System set up 1/1/04
Hello
<Hi Martin.  Happy New Year!>
I am currently setting up a marine system and intend to use a DSB, the display tank is 60"x24" highx19" deep with a sump 48"x15"x15". I intend to make the DSB 5-6" deep
<Sounds like a nice system and an appropriately deep bed.>
my questions are can I seed and mature the DSB before connection in to the main tank. then add live rock to the main tank.
<IMO, the best way to seed the bed is with the live rock itself.  A lot of critters will migrate from the rock to the sand.  This is especially true if you get good quality rock that has not been overly processed.  Another reason to add the live rock first is that without it, the system will be too "sterile" and there will not be any food or diversity of habitat for the critters to exploit.>
i have not seen anywhere a detailed procedure for setting up a system with a DBS. can you please help ?
<Generally, it is simplest and most effective to add the sand, fill the tank with salt water and then add the rock and some water movement devices (can be through the sump, or just powerheads).  Once cycling is complete and things have stabilized, add additional critters to "seed" the bed.  It is also ideal to let the tank go fish free for a couple more weeks while adding small amounts of food to feed all of the critters that you want to grow.  When adding rock, do be sure that it is placed so that it won't topple of the sand shifts.  Also, I put as little rock in to or in contact with the sand as possible, even going so far as using PVC pipe sections as "legs" to support the rock.  This prevents "dead spots" of no water movement, leaves more sand area exposed and gives you more for your money on live rock.  Also ask around in your local aquarium club or other aquarists and see what folks are happy with and unhappy with to help guide your set up.>
best regards. Martin
<Good luck, and let us know if you have any other questions.  Adam>

Startin' With Sand...
Hello, Crew!
<Hello there! Scott F. with you!>
I found your articles on a DSB interesting, and I think I am sold on it for my new 120 gal tank.
<It's a great methodology if assembled right>
My question is, in a new tank I will shoot for a 4" depth. Can I add dry oolitic sugar sized sand (dead) with some CaribSea Kick Start live sand to start?
<Sure. Better yet-you could use one of the "kits" offered by Indo-Pacific Sea Farms or Inland Aquatics to help seed the tank with beneficial micro and macrofauna...>
Also, is it best to add it first to my after the water is in, circulate it till it clears up then add my live rock?
<That's the way I'd do it>
If so, should the live rock be fully cured in a separate trash can before I add it to the tank?
<Well, I prefer to cure the live rock in a separate container or aquarium before adding it to the display tank>
As always, Thanks for all your help in getting to where I am now.
<And I hope you can keep going beyond that, too! We'll be there for you! Good luck! Regards, Scott

Starting' With Sand (Cont'd.)
Thanks for the quick reply! Deeply appreciated.
<You're quite welcome!>
When you suggested an activator for my dead oolitic sand did you mean the (Surfzone live sand activator by Indo-Pacific Sea Farms) to kick start?
<Yep- that's a great way to seed a sand bed. The cool thing is that Gerald (Heslinga), Indo Pacific's owner, always seems to throw in some "extras" in every order...A great place to order "diversity" animals from! Have fun! Regards, Scott F.>

Working With Sand
Dear WWM Crew,
<Scott F. here today>
Thank you for your reply the last time regarding the DSB critters. I have one last question to ask the master aquarists :) My DSB in sump has no lighting and I have no intention lighting it up, I'm merely gonna to seed the sand bed with pods and critters using live rocks. And then I'm going to dump in a sea cucumber to handle the detritus build-up on the sand surface. I'm also thinking of removing the filter floss in the chamber before the DSB to allow all the particles to settle in the DSB to feed whatever's gonna live there. What do you think of this setup? any recommendations? Thank you for your time :)
Cheers, Alan
<Sounds just fine to me! Regards, Scott F>

