BTA Split, Entacmaea quadricolor – 8/28/07
I have read through your forums in detail, but could not find the answers I was looking for, also thank you in advance.
<You’re welcome!>
My tank is actually doing very well; All items are within the recommended limits.
<Recommended limits for Anemones, and not coral or fish I hope.>
I have had my Rose BTA for about a year, it was growing very large of approximately 1 ft across, It split the other day into 2 similar size pieces, I have read that it is due mostly to stress or very good conditions. I would like to think the latter since my corals are growing like crazy as well.
<It is most likely related to some level of stress. Your corals growing like crazy may be the reason (chemical warfare). It may also be caused from something such as a temperature swing, large portions of food, old bulbs, new bulbs, etc. It is also possible that your anemone grew too large for comfort.>
My main question is if there is a healing period that these need to go through?
<You bet! I recommend a water change after all splits. I also recommend waiting 3 – 4 weeks before removing the anemone, should you decide to find it a new home.>
Also they appear after a few days to be swelling up a little bit like normal.
<This is a very good sign.>
Also should I hold off feeding the 2 for a bit?
<You need to hold off until the mouth is completely healed. This typically takes 7 to 10 days.>
Also in my ventures I have heard that the new offspring will not split, only the original, is this true?
<That is 100% False.>
Sincerely,
John Bailey
<Your attachment did not open for me. If you would like to resend it, I will be happy to take a look at it. Good luck with your anemones! Brenda>

Anenome problem, repro.  – 07/03/07
Hi, My husband's reef aquarium is 90 gal, we have had it for 2 years with little or no problems. Tonight, he fed his fish, brine and Mysis, the usual diet, within 20 minutes the 2 bubble tip anenomes
<Are these clones? I do hope so>
were emitting a white substance that has totally clouded the tank.
<Mmm, very likely sex products...>
He tested the water, everything has tested normal, along with the salinity. The fish seem o.k., along with the corals. We do not know what is happening with the anenomes. We have no R.O. water on hand to do a partial change and cannot see into the tank to remove the anenomes. We only hope that when we wake up tomorrow that we will not loose
<lose>
any of our fish. We have no new additions to our tank, the current fish have been in the tank along with the anenomes for over a year. Can you shed any light on this?
Thanks so much.
Janice
<As stated, this is likely a reproductive event... Actinarians/Anemones do this as well as various degrees of asexual fission. Neat! I would make the largish water changes... and add activated carbon to your filter flow path... and spiff up (clean) your skimmer... Hopefully all the gametes will be eaten, removed, otherwise not cause a crash here. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Triple BTA Split, Entacmaea quadricolor - 3/23/07
WWM,
<Hello, Brenda here>
I hope this is not a bother to you as I have found some info on your site about a triple split anemone but then not all my questions have been answered so please be patient.
<Sure will>
I bought a BTA about three weeks ago and have been feeding it small amounts of either brine shrimp or chopped scallops every 2-3 days, it is a quick feeder and puffs right up after it has eaten.
<Brine shrimp has very little nutritional value.  I don’t recommend it.  I suggest silversides as the primary food.  You can also try lance fish, krill, and raw shrimp along with the scallops.  Feed portions no bigger than its mouth.>
The other day I came home from work to find it had split into 3 smaller pieces on the same rock.
I do 3 week water changes and have VHO lights and have been told I know have 5 WPG of light.
<Need to know for sure.  Also need to know the size of your tank, and other equipment.>
My parameters are within normal pH, Ca, Ph etc (I know you want exact numbers but am on a break at work and don't have all the info here with me).
<Yes, need numbers, including salinity, alkalinity and temperature.>
I am wondering if you can comment and perhaps give me some advice?
<Will try>
You did comment briefly to someone else that this split is a sign of stress?
How can I make things better?
<Could be many things.  Tank mates, over feeding, water parameters, lighting, old bulbs, new bulbs, being placed in a new environment is also stressful on them.>
Thank you for your time and attention.
Tammy
<You’re welcome!  Brenda>

BTA reproductive cloud  1/29/07
Hi
<Hi Richard.>
  I'm a little puzzled today.
<Well lets see if I can put you together.>
  Yesterday my GBTA was not opened  fully.  This has happened before and usually the next day everything is  back to normal.  Last night for a few minutes he/she release a dark fluid like substance.  I couldn't figure out why.  Today he/she looked much better and was almost fully open at about 10 inches across and I was thinking .  Tonight, he/she started releasing a milky substance which, of course, clouded the water.  This release has been going on now for about 30 minutes.  What could be the reason for this release?
<Richard it sounds a reproductive event, E. Quadricolor can reproduce through means of sexual interaction as well as splitting (creating clones of each other)…others have had similar experiences which you can search for on WWM.  I would not be concerned with the actual event itself, however I am inclined to ask if there have been any recent/drastic changes in the tank…and would also like to know the tank chemistry readings as well, just so that we can rule out any potential problems.>
What should I do about it?
<Large water change, run some chemical filtration media/carbon.>
Thanks for any help you can give.
<You are welcome.>
Richard
<AJ.>

Re: BTA reproductive cloud   1/29/07
Hi and thanks.
<You’re welcome.>
All water chemistry readings are within good parameters.
Calcium 425, Alkalinity 8.3 Nitrates 0, etc. I had done a water change of 25% (110 gallon tank) on Friday. Yesterday, some of the rockwork had sagged a little so I rearranged it which included a slight move on his/her home rock. Perhaps he's/she's stressed because of that change.
<Perhaps.>
Last night I changed 10% as I was almost out of water due to the fact that I had changed the 25% on Friday.
<Sounds acceptable.>
Today everything seemed back to normal except that the button polyps are still closed. The GBTA had great color. Its tentacles are full and plump but have rarely been bubble tipped. He/She is active today and has moved to a new location. I don't believe he/she is eating normally yet, because the Formula one just sat in amongst its tentacles and didn't make it to the mouth before the clowns and shrimp poached most of it.
<I would hold off feeding for at least a few days.>
Also, shortly after I fed it, it started to release some more milky stuff. I have Chemi-pure which I'll start right away.
I did read several articles late last night and noticed the pictures of the "smoking anemone." Those could have been mine except for the color.
I'll also do another 25% water change ASAP.
<Sounds like you’re on the right track.>
Thanks again, A. J.
<Anytime.>
Richard
<Adam_J.>

