Roger

One pump or two?   5/15/06 Hi Crew < Hello Adlai! > I am trying to plumb my new 120 gallon and wanted some advice before going down this path.  Taking your advice I swore that my next tank would be reef ready - no more dinking saltwater for me via J tubes. < I cant say I blame you a bit! > The tank has 2 overflows rated at 600 gph each so I expect 1200 gph approx into my sump. In ADDITION to sending water through the 2 returns which come with tank setup I also plan to draw water from the sump via a SCWD using a ViaAqua 2600 rated at 740 gph. This means I will have 4 returns (2 with the overflows and 2 with the SCWD) using the sump water. So I figured I needed approx a 1200 gph submersible to make allowances for head loss pressure etc. Since the drains are only rated at 1200 gph that is the maximum amount of water that will be coming in to the sump which is 12X24X14. The 2 returns can be powered by either 1 pump (any recommendations) or 2 separate pumps ( I have an Eheim 1260 and a ViaAqua 2600). In addition, another ViaAqua 2600 which is also in my sump, will be shooting water through a SCWD and 2 separate returns. In regards to the SCWD return, my thinking is that since the ViaAqua is rated at 740 gph, I expect about 50% of water flow because of the SCWD and the returns i.e. approx 370-400 gph of flow. < You are correct, the SCWD reduce the gph significantly. You may want to employ a larger pump to enjoy the benefits of the SCWD. 400-500 gph will be almost unnoticeable. Think about running the SCWD on a closed loop, with a pump rated for 1000-1200 gph. This can be done without drilling any more holes in the tank. When plumbing the SCWD, consider installing true union ball valves. This will allow you to shut off the water completely, and service the SCWD without losing too much water. Some people will have a secondary SCWD to switch out, while cleaning the first. > In regards to the regular returns , the Eheim I currently have is rated at 635 gph will give me about  50% water flow at a 5 foot head approx 320-400 gph. The other ViaAqua 2600 will give me about 350 gph at 5 ft head So when I add all 3 pumps in the sump I will be getting approx the 1200 gph which the returns are rated at.  Are there any flaws to this logic? < Three pumps in the sump may generate too much heat! > Am I not considering any potential challenges. Should I just use 1 submersible pump to send water back the 2 tank returns so that I will only have 2 pumps in the sump. < Think about running one pump for the return, rated at or near 800- 1000 gph. With the build-up of detritus and biological waste over time, the maximum water handling of the overflows will be reduced. It is better to be slightly underpowered in that regard. Also, if contact time is crucial in the effectiveness of the filtration methods employed in the sump, slower is better. Think of it this way... Let's say your job is to steal hubcaps. Would you be more successful on the freeway, or in a parking lot? > I hope this makes sense. < Makes sense to me! It is good to see planning and consideration! > Thanks in advance < You are very welcome. RichardB > Set-Up 2/Pumps/Circulation  - 05/05/2006 Hey everyone, <Hello Marc> I am looking to get an Iwaki pump to power a closed loop circulation system for my reef tank. I am looking at either the MD70 or MD40 pump for the job. The tank is 120 gallons and I have set the system up to return to the pump in the cabinet and back up to a manifold with four outlets ¾ inch each (I could plumb more in) approx 5 feet above the pump. My question is that there are two types of pumps that seem to be sold, a pressure pump and a circulation pump. What is the difference and is it as simple as picking the circulation model for this task or should I consider the pressure model for other benefits? <The circulation pump will be just fine.  The pressure models are used for protein skimmers and pressure filters where the water has to have some pressure behind it to operate these systems properly.> I am considering dropping some outlets down at the back and forcing water through various low flow areas to get the most complete flow. In doing this I assume it would generate more friction (increased pipe work) therefore more head and a higher pressure requirement? <Not enough where you would need a pressure pump.> Thanks for your time <You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)> Marc

Pump selections  9/6/06 Dear Mr. Fenner: <T Ruby> I am moving up in the reefing world and got a 75RR tank and will be using my old 20g long as a sump. I am a little confused on what pumps to use. I am hoping you can shed some light for me. I bought the MRC MR1 skimmer and the GenX PCX40 for the skimmer pump. I do not know what type of pump to consider for using as my return pump. My overflow is rated at 600gph and has 1" inlet and 1" drain <An important consideration... won't be able to handle this actual flow rate... Might consider re-drilling or having another through-put drilled... of larger diameter> and both are plumbed using 1" spa flex hose to the bulk heads in the bottom of the tank. You have any good suggestions on a return pump? <Yes... Read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/pumpselmar.htm and the linked files above> I was told to consider the Pan World pumps. Along with this, I would be in need of a 3rd external pump, I am planning on plumbing a closed loop for this system, I really hate the ugliness of powerheads in the tank. I will be using 1.25" PVC going up to a "T" then 1.25" going left and right off the "T" to 90 degree elbows. Then right at the elbows reduced down to 3/4" PVC running up to the top of the tank to a 90, then another 90 going down into the tank. This will be the same for the left side and right sides of the tank.. What type of pump would be able to push about 800-900gph at that head pressure?? <See the above...> If I do not do the closed loop, what do you think about the wave2k? <A worthwhile unit> would this replace a closed loop system? <Mmm, could> I am unsure if the wave2k will put flow through out the whole tank? <Would help...> Thanks for you help! <Do read "around" the linked files... on circulation... Bob Fenner>

