Popeye F4

FAQs on Exophthalmia/Pop-Eye 4 & Eye Injuries

Related Articles: Exophthalmia/Pop-eye, Environmental Disease,

Flame Angel-Eye Injury? 3/7/20
Hello Bob and team!
<Anik>
Hope you are well. I usually ask about wrasses but this time I’m switching it up a bit. I have attached a couple of pictures of my flame Angel who has a cloudy eye. It’s only one eye and doesn’t look like flukes or bacterial but would love your opinion. It’s not popping out like Popeye either...just like a film with a little bit of the film hanging off.
He’s a big guy, and often dives head first a feedings and I’ve seen him bang mouths with his tank mates before. He has the following tankmates in a 200g (2x Yellow Tang, purple tang, coral beauty angel (no fighting), Scott's fairy, Lineatus fairy, flame hawk, black fin fairy, Melanurus, solar fairy, Ocellaris clown, Niger trigger, Aussie tusk and mystery wrasse).
There’s no aggression in the tank at all, specifically the flame just minds his business and even now is acting normal. It is grazing and eating aggressively when I feed.
Do you think this looks more like an injury or some sort of disease/pathogen?
<Very likely an injury... mechanical; from bumping into something; as it is one-sided. At this point I would just observe (not treat); and read here re: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PopeyeF4.htm and the linked FAQs files in the series (above in blue)>
Thanks Bob and Team!
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Purple Tang eye problem 12/14/18
Hello,
<Hello there>
I have recently found your site, I have a purple tang who looked in very good health when I bought him. On the second day in my aquarium I notice a singular eye did not look quite right. The issue is now 3 weeks old and his eye appears to be in the same condition. It looks as though air is trapped under the lens of his eye. The other eye looks normal but the fish I would say is more reclusive and stressed than if his eye were not suffering.
Please see my photo. Is there anything I can do for this <This is a physical trauma caused by the fish hitting something (likely rocks/decorations); or by some tankmate nipping at it, please see/read the
following link and the related ones: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/popeyetrauma.htm
Cheers. Wil. >
Re: Purple Tang eye problem 12/14/18
Hello,
Thank you for the reply, I have studied the thread you linked and from my understanding the best course of action is likely to do nothing as it seems most like the physical trauma to the vascular network that Bob commented on 12/27/06 with regard to Holocentrid. Is this correct?
<Yes, as Bob stated.>
Should I dose Epsom salt and if so what is your recommended dose rate?
<Just maintain good water quality and be patient, as complete recovery may take several weeks.>
Cheers,
Lloyd
<Cheers. Wil.>
Re: Purple Tang eye problem 12/14/18
Thanks Wil,
<Glad to help >
I´ll maintain water quality and hope for a full recovery.
<Good. Please keep us posted>
Regards,
Lloyd
<Wil.>
Re: Purple Tang eye problem 1/10/19
Hello Wetweb team,
<Hey Lloyd>
I wanted to let you know that my purple tang has made a full recovery with hyposalinity and the use of Sea Chem Paraguard. I was very skeptical until about day 13-15 of treatment as his condition did not appear to be improving. Then one night lights out and the very next morning he was better. I have continued the treatment for the recommended length of time and will be bringing salinity back up in a weeks time but I wanted to thank you for the advice and notify you of the improvement.
<Glad to know everything is fine with your PT.>
Kind regards,
Lloyd Cook
<Greetings. Wil.>

Emperor Angelfish with PopEye 11/29/18
Hello,
<Hey Michael>
I reaching out to you because my beloved emperor angelfish needs help. In the last month he developed Popeye in his right eye, I believe it is an injury.
<Yes, a physical trauma>
Last week the swelling in eye was improving, about half way back in the eye socket. But now over the past two days it has swelled up bigger than before, and even worse there are three little air bubbles in his eye. I’ve had this fish for 5 year and he’s between 9-10ins long.
<It is reaching its maximum size to swim freely in a 240gal tank and it may be bumping with the rockwork or side panels of the aquarium>
I follow proper quarantine procedures and have parasites such as ich. Also he is not stressed out, he's the dominant fish and still eating well but has trouble lining up his food to his mouth.
<It is caused by a lack of complete peripheral vision>
What do you recommend I do?
<Read http://www.wetwebmedia.com/Popeyetrauma.htm and the related links.>
Tank details
240gal with 100gal sump
7 year old system
Ph 8.0
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Thank you,
<You´re welcome Michael>
Michael Walton
<Wil>

Caring for a blind fish 1/8/17
Bob,
<Hey Eric>
Happy New Year to you. My fang tooth blenny had a run in with a Bristleworm and unfortunately his eye is in bad shape. Its totally cloudy and puffy. Unfortunately it only had one eye so this is a very bad injury. Since the fish cant see I was able to get it out of the main tank and into a QT tank and am treating with erythromycin hoping it will help
some. I am assuming that the eye is probably gone but am holding out some hope that it may heal to a degree. Can a blind fish actually find food?
<Yes it can... particularly foods that move and have odor... and better in smaller volumes of course... for finding>
I don't think it will be able to compete in my 180 with all the other fish so worst case i can setup a nano tank for it. Would I just be wasting time though?