Re: BTA conditions/sexual reproduction   1/29/07
Hello again, A. J.
<Hi.>
A little more info.
<O.k.>
I tried to vacuum the milky substance as it was released last night. That event lasted about an hour. I did another 25% water change today.
<Sounds good.>
The anemone has moved again and is now looking somewhat smaller.
<This doesn't sounds good...>
I don't see another anywhere in the tank. I was thinking that he may have split during the night. Oddly though, he had a rather large white solid looking substance (poop? that finally disappeared)
<Or intestines "insides"....if it is unhappy.>
hanging from his mouth most of today and his mouth has been fairly elongated today, too.
<Also not a great indicator.>
His tentacles are fairly plump and they have good color. Should I continue with the water changes and if so for how long?
<a trio of so of 20% should suffice, and then continuing with your normal schedule.>
The Chemi-Pure is working. I will hold off on the feeding for a while.
<Sounds good.>
I've double checked all water parameters again today. They are the same as yesterday.
<I would just be patient and keep a watchful eye out as of now.>
Again, thanks.
<Anytime.>
Richard
<Adam_J.>

Anemone Splittings BTA beh., tank "size"    10/6/06
Hi Mr. Fenner & Crew,
<Marilyn>
14 months ago, my RBTA did a split, yielding 1 Clone which is doing  super.  
Well, 12 days ago, the original RBTA did another split and 2 l/2  days later, it split again, yielding twin clones : ) so now I have a beautiful  tank with
the original RBTA and 3 clones!  Problem: the original RBTA is  discharging quite a bit of it's mesenterial filaments.  Is this a bad sign  or is this normal?
<Mmm... can/does happen... but these should be "brought back in" within a short while (a few days)>
I don't recall it doing this on the first split 14 mos.  ago.  My water parameters are as follows:  pH 8.0, dKH 10.75, Alk  3.86, CA 395 - 400, & sg 1.025. Temp. 76.5 - 78.5F
<These all look fine>
Another question - I've been able to find a formula on how to figure the actual gallons of water a tank can hold but have not been able to find information as to how to figure out how many gallons of water is actually in a  tank with 100 lbs. of LR and 30 - 40 lbs of live sand ( 2 inch. sand  bed)
<Mmm, could be calculated given the known density of both of these... they are variable...>
displacement so if I do a 15 gallon water change, what would the  percentage of change be?  Do hope you can help me with a formula of  some sort.
<Well... do you want to weigh a given bit of rock and sand and measure their displacement volume to determine densities? Density equals mass over volume, D= m/V... from here you can/could calculate the volume taken up by both (on the basis of their known mass... weight on this planet... as in V= m/D... and "take out" the volume (at about 231 cubic inches per gallon) of the rock and sand... leaving you with water volume...>
Thank you for your help to my two problems/questions.
Marilyn  
<Welcome. BobF>

Anemone splitting   8/6/06
Hello,
I am hoping you can help me with this question. I have searched all of your information about anemone splitting. I did not find the answer to what I was looking for. My question is, 3 days ago, my Bubble Tip Anemone split. Both of them look great. They are fully inflated and good in color. They both have moved around the tank some, but have been in the same spot for the last 32 hours. I did try finding them some minced shrimp today, but they both did not accept it. Upon farther inspection, I did not see there mouths. Is it possible for this to happen when they split? Does it develop later? My tank is a 55 gallon long and the specs of the water are in the right zones for nitrates, nitrite, ammonia and pH.
Also do you know if the Regent power heads are fully submersible? I could not find this information any where on the packaging nor the directions.
I appreciate any insight that you can give me.
Ellen
<<Ellen:  When my BTA's split, it usually takes a few days before they start accepting food again.  Give it some more time and they should be fine.  I can't tell you anything about the Regent power heads.  Usually, all power heads are submersible.  Can you check with the place you got them from?  Best of luck, Roy>>

BTA/Reproduction   5/28/06
My bubble tip split yesterday and now there is a cloudy discharge coming from one of the two. It has completely clouded my tank in the matter of an hour. What should I do if anything.  The tank has been up for two years, the bubble tip is year and half old, water conditions up till now were very good.
<I'd filter the water through a good grade of carbon/Chemi-Pure or Poly Filter.  In the future do cap all "i's" and beginnings of sentences.  Saves us time if we do not have to do it for you.>
Thanks
<You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>

E. quadricolor Sexual Repro...   5/15/06
Hi - I have been reading the anemone sections and not found the answer to this question.
<Okay.>
The 2 rose anemones are emitting a whitish cloudy substance such that the whole tank is now cloudy.
<Sounds as if they are reproducing sexually; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_anemone, okay in LARGE tanks but not in small ones like yours...can have an adverse effect on tank mates, run some carbon and do some large water changes.>
Yesterday, before I realized it was coming from the anemones, I did a 5 G water change, cleaned the sponges and replaced the charcoal filter. It was clear for about 24 hours until now when I noticed the cloudy stuff coming from the anemones.
<What is your water quality? At times they do this to increase their chances of survivability when death appears to be imminent....too small IMO...water quality can go astray VERY quickly.>
Much thanks, Laurie
24 G NanoCube.
1 high fin Cardinal
1 clown
1 cleaner shrimp
2 soft corals, hermits, snails
<Adam J.>

Re: E. quadricolor Repro  - 05/17/2006
hmmm.
<" "...One of my favorite responses.>
So basically it's birth or death, and you think my tank is too small for healthy anemones.
<Well to small to keep the water quality stable and nutrients low enough....for average aquarists...to be able to keep such sensitive creatures.>
If the anemones are reproducing, would there be that kind of emission i.e. cloudy substance for an hour nonstop (if not longer), two days in a row?
<Possibly yes.>
When would baby anemones appear to confirm that it was reproduction?
<Likely won't in this closed system.>
Alternatively, what do anemones look like if they are dying?
<Deflated, detached, missing tentacles....>
This morning the tank is clear.
<I would do a water change anyway...lots of them.>
Thanks again!
<Adam J.>

