains through a single 1.5" throughput to sump #2. Sump #1 returns water to the tank via the Quiet One 6000 pump, and sump #2 returns water to the tank via a MagDrive pump. I think this is a balancing act that will end in disaster sooner or later. Do reconsider having sump #2 return water back to sump #1 rather than back to the tank. This way you need only work with "one" pump to set water flow/primary sump levels. It will be impossible to balance the two pumps to each other on a continuing basis>> I chose to use the Rubbermaid as an "intermediate" sump so that I could use an external pump as a main circulator (heat issues with submersibles) without having to drill my 75. <<Should be fine>> It also allows for a short return path on one pump while allowing the versatility of a basement sump. <<Do think about my previous comments re>> I have filled the system with tap water and am testing using a Mag 9.5 in the basement sump for now, and the aforementioned Quiet One 6000, and have been playing around with Durso/Stedman type standpipes to quiet things down. It looks like things should work out except, the Pentair pump is pretty far from being QUIET and will have to be replaced since it is far too noisy in my living room. <<Yes, have heard this before about this/these pumps>> I have contacted Pentair in this regard and am waiting to hear back but, alas, I think I will have to get a different pump. <<Agreed>> So, after finding a few reviews, I am considering a Pan World 200PS (which I think is the same, more or less, as the Blue Line HD70). <<Yes>> They seem to be sort of a knock-off of an Iwaki, only quieter (but quiet enough?) and more affordable. <<Not "seem to be"...is... Though neither stands up to a "Japanese motored" Iwaki in my opinion. I have seen Japanese motored Iwaki 100s that you almost had to put your hand on to determine they were running. But that said, I know reefers who swear by the Pan World and Blue Line pumps...though I think just about anything is going to be "noticeable" in your living room...to some degree>> Does anyone there have an opinion on this pump or have suggestions on another 'in-stand/in-the-living room pump'? <<GRI (Gorman-Rupp Industries) produces "relatively" quiet and powerful pumps of good quality. The GRI-520 would be a good replacement for the Quiet One 6000. But the Pan World/Blue Line are cheaper (quality and price) alternatives>> I've looked at some reviews for Gen-x/Mak which suggest they are loud, and the Dolphins seem too big. <<Agreed>> Poseidon is rated as almost silent but may not be big enough. Sequence may also be an option, but are these last two magnetic drive? <<Direct drive I believe...and though quiet (or quieter, maybe), I have heard of heat problems with these last two pumps>> Is direct-drive inherently quieter than magnetic drive? <<No...but should handle head pressure better>> Would this present a problem with salt creep through the seals? <<Would depend on the quality of the pump I think, but if designed for saltwater use...probably not>> It's a lot of questions, I know, but I am not really sure how quiet I can expect a pump to be, since my last reef used powerheads for circulation and I don't have experience with external pumps other than the unfortunate not-so-Quiet One 6000. <<Understood...I had the same problem when I built my in-wall display in my living room. I ended up opting for a smallish submerged model return pump (Mag 12), and am utilizing Tunze Stream pumps for circulation. The couple degrees temp increase from the submerged pumps can usually be handled quite easily with small fans positioned to blow across the surface of the water in your tank/sumps...and 12v "computer" fans are virtually silent>> Thank You For Any Insight You Can Provide; <<I hope it has been helpful, EricR>> John T. P.S.: If you think this is an expensive hobby, I live on the Canadian side of Lake Ontario. Prices from suppliers up here are nearly double what they are in the U.S. <<Yes, have heard this>> And, Big Als won't take the Quiet One back, so I'll have to E-Bay it, in which case, "it's a great pump and anyone would be happy with it!" <<Mmm, buyer beware indeed! Regards, EricR>> Quiet Return Pumps? II - 04/24/06 Eric; <<Hello John>> Thank you for getting back so quick. <<Quite welcome...sometimes you just hit it lucky <G> >> Anyway, the two sumps, I feel, should work okay since, just like the display, sump #1's water level is controlled by the height of the standpipe of the bulkhead, so long as the pump in sump#2 is sized so as not to overwhelm the single 1.5 inch drain between sump #1 and #2. I can, in fact, shut down either pump with no adverse consequences. <<Really? Shutting down the pump in sump #2 doesn't result in that sump overflowing due to input from sump #1? Guess I must be missing something in the translation here...>> But, that may be irrelevant anyway, since it seems there is no pump that would be quiet enough that I would care to have it in the living-room (your opinion matches up with the on-line research I was doing since Friday. One member on "Reef Central" describes using a "Pan World" pump, which was relatively quiet, and then building a box around it with sound deadener!). <<Ha, indeed! I recall reading that as well...must read "between the lines" here, eh?>> So, I am now planning to run all drainage down to the basement sump where pump noise is less of an issue. <<Probably your "best" option mate...sure wish I had a basement for such>> If I can't get the flow I want due to the added head loss, I'll use the "Tunze Streams" as you did, or perhaps a Wave-2-K. <<Maybe one of the larger Sequence or Dolphin pressure pumps on a closed-loop will "fit the bill" and allow you to keep pumps out of the tank>> As someone moving from a 90 gal. with H.O.B.s (which was very quiet) to a big system with a sump, I actually thought that there would be a suitable return pump somewhere. <<Mmm, yes...went down this road myself (upgraded from an 80 to a 375. Little did my wife know at the time...). I guess it becomes a matter of what you will tolerate, but even with the pumps enclosed under the tank, the external models just made too much noise if I was going to maintain any marital harmony. And to get the kind of flow I wanted for this big tank, using larger or multiple pumps was definitely out of the question. Thus...Mag Drives and Tunzes for me>> It's a funny thing, that, when beautiful in home tanks are described, not many talk about the pump-noise. <<I think many are not actually "in the living room", but rather relegated to basements, family, or fish rooms...for this very reason>> Or, that when using large plastic pipe, even with Dursos, it can still sound like "The Blue Man Group" in the men's room. <<Ah yes! Another of my concerns when folks talk about running a thousand and more gallons through the sump under their (living room) tank>> Maybe that will resolve itself when I have my larger pumps in and the drains are closer to being at capacity, as well as being routed to the basement. <<Hmm...depending on your plumbing configuration, you may find aspirating the drain lines beneficial>> Oh, I just thought of another question. I have been looking at the head-loss and bulkhead size calculators on Reef Central and was wondering: if one of the bulkhead drains from the displays overflow boxes would flow more if connected to a closed loop versus gravity draining to a sump (the second overflow still would drain to a sump and be returned by an in-sump pump)? <<Indeed yes...if hooked to a pump in a closed-loop configuration the drain will handle whatever the pump is rated to handle (assuming pipe diameters are within manufacturer guidelines)>> The only trouble I see with this would be that if I shut down the sump for maintenance, I would also lose flow to the closed loop since the tank level would drop below the overflows. <<This is true, the drain for the loop would need to be positioned such that it would not be starved for water. Perhaps extend it through the "side" of the overflow and cap with a bulkhead strainer>> I was thinking that if the pump is in a closed loop rather than drawing from a sump, the net-positive suction head would counter much of the head loss on the return, and the pump would flow closer to its theoretical maximum. Make sense or just silly? <<I've heard this "theory" from others...I even helped a friend plumb a chiller below his display tank using this line of thought. I must say, I think the result was/is overrated...best to size your pump with "all" the calculated head loss in my opinion>> Living and Learning in Reefdom; John T. <<EricR...also still living and learning>> Equipment/Pump Selection Quiet one 4000 vs. Mag 9.5 4/21/06 Hello crew, <Hello Anthony> It's been a while since I wrote - hope everything is well. <As good as it gets.> Anyway, I have a 75 gal tank with a 20 gal sump and a Mag 7 return pump passing through an Arctica 1/10 hp chiller. It seems that the output from my Sea-Swirl is less than the output from my Maxi-Jet 900 power head (230gph). I think that the chiller is the major bottle neck. <More than likely.> I'm planning to get a stronger return pump but can't decide between a Quiet One 4000 (50watts) or a Mag 9.5 (90 watts) with similar gph. I like the Quiet One for it's size and low wattage but concerned about the noise level some users are complaining about. (I want it at least close to the noise level of my mag 7) I also like it because there's a dial to control the flow rate. There are also complaints about re-starting the Quiet One. Are these concerns valid and is the Quiet One really quieter than the mag drives? <Yes, they are valid. Most people want to keep noise to a minimum if possible and conserve on electricity. If it were my choice I'd go with the Quiet One. It runs about 20 watts less giving you very close to the same flow rate and head pressure. I think they are a quieter pump than the Mags and I've never heard any complaints about the new models. Thanks, <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Anthony Is this a good pump? For ponds... not SW 4/20/06 Hi guys! I was in a store the other day and came across these pumps, an Aqua surge 3000, and an Aqua force (2000 GPH). They are both under the name, NurseryPro by Aquascape Designs. <A pond gear re-seller> Do you know if these are good pumps for a reef system? <Mmm, nope, but I doubt it. Likely there are metal components that you don't want seawater to come in contact with here> I am in the process of building a 72x24x22 tank (150 gallons) with a 50 gallon sump underneath. There is 5 2" holes drilled across the top of the back, three overflows and two returns. Would one of these pumps do the job for this system? If nothing else maybe i could use it for pumping out my town, since we are in the middle of a flood here in Manitoba:) Thanks again for your time, your advice is muchly appreciated!!!! Steve K <Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/pumpselmar.htm and the pertinent linked files at top. Bob Fenner> Chiller op. 4/18/06 Will I damage my chiller if I run it on a pump that is too small? I have an Arctica 1/4 chiller on a 300gph pump? I still cools really well <I don't believe you'll damage your chiller, but you may damage the pump. It may lose efficiency over time. Plus you won't be getting as much out of your equipment as you could. Just keep an eye on performance. Thanks Jen S.