Can Epsom salt be used for Ich?       4/12/18
Dear WWM.
Hope you are doing fine. Thanks for maintaining an incredible website, it is so helpful.
<Thanks for the kind words.>
A quick question: Along with heat, can we use Epsom salt instead of NaCl to treat freshwater ich?
<No.>
I am not getting a definitive answer from the interweb. In case we can, what will be a ballpark gm/US gallons mixing advice?
<No idea.>
I was wondering if the osmotic pressure difference between the Ich protozoan's tissue (in the free swimming stage) and the water is what kills them. In that case any salt that is not detrimental otherwise should work.
<In theory that sounds fine, but Epsom salt has other properties, such as its laxative effect, that sodium chloride does not; therefore the two are not interchangeable.>
Or is there something special about NaCl and ich biochemically?
<Might well be, but the research is lacking. If you visit Google Scholar you'll find much research involving Ichthyophthirius and sodium chloride, but so far as I can tell, none at all re: Ichthyophthirius and magnesium sulphate/sulfate.>
Regards
Devakalpa
<Cheers, Neale.>

Ick and other problems        7/30/16
Hello, crew, hope you are doing well. I'm writing to you because I need help with quarantined fish.
I hope you can guide me to the best decision.
4 days ago I bought 4 Congo tetras, 2 Kribensis, 1 gold ram and 3 Glossolepis incisus.
<Mmm; the Rainbows and African and Ram fishes have quite different water quality ranges.... cooler/harder/higher pH vs. the opposite>
I noticed at the store the Glossolepis and Congos had a mild Ich attack. I figured I could bring them all home and treat them all for Ick,
<Yikes. My personal statement here re: NEVER buy obviously diseased livestock>
with proper quarantine procedure. They went into a 40 gal bare bottom with just a few rocks for the cichlids to hide, a sponge filter, and two powerhead filters all cycled. I cranked up the temp to 31 c
<Good>
and observed them... The Ich infestation got worse on the Glossolepis and Congos, but just yesterday the Glossolepis seems to be getting better( fewer spots, more active) the Congos all dropped their spots except for one, who's conditions got worse.
It no longer has Ich, but its scales are peeling, his mouth looks damaged and its fins are ragged or cut... I suspected a secondary bacterial infection so I gave him a quick bath in Methylene blue and fed it Metronidazole for any internal parasite. Its having trouble keeping balance... Certainly it doesn't look like its going to make it...
The rams and Kribs never got sick, and the other Congos seem to be in perfect health now, the Glossolepis still has a few days forward.... However I fear this conditions that is affecting the single Congo may present itself on the rest of the fish... Do I continue to quarantine them all or can I move the ram and Kribs to the display tank?
<I would definitely continue to quarantine all>
I would do so making sure that the quarantine water doesn't reach the display tank. What is my best course of action and what would be a better treatment for the condition my Congo has?
<I REALLY hate guessing re the root causes... and subsequent blind treating... W/o sampling, looking under a microscope, possibly culturing.... I'd probably opt to treat w/ an antibiotic and Anthelminthic in combination here. There's so much to go over, I must refer you to searching, reading on WWM re>
Tank parameters are 0,0,0 ( 20% water change daily, scarce feeding.. But they all are feeding) ph is 7.3.
Thank you, for your time, may you have a good day!
<Please do write back re updates and specific concerns. Bob Fenner> 
Re: Ick and other problems   7/31/16
Hello, again. Thanks for the response.
<Welcome>
As expected, the Congo didn't make the night. The single Congo has blood stains on the base of its fins. Mouth seems peeled.
<Stress...>
The rest seem better, Glossolepis seem more active. Two display tanks actually( well, three...) the Congos and rainbows are going into the "tap" water parameter tank. Ph 7.3-7.6 and 10 GH and KH... The ram and Kribs are going into the slightly softer water tank, 6 GH and KH and 6.7-7.0 ph.
<Ahh; good>
Everyone ( except the ram) were a first in the country, so I felt desperately tempted to try them out...
<Someone has to be first! BobF>
Ick and other problems /Neale    7/31/16
Hello, crew, hope you are doing well. I'm writing to you because I need help with quarantined fish.
<Sure!>
I hope you can guide me to the best decision.
4 days ago I bought 4 Congo tetras, 2 Kribensis, 1 gold ram and 3 Glossolepis incisus.
