Tang families (sic, genera) and tank size   2/19/08
Mr Fenner,
I would first like to note that I have read several of your online publications recently and found the detail to be of great value. Thank you for your efforts in relaying information to marine hobbyists such as myself.
<A pleasure to share; a hope to relate information of worth>
I have a question about the various families of tangs in relation to their suitable home aquarium size. I read through your documentation on wetwebmedia.com and there are only a few noted tank volumes recommended as a minimum for the families;
<Ah, genera>
the Acanthurus, Ctenochaetus, and Zebrasoma all note a guideline size starting at 50 gallons. I was wondering if the data is current,
<Mmm, not really is likely a reasonable response. Having been a content provider in the trade and hobby for... is it really more than forty years?... much of my in-print work is woefully dated... and worse... extant w/o this note>
and if perhaps you had some additional recommendations or adjusted recommendations for tank size for any of the 5 major families on the site?
<Well... for most small species of Acanthurus, all the Bristlemouth and Sailfin species, really a fifty gallon volume that is otherwise not crowded... will suffice... that is, with otherwise good maintenance, nutrition... keep these species alive, healthy for something like a "normal" average maximum life span... However... Some Acanthurus get quite large (saw an absolutely gorgeous group of five A. blochii yesterday diving off Crescent Bay/Manta Ray Cove here on HI's Big Island... I do hope my video of them came out... and I do wish I knew enough re editing, placing such on this/these devices that I could immediately (if not sooner) share this with you... But these were all more than a foot long body length (more with their caudals)... These would need hundreds of gallons... Naso and Prionurus species likewise need hundreds of gallons... systems of at least a couple metres/six foot "run"/length to be happy, grow, survive for any real period of time... Oh, and Paracanthurus... should not be kept in anything smaller than a 75... It should go w/o saying, but am always aware that many less-sophisticated folk may read this... that "bigger is better" for sure... behaviorally and physiologically with these and all other fish groups.>
There are several message boards that I frequent, of which they all have a group of people who state that the minimum tank size for most tangs would be something with a 6' length, and nothing smaller than a 75 or even 90 gallon for Zebrasomas or Ctenochaetus. Is there any data that supports specific sizes for these tangs?
<Mmm, anecdotal experience mostly... There are historical, institutional longevity records for some species... but these are almost always kept in vastly larger systems... But I've kept, personally can account for the most popular species care in the stated volumes by our and other service companies...>
I only ask out of curiosity, personally, I have a 180g tank and have been in the hobby for a couple years, but would much prefer to gather all the data that I can as a reference. Thank you for your time, it is much appreciated. Alex Liffick
<Thank you for your interest, asking. I do ask in turn that when you have confidence, time, that you consider joining our WWM Crew in aiding others. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Potty Trained Tang? 01/30/2008
Hello Crew,
Chris here.
<<Hello Chris, Andrew today>>
Long time no email!
I consider that a good thing because it means that I'm not having any problems or I'm finding all my answers on the site.
My one question today is on tang behavior.
I've had my Kole Tang for about five months now.
He seems to have the habit of using the exact same spot to go to the bathroom.
He goes in between a piece of live rock and the corner of the tank.
To the point that there is a pile of "stuff" building up in the corner.
I looked through the tang behavior FAQs but didn't see anything on the subject.
Doesn't seem to be causing any problems, I always vacuum some out on water changes.
Just wanted to get your opinion on the behavior.
<<Very common indeed. However this points out one issue which does need addressing and that is flow. If the tang is leaving packages behind and they are just staying there where left, it means that you have a real lack of flow in this area. Detritus should not be allowed to settle in the tank, rather held in the water column to be removed>>
<<Thanks for the question, have a great day. A Nixon>>

Powder Blue tang... mis-placed tangs  1/12/2008
Hi, I have a powder blue tang that I recently purchased about three weeks ago. I made sure he was acclimated but I don't have a QT, which I am getting soon,
<Yikes...>
he was fine until now that he began to show vertical white markings on the sides of his body and a big bump in the center of his stomach!!!
<Mmm, a pic would be helpful here. Do know that Tangs do have "bumpy stomachs"... do accumulate triturating material ("sand") that aids in maceration/digestion...>
Now I made a huge mistake when I bought these fish since I am still a rooky in salt water aquariums, but now I am wondering what can I do to help him? I read all day during work, and let me tell you what a wonderful job you guys do. My 55 gal
<Too small for this species...>
fish tank includes two clown fish, a yellow tang and the blue powder tang.
<... ditto>
Also I have about 80 lbs
of life rock, a Bak Pak protein skimmer/filter. Please help.
<You need to "go back a few steps"... re/assess your situation, make a plan... I'd return or give away at least both the "powder" tangs here. Read re their Systems, Health on WWM... and re the use of Spectrum Thera... but there is no way the present mix you have will work. Bob Fenner>

