Colt Coral collapse – 09/08/09 Hello and happy Labor Day. I hope you can help me. <Ave. I as well> I have a large Colt Coral in a 1 year old, 100g tank (40g sump, protein skimmer, carbon, PO4 remover, Chaeto, DSB, LR). In the tank I have mostly soft and LPS corals (leathers, mushrooms, Xenia, hammer, torch, frogspawn, galaxy, Zoanthids, polyps and a couple of clams). The fish are 2 tangs, coral beauty, Picasso trigger and a mated pair of clowns. The Colt has done terrific, increasing in size threefold since I got him back in March. This past Thursday the Colt literally collapsed overnight. One day it's healthy and vibrant, the next it looks like death. I've attached photos from when it was healthy (4 months ago is the latest I have but it looked the same just bigger now) and what it looks like now. I thought something must be horribly wrong with my water (but everything else appeared fine). I did 3 tests over a 12 hour period: Temp 79.6, PH: 8.4, Salinity: 1.024; Nitrate: 0ppm; <The corals need some NO3. Do you (over) use chemical filtrant/s?> Ammonia: 0ppm, dKH: 10/179ppm. Nevertheless I did a 20g water change. <Good> I left the Colt in the main tank for another couple of days thinking it might be going through a mucus shedding cycle. By day 3 it was clear that something horrible was wrong with it and rather than risk contaminating my main tank, I moved it to my QT tank. <Also good> If you look closely at the photo you can see the ends of the arms falling apart. When I removed it to the QT I smelled the tissue expecting something really foul and necrotic. It was not - just a salty, marine kind of smell. I also checked it carefully for any type of obvious parasite or snail that may have attacked it. Again, nothing. I keep a daily aquarium log that helps me with the "what the heck happened" questions that come up in this hobby. I note additions, changes, feeding and most important, observations. <Excellent> Unfortunately in this case, nothing had been introduced, no changes made of any sort to the tank in the immediate past. The last changes to the tank happened a month ago when I moved a baffle in my sump and disturbed the sand bed. I fear this released nitrogen and other toxins into the water. <Mmm, highly unlikely involved here, unless...> Within a week my tangs and clowns came down with what looked like powdered sugar on their bodies and were scraping against the rock and sand. I didn't think it was ich, didn't look quite right. I treated their food (not the water) with Kanamycin Sulfate (Seachem's KanaPlex) and within 2 weeks they were all cleared up. None of the corals exhibited any sign of sickness, just those couple of fish. So my question is, what could possibly have gone wrong so quickly with this coral? <I do think this may have been a "cascade event"... with your administering the antibiotic to the fish, some other coral poisoning the Cladiella> It's quite simply falling apart in front of my eyes. Thank you for your time and input. You folks do a great job - clearly a labor of love. Alan <I would try administering about three times the "normal dosage" of whatever iodine/ide/ate product you have on hand... every three days, three times; making water changes from another clean, established system. Please read here for general background info.: http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompppt.htm and the linked files above. Bob Fenner> Re: Colt Coral collapse   9/9/09 > <I would try administering about three times the "normal dosage" of > whatever iodine/ide/ate product you have on hand... every three days, three > times; making water changes from another clean, established system. Please read here for general background info.: > http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompppt.htm > and the linked files above. Bob Fenner> Bob - thank you for your reply. At the risk of appearing dense, are you recommending treating the affected coral or the main tank with the iodine? <Sorry for the lack of clarity. The Colt's system. I do suggest dosing Lugol's or such on a punctuated basis in Reef systems though. Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/iodratusef.htm> I assume you mean the Colt in the QT but I sometimes miss the obvious. Alan <BobF>

Green Leather Polyp... induced env. prob.s  8/26/2009
Hello all. I love your site! My question is about my Green Leather Polyp.
I have a ten gallon tank that houses 2 Percula Clown fish
<Need much more room than this>
(under 1.5 inches), and Chocolate Chip Starfish (about 3" diameter),
<Not an aquarium-hardy species>
a Scooter Blenny (2"),
<... ludicrous here>
2 Dwarf Blue Leg Hermit Crabs, and 2 Narcissus Snails with live rock and live sand. (Yes, I know that this is too small, thank you fish salesman, but I have a 37 gallon tank that I'm moving to when the live sand settles a bit :))
<Ahh, good>
. My Green Leather Polyp did sulk a bit for about a week after he was moved into the tank, but shed and did beautifully for a few weeks. The other day when I came down for the morning, the "head" of the polyp was broken off and there was a hermit crab on top of the "stump." (Unlikely culprit, I know.)
<Uhh, not so>
This polyp "head" is just sitting on the bottom of the tank still putting out it's little green polyps and the "rocks" are just sitting there, but the other day I noticed that they had separated and now there are three rocks where there were only two before. Should I expect any of this little guy to survive? Is this normal?
<Maybe, and yes for a stressed Alcyoniid colony/organism>
(I think not, but I am no expert.) My salinity is sitting at about 1.023 (yesterday). The nitrates were a little high, but after a 50% water change they came to normal (according to the fish salesman). Once I get my 37 up, I'm going to have to get my own test kits, I think.
Thanks so much!
Amanda
<Get the larger system up, move these animals stat. Bob Fenner>

