Clnfsh brd F4

FAQs about Breeding Clownfishes 4

Related Articles: Clownfishes,

clown id 3/5/10
Hi Crew!
<Sal>
Hoping you can clear this up for me and, presumably, thousands of others.
I bought a pair of clowns, separately. They were both sold to me as A. ocellaris.
<Mmm>
In the few months before I got the second, I wasn't sure if it was an ocellaris or a percula. I did a fin-spine count to be sure when I bought the second fish so at least they match. After a little under seven months, they began spawning in January. With spawn comes more research, and I'm more confused than I was before. My research uncovered four different pictures and three different spine counts for each species. I find it hard to believe that so many online resources are confused and/or conflicting.
Check out
http://animal-world.com/encyclo/marine/clowns/truepercula.php(aw-perc.jpg)
and
http://animal-world.com/encyclo/marine/clowns/ocellaris.php (aw-fake.jpg)
and also slides two and three of
http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/anemoneclownfishprofiles/ss/sbstruevsfalsep
erc.htm(ab-perc.jpg and ab-fake.jpg). Several other sites have these switched, and many online vendors are selling both fish as A. ocellaris. So.... which is which?
<Am wondering how to put this succinctly: These fishes/species are often mislabeled as each other, and there are numerous cases of crosses/hybrids between them (and even other species of Amphiprionines)>
Is there some type of identification search engine that you know of? Would be a great thing... (hint?)
<Not comprehensive, no. Fishbase.org has the largest reference system... to scientific literature, but this as yet is not linked for free with the lit. itself... the journals, indexing tools have to be paid somehow>
Not a great picture, but the last one is my pair.
<And these are obviously not the same species, cross either. The lower fish appears to be a A. ocellaris, the upper some sort of hybrid>
Obviously, the focus was on the eggs and not the fish. The male has become quite orange, and the female has darkened considerably since the first spawn. I will snap a better photo if necessary. He was fanning the eggs and she was driving off the Sailfin,
<<That shows signs of advancing HLLE>>
so we had a lot of movement in addition to bad camera angle.
Many thanks in advance,
-Sal

Re: clown id, www.breedclownfish.com -- 03/05/10
Hi Bob-
<Hey Sal!>
Thanks for the in-depth analysis. The lower fish (male), which you believe is an ocellaris, most closely resembles the ab-perc.jpg image in my first email (the True Percula, according to About.Com). I took a cruise on Fishbase.org (GREAT site -- works partially for free) and eventually linked up to a few museums. A unanimous consensus among several authorities I chose in the Indo-Pacific area agrees with your assessment of A. ocellaris.
No doubt many are mislabeled -- apparently not in my case. The upper fish on the other hand, because of her coloring, is closer to the aw-fake.jpg
image. I'd say those two images could be color variants of the same species. I'd also say the first and fourth images look like two different species.
<Mmm, could be>
I am aware of the many hybrids (caught beautiful pics of some moolaris on your site, btw!), but I disagree with your opinion that the upper fish in my photo is a hybrid. I think she's a color variant ocellaris.
<A possibility>
I'm getting viable fry from every spawn out of these two. Also, as I mentioned previously, she has darkened since she began to spawn. I've never heard of a fertile hybrid. I think Darwin even forbids it, but I'm not sure.
<Oh, Darwin does not... assuredly. There are many such "apparently between distinct species" viable crosses>
BTW, there is a "Clown Breeding" site, which I've just discovered recently at www.breedclownfish.com. There is some great information about rotifers (never knew about them -- it's all so secret) and also a forum which is quite helpful. I don't think there's an "Everything about Clowns" site out there, but it does sound like an interesting little (?) project.
<Heeee!>
Maybe after Spring cleaning you can remind me about it;)
Thanks,
-Sal
<Thank you Sal. BobF>

clown fry fdg., reading 2/22/10
Hi Crew-
<Sal>
I've read several pages on your site on rearing clowns, and I'm still confused. I don't have the book, no, but I'm in a bit of a bind and hope you can help.
I recently hatched my second spawn. My first spawn, last month, was a total failure, no thanks to my interpretation of conflicting Internet research.
I pulled the eggs on day 3, and made sure they had good water flow in a 10 gallon. All was fine, and once it was hatching time, I cut the water flow down to just over a trickle. Not all hatched the first night, and by the second night only 40 of 113 (yes, I counted) hatched in all. The others died and whited out. I cleaned that up and replaced the rock so they have a little algae. The real problem is they're not eating. I am feeding them brine shrimp I hatch myself. Some of them are eating, but many are not.
Day one was fine -- everyone was still eating yolk sack. Day two, I lost almost half, probably to starvation. My LFS guy said to try Cyclops, which I did, but they're way too big. Fortunately, I am an expert shot with the turkey baster ;)
<You may well want to investigate the culture/use of other live foods here>
I prefer brine because the uneaten food will live until the fry are hungry.
If I can find Mysid eggs, I'll switch to those. Do you suggest I try to emulsify some frozen foods?
<Mmm, not really... What are you feeding the Artemia? You want to have a few cultures going...>
I'd hate to see them go like this after all I did to help them out so far. Also, do you have a suggestion on how to
prevent the white-out problem once the filter is slowed down?
<Really another type of culture vessel... or use of screening to keep the young out>
I didn't have any trouble up until that point even though I pulled the eggs early. I had no choice -- I had to do a water change and add some trace -- didn't want to change the chemistry and risk damaging the brood.
<Good. Best to use water from the parent's system for change outs>
Much appreciated,
-Sal
<And really a good idea to invest your time/funds in reading Joyce Wilkerson and Frank Hoff's works. Please read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/clnfshbrdfaqs.htm
and the linked files above.
Bob Fenner>

Re: clown fry -- 02/22/10
Bob-
<Salvatore!>
Thanks for the info. Found an article *late* last night about cultivating and feeding them rotifers and phytoplankton, which I will do next time.
<Worth investigating, trying>
I've got about a dozen left as of this morning. These guys look like they're eating the brine, so there may be hope ;)
<Oh yes, certainly so>
I feed the Artemia a peas & carrots emulsion I make myself.
<Interesting. Have not heard of this approach before... "Feeding the food/s" is a surefire means of supplying optimized nutrition>
Last spawn, I grew them to about 3/8" before feeding them to the fish in the display tank.
<Oh!>
I will try screening a section of the tank next time. I'll also get the book ;)
Many thanks,
-Sal
<Welcome! BobF>
Re: clown fry
Down to a small handful <frown> but they do look good. One is cruising along the surface for food (he is definitely his mother's child!).
Another few may be OK, but the others are in that nose-dive pattern of certain death. Next time...
Looked for that article -- can't find it, sorry. It was a link from a link from a link from a link from About.Com, I think. I tried commercial baby food once, but it fouled the water (they add starches). Started making my own. Decided if you don't feed them, they'll eat up their yolk sacs and be totally useless to the fry.
Just wanted to give you an update -- thanks again,
-Sal
<Thank you, B>