Detritivores and DSB Questions 4/19/04
Hi Crews,
<Hi-dee ho!>
You guys have the World's no. 1 reef site !!!
<Danke, Grazie, Merci... rock on my brother>
Didn't bother you guys for a month or so, but unfortunately I have to do it again this time. I have a male CBS (Stenopus hispidus) in a 30 G (2' x 1.5' base). I have read many sites and received conflicting opinions.
<republican versus democrat?>
1. Is it reef safe, potentially not reef safe, or completely not reef safe?
<potentially not reef safe>
2. It does but isn't too keen on eating poops on the sand bed. I'm thinking of exchanging it to a skunk cleaner shrimp, will it help reducing the poops on the floor?
<neither shrimp eats detritus or feces>
And how many can I place in such a small tank (I don't mind feeding them though, I have only 2 Ocellaris clowns and a blue velvet damsel)?
<these are purely ornamental shrimp and serve little utilitarian purpose. Common serpent starfish would be better here>
3. What other reef safe and non aggressive detritivore/scavenger can I put in there?
<the list is long... and you need to first identify what component you are trying to manipulate or export before we can find a creature to help you do it. Is you target diatom algae, Cyanobacteria, filamentous algae, solid matter (this should not be so... more water flow needed if you see such particulates), etc>
4. From the Ron Shimek's site it says DSB needs to have micro-crustaceans moving in the sand bed to function properly, I started of with entirely dead sand, does these critters comes with live rocks?
<some yes... but seeding your tank with handfuls of live sand from other healthy tanks (stores, club members, friends, etc) will be very beneficial>
If yes will they migrate to the sand beds?
<yes>
If I were to collect some sand from the beach will I get those critters?
<I cannot say... I have no idea what beach on the planet you live near... if this is not a tropical beach, then no... bad idea. If it is a tropical beach, you still have to quarantine it like your fishes, corals, live rock, etc for 4 weeks minimum to prevent the introduction of a pest, predator or disease>
Thanks so much guys. :-) Wid
<best regards, Anthony>

Detritivores and DSB Questions 4/20/04
Hi Anthony,
<cheers, my friend>
That was lightning fast.
<that's what she said... er, wait a minute.. you were referring to my e-mail reply. Gotcha. Always welcome :) >
Thanks for the answers on the shrimps, I am enlightened.  Unfortunately I am all alone and I can't even get live sand from LFS here.
<no worries... much of the desirable microfauna will migrate from live rock>
1. How do I quarantine beach sand? Does it mean that after I put the sand in saltwater premix for 4 weeks all parasites and diseases will die off and it will be safe?
<essentially yes, they will die without a host by 4 weeks time>
2. I've seen some brown coloured spiny brittle stars in my LFS about a foot long across, are these the most feared green Green Brittle Star (from the WWM site some of them appeared brown to me)? From the WWM web page on brittle stars there isn't any other species mentioned that will reach this size. I live in Singapore and what we see in the LFS are usually from the indo pacific region around here. Thanks again :-) Wid
<without a picture of your starfish, I cannot say my friend... it would be pure guesswork. But there are many books and web pages with pictures of the predatory Ophiuroid O. incrassata species. Do look and compare yourself... they are quite distinct animals. Best of luck, Anthony>

