DSB Regrets-sand storms  9/20/07
Good evening. I have a DSB in my 2 month old 65g sumpless mixed reef.
I run an Aqua C Remora, Aquaclear 70 w/activated carbon & 2 Maxi Jet 1200's. My problem? Detritus and Dead spots. I went with 4-5" of fine sand for the sake of NNR. The problem is I can't get good enough flow towards the bottom of the tank without blowing the sand all around, and ultimately into piles.
<Yes, it can take some time and effort to figure out just how to arrange the rock and powerheads so that you don't get sand storms and dead spots. However, I assure you it can be done. I have Tunze and a 12000 MaxiJet in my 65g tank. It just takes some tinkering around with.>
Consequently, I have some areas of brown n'fuzzy detritus and hair algae worse then I ever had with my crushed coral substrate systems--which obviously lent themselves to moderate flow and vacuuming.
<You can lightly vacuum the surface of a sand bed too. You just have to be delicate about it.>
I feed as sparingly as humanly possible 3 fish--maroon clown, royal Gramma & scooter blenny). Anyway, If I had to do it all over again, I'd fore go the DSB (unless I had a sump). But for now, I want to know how best to deal with this issue.
<Patience. Give your tank some time to adjust to the changes you've made.>
Also, I'm a bit disappointed in the performance of the Remora, as it only produces a wet skimmate, at a rate of perhaps a 1/4 cup per day. I've tried raising and lowering the collection cup, in addition to contacting Aqua C (very attentive at least) to no avail.
<It might not be the skimmer. It's quite possible that you just don't have much to skim.>
Additionally, I change 8g of R/O water every week. Is there anything you can recommend here?
My cleaning crew may be a bit on the light side--7 or so blue leg hermits, 3 turbo snails and 4 Astreas...
<Just give it all some time. And read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dsbconvtofrom.htm
Best,
Sara M.>

Remove and wash 1/2 of the DSB? – 08/31/07
Dear crew,
<Mark>
My reef tank has a bad infestation of some type of Trachelomonas (or some other motile protist). Since this condition is usually the result of high nitrates and/or phosphates
<Mmm... and/or lack of competition, predation... circumstances fostering the same>
I tested the water column and a sample of water a couple inches within the substrate. I found that the nitrates were undetectable in both the water column and the substrate. The phosphates were undetectable in the water column, but were 1-2ppm from the water within the substrate.
<Not atypical... and was this PO3? Or PO4 or a combo.? And what of the test type... did it involve acidification? The reading could be spurious... for sure>
Obviously this is what is feeding my unwanted guests.
<Nah...>
Should I take out all the substrate I can without moving the rockwork (roughly half) and rinse it with running tap water?
<Not if it were me/mine, no>
I realize this will upset the biological filtration but I'm afraid something drastic has to be done!
Thanks,
Mark
<Again... nah! Unless you consider more reading, research as being drastic. Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dsbmaint.htm
and the linked files above... and let time go by. Bob Fenner>

Re: remove and wash 1/2 of the DSB?  9/1/07
Sorry about that, I used the wrong search (washing DBS instead of phosphate leaching from DSB). Had I used this search I would have seen by your response on 10/26/06 that phosphate leaching from the substrate or being used by pest algae would be unlikely.
<Ah, no worries>
The phosphate test kit I am using is Aquarium Pharm. and the first step is acidification. I guess that explains why the color never really matched.
<Mmm, yes... but also the common case... folks should know that such a process often releases insoluble phosphate, PO3, resulting in a higher than real measure for soluble, PO4, phosphate>
What would the best predators be for these protists? Fan worms? Clams?
<A broad mix of filter feeders... best really an addition of several pounds of very fresh (though "cured") live rock... and a "healthy" DSB/live sand>
Copepods?
Thanks,
Mark
<A blend, big populations of filter feeding organisms period. BobF>

Moving a DSB    8/25/07
Hi Guys!
I'm setting up my FOWLR (no corals for now) and I want a DSB for nitrate reduction. Problem is, I will be moving this thing from Virginia to Colorado in 3 years when I graduate from vet school. I already have started planning for the move (I'll adopt out my fish to my parents whose salt tank I'm managing and I'll move the live rock and re-cycle upon arrival).
<...sounds like a good plan.>
I'm simplifying my life with no coral until after the move, but I just can't let go of the DSB. It's a 23-27 hour drive and I was wondering if you had any advice on the feasibility of moving a DSB. I can leave it in the tank (it's only a 29 gallon), so in theory I'd be able to move without exposing too much of the anaerobic areas.
<Even a DSB in a 29g tank can be extremely heavy! (Trust me. I know, I have one.) That said, if you're personal friends with the Incredible Hulk and can manage to get it in your car and to its new location without breaking the tank; go for it. Of course, you should keep just enough water in the tank to keep it submerged. And you'll have to be careful to keep it from getting too hot/cold during the trip. Also, you might want to let it "cycle" for a few weeks at the new place. Even if you're really careful, you'll inevitably stir up some bacteria poo.>
So, attempt to move the DSB or chuck it and start again (groan!)?
<Even if you decide not to move it, don't pitch all of it. Carefully take out a chunk of it to use as seeder sand for your sand bed at the new place. And you could share the rest with local aquarists looking to seed or refresh their sand beds.>
Thanks a bunch, and if you ever need the advice of a then-seasoned salt keeper with a DVM and an interest in fish, call me in 20 or 30 years!
<You're going to make us wait that long?!>
Casey
<My pleasure,
Sara M.>

DSB causing nitrites? - 7/20/07
Hello again WWM crew!
Thanks for a wonderful site full of info and all the past the info you have given me.
My setup is a 125 g with about 200# LR and 125# LS in the display. I started it about 3 years ago. I set up a closed loop circulating system about a year and a half ago, thanks to your site, and my corals all love it. This pumps about 3600 gph total through six nozzles directed at each other, creating a more turbulent flow.
About a year ago, I upgraded my sump to a 55 gallon tank that I converted with guidance from the WWM site (thank you!). The first baffle holds my protein skimmer. From there, the water goes to the 5" DSB (added 6 months ago) and Chaetomorpha. The last compartment pumps 1200 gph (before head pressure) back to the tank. I designed the first and last compartments to be just large enough to comfortably hold their respective pumps and the rest is the DSB (26"x13" surface area).
I have a mix of fish including a three stripe damsel, 4 blue/green chromis, a pair of false perc clowns, 2 Bartlett's anthias, a green mandarin, 6 engineer gobies,
<Will get MUCH larger>
a Lamarck's angel and a blue regal tang. For corals/inverts I have a mix of about 10 different soft corals and another 10 SPS as well as a few sponges, a BTA that my clowns love and 2 cucumbers. Also present are some Mexican turbo snails and a hearty mix of red reef hermits and blue leg hermits as well as a duster cluster. Everyone gets along well and seems to be doing great. My corals are all growing and have good polyp extension throughout the day (except my orange sun coral, which extends at night). Some have even reproduced and spread (wood polyps, cloves, buttons, snake polyps and xenia have probably doubled in the past few months).
Before I added the DSB, all parameters tested fine except nitrates, which ran consistently very high (around 100!!!) Despite this, all my corals seemed to thrive (at the time, they were all soft corals). When I added the DSB, there was a minor spike of ammonia and nitrite and a simultaneous decrease in nitrates down to 20. Water changes seemed to have no effect on nitrates and I assumed that this was possibly because the LR and LS were leaching nitrates back into solution with water changes.
<Mmm, no... aerobic metabolic activity by the life there, yes>
Now, six months after adding the DSB, my nitrites never seemed to completely cycle and my nitrates never go below 40.
<Increase the DSB size/depth, add more macroalgae, light for same>
Even with water changes of about 30 gal per week, my nitrites are consistently around 1.0.
<Mmm, likely spurious. I'd try another test kit>
Still, my corals and fish seem to thrive despite what should be toxic conditions for them.
My thoughts on this are that my DSB is possibly too small for my bio-load, which I realize is quite high. I have also contributing to the nitrate issue by my feeding schedule and am currently weaning down my feedings ( I was feeding 2 small meals per day and have cut back to one per day with plans to wean even further).
I have confirmed my test results with other test kits and have ran the same test kits on my other tanks with different readings but still consistent results on those tanks, so I don't think it is a false reading.
<I see...>
Based on what I have read, I suspect that the DSB may be causing the nitrites to read high by not being large enough to completely denitrify the water.
<Possibly... but not the only reason>
Is this a logical thought process or am I way off base here? Also, without putting the DSB in the display, I have no more space to increase the surface area of my current DSB in my sump, although I could increase the depth to as deep as 15" in my current sump configuration. Would a deeper DSB be of benefit or do I need to increase the surface area and keep the 5-6" depth?
<This latter would be better>
I would prefer not to have the DSB in the display but if necessary, I can do that.
Also, I have been considering the addition of a coil denitrator and/or a fluidized bed filter.
<Worth trying>
I understand that an FBF is better for systems with a high bio-load, but do you think my overcrowded 125 would benefit?
<Mmm, yes... but perhaps to the detriment of increased nitrate>
I also understand that denitrators are often touchy and difficult to run properly, but the DIY coil denitrator sounds like it may bypass some of the difficulties inherent in the commercially available denitrators in which you have to feed sugar to the anaerobics. I also understand that a denitrator probably will not eliminate my nitrate problem significantly without me also adjusting my feeding to a more reasonable schedule. I found the plans for the coil denitrator on saltaquarium.about.com and the design is apparently by Don Carner. Are you familiar with this denitrator? If so, what are your thoughts about that?
<Can be made to work... the source of "free" carbon is almost always a/the issue with such contrivances... Newer, modern commercial units have dosing pumps...>
Basically, I am concerned about my nitrites not cycling and my nitrates being too high. I am amazed that my livestock are displaying no ill effects but concerned that long-term effects will be negative. Any suggestions you could give would be much appreciated because I LOVE my tank and every inhabitant. I am continuously trying to improve their captive lives and have already done much toward that thanks to the WWM crew and all the information on the site. Keep up the great work and thanks again.
Sincerely,
Rob Watson
<The simplest, long-term, no-holds-barred solution here is the addition of a new/extra sump/refugium... Bob Fenner>