Water Flow 30 Jun 2005 Hi I love this site and have been looking through some of the question and answers and decide to ask you guys myself.  I am in the process of planning on setting up a 95 gallon 36x24x25 gallon SPS and clam tank.  I was wondering on flow and what I should use to get the most flow and random flow as well.  I want to do this right the first time and not waste money.  What I take from reading is I need to get at least 10x turnover. <Yes> Should I get a sequence external dart pump or are there others out there that are better?  I also want to get random even flow for the corals, I guess the most natural flow.  I have read some about the Tunze system but seems a little pricey.  Would the closed loop or the manifold that I found on this site actually be random enough to put out the water at different times around the tank?  Or would the pump just continuously put out the same flow at all outlets at the same time?  Or should I go the expensive way and buy two 3/4 sea swirls and put them in the corners and get random flow that way?  Or maybe one 1" in one corner of the tank.  I appreciate any feedback you have on this problem.  Thanks <Mason, I would recommend the Aquarium Systems Maxi-Jet Natural Wavemaker System.  The model 1200 includes the timer and three 295 gph powerheads for $99.99.  Not too pricey and I think it would be adequate for your 95 gallon system.  Drs. Foster & Smith sells these kits.  James (Salty Dog)> Water flow in the Reef Tank - 10/24/05 I just wanted to say thank you, to everyone. <I'll say 'You're Welcome!' for everyone, Hello Aaron.> I purchased 2 Tunze stream pumps (6000's) and the multi-controller and I noticed a huge improvement in water quality.  <Yes water flow is important and the Tunze streams definitely are first class in delivering it.>  Now, I'm wondering if I should buy 2 more, or if they are strong enough for a 180 gallon tank?  <Depends on the livestock, for SPS you could definitely benefit from one or two more. Personally I'm a HUGE fan of lots of water flow in any kind of tank.>  I'm using a Little Giant with a manifold that splits the return, it's a LifeReef system, I believe the pump is rated at 1400 gph at 0 head, split and traveling from the sump, I probably see 300-400 on each side. If I added 2 more Tunze pumps (is it ton-ze or toonz?)...  <The latter I believe but don't quote me on it.>  would that be too much?  <I don't think so, though if you have a DSB it may be difficult to maintain with all this flow.>  I think the 6000's are 1850 gph at max flow, but the controller pulses them, which seems to be more beneficial, am I wrong here?  <No, turbulent water flow is better than linear water flow.>  If they run full blast all the time it makes swimming a bit problematic for the fishes.  <Yes but they will adjust. Even with all that water flow its nothing compared to the 'real' reef.>  I do keep some varieties of SPS corals, and they seem ok- I was just wondering if adding 2 more pumps would be too much? See, I figure if one pump is on at a time, and it pulses between 60 and 100% every 2 second, then after about 15 seconds the other pump comes on, I know it's not 1850x2 but it's really not just 1850 either is it, because a huge volume of water is moving towards the opposing pump as it switches on- ok,  <Having pumps face opposite each other is fine, it makes the water flow less "predictable' and more turbulent, a good thing.>  I'll stop, sorry, is 2 more too many?  <I don't think so.>  Thanks and have a good one! <You too!.> Thanks, <You're welcome.> Aaron <Adam J.> 

Can I pump water up from a basement sump to my tank? 7/29/04 Hi Crew, << Blundell here. >> I will be moving to my new house this Friday and I was looking forward to being able to setup a more accessible filtration system for my 180g reef tank.  My plan was to remove the cramped sump and refugium setup from my aquarium stand and to run the overflow and return lines through the floor to the basement, where I would keep a larger refugium.  After further consideration, I realize my return pump will have very little flow as a result of pumping to a 10'-12' head.  Do you have any recommendations for overcoming this obstacle -- aside from simply buying a larger (and much more expensive) pump? <<  Well I've seen people try to make a two stage set up for getting back up.  Basically one pump pumps up half way, then a second pump in that tank pumps up the rest.  I don't like this idea at all.  I would just buy a very nice external pump.  It is worth it, considering all the benefits you get from the sump in your basement. >> I am currently using a MAG 18 pump so, to keep approximately the same flow to the display tank, I have only found a MAG 36 or some very large pool-style pumps that would still provide at least 1,800 gph flow at 12' of head pressure.  Even at that, nearly 50% of the pump's potential flow will be lost as heat and I assume this will also provide additional shear damage to 'pods from my refugium.  << An external pump is the way to go, and I don't believe they will damage your pods.  They get sucked and blown through so fast that there really isn't time for damage. >> Do you have any suggestions for a good (not overly expensive) pump that would provide adequate flow at this height? << I don't, I would just check your LFS and look around. >> I have also considered using a pump similar to what I have to simply pump the refugium/sump water up one story to a sump in the tank stand.  The existing MAG 18 would then continue to provide return flow from this sump to the tank.  Although this would result in the same flow as I have today, the filtration flow (from the basement refugium & wet/dry) would be much less and I do not know if this would provide adequate filtration or oxygenation (since the skimmer would also be in the basement).  Managing two overflow systems could also increase the potential for leaks or floods. << Definitely, floods will happen. >> What do you suggest as the best approach to 2-story plumbing? << A good friend of mine has done the same thing.  His two options where to use two pumps at the bottom and pump all the way up, or buy one big pump.  He is very pleased with his decision to buy one big pump. >> Thank you for the help! --Greg <<  Blundell  >>

Goin' For The Flow! (Water Flow) Hello all, <Hi there! Scott F. with you tonight!> Your website is a great reference. <Glad you like it! We have a blast bringing it to you!> I am setting up a 75 All-Glass Aquarium with a built in overflow system.  The manufacturer wrote back to me advising that the overflow  system is rated for 600 gph.  Given it is traveling  approximately 3 feet up from the sump and I want to return the water through a PVC return manifold.  What GPH of a return pump should I buy 600, 800, 1000?  I am assuming the pump looses some pressure traveling up and  through a manifold system.  I was thinking of using a Iwaki pump, I hear these pumps are reliable and quiet. <I use Iwakis myself, and love 'em. They are not the absolute quietest pumps around, IMO- but they are insanely reliable, and move water very well. You might want to look into an Iwaki MD 40 or an MD55. You can always bleed off some of the flow if it's to much> Is the external pump a better idea than the submersed pump for the sump return?  Given the flow rate will be 600 gph, this is not enough for a reef.  What do you recommend to increase circulation  power heads, a submersed pump in the display or drill the back for a closed loop circulation system. <Ahh- a better idea still. Yes- you can use external powerheads, such as Geminis or Tunze Turbelles, or internal pumps, such as the new Tunze Stream pumps ($$$- but they ROCK!). Or- you could construct a closed loop or manifold, as you contemplate. Still another thought would be to use a Sea Swirl plumbed to your closed loop to oscillate the return to the tank...A million possibilities, only limited by your imagination, your budget, and your electric bill!> Last I am looking at the AquaC EV180 or the ETSS Reef devil protein skimmers.  Which one would you recommend for a 75G reef (40G long sump)? <Both are excellent, but I'd give the edge to the Aqua C for ease of use and maintenance> Thanks in advance for your help. <A pleasure! Regards, Scott F>