Converting to DSB
>Dear Zen masters of the zoosphere:
>>Whoa.. how very.. "anime".  Greetings, grasshoppah.  
>I'm a newbie with a 9-wk old 30 gal. glass tank, 304 Fluval w/ bioballs,
PolyFilter, and phosphate traps, Seaclone skimmer, 96 w. combo fluorescent.  Current inhabitants include 3 damsels (1-1/2"), 2 perculas (2"), and 1 yellow tang (3").  All fish are doing very well and I don't intend adding any more.  I have one polyp that is dying due to algae overgrowth (I'm trying to bring it back through periodic cleaning), and a couple of pieces of so-called "live rock" purchased from my LFS, which actually turned out to be clumps of coral with algae on them.
>>Oof, you need some good live rock.  Also, 9 weeks is a bit soon for a noob as yourself to be housing inverts just yet.  Need to let things settle down a bit, first.
>All vitals seem good-- pH 8.3, sg 1.023-4, NH3 0, N02 0, N03 10 ppm-- except Ca (350 mg/L).
>>You're not housing any stonies, and a range of 350-400 is certainly acceptable in such a situation.  You don't really want it significantly higher than 400 unless you have high calcium demands in the system.
>Anyhow, here's my problem:  I want to establish a reef tank and add inverts.  I've had tremendous algae blooms which I am starting to get under control.
My substrate is ~ 1" crushed coral.  I'm thinking a comprehensive solution to my algae/calcium/biodiversity problem would be to add a 4" DSB using Southdown (now Oldcastle) Tropical Playsand, and then seeding it with the critter pack/macroalgae from IPSF.  Does this sound like a good strategy?
>>It does, but honestly at this point I would FIRST spend the time and money on the best quality live rock I could get a hold of.  Once you have *that*, you can install the DSB, maybe some macroalgae, and not worry about buying the critter pack (unless you really want to).
>If so, my questions to you are: 1.) the sandbags say Caribbean, sterilized, silicate free, and then down at the bottom "not recommended for aquarium use."  Is this just a sop to the aquarium sand mfrs. or are you aware of any deterrent additive they've put in the sand?
>>No deterrent, just a CYA kind of situation.  Silicate isn't going to cause much trouble anyway, but is sharp-edged, and many critters aren't appreciative.  It also does nothing to help with Ca levels or alkalinity.  
>2.) Placement: reading through your site I've seen recommendations for placing the sand directly in the tank, and, conversely, removing all stock and H20 and then placing the sand.  I really don't like option 2-- more work and more stress on fish IMHO.  But what do you think?  
>>Wet the sand, and either make a "director" with PVC tubing, or just load it up into a net or cup and gently pour where you want it.  Be prepared for the cloudiness, can last up to two weeks easily.  Have a turkey baster on hand to blow it off any inverts (though you're not quite ready for them).
>3.) I've had good success in our freshwater tank maintaining a 2" river sand bed covered with a coarser aggregate that allows for periodic vacuuming.  Would it be a good idea to remove the crushed coral, place the sand, and then place the coral back on top as a covering layer, or just go with the sand, or (as I saw in another post on your site), place the sand on top of the coral and let it sift through gradually?
>>Ah, definitely, just let it migrate.
>4.)) Finally-- how long after I add the sand should I wait before adding the critter pack?  
>>I'd wait till the cloudiness goes away, but then again, as I said before, I'd buy the live rock before installing the DSB.  That's where the real value is, in my honest opinion, and it will provide you with what you seek much more ably.. is that a word?  In any event, it will provide the biodiversity you seek and then some.  
>Many thanks.  Wyatt Evans, Washington NJ.
>>Many welcomes, hope this has helped.  Marina

Getting In Deep (DSB Question)
Hello Crew,
<Hi there! Scott F. at your service!>
As always, I find this site to be most helpful, and a joy to read.
<And it's a joy for us to bring it to you!>
I have recently been obsessed with reducing the nitrates in my 45G AGA FOWLR tank.  Thanks to this site, and the excellent FAQ's, this past weekend I increased the size of my sand bed from 3 inches to 6. (The initial 3inches of sand is 1-2mm aragonite.)   At that depth, the nitrates remained constant at about 40 ppm.  To increase the DSB size, I added 20 lbs of oolitic sand.  To prevent the oolitic sand from blowing around I added another 10 pounds of 1-2mm aragonite.)  --This took me to a depth of 6 inches. (Give or take a half inch)
<Nice...I'll bet that you'll see a rather quick drop in nitrates once things get going a bit. Of course, this takes into account the fact that your overall husbandry techniques are good, too!>
Now on to the Questions:  Do you think that this was a sound methodology?
<I believe that it is. There are numerous opinions on the merits of deep sand beds, However, I feel that they are a great addition to almost any marine system>
The FAQ's have numerous references about beneficial organisms such as copepods, amphipods, etc which allegedly stir the bed, and prevent it from becoming a 'nutrient sink"  This may seem like a really stupid question, but where do I find such organisms?
<I don't really buy into the "nutrient sink" theories of doom and gloom. Well-maintained deep sand beds have worked for years. As far as creatures to inhabit the sandbed is concerned, my favorite source is Indo-Pacific Sea Farms (www.ipsf.com). They offer a great selection of diversity creatures at good prices. Check 'em out!>
Do they occur naturally?  Can I buy them?  I have nobody in my community to "trade a cup of sand with."
<By all means, do check out IPSF>
More importantly, can the DSB function properly without them?  Please enlighten me.
<A deep sand bed is more dependent upon microbial processes occurring deep within the bed than it is on "surface-dwelling" creatures like amphipods. Many of these animals will come as "hitchhikers" on live rock, and will multiply natural in favorable conditions. Still, it's a great idea to "seed" your DSB with some desirable worms, etc. Again, a source like IPSF can help>
I believe that I read a reference by Mr. Fenner which stated that he didn't siphon the DSB, but rather he stirred it with some sort of stick.  In lieu of gravel sifting bugs, is stirring the substrate a sufficient alternative?  
<Yep...and don't disturb the bed deeper than say one inch or so, or you can disrupt the very processes that you're trying to foster>
How long to you think that it will take to see an appreciable drop in nitrates?
<Weeks...maybe less. You'll be pleasantly surprised!>
As always, I appreciate any assistance you can provide.
Richard
<Our pleasure, Richard! Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>
45G FOWLR
6" DSB
23.25 LBS Live Rock
1 Magnum 350 Dedicated Mechanical Filtration
1 Magnum 350 Dedicated Chemical Filtration (Granular Activated Carbon,
Phosphate/Silicate magnate)
2 Hagen Aquaclear powerheads for circulation
2 Penguin 1140 Powerheads for surface agitation
1 Marineland Penguin 170 BioWheel filter.
PH 8.09
Temp 76.4
Ammonia 0.06ppm
Nitrate: 0.0ppm
Nitrate: 44ppm
Alkalinity 5.0 Meq/l
Phosphate 0.01ppm
Silicate 0.0ppm
Dissolved Oxygen 7.4ppm