New to Saltwater Tanks: Clownfish Pairing/Clownfish Beh. 2/4/2010
Hi,
<Hi Scott>
I really enjoy the information on your site. I apologize if my question has been answered before but I didn't find quite what I was looking for in your archives.
<No worries.>
I've recently purchased a pair of false Perculas that had been tank buddies at a LFS since Dec 30. Since they were the only two in the tank and had been at my LFS for weeks, not to mention eating well, I figured they would
be a good choice for my first fish. The presumption was that they would be healthy and live in peace together.
<Reasonable assumption.>
Well I added them to my tank last night and all was well for the first 30 minutes to an hour. They were mellow and staying around the bottom of the tank. Then they started to get more curious and checking the tank out top
to bottom, which by the way is a 47 gallon column tank. They started to swim faster and more violently in spurts. The larger of the two, which is about an 1''1/2, started charging and picking on the smaller one. The smaller one would submit and make a "C" shape with his body.
This behavior has continued and although they both are swimming a little more casually now the bigger one seems to be attacking the smaller one more frequently. Almost every time she sees her smaller companion she'll dart
across the tank like a charging bull and stop just short of him when he makes that submitting "C" shape. This has me really concerned because I don't want the smaller one to get stressed and weak while he's adjusting to his new home.
<Make sure he has some rocks or some other structure to hide in.>
Is this typical behavior for fish in a new tank?
<Typical for clownfish that are pairing up.>
Am I worrying over nothing? If not, what should I do?
<Keep an eye on them and make sure the little one gets his share of food.
They are sorting out their pecking order and pairing up. It will take a few days to a week In time they may start breeding in your tank.>
I don't want to overreact but I really want my fish to be healthy and happy. Thanks in advance for your advice.
<Have a read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/clnfshbrdfaqs.htm >
Best,
Scott
<MikeV>
PS- I have a standard fluorescent bulb fixture and ordered at 10K bulb for it. Unfortunately it's not working and I'm having to use an older bulb that came with the fixture. It's just a standard fluorescent bulb and I'm not
sure how powerful it is, but it's definitely less than 10K. Will the fish be ok with this light until I can buy a new light fixture, which may be a while?
<As long as you don't have any light sensitive organisms in your tank, that will be fine.>

Clarkii clownfish pairing 11/14/09
Hi Crew,
<Mil>
I love your site and due to you guys I just set up my 4th reef tank. So far all good.
<Ahh!>
I am trying to get my clownfish to form a pair. I bought two 1inch Clarkii clownfish, (I bought them really small to make sure they did not already change sex) there was a lot of them in one tank in the LFS. I
introduced them to the quarantine tank. One immediately started acting dominant (I presume this will become the female). After 3 weeks of quarantine they were introduced to one of my reef tanks. There are no other tank mates.
(30 gallon tank with a lot of coral and a BTA)
<Yikes... there are often troubles when mixing anemones with "corals">
Water parameters:
Specific gravity: 1.025
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
PH: 8.4
I know that aggression before forming a pair is to be expected, but after days of being bullied my smaller clownfish is lying in a corner too afraid to move. The female is really mean.
5days ago the more dominant clown (female) started hosting in a bubble tip anemone, the other clown followed and both fish hosted in the anemone that night, but the more dominant clownfish kept biting and bulling the male and the next morning the male had severely torn fins.
<Need to be separated if so>
Currently the female is constantly chasing the male until he goes to the one corner of the tank and lies on the sand. The moment he starts moving she chases him again and nips at him.
Will these two be able to form a pair or do they hate each other?
<Could likely form such a union in time if there was enough space, some way for the one to "get away" from the aggressor>
Is it only the presence of the anemone that is increasing the aggression?
<Mmm, no... often the opposite occurs>
They seemed quite content with one another for 4 weeks.
Should I remove the anemone and let them pair up first?

The other option I can think of is to buy 2 more of these small clownfish (to disperse aggression)
and let them pair up more naturally. The part of catching the remaining 2 to return them to the LFS is what makes me think this is not a good idea. (These fishies, they're fast!)
Today I put the tank's lights off in an attempt to reduce aggression.
<What about the photosynthetic life here?>
Thanks for the help
Mel
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Breeding system, Fishes, SPS grow out 11/10/09
Hi Crew,
<Chris>
As the next stage of expansion in my basement fish room I want to set up a system for brood stock as I'd really like to try raising fish to complement my small scale SPS coral farming.
<Sounds good>
I already have the tanks I hope to use as follows -
2 of 2'x2' tanks 15" high
Sump 1'x4' 12" high
The 2 square tanks will sit next to each other, have around 14" of water depth, a small quantity of LR and added circulation. One of the tanks will have a 150w halide above, the other lit by ambient light only (light spill from the halide on the identical tank next to it and 3 halides over a tank 5' away directly in front of it)
The only residents other than fish will be snails and possibly cleaner and peppermint shrimp.
<Mmm... I'd skip the shrimp. Too likely to interfere with spawning, possibly eat young>
The sump will have a DSB (probably with macro algae) and LR, skimmer and return pump.
Right - onto the questions (bearing in mind my intention to use this system for my adult brood stock & best chance of happy fish successfully breeding)
1. Will one of these 2'x2' tanks (the one with the MH) be suitable for a pair of Tomato clowns and their Bubble tip anemone (I wouldn't usually include a anemone but these 2 have been resident in it for some years and as I intend to breed from them I want them to be a comfortable as possible)
<Should be fine... though almost everyone in Clownfish production leaves out symbiotic anemones>
2. Is the 150w halide acceptable light for the anemone? probably with a 10k or 14k bulb - I'm guessing this will be fine given the 14"water depth
<Should work>
3. Is a 2'x2' a suitable and comfortable home for a pair of Banggai Cardinals (again to breed from)?
<Mmm, yes... better to have more females, some physical structure to allow all to get out of sight>
4. Total system volume should be around 350 litres - would you agree this is a light bioload for this volume?
<Yes>
5. Would it compromise my plan to use the tank with the Banggai's (with added lighting - probably a twin 55w PC unit I have spare) for grow out of soft coral frags? Either mushroom Corallimorphs or a Sarcophyton/Xenia combo - any preference as to which would be most suitable if any?
<These can be co-cultured together>
6. For the DSB would I see any issues using ordinary play sand? I'm guessing this will be silica sand? - Aragonite is fiendishly expensive in the UK!