Powerheads Hi I would like to know how many powerheads I need to put in my 90g. that I am turning in a reef tank? Is the Power Sweep 228 a good product to use? Or do you have a better powerhead that I can use.                                    Thank You <Please see here re Powerhead number, placement and suggested models: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/powerhdfaqs.htm and the linked FAQs file above (in blue) on circulation. Bob Fenner>

Re: 75g Set-Up Steve, at the risk of driving you crazy, I had just a few quick (being the choice word) follow-up questions regarding the 75 AGA pumping which you have been helping me with. I've figured out the PVC around the top and outlets, but more regarding the pump selection. Using the Durso standpipe design for the normal AGA overflow (out), I will also use another standpipe for the 'in' in the AGA overflow, BUT also going 'out' of the tank to the sump. This should increase the standard AGA overflow from 750 gph to 1500 gph, correct? <I kind of lost you, but I think you should use both bulkhead fittings in the overflow box as drains. This should increase the amount of water your box is able to drain.> Both standpipes will lead to my 20 gallon sump with a Plexiglas partition in the middle (dirty side). My Mag-Drive 5 (or Dolphin DP-560. Is this a better pump?) <I don't have any experience with the Dolphins.> will pump water from the 'dirty side' of the sump into the Aqua-C EV 120 and discharge the protein skimmed water into the 'clean side' of the sump. Okay so far? <I would discharge back into the "dirty side" and use the partition to drive off excess bubbles.> I will fix a 1 1/2" bulkhead into the wall of the 'clean side' of the sump where 1 1/2" PVC pipe will lead to: A Mag 12 (you suggested) at 1200 gph. (I'm thinking that this will not be enough now.) OR A Dolphin AmpMaster 2100 (with 1 1/2" inlets and outlets - so it will fit the 1 1/2" PVC of the return pipe). <That is a pretty serious pump, about 2700 gph at zero head.> I was thinking that 20-30 times the 75 gallon tank per hour would be better for SPS/clams. At 20 times, that would be 1500 gph which would match my AGA overflow with the before mentioned changes of 2 Durso standpipes. If 2100 pump is too much I could even dial it back (which I understand can be done with the Dolphin AmpMaster pumps. <It would be better to T the return line and have a bleeder valve setup to recycle water back into the sump.> Otherwise I could place a turn valve on the exit or out of the pump - probably a good idea anyway if the pump ever fails. <At the risk of even more questions, let me suggest using two smaller pumps. I like to use two separate pumps so that in the event one pump breaks, the second one will get you by.> Thanks again (deja vu?), Andrew. <You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Bula from Fiji Bob! <Bula my friend> Tim McLeod of Walt Smith Int. suggested I email you with a question.... <Hello to Tim and Flower> We have an 800 gal display tank with a 1000 gal reservoir tank, so we circulate 1,800 gallons of salt water through the display. We are building a 400 gal tank in to the system in which we will grow mangrove and bonsai them (see http://www.fukubonsai.com/5a9.html It can be done!!!). <Yes> In this mangrove tank we plan to create an ecosystem and feed the nutrients & organisms in to the display tank to feed the corals. <Okay> This will require us pumping from the mangrove tank to the display tank. We are concerned that using impeller pumps will "mash" the live organisms we created and make the whole exercise pointless, however, we are having trouble finding diaphragm pumps that are a) electric b) salt proof c) continuous duty and d) rated at 400 to 600 gallons per hour. Do you think an impeller pump is out and where could we find the right diaphragm pump if impellers can't be used? <Actually not much of a problem. Some studies have been done which show less than 1% of crustaceans, worms die as a consequence of passing through paddle-wheel like impellers. Those critters are tough!> Appreciate any advice Bob and please come see us when you visit Fiji!! <Will do so Phil. Bob Fenner> Vinaka Phil Felstead Kula Eco Park P.O. Box 823 Sigatoka Fiji Islands Tel: (679) 650 0505 Fax: (679) 652 0202 Email: mitman@connect.com.fj Web Site: www.fijiwild.com

Re: pH decline, Demerits of Powerheads Friend Anthony <cheers, Bob> Thanks for the suggestions. I think that I will try first with the larger return pumps;  <excellent> I am a bit concerned about powerheads in the tank as I have read the many horror stories on the web site regarding animals sucked into the suction strainers. <yes... so many disadvantages to powerheads. Heat transfer, longevity, shock hazard, etc> Thank you for your patient advice. While very little in the way of compensation, please do accept that you provide a real service to the many out there like myself who labor mostly blindly.  <it is our pleasure and purpose but thank you for saying so, my friend> A little story: I started the marine aquarium as an ex-freshwater guy who liked the pretty saltwater fishes. After failing pretty miserably several years ago with a fish only tank, gave up completely. Read some more recent books, including Bob Fenner's, and noted with great interest the improvements in lighting, natural filtration and so on. Made the investment "one last try and then I quit!". Have now run the reef for about a year, having survived numerous close brushes with ignorance induced failure, but have dodged the bullet with the help of yourself and others dedicated to the trade and hobby. My greatest reward (and this should be for you as well, as a participant) is that now when the neighborhood children come over to our house, which is often as we have two boys 10 and 12, they all immediately go to the reef tank. These children, who can rarely stay still for more than 30 seconds, are immediately captivated in the mystery of the reef and I have seen them sit for over an hour in front of the display.  <outstanding.. indeed a huge goal for us all: education of people to higher awareness, admiration and respect for the environment> I have directed several to your site. The rewards of the keeping of aquariums are many, but this is the one that I find the most satisfying. My point in the story is that you provide the support that makes this possible, so I hope that you share the joy as well. Best Regards Bob <thanks kindly... best to you. Anthony>