Eric
Re: Caring for a blind fish 1/20/18
Bob,
<hey Eric>
So the swelling in the fish's eye is gone and it actually looks normal.
<Ah, good>
Is there a way to tell if the fish can actually see out of it?
<Mmm; moving a dowel, net handle in the water, outside the tank... the fish should react similarly>
Its in a 10 gallon qt and hides in a pvc tube and only comes out to eat. It misses quite a bit of the food so i am thinking its blind. The eye though looks different than the eye I know is blind. The blind eye has an opaque color
over the lens. The injured eye doesn't appear to have this look.
Eric
<BobF>

Blue Ring Angel. Pop-eye 1/3/17
Hello you all and thanks for all you do for us out here!
<Welcome Jim>
I have a ten year old Blue Ring Angelfish. A couple of times in the last year or so one of it’s eyes have bulged out. About a month ago, same eye bulged out again, now this week the other eye bulged out.
Any idea’s ???
Jim
<Mmm; yes. The general term for eye bulging is exophthalmia... can involve a few parts of the eye; and a few etiologies. Most one-sided (unilateral) events are due to physical traumas; bilateral cases can be a matter of too much gas (embolism) in the system, bacterial and protozoan complaints, and various water quality and nutrition issues.
Do you have data to offer? Bob Fenner
Re: Blue Ring Angel 1/3/17
Hi Bob, thank your for writing. I've heard you speak and admire your knowledge.
When you mention gas in the system do you mean in the water ???
<Ah yes... Emphysematosis. I have an olde koi pond article re: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/PdBblDisease.htm
I don't bubble the 60 gallon tank its in I use the return water from a Magnum 350 canister filter aimed at the surface to add oxygen to the tank.
<Ahh; only a guess... one doesn't always see the supersaturated gas... like cold water in a glass when it warms...>
Only other occupants are a powder blue tang an a clownfish.
<These would likely show symptoms as well. BobF>
Jim
Re: Blue Ring Angel 1/3/17
Bob, neither the clownfish or the powder blue tang show any signs of eye bulging, only the blue ring angelfish.
<Yes; understood>
So am I to understand that you feel there is too much gasses in the water by my return flow from the canister filter breaking the surface constantly??
<Mmm; no... again, this was just mentioned as one possibility>
That is could be the cause of the bulging eyes?
<Not likely as the other two fishes aren't showing exophthalmia>
After reading your pond article this is what I’m understanding. Sorry I lack the water testing equipment. I rely on monthly water changes. This has been my success maintaining the aquarium and angelfish.
Jim
<Re-read my initial response. Some sort of bacterial condition exacerbated by water quality, nutrition is likely at work here. Proffering foods soaked in vitamin, HUFAs, probiotics, improving water quality (look to RedOx as a window here) are the best avenues for improvement. Bob Fenner>
Re: Blue Ring Angel 1/4/17
thanks Bob !
<Welcome Jim>

Eel question and what gives 7/22/17
Good morning Bob,
<And you>
How are we doing?
<Fine, thanks>
I picked up a zebra moray nearly three weeks ago from a local store. The store he was purchased at is very much a sell cheap, hope to move the fish shortly after arrival type place (passing the obvious losses on to the
customers, sorta like the hit a wholesaler might) .
<These outfits go out of business in short order; unfortunately taking a good deal of hobbyists out of the interest with them>
He has not eaten as of yet, at least not in front of me. Roughly how long can an eel go, say a 2 foot relatively thick one go without eating before you start to worry?
<Gymnomuraena; IF started in "good condition" (index of fitness); weeks to a few months. Have you tried crustaceans/shrimp; live?>
And lastly, in the past to weeks, I have had two different fish have one eye blow up, becomes a giant bubble for 3-4 days, before the eye falls off and the fish goes downhill after. I know one eye generally indicates a mechanical injury, but at that rate my tank would be fishless.
<Mmm; worrisome. If not coincidence, then what at play here?>
To me that sounds like the wrong kind of luck, is there any precautions you would take to attempt to slow this?
<Checking all parameters you can; even sending a water sample out for analysis. Do you check for electrical issues in your water?>
Perhaps removal of sharp edges rocks from tank?
<Maybe; but... fishes in the wild avoid running into sharp objects>
Boost tank magnesium to help with injuries and swelling?
<Perhaps>
The fish in question that it happened to are a subadult Koran angel, and Sailfin tang.
<These are very agile species...>
Thanks in advance, bob
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Popeye on clown 9/29/16
Good morning! My clown injured her eye as she and her mate were doing the bump and rub.
<Good desc.>
I read on your site about doing a water change(done) and adding Epsom salts and wanted to verify the dosage of 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons.
<Yes; about right and safe...>
I have mushrooms and palm tree corals along with button polyps.
<Should work out for these as well. I will make the obligatory cautionary statement here re allelopathy and the need for regular maintenance to avoid triggering a cascade event>
The other fish are a yellow tang and 2 pajama cardinals. I will have to treat the whole tank (as trying to dislodge mama clown is like trying to reinvent the wheel) and wanted to make sure that the Epsom salts are safe for everyone. Thank you for your time,
Kellie Kyser
So Mote It Be
<Indeed. Bob Fenner>

Re: Popeye on clown 9/30/16
Mr. Fenner, thank you replying so quickly. In your honest opinion, should I just let her heal naturally. She shows no sign of any distress and her eye is clear. I have attached 2 photos. Truthfully, although I read about adding Epsom salts to the tank, I did not see any explanation as to why it would be beneficial other than speeding up the healing process.
<Mmm; as with human use... MgSO4 is a "muscle relaxant" and vasodilator... my thinking (okay, guessing) is that it allows more blood flow... aiding
repair in the highly vascularized areas esp., like fish eyes>
I prefer not to use chemicals and in the 6 years of this tank running, have only used a chemical, PraziPro, once and that was due to what was thought to be a parasite but turned out to be a streamer of algae on tangs barb. I highly valve <and value I hope!> your opinion on this and only want to do the best for my tanks' inhabitants.
<Mmm; seeing these pix; and if this fish, system were mine, I would hold off on actual treatment, salt use. As you've stated, with general good care, nutrition... this fish should heal of its own accord. BobF>
Thank you again,
Kellie Kyser
So Mote It Be
<Still moting?>

