Balancing the decision between a canister or wet/dry in a FW cichlid tank
Hi,
an absolutely impressive wealth of details and information from a crew of
incredible resources.
I would imagine that this has been asked, but my several google searches
have not netted me an answer.
I have a 90 gallon tank that after a few years of sitting empty will be
running again, thanks to my 19 month old daughter's fascination with Nemo.
For years I enjoyed freshwater cichlids and plan to set up the tank with
about six or eight of them depending on which ones I will eventually
purchase.  Based on my readings here, I will try some live plants this time
since the benefits seem to be very attractive.
My question is specifically about filtration.  For years (and up until
several years ago) I had good experiences with canister filters.  My Eheim
classic canisters are truly classic and Eheim no longer manufacturers or
stocks the original impellers.  Despite their past years of continual and
great service, I am not extremely confident in relying on a filtration
mechanism that is nearing 20 years old, so I am prepared to purchase a new
filtration system.
It seemed to me that several years ago, wet/dry filters were the tools of
saltwater aquarists and seldom used in freshwater applications.  Now I see
that there is much to be praised by using these systems with freshwater
applications.
My quandary is between the purchase of a wet/dry system or a newer, large
canister.  I assume that an appropriately sized  wet/dry will provide much
more biological filtration and redeeming by-products than the much smaller
quantity of ceramic noodles in an appropriately sized canister filter.
Given the generally voracious appetites of fast growing cichlids, I am
guessing that this is a plus.  But, given the voracious appetites and messy
nature of cichlids, will a wet/dry be able to keep the water from becoming
too cloudy or murky?  Will a wet/dry filter be lacking in some abilities in
maintaining a cichlid tank that a canister filter will be much better at?
Ultimately, my impression is that a wet/dry system seems to be easier to
maintain, will provide additional water in the system (in my case, at least
10%) and I am guessing will be less costly to maintain over the years.
Is there one path that is inherently better than another for this intended
application?
Should or could (my older canister filters) fulfill some necessary secondary
or collaborative role in addition to a wet/dry filter?
< Cichlids are heavy feeders and require good filtration. Plants may not go with your cichlids so you may have to make a choice between plants or cichlids. As far as filtration  there are few ways to go with the big tank. My personal first choice would be a Marineland Tidepool filter with the SOS overflow system. Negatives are it is expensive and you need to buy an additional pump and do a little plumbing to get it going. The positives is once it is set up it is so easy to service. Just pull out the trays and hose them off. My second choice would be a Marineland emperor power filter. They hang on the back and are extremely easy to service. They may not work if you have a canopy on the top or are limited for space behind the tank. My third choice would be a canister filter. They are difficult to service and don't pump as much water as the others. Depending on the plants this would be the best system if you wanted to invest in a co2 system for plants because this one would agitate the surface of the water the least.-Chuck>
Thank you for any input!

RE: Balancing the decision between a canister or wet/dry in a FW cichlid tank
Thanks for your detailed response.
If I have a choice to consider, it would be to go with strictly cichlids
(like Texas Cichlids) and not with the live plants.  Does your
recommendation below still apply for a FO tank?
< More so than ever.>
It seems as if the Tidepool
is essentially a wet/dry system, but relies on a bio-wheel rather than the
bio-balls.  Am I on the right track?
< You are right on the money. Big fish like cichlids generate lots of waste and the secret to keeping them healthy is to get that waste out of the system and not let it build up. That's why I like this system so much because it is quick and easy to service.-Chuck>
Thanks again!
Rob

Filter media, cichlid system
Hello crew....I have a 55-gallon freshwater tank
containing 5 cichlids and 5 other aggressive fish. The
tank is lit by 120 watts and houses 7 Amazon swords.
The tank is run on a Fluval 304, and my question is in
regard to the media inside it. 3 months ago I decided
to get rid of carbon in my system and replace it with
more biological and mechanical media (All trays are
now filled with both PolyFilter wool, and ceramic
rings) It is quite expensive (carbon) and I hear it
absorbs a lot of nutrients beneficial to plants.
Having removed the carbon, I in fact noticed a
tremendous flourishing of all my plants. I checked all
levels including nitrates-ites, ph, etc, and they were
all fine. What I did notice was a discoloring of my
water, a yellowish green murk to be exact. I did water
changes and this would help temporarily, but soon the
murk would return. I even did a 80% water change once
and the discoloration returned within a couple of
days. Sometimes it is so green you can't see anything
in the tank. Being concerned for my fish I check all
levels religiously but once again they are all
perfect. So in essence the environmental aspect of the
tank is fine and my fish are quite healthy, but the
esthetic aspect is a disaster! I am really quite
adamant about restoring the carbon as part of my
media, so the question I pose  to you is what other
kinds of media or setups could you suggest to
eliminate this unappealing discoloration of my tank
water. Any suggestions are welcome. Tank you for your
time and expertise.
< If you use a special substrate for the plants then I suspect that the cichlids are rooting around in it and keeping it stirred up and releasing organics into the water that may have been accumulating. Even if your are not using a special substrate then I would vacuum the gravel the next time I did a water change. Keep doing this over the next few water changes you should start to see a difference.-Chuck>

