Deep Water Tank... FOWLR stkg. wishes   8/16/07
Hello, I freely admit i don't know jack about saltwater tanks but I was wondering if this setup would work. I have settled on getting a 70 gallon FOWLR type setup and was thinking what type of fish to go with it. I would like a pair of fathead anthias (Serranocirrhitus latus), golden angelfish (centropyge aurantius),
<This Dwarf Angel species is a bit anomalous amongst the genus in needing much larger quarters... a few hundred gallons>
and Colin's angelfish (centropyge colini) or venusta angelfish (Paracentropyge venusta),
<Not easily kept>
2 of the 3 angelfish whichever two would be the better match. I also would like to get a Laboute's fairy wrasse (cirrhilabrus laboutei) and a Jordan's fairy wrasse (cirrhilabrus jordani) or a rhomboid fairy wrasse.
<Best to keep Cirrhilabrus in small haremic groups...>
My final two fish would be a candy Basslet (Liopropoma carmabi)
<Needs quiet arrangements...>
if i can even find one (any suggestions would be appreciated) if not maybe some assessor species the blue or yellow ones, and finally a small group of Catalina gobies.
<... no... cold water animals>
I read in different places that a deepwater setup should be kept in the low 70's which leads me to believe i would have better luck in keeping them (probably wrongly). I would spare no expense on a protein skimmer and other equipment since i have been saving up for this and would employ a refugium. If you think the flasher wrasses would not fit i would replace them with flasher wrasses instead, and the Catalina gobies with neon gobies and clown gobies. Any other suggestions on fish for a deep water setup would be welcomed. thx
<Best for you to keep reading, making lists at this point. Bob Fenner>

Maxed Out? (Stocking Question)... FOWLR – 08/08/07
Hi-
<Hey there! Scott F. with you today!>
I have a question about adding a Flame Angel to my 75 gallon tank. I currently have about 100lbs live rock, two False Percula Clownfish, a small Blue Tang, a small Yellow Tang, a cleaner shrimp and various snails and hermits. I understand the blue tank will need a bigger tank, will
hurdle that when it gets bigger (how long will that take?)
<Well- sooner than you might think...Less than a year, IMO. And this fish gets really large, requiring correspondingly larger quarters. I'd make this a rather urgent priority. And I'd move up to no less than a 6 foot long aquarium of at least 180 gallons. Sorry to be the "buzz kill".>
OK, here is the question I intended to ask. I read
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/centropyge/loricula.htm and my concern is that it recommends the Flame Angel be added last.
<In many situations, the Flame Angel is the "alpha fish", and this will create some potential aggression scenarios-probably not an issue with your stocking list. Also, the aquarium needs to develop the necessary fauna to provide some natural foraging, so adding the fish later give the aquarium a chance to "recruit" these life forms.>
This fish is being sold by another hobbyist for a minimal price, but I want to add (slowly) a few more fish (I would love any suggestion on appropriate additions). Should I snap up this beautiful Flame at a great price ($20), or wait until other fish have been added?
<Gosh- I'm just raining on your parade, huh? Bargain price not withstanding, I really would not add this fish to this aquarium that is near its maximum stocking limit for the near future, IMO. If you are absolutely certain that you are going to be getting a much larger aquarium in the very near future (like within 4-6months or less), then you could chance the addition of the Flame Angel. But I would not add ANY more fishes to this aquarium after that. Period. Aggression and other issues will become huge in this modest sized aquarium.>
Also I read nitrates can be a problem for these fish, I run about 10ppm (working on this as well).
<I would not be overly concerned about 10ppm nitrate, but I would do all that I could to get it as low as possible.>
Your advise and willingness to share is
extremely appreciated. Craig
<My pleasure, Craig. Hope that you make the right call here. Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Adding A Final Fish (Stocking Plan)  8/6/07
Cheers Crew! I have a stocking question for the experts (that means you). Scott F. has been much help in the past answering my stocking questions (and everyone else has been much help answering all of my other questions).
<Call me crazy- but Scott F. back with you again!>
I hope you guys realize what a huge resource WWM is for us. Everyone says that CMA is "the Bible", but I don't do a thing without reviewing this site first.
Enough of the kudos.
<Yeah...Let's get on with it already! LOL>
I have a 110g display with 70 lbs live rock. Filtration is by a wet-dry trickle filter and a Coral Life Super Skimmer. Circulation is with 2 MaxiJet 1200 (295 gph) and my return pump is 1245 gph Little Giant (although I'm sure it's actually much less). I also have a 30g fuge with 3-5" DSB, 5lbs live rock and Chaeto that's on a reverse daylight cycle. Top-off is with RO/DI water. Readings are: 0 ppm for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate; alk hovers between 3.5-4 meq/L; calcium hovers between 350-400ppm.
<Sounds fine.>
Current stock: 1 Brown Combtooth Blenny, 1 Gold Stripe Maroon, 1 Royal Gramma, 1 Sailfin Tang, 5 Hairy Green Mushrooms, 5 Red Mushrooms, 1 Green/Orange Ricordea Mushroom (about to split), 2 small Tree Corals, 1 Sally Lightfoot Crab, 2 Cleaner Shrimps, numerous hermits and snails, and various creatures that came in on the live rock. Everyone gets along well.
<Sounds great!>
I bought a Citron Goby yesterday that will be in QT for 3 weeks.
<Loving this already...ya' hear that, everyone? QUARANTINE!>
My objective, generally, is to keep only small fishes and to keep the bioload light.
<Awesome>
OKAY finally . . . I am reaching the max stocking for my comfort level, but I really want a wrasse to round out my stock. Do you think I have room to add a Filament Fairy Wrasse? My research suggests that this wrasse will not bother my cleaner shrimp (true?). I really like the Canary Wrasse but the ones that come into my LFS are always pretty beat up and I know how delicate these are (they seem to disappear quickly from the LFS . . .).
<Excellent choice. The fish you mention really is not interested in small crustaceans and sessile inverts. As far as the Canary Wrasse is concerned, for the most part they tend to ignore larger shrimp (in my experience), but they will pick at other small crustaceans and snails. I am a big fan of the Canary Wrasse, and just about any species of Halichoeres Wrasse in general. Yes, there is a risk that they will eat your ornamental crustaceans. They are not delicate, in my experience, but they do seem to ship rather poorly, and are often in pretty bad shape by the time they get to your store. With good selection, careful acclimation, and of course, quarantine- they make excellent, long-lived aquarium residents.>
Also, I read that Citron Gobies do well in pairs. Do I also have room for/should I add another Citron Goby?
<You probably could, but you'd be maxed out at that point, IMO. The big problem (no pun intended) is the Sailfin Tang. I love this fish dearly, but they can and do get huge. Also, do keep an eye on that Maroon Clown...He/She may get a bit aggressive with the newcomers.>
Thanks for your help.
Andy Bulgin
<Glad to be of service, Andy! let me know what fish you go with! Regards, Scott F.>