<Mostly nice fish. Not sure about Gold Rams though. Crummy fish at the best of time, sadly. Need a lot of warmth to stay healthy. You can get lucky, but keep a close eye on your specimen and keep the temperature around the 28 C/82 F mark, which mightn't be ideal for your other livestock, so adjust aeration accordingly.>
I noticed at the store the Glossolepis and Congos had a mild Ich attack. I figured I could bring them all home and treat them all for Ick, with proper quarantine procedure. They went into a 40 gal bare bottom with just a few rocks for the cichlids to hide, a sponge filter, and two powerhead filters all cycled. I cranked up the temp to 31 c and observed them... The Ich infestation got worse on the Glossolepis and Congos, but just yesterday the Glossolepis seems to be getting better (fewer spots, more active) the Congos all dropped their spots except for one, who's conditions got worse.
<Understood.>
It no longer has Ich, but its scales are peeling, his mouth looks damaged and its fins are ragged or cut... I suspected a secondary bacterial infection so I gave him a quick bath in Methylene blue and fed it Metronidazole for any internal parasite. Its having trouble keeping balance... Certainly it doesn't look like its going to make it...
<I would doing the combined heat/salt method here, rather than just the heat. Glossolepis dislike acidic conditions (which your Rams must have) and also dislike high temperatures (again, which your Rams want) so I don't think these were a wise purchase here. On the upside, they should tolerate salt/heat extremely well over the short term if you provide ample aeration.>
The rams and Kribs never got sick, and the other Congos seem to be in perfect health now, the Glossolepis still has a few days forward.... However I fear this conditions that is affecting the single Congo may present itself on the rest of the fish... Do I continue to quarantine them all or can I move the ram and Kribs to the display tank? I would do so making sure that the quarantine water doesn't reach the display tank. What is my best course of action and what would be a better treatment for the condition my Congo has? Tank parameters are 0,0,0 ( 20% water change daily, scarce feeding.. But they all are feeding) ph is 7.3.
Thank you, for your time, may you have a good day!
<Let me direct you to some reading re: salt/heat...
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/SaltUseFWArtNeale.htm
There's no particular reason not to use a standard Whitespot medication here, particularly if there's a chance you're dealing with Velvet; I find eSHa EXIT to be especially reliable, safe and cost-effective. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Ick and other problems        8/3/16
Thank you. I also feared it could be velvet. By the way, I have 3 display tanks, a soft water Amazonian-like tank ( 28-29 c, GH, KH of 5-6 and ph of 6.5-7.0) and a " tap water" hard water tank ( ph 7.1-7.5, GH , KH of 10, temp of 25-26c) and a third " catfish" tank ( also tap water parameters, but dim lighting, lots of rocks and dry leaves, mild black water so I suppose the ph and KH may be actually lower). The first two tanks are high tech planted tanks, the first housing dwarf cichlids, ( including my breeding pair of German blue rams and macmasteri cichlids, I have found most of the Amazonian dwarves that reach my country seem to be a little hardier, I did have troubles with my first batches of rams and Apistos but my recent dealer seems to be getting very healthy specimens... E.g. the gold ram I just got is beautifully vibrant and active, and the last problem I had was with a macmasteri female at the start of the year), Kuhli loaches and a school of cardinal tetras, it is a 90 gal. The second tank is a rainbow/ livebearer and a large school of red phantom tetras,@@ 150 gal tank. The third houses Raphael catfish and glass catfish and is mildly planted with ferns, Anubias and swords.
Update with the quarantined fish : one of the Glossolepis succumbed, it seemed to eat one day and the next day it just wasted! Very thin and shimming... On a good note everyone else is free of spots as of today... Used some malachite green at half dose to help with free swimming parasites ( don't have access to much medicines) and did a major 50% wc... The fish I'm treating are in a quarantine tank and will go separate ways once cured ( the ram will go to the soft water tank and the Kribs and Congos/ Glossolepis to the hard water one). I'm a bit hesitant to use salt due to the ramirezi.