Many thanks as ever, let me know if you need any further detail.
Chris
<Cheers! Bob Fenner>

Mated clowns 9/6/09
Hi,
<Hello there>
I am writing to you guys yet again regarding my 54 G mixed reef tank. It has been largely successful thanks to you and your advice. The tank has 40lbs LR, sump filtration, with Deltec MCE 600 skimmer, and run carbon and phosphate remover (bulk reef supply) in a reactor. Parameters are as follows: Sp.G 1.026, Ph. 8.3, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0.5, Calcium 410, dKH 3.54, Magnesium 1200. 250 watt 10 K MH. Inhabitants include 2 false Percs pair, six line wrasse, and a royal gramma. Corals include Acros, a hammer coral, various zoos and mushrooms.
I have a "problem" in my tank that's not really a problem. I just found that my tank-bred false Percs are a mated pair!
<Most two's do become so>
However, the eggs are white and do not seem viable.
<Not this/that batch>
I've read Wilkerson's Clownfishes and she indicates that white colored eggs may indicate a lack of varied diet.
<Is possible>
I currently feed Spectrum Thera A+ exclusively. They also eat Cyclops-ease when I feed corals. Is there anything other than diet that could be affecting this?
<Mmm, possible, but not likely>
As of yet, I do not want to move the Percs to their own tank unless there is a chance of viable eggs. Any advise or direction to prior articles would be greatly appreciated.
Mike
<Really, I just urge patience at this point. Like the more popular substrate spawning cichlids, the first few "batches" from Clowns do often have "problems"... In a few more spawns I suspect the "infertility issue"
will be worked out. Bob Fenner>

Clownfish, pairing -- 08/23/09
Hi there my name is Josh and I have a question regarding clowns. I have a new 150 tall FOWLR and just got two Ocellaris clowns hoping for them to pair. One 1.5 one 1 inch. Also a 3.5 Lawnmower. My question is can you put in an already paired set in hoping for two pairs. If two have paired already (prior to being put in the tank) will the other two pair. All are same-Ocellis Clowns.
<Likely four Ocellaris will mix "well enough" in this size, shaped system... and at least two pair up. Bob Fenner>

Percula, Ocellaris Breeding? 7/26/09
Just curious if the percula clown and the ocellaris clown that just spawned in my tank can actually produce.
< Yes>
I haven't found any information from anyone that has had first hand experience with this. The percula is the female. The eggs are on the back wall of my tank and seem to have eyes.
< Sounds like they are about 7 days old.>
If it is possible how common is it?
< Clownfish hybrids are fairly common in aquariums. The Ocellaris/Percula is probably the most common.>
The percula was given to me by a guy whose tank had "crashed" and, against my better judgment, I put it in with my ocellaris just hoping they wouldn't fight. Any info would be wonderful Thanks a bunch!!
John
< Well they obviously get along! If you are interested in attempting to raise them Wilkerson's Clownfishes book is a must have. GA Jenkins >
Re: Percula , Ocellaris Breeding? 7/26/09
Thanks for your reply. I'll find that book and give it a shot :)
< You are welcome. Although lots of work , raising clownfish can be a very fulfilling. Good luck in your endeavor. GA Jenkins >

Re: In-depth resources (RMF, anything on Anemonefish families?) -- 07/01/09
I actually have another question. Someone's trying to tell me that SW begins at 1.0264, and everyone else is bowing and scraping to this guy, but nowhere else have I seen this. I always heard 1.020-1.025.
<Your friend couldn't be wronger. Seawater salinity doesn't begin at any specific gravity, since specific gravity depends on water temperature.
Normal seawater salinity is about 35 grammes per litre, which at 25 degrees C is 1.025. But at 15 degrees C, the specific gravity would be 1.027, while at 30 degrees C it's only 1.023. In any event, the cut-off point between brackish and marine salinity isn't hard-and-fast, since what we call "normal" salinity varies from place to place; in the Red Sea for example it's rather high, while in the Baltic Sea it's quite low, to the degree
that at the lowest salinity eastern half of the Baltic Sea the "marine" fish fauna includes numerous freshwater fish such as Pike, Bream and Roach.
In terms of behaviour too, it's extremely common for nominally-marine fish to spend time in brackish water, moving in and out of estuaries while feeding or through particular stages of their life cycle. Of course, in
practise there's an optimal salinity for marine fish and invertebrates, and at 25 degrees C, that's 1.025 where fish and invertebrates are being kept together. Marine fish on their own can be kept successfully at lower
salinity, and historically even down to 1.018 at 25 degrees C was recommended as sufficient for good health but less taxing (supposedly) on the osmoregulatory systems of the fish. Most books will state the
connection between specific gravity and temperature, and hydrometers will be calibrated to one particular temperature, but sadly too many aquarists ignore it, and think 1.025 is the goal, whether you're at 22 C, 25 C, 27 C, or 30 C.>
Another person is trying to tell me that in the wild, clowns live in massive family groups, and that the young stay with their parents for life.
<I've asked Bob to comment on this.>
<<Mmmm, Clownfishes show a degree of parental care... watching over unhatched eggs that are laid to an adjacent hard structure near, under the edge at times, of their hosting anemones. But hatched young are abandoned to currents, with perhaps a few of their own, other pairs offspring, tenuously "sharing" large/r symbiotic actinarians... for a time. None form "massive family groups... live with parents for life..." RMF>>
Again, I've never seen this before.
<Nor I; there are good evolutionary reasons why this wouldn't be favoured:
if parents and offspring stay together, there's a higher risk of inbreeding. So most fish species that raise their offspring eventually drive those offspring away, though in some cases allowing "teenage" offspring to remain and help rear a batch of younger offspring. That's the case with the famous Neolamprologus brichardi cichlid from Lake Tanganyika.>
I really want to get this settled in my mind.
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: More Re: In-depth resources (RMF, anything on Anemonefish families?) 7/2/09
Thanks. That makes me feel a ton better. Thanks for the help on this.
<Always welcome to my input. BobF>
Re: In-depth resources (RMF, anything on Anemonefish families?)
This might interest Bob.
http://www.coralscience.org/home/content/view/108/94/lang,english/
<Is of interest indeed... I see NealeM's concern re inbreeding echoed in this piece. Thank you for sending this along. BobF>

clown fish, repro. mostly 6/20/09
Hi, I have a 155 gal. reef tank about six years old, I have had four ocellaris clowns for over three years two are a pair, two are black two orange, they all got along until about two months ago, now the male of the
pair will not let the next male in line out of a few areas in the tank. Do you think this will stop and they all can get along again?
<Will not likely stop... the "odd fish out" should be removed>
If I have to remove some of them and I keep the black female and an orange male, if the spawn what color would the babies be?
<A mix/blend of the parents markings>
Thank You
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Clownfish Laying Eggs 6/14/09
Greetings to all who read this- so as not to exclude anyone on this great site!
< Hello >
I have a pair of clowns that- after 2 years of trying to get a reef environment created- have become comfortable enough to reproduce.
< Awesome! >
I am sad to say, as others can relate- that my initial attempt did not end on a happy note.