DSB and LR question for a 100gal sump... Upcoming read-a-thons   8/6/07
Hey, guys! It's been a while since my last email. I stopped being a saltwater enthusiast for the last three years (financial reasons). But now I'm back... and will be needing your help as always. Anyways, I'm planning to buy a 100gal main tank w/ a 100gal sump. Currently I have a subadult semicircle angel and a juvenile clown trigger.
<Keep your eye on that trigger... always>
They will be the first residents of my new tank.
<You're overstocked with just one of these already>
If the LFS ever have juveniles of red coral hind grouper, harlequin Sweetlips, emperor angel and Picasso trigger, I'd want to add them to my tank too.
<... Please read re the "Compatibility", Systems of all these on WWM... not mix-able>
Yep, I'd call this tank the "feeding frenzy of messy eaters". Hehe. And WHEN some of em get too big for my tank, like the grouper and Sweetlips, my wife can either cook em or I'll release them back into the sea.
<?>
The triggers and angels stay. Get a 200gal tank when they've outgrown the 100gal? We'll see.
I'll be feeding them chopped shrimp, shellfish, squid and crabs. And for their "greens", I'd feed them roasted seaweed (Nori). My semicircle angel and clown trigger love that stuff. The main tank will be FOWLR. But not so much LR. I don't want them to hide all the time behind the LR. That's why I'd like the main tank to be a little bare, maybe just 20kgs of LR. The bulk of the LR will be in my sump. 50kgs, is that sufficient for my planned bioload?
<This mix won't work period>
It won't house any fish, and I plan to use DSB. My sand will be powder fine white sand. How deep should the DSB be for good NNR for this type of sand?
<Posted on WWM>
I hope I got that right. That's short for Natural Nitrate Reduction, right?
<Yes!>
For the main tank I plan to put no more than 2" of the sand. Will that be ok?
<See WWM...>
Or should I reduce it a bit?
And lastly, I have a spare canister filter, and I'm debating whether to use it on this setup or not. Part of me says I should coz of the way the main tank is plumbed to the sump. The main tank is drained to the sump via PVC pipe in such a way that only the top portion of the main tank gets drained. Leaving the bottom part untouched. I'm thinking the canister filter will do the cleaning of the untouched part. On the other hand, I've read that canister filters are nitrate producing factories. What's your advice on this?
Thanks so much. You guys are great!
Paul
<Keep reading. BobF>

Re: DSB and LR question for a 100gal sump... continuing mis-stocking  8/7/07
Hi, Bob!
Thanks so much for the quick and to the point response.
At first, my main concern was about the DSB and LR, but now you made me realize that's the least of my concerns. It should be livestock compatibility. Wow! Thank heavens for your advise! You have single-handedly prevented a disaster from happening.
So now, I've done some rethinking. Need your advise yet again. I'm planning to put the clown trigger in the sump, and later when a juvenile red coral hind grouper becomes available, I'll put it in there with the trigger.
<I would not likely do this either...>
I've read at WWM that groupers do well with triggers,
<Highly inconsistently... with this species in particular>
and so do medium sized wrasses. Maybe toss in a lunar wrasse later to add some green colors to the sump. As for the main tank, the semicircle angel will be housed there, and for it's tank mates a harlequin Sweetlips and volitans lionfish.
<Again... you need to READ... this is an untenable mis-mix and too much for this volume>
I'd be scratching the emperor angel from my list coz, as per your advise, I did some reading at WWM that two Pomacanthus in the same tank is just asking for trouble.
Hope this setup is better than originally conceived.
Paul
<Enjoy the journey... reading... ahead of possibly making mistakes. BobF>

Fish advice... Much to Research... SW FOWLR stkg.  – 08/01/07
Hi
<Hi LeAnne, Mich here.>
I currently have a 75-gallon tank which has been running six weeks and I currently have a maroon clownfish, a yellow watchman goby and a small white starfish that came on one of my rocks.
<Likely an Asterina star.>
I now currently have 25 lb. of rock but over time am adding more. I am very interested in having a starfish. I've read one of the Fromia might be a good choice. I was wondering if you could give me some advice on which starfish to purchase for a soon to be reef tank and maybe even where a good place to purchase this would be.
<I would recommend staying away from most sea stars. Most sea stars just don't do well in captivity. Their diet is not well understood and these stars often slowly starve to death. More here and related links in blue:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/seastars.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/cav1i4/echinoderms/echinoderms.htm >
I would also like to know if it would be ok to purchase the starfish now.
<I would highly discourage you from this. Might I convince you to try a red brittlestar (Ophioderma squamosissimum)? These fare far better in captivity and are quite beautiful to boot! More here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/brittlestars.htm >
I also have one other question. I am wanting at some time to put in a tang,
<Your tank is on the small side, make sure you research you options before purchasing a tang or any potential addition to your system.>
angelfish, maybe Hawkfish?
<Will eat ornamental shrimp. More here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hawkfish.htm >
Jawfish,
<Are jumpers, and will find the smallest opening to escape from to go carpet surfing. More here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/jawfishe.htm >
later mandarin goby,
<Difficult to feed and often starve in captivity. A refugium is a must for these fish. More here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mandarins.htm >
and pistol shrimp
<With it's symbiotic goby, would be a delightful addition to a peaceful community tank... would not be compatible with a Hawkfish. More here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/pistolshrimps.htm >
also maybe a cleaner shrimp.
<A beneficial addition. More here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hippolytidae.htm >
I was wondering if you could also give me some advice if these fish and shrimp are ok and with the starfish and also what tang or tangs would you recommend.
<Yellow tang (Zebrasoma flavescens) would be a good choice, but there are others. You will need to research. I would recommend you invest in a book titled Marine Fishes by Scott Michael.>
I loved the blue tang but I have read not to get this fish.
<Your tank is too small for a Hippo tang (Paracanthurus hepatus). More here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/paracant.htm >
I have done research,
<And there is much more to learn!>
but I would like your advice also. I wasn't sure how the starfish would be with the two shrimp.
<I would again try to persuade you against the sea star.>
Thanks LeAnne
<Welcome, Mich>

Re: Jawfish help... Much to Research... SW FOWLR stkg – 08/02/07
<Greetings, Mich here.>
I currently have a 75 gallon aquarium set up for reef tank using Carib sea reef grade sand running for six or seven weeks
<A very new system.>
with a yellow watchman goby and a maroon clownfish.
<The latter can be quite pugnacious.>
I eventually plan to have a tang probably yellow (or maybe purple).
<Your tank is on the small side. A yellow (Zebrasoma flavescens) would probably do better in a tank this size than the purple (Zebrasoma xanthurum).
More here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/YellowTang.htm
and here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/z_xanthurum.htm >
Fish I have thought of getting was a six-line wrasse or Royal Gramma (by the way are these two fish compatible),
<Mmm... depends on many factors.>
Banggai cardinal, flame angel,
<Beauties!>
mandarin fish,
<These fish are notoriously difficult to feed and often starve in captivity. A refugium for pod supplementation is a requirement for these fish. More here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mandarins.htm >
and a red reef safe starfish,
<I do hope you mean a red brittle star (Ophioderma squamosissimum) here. These typically do quite well in captivity and are quite beautiful and interesting to watch. Most sea stars i.e. Linckia, Fromia species often slowly starve to death in captivity. I would discourage you from keeping these. More here and related links in blue:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/seastars.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/cav1i4/echinoderms/echinoderms.htm >
cleaner shrimp, and pistol shrimp. I wanted to know if a Jawfish would be ok in the tank especially with the two shrimp.
<Mmm, the pistol shrimp with the Jawfish may present a problem. I have never had a problem with a cleaner shrimp and a Jawfish. Your tank needs to be well covered... and I do mean very well covered as these delightful little fish, one of my personal favorites I might add, seem to be able to find the tiniest hole to escape from to go carpet surfing! Very sad when it happens... trust me on this one. More here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/jawfishe.htm >
Thanks
<Welcome! Mich>