Re: Green Leather Polyp... still not reading...    8/27/09
Thanks so much for the information! As always, good instruction usually leads to more questions. First, thanks for the scientific name for my Coral (Alcyoniidae). This lead to some great information on your site. I have high hopes for this guy now! The stump did get really mushy and fall apart (I pulled that out, yuck!), but I left the little rocks in there since I really didn't know what to do with those. I have high hopes for this little guy now!
Questions:
1. Since this is a Coral (yes, my fish salesman said it was a "plant" and not a "coral" and I believed him) and my Chocolate Chip Starfish hasn't eaten him or shown any interest, do you think it is safe to put more coral in my 37 gallon or do you think he's just not interested in eating that specific coral?
<I think you should read a bit more before proceeding period>
I know that soft corals are probably out, but what about the hard corals?
2. Would a Dwarf Blue Leg Hermit Crab (or any for that matter) eat Coral?
<Perhaps>
3. What about my Scooter Blenny is "ludicrous?" On advice, I bought him to help with the brown algae in my tank. I'm guessing that was a bad idea?
<... read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/mandsysfaq2.htm
and the linked files above>
Thank you so much! I'm trying to do better and you guys and your site is so helpful!
<... you show no evidence of using it... Please do so. BobF>

Aiptasia stinging finger leather 08/12/09
Good morning Crew, My question involves a lime green finger leather that has been stung by several aiptasia. I inadvertently imported some aiptasia on a Paly/anthelia frag, placing it just behind the finger leather on some base rock .A few days later I noticed the finger leather was not opening up and seemed to be shedding more than normal. On further examination the aiptasia could be seen touching the leather. I moved the leather to a safer spot and inspected it, finding a gouge on the back side like someone had sliced a chunk out. I have since gotten rid of the aiptasia but the leather only opens for a couple of days(2-3)then closes up and sheds for even more(3-4) before opening again. Is it possible that the stings could have somehow permanently damaged the leather or altered its normal behavior? Any input would be appreciated. Steve
<Hmm... are you sure the aiptasia are doing this and not something else?
Unless these aiptasia are huge, I doubt they're causing this much damage.
Perhaps... have you checked the coral for predatory Nudibranchs?
Best,
Sara M.>

Colt Coral Possible Allelopathy ... Incompatible organisms – 6/14/09
Hi
<Hello>
I was hoping you would be able to help me.
<Me too.>
My tank is six weeks old, I used RO/DI water and live sand.
<How big is this tank?>
I have live rock, branch rock, two clowns, powder blue tang, gramma, pink tipped anemone, green bubble anemone, mushrooms and three types of coral.
<First off this is a lot of livestock for a six week old tank. The two anemones in one tank are almost certainly a bad idea, and anemones of any kind in a six week old tank is begging for disaster. Anemones are very sensitive to changes in water quality. Please seriously consider removing at least one of these anemones.>
My water is all tested good, calcium just a tad high, 29.
<I need more detailed test information from you including: pH, alkalinity, ammonia, nitrite and nitrates.
Without more info it is incredibly hard to attempt to determine the problem.>
My colt coral just started to wilt and shed, mucous looking. I've had it for a week and it was doing great?
<This coral sounds like it is not happy with its location, could be because of lighting, flow, proximity to other corals, or likely chemical warfare within your tank. Please search WWM for "allelopathy" and "colt coral" and do some research for one of the possible culprits.>
One of my hermit crabs got under it and it sort of detached from the rock.?
<Likely not the hermit crab's fault.>
Not sure if it is dying or digesting like the anemones do? I would like to save it. It is about five inches tall.
Any suggestions?
<Suggestions and concerns posted above.>
Thank you for your help, can't seem to find anything about this,
Laura
<Laura please search and read about the above terms, and reply to me with specific parameters.
Josh Solomon>