Re: this is my problem and I don't know what to do. (Circulation) Anthony that's cool. One thing on the detritus though. I have 4 powerheads in the tank now. everything is on, I have 2 Rio 1400 and 2 Rio 800's each in its own corner of the tank, 3 inches from the water level.  <do reconsider the powerheads... they cause too much heat. If you have a sump, it is usually less expensive and more efficient to run one large recirculating pump than a small one with powerheads in the display. See diagram here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/plumbingmarart.htm> thing is, if I let the heads hit the bottom, the sand will float to the water column... what do you think I should do?  <the best with powerheads is usually to aim them opposite of each other to create random turbulent flow. Indeed... flow in one direction will stir up sand badly> the skimmer is in the sump and that I don't think the detritus "overflows" to the sump. <yes... a common problem. Do experiment with adjustments to the flow with the powerheads... aim them in different positions to reduce the chance of detritus accumulating> Francis. PS: ill check your website re your book ok.  <thanks kindly!> have you ever been in manila? <I have not yet had the pleasure but will look forward to it one day :) Best regards, Anthony>

Kalkwasser & Wavemaker Hi Anthony, I hope your doing well.  <with hopes that you are the same, my friend> I'm on a weeks vacation, so as usual I am fiddling with my tanks. I have two questions. (1) I still can't seem to get your Kalk slurry correct. (read your book instructions twice) On my 125 with 35G sump, If I use B-Ionic, I can keep my calcium in the 340-360 range at a DKH of 10 or 11.  <actually... that just about perfect if you choose to have the higher dKH (12 dKH max). Else, let your dKH fall towards 8-9 and let Ca climb to 400-425 ppm. It makes little difference either way. All is good if both are consistent and stable> However If I want to use Kalk and Seachem buffer, I can't seem to change the Calcium at all, it just keeps dropping until I go back to B-Ionic.  <have you checked to see that your magnesium isn't too low? It needs to be at least 1000ppm. Better perhaps around 1200ppm or a whisker higher. If you have low Magnesium... your not going to get high Ca. Mag should be about 3X Ca levels> Every day, in the AM I stir maybe 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon in 1 or 2 cups cold R/O water for about 20 seconds and add it to the sump. My PH goes up a little usually about 0.1, but the calcium doesn't seem to make it into solution, I don't see any precipitation) and if I measure a few hours later there seems to be no effect. Any ideas what I'm doing wrong. <hmmm... the AM is dangerous in the big picture for dosing unless your lights don't come on for 7-10 later. Kalk is always to be dosed at night right after lights go out> (2) I want to add current to my tanks starting with the 125. I looked at a wavemaker from Red Sea, but am leaning towards the Ocean currents Oscillator. My feeling is that I could put two oscillator into the tank attached to power heads. What do you think? <I think that all wavemakers are a complete waste of money. They wear pumps down and starve thanks to flow when pumps are staggered. Its best to run all pumps full time in convergence to produce random turbulent flow> Thanks Larry P.S. someone who owns a store close by and I believe to be very knowledgeable says he prefers to drip Kalk. He thinks the sudden increase in PH, or more accurately the sudden localized PH increase has a detrimental effect on the fish.  <dosed in a strong stream of water it is no worse many other aspects of husbandry. Serves the greater good for many> He thinks the Slurry you refer to is mainly for reef only systems or corals farmers.  <I think he must be a man that has never tried it before with a simple pH meter... OR... he has the patience of a saint for dripping and a tank with modest calcium needs (fish only). I also suspect that has never had a system that needs more calcium than a saturated drip can provide> I don't agree, and dripping is a big pain in the a%&. <yep :) Best regards, Anthony>

Circulation Pumps Hi guys I am so glad I found your site it's great. Please keep up the good work. I am setting up a 55 gal. salt fish/invert tank. Can you give me some help on circulation pumps (size number and brand recommended) I am currently looking at using two Rio 1100 or the Dolphin D270 what do you think, is on more reliable than the other? <Of those two, I would get the Dolphins.> Is their another brand that you would recommend. <I like and use mostly Hagen and Aquarium Systems.> I also have a Eheim mod. 2222 that I can run empty or with carbon etc. when needed. Their will also be a AquaC Remora pro skimmer with the Mag 3 pump. Any help you can give me will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Dennis Vigliotte <You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Re: Upgrading to Reef Hey, I've been giving your idea of building a sump some serious thought and had a few questions. First, does the pump for the skimmer need to be rated the same as the regular pump (if I bought a water pump rated at 375 GPH, doesn't the skimmer need the same so water is leaving and entering the main tank at the same rate)?  <nope...they are entirely unrelated. The skimmer sitting inside of a skimmer box that sits in the sump (or anywhere else for that matter) operates on a closed loop with its own dedicated pump. Two pumps never could or should be made to balance each other... even same brand/models have variations or one can clog. That application would be a recipe for disaster> Secondly, does it matter if the pump is outside the sump or is one that is submersible inside the sump as good?  <external pumps are generally better made pumps and contribute less heat to the water. Internals are necessarily Mag drives, impart heat, do not work against head as well, but usually are a little less expensive to run> I was thinking about picking up a Rio pump rated at about 460 GPH--is the reef formula the same as a regular tank--water being turned over 5 times the volume of the tank? <reef systems need much more flow. Aim for 10X turnover and understand that even that may not be enough to satisfy some invertebrates (depends on what you choose). Remember too that a drilled overflow for a large pump will require 4 or more 1" holes. Most tanks are flawed with one or two 1" overflow holes. Never use siphon overflows please)> I'm sure I'll think of more later! Thanks for all your help! Mike <best regards, Anthony>

