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FAQs about Fishes and Invertebrates, aka FOWLR Marine System Livestocking 4

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Related FAQs: FOWLR Livestocking, FOWLR Livestocking 2, FOWLR Livestocking 3, FOWLR Livestocking 4, FOWLR Livestocking 5, FOWLR Livestocking 6, FOWLR Livestocking 7, & FOWLR 1, FOWLR 2, FOWLR 3, FOWLR Set-Ups, FOWLR Lighting, FOWLR Filtration, FOWLR Skimmers, FOWLR Maintenance, FOWLR Disease, LR Lighting, Fish-Only Marine Set-ups, Reef Systems, Coldwater Systems, Small Systems, Large Systems, Marine System PlumbingBiotopic presentations

Many fishes are far better off in "reef" settings.... not surprising... as most originate from  and are part of them

Small Marine Aquariums
Book 1: Invertebrates, Algae
New Print and eBook on Amazon:
by Robert (Bob) Fenner
Small Marine Aquariums
B
ook 2: Fishes
New Print and eBook on Amazon: by Robert (Bob) Fenner
Small Marine Aquariums Book 3: Systems
New Print and eBook on Amazon:
by Robert (Bob) Fenner

FOWLR Predator confusion 10/24/08 Thank you in advance for your information. I have been reading and getting some conflicting or at least confusing information on your site in one particular area. I am converting one of my reef tanks over to a predator tank. Not sure of the exact mix, but something along the lines of triggers, wrasses, maybe smaller puffers or dwarf lionfish. <Mmm, not Lions with these others... too likely to get picked on and/or starved> Anyway, I've always been use to having a large clean up crew. Obviously with this mix, they will just get eaten. <Yes> There have been many questions on your site about predator tanks and pieces of meat landing on the bottom etc, and some of the responses have been that's what your clean up crew is for???? <? Not from me... am not a fan of such reliance. Please cite specific instances, their location> After they had just named some of the most aggressive fish out there that was in their tank. So what clean up crew are they talking about that doesn't get eaten by say a clown trigger of dogface puffer? <None> If you can't have the typical cleanup crew, what do you use to keep your live rock and sand bed clean? <You, your gear, careful maintenance...> Thank you, Brian <Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Is It Okay To Add The Male bimaculatus Anthias First? 10/20/08 After over a year of searching for a trio (I've been unsuccessful in finding a group), I've given up and decided to pick up a 4.5" male Twinspot Anthias (Pseudanthias bimaculatus) in hopes of picking up two to three females sometime in the future. The male is currently in a 30 gallon quarantine and doing well, eating mysis and brine shrimp. <<Very good>> I've read conflicting reports that the females should be added first or at the same time as the male. <<This is the consensus for the best chance of a successful grouping, yes>> I had also read that there was a risk that by adding the females first, that the dominant female would eventually change to a male. <<More than just a risk if left too longbest to add the male within a week of introducing the females, in my opinion>> Lastly, I had read that it was possible that the male would likely bully females added after the male had been added. <<This too is true>> Will I be ok with adding two-three females with the male? <<Possibly>> Or is this asking for trouble? <<The more females added at one time the more any aggression will be spread aroundbe aware that the females too will establish a dominance hierarchy among themselves. Three is a good numberfive would be better (assuming the system can handle them)>> The main tank is currently a 100 gallon set up over a year and a half old, FOWLR. The tank is currently inhabited by a pair of 1.5" Ocellaris Clowns, a 4" Raccoon Butterfly, a 4.5" Achilles Tang, <<Mmma delicate species that needs a bigger tank than this>> a 3.5" Queen Angel, <<Also too much fish for this size tank>> a 3" Mystery Wrasse, a 3" Algae Blenny, and a 3" Eibli Angel. I know, too many fish for a tank this size. <<Not too many for the tank so much as just inappropriate species selection re>> I have a 240 gallon tank currently being set up, which will be the FOWLR for the Queen Angel, Raccoon Butterfly, Eibli Angel, and probably the Achilles Tang with eventually more fish. <<The Queen Angel can reach 20 in the wildand the Achilles needs lots of swimming room (and lots of water flow). With an eye toward the future, I would be reluctant to add anything but a few very small fishes here>> The 100 will be converted over to a reef with the clowns, mystery wrasse, algae blenny, and trio of bimaculatus Anthias. <<Do be aware the Clowns may pose a problem re the AnthiasI have seen Damsels chase small Anthiines to the point they jump from the tank in an effort to escape>> Which, by the way, would it be ok to add one of the fairy wrasses to the 100 with the mystery wrasse? Or will they fight? <<A similar or smaller sized specimen will likely be attacked>> I enjoy reading your site and many thanks in advance! Wes <<We are all happy to share. Regards, EricR>>

Tankmate for Snowflake Eels and Friends, Tulip/Conch comp.,  10/16/08 I am in a school with three large marine tanks - one 55 gallon predator (will be expanding to meet the needs of these guys as they grow), one 75 gallon reef tank, and one 500 gallon touch tank. The predator tank has two snowflake eels (10 - 12") one volatin <Volitans?> lionfish (5") one dogfaced puffer (4") and two wrasse (one clown and one lunar). <Better not confuse the predator with the touch tank, hehe. Oh, and medium sized wrasses have been eaten by larger Echidna eels. You will need a big upgrade in the not-so-far-away future.> The touch tank has a beautiful Tulip Snail who has worn out his welcome. He is unkindly ridding my tank of all the other cleaners! <Yes very, very predatory. Does best in a one-specimen tank.> I have considered moving the Tulip to the "predator" tank but want to be sure he will not be bullied/injured by any of these current residents or be a threat to them. <The latter. Wrasses and puffers sleep at night (partly), are still small and might become prey, even the eels are a little small. In addition, the puffer would become a threat to the snail, molluscs are their favourite prey.> I could use a cleanup crew (even of one) in this tank. The tulip is quite large 7-8". If he is not suitable for this tank, could you make other suggestions for cleaners for this tank which won't be consumed by the predators. What about chocolate chip starfish? <Would have been among my suggestions if you provide a good water quality. Can work in your predator tank, just keep the puffer away from the star for a few hours, he might try to sample it due to its new smell.> Any other ideas? <Very well armoured hermits.> I also would love to try a coral here or there, but "Puff" (dogface) liked the looks of the rock anemone I recently tried briefly way too much! <You can try a mushroom (Corallimorph), they taste nasty and are disliked my many puffers (not all, though). Another option might be a photosynthetic gorgonian or a leather coral, if you have reasonable lighting. However, it cannot be predicted what the puffer will eat and what he wont eat, they really are individuals with regard too some of their foods.> Thanks for your help. <Welcome. Marco.>

Stocking and moving Plan for 220 Gallon FOWLR Tank 10/15/08 Hello Crew, <Sean> I'm upgrading from a 120g to a 220g FOWLR (72L*24W*30H) that will be set up as an island display with visibility from all 4 sides. The overflows will be in the corners, live rock will be in the middle (with plenty of see-through/swim-through areas) and the area between the rocks and the glass on all 4 sides will be left as open swim lanes. After much research, I've finally narrowed down my "wish list" (shown with adult fish size): * Rock Beauty Angel (8") <Mmm, a rare male... start much smaller... and this Holacanthus sp. is not easily kept... do read my acct. on WWM re> * Flame Angel (4") * Red Sea Golden Butterfly (9") <Better in pairs/twos... I'd skip one of the other B/F's and get two> * Saddleback Butterfly (9") * Blue Striped Butterfly (5") <A neat species... C. fremblii> * Purple Tang (10") * White-Faced Tang - a. japonicus not a. nigricans (8") * 2 False Percula Clowns (already paired) (3.5") * 3 Bartlett's Anthias (4") * Orangetail Blue Damsel (3") * Mystery Wrasse (5") * Six-line Wrasse (3") (About 83" total.) I realize that the Rock Beauty requires plenty of sponge in its diet, and I've seen plenty of suggestions for food sources on your website, so I really want to give it a try, as this is easily my favorite fish. So, on to my questions... * Bio Load - What size sump and what size refugium would you recommend for this to be a "safe" bio load with a 220g tank? <Mmm, the biggest/largest you can fit in, really> I am not limited to space inside the stand, as the sump and refugium will be located in the basement below the tank. <Look into Rubbermaid's troughs...> * Big Fish - The above includes 5 fish that are 8-10" in length. Is this too many "big" fish for this size tank? <Mmm, no... given the shape, volume of the system... I don't think these animals will really approach their maximum sizes stated... Maybe half to two-thirds over years time> * Aggression - The above includes a total of 7 angels, tangs and Butterflyfishes, which are reasonably similar in shape and diet. I only have 2-3 of each species, and with the exception of the Butterflyfishes, only one of each genus. I'm hoping that the genus mixture, coupled with the large tank size (with double the swim lanes resulting from the island set-up) will minimize the chance of aggression, or is this an accident waiting to happen? <Mmm, no... I give you very good odds that you'll be fine here> If so, would the situation be helped much if I "downgraded" the Golden Butterflyfish to a Lemonpeel Angel and/or "downgraded" the White-faced Tang to a Tomini Tang so that I have fewer of the "big" fish? <Not really an issue> * Wrasse - I've read that sixlines can be aggressive toward small, peaceful wrasse. Should I be concerned about the Sixline harassing the mystery wrasse in a tank this size? <Mmm, no... s/b plenty of room for them to avoid each other> If so, I might get a more peaceful radiant wrasse instead of the Sixline. Also, I've read some sources which indicate that all three of these could go after small ornamental shrimp, <Can, do> while other sources indicate that they are completely reef safe and won't harm invertebrates. <Mmm, not so> What's your impression? Would peppermints, skunk cleaners and fire shrimp be OK with all three? <If all are well fed... better than even chances of getting along> * Algae control - Without coral, I'll be able to go with minimal lighting, and I'll keep the temps around 76", but the tank will be exposed to quite a bit of direct sunlight. As this is a big, deep tank, I want to avoid having to go scuba diving to keep algae under control, so the stocking plan includes a lot of algae eaters. (I'll supplement with seaweed and algae in the feedings in case algae levels aren't quite high enough.) I've read that the Kole tang is the best for hair and bubble algae, but I just don't find it as appealing as the other fish in my wish list. Does the purple tang go after bubble algae? <Mmm, no, not as much by far> Does the white-faced tang or the Tomini tang go after it? <The genus Ctenochaetus are best here, and with micro-algal species that are palatable> I believe they all go after hair algae, right? <Yes> I know that emerald crabs eat bubble algae, but I also read many of your FAQs which indicate that they come with their own set of potential problems... Also, what critter(s) would you recommend for keeping the sand free of algae? <A sand stirring goby or two perhaps (genus Valenciennea), and/or a goatfish sp.> I have Nassarius snails and a sand sifting star in my 120g, but I still get a bit more algae on the sand than I would like. I may not have enough Nassarius snails stirring up the sand... * Angels - I know that a tank should be up and running for 6 months before adding angels. Since most of the rocks and sand will come from the old system that has been "live" for more than 6 months, how long should I wait before introducing the angels into the new system? Also, should the angels be introduced last, or should the tangs be introduced last? <S/b fine to add once the system is stabilized... let's say in a week or two> * Skimmer(s) - Some sources recommend using 2 skimmers of different types for large tanks. What types would you recommend here? Any particular brands/models that you would recommend here? <One of good quality will do... RK2, EuroReef, AquaC...> * Wet-dry trickle with live rocks vs. using only live rock - I've read/heard strong recommendations on both sides of this argument. What do you think would be best in this setup? <The LR> * The Big Move - My plan is to first fill the new system with RO/DI water to run and check for leaks, then mix the salt right in the system. But then what? Should I gradually do daily water changes from the old system to the new system and gradually move live rocks from the old system to the new system (adding new cultured rocks to the old system) until the new system tests well? <Mmm, likely once all is mixed, settled in water wise, mixing just once, some of the old water for the new... then next week, moving all the old into the new...> Or would I be better off with a big bang approach -- i.e., after the new water is fully mixed and salinity/temperature adjusted in the new system, drain some of the water from the new tank, add all the new cultured live rock to the new tank and move all of the water and live rocks from the old system to the new system? <This, with the one intermittent period> This would then be the equivalent of a massive water change, since the livestock would have all of their old water and live rocks/sand, but lots of new water, too. Or is it possible that some water parameter may get out of balance? (The only inhabitants of my 120g that will need to make the move are 2 clowns, 3 Anthias, 2 serpent stars, the sand star, a peppermint shrimp, a skunk cleaner shrimp and various snails and hermits.) <Best to mix, back and forth at least once...> Sorry for so many questions. Thanks so much for your help (and for all of the great articles and FAQs on you website that have greatly helped my research). <No worries, glad to conspire with you. Bob Fenner>

