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Red Sea aquarium fish selection – 06/28/08
I'm thinking I'd like to go with a Red Sea aquarium, basically having only
fish from the Red Sea. Could you please let me know if these are compatible?
I've read and read and read WWM but I'd like one final opinion on this stocking
plan.
<Ok>
Every fish will be fresh water dipped and then placed in quarantine for a month
before placement into the main tank. Quick side question, should I fresh water
dip going from the quarantine to the main tank after the month?
<On the way into quarantine>
I thought the idea was all the time in the quarantine is where you make sure
there are no signs of disease or any other problems, so what would be the point
of a second fresh water dip. However, I've seen posted on WWM a couple times now
that dipping after quarantine isn't a bad idea... and others have said no need
for it. So what is your opinion on the subject :)
<Can be done... usually superfluous as you state to do the second>
180g tank, 6x2x2. One 250w metal halide pendant over the left side of the tank.
Right side will be left "dark" so to speak, as a calmer, more hidden side of the
tank. Obviously it will have plenty of light shining over there too, but no
direct light shining straight down on it. I figure the fish can have a little
calm spot over there if needed and I'll put more caves on that side of the tank
in the rock. A 75g tank underneath being used as a sump, about 35-40g worth of
water inside and probably 50 lbs of live rock and a 8" deep DSB about 18" wide
by 18" long. Gracilaria and Chaeto in the sump. 10% water changes once a week.
1200gph flow through the sump, 4 Koralia pumps in the main tank, two number 3
Koralia and two number 4, so should be some decent turbulent water. With 1200
gph return from the sump and about 4200 gph flow from the Koralia, I should be
turning over the tank volume about 25 times an hour.
<So far, so good>
First, two Semilarvatus B/F will be going into the tank.
Second, a Raccoon butterfly.
Third, a Harlequin tusk. (I know, not Red Sea, right?
<Correct>
Is there a similar looking/attitude species of fish from the Red Sea that would
replace the
Harlequin?)
<Oh yes... quite a few... Do look on fishbase.org, search re country... maybe
Jordan, Egypt, Sudan... the Cheilinus genus... or on WWM>
Fourth, a Purple tang.
Fifth, an Imperator angel.
<Mmm, this last will need more room in time>
This would make a total of 6 fish. I realize that this is stretching it for
amount of water per fish when they all reach their adult size, but I figure most
of them I'll have 3-4 years before they hit their adult max size and by then
I'll be using my 180 as a sump to my 400 gallon tank ;)
<Oh!>
I wouldn't mind some type of Red Sea smaller fish if you have something you
think would look good in this display.
<Got to be... Pseudanthias squamipinnis... the definitive reef fish of the slope
here>
All of the fish I've picked out get 10" or over, so a couple skinnier little
fish might not be a bad thing, some kind of wrasse or something. I could always
do the chromis which I believe come from the Red Sea but eh, I'd rather have
something else as I've always had chromis in all my tanks.
Any ideas are welcome :)
Grant
<You've seen this: http://wetwebmedia.com/redseafwgv1.htm
and the linked files above? Bob Fenner>
Re: Red Sea aquarium fish selection
6/30/08
Yes, I've read through your FAQs on Anthias. I actually had 3 Pseudanthias
squamipinnis in a 75g before, and as happens to everyone else before me and the
thousands to come after me, one died, then another, and I was left with just
one. The male did really well though, I kept him alive in my reef tank for 2
years, beautiful specimen but I eventually traded him to a local hobbyist.
<I see>
Anyway, I'm reluctant to go the Anthiine route... I've read too many horror
stories and experienced a small part of it myself. They are beauties and I know
what ecotype they are in the wild but I just think they aren't really "my thing"
so to speak.
<Ok>
I did read your webpage you linked to about the Red Sea and the fishes within, I
have looked over it a couple times over the past month. I researched goatfishes
after reading it, I was thinking of maybe adding one of those to my fish
selection. I wanted some small type of sand sifter but a goatfish is a little
more interesting to me. Parupeneus cyclostomus looked interesting, but it gets
to a foot and a half... that is a little bigger than I want in a fish.
<Not near this large in captivity by half...>
I also like the six line wrasse, but I'm a little worried it might pick on my
butterflies... what do you think about that?
<Not likely in this sized volume>
So maybe I'm going to go with two Bluethroat triggerfish from the Red Sea...
I've liked them for years and just never really found a way to work them into a
tank. But I think they would do pretty good with my present stocking plans.
<Me too>
My last question then is if you approve of my modified stocking plan :)
First, two Semilarvatus butterfly.