Re: Upgrading to Reef Hi, OK, as far as the pumps go, I'm thinking more along the lines of a Mag Drive rated at 700 GPH--sound good? <by common rule of measure it sounds like it is in the ballpark but once you rockscape the tank and start picking coral you may find that it is not enough. I have a 50 gallon aquarium run by a Mag 1100 and supplemented by 2 additional powerheads!> Next, what would be a good skimmer pump than to go with that? 100 GPH? Not sure what I should aim for here.  <I really don't understand your question about a "skimmer pump" my friend. A commercial skimmer comes with its own pump or recommendation for one, an extra is not needed. You are simply sitting a sump skimmer in an overflow box that sits inside of the sump (or has a sealed dam doing the same thing). The skimmer box catches all gravity overflow water which overflows in turn into the sump proper to be carried back up to the main display by a single return pump. In cases like this, the location of a good local aquarium society is so helpful to find local members for fellowship to show you the ropes in person with their own tanks. What city are you from? Perhaps we can recommend a helpful regional club> As far as the overflow, you are suggesting not to use an siphon overflow box?  <Correct... they are never foolproof and inevitably fail... if not in the 1-year picture, at least the 3 year picture... few people escape without a disaster> That would mean I'd have to drill holes into my 75 gallon main tank, right? Four of them at one-inch apiece all with bulkheads?  <correct... this is the most reliable way> I'd probably have someone with more "mechanical" expertise (and the right tools!) do this.  <exactly... local aquarium society, LFS or aq service personnel> How far about should the four holes be?  <let the driller decide after seeing your tank, bud> And all the tubing leading from them would be controlled by one pump, or does the water just flow down by use of gravity  <correct> (and does all this water first enter an overflow box, or go straight into the sump)?  <straight into the sump is preferred... into the skimmer box specifically or into the skimmer if the model allows (like the Turboflotor)> Sorry for all the questions, but I'm learning a lot! Thanks, Mike <best regards, Anthony>

Powerheads vs. Water pumps Hi, thanks for your comments on my 75 gallon eel, trigger, and lion tank with nitrite spikes. (remember Tetratec and Prizm filters) <Vaguely> I'm going to follow your first recommendation and get more water movement via powerheads. Just one question, is there any advantages/disadvantages to using two Rio 1400 pumps vs. two Aquaclear 802 powerheads? <I am partial to the Hagen powerheads.> I can get the Rio pumps about $5 cheaper each, and both the Rio and Aquaclear are rated at 400 gph. Thank you as always, Jack <Good luck! -Steven Pro>

Little Giant I am building a 200 gallon reef tank, I have my tank drilled on both ends with over flows, I am running a wet/dry and a protein skimmer, the protein skimmer is a SeaLife #250 and will be run of a Rio 2100, I am not sure what is a good pump to use to send m water back up to the tank, I was thinking about using a Little Giant MD4QX-SC, what is your opinion on this pump, Also would u add or change anything that I have listed. >> The Magnetic Drive Semi Corrosive series of pumps by Little Giant are fine products... However, if this were my tank... I would be looking for something larger, flow and pressure wise... Maybe a Sequence 500... that could run all circulation, the skimmer... Bob Fenner

Source for Sequence Pumps Hello: Thanks for the information on the pump, you recommended a sequence 500, I have been search the www for the pump with no luck, could you advise a site that sells them  >> Hmm, ask your local dealer to order one from Quality Marine in Los Angeles... a wholesaler... or from All Seas... Bob Fenner

Water pumps hello again, Thanks for the fast and informative answers. I have read that some reef systems now have a water turnover rate of 20+ times an hour. I have a 45g. with sump that totals 55-58g. and I am torn as to the proper sized pump. I have narrowed it down to the Iwaki wmd30rxlt or the 40rxlt. The 40 would give 21-22x turnover where the 30 comes in at 17.5-18X. Would this small of a difference be of concern? As far as flow the 40 is the hands down winner, but at the cost of increased wattage; other neg.s are small initial price increase for pump and replacement parts. I have heard that the 40 is noisier with its external cooling fan. It will be housed in the cabinet so I don't know if this is a concern, but the tank is in the living room for everyone to enjoy. My main concern is for the impending inhabitants and I don't want to find myself underpowered in the pump department. What's your take on this? Later the total gallons will increase as I intend to add a small refugium (10g). This addition will be sometime down the road. I laughed when I read that it would take a year to get all of the eggs in the basket. I'm not laughing to loud now! I'm still having fun though!!! Thanks, Greg >> I would go with the 30 and not worry about "lower flow rate" whatsoever... The larger pump is a "no thank you" for the noise, and waste heat it produces...  And outstanding, re your apparent attitude and interest in the hobby. Me too! Bob Fenner

Micro-Jet powerheads by Aquarium Systems. Hi Bob, I'm thinking on installing some of this (2) to create more current in my 120 2'x2'x4' Reef tank. I'm thinking on this particular ones (http://www.aquariumsystems.com/pumps.htm) because they are very small in size, and I can hide them inside the LR... My question is if you have any experience with them? are they good? <Yes, I do know these products and they are excellent. Very sturdy, dependable... little waste heat production> , It looks to me that they might be to puny to help here. GPH is rated at 117 GPH and I will attach something (sponge?)<Possibly... or just situate them where animals that might get into trouble by getting too near the intakes can't be there> to the inlet to prevent them from sucking anything alive. I'm planning on using one to create currents for Acroporas that will be in a row of around 24" length... Please advice. If you don't think they are good, please advice on some product that you think could help me. Thanks a lot, Norberto. <Very good products for the application... would have some powerheads nearer the surface, with cross currents in addition. Bob Fenner>

Re: pumps/choices Bob: So you think the lower gallonage (600 G/H) of the Eheim 1060 is ok for the Turboflotor even though they recommend 700 G/H? Or does the Rio 2100 not really pump as much as it says? <Bingo... more than stated flow rate here to compare... pressure, stability...> And regarding energy consumption... wouldn't the Eheim (50 watts) use more energy than the Rio (25 watts)? Thanks again, Steve <How to put this? The Eheim pumps much more per kilowatt hour consumed... and lasts much longer to boot. Bob Fenner>

Powerhead Recommendations Could you please give me some advice on the best powerheads for my reef surge unit. At the moment I have Fluval 302s but one of the impellors keeps breaking your advice would give me a lot of help thanks. <Certainly. The larger volume/flow models of Hagen and Aquarium Systems are superior. Look to their lines for dependable, quiet, long-lasting service. Bob Fenner>

Pumps Hi Bob, On to my next question. I've been reading some very negative posts regarding Rio powerheads/pumps. I am currently using a RIO 2500 as a sump return on my 75 gallon heavily stocked reef, and a RIO 2100 to drive my Top Fathom 110 protein skimmer. These pumps (both in sump) now have me worried. My LFS is willing to take my spare unused 3100 in trade toward a 500 Mag Drive. They don't have much else in the way of "real" pumps. Would you make specific "suggestions" for what I should use to replace the Rio's? Quiet would be good, and energy & heat efficient would also be good. <if you had the money, the same (real) equivalent flow, pressure models of Eheims.... I would at least have back-ups for the Rio/TAAM products... and would likely do the trade for the Mag...> Thanks as always for your time and patience, Marty <Chat with you soon my friend. Bob Fenner>