On a side note, I noticed today one glass catfish in my catfish tank is seemingly wasting too... It is very thin, it is eating as always but it is separated from the group and has trouble swimming. I haven't added anything to my tank in over 6 months... And I conduct 50-60% water changes weekly, I'm at a loss... I feed them at least 3 different times of commercial food + freeze dried Tubifex and live daphnia which I grow... Sometimes throw some veggie mix in. The tank houses 3 Raphael catfish, 10 glass catfish, 2 royal Farlowella and a single African butterfly fish... It is an 80 gal. I'm very worried that can be carried over to my other fish. Tested parameters also, no ammonia or nitrite readings... Nitrates are probably a bit less than 10 ppm ( strip test). Temp is 25c today ( room temp).
 Roberto Mejía
Subject: Ick and other problems        8/3/16
Hello, crew, hope you are doing well. I'm writing to you because I need help with quarantined fish.
<Sure!>
I hope you can guide me to the best decision.
4 days ago I bought 4 Congo tetras, 2 Kribensis, 1 gold ram and 3 Glossolepis incisus.
<Mostly nice fish. Not sure about Gold Rams though. Crummy fish at the best of time, sadly. Need a lot of warmth to stay healthy. You can get lucky, but keep a close eye on your specimen and keep the temperature around the 28 C/82 F mark, which mightn't be ideal for your other livestock, so adjust aeration accordingly.>
I noticed at the store the Glossolepis and Congos had a mild Ich attack. I figured I could bring them all home and treat them all for Ick, with proper quarantine procedure. They went into a 40 gal bare bottom with just a few rocks for the cichlids to hide, a sponge filter, and two powerhead filters all cycled. I cranked up the temp to 31 c and observed them... The Ich infestation got worse on the Glossolepis and Congos, but just yesterday the Glossolepis seems to be getting better (fewer spots, more active) the Congos all dropped their spots except for one, whose conditions got worse.
<Understood.>
It no longer has Ich, but its scales are peeling, his mouth looks damaged and its fins are ragged or cut... I suspected a secondary bacterial infection so I gave him a quick bath in Methylene blue and fed it Metronidazole for any internal parasite. Its having trouble keeping balance... Certainly it doesn't look like its going to make it...
<I would doing the combined heat/salt method here, rather than just the heat. Glossolepis dislike acidic conditions (which your Rams must have) and also dislike high temperatures (again, which your Rams want) so I don't think these were a wise purchase here. On the upside, they should tolerate salt/heat extremely well over the short term if you provide ample aeration.>
The rams and Kribs never got sick, and the other Congos seem to be in perfect health now, the Glossolepis still has a few days forward.... However I fear this conditions that is affecting the single Congo may present itself on the rest of the fish... Do I continue to quarantine them all or can I move the ram and Kribs to the display tank? I would do so making sure that the quarantine water doesn't reach the display tank. What is my best course of action and what would be a better treatment for the condition my Congo has? Tank parameters are 0,0,0 ( 20% water change daily, scarce feeding.. But they all are feeding) ph is 7.3.
Thank you, for your time, may you have a good day!
<Let me direct you to some reading re: salt/heat...
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/SaltUseFWArtNeale.htm
There's no particular reason not to use a standard Whitespot medication here, particularly if there's a chance you're dealing with Velvet; I find eSHa EXIT to be especially reliable, safe and cost-effective. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Ick and other problems        8/3/16
Thank you. I also feared it could be velvet.
<Often misdiagnosed or missed completely, but even more dangerous than Whitespot.>
By the way, I have 3 display tanks, a soft water Amazonian-like tank ( 28-29 c, GH, KH of 5-6 and ph of 6.5-7.0) and a " tap water" hard water tank ( ph 7.1-7.5, GH , KH of 10, temp of 25-26c) and a third " catfish" tank ( also tap water parameters, but dim lighting, lots of rocks and dry leaves, mild black water so I suppose the ph and KH may be actually lower). The first two tanks are high tech planted tanks, the first housing dwarf cichlids, ( including my breeding pair of German blue rams and macmasteri cichlids, I have found most of the Amazonian dwarves that reach my country seem to be a little hardier, I did have troubles with my first batches of rams and Apistos but my recent dealer seems to be getting very healthy specimens... E.g. the gold ram I just got is beautifully vibrant and active, and the last problem I had was with a macmasteri female at the start of the year), Kuhli loaches and a school of cardinal tetras, it is a 90 gal. The second tank is a rainbow/ livebearer and a large school of red phantom tetras,@@ 150 gal tank. The third houses Raphael catfish and glass catfish and is mildly planted with ferns, Anubias and swords.