Second, a Raccoon butterfly (would I be able to get away with 2 of these in a
180g or should I just stick with 1?)
<Could have two... but C. fasciatus is fine solo>
Third, two blue throat triggers, definitely a pair. Quick side question, are
these born male/female or are they able to change sex? If they can change sex,
then do I just buy two 3" triggers and hope only one of them decides to be male?
<Balistids don't reverse/change sex as far as I'm aware>
Fourth, a Purple tang.
Fifth, an Imperator angel.
Somewhere in there, if you replied that a 6 line wrasse was appropriate, I'd
throw one of them in there. Maybe 2?
<Okay>
Thanks for all you do, Bob. I've got your CMA book, I just bought it about 2
months ago when I started deciding to move from reef to FOWLR, it's been a great
read. Between the book and WWM, I feel like I'm a expert ;) I certainly know
more than most of the people at the LFS.
<Ahh, then I hope/trust you are helping them. Cheers, BobF>
Re: Red Sea aquarium fish selection...
Trigger names, Id... Goatfish sys., -
7/2/08
I'm glad you agreed on the Blue Throat trigger idea, I think they are cool
fish. Quick question for you though, I read on WWM that they are endemic to the
Red Sea, yet sites like LiveAquaria sell them from Hawaii. What's up with that?
No need to get too technical, I'm just curious, I want to make sure I purchase
the correct version.
<Mmm, there are two species... of different distribution... with the same name.
See here: http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/triggers/index.htm
The Sufflamen is the one you're looking for... from the Red Sea, western Indian
Ocean... the Xanthichthys is the Pacific... including the Hawaiian Isles. An ex.
of the difficulty, lack of clarity of common appellations>
The goatfish I mentioned, I'm glad you replied back positively about it, I'm
looking forward to having one. Curious though, will they be ok in about a 1 inch
crushed coral substrate?
<Mmm, I encourage you to not use this type, size, depth of material period...
For the system and the mullid, look to very fine/soft coral sand... and read re
on WWM>
I don't want the real small particle stuff because I'm afraid my water will just
be too cloudy,
<Mmm, not so...>
I was thinking the next size up, the stuff that cant really float around in the
water, but not much bigger than regular sand. If this is totally inappropriate
for a goatfish I'll probably just stick to the small sand, I'd like to do
whatever I can that will get me away from having to manually stir the sand
myself from time to time.
Quick question for you that I just want your opinion on... regarding metal
halides lighting. I'm planning on going with a 250w 13K MegaChrome Marine,
double ended metal halide. But the more and more I read about Kelvin ratings,
the more unsure I get of what I want... Basically, what lighting temperature do
you feel looks best for a FOWLR?
<Mmm... for the Red Sea? A dear friend, Pablo Tepoot, of New Life Enterprises,
asked me for images to make his spectacular photo montage that he has for his
trade display booth as well as a large wall in his Homestead, FLA home... For
the color of the water... Something in the 10-14k K range is about right>
If you recall, I'm going to have 3 or so bright yellow B/F but also a Purple
tang and a Emperor angel, both of which are not yellow and much darker, I'd like
their colors to stand out as well. I've been reading that you want low Kelvin
ratings for making yellow stand out and high Kelvin rating to make the blues
stand out, however, I'm just planning on one MH with no other light
supplementation, so what would in your opinion be the best lighting to go with?
I realize this is a topic for much debate, I'm just looking for your personal
opinion on it.
<Understood>
This is the light I'm speaking of, by the way.
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~action~view~
idProduct~MB6612~idCategory~FILTBUMHDETW~category~Saltwater_Aquarium_Supplies-
Lighting-Bulbs-Metal_Halide-Double_Ended-250_Watts~vendor~.html
<I see>
So I just finished The CMA tonight, one of the other books I ordered was Reef
Invertebrates by you and Calfo, I'll be starting that tonight. I'm especially
interested in the part dedicated to refugiums.
<Heeee! The original idea for the work was to promote others success in our
hobby interest by encouraging the use of these live sumps... I told Anthony
(Calfo) that we'd never sell the work with this as the focus or... title (!)...
so we settled on Reef Invertebrates (sans Cnidarians which we intend/ed to make
another volume)... but did manage to sneak in about a quarter of the work as
Refugiums... You will enjoy, gain by its reading. Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Re: Red Sea aquarium fish selection 7/3/08
Ah good, thanks for the clarity on the triggers. So I want the Sufflamen
albicaudatus, which stinks because I'm having a real hard time finding one
online for sale.
<Place a standing order with larger etailers and have your LFS do the same with
the larger marine livestock wholesale/importers. These do come in...>
I only found one site that offers it and they are out of stock + they say it is
a rare hard to find fish.