FW filters
Hi you have been great help in the past and I thank you for that. My question is I have a 125 gal tank with a 3 in. Oscar and I plan on getting a 2 or 3 in. common pleco. I have a emperor not sure what model it has 4 filter areas and to bio wheels also have a H.O.T. magnum. I was thinking of getting the Aqua Clear Pro 150 Wet/Dry filter it cost 260.00.I was wondering if this is worth the money and is it easy to maintain. I would probably not use the other filters any more.-------------Thanks Fred
< For a tank that size even though it is lightly loaded I use a rule of thumb to have the water moving at least 3 times the total volume of the tank in one hour. So You need a filter or filters that move at least 375 gallons an hour. Better yet 5 times the total volume of the tank. I like a filter that is easy to service. That's why I like power filters that hang on the back. I have a love/hate relationship with canister filters. Sometimes you got to use them but they sure are a pain to service. Keep in mind that all filters do is collect waste from the tank. It is still in the system until you remove it. Wet drys are great if you don't use a co2 system in a planted tank. Oxygen is the limiting factor for the bacteria to break down fish waste to less toxic substances. You already have a wet/dry filter with the Biowheels on your emperor that is probably the 400 model. So it already pumps 400 gallons an hour and has the wet/dry factor already built it. Why spend the Extra money for something you don't need?-Chuck>

Cichlid system gear
I have just found some stuff in another tank we have, and wondered if any of
it would be useful in this tank. I will try to tell you what the stuff is,
but some of it has no description. So here goes. There is a Pulsar Power
Filter Model 200, 115 volts.
< The filter will help, but not do the job alone. Usually the model number refers to the gallons per hour. This would help but the other filter would still be needed.>
There is a massive heater, All it says is
110-120v, 50-80Hz, don't know if that helps. It is 13 1/4" long. and about 4
around.
<Heaters can be very touchy. You can try it as described before . If it works then keep for awhile until you can save up for a newer and more reliable heater.>
And last but not least there is a Penn-Plax XP 500 twin pump.
Please let me know if any or all of this is useful.
<The pump runs on two rubber diaphragms. If they are dried out they make crack and need replaced. If they are intact then you have a nice little air pump to run some airstones or ornaments.> That would be so nice,
save some money. Anyway, thanks again. We are building the stand today.
< Be aware that your tank will weigh over 1,250 lbs when it is up and running. Make sure that stand and the floor under it can handle the weight for a very long time. Congratulations on your new tank!-Chuck>

Neotropical cichlid set-up
Hi. I need your help with something. I have searched your site FAQ's and have found helpful info, but not exactly what I am looking for. I have a 125g tank. We are in the process of setting it up but are trying to figure out what filtration we need. We are having the top made w/lights, other then that. We have nothing yet. We don't have a ton of money to spend, so that is something to keep in mind. We are trying to figure out the filtration and pump.
< Quality equipment will really pay off in time, money and success. Oscars will get up to 12 inches long when full grown. They are messy feeders and generate a lot of waste that needs to be dealt with. Here is what I would do for an ideal Oscar set up. Oscars come from South America and need warm water. Get a good quality 200 watt heater. A cheap heater may stick after a few months so I would not skimp here because a stuck heater can cook your fish. Some stores may not carry a heater with that large a wattage so two 100 watt heaters placed at opposite sides of the tank would work too. The filter should pump enough water to circulate the tank no less than three times an hour. I would recommend an outside power filter that pumps at least 400 plus gallons an hour. They are easier to service than a canister filter. >
We are planning on getting a couple Oscars and are also wondering how long we should let the tank sit before doing so. The pet store here (Good friends with owner and employees) says you can put the Oscars in immediately. I do not agree. I know sometimes they are wrong. I am looking for info on pretty much everything. Please help as I am wanting to do this right. But inexpensively. Also, how many fish could I have in a tank that size. Even if only two were Oscars. I want them to be very comfortable so do not need to know the max limit. Just the comfortable one. Thanks a ton.
< Wash the sand or gravel well. Add enough so at least 2 inches covers the bottom tank. Don't worry about plants. The Oscars will just end up tearing them up. Wash the rocks well and make sure they are safe for the aquarium. Place the rocks on the bottom of the tank and not just on the sand. Oscars like to dig and may excavate a tunnel under a rock and end up being crushed by it. Fill the tank up with treated water. Turn on the heater and let it run overnight. The next day check the thermometer. If it is less than 80 degrees and the heater is turned off then it will have to be adjusted. Turn the heater knob until the light comes on and wait another day. Repeat as often as needed to get the heater adjusted to 80 degrees. Large tanks take time to heat up so you will need to be patient. Now that the filters are running and the heater is properly adjusted we need to add some fish. Two little baby one inch Oscars could be added at this time. Feed them only a smaller portion of flake food that they only eat in a few minutes. Resist the temptation of over feeding them many times a day. I know they are cute at this size but the excess food will just go to waste. Ask the store for a little sand from one of their existing tanks. This sand contains beneficial bacteria that is needed to breakdown the waste that your fish will be generating. After a while your tank may smell and get cloudy, if this happens you will need to reduce the ammonia levels by either treating the water with a chemical or dilute the ammonia levels with a water change. This is caused by ammonia building up in the water. The bacteria will eventually multiply and break this waste down to nitrite and then nitrates. The nitrates will have to be controlled with water changes. It will take about a month for the bacteria to build up enough in numbers to handle your tank. After a month if you wanted to add some other fish you could. Keep in mind that your Oscars will get big sooner than you think. New fish should be quarantined because they may carry disease into your tank. Treating and curing fish in a 125 gallon tank can be a lot of work and expensive.-Chuck>
Alisha