Re: Stocking Plan for 220 Gallon FOWLER Tank, esp. dwarf lion comp.  8/18/08 Bob, this is all VERY helpful. Thanks much. I'd also really appreciate your opinion on a modified version of the plan that would include a lionfish. I had given up on the idea of a lion in my 120g so that I could have more fish rather than a smaller group of bigger fish. In the 220g, it's worth reconsidering. Here's a modified stocking list (also updated for your prior input): * Dwarf Zebra Lion (7") * Rock Beauty Angel (8") * Flame Angel (4") * Coral Beauty Angel (4") * Saddleback Butterfly (9") * Pearlscale Butterfly (6") * Blue Striped Butterfly (5") * Purple Tang (9") * White-Faced Tang (8") * Bristletooth Tomini Tang (6") * White Stripe Maroon Clown (6") * 3 Lyretail Anthias (4.7" ea) * Mystery Wrasse (4.7"?) * 2 Diamond Gobies (6" ea) This is a bigger fish load than the original plan, so would I now be in potential danger territory for aggression, or will they likely behave given the extra swim lanes provided by the island setup? <All this could/should work... the Lion may eat the gobies...> I'm assuming bio load would still be OK with a large sump/fuge, despite the fact that the lion is a messy eater, right? <Yes> Assuming I get the lion transitioned to only eating frozen food while in QT, will these other fish let me get a feeding stick to the lion without trying to intercept it so that he doesn't starve? <Likely so> I've seen the mystery wrasse listed anywhere from 3-5". Since I don't know the real size, is this safe with the lion? <If the Lion is started small... this Pseudocheilinus is usually "smart" to avoid Dendrochirus, and lives more in and about the midwater rock work... the Lion and the gobies though... on the bottom...> If not, would a radiant wrasse (4.5") be safe? <Safer> Also, are the Lyretails and Gobies safe? <Not entirely, no> I know smaller fish would be at risk, but I'm not sure if any of these would fit in his big mouth. <Oh, can> I believe a Fathead Anthias is taller than the Lyretail while being just as long, so that could be an option (though just one male if I get this one), or are the other fish too aggressive for the Fathead? <I'd skip on a/the Serranocirrhitus here... too likely to "get lost" in your setting. Bob Fenner>

Re: Stocking Plan for 220 Gallon FOWLER Tank 8/18/08 Thank you SO much! I'll skip the Anthias and Gobies. Maybe get a Goatfish or just rely on the snails and sand stars to keep the sand clean. <Ah, good> I'll get a larger mystery wrasse, let him get started in the tank first, then get a small lion. Thanks again! Sean Patrick Whelan <Welcome Sean. BobF>

FOWLR Stkg.   10/12/08 HI WWM crew <Dean> I'm starting a 5ft saltwater aquarium. FOWLR. With separate external filter sump. The fish I want to get are as follows. 4 percula clowns 1 longnose butterfly 1 scopas tang 1 coral beauty 1 royal gramma Are all these fish compatible and suitable for the tank <Yes> Are there any in the list that could prove difficult to care for <Mmm, perhaps the Butterfly... I would place it last... giving the organisms on your rock, many going on to populate the substrate, opportunity to spread, stabilize this system... and do take special care in picking out the Angel... some specimens of coral beauties are very "rough"... almost impossible to "turn around" from their collection, handling, shipping damage... Do read on WWM re livestock selection, this Centropyge in particular> Thanks a lot. Dean <Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Re: FOWLR lvstk.  10/12/08
Would any other fish be able to be added or would that be the maximum amount of livestock for that tank Thanks alot <... no such word> Dean <Others could go with adequately breaking up the environment... with rock, decor... B>  would I be able to keep a coral banded shrimp in this aquarium? Thanks Dean <S/b.>
Re: FOWLR lvstkg  10/14/08
thanks The tank is 5' by 1' will this narrowness interfere with any of the fishes natural behaviour <Yes, can indeed. B>

Tank-stocking agenda, FOWLR, 55  09/12/08 Awesome resource, everyone. Thanks for the invaluable information! <Welcome> Experienced freshwater/cichlid aquarist wading (sorry ;-) ) into saltwater for the first time. <Ahh, zee plongee!> I'm nearing the end of my cycling process in a 55 gallon set up. I have 53 lbs LR and about 2" (+/- 50 lbs) of a seeded LS mix (about 40% live, 60% non-living when I added it). My water quality is right on: ammonia = 0, salinity = 1.023, <I'd raise this... to NSW strength... 1.025-6> Temp = 77-78F and steady. Two small powerheads create some decent movement in opposite corners, both toward the center of the tank. My next step is a satellite lighting system then hopefully some inverts/fish which is why I'm writing. My intentions/hopes are: 1 Maroon Clownfish <Can become a bruiser... the only fish here in some cases> (or 2 Ocellaris or Perculas), 1 Australian Scott's Fairy Wrasse, 1 juvenile Koran Angel, <Mmm, no... not enough room> 1 juvenile Bursa or Picasso Trigger. <Ditto> I'd like to add a BTA as well and maybe a long-spined urchin or two. <... wait off on these till you have more experience...> My questions are 1.) When adding an anemone and clownfish in hopes to create a hosting situation, which should be added first? <See WWM in future, but don't try just yet...> 2.) How 'mature' must a tank be before adding a BTA? <Mature... a few to several months...> 3.) I know I'm probably hopeful beyond most experiences intending a Bursa/Picasso in a tank with a BTA and long-spined urchins; provided that the Trigger is small when introduced (2") is it at all likely that a.) it won't bother either or b.) the Clown will protect its anemone (obviously this assumes it takes the BTA as its host). <Not going to happen in this small volume. I discourage your trying> As of now I plan to introduce the fish in an order as follows: 1. Maroon Clown, 2. ASF Wrasse, 3. Koran Angel, 4. Trigger. Is this advisable? <No> When should I try the BTA or do you advise against it altogether? <The latter> I've asked several questions in one, I hope you can make sense of it in the format I've used. Thanks again for all the info. You've offered a huge amount of help in the process thus far and certainly will continue to do so. Joe V. <Keep reading for now Joe... I don't want you to get so bummed out from bad experiences that you give up the hobby. What you propose here won't work. Bob Fenner>
Re: Tank-stocking agenda, FOWLR, 55  9/12/08
Bob, <Joe> I appreciate the quick response. And thanks for the suggestions. Don't worry about my being put off by the info; I'm searching for the right information because at this point I prefer to learn by researching rather than (bad) experience. <You are wise here> For the sake of the process, the money spent and most of all, providing the proper environment for these guys. I'll reconsider, keep reading and let you know what I arrive upon. Next time I write it me be re: 200 gallons ;-) Thanks again. Joe V. <Welcome! BobF>

Wrasse Compatibility/Stocking - 55 gal FOWLR  9/18/09 Crew, I'm currently in the process of planning my stock for a 55 gallon FOWLR tank. Obviously for any new tank there can be tons of options so while it's an exciting time, I'm committing myself to having the plan laid out before making any expensive purchases or costly stocking decisions. Upon Bob's better judgment I've scrapped Plan A (Maroon, Fairy, Koran, Bursa) and it's back to the drawing board. <Good> I'm showing 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrites, 8.0-8.4 pH, 1.026 specific gravity (upped that a bit a week ago on Bob's recommendation - Thanks again!) 10-20 Nitrates ppm. 53 lbs LR, 2-3" LS (~50 lbs). A few questions in specific regards to Wrasses: 1. I'm strongly considering 2 species. A Sixline (Pseudocheilinus hexataenia) and a Scott's Fairy (Cirrhilabrus scottorum) (My LFS currently has a beautiful 4" Australian specimen; though it also has a beautiful 3-digit price tag.) So the question here is which should I introduce to the system first? The Scott's Fairy or the smaller, though probably more feisty Sixline (2")? <Mmm, what else is to go here?> 2. Also, I've seen a few references made on WWM as to QT and Wrasses. Should typical QT practices not apply to Wrasses? Should I just drip acclimate, dip and add? <I would do the latter with these species> 3. I'd also like to add a Maroon Clown. Which should I add first of these three? Or is this a one-or-the-other situation? <I would not keep a Premnas in this size, shape system with other fishes... It's too likely to bully them... to the extreme. Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/marclncompfaqs.htm> 4. I understand the Sixlines offer a bit of 'housekeeping' by feeding on small LR inhabitants. Is a general diet of Mysis, Brine, et al. sufficient for the Sixline in addition to what the LR/LS already offers? <Yes> Thanks so much, Joe V. <Please... learn to/use the search tool, indices... on WWM. BobF>

New Tank Stocking 09/08/08 Good day Crew, <Eric> Thank you in advance for your assistance. I read so much on a daily basis.. at times the words run together! <Mmm... I try drinking less coffee and caffeinated diet sodas... getting up, away every hour or so from the keyboard... reflecting paragraph to paragraph, asking myself "what is this saying?"> I am setting up a new saltwater tank and just have a quick question. I have a bare tank (in the planning stages.. have yet to figure out filtration, etc. I have not bought any of the following livestock or the filtration system. It will be well filtered with high levels of mechanical and biological filtration, and will of course have a great skimmer. Here is my proposed stock list: 1. Zebra Moray Eel (Gymnomuraena zebra) 2. Yellow Eye Kole Tang (Ctenochaetus strigosus) 3. Flame Angel (Centropyge loriculus) 4. Wrasse (Lunare, Blue, or some other related Wrasse) 5. Long Spine Urchin (Diadema setosum) 6. Turbo Snails (Turbo sp.) <These last two may prove incompatible with the Eel and Wrasse> The most important are the Zebra Eel and the Flame Angel. <These two can co-exist fine together... the Gymnomuraena needs a good volume more... at least a hundred gallon system> I am a bit concerned re: the Compatibility of the Flame and the Kole (will add the Kole first) <These two should do fine together as well> and I'm concerned about the Eel/Wrasse and the Urchin. <You should be... too likely the eel will damage itself... the Thalassomas will eat them if hungry> I have read that the Urchin has the long spines to protect itself, but I'm a bit doubtful. Again, thank you very much for your assistance! Eric <Do keep reading, accumulating notes for now... This is the best path to assuring future success. Bob Fenner>
Re: New Tank Stocking, FOWLR  9/9/08
Hi Bob, <Eric> I really appreciate the help. I've been doing a ton of reading, and actually (after writing) saw a picture of 2 Lunare Wrasses dismantling and eating an Urchin, so that's a no go. Also, I wouldn't want the clumsy (and somewhat vision impaired) Eel getting hurt by the spines. <Good> I forgot to mention that I have a 75 gallon tank, so I think that the Zebra eel will be out. <Agreed> I've read a lot of conflicting info.. some say 75 gallons is the minimum, some say 100 gallons.. I tend to think it grows too large for my 75 and will be a messy eater. <See my article re this species on WWM...> Here's my updated list, in order of introduction. Can you give a moderate critique? (I promise this won't be a recurring theme!) <I can, will> 1. Small shoal of Damsels (lesser aggressive types, such as the Yellow-Tailed Blue or possibly Chromis, though I bet they'll get picked on by the Wrasse) 2. Kole Tang 3. Snowflake Eel (friendlier than most eels, and smaller than Zebra) 4. Flame Angel 5. Lunare Wrasse <This mix could work... as you state/hint, the Lunare may prove to be too raucous...> All these previously mentioned fish will be added at about a rate of 1 per month or so, and I'll buy them small. Once the fish start getting bigger, I'll relocate the Damsels to other tanks ( I have other homes for them). <Ah, good> Does this seem like the correct order? Also, slight possibility of the tank being overstocked? <I'd place in the order you list above> Thanks again, I honestly appreciate it!! Eric (P.S... in my research, I went to YouTube and saw some videos of my prospective fish 'in action'.. good place to go for additional insight, although I wouldn't trust their information.. I saw a video that had a Bamboo shark and about 1/2 dozen other small- too large fish in a 75 gallon tank! awful..) <Thank you for this. Bob Fenner>

FOWLR compatibility question?, 9/4/08 First off I have to say I love your site and use it regularly to research new fish and also to gain new information. <Great> I currently have a 46 gal tank with about 75 pounds of live rock and also have about 50 pounds of live sand. As of right now I have one flame cardinal and a dwarf or falco hawk and I was thinking about adding one or two more fish to my system in which I would like to get a Valentini puffer and/or a Picasso trigger. <The Picasso gets way to big for this tank, the Toby may work, but I would be concerned with the Hawkfish, which it may nip due to it's sedentary behavior.> I have been looking for a hardy fish that is also very active and entertaining to watch and happen to come across these two at the my LFS and was wondering what your opinion would be on these two fish? Thanks Chris <Definitely no on the trigger, and I would probably skip the Toby as well. Perhaps on of the smaller wrasses or a pair of good old clowns would work here. Lots of other choices available as well.> <Chris>

FOWLR System Stocking 08/29/08 Dear Crew, <<Steve>> I have a Sea Clear system II 125, already aged 3 yrs with a 1 mandarin, 1 yellow tang, 1 blue tang, 7 chromis, 1 imperator angel, 1 Pseudochromis, 1 cleaner shrimp, 1 clown, 1 coral beauty, 1 emerald crabs. All doing very well. Are these guys compatible with a Naso tang and Heniochus acuminatus butterfly fish? <<Compatible, yes but too much for this already well stocked tank. Best to pass on these additions and allow the fishes you have to continue to mature, grow, and live with some room to do so, in my opinion>> Thank you, Steve <<Happy to share. EricR>>