Bubble tip Anemone reproduction   3/14/06
Hey guys,
<Lisa>
Just a quick esoteric question.  When a bubble tip anemone splits does it first grow a new stomach/gastric pouch etc and then split, or does the tissue split and then the internal organs develop?
<Good question... some of the mesentery, and its contents do get "pinched off" in these fission events generally... though as you likely know, there are incidence where small bit of the "foot" get left behind and the undifferentiated "daughter" cells can/do become all the other cells...>
I can't seem to find anything on this and am really curious.  I've been doing a science fair experiment on anemone reproduction and have been watching them for three years now, but I can't really get a good look to see what's going on internally.
<Unfortunately this requires the sacrificing, embedding, sectioning and staining of specimens... can be done though. I worked on Anthopleura elegantissima as histological specimens in college and did this.>
  It's not crucial to the parameters of the experiment which focus's more on water quality and nitrates, but I'm just curious and a little frustrated that I can't answer this question.  Also if you know any great books on anemone reproduction I'd love to hear your suggestions.
Thanks,
Madeleine B.
<Mmm, as far as am aware, the pet-fish literature is scant re such. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Green BTA Triple Split  - 03/12/2006
Hi guys!
<Robin>
Two months ago I bought my first anemone, a 6-7 inch diameter Green Bubble Tip Anemone. I've been feeding him/it a thawed Formula One gel cube about once every three days and he has seemed pretty happy. I did the usual 20% bi-monthly water change over the weekend and it was uneventful, but now in the past 24 hours something interesting has happened to him. When I went to do the usual B-Ionic dosing this morning I discovered that overnight my BTA had split in two!
<Happens>
I thought to my self, "Cool!" and went off to work. Gotta pay for this aquatic addiction after all. When I got home from work tonight
I was very surprised to see that I now have THREE anemones!
<Bonus!>
The larger of the two clones had split again. Have you ever heard of a BTA splitting itself into thirds like this?
<Yes... usually under some "stressful" cue...>
Am I correct to assume that my anemone reproducing like this means I'm really starting to get the hang of this reef tank thing?
<Mmm, actually the opposite... this "fission" is most often a "means" or function of dangerous influence reaction... the animal dividing to "hopefully" (teleological but instructive), live by "doubling its chances" in two varying environments. Bob Fenner>
Thanks!
Robin

Re: Green BTA Triple Split  - 03/13/2006
Hi Bob,
<Robin>
Sorry to bother you again. I have a follow-up question regarding my Bubble Tip Anemone splitting in three. You mentioned in your reply to my original e-mail that a BTA splitting is a reaction to stress.
<Most often, yes... particularly multiple fission events>
The fact that I got three anemones from one is very cool, but I don't want my BTAs to be stressed.
<Happens>
My question is, what sort of stressors prompt a split?
<Rapid change in physical, chemical, biological make-up in their environment mostly...>
Could it have been the water change and the resulting slight change in alkalinity, pH or calcium?
<Yes>
Or perhaps it's the fact that the salinity creeps up from 1.025 in the morning to 1.026 in the evening before I get home and can add RO water to compensate for evaporation?
<Could be a contributing cause, yes>
Could another possibility be the daily fluctuation in pH? In the morning before lights on the pH tends to be low, around 7.8 to 8, then by the end of the day it's up to 8.2 to 8.4.
<Again...>
Nitrate, Phosphate, Ammonia etc. all test negative and the tank averages between 80-82F degrees.
The calcium level in the tank stays between 400 and 440 depending on the time of day I measure. The only supplements are 45ml (each) of B-Ionic daily in the morning and 8ml of Seachem potassium iodide every other day.
<I'd cut this back to once weekly... with measurement>
The tank the BTA lives in is 75g Oceanic display (no overflow) with:
*  75lbs of live rock
*  1 inch live sand
*  CPR BakPak Skimmer powered by a MaxiJet 1200 (I plan to get a Turbo Floater Multi when I have the cash)
*  H.O.T Magnum in which I run Black Diamond Carbon
*  A small Penguin power filter with bio-wheel removed that houses only a PolyFilter Pad
*  Current Outer Orbit fight fixture with 2x150W MH Lamps and 2x130W power compact actinics (actinics on from 8am-8pm and MH on from 10am-6pm with lunar LEDs at night)
*  15w Aquanetics UV
*  3 MaxiJet 1200 powerheads each with a Hydor Flo wave maker attached
*  1 MaxiJet 600 powerhead pushing water across the back of the tank In addition to the BTA the tank houses:
*  A medium sized colony of Xenia coral (Xenia umbellata - pumping happily and growing well)
*  1 small Amethyst Porites coral frag (Porites annae) growing with good polyp extension
*  1 small Pink Birdsnest frag (Seriatopora stellata) growing with good polyp extension
*  1 small Leather Finger coral frag (probably Sinularia sp., it was a live rock hitchhiker)
*  A few small colonies of assorted Zoanthus polyps
*  Half a dozen assorted Mushroom corals
*  1 Tuxedo Urchin
*  2 generic sand-sifting cucumbers
*  1 Green Mithrax Crab
*  1 Skunk Cleaner Shrimp
*  2 Blood red Fire Shrimp
*  A few dozen Scarlet, Blue Legged and Dwarf Zebra Hermit Crabs
*  3 Mexican Turbo Snails
*  1 Astrea snail
*  3 Nerite snails
*  2 Ocellaris Clowns
*  1 Royal Gramma
*  1 Hippo Tang
*  1 Six Line Wrasse
*  1 Flame Angel
Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
Robin
<Sounds/reads like a very nice system... Thank you for the follow-up. Bob Fenner>