Deep Sand Bed and Aiptasia Control
Hi Don,
Thanks for your help.
I did increase the deep of my Sand Bed. Right now is like 3 1/2". I did wrong the calculations to have 4+". Later I will increase a little bit more to have what you suggested.
<3.5" is OK. I would not worry about it and add more later as you can>
When I did the 50% water change, I vacuumed the existing Sand as much as I could and I discover that there are a lot of worms. These guys are like 1 or 2" long. Some of them are very thin but other are a little bit wide with a lot of very small arms, live the serpent star arm. The color of the worms is like pink. Is this a pest that I have to get rid of? Or these guys are part of the desirable fauna?
<I don't get too excited about worms like this as they will help keep the sand stirred>
I read the article regarding Aiptasia and the Q&A. I got king of confused. When it is mentioned to use a hypodermic syringe to directly applied Ca(OH)2, this means inject the liquid or just put the syringe the closest to the Aiptasia and run the liquid trying to spray all the Aiptasia? can this be done inside the main tank? How much of this Ca(OH)2 is needed for each Aiptasia? I read that some one use white vinegar. Is this secure to use this in the main tank?
<Try to get the Kalk into the Aiptasia, which will likely be difficult. If that is not possible, get the solution as near as possible. Turn off all the pumps to allow the tank to settle before application. I have not spoken from anyone who has successfully used vinegar but I have read of decent success. It should take a very small amount of solution to have an affect.>
Also I am going to try with the peppermint shrimps and the Hairy Red Legged. I returned the bicolor to the dealer so the shrimps are save now.
<Excellent to hear>
I hope this is not bothering you too much.
<No worries, it is why we are here! Good luck with your search and destroy mission<G>, Don>
Thanks a lot,
Rodrigo.

Sand-Sifters 8/25/03
Hello all at WetWeb,
<cheers>
Looking for a good sand-sifter for a DSB.  
<few if any should be needed if you have adequate water flow (10-20X) and aggressive nutrient control>
Don't want to bring in cukes for fear of evisceration but need a good sand-sifter.  What do you recommend?  The Amblygobius phalaena has been recommended, but I want to be certain the fish will thrive.  Would you care to opine?  
<they are outstanding and bulletproof fishes... one of my favorites for this purpose>
72-gallon bow front will be his/her new home.  Already have some Nassarius snails, micro hermits, etc., from IPSF, but need additional sifting.
<Hmmm... in a 72 gall.. with those other sifters already... do consider if your skimmer is working as well as it could (3-5 cups weekly or better)... water changes adequate? (10-25% weekly), etc>
Many thanks, Peggy
<best of luck! Anthony>