Miniatus Grouper and Eclipse Hogfish compatibility 8/1/07
Greetings to whichever of the fine crew happens to be on question duty when this arrives.
<Howdy>
I am in the process of taking the plunge into a 210 gallon FOWLR after dealing with several smaller tanks for the past year (30 to 90 gallons).??My plumbing diagram is under constant revision due to all the information I am able to glean from your wonderful site, but? I should be getting underway very soon.
<What's with the ? marks?>
I did some hard thinking about livestock for the big tank, and decided on a Miniatus Grouper as the centerpiece.? My LFS got me a beautiful little 4 incher who is currently living in a 65 gallon tank until I get the 210 running and cycled. He's everything you could ask for: bold, beautiful, eating well, and? gets along swimmingly (excuse the pun) with his tankmates. And there we come to my question.
The grouper currently lives with a Green Bird Wrasse, two rather large (5 inch) Sgt Majors, a?rabbitfish which I believe to be S. doliatus (it came in as an 'Assorted Rabbitfish', but thanks to your site I think I have it correctly identified.) and a 4 inch? Eclipse Hogfish (B. mesothorax). (And yes, all of them spent?4 to 6 weeks? in quarantine before living together.)
My hope is to eventually transfer them all to the 210, with the Sgt Majors leading the way to help finish cycling it. They're big enough, and deep bodied enough? that it should be quite some time (if ever) that the grouper will look on them as food. The rabbitfish, whether it's S. doliatus or the similar S. virgatus, should top out somewhere around 10 inches. The Birdwrasse is also? supposed to? ax out around 10-12?inches , and so should be safe from predation.? My concern is the hogfish might remain small enough (and slim enough) to eventually take a trip down the grouper.
Thus far, they've been a decent community, and I'd like to keep them together in the big tank. However, as a fall back position on the hogfish, I have room in my 90 gallon FOWLR when the 65 gets a bit tight for him.
<Ok>
Assuming they all go together into the 210, what order would you suggest introducing them after the Sergeants have finished their job?
Thank you for your time, and for all the help your site has provided to me.
Sincerely
Jerry Stoddard
<I'd place a few at a time, to discount the territoriality of the damsels... the Grouper likely in the last batch... Otherwise, not likely a given order... Do be careful in handling the Siganid... Bob Fenner>

Anthias/bioload and urchins - 7/20/07
I am currently stocking my 72 gallon FOWLR tank my current tankmates are 2 ocellaris clowns, 1 neon goby, 1 blue/green chromis, 1 flame angel (still in QT) 2 cleaner shrimp and various snails and emerald crabs. I will also be buying a 6 line wrasse and royal Gramma. I had intend on getting a school of chromis for my tank but after purchasing 5 they started knocking each other off until only 1 was left. I was thinking about purchasing some anthias but because of the cost and how sensitive they are to water conditions ( I am a newbie to saltwater- tank has been running for 5 months) I was a little leery about purchasing them. I think that I will though as with all the incredible help I receive from the internet has turned a relative newbie into someone secure in running their tank. Anyway I was wondering how many anthias I can purchase without overloading my tank. I know I have to buy 1 male and the rest females. What do you suggest?
I was also interested in purchasing an urchin. I have done some homework on them and I think they should be OK in my tank but what type of urchin would you recommend for my tank. Thanks for the help.
Adam
>>>Hello Adam, Jim here.
Given all the fish you have, and the fact that you will be adding a Royal Gramma and a Sixline wrasse (add the Sixline last) I think you're fully stocked.
My advice, for several reasons, (even though you haven't told me what species of anthias you're looking at) let go of the anthias idea.
Cheers
Jim<<<>And the urchin? RMF<

Upgrading tank, Stocking 7/18/07
Hello crew!
<Hello>
You and your website have been invaluable in my marine education, I hope you don't mind another question from me! <Fire away.>
I recently was able to get a beautiful 72 gallon bowfront to upgrade from my 30 gallon. <Nice> With all this new space I'm not sure what to do with it! I am planning on a FOWLR + Live sand system with a refugium. <OK>
The critters in the 30 gallon will be moved into the 72 gallon and they include 1 Ocellaris Clown, one Coral Beauty Angel, one Royal Dottyback and 2 Peppermint Shrimp.
The only fish I want to add for sure is a Yellow Tang (my husband's request!). The tang won't be added until the tank is mature as your site recommends.
<be aware that you are at the bare minimum sized tank for a yellow tang in my opinion, and may see increased aggression or other behavioral problems depending on the individual fish's personality.>
My question (finally!) is can you please suggest a few species I can look at to add? I'm thinking I will have space for another fish or 2, is that correct? <I would say so, as long as they are not too big.> I don't want to crowd them, I want them to be happy and healthy! <Good>
Thank you for your time!
Barbara
<You could look into a small to medium sized wrasse, perhaps a Hawkfish, although they may have problems with the shrimp, another clown, or something else completely here. Lots of other choices, just be aware you will have a fairly aggressive tank, so stay away from anything too passive.>
<Chris>

Choosing Fish For a FOWLR  7/10/07
Hi,
<Hey there! Scott F. in today!>
I was wondering about stocking my 55 gal FOWLR.
I've read through the articles on your site and I found a couple of fish that are able to be in the tank.
<C'mon- there are more than a couple of fishes suitable for your aquarium, unless you're trying to replicate a deep sea hydrothermal vent biotope or something!>
There has got to be more. LOL anyways, I checked out this link that had the list of fish and it was for a certain season- it was four fish.
<Sounds like you were looking on a "Cooking With Seafood" website or something...LOL>
Anyways, my question is can you answer this with a list of fish I can put in my tank, or link me to one, and maybe mark the ones that you would recommend?
<Wow- that would kind of take the fun out of the whole process! There are literally hundreds of possible choices...Obviously, you want to keep small fishes that don't get all that large. Rather than list all of the thousands of species of fishes that fit this bill, I'll give you a few hints: Gobies, Blennies, Cardinalfish, Assessors, Basslets, Dartfishes, Flasher Wrasses...OK- that should get you started. Use the WWM search features- we have like a gazillion megabytes of information here- search among the families that I mentioned. You're bound to find some fishes that you like.>
Thanks for your help and sorry if I overlooked this information somewhere.
<I'll forgive you! Seriously, I'm not aware of any list of acceptable fishes for various sized aquariums on this site-you just need to roll up your sleeves, break out the popcorn and Thai Iced tea (or whatever you like to drink), park yourself in front of you computer, and get to work doing some research! It's fun!>
By the way love the site and the forums too.
-Jeffery
<We're happy to bring it to you, Jeff! Have fun! Regards, Scott F.>

Stocking, SW, fish, invert.s    6/24/07
Hi, love the site, very useful information, great job.
<Thanks>
I currently have a 90 gallon tank with about 100 lbs. of live rock. The stocking list, for now, is short: 4 inch purple tang, and a 15 inch snowflake eel. I've had the tank for about 5 months and just got over an ich attack,
<Might I ask how you "got over it"? Just to make sure "it" isn't still about>
and am looking to add more in the next few months. My plans are this: 1 bicolor angelfish, 1 red coris wrasse, and 1 niger triggerfish.
<These last two might well become too mean, rambunctious here>
I've been doing research and I'm just about certain these fish will do well together, but I wanted an expert opinion. Is this a good environment for these fish? Will the tank be overstocked?
<Ultimately, yes, with growth>
I also wanted to add a small clean up crew before I add the other fish. I wanted possibly some snails, hermit crabs, and maybe a chocolate chip starfish.
<Mmm, not likely this last... most die... mysteriously, in a short while... See WWM re>
Would these animals be safe with my eel trigger and the coris wrasse? If not, do you have any suggestions?
Thanks so much for your help.
<That you keep reading, making potential wish lists... Bob Fenner>

