Looking for a suitable host! Clowns
Hey Crew,
Thanks to all of your help both directly and through other postings on your web site, my tank is looking better than it ever has! I've had saltwater aquariums for about 6-7 years now and over the course, I've had several types of clownfish. Unfortunately, I've never been able to get a pair that had any interest in an anemone. I just bought a pair of tank-raised, juvenile, mis-barred Perculas and would like any suggestions as to what anemone would be the most likely candidate and if there are any tricks to teach them to host in it. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks,
Will
<Posted... but a bunch to read through. I'd try a tank-cloned Entacmaea... and add, at least temporarily, a third "whipping boy" Amphiprionine/clown... not necessarily the same species. This will 'drive' the current clowns... Bob Fenner>

Raggedy Clownies... stung introductions
Hey there!
<Hi Tina>
First off, thanks for providing this immense resource. I have learned so much from your site...I am a newbie to the saltwater hobby and couldn't have started without you!
<Welcome>
I have a 90 gallon reef tank that is about 2 1/2 months old. I run a DandD skimmer in the sump.
<Hee... I read this at first as a "Dandy" product...>
I use filter fiber to help pull particles out of the stream but don't use charcoal. There are about 90 pounds of live rock in the tank. Tank parameters are great: SPG 1.0024,
<One decimal place off...>
ammonia 0, nitrates and nitrites are 0, temperature 78. I have two false percula clownfish (juveniles) and 1 yellow Coris wrasse so far. I feed the fish pellets, Mysis shrimp, and brine shrimp.
<Mmm, not too much of this last...>
I also have a T. crocea, a sea urchin, emerald crab, many hermits and snails, 2 peppermint shrimp and a coral banded cleaner shrimp. Corals include xenia, elegance, candy cane, and very small frog spawn frag. So that's the inventory so far. The xenia is pulsing like mad, so I don't think water quality is an issue. My problem is that the clownfish have back fins that are looking ragged, and are slowly getting worse. They seem to be eroding away! I noticed this morning the pectoral fins are starting to look bad too. I don't think this is clownfish disease or another parasite, by all accounts these diseases move quickly and would have killed them by now.
<Yes>
I should note that they were in a quarantine tank for 3 weeks before I added them to the main tank, and I noticed a slight raggedness to the fins even then. I suspect a bacterial infection but I don't know how to treat it. Any suggestions? Your help is greatly appreciated, I don't want to lose the little cuties.
Tina Henry in Connecticut
<I fully suspect that your Clownfishes have been trying to establish relations with one of the Euphylliids... the Frogspawn or Elegance... with not much "stinging" success... Either the cooperating parties (the Euphyllia hopefully) will "partner up" and your clowns will heal... or they may be consumed or too damaged by coming in contact with the Catalaphyllia... I would somehow screen this last (maybe with a plastic "berry box" inverted over it... to keep the Clowns away... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/clnfshanmfaq5.htm
and the linked files above... and maybe re the olde family name Caryophylliidae re Compatibility... or the search tool (linked on the left shared border on the root and all subwebs re "Ask the Crew A Question" re "Clowns, Hosts, Disease" and read the cached views. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Clownfish Behavior 10/30/07
Hi all,
I had two quick questions regarding two 2" Perculas in my 65gal.
1. They both are trying to host a Mushroom (its about 4" across), and since they began that a few days ago, it hasn't properly opened. Any suggestions on this, are there any other corals that serve clowns better that I could get?
2. Also, they both have taken to hanging around a flat bottomed cave in my LR, and lay on it day and night for the most part, but still come out to eat and swim around occasionally, and to bug the mushroom. I haven't seen any eggs in there, is behavior normal?
Thanks,
Dan
<<Dan: The Perculas are irritating the mushroom. That said, mushrooms are hardy and there is probably no long term impact. Perculas will also host in a Frogspawn, and Hammer Coral (members of the genus Euphyllia). Because your clowns are the same size, it seems doubtful that they are breeding. Females are usually larger than the males. They might like the cave because it reminds them of the protection they would get from an anemone. Many clowns that don't host tend to swim at the top of the tank and sleep next to powerheads. I think its more natural that yours are hanging out around the cave. Best of luck, Roy>>