Confused about moving a DSB 6/4/07
Hello,
<Hi>
Best site for advice but I need to clarify some of my questions? <Ok> I live outside of Buffalo, NY, last year October we had that terrible snow storm that caused so much damage. One thing that was damaged was our hard wood floor where my 75 gallon salt water tank sits. Our insurance is paying to repair and refinish the floors, therefore the tank needs to be moved along with everything else. <Not fun.> My problem will be that this is going to take at least 4 days. I plan on (from reading other questions) to save all the water in new garbage cans (after rinsing well), moving the fish/pets to a 39 gallon tank. With heater, power heads and hopefully my coral. I have a Yellow tang, 3 clowns, brittle star, very, very large goby, some snails, and other assorted little critters. My DSB is anywhere between 3"- to 8" depending on where my goby is digging. I have read that you can remove the DSB in layers, and replace back in that order. <Really tough to do, and the exposure to air/O2 makes this kind of pointless.> Then I have read that churning up established sand beds causes bad situations. <Can, but not in this case, usually worried about hydrogen sulfide.> I image that this is going to be pretty murky, as the top layers are white, but become grayer as you get deeper. Can I keep my DSB in layers, or only keep some of it and add new? <Personally, I would keep the very top where most of the critters live and replace the rest.> I have about 200 lbs of sand in this tank, and the tank has been with me for 3 years now. I would hate to have to replace this sand, as it was not too cheap to buy. <That is definitely the downside.> Also, will my sand digging goby which is about 8 inches be ok with no sand for hiding or digging for 4 days. <Should be ok.> What about lighting? <I would keep it muted.> Brittle star hides, so does the goby. I will have as much of my live rock as possible, but I am moving them into a much smaller tank. I plan on using what lights I have on the smaller tank (hubby is going to put together something to hang the lights over the tank). With the smaller tank, will I need to lower my lighting? I have mushrooms, cup corral, Xenia, and sea mat. Xenia had started to die out, which allowed me to have other coral, but the Xenia is making a come back which my clowns love.
The garbage cans that I am going to store my water in, I have seen that it is suggested to have a heater, power head and air stones or air pump, yes? <Yes.> I also intend to have additional "new" salt water in another can. I, as always, appreciate the advice and humor from this great site.
Thanks
Kris
<It’s an added expense but I would definitely replace most of the sand. Otherwise it seems like you have a good plan. Good luck with the (temporary) move.>
<Chris>

My DSB...Can It Be "Reused?" - 05/04/07
Dear Crew,
<<Hello Chris>>
I think my first attempt at sending this failed (sorry if this is a repeat).
<<No worries mate>>
I have a 150-gallon tank with a 5-inch deep sand bed, 220-pounds of live rock, 6 small fish, and various invertebrates.
<<Ok>>
The tank drains into a 30-gallon refugium.  At least it used to, until the refugium inexplicably cracked and drained its contents onto my basement floor (my 3 year old son is the leading suspect).
<<Mmm...I see>>
I plan to move the live rock and animals into 65- and 20-gallon tanks temporarily, so I can replace the carpet and install a new refugium (with padlock).
<<Hee-hee!  And maybe a proximity alarm...>>
My question is whether I can use any or all of the sand from my deep sand bed, or if I need to start from scratch?
<<You "can" use/reuse the existing sand bed but...you will need to allow time to cycle and carefully monitor the system as disturbing/removing/replacing and "re-zoning" the bed layers will cause a massive die-off of the infauna.  If this is unacceptable, then do consider using "new" sand which can then be seeded heavily from the old bed to give it a kick start>>
I'm pretty sure I'll need to remove the sand in order to lift the tank off of the stand.
<<Agreed>>
I added the DSB about 10 months ago.  Your input would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Chris
<<Cheers, EricR>>

DSBs...Stir?  Vacuum?  Both?  Neither? – 05/02/07
Crew,
<<Chris>>
I've gotten several different opinions from different employees, at each of my 4 LFS.
<<Well Chris...this hobby “is” much about opinions>>
My 55-gallon tank has a 4-inch DSB.
<<Cool>>
This tank has been set up for going on 4 years now.  My question is, should I vacuum the sand bed?
<<I think Bob/many would disagree with me but, as a general rule, I say “no” as long as the DSB has been employed correctly.  If you have utilized an appropriate substrate particle size (sugar-fine...in my opinion), are providing adequate water flow (using the “guideline” of 10x the tank’s volume as a minimum), and have detritivores present (Bristleworms, Nassarius Snails, Brittle Stars, etc.) ...then I see no need to vacuum the sand bed.  I have a 6” – 8” DSB in my 375g display that has never been vacuumed in the almost four years it has been established>>
Should I stir it before water changes?
<<Not necessary>>
Life is thriving, but the sand tends to develop a "dingy" tint to it.
<<I have found that a Dragon Goby (Amblygobius phalaena) keeps the bed “disturbed” just enough to keep it looking good without digging too deep like many of the “Sleeper” Gobies seem to do>>
When I put the sand in, it was bright white, but over the years, it's not so bright.
<<Indeed>>
All tests are perfect.  VHO lighting, nothing has changed in years, except for the vibrancy of the sand.  Please advise.
<<Do consider A. phalaena as a possible solution>>
I'm thinking it may just be from the years of detritus particles mixing in with it, and that by stirring, or vacuuming, that it will return the luster.
<<Stirring the upper layer (1/4” – ½”) of sand is fine if you wish to do so...but instead of siphoning this away, let the liberated bacteria/detritus/et al mix in to the water flow to be captured/consumed/utilized by your corals and/or other sessile fauna (e.g.-sponges)>>
Thanks,
Chris
<<Happy to assist.  EricR>>

Re: DSBs...Stir?  Vacuum?  Both?  Neither? - 05/02/07
Thanks.
<<Welcome>>
I'll leave as is then, and look into the Goby.
<<Very good>>
I have plenty of the snails, worms, etc. you mentioned above.
<<Excellent>>
My sand bed is sugar fine.
<<Very good again>>
I started it with a bag of live sand, and brought back the rest from the beach in Panama City, Florida.
<<Mmm, don't usually recommend folks get sand from the beach as there is a real possibility for introducing parasites/toxins/pollutants>>
I brought back several buckets that I got from at least waste deep water so it wouldn't have shell pieces in it.  I then put it in an old tank on my porch for about a month so anything in it that may be harmful would die off.  I then added some RO water and rinsed it.  I then let it dry again, and sifted through it as I added it to my tank.
<<Ah, ok...you put the time/effort to thoroughly clean it first.  But...I would still have misgivings as I don't believe this sand to be Aragonite but more likely Calcite or even Silica in nature.  Not that these latter two are bad/can't be used in a marine/reef system, they just don't offer the benefits of Aragonite>>
It's a lot cheaper than buying that much at the LFS, and by seeding it with one bag of live sand, it all became live.
<<Indeed, though this "seeding" would also have been accomplished with the addition of the live rock>>
And Panama City is home to the world's most beautiful beaches, so it's like a vacation all over again each time I see that sugar fine, bright white, sand in my tank.
<<There's no disputing the beauty of Florida's sandy beaches (and the huge draw for visitors re), but when it comes to what is "below" the waves...I'm happy to negotiate the maybe somewhat less "user-friendly" yet no-less beautiful shoreline of the Kona Coast.  EricR>> <Hope to see you there soon! B>

DSB – To Stir or Not – 4/29/07
Hello.
<Hi Eric>
I am sold on the deep sand bed methodology. I have read here and in books that occasional stirring can have positive effects by providing food for corals, and reducing detritus buildup. My question is that others say anoxic areas in DSBs form, and gases that can be released from these areas when stirred, or with downed power-head, that can be fatal to the aquarium inhabitants.
<Hydrogen sulfide, see more on this at WWM.>
Can you help me clear this up, and if stirring is indeed recommended, should the entire depth be stirred, only the surface layers, and how frequently?
<Occasional stirring of the top ½” to 1” is fine. Going deeper than that puts at risk the beneficial bacteria helpful in denitrification. As for frequency, I’d say that in the absence of any natural sand stirrers, about once a week or so should do. It all depends on whether/how fast detritus collects on the sand bed. You could also lightly vacuum any areas where excess detritus builds up (ideally, increase flow in those areas to eliminate/reduce future deposits). Definitely consider employing some natural help by way of Nassarius snails, and perhaps a brittle star (depending on the size of the system and its inhabitants): http://www.wetwebmedia.com/brittlestars.htm . Much more regarding sand stirring, cleaning, etc starting here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marsiftfaqs.htm .>
Thanks,
Erik
<You’re very welcome, Eric, and good luck! –Lynn>