Aggression in Marine Tank; Overcrowded  – 5/14/07
Hello WWM crew,
<Hi.>
I have recently added a gold stripe maroon pair to my 55 gallon tank. (other inhabitants include a Kole tang, a valentini puffer, and a couple of damsels I used when cycling the tank,)
<...I trust you know there are better ways to cycle your aquarium than with live animals? And personally I don't like to see Kole tangs in anything less than a 75.>
my problem is that when I came home today I noticed that the larger clown had some damage to some of its fins, should I presume that this was caused by the puffer
<Would be a prime suspect yes...you have a lot of "scrappy" fish in a relatively confined water volume.>
and if it was is this normal.
<Puffers are notorious fin nippers.>
will the clowns damaged fins grow back,
<With pristine water quality and a good diet, yes. However, she needs to be separated from the aggressor.>
and should I get rid of the puffer.
<...If he/she is the aggressor.>
also I would like to add a yellow tang to my tank
<Too large for your tank, which overcrowded as it is. And you also run into compatibility issues with the Kole tang...which is more confined than it should be as well.>
of course this will be after I get rid off the damsels.
<Would be a good idea anyway.>
would the yellow tang be a problem with these fish.
<Yes.>
thank you
<Adam J.>

Purple Tang Care. Tangling With Tang Husbandry Issues!  - 04/20/07
Dear Crew
<Scott F. your Crew member tonight!>
I appreciate all the sage advice I have received over the years from the Crew and come to you once again for some guidance.
<We're glad to be here!>
I have perused the FAQs on WWM and other sites relating to the Purple Tang (Zebrasoma xanthurum) and am still a little concerned about my ability to provide a suitable home for one of these gorgeous fish.
<I'm really happy that you are concerned...So important to consider many angles of husbandry when contemplating keeping any animal! Good for you!>
The concern relates to aquarium size.  Some of the posts regarding their care stated the specimen in question was being housed in a "46 Bowfront" or "in my 50 gallon reef tank".  Advice was proffered regarding nutritional needs, HLLE treatment, etc with no admonishment regarding the size of these aquariums.  I have seen recommended minimum aquarium sizes ranging for 20 gallons (which I would never consider!) to 100 gallons (which I am unable to provide).  I feel confident in identifying a healthy specimen;
am aware of, and can provide, their nutritional needs; prepared to treat HLLE should it ever come to that; and have the experience and motivation to provide the stable environment they need.  
<All good to hear>
The question (bet you thought I would never get there :-))  Do you feel I have a MORE than reasonable chance of providing a suitable environment in a 36x18x18 (50G) aquarium with approximately 75 lbs of live rock arranged with swimming room and hiding places?  
<Well, to be honest, I'd be hesitant to recommend any Tang, including Zebrasoma species, in anything less than a 6 foot long tank. These fishes, although certainly not the largest of the Tangs, require significant amounts of physical space. They are active fishes, that are accustomed to foraging over large areas in the wild. To "rat hole" a fish of this nature into a tank that doesn't afford a lot of room to maneuver is really a sort of cruel fate, IMO. Kind of like having to spend the rest of your life in your living room...sort of comfortable- for a while. Also, these active fishes consume a great deal of food, and larger water volumes also offer better dissolution of the copious amounts of metabolic waste products that these grazers produce. You sound like a very conscientious aquarist, so I know that you'll understand and appreciate my admonition about space and Tangs.>
His/her tank mates would be a couple of shrimp (Lysmata ...) and perhaps one of the Red Sea Dottybacks or flasher wrasses.  I have room for one more tank and it is definitely limited to a 36" footprint.  What do you think of the probability of providing a long term home for one of these fish given
this scenario?  Caveats?
Regards,
Barry
<Again, Barry- if anyone could provide great care for this fish, you'd be the one! It's just that the space requirement is so critical for long-term success with these fishes. Do consider continuing to work with smaller fishes, or those that have lesser space requirements. On the other hand, if you can bear to sacrifice some of your other aquariums (you do have several, right?), you might be able to create one larger system that could better accommodate such fishes...food for thought, anyways! Best of luck to you! Regards, Scott F.>

Schooling PB Tangs  8/25/06
Bob,
<Scott>
Re - this statement - "On the issue of how many, one is the magic number for all but the more huge (thousands of gallons) systems."  My client has a strong affinity for the Powder Blue over all other tangs.  Would his 1300g (8x8x30)
<Neat... but man oh man... not easy to work in!>
be large enough to keep a small school in your opinion?
<Mmm, yes>
And if so, how many would you keep?
<Three>
  It's a very, very decked out system and will be peaceful and understocked (by normal aquarium standards).  They would be the fish showpiece of the aquarium, next to only a Naso Tang.
Scott
<Could try five, but I'd go with three... that are super-clean... at least thoroughly dipped/bathed... Am sure you know the route. Bob Fenner>

Insomniac Tang   7/26/06
Hi guys, your thoughts on this would be appreciated. I have a blue Atlantic tang, which I collected about three years ago at about 1.5". He is housed in a 180 FOWLR and has since grown to about 6", in  excellent health. No unusual tankmates. During the day, he is a normal swimmer and grazer and not abnormally skittish, a typical tang. At night, though, he  drives me crazy.
The tank is lit with 4 moonlight LEDs.
<Likely the cause of trouble here>
Mr. Tang, unlike his tankmates, does not rest. Instead, he swims rapidly back and forth. Over - and over- and over- for hours. I have yet to see him rest, except during daylight, and then not much. He seems none the worse for this, which he has been doing for
years. I have kept more than  a few tangs, but have never seen this behavior; I have come to the conclusion that there is nothing amiss I can fix - but I would welcome any comments.  Thanks, Steve.
<I would turn down if not off these night-time lights... This fish "sleeps" during nighttime hours... not getting rest due to the lack of periodicity... Bob Fenner>