> Equipment/Overflows - 03/25/2006 Hey, <Hello> How are you doing? Anyway, I have a 55 gallon tank and I want to build a sump so I bought this over flow box https://www82.safesecureweb.com/webaquatics/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ACO75&Category_Code=WDF (if it doesn't appear it's at www.webaquatics.com in the filters, wet/dry filters then titled "Overflow Box for 75/125 Filter (Pro Clear)"). I was thinking of what pump I should get for this overflow, maybe a Mag 5? or a Rio 12HF? and if those two aren't the way to go then what pump do you suggest? Thanks for your time. <I'd ask that question to Web Aquatics or Pro Clear. There is not enough info present in the ad to suggest a pump size. James (Salty Dog)> Akbar Return Manifold, Pumps...General System Plumbing - 03/11/2006 I was reading up on this method to get better flow but just had a few specific questions. <As vague as possible, please.> I have an 80 gallon reef tank and I hate the powerheads. I have a return from my fuge that is probably pushing 250-300 gph. I want to build a closed loop system to eliminate the phs. <Do you want a true "closed loop", or simply a return loop?> My tank is not drilled but it has a piece of glass at the top of the tank under the canopy that I can rest items on. <Better things to "fix" this in place.> My idea is to build a loop system with 4- 6 outlets with a pump that is rated for around 1000 gph but not have the pump submersed under the water. Is this possible and what are the cons of this system. <Quite possible. This is my preferred method of returning water to the tank.> Also what pumps that are available would be the best choice for my idea. <A shorter list to say which aren't...> Thanks for all of your help and your knowledge is invaluable to us novice reefers. Thanks Dustin <It's a lot to read I know, but I would go through our FAQ's until it hurts. A lot of different angles to take into account, but once you understand what not to do, the what to do makes perfect sense. Have you read the Calfo article re this? Grabs some toothpicks, prop open those lids, and let the coffee flow. - Josh> Two Pumps on One Bulkhead? - 03/10/06 Hi Crew, <<Hi Tom>> Yet more questions for the pros as I plan a new 130G reef tank. <<Thanks...EricR here...not so much a "pro" as just wanting/willing to assist...offer up my perspective...>> I want to put a bulkhead in the rear panel of the tank, about 6-8" below the waterline, that will feed a circulation loop into a couple of SeaSwirl returns. <<A great idea.>> I need that bulkhead to feed two external pumps, on closed loop, with a combined pull of about 2000GPH. <<Mmm...ok...this 'could' work, though I would prefer to use a separate bulkhead (1") per pump. These "balancing acts" between two pumps can be problematic.>> I know a 1.5" bulkhead in an overflow is rated around 1600GPH with just a gravity feed, <<And not without problems.>> but do you think a 1.5" bulkhead will adequately feed 2000GPH to a couple of pumps pulling on it? <<Should do, yes...different hydro-dynamics at play here. Most any pump can/will "pull" its flow rate through its rated intake size (not to be confused with "sucking,", the pump must still be properly installed below water level so it is "flooded."). Is this making sense?>> In other words, what is the largest pump you know of that comfortably works with a 1.5" intake bulkhead feeding a closed loop? <<Any of them with an intake port up to 1 1/2" in size.>> A couple of local guys tell me it should be OK, but I would sure like to hear your view. <<Honestly, I don't like the idea...but that's only my/one opinion. I would prefer to match a single pump per bulkhead rather than guessing at how two pumps will perform on one bulkhead, whether one will "starve" the other, etc..>> I'm trying to halve the leak potential, and plumbing hanging off the back of the tank, by going with a single bulkhead to feed the pumps. <<Understood, and I'm not saying it won't work...but I do feel it is "false" economy.>> I'd also like to avoid 2" bulkhead and pipe (it's huge!) if I can. I'd like to run 1.5" PVC from the bulkhead to just above the pumps, then "T" to a couple of 1" pipes into these pumps that have 3/4" intake fittings. <<In theory, the 1 1/2" bulkhead should provide enough water to feed two 3/4" pump intakes. Might I suggest that you give this a try and let it run for a day/couple days under close observation to see how it performs...but leave your options open to add a second bulkhead if necessary. Let me know how it works out. Regards, EricR>> Thanks, Tom Two Pumps on One Bulkhead? II - 03/10/06 Eric, the tank builder cut the hole for a 2" bulkhead while I was debating...takes care of that dilemma. <<Mmm...reckon so...>> So the two pumps will still share a single bulkhead feed but at least it will be a very large one. <<Indeed!>> Related question, what's the absolute best way for me to insure a leak proof & relatively permanent seal on that 2" bulkhead? Silicone sealant on the gasket & threads? I don't plan on ever having to remove it, but I do have to place it against a wall. <<Silicone is the way to go, yes. No need to seal the threads, just run a smear/small bead around the perimeter of the hole under the gasket and tighten...let the silicone cure before adding water. The silicone won't "stick" to the bulkhead fitting, facilitating removal should it ever be necessary, but it will "seat" the gasket nicely providing the leak-proof seal you desire.>> Thanks, Tom <<Always a pleasure, EricR>> <Mmm, better to not have centrifugal pumps "pulling against each other, or other low pressure... RMF> Pump Question - 03/05/06 Hey Crew,<Ethan> I have an Amiracle 200 Wet to Dry Filter, do you know what size, and what type fittings I would need to use an external pump instead of having a submerged pump? <Have no idea, depends on the bulkhead fitting you are using, pump selection, etc. When you buy, any on-line dealer should be able to assist you in this regard.>Do external pumps seem to last longer than submerged pumps? <I think so.> I am trying to lower my tank temp and I think the pumps I have are playing role in my tank temp at 80. I have read Mr. Fenner's book and 80 seems to be a fine temp for my reef system. Ethan <James (Salty Dog)> Equipment/Pumps 3/3/06 Hello Crew, <Hello Ethan> Thanks again for all your help. <Welcome> As time goes by and I continue to be a marine aquarium hobbyist I learn more about the sea life and their limitations and equipment necessary to keep everything stable. It seems to never stop! I had 2 Rio pumps in my sump (one for return to the 120g tank, the other for the UV sterilizer) and I recently added a third for my new Aqua C protein skimmer, I slowly learned (maybe I neglected to notice) the water temp had increased to about 83-84 degrees due to the pumps generating a lot of heat (duh!). At the same time I had been battling a green hair algae problem, and needless to say the increased temp, killed the green algae (and 2 corals). The sudden increase in dead algae led to a nice white cloudiness to my tank and a strange clear film (and huge froth production by my skimmer). It was a fun week trying to figure it out. Anyway, I pulled one of the pumps from the sump and magically the temp is slowly coming down. The tank is now clear (MINUS THE GREEN ALGAE) yeah!!!!. My problem is that the return to the tank is now dependent on one Rio 2100 (692GPH) and my tank seems to need a bigger pump to have a better return, my return is running through my 8 watt UV sterilizer that should not exceed 1100GPH, what pump do you recommend to replace the Rio 2100 that will be greater than 692GPH but less than 1100GPH. <I'd go with one of the Mag Drives with the flow rate you require. James (Salty Dog)> Dr. M Tank/Sump/Plumbing 3/2/06 Hey guys, <Hello Christian.> Thanks for all the help lately. <Please help us by capping all your "i"s and the beginning of sentences.> I'm running a 55 gallon Tenecor acrylic tank with no sump, and I figured it's about time I added a sump. I'm thinking about 20 gallons directly below the tank, drilling a hole near the top of the 55 for the plumbing intake, installing a bulkhead/with strainer and running pvc down to the sump. For the return, I was thinking of two "U" tubes on either side of the aquarium so I can get rid of the unsightly powerheads. My questions are: how do standard bulkheads form a seal within the aquarium, is it a gasket idea, or will I need to break out the silicone/epoxy? <They are gasket sealed and work well.> Will MaxiJet 1200s powering the return lines provide enough power to give me a nice current in the tank (about 4 feet head max)? <With powerheads you will get a significant drop in flow rate with this much head. I suggest one of the MagDrive pumps with 700-800 gph. Forget the "U" tubes, use bulkhead fittings for the return water also, much nicer setup. Is it alright to just run my AquaC Remora in the sump? <Sure.> Thanks <You're welcome. In future queries, please do a grammar/spelling check before sending, saves us much time. James (Salty Dog)> Plumbing A Chiller And Skimmer Together - 03/01/06 Hello wet web, <<Hey Mike>> Here is another question for you. I'm trying to configure my chiller (1/5 JBJ Arctica) and my Skimmer (Bermuda BPS-150) to run on the same pump. <<Not the best of plans...in my opinion.>> The chiller is rated for 480/1320gph and the skimmer is rated for about 700/800gph. I would be using either the Mag-Drive 9.5 or the Hagen 70 which are both rated at about 950gph. <<Not big enough to run both. Were this me, I would use one of these pumps for EACH piece of equipment here.>> My question is, would I be able to run these two components on the same pump? <<Not recommended...even if it were large/powerful enough. Too much trouble to try to "balance" the flow...the skimmer more than the chiller will suffer for this.>> First I would have the pump pumping from the aquarium down to the chiller (4' below) and back up to the skimmer (4' back up). This would bring the gph down to about 750/800gph. Would this configuration work or will the skimmer slow the gph down too much for the chiller? <<Ah, ok...not what I was envisioning. I still don't think it's a "great" idea, but it would probably work. You may well find that you need to push more water through your chiller to optimize its performance than your skimmer can handle. If you find you need to change things around later it shouldn't be a difficult fix so...why not...give it a try. Do make sure the pump is pulling raw water from where it "enters" the sump from the overflow.>> Thanks for the help Mike <<Regards, EricR>> Equipment/Pumps/Iwaki Complaint - 2/28/2006 Hi guys (gals)! Peter here. <James on this side.> I just wanted to let you and other potential Iwaki pump purchasers know about my recent saga. <Shoot.> I purchased an MD-70 (Japanese motored) via Marine Depot. When I installed the pump, it was extremely loud - not vibration, but the fan on the back makes a very loud "whooshing" noise. <Typical.> The second my wife walked in from work, she said "what is that noise." The tank is in the other room, across the house. I removed it after maybe 2 hours of operation. I contacted Marine Depot who told me that once the pump has touched water, they can not accept it for return as Iwaki would not accept it back. He recommended that I contact Iwaki direct and find out if they would do a refund or exchange it for a smaller pump which would be quieter (in his words). So I contacted Iwaki and explained the situation. They said they would be more than happy to swap out the pump for a smaller model - I requested nothing for the difference in cost of the smaller pump. At this point I was very happy as I mailed off the pump. Then 2 weeks later, I call to check on the status. This is where it goes south. The gentleman says, "oh, it arrived last week, but I don't know if they've looked at it yet. Let me check and call you back." A few minutes later, I get a call and he tells me, well, the cord is shorter than it was when originally sold, and thus, they can not accept the pump back. <Some companies do have strict policies as sad as it may be.