My Bubble Tip Has A Twin! - 01/06/06
Hi Crew
<<Howdy>>
Not so much a question as a contribution (which might actually lead to a question, come to think of it).
<<No prob>>
About a month ago, I introduced a bubble tip anemone to my 38g tank (20" deep), to provide some lovin' for my maroon clown.  I know neither needs the other, but you know the attraction...
<<Indeed>>
I placed him toward the top of my "rock wall", which put him about 12-14" below 192 watts of PC lighting (half actinic/half 10000k).
<<Mmm, actually a 25% to 75% ratio (respectively) would be more suitable for the anemone.>>
I guess he liked it there, because he stayed, where I fed him a bit of minced shrimp every day or two.
<<Ah good, best to feed very small pieces of food.>>
He seemed to be growing (or at least spreading out), and the
clown adopted him within a day or so of his introduction.  At any rate, almost two weeks ago, I upsized my tank to a 70g (24"deep).  I went with this particular tank so that I could keep my lighting hood (not cheap!), with the reasoning that if 12" below the light worked in the 38g, there was no reason it shouldn't in the 70g, if I provided more rock to raise him up.
<<Agreed>>
The move of all the livestock (five fish, snails, crabs, a
blood shrimp, a couple of mushrooms and my buddy the anemone) went without any losses (although not without some stress on my part). I put the BTA in about the same spot he had been in before (although 4" higher from the bottom), and he stayed put.  Well, to my amazement, two days after the move, he split!
<<Likely induced by the stress of the move/slight change in water chemistry.>>
Both parties seem to be doing well a week and a half later, although the original party climbed behind a rock for a few days after rubbing shoulders with his sibling (clone?) for a couple days.  He now has re-emerged and seems as healthy as ever.  He is now located about 8 inches away from the other.  I'm told that they sometimes need a bit of time to heal after a split (don't we
all?).
<<Ha!>>
I guess my question is, can I expect this to re-occur,
<<Many folks report instances of their BTA's splitting/reproducing multiple times.>>
and what's the best
way to get one of the two out of there and back to the LFS?
<<Best to remove/transport the anemone WITH the rock to which it is attached.  You can try gently coaxing it off with a thumbnail if you wish, but be aware that any damage to the anemone will likely result in death.>>
I really don't want two anemones, although my clown seems to have taken an equal fondness to both of them.
Regards and thanks
Phil
<<Thanks for sharing...EricR>>

E. quadricolor Reproduction. 11/30/2005
Hello crew.
<Hello.>
I have a Green Bubble Tip Anemone and I am wondering on procedures to get one to split.
<Intense light and feedings of meat high in protein from a marine origin such as Mysis or squid. Nutritional supplements like Selcon or Zoe.>
I know there is high lighting and feeding it daily and then the stress but can you elaborate on this any?
<I have heard of this method and must admit I’m not a fan of recommending it. Simply because most folks who purchase an anemone to begin with lack the proper environment for it and stressing it out leads to an even quicker demise. Stressing the animal out so that it reproduces plays on an instinct of the animals, it reproduces because it thinks it is dying, it splits in order to increase the chances that there will be later generations. I have seen this done accidentally a few times by hobbyist mishaps and more commonly when transporting the anemone from one tank to another. Quite common for E. Quadricolor to splitting the first week or two after a move. 
However yours seems to be thriving and at this point I would just continue providing the good care you have thus far. These animals rarely survive in captivity to begin with and I would hate to have you try something only to end up with one dead anemone rather than one. I would take pride that you have been able to keep this animal alive much longer than the average person.>
I have PC lighting with 4x65 bulbs so that gives you a little on what type of lighting its under.
<Hard to comment on the lighting without the dimensions of the tank but for best results replace the bulbs every 6 to 9 months.>
I don't have "High" lighting but my anemone has done very well for the last 6 or 7 months. Any help is appreciated thanks.
<Adam J.> 

E. quadricolor Reproduction II  12/1/2005
Thanks a lot for the info.
<Quite Welcome.>
I feed my anemone a mix of foods (referred to most as mush). It has shrimp, squid (body and tentacles), scallop, silverside, Nori and some flakes. Also sometimes I soak it in garlic (not for the anemone but the fish).
<Sounds good.>
If my anemone does not split I agree with you instead of likely killing it I may just get another of a different color. 
<Well if you must get another be sure it is also a E. quadricolor.>
Thanks a lot for your info.
<Welcome, Adam J.> 

BTA split - 11/26/2005
I had a softball sized BTA that split two days ago. When it did so it was stretched across the tank. The part that was stretched eventually separated from the two larger animals. Now I have two medium sized anemones and a smaller one (consisting of 7-8 tentacles). The smaller one is the only mobile one at this point. Will it survive? Have you ever heard of an anemone splitting into 3 parts?
<I have seen this before, and yes I believe all parts will survive. Keep a close eye on them
and feed them as well. good luck, IanB>

Rose Bubble Tip Anemone Problems  9/27/05
Hi Mr. Calfo, <James today>
I've had this RBTA now for 2 1/2 years and it recently split : )  which we're all happy about.  However, since the split, it hasn't looked the same. <Probably won't>
       1)  It's tentacles have become twisted/curled, mangled looking (so painful to look at) and can't figure out why it's like this.<This happens after a split>  SG 1.025, pH 8.2, dKH 11, Alk. 3.8, CA 390, NO 3 (10), NO 2 (0), NH 3 (0) and water temp between 76.5 - 78.5 F.  We do a 15 gal water change weekly on a 55 gal tank. <Good>
       2)  In addition to the twisted tentacles, it seems to be excreting a fine grayish/white dust/powder instead of the usual dark brown poop and it is
all over the oral disc area.  Can't figure out why/what is going on.  
I think the anemone is OK because it's eating 2 - 1/4" pieces of shrimp daily and I can see small new tentacles growing from where the split did not
completely join  (approx 1 1/2") at the oral disc. <Anemones need not be fed daily.  What goes in the mouth comes out the mouth.  They need time to digest a meal before another meal can be offerred.  A once weekly feeding is fine as these animals do produce most of their own food under correct lighting conditions.>
Surprisingly, the "Clone" is doing just fine, eating well, growing and situated on the same LR next to the original.  Can you tell me what's going on with
my RBTA? <Have a little patience and don't kill it with kindness.  They are adjusting from the split and all should be well in time.  James (Salty Dog)>
Thank you and looking forward to your reply.
Lin

Rose BTA removal 08/23/05
Hello to all,
<Hi Kevin>
I recently had a Rose BTA split and I am looking to remove the second BTA and sell it to my LFS. Currently it is residing on the underside of a rock. I cant take the rock out b/c the original BTA is on the same rock. What would be the least damaging way to coax this BTA off this rock. I have read using a powerhead, or depriving it of light can induce movement. Also i have read that massaging the base can sometimes cause it to detach. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks for all the information. Nice work.
Kevin
<All three of these can work... but I would just wait at this point... let the animal/s rest, regain size... and sell one if you'd like in a few weeks, months... Bob Fenner>