300 gallon aggressive fish only with live rock.   – 06/19/07
Hello crew!
I plan on setting up a 300 gallon aggressive fish only with live rock aquarium for myself after my fiancé and I move. The aquarium dimensions I am looking at are 72"x 27"x 36".
<I'd prefer (and so will your fishes) that this is L X H X W... that this system is 27 inches tall, not three feet>
The filtration system I am looking at is an LF2-300 wet-dry sump from Lifereef (41"x 13"x 22"), with an in sump VS3-30 protein skimmer (30" tall) rated by Jeff for a 350 gallon set up. I have had great luck with his products and am confident that this set up should work fine for what I am planning. The main system pump I am looking at is a Sequence 5,000-SW (5,000 gph at 0' head, 23' max head),
<A great product, line, co.>
this pump will be floor level with about 6' of head to the top of the aquarium. The skimmer pump will be a Blue Line 30 HD-X (1,110 gph at 0' head, max head 13'), I am currently using this pump on the same skimmer and it is working great. The lighting I am looking at is from Hamilton Technology. The lighting system I was looking at is all power compacts, twelve 65 watt German bulbs half white, half blue.
<I would have far less blue>
This system should produce 780 watts over all. I am debating on the use of a UV sterilizer, but find myself leaning away from it.
<Better by far to buy/use an ozonizer...>
With proper quarantine procedures and setup all the UV sterilizer would actually help with is algae,
<Mmm, no... I must interject>
and with the fairly dim lighting on the tank that should more than likely not be much of an issue anyway right?
<Heee heeeee! You'll learn, are learning...>
The animals I intend to house in this system are;
1 Snowflake Moray Eel
1 Annularis Angelfish
1 Harlequin Tuskfish
1 Lunar "lyretail" Wrasse
1 HumuHumu Triggerfish
1 Auriga Butterflyfish
1Yellow Tang
1 Pacific Blue Tang
1 Orange Shoulder Tang
<Do watch this last... and do consider having a couple to four more Yellow Tangs here... much prettier and more secure in a grouping>
All of these fish would be purchased as Juveniles, quarantined and added over time more than likely the tangs would be first,
<Mmm... not what I would do... the Moray would/will be best placed first, then the Tusk... then maybe the Surgeons>
then the Butterflyfish, the angelfish, the wrasses, the trigger, and the last would be the eel. I figured at their maximum adult size the sum of the length of all of these fish would reach 113.6". Would this tank afford these large fish enough space in your opinion?
<Yes>
I do not intend to put a lot of live rock in the aquarium, just enough to have a nice look and offer niches for the fish to sleep in, and hide in.
<Mmm, do consider "making bommies"... piles separated by sand...>
I know most of these animals need a lot of room to roam, with exception of the eel who I am sure will still appreciate it anyway for it's evening prowl. Do you foresee any problems with this set up that I should pay more attention to or change all together?
Thank you in advance for your time and expertise,
Brian
<Nothing jumps out... Bob Fenner>

Stocking Tradeoffs For A 180 Gallon System – 06/11/07
Hi Crew,
<Hey there! Scott F. here tonight!>
Thank you for taking my question. I've had a 30-gal for a year now and I am thinking of getting a larger tank. I've done quite a bit of research and your website has helped immensely. I would like to stock the following FOWLR:
Blue Hippo Tang
Yellow Tang
Emperor Angel
1-2 Heniochus butterflies
I would like to get a 180 gal but I'm afraid it may be too small???
<Well, since you asked...The Hippo Tang (Paracanthurus hepatus) can get pretty large- in fact, 12" plus is not uncommon.
<<I just looked up because I've never seen one this large... but fishbase: http://fishbase.org/Summary/speciesSummary.php?ID=6017&genusname=Paracanthurus&speciesname=hepatus does give a maximum standard length for the species as 31 cm. RMF>>
 I would consider a 180 gallon aquarium about the minimum that I would use to house one of these fish. For Tangs in general, I would avoid keeping them in anything less than a 5 foot long aquarium- 6 feet for an individual of this species. They really need the physical space and water volume offered by large systems. Gosh- I feel like I'm raining on your parade, but I'll give my two cents worth on the Emporer as well. This is another potentially huge fish (It can and will hit 15"), and needs correspondingly large quarters to house it for anything resembling a normal life span. Honestly, I would not keep this species unless I could offer it a very large 300-500 gallon, 8 foot long-plus system from the start. These fishes range over huge territories in the wild, and to keep them in what would really amount to small quarters given their potential size is not a humane move, IMO. This conservative approach to stocking is not shared with everyone, but I feel obliged to hive you my honest opinion on the topic!>
If I needed to drop some fish from this list to make this work would you have any recommendations?
<Hmm.. I'd definitely eliminate the Emperor Angel, and I'd probably nix the Heniochus as well. Why not go for a really nice "showpiece" Centropyge Angelfish, such as the Bicolor (C. bicolor) or the Lemonpeel Angel (C. flavissimus). Neither is a "beginner's" species, but they are gorgeous, at least as hardy as the Emperor, IMO, and are equally spectacular in appearance when healthy and happy. They have the added benefit that they max out at around 5 inches or so in length. In place of the Heniochus, I'd consider a Long Nose Butterflyfish (Forcipiger flavissimus). Again, not a beginners fish, but a nicer choice in my opinion than the Heniochus. If you get a healthy specimen to begin with and quarantine and acclimate it carefully, you'll have another nice showpiece specimen. If you're inclined to add a Butterflyfish, be sure to add it PRIOR to the Angelfish, to give it a good opportunity to acclimate to captivity. Other choices might be a few small wrasses of the genus Halichoeres. There are dozens of species, and almost all are colorful, interesting, and well-suited for captive care. Another cool "solo" fish would be a Marine Betta (Calloplesiops altivelis), a wonderful, hardy, and fascinating fish. It can be shy at first, but settles down nicely to become a spectacular showpiece in your system. If you're not a "Pacific Snob", (ok- I admit I am...sort of), you'd be hard pressed to find a more interesting display than a group of Royal Gramma (G. loreto), which would be colorful, active and fascinating to watch. You'd want to have a little overhang or cave in your rockwork to display them at their best. Okay- I think I've given you enough avenues to explore. Hope they pique your interest!>
Thanks for your help and expertise!
John
<Happy to help! Regards, Scott F.>