> Now those of you who have researched the Japanese motored Iwaki pumps know that they do not come with a plug on the cord. So when I received the pump, I went to Lowe's and bought a plug (with cord) to attach. I cut the cord on the pump maybe 8-12 inches in order to avoid having 3 feet of excess - as I think anyone would do? There was still a good 2 feet of slack on the pump cord. Now they say that because the cord is shorter, that they can not resell it and thus can not accept it back. Why don't they put a cord on the darned thing to begin with if they don't want people altering it? IT'S A $5 CORD, HOW HARD IS IT TO ATTACH A NEW CORD? It's a $300 pump, you would think that something this simple would be nothing compared to customer satisfaction. I guess that doesn't matter any more. After all of the good things I heard here about Iwaki and their pumps, I must say I completely disagree. They may last a long time, but they are by no means quiet (by any definition of the word) and their customer support is terrible. Sorry for my rant, but I think others should be aware of what they are getting into. As for WWM - The site is great and here, customer service is top priority (and we don't even pay anything for it). PRICELESS <Peter, thank you for the kind words, about us anyway. I'm sure Mr. Fenner will post this on the Wet Web. Will serve as a warning to Iwaki pump buyers not to alter the unit in any way so as to protect the warranty and/or exchange privileges. <James (Salty Dog)> Best regards, Peter Flow rates for my chiller... pump sel. in the UK 2/7/06 Good evening crew, <Paul> I wonder if you could help me? I have just re-set up my tank and i have installed my Aqua medic titan 1500 chiller about 15' away from my tank, (it's in a cupboard under the stairs). <I see> The pump that i am using is an Eheim 1262 to send the water from the sump and then back to the tank which is above the sump, so the water has to go 30' in total and then up 5' to go back into the tank, to be honest i don't think that the Eheim can handle the flow required to make the chiller work properly. <Yikes...> When i switch the chiller on the digital temp gauge starts to go up and not down, so i turn it off after a couple of minutes, could you recommend a stronger pump (i have been looking at the mag pumps on the American sites), or the other alternative is to get a chiller that works on a slower flow, what do you guys think? All the best Paul, England <You do need a fluid-moving pump of greater pressure/flow characteristic. Am unfamiliar with what stockists in your country have (in 50 hz, 220 V)... but would look at performance curves re the run and head you state, bring information with you re the fitting, plumbing diameter for all, and ask various opinions there. More than about 5-10 turns (total volume) per hour become "not worth" the effort here. Bob Fenner> Flow Rate/Back-Pressure Issues - 02/06/06 I have never really gotten the performance I expected from my two Sequence 3600 pumps. Based on distance, I calculate no more than 8 or 9 head of resistance which should get me at least 1200 GPH per pump. I'm lucky to get 25 percent of that. <<Hmm, maximum head height (the point at which flow is reduced to zero) is 12 feet for this pump...and you're awfully close.>> The manufacturer suggests the biggest problem is the 1.5" output from the pumps is immediately "Teed" to two 3/4" return lines. <<Ah yes! This pump is designed for high "volume" but does not seemingly deal well with back-pressure. Teeing and reducing the line like you have done will reduce flow greatly.>> Would the fact that the return lines travel about 5 feet across to the bottom of the prefilter box (and then proceed up another 3 feet), cause such a tremendous decrease in flow rate? <<The added friction/pressure from the reduced diameter will inhibit flow, yes.>> Does going from 1.5" line to two 3/4" lines do that? <<Absolutely...if the pump can't overcome the back-pressure to keep up the flow.>> Would there be any benefit in putting the "T" after the five feet of diagonal travel over to the bottom of the prefilter box so that it will stay at a 1.5" line until it enters the bottom of the tank? <<This would help, yes. "How much" will only be determined by giving it a try.>> Unfortunately, there is no possibility I can run 1.5" line into the tank as the holes are not big enough and there is no room to expand them. <<Mmm...I imagine this was one of the so called "reef ready" tanks/installations. EricR>> Re: Flow Rate/Back-Pressure Issues - 02/06/06 Thanks, you have confirmed my fears. <<Welcome>> I will consider a pressurized pump that might be able to fight the back resistance, but the problem is the ones I have looked at are two big (bulky) for my current set up. <<Mmm, have you tried looking at the GRI pumps (Gorman Rupp Industries)? The model 520 is quite compact and would likely fill the bill.>> Live and learn. (By the way this was a "reef-ready" set-up from a well known aquarium manufacturer. Their tank itself is fine but there engineering of the plumbing has proven to be questionable). <<Ah yes, and this is not limited to a few. Most all manufactured "reef ready" setups have throughputs that are not suited/sized to the purpose implied. Regards, EricR>> Jeffrey GRI Pump Info - 02/07/06 I checked out the Gorman Rupp website but could not locate the GRI 520 although I found it on a supplier's website. I will try to get more information, especially about its size. Thanks. <<According to the info here: http://www.gripumps.com/pdfs/MAG_11.pdf The pump's overall dimension is 10 1/16" x 5 7/16"...EricR>> GRI Pump Info II - 02/08/06 Thanks a lot, might still be too big, but I'll check my sump again. <<Hope it works out, EricR>> Jeffrey Pump for a 120 gal 2/3/06 Hi WWM Crew! I have recently set up a 120 gal, which you have already answered some questions for me. I have a Mag 12 as a return pump plumbed with 3/4" flex hose into a tee up to the two bulkheads which are also 3/4" about 3 feet above the pump. I understand that if I use 1" tubing instead of the 3/4" I will get more flow but will it be enough. <For?> The overflows for this tank are rated at 1200 gph total. Right now it seems like I'm not anywhere near that because I have a lot of dead areas in the tank and I really don't want to add powerheads because of the unsightly cords. One LFS said that the mag 12 should be more than enough for this tank but I'm starting to doubt it! I have about 120 lbs of live rock and about 80 lbs more to add from my 55 gal that I'm upgrading from. I've moved some xenia and some small zoas in the tank so far and right now I'm starting to get some brown slime. Not sure if it's diatoms or Cyano. <Or possibly both and others...> pH is 8.4, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 10, SG 1.026. alk 11 dKH, calcium 420, and temp 80. This is where the flow of the mag 12 concerns me. So should I move up to a larger pump and if so what do you recommend? <... my understanding is that the Mag 12 has 3/4" fittings... increasing the plumbing diameter will not grant you more flow... however, increasing the number of discharges, will... and possibly reducing their discharge point diameters will increase circulation... Have you read re "Closed Loop" systems? Here on WWM: http://wetwebmedia.com/pbh2oret.htm and the linked files above...> Also, will it help with the brown slime I'm getting? <More circulation, aeration will reduce these, yes> I'm also running a refugium in the sump with Chaetomorpha and reverse lighting. I've cut back the main lighting from 12 to 8 hours a day but that doesn't really seem to make a difference. I never figured with the tank parameters and using RO/DI water that I would have these problems.....that's why I was wondering if it was just a flow problem. <Definitely a factor> The 55 gal I set up a year ago never had these problems and I used tap water! Go figure! Any help here would be appreciated! Thanks guys and/or gals, Mark <You may have need/use for another or larger pump here... Twenty times "actual" volume turnover per hour is not too much. Bob Fenner> Re: Pump for a 120 gal 2/7/06 Hi Bob, Thanks for the fast response! I've added a couple of powerheads, temporarily, until the mag 24 I ordered comes in. After just a couple of days the brown stuff seems to have disappeared with more flow. <Ah, good> I figure the mag 24 should provide sufficient flow from the two returns with four nozzles aimed at different areas of the tank. I am also putting a gate valve on the pumps outlet just in case I need to restrict the flow a little! <A good idea... and possibly a union that you can "break" should you need/want to remove this pump from service in-between. Bob Fenner> Have a great night! Mark Tank Temp with stronger Pump 2/1/06 Dear WWM Crew, <Glenn> I hate to bother you folks with my questions, but I've been unable to find the data I'm looking for. My 75G Reef tank with LR & DSB has a single custom overflow. <Much better to have two...> The bulkhead is drilled in the back of the glass. This runs down the back and into the stand and into a 20G long sump/fuge. The return pump is a RIO 2100. With this, pump, a Mag 7(Remora), a Tunze 6060 , 2 Maxi Jet 1200's, heater, 4 HO T5 lights and 1 NO actinic bulb, the tank can reach 82F+ in a room at 75 - 78F. This is with only two hood fans to suck air through the back of the canopy and out the side. I would like to add a Gravity powered skimmer to the input chamber of my sump. <... have never seen one of these> I have the skimmer, but it will require more flow in order to work. That or a strong air pump and Lime Stone. Since my over flow cannot handle much more than 450 gph, I plan on redirecting some of the flow from a new return pump (Mag 9.5) to the skimmer. This plus what comes from the tank should be about 800 GPH. My concern is with the extra heat from the Mag 9.5(90W). The RIO 2100 runs at 25 Watts and I can keep my tank about 80 during the summer with a fan blowing on the sump. I'm afraid the Mag may be too much. I would have to tear down my reef to pull the sump out and drill it for an external pump. I would rather not do that. Question 1: Is there any data available that shows how much heat a specific pump raises water temperature in a given volume of water? <Mmm, only general, subjective as far as I know... though some inference can be made from Steven Pro's most recent CA article (on WWM) re pump efficiency... more watts consumed, more heat> Question 2: While searching your site for this data, I found a thread where someone asked how to run a cooler and quieter reef. You suggested placing the pump on insulating foam. Can that be safely used in the tank, or was it for external pumps only? <External> Thanks, Glenn <I would trade the Rio 2100 in here... read re "Pump Selection" FAQs on WWM. Bob Fenner> Re: Tank Temp with stronger Pump 2/2/06 Bob, <Glenn> Thanks for the reply. I agree two over-flows would be better, but I'll make sure I do that next time. I've placed some protection around it to prevent it from getting blocked. As for the Gravity skimmer, I think the proper term is Downdraft skimmer. <Oh, yes... the ETSS term> The skimmer sits in the sump. It is connected to the line from the tank's overflows and the bubbles for skimming are created by water flow from the main tank. I'll check Steven Pro's article. I do plan on replacing the RIO. The question is, Mag 7 or 9.5. I purchased the RIO before I knew they were prone to fail. <Yes, more than other makes> Not to mention it was the only internal pump that could push that much water up 4ft at my LFS. I can't fault them, they drilled my tank for free. Since the foam cannot be used in the tank to keep pump vibration noise down, what can? <... see WWM re...