Over stocked marine tank. Stocking Concessions-Considering the "End Game"  8/21/08 Hello all. <Hey there! Scott F. in today!> I have a 500ltr main tank with a 200ltr sump. I moved from freshwater to marine about months ago and have built up a nice stock of fish. But as the fish have started to grow I have found that I am now over stocked and want to remove one or two fish to allow me to buy a banner fish which I have taken a shine to. <It happens all the time! I commend you on your awareness, and the desire to rectify the situation!> Stock - fish 6" Niger trigger 7" Regal tang - Kids are fond of this one 5" Yellow Tang 2 x 3" Clown fish 3 x 5" Convict Blennies 3 x 3" Green Chromis 4" Tasseled Filefish 3" Purple Dottyback 4" Red Hawkfish. <Whew! That IS overstocked for a 500 liter aquarium...you will definitely have to make some concessions here!> Inverts Various turbo snails Large brittle star Sand sifter red and black urchin (name unknown) Coral banded shrimp 2x scarlet cleaner shrimps Various hermit crabs other unidentified crabs (poss. Emerald but hard to find and not bought intentionally) Firstly am I over stocked ( I think I could be). Secondly what recommendations would you make to get the stock ratio right. Many thanks in advance Paul Brindle <OK, Paul, let's think it through. It helps to consider the ultimate potential adult size of the fish that we keep. Even in the confines of an aquarium, these fishes will reach large sizes and suffer as a result. The Trigger, in particular, needs huge amounts of physical space, produces copious amounts of metabolic waste, and just gets plain old mean as it grows. With a number of other larger fishes in the aquarium, this is not a viable long-term choice for this system, IMO. Even though the Regal is a gorgeous fish, and very commonly kept, I'm of the opinion that they need HUGE systems to live in-like thousands of liters. They are potentially very large fishes, and need large quarters to live happy lives...they can live over 20 years in captivity! Consider finding a much larger home for this fish in the near future. The Tassled Filefish can get pretty large, and is a potentially voracious predator on your smaller invertebrate life. The other fishes are good choices, but do keep eye on the Convict Blennies! In the end, I think that you'll do well with some of these trade offs-and more important, your fishes will do well. Remember the "end game" when stocking an aquarium, and you'll become very adept at making good stocking choices in the future! Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Over stocking, SW FOWLR ... double-posted?   8/22/08 Hello all. <Paul> I have a 500ltr main tank with a 200ltr sump. <Good proportionality> I moved from tropical to marine about 18 months ago and have built up a nice stock of fish. But as the fish have started to grow I have found that I am now over stocked and want to remove one or two fish to allow me to buy a banner fish which I have taken a shine to. <Mmm, okay... many Heniochus are social though> Stock - fish 6" Niger trigger 7" Regal tang - Kids are fond of this one 5" Yellow Tang 2 x 3" Clown fish 3 x 5" convict blennies 3 x 3" green chromis 4" tasseled filefish 3" purple Dottyback 4" red Hawkfish. Inverts Various turbo snails Large brittle star Sand sifter red and black urchin (name unknown) Coral banded shrimp 2x scarlet cleaner shrimps Various hermit crabs other unidentified crabs (poss. emerald but hard to find and not bought intentionally) Firstly am I over stocked ( I think I could be). <Mmm, you're "right about there"... with growth, yes> Secondly what recommendations would you make to get the stock ratio right. <Mmm, either the Filefish (which will get too big) or the Odonus (which may prove too aggressive soon)> Many thanks in advance Paul Brindle <Welcome! Bob Fenner>

Stkg. 75 gal., FIWLR  7/20/08Hi all, It's me again, sorry about all the stocking questions all the time, just don't want to over crowd, and I still have fish I would love to have if I could. Right now, I have a Pink Skunk Clown fish, a Six line Wrasse, a Flame Angel, 3 Green Chromises, a Lawnmower Blenny, a Fire fish, a Chalk Bass, a Serpent Star, a Skunk Cleaner Shrimp, 2 Feather Dusters, 2 Emerald Crabs, a Sally Light Foot, and assorted Mushrooms all in a 75 gallon tank. I have a Remora Pro, and an Emperor 400 that I only run with 2 generic cut to fit filter pads, and 80 lbs of live rock. I do a 20% water change, replace the filters in the Emperor, and clean the protein skimmer pre filter every Friday morning. I wanted to know if you think this is maxed out. What I still really like for fish are, another Pink Skunk Clown, a Fairy Wrasse, another star fish, and or more Mushrooms. I would also like to take out the three Chromis and give them to a friend. Do you think I can add any of these to my tank with/without taking out the Green Chromises? And if so, which ones? Also, how would suggest getting the Green Chromises out of the tank? Aside from taking the whole take apart. And last, how often would you suggest giving the whole protein skimmer a vinegar bath, to clean out the inside. Thanks again, Marc P.S. Do you think feeding the fish a half of cube of frozen food once in the morning and once at night is sufficient, or too much? <I do not believe your aquarium is maxed out. A 75 gallon tank is large enough for fish such as clowns, fire fish, etc. You may want to add a tang such as a yellow or purple, maybe even a bristle mouth tang such as a Chevron or Kole for algae control. I would also clean the protein skimmer as it becomes full with waste. Hope this helps, IanB>

Stocking question, Marine 7/4/08 Hey Guys, <Hello> I really enjoy the site, lots of great info there! <Thanks> I have some questions about the stocking of my tank, and what you think of it so far. I have a 30 Gallon saltwater system, with 35 pounds of live rock, a Prizm Skimmer, (rated for 100 gal) <Does not have a great reputation.> two smallish powerheads for circulation. I have finished adding fish to it, I added them over a period of a few months, one or two at a time. The order went as such 1 Ocellaris Clown (Genghis), followed by two more a few weeks later (Kublai and Attila) as I was told that adding just one more would lead to one of them probably killing the other. <Actually 2 will most likely pair up and kill the third as they mature.> The cleanup crew came after that, over a period of a few weeks. The cleanup crew comprises 2 scarlet hermits, five tiny blue legged hermits, five neisseira <Nassarius?> snails, and a Monaco shrimp (Paul). Finally I have added a scooter blenny and a coral beauty angelfish. <Both of these need larger tanks, the angel will outgrow this tank and the scooter "blenny" (really a dragonet) will not be able to find sufficient food.> I don't plan on adding any more. The fish are all eating well and swimming around fairly energetically. The clowns have found a niche by the heater, and the Angel sits behind one chunk of live rock most of the time, coming out and swimming around every now and again. They come out a lot more during the day. Am I overstocking this tank? <Not really overstocked, but inappropriately stocked in my opinion.> Every other site I have found states that a 30 gal tank should be sufficient and my LFS said it should be fine, but I don't want the fish to be unhappy so want to check as your site suggests a larger tank for what I have. <I would agree with what you found on our site.> I am also having a lot of algae problems... though I was told this is normal for a new tank... I'm getting brown algae, lots of green hairy algae, and following that a but of this nasty purple goopy stuff that bubbles a lot (I'm guessing Cyanobacteria, so I try to clean it out when it happens). <Its common for this to happen in new tanks, but you want to control it as best as you can since it is quite difficult to remove once it has gotten a foothold.> It usually comes back a few days after I've cleaned it off. I do a 3-5 gal water change every couple weeks, and my water chemistry is as follows S.G 1.026, pH 8.3-8.4, Alkalinity is in the normal range, Temp 78-79 F, Nitrate almost 0, Ammonia is less than .25, but above zero, though this is a few days after adding the last fish so probably doing a little cycle of sorts. <Watch this very closely, ammonia is very toxic even in small amounts, be prepared for extra water changes.> Should I expect the algae to go away soon, or should I try switching to RO/DI water? <I use RO/DI, removes some guesswork, but time will tell if you need it or not.> (Currently use tap water but it apparently has no nitrate, phosphate etc when I tested it). <Good> I also cut back on the amount I feed them, I feed them New Life Spectrum flakes with garlic, some green Nori seaweed, and mysis shrimp (frozen) for some variety. <May want to feed every other day for a while to get the algae under control.> I do hope to eventually add some soft corals too. Does this tank have a chance of succeeding? <You have some stocking issues, but the basic setup has a good chance of success.> I'd hate for anything to die or even suffer here. Thanks so much for your help. I have looked over a LOT of your stocking suggestions etc, but nothing that really addressed my specific situation. Eric <I would look for new homes for 1 of the clowns, the angel, and scooter blenny, then find a couple of more appropriate fish.> <Chris>

120g FOWLR Livestock Plan 06/29/08 I'm finally getting there! Eric gave me some good tips on my livestock plan so I have revised and am ready for a review before I start stocking. <<Okey-Dokey JeanEric here again lets see what you have>> I've attached the last email, so you can delete it but wanted you to be able to see the backup info. <<Thank youis always helpful and requested>> Quick summary: Current: 20 gal tank with 14# live rock and a DSB with plenum, current occupants, 6 year old cinnamon clown (A. melanopus) and 6 month old mandarin (Synchiropus splendidus), <<And just to reiterate for other readers edificationthis tank is too small for both these fishescombined OR on their own>> 4 red mushrooms (7 yr old), and green star polyps (3x3 size) with a half dozen blue legged hermit crabs. Upgrading to: 120 gal 2x2x4 tank, running since 6-4-08 (just over 3 weeks - so very young yet). <<Indeed>> Euro-Reef 180 skimmer, Eheim 1262 return pump, Current Sundial T5HO 4x54 watts (have them on only 5 hr a day at this time, since don't have anything in the tank per se), 125# live rock, 1 inch sugar fine sand in display (inoculated with 1 cup from 20 gal tank) and 50 gal refugium with 6" deep sand bed (sugar fine) also inoculated with another cup from 20 gal tank. Refugium lights on for 12 hrs at night. 3 Maxi-Jet 1200 and 2 Koralia-4 circulating the tank. Added a good number of copepods (from my LFS's tanks), 3 Astrea turban snails and 4 Nassarius snails along with Chaetomorpha linum and some red macroalgae (looks like red Gracilaria) on 6-22-08. <<Mmm Though many folks do this, I dont recommend combining different species of macroalgae in the refugium. These organisms compete for space just like any otherreleasing chemicals to inhibit the others growth or even kill it outright. Such activity, aside from the obvious harm caused, engages energies/processes better spent on the reasons you placed the macroalgae in the refugium in the first place>> Feeding the tank/copepods phytoplankton daily (1T/day). <<Do be cautious/monitor closelyis easy to overdo>> Since my rock was already cured and I used live sand with some from my old tank, I'm not sure if I've "cycled" or not, <<Observation/testing will reveal thisbut no need to be in a rush. I think I have already stated that the longer you let this tank run sans fishy livestock the better it will be>> so am hoping that with the addition of the snails, I may be cycling/cycled (can I be cycled with my nitrate at zero?). <<Um, yesthough this should be monitored with each addition>> So my question is not only around my stocking but whether or not I should do anything else before stocking? <<While this tank continues to run, and in the absence of fishes and associated foodstuffs added reI would be adding some protein in the form of a pinch of flake food or my favorite for this, a few shrimp pellets every couple days. Doing so will help to grow and sustain those organisms that require such>> I plan on quarantining for 3 weeks so if I get my first fish, it would be a minimum of 3 weeks before it goes into the display (have a filter sponge in my 20gal that is seeded and ready). Testing (using Salifert tests) so far: 6/28/2008 Spg: 1.026 pH: 8.2 Temp: 81 NH4: <0.25 <<Should be 0this tank is NOT cycled>> NO2: 0 NO3: went from 0 last week to 1 this week with the addition of the snails, copepods and macroalgae <<Not unusualand the reason I say to test after each additionas it seems you are doing>> P04: 0.5 <<Best to get this to 0.02 or below>> dKH: 8.4 Alk: 2.98 Ca: 400 I started out using Mike Paletta's stocking suggestions and since reading Bob's conscientious Marine Aquarist and his and Anthony's Reef Invertebrates. I went through the CMA and read about all fish - wanting to keep the copepod competition down so the mandarin gets most of the copepods; I eliminated the Longnose Hawkfish and the Midas Blenny from my list. I wanted a Jawfish, but I chose to keep the DSB in my refugium, so guess he is also off my list. Eric, you asked me what I like so I went through the CMA and here are my picks...I'd love your feedback as well as suggestions as far as the order of introduction (I know it is usually the peaceful first, aggressive last). <<Indeedand I am happy to offer my opinions here (as usual [grin])>> I tried to stick to easier fish and more peaceful, but I'm not sure how "peaceful" these all are, which is why I'm coming to the experts. 1. Amphiprion melanopus (Cinnamon Clown) - from old tank, thinking last since she is probably the most aggressive (she is used to having the world to herself). <<Hee-hee! This is an aggressive fish, regardlessand in more than three decades of petfish keeping, is the only fish species Ive been lucky enough to have draw blood! (I used to keep Piranhas that were less scary to work around than a well acclimated/established Cinnamon Clownfish can be!)>> Will keep her in the 20 gal if you think she is a roadblock to these fish - I'm looking for a more peaceful tank - and clowns are not peaceful from what I read. <<Is a Damsel ya know>> 2. Synchiropus splendidus (Mandarin) - (from old tank) also thinking of adding last to allow my copepods to grow in the refugium since she is doing good in the 20 gal; which I know is too small but the rock is apparently keeping her fat and happy along with the Cyclop-Eeze, Arctic Pods, and live brine shrimp I'm feeding her (the clown's not complaining either). <<I think the jury is still out on this fishbut time will tell>> 3. Zebrasoma xanthurus (Purple Tang) or Z. flavescens (Yellow Tang) how many months do you think the tangs need - since my rock doesn't have algae yet - except for the rock that will come from the 20 gal? <<Not to worrythe alga component can be easily supplemented (I like the Sea Veggies offerings from Two Little Fishies>> I know I'll feed them other sources as well, but don't want to put them in a premature tank either. <<The longer the better My tank ran fishless for seven months at startupand yes, it is difficult to wait/look at a fishless tank for so long>> 4. Acanthurus japonicus (White faced Tang) or A. pyroferus (Chocolate Tang) - same as above - would plan on introducing both in the tank at the same time if I can. 5. You had also recommended possible Ctenochaetus strigosus (Kole Tang), but unsure if you meant choosing between the Acanthurus and Ctenochaetus or both. <<I meant one or the other>> Would 3 tangs be too much for a 120? <<Mmmthis is starting to push the envelope I thinkthough the species you have listed would be the best choices re, in my opinion. But stillbetter to stick to two specimens>> 6. Centropyge loricula (Fame Angel) or C. bispinosus (Coral Angel) or C argi (Cherub/Pygmy Angelfish) - also needs algae for grazing <<And just one more reason to let the tank mature for some months>> - they also will compete somewhat for the copepods? <<Yes>> Should this one go before/after the tangs? <<Although not passive in nature, I would add this fish before any tangs>> 7. Pterapogon kauderni (Banggai Cardinalfish): would like a school (no more than 5) of them and think they would be introduced in the beginning, since they are shy? <<I have rarely seen this fish cohabitate as a school in captive systems and then not for long. Usually a dominant pair will form and badger the others to the point of death from starvation/stress>> Since I need to introduce them together, might be too much of a test for the new tank although Bob says they need an established system as well. <<Yes and is best for all>> I have lots of hiding places ready for them. You suggested the Pajama Cardinals as more successful and may need to choose them instead as much as I love the Banggai. <<I very much suggest this, yes>> 8. Gramma loreto (Royal Gramma): I'm thinking he may be the first one to add? <<Noof those listed thus far, I would add the Cardinals firstthen the Gramma>> 9. Heniochus acuminatus (Long-fin Bannerfish): These looked like some really cool schoolers as well (pg 235). Should be introduced all at once as well? Number? Five? <<Way too many for this tank (grows to nearly a foot in length in the wild). No more than one if you wish to keep adding other fishes here>> 10. Johnrandallia nigrirostris (Barberfish) (p239): Another cool species that could also be kept in a school? <<Seemingly so, and a better choice than the Heniochus re relative size>> Could I keep 2-3 schools (Bannerfish, Barberfish and Cardinals)? <<Not in this volume Perhaps a half-dozen Cardinals (Pajama, hopefully) and a pair of the Barberfish. One must not forget the Tangs and other fishes you also want to add. Else, you need to rethink what you wish to do with this tankperhaps a species tank with a schooling fish as the primary inhabitants and the rest built around this choice>> (I'm sure I can hear you groaning at this point!) <<That obvious, eh [grin]>> 11. Forcipiger flavissimus (Yellow Long-nosed Butterflyfish) or F. longirostris (Big Long-nosed Butterflyfish) (p241): Bob says that they are good "first timer's Butterflyfishes, so added them to my list, but do they go with this list? <<Yesbut now you are getting to the point where you must start to decide between one or the other based on space limitations. Im sure this new 120g tank seems huge as compared to the 20gbut it is not infinite in what it can suitably/responsibly house>> 12. Cirrhilabrus punctatus (Finespotted Fairy Wrasse): They also may eat copepods as a secondary source, but I see wrasses recommended often and these are beautiful. <<Yesand jumpers too>> 13. Pholidichthys leucotaenia (Convict Blenny): (not a true blenny I guess). Can keep in a group or single? <<Yes>> Maybe another possibility for one of the first to be introduced? <<Yes againthough maybe a more cryptic species than you will prefer>> 14. Gobiosoma oceanops or evelynae (Neon Goby): for their janitorial duties and coolness. 15. Linckia or Fromia starfish? I like the orange Fromia star or the red reef starfish and the orange Linckia. <<Stick to the Fromia speciesmuch more aquarium suitable than the Linckia species>> Not sure if I need one and if so, for the display and/or refugium? (don't want carnivorous ones) <<These are omnivorous creaturesand better in the display than the refugia>> I'm thinking of not transferring my hermit crabs to my big tank - they ate all my snails and my coral banded shrimp in my 20 gal. <<Yesvery opportunistic>> Any other detritus or sand shifting invertebrates that you would suggest? <<A few more Nassarius snails and some Cerith snailsadded to both the display and the refugium>> I am willing to switch any around - I'm not dedicated to any - so if I need to skip the tangs to keep the schoolers, I'm willing...just have my heart set on keeping the mandarin happy and providing a home for rest of the clown's life. <<Understood If you skip the Tang and Heniochus species, and probably Forcipiger too, you could have a trio of Barberfish and a small school of Cardinalfish (5) along with your other choices, and have a more successful yet still very nice display I think>> If she is the problem to having a peaceful tank, then I'll keep her in the 20 gal and build the 120 without her. <<She may be fine in the 120though she will likely be the boss>> Also, don't want to overstock so am not saying I want all 15 choices if it overloads the system. <<Indeed it wouldgreatly so in my opinion>> You've been with me through the design and I've learned so much! <<Ah, very goodbut more to go, yes? Do keep reading my friend>> I sure don't want to make a mistake with the livestock. <<Then please take your time and consider your options/choices carefully>> I'm also willing to wait as long as it takes, so if you say add one or none now and wait for 3 months, I'll do that too. <<Hee-hee! I say wait three months (or longer!) before adding ANY!>> It's a big investment and patience is the key to success. <<Ah yesan investment in money AND lives>> Thanks Eric or Bob and all of you, you've been great! <<We are all happy to share>> This wouldn't be possible, at least successfully, without all of you. <<And dont forget your partreading, researchingand caring. Is quite the collective effort indeed. Cheers, Eric Russell>>