Re: Popeye on clown 9/30/16
Thank you sir and, as always, much appreciation for your knowledge and time. Have a wonderful day ��
Kellie Kyser
<And you Kel. B>
So Mote It Be

Re: Popeye on clown 10/7/16
Good morning! Good news! My female clowns' PopEye is completely gone. I wished to share with you the news of her recovery. Thank you for your insight on letting her heal naturally. Have a great day ?
So Mote It Be
<Thank you for this update Kel. Excelsior! Bob Fenner>

Wrasse Problems; anomalous loss, blindness RMF's go 10/19/15
I have an 80 gallon reef tank which is home to several corals and juvenile fish. It has been set up for 10 months and has had good stable water parameters for quite awhile. Our LFS comes once per month to do a deep clean and spot check all three saltwater tanks we have in the house. I do a 10% water change in this tank every week. Water param.s this weekend were
0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 8.2 pH, between 0-5 nitrate, salinity 1.024 and temp 77 degrees F. Prior to doing the water change, I use a turkey baster to get detritus off rocks and noticed something larger than detritus blown off the live rock onto the sand bed. It was my beautiful mystery wrasse - dead.
<Mmm>
He had been exhibiting no strange behavior and ate heartily the day before (we feed a mixture of various frozen foods including mysis, bloodworms,
<I'd skip these last... not so much in marine, but freshwater systems have had troubles w/ feeding these sewer fly larvae>
Spirulina brine, rotifers and krill). I pulled him out and did not see any signs of damage to his body.
<Do you still have this fish? I would cut it open, look at the stomach contents. I suspect this fish ate something that didn't agree with it. Happens>
He looked like he had just died as there was no color loss yet. I did put him into a container with some of the tank water in case he popped up while I was cleaning. He had been with us for about three months. Today my melanarus wrasse seems to be behaving oddly. He looks fine, but I would swear that he can't see. He is bumping into other fish, rocks and corals.
<Bad>
We have had this wrasse for roughly 6 months and he has never had a problem. He looked hungry when I put food in the tank. Looked like he was trying to eat but was 'missing' the food.
<Blindness.... from what? A deficiency syndrome? I would soak foods at least once a week in a vitamin, HUFA, probiotic solution>
He has no clouding in his eyes, they look perfectly clear. I do have a 29 gallon quarantine tank that we keep permanently set up with a couple of Banggai Cardinalfish in it. I tried to catch him today but he hid behind the live rock. I thought I would try to get him tonight if he buries himself in the front of the tank where I can dig him out easily.
Obviously, I wonder if you have heard of this before.
<Thus far... have "heard" of such behavior in small Labrids; but these affects, loss are anomalous thus far>
I also wonder what could cause eyesight issues and how to treat.
<As stated>
Finally...will a wrasse be okay in a QT with no substrate. We have none at all in the QT although we do have three rocks that create a little cave area where fish can get cover.