> Currently the RIO sits on its suction cups. The Mag's don't have those. An even if they did, the rubber breaks down over time. Thanks Again, Glenn <Other pumps, other technologies... Bob Fenner> Pump sizing - 01/24/06 Thank you in advance for your help. I have searched and searched for info on water flow, and it only confuses me more. I have a 45 gallon display tank and a 15 gallon refugium under the tank. I need to know what size pump I will need for proper water flow in my display tank. The following plumbing will be in place: From the pump to a T where the water splits between a return to the refugium and up to the tank. Once at the back of the tank there will be another T that splits the return to left and right sides of the tank. On each side of the tank there will be a vertical spray bar to disperse the water evenly across the tank. There will be 1 union, 9 90 deg and 1 ball valve. The vertical spray bars each have 8 holes. From what I understand, I need about 180 gph through my tank. <Ideally you would want 450 gph of circulation. With the T's and 90's we have to calculate flow loss.> What size pump will be enough to push the water through 1" plumbing up through to the spray bars and still have enough pressure to push water down to the bottom of the tank? I've posted a link with a flow calculator you can use. Keep in mind that after the calculations are done we want to end up with approximately 450 gph. James (Salty Dog)> I apologize if this is confusing. <No problems.> Thank You again. <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Juan Quest For Silence - 01/22/06 Hi WWM crew! <<Hello!...EricR here this morning.>> I am continuing on my quest for a silent tank, and the current problem is that my pump is really loud, and I am very sound sensitive. <<Mmm, so is my wife...and I experienced similar problems when I installed my 375 gallon reef tank.>> The tank is setup in the living room, so we hear noise from it constantly. <<Ah yes, I can sympathize. Mine too is in the living room...originally drowned out the television...the Mrs. was not pleased.>> We got all other noises reduced, so the pump is the last item to fix, noise level wise. <<Excellent, so let's see what we can do about the pump...>> We have a 75 gallon tank, which is currently being run with a sump setup, and a RIO 14 HF. <<Hmm, these pumps a generally "fairly" quiet considering their cost, but there are better choices for a return pump in my opinion.>> The vibration noise is very significant. We lined the cabinet and the sump pump chamber with soundproofing, but it just muffled the noise, it is still quite loud. <<Yes...you need to "dampen" the vibration. Try placing some "spongy" material under the pump for it to rest on. Perhaps a piece of filter sponge like that used in pond filters...or even an old "mouse pad." Depending on your plumbing, adding a short section of flexible tubing (input and output) can reduce vibrations transmitted to other components of the system.>> Is there another pump that is quieter that would match the flow of this one? <<The Mag-Drive series of pumps may work for you (is what I use): http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_powerheads_pumps_danner_mag_drive_supreme.asp?CartId= >> Should I switch to an external pump? (not even sure if I can with my sump) <<Not necessarily>> I was looking at "Quiet ones", and Velocity pumps (but then I might have a heat problem) and Iwaki or Eheim, but I have heard the latter two can be noisy also.... <<The latter two are great pumps...I have been standing next to some Iwaki pumps that you had to put your hand on them to tell they were running...and if a submersible Eheim would fit your flow requirements I believe you would be very satisfied with its performance too.>> Thanks for your input! - Sleepless in Alberta... <<Regards, EricR>> Total Flow Rate - 01/20/2006 I am thinking of getting a new return pump for my sump for power consumption reasons. I am considering a Quiet One 4000 or maybe the Iwaki 20RLXT (less heat transfer). The Iwaki pump produces a Flow Rate @ 4` Head: 540 GPH (840 GPH at the pump). I have a 90 gallon Rectangle Oceanic tank. I am aware of the 10X rule of thumb for reef aquariums but should I also consider my powerheads in the calc as well? <Yep.> In addition to the 540 GPH the Iwaki would produce at the tank I have two (2) powerheads. One is a Seio 620 which is a volume powerhead moving 620 GPH and a Max Jet 1200 which is a pressure powerhead moving 295 GPH. When you add it all up I will be moving 1455 GPH albeit 540 through the sump below. Do I need more flow - I do not want a Tsunami in my tank. <This should be fine. Now it's up to how you use it.> In my sump I have a phosphate reactor and a protein skimmer and some sponges at the gate to stop particulates. All biological filtration occurs in the main tank with 120 lbs of Live Sand and 100 lbs if live rock. The Iwaki and the Quiet One for that matter sips just 0.42 amps at 115V or 50watts which is the reason I am looking for a new pump as my current pump is a 180 watt power hog. <Whew! Good reason to change.> Needless to say I want to go with the smallest and most efficient pump that will still maintain the system. So what do you folks think? <I think you'll be fine.> Thanks again for this invaluable service. <Thank you for contributing to it!> Thanks Tom <You're welcome. - Josh> Water movement and heat problem 1/20/06 Hi crew, <Linda> I am trying to set up additional circulation for my reef tank and need advice. I'm trying to keep powerheads out of the tank because they seem to add a lot of heat. I'd prefer not to use a chiller because of noise and space. <Good reasons> Here's the situation: I have a 75gal Oceanic Reef tank. I have both 1" and 3/4" holes in overflow going into a 30 gal sump below with in-sump refugium. I have a Gen-X 40 pump returning from the sump, but can't have it on all the way because the overflow doesn't drain fast enough. <Yes> I had 3 powerheads in the main tank but have a real heat problem so took them out. I have 2 250W MH lights with 2 fans. I also have a PC light over refugium on reverse cycle and a fan over sump that runs full time. We built a PVC pipe system that we had planned to use with the sump return but haven't because of low flow. The PVC branches into 3 pipes that are spaced out across the back (one on each end and one in the middle). Each pipe hooks over the tank and then splits into two loc-line spouts, so there are 6 nozzles total. Our thought was to hook up another external pump to this and have it simply recirculate the water (intake to pump to return pipe system). However, when we did this - we hooked it up to a MAG 36 (my husband thought the bigger the better!). Well, it was TOO loud and the intake (2" PVC that came out over the back and down to the pump) seemed to not be enough. It also sounded like there was air that was increasing the noise. So, will our plan work? Is there a problem with air because of the intake going up and over the tank? <Not this... perhaps a leak in that line, or its placement (too near the surface)> ( my husband added a T at the top so I could clean the tube easier. There is a cap on it but that might be an issue.) <Definitely> Is the MAG 36 to big? Would a smaller pump be quieter? <Likely and yes> Is the brand Quiet Pump any good? <Mmm, is a good pump... initially... Very quiet, but "temperamental" in terms of long-use... tends to have its cooling through-put in the volute get clogged, leading to early death of the pump... Their use history has been... dismal> Should I chuck it all and deal with powerheads instead? HELP! Thanks, Linda B. <Mmm, I'd trade the existing pump in for something smaller/else (see WWM re pump selection) and fix the intake plumbing (do away with the Tee...). Bob Fenner> Inline pump questions 1/16/06 Hello again Crew- <Hello Brent> I want to upgrade my current Pondmaster Mag-Drive Model 7 unit (700 GPH) with a Pan World 100PX-X (1270GPH). Details for what I want to setup are below. Is there a difference in the amount of heat transferred to the water between these two pumps? <Not familiar with the Pan World.> And, can the Pan World (or other similar type pump) pass copepod/amphipod sized creatures without turning them into a puree? <You may lose a few but most should survive. I wouldn't expect many would enter the intake.> What are the advantages to these pumps (Pan World, Iwaki, Little Giant) in general? <As I mentioned, not familiar with Pan World. Iwaki's are a quieter and a little more energy efficient than the Little Giants. I think the Quiet One pumps are pretty energy efficient and quiet for their modest cost. The 4000 model puts out 1017 gph with a maximum 10' head and draws 50 watts. A similar Little Giant will draw 100 watts. I always look for the wattage draw when selecting a pump as the lower this is the less heat transfer there is.> Currently I have a 100 g. tank setup, but will soon be adding an additional 55 g. refugium tank. I want to use one pump acting as the return for both tanks, keeping the possibility of flooding to a minimum in the event of a power outage/pump failure. I will install a T-joint off the new pump (using a ball regulator for lower current in the refugium tank). Likewise, each tank will have an external overflow connected via a T-joint at my sump. <Better to run these individually.> I'm still not sure if I will make the two tanks sit at the same level or not. This and related topics will need to wait for another message. I'm glad you guys and gals are here to help!! <Well thank you. James (Salty Dog)> Thanx, <You're welcome.> Brenton, San Francisco SW Pump selection So the Aquarium move went pretty good, took about 3 hours to get it broken down and into a truck, then about 7 hours to get everything setup and acclimated. I have not hooked up the pump that this fellow was using, do people often use spa pumps for aquarium applications? <Yes... cheap, available, ignorance> It is an A.O Smith Century Lasar 3/4Hp spa motor. I am not sure if these things are safe to use with salt water. <They are not... and expensive to run continuously... I'd replace this with a 1/4 HP Sequence... Stat. BobF> All the Best, Gage By sequence you mean the brand? Like this one? http://www.keetonaqua.com/products.asp?product=4200PRM15 Those look fancy. Gage <Yes... if you can use this flow... sans as much head... it will "do" about what your current 3/4 does... for much less cost. Impressive. BobF> Filtration Hi Bob, <James with you today> I have a Pro Clear aquatics pro 200 that I am planning on running on a 75 to 100 gallon tank. I am planning on using a Mag drive 9.5 motor. Is this motor a good size choice? This is my first try at wet dry filtration. <Your wet/dry is capable of handling 900gph so your choice of the 950gph Mag Drive is good. James (Salty Dog)> Thanks in advance. <You're welcome> John Marine Water Flow Pump Selection Thanks Adam. <Sure.> About the pump? <The Iwaki is a quality pump and it will (depending on your overflows/plumbing) likely suffice for your tank. However your tank is over 200 gallons, and this will boot be sufficient flow (less than 10 times per hour). The tank should overturn at least 10x an hour, and I prefer 20+. Research a Closed Loop Systems on WetWebMedia or look into a product called "TUNZE streams."> Ed <Adam J.> Chiller Pump - 12/23/05 At present I am using a 1.25 HP Hailea Aquamedic chiller. <<Mmm...big chiller.>> Rate of flow is given as 1500 to 3500 l/h. I am using a 1260 Eheim rated at 2400 l/h, the inlet is pulling water from the main tank, and return is back to the main tank. As I have just purchased a Tunze TS24 kit, I would like to do the following, Remove the 1260 Eheim. I have a 1262 rated @ 3400 l/h in my sump as my return pump, I now wish to run the return flow through my chiller, before returning to the main tank. <<That's how mine is set up.