The fry, (or larvae as you mentioned) decided it was time to 'come to life' while we were out and they went through my filter system, (or the other fish / corals got them first)
< It figures that they would hatch at the least opportune time. >
So- as of 6/8/09 I am now on my 2nd clutch. I thank you for all the information you have here, as it helps to identify what to look for in hopes of a successful hatch.
I just wanted to share something I found online, if it's ok with your site:
www.kathysclowns.com it gives information and pictures of what to look for- which may have been going on for quite some time and someone may not have noticed it in their tanks, not knowing exactly what to look for or how many days to count, etc. I truly LOVE the work that you do here (the entire crew)
and thank you. I do have a few questions, but will try to find them in the FAQ page first as noted.
< Very nice development pictures. I booked marked the site myself for future reference. Thanks for sharing and good luck! >
Just wanted to share a KUDOS! to you. Thanks for being here!
< Thank you. GA Jenkins >
-Michelle

Feeding Baby Clown; not phyto. 2/25/09 Hello Everyone, My question is very short in nature and I hope you can help me. My LFS tells me that I can feed baby clown fish liquid phytoplankton straight from the bottle creating the "green water" effect if you will. From what I have read on your website, "green water" means something entirely different. Is there different variations of "green water"? <Mmm, yes... at least there are several phytoplankton species available... None are appropriate to feed Amphiprionine young... The "phyto" are too small to be of use> If so, how much phytoplankton should I add to a 10 gallon tank to be successful in feeding the baby clowns? <? I have been to several Clownfish hatcheries around the world over the last thirty some years... and have never seen any feeding phytoplankton period. Perhaps this material is cultured to feed types of zooplankters... that in turn are fed to Clown fry... but not in the Clowns culture space that I've ever seen/witnessed> I only plan on doing this for the first few days or so then switching to newly hatched baby brine. Thank You for Your Time, Chris

Breeding clowns and sleeper gobies 11/5/08 Dear Bob and all the team, Your site has been a great resource for me since we set up our first tank about 18 months ago. I now really need your advice or suggestions. We have a 40gal tank (red sea max) which has been up and running for 18 months. We have a pair of breeding Percula clowns, and a pair of yellow headed sleeper gobies (Valenciennea strigata) which we think have just started breeding. (Also in the tank is a lawnmower blenny, mandarin, long nosed hawkfish, and a pair of coral banded shrimp). Our first experience was with the clowns, when we discovered eggs about two weeks ago, ready to hatch. We set up a small tank, and stayed up all night and collected the fry. We were unfortunately unable to keep any alive after 2 days. (Didn't have anything to feed them.) We are unable to source any live rotifers, but have now acquired some frozen ones to try next rime around. A week later, our clown laid another bunch of eggs, which are looking like they are ready to hatch in the next 24 hours. Also, 2 days ago, the sleeper gobies have set up camp under the live rock, with the entrances all covered with the substrate. Last night, I looked into the tank for any hatched clowns, and found one had hatched. I went to work trying to transfer it to the rearing tank (10g with airstone). Then I noticed, appearing from nowhere, hundreds of tiny fish (about a quarter the size of the newly hatched clowns, ie 1-2mm in length) which were immediately attracted to the torch light. I managed to transfer as many as possible into the rearing tank. (probably around 200-300), as well as two (only 2 hatched last night) of the clowns. I am assuming that the new fish are the hatchlings fare sleeper gobies (although we are unable to see any eggs as they have burrowed under the live rock.) I can't find any information about rearing them, and only have the one spare tank to try and keep them alive. I suspect the rest of the clowns will hatch tonight. My questions are: 1. Do you think it will be OK to put the newly hatched clowns in with the newly hatched gobies. (They are about 4 to 5 times larger). Will they potentially eat them if we can get them to survive. We are going to try feeding with frozen rotifers (we cannot source live ones from anywhere here in Australia). 2. Is there anything else we can try to feed them with, or do you think the rotifers will suffice. 3. Do you know the length of the breeding cycle with the gobies? 4. Should I just try and follow the rearing methods described for the clowns. 5. Is it usual to have this many hatch at once.( ei hundreds) 6. Any other help or suggestions will be extremely useful. Like I said, the new gobies (I think) have been a complete surprise, and we are completely unprepared (equipment and knowledge) to cope, but are willing to do all we can to try. Thanks in advance, Michael (from Melbourne, Australia) <Michael, I am sorry. I do not know the answers to your above questions. Judging from the time this query has sat here, neither does the rest of the crew. With zero breeding experience I would not want to even speculate. As you likely know, Bob F. is out of net service until the 13th or so. I will be sure to share this for his input when he returns. Until then, I did find one link in particular that will certainly be of interest to you, http://www.breedersregistry.org/Articles/v4_i1_brown/gobies.htm. Googling "goby breeding" will yield quite a bit more general information for you. I do hope this helps, Scott V.> <<Also check out this great book: http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Illustrated-Breeders-Marine-Aquarium/dp/1890087718 -Sara M.>>

More Re breeding clowns and sleeper gobies 11/5/08, 11/13/08 <<RMF>> Dear Bob and all the team, Your site has been a great resource for me since we set up our first tank about 18 months ago. I now really need your advice or suggestions. We have a 40gal tank (red sea max) which has been up and running for 18 months. We have a pair of breeding percula clowns, and a pair of yellow headed sleeper gobies (Valenciennea strigata) which we think have just started breeding. (Also in the tank is a lawnmower blenny, mandarin, long nosed Hawkfish, and a pair of coral banded shrimp). Our first experience was with the clowns, when we discovered eggs about two weeks ago, ready to hatch. We set up a small tank, and stayed up all night and collected the fry. We were unfortunately unable to keep any alive after 2 days. (Didn't have anything to feed them.) <<Ahh, very common in the "history"/development of aquarists keeping such animals>> We are unable to source any live rotifers, but have now acquired some frozen ones to try next rime around. A week later, our clown laid another bunch of eggs, which are looking like they are ready to hatch in the next 24 hours. <<Mmm, a few days more than this, depending on temp.>> Also, 2 days ago, the sleeper gobies have set up camp under the live rock, with the entrances all covered with the substrate. Last night, I looked into the tank for any hatched clowns, and found one had hatched. I went to work trying to transfer it to the rearing tank (10g with airstone). Then I noticed, appearing from nowhere, hundreds of tiny fish (about a quarter the size of the newly hatched clowns, ie 1-2mm in length) which were immediately attracted to the torch light. I managed to transfer as many as possible into the rearing tank. (probably around 200-300), as well as two (only 2 hatched last night) of the clowns. I am assuming that the new fish are the hatchlings fare sleeper gobies (although we are unable to see any eggs as they have burrowed under the live rock..) I can't find any information about rearing them, and only have the one spare tank to try and keep them alive. I suspect the rest of the clowns will hatch tonight. My questions are: 1. Do you think it will be OK to put the newly hatched clowns in with the newly hatched gobies. (They are about 4 to 5 times larger). Will they potentially eat them if we can get them to survive. We are going to try feeding with frozen rotifers (we cannot source live ones from anywhere here in Australia). <<Yes to this trial. The two species can likely be reared together, starting near the same size>> 2. Is there anything else we can try to feed them with, or do you think the rotifers will suffice. <<Mmm, do look into the older Frank Hoff, the more recent Matt Wittenrich petfish titles on marine fish culture... very worthwhile, pertinent chapters on food procurement, culture... There are some small crustaceans that can be put to use here as well as various Rotifers... but again, as you state, these need to be procured, ongoing with the reproduction of the fishes>> 3. Do you know the length of the breeding cycle with the gobies? <<Mmm, only a few (2-3) days... use your search tool with the term: Valenciennea reproduction>> 4. Should I just try and follow the rearing methods described for the clowns. <<Mmm, yes>> 5. Is it usual to have this many hatch at once.( i.e. hundreds) <<Yes>> 6. Any other help or suggestions will be extremely useful. Like I said, the new gobies (I think) have been a complete surprise, and we are completely unprepared (equipment and knowledge) to cope, but are willing to do all we can to try. Thanks in advance, Michael (from Melbourne, Australia) <Michael, I am sorry. I do not know the answers to your above questions. Judging from the time this query has sat here, neither does the rest of the crew. With zero breeding experience I would not want to even speculate. As you likely know, Bob F. is out of net service until the 13th or so. I will be sure to share this for his input when he returns. Until then, I did find one link in particular that will certainly be of interest to you, http://www.breedersregistry.org/Articles/v4_i1_brown/gobies.htm. Googling "goby breeding" will yield quite a bit more general information for you. I do hope this helps, Scott V.> <<Do please report on your efforts here Michael. BobF>>