Deep Sand Beds II
<Cheers, Mitch>
Please forgive me for asking, but I just want to be crystal clear about the DSB. If I have no live rock, the plain ole fine sand will become "live" from the bacteria that populate the water, right?
<exactly... and inevitable. Although this sand will not develop microcrustaceans or larger macrofauna without a seed from live rock and or some live sand (wild), it will still become very active biologically with nitrate reducing bacteria>
And, even though the DSBs that I am proposing are small in size, they should have an impact in reducing nitrates, correct?
<yes... correct. The sand depth is most important here (over 3" and over 5" is best)>
Happy Holidays! Mitch
<to you in kind my friend. Anthony>

Re: DSB livestock
Hello one and all,
In reading about DSBs I see references to “worms and pods” that should be populating it… well where do you get these critters?  I have live rock –but how do I know any made it in on these (if they’re normally introduced as hitchhikers that is)  I just want to make sure my DSB functions as it should.
<You can go one of two general routes: either supplying starter cultures of these animals from purchasing them direct (like from IPSF, Inland Aquatics...) or allowing your live rock to populate the substrate. I don't encourage buying "some live sand" in a bag to do this. Bob Fenner>
Many thanks
DGG

Re: DSB livestock
Bob:
Whew!  $60 for the detritivore kit!  Sometimes I think it would be cheaper to raise white tigers....
<Me too... how about checking with other hobbyists in your area to see if one will "give you a scoop" of their populated substrate? Maybe a club, local fish store... Bob Fenner>
DGG

Stirring The Sandbed
Good evening every one
<Hi there! Scott F. with you today!>
I have a couple of questions about maintenance of my new 4 inch sandbed.  I perused your FAQs and got confused. I could swear Bob said to use a wooden dowel and punch holes and gently stir once a month - all the way to the bottom of the sandbed. I'm pretty sure Anthony said to do this, but only to the top 1 inch.  Is there a consensus here?  I am not a scientist but want my sandbed to work.  I currently have my old crushed coral substrate on top of the sandbed in mesh bags to seed it, plus my live rock.
<If you're working on developing a true "deep sand bed" (I think that Bob's reference was to a "fish only" setup with a more shallow substrate...), I'd keep my stirring limited to the top 1/2 inch to 1 inch, to avoid disrupting the denitrification processes that you're trying to foster. To be honest, I really don't stir my DSB at all. You may want to utilize the services of a brittle star or two to do it naturally for you, without excessively disturbing the sand bed>
I read an article today saying that I should seed it with a kit (rotifers, etc.)  Is this correct?
<There are a number of e-tailers that offer "starter kits" of appropriate sandbed animals. My favorite source is Indo Pacific Sea Farms in Kona, and other folks swear by Inland Aquatics, or other firms. Most of these kits contain beneficial worms, snails, bacteria, and other useful creatures to help "jump start" your sandbed. Do some searching on the net for some good sources.>
Also, I had lavender/purple algae all over the sides of my tank and in the substrate.  I left it on the sides when I cleaned the tank, but it is vanishing fast.  Why is this?  And will it come back?  I have plenty of it on my rocks, don't want to lose all of it.  Can you explain?
<Well, if the lavender/purple stuff is coralline algae, then you will need to maintain proper calcium/magnesium/alkalinity levels to keep it going. If it is a Cyanobacteria (a nuisance algae), then you don't want it back! Do a little reading on the WWM site, using the Google search feature to get more information on exactly what kinds of algae you are seeing>
A note to Anthony:  I took your advice and went through all the crabs.  Just have six red-legs now, along with snails. I will watch them carefully, and if I lose any more shrooms they will get fired.
<I'm sure Anthony will be stoked to hear that!>
I also got a new Remora skimmer, and wow, what a difference.
<It's an outstanding skimmer, and really will do a great job for you! Glad to hear that it's working so well for you!>
Thank you all so much for your continuing support  I have been doing this for a little over a year now and have come a long way.  It is a very rewarding "hobby" (more like "addiction". And it would not have been possible without your continued support and advice. Connie
<Connie, we are so happy to be able to be of assistance for you! Sharing experiences and growing together in the hobby is what this site is all about! Keep growing in the hobby, and feel free to call on us if you need any additional assistance! Good luck! Regards, Scott F>