Clownfish And Atlantic Flower Anemones? – 10/10/07
Hi-
<<Hello>>
I've had a species tank set up for a little while now with live rock, sand, macroalgae, and mangroves.
<<Neat!>>
A week or so ago I added 3 Florida rock flower anemones (each around 3-3.5").
<<Hmm, likely Epicystis crucifer...some I’ve seen are quite striking>>
A few days ago I got caught up in the purchase of a true percula clownfish that I fell in love with over the weekend.
<<Mmm, you do realize there are no Clownfish indigenous to the Atlantic Ocean?
He seems happy in the tank- however, I'm wondering now if it's a bad idea to keep him in this tank with these anemones. He is about 1-1.5" and very healthy and active, but I don't want him to get stung and eaten if he decides to play house with my hungry hungry hippos... er, anemones.
<<Ha!>>
Do I have reason for worry, or should he be okay?
<<Mmm, hard to say. It is probably no riskier than placing Clownfishes with Atlantic Condylactis Anemones...I have heard of the two taking up with each other just fine...I have also heard tales of the Condy eating the Clownfish...but what the percentages of one versus the other are I have no idea. Soooo...I guess what I’m saying is, it’s a bit of a crapshoot and the decision to play is up to you>>
Thanks,
V
<<Wish I could give a more definitive answer. Regards, EricR>>

Yellow polyps + Percula clown? – 07/18/07
Hi there!
I have a 30g reef. 2 Percula clowns, one skunk cleaner, one small colony of yellow polyps, and one small colony of green star polyps. Recently the smaller of the two perculas has taken residence in the yellow polyps.
<Happens>
He has developed three black spots, and one of his eyes is a little bit darker then the other. The bigger clown is perfectly fine. Can the polyps be effecting him?
<Possibly, yes... and can/could mal-affect the water quality period... Effect all more indirectly>
Parameters =
Ammonia=0
'trites=0
'trates=0-5
temp=78
salinity=1.025
phos=0
calcium=425-450
<Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/polypcompfaqs.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Coral Host for Clown   7/17/07
Hi WWM,
<Hi Mike, Mich here.>
I am looking to add a second fish to my system, since I added my firefish a couple months ago. My tank is 36 gallons with a 5.5 gallon refugium underneath my tank, and with 45 pounds of live rock. I was considering adding a Percula Clown, either orange or black. My tank is not very suited for an? anemone, the lighting is T5HO and the tank is 7 months old.
<I would highly recommend avoiding an anemone. Your system is much too small and these animals can be real problems in my opinion. These lovely creatures really do best in a species tank with an aquarist dedicated to their care.>
I have a trumpet coral, and some mushrooms (frilly and hairy). What type of coral could the clown possible host off of, or just use as a safe haven or home?
<There really is no need for the clown to have a host in captivity. Some clowns will host in other corals, but some clowns won't host in the anemone they are supposed to host in. All depends on the individual fish. More here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/clownfis.htm >
I was looking to put it on the opposite side of the tank, since my firefish has his rock or hole he normally spends his time around, and I don't want any aggression happening.
<I don't think you'll have problems here.>
Any suggestions
<Clowns will sometimes host in other corals, the families Trachyphylliidae and Caryophylliidae are quite common, but again this really is unessential in captivity.>
Thanks
<Welcome! Mich>
Mike
 

Crab ID and Clown/Anemone Question – 07/03/07 Crew, Sorry to lump two different subjects in the same e-mail, but thought it would save you some time. I purchased 65lbs or live rock (50 lbs Fiji/Marshall and 15lbs Florida) about 5 months ago. In the last week or so, I noticed two crabs that hitchhiked in. My face is pressed against the glass every night, so I'm really surprised I haven't seen these crabs until recently (although my tank is 110g). I have attached pictures. I'm pretty sure the first picture is of a sponge crab, genus Schizophrys. It is pretty small and is covered with pieces of orange sponge. The second two pictures are of the same crab. It's hard to get a good shot of it, but it is pretty small (maybe 1/2") and relatively flat with hairy legs. It's claws are pretty small. I've searched the web and WWM but can't find a picture that looks like either of these crabs. My closest guess on the second is the Schizophrys aspera. <Appears to be...> Should I remove these? <Mmm, not yet> Currently, I don't have much in the way of fishes or inverts. One gold banded maroon clown, one BTA, two cleaner shrimp, a pretty good sized clean-up crew, and a sailfin tang in QT. I intend to stick with smallish fish (but not tiny) and some soft corals. When I bought my clown, he was loving life in a BTA. Since I've had him, though, he's spent much of his life in a hospital tank while my display went fallow for 4+ weeks. I recently introduced him back into the tank and he shows no interest in my BTA. <Takes time...> My BTA is tucked under a rock at the bottom of the tank, but definitely visible, flowing, calling out to his friend, but the clown seems totally uninterested. I find this strange since he was in a BTA when I purchased him. I would love for them to have a hot, lovely relations. Do clowns find anemones by scent, sight, some combination of the two, or none of the two? <Good question... I don't know... perhaps a bit of both... It is known that the fish DO communicate with the Anemones chemically> Are clowns fickle, or can it take weeks or longer for the clown to settle in and accept a BTA? <I suspect both... plus a bit autistic... have short memories...> As always, your thoughts are appreciated. Andy <Welcome. Bob Fenner>