Deep Sand Bed 1/5/07
Hello Crew:
<Hi>
I currently have a 55 gallon reef that I am trying to add a DSB to.  I am slowly adding the sugar fine sand and I am now up to about 4 inches.  The problem that I am having is that my four Maxi Jet 1200's are blowing the sand like CRAZY.  <I bet, big powerheads.>  I don't want to change them because my corals are doing very well with them.  I was wondering if I could use different substrate as the top 2 inches for the DSB.  I was thinking crushed coral.  <Not really, will trap debris and cause nitrate problems.>  If I can use crushed coral do you have any recommendations on how to avoid the milky water that crushed coral always causes? <Wouldn't use.> I know you can rinse it for ever and still get the cloudy water.  I do not use a filter just an Aqua C Remora and am concerned that the cloudy water would last forever.  Thank you so much for your help.
<Best bet is to try to rearrange the powerheads.  Maybe find a configuration that works better.  Crushed Coral will only add problems long term.>
<Chris>

DSB worries  - 10/28/06
Hello Crew. I have a question that I would like to run by you. Currently I am using a remote refugium that also contains a 6 inch DSB. I can honestly say that I have seen a reduction in nitrates after getting the fuge/DSB established and running. Lately I have heard some concern over DSBs leaching phosphates Back into the system. Is there any truth in this theory?
<Not much... the conditions that would return insolubilized phosphate back to solution are very rare in aquarium settings>
Should I
be changing my DSB on a yearly or semi yearly basis??   Thanks in advance.
<I stand by my general "rule of thumb" encouraging the (likely) addition (rather than partial removal/replacement) of some part of the substrate here after a year or so... every half year. There are other inputs re this issue posted on WWM... under DSB Maint. FAQs. Bob Fenner>

DSB's, depth, gasses  10/20/05
Crew-
<Craig>
I was doing some follow up on your FAQ's about substrates and DSB's and I noticed that Steve Allen said that DSB's denitrify all the way to nitrogen gas.
<Mmm, can...>
In my 30 gallon reef's DSB, I have noticed that small pockets of air can be seen through the glass all around the edge of the sand bed. I assume these pockets of air are the end product of denitrification.
<This is possible... but other reactions result in gasses produced here as well>
If they are, it would be significant to note that the air pockets only occur within the top 1-2" of sand. Would this support those of the opinion that deeper DSB's offer no advantage over more shallow beds?
<Mmm... no... the gas may be simply coalescing... floating up to this level>
Or is it just as likely that the visible air pockets are the accumulation of nitrogen gas that has risen to the top of the bed after being created in the deeper parts of the bed?
<Bingo>
Since there is a lack of consensus on the virtue of DSB's, I thought I would pass my observations along.
Craig
<Appreciate this. It may well be that some studies have been done, published on the make-up of these gas accumulations... not easily found, indexed in the pet-fish literature, but... there are college/university libraries with computer-based search systems... Bob Fenner>

Deep Sand Bed Maintenance - 11/15/2005
If I go with deep sand beds instead of crushed coral how do I clean the sand since you can't gravel vacuum?
<Various sand sifters are available. Most important however is strong water flow, regular water changes, not over feeding and effective skimming. Read this link, and follow the links above,
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/deepsandbeds.htm . Oh yes, and I forgot to mention earlier that your Tuskfish does need live rock, or at least some suitable hiding spaces. - Josh> 
Thanks Tony 

Moving A DSB...No Party - 12/06/05
WWM DSB Guru: Hello,
<<Howdy>>
I'd like any advice you have on moving a DSB.
<<Generally not worth the bother/mess to try to move the entire bed...is up to you...but I would place new sand in the new tank and just seed it generously with sand from the old tank.>>
Currently, I have about a 3-4" sugar-fine Oolitic DSB in a 100 gal. reef that's been happily gobbling nitrates for 2.5 years.
<<Very good!>>
I'm moving all of the livestock to a larger tank. I plan to move the LR and the fish first, then slowly scoop out sections
of the DSB, rinse it gently in remaining tank water, and replant it in the new tank at about 10 lbs per day (I think I have about 150 lbs total to move.).
<<Mmm...see my previous comment. Do be aware that relocating the old sand bed will cause a die-off of micro-/macro-life within the bed as the different levels/layers become mixed together.>>
DSB critters like my sand sifting starfish will move after the bulk of the sand gets moved into the new tank. I'm planning on avoiding moving the whole thing at once to avoid any noxious sulfur based gases getting dumped into the new tank, or any other nasties that might be released upon disturbing the bed.
<<Of little concern.>>
I'll disturb quite a bit of the anaerobic bacteria,
<<Among other things...>>
obviously, and might require months of maturation before the newly transplanted DSB is working at full throttle again, I assume.
<<Not much difference here between this or heavily seeding a new bed eh?>>
Is this the correct approach, or do I need not worry and can move all at once?
<<I don't recommend moving the entire bed unless the tank will sit fallow until it cycles. Whichever method you choose, consider placing the fish/livestock elsewhere until you can test/confirm the safety/stability of the new setup. EricR>>
Cheers, SLC 

Replacing Sand, Building Depth Back Up - 01/05/2006
Hello,
<Hi there Anne.>
I've looked through the questions but haven't come across one that answers mine........
<Ok.>
I have been taking out small amounts of sand during my weekly water changes (the last three times) that seem to have Cyanobacteria growing on it.
<Hate it when that happens. You can try a smaller diameter tube, should help.>
I'm starting to notice my DSB isn't so deep anymore. Is it ok to add sand back into the tank a little at a time to build this back up?
<Yes, and you're right, a little at a time. When adding try moving small portions, add the new, smooth the old back over. Don't bury the existing bed.>
Thank you
<Gladly. - Josh>
Anne Canfield
Staff Research Associate II
California National Primate Research Center
<Awesome. I love 'em!:)>

DSB maintenance   2/24/06
<Hi Steven - Tim answering your question today!>
I have a question regarding the maintenance of my DSB.  First I should describe my system.  The tank in question is a 55g FOWLR containing a 5" bed of fine aragonite with about 80lbs of rock.  Its inhabitants are a pair of Clarkiis and a cleanup crew consisting of a few large Turbos, some Nassarius snails, blue-legged hermits, and a diadema urchin.  This tank flows down to a 10g dark refugium (used for plankton generation) and then into a 29g illuminated sump housing various soft corals.  Filtration is largely natural with the except of small amounts of carbon (changed weekly) and a Seaclone 150 skimmer. <Is the skimmer working for you? I have read mixed reviews.>
     Now for the DSB question.  My concern is that I have not been properly maintaining the sand bed.  I have heard a lot of mixed opinions regarding the cleaning of DSBs.  Some say to occasionally stir the top inch, others say to stir the whole sand bed, and some say to vacuum the sand.  I have been doing none of these.  Instead I was assuming that the Nassarius snails would adequately stir the top inch as well as remove detritus.  Do you think that this is sufficient? <Review the information at http://www.wetwebmedia.com/deepsandbeds.htm and the related links with regard to proper maintenance of a DSB. In terms of the Nassarius, their adequacy will depend on the number in your tank; the blue hermits will also help.> Or should I begin a cleaning regimen? <Always a good idea - especially in terms of vacuuming the surface of the substrate.> If I do start cleaning the sand now am I putting the system in danger by releasing excess nutrients and/or hydrogen sulfide? <This should not be a problem, though will depend on the age of the sand bed and the extent to which your cleaning crew have been keeping things tidy.> I guess I was thinking about starting to vacuum the sand and starting by doing only a small fraction every few days so that if there is hydrogen sulfide release it will be on a smaller scale. <Always better to be safe, I agree.>
     And one more question regarding the tank's set-up.  When I set up this tank I first laid down the sand bed, and then placed the rock on top.  The rock covers approximately half of the DSB surface area.  Was this a mistake?  Recent reading suggested to me that it is a mistake because the area underneath the rocks will not be reached well enough by the detritivores and can't be stirred by myself without removing the rock, so it will end up being a large nutrient sink.  I guess my thoughts during the set-up were that rock on top of the sand would be fine because uneaten food/waste would not settle under the rocks and so this area would relatively nutrient-free with the except of small amounts of organics seeping in from neighboring uncovered portions of the bed.  Furthermore, the rock placed atop the DSB should aid in creating the hypoxic conditions necessary for natural denitrification, correct?  Your opinions are much appreciated!  And huge thanks to the entire WWM crew for taking
the time to make us all better aquarists!