<All a matter of parties asking... being patient... cooperating>
Local dealers are touch and go up here in Alaska, I'm sure if I cant find it
online they wont be able to get it in. Are they typically a seasonal offering or
are they really just a rare fish?
<Just rare to the "west" due to distance, air freight connections.... and a lack
of ongoing, concerted dealings>
I read through your FAQs on the species and no one else seemed to mention much
of a hard time finding them. They also aren't very expensive, making me think
they aren't really that rare of a fish.
<Ship very well, in not-too-large a volume of water, air (very important)... The
"handling and shipping" are the bulk of cost... not the fish>
Alright, I'll go with the fine soft coral sand, I really hope it isn't
going to make my tank perma cloudy.
<Won't; I assure you>
I have a signal goby in my 75g reef tank and he continuously stirs my fine sand,
always making a small hazy cloud around him of coral dust, which then settles
down elsewhere and gets kicked up again later. I was trying not to replicate
this in my main tank.
<Look to "other brand"... perhaps CaribSea...>
Yes, I will have good filtration which slowly helps remove those fine particles,
but it takes a long time it seems to get the dust out of the system. Between the
sand itself dissolving and getting smaller in particle size and the already
small state of even the biggest pieces, it seems like my signal goby never ran
out of dust like particles to cloud the water with.
I'm going to go ahead and try that 13K MH light and see what it does. If I don't
like it, in a year when I replace it I'll get a lower Kelvin rating one I
suppose. Quick side question on the lighting, one of the main reasons I'm
placing that much light on a FOWLR is I want some natural algae growth for the
Purple tang, nothing huge and gaudy but I'm hoping for just the small greenish
tint that the tang can continually scrape over. Is a 13K light good for algae
growth or would I be better suited going towards the 10K?
<Either is fine>
Another quick question for you... Suppose I was going to skip the butterfly fish
entirely and the seemingly hard to find Sufflamen, and instead go with a Purple
tang, a Queen or Emperor angel and a Clown trigger...
<... I'd skip the Queen and the Clown...>
Do you think those 3 fish would be compatible long term in a 180g?
<No>
Considering I get a "nice" clown trigger, not one of the hellions?
I do like the B/F I listed, but at the same time I've read so much great stuff
about personality and just a huge "coolness" factor of the Clown trigger that
I'd almost rather go with just 3 larger size fish than original stocking plan I
had.
<... not from the Red Sea>
I realize this would no longer be a Red Sea fish tank, but I'm OK with that as
long as the fish I do get are lively with lots of personality. I've read a lot
of your FAQs and your article on the Clown, which by the way seem somewhat
contradictory. The article says keep the Clown in a tank only to itself, the
FAQs all say it does OK with aggressive angels and tangs.
<A matter of timing mostly... eventually... almost all Clown Triggers "go bad">
Is this simply a case of "best care scenario" would be to keep it by itself, but
since people are already writing in saying they have a Clown trigger mixed in
with other fish, you say fine but just make sure they are also aggressive fish?
And would you suggest a Queen angel or a Emperor angel in a Clown trigger tank?
<... no>
Thanks for all you do. I read only 4 pages of Reef Invertebrates last night
before dropping off to sleep but I plan on getting in some good reading tonight
:)
Grant
<You are going about this in a very good manner... Do keep reading, cogitating
furiously for now... Bob Fenner>
Re: Red Sea aquarium fish selection...
7/4/08
Well hopefully I can find two of the triggers. As I'm sure you've seen,
Marine Center is out of service for the moment, so that really only leaves me
LiveAquaria, a lot of the other places don't like to ship to Alaska, heh. From
what I've read on WWM and other sites, these triggers can actually be paired up
as long as you get male/female, correct?
<... yes>
Sadly, most of my research was on the Hawaiian version of the blue throat and
there doesn't seem to be a lot of information on the Red Sea endemic version, so
I'm hoping the two are pretty similar as far as attitude and needs go. I really
would prefer a pair of triggers to just one. And man, the male Sufflamen
albicaudatus is a beautiful fish, from the pictures I've seen they are a really
nice looking fish. Dark body scales make that blue throat stand out nicely.
After reading lots on the clown trigger, I really would like one. They seem like
such a great personality, I just wish they mixed better with other fish. I'd
love to have a "smart" fish, and yeah from what I hear all the triggers are
rather intelligent as far as fish go, but the clown seems to be THE smart fish.
I wouldn't mind only having one fish in a 180g tank as long as it got large like
the clown does, however the "boring" part for me would be when it's 3 inches
long and the only fish in the tank.