Mixing Up A New Substrate>
I haven't bugged you guys in a while - so I thought I was about due.
<Never a bother! This is what we do! Scott F. cruisin' on the laptop tonight>
I am moving next week and thought it would be a great opportunity to replace my 5 year old 40g FOWLR with a new 45 with a brace since my old 40 has a few chips out of a corner and is bowing too much for comfort.
<I hear ya! Good idea>
I know it'd be nicer to take the opportunity to upgrade to a larger tank but I am a poor law student and the 45 with same dimensions will still fit my stand and PC fixture (and the brace will be added comfort).  I am also going to build a sump/fuge. I plan on putting a DSB in the fuge with some macro - along with my skimmer and heater. In my current 40 I have about 4" of crushed coral that is full of pods and spaghetti worms that have developed over the years and I don't want to lose all that life when I switch tanks because I'm going with sand in the new tank (less than 1/2"). Can I put the old crushed coral in my fuge with the DSB? on top of the DSB? under the DSB? mixed with the DSB? Which combination would work best - or am I better off just sticking 6" of Southdown in there alone with some macro and LR rubble, let new life grow, and pitch the crushed coral (and all that is within it)?
<Well, there are a lot of schools of thought about DSBs. A larger particle size is very good for copepods and other larger benthic organisms. Typically, many worm species do not do well in crushed coral substrates, so you're ahead of the curve here! If you are looking to a DSB for denitrification purposes, I'd stick to a fine oolithic sand at 4-6 inches of depth. I agree- why waste all of the life forms that have reproduced so fruitfully over the years, so I think that I'd go with a relatively shallow layer of the crushed coral in the 'fuge, and add a 4-6 inch DSB in the display, if you can handle that. Otherwise, your plan of "seeding" the other sand isn't such a bad idea. There is no absolute rule as to how to do things here...>
Secondly, believe it or not, I have a UGF under my crushed coral (at the insistence of my LFS - although I'm sure it didn't hurt). I have not cleaned under it since I put it there almost 5 years ago. I can only imagine the sludge that will be there when I tear down the tank. Would that "sludge" be of use in a sump under the sand?
<Well, the organic material that accumulated under the UGF plate is probably best left out of the system. The potential for a large influx of undesirable substances, such as hydrogen sulfide, nitrates, etc. is too great to ignore. I'd just seed the new substrate with some of the old stuff...Should do the trick>
Sorry for the long email for short questions . . . THANKS.
<Good luck with your plans! I'm sure that it'll work well for you! Regards, Scott F>

Fighting conch vs. DSB - Strombus alatus 6/22/03
Hey Gang! shouting "howdy" from Denver!
<right back atcha Tex!>
Anthony, the LFS sold me a fighting conch after I asked for something to keep a sand bed stirred up. The little conch disappeared under the sand. Did the LFS sell me a good DSB critter or?
<perhaps... this Strombus species grows medium large (4-5"... or 10+ cm) and is rather clumsy in the reef. Like all Strombids, they do not fare well in tanks with a lot of rock and need enormous amounts of deep live sand to survive long term (say 100 gall mostly sand 6"+ for lifetime). They eat both algae and meaty fare... rarely if even bother cnidarians and are fairly good at aerating sand>
They said it would get about the size of my fist, but would take quite a while for it to get there.
<agreed>
Also, I got a great deal ($45) on another 70 gallon tank with a double iron stand, while I've been thinking 'bout a lion fish to put in there, I've also been wondering if it would be overkill to put the 70 gallon reef display over the 70 gallon, if I turned it into fuge/sump.
<actually sounds cool for stability if the fish 70 is not overfed... and lions are large but infrequent feeders. Could work nicely>
Having a great day & hope you are as well! Stormbringer
<to you in kind my friend. Anthony>

Re: Live Sand Bed 7/5/03
Anthony,
<cheers, my friend>
Thanks for the info on the LSB and your usual prompt response.
<always welcome :) >
Still can't believe you guys respond as quickly as you do--and today's even a holiday! Any ideas as to where one might locate large quantities of the sugar-fine aragonite?  
<Caribbean white child's play sand from the DIY store (Home Depot or the like) is really quite fine. Perhaps you've heard of the SouthDown brand on the message boards?>
Locals only seem to carry the SeaFlor.  
<Hmmm... do browse the online catalogs for brands that carry what you like (like CaribSea)... then contact the mfg for the closest dealer to you... let them work a little for your money ;) >
Also, any length of time to wait before adding the sand stirrers, live sand, to the new substrate?
<Hard to say... perhaps 6 months or more... especially for the sea cucumbers>
Mix in live sand or simply add to top of bed?
<Simply dump on top... and do resist predaceous fishes for many months. Let the DSB establish well first>
Thx again.
<Kind regards, Anthony>