Stocking Trade-Offs (Cont'd.), FOWLR    6/13/07
Hi Scott,
<Hey there!>
Wow - thank you! I have made enough mistakes so far to highly appreciate the conservative approach - plus I would like to be a good example and teacher of responsibility and science/conservation for my kids.
<Believe me- I've made more than my fair share- that's why I'm happy to share my experiences to others' benefit.>
After thinking/reading, if you don't mind, I would like to follow up with more questions.
<Ask away.>
So I will get a Bicolor Angel and leave the Emperors in the sea.
<Nice fish. As I said, the Bicolor is not an "easy" fish, but it is not necessarily a difficult one if you start with a quality fish that's been handled well from reef to retailer.>
I would like to hang on to the Blue Hippo (first choice) and Yellow (second choice of Tang if can't have both) Tangs.
<Okay, then we need to work the rest of your stocking plan around these two fishes.>
I currently have Xenia (favorite coral so far), Frogspawn, Red Meat Coral, and Star Polyp - with a cleaner shrimp, a percula clown pair and orange Fromia sea star; if I move these in to the 180 gal system, how would that change your recommendations?
<Well, I would have to warn you that the Angelfish is very likely to pick at or eat your Xenia, and probably will sample your other corals, as well.>
The idea about the Marine Betta is very cool and appreciated -how would this fit in a reef setting - do you think it would eat the shrimp/clowns?
<The shrimp is definitely a potential meal for the Betta...Another trade off! I would not worry too much about the Clowns, unless they're tiny.>
I prefer the Long Nose butterfly - my wife prefers the B&W Henis. - would one of these be a good candidate for a reef setting?
<With a reef, you can keep the Long Nose, but it does entail some possible risk. The Heniochus are generally acceptable, depending on the species you choose, but they are pretty large fishes, meaning that you'll have to leave someone else out...Another trade off.>
The Royal Gramma group is also very cool! How many would you recommend?
<If you can swing it, and have just a few other fishes in the aquarium, I'd go for a group of anywhere from 5-8 individuals. You'll witness interesting social behaviors, and possibly even breeding activity.>
Thank you again for your kindness and assistance in responding!
John
<My pleasure, John. As you can see you can keep some of the fishes that you are contemplating, but there are necessary trade offs to consider. Keep researching, formulate your plan, and work your plan! Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Stocking list + introduction order  6/10/07
Hello WWM Crew,
<Marc>
I once again seek your counsel. A couple months ago I sent you an e-mail  about my stocking list. Here are the two mails, along with the response  (that will keep me from rewriting my tank setup :-P
E-mail 1 :
*****
Hello WWM crew!
<Marc>
First off, let me congratulate you on your web site, there so much info found on it (though it sometimes takes a long time finding it, since it is so huge, but, hey, no big deal).
I currently have a 125 gallons reef tank (Perfecto, 72x18x22) with a 60 gallons sump (with something like 50 gallons of water in it). My return pump is a Velocity T4 (1500 GPH) which also feeds the refugium section of my sump (in which I just added light with a small ball of Chaetomorpha). I have 2 Seio 1500 et 1 820 (for approximately 30X) for water motion. The filtration of this tank is accomplished by approximately 140 pounds of LR (mix of Fiji, Sulawesi and Brazilian) and a Beckett Protein skimmer (46" tall, diameter of 8") with an Iwaki MD100RLT pump in recirculation and fed by a Mag7. It is lit by 2 250W MH bulbs and 2 6' VHO (165W each).
Now for the livestock. I only have a couple of corals for now (the tank has only been up and running since November 2006), but I plan to add more as it matures.
I have :
- Iridis wrasse (Halichoeres iridis)
- Yellow tail damsel
- Green clown goby (Gobiodon atrangulatus
- Lawnmower blenny (Salarias fasciatus)
- Banggai cardinal (Pterapogon kauderni
- 3 peppermint shrimps (Lysmata wurdemanni, which made a terrific job on Aiptasias :)
- 2 cleaner shrimps (Lysmata amboinensis)
- Several hermit crabs and snails
The 2 cleaner shrimps and the iridis wrasse were added 4 days ago. The cleaners are doing great and have taken cleaning station on a rock (haven't seen them clean a fish yet though). The wrasse is also doing good, besides the fact that it had me worried the second and third day. It buried itself in the sand for the night (which I've heard/read is normal for these fishes), but didn't come out until 9 pm (my lights are on from noon to midnight)! Today, I don't know at what time it came out, but when I came home at 5 pm, it was already swimming nicely. It easily accepted frozen food, but was reticent with flakes for the first 2 days.
<Don't really eat much dried/prepared food>
So, my question was (sorry for the long intro!) : I wish to add tangs to my setup (not right now, maybe in a couple of months) and would like your advice on the species I've selected. I'd like to add :
- Achilles tang (Acanthurus achilles)
<Yikes... not easily kept in captivity, and very prone to protozoan  complaints>
- Blue hippo tang (Paracanthurus hepatus)
- Desjardini sailfin tang (Zebrasoma desjardinii
<A gorgeous species... but does get very large...>
My concern is mainly about the achilles (and a little about the hippo). I've read/heard it wasn't a very hardy fish. What advice could you give me on that fish?
<Mmm, just that... I would hold off for now on an Achilles... really do much better in very mature, large systems... the other two would be okay here>
To reduce aggression between the tangs I plan to add all three of them simultaneously. Do you think this is a bad idea?
<Mmm... well, I would likely place the Paracanthurus first... wait a few weeks,
then the Zebrasoma... not so much that they will fight to the point of real damage, but the increase in bio-load, the change in dynamic with the other livestock... less stressful to stagger here... and leave out the Achilles>
Also, some people told me the hippo tang needs a larger tank once at full size. What is your opinion on that?
<Likely will be fine here for a very long time>
Here are the other fishes I would like to add (in the order I would add them)
- Pair of percula clownfish (Amphiprion percula)
- One or two purple firefish (Nemateleotris decora)
<Two would be far better than one>
- Green mandarin (Synchiropus splendidus)
- Bellus angelfish (Genicanthus bellus)
- A butterfly, probably a longnose (Forcipiger flavissimus or the
longirostris)
- Tangs!
I would also like to introduce schooling fishes. I had some Chromis before (Chromis viridis). They are nice fish, but I'd like something more colorful. I thought about anthias, but some can be hard and require frequent feeding to ensure success.
<Mmm, do look around... seek out a grouping that are not "too" thin... there  are some quite hardy species for a setting like yours>
Which would you recommend and how many would you put in my setup?
<Please see WWM re the Anthiines... likely two species... Perhaps  squamipinnis and Bartlett's... but there are several other choices>
I also recently discovered the chalk bass (Serranus tortugarum) which gets along well in groups. Do you have any advice on this fish?
<Mmm... well... I'd rather see this kept with other tropical West Atlantic species, settings>
Finally, I'd like to know your opinion on my fish list and introduction order. Anything that wouldn't get along?
Thank you very much,
Marc.
<Looks fine to me. Bob Fenner>
E-mail 2 :
Thank you very much for your reply. Regarding the Achilles, if I do introduce one in my system, it shouldn't be before quite some time.
<Correct>
I'll wait until my system has matured and it shall be my last addition.
<Very good... I do wish you were out here with me, diving in Hawai'i, seeing this fish, going out with collector friends... feeling how soft-bodied this Acanthurus is... how easily damaged... Perhaps only time, personal  experience
will bring to your awareness the fragility of this species>
And on the anthias, these were the two species I retained. I might go with the Bartlett's.
<Ahh, a good choice... do look for some "freshly arrived" grouping... 3,5,7 individuals...>
Again, thank you very much and keep up the good work,
Regards,
Marc.
<Welcome my friend. Am trying. BobF>
*****
First off, my iridis wrasse died after 5 days... I'm not sure why, but his "lips" where injured (maybe from digging the sand?).
<Possibly... but more likely consequent from damage in collection, holding, shipping before you receiving it>
He was eating well at the LFS and the first 2 days but then he stayed hidden (probably buried in the sand) et finally found him dead the fifth (or sixth) day. I didn't quarantine the fish, but I'm currently setting up a QT for further additions, and will surely give that fish another try later.
<Ah, good>
So right now, my tank only has 4 inhabitants :
- Lawnmower blenny
- Banggai cardinal
- Yellow tail blue damsel
- Green clown goby
I've been rethinking my stocking list a little bit and would like your advice and I also have a few things to ask about the answers I got previously.
So here is the list I've made (in order of introduction) :
- 2 True percula clownfish
- 2 Purple firefish
- 1 Iridis wrasse (Halichoeres iridis)
- 1 Green mandarin (Synchiropus splendidus)
- Bartlett's anthias (5? 7?)
<Either number... best all placed at once... with only one definite mature male>
- 1 Ornate angelfish (Genicanthus bellus)
- 1 Hippo tang
- 1 Desjardini sailfin tang
- 1 Achilles tang
What do you think about this stocking list? I am not sure about the number of anthias. And also, about this, why are people always recommending to add schooling fish in odd numbers?
<Seem to associate more readily as a group, far less likelihood of "ganging up" on the smallest, most "Beta" individual...>
I know Mr. Fenner is a little reticent about the achilles tang. I would love to add this tang to my display, but if you say that the chances of keeping this fish healthy in my tank for a decent amount of time are slim to none, I might drop it...
<Do quarantine... place last...>
Do you think I could add two green mandarins instead of only one (I would try to get a male and a female) or they wouldn't get enough food?
<Should be fine>
I would also like some advice regarding the bellus angel. I know this species comes from deeper waters and that they sometimes have decompression problems.
<Only from collection... if/once "bled" no problem>
What would be your advice on selecting healthy individuals? Do you think I could add a couple (if I can get my hands on one...) or that wouldn't be a good idea (and why not)?
<See WWM re Pomacanthid Selection, Genicanthus...>
I'm not sure if I would like to add a butterfly fish. I want a reef-safe one. Are the Forcipiger flavissimus 100% reef-safe or it is a hit or miss?
<More safe than not>
Are there any fish that you would rule out from my list? Anything that you would add? Any comments are appreciated.
<My comments, such as they are, are posted on WWM for these species>
Once again, thank you very much for your devotion on this site and good night,
Marc Amyot.
<Welcome my friend. Bob Fenner>