>> As the chiller is next to the sump with very little head loss, I hope the 3400 l/h will not be a overkill, as the Eheim seems to give what it states. Your thoughts are most welcome. Alan <<I don't think you have anything to worry about. You will have "some" head loss if only due to friction/angles within the chiller. And even without such, the pump is within the rating for the chiller. Regards, Eric>> Chiller Pump - 12/25/05 My tank is around 890 L and the sump around 175 L. With the return pump rated at 3400 l/h, I expect less when running through the chiller. <<Yep>> Do you think the two Tunze Turbelle Stream 6100 pumps, Which can provide a flow rate from 4000 to 12000 l/h plus the return pump, Will provide enough flow for my fish only tank. <<Should be fine.>> I wish to provide the best conditions possible. <<Be sure to research your fish selections thoroughly...before purchase.>> Please advise if you think there are any further mod.s to be done. <<I have none, based on the information provided.>> Thank you for your time and knowledge, Alan <<I hope it has been of help, EricR>> Filtration, refugia, non-impeller pumps, oh my 12/21/05 Hi Mr. Fenner, <Justin> I've been looking over your site and am familiar with the general disappointment in the "Dynamic Aquaria" book by Adey/Loveland. I've been reading it since having finished your killer book, "Reef Invertebrates." I love yours, seriously, it is falling apart. <Glad and sad re> I'm just about to jump ship and give up completion of a system (40 gal tank, 12 gal sump, 20 gal cryptic refuge) I'm building (my second reef ever). The hang-up is this whole destruction of plankton issue. Adey (and a large population on the www) maintains that systems using non-impeller pumps are those with the greatest success. He even says that systems that use purely algal turf filters don't yellow the water when non-impeller pumps are used because an appropriate element in the planktonic column is present to eat the gelbstoff. <Mmm, this has not been my experience... all such scrubbers result in "yellow water"> That "element" is otherwise destroyed in a centrifugal pump. <Actually, surprisingly much "gets by" such centrifugal pumps> I've spent 13 hours so far with little to no luck sourcing bellows, discharge, and so on- style pumps. Nothing that will really work. Too noisy, too hokey, etc. Is this whole rumor that Tunze pumps are plankton friendly true since they use some sort of "propeller pump"? <Such gear is not yet "mainstream"...> I'm worried I'll not reach all of the potential with my tank using centrifugal pumps since my cryptic refugium will have to be below "deck" in the stand, and lots of the plankton will be macerated. Can the corals make use of shredded plankton like that? <Of a certainty, yes> Clams will filter and use the "destrozado" tissue too??? <Oh yes> Will Mandarins, gobies, etc. only go after whole living critters they see moving and crawling? <Mmm, no... not entirely... most all do learn to take their dead facsimile> Won't skimming just remove all of the plankton anyway, especially some of the very small larval stuff that corals could really use? <Yes, much more so than pump impellers> Perhaps If I siphon water into a blow and pour it into the tank that could provide some non-macerated food before it gets sucked into the plumbing. You can see I'm frustrated and bewildered by all of the information out there. It is almost too much! Anyway, Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas (or appropriate holiday as celebrated)! Thanks, Justin <I would not be dissuaded from try the impeller mechanism for moving water around in your system. The vast majority of Adey's ideas are good, workable. Bob Fenner> Re: Filtration, refugia, non-impeller pumps, oh my 12/21/05 Mr. Fenner, <Mr. Brewer> Thanks for the fast reply! So, I'll give the impellers as try and as light a skimming regimen (Tunze equipment) as I can get away with. Thanks very very much! Justin <Very welcome my friend. Bob Fenner> Pump for Chiller Hi Guys <Hello Wallace> Just had a question regarding chillers in for the aquarium (Its summer over here). I have a 5ft long tank, (approx 3ft deep, 2ft wide). Its basically a salt water reef and fish tank with live rock. During summer, I'm hitting max of 93F(34-35 degrees Celsius) , but usually hovering around 86F(30 degrees Celsius). I have a chiller (Resun CL450) but my question is, what type of pump should I use with this sort of chiller (as it didn't come with one)? Unfortunately I don't have the box that came with the chiller when I first bought it, but I don't remember a recommendation written on the box nonetheless. I'm sure that the water pump shouldn't be too fast or it won't chill the water enough or as efficient. And I'm sure the water pump shouldn't be too slow as it wont be chilling its maximum potential amount of water. Would you be able to help out here ? Is there a rough guide as to what how big the pump should be (how many liters/gallons per hour) the pump should be for this sort of tank? <Wallace, I can tell you that the chiller you have is designed to handle up to a 380 gallon tank. If I were in your position I'd probably use a large Eheim pump, or another brand with an equal pressure rating. I don't believe a regular power head will do the trick. One way to make sure you are not pumping the water too fast through the chiller is to use a digital thermometer and place the probe near the outlet to monitor the temperature of the chilled water. In a tank your size (225), I'd like to see around 2300gph of total circulation.> Thanks! <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Re: Pump for Chiller 12/20/2005 Hi James <Hello Wallace> Thanks for the advice!! <You're welcome> I am looking at the Eheim pumps, and they range from about 300l/h (79US g/hour) to about 2280l/h (602 US G/hr) .. would you suggest that I get a pump around the 300 / 600Liters/hour or higher towards the 1200/2280 liter / hr ? <I would go with the 600 gph. You can always throttle it down with a gate valve. I'm thinking your chiller is efficient enough to process that amount of water per hour. James (Salty Dog)> Thanks again! Return pump for Megaflow 12/13/05 I've got a 75 gallon drilled tank with the Megaflow setup. I'm new to the sump idea, and I've read just about everything I can get my hands on regarding this topic. But, I still have a question. I feel this is the type of question that I should know or have found an answer to, but it's always better to just ask than to guess and guess wrong ... My question refers to the return pump for the Megaflow. All Glass says that a 600gph flow can be achieved with a 2400gph pump at a 5-foot head. Maybe I'm dumb, but does this math make sense to you? Shouldn't the output from the sump back up to the tank be 600gph? If my reasoning is correct 600gph coming through the return would be the most you would want, or you'd either overflow the tank or have the pump in your sump running dry. Am I totally wrong with this observation? This feels like a dumb question to me, but maybe it's not. Do I need a pump capable of 2400gph at 5 feet, or do I need a pump whose output at five feet is 600gph or less? My apologies if this is a really dumb question; I'm probably overthinking this all. <Joe, no question is dumb, just the answers are. My calculations indicate that a 2400gph pump will require a minimum of a two inch diameter pipe to handle the rated flow. I don't know what the diameter of the pipe or hose is going to the pump, but this should help you out. Also keep in mind that the 2400 flow rate is an unobstructed rating measured right at the pump outlet, that is, no elbows, spray bars, flexible return lines etc. One elbow in the return line can reduce flow rate by up to 10%. It is always recommended to put a gate valve at the pump outlet so if the pump is a little too large for the system, you can control its output. I'd rather have a little larger pump than too small a pump. James (Salty Dog)> Thanks, <You're welcome and Happy Holidays to you.> Joe Schneider Aquabee Pumps / Where to order without taking on a second job. Hi guys, <Hi John.> Do you know of anywhere in the US that I could order a new Aquabee 2000/1 pump from? <Though it is not indicated on their American Website I believe you can order these from Deltec.> It's for my skimmer (DAS, basically like a Deltec) and the fit is pretty particular. <If I remember correctly these pumps are similarly sized and built like the Sedra Line of pumps, which are also needle-wheels.> The only vendor I've been able to find online is in Germany and shipping added 50% to the cost! <Ouch!> Thanks! <Welcome.> John. <Adam J.> <<I'm going to suggest contacting a U.S. retailer, too, such as customaquatic.com, see if maybe they can find or supply this pump for you. Marina>> Water flow and pump questions 11/24/05 I know that more flow is better, that random and turbulent is good vs. linear, etc. I currently have a 65 gal tank, plus 25 gal refugium. Flow is powered by a Mag 7, positioned in my sump with about a 4.5 foot lift, <Head> plus I have two smallish powerheads opposing each other in tank. Question: I also have a Mag 9 not being used--would this more powerful pump be too much for that sized tank? Thanks.....Barry <Mmm, I'd stick with what you have... Likely there is not much to be gained by running more water through your refugium. Cheers. Bob Fenner> 9-10 Foot Power Cord for Small Pump 11/17/05 I have a saltwater aquarium (cylinder shape) that is in the center of our spiral staircase and measures 8 feet tall and 4 feet in diameter. <Wowzah!> I would like to purchase a small pump (maybe Rio?) to submerge in the tank, mounted near the bottom to circulate water slightly around the bottom of the tank. <Mmm, I would investigate a bit more, look for a better-regarded manufacturer/line> I have good circulation at the top of the tank, but I feel there is stagnant water at the bottom and am concerned about high nitrates at the bottom of the tank. <Need to circulate all... including top to bottom... you might "tilt" your pump/discharges accordingly> Unfortunately, I have not been able to obtain a small pump with a power cord longer than 6 feet. Ideally, I would prefer a pump with a 9-10 feet power cord, but I would settle for one that has a 8 ft cord. Any suggestions or direction to a source of supply would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! Brett <Mmm, I would contact the manufacturers (by name) directly re... it isn't hard/impractical to splice an extension and make this water proof... but the companies actually making these units can/will make special orders (I'd get double the number you want and save the other set for back-up). Cheers, Bob Fenner> Re: 9-10 Foot Power Cord for Small Pump 11/17/05 Bob, <Brett> Thank you for your response to my question! I am impressed by your timeliness - I work at Toyota where providing the best Customer Support is ingrained in everything we do and I appreciate your quick response. <Ah, an excellent company all the way around... I grew up in Japan, visited "Toyoda" (not a mis-spelling for you browsers), and can remember how amazingly clean everything was... no buttons, watches on the employees (lest finishes be scratched)... all working together harmoniously... And have owned Toyotas (trucks mostly the 22R engines, wife has a Prius)... And what do they "run" the co. on? Capital! Not debt! How un-American... Forget "super-discounts"... Uhh, just make quality products, supply good svc.... am sure you would say about the same...> I will pursue the advice to contact the pump manufacturers directly for a custom length power cord. Do you have any contact info for pump manufacturers? <Mmm, yes... Can be found by the distributors names (Hagen in Canada, Aquarium Systems, TAAM-Rio...