Re: QT screw up, oh and DSB sand  - 05/13/2006
Thanks again for your reply Bob. The weirdest thing has happened - the ich (or at least what I thought was ich) disappeared from Regal tang
in less than a day. Is that possible?
<Umm, yes... is not really gone... is/has cycled off... your system is infested... and like that not-so-popular ex-Austrian Gov of the Sunshine State, it'll be "baaaaack">
- I guess it could have been micro bubbles but I don't think so  since all I have is small hang on filter and power head as filtration- maybe some sand particles in the QT ( there is no sand bed in the QT)?.
<I suspect you're right here. This was Crypt>
In my other QT, my yellow eye tang has regained its color and the fish seem happy. I am doing a 10% water change in QT every 2-3 days to help the stress levels. Can a FW dip with methylene blue remove ich immediately?
<Not generally...>
That's all I did!! Any ideas ?- Oh well.
On an unrelated matter I have a refugium with a DSB that I had taken offline for a couple of months. I have decided to give more space to the Chaeto so I began to remove my 7 inch sugar fine sand  (to use in my new system) when I noticed some black streaks in the sand and smelled an odor . Can I still reuse the sand and if so do I need to rinse or recycle  it with salt water?
<Best to give this a vigorous rinse at least... the hydrogen sulfide smell should be "all gone" before re-using... though the black stain may well persist. Bob Fenner>
Many thanks again

- DSB and Nitrate Equilibrium -
Crew! Please help me... On August 8th of this year, I "retrofitted" my 45G FOWLR aquarium with a 6" DSB composed of 1-2mm aragonite substrate, and some oolitic material as well.  Since then my nitrates have consistently remained in the 29-31ppm range (as measured with a colorimeter for accuracy.) Partial water changes do reduce the amount of nitrates present, however, after the water change, the nitrate concentration slowly rises again (about 4ppm a week) until it reaches that 29-31ppm mark.  I have heard of the concept of Nitrate equilibrium, do you think that this scenario is probable in my case? <Could be, but seems more likely to me is that your DSB just hasn't matured enough to provide any real benefit at this point. They are not plug and play, per se... they need to time develop the various levels of fauna that will at some point help consume the nitrate. Is akin to cycling your tank.> Given that the Deep Sand bed is only 4 weeks old, is it possible that it hasn't had enough time to establish enough anaerobic bacteria yet? <Exactly.> How many weeks should it take, and if this equilibrium continues, when should I look at other methods of nitrate reduction. <I'd give it a month or two.> I simply don't believe that 5 small fish (1 ocellaris clown, 1 Pseudo Fridmani, 1 Firefish goby, 1 sixline Wrasse, and 1 yellowtailed Blue damsel) could create that much nitrate. <Small amount of total water... makes sense to me.> They are fed very sparingly, I have a skimmer installed, (although not a good one, it's a Red-Sea Prizm.)  The 30 lbs of live rock are providing my biological filtration for me....  I don't understand the problem...  Is part of the problem that I'm not being patient enough? <Yes.>
Richard   
<Cheers, J -- >

DSBs, Sand stirring and nutrients 3/16/05
Thanks for your reply. I thought I had been feeding pretty sparsely.
<It could be fine feeding, but a lack of adequate water flow which allows the fecal pellets to linger. Or... bad feeding habits like allowing the thawed pack juice from frozen foods into the system>
As follows:
Fish: 2.5" yellow tang, ocellaris, purple firefish, 2" pajama cardinalfish. Every other day, or 2 out of 3 days, 6 or so drops of "Marine Plankton", one at a time; 1/4 to 1/3 of a thawed cube of "Prime Reef" or 2-3 large flakes of Formula 2, being careful to not feed more than they will eat in 5 min.s. I have relied on the 10 or so hermits, and 20 or so snails, to eat the leftovers.
<All reasonable... easy on the hermits though - really not that "reef-safe" in the long run>
My nitrates are at 0 (as are ammonia and nitrites). From that assay, I had been assuming that I wasn't having a problem with excess nutrients.
<There's no mention of water changes or skimmer output. Two important issues>
Here's something that's different in the last 4 or so months (tank has been operating for better part of a year total). After deciding to get into the coral business (have now had a mushroom and a Kenya tree for about 3 months--appear happy and healthy and growing, as well as a crocea for about a month after a month in QT), I no longer [move] the LR around and don't aggressively vacuum the sand bed every couple of weeks as I had been doing before I decided to add corals. 
<You have no need to sand stir or vacuum as long as you have strong water movement throughout the tank (20-30X would be nice)>
So, for the last 4 mo.s, I have only been able to agitate and vacuum the sand around the periphery of the tank--the LR
occupies most of the footprint of the tank, except for the approx 2" space I left to get my hand in between the LR and the tank to clean the tank walls. I have a sand bed depth of 3-4 inches of med grain sand--around 2mm. 
<Hmm... a bit coarse on the sand too... if the water flow is too low, this becomes a nutrient sink :(>
I know from the article on DSB that is borderline,
<not really... the critics of DSB neglect to emphasize that water flow makes or breaks them>
but from 0 nitrates I have assumed it is working OK.
<I enjoy using and recommend DSBs very much>
Bottom line: is there a need, and if so how, to stir and vacuum the sand under the LR? Thanks!
<No worries. Anthony>

DEEP Sand Bed- Deep Problems?
I have a 100 gallon reef setup with about 300+ lbs of live rock, 2 Maroon Clowns (paired) 1 Blue Tang, 2 Blue-lined Gobies and 1 Orange Shouldered Tang. They are all about 2 to 3 inches in size. sand in Tank is about 4 years old and has been filtered by a wet dry and a Euroreef rated at about 200gal. Everything has been fine and stable except for nitrates which have stayed at about 10 to 20ppm. For 4 years, I have been doing 10%weekly water changes until I decided to get rid of the wet/dry and go with a DSB setup.
So about 2 months ago I bought a 32 gallon Rubbermaid tall (used for garbage) and put it in a another Rubbermaid low container and filled the 32gallon with sugar fine Southdown sand almost to the top, creating a DSB of 19 inches. Basically, I have a refugium containing 19 inches of Southdown.
<WOW!! That is a REALLY deep sand bed! You really have to believe in the value of DSBs with that kind of depth!>
Do I need to add stirrers or will the live rock provide them?
<Well, I would add some stirring creatures if that is your goal.>
I also added Southdown into the main tank(3 inches now) and 2 months later can see little air bubbles forming in the sand. (Nitrate being reduced? sulfur?)
<Nothing to worry about...That's evidence of denitrification occurring.>
I am also starting to get some Cyano growth, despite the numerous power heads I have in the tank and sufficient circulation.
<There are a number of factors which contribute to Cyanobacteria growth; insufficient flow is only one of the possibilities. Read up on Cyanobacteria here on the WWM FAQs.>
Did not add any stirrers and only siphon the top of the sand during water changes. Should I disturb/stir the sand or not? Some say not to touch the DSB. Others say it must be stirred.
<I would not disturb anything but the very top 1/2" or so of the sand.>
This is confusing. I feed 1 once daily very little enough for a 1 to 2 minute feeding. What can be causing the Cyano? I didn't have this problem before the DSB. Thanks for any help.
Rico
<Well, Rico- deep sand beds are efficient at denitrification, but they are not a guarantee of trouble-free systems. Nutrients can still accumulate, which can contribute to problems. Before you draw any quick conclusions about the merits or problems of the DSB, see how it works in your system. Continue good husbandry and overall water quality management, and I'm sure that the Cyanobacteria will vanish in due time. Hang in there! Regards, Scott F.>

Transferring my DSB
Hey Crew.
Will here from Ireland. I searched your FAQ's with no joy, so here goes. I want to transfer my DSB of oolitic aragonite that is 7" deep in my sump to my new inline refugium that has twice the volume. I was wondering should I remove the first half inch of my existing bed to inoculate my new bed and discard the rest or is there a better way?
Cheers
Will
<Mmmm, I wouldn't toss any of it... but it might be a good idea to quickly scoop out the top half as you state, and quickly remove the lower half (scoop or siphon), rinse, place it in the new tank, then place the original upper half on top of this. Bob Fenner>

DSB Sand Storm From Flow? - 06/03/05
Hi,  I've been reading through lots of the FAQs on your site, but haven't found my answer.
<<Ok>>
I'm planning on setting up my first reef aquarium with a sugar fine DSB of about 4-5inches in a 125gal tank.
<<Great!  Use DSBs in my systems too.>>
I also plan on running a Mag 7 for my sump and a Iwaki MD20RLXT on a closed loop for circulation.
<<Not enough flow in my opinion...do consider increasing...maybe double?.>>
My concern is, will the circulation pump with a PVC manifold create too much flow that it will stir up the DSB and shoot sand all over the place?  How do I avoid it?
<<If the outlets point directly at the sand bed, yes.  Expect some movement of the sand, but you can play with/adjust the flow to keep much of the bed in place.  One trick is to add a very shallow layer of larger gravel in high turbulence areas.  The bed will also stabilize some as it ages/binds with bacteria.  I have 11,000 gph of flow in a 375g tank with a 6" sand bed...so I know it can be done <G>.>>
Thanks.
<<Welcome, Eric R.>>