A suggested corr. <Hexacorallians of the World>  7/2/07
Dear Bob,
Thanks for finding that! It is people like you who keep us honest.
<Always glad to add my dos centavos>
Hexacorallians of the World is built exclusively from the published literature -- nothing is original with me except for what I have published.
<It is a wonderful tool. I thank you for your efforts>
When I went into the guts of the database to search for the source of this record (I employ undergraduates, mostly, to enter data, and they sometimes select the wrong name), I could not understand the logic of that particular part of it. My systems administrator is on vacation at the moment -- as soon as he returns I will track down the source of this record and get back to you on it (and correct it if it does not accurately reflect the publication).
Sincerely,
Daphne
<Real good... BTW, do you collect corrections to you and (Gerald) Allen's
"Clownfish and Anemone" tome? There are a sprinkling of errors,
disagreements for instance with the posted known symbionts there and your
URL. Cheers, Bob Fenner, WetWebMedia>
Daphne G. Fautin
Professor, Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
Curator, Natural History Museum and Biodiversity Research Center
University of Kansas
website www.nhm.ku.edu/~inverts

Suitable clown – 06/28/07
Hi,
In my 130 gallon tank, among others, I've kept a pair of Ocellaris and E. quadricolor for over 2 months, but Ocellaris would not host the anemone.
<Happens... maybe later>
So I've been thinking of adding another clown that would be more likely to host the anemone.
<... better not to mix clown species...>
Which clown would you recommend for that? (after reading those comments on FAQ, I am afraid to buy the readily available Clarkii's and Tomato's)
Thanks,
Andrius
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/cnidaria/anthozoa/anemones.htm
See the chart re naturally occurring relations? These are better bets.
And read the linked files above re Clownfish and Anemones.
Bob Fenner>

Will a Clown Host in Button Polyps? Maybe 06/08/2007
Dear Crew
<Hello Tuscan, Mich with you tonight.>
First let me start by saying how much you have helped me with my freshwater tanks. Without your wonderful website I don't know where I'd be.
<Glad you have enjoyed the website and found it helpful.>
I was hoping for your advice with a question that I have concerning a saltwater tank. I am hoping to start a 20 gal. long saltwater aquarium with a pair of tank bred ocellaris clowns, 2 skunk cleaner shrimp, and possibly 1 tank bred neon goby. I realize that clownfish don't need a host anemone but I would still like to see them hosting something. I also realize that anemones are difficult to keep for even an expert so I was thinking I would get a coral instead. I have read "Clownfishes" by Joyce Wilkerson and was ready to choose frogspawn as a surrogate host but then I walked past some button polyps and became increasingly interested in them, but I have been unable to find any information on clownfish hosting them. My question is simple, would a tank bred ocellaris clownfish host button polyps or should I get frogspawn instead?
<A difficult question to answer. Kind of like offering a hungry vegetarian a steak or lobster dinner, you never really know what they might pick or the meal may be outright refused. My guess is the clown would be more likely to host in the frogspawn. But if you really like the button polyps give it a try. You might get lucky. In the same respect some clowns don't host in captivity, so even if you placed the frogspawn or anemone for that matter, it doesn't mean the clown will form a symbiotic relation with it. It is hit or miss, even more so with captive bred clowns as many have not observed this behavior.>
Sorry for such a long letter and thank you for your input.
<No worries! Hope this helps. Mich>
Sincerely, Tuscan Thompson

Maroon Clownfish Beating up LTA – 5/6/07
Well I have a 36 gal that is my second tank.  It houses a Maroon Clown 2 years old, a large long tentacle anemone, (home to the clown), And a banded coral shrimp.  Nitrite, nitrate, ammonia are all at zero.  PH 8.3, Salinity 1.023.
<Salinity is a bit low for an anemone.  I recommend gradually bringing it up to 1.026.>
Well the last few times I have done water changes afterward the clown gets crazy and starts ramming the anemone all over the tank and into the live rock.
<Ouch!>
The anemone will close up and turn a sort of green color and he just doesn’t look good.
<I can imagine.>
Eventually this will cease but it seams like the clown is getting worse and worse each time.  My question is, is this normal or is he going to kill my anemone soon?
<Quite possible!  Maroons are well known for abusing an anemone.  It is recommended that the anemone be at least 3 times larger than the clownfish.  How long have you had the anemone?  Is it healthy?  I suggest separating the anemone from the clownfish until it gets much larger.  I would also increase the feedings to get it to grow faster.>
Please help.  
Thanks for a great page
<You’re welcome!  Brenda>