Pumps Hi Robert, I have 2 tanks, one 90 gallon fish only tank and one 55 gallon reef tank. I keep a 50 gallon container of premixed filtered and heated salt water down the basement to do water changes.  <Good idea, size> It is time consuming and exhausting to carry many 5 gallon buckets up the stairs to do water changes. Is there a pump on the market you know of that can pump 30 gallons of water up from the container in the basement to the main tanks on the first floor? Around 16 feet or so? <Quite a few choices here... Having lugged literally oceans of water around myself, I am inclined to encourage you to rig up an all-non-metal volute and impeller direct drive pump to use periodically, and rig a through hull (gas jacket) fitting... maybe a remote switch to turn the thing on/off while you're upstairs... But a simpler magnetic drive pump, even a submersible can be had that will push sixteen feet of head. Please see the manufacturers links on our site: www.WetWebMedia.com or the etailers for their listings and in turn the makers' URLs for their power curves.> I don't need it to pump 200 gallons a minute or anything like that, just enough to do 30 gallons at a time once per week at that distance. If you could let me know maybe a brand name and where to find it would be great. <There are several... from Dolphin to Little Giant back to Jacuzzi...> Thank you so much, Mark <Bob Fenner>

Question regarding Turboflotor and Eheim pumps Seems like the more I learn about this hobby, the more questions there are... hopefully my questions to you are becoming more "intelligent" as they go... :-) <and perhaps the responses> Before I get to my main question, the Aqua Medic lists the Turbo Floater 1000 as a unit with a bacterial filtration unit built on, and the one that I think everyone is talking about is now listed at the end of the product listings as the Turbo Floater 1000 CLASSIC. I assume, from reading some of your FAQs on bio-balls in a system with a lot of LR and LS, that you'd recommend the "CLASSIC"???  <Yes, in general> I wonder if they made any other improvements. If so, I could get the newer model and just remove the bio-ball type things. <Yes> Anyhow... so basically, I'm paranoid about RIO pumps now. Especially since I'm in the market for a Turboflotor. I read your website and FAQs thoroughly and read the one where you suggest hooking up a Eheim (with factory impeller, no needle wheel) to the TF1000. Great, but I can't find an Eheim dealer ANYWHERE on the web. Marine Depot and Custom Aquatic both carry the TF1000 but neither carry the Eheim pumps.  <Other people do> I checked two local LFSs and neither carried the Eheims. I will look into one more LFS but I prefer to buy online due to considerably lower prices. <Check through the etailers listed on the www.WetWebMedia.com Links Pages> What do you think about getting the TF1000 sans pump, and adding a Supreme Mag 12 (1200G) pump? Do you think the 1200 is too much movement/pressure? <Can be done... and throttled> Do you think the Mag 7 (700G) is better? Will the impeller or whatever thingy the Mag Drives comes with will do a good job of creating micro bubbles? <Good enough> I plan to relegate my RIO pumps to moving around water in my premix saltwater container and also for pumping water from the container to my sump for water changes. My small RIO 800s will be used in my quarantine tank when running. <Good idea> PS... the internet is a great thing... not only do I get great info from you and others, I found great prices online. A Mag Drive 1800 was selling for $189 at a LFS and is available for $109 at Custom Aquatic... WOW!!! <Yes, much less overhead, much greater volume> PSS... You recommend hard plumbing with PVC or using flexible clear tubing for the overflow to the sump? <Solid, with a valve and true-union disconnect. Bob Fenner> Thanks...

Eheim (and other) Pumps Bob, I've been reading over your FAQs and the WWM site on pumps, and I have a few questions. <Okay> You seem to really like these. I was going to get a Supreme Mag Drive 1800 to move water from my sump back to the main tank, but since you're so high on Eheim, I must consider these as well. I went to their website from your link off of WWM, and am confused. The largest pump they list is the 1060 Centrifugal Pump, that is only rated at 602GPH. The Supreme Mag Drive 1800, even at 4' head, is listed at 1375GPH. Is this like home stereo stuff where the stereo system's watts are totally misrepresented by some companies? Is the 1060 a beefy pump? <Hmm, good question and well put... the Mag is "beefier" pressure and volume rated and reality wise> What do you think of the Supreme Mag Drive pumps? <Good products.> I'm thinking maybe the Eheim website is incomplete. Please take a look at http://www.eheim.com/technik_pumpen.htm <This list is complete... to date... for the U.S. market> What is Eheim's largest pump for around $150? I want to push as much water as possible from my 40G sump back into the main 100G. I like brisk water movement... I think the fish do too! :-) <Yes... the 1060> I've also been scouring WWM trying to figure out what is wrong or bad about TAAM Rio Pumps? I see references here and there about "the problem" but no specific or detailed explanations of what could go wrong with them. I have three in my current 55G and have yet to experience any problems with them. Please clarify. Thanks. <"Attention is narrowed perception"... the last few years TAAM/Rio pumps have enjoyed huge popularity and market share by virtue of: low cost, large selection/applicability... but a spate of "burn outs" "ruptures of casings"... that seem prominent by reading listservs et al... 99% of these units are fine... but there have been some spectacular and deadly (to livestock) occasions of catastrophic to quiet failure. Eheims products are used in medical applications... more energy efficient, the least waste-heat producers, the zenith of reliability. Mags somewhere in-between. Bob Fenner>