RTBA Baby boom 7/18/05
Hi. I have a quick anemone question for you. Specifically, about the RTBA -- E. quadricolor or something, I think.
<This is it>
Anyways, I have a 135G full of them. I started with just one, then one afternoon he disappeared into the rock work. When he emerged a few days later, he had a little buddy. Fast-forward a year or so and now I have like ten of them! As long as they stay put I can just move things out of their way, but every time a new one pops up they all reposition.
<Well-stated... and am sure you can think of "reasons" for this>
For like a week they roam around stinging pretty much everything in the tank before settling down again. I know (now) that you're supposed to make a separate rock pile for them, but I didn't with this tank and its too late now. Its very old and very stable and I don't want to upset everything by moving all the rocks around.
<Mmm, sell, give away some of them>
Anyways, so I was wondering what else I can do...I have other tanks into which they could go, but they burry their foot so deep within the rockwork that I could never get them out without severely hurting them IF they didn't want to go (and I don't want to remove the rock).
<Why not?>
So, is there anyway to make them choose to let go?
<Move the rock to another system where the individual may choose to let go>
I've seen other anemones in other tanks perform this maneuver when they are (presumably) unhappy. I don't want to muddy up my water, but perhaps there's something you can squirt a small amount of in their face? I once saw an anemone on the discovery channel let go of its rock in order to escape, with the current, from an approaching predatory crab -- the crab didn't even have to touch it, the anemone just knew it was about to be lunch, and split! Anyways, so does anyone know any tricks to make an RTBA think its in danger?
<Not a good idea>
I'm not against poking them a little, just as long as it doesn't do them serious damage. Although every time I've tried poking them with my finger to get them away from sensitive corals, they just shrink back into whatever hole their foot is anchored in and wait for me to leave. So yeah, any thoughts? Thanks. -Dekon
<Sell some... with their rock attached, replace the rock. Bob Fenner>

Fragging Red BTA
Let me start off by saying that your site is awesome and very informative. I bought a red BTA and had it my 75 gal. reef tank for about 2 months without it moving. Recently it moved and attached itself right next to and partly on my Hammer coral. I noticed the Hammer stinging it from time to time so I tried to remove it and ended up tearing it from the base upward to about 1/2 inch from completely tearing it in half. I thought I killed it for sure. The next day it was fully open and now had two "feet". I left it for two weeks and then it moved again towards the Hammer again. This time I finished ripping it all the way and within one hour I now had two red BTA's, both open and seeming to do fine, and each going there own way. I now notice both have a mouth. Is this normal?
<Yes, happens>
Can anemones be fragged? Do you think they will be OK?
<Likely so>
Also, It doesn't seem that the red BTA's sting the other corals ( polyps, mushrooms, hammer, Favia, etc.). Are the red BTA's a big danger to the other corals? 
<Sigh... yes...>
Thanks for the input,
CMC
<This is posted over and over... on WWM. Bob Fenner> 

BTA Clone feeding
Three weeks ago my BTA cloned. The large anemone is doing fine and eats anything I feed it. The large one is now bigger than ever. It's probably close to 10 inches across when inflated. The clone will not eat anything. If I try and feed it it pulls its tentacles away and deflates. It seems to be doing all right though. It is staying on the same rock, and just moving around a little. It seems to spend a lot of its time inflating and deflating. You can sit and watch it fully inflate, and two or three minutes later it will be completely deflated. I have never dealt with an anemone clone before and I am not sure what to expect.  Is there anything I can do to encourage it to feed, or will it just feed when its ready? Thank you.
<Just continue to offer foods as per the other one... a couple of times a week, don't be too concerned if the clone "moves away" to another part of the system. Bob Fenner>

Artificial Bubble Tip Anemone Propagation
Hey guys,
<Hello John>
I've got a question for you regarding bubble tip anemone propagation. I read most or all of the FAQ's on your site about cutting the anemones to
divide them. Cutting one completely in half sounds kind of harsh, and also seems risky. I was wondering if any one has tried making a small
cut on the edge of the oral disk with any success. I read about making an incision down the side of the anemone, from the oral disk to where
the pedal disk begins, but the description was rather vague to me.
Should the cut be deep, or only superficial?
<Deep>
What do you think would happen if you made a small cut on the edge of the oral disk with some scissors or meat shears?
<Better to use a razor blade or such... much cleaner cuts>
To give some background info, I tried the feeding every three days for two weeks before a water change thing and it worked fine. I ended up with six anemones from one. I'm down to two now, one ended up in the sump after wandering in the aquarium for a while, and I gave the others away before a move. I want to try to get them to split again, but the heavy feeding contributes to hair algae, which I have had problems with in the past, but not since I moved. I cleaned it from the live rock with a toothbrush while I had it out of the tank, and none has popped up so far (3 months since the move).
Anyways, I would appreciate more detailed info about artificially propagating them. Any help will be gladly received.
Thanks,
John Jordan
<Not much more to say... there is substantial anecdotal input from folks on BB's (ReefCentral, Reefs.org...) re how often, at what size... Bob Fenner>

Divided BT Anemone 3/26/04
My BT divided 48 hours ago and the clone does not look well at all. It has moved between two rocks and is very deflated and sorry looking. It barely moves its tentacles. The original BT looks great and appears as nothing happened. The owner of the fish store I bought the BT said that it is exhausted like giving birth. I have a hard time believing that. What can I do to help this clone or is it a goner and is slowly going.  Stacy Frakes
<Stacy, I would give it a couple of days to recover.  Your LFS explanation is bogus.  They are parts of the same animal, why would one be "exhausted", and the other not?  I think the more likely explanation is that it is putting energy into moving away.  Your anemone should be fine.  Do watch that it can't wander into anything that it will be injured by or that can injure it.  Best Regards.  Adam>

Fun With Anemones!
Just thought I'd add to the list of anecdotal stories about Bubble-tip anemone splitting. Given that we are in the summer months, the temperature in the tank has been slightly higher than normal (82, rather than the normal 80). All other factors, lighting, feeding, pH, Na etc etc had all been constant for some time. Well, yesterday we had an unusually warm day and I'd not turned on the sump fan. The result was a balmy 88 degree tank temperature. Nothing looked *too* bad. The frogspawn was deflated and one of the heads was releasing a tad bit of brown mucus (what is that? zooxanthellae?)
<Quite possibly...Coral have been known to expel zooxanthellae under stress conditions...Or, it could simply be waste product!>
and the anemone was deflated. Well, the next morning I notice the BTA has moved slightly and is in an odd position. By the time I come home, I have two very healthy looking inflated BTAs. They seem very protective of the portion of the oral disk where they split. They constantly had it covered so it was nearly impossible to get a good luck. Of course, I'd do the same if I had an open wound from a recent split. Doesn't it seem as if this would be a slightly easier (and less risky) way of inducing a split in BTAs, rather than the whole "pollute the water and do a water change" regime? Just spike the temp for half a day. Of course, it would be best to hyper-oxygenate the water, just in case. Anyhow, just wanted to get the info out there.
<Really interesting stuff! I guess it's a real trade-off between different forms of stress...Heat or pollution! With your attention to increasing oxygenation, I suppose that it is safer to go with the heat...On the other hand, high temperatures can really stress out other animals, too. All interesting experiments, though. Thanks for sharing! Regards, Scott F>
Stratos Kotzabassi 