Any advice is much appreciated!
Tiffany Cannon
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Wrasse Problems Earl's take 10/19/15
I have an 80 gallon reef tank which is home to several corals and juvenile fish. It has been set up for 10 months and has had good stable water parameters for quite awhile. Our LFS comes once per month to do a deep clean and spot check all three saltwater tanks we have in the house. I do a 10% water change in this tank every week. Water param.s this weekend were
0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 8.2 pH, between 0-5 nitrate, salinity 1.024 and temp 77 degrees F. Prior to doing the water change, I use a turkey baster to get detritus off rocks and noticed something larger than detritus blown off the live rock onto the sand bed. It was my beautiful mystery wrasse - dead.
<Sorry to hear. :( >
He had been exhibiting no strange behavior and ate heartily the day before (we feed a mixture of various frozen foods including mysis, bloodworms, Spirulina brine, rotifers and krill).
<This behavior is not unusual...a fish will often eat right up until death with no warning from appetite loss. As a side note, you can just leave out the bloodworms and stick to food of marine origin.>
I pulled him out and did not see any signs of damage to his body. He looked like he had just died as there was no color loss yet. I did put him into a container with some of the tank water in case he popped up while I was cleaning. He had been with us for about three months. Today my melanarus wrasse seems to be behaving oddly. He looks fine, but I would swear that he can't see. He is bumping into other fish, rocks and corals.
We have had this wrasse for roughly 6 months and he has never had a problem. He looked hungry when I put food in the tank. Looked like he was trying to eat but was 'missing' the food. He has no clouding in his eyes, they look perfectly clear. I do have a 29 gallon quarantine tank that we keep permanently set up with a couple of Banggai Cardinalfish in it. I tried to catch him today but he hid behind the live rock.
<Check WWM for designs on traps for hard-to-net species like this...can be made from plastic Coke bottle and such with bait inside.>
I thought I would try to get him tonight if he buries himself in the front of the tank where I can dig him out easily. Obviously, I wonder if you have heard of this before. I also wonder what could cause eyesight issues and how to treat. Finally...will a wrasse be okay in a QT with no substrate.
<On one hand the point of quarantine is that it is completely sterile. On the other hand I am 100% convinced that pure stress is a direct killer or huge contributor to the death of many fish. Because of this, I would absolutely always have some sort of cover for any fish, and none more than a wrasse that uses sand for cover...they do this for a reason and living in a shiny glass box, exposed, is probably a cure worse than a disease.
Bleach/nuke and *thoroughly* flush with fresh water some kind of decor for cover. Be it plastic aquarium plants in a pile, plastic shipwrecks or caves, or just PVC tubing (I get this in black from hardware stores, Home Depot, Lowes and cut it into appropriate sized pieces, heap it up tp give some safe cover to hide and recover in, then toss or sterilize it as above.
QT needs to be a "clean room" not an empty exposed box. You can medicate, observe, feed, and catch a fish just fine in this setup but some kind of circulation (simple airstone is fine). Obviously keep it heated, with clean water prepared separately from the main system, etc.. Sand is a hard call...would the extra stress from lack of a sleeping sandbed be worse than
possible contamination? I would err on the side of the sand but just use brand new sand in a Tupperware pan-shaped dish or what have you. No lights near the tank, a dark background, even a dark towel draped over it partially to obscure most of the light. There is a reason better dealers ship fish in black plastic bags now instead of clear.>
We have none at all in the QT although we do have three rocks that create a little cave area
where fish can get cover. Any advice is much appreciated!
<Excellent. This is what I mean as far as cover. Be sure to sterilize rock between each use of the QT tank or you may be tainting the process...live reef rock is definitely out. As for the root of the problem, what are the other inhabitants of the tank? Hard to make a call without knowing this...coral defense methods are not out of the question (stinging, chemical). May be internal damage from attackers, or parasites. Inspect it closely as you can for any outside marks. >
Tiffany Cannon
Re: Wrasse Problems 10/19/15
We have a very small chevron tang in tank, four small pajama Cardinalfish and a red scooter blenny. I think the corals we have are all fairly benign (hammer, frogspawn, slipper tongue, bubble and a couple of Paly frags) and we have no anemones (although we have two rather healthy looking Aiptasia that seemed to have come with the live rock). There is one trouble-maker in the tank. I have arranged for it to go back to the LFS on trade this upcoming weekend. We have a tube anemone that has really flourished in the tank. It is tucked in a corner and we attempted to 'wall' it off a bit with live rock. It has stung and killed a couple of corals. I had no idea how far out its tentacles were extending until I put a flashlight on the
tank last week in the middle of the night. During the day it's reach is half what it is at night! The fish seem to know instinctively to stay away from it. I knew it was possible that it might catch and eat a small fish, but didn't think the outer tentacles were dangerous to fish? I thought they were primarily for catching and pulling food down toward the center.
Any chance it can be the culprit?
<It's shocking (and fascinating) how much goes on in a reef at night as far as tentacles from "softies". Hammers and frogspawn can send out sweepers with much more reach than you might imagine...a foot sometimes. Anemones most certainly sting and stun fish, it's their entire modus operandi. I would not expect a wrasse to get nailed by them or sweeper tentacles, but it could happen. At any rate the clear but faulty eyes seem inconsistent with that to me...sounds almost like nervous system damage? Unless there are external wounds I would rule out the other fish. This is intended for retailers but serves as a concise checklist you should read through to try to diagnose this wrasse:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/aqbizsubwebindex/fishdisho.htm Hope this is helpful. >
Tiffany Cannon
Re: Wrasse Problems 10/19/15
Thanks for the quick response. Good to know about the bloodworms. Most of the fish don't seem to like them much anyway.
<Good for freshwater, not so much for marine critters. Much better choices abound.>
I will pick up some vitamins tomorrow and start giving soaked food every week.
<Good nutrition is a must of course. I recommend soaking the food in Selcon if you can get it to him. Maybe via soaked mysis squirted via turkey baster or pipette as close to his face as you can manage. Wrasses are big eaters as you have no doubt witnessed and suffer from lack of food more than calmer, less energetic and greedy species in my experience, though a hunger strike of a few days is not something to stress out over unless it starts to show. A extremely helpful bit of info I learned years ago is to observe the "temples" of a fish...signs of starvation are shown there early and clearly by sunken temples. Hopefully this will not be an issue anyway.>
Hopefully our melanarus will pull through. I appreciate your advice not to move him. It is rather complicated navigating a reef tank full of corals with a fish net without doing some damage. And I'm noticing the sickest of fish can move really fast when they are being pursued! I do still have the dead mystery wrasse. I put him in the fridge in tank water to keep him from decaying. I'll let my husband or the LFS perform the autopsy. Ewww...necessary and interesting...but....Ewww.
<Good to have this available though. Keep us posted.>
Tiffany Cannon
Re: Wrasse Problems 11/3/15
Great news...after a week or so of acting completely blind but showing no outward appearance changes to the eyes, our melanarus wrasse started to look like his eyesight was returning.
<YAY!>
He stopped bumping into things and seemed to have a better ability to navigate the aquascape and other fish, showing improvement each day. He started eating again after a week. He was picky at first and only went after bigger pieces (presumably because he could see them better). He seems now to have made a full recovery. As for the dead mystery wrasse, we didn't find anything out of the ordinary with him. It's too bad...he was very well-behaved toward his tank-mates and had much deeper coloration than many paler versions we see at the store. Thanks for your advice. We have
eliminated blood worms from the menu and have begun soaking food with Selcon. - Tiffany Cannon
<Ahh! I am reminded by reading Richard Ross's work on freshwater rays, that Thiaminase poisoning can be reversed by addition of B1 vitamin... Is part of Selcon. Cheers and thank you for your report. Bob Fenner>