Tangling With Tangs   4/28/06
Hi crew,
<Scott F. your Crew member tonight>
Thanks for your awesome work!
<You're quite welcome! We're thrilled to bring it to you!>
I have read many of you FAQs about Tangs, and the opinions given by the crew were some times different. I have read answer from Bob Fenner saying that a small hippo tang (2-3 inch) could do well for a while in a tank as small as a 55gal and other answer from the crew saying that this fish should not be put in a tank smaller than 75gal.
<Really a question that has lots of possible answers, because there are a lot of possible variations- such as tankmates, filtration capabilities, husbandry techniques employed, etc.>
I have a 65 gal tank( the 3 feet long model) and would like to put a small tang Hippo, Yellow, Kole or other). I would take it small, around 2 inch. Is it a bad idea? Which one should be my best bet?
Thank you very much for your help
Steve
<Well, Steve, I have a personal rule that I would not keep any tang in a tank less than feet in length, and I wouldn't even consider more than one in anything less than six feet in length. Sure, you could start a very young Tang in a smaller tank, but only if you have a much larger aquarium to move it to in the near future. Too many people start keeping these fishes in smaller tanks, with the noble intention of "moving them up" to a larger tank in the near future. Unfortunately, the reality is that the larger tank is not always available (due to a variety of factors, such as economics, etc.), and the fish is doomed to spend the rest of its life in a tank that is too small for it to leave anything close to a normal life span. If you do have a larger tank available, I'd opt for  the Yellow or the Kole, myself, as they could do very well in a 6 foot, 150 gallon tank in the long run. The Hippo reaches a very large size, and requires a large tank, IMO (like 240 gallons or more) to be happy in the long run. As you are gathering from my response, Tang husbandry is not to be entered into lightly. I commend you for doing the research ahead of time, before taking the plunge. I wish you luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Too Much Tang Flesh? - 03/11/06
Just a quick question.
<<Ok>>
Am I overstocked?
<<Short answer...yes.>>
I have 4 tangs- A powder blue, scopas, large 5-inch sailfin and a blue tang, also have a 4-inch checkerboard wrasse, coral beauty, royal Gramma, 2 clowns, longnose Hawkfish and a sixline wrasse.  To me this sounds like a lot of fish.
<<It is...and some get big.>>
They are all happy with no fighting in my 135 gallon.  I have a 55 gallon refugium and a 40 gallon sump all connected.  There's about 200 pounds of live rock and various clams and inverts?  What do you think?
<<Easy for me to say I know...but you should find other/better homes for the Sailfin, Powder blue, and Blue tangs.  The Sailfin can reach 18" in length, and depending on which "Blue" tang you have...Paracanthurus hepatus can grow to a very "beefy" 14-inches while Acanthurus coeruleus can reach about 17-inches...as for the Powder blue, potential is 24-inches.  But, it is very likely none of these fish will ever reach maturity/these sizes before succumbing to social/psychological/developmental retardation issues from being kept/grown in a "too small" system.  Mature sizes aside, it's my opinion that tangs as a whole need much more space than most any other commonly available aquarium fish of comparable dimension.>>
I was hoping to add a couple of bottom dwelling gobies.
<<Remove the tangs and all sorts of options open up.  I think tangs are beautiful and amazing fish and I understand their attraction, but I feel many, if not most, are unsuitable for the average home aquarium.>>
thanks a lot
tb
<<Very welcome.  Regards, EricR>>

Talkin' bout my setup... pent. with three acanthurids   2/26/06
Hi all.  I love your site and appreciate all the help you do for me and everybody else.  I just want to run my setup by you because my Hippo tang
has been rubbing on the rocks and I just see want to see what I can do to make a better life for my fish.  I have a 60 gal. corner tank that’s 2’ x 2’
  x 2’with the front corner knocked off that has  been running for 2 years (I have had it for one).  So it is diamond shaped when viewed from above. It is
a reef tank. With Florida live rock.   I’m not sure of the exact weight of my live rock but it takes up 1/3 of the volume of the tank. There is an
under gravel filter with 2 risers coming up I’m scared to take out    The fish are:
1 - 2” Yellow tang
1 -2.5” Hawkfish
1 -2.5 Blue damsel
1 -1.5” Clarkia clown
1 -1.5” Hippo tang (I got a month ago)
1 - 3” Naso tang (i got 5 days ago)
<... this last is not suitable for this sized, shaped system... Even the other two acanthurids can become problematical here>
Inverts are
Fire shrimp
Brittle star
Astrea snails
Blue leg hermits
There are a Hammer coral ( that is 8 inches from the light) and Green Button polyps and some Pink Xenia.
I have an Aqua-c Remora skimmer with the Maxijet 1200 power head.  A Jebo 110w pc light. With an actinic and regular bulb in there.  An over flow box
going down to my sump with a 2 month old, Bob Goemans style plenum sump.   Built exactly to his specifications.  With Chaeto macro algae. How long
should I run the light for on the sump?
<Ten, twelve hours... have it overlap your main tank>
Will my  Wal  Mart light strip work?  
<Yes>
I run my PhosGuard in there too. I have a canister filter with the unbleached cotton fabric inside that I use to just to filter the water.  I
clean the filter every week.  I have a Jebo 300 w heater.  I had a problem with micro bubbles so I built a bubble trap in the tank. Inside the bubble
trap is some Caulerpa prolifera. For circulation I have a small power head that pumps around 250 gph.
Water parameters are: (tested with red sea kit)
Sal. .023
Temp 82
Ph 8.0
Alk  says high?
<Hello back to it>
No3 2.5 ppm
No2 .025
Amm. 0
Po4 1 ppm (down from 2. am working on that)
<Good>
Cal.460
I was using the Calmax by WM research 2 part cal/alk buffer till it ran out.   I just got the Sea Chem Reef complete , calcium ,plus, builder this week
and did my first dose of those, to their specifications.  Am trying to get my already growing coralline algae to grow faster. I do 5 gal. a week water
changes and I vacuum the gravel with water changes too. i use a heater to make up my water and i aerate the tap water for 24 hours. then i use Sea
Buffer from Aquarium systems to raise the ph and i use Instant Ocean salt. There is not any algae problems. Just some coralline algae and light, dark
green algae on the glass that my sponge scrubber wont get off.  Is the razor scraper ok to use on the glass?
<Yes... all but the Naso being there is okay to mighty fine... the Paracanthurus will scratch a bit (it's their nature)... I would trade out the Naso. Bob Fenner>