Cloudy Cichlid System
Hi there,
I have a 48" Hagen Fluval 1200 tank, approx 200L,currently I have convict and
Firemouth cichlids in my tank, small pea gravel for substrate, and a Fluval 4+
and a Fluval 2+ internal filters in both back corners of the tank, I also
have two bits of Mopani wood in my tank, and around 16 tufa rock clumps along
the back and sides of my tank.
My problem is that my water is really cloudy constantly, even if I do a 50%
water chance the water becomes cloudy again shortly afterwards, I've tried to
use carbon pads in my filters and also poly pads in my filters, however neither
of these seem to help cure the cloudy water, to me it seems that all of the
water has floating parts of the tufa rock, however I don't understand why the
filters wouldn't be picking this up, as it seems to be just floating there in the
water.
Its getting to the stage where I'm thinking of taking out all of the tufa
rock and replacing it with something along the lines of slate rock and then
doing a water change to get rid of any leftover tufa rock suspended in the
water also thinking of changing my light bulbs as they are 40w which might be too
strong)
Are there any suggestions you could have for me, as I've asked at four
different stores as to how to cure this problem and also read at least four different
books yet everything I ask and everything I try short of replacing the tufa
rock) seems to have no effect.
< Check the ammonia levels in the tank. A new tank could experience an ammonia spike that would make the tank look cloudy. If the ammonia levels are fine then something else could be a problem. Take a sample of the aquarium water and place it in a large clear jar or container. After a few days see if the water is clear and if there is any sediment in the bottom of the jar. I am not familiar with the tufa rock but I think that it may be the cause of the problem. The term "rock" can mean several things. Some of this rock can be very dusty and can cloud a tank if it is not thoroughly washed. The dust can be made up of extremely fine particles that typical aquarium filters will not pick up. The other possibility is that the rock is breaking down in the water into these fine particles. Take sample or piece of the rock and place it in the clear jar. Add an airstone to the water to keep it moving. After a few days discontinue the airstone and let the water settle for a few days. Once again look for sediment. If there is sediment then the rocks may indeed be the problem and will probably need changing. If the rock itself is not the cause then vacuum the gravel. Sediment or dust in the gravel may cause this too. -Chuck>
Any advice would be most gratefully appreciated, thanks,
Craig Pettigrew

Firemouth help
Thanks for your help, I've just done yet another 25% water change and changed
the lights, although I don't think the lights were anything to do with the
problem.
< If you have had green water then that would be a different situation and the changing of the lights might had helped.>
I've placed more poly filter wool into my filters and I've reduced the flow
rate, hopefully to capture more of the particles, I'm going to let it run for a
week and if there are still the particles in the water then I'll need to change
my rock to slate.
< Poly filter may actually be removing some of the minerals you are trying to add with your tufa  rock.>
Tufa rock is used to increase the ph level's,
< The cichlids you indicated in your first question really don't need elevated pH levels. If you wanted to increase the pH levels for African rift lake cichlids then a buffer or buffering substrate would be better. -Chuck>
believe that it crumbles to a
certain degree to help do this, so as I have about 16 rocks in my tank it
seems to point towards them as being the sole problem (I've even shredded my
fingers washing the rock 2-3 times)
thanks again for your advice.

Would a 20 gal tank be too small for a Jack Dempsey?
<Yes, Jack Dempseys get to get up to 12 inches. You would have the same problem you had with the Oscar.>
I currently have some African Cichlids in the 20 and have a 29 gal that isn't set up yet. I was thinking about getting some more African cichlids and putting them in the 29,
< Be careful about putting Africans in the 29 gallon. A 50 would be better but it can be done in a 29 gallon if you stay with the smaller species like Ps. saulosi or less aggressive species like Ps. Acei,>
and then buying a small Jack Dempsey to put in the 20. But would he Jack Dempsey outgrow the 20?
< If you really want to get into cichlids then I would really like to recommend a book to you to read. It is called "Enjoying Cichlids" by Ad Konings. It is a great book covering most aspects of cichlid keeping from tiny dwarfs to large monster cichlids. It covers tank requirements and food needs too. It is not cheap but it will save you lots of time, aggravation and money in the long run. -Chuck>

Oscar and Gar in a 55g?
I was recently at a pet store and I was told that it will be ok for me to
get 2 Oscars and 1 gar fish and put them in a 55 gal tank. I want to know
will they get along and will 55 gal be enough. If not what should I do?
>>Hello :D Since you are asking, I get the feeling that you think a 55g would NOT be large enough, and you would be right. A 55g is not even large enough to house ONE Oscar for it's natural lifespan, two would require twice-weekly water changes just to keep them healthy, no guarantees either. Adding a gar to the mix would be a bad idea, and I am sure that someone down the line would talk you into adding a pleco as a cleanup crew...another bad idea! The average pleco sold to you would probably be an Hypostomus species, growing to two feet and not an ideal cleaner-upper, they create more waste than they remove. If your tank is a 55g, I would recommend going with some smaller species of Cichlidae, perhaps some jewels, some keyholes, some convicts if you like protective parents ;) or maybe just some gouramis, or a nice community tank. A 55g is too small to house most cichlids for any length of time. If your pH is high, say around 7.8 and higher, you could house some Africans in there, but beware of aggression, even though the Africans may not grow to 15 inches, they are aggressive enough to warrant a great deal more space.  Good Luck :) -Gwen<<