Bartlett's Anthias with one severe Popeye 4/30/15
<Am wondering why so many of your words are run together? Sticky keyboard?>
Hi Bob and crew, Thanks for all your work in answering questions. I have an Bartlett's Anthias with one severe Popeye. He is the dominate Male in a group of three. He had PopEye a week ago and it appeared to go away. Just today the PopEye was back and I wanted to see if using Epsom salt in the display tank is the proper course of treatment and how much to use.
<Yes; about a level tsp. per five actual gallons>
If not the proper treatment do you have any suggestions. I had recently added several new coral frags 9 days ago I added corals and a few days latter he got PopEye.
<Unilateral I take it... almost always due to physical trauma>
The PopEye looked like it went away and he appeared to get better. 4 days ago I added several other new frags and now he has it again and he is perching on my live rock. He has been dominate and chases the other Anthias around. I am thinking my moving things around may have caused him to get injured. Maybe ran into something or chases them different because of new additions.
Other things that may have been going on:
Other changes to the tank have been my calcium was 350 and my alkalinity was 8.4 DKH and I have been raising it up to 450 and I overshot to 490.
<I'd leave [Ca] in the 300s>
My tank has 116 gallons of water and I had added 20 ml of calcium on one day calcium went up to 400 and my alkalinity remained 8.4 DKH. I waited 2 days and added another 12ml and calcium went to 490 and my alkalinity went to 7.6 DKH. I did a 10% water change and my calcium went to 465 and my alkalinity went to 8.7 DKH. all my other reading were consistent Temp 77 degrees, PH 8.4, specific gravity1.024.
Will I have any issues using Epsom salt in my display to treat the fish? Is this treatment effective?
<Shouldn't and yes. Bob Fenner>
Thanks.
Re: Bartlett's Anthias with one severe Popeye.... 5/5/15
Thanks Bob for all your help.
<Welcome>
It turns out my sticky keys from previous post was due to writhing in word copying and pasting to my yahoo email, the conversion must have made the spacing erratic.
<Ahh>
I measured the amount off recommended Epsom salt and it seemed like a large amount - 23.5 tsp - so I added the Epsom salt, but only half of what is recommended one day and added the rest the next day. The PopEye seemed to get better, but now is back.
<Ah; yes... exopthalmic conditions; when allowed to persist, can be the Dickens to reduce>
Searching the web it sounds like using the full dose is recommended and doing it everyday until it gets better. Should I try again and give the full dose?
<Mmm; not w/o changing some of the water out... the MgSO4 is still there; in solution>
Would you recommend doing it daily?
<Did I refer you to reading on WWM? Do you see the search tool? Use it or the indices. BobF>
For how many days? I am concerned about adding that much Epsom salt to the tank and what side effects it may have. Thanks.

Clown Trigger Eye Issue. 1/13/15
Hi boys!
Wow what a great site you've got! I've spent the last few hours going through all your pages and am very impressed. I couldn't find a question similar to mine for an answer so hopefully you can help me out :-)
I just picked up my first clown trigger and I'm concerned about his eyes.

There's some white marks that I wouldn't call hazy or spotty. They're what only can be described as 'floaters'. They appear to move with his movement but remain attached. Like a hangnail. Is he perhaps hitting on the rock and creating little tears? Or could it be a parasite like worms? I tried to take a couple photos, hopefully you can make it out alright.
<Could be a physical manifestation from injury, but I would definitely be treating, here for Trematodes>
I greatly appreciate any advice you may have before I go creating more problems by treating the tank for problems he doesn't have.
Thanks!
Renee
<Do you need help using the search tool, indices on WWM? Bob Fenner>

Anthias with swollen eye 5/7/14
Hello,
I am writing to ask for help with one of my new Lyretail Anthias. I bought three of these Anthias a week and a half ago and placed them in an established 20 gallon QT tank along with two clownfish. On last Friday I noticed the eye of the smallest Anthias was noticeably swollen. I read on your site about pop eye and since there is only one eye affected and all the other fish appear to be fine I figured it was just an injury.
<Yes; usually the case>
I proceed to continue with daily water changes which has kept ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate all at zero but the eye kept getting worse. At this point I am not sure what to do for the fish.
<It's possible that the addition of Epsom salt might be ameliorative>
It is still eating but not as actively as before and tends to hide most of the day. The other two Anthias seem to be picking on it but that has slowed as the days go by. Is there anything I can do to help this fish?
Can an eye this bad heal on its own?
<Possibly>
How long might it take? I have plenty of medication and Epsom salt on hand that I can use but I thought I would ask a more knowledgeable person than
myself before proceeding. Attached are a few photos. Thank you for your help.
Jeff
<It's possible this one fish suffered "barotrauma" from collection... a few days, a week before your acquiring it... There is only "experimental" actions otherwise (that I know of) that you can try... like inserting a fine needle in the outer eye... I am not encouraging you. Bob Fenner>

Epsom salt treatment with high magnesium? 3/19/14
Hi Bob and Crew, I have been a follower of WetWebMedia for many years and have always found an answer in your extensive archives to my queries, until now. I have 2 chalk bass and one of them has developed PopEye in one eye only. As I saw the other one peck it near the eye a few days ago I assume this is the cause. After searching your web site I would like to follow the advice I found there and treat my MD with 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons with Epsom salts. However, this is my query/problem, I have high magnesium levels already. Its too long a story how this came about but I am convinced it was through using Reef Crystals sea salt to set up the tank because I had high readings for parameters i.e. alkalinity and calcium ( no magnesium test at first) right from the start! Now my readings are: Alk, now a bit low 7.8dKH,
<You could raise this up... to precipitate out the Alkaline earths (Ca, Mg)....>
pH 8.2, Ca 400ppm o.k. , and Mg 1600 way too high! The Mg was 1480 a couple of days ago but I dosed 1tsp Kalkwasser to raise dKH (then 7.1) and so that must be what raised the Mg
<Not... where would the Mg come from?>
because no other additives have been used! I have been doing regular weekly 10% water changes with instant ocean to try to get things back Into sync but not sure now how to get Mg readings down?
<See above. This or massive water change outs; replacing the water with that of less Magnesium>
Back to my PopEye problem, will adding Epsom salts make the Mg situation worse? what would you suggest?