Just for Fun! Tank Pictures - 01/05/2006
http://www.professionaldocs.com/Reef/Reef_0001.wmv
Giséle Veilleux
<Thanks for sharing with everyone. Looks good, but I've got two things for you. The 75 is too small for the tangs ultimately. Also, I think you have some dietary issues to address. The Yellow Tang appears a bit washed out and the Blue Tang is showing some HLLE. Otherwise great pics. Thanks again for sharing. - Josh>

Re: Another Large Fish in Too Small of a Tank 11/26/05 (That Took a While to Answer!)  12/3/05
Ted,
Thanks for the advice, it is well noted, I will wait until my next tank is up and running (greater than 210 gal)
Thanks again, Bryan
<<Thank you. The Purple and the Naso will both appreciate the larger accommodations. Good luck with the larger system - Ted>>

Surgeon Fish and Shrimp - Too Little Water Volume 10/25/05
I have a 20 gallon tank that has been up and running for over a year and a half. Most people say that the tank will never last but I am already propagating the corals that I have in the tank.
<Glad to hear of your success. I understand why you may have met some opposition when setting this tank up, tanks this small are usually quite unstable but with discipline you can make it work.>
I would like to add maybe a shrimp or a lobster but I am afraid to since I have heard that my clown surgeon 
<Grows much too large for this system.> 
will eat them if they molt. 
<A shrimp (depending on the species) would make a good inhabitant for this tank, the tang will generally leave them alone. The lobster however is not such a good idea. Most will not only outgrow your given tank but will eat smaller fish and possibly harm sessile inverts.> 
My tank stock is as follows:
one 3" clown surgeonfish
<He needs to be moved to a larger system as soon as possible.>
two Ocellaris clowns
two green star polyp coral (they were one but I propagated them)
Orange Button Polyps
Blue striped mushrooms (propagated throughout tank)
Spiny Gorgonian
hermits
turbo snails
Pencil Urchin
powerhead, protein skimmer, Coralife 24 inch light
Is it ok to add a shrimp (maybe peppermint or fire) or a lobster?
<The fire shrimp (Lysmata debelius) is probably the best choice, Adam J.> 

Re: Surgeon Fish and Shrimp - Too Little Water Volume Follow-up 10/25/05
I have another question concerning the Clown Surgeonfish. Will he be okay with a Regal Blue Tang in a 55 gallon FOWLR tank?
<Generally speaking the Clown Tang (Acanthurus lineatus) is quite aggressive and will be intolerant of other tang species, and unfortunately a 55-gallon is insufficient to house this one tang let alone another. So I would advise against it.>
If so... will he begin to change colors in that tank or does he need to be around full-grown before he changes colors?
<If we are talking about the same species (Acanthurus lineatus) I’m not sure what color change you are speaking of. Even the small juveniles I have observed have relatively the same amount of color as the adults, sometimes the horizontal lines are not as defined but generally appearance is the same, Adam J.> 

Tangs, Territory - 09/13/05
A bit of a history and a plea "LET ME KEEP THE TANGS"
<<Mmm...>>
The system is four feet in length, and is 55 gallons with 60lbs of live rock and live sand, the N02, N03, NH3, P04, all negative or minimal, pH 8.2, SG 1.015 <<Yikes!  This needs to come up... 1.024-1.025 please>>.  The tank is 8 months old, and gets 15 gallon water changes every 3 weeks, using Deionized water, and the only livestock I had in the tank before the tangs and the Koran were 2 small clowns (1.25inches) and a three stripped damsel (bout 2 inches).  I am getting vibes from the response that I got from you guys is that it was not a good idea to buy the tangs or the Koran, (BTW the tangs are about 1-1.5inches, and the Koran is about 2 .5 inches).
<<The tangs can grow to more than 12 inches (and a very robust and active/nervous fish as well) and the angel to 18 inches.  I can only imagine the developmental retardation you will be subjecting these fish too in this size system.>>
I am not sure if you mean to say get rid of the new guys because they are difficult to keep, or because the damsel will kill them?
<<The damsels you have are VERY aggressive and quite capable of doing serious harm to the juvenile tangs and angel.  The difficulty in keeping the "new guys" comes from the fact they are entirely unsuitable for your tank.>>
I would rather get rid of the damsel than the tangs or Koran. (Any ideas on how to catch a three stripped damsel?) <<a small barbless fish hook and 2 lb monofilament...seriously.>>, and if you don't think I should keep the tangs or Koran regardless of getting rid of the damsel <<That's what I think...>>, if I can, what species would you recommend?
<<Your tank is really too small for any tang in my opinion...as for angels, one of the dwarf or pygmy angels (Centropyge sp.) would be a good candidate.>>
Because the LFS said these would work just fine together.
<<(Sigh!)  I have no doubt...>>
Thanks for all your help.
-josh-
<<Josh, there are many beautiful fish in the trade that are more suitable for your system...enjoy the hunt... Regards, EricR>>