Can a clownfish be too big for an anemone? Yes. – 4/28/07
I recently purchased a RBTA <Rose Bubble Tip Anemone?> that is about the size of a golf ball. It appears to be doing well in my tank, and my very small F.P. <False Percula?> clown has taken up residence. I also have a larger G.M. <can’t figure this one out – something Maroon?> clown (approx 1 1/2"-1 3/4") in my tank. The G.M. clown (Cletus) has never been aggressive to the F.P. clown (no name), and even allows him to be the main resident of the anemone. Cletus does however feel the need to at least visit the anemone every time he swims by. He will lay down in it or "wallow around" for a minute or two and then leave. He is about the same size as the anemone head, and the term "bull in a china cabinet" is fitting. Is this damaging to the anemone?
<Yes, this can be damaging.>
How can I tell if the anemone is being stressed?
<If it does not fully extend as normal, or does not continue to appear to do well.  You may need to separate them until the anemone grow more and has a chance to settle in.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marclnbehfaqs.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/btadisfaq2.htm
Also, please don’t abbreviate except for easily recognized terms, or at least spell it out once.  I still can’t figure out what a G.M. clown is.
Cheers, Alex>

Anemones and Clown Fish.. host/symbiont def.s  3/16/2007
Bob and Crew,
    Not a question, more of a comment brought on by my ADD.  In the Clown Fish/Anemone Relationship, the Anemone is the Host and the Clown Fish is the symbiont.  It just drive me crazy to read that "My Clown Hosted the BTA".
Thanks for letting me vent
    Roy
<Heeeee! Okay! BobF>

Clown fish Digging to China  – 03/09/07
I did a Search of the data base, and saw very little mention of my problem.
<Hello, Brandon here tonight.>
I have a yellow striped maroon clown, and a BTA in a 125g tank.<Hope you matched the clown to the anemone.>  I have 5 inches of sand, and the tank is reef on right and reef on left, open in the middle.  <Sounds like a nice set up.>  This is where the clown and BTA occupy.  My problem is, the clown has dug a hole, to the bottom of the tank (Glass), and keeps pushing the BTA into the hole.  <If you want to keep the anemone you need to take the clown out pronto.>  I'm not sure if the BTA is happy there,  <They like to go where they want, without an over amorous Clown Fish shoving them to and fro.> and if he wasn't, it would be hard for him to move to a spot he likes better, due to the Clown pushing him to and fro.  <Yes it would be.>
Is this normal behavior?  <Not really, it does happen in aquariums though.>  If I add a male clown of a smaller size (the one I have now looks to be female (larger and dark maroon)), would that pre-occupy her?<No, please see above, Re: Get the Clown out now.>
Can I place large base rock under the BTA? or from your experience, would the clown just push the BTA to another sandy spot?  <Take the Clown out, and give the BTA a chance to settle down where it likes.  After a few weeks, try reintroducing the Clown.  If it is still harassing the BTA, then take the Clown back to the store, and try another one, or move the clown to a separate tank, and enjoy your Clown less Anemone.  The truth is, in captivity Clown Fish tend to do more harm than good.>
Hope you have a suggestion.
<Please see above.  Brandon.>
Scotty

Clownfish No Need for Anemone.  - 02/21/07
Hello I am a 15 year old just starting my own tank.
<Hi Ryan, welcome to the briny world, Mich here with you.>
It’s a 29-gallon salt-water tank.  I successfully cycled the tank with 5 pieces of live rock getting plenty of growth. I also have 4 hermit crabs and two snails. I just picked up a Chromis and a yellow belly damsel at the LFS this weekend and they seem to be doing great. If these two stay healthy for another week or so I would like to purchase another fish.  Which FINALLY brings me to my question. I have read up on clown fish and would like to get one for my tank. But as this being my first tank I would like to steer away from the anemone.
<I think you are most wise here my young friend.  These creatures can cause many a problem.>
My question is will the clown fish still be content/happy in this tank without an anemone.
<Most certainly.  There is no need for an anemone.>
The only reason I ask is because I don't want to have a stressed out fish because it doesn't have proper living situations in my tank.
<Many clownfish are captive breed, meaning they have never lived in the wild and most likely have never seen an anemone.  This would be an excellent choice for your tank and should be relatively easy to find.>  
Thanks again.
<You're welcome!  -Mich>
-Ryan