> Since you do not seem impressed with Rio, I would welcome any other names (phone numbers or websites) that I could pursue. Thank you again for your cooperation! Brett <Please make it known if you'd like help finding these. Out of time for now. Cheers, BobF> Replacing Sedra with? 11/12/2005 Hi I did a search but couldn't find it, I'm looking to replace my Sedra 3500 on my ER CS2-6 skimmer for something stronger other than the Sedra 5000 , any recommendations? Thanks <Yes... and I do wish Jeff and Bob Macare (the owners, managers of EuroReef) would have never changed... from the larger Eheim pumps... you can find these described on the Eheim site: http://eheim.com/. Bob Fenner> Pumping uphill 10/11/05 Thanks for the continued help. Making a 150 gal. with 2 x 1.5"- 2" overflows for FOWLR (trigger and snapper). All equipment will be located in basement on an elevated platform for ease of maint., will have about 11' -12' of head, what type of pump would you recommend? I've been looking at the Iwaki MD100RLT and the Dolphin 4700 Aqua Sea Amp Master, the Dolphin offers way more gph at that head, but is the quality equally as high? Would the returning water from either pump in a closed loop give me the necessary circulation without adding any other pumps, powerheads, etc.? <Mike choose a pump larger than what you actually need to compensate for your closed loop system. You can control the output with a gate valve. I'd check of the Gen-X pumps, they look pretty efficient as far as gph/watt. As far as the Iwaki/Dolphin choice...I know the Iwaki's are good pumps and not real familiar with Dolphin, but never heard any negative feedback about them. James (Salty Dog)> Water pump 9/20/05 Hi ! Knowledgeable people @ WWM <Hello Rich> I have an All-Glass 92 gal corner reef aquarium. About 60+ lb of live and base rock, fish, (too many), two yellow and one sailfin tang, two pajama cardinals, two yellow tail, one black white damsels, a Dottyback, one clown, lastly a cleaner wrasse. Filtration system, 2 Red Sea Ocean Clear canister filters Both filters have 25 micron filter cartridges, the pump a Pentair 3000 water pump (rated @ 780 gph), the PSI at the first filter is 4.5 and 3.5 at the second (18 watt UV). The head height is 4'. Had to run and buy one when the Quiet One gave out. The flow out of the head as not as much as I would like. Looked through the WWM FAQ pumps, to see if there was anything about the MD55, Gen-X or Coral Life Turbo Sea pumps, (they are rated about the same, between 1000 and 1200 gph) didn't find any ? or info on them, I have been looking at these pumps on the web. Before I buy I thought I would ask you knowledgeable people if you have heard or know anything about them. Or what size pump I would need and what you would recommend to give me 8-10X turnover. I am considering adding some corals, (after I lighten the fish load). <First, I would recommend a flow rate at the end of the return itself of 1200gph. My suggestion is look at various pumps that can produce that flow rate at a four foot head. Look at current consumption. The lower the current usually relates to less heat transfer. Most of the pumps out there are decent pumps. You have to decide how much you want to spend and go from there. I have heard good reports from the GenX line. Iwaki's are a good pump also but a little pricey. James (Salty Dog)> Regards Rich W Pump Head & Extra Returns 9/13/05 Hi Guys, <Hello Brad> How much head do you add when a second return is used? Presently we are looking at about 44" from the bottom of the sump to the top of the return. Berlin style filtration (no substrate) with L/R rubble in the 10 gal sump and 20 or so lbs in the display. <If you add another return line to the powerhead/pump your gph will drop close to half since we are now pumping water up two lines instead of one.> Also, is it possible to run two return pumps or do you think too much heat will be generated? I really would like to use 2 pumps in the event one goes down for reasons of safety and maintenance. <Are they pumps or powerheads? In a 20 gallon tank, powerheads should get you enough flow rate. The Eheim's work good in this application and generate very little heat. James (Salty Dog)> 20 gal, Dual .75 drains, " .50 returns, 10 gal sump Thanks. Brad Re: Pump Head & Extra Returns 9/13/05 Thanks for your prompt reply James! <You're welcome> <If you add another return line to the powerhead/pump your gph will drop close to half since we are now pumping water up two lines instead of one.> This is what I needed to know and it makes perfect sense. <Are they pumps or powerheads? In a 20 gallon tank, powerheads should get you enough flow rate. The Eheim's work good in this application and generate very little heat. James (Salty Dog)> Powerheads. I haven't purchased them yet as the second return left a question in my mind. I probably used the word pump incorrectly. "Pumps" being external and powerheads would refer to submersible pumps if I get the gist of what you are saying. Just so we are on the same page (my fault if we are not seeing how I'm the one asking the question) this tank has four bulkheads across the back. Two 3/4 (drain) and two 1/2 (return I'll give the Eheim's a hard look. <Keep in mind the Eheims are not cheap, but they last forever. I've had one in constant use for over 15 years and they do run cool and produce a good amount of pressure. If you are on a budget, I'd consider the Hagen's or Aquarium System's powerheads. James (Salty Dog)> Many thanks for the information and your valued advice. Brad Airlift-only return from refugium to display tank ? 8/16/05 Hello Crew... <John> Planning a re-entry into marine aquaria (successfully kept a pair of clowns alive for two years 77-79 back in the 'dark ages' of saltwater aquaria) and boy howdy ! Things sure have changed. <I'll say!> Based on my recent high-intensity research I have made some preliminary selections: 150 gallon display tank with 5 inch deep live sand bed. Some live rock. Primarily interested in inverts but I am sure SWMBO will also want to see a couple of fish swimming around. Two 1500 gph circulation pumps taking water from the display tank and immediately returning it through a closed loop manifold mounted under the top rim of the tank. Goal is to process 25-30 times the tank volume/hour to simulate real reef conditions. 40 gallon sump/Refugium mounted under the display tank (and hidden for aesthetic reasons fed by a pair of 1 inch overflow tubes. <Stop! I'd make these at least 1.5"> Split design with sump for skimmer, deep sand bed and macro algae (NOT Caulerpa). Also some live rock here for habitat but it is hopefully a no-predator zone. Protein skimming, heating and lighting are still up in limbo. <No worries... there is time> Now my question: I was wondering whether I can avoid using a pump to return the relatively low volume flowing through the Refugium (only 80GPH) by using 2-3 airlifts ? Hoping to stagger the pick-up depths of the airlifts and collect return water high, middle and bottom of the column in the Refugium desiring to return a variety of nano/micro critters to the display tank for feeding purposes. Since I'd like to have more filter-feeding inverts than actual fish I'm not too concerned that these teeny-tiny critters would be macerated by the relatively huge pump impeller as I am about how to collect them from different levels in the water column and thusly add to the diversity of food types presented to the inhabitants of the display tank. Thanks for taking the time to read this, and THANKS for all the great FAQs and articles on the site. John Bonnett <Welcome... Most all wee-life does pass relatively unscathed past centrifugal pumps... I don't think the airlifts will work... just not enough lift... unless the tank and refugium were just about even with each other in terms of water level... I encourage you to look into small, dependable "mini" pumps instead. Cheers, Bob Fenner> Flow question 8/4/05 I have a 180 gallon reef ready Oceanic tank with two overflows, each has a 1" and 3/4" bulkhead. I built a Durso standpipe to use in each overflow attached to the 1" bulkheads and each of the 3/4" bulkheads is fed by a mag drive 1200 pump. This has been up and running with no problem (no fish yet, still cycling) but when I told someone at the local fish store he said the flow from the mag pumps is too much and that the drains couldn't handle it. Well, it is handling it but I wondering if this is a disaster waiting to happen. If so beings I already have the pumps I would like to stick with them and perhaps convert the 3/4" bulkheads to drains as well. What are your thoughts? <Since the "Dursos" essentially act as siphons, they can handle much more flow than a standard drain. The problem is that any small obstruction (snail, algae, etc.) could back the drain up enough to cause a flood. If this was my tank, I would use all of the available holes as drains and plumb the returns over the back edge of the tank. Another option is to maintain a water level in the sump that is low enough that the pumps would run dry before the tank overflows, but this is often impractical.> BTW the pumps sit directly below the tank, one pump has about a 6' vertical rise while the other has a 6' vertical and 5' horizontal run. I'm not sure how much head pressure that creates and maybe makes the flow acceptable for my drains (i.e I'm not sure what the flow rate is for the mag drives with the amount of head pressure). D'Wayne <I am pretty sure that Mag-Drives are rated at 4' of head, so you probably are achieving close to the rated flow. Best Regards. AdamC.> Pump heat 8/3/05 Hello All, Quick question. I have an Iwaki 30 RLXT on a 50 g tank with a 10 g sump. What kind of heat does this pump add to the water? Thanks Michael <Mmm, some... can be appreciable in systems with high thermal retention (acrylic more than glass, ones without sumps, with covers...), but not likely trouble by itself. Bob Fenner> Sump pump and refugium questions 7/28/05 Bob, <Blundell here today. > I need to replace a pump on an ETSS protein skimmer. It sits next to a 25-30 gallon refugium under a 90 gal reef tank. The old pump was labeled CAP Beauty, 1800 l/hr. I have bought a Aquaclear 70 powerhead(400gal/h) but it doesn't seem to be as strong. Any thoughts? <I wonder what the head pressure loss is for the Aquaclear, and how that compares to the CAP? There really shouldn't be much just running a skimmer. My best advise is to check for a larger pump (sorry to say this after you've already purchased a pump). In my experience you really can't go to big so I'd check out a 800-900 gph pump. > Also, what maintenance for the refugium- 2" live sand/gravel with Caulerpa, I believe, opposite light cycle to tank. <No maintenance. Well okay, you do need to make sure that the inlet to return pump is clean and the drain line is effectively draining into the sump. Other than that, really refugia are worry free. > It overflows into the sump with skimmer. Any stirring, etc needed? <No, in fact I don't think I would recommend that. I'm not a big fan of stirring up a bunch of crap and having it blow around in your tank. I prefer to keep that all trapped in the sump. > ( I have read/heard differing views.) <Unfortunately any number of those views could be correct, so I guess do whatever makes sense to you. > Thanks. Jay < Blundell > Pump Selection And Overflow Box Modification - 06/28/05 Hello crew. <<Evening>> I am having a tougher time than I thought choosing a return pump for my 135G FOWLR. <<Let's see if I can help.>> I am gonna run a Marineland S.O.S. rated @600gph max. <<I always take manufacturer rated flows with a LARGE grain of salt...would suggest two of these if possible for redundancy/safety sake.>> Some pumps that I am interested in either come up a little short, or are too much flow. I am thinking it would be wise to go with the larger pump, and dialing it back if needed with a ball valve on the output. <<Using a pump rated at "less" flow than the overflow is not a bad thing (I hope this is not your only source of flow in this tank.)