I would be very grateful for any help you can offer and thanks again for such a useful and informative site! Jenny
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Re Epsom salt treatment with high magnesium? 3/20/14
Thanks Bob for speedy reply to message below, much appreciated!
I have inserted a couple more comments/questions, hope this is o.k.!
<Certainly>
Hi Bob and Crew, I have been a follower of WetWebMedia for many years and have always found an answer in your extensive archives to my queries, until now. I have 2 chalk bass and one of them has developed PopEye in one eye only. As I saw the other one peck it near the eye a few days ago I assume this is the cause. After searching your web site I would like to follow the advice I found there and treat my MD with 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons with Epsom salts. However, this is my query/problem, I have high magnesium levels already. Its too long a story how this came about but I am convinced it was through using Reef Crystals sea salt to set up the tank because I had high readings for parameters i.e. alkalinity and calcium ( no magnesium test at first) right from the start! Now my readings are: Alk, now a bit low 7.8dKH,
<You could raise this up... to precipitate out the Alkaline earths (Ca, Mg)....> <<Think this is the way I will go with water changes as well, how high would you gradually go with Alkalinity rise?>>
<<A few dKH more... it won't stay... will precipitate out with the alkaline earths>>
pH 8.2, Ca 400ppm o.k. , and Mg 1600 way too high! The Mg was 1480 a couple of days ago but I dosed 1tsp Kalkwasser to raise dKH (then 7.1) and so that must be what raised the Mg
<Not... where would the Mg come from?><< Suggested this as all I could think of but looked on ingredients and see no mention of Mg so I am now stumped as to where it has come from!! Tested with RedSea titration but wonder if correct reading now!>>
<Me too; limewater; Kalk is Calcium Hydroxide... no Mg in it>
because no other additives have been used! I have been doing regular weekly 10% water changes with instant ocean to try to get things back Into sync but not sure now how to get Mg readings down?
<See above. This or massive water change outs; replacing the water with that of less Magnesium>
Back to my PopEye problem, will adding Epsom salts make the Mg situation worse? what would you suggest?
<< Do you mean main display here?
I couldn't catch the fish without tearing down the tank as he is small and many crooks and crannies in the reef! I read in archives its safe to dose Epsom salts at 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons, some say per 5 gallons, in main Display, do you still agree with this? Which dose should I use with my high Mg? Thanks so much for your help!>>
<<IF necessary in the main tank; yes. Trapping the Serranus, draining the tank down and removing most decor to remove it to isolation... may well be too stressful>>
I would be very grateful for any help you can offer and thanks again for such a useful and informative site! Jenny
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Epsom salt treatment with high magnesium (update)... Plus move to Popeye, Epsom f's 3/23/14
Hello again Bob, thought you might like to know that the one dose (1 tablespoon per 10 gallons) of Epsom salts to my main Display has had the desired effect and my little chalk bass is making an amazing recovery from his, very bad PopEye (caused by the other little chalk bass)!
<Ah, good>
I am very grateful! As for the Magnesium problem, I have to admit I made a mistake testing! I used Redsea's test for the first time and my only excuse is that the diagrammatical instructions had a very small *5 printed outside the box which I didn't see, meaning I was 4 drops short of one of the chemical components used! My reading now is 1400 not 1500. Still high I know but not as scary! I am following your instructions to make this 3 times the calcium reading.
Once again thanks for your help and I will continue to use your brilliant archives as before. Jenny
<Thank you for this valuable follow-up. BobF>

cloudy eyes... Cu exp. 3/18/14
Hey Bob,
A week ago I had a scribbled angel who developed some cloudy eyes. It was not unilateral, both eyes were of equal cloudiness.
<Yes; copper involvement speculated as I recall>
My uv light went out, and I am waiting for a replacement bulb to come in, and since then my water had some fog to it. (suggesting a bacterial bloom)
Could this bloom, have caused both eyes to become hazy?
<Not likely>
I pulled the fish out and placed in quarantine on Friday. I used Maracyn Plus, and the eyes are clear and as good as new again. It has been 4 days since using the Maracyn, is there a need to run it a few more days, just like people who need to run the full treatment of antibiotics?
<... the Mardel product likely is/was unnecessary>
Also, should I place him in there now, or wait till the UV light is on again? (should have bulb this coming Monday).

I checked WWM, various queries with Maracyn plus, and didn't see anything on this particular antibiotic,
<... re-search: Erythromycin>
as well as full treatment time. The bottle says treat days 1,3,5, but doesn't state how long after day 5 to keep him in there.
Thanks again for all you do
<W. B>
Re cloudy eyes... Cu exp. 3/18/14
Bob,
Yes copper was in place, Cupramine. I also have Cupramine in QT and the same level, and yet his eyes are vibrant and clear. I did this because I read on WWM that it is fine to run Cupramine and maracyn synergistically. I also wanted to see if in fact it was the .5 Cupramine causing this, and from what I have seen in QT, it is not.
If it wasn't the maracyn that took care of the eyes, not sure what else it could have been, since both tanks have equal amounts of copper, salinity. The only thing different from what I can measure, is the tank temp is running at 82, the QT 79. (degree F of course) Both are at a 1.022 SG.
Maybe the angel didn't like the 82 degree water? Again, the only comparisons I can make from my standpoint.
I will take him out of QT tonight, and place back into DT, with a short acclimation.
Re cloudy eyes... Cu exp. 3/18/14
follow up
Ok, Bob, I stumbled upon something I believe matches up. Amazing what one more piece of literature may entail.
The cloudy eyes were a result of something off in the tank. The maracyn may have helped expedite the healing process, but it may come back when he goes in to DT. So the real cause may lie in the tank. (nitrates, bacterial blooms, etc) In other words, it was a symptom, or secondary sign of something else.
Well considering I personally believe my parameters, (exception of Cupramine) are good, I may have stumbled on what caused it. From the time I got him, until the time he developed foggy eyes (5-6 days), he refused to eat. He was new, and therefore acclimating, but not eating (no nutrition) may have lowered immune system ability, therefore allowing an infection to occur, that may have not happened if he had been eating.
So perhaps rather than use antibiotics in qt, I should be focusing on strengthening him up, getting him to feed, before re-introducing him to DT.
I suppose initial logic and nature says to put the flames out of a burning house. A further superior mind says, to not keep flammables near an open flame to begin with!