Cichlid Sardines
Hi,
We started up a 90 gallon tank for cichlids at the end of September.  We had at the height, 14 cichlids and one "red lobster".  
<Oh, my.  That's an awful lot of cichlids in for that tank, I'm afraid....  Aggression and water quality are both going to be bad....>
We started to lose them and have lost 7 in all, but have replaced them since.  
<I would very seriously suggest reducing the number of fish in there....  Also keep in mind that some cichlids are simply incompatible; please check out your specific fishes' needs regarding pH and so forth - for example, some South American cichlids thrive in pH of 6.0 and lower, whereas African rift lake cichlids of Malawi, Tanganyika, and Victoria like their pH to be well above 8.0 in most cases.>
One was pointing straight up in the water and was full of holes one morning.  
<Wow.  Depending upon how you mean "holes", this may be Hexamita or Hole-In-The-Head/HLLE, or it might have been roughed up a bit and damaged from other fish.  Or any number of other illnesses brought on by water quality issues, as well.>
The rest that have died have seemed to be twitching and lethargic.  
<Strong indications of poor water quality - please test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH, or take a water sample to a reputable local fish store and have them test it for you.>
One who is still hanging in there, has some really sorry looking fins and the others are now chasing him.  
<Overcrowding and poor water quality will spur this aggression - please consider cutting down on your number of fish.>
We have medicated the tank twice.  Once for parasite, and when that didn't work, we tried it for fungus.  The one who is sick now, was doing much better after the second medication(2 weeks ago), but just got worse today.  
<I imagine, from the aggression and possible water quality problems, he may be suffering from bacterial infection(s).  Test and correct your water quality, first and foremost, then go from there.  Try to diagnose what you're treating first, so you can medicate with something that will help.  And keep in mind, it is always better to medicate only the sick fish in a separate quarantine tank, so you don't risk destroying the biological filtration that helps keep your other fish healthy.>
My husband has had cichlids before, and keeps saying that it's normal for fish to die.  
<Not so.  Many cichlids can live for several years - perhaps ten years or more, in some cases.>
I can't help but think that this isn't normal.  
<You are very right.>
I don't like to see them sick.  Is there any way you can help?  We remove 10 gallons a week and replace it.
<Do you vacuum the gravel when you do this?  With such a high fish load, you might want to change more like 50% weekly.  Be sure you are using a good dechlorinator to remove chlorine and chloramine in the water.  Please test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH.>
My husband has put salt in and turned up the heat too.  We have a Fluval system and are using loose carbon in the filter. The temp. of the tank is 27 degrees Celsius and we use Cichlid flakes for food - twice a day.  If there is any way you can help, please let us know.
<Please do check out the information available on WetWebMedia regarding cichlids at http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwsubwebindex.htm .  Scroll down to the gray bar titled "Cichlid Fishes", and you'll find quite a few articles.  Please also check out the FAQs linked to those articles that apply to you/your system as there is a lot of information archived there as well.  Also on that page you will find information on freshwater systems in general that may be of interest to you.>
Thanks.  Jane and Mike.
<Wishing you well,  -Sabrina>

Adding the Ocean to Your Tank 11/06/03 
Hi :) 
<Hi, Pufferpunk here> 
I have a cichlid tank that is very well established. I love to change the tank display. In the past I have put coral in the tank that I have gotten while snorkeling in the Caribbean with no problem. I have a very large conch shell that I feel apprehensive about displaying in my tank, but think it would look awesome in it! Do you think it will be okay? 
<You're not going to like this answer, but I feel I must scold you a little here. As an avid scuba diver (I'm actually leaving for the Caribbean on Saturday), I need to educate you about taking things from the ocean. We have a saying, "Take only pictures & leave only bubbles". Everything in the ocean has a reason for being there. That conch could be used for a hermit crab or octopus home. It is never good to help yourself to these things. Enough said about that. ;) If there is no smell to it, you could soak it overnight in a light bleach solution, rinse well & then a few hours more in dechlorinated water, before adding it to your tank.> 
Thanks for your help. Susan 
<You're welcome, Pufferpunk> 

Cramped Oscars
<Hello! Ryan with you>
I have a 30 gallon freshwater fish tank I have 3 Oscars and 2 Cichlids fish in there. I have fallen in love with a Albino Oscar and would like to know How many more fish I can fit in the tank. Currently my fish get along fine. My tank has been up for 2 months.
<1 Oscar will be cramped in your 30 gallon setup when fully grown.  You've fallen in love with an animal that's going to require more space, certainly if you'd like to keep more than one.  Four Oscars would require 125+ gallons for adequate room for movement.  Good luck! Ryan>

Too Many Cichlids
Thanks for the response; the eggs were eaten.<bummer>  The funny thing about this though was that there was only one Texas cichlid (about 7"). <Not too weird, it happens.>  The other fish in the tank were an 8" red devil (or Midas, I'm not sure exactly-it's very orange with a big bump on it's head), a 6" red terror, a 6" jack Dempsey, a 6" black belt cichlid, a 7" Managuense, and about a 2" convict (I don't know how he's survived??).
<Oh my!  That is way too many fish in a 55.  I have heard that the Red Devil is always the last fish in the tank, but I do not know if they ever brought a Managuense into the equation.  I strongly recommend finding homes for some of these fish, keeping your favorites, and getting a larger tank.  Check out fishbase.org for the full grown size of these monsters.  If they were all to grow you would have no room left for water.>
Is it possible for any of these cichlids to be the mate of the Texas cichlid? <It is possible that one of these fish would have tried to fertilize the Texas Cichlids eggs.>  How do these type of cichlids "mate"?  Do they lay eggs and then fertilize?  The Texas seemed like he was dragging something on top of the eggs.  <Probably one of the others eggs, he was trying to fertilize.>  South American cichlids don't mouth breed, do they?  Any information will be greatly appreciated.  <Get a larger tank, and in the mean time, lots of water changes. -Gage>  Thanks so much, Jeff