...and may just be a smart thing based on my earlier comment. It is also possible to "throttle back" a larger pump as you stated, but unless you will need the power/flow later on, why waste the money on the purchase/power consumption?>> Now, there seems to be two classes on most external pumps. Pressure pumps, and circulation pumps. <Yes>> Can either one of these be dialed back with a valve? <<They can be, yes. Though some direct-drive pressure pumps may suffer in the long-term from "excessive" back pressure.>> Can a pressure pump be used for wet/dry return? <<Sure, but I would suggest a circulation pump for this purpose for reasons of cost/power consumption/noise. Iwaki would get my first vote, GRI a strong second.>> Can I dial back a submersible pump with valve? <<Is what I do. Mag-drive pumps take this very well and provide good value/service in this role in my opinion.>> I suppose all it would do is make the pump think it is pushing at a higher head and not hurt it. <<Some pumps handle this better than others.>> Secondly, about my S.O.S. I have two of these at my disposal, and am thinking of modifying one. I do not know how familiar you are with these, but let me explain briefly. <<Have seen these.>> It does not have typical u-tubes. More like a flattened u-tube about 4 inches wide. Then it has two holes to go down to the sump. One is the main flow, the other is just in case the other fails. <<Mmm, not really. The second outlet is not for redundancy...you need both of the outlets to even get close to the "rated" flow.>> Here is what I am thinking. Replace the flat u-tube with two typical 1 1/8"OD u-tubes, and use both drain holes. Maybe then I could get more out of it. Something like 800-1000gph? <<Seriously doubt it...these devices are limited/risky by their design/function...it won't matter how "big" your u-tubes are, you're still limited by the drain size...just as in a gravity overflow. I wouldn't bother modifying the overflow. I would instead use two overflows and then shoot for the 800 gph between the two...much more peace of mind. Sooner or later a siphon overflow WILL fail.>> Do you have any comments on this, or things I should be aware of? <<Yep...as stated <G>.>> Thank you guys. <<Regards, Eric R.>> External return pump question Hi! I would like to buy an external pump for the return from the sump to replace my Quiet One 3000. I have a 90 gal reef tank with a 20 gal "plankton fuge". Since plankton production is the focus of my fuge I want to keep circulation in the 3x volume of the system range (giving about 12x fuge turnover). I intend to compensate this low circulation with the use of my Wave2K... When I bought the Quiet one pump I tough I could decide to run it externally, but have since then be advised against it and now does come the need to run cooler and go with external pump. Wrong purchase... Could you please recommend a good return pump for my system. I have read Anthony recommending Oase and Iwaki. <Both fine brands> My first thought was also Iwaki but the smallest Iwaki pump is stronger than what I wanted and it is supposedly not recommended to reduce the flow with a gate valve by more than 25%. <Good point> I gave a look at the OASE and they seem to be designed for ponds (from what I found so far). Most importantly, it needs to be very SILENT. Thanks in advance for you wise advice! Dominique <Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/pumpselmar.htm and on to the linked files above. Bob Fenner> Positive Pump Choice? (Pump Selection) Hi, <Hi there! Scott F. with you today!> I am setting up my new 107 gallon tank wanted to know 2 things what do you guys think of the NEW PanWorld 150PS-MD55R External Water Pump - 1100gph and would it be enough for my tank? Model 150PS - equal to Iwaki MD55 Pressure rated 1100gph max flow 28 foot max head pressure 180 watts 1" MPT in/out Footprint 5 x 12 Thanks for your response guys Marlon (Miami) <Well, Marlon, my understanding is that this pump is designed by a former Iwaki engineer, and if it's half as reliable and well-built as the Iwaki after which it seems to be designed, you should get years of great use out of it. As far as sufficient for your tank- it certainly can be, depending upon what you're demanding of it (i.e.; being the main system pump, powering accessories, etc.), and what parameters it is operating under (i.e.; how many feet of head, etc.). Sounds like it might be a good fit! Good luck! Regards, Scott F.> Positive About Pump Choice? Thank you so much for your prompt response, You guys are everything I was told and by far More. <Well, thanks for the kind words! Scott F. back here with you today!> I ran into another problem about pumps, My local fish store is straying me away from the pump I had asked about earlier and They are recommending a Submersible Mag Drive 1800 for my new 107 gallon setup. I am really confused. I do like the Price difference though!!! I need to know what to do please help me make a better decision (reef tank). Again thank you for sharing years of knowledge. Marlon <There is nothing fundamentally wrong with a submersible pump, Marlon. Probably my only real rap against them is that they are more likely to impart heat into the system than an external pump. Personally, I like external pumps for ease of access and maintenance, but submersible pumps are used by thousands of hobbyists on a continuous basis with plenty of good results. In the end, I'd get the pump that provides you with the performance that you need with minimal electrical consumption and maximum reliability. Hope this helps. Regards, Scott F.> Pumps For Maximum Performance Hello, <Hi there! Scott F. here today!> I am a frequent reader of your web site. It is great, thank you. <Glad that you enjoy it!> I have a question about pump selection. I have a 90 Gallon Oceanic tank with dual built in corner overflows. The return lines are 3/4" they are built into the overflows. The pipes dumping back into my sump are 1.5". Can you confirm their capacity. I'm estimating somewhere around 2400 GPH. <That's probably pretty close.> Also, can you tell me how much water I can pump up from my sump without having a water fall sound constantly back to the sump. Right now I'm pumping 500 GPH and it is very quiet. I'd like to keep the sound down. <Unfortunately, the only way to really answer that one is to play with your pump a bit. Trial and error is really the only way to determine this. Every system will react differently; every system has different acoustical characteristics, too...> Also, I'm looking at the Iwaki MD40RLXT which pumps 1200 gallons at 4' head. My stand is 30" and my tank is 24" so it is 4 1/2 feet. Is this the right size pump or should I be looking to go bigger, keeping noise as a concern? <I have used the Iwaki MD40RLT in the past. It's a pressure-rated pump (the RLXT is designed for circulation), but pushes about 750gph. I'd hardly call it "quiet", but it is a great, reliable pump! If you are pushing against significant head, I'd go for a pressure rated pump. In my experience, the Iwaki MD55 RLT is quieter than the '40, and it pushes around 1100gph. On my current system, I am using a Sequence Dart, which is an extremely powerful, very efficient, and amazingly quiet pump. I've been very pleased with this pump so far.> Also, it is 1" PVC pipe, can I convert this to two 3/4" returns without any problems? <I would not reduce the returns, myself.> Thanks for answering all of my questions. Brent <Hope you found this information useful! Regards, Scott F.> Pumping from A to B to C, does not equal... I have an AquaC 120 protein skimmer on my 90 gallon tank. I have a Mag 7 pump connected to it. It would not fit in our wet dry filter system so we put it in a separate tank. The wet dry uses a Mag 5 pump. Water from aquarium goes to wet dry and from there over to my skimmer and from the skimmer back to the aquarium. The problem is that the wet dry is always running so low on water that it is always sucking air. Do we need the same size of pumps for both the skimmer and the wet dry? <Uh, no... you need to install a good-sized (diameter) "equalizer line" (plumbing) twixt the two sumps... Don't rely on pumps/pumping to balance the flows here. Bob Fenner> Pump Sizing/Plumbing For A Teed Manifold - 05/21/05 Hello, <Hello Frank> I have a 135 gallon reef tank, currently running a Gen-X 1190 GPH return, and I have two 1-inch drains in the lower back of the system feeding into the sump. <Couple thoughts/opinions here Frank. First - Be careful not to overestimate what your drains can handle and plan accordingly. Many claim 600 gph for a 1" drain, and under ideal circumstances it will probably handle it (albeit noisily), but I've found that a "safe" flow rate for this size drain is about half of what's usually recommended. Be aware that flow will eventually start to restrict due to growth of algae and cryptic organisms within the opening/drain pipe. Second - You mention the drains are installed in the "lower" back. Unless you have some type of riser pipe/overflow box installed, your tank will drain to this point when the pump is off.> My question has multiple parts: 1) Is my Gen-X giving a sufficient rate of turnover to my tank in general, and is it powerful enough to give decent flow to a teed manifold with six or so outlets, enough that I can forget about power heads? <On its own, no, even before accounting for head loss. Some suggest a minimum of 10x total tank volume for flow, I feel more is better...20x plus. When figuring number/size of outlets for the manifold figure 400+ gph for each 1/2" outlet and 800+ gph for each 3/4" outlet on the manifold. Its my opinion your current pump would limit you to two 1/2" outlets on the manifold. With a proper pump/manifold design (much covered in the FAQs), yes, you will be able to forgo power heads.> 2) If not, what should I upgrade to and will this require additional holes cut in the tank for drainage? <Assuming six 1/2" outlets, you're looking at a pump in the 3000 gph range before head loss. As for your drainage holes, I would plumb the two 1" drains directly to the pump and create a "closed-loop with the manifold. You really don't want to try to push this volume of water through your sump. Add another 1" drain and plumb the MAG 5 for your sump return.> 3) I am running a 500 GPH Mag 5 (and plan to add a second Mag 5) inside the tank at the moment. Between this and the return pump am I giving respectable (I know it is not ideal) water turnover for the size of my system? <Could be made to work, though the manifold is a much better idea. Be sure to adjust all flow output to interact in a random turbulent fashion.> Lastly, I know the answer to this could potentially fit under multiple categories on your website, could you please post it under Plumbing 18 FAQ so I can find it easily. <I don't make the actual postings on the site, but be aware you get a reply returned directly back to you as well.> Much Appreciated, Frank Janes <Regards, Eric Russell> Tunze Stream/Eheim/Seio - 04/26/05 Hi, < Hello! > I am looking into buying pumps for circulation. < Always a good thing, 10x - 20x tank volume as a starting point please. > I am thing of buying either a Tunze or Eheim but I need to know which one is better between the two in the sense of reliability and life span of the pump? < You won't go wrong with either. Both are very well made, reliable, and quiet...though they are applied in different manners. > Does any one know how good the Seio pumps are? (reliability and life span) < Mixed reviews on the Seios. In comparison to the Tunze/Eheim, be assured you get what you pay for. > Thanks Mohamed. < You're welcome, Eric R. > Industry Contact Hello Bob, <Scott F. here today!