Yellow Tang Blues? (Selecting and Caring For Z. flavescens) 8/24/05
Good Day!
<Hello there! Scott F. at your service today!>
I have a small (45 gallon) reef set-up. It's been up and running very successfully for 3 years now. I have a question - I have several fish that have lived very peacefully and apparently healthy for most of the 3 years. I vary the food given, since some of the fish are herbivores (Yellow Tang/Zebrasoma flavescens & Hippo Tang/Paracanthurus hepatus) and some are carnivores (Percula Clownfish/Amphiprion ocellaris). I feed dried Omega One
flake, frozen brine, Emerald Entrée & Mysis shrimp (not all at once...lol) All of the fish seem healthy but I've lost several Zebrasoma flavescens over the past few years. The Hippo tang is doing well as are all of the other fish. The Yellow tang appears healthy until I find it dead or almost dead. I figure it must be the diet since I can see no parasitic clues and all of the other fish are doing well. I feed sparingly once to twice per day and all of the fish seem to eat voraciously. I say sparingly since I know the uneaten food will feed all of the unwanted items in my tank. Any clues to what I'm doing/not doing?
Thanks for the assistance.
J.T. Craddock
<Well, before we look at the possible causes of your bad luck with the Yellow Tangs, I have to get up on the soapbox for a minute. I'm sure that you are aware, but the P. hepatus Tang will require much larger quarters in the very near future if it is to live anything close to a natural lifespan. These fish can and will get quite large, and they require very large amounts of physical space to live a long, healthy life. I'm sure that a larger tank is in the future, right? Anyways...off the soapbox and on to the problem! I think that there are a few potential issues here. First, these fishes are often subject to shipping traumas. The majority of the Yellow Tangs collected for the trade come from the best source, Hawaii, and are collected well and shipped quickly. Yellow Tangs from other sources don't always fare as well. These fishes need to eat constantly, and typically, by the time they reach the LFS, they are already quite deprived of food. When selecting specimens from the LFS, be sure to choose fish that are not showing signs of malnutrition, pinched-in stomachs, faded color, red marks on the fins, etc. Additionally, make sure that you employ a quarantine regimen for all new fish, particularly Tangs. Not only does the quarantine period give you the opportunity to observe the fishes for signs of infections and to treat them before introduction to your display-it gives your new fish the chance to eat and recover from their journey to the LFS. These fishes are voracious consumers of algae, and should have a regular "supply" of algal-based foods available constantly. You should utilize fresh macroalgae, such as Gracilaria parvispora ("Ogo"). You can order Gracilaria from e-tailers such as my favorite, IndoPacific Sea Farms (www.ipsf.com). Last, but not least, make sure that you maintain very high water quality at all times. Employ aggressive protein skimming, regular, frequent water changes, and common sense husbandry practices. Hopefully, these tips will point you in the right direction. It really sounds like you're doing things right...just consider a larger tank down the line! Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>

A Tale Of Two Tangs (In Too Small A Tank) - 08/15/05
I have a 55 gallon tank.  The order I got my fish were: blue hippo tang now 3 inches, solon fairy wrasse now 4 inches, yellow tang now 6 inches, flame angel now 5 inches, and flame hawkfish now 4 inches.
<<You're overstocked my friend.>>
I had originally gotten the yellow tang because the blue tang was constantly pestering the fairy wrasse.  Nothing aggressive, but just following him almost as if trying to school and the wrasse wanted no part of this.  The problem I'm having is that the yellow tang has taken over the tank.  He is constantly going after the flame angel using his tail to back him into a corner.  He has already intimidated the other fish to be in constant hiding.  When I put him in a lee's fish net breeder to see if a "time out" would work the other fish became more active.  But once released he went back to his aggressive ways.  He was in the isolation breeder for a week.  Is there anything else I can do to calm him down or is he just too big and dominant for the size tank and fish in it?
<<BINGO!  The Hippo Tang will quickly outgrow (to 12") this tank as well.  Neither tang is suitable for this tank in the long term...do see about swapping them with your LFS for store credit and research/purchase fish more suitable to spending a lifetime in your system.>>
Thanks for your help
<<Regards, EricR>>