Sulfurous Odor In Sand 2 (12/23/2003)
Ahh, I'm sorry for bugging you guys <no problem>, as I have figured out that this is not a  bad thing.  After a bit of thought, I have realized that this smell is inevitable and it means I have a achieved an anaerobic sand depth.  Right?  Hehe.
<Some sulfurous smells from the sand when you mess with it go along with the process, but you would not want your tank emitting a sulfurous odor from th3e water. The good DSB practices mentioned in my last posting, on WWM or in Bob & Anthony's Reef Invertebrate book should help maintain a healthy, functioning DSB. Good luck, Steve Allen.>

DSB - 2/5/04
Thanks for that. <No problem>
OK, about the sand, the refugium at present is a stand alone 20 g tank, with a 4 inch DSB over a 1 inch plenum. <Perfect. Don't have to have the plenum, but doesn't hurt to have it in the configuration really> As you say, it does have a lot of microfauna in it, <Excellent> however, I was going to pull the DSB during the tank transformation to a refugium, and go bare bottom refugium, because it has been starting to get algae, which I have attributed to phosphate buildup in the DSB. <Possible for a sand bed to retain phosphates but sometimes there are other reasons as well. Try to increase circulation if you can, look into replacing bulbs if they are old, add more seaweeds and Algaes, maybe add a few algae cleaners (if they apply) and don't under estimate the value of more frequent water changes> However, I have been feeling bad about removing the DSB, because it has been excellent for nitrate reduction. <I agree. Exactly why deep sand beds are ideal and natural> It is actually aragonite, could you recommend anything I could do that would allow me to rescue this DSB and save it to use in the refugium? <Hmmmm........look through here for some ideas:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/deepsandbeds.htm 
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/Plenums.htm 
Worst case scenario, you rebuild the bed without the plenum, then add some of the old sand to the top of your newly added deep sand bed. Not really sure this is a great answer but I hope it inspires some thinking. Thanks for the question, ~Paul>

- Adding to the Sand Bed -
Hi,
Thanks your all your help in answering mine and others questions!
I have read through many of the DSB FAQ's and I can't seem to find the answer to my question:  A little tank background 55 gal SPS tank with 70 lbs LR, skimmer, small refugium with sugar fine DSB, the main tank has 1/2" to 3/4" sugar fine sandbed.  What I am wanting to do is add more sugar fine sand to the main tank, but, I first want to make sure that the Nassarius snails and other critters won't be harmed by adding the sand on top of them.  I know I could the capture the snails because when I feed they come popping up out of the sand for their share.  (They also have converted several areas with thin layers of eggs.) <The Nassarius snails will be fine.... go ahead and add the sand.>
In your opinion, what would be the best way to accomplish this task? <A bit of a pain in an existing tank. Will dust up for a day or so...> Also, could I leave the LR in place and kind of fill in around it? <I'd take the rock out, dump the sand in and the put the rock back.>
Thanks again for all of your help.
Cheri
<Cheers, J -- >

Adding to a Deep Sand Bed - 2/27/04
Hi again! I have just learned that you could test aragonite sand by adding it in vinegar. <Tried and true> Well, i had a bag of white sand left sitting in our garage because the dealer said it was silica sand. Anyway, i proceeded testing it and it indeed sizzled. <Ain't it cool?> There were pebbles that remained though but this solves my huge problem because NO ONE here sells aragonite. <Where is here?>
Anyway, I currently have a 1" Crushed Coral bed in my display tank which has been up for 6 months. i want to change it all and put a 4" DSB in the main tank and a 6" DSB in the fuge. My CC is all covered in brown algae and have a few what look like earthworms with heads that resemble golf balls in various places. <Peanut worms??> I initially thought of replacing all of it with the sand but just realized that all the current critters in the CC would be taken out too. <Correct>
1. Could i just cover them instead? I mean like pile over the sand with the CC underneath? <See here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/deepsandbeds.htm> I know i could put the CC on top to seed the sand but I hate how CC can trap detritus. <Use a small tube to siphon out the bad stuff> It's almost like a magnet to detritus and wouldn't want anything to do with it again.
2. If i remove it totally, would i have to re-introduce a couple of LR in the tank again to re-seed it? I currently have 200lbs of LR already in my tank. <Live sand would be better. A few scoops from your old sand or better yet a few scoops from others (reef club, friends, local fish store) but if not adding live rock will help in time. Here is some info http://www.wetwebmedia.com/livesand.htm Be sure to check the links in the above article (FAQs) för questions and our replies>
By the way, I only have one 3" Sailfin tang and a 1" damsel in my 140g FOWLR tank right now so i could easily move them to my quarantine while i start-over my tank. <Excellent. Watch water quality>
Again, many thanks for your very valued info. <No worries. Good luck ~Pahulio>
Ken Millan
Philippines

- Deep Sand Rising -
Hi Crew,
Sorry for yet another question!
I set up my 75g a few days ago with a 5" DSB of sugar fine pure aragonite and some base rock. Will this stuff ever settle down? I let it sit for 48 hrs with no filtration. I am now running a Aqua Clear 500 to clear out the sediment but when I turn on the 2 Maxijet 1200's, it just kicks the sand up all over again. I have tried moving them around, up, etc but it is still "digging" out trenches. I really don't want to buy more sand of a larger grain size to lay on top but that's all I can think of. Any other suggestions?? <Yes.> How do you have sugar fine sand and high flow? <Put a one inch layer of larger, heavier particulate sand on top. Will take care of the problem.>
Thanks again!
<Cheers, J -- >

Moving A Sand Bed To A New Tank
Hi Crew,
<Hi there! Scott F with you today>
Time to ask the experts!. I tried posting this on RC and have received conflicting advice. I have set up a new 75g with new water, new 5" DSB (Dry bagged) and base rock. I have an existing (about 1 yr) 30 gal with DSB, live rock, coral, snails, crabs, no fish. The new tank has been up for 2 weeks, I used some change out water in the initial fill. How is the best way to transfer everything over to the new tank? All at once? Move just the DSB and let new tank cycle? Leave old tank bare bottom for a while? I plan on using all the water from the 30 gal. I would like
to move it all at once if that's safe. Please help as I don't want to kill off  anything. Thanks!
<If it were me, I'd move all of the sand and water over at once, and let the tank cycle, monitoring it regularly. I would not add any new animals of any kind until you are certain that nitrite and ammonia are undetectable for some time. Patience counts here. Regards, Scott F>

Mistakes, Or Innovations?
Hello everyone, I love the info. you all have been providing, it has saved me from making mistakes, thanks.
<We're very happy to be of help to you! Scott F. at the keyboard today>
I have been reading DSB FAQ's for the last two days and I now have a couple of Q's of my own. I think I should have visited your site sooner in regards to this subject. I don't know why I didn't, brain fart :). Hopefully it will be less flatulent in the future:).
<I won't touch that one...I could. But I won't! >
Anyways, I bought and placed Carib Sea Aragonite ( I think it was Sea Floor Special) in my new 125 gal. corner show tank. It didn't have the particle size on the bag any where but it looked to be no more than 1mm in size. I know it isn't sugar fine or oolitic. It does have many other smaller sized particles in it ranging from what looks to be sugar fine all the way up to 1mm. I was under the understanding that a range in sand size (from sugar size to 1mm) was good to have because the different critters that will eventually be in their need different sizes. Each species needing a particular size in order to survive. So if there is a range in sand size the DSB will be able to support a large diversity of species. True?
<I believe that it will>
Then I read, after placing this sand in to the tank, the DSB FAQ's on this web site and sugar fine seems to be the size that best be suited for a DSB and particle sizes shouldn't be mixed.
<Well, there is a lot of thought and controversy on this matter. Yes, an all oolithic sugar-fine aragonite is ideal, but mixing grades of smaller-grain sands is also useful, IMO. I've done this in deep sand beds before with great results. However, you don't want to mix grades that are too dissimilar, as this can result in lots of compaction and channeling, potentially reducing the efficiency of the bed. Finer grades are useful for assisting with buffering and releasing bio-minerals into the water.>
I had also added live sand samples to help seed my current sand bed from reputable LFS's. Since my sand bed is already mixed should I go ahead and fill it with the same material I have started with or should I fill the remaining 2" ( I'm going for a 5" DSB) with sugar fine sand to increase its numbers in the DSB?
<I'd continue with the same material at this point.>
Next Q. I know that certain sand sifters eat DSB critters, I understand why this is bad and I'm not going to use them, but I have also herd that when sand sifters are sifting they are also destroying the tubes/burrows, that these DSB animals make. In doing so, they are restricting good water flow through the DSB that aids in the denitrification process and filtration and that this destruction is not a good thing. The DSB should be left undisturbed by all except for the DSB animals and only they should do the sifting. Yes, No?
<I would say an unqualified yes. I believe that you don't want animals that are too aggressive in their sandbed movements. Even in regular maintenance, the hobbyist should not disturb anything but the top layer of sand, IMO>
My 125 gal came with two wet/dry filters attached in the overflow box. They are filled with bio balls, should I replace these all together and put carbon filter pads in their place? My new tank has only been running for 4 or 5 days.
<Personally, I'd dump the bioballs altogether, and let the sand bed and live rock do the "filtering" in your tank>
My sump is a plastic barrel cut in 1/2 and holds 40 gal. The reason for its addition was because we could not get the pump to stop leaking at the threaded pipe attachments. We were going to add a sump any way. We needed something that would keep the leak contained and it was the best option from what we had to choose from.
<A great improve move, IMO!>
I know it isn't the most desirable shape but it's what we have to work with for the time being. I wanted to put a DSB made up of sugar fine sand in the sump. I  was thinking of attaching PVC to the inlet hose and have the PVC go all of the way around the inside of the barrel with little holes in it pointed towards the sand. Would this diffuse the water enough so that it wouldn't destroy the DSB?
<It probably will. I'm afraid that you'll have to experiment with this. You can always dial down the flow if too disruptive>
Would it provide enough current to prevent dead spots or any other harmful scenarios? If this is a good idea, should I place the pvc on top of the sand or just enough above it for adequate (non-destructive) circulation?
<I think it will work. I'd place the return just above for maximum efficiency>
Almost done:) I have seen some F/O and reef tanks with a little macro algae purposefully planted in there. Some looked like grass the other was green and broad leafed. It looked really nice but should it be done? Or, should all algae's be kept in the fuge?
<Your call. As long as you can manage the growth of the macroalgae, and as long as they don't overrun other sessile life forms, there is no reason not to include macroalgae in the display.>
Last one, I have rinsed my sand with tap water, I had no other type to use, will the sand in my tank now be leaching tap water chemicals in to my tank?
<I suppose that it's possible, but I wouldn't lose sleep over this>
I also have some LR in a 50 gal soon to be F/O that had been setting in fresh water from the tap for 2 mo. It was dead at the time and bleached. I don't know why I didn't think of this before, duh, but are they now leaching these tap elements back in to my salt tank?
<Again, probably not a problem>
There is a lot of emerald green micro algae on them, the snails aren't eating it. I am going to add a fuge in to the system with macro algae, will this eventually remedy the problem, if there is one, with the element leaching. Or will the micro algae growing on it now use up these elements?
<Well, it will grow as long as there is "fuel" to use for it's growth.>
Sorry, I need to buy Phos., ALK., and Calcium test so I can't tell now if that is what is happening. Ammonia:0, Nitrate:0, Nitrite:0, PH: 8.3, Specific gravity: 1.023, temp. 78-80F DSB 5". Or should I just remove these pieces of LR, they are coloring up nicely now, red, purple, lots of green.
<I'd leave it in there at this point>
Ok I'm done, so are my hands. Thank you for your time.
Shauna
<My pleasure, Shauna. Feel free to write any time if you have more questions. Regards, Scott F>