Re: breeding clowns and sleeper gobies 11/14/08 Thanks for the information Bob. <Welcome Michael> Just to keep you filled in, we put the clown and Valenciennea fry in together. The clowns all died within 48 hours, and most of the Valenciennea have also died, however it is now day 15, and there are still some of the Valenciennea fry alive (about 10 in total). We have been feeding them only the frozen rotifers, and have just started putting in some (just hatched) baby brine shrimp. <Should be about right-sized about now...> I have already purchased Frank Hoff's book, but will get the other by Matt Wittenrich immediately. (It will take about 2-3 weeks to get down here to Australia). The Valenciennea (adults) have been doing a lot of rearranging in the last 24 hours, so I suspect they are preparing their burrow. We also have another bunch of clowns which look like hatching in the next 48 to 72 hours. <Ahh!> We will keep trying to raise them, and will keep you informed of our progress. (Or lack of it, whatever the case may be.) We just don't have the time, or space to culture our own rotifers at the moment, so we will try and persist with the frozen ones. Thanks, Michael <Not hard to culture... You might be able to procure starter cultures there from a near-enough close by university... Do look about... can be easily mailed. Bob Fenner>

Signs my clown fish is undergoing a sex change 11/10/08 Hello, <Hello Jessy here> I attempted to find answers re: the above by Googling, however, I wasn't able to easily find any info. If you would please let me know, or point me in the direction of the info elsewhere, I would greatly appreciate it. <If you have two clowns the larger one will become the female. She will "charge" the male and the male is the one that lays down on its side and flips its body in submission. If you have one single clown in isolation for long enough it will become a female.> Thank you in advance, Steve Gonzalez <Regards, Jessy>

Symptoms of an Ocellaris Clownfish changing genders 10/23/08 Hello WWM Crew, <Hi> I have tried searching for symptoms of a clownfish changing from male to female. I have a 30 gallon tank with this livestock: 1 Royal Gramma, 1 Linares Wrasse, 1 Large Ocellaris Clownfish, 2 Turbo Snails. Water Conditions are all normal. I recently added a smaller Ocellaris Clownfish into the tank. I kept the new fish separated from all of the fish in a small breeder net cage. <Did you QT this fish first?> After about a week I let him join the rest of the fish, at first the larger Clown would back up into the smaller one and shake its tail into it. They had seemed to be getting along together. Today, I woke up and saw the two swimming together just fine. When I came home from work, the larger one was swimming alone, breathing somewhat rapidly (not interested in food). <A bad sign when a clown does not want food.> It also seemed to have a large what looks like poop hanging from it (brownish in color). <Something amiss here, see here for more http://www.wetwebmedia.com/clnfshdisart.htm, may just be stress from the new addition but could signal a disease as well. Watch this fish closely.> The smaller Clown seems to be swimming fine and eating normally. Could the larger Clown be turning into a female? <Probably already is.> If so are these normal symptoms? <No, there are not really any symptoms to this, except accelerated growth.> <Chris>

RE: Symptoms of an Ocellaris Clownfish changing genders, Clown Behavior 10/27/08 Thank you Chris for your response. <Welcome> I have been monitoring my Clown for the past week and it is eating like crazy again but it is still having labored breathing and it is it seems like it is being a little anti-social. <Good that he is eating again, have you checked your water parameters? Fortunately it is probably not Brooklynellosis, as the fish would most likely already be dead. May be nothing too, clowns tend to behave a little strangely sometimes.> When I approach the tank to feed it all of a sudden comes to life and is swimming normally. Water is fine and everyone else in the tank is still doing great. I am confused. <For the moment I would probably continue down the path you are on unless other symptoms occur that may point us to a more specific issue.> <Chris>

Clownfish Eggs - 6/30/08 I have a relatively full community tank and for the last year, my pair of "starter" <Starter?> clown fish have kept a clean spot on the bottom of the tank - they brushed away all of the gravel. I have no live rocks, anemones, etc. Still, they decided to breed and now I have about 100 eggs which are constantly fanned and guarded. <Not uncommon> I really enjoy the fish, but I just don't have the appropriate commitment to be a fish dad. I don't see a second tank in my future much less raising food! <Understood> If I collect the fry when they hatch and put them in a floating baby container - do I have any chance of raising any? I have read about all of the system and processes to raise these guys, but is there a super simply way that I may luck out and get a couple to survive? <Not really. These fish are pelagic plankton at hatching, not fry as we traditionally think of them. There is always a chance that one will somehow outlast predation, filters, and disease, but there is no way to rear these that I know of short of a rearing tank. Never to fear, though, these plankton will be a nutritious snack for fish, corals, etc- barbaric as that may seem, such is life.> Doug <Benjamin>

Re: Clownfish Eggs - 6/30/08 Benjamin <Doug> Thanks. "Starter" was the term I meant to convey the original fish to get the tank acclimated for others. <As I suspected. Check re: fishless cycling on Wetwebmedia.com...FYI, for future use...more humane cycling techniques.> Doug <Thanks for the dialog. Benjamin> Re: Clownfish Eggs - 6/30/08 I guess the nice part is that all of my starter fish survived . . . . until I introduced a lionfish. <On the record: A slap on the wrist! Inappropriate stocking! Off the record: You've perhaps found the only way to get rid of those pesky damsels...sneaky buggers! I jest...continued luck, Benjamin>