Stocking Question, FOWLR    6/9/07
Hello,
I am enjoying your site. Very informative and great for a novice like myself.
I tried to join but it said registration is unavailable?
<This is someone elses domain... keep trying>
Basic Info and Set-up
I am three months into a 72gal. with 80lbs of nice porous Indo LR, 1-2" of Aragonite Reef Sand, Eheim Pro ll Filter, Tank Mounted Skimmer rated to 125gal, heater, 1 Blue Actinic and three whites on timers.
Cycled it by the book starting with uncured rock and sand only. Readings cycled just like the books said.
PH 8.2, Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates reading 0 across the board. Spec Gravity 1.021 in both Q-Tank and 72gal.
<I'd elevate...>
Doing 10gal water changes every 2 weeks.
Currently stocking 2 young Percula Clowns, young Coral Beauty, Blood Shrimp, 10 small Hermits, 3 Nassarius, 3 "other" cone shelled snails, a small conch, and a smallish red brittle star (smooth body).
I just added a Feather Duster and a Colt Coral to try them. They also seem to be doing well after the first week. I am less concerned about Reef than I am about fish for now.
Cleaning crew went straight in after cycling, then quarantined Clowns, then the quarantined Coral Beauty. Then the Feather Duster and Coral.
Now a Pixie Hawkfish is in quarantine for another week. I was afraid the Longnose would eat my shrimp?
<A likely possibility>
Everyone seems fine and seem to be eating Frozen Mysis Shrimp and Sinking Pellets well. Who can tell if some of these cleaners are eating well or not?
<Observation>
I do watch the shrimp though.
I do not feed excessively. Sometimes I hope I feed enough. Small amounts of Pellets AM and Frozen Mysis PM.
I hope that is enough info for you to be able to help me.
<With?>
I did do research first but do not yet have confidence, or understanding, in the info I am getting.
I have gone to Fish Store, bought books (actually read them) and researched these items on internet.
Q1. Should I increase the Spec Gravity in one or both tanks?
<Yes, I would>
Q2. Should I add a power head to this set-up? Some say because skimmer is oversized I do not need one.
<Yes, I would>
Q3. Should I add Algae Sheets for the Coral Beauty as well, or are the "Full Spectrum Pellets" sufficient?
<You can try... but I'd just grow some macroalgae in place...>
Q4. Will 1 Mandarinfish and 1 Dwarf Lionfish (Zebra?) fit well with this mix?
<Mmm, maybe... The Lion may consume any/all small/er than mouth-sized tankmates, the Mandarin starve here...>
Q5. Total 6 smallish fish. Will I have any more room after that? (Hippo and/or Yellow Tang?)
<Yes>
Just trying to achieve a variety of colour and character while keeping the peace and not overstocking.
If these are too many questions (sorry), I have listed them in what I think are the order of importance and any help would be a great help.
The deeper I get into this, the harder it seems to be to get straight answers, or even two answers the same.
You seem to have these answers so I thought I might as well throw them out there.
Thank you very much for your site, your time and anything you might be able to help with.
Mike
<Keep learning, enjoying, dreaming and scheming Mike... You'll do fine. Bob Fenner>

The Missing Pieces? FOWLR lvstg.   6/4/07
Hey thanks for your suggestions these past weeks... I'm trying to decide on the final two tankmates to my 200g system that is 3"+ sandbed, 210# liverock with plenty of caves, caverns, hiding spots... Also of note, I have a skimmer rated for 355g so I am hoping I am getting some really good skimming and it appears that I am.
18" Snowflake Moray
4" & 6" Bannerfish (referring to fact I have two of them)
5" Hawaiian Yellow Tang
5" Foxface
4" Tuskfish
3" Royal Dottyback
1 Brown Banded Serpent Star
3 Sand Stars ~ yes, I know I shouldn't really have any... it kinda sorta just happened? Well at least two of them sorta just happened.
The Yellow Tang seems to go through a 2 week initiation phase... at least, it did with both Bannerfish and the Tuskfish but I have never observed any cuts or marks on any fish. The Tang left alone the Dottyback and seems to have paired up nicely with the Foxface.
<This species and others do this... a bit of settling in, dominance... resource partitioning...>
I don't want to overstock by any means... in fact I'd rather stay a little understocked. At the same time, I'd like to ad some color.
<Mmm, the various "territories" life utilizes "in the wild" are determined, contested in many ways... Much larger sizes than aquarists provide>
Would the addition of a Cherub Dwarf Angel and then maybe a month later
either a Longnose Hawk/Flame Hawk, and then maybe three or four months later a Picasso Trigger work in your opinion?
<Could, should work here>
Would this be overstocking given my current situation?
<Mmm, no>
I've read through your FAQ's and it always seems that people are noting conflict between Hawks and Dottybacks and either one seems to be the aggressor?
<In smaller volumes. You should be fine here>
My Dottyback has killed a few new additions in my smaller 90gallon tank ~ hence he was moved into the more aggressive/larger specimen tank. Triggers interest me and I've read the Picasso is one of the more peaceful ones... although also realize that each individual is different.
<Ah, yes>
If I am overstocking with the above scenario, I may scrap the Hawk and the Cherub Angel and just get a Flame Angel and the Trigger?
<Yes>
I want some
red and some personality in my tank. Thoughts?
<These mixes should work. Bob Fenner>
David

Taking Stock (Stocking Inquiry)   5/29/07
Quick question for you guys. I have a 80 gal FOWLR tank with a 20 gal sump, great filtration. Anyway, my group consists of 1 GSM Clown 4", 1 Scotts Wrasse 4", 2 Scott's Wrasses 3" each, 1 Royal Gramma 2", 1 Flame Angel 2", 1 Green Chromis 2". We also have 3 Skunk shrimp, a bunch of snails and 1 small crab, don't know what kind, never see him. We are thinking of adding 2-3 Yellow Assessors. Question: Is this feasible in your opinion or do you know of something else we could add that would be ok. Or are we at our limit already? Thanks, Beth
<Well, Beth, I'd say that you're at your limit already with this system...In fact, you're actually kinda pushing it with the Wrasses and the Clown. I have maintained Yellow Assessors for years, and they are truly among the most timid of all reef fishes, IMO. I do love them dearly, however. Although in time they will come out and actively feed, they tend to spend a lot of time simply hiding under ledges in your rockwork, and slowly swimming about the water column. I'm afraid that in an aquarium of this size, and with this stocking density that you'd be in for some problems with these little fish. If it were me, I'd consider your stocking completed with this system for now, and enjoy the interesting mix that you currently have! Best of luck in the future! Regards, Scott F.>