Bubble tip anemone BTA 5/28/03
I have recently bought a large BTA and I just wanted to know how long it would take for him to split.
<beyond water quality, it often depends on how well (and what) you are feeding it>
I have talked to many aquarists and they have told me that I have sufficient enough lighting and plenty of space in a well established aquarium with corals and several Ocellaris clownfish.
<I am certain that keeping anemones with coral is a bad long-term arrangement. It's unnatural for most and an unnecessary risk between motile and sessile cnidarians. And for optimal success (reproduction) you will fare much better with the anemone in a proper species-specific tank>
My BTA is currently around 2 inches from the surface and I am feeding it on a regular basis. He seems to be in perfect condition although sometimes he will totally deflate and you can practically see through him.
<ahhh... riiiiiight. Regular feedings of an unspecified frequency, and perfect water quality of undefined parameters definitely makes me want to chime up in agreement. Especially after hearing that "shrivelly, transparent" phase it like to got through. Heehee... ahhh, hope you are rested and receptive to sarcasm on reading this reply <G>. The anemone is likely all fine, my friend. But I really have little to offer you here with no information to go on. No tank mates, no age of specimen... no size ("large" relative to what?)... no tank size, types of food fed, etc>
Thanks for all the great FAQs and messages provided that have really helped along the way. Best regards, Alex Harris
<our pleasure, Alex. Let me suggest you delve deeper into the FAQs and articles, my friend. We have quite a lot of articles on BTAs. I have answered FAQs about artificially propagating them... we have an article posted describing husbandry and how to induce natural fission... an so much more. Good reading ahead of you bub. Kindly, Anthony>

BTA? Induced Schizogyny
Bob, Thanks for the great presentation Thursday night in Phoenix. I had a couple Q's regarding BTA's reproducing. My two have spilt 4 times over the last 1 1/2,one just the other day. You mentioned that you knew of a way that they "repro" quicker? I would like to learn more about this. If I can prevent a couple BTA's being collected every year, I'd feel better.
<Can be induced... often incidental with an "accident" that results in "poor water quality". In purposeful propagation (asexual) by cutting the animal... in the case of actinarians, across the body wall (but not pedicle) in line with the mouth slit>
Let me give you some stats on my set up: It's an 80g tank with an 55g rear tank (fed my bulkheads). The return pumps are 692gph going into a pair of SCWD's (wave makers). The tank has been skimmerless for two years that's when the BTA's started splitting). I have 6" DSB and about 200# of very alive live rock (lots of sponges and such). Lighting is combo of PC and VHO (totally 600watts over the 80g).I overfeed the tank everyday and try to manually feed each BTA twice a week. they are pigs!. I have three species of clowns (only two of which host in the BTA's, the other Saddleback hosts in a rock anemone), two A Clarkiis and two Tomatoes (A frenatus?)(sorry not up on the real names). I'm hoping to get an Rose BTA, in hopes of reproducing them too. I will be setting up another 80g tank for that. Any info that you could provide would be appreciated. Do you know of another way to detach them off the live rock?
<Best to slip a nail or dull plastic card (like an old credit card) under a part of the foot that appears to be on a flat/ter piece of rock and slowly (over minutes) nick away at that spot>
I've tried the ice cube in a Ziploc trick and placing an powerhead directly at the BTA (the BTA after a day just loved the extra current!!) to no avail. Thanks again. Michael
<Be chatting, Bob Fenner>

Bubble Tip Anemone BTA propagation 6/11/03
Good Afternoon WWM Crew-
<cheers, my friend>
My name is Tammy and I just turned 16 this year. My dad has a reef aquarium 180 gallons for 6 years and I help he with it all of the time.
<very good to hear... a rewarding and educational hobby indeed! Perhaps it could lead you to a future vocation>
I feed the fish and the coral 4 days a week. My dad does it on the other days. He has a rose anemone that split two month ago. My dad wants to sell it because he thinks two in a tank is a bad thing.
<as clones of the same colony... they are not likely to fight. I do not see two being any riskier than one. I personally do not care for them in a reef tank. Mixing motile cnidarians with sessile ones is a recipe for disaster in the long run. I favor species tanks for most all anemones>
I talked to him and he said that I can have it if it will be able to do well in a small tank.
<I do believe that will work fine or better than your dads fending itself against stinging corals in the mixed tank!>
We have a 20 gallon long tank that I would like to setup for the anemone only.
<by a window with natural sunlight (east or south is best)
I know that they can grow very big and sometimes never split. I don't want to be mean and keep it in a tank that is not right for it. The reason I wanted to mail you all was to ask if there is a way to keep them in a small tank and once they get big you can propagate it like a mushroom.
<yes... all true. If you care to e-mail me next week with a reminder, I will build a slideshow of images and give you the link... our friend Daniel Knop illustrated this in a German magazine article called Koralle>
My dad said he read that Mr. Calfo was working on something like that.
<yes... really quite simple too... they are just cut in half with a clean scalpel or razor blade. Returned to same general position/location in the tank to heal. You can sell off the healed split clones in time>
My dad will help me keep this anemone in this tank and he has a lot of experience fragging corals. He said I should ask you all if this is a smart idea or not.
<its a great idea in my opinion. I do believe you can enjoy an anemone this way just fine>
I hope it will be ok but I will tell my dad to sell the anemone if it is not a good idea. My dad said that if you wanted to talk to him about fragging the anemone when it gets to big that he will email you.
<please feel welcome to do so... and do remind me again for the slideshow next week for you of the BTA cutting>
Thank you very much and we love your website, Tammy
<our great pleasure, best regards Anthony>