Percula clowns mating habits? 06/15/08 Hello! <Hello, Brenda here! > I have had these Perculas for almost a year now, bought them both at the same time, and they were the same size. 1/2-3/4 of an inch long. They have grown since, and one is 1-3/4, and the other is a little over an inch. <The larger one is the female. > I have attached a picture of the Sebae that they reside in, and yesterday I noticed that the female was picking at the live rock, with the male "gliding" along behind the female. I don't think she laid any eggs, but is this kind of action mean anything? <Cleaning of a surface, yes. However, this is not a guarantee that this is what is happening. Your clownfish seem a bit young to be breeding, however, there have been clownfish of this age that have reproduced before. If they lay eggs, you will see the male constantly fanning the eggs. More information found here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/clnfshbrdfaqs.htm > Also, I have a Flame angel and yellow tail damsel in the tank with them. Are these two keeps keeping them from doing the deed? Lol <Nope! > Thanks once again guys, it is VERY appreciated! <You're welcome! Brenda>

Re: Percula clowns mating habits?- Clownfish Mating Behavior -- 6/15/08 Thanks for the quick reply! I failed to mention that the two clowns, the flame angel, and the damsel are in a 54 gallon. Is this too small for the clowns to feel comfortable enough with the other two fish? <This is plenty of room for them to be comfortable. However, do keep an eye on the angel. They can be a bit aggressive, and not always reef safe. If it starts to bother the anemone, please separate them. > Thanks!
<You're welcome! Brenda >

Clownfish Breeding 4-29-08 I have a question about breeding clown fish. I recently bought what I thought were two tomato clown fish. I believe that one of my clown fish is a cinnamon clown fish rather than a tomato. I was just wondering if it is possible for a tomato and a cinnamon clown fish to breed together. <Yes it is possible. The Tomato Clownfish and Cinnamon Clownfish are both in the same complex, (Tomato Complex), and the Tomato Clownfish is usually very open when accepting mates. I'd say there is a good chance for babies in the future. --Yunachin>

Percula clownfish eggs about to hatch 4/27/08 My thriving 125g (40g sump) setup had to be rebuilt last year when the plumbing started leaking. Now, in a less populated tank my Perculas have spawned and the male is guarding a clutch of eggs (which appear viable - good color and the male is on the job) right between their recently cloned anemones. I still have two refugium tanks set up from last year's disaster. I could easily adapt one to fry (if I can collect some). <Can be done... may actually BE done automatically... with some being "washed over" into t/here> I could take out the pump in a 24 AquaPod and put a couple of sponge filter in the back "sump" area and get a gentle flow. <Yes> I have three fish (two clowns and a six-line wrasse) in the main system along with a couple of Sarcophytons and a some Zoanthids. Maybe 20 snails. 78 degrees, 1.025, ph stays at 8.1-8.3 using home-made two part additive. <Neat! Do send on your formulation if you would for sharing> One concern is that this small tank has a fine sand bed that is well populated with amphipods and small worms. I think the amphipods might eat the fry. <If they can catch them... usually not. The Amphipods mainly feed/stay on the bottom, the fish, mid-water> On the other hand, I understand the fry would hang in the water column while the amphipods stay on the bottom or the glass. Perhaps they would rarely meet. <Ah yes> Another concern is the transfer. I don't see any way to move the eggs. They are in a cranny between the two anemones on a large piece of live rock. So I plan to try to catch them as they hatch in some clear plastic vessel to avoid any turbulence. <Okay... Commercial breeders mostly use removable substrate in basically very plain, undecorated systems... some folks "scrape" the near-released eggs/young to move... others just move the very small fry once free-swimming> I have contacted a supplier of rotifers etc. and hope to put together an order to feed fry for a week or so - no time, I think, to set up my own cultures. <Do start this post-haste> Finally, is there any chance that any fry that I cannot transfer could survive in the main tank? <Yes... given space, luck...> Any advice will be greatly appreciated <You have read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/clnfshalloparart.htm and the linked files above? Bob Fenner>

Re: percula clownfish eggs about to hatch... and DIY suppler of 2 part SW supplement for Ca and Alk 4/29/08 Hi, and thanks for the help on my serendipitous clownfish spawn (hoping the hatch is not before Friday). You asked about my "home-made" two-part additive. Actually it is just the basic kit from www.bulkreefsupply.com. For about $50 I have a lifetime supply of calcium supplement plus alkalinity plus magnesium occasionally. Highly recommended. Thanks again, Malcolm Young <Thank you for sending this along. BobF> Follow-up from percula clownfish breeding query 6/18/08 Hi and thanks as always. I wrote on April 28 re my spawning Perculas. That spawn did not work - my experiment with a modified AquaPod may have been the problem, more likely dying rotifers. But two week later they spawned again and I collected about sixty larvae which went into a round tub (20 gallons), a la Janice Wilkerson. <A worthy reference> One mistake I made was to include a sponge filter instead of just an airstone - result was several dead larvae in the fine sponge fibers the next morning. Thirty (or so) have now survived on rotifers and then nauplii for 16 days - no fatalities since the first day. I'm doing daily 10% water changes replaced with main tank water. They seem fat and happy. <Good> My concern is that they have not metamorphosed yet. All I can think of is that the temp may be too cool (~77). Should I worry? <Mmm, no... but what exactly do you mean by "metamorphosed"? These fish should be free-swimming...> Or are they just a bit retarded? Should I order a HUFA supplement? <Is worthwhile. Such molecules can be found in popular appetite enhancers...> Some of the larvae are still thin and so I still add rotifers from time to time. <Mmm... I'd be hatching Artemia...> I've also adding a tiny pinch of dry food in the mornings the last few days, but they ignore it. By the way, this has been better than any semester of biology. <Ah yes!> Couldn't we pool our resources, design a standard methodology, and donate successfully reared fish to schools in the hope that kids could succeed (with science teacher help) and pass their success on to other schools? <Go ahead... whom would you partner with? How would you go about approaching the target audience?> The equipment needed is cheap. If it were done with all tank raised stock, there would be environmental lessons as well. Just a thought. Thanks again Malcolm Young <A good one Malcolm. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Raising Clownfish 4/25/08 Thanks for taking the time to help with my question. Well after about 3 years a pair of false Percula in my 30g decided it was time to start a family. I have about 6 days left before they hatch to get all of the items/larval tank in place to raise them. Obviously, this was an unplanned event so I don't have the appropriate cultures going. I have found a few options to obtain live rotifers that the manufacturers claim will survive 1-3 weeks under refrigeration and wanted to find out if there is any experience with this approach in terms rotifer survival and manufacturers claims. <Kind of late now but I recommend reading the Plankton Culture Manual from Florida Aqua Farms. Its tells all you need to know and more about raising Nanochloropsis oculata, green water, and Brachionus sp., rotifers. They also can provide live cultures.> I don't plan to set-up cultures and get into raising clownfish on a regular basis, but this will be a fun and educational experience for my family and me. <When the eyes become silver, hatching will be very soon, usually the next day. Is something to keep in mind. Once hatched, it will be time to move them to your rearing tank. After lights are out is a good time to do this. The fry are attracted to light, so shining a flashlight into a small area will cause them to gather where they can be taken out with a baster and moved to the rearing tank. Is best not to use any sand or live rock as there is a good chance a bacterial bloom could develop. A bare bottom tank works fine and will be easier to clean. You will need to feed the rotifers for at least two to three weeks then gradually wean them to a good (nutritious) brand of dry food such as New Spectrum. The first ten days are when the bulk of the losses will occur. Any fry surviving after that stage will have a good chance in becoming adults.> Thanks again and have a great weekend.