Circulation pumps/"pagoda coral" Dear Bob, You've been such a help to me on every aspect of my now 8 month old reef aquarium I wish to ask your advice on an equipment problem. I have 7 RIO pumps on a Wave Maker 2 are 650 GPH, 2 are 375 GPH and 3 are 200 GPH. I have already had to put in 4 replacements or replaced armatures. One pump failed after 2 weeks. I also have RIO pumps mixing my salt water, moving R/O water from its collection tank through the auto top off system and two others supplying circulation in the two quarantine tanks. Another powers the Turboflotor. A total of 12 RIO pumps. <That's a bunch of Rio's for sure> After traveling for 8 days, I got home to find that the fresh water top off pump had failed, cracked armature) and water was down about 10 gallons (5 days evaporation) and salinity was at 1.028. The chiller probe was out of the water and temperature had reached 84F.Only the large water supply (140 gallons with the refugium) saved my creatures. One of the Neons has some scaly parasite or something but the other fish. mushrooms, and corals are ok. I gradually corrected both the temp. and sp. gr. over 4 days. Needless to say, I have bought my last RIO. They have replaced pumps under warrantee but I am looking for reliability. <Good> I will plumb a small Iwaki to the fresh water supply 'cause I can't let this happen again - the two Iwakis on my system have been flawless - However, I need your advice on submersible pumps for the Wave Maker. I see inexpensive power heads advertised from AZOO, MAXI-JET, and HAGEN. EHEIM are much more expensive but are they much better?  <Yes> I can't use the TUNZE because there's no room under my hood. Is there another make of power head I should look at? Am I stuck with RIO on the Turboflotor? <No... an Eheim or other pump/powerhead can be fitted here> I would hate to have it fail while I am traveling because it takes out a half cup of gunk every day. I drilled it and put a drain in the cup as you suggested even though the manufacturer said it couldn't be done. <Hmph, we showed them> By the way, the convicts spent the first two weeks crowded together looking at their reflection but now have separated and are living in little caves they have dug under the rocks. They peek out like Jawfish and at times come out to eat some flake food but I think they are living on the creatures coming up from the refugium. The refugium filled up with red Hawaiian plants and green Caulerpa in no time and the copepod/amphipod life is already evident. I often find live tiny (2-3mm) shrimp-like creatures in the 100 micron pre-filter bag and I put them back in the refugium. Numerous very tiny exo-skeletons are evident in the water most every day. The clown, the Gramma, the damsel, and the Neons still eat flake hungrily while the sleeper goby and tank don't bother with it. I have my first stony coral - a big yellow "pagoda" - the dealer didn't know the scientific name or source. It is a 6 inch study in undulating curves with a hundred or more 2-3mm star like polyps and no ridges and valleys. Looks a bit like the green corals in the full page photo on page 360? Also it resembles the Lamarck's sheet coral (Fungiid Agariciidae) that we have seen much of around Aruba and Curacao. <Take a look at the family Dendrophylliidae coverage on our site: www.WetWebMedia.com here. Bob Fenner>

Eheim Pumps I was looking over the FAQs today (a daily event!) and noted that someone was having trouble finding Eheim pumps. I got mine from Premium Aquatics. www.premiumaquatics.com <http://www.premiumaquatics.com> I noted they are not linked into your site, however. I'd say they have the best price on the 'net for Eheims--I got the 1060 for $99. I also got it plumbed into the TF1000 this weekend, which was no easy task. At any rate, you might consider adding this etailer to your links page with a note that they carry the Eheims. <Will put the co. on the Links pages, and this under "Circulation". Thanks. Bob Fenner> Hope you had a nice weekend. P.S. The new tank will be delivered on Wednesday. Setup/final plumbing/electrical will be done Wed night/Thurs night. FW Testing Fri/Sat, salt and sand on Sat/Sun, and LR on Monday! (And then within a month or so, I'll be emailing you again, I'm certain, as I STILL haven't decided on the "show fish" for the system!) : ) James A. Deets

Pump question Hi Bob (or Lorenzo), Here I am almost ready to put my whole system together, then put live rock in and get it going. Here is the set up: 55gal tank ---> overflow box ---> 3ft. tall 4.5in diameter protein skimmer (in sump - 35gal total, but only about 20gals of water) ---> through baffles ----> refugium ----> more baffles ----> pump? <Okay> ----> back into 55gal tank. My question is,....how do I know what size pump to get? <Good question... depends on a few factors... like head pressure and flow needs, induced drags, how much you want/need to move water through different devices, outflows to accommodate the type of life, effects you're shooting for... Best to slightly (twenty percent or so) over-size/flow your pumping...> Doesn't it have to equal (or close to equal) the amount of gallons per hour the overflow box is sucking out of the tank?  <Hmm, sort of... the overflow/s will hopefully take care of whatever transit volume you're providing... if there is some doubt, concern that they may not, I would add another (overflow), just in case the one fails...> If so, then how do I measure this amount? with a gallon jug and a stop watch? <This is one approach... though many manufacturers will provide flow/pressure versus head (height above water level) curves for their pumps/motors... If this is the only pump for the skimmer and all other functions, look to something that will move (actually) a good ten times the system's volume... as a rule of thumb...> Please help me help my tank not to spit up all over my floor. Thanks, Jana <Do read over the section on "Pond Pumps" and "Pond Plumbing" on the www.WetWebMedia.com site as well as the marine sections and FAQs on "circulation" till your mind is at ease. Bob Fenner>

Advice on skimmer and pump Hey Bob (or replacement :) <Same ole model back in town> I am making a small refugium, 27 gals (say 14 gals of water) I wanted an in-sump skimmer and was considering the AquaC EV 150 (supposed to be good until 180 gal, I have 108) The pump for it can be the Rio 2500 or Mag7. Which is the better pump? <The Mag> I will have about 5 feet of head max. Which pump should I get for the return from the refugium? <A small Eheim is my first choice> I like stuff to last and at the same time get the best value AND cover myself if I upgrade to a 180 gal one day :) <You won't be disappointed with the Eheim on all counts> Kind regards, Robert Jackson <Be chatting. Bob Fenner>