Stinky Tank
I have no idea when this started but I have a 55 gal African Cichlid tank. The water is not cloudy, there are 9 African cichlids in there plus 1 algae eater and there is an awful odor coming from the tank.  It smells like a scum filled pond on a hot day! The temp is right where it should be and the filter is pretty new and the carbon has just been replaced.  Help me get rid of this odor PLEASE!!!!
-Aimee, NY
<Hey Aimee, what are you feeding?  Leftover food can smell like death.  How are your water tests coming out? Do the fish seem ok?  Water changes should help. -Gage>

Overcrowded Oscars
I have a 10 gallon tank with 1 sucker fish and 3 other fish.  The other fish are small (1-2 inch) Oscar fish.  
<Whoa! Way too many fish for this tank! A full grown Oscar can reach nearly 18 inches long so even one Oscar is way too much for a 10 gallon tank. These 4 fish should be kept in no smaller than a 75 gallon aquarium, 100 gallon would be better.>
I'm having a problem however with the tank. The water stays clear for only about a day and then no matter what I do, unless I do a full water change it stays cloudy.  The pH is 7.0, I've added "algae fix" to help keep the algae in control.  I've tried "tetra aqua-easy balance" to try to get rid of the cloudiness, as well as "clear water" which is supposed to remove cloudiness.  Nothing is working.  It's getting frustrating because the tank just isn't as pretty when it's cloudy.  
<This is all probably a result of the tank being overcrowded. The water quality is probably very poor because of the feeding necessary and the wastes from the fish. Algae is not causing the cloudy water here, it’s probably ammonia.>
Is there something I'm missing?  Something else I should be testing, like ammonia and nitrate levels?  If so what should the level for my fish be?
<Ammonia and nitrites should be at 0 in any aquarium. You need to either get a much bigger tank for your fish or get rid of the Oscars and get some fish that stay small for your current tank. Be sure to do lots of research on the fish you plan to keep *before* you buy them. There’s a ton of info available on http://www.wetwebmedia.com  and also at http://www.fishbase.org >
Thanks...Kendall
<You're welcome! Ronni>

Cichlid Substrate - 4/8/03
Hi, great, informative website. <Thank you very much> One question that I could not find the answer to. <One of many for sure. We cannot get it all but since this sight is always be changed and additions being made. Maybe one day we will be as close to complete as one site could be. Until then, ask on my brother> I just bought a 46 gallon freshwater setup for African cichlids. <Very nice. Be sure to go to a very reputable dealer to ensure breed and if you can get young males instead of fully grown I think your long term success is initially boosted. Also be sure to support captive bred fish rather than wild caught. It is a lake and a very delicate system where these animals come from. Like all eco-systems whether oceanic or fresh, there are not infinite quantities of these animals. Plus, it is fairly easy to stimulate breeding in most of the African Cichlid species and young tank bred fish seem to do very well in acclimating (especially as the tank grows) When choosing fish, be sure to look into interaction and adult aggression and be aware of the adult size of your fish. I really like the site http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/>  I liked the way the crushed coral and Aruba Puka looked, so I asked if it could be used  as gravel in freshwater.  The uninformed worker at the petstore said yes, but now I am finding that websites are not recommending it. <Not familiar with the Puka but I do use crushed coral in my filters to buffer PH and keep it at a constant 8.0 to 8.3>  Should I remove it, or try to just adjust my chemicals? <I would go for sand as this is what I use. Cichlids love to dig in the sand (natural as this is usually their method for capturing prey) and make nest in the pits they make by moving sand about. Not to mention it looks more natural to their environment. (Although a more silty mud is more likely their environment) I would avoid the crushed coral but I don't think it will kill them if that is what you are asking. Maybe remove it put some of the crushed coral in a filter situation? Again, I have used it for the last 6 years in my filters and have had no losses. Be sure to keep up on the water quality and have fun. Go for the bio-tope. Look into books as well. Later- Paul>
Thanks for any help,
Scott