Tang Space 7/26/05
Hi Guys.
<Hey, Mike G with you this morning>
I appreciate your help in the past and I now have a new question which I couldn't find on your frequently asked questions area.
<It's always good to add to the site's content.>
My largest salt water tank is 400 gallons and has been up and running for almost 7 months. I have immaculate filtration, keep a close eye on water parameters, a great protein skimmer, uv sterilizer, 400 pounds of live rock and 300 pounds of live sand.
<Sounds very nice.>
I currently have 2, 5" yellow tangs, one 6" hippo, one 4" sailfin, and one 5" Atlantic blue tang, a 5"lunare wrasse, a 4" red Coris wrasse, a 5"harlequin tusk, a 6" queen angel a 5" blue chin trigger and a 5"niger trigger.
<This could be a problem when they increase in size/territoriality>
I've had a 3" purple tang  ( I ordered a 5" one but he was in such great shape and eats like a horse that I couldn't pass him up) in my 55 gallon quarantine for the last 2 weeks and in 2 more weeks would like to make him the last fish in this system as many of these guys get really big and I am sensitive to overcrowding.
<Right.>
The tang mix I have currently is very good with all of them being gradually introduced, and only marginal occasional picking at each other. Do you think with a system this large, ( 8 feet long, 3 feet wide and 2 1/2 feet high acrylic)  and close monitoring I can add the purple to the mix.
<Possibly.>
If not my only other humane option (size wise) is to put him in the "murderous" tank with a 7" clown trigger, a 7" aggressive passer angel, a 8" miniatus, a 12" Gymnothorax fimbriatus, and a  20" snowflake eel,  which are the only inhabitants in a 120 gallon tank which mirrors the 400 in every aspect (i.e., ratio of rock, sand and filtration per gallon). I could keep him in the 55 for a while and grow him as I also have a 29 gallon hospital tank,  but the 55 is bare bottom with no rock sand or algae except what I feed him and I feel sorry for the guy to be kept in these bare conditions any longer than necessary.  
<I'd give the 400 a try. At the first sign of a problem, remove him. Obviously there's nowhere else you can put him, so returning him would be a valid option at that point. Let's hope it does not come to that.>
I love my fish and spend a lot of time watching and enjoying them and I like to get your advice from time to time as you have never steered me wrong in the past. Thanks in advance for your help.
<Not a problem. Good luck! Mike G>

Small Tank, No Tang - 07/13/2005
Hi,
<Hello.>
I have a 37g tank with an arrow crab, a clarkii clown, a bubble tip anemone, 2 damsels, and a cardinal.  Can I add a yellow tang?  
<I would strongly urge against any tang in this relatively small system.  Tangs not only get large-ish, but absolutely require a great deal of swimming space....>
If not, what other semi-large fish can I get?
<Assuming this is a standard sized 37g tank (e.g., rather tall, not very deep front-to-back), I would not add any more fish to this system, and especially not a sizeable fish.  Honestly, even were the tank a "better" shape (short, long, and deep), I would still not stock the tank any further.  There's just not a lot of room for error.>
Thanks,
Bryan Cochran
<Wishing you and your fishes well,  -Sabrina>

Blue Tang...Or...How To Overstock A 29 Gal. - 05/29/05
I have a 29gal reef tank that houses 2 percula clowns, a sixline wrasse and five green Chromis. Corals include candies, a red brain, several buttons polyps and mushrooms.
<<You're pushing the stocking limits on this tank...might want to consider reducing the Chromis to three.>>
Lighting consists of a 65 watt true actinic blue and a 65 watt 10000k day lamp. My question pertains to a blue tang. I know my tank is way too small to house a tang
<<Then follow your gut and don't get one.>>
but I want one so badly that I have made a deal with my LFS that I will buy a small one and trade it in when it becomes too big for another small tang. I would then keep doing this until I get a larger tank. Is this a stupid idea?
<<Well since you ask <G>, I think this is a dreadful idea. Putting aside whether the LFS will remember/honor any such bargain...or whether you will "know" when the tang is "too big" (likely will die from stress long before)...what you are/will be putting the fish through is just dreadful. These fish are large, robust, and active...they need room to SWIM and GROW. You will be subjecting this fish to a stunted and greatly shortened life, please do reconsider. I couldn't recommend this fish if your tank was three times the size.>>
Will this harm the fish or tang?
<<The whole tank will suffer in the long term. Regards, Eric R.>>

Acanthurus japonicus system
Resending with original as requested.  Granted the A. japonicus may not be well suited for 55 gallon 48" long. Will
a 120 gallon that is 48" long still be too small?
<Should work out about right. Bob Fenner> 

Difference in spines Yellow Tangs
Hi,
A few months ago, I found an article on the web that said the size and bright white color of the spine at the base of the Yellow Tang's tail indicated the sex (of course, I can't find it now). Is that fact true (or is there anything that indicates the sex)? 
<I think this is not factual... have dived with large Yellows (in Hawai'i) and seen individuals (about plate size) that appeared to be "full of eggs"... their caudal peduncle spines are not different in color>
If so, we may change our plans to add a Hippo and add a smaller second/female Yellow instead (if it is true, ours is a male).  We have not been able to quite decide if even our 6 foot tank is indeed big enough to keep a hippo happy as an adult.
<It is>
It sounds like they like to swim distances and the Yellows are more grazers? 
<I do agree with this Zebrasoma tangs period are roamers... the Paracanthurus stay in about one area>
Also, if sexing the Yellows isn't possible - would a smaller Purple work (I thought it was an absolute no, but have been reading recently that if the Purple is smaller and they are added together it would work)?
<Should work out fine in this size system... some jousting, chasing at first, but not likely any real damage>
We will take your advice and scratch the Yellow Eye as a possible choice with the Yellow.
Thanks!!
Debbie
<Welcome. Bob Fenner> 