Wavemakers in the moonlight... Hi Bob, Mike again I was wondering if you could give me any recommendations on a wavemaker setup for a 300 gallon tank? <Probably Turbelles and Gemini's... about 960 gph> I was thinking about 2 sets of 3 Zoomed PowerSweep but I've heard a lot of negative comments on them. The same person who really disliked the Zoo med's (bad personal experience) recommended the Sea Swirl system. <They're okay... for returns> I was thinking of 2 1" units (one each end of the tank) with a dedicated pump hooked up to a wavemaker controller so I can vary the cycle, including evening style decrease in sweeps. <That's fine> I was thinking Iwaki pumps, one to the Ecosystem style refugium (I'm going to DIY the refugium, I've seen some great deals on used 125g tanks in the area I'm moving too, I figured is wouldn't hurt to have as big a one as possible, and 125 sounds workable) and one running the sweeps. 3000 gph for the refugium feeder and around 2000 gph for sweeps. 2nd topic: I would like to setup a moonlight cycle with the lighting. For primary lighting I was going with PCs and MH's. Any good controllers to recommend for the moonlight? <Yeah, Neptune...> My understanding was that 25w growth bulbs worked well for that application. Thoughts? Any good sites for advice on setting this up? <Neptune... or maybe Octopus... they're links on our website> I'm interested in eventually trying my hand at coral propagation and was thinking that if I could get them to succeed in sexual reproduction as well as asexual (I'm planning on acquiring multiple specimens of the same species) it would be a "good thing" as it would increase the genetic diversity in captive specimens. Thanks as always for your time! Mike, the comma and bracket impaired. <I understand. Bob Fenner>

Re: Wavemakers in the moonlight... <<Mike, hope this helps. Bob Fenner>> >recommendations on how good Gemini's are, but no listing for products. Am I >being blind and missing it on the WWM links page for saltwater? ><Likely not... will have to search: >Maurice, who makes Gemini... where can they be procured? Thank you.  >Bob Fenner> That Pet Place but they might be on back order !!!!!!!!!!!!! http://www.thatpetplace.com/ Hope that helps sorry about the late reply , have not been near the computer !!!!!!!! Maurice B. <Thanks Maurice. See you soon. Bob Fenner> Robert Fenner wrote: > Some snipping throughout for brevity's sake, lord knows I need it. :) <Me too> > Hi Bob, Mike again > I was wondering if you could give me any recommendations on a > wavemaker setup for a 300 gallon tank? > <Probably Turbelles and Gemini's... about 960 gph> I've searched using Google and can't find anything on Turbelles, <Yikes, likely a mis-keying on my part, try: "Turbelles"...> and only recommendations on how good Gemini's are, but no listing for products. Am I being blind and missing it on the WWM links page for saltwater? <Likely not... will have to search: please check back with me tomorrow or so> > The same person who really disliked the Zoo med's (bad personal experience) recommended the Sea Swirl system. > <They're okay... for returns> Re Sea Swirls for Wavemakers: Sea Swirl had this to say: NO, DO NOT hook the Sea Swirl up to a wave timer as the constant stopping and starting will shorten the lifespan of the motor considerably due to the "start-up" torque requirements. It is much better to let them run 24/7. From now on we are going to add this to our instructions as a few people have been doing this and it is not good for our product!! ..HTH ...Ed <Have heard this as well...> > Thanks as always for your time! > Mike, the comma and bracket impaired. <Mis-bracket with you soon. Bob Fenner>

Re: That Pet Place Should have checked that one myself, I used to shop there when I lived back east, my ex-fiancé© lived about a 1/2 mile from there. Thanks again Bob, and thank Maurice for me too! <I will> When I eventually get this thing set up, I'll have to send you some pictures since I consider you the as yet unnamed system's godfather. Or, maybe I'll get off my duff and write a book about my journey towards reef keeping. <A high honor indeed!> Say, that sounds like a nice title, A Journey Towards Reef Keeping.  <Very nice> Recently found out the LR source I'm looking at (Tampa Bay Saltwater) tends to have a lot of Stomatopod stowaway's, I don't mind since I think they're interesting little beasts, just have to get them out of the system before I start stocking fish and other inverts. Now, to talk the wife into letting me have a Mantis ranch in addition to the reef setup, I know I'm on my own with that one! <Ah yes.> As always, thanks for all your advice! Mike <You're welcome. Bob Fenner>

Sump/Pump Size Greetings Bob I am setting up a 55 gal reef tank, following the Berlin Method of filtration. How large should my sump be - I am currently planning on a 10 gal aquarium. <As big as you can fit... really. A ten would be a minimum... as you can understand given the need for not filling it completely to accommodate transit volume (should power, the pump fail)... and the myriad of things you might want to "do there"... make it a twenty or more gallon if you can, believe me> Also, what should my pump size (gpm's) be? The sump will be directly beneath the tank, by about 24". <At least five times the tank by the rated volume per hour... better to be ten> Thanks Bob!! <You're welcome my friend. Bob Fenner> David Hacker

Wave2k ? Good morning Mr. Fenner! <Buenos dias!> Thank you very much for the great info you have provided me. <You are welcome my friend> I have another question. I recently came across this site www.wave2k.com, which promotes this interesting unit for water motion purposes in reef tanks. It comes in both center and corner units and who knows? perhaps it is something worth trying out. <Interesting concept... and seems reasonably priced for what's involved> However, I wanted to see if you had any previous knowledge about this product and if so, what were your impressions about it. <No, no personal experience. Don't know these folks... haven't seen them around at the various trade and hobbyist shows where folks display such wares... nor in the periodicals in the field. Just judging from the "hit counter" on their site I suspect they're very new> Thank you very much, as always. Mary. <Thank you for bringing this site, these products to my/our attention. Bob Fenner>

Powerheads Hello Mr. Fenner, I have another quick question about an idea I thought of. I would like to place a powerhead, or two on wave cycles, but I don't like seeing them in the tank. The tank is a see through wall divider unit with no real back side to hide the powerheads along. Is there such a thing as an inexpensive powerhead that is not very big that I could hide in my overflow, and is able to have tubing attached to the intake, and return to for the water. That way it will be in the tank while being underwater, and I could just run the tubing to where I want it to exhaust, while being hidden from view The intake would not be from in the overflow itself,( I know this would disrupt the water-level for the overflow each time it would cycle on) but from in the tank, and just routed to inside the overflow. Is this a crazy idea, or do you think it might work? Greg N.

<There are small "mini pumps" that might do... I'm more inclined to hide such devices within, behind decor in the main tank though... too much likelihood of blockage, other trouble placed elsewhere. Bob Fenner>