Re: 120g FOWLR Livestock Plan - 06/29/08 Thank you so much Eric for your advice! <<Is my pleasure to share, Jean>> My husband is worried for my sanity because he said there must be something wrong when one can just sit and stare at rocks in a tank watching for any type of growth. <<Hee-hee! Not a fish nerd, eh?>> Thinks I'm just seeing things since he doesn't get down on the floor (like me) to see the copepods moving around in the refugium. <<Indeedand much more to come!>> So I'll tell him that I'm not crazy and the tank will remain fishless for the summer! <<Excellent! It will truly gain form this>> Couple of questions before I go though; the Salifert tests don't go to 0 for the ammonia tests; there is no color when I test, so < 0.25 is the lowest the tests go. <<Ah, okayis probably fine then>> What is your suggestion to remove the phosphate? <<This should sort out on its own at this point, as the tank/rock/sand bed continues to mature>> Could it be the phytoplankton that is adding it? <<This is a possibility, yesand easy to test>> I'm using CaribSea seawater at this point, so it can't be coming from the water. <<Mmm, have you tested for such? Also, I highly suggest you obtain a quality mix (Tropic Marin or Seachemor better yet, both and blend together) and start making/storing your own saltwater for this much larger tank. Do a keyword search on our sight reand give me a shout if you need to discuss further>> When I add top off water I'm using R/O water that I tested and its zero for phosphates. <<Stop dosing the Phytoplankton and see what happensthough this Phosphate reading could also be attributed to any new rock thats been added>> Would you recommend that I add the extra snails and the Fromia now to keep the sand clean? If not, when? 1. Fromia starfish 2. Nassarius snails 3. Cerith snails <<Go ahead and add these now>> Plan: Begin stocking around December - 6 months - just so I have this straight - I continue to run this tank empty (per se) and just feed it shrimp pellets (in display and/or refugium?) and some phytoplankton (watching my ammonia and nitrite levels to ensure they stay zero) and wait for about 6 months before stocking with fish? <<You got it!>> How often would I do water changes during this time? <<There will be biological processes occurring/bio-minerals being utilized, though at a much lower rate than will happen later once stocking begins. You could possibly get by with no water changes during this fallow periodbut a 10% exchange each month cant hurt>> (I'm always amazed at how much I can read and still have so many questions!) <<As we all dobut dont stop reading! [grin]>> Finally, can you help me with the order of introduction then with the revised list? <<Sure>> I have the following: 1. Sphaeramia nematoptera (pajama cardinal) x 5 (first?) <<Yay!!! And, yes!>> 2. Gramma loreto (Royal Gramma) x 1 3. Gobiosoma oceanops (Neon Goby) x 1 4. Pholidichthys leucotaenia (Convict Blenny) x 1 <<These are very social fishesdo get at least two>> (What did you mean by-may be more cryptic than I may prefer?) <<They tend to stay within the rockwork much of the time/wont show themselves much but at feeding timesbut still very neat fish>> 5. Johnrandallia nigrirostris (Barberfish) x 3 6. Cirrhilabrus punctatus (Finespotted Fairy Wrasse) x 1 7. Centropyge (one of the angels - most probably the Flame Angel) 8. Mandarin 9. Cinnamon Clown (last?) <<This order of introduction should be fine>> Again, thanks so much Eric for all your help! <<Always welcome, Jean. Be chatting, Eric Russell>>

R2: 120g FOWLR Livestock Plan - 06/29/08 Eric, also wanted to add one more question to my last reply about the 2 types of macroalgae in my refugium - remembered just after I send the reply - sorry. <<No worries my friendask away>> Should I completely remove one or remove the red macroalgae and put it in my display or put the red in my 20gal for now - the clown may munch on it. <<The Gracilaria seems to be more palatable to herbivorous fishes, I would place this in the display>> Seems the Chaetomorpha is more favored - so am assuming that would be the best one to keep. <<In the refugium, yesin my opinion. It is quite user friendly for this purpose>> <<Regards, EricR>>

Aquarium Sizing & Such, Marine Stocking 6/22/08 Hi, I have a kind of silly question to ask. First, I have 10+ years of freshwater experience, 4 years of brackish and 1+ years of marine. So my basement looks like a fish store, lol. Anyway I would like to set up a show tank, preferably about 200 gallons. Currently I only have damsels and clowns in FOWLR systems. I've learned not to trust coral. The fish I would love to have would be 1 Dwarf Zebra Lionfish 1 Blue Dot Puffer 1 Powder Brown Tang 1 Metallic Foxface Rabbitfish 3 Banggai Cardinal Fish 1 Coral Beauty Angelfish Now I have friends who keep fish too but not really of the kind I'm looking for. One problem is some say yes and some say no. One problem would be that the Blue Dot Puffer would nip at the Dwarf Lionfish, but one of my friends say that as long as the puffer is fed, he won't be a problem. <Not often related to feeding, more along the lines of general aggression/territorial issues. Depends on the individual personalities of the fish.> Is that correct, or do I owe my friend a smack? <Smack them anyways.> Another would be that the Lionfish would eat the Banggai Cardinals, but again, I've heard if there is enough rockwork that they are fast enough to not become meals, and if the lionfish is fed right, there won't be a problem with him anyway. <If they can fit in his mouth the lion will most likely try to eat it, and it only has to get it right once.> Is that all correct? I've also looked up how big an aquarium should be, but it only comes up per fish. If it's all added up, it should be a 350 gallons. That just seems like it would be too much open space to not enough fish. <Not really possible in my opinion but I know what you mean.> So would it be ok to place them in a 200 or 250 gal? <This would probably work, the tang needs the most room here, at least six feet of straight line swimming room.> Is 350 the minimum? I want to move my hobby upstairs, that is why I want a show tank. I'm just afraid a 350 gal (even a 250) might be too heavy and bust through the floor. <Definitely a concern.> I live in a house built in 1950. How do I test my floors without taking the risk of just filling up a 350? <I would call a professional and have them take a look.> Sorry if this is just a "duh!" question. Thank you for your time. <Welcome>
<Chris>