Salt water angel foggy eye 10/29/13
Hi
My 6year old Koran angel developed a foggy eye.
<Yeah... unilateral... mechanical injury...>
It started last Wednesday.
I started treating him with microbe lift actives both the Herbtana
<... of no use>
and the artemiss but it does not seem to help. He is still eating well but a little less active than usual. It seems his eye is getting worst for I was able to see his pupil before but now there is a redness to it as well and I can not see the pupil anymore. I have attached pictures. Please help
Thanks
Carlo- Electric Eel
<....? Read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm
scroll down to eye issues. Bob Fenner>

Re: Salt water angel foggy eye 10/29/13
Hi Mr. Fenner
Should I be putting him in a hospital tank and treating him with maracyn
?
Thanks
Carlo- Electric Eel
<You should be reading. BobF>
Re: Salt water angel foggy eye 10/29/13
I read up in the FAQ and what I gather is that with good nutrition and good water quality it should go away on its <own>
<Ah yes>
but should I put something in the water to protect my angel against bacteria infection?
<If you're going the treatment per se route, better to get "whatever this is antimicrobial wise" into the fish... via feeding; best by injection (intraperitoneal- or intramuscular-ly. B>
Thanks
Carlo- Electric Eel
Re: Salt water angel foggy eye 10/29/13
Do you have something to suggest I use ?
<Chloramphenicol Succinate... of course. B>
Thanks
Carlo- Electric Eel
Re: Salt water angel foggy eye 10/29/13
Thank you. I will research to see where I can get it. Thank you for your help
<Pleasure>
Thanks
Carlo- Electric Eel

Re: Salt water angel foggy eye 11/1/13
Hi Bob
Our angel has stopped eating. Could it be something else?
<... what is "it"? Likely the injury alone could/does acct. for a loss of appetite>
Thanks
Carlo- Electric Eel
Re: Salt water angel foggy eye 11/1/13
The it is just still his eye being swollen and reddish. He hadn't eaten today so I was wondering if the swollen red eye could be a symptom of something else
<Keep reading
Thanks
Carlo- Electric Eel

Re: Salt water angel foggy eye 11/12/13
Hi Bob
<CEE>
It's been a couple of weeks now and the angels eye swelling went down but is still red. I noticed he is starting to get a couple of red spots of the side of his body. He is also breathing a little heavier than usual. Could he have a parasite of a bacterial infection. ?
<... sure; how can/could you tell for sure? Sampling, 'scoping. B>
Please help. I really trying to get him better. I have been feeding food with garlic and keeping the water quality good but he doesn't seem to be getting better. All the other fish seem fine.
Thank you
Thanks
Carlo- Electric Eel
Re: Salt water angel foggy eye 11/12/13
What do you meaning ...sampling scooping ?
<.... 'scoping; as in microscoping...>
Can I do something to help ?
Thanks
Carlo- Electric Eel
<Re-read re eye issues of marine fishes on WWM. Just good care is all I'd do here... HUFAs, comm. soak of foods; optimized water qual. READ! These "eye issues" take time>

Re: Salt water angel foggy eye 11/17/13
My angel really isn't doing well. He is pretty much at the bottom of the tank leaning against a rock just breathing.
<Yeeikes!>
It seems like there is something else going on cause his fins look like they are shedding.
<Very bad>
I included another picture . At this point is there something I can do to save him?
<Just hope at this point. I would turn the light/s off on the system>
If I put him in a qt tank will I just make it worst ?

I live in Canada and I don't have access to many meds like the one bob had suggested.
<No sense treating this fish at this point. Bob Fenner>
Thanks
Carlo- Electric Eel

Re: Salt water angel foggy eye 11/18/13
I don't get it though ? How did it get to this point ? I mean initially it was that he had just scraped himself right ? Did he
catch something else ? I have been soaking his food and keeping quality levels up . I do t get it
Thanks
Carlo- Electric Eel
<... damage, stress; perhaps a bacterial infection. B>
Re: Salt water angel foggy eye 11/18/13
Ok so I closed the lights and he started swimming around a little.
Should I prep a qt tank just incase ? I have a 10 gallon that I use for my smaller fish but my angel is pretty big. What size should I buy as a good qt if the answer is yes ?
<?>
Thanks
Carlo- Electric Eel
Re: Salt water angel foggy eye 11/18/13
Forget my last email. He is still breathing but upside down so I don't think he will live thru the night
Thanks
Carlo- Electric Eel