Kole Tang and ich problems
Hi WWM crew.
<Hello Joe>
I have a new 55 gallon reef tank that I started like 2 months ago. As of now I have 2 true perculas, Capnella everywhere (It splits almost everyday), and green star polyps. Last night my Kole tang lost the horrible battle with ich which he caught Sunday night. I have no idea how it happened but it did. On Saturday I added a plant bunch of Caulerpa and cleaned out the canister filter. When I first added fish to my tank about 3 weeks after the crabs and snails I added a small True and a yellow tang. The Tang came down with ich the first 2-3 days and I was able to cure him of it. A week later it got it again and died the night I treated it with freshwater and copper for about 5 minutes in a 5 gallon bucket. Foolish of me I added another clown a week later and he had a minor case of ich but went away. I waited 4 weeks with the temp. At 80 degrees to speed up the crypt life cycle. One day at work (I used to work at my LFS) we got a nice 2 inch Kole Tang in. He was there for 2 days at 30 bucks but I was able to get him for $13. I took him right away because I love these tangs. He was eating a bunch of stuff off my rock for the first two weeks and then on Sunday he was hiding in his cave during the day. I thought I spooked him because they are shy fish. Well Monday comes around and when I got home from school he was still in there so I pocked a brush inside to get him out and I saw one big spot on his side with tiny white spots of ich. He went back in and came out 2 hrs later and was lying against the rock not moving but gilling. I filled a bucket of saltwater from my tank in a 5 gal bucket with a teaspoon of stress coat and 3/4 teaspoon of MelaFix (the only medication I had on hand), I also added an air pump and heater. Well he was floating around but still alive and I went to bed. This morning I found him dead at the bottom, another tang I lost to ich. What should I do to my tank? I know I should take out my clowns and QT them and let my tank fallow for 4 weeks. My clowns never get ich (knock on wood) but if they do I will definitely QT ASAP. I'm about to run out and buy a quarantine tank. What is a good size? I am thinking of buying a regal tang in the future. How long should I wait till I add more fish and what else should I do to it? 
<Joe, your tank is not nearly aged enough for adding tangs. I might point out that you will have better luck if you quarantine the fish before adding into your tank. Also sounds like your adding fish much too fast before the bio filter has a chance to adjust. I will paste a couple of sites you should read on both tangs, and quarantining. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/tangs,.htm  and http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quaranti.htm  Better luck in the future. Another point...Your 55 will be too small for the tangs. As they grow they will need a larger tank. James (Salty Dog)> 

Too Many Tangs in Too Small of a Tank (2/2/05)
Hi, 
<Hello. Steve Allen with you tonight.> 
Nice to talk to you guys once again.  I have a 46 gallon bowfront with about 50 pounds of live rock and some basic corals (polyps and mushrooms), 1 Naso tang (@ 7 or 8" long) and a yellow tang, full grown. 
<A Naso Tang has no place in such a small tank. It will grow to 18" and belongs in a tank of at least 240 gallons. It is already too big for your tank and it is cruel to keep it there. A full-grown Yellow is out of place too. No responsible aquarium book author recommends anything smaller than 75 gallons.> 
Not too confrontational with each other although the Yellow tang was quite ticked off when I introduced the Naso tang. <Understood. I've seen this. Be glad if they are actually getting along now. I had to pull an Achilles from a 180 that my Yellow Tang was unwilling to share.> 
The yellow tang tolerates the Naso pretty well now. 
<At least while you're watching.> 
I also have 2 percula clowns, one royal Dottyback and a sharknose cleaner goby. I also have recently purchase 3 peppermint shrimp because I have a Aiptasia (I think that's what its called)... 
<correct> 
... where some anemones have begun to grow on the live rock and on the sides of the tank walls. I was told that the peppermint shrimp would eat the Aiptasia, and unfortunately they have not done anything since I bought them a last week. All the shrimps do is hide within the live rock. 
<They are probably eating something else, and may never eat the Aiptasia. Been there, done that. Not all will eat Aiptasia, and many "Peppermint" shrimps are actually not of the genus that eats it. They are often misidentified at the store.>
Anyway, back to my original question. Two days ago I bought 3 small hippo tangs (beautifully colored shocking blue specimens, that appear to be very healthy) each about 4 to 5 inches long and put them in my ten gallon Quarantine tank which I plan on keeping them in there for 4 weeks. (I wanted obtain either one large hippo or a small group of smaller ones.) But decided on the 3 smaller ones. 
<Bad choice. Minimum tank size is 125 for a single specimen. Your purchases so far suggest that your eyes are bigger than your tank.> 
I have had the hippos for about two days now and they are mostly curled and wedging themselves within the live rock. 
<They do this when scared and anxious.> 
Once in a while they come out for a short time and then retreat back to the rock. Is this normal? 
<Very common for new acquisitions.> 
I'm not sure if they are eating yet, but I think they pick at the food I put in not really chasing after it. I'm feeding them frozen Mysis and Spirulina flakes. I will also try the dry seaweed sheets that I use in my main tank that my other tangs love. 
<These are reasonable things to try and should work over time.> 
They seem to be quite nervous about swimming around the tank like most other fishes do. Is this normal? 
<Again, yes.> 
Now, my big concern is the royal Dottyback. This little bastard of a fish has already caused my green Chromis' to disappear one by one.( A total of about 5) 
<Yes, very mean. They have been know kill much larger fish by eviscerating them.> 
Also my yellow tailed blue devil has disappeared and one of my percula clowns also has vanished. I strongly believe that the culprit was the Dottyback based on what I have read about this fish. I have also witnessed him chasing my poor sharknose goby sometimes. 
<It will very likely eventually "disappear" this one too.>
Well, do you think that it would be a good idea to bring this Dottyback back to the fish store? I am quite concerned that he will harass the hippos once they go into the main tank after quarantine. 
<You should take the Hippos back. If the Dottyback doesn't kill them, the Yellow will either kill them or scare them to the point that they will starve to death. You also need to either return the Naso or get him a proper-sized tank. You need to accept the fact that a 46-gallon tank is a small tank by marine standards and choose only fish that belong in a small tank. Even your yellow tang should not be kept in there.> 
I also think that he is scaring the peppermint shrimp and causing them to hide. 
<Possible, but these are timid shrimps anyway. I seldom see mine, and it is the only motile creature in the tank. I thought he was dead when I didn't see him for about 10 days, but eventually came out again.> 
Also, do you think that the size differential of the small hippos to other larger tangs will be a problem for the smaller hippos? 
<Yes.> 
I figured a group of 3 little ones is harder to chase than one larger one, and they can school together for protection. 
<I think you figured wrong.> 
Thanks again, Edward K 
<I'm sorry to be the bearer of harsh and disappointing truths, but if you study the Tang issues I brought up, you will find that the overwhelming majority of marine aquarium experts, including all of the marine aquarists advising on this site, will agree with what I have said--that is, none of the Tangs you own should be kept in a 46-gallon tank.> 