<All sounds great!>
Update with the quarantined fish : one of the Glossolepis succumbed, it seemed to eat one day and the next day it just wasted! Very thin and shimming... On a good note everyone else is free of spots as of today... Used some malachite green at half dose to help with free swimming parasites ( don't have access to much medicines) and did a major 50% wc... The fish I'm treating are in a quarantine tank and will go separate ways once cured ( the ram will go to the soft water tank and the Kribs and Congos/ Glossolepis to the hard water one). I'm a bit hesitant to use salt due to the ramirezi.
<Don't be. I've used salt/heat with Cardinal tetras for example. Short term, it's fine. Don't want to be using salt indefinitely, but for a couple of weeks it's a lot safer than not medicating or treating Whitespot and hoping for the best. I know Bob F. is a fan of just using heat to treat Whitespot, but I'm not, and prefer to add salt. Just use non-marine aquarium salt so you don't change the hardness. Even cooking sea salt will do, preferably non-iodised.>
On a side note, I noticed today one glass catfish in my catfish tank is seemingly wasting too... It is very thin, it is eating as always but it is separated from the group and has trouble swimming.
<Not a good sign. Has its body changed colour at all? Become more smoky?>
I haven't added anything to my tank in over 6 months... And I conduct 50-60% water changes weekly, I'm at a loss... I feed them at least 3 different times of commercial food + freeze dried Tubifex and live daphnia which I grow... Sometimes throw some veggie mix in. The tank houses 3 Raphael catfish, 10 glass catfish, 2 royal Farlowella and a single African butterfly fish... It is an 80 gal. I'm very worried that can be carried over to my other fish.
<Understood. But these fish are semi-delicate, as well as difficult to feed, often not taking a full range of things, just live daphnia or brine shrimp. Animals that don't consume a good range of foods can suffer from a lack of vitamins. Do your Glass Cats eat flake? That's the best thing for pretty much all fish because you can be sure they'll get a good range of nutrients. If not, you need to vary the live or frozen foods as much as possible.>
Tested parameters also, no ammonia or nitrite readings... Nitrates are probably a bit less than 10 ppm ( strip test). Temp is 25c today ( room temp).
<Review diet and aeration, but otherwise nothing obvious to recommend. Unlikely to be anything contagious as such, though if you can isolate the catfish in a small aquarium for a few days to try and getting him eating something, that would be good. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Ick and other problems    8/4/16
Thank you for your response! I will try adding salt again, its been a long time since I last did, at what concentration would it suffice for the current state of things?
<Let me direct you to some reading:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/SaltUseFWArtNeale.htm
Should help.>
I normally also cure Ich with just heat, it normally did the work in 5-6 days and I would keep them quarantined for another week, then release them, but it seems this time it was a little harder... Probably a more resistant strain... I have never seen velvet personally by the way, and pictures are misleading... I'm supposed to be looking for very small white spots that create a sort of golden film right? What my fish show are rather big, separate white spots, so I suppose I is Ich.
<Correct. I think of Velvet as like icing sugar, Whitespot like salt.>
About the catfish: they eat everything! Flake, crisps, daphnia, veggie mix, pellets... Everything... In fact, all my fish take eagerly everything I offer, ( with the exception of the butterfly fish, which I'm slowly training to take pellets) Have had them for more than a year, so these guys are used to their current lifestyle, I assume. When I drop the catfish pellets for the Raphaels they will get picked away by the glass catfish... So that's what puzzles me, they had always been very hardy... Could it be an internal parasite?
<Conceivably, but unlikely to come out of nowhere if the fish have been healthy for more than a year or so.>
Would it hurt to use Metronidazole preventively?
<No; a good idea in fact, unlikely to do harm, and can sort a variety of problems. Do remember to remove carbon from the filter, if used.>
The catfish is skinny and is starting to present slight deformities,
<This can be a sign of bacterial infections, but also environmental stress, even genetics (though poor genes usually mean the animal was deformed all the time, not just in the last few weeks or months).>
it is swimming, but it will sometimes just float for a bit... Just fed them by the way and it is still looking for food voraciously. He looks white-ish, whereas the other catfish are a perfect transparent with blue linings. His whiskers are also damaged, or so they seem, sort of like broken.
Thank you, again, for your time and prompt response.
Roberto.
<Most welcome, and good luck, Neale.>