> I came across your site while looking for the Rio brand manufacturer. Our company (micromark.com) is developing a product that requires the use of a miniature water pump to apply coolant in while machining metal. I can't seem to find the manufacturer anywhere. Do you have an address/phone number etc.? Or is there a US office/distributor? I would appreciate any help you can give me. Thanks. <Taam's address is: 5500 Adolfo Rd. Camarillo, CA 93012 (805)383-3565 Hopefully, they can be of assistance to you! Regards, Scott F.> Overflow and return pump Dear Bob, <James for vacationing Bob> I recently purchased a 110 gallon tall aquarium. This is going to be set-up as a FOWLR. The majority of biological filtration I plan on is live rock and sand. My question is with the sump. I have a 600GPH overflow and was wondering the size of the pump I should get. I'll probably have at least 4' of head, and I also want to maybe run a few returns. I was reading an article saying that if you want more returns to get a bigger pump. So with this in mind I was thinking of a Rio 3100 or a Mag 9.5. My question is how big? Any specific models are greatly appreciated. <Sam, with a 110 gallon tank, I would want a minimum of 1100 gph going through the system. Of course you can accomplish this by adding power heads along with your sump pump to make up the difference. With a 4' head you will lose a little over 50gph. The Mag 9.5 should work for you. I would put a ball valve on the output in case you need to cut the flow down should the overflow box not handle it. James (Salty Dog)> Jebo Pumps Hi Mr. Fenner <Tony> You seem to have a few people looking to source Jebo Pumps It would be appreciated if you pointed them in our direction we are importers selling these products in UK Europe and the US Would it be possible for us to have reciprocal links between our sites www.chrystella.co.uk Kind Regards Tony Smallwood Chrystella Chrystella House 18 Stratton Road Basingstoke RG21 3NZ Hampshire United Kingdom <Will gladly do. Bob Fenner> - Nanocube Pump - Hello! Here I am again needing help. Short and simple this time. The pump that came with my nanocube is very noisy, and each time we take it out to try and "fix" it, it becomes noisier. It is becoming intolerable. We have only had it for 3 weeks now. What would you recommend for a quieter ride? <One thing I might do is request a replacement for the pump from the folks you bought the pump from - if you've only had it for three weeks, then you're well within a reasonable return period.> I've read where someone replaced theirs with a MiniJet 606. <One of these would work fine.> Thank you. Lila <Cheers, J -- > - Sumps, Pumps, and Plumbing - Hello to all the staff at WWM! <Hello.> First off, MAD PROPS and HUGE THANK-YOUs to the entire crew! I wouldn't want to think what the hobby and industry would be like without you folks! Late in 2003, and early 2004 I spent some time building a very nice custom stand, canopy and sump for a planned 90 Gallon rig. In 2004, I was laid-off and my expensive project was put on hold and I settled myself by enjoying my then current 40gal tank. Recently, I moved from one state to another and destroyed the old 40 gallon tank before moving. However, all the life, rocks and some sand from that tank are currently living in my new home office in a Rubbermaid container awaiting their newer, nicer, roomier home. I figured it is only fair since I got one. At this point, I have 200 pd.s of very fine sand, have re-poly'd my tank and canopy, looked at integrating the 440W VHO light system into the canopy, have the custom sump leak-tested, have 88lbs of Tonga Kaelini LR curing in the garage (Thanks Walt and ReeferMadness.us!), and am currently in the ordering process for the tank (90 Gallon Acrylic). I posted some pictures in my user profile here of the rock on receipt. I also plan on adding pictures through-out the whole project. Anyways, I can't seem to get a solid opinion on the boards and I am at the scary part (for me) which is the plumbing and pump selection. This seems to be the hardest area to research in tank construction due to the overwhelming number of configurations. I was hoping someone might answer a few questions and tell me If I am on the right track. Ok, here goes! <Ok, I'm wearing my seat belt.> I have already purchased 2 -- 2.0" diameter bulkhead fittings for the tank output to the sump and 2 -- 1.5" return bulkhead fittings. In your opinion is this a little bit overkill for a 90 Gallon or is my planning sound in that I wanted to run 1000gph (quietly/ish) to the sump through the outputs and that I thought that the larger the size the better in terms of clogging, noise levels, etc? <It is a bit of overkill, but not something that will cause you trouble - just takes up real estate.> Due to the stand and sump design I created, I have now figured out that I will have to mount those fittings high up on the back pane of the aquarium as my sump does not allow much in terms of extra holding capacity (the internal walls are high relative to the total height of the exterior sump walls) and I don't want to take a chance of flooding. I won't make that mistake in design again but I still want to utilize the existing sump, darn it! It is, relative to the tank, at least, a high capacity sump (45 gallons filled) and I custom built it to the stand so that when the main door is open you will be looking at the refugium area of the sump. Considering this do you have any recommendations or suggestions for placement of the bulkheads on the back pane? <Evenly spaced along the back wall.> How close to the top can I safely go in the standard 1/2 Acrylic they use in 90 Gallons? <On acrylic, you'll be fine fairly close to the top - you do realize that with the two inch bulkheads, you'll have a noticeably low water level in the tank - the outer diameter of that bulkhead will determine its placement on the back wall, meaning the lowest part of the inner diameter will be almost three inches from the top... you may want to reconsider the use of these bulkheads.> Since I will have to use the back pane I planned on using a weir built around the strained bulkheads to control the maximum amount of water that can evacuate the tank. <Ahh yes... this would help, but how would this work with the returns?> Also, I plan on using an anti-siphon run in my return line in conjunction with check valves to avoid flooding! Does that sound pretty bullet-proof? <I'm not familiar with "an anti-siphon run"... but the check valves should help with this issue.> Did I mention I have a fear of flooding? <Think I noticed this theme, yes.> Besides the sump I also plan on building a closed loop incorporating a SCWD or similar on the system for circulation, so as to avoid powerheads and provide a higher turnover rate and a healthier environment for future denizens. Do you have any favorite devices in that arena? <SCQD is a fine device. SeaSwirls are also widely used but much more expensive.> Since I am at the point that I need to look at ordering the pumps, I had hoped for some further input. What 2 pumps (matched if possible) would you use to drive the 90 gallon system while achieving a 10x turnover in the sump (900+gph) and a 10x in the closed loop (900+) given that: A. The sump return would be pushing 2 1.5" diameter lines to the tank with each having at least 3 90's in them and the runs would be at least 4-5 feet. --Would that roughly equate to 11 to 12 feet of head pressure?-- <I think much less... 6-7 I think.> B. The closed loop would feature 3-4 1" lines with approximately the same number of 90's and length in runs. -17 to 18 feet of head?- <Think you're giving too much credit to those 90's - I won't deny that they are an impediment to direct flow, but I don't think they knock off even a foot for each bend.> Would 2 Iwaki 30RXLT or 2 Dolphin Ampmaster 3000's be appropriate? <The AmpMaster would be a significantly larger pump than the Iwakis. Depending on where this tank is placed in the house, you may prefer the AmpMaster for its quiet operation, but you could likely do fine with the 2100.> Would you use two different spec pumps? Do you have a favorite between those two or any other favorites with the newer manufacturers that might be a little less hefty in price? <Both are excellent, I use Iwaki pumps, but they run outside in the garage where I don't have to hear them. Have many friend who use the AmpMaster and am impressed by its silent operation... is supposed to be kind to your electric bill too.> Also, for pump output plumbing, where is the appropriate place to go up in size in pipe diameter to match the return bulkhead size if the outputs on the pump is smaller? (for example, say if 1.5" bulkheads and 1"output on pump)? <Right after the pump.> For the plumbing itself, should I use a ball or gate valve directly connected to the bulkheads or should I have a slip union between each plumbing device in the system? <Ball valves only - and slip unions everywhere there is a device you might want to remove from the chain for replacement or maintenance.> From what I have been able to research on my own (assuming a union between each) does the following sound ok? Tank Output side: strainer/tank bulkhead/union/ball or gate valve/union/pipe-run/sump Sump Output: strainer/sump bulkhead/union/pump/union/manifold or tee/return pipe-runs/union/check valve/union/ball or gate valve/union/tank return bulkhead <Unions around things like pumps, check valves... not so important directly after bulkheads unless you think the connected item might have to come out at some point in the future.> In closing, I want to thank you so very, very much for all the help and at the same time apologize for having so many questions on specifics. Having someone trusted, and willing to answer some questions is so very appreciated. I promise to continue to buy at least one of each book! Thanks so much! The Drunken Monkey <Cheers, J -- > Heat in new tank, too high tech.? 7/14/05 Hi reef folks. <Howdy> I have some questions regarding heat transfer in my newly set up reef (no sand or living creatures yet). The tank; 180 gal. with 70gal. sump and 40 gal. refugium. Main return pump is Ampmaster 2100 that feeds a manifold above the perimeter of the tank with six T's. The second pump is a Super Ampmaster 4500(3600gal/h) running a closed loop manifold on the back wall of the tank. The third pump an Iwaki 40 hooked up to the sump goes into the refugium. I was running the 2100 and the 4500 for over 24 hours and was not running any skimmer(2), reactor nor the lights. I was confused to see that the water seemed quite warm. I put digital heater in the tank to check the temperature. I was 78. Now, can a these pumps be the cause of this heat? <Oh yes> Does friction in the pipes induce this heat? <Minimally> My ambient temp was 66 and goes no more than 70 because I live in the fog belt of Daly City Ca. I realized that I am going to need a chiller that can handle 300 gal. combined tanks. <Maybe... I would first look into using cooling fans> Which chiller brand, size and lowest power consumption would you recommend? <Mmm, can we step back a bit first here? What is the rationale of using two good-sized pumps for two separate manifolds? You might want to look into just one, larger, cooler pump... my pick? A Sequence model...> What are the pros and cons with an In line versus coil type? <Coil types are more gimmicks than real... and ugly to look at to boot> On a different subject. My sump has quite a bit of flow coming thru and I would like to make it a refugium of some sorts. What would be the ideal medium or animals? <This is posted on WWM> I was thinking an NNR at best, live rocks O.K?. <Could... a DSB w/o rock would be better here> And finally, What is your take on motorized union ball valve (they are all plastic)? Are they reliable and can they be connected to a my Octopus controller? <... Not a good idea... too much likelihood of failure... "More biology, less technology" needed here... study for now. Bob Fenner> |
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