Need Help Fast! Plumbing to Sump or Filter for Cichlid tank
I have a 300 gallon tank on the way with three overflow boxes on the outside back which skim a total of 66" of surface area and feed (through Durso standpipes) six 2" drains. I was assuming I'd need to plumb 2" pipes from the overflow boxes into one large (nearly horizontal) 6" main drain pipe that emptied into a sump or fed a filter intake.
<many possibilities... that's one>
I am still unsure about what the best approach may be. For instance, if I use a pond filter or aquaculture filter system for the tank, how do I feed it with a 6" drain pipe?
<just drain all raw overflowing water to a sump... or better yet, a primary partition where the skimmer sits or Then, from there you'll have a dedicated pump that feeds the filter or perhaps a teed line (bleeder) off the main return pump to feed the filter on a loop>
If I were to design the overflow more traditionally, how would I ever get enough overflow to that same filter with just a 1 or 2
inch pipe?.....
<all water does not (should not) go to the filter first... it should go to gross filter first (settling chamber, daily cleaned course pads, etc)>
Hence the multiple 2" pipe feed for plenty of flow. Sounds
like a "Catch 22" whereas you need the flow for the big system, yet no pumps accept a large supply pipe feed.
<no worries... bud. You are just a little mistaken. All will be clear when/if you see some big pretty store installations... tours of public aquarium filtration set ups, etc>
It would seem a sump is necessary.
<correct and critical for large displays>
Is a sump the way to go for this FW cichlid community?
<its not mandatory, but would be very helpful and add to system stability>
I had planned on first using a micron bag, then biomedia, then chemical chambers (in case of future needs), a nice open sump area, and two Iwaki returns to a manifold over the
aquarium.
<actually sounds perfect>
I'd love to get a contained system though.
<tedious to work with IME>
I see some of the Aquanetics stuff on their site, but I can't see if it would be appropriate for my needs.
<I have worked with Aquanetics products for about 15 years (their commercial products even more so) and have very little respect for their quality>
I think my key desire is to get that first shot at the water
with a micron mechanical filter that is easy to clean daily (thus the bag idea).
<agreed>
I need filtration (wet/dry or other? extra biological needed like fluidized bed?),
<either>
heat (fireplug or submersibles in the sump?),
<the Aquanetics Fireplug is one of their few products that I really do like>
potential for UV filtration....
<save your money... will not prevent the spread of disease well or at all in the display and is not needed if you QT all new fish like you/we should>
all in my living room or piped to a spot just outside the back
door and returned to the tank. I see the Aquanetics System Packs, Bag Filters, etc.
<I would not take it for free... seriously. But that's just my opinion, experience. Poll the message boards for a consensus>
but do not know enough to make a good choice. I've been researching for weeks, and the tank is almost here!
<OK>
I want a museum quality setup, yet I do not know just how to obtain it.
<make the drive to a regional aquarium society meeting to seek advice of experienced aquarists and see their setups... visit a public aquarium too... call in advance and set up a sneak peak at their filters>
I know you may not want to make specific manufacturer, etc.
<nope... we can. And we do. We are unpaid and unbiased. The few advertisers we have and all of our readership understand and appreciate that I believe>
recommendations...... but that's exactly what I need. What would you do?
<relax <G>>
If wet/dry, must the micron bag be over the top of the bioballs, or can a configuration allow the bag to be at the same level with the water flowing over a tall barrier and then over the biomedia?
<for any/all you will still have a bonded filter pad between the micro (if at all) and the bio-balls. Your dilemma here bud is that you simply need to see (eyeballs) some big installations then all will be quite clear. You really also need to slow down and have patience. Just because the tank is being delivered in days does not mean you have to fill it as the movers are carrying it into the house <G>. Chill bubba. Take weeks or months to build your museum quality display if you truly want to succeed. Else, you will get a stinky fish tank that looks like it was thrown together in a hurry.>
I've got many more questions than answers, sorry!
<No worries... all in good time. Best regards, Anthony>

A rock question (old LR for cichlid tank use)
I friend of mine has a case of real coral rock ..its dead rock but I was wondering if I could put this in a fresh water cichlid tank!
<If these are types of cichlids that enjoy hard, alkaline water yes. Some do not. If you're not sure, but know the names of your fishes, you could likely find out their natural water conditions on fishbase.org.
Bob Fenner>

Filters and cichlids
Hello again! More questions, this time fresh water African Cichlids. I have a 29 gallon tank set up with 7 different cichlids, about 1 1/2'" each.
<Please be warned that if these are Malawi African Cichlids, they will soon begin killing one another until you have perhaps 4 fish, maybe fewer. They are highly aggressive, territorial and do not stop once they have beaten another fish into submission. They usually go ahead and polish them off. I never use Malawi Africans in anything less than 75 gallons.>
I currently have a penguin 170 power filter and everything seems fine. I am going to change to a canister filter so as not to have to see the filter box on the back of the tank, as both the front and back of the tank are visible (I know a sump/wet-dry with drilled tank would be optimum, but the tank is in place and that stuff is expensive) So now I'm looking for a recommendation, Marineland magnum 350, Rena Filstar XP2 or Fluval 304?
<Of these options, the Rena, but I would look at Eheims too.>
Looking at the flow rates of each tells me buy the Magnum, more flow = more filtration, Right?
<No, not necessarily.>
But the other two have capacity to add more and different media. Is that something I'll need with this cichlid tank?
<You will need to use a media able to support biological filtration.>
Thanking you once again, Jack
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Freshwater Algae Difficulties
Hi Bob Fenner,
I have a 29 gallon hard alkaline cichlid tank with a brown slime "algae" I think, growing throughout it. I was wondering what it is and how if possible to alleviate it.
<You can find a lot of information about controlling algae in freshwater tanks here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwalgcontrol.htm -Steven Pro>

CLEANING CRUSHED CORAL SUBSTRATE!!!!
Dear Robert,
<Steven Pro this evening.>
I'm so glad I found your site. I hope you can help me with my new
cichlid tank set up.
Though I cleaned 40 lbs. of crushed coral the best I could, once it was in my tank with water (46 gallon) it still seems to be very dirty as the tank has been white and cloudy for a couple of days and each time I move around the substrate, it kicks up more and more white dust to cloud the tank. I have an Eheim canister filter attached #2217 and am using a Powerclear power head #402 for water movement..
Is the clouding eventually going to go away?
<Yes>
Is it normal to have the substrate give off a white cloudy mix every time I move it around?
<Very normal to have cloudiness with crushed coral.>
Should I simply try not to disturb the crushed coral?
<Eventually it will settle down, get trapped in your filters, and removed with water changes.>
Thanks so much for your advice! Mitchell Wexler
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

RE: CLEANING CRUSHED CORAL SUBSTRATE!!!!
Thanks so much.....really appreciate it!!!!!
I can't seem to locate your website address.....please advise me so I
can keep checking with it as I develop my cichlid tank. Thanks.
Mitchell Wexler
<www.WetWebMedia.com
Bob Fenner>