Brittle Star, freshwater/marine algae, euryhaline sea minkees
Hi, Bob and experts,
<<And hello to you...>>
I just brought two brittle stars and I would like to know whether is it safe to keep in a DSB ? One is a Banded Serpent Star (Ophiolepis superba) and one is normal brittle star (Ophiocoma sp). Both are about 3-4 inch big. <<As long as they aren't green brittle stars [these can be predatory] you should be all set. These seastars really don't do much below the surface of the sandbed.>>
2. Just curious to know whether a fresh water algae (seaweed) is able to grow in salt water ? <<No, I don't think so... different osmotic balance required in cell walls, etc.>>
3. One last thing, I planning to keep brine shrimp. Wonder I will stay alive in saltwater? <<You mean like Sea Monkeys? No, they need true brine.>> and if yes, can I add those stuff into my reef tank after it hatched? <<You could add it like food, but I wouldn't add these as inhabitants. The resulting die-off could spell disaster.>>
Thanks
Regards
Danny
<<Cheers, J -- >>

Debate... (Deep Sand Beds...)
Hi Bob...
Thought I'd get your opinion on something that seems to be of some debate on the http://wwwsaltwaterfish.com message board.
<Okay>
The deep sand bed. How deep? 
<A few to several inches in most hobbyist set-ups... depending on grade, composition/make up, how spherical, desire of use... chemical, habitat...>
Sand sifters or no sand sifters? 
<I say with in most cases>
The debate is about the bacteria that exist within the DSB that help eliminate nitrate levels. Some say that sand sifters are good and help mix things up...others say that sand sifters disturb the colonies of bacteria that need an "oxygen less" atmosphere to survive. The anti-sand sifters also claim that disturbing the DSB might release toxins into the tank. Do you have an "official opinion" that I could share with this group?
<Yes... that all these statements are valid within degrees... most all erstwhile sand sifters only move about the upper centimeter or so of material... no big deal... and as some folks state/d of benefit as well>
Also, thanks for tipping me toward the CPR site to look at their HOT refugiums. I'll be getting one of those in the next couple of months.
<Good designs... the owner of the company (Suk Kim) goes to a lot of the hobby venues (WMC, MACNA...) and listens carefully to what folks are looking for, having troubles with... in designing, offering new products. Smart>
Still have to put the rock in the tank...it's almost done cycling.
Hopefully all levels will be 0 this weekend so I can build my reef. The empty tank is getting a little dull as far as decor in the living room :-)
I've also recommend the CPR refugiums to others on the board mentioned above. Since I can't really give my own advice yet, I will have to site yours. Seems to be a hot topic.
<Good to find folks thinking, debating.>
As always, your advice and guidance are appreciated!
Kind regards,
Misty Johnson
<Be chatting. Bob Fenner>

Re: sandbed question
Hello again,
I have a couple of follow-up questions.
1. For future reference, when you have a sandbed in a separate sump is there a certain size that is appropriate for a 100gal tank?
<Mmm, well, the bigger the better... no less than a fifth the volume of the main tank...>
Do suggest adding one of those sand starter kits like the one from inland aquatics that has the worms and other stuff?
<Generally not... enough critters come in/on the live rock to adequately inoculate the new substrate>
Do you have to feed the sandbed since it is separate, because I thought the worms and other stuff in the live sand eat the detritus. Do you add sand sifters?
<No to both... enough food of different sorts will find its way there... and almost never a need for sand sifters>
2. For now, do you know if those fluidized filters actually work and if they are a benefit?
<Do work... but almost never needed... You don't want to overdrive nitrification... such technology (FB) is for high and variably bio-loaded systems... like wholesalers, aquaculture facilities... Bob Fenner>
Thanks again,
Brett

DSB
Hi Bob -
I converted my crushed coral substrate to a DSB yesterday in my 120 established tank- used Southdown sand that I seeded with the CC from the existing tank (made balls with nylons).
Two days later, the water is still cloudy. Is this normal?
<Yes>
How long will it take to settle?
<A few days to a week or so>
I have a sand stirrer/detritivore kit coming to me on Wednesday, and plan to add it after the lights go off - any further suggestions?
Robb
<Mmm, would have been better to add these organisms a week or so later. Can you accommodate them elsewhere? Bob Fenner>