Question regarding stocking - Sorry, this is a long one, FOWLR  - 6/20/08 Hello Guys/Gals of "the crew" of my favorite website. <I'm flattered! Benjamin here today.> I've been reading up on specific fish for the past 2 weeks straight now, at least an hour or two a day from your website and I'm still probably only about halfway through the information that relates to what I'm proposing to do, simply amazing how much information is compiled here, I really appreciate the time you guys put into this. <Thank you. This is a tremendous resource...I am amazed by the information stored here by my predecessors; continually learning from my counterparts> Instead of asking questions every day when I had a new one, I've been slowly compiling this email and adding or removing questions as I read through WWM, consequently it has gotten long but I think it's shorter overall than if I had asked a question every day or two as they popped up :) And with this method I've been able to take quite a few questions off the list as I figure out the answer on my own. <Thanks for your conscientious effort!> Up until now, I've always kept a reef tank. While it is beautiful, I find it kind of boring in that nothing really moves around much. I was fascinated at first and I still am from time to time, but it's time for me to move on I think. The corals wave in the "breeze" and I have a couple smaller fish that move around, but nothing big that catches the eye and moves all around the tank, I want an active tank now. <Hmm....large reefs can have large, beautiful fish as well...all a question of space and careful stocking> A lot of the corals I have are some of the more needy species, I spot feed them every other day and have to keep my water quality pristine, it isn't really "work" as I enjoy it, but it does consume quite a bit of my time, I'd like to cut back. They are only in a 75g tank but I have about 150g total water volume, my sump is actually 2x bigger than my display tank but only about half full since that's the nature of a sump. Kind of a shame to waste all that room, but at the same time my corals really appreciate the stability and the cleanliness that the extra water seems to provide. <Indeed...a good situation for all.> Anyway, I'm just clarifying that I have been keeping high water quality saltwater tanks going for a couple years now without much incident. I'm interested now in trying to keep angelfish, singular and maybe plural depending on what the reply back is. I recently came into a 180g aquarium, my local pet store was having a huge sale and it was too good for me to pass up. <I would love to "come into" a large system...but would need to mortgage my family to do so!> I've been wanting to get out of the coral reef setup and into a FOWLR, this seems to be the perfect opportunity for me. My stocking plans are this... I'd like to have 3 or 4 Yellow tangs (my wife's favorite fish bar none), <I wouldn't go with that many...pushing it. One or two will ultimately be more enjoyable.> a Purple tang, and a angelfish, perhaps two. I've seen incredible aquariums with 10-20 angelfish crammed into them and would love to be able to do that, but I understand that is like putting 20 murderers into the same prison cell. Sure, they will survive for a while, but will they be happy and not fight? Highly unlikely, and you cant turn around without stepping on someone's toes. <Bingo...not good long term.> I'd also like to get two blue throat triggers, male/female pair, I really like the way triggerfish move and from the research I've done, the blue throats seem to be pretty mild as far as triggerfish go, not to mention I really think they are gorgeous fish. Not really flashy like some species, but they just are a pretty fish, kind of like how some women look better without makeup. And if I didn't end up going with the blue throats, I'd probably go with a harlequin tusk. <This is possible, but I wouldn't recommend angels AND triggers. I think you could have a really splendid aquarium with a pair of triggers, some good aquascaping, and a few medium-small companions> I'd love a Regal angel instead of the Emperor or Queen but I've just read too much negative press about them and how they eventually end up dying even if eating like pigs, I don't want to get attached to a fish and know it will die within a year or two, so I've decided against Regals although I sure would like one :) So that is 8 or 9 fish total in a 180g (220g total water volume) and probably one or two more sand sifting goby types. I'll have plenty of live rock (I plan on trying to make my own for the main tank so I can have it exactly the contours and shapes I want, then I'll put "real" live rock into the 75g sump, and maybe a piece or two of the real stuff into the display tank) and good filtration, both biological and mechanical. I'm planning on ordering a EV-240 with the Mag 12 pump that will go into the sump and I'll have some Caulerpa and perhaps some other macro algae type in there as well. I'll probably use two Eheim 1262 pumps to return to the main tank and then I've got 4 of the Koralia size 4 power heads which claim to be around 900 gph but in my thinking aren't nearly that much. <You might be surprised...these are good powerheads> However, I should have a good amount of current and turbulent water. I have multiple questions... 1) I'd really like an Imperator angelfish. I also like the Queen angelfish. I realize both of these can reach 12-18" with good water quality/food/time. I fully expect to upgrade to a 300g in the future, but after looking around on the web and seeing what a LFS has to offer, I would probably be getting either of the fish at only about 3-4 inches, so I'd assume I could house them in a 180g for a couple years before needing to move to a bigger tank? Is that correct? <My advice is never to use a 100 watt fuse in a 150 watt socket, if you get my drift. Waiting until you have a properly sized system will be better for both you and the fish.> And what are my chances of being successful with two of the larger marine angel species in the same tank? <In a truly huge tank, maybe. In a 300 or smaller, don't count on it.> I realize it isn't recommended but if possible I'd like to try it, and like I say I'm 100% planning on upgrading my tank to around 300g within 2 years or so. And also, any problems with aggression between a Imperator and/or Queen angel and Yellow/Purple tangs? I realize there might be some small nipping and snapping to establish dominance between the tangs and angels, but I assume after everyone settles in there should be relatively little bickering as the tangs are different in both body shape and color when compared to the angels? <If you keep the stocking light, aggression should be limited.> 2) I cant really decide what to do for substrate. I've always had 6" or more deep sand beds in my reef tanks and sumps, but I don't know what I want to do with this 180g. That's a lot of bottom space to cover, 24" by 72" at 6" deep would be a LOT of sand and I'm not sure its necessary in a FOWLR? I'd really rather keep it down to an inch or so, easier to clean if needed and it isn't displacing so much water. <Bare bottom would also be a good option, especially in a tank like this. Of course, if you intend to have sand-sifting gobies I would stick with 1" of sand tops.> I figure a 6" deep sand bed in a 180g tank is taking about 30-40 gallons of water out of my total water volume... I'm having a hard time stomaching that. I would do a good DSB in my sump regardless of what I put in my display tank, so I'd have the denitrifying characteristics of a DSB still in effect. <Yes, the sump DSB would be effective.> Would only an inch or so of aragonite sand be OK as a substrate in a FOWLR of this nature? <Yes> I read around on WWM and I didn't really see anything that covered the substrates angelfish prefer, if any, and also I was curious if you guys/gals had any experience with Southdown play sand? <Not a good idea. Play sand is most likely a silica sand- not suitable for marine use> Seems like a good product for making a cheap sand bed I can later "activate" with a much smaller amount of live sand. <If you're referring to the stuff sold in bags of water, save your money. Not much more 'live' than the dry stuff- and dry will quickly become live with live rock, old substrate, etc.> 3) How long does Selcon stay good if refrigerated? <Most vitamin supplements like this have an effective life of about 6 months *from bottling*> I'm up in Alaska and shipping is usually more expensive than the product itself, so I'd like to order a big thing of Selcon if it lasts for a long time, rather than order small ones once a month. 4) Do I need "good" lighting for a FOWLR with angels? I'd like to stick to something around 150-200 watts, just typical florescent bulbs, maybe one actinic blue and one daylight 10k? <I'd go with more. Your fish don't photosynthesize, but they DO have circadian rhythms dictated by diurnal/nocturnal cycles. I would go with maybe double that watts in PC fluorescent> I don't really want a lot of lighting so that I don't have as much worries about algae, but if the fish are like people and need lighting to process vitamin D and what not, I'll go ahead and provide more significant lighting. I'll probably have about 100 watts for my sump, but that will mainly be over the refugium area of it so the macro algae hopefully grows fast. 5) Cleanup crew in an angel tank? What does this consist of? If I don't go with the Harlequin tusk, I think I'll be able to get away with some hermit crabs and a lot of snails? My question though is that when I see beautiful pictures of people's FOWLR tanks, I almost never see any with snails on the glass. How do they keep the algae down? Or is it just because they are a FOWLR with minimum lighting that they just don't have algae problems? <Snails, or copious glass scraping.> Ideally, I would like to have some snails and crabs just because they are "cool" to watch, but I'm just wondering why I never see pictures of them in most FOWLR tanks? Or is that because the medication people use in their FOWLR's would most likely kill inverts? <Medication would also kill the LR and some of the FO in that setup- medication should always be performed under close supervision in a quarantine tank.> 6) I've heard that Caulerpa is slightly noxious <More than slightly> and not really a good tang/angel food? I just know how easy a time I have growing Caulerpa since I've always done that in my sumps, I'd really like to be able to use this macro algae since I'm familiar with it, but is there better fast growing macro algae that I should be using? I've been reading about Gracilaria, sounds pretty good but maybe slower growing than Caulerpa? If you consider that better than Caulerpa, I'll probably make an order from IPSF a couple months before I get my first fish and get the stuff growing and settled in. I'll probably have some damsels in the tank once the ammonia and nitrates die down, just to have something in there to feed and keep the biological processes going like I want, so the algae should have plenty of nutrition to feed off before I get my main fish. <Consider Chaetomorpha for your sump, and Gracilaria- the trouble with this is it does grow slowly, and your tang will eat it like crazy> 7) How do people get away with placing multiple yellow tangs in the same tank? Almost every large tank (150g or more) I see with a yellow tang doesn't have just one, they have 3 or more but I see recommended on WWM to only place one per tank. Personally I'd much rather go with a school of yellows than with just one but everything I read says only place one in a tank however I'm hoping there is some magic number like 3 or 4 that I could put in there. <Not all fish are schoolers. You will note that the tanks with a large number of fish don't have exploratory, happy fish- they have what looks like a choreographed traffic problem. Milling all over, never stopping, never actually going anywhere.> If not, is there a different type of fish you would recommend that is both bright and active, but handles a couple of the same species in the same tank? And hopefully wont fight with a Imperator or Queen angel? Or I was also thinking, would I be better off keeping maybe 3-4 purple tangs and no yellows? Would they accept a "schooling" type situation better than a yellow? <No> 8) Neon gobies with this stocking plan? <May wind up as food for a larger species...as is often the case with cleaner species> I was hoping to have one or two for their parasite picking abilities <Limited in aquaria> and the fact that they are just a funny little fish but I haven't been able to find anything referring to how yellow/purple tangs and the angelfish would treat them? <My recommendation is to look a little more and do some hard decision making. Ultimately I believe you will be happier with less fish in more space- resulting in more natural behavior and interesting activity, not just milling- and your fish certainly will be healthier.> Thanks ahead of time for the effort that goes into answering this long email. <No problem, it's a pleasure!> It took me almost a week to create it and I'm not in any rush for a reply back :) <Good luck with your continued research, project. Feel free to ask anything you can't find indexed, and check out our forum at bb.wetwebmedia.com where there are some very helpful folk ready to chat about aquariums! Benjamin>

Re: Question regarding stocking - Sorry, this is a long one - 6/20/08 Thanks for the helpful answers. <No problem!> Well I knew the answer would be no on the school of yellow tangs but hey, I had to ask. Also, what is your reasoning behind not mixing tangs/triggers? <I think the tangs and the triggers would be fine, I just wouldn't mix the triggers and the angelfishes> The triggers I'm hoping to have are pretty peaceful as far as triggers go, do you think they will just be bullied by the tang? I was assuming with 180g of space and lots of crevices and caves, they would be able to co-exist happily. <I would think so too> I think I might go with a Red Sea Raccoon butterfly as my yellow fish (I think my wife will be fine as long as there is a couple yellow somethings in there) I might even do two or three although I cant really find anything about them being a schooling type butterfly? Will they be better off just one to a tank? <I'll admit right now that butterflies are not my specialty, but I do believe they would do best one or two to a tank, if you found a pair.> Then hopefully two blue throat triggers. Then a Purple tang and either a Emperor angel or a Queen angel. A sand sifting goby of some sort and then the usual assortment of cleaner snails and hermits. That will only end up being 6 or so of the larger fish and one sand sifter, in about 215g total water volume with a sump and lots of circulation plus plenty of live rock which I'm making myself so it will have lots of hidey holes and plenty of stuff to explore. I think in a 180g that will look quite nice and be around 30g of water per fish. If you don't recommend mixing 2-3 Raccoon butterflies in the same tank, is there a butterfly that is a nice bright yellow which you do recommend as more of a schooling type? With this stocking plan, I would assume I could introduce the Heniochus first along with the sand sifter, then the triggers, then the Purple tang (hopefully around 3 inches) and then whatever Pomacanthus I decide on, either Emperor or Queen? Or should I do the Purple tang last and the angelfish second to last? I'm hoping both the angel and tang will be only around 3-4 inches, nothing too big or small. <I would introduce the angel or triggers (whichever you decided on) last. So really, you guys recommend 400 watts of lighting on a 180g tank that's just a FOWLR? <Well, lighting is pretty subjective. I recommend that for you because it really isn't that much light spread out across such a large tank. You could probably do well though with a lot less watts of T5 light- but whatever you do, the fish will look better under good light.> Most of the really alive "LR" part of my tank will be in the sump with high lighting. I'll just have rockwork in the main tank and it will slowly become live over time but I don't need anything too amazing, as you can probably tell I'm trying to avoid algae problems. I'm really wanting to cut back my lighting if possible from what I have to use now on my reef tank, 400 watts makes some decent heat and also drives the electrical bill up when compared to say 4 lights at 54w each which is what I had planned. If you think the fish will derive a lot of benefit from it though, then so be it, but if they could get by happily on 200w I'd much prefer that. <Well, they don't need to have a tanning bed. Maybe take a look at lower-watt T5 units?> Also, what temperature of lights do you think would make this combination of fish look the best and thrive? I'm not really well versed as far as lighting goes despite my experience with reef tanks, I've basically always just used half 10k T-5 VHOs and half actinic blue 460s. I'm assuming the actinic blue will help the fish look good, but a yellow fish like the Heniochus might be brighter in appearance if I get some lights more in the 6-7k range? <I think a 50/5o mix should be pretty good for a fish only tank> I just don't like the looks of bare bottom tanks... Maybe I'll just stick 1/2 an inch or so of sand around the bottom and have a DSB in the sump only. OR, what do you think about maybe doing some of the crushed coral substrate, the stuff that is around 1/8th of an inch in size? And just skip the sand sifter goby? <If you kept it shallow and vacuum it, that would work.> I'm just having a hard time coming across aragonite sand up here in Alaska, the only live sand I can get is $10 a lb at the LFS I trust and to put even a 1 inch layer across the bottom would cost me $400, kind of ridiculous. <Wow! No kidding!> But the bags of crushed coral (not wet, the dry stuff) are about $30 for a 30 lb bag, I could buy $100 of that stuff and it would be enough I think. I'm not CHEAP, but I hate spending $400 on substrate that the fish don't even care about. <Understood!> Crushed coral would also give me some good buffering ability. <Actually not as good as the aragonite sand, but a lot better than play/silica sand.> I'll definitely get some Chaetomorpha and Gracilaria for the sump and hopefully be able to feed my Purple tang a lump of fresh algae once a week or so rather than always eating frozen mixtures and Nori clips. <I'm sure the fish will appreciate the nice snack!> Thanks again for all the help. <No problem! Glad to be of service.> Grant Gray <Benjamin>