Blame It On The Sand?
Hi all,
<Hey there! Scott F. with you today>
I have a question about my DSB. I had a Cyano outbreak in my tank and was chatting with a friend about it, and he was convinced I needed to remove my DSB. I am not one to have knee-jerk reactions based on one problem so I wanted to get your opinion on the matter. I have a 4" DSB with fine (sugar sized) aragonite I have the turnover on my pre-drilled Oceanic 75gal maxed out, any more turn over and I'm overflowing on to the carpet ;). All of the flow is created by the returns.
I use a manifold system with 3 outputs; no power heads. My friend is convinced that the problems originate form the DSB and the small sections of visible gray areas. Are these gray areas really bad?
<A lot of times, these are simply areas of coralline algae, or perhaps some aggregations of micro-organisms thriving in the layer between the front glass and the sand. Before blaming your DSB, do a thorough set of water tests, and see if there are other factors at work, such as phosphates in source water, etc. Lots of ways to address these, such as aggressive nutrient export mechanisms (protein skimming, etc.). There has been a lot of talk lately on the various internet discussion boards blaming DSBs for all sorts of problems. I'd be patient and stick with the DSB method, myself.>
There are some spots that you can see in the lower parts of the DSB thru the glass. I was wondering if this is a cause for alarm and therefore a misapplication of a DSB on my part or if I should look into other possible solutions like adding a power head (I was really trying to avoid this with my original design; using a manifold.) Please advise, and thanks in advance for all the help.
<I'd look at a variety of factors before blaming the DSB for this bloom. Sometimes, it's as simple as an RO membrane that needs replacement, or a protein skimmer that's not getting the job done. If your DSB has been constructed in accordance with generally accepted techniques, I'd have faith in the organisms residing there, and give it more time to do its job!>
The volunteers at WWM ROCK!
Ryan
<WWM readers ROCK! Regards, Scott F>

Getting In Deep (DSB Question)
Hello Crew,
<Hi there! Scott F. at your service!>
As always, I find this site to be most helpful, and a joy to read.
<And it's a joy for us to bring it to you!>
I have recently been obsessed with reducing the nitrates in my 45G AGA FOWLR tank.  Thanks to this site, and the excellent FAQ's, this past weekend I increased the size of my sand bed from 3 inches to 6. (The initial 3inches of sand is 1-2mm aragonite.)   At that depth, the nitrates remained constant at about 40 ppm.  To increase the DSB size, I added 20 lbs of oolitic sand.  To prevent the oolitic sand from blowing around I added another 10 pounds of 1-2mm aragonite.)  --This took me to a depth of 6 inches. (Give or take a half inch)
<Nice...I'll bet that you'll see a rather quick drop in nitrates once things get going a bit. Of course, this takes into account the fact that your overall husbandry techniques are good, too!>
Now on to the Questions:  Do you think that this was a sound methodology?
<I believe that it is. There are numerous opinions on the merits of deep sand beds, However, I feel that they are a great addition to almost any marine system>
The FAQ's have numerous references about beneficial organisms such as copepods, amphipods, etc which allegedly stir the bed, and prevent it from becoming a 'nutrient sink"  This may seem like a really stupid question, but where do I find such organisms?
<I don't really buy into the "nutrient sink" theories of doom and gloom. Well-maintained deep sand beds have worked for years. As far as creatures to inhabit the sandbed is concerned, my favorite source is Indo-Pacific Sea Farms (www.ipsf.com). They offer a great selection of diversity creatures at good prices. Check 'em out!>
Do they occur naturally?  Can I buy them?  I have nobody in my community to "trade a cup of sand with."
<By all means, do check out IPSF>
More importantly, can the DSB function properly without them?  Please enlighten me.
<A deep sand bed is more dependent upon microbial processes occurring deep within the bed than it is on "surface-dwelling" creatures like amphipods. Many of these animals will come as "hitchhikers" on live rock, and will multiply natural in favorable conditions. Still, it's a great idea to "seed" your DSB with some desirable worms, etc. Again, a source like IPSF can help>
I believe that I read a reference by Mr. Fenner which stated that he didn't siphon the DSB, but rather he stirred it with some sort of stick.  In lieu of gravel sifting bugs, is stirring the substrate a sufficient alternative?  
<Yep...and don't disturb the bed deeper than say one inch or so, or you can disrupt the very processes that you're trying to foster>
How long to you think that it will take to see an appreciable drop in nitrates?
<Weeks...maybe less. You'll be pleasantly surprised!>
As always, I appreciate any assistance you can provide.
Richard
<Our pleasure, Richard! Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>
45G FOWLR
6" DSB
23.25 LBS Live Rock
1 Magnum 350 Dedicated Mechanical Filtration
1 Magnum 350 Dedicated Chemical Filtration (Granular Activated Carbon,
Phosphate/Silicate magnate)
2 Hagen Aquaclear powerheads for circulation
2 Penguin 1140 Powerheads for surface agitation
1 Marineland Penguin 170 BioWheel filter.
PH 8.09
Temp 76.4
Ammonia 0.06ppm
Nitrate: 0.0ppm
Nitrate: 44ppm
Alkalinity 5.0 Meq/l
Phosphate 0.01ppm
Silicate 0.0ppm
Dissolved Oxygen 7.4ppm

DSB and Plenum questions 8/16/04
I set up a DSB in my 22gl reef tank. Why has the system running for 2 months still in high nitrate around 25mg/L.???  My system is set up like just 3" of powder fine sand and live rocks including stocking with soft and hard corals, one yellow tang(2"), one blue
tang(2 1/2"), three clown fish (1/2"), one maroon clown(1"), one purple fire fish and one cleaner shrimp. <Wow!  That's a lot of fish in a 29 gallon tank!  Tangs of any size are too active for such a small tank.  75 gallons is a reasonable minimum, and even a tank that size should only hold one or two.  I suspect that the amount of food you are feeding for all of these fish is a major part of the problem.>
I done water changes 20% every 2 weeks.  My equipments including protein skimmer, 2 powerhead, a chiller, 1 canister filter(1360L/hr) What should I do or just wait until cycled???? <Nitrates will continue to accumulate even after the cycle.  Water changes are rarely effective at controlling nitrates because they are produced so fast.  I would suggest removing the canister filter completely.  If you want to keep the canister, it should be cleaned weekly.  Be cautious of the amount of food you are feeding and consider giving up a couple of the larger more active fishes.  Best Regards.  AdamC.>