Ongoing A. japonicus review
Thank you Matt.  My tank is 65g FOWLR with 70 lbs. of live rock.  Is my tank
big enough to accommodate this tang (Acanthurus japonicus)?
<Not in my opinion, at least not when full grown.  This would also explain the aggression between the tang and the wrasse.>
  If not, what is
the maximum size this fish can grow until I have to move him to a larger tank?
<Hmmm, good question.  I would err on the side of caution here.  But it sounds like he (or the wrasse) might need to be moved soon if things don't change.>
 He is also changing color VERY often, he's lighter brown far more than he is
darker brown?  Could this be happening because my tank isn't big enough
(keeping in mind he's only been in my tank for four days so far)?  What color is this
tang's natural color, the darker brown or the lighter brown?
<Surgeonfish (and lots of others) will change colors in response to light, mood, feeding, all sorts of things.  It's hard to say why it's doing it.  Your best bet to see the 'natural' color is to look at some online pics, or you could attach us a pic if you can.>
Thanks so much,
Brett
<No prob!  Glad to help,
Matt.>

Tortured Tangs
I just bought a Naso tang Saturday that just past.  He is being very
selective to what he wants to eat.  I have recently over the past couple of
days started clipping algae in the tank 2 x a day.  and its get gone.  First
let me say I have a 55 gallon tank with a purple and yellow tang. a fox, 2
yellow tail damsels and couple of shrimps  snails, star fish and dusters.  It
is a reef and rock tank.  he was the last thing I add... the first day or so
he was harassed  by the damsels but that died out.  Now he seems to be very
mild and not moving and I have noticed today the ick spot on him.. I am
treating the tank now with a quick ick cure.  But I have not seen him eat
like the others...I am talking to him every day encouraging him to eat and
how handsome he is  with a very quiet tone.. hoping he will pull thru this..
please help.. my ph is 8.0 and 0 on nitrate, ammonia/ I have a skimmer also
and strong filtration system....Please help I don't want to lose him..
J.T. Hagans,
>>>Hello Janerio,
The minimum size for even ONE of those tangs is 75 gallons if we're speaking of the yellow of the purple tang. The Naso tang needs a 135 gallon tank or so. The Foxface, again needs a 75 gallon tank. Your tank is overcrowded in the extreme, and frankly I'm a bit disturbed that you've stocked your tank in such a way, clearly not doing any research as to the needs of your animals. You need to remove the Naso tang, the Foxface and the purple tang. The yellow tang will live for some time in a 55 gallon, but you will have to remove it in a year or so. You're in for nothing but trouble if you keep the things the way they are, including disease outbreaks.
Secondly, I'm not sure what you mean by "reef and rock". Quick Cure is NOT a reef safe medication. In fish only systems, it works just fine, however you have to be careful with tangs as their skin is sensitive to the formalin in that med. DO NOT overdose it. If it's a fish only system, treating with hyposalinity is your best course of action.
If you insist on talking to your fish as a method of getting them to eat, make sure you do so in an Arnold Schwarzenegger accent. But again, very softly. This seems to work much faster than speaking normally. Unless of course you want them to eat meaty foods such as shrimp, then Christopher Walken works better.
Regards
Jim<<<

Tangs in a 55 gallon, Part Deux
Ok, I will get a bigger tank, but how do I try to save him in between time.
The yellow Naso tang is not eating.  What other types of food should I
consider feeding him... any suggestions.  And are you saying I should only
house 1 tang with a tank of the size I have?   Oh I have a rock and fish
only tank sorry for the confusion. If I get a bigger tank will this prevent
disease outbreaks in the future...any suggestions  Janeiro
J.T. Hagans
>>>Hello again,
You can treat with Hypo salinity, or a commercial ich medication. Naso tangs are on the hardy side, so you have that going for you.
Regarding tank size, I'm saying that your tank is too small for even one tang, let alone all the ones currently present. A 75 gallon is the minimum for even a yellow tang. I'm not just spewing numbers from a book, that's hard earned knowledge talking. Larger tanks do not prevent disease outbreaks, but they minimize stress, which lessens the possibility of a weakened immune response in the fish. Does that make sense?
Cheers
Jim<<<