Re: System Stocking-Trade Offs and Risks! 6/10/07
Hello Scott,
<Hi there again!>
Just a follow up to your remarks. With my skimmer (Aqua C) I empty it daily. I get coffee-colored skimmate usually, not a light color. And I am anal with my husbandry... That being said I really like the Rusty Angelfish a lot.
<Rusty's are great fish, they just tend to reach a size that may be problematic in a fully-stocked system of your size. If you are willing to make stocking concessions, such as moving out other fishes, etc., it is possible- but I still think a larger aquarium is a better call for that species..>
I do like the species that you have suggested in the Cherub Angel.
<The "African Flameback" angel is even nicer-looking and also similar in size...>
As for the Tang, I was going to get a smaller one and then give it up after it outgrows my tank.
<Commendable, I know-and the idea sounds good on paper. I just don't like that approach. The reason I am skeptical is that I have heard this literally hundreds of times over the years here on WWM, and I have heard lots of excuses why the exchange never took place. Sometimes, a larger tank that is in the planning phase never comes to fruition, other times the hobbyist feels that the fish has "grown relative to the aquarium size" (and absurdity- I know you don't think that way!). I guess my conservative stocking theory is that you should never purchase a fish that you will not be able to accommodate in your aquarium for its full natural life span. This is why I go nuts when I hear about folks buying juvenile Emperor Angels and placing them in small aquariums until they get that "360 gallon system" that they have been planning. It's like buying a puppy and then giving him or her away when they are an adult...Yuck..! I'm off my soapbox now!>
Speaking of Tangs, do you think I could house a Kole Tang?
<One of the smallest Tangs generally kept in aquaria, but I have this thing about keeping any Tang in a system less than 5 feet in length...That's just my opinion, of course, but you asked...:) >
I might be leaning towards a reef setup soon. I have heard bad things about the Rusty Angels nipping at corals. Is the Cherub the same way?
<Any Centropyge is hit or miss. The Rusty is potentially a coral nipper. The smaller Centropyge species are less inclined to nip at corals, in my experience. On the other hand, the smaller the system, the fewer corals you house, so the likelihood of one particular coral being damaged by the Angel is greater. I am a huge Centropyge fan, and keeping one in a reef system is a risk I am willing to take. I like fishes more than the corals, myself, and so I'm willing to take risks or trade-offs. You may be different. You could try a species with a reputation for being less inclined to nip at corals, such as the Coral Beauty. Of course, an individual of a species "reputed" not to munch on corals may develop this habit regardless! On the other hand, I've seen reef systems with Lemonpeel Angels, and even full-size" angels that never develop this habit. It's always a risk. You can hedge your bets by stocking your system with some of the more ichthyotoxic coral species, such as Lobophytum, Sinularia, Cladiella, etc. Regardless, it's your call!>
Thanks again! You guys are great!!
Brad
<Thanks for the kind words, Brad! Good luck! regards, Scott F.>

SW Live stock selection  - 05/26/07
I would just like to tell you guys how amazing your site is. I could (and sometimes do) spend HOURS searching through all of the stuff you have on here. I have learned to look up my questions, before asking, and have found almost everything I've searched for, so kudos to you, and keep it up.
<We're trying!>
To the question at hand. I have a 40 gallon breeder sized tank that has been running for more than a year. Has at least 40lbs of live rock (I can't remember its been so long), carbonate substrate with 10lbs of GARF grunge live sand (never searched your site for GARF, if you haven't been to GARF.org, you should take a look).
<Know this organization, have met Leroy and Sally Jo... nice, enthusiastic folks>
I had originally purchased a green clown goby and a small orange/red faced white bodied goby type fish about 7 month ago. Both died within 4 weeks, and the tank has been running empty since. I don't feed the tank anything.
Two Marineland Maxi-jet PHs, 1-1200 and 1-600, circulate the water with a SeaClone 100 protein skimmer with attached Maxi jet 1200 PH. This circulates the water over 17 times an hour (the two detached PHs face towards each other, at the back of the tank to avoid dead zones behind the rocks).
I'm looking to maintain a FOWLR tank, and would like to get a small group of the same fish, 3 to 5, and one single fish that would stand out. I'm not experienced enough for inverts or corals at this time.
So far for the grouped fish I am thinking Chalk Bass (Serranus tortugarum), or Threadfin Cardinalfish (Apogon leptacanthus).
<Both good choices... but only one Serranus for this volume...>
And for the 'star' fish I have thought of the Coral Beauty (Centropyge bispinosa) or Yellow Headed Jaw fish (Opistognathus aurifrons).
<Mmm, not the Coral Beauty... not enough space>
I would like the fish to contrast in shape, size, and where they swim to make it look full and lively, but don't want to over crowd the tank.
<Good ideas>
Your suggestions, criticisms, and unbelievable knowledge are GREATLY APPRECIATED!
Bruce
<The Apogonids would go... and maybe two Jawfish... for the activity, interaction... Bob Fenner>

Marine Betta and Volitans Lion Compatibility   5/23/07
Hi Crew!
<Piew>
I'm setting up a 210gallon FOWLR tank intended to keep Volitans lions, now I'm thinking of what other fish I can house in the same community. I've come
up with the following list of fishes that I plan to put:
1.                   3 Volitans
2.                   1 Tassel Filefish
3.                   1 Marine Betta
4.                   1 Rhinopias scorpion
<Nice organisms!>
Can they get along with each other? Thanks!
<In this size volume... all starting off such that the Lion can't ingest its tankmates due to size... they should be fine. Bob Fenner>
Piew

New 180, FOWLR stkg. mostly     5/16/07
Hey Bob how's it going?
<Fine, thanks>
Just got done plumbing my new 180 gal. I'm planning this to be a FOWLR. I just received 100 pounds or Fiji (dead) rock, and I plan on planting it with 100 pounds of live rock from my current 60gal setup. Any how I have a 36x16x16 sump/refuge, and a EuroReef 180 in it.
<Nice>
This will be used with two drilled overflows and a Eheim pro III canister filter.
<Mmm, good product, but don't know re the use here>
Water movement will be done from two Seio 6200, and I also have a 40watt current usa UV I still need to plumb into the sump. I'm going with a 1 inch sand bed for looks. Anyhow now I want to start planning the stocking list.
After the tank cycles for about a month I want to add 7 blue/green Chromis, followed by the inhabits of my current tank, 1 silver Foxface, and 1 snowflake moray. I'm not sure if I want to keep the eel for this system, but he really is a chill moray. I'd like to stock some of the following; mated pair of Percula Clownfish, hippo tang, Harlequin Tusk Wrasse (Australia),
<May eat the Damsels, including the Clowns...>
pair of Schooling Bannerfish, and a large angel of some kind.
<Would not do this last>
What are your
feelings on this, and what advice/changes would you make? I would like a lot of color and movement, but I don't want to overstock.
<To keep reading, stay flexible with your stocking plan as it progresses... Perhaps a Genicanthus sp. angel... Bob Fenner>

Bioload and stocking Q's 4/26/07
<Hello.>
I am starting up a 72 gallon FOWLR tank.  I have finished purchasing my equipment and now I am looking for my stocking list.  After much research (of which your site is very helpful, thank you) I think I have my
fish list:
2 ocellaris clowns
4blue/green Chromis
1 neon goby
1 royal Gramma
1 flame angel
1 sixline wrasse
<I like this list. Might be *some* aggression from the sixline towards the neon goby, might not.>
Is this to much for a 72 gallon tank?  I have the fish listed in the order I will be stocking them, would you rearrange?  
<Yes. I would do the goby, angel and Chromis all together or at least before the others. Then the Gramma, followed by the sixline and finishing with the clowns.>
Will the fish all get along with each other?  
<See above.>
Any other tips or questions that I do not know enough to come up with would be appreciated.  Just looking for a more qualified
opinion then mine.  Thanks.
<I think you have a nice list, and I won't interfere.
-GrahamT>