Replacing part of a mated clown fish pair 2/27/08 I have, or should say *had*, a pair of mated false percula clowns (I'm * pretty* sure they are *A. ocellaris *not *percula*). However, this morning the female (Ginger) had passed away. <Sorry to Hear, Mike I with you by the way> The male (Fred) is still living and looks healthy*. I am pretty sure that she died of old age. About a month ago, I noticed that the female was starting to "look old": behaving a little more sluggishly, more bony with a slightly arched spine, and coloration a little washed out. She ate normally until the end. I have had this pair for about 5 years and although I've searched for info on clown fish age haven't been able to find a definitive answer as to whether this is old for a captive clown fish. <Records suggest that for this species, 25 to 30 years would be classed as old. Although if the fish was wild caught, there would be little way to tell it's age when you received the fish 5 years ago> They've been really easy to care for and were the dominant fish in the tank. They've survived two major tank relocations, bonded with a soft Zoanthid coral, mated and laid eggs a few times. <Yes, they are quite amazing fish!> My questions are threefold: 1) Can I introduce a replacement clown to act as a new mate? I've read about aggression from the established resident clown towards any new introductions. <You absolutely can. They may be some initial aggression, but if handled properly, will be nothing to worry about> 2) Will the male accept a new mate or could he possibly become the new female? Is he too old? <Yes, if you introduce a small animal (inch or so); Yes, he will become the new female this way (in as little as 30 days if no dominant animal curtails the sex change); impossible to say how old he is in the first place so difficult to answer. This should not worry you> 3) If I do not buy a second clown, will the remaining clown survive without his partner? At the risk of anthropomorphizing, he seems sad and mopey, clinging tightly to his Zoanthid.* <Yes, he will. Will become female soon after however. Don't confuse this behaviour though by as you say, anthropomorphizing; keep an eye out as it could be illness (especially as you have lost your female). I don't say this to scare or worry, but to ensure vigilance over the next few days/weeks> Tank Specs: 40 gallon breeder 30 lbs live rock 2-3 inch live sand bed 2 Tunze Nanostream 4025 Corallife Actinic/Compact Fluorescent CPR backpack protein skimmer 1 scooter dragonet (*Synchiropus ocellatus*) 1 bi-color blenny (*Ecsenius bicolor*)* *1 three striped damsel (*Dascyllus aruanus*) (Yes, I know they're aggressive, but the female clown kept this fish in check... hence part of my worries) 1 Firefish (*Nemateleotris magnifica*) 1 male false percula (A. percula) 5 large colonies of soft corals (*Anthelia, Zoanthus, **Actinodiscus)* lots of micro and macro inverts on rock and sand Thank you in advance Thomas Rhindress <Hopefully enough to get you thinking, Thomas, but do read our indices on clownfish here at WWM. Mike I>

Re: Replacing part of a mated clown fish pair 4/13/08 This is a follow up to an earlier query about what to do about a dead clownfish. <Ok, Mike I here with you> I replaced the female clown with a similar sized false percula. Almost immediately the surviving male started showing the same symptoms as the dead female. <Sorry to hear> Both seemed to waste away, bodies becoming more and more bony. Their scales seemed a little duller in color and slightly sloughed off. There may have been some white faeces. I say that because I can't ever recall seeing either of my clowns defecate in 5 years of ownership, but definitely remember seeing it happen during the last few weeks of their life. All ate normally until the end. The two original clowns had trouble swimming and spent time hanging in the tank corners (very atypical) What I had attributed to old age was obviously not. Within two weeks of the dominant female passing away, the male had also died. The replacement clown also died of the exact same symptoms within two weeks of purchase (probably wild caught (sorry)). My question is what may have killed these three clowns in such rapid succession? <The symptoms there could suggest a few things, Brooklynellosis, some sort of internal parasite> I still have a three-striped damsel, bi-color blenny, Firefish, and a scooter blenny. All appear healthy and active. No new fish or livestock had been introduced to the tank in over 6 months. The only visible change is recently I have had an increase in both Aiptasia anemones and of a tiny white Seastar (0.5-1 cm across). <Hmmmm> Also, how do I know when it is safe to add new replacement clowns to the system? How can a species specific disease enter a system? At a loss... Thanks, Tom Rhindress <Tom, I'm sorry to hear of your losses. To me, the white faeces shouts internal parasite, the scales sloughing suggest other things (external parasites or possibly Brook). The *apparent* non-affliction of your other fish brings the situation into another playing fields too. To be safe, you may want to transfer your fish into a QT treat and possibly make some preventative treatment, leaving your display tank fallow for some time. I'm copying this back to the crew, as I know there are others on the team better qualified to answer questions on fish disease than I, and hope they can suggest some other avenues for you. Mike I>

The tables have turned - or - can Love find a way? Clownfish... comp. 3-11-08 Hi gang! <Thomas! Mike I here with you> Clown question. I've had my 72 gallon reef tank now for just over 2 year. All parameters are good (except nitrates are always a challenge) and everyone seems happy. Until today. <With you so far> I have a mated pair of clarkii clowns with a hosted anemone (although in the last 6 months they have all but abandoned the anemone and now sleep behind some of the rock.) Anyhow, this is what has happened. My male has grown exponentially in the last 2 weeks and is now HUGE. The female (who had grown very dark over the last year) is now smaller, and as of today was being chased aggressively and is hiding by a pump. He was always smaller than her, but about 6 months ago they became basically the same size. He is now the size you see adult clowns in stores and still the same bright bright orange. She now smaller than he, but still a dark black and orange. <OK> I finally caught her and put her in a floating tank - in the tank. Has he now become a she? Is this pair now doomed? <It seems that way> So what do you suggest I do with my clowns. Is it over for my clarkii clown pair? Or is this some sort of mating game? He is so huge. She, so not her aggressive self. Thanks! Thomas <Thomas, thanks for your questions. It does seem that from the situation you describe, your male has changed/is changing sex. This occurrence does seem to be quite prevalent in Amphiprion clarkii. However, what you don't say is how old/big these guys are. If they have been with you since young (read, and inch or so), then it may just be the pair finally sorting out dominance and the beginning of pair bonding. If we're talking 3 inches or so (don't take that literally; only giving an example), and the male is bigger, then I think ultimately you may have to split the pair. Do let me know who old/big these guys are, and I can try and give some more tailored advice. Good luck, and hope that helps. Mike I PS: I merged both your mail into this single reply>