Wrasse vs. DSB
sorry to email you directly...I can't for the life of me figure out how to post a question on wet web media for you.
<when you like, you can go here http://wetwebfotos.com/talk/ and click on a folder/topic of interest. Then once on that folder, click the link near the top of the page that says "post new topic". Simply type in your question and when finished click "post message">
is there any truth that a fairy wrasse would be harmful to a DSB system in any way? i.e.: eating pods or other necessary inhabitants or otherwise causing havoc? 
<definitely not "causing havoc". If so by that measure, then clownfish, damsels, pseudochromids and many other popular fish are far worse. Yes, the fairy wrasses will eat zooplankton: but so will corals and most other fishes, yet we are keeping them from reef tank either <smile>. Truth be told, most reef fishes are too much of a burden for our DSB fauna and that is one of the reasons why a fishless, upstream DSB refugium is so popular (plankton blooms and overflows nightly to feed tank without the main "colony" ever being decimated by fishes>
thank you. dr. drew
<best regards, Anthony Calfo>

DSB
Hi again,
It's regarding DSB. I got sand in my present 4ft tank and intending to add it into the new tank to speed up the process of maturing the tank, however part of the sand is cover with algae.
1) Is your advice to me to add all the sand in my present into the new tank?
<Yes>
2) How to arrange the sands in DSB? 
Bottom - Crushed coral?
Medium - Medium finer sand??
High - Fine sand ?
<I would just use all fine sand.>
I plan on buying some sand sifting sea stars (Astropecten polyacanthus). Is it advisable to have it if I intend to setup a reef tank with little peaceful fish, shrimps and snail.
<No, I do not like to use those starfish.>
3) Is sand sifting sea star reef safe?
<They will not eat corals, but other beneficial life forms.>
4) Will it harm live form or vice versa ?
<They eat many worms and other good creatures.>
Thanks again. Regards, Danny
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Water Changes/DSB Critters - 07/19/05
Hello Eric,
<<Howdy James!>>
Thank you again for your help and advice.  I have listened to you many times in the past and will do so again.
<<Ahh, power <G>...I'll try not to abuse it...>>
At the moment I change 10% of my water a week with natural seawater.
<<Mmm...still using the NSW eh.>>
This amounts to just under 40 gallons.  I have 8 fish around 3 to 5 inches so I am not overstocked.
<<Depends on the fish, but likely so in this case.>>
I also have a very efficient Aquamedic Baby skimmer.
<<Good>>
So do you think I could get away with a 10% change every 2 weeks?
<<I hate to dissuade anyone from 10% weekly water changes if they are already doing them, but give it a try and observe occupants/test for debilitating changes in water chemistry.  Likely a bi-weekly change of 10% will be fine.>>
Here in Cape Town I can get IO salt and Aquamedic salt.  As with many things the salt over here is much more expensive than the USA.
<<Yes...and we still moan about the cost <G>.>>
The pH of our local seawater is 8.6.  So you are right, making my own will be much better.
<<Mmm...pH is fine...my concern is lack of a buffer pool (rapid drop in alkalinity), parasites, disease/pollution...>>
My DSB refugium has been running for a month now.  It has 5 inches of 1-2mm size aragonite.  I can see no life of any kind in there, should there be?
<<Yes, something...even after only a month (algae’s, micro-crustaceans).>>
Should I add anything else?
<<Can you light this 'fuge?  If so I would add some macro algae (Chaetomorpha or Gracilaria).  If not lighting/macro algae, add a couple pieces of live rock to "kick start" your critters.>>
When I go real close to the glass, my Regal Tang comes up to me, then the black part of him completely turns into a bronze/gold colour.  This really impresses my friends.  Why does he do this?
<<I've always found these tangs to be especially "skittish."  I had one in particular that even after 8 years, would "freak out" every time I approached the tank.  The loss of color is a sign of stress/disturbance/mood...the tang is merely reacting to the presence of the "large strange creature" invading its domain.>>
Many Thanks,
James.
<<Always welcome my friend, Eric R.>>