Re: Please Help Me Decide
Hello Anthony or Robert;
<hello, again Peter. Anthony still here fielding queries while Bob refines his new found talent for burping Mozart>
Continuing with the tank building mentioned below. The tank below has at the moment 4 Jewels and a Jack Dempsey, all under 4 inches that I put in to get the tank going and plan to sell back to the LFS before putting the Africans in the tank. The are all doing well.
<excellent>
You (Anthony) suggests adding 3 fish monthly to build the biological filter, however, I live on Martha's Vineyard and the LFS has no African cichlids to buy (the regular fish prices are up there though).
<just as an aside... please moon Martha Stewart for me if you get a chance...and have a smiley face painted on your rump for comic relief>
A trip off island to buy three fish once a month gets costly, ferry ride, one hour drive to store etc. I thought about getting fish from Armke's or another on-line place but the shipping seems the same for three fish or thirty.
<I'm not thrilled about buying or recommending "sight-unseen" livestock purchases. Dry goods are another matter>
Here's the dilemma, I found a place that has two 100 gallon African tanks
that they are trying to stop carrying since the employee that knew Africans left and no one there knows much about them.
<pathetic that some store owner's livelihood is so fragile that he would rather compromise his business than learn something new>
In theory I could go there and really stock my tank in one trip and save a ton of money. However, there is the bio filter problem.
<you will have to compromise with possibly daily water changes for a short while (perhaps 4 weeks) to compensate. It is not recommended, but possible with diligence if necessary>
Question is could I put say a dozen 2-3 inch fish in the tank and expect to get them through the cycling phase? 
<dependant on faithful frequent water changes and water testing>
I have a Magnum 350 with 2 Biowheel 60. I was thinking of adding either a Filstar or a Super King for extra filtration anyway.
<an extra canister filter or wet/dry would be better... consider a DIY wet/dry filter ... easy to build>
If I were to do this what else would help? How much water
change how often? Cycle? Extra Cycle? Filter Material from old tank?
<save your money on the cycling additives, but do add a bit of seeded filter media>
I'd really like to get the fish in bulk as long as I can keep them alive. I realize it would take lots of attention to the tank for a month or so but....
<agreed... you have your work cut out for you...ahhh, the trials of a dedicated aquarist!>
Thanks Again, Peter
<very kind regards, Anthony>

Fresh water Question?
Hi Bob, I just purchased a 135 gallon reef ready Aquarium with a Berlin protein skimmer.. I'm going to put my 2 Oscar's in there. Do I need a heater?
<Mmm, yes to the heater... but Oscars as in South American Cichlids? They don't need a skimmer... or a reef-ready system>
and do I also need air diffusers??? I'm kinda confused...From what I have been reading is the tank should be all set and I don't need the heater & Air..
Thanks for your help
Carol in Wisconsin
<Time to take many giant strides backward. Do get, read over a standard overall freshwater textbook on freshwater aquariums. Perhaps one of the Paul Loiselle "Tetra" books on South American Cichlids as well. References on the Freshwater Index of WetWebMedia.com
Bob Fenner>

Crushed coral in freshwater?
Hello Mr. Fenner,
A friend of mine has been sold crushed coral for his 110gal. new freshwater setup. He plans on breeding some expensive African cichlids and was told by this shop owner that coral was the best way to raise his PH to over 8.
<Mmm, one way, yes... depending on your water composition...>
We live outside Houston and our PH is naturally around 7.5 to 7.8.
<For what sorts, species of Africans? It might be worthwhile to investigate other components of your source water... Malawi, Tanganyikan, other large African bodies of water have, for instance, some differing salt compositions... worth augmenting in some cases... but a pH in the mid to upper sevens is great for (lazy folks) like me for "batch processing" large water changes for health, reproduction of these fishes...>
I told my friend that coral in freshwater will decompose and eventually raise his ammonia level. I also told him that there was better & safer products to accomplish his goals, but I can't remember what they are called.
<Hmm... well he can dedicate himself to very regular gravel vacuuming (weekly)... but/and many commercial breeders of these cichlids use no substrate at all... relying on the buffering (alkaline) capacity of the water, changes... to avoid the symptoms you list>
Did I give my friend good advice? He is also considering seashells in his tank for his future shell-dwellers. His filter system is a wet/dry & Eheim canisters. Thank you very much for your time.
Steve Tilotta
<Much to chat about. Let's get more specific with what species he intends to produce, the number, size, shape of the systems... if they're to be tied together. Please have your friend contact me, or you relate these facts. Take a read through the Centralized and Flow-Through Filtration pieces: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/cntfiltbiz.htm
on our site. Bob Fenner>

Pelvivachromis
I have a Pelvivachromis , I only know it's name from your site, before
I called it a Karibinzi, or something like that,
<Yes, Kribensis is still used for the common name of at least one member of this genus>
any ways, I am thinking
about re-doing my tank, I have a 30 gallon community tank for 3
years, and I have stayed FAR away from cichlids as I have herd they are
highly aggressive.
<Many of them are... but as you know, some smaller ones from Africa and South America are much more easygoing>
However, as I have been in many pet stores I have
seen that they are some of the most colorful fresh water fish around, so
I would like to make my tank a good environment. 
<Ah, good>
I currently have 2 rummy
nose tetras and two LARGE silver dollars, about 4 " vertically, so I am
think about moving them out. But I don't know if a tank with more than
one type of cichlid works, as I have heard horror stories of them killing
each other.
<Yes, you are wise here to investigate ahead of stocking>
can you please give me some advice on what to buy and not
buy, or even if it is a good idea at all.
thank you.
(please forgive the spelling)
<No worries my friend. Your intent is clear. Much to state here re possible combinations. I encourage you to look into the many cichlid sites on the Internet, and to invest in one or more (your library may have these) of the "Fishkeeper Guides..." to Cichlid fishes that were done by Tetra Press. Mainly by Paul Loiselle as author. Do set upon a "central" species/theme for your system... as thirty gallons is a small world. Perhaps a pair of your Pelvivachromis, and some "matching" catfishes from Western Africa. You can use a powerful tool on the Net, Fishbase.org here to help you: http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.cfm?ID=7778ulcher
Be chatting, Bob Fenner>
Lindi Smith