BTA split, now is one stuck? 8/1/03
Hi there,
<howdy, partner>
My BTA recently split into three (split into 2 overnight then over the course of a week, one of them split again). It was about 4-5" wide when fully open before the split and now the anemones are about 1-2" wide.
<outstanding... please do take and share pics of it>
My problem now is I think one of the anemones is stuck inside my decorative coral rock. I'm not sure exactly what it's called, but the coral rock is kinda shell-like and hollow and has large holes. The anemone has its foot completely inside one of the holes and hasn't moved since the split.
<no worries... give it time... and feed it duly in the meantime. Have patience>
Overall, the anemone seems to be doing well, and I know that a happy anemone stays put. Can an anemone ever get stuck in a hole like this, not be able to get out, and be in distress?
<no>
It always displays bubbles (as opposed to the other two which never do) and has been eating fairly well. I'm just a little concerned b/c the hole opening is not that big and could be constricting if the anemone grows much more. Any advice?
<no worries my friend... and it can be coaxed out with manipulation of light (half shading) if necessary>
Thanks!  ---Stella
<best regards, Anthony>

Unequal BTA split 1/8/04
WWM : Hi, I had a single E. quadricolor Bubble Tip Anemone that split. The clones are doing fine, but it's been about three months now and only one seems to have taken its symbiotic algae with it, as evidenced by its brownish color. The other one is pure white, and has been since the split. What could cause this and should I worry or do something to help the albino twin? thanks, SLC
<I'm not sure of the cause of a lack of zooxanthellae here (some stress), but can assure you that it will only survive and regiment if you feed it several times weekly or better with very fine (minced) meaty ocean meats and foods. Best of luck, Anthony>

Unequal BTA split II 1/11/04
Thanks Mr. Calfo,
<always welcome my friend>
Are brine shrimp and salmon soaked in Selcon and Zo? in 1/4" chunks, 3-4X a week OK?
<Selcon is an excellent food supplement for most marine animals (corals, fishes, inverts)... Zo?I do not personally care for but a little bit of vitamins (like Vita-Chem) to go with the HUFA supplement (Selcon) is a good idea IMO. You portion size and frequency are fine... but you need to offer more kinds and more nutritious items. Salmon is excellent... but brine shrimp is nearly useless here (nutritively hollow... really only good for stimulating picky fishes to feed. A temp food). Add Mysis shrimp, Pacifica plankton, chopped krill or raw food shrimp, fish roe (grouper eggs from the pet store freezer or Tobago/flying fish roe from the Asian market (sushi)>
That's what I've upped the schedule to in the last week.  Thanks for the advice, SLC 
The Enemy of my Anemone is my Enemy
<yes... and the rain in Spain falls gently on the plain. "I think I've got it... I think I've got it". Anthony :) >

BTA science fair project
Mr. Fenner,
<Ms. Maddie>
I started a science fair experiment this year with bubble tip anemone's.  We have a 72 Gallon reef set up that has been really stable for over a year.  Our bubble tip anemone split in two about six month ago and then three months ago one of the anemone's split again.
<Neat>
My project involved the effect of food on the anemone's.  I target fed one of the anemones (Subject A) with Krill every day, the second anemone (Subject B) I target fed every third day and the third anemone (Subject C) I target fed every 2 weeks. After 4 weeks the first anemone split.  That was two days ago.  Today I came home and realized that one of the newly split anemones (Subject A-1) was pushed up against my crown leather coral.  I didn't want it to get stung so I went to move it and realized that the anemone was in the middle of splitting again with one piece of it attaching to my coral and the other part attaching to the rock.  I quickly moved the coral back into place so the anemone would be more whole while it finishes this process.  Have I hurt the anemone?  What about my coral?  
<Hopefully both are fine... anemones do split more often due to "stress" of various sorts... perhaps the proximity of the leather coral hastened the onset of the process (Schizogyny) here>
Also the other half of the anemone (Subject A-2) has crawled up under a rock and is really small - sort of like the night before it split the last time.  This has been a really cool experiment and I'm glad it worked but now I'm afraid I hurt Subject A-1. Also my single maroon clown fish has always taken care of the three anemone's but I'm afraid he's outnumbered.  I guess I will have to move the anemone's into my Dad's 200 gallon reef tank.  How long should I wait before I make the move to make sure the anemone's are stable?
<I would wait several weeks here. Being genetic clones of the "mother" colony, these anemones should get along together semi-indefinitely>
Thanks,
Maddie Ball
P.S.  This is for my 5th grade science fair project at St. John's Episcopal School in Dallas.  May I use your response as part of my report?  Thanks.
<You are welcome to cite anything I have written. Bob Fenner>

Splitting bubble tip anemone
Hello, and if this is Anthony, thanks for speaking in Cleveland, you gave us lots of valuable information.
<thank you my friend!>
Anyhow, I have a bubble tip anemone I want to split.  It went from 1" disk to a 12" disk in 8 months.  
<outstanding>
I started feeding it 4 months ago, and only fed it for 3 weeks, and that is when most of the growth took place.  
<indeed... this is a common realization with corals and anemones. Most are literally starved in captivity>
I stopped feeding it when it got too big.  I realized it continued to grow after I stopped feeding, it just grew slower, so I started feeding it again - no sense delaying the inevitable.
<very wise>
From my understanding, there are 2 types of BTA,
<some say three>
colonial and solitary.  The colonial ones split, the solitary ones don't.  
<I would essentially agree>
But it has to eventually split or stop getting bigger - right?  
<at some point yes>
Is there any definite way to tell the 2 types apart?  
<you almost certainly have the colonial one. The solitary variety is not encountered much in the trade as of late>
Is there a limit to how big these guys can get?  
<yep... but that limit is still way too big for most aquariums>
Can anything be done to propagate a solitary bubble tip?  
<BTAs do respond favorably to cutting/fissionary splits imposed on them>
I have only recently found reports of 12" BTAs online - I thought they only got about half that big.
<good heavens, no... even larger in the wild>
I have heard people talk about "encouraging" these to split.
<yep... after Cleveland I showed Michigan a series of slides on how to do this (This was their second presentation from me this year... had to give them something different <G>)>
Most of this discussion (cutting directly in half, constricting with fishing line, wounding, etc) sounds like really bad ideas.
<actually quite as simple as it sounds and relatively safe with a healthy established animal>
You mentioned a German article about cutting anemones, and I wondered if this meant cutting it in half, or just cutting off a small piece.  
<from Daniel Knop... and yes, literally cutting it clean in half with a scalpel>
Has the article made its way onto WetWebMedia yet (I can't find it)?  
<nope... we just got it... in German (!)... from Koralle magazine. No formal permission to reprint yet>
Would cutting off a tentacle, or small section of disk, do any real damage to a large, healthy anemone?
<little damage or help here>
Is there any truth to a large water change helping these split?
<it clearly is not the primary catalyst... such an event it not defined in the wild. I suspect that it is the vehicle used for stressing or manipulating water chemistry to induce the animal. I'm sure it can be replicated another way. For now, its a great idea>
If so, any ideas on why it works?
<as above>
>I would love to try propagating it, with proper feeding and care, I think these could grow as fast as Xenia.
<agreed my friend. But do not attempt this in a full reef display. A cut and stressed anemone forced to deal with the concentrated toxins of corals and other cnidarians in the water just is not sensible. Cut your anemone once it is established in a proper isolation tank of its own.>
Brad Bellomo
<best regards, Anthony>