Compatibility and Design Questions Yet Againa Lionfish Dominated FOWLR Tank 06/16/08 Thank you very much for devoting your time, and for so long a time, to helping out the hobby by providing this service. It's truly inspirational and greatly appreciated. <<Thank youwe are very glad to be here/to be of service, Jeff. And you have my apologies for the tardiness of this reply>> My questions regard fishes that I don't have for a tank that I haven't yet purchased. <<Ah! The dreaming/planning stages are so fun, yes?>> Every time I think that I've got a tank design settled, I read something on your site that highlights a misconception or an oversight on my part. <<But kudos to you for researching beforehand. And do let me suggest you broaden your searching by looking to other sources along with your research on WWM. As much as we like what we say here at WWM [grin], its best to not limit yourself to any one resource>> And thank you very much for that. <<Were happy to share>> I'd rather sacrifice time in the research phase than do it in real time with actual animals. <<All is precious (even our/your time)but proper research is a necessary functionand can even be quite enjoyable>> What I've done is to decide on the fish I want to keep, then work "backwards" to figure out the system necessary to properly house them. <<Very goodand maybe this is obvious, but do also look closely at your fish selection for compatibility/suitability. I wont be of much use to design the system around the fish if they cant cohabitate>> A Volitans Lionfish is top of the list. <<My favorite among the Lionfishes>> I still vividly remember walking into that fish store as a youngster and immediately standing in front of a large hex tank with a lion looking directly at me, fins splayed and being told that it was venomous. Spectacular. <<Agreed, and if I may share My enthrallment with the saltwater side of the hobby began with the site of a tank chock-full of 1 Blue Damsels against a background of white gravel and bleached-white coral (yes, I hail from the days of undergravel-filters in saltwater tanks), though I long since learned this is hardly a feasible (or responsible) display>> Similarly, I remember seeing pictures in a book in dad's library showing a moray eel, mouth agape and full of needle-like teeth. <<Mmm, yesand I remember many an enjoyable evening watching The Undersea World of Jacques Cousteau>> It sent a shiver down my back. So, I would like one of those too. Since then, I have learned about and am also drawn to Tuskfish and triggers. <<Hmm, I hope this is just a list of favoritesand not what you plan to keep together>> Then I read that apparently, the only way to responsibly own a trigger of any sort, is in a specimen tank. <<Ah, wellnot exactlyin my opinion. There are several species that can often be kept with other fishes (e.g. Xanthichthys, Rhinecanthus), but I dont generally suggest Triggerfishes with Lionfishes>> Nuts! Perhaps that will be my (possible) second tank. <<There ya go>> Then I read that a moray and a Volitans are not a good match. <<Depends much on the species of eel I thinkbut this seems to be the popular school of thought>> There goes the moray. Nuts again! <<Another tank? [grin]>> Am I okay with the Volitans and the Tuskfish? <<Should be finein a big enough tank>> I'm now considering a Miniatus Grouper. <<Mmm>> Will that go well with the other two? <<As long as it isnt big enough to eat themcan reach about 20 in the wild>> Finally, I would love to have a Queen Angel, however I'm not going to be able to turn my living room into an aquarium, and they sound too aggressive for the other fish on the list anyway. Would a French or Blueface Angel work with this group? <<The Blueface can be touchy or hard to keep, but given plenty of space, the French Angel would make a spectacular addition in my opinion>> Given this group of four (Volitans, Tuskfish, Miniatus, Angel), will a 240g (72 x 30 x 25) suffice? <<Yes though probably just. And it will certainly need some good ancillary filtration>> I am planning on about 200# of LR, <<Be careful not to overdue this While you will certainly need to provide some caves/dark places for the Lionfish and Grouperit is important to maintain lots of swimming room as well>> a 65g sump, ATB medium cone skimmer, <<An interesting design I would be very interested in your appraisal of this skimmer>> and a large RDSB. Am I even in the ballpark? <<I think you are, yesbut do also consider a canister filter for chemical filtration (carbon or Poly-Filter), as well as a fluidized-bed filter to assist with biological filtration>> One fear I'm having is that this is getting out of control. <<Is easy to do>> Maybe this all boils down to: should a Volitans be in a specimen tank? <<Not necessarily as long as you make your choices (livestock and setup) with this animals needs/well-being in mind>> Thanks much, Jeff <<Quite welcome let me know how things progress. Regards, Eric Russell>>

Re: Compatibility and Design Questions Yet Againa Lionfish Dominated FOWLR Tank 06/18/08 Thank you Eric for the reply. <<Quite welcome, Jeff>> It helps greatly with forming a game-plan. <<Aham happy to know>> And, yes, the planning stage is great fun, and it's free. <<Hee-hee! Indeed>> Based upon the assumption that I'll be housing a Volitans, Tuskfish, French Angel, and a Miniatus (Are you sure about the 20" max length? My reference (Scott Michael) lists 16.1". That's a huge difference.), <<As sure as I can be using fishbase.org as a reference, yes>> I would like to get your opinion on a few further details of the design. <<Okey-dokey>> I agree about the possibility of having so much LR as to limit swimming room for this group of fish, esp. the Volitans and Angel. However, since LR will be the primary biological filtration for these waste machines as fish, it also seems imperative that I push it as far as I can go and still leave adequate maneuvering room. <<Is one approach but a better method (in my opinion) is to either use a remote vessel to hold live rock if possible or boost biological filtration with ancillary installation of a wet/dry or fluidized-bed filter (my preference being the latter)>> Since I'll be starting with juveniles, maybe a option is to start with the LR on the low side and add more only as necessary in order to keep the open volume maximized. <<Is up to youbut for this type system I think a fluidized-bed filter (even two or more plumbed in series if necessary!) is the way to go. This frees up room in the tank, and these filters are able to ramp-up very quickly to adapt to fluctuating bio-loads>> The obvious difficulty is that the need for the LR is directly proportional the size of the fish, <<This is part of the equation, yesalong with overall numbers, feeding habits, your husbandry skills/maintenance habits, etc.. Rarely in my experience is anything we do relating to this hobby based on a single factor>> yet inversely proportional to the free-volume for swimming. <<Agreed here and so overlooked especially with reef systems>> In addition, this strategy requires water quality to deteriorate before addressing it with increased LR. <<Not with my solution [grin]that FB filter will sit there and idle, but will also be up and working before you even know it is needed>> I'm inclined to go at start-up with the amount of LR that should approximate the ultimate amount needed. <<Ahh, but then you lose the benefits of adding fresh rock at a later date>> Thoughts? <<You have them>> A fluidized-bed filter? <<Yep>> I will not debate that such a properly functioning filter can be the acme of efficiency, I'm sure that it is. However, they strike me as too delicately balanced for comfort. <<How so? The design is quite simple and elegant in its functionand any balancing is done automatically, based on the nutrient load of the system>> If flow is diminished or interrupted and the bed collapses and goes anaerobic, then you can quickly have big trouble. <<Is a small concern (if at all)and certainly less so than a canister filter utilized for carbon filtration as the sand in the FB filter does not trap/store up organic matter. And like that canister filter full of carbonthe benefits far outweigh such an unlikely event. And to be fair, good husbandry would mandate cleaning/flushing such filters (canister or otherwise) after an extended loss of flow before putting them back on line>> The need for additional nitrate removal is what led me to choose the ATB skimmer. <<Im a huge fan of Euro-Reefbut this design intrigues me>> It's a princely sum for some bent plastic and an electric motor, but its reputed efficiency at removing pre-nitrate organics <<This is what all skimmers do (to differing degrees of efficiency)this is a fancy way of saying the skimmer generates a bunch of skimmate [grin]>> causes me to believe that its money well spent. Okay, I'll admit it; I really like the design and quality too. <<Ah-ha!>> You mention a canister filter for chemical filtration. <<Yes>> I'm planning on building a manifold in the return line, powered by something like a Dart or Barracuda, and separately diverting water through sub-systems before dumping back into the return portion of the sump. <<Ah! Perhaps some simple media reactors then>> These sub-systems will be the remote deep sand bed, a chamber for carbon, and another chamber for a phosphate filter. <<Very goodand to reiteratemore deadly re an anoxic situation than a fluidized-bed filterbut oh so beneficial/worth the risk>> I'm considering a refugium for tumbling Chaetomorpha. <<Another worthwhile effort. And by the waythe Chaetomorpha does not have to tumble (its not likely you would get it to do so anyway). Simply flowing 3-5 times the vessels volume per hour (can be more if you wish) is quite adequate in my experience with this macro-algae>> An algae scrubber makes a lot of sense to me, but the additional maintenance issues make me hesitate. <<Best to stick with what you can/will keep up with>> Are the other components of my system adequate for the task, or is the refugium worth the trouble? <<It may not be so much a matter of need, but a refugium is certainly of benefit. The Chaetomorpha will help you with Nitrate and Phosphate export and is very easily pruned, not being a single-cell organism like Caulerpa. Chaetomorpha also provides a wonderful matrix for the hosting/fostering of micro- and macro-organisms that, while they may not provide food directly to your FOWLR livestock as they do in a reef system, they certainly provide and replenish the bio-diversity which helps to stabilize the system>> Appreciatively, Jeff <<Is a pleasure to share. Eric Russell>>

Compatibility -FOWLR stocking, triggers, puffers 05/30/2008 Hi Guys, <<And ladies I hope....Andrew with you this evening>> I just have a quick query; your website has been really useful but I just want to ask something specific. I'm considering a marine FOWLR setup. I have fallen in love with three fish, and I just wanted to know 1. would they get along and 2. what sort of a tank size would best fit these guys (I'm guessing pretty big, but would like to see if it is within price and room!) The fish are a Pinktail trigger, a narrow-lined puffer (Arothron manilensis) OR dogface; both are cute, and the last is the fuzzy dwarf lionfish that's just too... fuzzy to resist. Could these three ever get along and in what size of tank? <<Three very nice fish indeed. I don't see any problems with the puffer and the trigger in a tank of about 200 gal plus ( they both can get pretty large, especially the trigger, which can reach about a foot, sometimes a little more, and about 3/4 of a foot for the puffer, in captivity)...I would not add a lion in with these due the to the aggressive nature of them, and I feel the Lion would ultimately meet its demise through harassment>> Thanks a lot in advance, your website has been such a great resource Jo <<Thanks for the questions, please do read more on these species here, including linked articles and FAQ's. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/triggers/melichthys/index.htm  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/tetraodontpuffers.htm
 http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dendrochirus.htm Hope this helps.
A Nixon>>
 

90 gallon fowler, stkg. 5/17/08 Dear wet web media crew, I have a 90 gallon fowler tank with two false Percula clowns, one falcula butterfly, a valentini puffer, a hippo tang, a coral beauty, a six lined wrasse, and two fire fish. I was just wondering how many more fish I can add. It has a 20 gallon sump and a huge skimmer. It has an overflow and170 pounds of live rock. thanks. <Depends on the species... some smaller ones might be able to be fitted here... perhaps some Apogonids, Anthiines... Bob Fenner>

FOWLR stocking order- Stocking Compromises 5/7/08 Thank you in advance for your help. <We're happy to be of service. Scott F. in tonight!> Your site has been invaluable for me in setting up my tank. I have just set up a 180 gal FOWLR tank with 200lbs LR, Euro Reef RS180 skimmer, 2 X Tuneze 6060 Stream pumps. I would appreciate your opinion about selection and stocking order of the following: Flame Hawkfish, Yellow Tang, Auriga BF, Longnose BF, Hippo Tang and Passer Angel. <Well, first of all, although you have chosen an interesting array of fish, I'd be hesitant to stock your aquarium with all of them. I'd make some compromises here. In particular, I would only go with one of the Tangs, and one of the Butterflies. I'd recommend the Yellow Tang and the Longnose Butterfly. The Hippo simply gets huge, and really requires an even larger aquarium than the one you have to live a long and healthy life. I'd also pass on he full size Passer Angelfish. It's another fish that gets very large and requires an equally large aquarium. Really, to accommodate the entire collection that you contemplate, it will require an aquarium of hundreds of gallons, and at least 8 feet in length. If you really want to have an Angelfish, I'd definitely select a Centropyge (dwarf) Angelfish, which will have a smaller need for physical space than the Passer. In stocking, it's all about compromises, so please keep this in mind and you'll be successful with your aquarium! Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Compatible fish? FOWLR 05/02/2008 Hi WWM crew <<Hello, Andrew today>> I'm going to setup a 50 gallon saltwater FOWLR tank with separate trickle filter sump, protein skimmer and T5 lighting. The fish I want to keep in it are: 1.Coral Beauty 2.Long Nosed Butterfly fish 3. Royal Gramma Would these fish all be able to live happily in the tank? Would any other fish be able to live in it as well <<All the above fish would be fine in that aquarium. Any further purchases should be peaceful inhabitants like Goby, clown or blenny>> Thanks a lot, Dean <<Thanks for the questions, hope this helps. A Nixon>