As far as cogitating furiously goes, that pretty much describes the last month
or two of my life. All my spare time is taken up by trying to decide exactly
what I'm going to do beforehand. See, I've had reef tanks in the past but they
were always a hodge podge (I have no clue how to spell that) that I just slowly
got together, I didn't really put them up "correctly". I'd buy a part, then buy
another part later that kind of worked, then another part later that also kind
of worked, and it just all kind of worked together but nothing too well. This
one I'm going to make as perfect as I can at the beginning and not have to keep
trying to get a system limping along. I'm actually pretty much set on my
hardware, the only thing now I've got to hash out is my fish stocking.
So hopefully this is the last thing I have to write in about... Those triggers
from the Red Sea I'm looking at, at what point of my stocking should they be put
in?
<Any time>
I was planning doing the 3 butterfly fish first, then the triggers and a
goatfish, then the purple tang and emperor angel. Three separate instances of
introducing a total of 8 fish, and I have 2 separate quarantine tanks so I wont
have to mix any fish in quarantine except the two Semilarvatus will be in a 30g
quarantine together, otherwise they will all be in their own tanks. Sound good?
Grant
<Indeed it does. B>
Re: Red Sea aquarium fish selection...
dips/baths 7/7/08
This might be something you want to reference on your web page somewhere or
just store away in your mind for future use, but I was in contact with All-Glass
or Aqueon or whatever they are now calling themselves, a dry 180g aquarium
weights 282 lbs and a dry 210g aquarium weighs 343 pounds. This is without glass
covers or a stand or overflows, just a plain Jane empty fish tank. Anyway,
you've helped me so much I figured I needed to give something back, I realize
that was a small thing but interesting to know and it might help some hobbyist
some day.
<Thank you>
Anyway the fish come in tomorrow, I've already got my freshwater dip buckets
(two 5g buckets) set up, one for the two Semilarvatus and one for the Harlequin
tusk. I set the pH last night at 8.2 and I've got pumps in there keeping the
water aerated, so everything should be good to go when the fish arrive. I
haven't put the formalin in yet, I'll wait to do that until I'm ready to dip the
fish. I'm still nervous but actually much less so after your last reply email. I
think I finally feel like I'm going to get this right! And that is a good
feeling :)
<You are prepared!>
Two questions for you, both have answers that are probably very obvious to an
experienced aquarist/genius/superhero
<Dang cape is caught on my chair...>
like yourself, but I'm not sure on them and I did read the website, I don't see
where this is specifically addressed. One, should I acclimate both Semilarvatus
B/F together in the same bucket?
<Can be done if there's room... otherwise, one at a time>
I'm 99% sure they wont be shipped together,
<I'm 100>
so I assume I shouldn't need to acclimate together. My concern comes from
reusing the same bucket. For instance, I'll put one fish into the bucket, let it
sit for 5 minutes OR until it freaks out, whichever comes first. At this point,
should that water be considered "contaminated" and not reusable for the next
butterfly?
<Nope... though there are such concerns for some (mainly freshwater) fish
families>
If so, I'll need to mix up a third bucket of water because my 2nd bucket is
going to be used by my Harlequin. Or should I just put both B/F into the same
bucket at once?
<See above>
It is 4 gallons of water and it will be well aerated and heated. Now since they
are going into the same quarantine tank together, I'm going to assume any
disease one has the other will get, my main concern is if something toxic or for
lack of a better word "bad" happens to the water after the B/F has been in it
for 5 minutes, bad enough that I wont want to dip a 2nd fish in the same water.
<Not to worry>
And second question is my quarantine tank, it is a standard 29g aquarium... Can
two Semilarvatus B/F, around 3.5 to 4 inches in length get along for a month or
two in the same tank?
<Yes>
These aren't purchased as a pair, so they will be two strangers most likely to
each other, and definitely in a smaller water volume than is recommended but
that is only going to be about a two month period. After two months, my newly
set up 180g should be finished cycling and have gone through a good 2 month
period of letting the live rock really come to life, I want to give the rock as
much time as possible to become very alive, so if the B/F can handle 2 months in
the same tank with each other I'd prefer to do that.
<Just monitor metabolites...>
The other option is I could put one B/F and the Harlequin tusk in my one 29g and
then a single B/F in the other 29. Basically, I've got two 29g tanks and 3 fish,
I'm wondering which combo will work best over the course of about a 2 month
period.
<The two BFs tog.>
After that they are going into a 180g and they should be happy as clams.
Thanks Bob!
Grant Gray
<Welcome Grant. B>
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