Re: The tables have turned - or - can Love find a way? 3-11-08 Wow! Fast! <Aim to please, Thomas> Yeah, I had 3 and these two paired up - and the other one I gave away. I've had them paired now for 2 years. She was dominant, and he submissive. She lunged, he twitched. All was good. Lived in the anemone. <Sweet!> Now today, he is attacking her and he is about 3 inches. She is 2.5 and much darker now over the last year. They've been very happy for the last 12-18 months. Then this. I think he is becoming a female. Thanks! Thomas Simpson <Very possible, Thomas; more so given the time they have already spent together. Suggest you keep a close eye on these two, and if the aggressive behaviour last more than a week or so without any reprieve, or there is physical damage, you will likely have to split them apart. Hope that helps. Mike I>

Clown fish fighting (stress related?)... reading 3/7/08 Hello all @ WetWebMedia, <Hi, Mike I here today> I have a situation and I need helpful advice that I cannot find. I work at a respectable reef only fish store (by respectable I mean we actually dip all new fish in Methylene blue and formalin and quarantine sick fish and will not sell anything that does not look 100% healthy to customers, or to customers that don't have the proper system to house the fish, coral etc.) I have a considerable amount of knowledge about these ecosystems. Unfortunately one cannot know it all and my weakness is clown fish. Long story short I saw an amazing pair of clown fish at our store, see pics. I have had them in my 90g mix reef system (running for 1 year 3 months) for ~3 weeks. They have been eating well and following each other around with no problems. About a week and a half ago the more "naked" looking clown which is also smaller developed the "black stress marks" on both its sides. Now I supposedly received two males (from quality marine) but all of a sudden ~ 4 days ago I noticed the clowns vibrating next to each other, which I have heard is usually a sign of dominance over one another. Today I got home and saw the same one (smaller more naked one) laying right side up on the sand hiding under a rock (very unusual for my most active fish). I examined him closely and saw his other fin was damaged. So I sat and watched for 15 more minutes thinking my blue tang was bullying him. But it was the other clown who soon came over to the injured one and violently started attacking and chasing the injured one all across the tank until it found another spot. In short what do I do??? I put the aggressive one in the fish trap in "jail" for the time being. Will this pass? Could they both have turned female? Should I get rid of one and go solo with the clown fish? Thanks a million for your advice I have learned a lot from your site and hopefully I am not one of those pains in your asses who didn't "read enough" if so oh well, the help is appreciated. Mark Iltis <Mark, there is so much information on WWM on clownfish pairing, I must ask you search the indices for the general information. What I will say is that clownfish pairing should never result in physical aggression, and if this is the case, you need to think about separation. I'm not sure about your term, black stress marks either. Maybe have a look through the fish disease pages too. Sorry for the bland reply! Mike I>

Re: Clown fish fighting (stress related?) 3/7/08 well the black marks I speak of are from your website, bob Fenner actually is the one whom I got the notion from saying black markings which are obviously not pathological are stress related. as far as clown pairing I have not found anything relating to my case so could you answer my question more thoroughly or just admit that you are as baffled as myself??? <Mark, Thanks for the smut of attitude in your reply. I'm not baffled, having paired too many clowns to speak of. There are literally pages of posts relating clownfish pairing issues, and your situation is no different from my reading of it? My advice - remove the clownfish that's getting beat up - clownfish pairing should never result in physical injury. Get a much smaller animal and try again or keep a single animal. Having seen the pictures you sent, I would lean toward the darkening being increased pigmentation as is quite normal in young/maturing clowns of this species (Amphiprion ocellaris). I'm aware of the post that Bob made on stress markings, and these don't tie in. All the best, and good luck with your plans. Mike I>

Am on the road with friend, fellow industry conspirator Morgan Lidster (of Inland Aquatics)... having given a pitch at SEASL... touring some great shops... and he mentioned a very interesting speculation re "dark, darkening backed" "Percularis"... crosses twixt Amphiprion percula and A. ocellaris... this does look like it might be one of these... Bob Fenner

Clarkii clowns now fighting 2/27/08 Hi there, <Hi, Simon. You've got Mike I here today> I have been referring to your website for the past few years, when ever i have had a problem or not sure about anything, and i have to say it is the best i have found. <Happy to hear and thanks for the feedback!> Now my question as i can't seem to find an answer. <Shoot> I have a pair of clarkii clowns who were purchased together as a pair and have been fine together for over a year ( there in a 60gallon reef tank with a flame angel , Bicolour angel , scooter fish , Sailfin tang and dark blue in colour wrasse ),but, now all of a sudden they are battling each other very badly. <OK> They both seem to be as big as each other now as well, were as when i purchased them you could tell the difference in size, and easily spot the male from the female, but they seem to have grown to the same size over the time i have had them and now constantly battle violently on and off, is this normal? <Not unheard of - see below> as i know from reading your site clowns have a dominant female and a submissive male, so could mine be maybe sorting this out again? or will one end up killing the other?. Thank you for your time in reading my question. Regards Simon <You don't say if for any reason there has been a separation of the pair. If this is the case, then the bond may have broke and sex change has begun in the male. Even so, if there has been no separation and the fighting is as you say "violent", then again, you could have 2 females. The increase in size would seem to suggest so. This isn't unheard of, and seems to be prevalent in Clarkiis too. For no apparent reason, the male develops into a female. I'd suggest that if hasn't settled in a 2 weeks, you may have your answer above. In any case, if there is real aggression (physical damage) you need to separate the clowns - this is never part of bonding (and if you do have warring females is unlikely to cease after the time frame above). Hope that helps, and good luck. Mike I>

Does this sound right We have a flirting and I think mating pair of common clowns, as well as a Clarke, and a maroon. 2/17/08 <Not advisable to mix so radically but nonetheless> Well all 4 have been doing the mating dance. <The things fish get up to eh!> 2 nights ago we noticed in 2 areas of our 30 gal tank one is a jelly like substance under a live rock, the other that I am really asking about is attached to a piece of fake green plastic like tall plant, into this is an area approx. 2 and a half inches long, it appears encapsulated with what appears to be thread like casing. almost what would appear to be like a spider egg sack on the wall) We can see dark specs and I thought I could see some of them move. It is in a moving flow area. Well the 2 commons seem to be protecting this area from the Clarke but nothing else. Black Back butterfly, blue leg hermits, snails, 2 different anemones, Coral beauty angel, Brittle star, Mushroom coral and live rock, and feather dusters inhabit the tank. Is this a clown egg sack or is it something else we need to get out? Thank you for your time, Darlene. <Well, Darlene, it doesn't really sound like clownfish eggs. They are laid individually, and can be clearly recognised as egg capsules. Have a look at the picture at the top here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/clnfshbrdfaqs.htm and do a search using one of the search engines. I guess a picture would help immeasurably here. Sorry I can't be of more use. Mike I>

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