Your Book, Deep Sand and Ammonia
Dear Anthony:  I received your and Bob's new book a couple of days ago and found it really informative with beautiful photographs.  I received Hillary's autograph the same day, as well as Alice Waters, and I must say yours was my favorite, nicely inscribed, thank you, thank you.
<Holy cow! what a compliment! And BTW... I was inhaling when I wrote the invocation <G>>
On to my deep sand bed.  The side which gets indirect light from windows is turning really green.  Is this something to be concerned about?  
<Not at all... truly harmless>
I looked at the sand beds in your book and they look similar to me, except mine is getting greener every day.  Any thoughts for me?
<Not much to do short of having a placard on the tank to cover the area of sand depth from light>
Now for the *big* problem.  I am turning you over to Joe, my chemist-type "water man".
<"Hey, Joe... where you goin'... with that gun in your hand?" Yeah, right... like that's the first time anyone has ever sing Jimmy Hendrix to you <G>>
This is Joe.  I've been  purchasing RO water at a water store near our home.  In addition to the reverse osmosis they use carbon filtration but no deionization.  I dump my five gallon plastic buckets of water into a 30+ gallon plastic garbage can and add Instant Ocean salt.  
<Hmmm... hoping that you heat and heavily aerate the water first... if not buffer it>
I've been detecting a low level of ammonia  (0.1 ppm) in all our tanks recently.  I tested the 30 gallon can and have found this level of ammonia also.
<hmmm... very odd. Are you using Nessler's reagent with your test kit? Have you tested against a standard (even using your assumedly ammonia free tap water)?>
I purchased some distilled water, tested for ammonia (none) and added salt.  I immediately tested for ammonia and found none.  
<Doh! I should have read further... :P>
I tested this distilled water salt mix a day later and found this low level of ammonia.  I have tested the purchased RO water for ammonia (none), added salt and a day later have ammonia (again only 0.1 ppm).  
<Bizarro... not sure either how to explain it. May I suggest you present this to our good friend and chemist Randy Holmes-Farley in his forum over at Reefcentral.com? Really great chap>
I have added "Prime" to the water that tested positive for ammonia and the water still shows ammonia.  I've been told that "Prime" will remove the ammonia but the tests will still show an ammonia content.  
<Not sure I believe that to be true/accurate>
I have also been told that chloramines in the water will breakdown to yield ammonia.  
<that part is correct>
The Water Store, where we are purchasing the RO water maintains that their water does not have chloramine.  
<Hmmm... just wondering if you've confirmed the purity of the water now passing through their RO? Test for hardness (should be scary low near zero)>
I am using a twenty minute ammonia test by Nutrafin.  It is difficult to match colors.  The ammonia quantity is definitely not an exact science.
<Correct>
My questions are: Where are we getting the ammonia, from the water or from the salt?  Is this enough ammonia to be concerned about?  
<Unlikely from the salt...wondering if there isn't mild biological faculties at work in your storage vessel. DO test all the same in a new/clean vessel>
PS Anthony:  This water thing has been going on for the last two-three months.  We saw a letter the other day addressed to WWM about this very same thing, and she was advised to shift to the same kind of salt we are using.
<Indeed... Instant Ocean is one of the finest salts around IMO. No worries at all there>
Thank you, Anthony, for expert (as always) advice!
Connie Cavan (and Joe too)
<Best regards to all :) Anthony>

DSB and H2S
Hey Crew, I talked to the owner of my LFS, who is purportedly an expert in marine biology/ichthyology with degrees in both fields.
<heehee... good for him. Now all he needs is a degree in aquarium science which has nothing to do with field biology or ichthyology>
In our conversation, he stated that deep sand beds (and plenums too) should be avoided because without expert attention they will, within 6 to 18 months, go over to producing H2S and obliterate everything in the tank.  
<true in some circumstances... although "expert attention" really is not needed/ Just good common sense and husbandry. We address these issues at great length in our new book Reef Invertebrates:
https://secure.wetwebmedia.com/order_form.jsp  --  http://wetwebfotos.com/store/nma-ri.html >
I have searched the FAQs and forums and have not found anyone who seems to have problems with H2S.  
<very true for most. And my experience with DSB is 10+ years and 48,000 pounds of aragonite sand used for my greenhouse coral farm operation>
I am setting up a 90gal reef in a few weeks (4-5" DSB) and this conversation has me a touch worried.  
<no worries... DSB can be wonderful. I highly recommend them if you are a good aquarist>
What is the prevailing opinion of the WWM crew?  
<any depth of sand can work with proper address>
I have read so much about DSB from so many sources that I am thoroughly confused.  It is my impression that it is necessary to more or less leave the DSB alone physically (save for some sand sifting organisms like Nassarius snails and worms) and just pay close attention to water quality.  Am I off the mark?  
<hmmm... not really. String water flow is crucial for these and all reef aquaria though for good water quality. Critical here>
Is proper DSB maintenance more involved then I think?  
<extremely low maintenance. Our coverage of the topic in the new book is about 25% of the 400 pages total! (on plants & algae, refugiums and live sand)>
Thanks in advance for your advice. Nick
<best regards, Anthony>

The Sandbed-Shaken- Not Stirred?
I've created a DSB in my marine tank.
<Good for you! An excellent technique to reduce or eliminate nitrate continuously and naturally!>
I wonder if I should add any sand shifting (if so which ones? I need some reef safe ones) organisms.
<Personally, I am against the heavy "stirring" of sand, by both the aquarist and sand-dwelling animals. I like to disturb the sand as little as possible. IMO, It's okay to stir the very top layers (no deeper than 1/2"-3/4" or so, just to keep the sand from clumping, but it may not really be necessary if the system is well-maintained. If you are inclined to use "sand-sifting" creatures, I'd limit your "crew" to a few brittle stars. They do a great job at scavenging uneaten food and detritus, and do not overly disturb beneficial processes occurring in the sand bed.>
But then, if they shift sand will that not provide oxygen to the lower layers of sand, so no anaerobic bacteria will grow and therefore no nitrate reduction will occur?
Thank you.
<Well, the argument for as little disturbance to the sand bed as possible holds well here! Over-zealous "maintenance" practices can interrupt the very processes that you are trying so hard to foster! Read a lot more on sand beds in Anthony and Bob's new "Reef Invertebrates" book! God luck and enjoy your system! Regards, Scott F>>

Deep Sand Bed (DSB) discoloration 8/1/03
Hi I have a 120 gal fish and inverts tank.  It crashed 2 mo.s ago and everything died.  
<Yikes... very sorry to hear it>
I have since changed to a 4" DSB and am in the process of
slowly re-stocking.  Is it normal in a DSB for roughly half (lower half) of the DSB to be darker in color than the top half.  
<yes... if the discoloration is only between the glass and the sand (caused by direct and refracted light causing algae just in that visible plane). The discoloration should not be throughout the sand bed... else it is an indication of gross nutrient overload (overfeeding) or inadequate water flow (seek 10-20X tank turnover minimum)>
It seems to be a very clearly defined partition that varies very uniformly with the depth of the sand.  The lower darker half is more light brown to tan colored , whereas the top half is pure white.  
<we have pictures and descriptions of this in our new book "Reef Invertebrates" (Fenner/Calfo)>
The substrate is Caribe sand mostly .5-1mm, ~25% 1-2 mm.  
<I'm honestly not thrilled about mixed grain beds... but with enough water flow and due diligence... it can be managed. Also needs to be 3-4" deep minimum... deeper would be even better>
It seems to be that light does not penetrate to the deeper levels, but I'm not sure.
<you are correct my friend>
Thanks very much. Frank
<always welcome... do check out our coverage of the topic at great length in the new book. Best regards, Anthony>

- Bubbles in the Sand Bed -
Hi Crew - just following-up with the clarification you requested regarding the use of sand sifters in attempting to eliminate sand bubbles and nasty brown color: I notice the bubbles in the sand against the edge of the glass (since that area is immediately visible) but they do appear to be dispersed throughout the sand.  Although I might be wrong, I actually did mean to say SO2 (sulfur dioxide) - not CO2 (as decaying matter produces SO2).
<Doh! My bad.> 
<Most sulfur produced in your sand bed is the result of denitrification; a very beneficial process.>
When I sift through the sand to release the bubbles, <You should leave the sand bed alone and let it do it's thing.> 
A "rotten egg" odor (like that of SO2) is released as well, which clouds the water for a few seconds in the immediate area of release.  I was told, if the sand bed exceeds approximately one inch in depth, SO2 is typically a result.  Is this incorrect?
<I installed a 6" sand bed in my aquarium just for this purpose. In sand beds over 3" oxygen starved pockets develop where bacteria convert nitrate to nitrogen gas. Even though you can smell the sulfur (likely hydrogen sulfide), it is well below a toxic level. Deep sand beds are not dangerous and are extremely beneficial. I suggest you purchase Dr. Shimek's thin paperback Sand Bed Secrets>
Describing the brown color: this appears between the sand and the glass.  It does not appear to be slimy, it is not on the surface of the sand bed and it does not trap bubbles (not itself, but bubbles are trapped within the sand). 
<Sounds like diatoms, it is unlikely that you would ever see sulfur pockets in between the sand and glass because of the oxygen producing bacteria> 
The goby, Nassarius snails, etc. were originally added to eliminate a brown algae (assumed diatom) that began growing on the surface of the sand bed shortly after the tank cycled and I began "normal" durations of light but I do not know if this is the same type of algae (or if it is algae).  The appearance of this brown substance is somewhat like rust is developing between the sand and glass.
<All kinds of algae and stuff likes to grow sandwiched there, I suppose we're missing out on a good time!>
On a positive note, the diamond goby has learned to eat brine shrimp and chopped silversides from a piece of plastic tubing (smart little guy!) <Excellent, now it can make a turnaround!> This has allowed me to provide food to the goby without it being taken by other fish and he appears to be gaining some body mass.  Thank you for all the help!  Greg
<Good luck! -Kevin>