Re: pt. 2 Bioload and stocking Q's 4/26/07  - 05/01/07
Thank you for your quick reply.  
<No problem, friend.>
I am just curious for my own sake why the clowns would be put in last?  I thought that you would put the more aggressive fish last and all I have read about the clowns are how peaceful they are and what a perfect beginner fish they would be.  
<I don't think you would have to worry about the Gramma going after the clowns as new arrivals, though it is possible. I just think it is important to set the trend early that the pair is last to be added. In the future, it is very likely that a mated pair of clowns would rule the tank. Granted, Ocellaris aren't as feisty as, say, a Maroon or Clarkii, but they are still in the pugnacious damsel family.>
I've also decided to add another Chromis as thru my research I have heard you should keep an odd number of fish.  
<Is fine...>
A question I have for the Chromis is I have a 10 gallon QT tank that I will be using.  Is it ok to QT all Chromis at the same time?  
<Yup, since they will probably be in the same quarters when you purchase them anyway.>
I could break them up into a group of 2 and 3 but I heard that the dominant one will pick on the other fish when put into groups of 2-3.
Also since this is a newly established tank would this be too many fish to put in at one time for my display tank?  
<At one time? I though you were spacing it out, right? The last message was all about which to add first, then second, etc. I presumed that meant you weren't putting them in one day after the first and so on. Whatever order you add them in, space them out by a week or more to let the system stabilize and the fish acclimate. Remember, you want the least aggressive specimens to be comfortable when the new-comers show up.>
Thanks for your help.
<Welcome and good luck!
-GrahamT>

Big Fish...Big Project!  4/26/07
I currently have a freshwater system, but am looking at starting a FOWLR saltwater tank.
<Neat, be sure to do as much reading and research ahead a time as possible.>
I want a Humu triggerfish for sure.
<Lots of personality...and teeth!>
  The next most important fish to me is a snowflake eel, then a yellow tang, and finally an annularis angelfish.
<A large FOWLR then, huh? Something along the line of a 240 gallon tank for these proposed animals to co-exist as mature adults.>
Is this too much for a 75 gallon tank?
<Afraid the tang and Angel alone would be too much for a tank that size.>
If so, what size would you recommend?
<See above.>
What I am most concerned with is the compatibility of these fish.  What would be your predictions.
<It could work in a very large tank, the Angel and the Trigger will be the bruisers of the tank for sure.>
I have done a lot of reading and am having trouble getting information regarding my specific questions.
<That's why we exist my friend.>
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
<Good luck and keep reading!>
Glenn
<Adam J.>

Re: Still Big Fish...Smaller Project!  4/26/07
I didn't realize that a 240 gallon tank would be necessary for those fish.
<Some of those are what experienced aquarists would put into the category of tank busters!>
What if I were to only keep live rock Humu triggerfish and the snowflake eel alone in the tank?
<It could work, but I would still prefer more surface area than a standard 75....for each animal. If you do go ahead with this, I would make the rockwork minimal.>
Is that still too much for a 75 gallon.
<It could work, but like I said I would prefer ore surface area.>
I appreciate all of your help.
<Anytime.>
Glenn
<Adam Jackson.>

New Setup, FOWLR, and stkg.    4/19/07
How's it going Bob?
<Fine. Thanks>
I'm upgrading from my 60gal FOWLR to a 150gal FOWLR.
<How nice!>
The only thing I will carry over from my 60 to the 150 is my new Eheim pro III.
(which is supposed to work for a tank up to 300gal)
<A good product for sure>
Anyways, the 150 I want to purchase is a AGA with two built in Megaflow over flows. These I want to drop down to a AGA Megaflow Sump filter Model 4. That is where I plan on keeping a protein skimmer, heater, and UV sterilizer. I currently use a Corallife super needle-wheel 125, I like it but for obvious reasons I must upgrade to a larger size. What do you recommend?
<Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/marsetupindex2.htm
scroll down to the black bar... Skimmers... Selection...>
Do you see any flaws with my plan?
<Mmm, not per se... but do take care when sizing the "not-so" Mega plumbing and pumping here...>
After I get it setup and cycle it for a few weeks (I have a three inch sand bed in the 60 I will also add, with about 70ibs of live rock) I also have large artificial LR I purchased for cosmetic reasons only and I want to add sand to have at  least a 4 inch bed. I'd like to stock the 150 with some of the following; Silver Foxface - *Lo magnifica, *Volitans Lion *- Pterois volitans, *(these two I have from the 60), then either a Imperator Angel  - *Pomacanthus imperator, *Maculosus Angel - *Pomacanthus maculosus or a *Annularis Angel  - *Pomacanthus annularis. *I know I can only have one of these large angels.
<Actually... all three will get or be too large for this 150...>
I'd also looking at a tang. Either a Naso Tang  - *Naso lituratus, *Powder Blue Tang - *Acanthurus leucosternon or a  *Powder Brown Tang - *Acanthurus japonicus. *Is this tank too small for any of these fish.
<The last tang species would be my choice... You can read re all three's Selection, Systems... on WWM>
I know the Naso can grow large. Then I want a Harlequin Tusk Wrasse (Australia) - *Lienardella fasciata *and a Golden Head Sleeper Goby - *Valenciennea strigata* too stir up the sand bed. The Powder tangs look beautiful, but I'm concerned about their reputation for sickness.
<You are wise here>
What do you recommend from this list? I obviously want lots of fish movement, but I don't want to over crowd. I also want to put two nice powerheads hooked to a wave maker.
Thanks for your time,
Mike
<I would leave off with the large Angel... perhaps another genus... What site could you scan through re? Bob Fenner>

Starting a FOWLR & Invertebrates 4/16/07
Hi WWM Crew,
<Hello>
Let me start out by saying your site is a great help.
<Thanks.>
I am currently cycling a 29gal tank (30x12x18) for my first saltwater tank that I hope to one-day make a FOWLR & inverts. I am not sure what would be a good mix with in my tanks limits and don't trust a LFS to give me the best advice. Here is my plan can you please advise me of any pit falls you may see. I do not wish to cause any undo harm to the marine life I want to keep.
<Good attitude to start with.>
-Fish-
2 Percula Clownfish
1 Royal Gamma
<Nice, although Amphiprion ocellaris may be easier to start with than the Perculas and look almost identical.>
-Invertebrates-
2 Emerald Crabs
2 Nassarius Snails
2 Blue Leg Hermit Crabs
1 Cleaner Shrimp
1 Sand Sifting Starfish <Drop this one, will starve in this sized tank.>
-Lighting-
24" VHO bulb 75Watt  (plan on purchasing before any rock)
-Filtration-
Penguin 200 bio-wheel  (currently own) <Unnecessary with the skimmer and LR, but can be useful for running carbon.  Clean often.>
30lb live rock
20lb live sand (also currently in the tank)
-Skimmer-
AquaC Remora (plan on purchasing before any rock)
<Love mine.>
-Power head –
Aquarium Systems Maxi-Jet PH Power Head 1200, 295 GPH (plan on purchasing before any rock)
<I would prefer 2 smaller ones to 1 large, but will work fine.>
I am going to add the clownfish first then the royal gamma. After I get my feet wet I will start adding the live rock then finally the inverts (one species every two weeks).
<LR before the fish, will most likely cause a cycle and the basis for your filtration.>
Thank you for your time, Rob.
<Good luck with the new tank.>
<Chris>