white leather coral disintegrating 5/14/09 I have a problem with one of my leather corals. The tissue at the base of the coral is dying and disintegrating. <Not good> I have read around your site and have found that the recommended advise is to cut out the dead pieces and reattach to rock rubble. <Is one... extreme approach. MUCH more important to discover the source of trouble period... Chemical, predatory... and solve it> I wanted to get a second opinion on this topic (I didn't see any black coloration around the coral but the rest of the conditions seem to be the same). I have attached a picture so that you can see the damage. <Mmm, no pic attached. Please send again... along with information re the history of your set-up, stocking and order of introduction, water quality test results, maintenance MO. Bob Fenner> Thanks for the help, Eric Re: white leather coral disintegrating      5/15/09 Mmm, no pic attached <sorry it is now attached, and I also attached a pic of the tank> history: The tank has been setup for about 5 months and is 90 gallon tank with a 20 gallon sump. this is an upgrade from my previous 30 gallon tank with a 15 gallon sump that was setup for 1.5 years most of the corals that are in this tank were in the 20 gallon with the exception of a recently purchased trumpet coral (added about 2 weeks ago) it is on the other side of the tank. <Mmmm> I have 2-250 watt metal halides that are on for 6 hours a day. I also have power compacts that are on for about 12 hours a day. The sump has a deep sand bed and macro algae in it with a light that runs for 24/7. I don't remember much of the order of stocking this tank, but I think it was something like: 5 mushrooms that are now several Zoos that are now more of a pest <Yes> Green slimmer acropora (now too big) A colt coral 3 leather frags challis frag tri colored Montipora (a green bubble tip) Pocillopora then recently I have been getting some sps frags for the tank that are still very small and then finally a trumpet coral. There are several SPS corals a few LPS corals, 3 leathers (Yellow, White, Brown), 3 colt corals, some mushrooms and zoo's There is one Eibli Angel, <May be the nibbler here> Foxface, anthias, 2 cleaner shrimp, mandarin dragonet, two gobies, and two damsels. water quality tested with Sera Nitrates: 0 (mg/l) Nitrites: 0 (mg/l) Ammonia: 0 (mg/l) Phosphate (inorganic): 0 (mg/l) Calcium: 380 (mg/l) KH: 7 (dH) pH: 8.0 Mg: 1440 (mg/l) temp: 79 F maintenance: 1. 5% water change twice a week. 2. top-off with Kalk 3. temp controlled with chiller and two heaters that are all controlled with a central temperature controller. Thanks, Eric <Well, the photo looks like someone's been biting at the base... but the Zoanthids may well have a role here as well. At any length, if you have another system, I'd be moving this Alcyoniid. BobF> Re: white leather coral disintegrating Thanks for the recommendation, and thank you for the help. Eric <Welcome. B>

Re: white leather coral disintegrating  5/16/09 After a little more observation I noticed a snail in the area of the dead tissue of the coral. Is it possible that it is a turbo snail that is causing the damage. <Yes> I tried to get a picture of the snail in the act but he moved before I took the picture. Still looking for a root cause. thanks again, eric <Keep reading, observing... BobF>  Re: white leather coral disintegrating  6/9/09 A few weeks have gone by and the leather is doing great. That particular turbo snail has been placed in the sump and after removing some of the damaged tissue the coral is healthy again. Thank you for your service. -Eric <And you for this update. BobF>

White Spots on Leather, hlth.  4/29/09 Thank you for having such and informative and useful site. I've used it quite often and found the info and advice very helpful. Currently I have a 55 gallon reef and fish tank. My toadstool leather has been open and seemingly happy. However, in the last three days it has not extended it's polyps and is developing white spots as seen in the attached pictures. <I see this, these... looks like some sort of necrosis... I note the Xeniid colonies and Corallimorphs nearby> I've checked the water and all levels are good. I have a devil's hand leather coral in the same tank and it's doing very well. All fish and other coral seem to be thriving. Please advise. I appreciate all of your help and advice. <... Might be fish chewing... May be chemical allelopathy... Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompppt.htm and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Re: Finger Leather 04/11/09 Sara M., The finger leather mentioned below did continue to show signs of spreading. We fragged off the bad parts. During the night hours, we discovered what was causing the damage. Attached is a picture. <Uh oh, looks like trouble!> Can you confirm that it is a Tritoniopsis? <I'm no Nudibranch expert, but based on the look of the thing (and where you found it), I would certainly feel safe assuming that that's what this is. Especially after reading the info here: http://www.seaslugforum.net/factsheet.cfm?base=Triteleg> We believe that the circle design in the first picture sent was possibly the eggs from this Nudibranch. There are similar pictures on the Sea Slug forum. Would you agree with our assumption? <Yes... now the real question, how will you get rid of them? I would suggest quarantining the coral for starters.>Thanks again. Cindy <De nada, Sara M.>