Bubble Tip anemone splitting: articles and link to slide show
(Entacmaea quadricolor- BTA)
<welcome, my friend!>
yes hello my English is not so good but I would like to ask a question please.  
<no worries... it is good to hear from you>
I'm at a friends house and he will help me a little bit with my English grammar so hopefully this will be correct for you to read.  he doesn't speak my language too well and I'm not speaking English too well so should be enjoy to read!  
<actually, you communicate in English very fine>
he has asked this for me elsewhere but no one knows and says you are the experts and best of best to ask any kind of question.
I have 1 Entacmaea quadricolor.  It is violet kind of color a little bit of rust color and some green too.  it is not too big maybe 13cm oral disc sometimes.  it picked a rock to sit on with vertical side so that oral disc is perpendicular to bottom of tank.  one side of disc seems to stretched some.  the part closest to the sand is stretched out some.  the other side is kind of shrink some.  the disc now is lopsided with the tentacles on shrunken side short and getting longer as you go around to the stretched side and mouth now look not in the middle.  it eat shrimps and clam well I feed once or twice a week.  it almost always extended.  it stays in tank with some current I have plenty of lighting for it too.  he looks healthy just do not know about the stretched part and shrunken part.  also it likes to extend very long its body part like a tree looking.  
<it sounds like it may be going through reproduction... a fissionary split. Do read these articles:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/cnidaria/anthozoa/bubbletipanemones.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/cnidaria/anthozoa/bubbletipanemones.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/index.htm
and check out this slide show on a BTA split:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-11/reefslides/index.htm
best regards, Anthony>

Anemone- thanks!
Ok my Entacmaea quadricolor did not split but it is better now.  thank you for advice on it!  
<our great pleasure, my friend>
also it is color is much darker now and it eats a lot.  
<excellent... regular feeding with very finely minced foods is so important>
I might get a percula for it who knows!  
<if you like... but know that the anemone will fare as well or better without the clownfish. More than half in the wild, some say, don't even host clownfish>
the websites you have given me were very good!
I also have a clam but not sure what kind.  it brown and cream coloring.  
<have you read the sample chapter we have posted from our new upcoming book here (link to sample is in center of the page):
http://wetwebfotos.com/store/nma-ri.html
I have read a book by Mr. Daniel Knop and it isn't answering a question I have.  when placing my clam in tank should a part touching the bottom of
tank where the sand exists be a byssal part or a hinge part?
The byssal opening should be resting squarely on a flat rock that can be buried in the sand... this protects this port (opening) from invasion through the sand by worms, crabs, snails or other predators. Never simply place a clam on the sand bottom without at least a small flat rock underneath. Best regards, Anthony>

BTA anemone splitting - 2/13/03
Howdy Guys,
<cheers, bub>
I don't know if you remember, but I e-mailed you a week or two about my bubble anemone dividing. It seems that about the time the two separated almost completely, one of the daughters started dividing again.
<excellent!>
I read the bubble anemone section on your site, as well as most of the FAQ's in that section. I have been feeding them every three days, like mentioned in the article, but have made no water change to trigger division.
<there are many possible reasons as catalysts>
My ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are all zero. The only change I made was adding one hour to the metal halide's on time. I used to run it 3 hrs, now 4 because in my previous tank I only had fluorescents. Could this have triggered the split?
<doesn't seem likely, a simple tear or simply the "right time">
Also, do know where I could find some "Pocillopora damicornis", aka "Bird nest Coral" or "Lace Coral"? I would of course buy some, but would like to trade an anemone for a cutting.
<do seek a local or regional aquarium society to you. A great venue for fellowship and trades. We have a list of aquarium societies in our links section, and many message boards have links contacts or forums (like reefcentral.com)>
Thanks, John Jordan
Oh Yeah, in one of the FAQ's someone said you didn't have many photos of a bubble anemone dividing. I've got some if you are interested.
<I am very interested in some new pictures, my friend. Please e-mail me at readingtrees@yahoo.com  I'd like to use some for a new article. Best regards, Anthony>

Bubble tip anemone split
Hello again.
My bubble tip anemone split today. When I went to work it was not extended very much. When I came home half of the anemone was crawling one way and the other a different direction. 
<Congrats, this happens... for "good" and/or "bad" "reasons"... Schizogyny... a form of asexual reproduction.>
I saw it put 2 more inches between its 2 halves in an hour of observations. I assume this is a good sign? I have had the anemone for 15 months now. It has always been the hardest thing for me to judge growth wise. It expands variably each day and hasn't moved in 14 months.
<Sounds good>
I am pretty sure it is growing but it is hard to tell. 
<Well stated>
Is the division a positive sign for the animals over all health? I hope so because it sure has confused my Tomato clownfish.
<How would you feel to find your house moving, now two?>
The division process itself was fascinating. It looks like it just popped in half. Each half has good tentacle extension for night and is moving from the original anchor point.
Thanks, Everett.
<Thanks for the report... Now if only I can teach my money to do this... 
Bob Fenner>

Re: Bubble tip anemone split.
What bad conditions could make an anemone split? 
<Poor water quality, predation, overall "stress" factors...>
They are 6 inches apart this morning and have both stayed on their big rock. Hope they don't get wanderlust I was kind of liking it not moving anymore.
Thanks for the advice,
Everett
<Me too, not the splitting, but the hoping. Bob Fenner, who wouldn't, doesn't worry>