- Scum between the sandbed and the glass, EW! - - Diatomaceous growth -
Crew,  Tying back my last follow-up email to the original question -- now that we have narrowed this rusty appearance between the sand and glass to likely diatom, is there anything I can do to eliminate this ugly stuff? (horseshoe crabs are not working).  It is driving my cleaning-obsessed wife crazy!
<Hehe, unfortunately nothing will really go down and clean that area. Pretty much everyone's sand bed looks like that, but if you want to avoid divorce you could stick some kind of an algae scraper down there to get rid of it. With the amount sand stirring critters in that tank, I'm not worried about disturbing the lower layers. Good luck! -Kevin>
--Greg

Moving/DSB Quandary - 8/19/03
Greetings exalted Crew,
<sorry... just exalted a little there: lots of cabbage Kim chi>
How to move an established DSB? I will be moving into my new place in a month and I'm curious about the best way to move the 4" of aragonite in my 55g.
<in 1/2-1" layers and labeled in order... to be re-installed in the next tank in the same order. A sturdy plastic dustpan works well for this. We are trying to prevent aerobic faculties in the top layers from getting buried in anoxic depths of the next bed/tank>
With all that sand I don't think I will want to carry it down 4 flights of stairs in the tank...
<it would be a risk of breaking a seam on the tank even if you could or were willing>
By scooping it out and disturbing it am I running a risk of something more serious than just losing some nitrification abilities for a while?
<not at all if the bed was not neglected. You'll be able to confirm that by smell or no. If the tank lacked water flow or had a nutrient export deficiency, the bed will be foul once you dig in. I suspect the bed will be remarkably clean once you bite in>
I am considering getting a larger tank if the wallet allows, any pointers here?  Thanks mucho, y'all are always a big help and an asset to the hobby!  E
<best regards - A>

Sand Bed Question
>Howdy Crew,  
>>Greetings.  Marina tonight.
>I sent in this question last week but I didn't get a reply, so here it is again.  
>>Persistence is key.  With the Sobig virus we've been FLOODED.  Apologies.
>Sorry if you get a double post in case the other one appears.  
>>No worries.
>I will be moving 90G Acrylic Tank with 4" DSB to a new location, a special "fish room" inside the wall, only see the front panel of the tank from the living room.  I plan to drain the tank, move the rock, fish, and corals, but leave the DSB in there.  
>>Ooooo... scary proposition, even for an acrylic tank.
>I will then move the tank up to the opening in the wall, get it so that the top of the stand matches the top of the new stand/location, push the stand up against the wall, then slide the tank from one stand to the other.  I assume this should be okay, no stress to the tank.  
>>IF (and this is a big "if") you can do it exactly like this, with no "catching", torqueing, or stress placed on seams/sides, then we can only keep our fingers crossed.  Naturally, you understand that we cannot recommend anyone do this, though.
>My question is this:  how long can the sand bed be left without being submerged under water?  I plan to add another bulkhead or two, so it may be an hour or so before I add the water back.
>>I would think that as long as it's kept somewhat wet (more than just damp) it would suffer little.
>Is this too much time?  If so, could I add a little water, just enough to be an inch or two above the top of the sand bed, then run a powerhead to help aerate the water?  
>>I wouldn't worry about any more water than what JUST covers the sand.  Also, wouldn't worry about a powerhead, as you'll have an ENORMOUS surface area to volume ratio going on there.
>Also, I plan to add some acrylic rods elbowed together forming a matrix of sorts into the sand bed to support the live rock, it's on PVC posts now but I don't care for it.  
>>I've seen pics of this and it looks like quite the neat trick.  Nowhere nearly as unsightly as PVC.
>Will jamming all these pieces of acrylic into the sand disrupt it too much?
>>Very doubtful, just be sure that, assuming the DSB is well-established, there is no mixing of the layers.
>Thanks a bunch, Paul
>>Very best of luck, and here's to several HEFTY friends and much pizza and beer (cola for me, thanks) for their efforts, eh?  Marina

Sand-Sifters 8/25/03
Hello all at WetWeb,
<cheers>
Looking for a good sand-sifter for a DSB.  
<few if any should be needed if you have adequate water flow (10-20X) and aggressive nutrient control>
Don't want to bring in cukes for fear of evisceration but need a good sand-sifter.  What do you recommend?  The Amblygobius phalaena has been recommended, but I want to be certain the fish will thrive.  Would you care to opine?  
<they are outstanding and bulletproof fishes... one of my favorites for this purpose>
72-gallon bow front will be his/her new home.  Already have some Nassarius snails, micro hermits, etc., from IPSF, but need additional sifting.
<Hmmm... in a 72 gall.. with those other sifters already... do consider if your skimmer is working as well as it could (3-5 cups weekly or better)... water changes adequate? (10-25% weekly), etc>
Many thanks, Peggy
<best of luck! Anthony>

Deep Sand Bed Problem 9/1/03
Dear Anthony. It's been a long time (for me!) since I've written to you, but that means I'm doing great with my tanks.  I really enjoy your responses to others and sense sort of a DARK humor lurking within.
<heehee... rather jaded at times from seeing folks that have the means to help themselves and their charges, but simply choose not to do so. Case in point... that ignorant chap last week that simply could not see the error in having well over ten foot worth of fishes at potential (2 sharks, a parrot, grouper, Sweetlips, etc) with only a 120 gallon tank. Heartbreaking at times. Some of them will certainly die due to his lack of empathy and common sense. Its then that my humour takes a dark turn <G>
Anyway, my deep sandbed is about  5-6 inches, and is about 5-6 months old.  I ordered lots of critters and starter kits, etc. (maybe too many) so have a hefty crew under the sand.  
<all good>
I have had problems with brown algae in the past, but that is well under control; however, something seems to be emerging in one area of my sandbed (55 gallon tank) which looks as if something brownish black has been poured on the surface.  It is starting to cover at least 1/3 of the sandbed.  I have been vacuuming it off in the last two water changes, which, because of this, have been 2 days apart.  I see it starting to spread again and am concerned for my fish.  
<hmmm... perhaps a mat forming Cyanobacteria (blue-green, black, maroon all possible). Usually requires stronger water flow to rid it>
How do I take care of this-keep removing it, digging it all out and replacing it? Wouldn't this disturb the sandbed?  
<in this case no... it spreads the algae. Increase water flow and let the skimmer handle the rest>
This is my logical choice but want to check with you. All my water parameters are in normal range and the tank is two years old.  Fish are great and want to keep it that way. My best to you and all! and hope you're having a great Labor Day!
Connie
PS:  Thanks for your remembering I'm a painter when you autographed your book.  Hope sales exceed all expectations and you become famous-er and richer.
<heehee... if we are realistic, we'll count on the former <G>. Lucky if we get the latter, perhaps :) Anthony>

Deep Sand Bed Problem 9/2/03
Dear Anthony:  You were right on regarding Cyanobacteria on my deep sandbed. We had removed one of our power heads and replaced it with a smaller one, as our clown seemed to be having a problem swimming in that current.  We put it back yesterday and it looks as if it is already working.  Thanks for your quick response.
<very welcome... and do simply tee or diffuse the effluent of the pump if necessary. Big turnover in the tank is the goal... laminar flow alone is not necessary>
I am starting to have a problem with Aiptasia, however.  
<alas... a clear sign of a feeding/nutrient problem (excess). Most often from heavy feedings of particulate food... but sometimes just from poor skimming. Limit the food/nutrients and you will limit their growth>
When I inject it with white vinegar it doesn't seem to quite do the trick.  Boiling water kills the rock and the Aiptasia pops out again nearby.  
<all a waste of time and treating the symptom and not the problem>
What would happen if I immersed a live rock in white vinegar - would it kill the live rock as well.  
<no doubt would kill far more good>
I used to have only one; now I have four teeny ones.  Would LOVE to nip this in the bud, but have read Bob's statement, "they'll be baaaack!" Any suggestions??
<Aww... no worries. 4 are not trouble... get some sturdy scissors or poultry shears and bite the rock underneath of them... effectively skinning the polyps off th rock wholly>
Your fan, Connie PS:  Immersing the rock in salt works but also kills the rock.  Bad idea.
<Si, senorina <F> Antonio>

May need to tear down the tank before moving day.
Dear Crew,
<Howdy>
I find myself suddenly moving as a result of my landlady selling the house unexpectedly.  The "big day" is 10/4. So I read all the moving FAQs and the articles, but don't find some of the exact info I'm looking for.   The new landlord/owner of my duplex has already begun major renovation in the downstairs unit (I'm upstairs).  They are rewiring the whole house, which caused a power outage for me upstairs on the circuit which runs the tank and my sump overflowed (thank god I was home)... you get the picture.   I anticipate power interruptions now on a regular basis until I'm gone.  Here's my question -- I read Anthony's post (last