Whiteness Around Marine Fish's Eyes... ignorance of poisoning with API/Melafix, Using WWM 1018/13
Hello Guys/Gals. I am having some issues with my FOWLR tank. My Grey Poma Angel has developed pop eye.
<Unilateral? Have you read on WWM re...? No>
I thought he could possibly have been stung by my lion, but guessing not.
I began treating with Melafix,
<... worthless. READ first, ahead of writing us>
and after a week. it's not looking much better. I have now noticed a couple other fish have whiteness around their eyes, and are swimming a little erratically. They occasionally scratch against the rocks as well. My parameters have gotten out of whack. Ph=7.5.
<Too low, read>
Nitrite=0. Nitrate=80ppm.
<Too high... read>
Ammonia=0. I have since done a large water change, and have been adding Kent buffer to raise the ph.
<Not the route to go... s/b changed gradually via water changes... the buffers added there>
The nitrates have dropped to 40ppm. Any idea what the issues are? Is it the parameters? Fungus maybe? Combination? I have tried to research,
<?>
but haven't found too much.
<???. Use the terms you've presented here: Popeye, Melafix, Nitrate... >
Please help. Thanks, Aaron.
<Read, don't write. Bob Fenner>

Signigobius biocellatus, unilateral exophthalmia 9/13/13
Hi Bob,
I have a Twinspot goby (Signigobius biocellatus) in my 29g reef tank. It has been in the tank for about 9 months, doing fairly well on Mysis shrimp.
However, it has developed a bulging eye
<Single... most, highly likely a physical trauma... A run in w/ something hard>
and is now hiding under the rock with my Firefish. It comes out only when I shut the pump off to feed it. Any ideas what may cause the bulging eye and now timid behavior?
<Both related. Epsom salt may help. Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/Popeyetrauma.htm
John

Blue line eye issue 1/2/12
Hi guys, here's a 3" Blue Line Angel in a 55 QT with a striped burr fish.
They've been in there for about 10 days and this started to appear a few days ago and is slowly getting worse.
Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate all at 0. pH 8.2, temp 76. Both eating vitamin enriched PE Mysis. Angel is also eating seaweed and Angel prepared foods.
Could this be the start of Popeye?
<Mmm, maybe... but just slightly>
Or a possible injury from the burr fish during feeding time? I'm wondering how I should treat this.
Please let me know your opinion at your earliest convenience.
Best,
-Jay
<At this juncture, I'd just do a pH adjusted freshwater bath and move both these fishes... Have we been through this before? Bob Fenner>

Re: Blue line eye issue 1/3/12
Probably have been through something similar... Do you mean move them into the display tank after the fresh water dip? Even after only 10 days in qt?
<Ah, yes and yes. Please peruse here re:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dips_baths.htm
and the linked files above. Delaying at this point in time (10 days) is more harm than good. BobF>
-Jay

Re: Blue line eye issue 1/3/13
Hey Bob,
<Jay>
The bath worked out great. Baking soda really helped in matching the pH. I think that's what I missed last time. Although I will be doing this always before and after QT.
<Ahh!>
Thanks my friend :)
<Certainly welcome. BobF>
-Jay

Popeye dilemma – 12/02/12
Hi,
I need some advice on dealing with my Coral Beauty that has Popeye on one side. Paddle Boat (this is what happens when you let your kids name all the fish) most likely injured himself. I have been slowly moving fish from two smaller tanks into a 55 gallon tank setup. The Coral Beauty had been living with a pair of Blue Green Chromis. My ammonia and nitrites are zero an nitrates generally hover around 5ppm in the old tank the Coral Beauty still resides in. I almost never miss a water change and the water is crystal clear. Based on personalities, the Chromis were the first to move. On a side note, the Chromis have both found a nice cave to rest in.
This cave is also the spot my very patient and laid back juvenile Lyretail Hawkfish hangs out in. So there you have it, 55 gallons of water, 120 pounds of live rock all carefully arranged and everyone is perfectly happy to squeeze into small spot when they are not out and about.
<Heeee! Another example of an aquatic Murphy's Law>
Anyway, it only took a few seconds each to capture the Chromis but I'm pretty sure in those few seconds of confusion that the Coral Beauty crashed into something getting out of the way since his eye puffed up within a few hours.
<Likely cause; yes>
He is still eating fine and swimming around but he was a bit more agitated which he exhibits by "chasing" his reflection.
I covered the tank for a while
<Just tape a piece of paper over one end. This usually does it to eliminate internal reflections>
and he is less agitated but his eye is still puffed out after 24 hours.
My dilemma is that I'm almost positive the 55 gallon tank is a much better place for him to be as far as stress is concerned for a lot of different reasons. I would capture him
<Why? To move? I would just leave in place>
with a method I've done before where I remove everything from the tank, drain most of the water and then use a container on its side and close in on him slowly. There are no gaps for him to escape out of so he eventually swims into the container and I lift him out. The Chromis don't bother him and he is bigger than the hawk fish who apparently does not seem to mind other fish. There will be no other fish in the tank. My concern is that I may further damage his eye and that potentially, he may start to mix it up with the Hawkfish who I'm pretty sure will not back down if challenged. So there you have it. In your opinion, should I try to move the Coral Beauty now or try to keep him calm in his current home and wait and see what happens with his eye?
Paul
<This last is what I would do. Bob Fenner>
Re: Popeye dilemma 12/6/12
Hi
The Coral Beauty Popeye/injury has rectified itself.
<Ahh!>
I scooped him out, did a slow drip to acclimate him to the new tank and everything is fine. The Hawkfish was not amused and spent some time dive bombing the Coral Beauty but the Coral Beauty just sort of paid no attention when he got hit and continued about his business wandering around the tank picking at stuff. The Hawkfish has given up trying to deal with the oblivious Coral Beauty and has gone back to hanging out on the power heads, heaters and whatever else gives him a good view of the world.
Thanks for the advice.
-p
<Welcome. BobF>

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