Nice pic! RMF

Finger Leather 04/11/09 Forgot to ask, should we worry about any of these other corals we have in our tank? We have read that it typically eats soft corals. Sun Coral Acropora Mushrooms Tridacna Crocea Blue Spruce Caulastrea <Most coral eating Nudibranchs are very picky eaters. Most will only eat a few species or genera of coral (some are even specific to just one species!). As far as I know the Tritoniopsis elegans Nudibranch only feeds on Lobophyton sp. So your other corals should be safe from them.> Thanks. <Thanks for sharing the pics. Cheers, Sara M.>

Finger Leather, hlth.  04/03/09 I noticed a few days ago that one of the fingers was turning white and seemed to be falling apart. I moved the leather around to see the backside. Attached is a picture. <Yes, now I can see it.> Is this coral dying? <Well, that part of it is. But with leathers (and most soft corals), parts of them can die off without it necessarily meaning that the whole coral is dying. Is this dying part spreading, or is it staying isolated? Is there anything we can do to help it? <Right now I would just wait. If it starts to spread, you should probably frag off the troubled part. Best, Sara M.>

Soft Coral 'disappearance', Alcyoniid resp. to GSP allelopathy likely   4/1/09
Good Afternoon,
<AM, and a bit tardy... sorry>
Thanks for being such a useful resource. It is great to have a trusted information source to research matters aquatic. My question, I have a 92 gallon oceanic corner tank. Large amount of live rock with
2 tangs (Sailfin and Tomini),
1 yellow headed jaw fish,
1 four spot wrasse,
1 scarlet Hawkfish
1 Pincushion urchin
1 Blood Shrimp
1 Coral Banded Shrimp
4 Camel shrimp (Glass anemone control? – failed dismally)
1 Arrow crab (Bristleworm control?)
2 Starfish (Orange sea star and a Marbled sea star)
<An Ophidiaster and Fromia sp?>
Plus numerous hermits, snails a brittle star etc.
I have a lot of mushrooms, a colt coral, a leather ‘toadstool’ and some green star polyps. So far so good.
10 days ago I noticed a ‘branch’ from a colt coral had been detached and was pushed into in a crevice in a rock – I thought it had just ended up there by chance. I removed it, attached it to another rock and then a few days later the same thing happened. Another ‘branch’ ended up in the same crevice.
Again I ‘fragged’ it but I was more suspicious. While I was figuring out what to do, this morning I saw the whole coral was ‘pruned’ and had ended up in the same crevice. Does this sound like an arrow crab?
<Mmm, a remote possibility>
Have you heard of this happening before?
<This sort of "shedding?". Yes>
Some creature playing hide the coral? Any advice is  welcomed. I don’t want to start to lose corals and I am thinking of getting the arrow crab out of there but is he the guilty party?
Ian.
<Depending on what the Seastars actually are, they might also be implicated... but w/o actually witnessing some sort of chewing, I'm given to the idea/theory here that the one Alcyoniid is engaging in a "last-ditch" behavior to save itself from allelopathy... from the GSPs... Please read on WWM re these groups, their toxicity toward each other, behavior. Bob Fenner>

Re: Soft Coral 'disappearance'  4/1/09
Wow! allelopathy..I am still reading the definition but had to take a break to absorb it :-). Looking at the articles you recommend it would seem that the leather may be causing the shedding?
<Mmm,, much more likely the Clavulariids, next... the Corallimorphs>
This would make sense as they are in closer proximity than the others.
<Mmm, don't have to be all that close... much more likely a chemical competition than physical here>
Not in touch or sway range but close enough I suppose.
I hate to learn by these mistakes but unfortunately cannot read every reference article - I'd never make it to the actual fish part.
<Mmm, start here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompppt.htm
and the linked files in the series>
I do appreciate the response. I shall look at the layout to see if changes are in order. Would you recommend a 'safe' distance between the leather and anything else?
<Mmm, yes... along with the careful use of some chemical filtrants, but esp. a useful pattern/M.O. of introduction per the above citation>
I am going to leave the tank to settle for a few weeks after this (it is over a year old and very stable) but I am building up the corals. Would you have any specific warnings on adding Clove Coral?
<I do... see WWM re>
By the way, I have read a lot of the articles on the arrow crab and it would seem to be a poor choice on my part. A point however, which the Coral banded shrimp may have made have rendered moot.
<Both are border line predaceous in many settings. BobF>