Re: I Need A Quiet External Pump For My New 120g FOWLR System (Livestock Plan) 04/29/08 Thank you so much Eric for all your help. <<Is my pleasure>> I feel so much better about my pump concerns and plan to go with the Eheim. <<An excellent choice>> I also feel better about my LFS because of your comments. <<Ah, good>> I understand what pressures they're dealing with to keep alive, <<Indeed>> but I don't want to be stuck with buying inferior equipment either, << Sadly, cheap and inferior seems easier (too easy?) to sell. I know its easy for me to say, buteven though more expensive, beginning hobbyists might be more successful; and save a little money in the long run due to replacement, if offered and urged to by quality functioning gear from the start. One should at least have options/choices available if theyve done their homework and wish to be more discerning in their selections>> so I'll continue to support them as much as I can because I don't want to buy my livestock via mail order. <<The dollar savings from buying off the NET are very small usually, once you factor in shipping (less than $10 difference in my dealings and with my LFS), while the advantages of buying your livestock through an LFS you trust can be many>> So I'll do my best to keep them in business! <<Very good>> Speaking of livestock, you helped me solve my equipment problem, but what I thought was a good livestock plan sounds not so great by your comments. <<Yesin fact I strongly disagree with some aspects your plan as originally presented>> I seriously was taking the list from Michael Paletta's book, "The New Marine Aquarium". <<And much fine information to be found therebut we have a difference of opinions re stocking selection/densities>> It was the list for the 75 gal tank (I believe), <<Making it even more disagreeable to me>> so thought if that was good, then a 120 should be "under stocked". <<Not with a pair of Paracanthurus hepatus>> My two fish that I currently have in my 20 gal is the Tomato clown and the Green Mandarin (which I'm keeping fat and happy with frozen Cyclops, live and frozen brine shrimp and now I'm culturing copepods until my new refugium is up and running) - sorry - she was an impulse buy - my fault for not researching <<Yes[grin]>> and another LFS which I no longer frequent said was easy to care for and fine for a 20gal <<An all too common tale>> - but I take personal responsibility and am working hard to keep her happy. <<Very well>> So I do need to build my list around them, and knowing that the Tomato's reputation is that they don't always play nice in the sandbox, <<Pretty much true for all the Clownfishes. And ironically In more than three decades in the hobby (and including a brief stint working the retail side), clownfish species are the only fish to have ever drawn blood from me while working in the tank>> I'm hoping to come up with a good livestock list to go with him. I would like to keep the list as reef safe as possible in case I want to add "easy" corals at a later date. <<I see>> I love to watch them flow with the water movement - it's mesmerizing and relaxing. Is there a good suggested list to begin with knowing my starting point? <<Many choices But what do you like? Best to start with a list of desired fishes and then research them individually for compatibility and suitability to your system>> I've read for many hours on all the different types of fish and invertebrates (Bob and Anthony's Reef Invertebrates is a great book). <<Agreed>> I thought I had a good handle on the list until now. The recommended list was: 2 Yellow Tail Blue Hippo Tangs; which you said was too many for that tank and one was even pushing it. <<I did, yes>> I found from reading that these didn't grow as large <<Mmmwhere did you read this I wonder?>> as the yellow and purple's and the powder blue, so thought that was why he was recommending them and that they got along better as a pair compared to other tangs. <<I dont recommend a pair of any Tang/Surgeonfish from the same species for your tankand most certainly not Paracanthurus hepatus. This fish grows LARGER and more robust than the two Zebrasoma and one Acanthurus species you mention (to 12 in the wild>>. And in my opinion/experience, is one of the more high-strung and easily damaged (socially/psychologically) tang speciessuffering terribly from just being raised up in a too small system>> So you're vote is no for a 120g. <<Yes better choices available>> Any similar type fish that you would recommend - I'm for long term survival - I cry when any fish die - that's just me. <<Though I stated I dont recommend a pair from the same species (or genera, for that matter) for your tankI do think you could get away with two from differing genera, with some though to selection and introduction. The Yellow or Purple Tang would be a fine Zebrasoma choice for the 120and among Acanthurus species I think A. japonicus (White-Faced or Gold-Rimmed Tang) or A. pyroferus (Chocolate or Mimic Tang) are good choicesyou could also choose one of the smaller Ctenochaetus species if you wish like C. strigosus (Kole Tang)>> 7 Blue Green Chromis; these are ok? <<These are considered a more docile Damsel species, and are always a popular choice for a schooling fishbut with the exception of very large tanks (several hundred gallons and more), I dont really recall any instances where the subordinate individuals didnt all just disappear until only one or two specimens were left. As such, it is hard for me to recommend these. If you decide to give them a go, I do recommend no more than five for your tank>> I like to watch the schooling if not any other suggestions? <<Either Sphaeramia nematoptera (PJ or Pajama Cardinal) or Apogon leptacanthus (Threadfin or Longspine Cardinal) would be more successful rein my opinion. And againno more than five either species>> 1 Coral Beauty Angelfish; You said these are difficult to keep <<Many come in damaged from collection/shipping>> - so odd that he recommends for a beginner <<Differences of opinionthough they can be very hardy/long-lived if a healthy specimen can be obtained and acclimates well>> - what about other angelfish? <<Ah well, my personal fave Centropyge species is C. loricula (Flame Angel). These are gorgeous fish that do well in captive settingsand the best choice here I think>> 1 Longnose Hawkfish, 3 Banggai Cardinal fish, you said these would likely end up as a pair. <<Yes>> Why? Because one would be killed off?? <<Indirectly through stress, yes>> Then I only want to start with two...so these are better as pairs or more than 3? <<Results are much like those of the Chromis... And just purchasing a pair can be difficult as differences between sexes are not readily apparent (the male has a more angular head and a longer second dorsal fin)>> I want to add the Long-Spine Urchin because of the relationship they have with the cardinals <<Mmm more as juveniles than adults>> - similar to the clown and the anemone but urchins are hopefully hardier than the anemones. <<Diadema sp Urchins can get quite large and in my experience can be destructive in a reef system...but the choice is yours>> Any other suggestions? The more I read, the more I get nervous that I may mix Pacific fish with Atlantic and so on and really do want what's best for the fish. <<Do look up your choices/selections on fishbase.org. This site is very useful for determining locale/origin and for determining adult size of the fishes you are thinking of keeping>> Any suggestions for other invertebrates with these suggestions for a beginner? <<Hmm the Hawkfish will make adding shrimp difficult as they may be preyed uponbut do consider some detritus feeding snails like Nassarius sp and maybe a Brittle Starfish or two>> I wouldn't mind starting off with a known successful mix rather than trial and error by killing off perfectly helpless fish. <<Nothing is a guaranteeeven my selections [big grin]>> I've read the article on Steven Pro's 55 gal setup http://www.pmas.org/pro/ <<Ah yes, and do note how the tank is NOT filled up with rock>> but wish he would update us with his new 120 gal so I can see how he stocked it. <<Why not ask him to do so (http://forum.marinedepot.com/Forum14-1.aspx)>> Do you know what he ended up doing? <<Im afraid I dont>> He had a Maroon Clownfish-Premnas biaculeatus an Orange Tail Fiji Damsel-Chrysiptera cyanea, an Algae Blenny-Salarias fasciatus and a Yellow Tang-Zebrasoma flavescens in the 55 gal. My tomato has been with me since 2004 and has been playing nice with the mandarin who has been with me for over 6 mos. I couldn't find any sample combination lists in the FAQ sections, only very nice write ups on the individual species. Any help or direction you can point me to would be absolutely great. <<I hope I have done so>> I have plenty of time, my new tank has to cycle for a few months, but need to get my plan going so I know when to introduce my tomato - before or after the others to help keep the fighting to a minimum. I want a happy tank! Thanks so much Eric for all your help! <<Quite welcome>> Sorry my email is so long <<No worries>> - hopefully it gives you the info you need though to help me out! Jean <<Species selection is a serious process but is also part of the fun of system setup. Do keep reading/researching, and feel free to discuss with/bounce your selections off me if you wish. Regards, Eric Russell>>  

My New In-Wall FOWLR System! 04/21/08 Hello everyone at WWM!! <<Hi there, Art!>> I am currently in the final planning stages of setting up my 125G "in-wall" tank (picture attached). <<Neat though speaking from experience (my current system is my second in-wall system), I think you will find you wished you put some access doors above the tank on the front side. Keeping the front glass clean from behind is a real painand may even become impossible if corals are kept/grow large>> The R/O water is currently mixing in the tank with the salt and 135 lbs of live rock will be arriving on Thursday. <<Mmm, a lot of rockdo think to keep an open design to allow the fishes room to swim>> I also have a 55G corner tank with live rock, which was cycled with a protein skimmer and water changes about a year ago (still do periodic water changes). After the tank was cycled I read some information that makes me question how I should cycle this larger tank. <<Oh?>> For my corner tank I ran my skimmer from the moment the rock was introduced, but I read somewhere (I know it's not very helpful when I can't recall from where.... but now it's at the back of my head) that the protein skimmer shouldn't be turned on until your ammonia levels sky-rocket. <<I disagreeit is my opinion/preference to run the skimmer from day-1. Letting Ammonia and Nitrite levels sky-rocket as you say only further harms the emergent life on the rock>> I don't know if this is correct or not, but to me, it doesn't seem very beneficial to all of the microorganisms that make their home in the rock. <<Indeedmacro-organisms too>> I will also be adding some rock from my sump/fuge along with that "bacteria in a bottle". What is your opinion about cycling a tank with the protein skimmer at onset? <<Is my preference to do so>> Now here is my other question. I have neglected, or better yet put aside, my stocking list for this tank, because of all of the issues associated with carpentry, plumbing, and everyday hassles that come with building a new tank. <<I seeand is understandable. But do give this aspect of the planning process its due diligence>> From the beginning I knew it was going to be a FOWLR tank, my 55G Reef has cute small fish that get along with coral, but until recently I have decided to keep more aggressive larger fish in the 125G since I now have space for them. <<Mmmbetter than the 55g for sure>> Here goes: 1 Humu Humu Trigger 1 Niger Trigger <<Even at 125-gallons, this tank is not really big enough for this fish in the long-termand your stock-list should be with consideration for the long-term>> 1 Volitans -or- Radiata Lionfish <<Not a good choice with the triggers>> 1 Lyretail Wrasse <<Would do better as a trio (a male and two females) in my opinion>> 1 Yellow Tang 2 Maroon Clowns <<These will likely claim a good-size portion of the tank as their own>> OK. So this is my dream list. I have a friend that has successfully kept a Niger and Humu in the same (150 G) tank for about a year with no problems, <<A year is neither long-term nor a measurement of success>> but as I have read these fish aren't very predictable in the temperament department, so I know it's not a guarantee. <<Will be trouble sooner or laterfor sure>> Seeing as how all of these fish are aggressive, I think it's a gamble either way to go with one or the other, but I would like to hear an experts opinion. <<Aggressive fishes or notyou cant just lump any species together and hope for the best. Compatibility is still an issueand just getting along or just existing in the same tank will manifest in social and health issues. I recommend you pick a show fish you would like and that is suitable to your tank size and then research/build a stock-list of suitable tankmates around this fish>> As for the Lionfish, I much prefer the look and size of the Radiata to the Volitans, but from what I've seen at LFS they are not as easy to come by. <<Can likely be ordered>> What do you recommend? <<Volitans is my favorite (the black color phase), but go with your favejust not with the triggers>> Do you think the Maroons would be able to hold their own in this tank? <<A very aggressive Clownfish speciesif not small enough to be swallowedlikely, yes>> I currently have a Maroon in "time out" aka my sump/fuge because what was once a pretty friendly going fish, turned into a big bully from one day to the next. <<Not atypical>> I would most likely introduce the clown fish first, to give them the alpha seat, and then the other more aggressive fish at the same time, if you approve of my list. <<You have my opinions thus>> I have a Skimmer rated for 250G because I know larger fish are pretty messy eaters. <<Yes, I see itlooks to be a Berlin HOT skimmer. These can work fairbut usually need continual fiddling/adjustmentI would opt for a better and more efficient make/model. I also see you have installed check-valves on your pump return lines...a source of trouble. Best to design the plumbing such that these devices are not necessary>> If there is any more room in this tank I would like to put some smaller (about the same size or smaller as the maroons) aggressive "dither" fish to add some contrast and bring out the larger fish, but if I'm overstocked already then I'll just stop now. <<Mmmnot so much overstocked as mis-stocked>> Thank you in advance for taking the time to answer my question! <<Is my pleasure to share>> Your site really is a godsend! <<A collective effortwere happy you find it of use>> Art Perez, 20 California
<<Eric RussellSouth Carolina>>

Re: My New In-Wall FOWLR System! 04/23/08 Thanks for the quick reply, <<Quite welcome Artand thank you for writing back as it gives me the opportunity to correct a mistake I made during our previous correspondence which I will explain shortly>> I am taking your advice and have decided not to add the Niger or the Lionfish. <<For the bestconsidering>> I love the shape and color of the Lyretail Wrasse, so having 3 sounds like a good idea to me! Will I have enough room in the long run? If so, my only problem regarding this species is being able to find females. Do I just purchase 3 similar sized specimens and hope they are all females and the dominant one becomes male? <<This is where I made an error in my reading of your previous query, Art. My eyes saw you had written Lyretail Wrasse, but my brain processed Lyretail Anthias. Even if three of this Thalassoma species of wrasse were to get along (not a likely occurrence), your 125g tank is too small for three very aggressive, foot-long, fast-movers. My apologies for the error>> I have made some revisions to my list. Here goes: 2 Maroon Clowns 1 Purple Pseudochromis 1 Yellow Tang 3 Lunare Wrasse <<Should be amended to 1>> 3 Yellowtail Damsels 1 Snowflake Eel Do you think an angel of either Annularis or Imperator would be a good "show fish" for this tank? Or would it be harassed by the Tang and the wrasse? <<Spectacular fishes for sureand either one would be King Fish in this tankbut either one would require a tank at least double the size of yours in the long term. Best to keep looking for another show fish>> As for the order I was thinking of putting the clowns, Pseudochromis, and damsels in at the same time, and let them establish themselves. <<Probably fine>> Then put the eel and the Angel, (if suitable) and finally add the wrasses and the tang. Should the order be altered? <<Since the Angel is out (at least these two species), the Thalassoma Lunare should go in last>> Thanks in advance!! <<Always welcome And againsorry for the earlier mis-communication. EricR>>