Re: Clownfish No Need for Anemone.   2/22/07
<Hi Ryan, Mich here.>
Thank you very much, and to be honest I was hoping that was your answer because I really want a clown. :]
<You're welcome!>
Sorry to nag but just one more question, for the two fish in my tank currently I am feeding them brine shrimp and some pellets brine at night pellets in the morning. Anyways both foods tell me to feed them at least 3 times a day. Is this like the "rise and repeat" on the back of the shampoo bottles, or is 3 daily feedings really necessary?
<Depends on the fish, not the food.  I would recommend something besides brine shrimp, which isn't very nutritious.  Many like New Life Spectrum brand food, some folks even make their own food!  But as a general rule small frequent feedings are preferred to large single feedings.  Three times a day is not unreasonable, just use a very small quantity.  More here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/feeding.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/cav1i3/Progressive_Recipe/Progressive_Recipe.htm  >
Thanks again and sorry to be such a nag.
<No worries, not a nag,>
Ryan
<Cheers!  -Mich>

Double anemone hosting  2/19/07
Hi WWM Crew!
I have been using your site for a while since i am fairly new to the hobby, but i have one question that i can't find an answer to on this site. I have a rose BTA and just a regular brown BTA. i just barely got what the LFS said was a mated pair of Maroon Clowns. They are gorgeous! Well, after one day, the female started snooping around in the Rose BTA and after about 10 minutes just fell in love with it!  
Then she let the male in and they were so cute hosting together in the Rose BTA. Well, the next day I woke up and everything was cool, i went to work and came back, and the Rose BTA was a shriveled up from going to the bathroom, and they were hosting the other regular brown BTA. I thought to myself, oh how cool! They are hosting both anemones! i thought that they might get into some sort of cycle and go from one to the other, but when the Rose BTA bubbled up again she couldn't make up her mind, she went back and forth and just went from one to the other. It looks like she finally decided on the regular brown BTA, since i think that its a little bigger and she fits more inside of it, but now the male wont host in it with her, he hosts the Rose BTA by himself! Is this bad? Will they still like each other and maybe some day have babies? Or will they avoid each other and just host their own anemone's? Also, i just set up a new 175 gallon reef tank, i have a sump and lots of Rios going through making good current, its been a week cycling, i put in some bio-Spira, about 100 pounds of cured live rock, some rubble from another well established decease free tank, and some water from the same tank. I have a current lighting system with three 150 watt metal halides and those other fluorescent lights. About three days after adding the water, gravel and live rock, i came home one day to find that half of the live rock and the top of the sand was all covered in this brown/ maroon covered algae! it was everywhere! what is this stuff? how do i  get rid of it? I think that its a type of algae, will it go away, turn into another type of algae? or is this just part of cycling? My ammonia after one week tests 0 ppm, nitrites are 0 ppm and nitrates are about 15 ppm and ph is about 8.2- 8.4. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thank you so much for your help!
Chris.
<<Chris:  I have 2 species of clowns that regularly move back and forth between 3 anemones.  Usually, however, each clown has its favorite anemone to sleep in.  If they have mated in the past, they are likely to mate again.  If you want to learn more about breeding Clowns, take a look at these WWM pages http://www.wetwebmedia.com/clnfshbrdfaqs.htm I suggest you consider buying Clownfishes by Joyce D Wilkerson.
Regarding your new 175 tank, the brown stuff is most likely diatoms and the reddish stuff is most like Cyano algae.  Both are common in new tanks.  As your water parameters stabilize, they should minimize.  Cyano tends to build up in areas of low flow.  If you haven't added one already, you should now consider getting a cleanup crew for the tank.  I mostly use different types of snails and Asterina starfish.  Best of luck, Roy>>

Clown Hosting   2/14/07
Hi
<Hello.>
First let me say I love your site and I have found some very useful info there.
<Great.>
I recently was given some new fish to add to my tank, one of which is a beautiful maroon clownfish. My question is I wanted to get a bubble-tipped anemone for him. What is the best way to introduce the two? If I buy one will the fish just naturally go to it?   
Thank you for your help!
<There are no guarantees that the animal will take to the anemone, especially if it one that was reared in captivity. Only time...patience will tell.>
Egan Koenig
<Adam J.>