Question on leather corals 3/25/2009
I've had a beautiful leather coral for about a year and a half and I recently noticed a rather large gaping hole towards the middle of the leather.  Does anyone know what this could be from?
<Mmm, yes... predation if suddenly occurred, summat re the environment if over a period of days, weeks>
I've heard that this could be a Rapa Rapa snail. Lately, the leather has not been doing well. How do I know if it's a Rapa Rapa snail?
<You may have to look at night... with a flashlight... or even... "dig" into the Leather to find... They have tremendous powers of regeneration, but the slime can be real trouble... so such exploratory surgery should be done outside the main tank... and successive water rinses/change-outs done to get rid of most of the slime before returning this animal to its tank... If all else "fails", this Alcyoniid may best be "fragged"... Are you familiar with this? Largely gone over in our archives>
and if so, how do I get rid of them?
<Remove physically... pull off with tweezers, toss>
What do I do with the leather and the hole? should I cut 1/2 of it off?
<Possibly>
thanks.
Bob
<Another Bob... Fenner>

White Pox? Sarcophyton concern, hlth.    3/19/09 I do not know what is going on with my leather. It has been closed for over a week now and there are white patches all over it. <I see this in your good photo> History: I have had this leather for 4 years and it has grown quite large. He resides in a 175 gallon tank and all parameters are within range, although my pH is lower than I would like (8.0 before lights on). My other corals (Ricordeas, xenia, Acropora, mushrooms, frogspawn) all seem fine. I recently added a blue headed wrasse, that never made it. The fish picked on him horribly (Blue tang, tomato clown, and especially the clarkii clown), the other fish (yellow tang, watchman goby, and flame hawk) left him alone. At first I thought that the wrasse was wounded, as his one side was not looking good, therefore I attempted to fish him out to go into my other tank (I do not have a hospital tank....don't shoot me). Anyway, trying to get him was not easy and he kept hiding by the leather (which is approx. 12 inches in diameter) and I kept bumping the leather. The leather did not appreciate this and has not opened since. However, I did notice a couple of white spots prior to the wrasse incident, but since the bumping, he is literally covered in the spots. I checked the base and it looks to be fine (although one small hole is detected). Also, I had a snail cleaning the base, which I never seen before (maybe just coincidence, the leather is very large and I normally do not get to see the base). If this is white pox, how do I treat him. And, is it possible to frag him while he is in this condition, or will the frags develop the disease as well. <Is possible to frag... but I would not do this at this point> I do 32 gallon water changes every two weeks, and top off with RO water buffered with Aragamilk. <Mmm, is possible that this material is involved here... bits of undissolved... burning the crown/capitulum. All such supplements need to be thoroughly dissolved in change out water (like a day or more ahead) before use> I do not use any other supplements and feed coral food once every two weeks <I would use this more frequently... and a iodine/ide supplement in concert with your water changes... i.e., on a punctuated basis> and the fish every day. My lighting consists of 4 96 watt dual actinics, and 3 150 watt metal halides. These bulbs are going to be replaced as soon as the bulbs arrive in the mail. <Could also be a factor> I replaced them all once a year (I know that I am suppose to replace every six months, <Mmm, actually... best by far to measure with a PAR meter or such...> but they are very expensive!) My protein skimmer is not great (homemade one from LFS that I had to rigged with a pump to inject air for it produce anything) and a secondary hang on the tank AquaC Remora with a Maxi-Jet 1200 attached...came from old 25 gallon tank). My UV sterilizer (25 watt Rainbow Lifeguard) has been off for about 2 months as I thought the bulb burnt out but when replaced still did not work. <Likely the ballast... very common with this make/brand> I have a ballast on its way to my house as I write. <Oh!> My pump is a Quiet One 6000 and I have a 25 gallon sump. <Small for this sized tank... I do hope it has a RDP lighting set-up, macroalgae culture....> Circulation is achieved with a Tunze Stream 61?? And a Hydor Koralia 4. My tank temp is rather high as I do not have a chiller, running currently around 83 degrees. <I'd change the lighting regimen, add some fans across the water surface, leave the cover off... to get/keep this under 80 F.> Thank you, Caroline <And that's about what I'd consider doing given the circumstances, events you list. Bob Fenner>