Re: (cichlid) fish help
Dear Robert. this is Lindi gain I just e-mail you a while ago, but
looked around this site some more, these are the fish that I thought
might be nice
Pictograms cacatuoides
Pictograms steindachneri
Microgeophagus ramirezi
Aulonocara
Julidochromis ornatus
I HAVE- Pelvivachromis pulcher
I have also looked at Jack Demises, I have no clue how to spell the
last name.
<Like the famous heavyweight American boxer (commonly named in his honor) Jack Dempsey>
well could you please tell me if they are compatible?
<The first four above in your list can go together in a large enough system (like an individual per ten gallons), the Aulonocara genus really best kept with others of the same genus or other equally tempered Great Lakes of Africa Cichlids (but a thirty is too small for adults of this species), the Julidochromis best kept in a group by themselves... and the Dempseys too big as well... Bob Fenner>
thank you so much
Lindi Smith
<Do listen to me when I caution you against using "just" the net as your source of learning here... even from yours truly... too easy to have only a "partial understanding"... and consequent trouble. Do seek out cichlid websites (put the name in your search engine and you'll be amazed), the books I suggested, and other general works on Cichlids. Bob Fenner>

Cichlid System Filtration
We are looking at switching tanks, we have about 90 cichlids and they are continually reproducing, We are moving to a newly built house in which we will be putting tanks in the wall. What size do you think we need? 150 gallon or more. Maybe 2 150 gallons side by side. We have 7 feet to work with.
<Hmm, the bigger the better... what species of cichlids?>
What filtration should we use on this (these) tanks?
<Large, vigorous... sump types would be best...>
Can I use just a couple Eheim canister filters?
<Yes>
If we go with a drilled tank instead of the canisters, do we go with the corner overflows into the canisters?
<Hmm, a plan... please see the "Filtration" sections for Marine Systems posted on the site: www.WetWebMedia.com>
Your suggestions would greatly be appreciated!!!
Your book IS AWESOME!!
Thank You Rocky Hawkins
<Thank you my friends. Bob Fenner>

Water preparation
Hello Bob.
I am planning on setting up a discus tank some time in the not-too-distant
future, and I wanted to ask you about water preparation for a discus tank.
I live in the Los Angeles area, and we have very hard, high pH water.
<I am with you here... live in San Diego with similar "liquid rock" tap>
Discus, of course, want softer, lower (neutral) pH water. I have been
trying to determine the best way to reduce the pH and hardness of our tap
water, and I have encountered as many solutions as the number of sources I
have investigated. I have heard things like "aging" water with peat moss
to soften it and using chemicals like pH Stable to bring very low pH water
to the appropriate level.
What do you suggest?
Thanks, Doug Fitzpatrick
<Thanks for asking... of all concomitant circumstances there was just this sort of question in the most recent issue of AFM by Paul Loiselle re other cichlid fishes... he suggested picking species that more fit the local water conditions (!)... I suggest immediately (no stopping at "Go", no collecting "$200"...) investing in and using a reverse osmosis filter unit for your Discus, drinking and cooking water needs... and possibly just add some of your ordinary tap back to this... for a bit of mineral... Now, a whole bunch more to state here... Yes, where wild Symphysodon originate (in the wild) their water is exceedingly soft and acidic... but, thank goodness, the cultured varieties are "unnaturally selected" to tolerate much more domestic conditions... And, yes, tapwater can/could be variously treated with inorganic, and/or organic acids... directly or through addition, circulation through... peat... other materials... But do trust me here (after checking other people's opinions)... and do subscribe to TFH magazine or look through old copies for their "Discus" guru's monthly administrations... as well as the several excellent books on their care available nowadays. 
Bob Fenner, who really needs to get more "cichlid" pieces on www.WetWebMedia.com, and thanks you for the prompting>

Help with new aquarium (African Cichlids)
Hi Robert,
I just acquired a 135 gal. tank, that I want to have African Cichlids in. 
<How nice!>
I have several questions that I hope you can help me with. 1) What is the best aquascape for this type of fish?
<Hmm... actually there are a few types... of a few Lakes... my fave for a first out would likely be a rocky shore... but do yourself a giant favor and look into some of the neat small books on these fishes... Available through... Amazon.com, Barnes and Noble...>
I was thinking of making 1/3 rocks, a 1/3 open, and the last 1/3 plants with a sand and pebble floor. Would that be ok? 
<With some planning, yes... much to say here... Best to set upon a plan to keep the sorts of livestock you like best... investigate the water quality, types of environments they live in/prefer, then match your system to their needs/preferences... as you will soon know.>
2) Also, would a freshwater ray survive with the cichlids? 
<Not really... these are all from parts of South America... enjoy soft acidic waters for the most part... not the same sort of thing you will find for your cichlids>
3) I have elephant nose fish also, and I was wandering if this tank is big enough to house them also, without fear of the cichlids fighting with them. If not I will need them in their own tank. I want to set this tank up the right way, the first time around, so I really appreciate any and all information you can give me. Thanks in advance.
Sincerely, Shirley
<Not to seem too negative hopefully, but your Elephant Nose will be much happier in its own quarters... with more peaceful, less competitive-eaters than your new cichlid tank... Bob Fenner>