My New In-Wall FOWLR System! 04/21/08 Hello everyone at WWM!! <<Hi there, Art!>> I am currently in the final planning stages of setting up my 125G "in-wall" tank (picture attached). <<Neatthough speaking from experience (my current system is my second in-wall system), I think you will find you wished you put some access doors above the tank on the front side. Keeping the front glass clean from behind is a real painand may even become impossible if corals are kept/grow large>> The R/O water is currently mixing in the tank with the salt and 135 lbs of live rock will be arriving on Thursday. <<Mmm, a lot of rockdo think to keep an open design to allow the fishes room to swim>> I also have a 55G corner tank with live rock, which was cycled with a protein skimmer and water changes about a year ago (still do periodic water changes). After the tank was cycled I read some information that makes me question how I should cycle this larger tank. <<Oh?>> For my corner tank I ran my skimmer from the moment the rock was introduced, but I read somewhere (I know it's not very helpful when I can't recall from where.... but now it's at the back of my head) that the protein skimmer shouldn't be turned on until your ammonia levels sky-rocket. <<I disagreeit is my opinion/preference to run the skimmer from day-1. Letting Ammonia and Nitrite levels sky-rocket as you say only further harms the emergent life on the rock>> I don't know if this is correct or not, but to me, it doesn't seem very beneficial to all of the microorganisms that make their home in the rock. <<Indeedmacro-organisms too>> I will also be adding some rock from my sump/fuge along with that "bacteria in a bottle". What is your opinion about cycling a tank with the protein skimmer at onset? <<Is my preference to do so>> Now here is my other question. I have neglected, or better yet put aside, my stocking list for this tank, because of all of the issues associated with carpentry, plumbing, and everyday hassles that come with building a new tank. <<I seeand is understandable. But do give this aspect of the planning process its due diligence>> From the beginning I knew it was going to be a FOWLR tank, my 55G Reef has cute small fish that get along with coral, but until recently I have decided to keep more aggressive larger fish in the 125G since I now have space for them. <<Mmmbetter than the 55g for sure>> Here goes: 1 Humu Humu Trigger 1 Niger Trigger <<Even at 125-gallons, this tank is not really big enough for this fish in the long-termand your stock-list should be with consideration for the long-term>> 1 Volitans -or- Radiata Lionfish <<Not a good choice with the triggers>> 1 Lyretail Wrasse <<Would do better as a trio (a male and two females) in my opinion>> 1 Yellow Tang 2 Maroon Clowns <<These will likely claim a good-size portion of the tank as their own>> OK. So this is my dream list. I have a friend that has successfully kept a Niger and Humu in the same (150 G) tank for about a year with no problems, <<A year is neither long-term nor a measurement of success>> but as I have read these fish aren't very predictable in the temperament department, so I know it's not a guarantee. <<Will be trouble sooner or laterfor sure>> Seeing as how all of these fish are aggressive, I think it's a gamble either way to go with one or the other, but I would like to hear an experts opinion. <<Aggressive fishes or notyou cant just lump any species together and hope for the best. Compatibility is still an issueand just getting along or just existing in the same tank will manifest in social and health issues. I recommend you pick a show fish you would like and that is suitable to your tank size and then research/build a stock-list of suitable tankmates around this fish>> As for the Lionfish, I much prefer the look and size of the Radiata to the Volitans, but from what I've seen at LFS they are not as easy to come by. <<Can likely be ordered>> What do you recommend? <<Volitans is my favorite (the black color phase), but go with your favejust not with the triggers>> Do you think the Maroons would be able to hold their own in this tank? <<A very aggressive Clownfish speciesif not small enough to be swallowedlikely, yes>> I currently have a Maroon in "time out" aka my sump/fuge because what was once a pretty friendly going fish, turned into a big bully from one day to the next. <<Not atypical>> I would most likely introduce the clown fish first, to give them the alpha seat, and then the other more aggressive fish at the same time, if you approve of my list. <<You have my opinions thus>> I have a Skimmer rated for 250G because I know larger fish are pretty messy eaters. <<Yes, I see itlooks to be a Berlin HOT skimmer. These can work fairbut usually need continual fiddling/adjustmentI would opt for a better and more efficient make/model. I also see you have installed check-valves on your pump return lines...a source of trouble. Best to design the plumbing such that these devices are not necessary>> If there is any more room in this tank I would like to put some smaller (about the same size or smaller as the maroons) aggressive "dither" fish to add some contrast and bring out the larger fish, but if I'm overstocked already then I'll just stop now. <<Mmmnot so much overstocked as mis-stocked>> Thank you in advance for taking the time to answer my question! <<Is my pleasure to share>> Your site really is a godsend! <<A collective effortwere happy you find it of use>> Art Perez, 20 California
<<Eric RussellSouth Carolina>>

FOWLR/Compatibility 4/17/08 Hello-- <Hi Tom> Let me first off state that your website is a terrific resource. The volume of information is almost overwhelming! <Thank you.> I have a 75 gal reef tank that has been set up for about four years. For the most part its inhabitants have thrived, although I have quite a bubble algae problem on my hands. A few months ago my wife and I honeymooned in Kauai, and after returning home and thinking about it I decided I would like a long-term reminder of that trip. So I am planning on getting rid of the reef tank and constructing a FOWLR tank. It will be sad to say goodbye to the corals but I am pretty sure this is the direction I want long-term. I was planning on buying a new tank anyway, one with a built-in overflow, so one question is in regards to tank size. The fish I would like to keep include a Rectangular Trigger, a Raccoon Butterfly, a Dragon Wrasse, and a tang or two. I currently have a Blue Hippo tang in the reef tank and would like to keep it as I'm quite partial to it. Ideally I would also keep one Yellow Tang or one Convict Tang. Which would you recommend in this setup (or neither)? <Both the Dragon Wrasse and the Trigger are aggressive fish, they could be kept together but I wouldn't chance putting the tangs in there with them. As for the tangs, I'd go with a Yellow Tang, will give more color to the system and should get along well with the Hippo. Do add them  at the same time.> So am I missing any compatibility problems with these fish? What size tank will I need? <With the tangs, I'd go with at least a 125 gallon tank and go for length and width rather than height. The same would hold true for triggerfish and the Dragon Wrasse.> I know it would be out of place, but I have always loved lionfish. If I added one of them, what size tank would it need to be? <The above will work fine.> Finally, are there any species of coral that would likely survive? Everything seems to point to "no", but I am hoping there might be an exception that you are aware of. <I would not, the Dragon Wrasse is very adept at moving rock and pieces of rock landing on corals would lead to their demise. Triggerfish have the habit of looking under rocks for tidbits also, but do not have quite the rearranging skills of a Dragon Wrasse. Do search/read on our site on fish you have in mind before making any decisions, make sure compatibility and requirements can be met.> Thank you so much for the help. Have a great week. <Thank you. James (Salty Dog)> Sincerely, Tom

Stocking 75g...Maybe FOWLR 04/14/08 I would just like approval before I dive in. <<Happy to provide my opinions>> My tank is 48" x 18" x 20" Currently in tank. 6 Chromis None of these fish have been added...but this is what I'm thinking. Gold striped maroon clown Yellow tang Blue Hippo, I know he will outgrow the tank, and when he does I will take him to the LFS. <<A fine notion, though the fish will likely expire before this is realized. Aside from outgrowing the tank, this large, robust but twitchy Tang species will suffer from just growing up in a too-small systemresulting in health and behavioral issues that will certainly shorten its life. Do yourself and this fish a favor, and take a pass here>> Humu Humu Triggerfish, again I know he will outgrow the tank, but it will take awhile. <<Indeedand a better prospect for growing up in this tank than the Hippo Tang. Also important to keep in mind herealthough this is one of the more sociable species of Triggerfishesovercrowding can/will lead to problems, especially as the fish matures>> And maybe 2 pink square anthias. <<These large Anthiines are better suited to a larger tankand too, unless received as a male-female pair, would not likely co-exist in this size tank>> I have a wet dry sump, 3 inch sand bed, and about 75lbs of dense and porous rock. <<Hmmisnt that a contradiction (dense and porous)?>> There is a good amount of swimming room. <<An important aspect to the fishs social health. EricR>>

Re: Stocking 75g...Maybe FOWLR 04/14/08 I might pass on the hippo, <<I do strongly suggest this>> and the anthias. <<Probably for the better>> Just stick with the gold stripe maroon, yellow tang, school of chromis (or rather group of shoaling chromis) and Humu, for a while. <<You will likely find that this fills you upespecially as the fish mature>> Oh and I meant I have both dense and porous rock. <<Ah!>> One of them is a shelf rock, beautiful, however weighs quite a bit. <<I see>> Any other suggestions? <<Pertaining to stocking? The Trigger, Tang, and Clown you have listed, along with the half-dozen Chromis, should about do it for this tank. Regards, EricR>>

Inverts... title please... sel.  04/11/2008 Hello <<Hi, Andrew today>> I have a 72 gallon FOWLR tank. My stocking list looks like this: 2 Ocellaris clowns 1 Blue-green Chromis 1 Royal Gramma 1 Neon goby 1 Yellow tang 1 Scott's fairy wrasse 1 Flame Angel 1 Black brittle star 2 cleaner shrimp 30 Nassarius snails 5 Cerith snails I still have not purchased the wrasse or angel for my tank yet. <<I would suggest you don't have anymore room for more fish>> Fishwise my tank is pretty stocked and lately I've become interested in the inverts for my tank. I have been looking to add some but I am starting to get worried that I might overload the tank or worse off starve them to death as I do not like to overfeed my fish. I am looking to add 3 camel shrimp, an urchin (probably a pincushion) an emerald crab for my hair algae and a pink sandsifting cucumber. Would this be to much for my tank? <<I would add all besides the cucumber, its personal preference, but i have seen too many tanks go bad because of an issue with these, and to me, its not worth the risk. With regards to feeding / bioload...Its all fine, you should not experience any issues>> Thanks, Adam Law <<Hope this helps, thanks for the questions. A Nixon>>

Stocking levels for 65 gallon 04/07/2008 Hi <<Hello Dean, Andrew with you today>> I'm going to start a 65 gallon FOWLR tank with separate filter sump,T5 lighting, protein skimmer. The fish i want to keep in it after gaining experience keeping damsels are as follows 1.Coral Beauty 2.Royal Gramma 3.Purple Tang 4.Long Nosed Butterfly fish ( would drop it from my wish list if i would be overstocking with it) i just want to make sure I wouldn't be over-stocking <<Do you still have the Damsels? If so, i would remove them and return to a store for some credit as these will cause aggression issues. All the above are fine except the tang. This would need a larger home. Look for another room mate which does not get so big.>> Thanks kind regards Dean <<Thanks for the questions, hope this helps. A Nixon>>

Re: 65gal Stocking FOWLR question 04/09/2008 Hi WWM crew <<G'Morning, Andrew today>> I have already asked you if a coral beauty, long nosed butterfly fish, Royal Gramma and a purple tang in a 65 gallon FOWLR tank would be overstocking, you said it would be alright except for the tang and you advised that I search for another compatible tank mate. I was wondering if 2 black and white false clowns would be a good replacement. <<Sounds like a very good choice to me, tank bred, not wild caught of course ;O) >> thanks for all the help Kind regards Dean <<Thanks for the questions, hope this helps. A Nixon>>

Re: stocking levels for 65 gallon 04/09/2008 yes, I was planning on removing the damsels from the tank and taking them back to the store, I've heard they can severely attack or even kill other fish that are added to the tank . <<Very true>> So I'll drop the purple tang. I've also got another question. Are you meant to add the substrate before adding the saltwater to the tank or after. <<It does not really make much difference. I do find it easier when setting up a new tank to put the sand in first, leaving the empty space for the live rock, add saltwater, add rock, fill in the sand. This way, the rock is sitting firmly on the glass bottom and provides stability to the rock structure>> Thanks for all the help kind regards Dean <<Thanks for the questions and follow up. A Nixon>>

Re: 65gal Stocking question 04/09/2008 yes tank bred of course <<Good stuff>> What order should the fish be added (Coral Beauty, Long nosed Butterflyfish, Royal Gramma and two black and white false clowns.) <<I would go clowns first, coral beauty, butterfly and Gramma>> And another question, are there any tangs that be kept in a 65 gallon FOWLR. <<I would august not, no, i am afraid>> Thanks for all the help Kind Regards Dean <<Thanks, A Nixon>>

Mixing Wrasse In FOWLRother stocking questions 3/31/08 Hi guys, <<Hello Brian.>> Got a quick question that I hope you can help me out with. <<I will try.>> I have a 72 gallon FOWLR. Currently in the tank include 2 ocellaris clowns, a yellow tang (3 inch), and 2 scarlet shrimp. A mystery wrasse 2.5 inch (Pseudocheilinus mysterii) was added last week. I wanted to add a few more wrasses but wanted to confirm compatibility. My LFS has a great looking Laboutei wrasse (Cirrhilabrus laboutei) and blue flasher wrasse, can those two be added together safely with my current stocking list? <<In all honesty, with one established wrasse, and considering the overall volume of the aquarium I would not.>> My plans to finish the tank will probably include a dwarf flame angel and possibly an Auriga butterfly. <<Skip the butterfly.>> Thanks in advance for you advice, ~ Brian <<Adam J.>>

A Centerpiece Fish Without The Bit! (Compatibility Query) -03/27/08 Hello, <Hey there! Scott F. in tonight!> About 3 months ago, we bought a 75 gallon tank with a CPR Backpack2 filter/skimmer and Emperor 400 BioWheel. Our levels all seem to be in check. We purchased a clean up package offered online including Hermit Crabs, 1 Arrow Crab, 1 Sally Lightfoot, 2 Emerald Crabs, Turbo and Nassarius snails, and 2 Peppermint Shrimp. We have 40 lbs of live rock and 80 lbs of live sand. Our first fish purchases included 2 Maroon Clowns and 1 Lawnmower Blenny. We have been looking for more tank mates and would really like to get a Canthigaster supramacula. What do you think about the compatibility of this fish with what we have? Or do you have any other suggestion for a "centerpiece" fish. <Well, the genus Canthigaster is filled with reasonably-sized fish that, although attractive and generally interesting, tend to be notorious for nipping and biting the fins off of their tankmates! I'd be hesitant to add this fish to your aquarium. Your fishes and invertebrates will thank you! An interesting "centerpiece" fish would be something like a Flame Hawkfish, or perhaps a trio of small Fairy Wrasses, or even a small Centropyge Angelfish (like C. argi, etc.)?> In addition, do we need to purchase an aerator or are our filters adequate for this job? <If the returns are breaking the surface tension of the water and creating some turbulence at the air/water interface, I don't think that you'll need additional aeration for your system.> Thanks Andrea <Glad to be of service! Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>

45 Gallon Fish Only Stocking 3/26/08 Hello WWM Crew! <Hello Michelle.> First of all, thank you for maintaining such a great website. It's been really useful for a newbie like me, and a good deal of my basic information has been gleaned from its resources. <Thank you, this site is a honor to be part of!> I'm starting my first saltwater tank (I've done numerous freshwater). I say "starting", but really I'm continuing a failed 45-gallon saltwater tank my friend gave to me, as a school project. There is nothing wrong with the tank; my friend just never got further than two inches of sand, a clownfish (*Amphiprion ocellaris)*, a striped damsel *(Dascyllus melanurus*)*,* and a black molly *(Poecilia latipinna)*. It has, however, been established for over a year and there are no issues. <That makes it a good start for you.> I run water tests daily and I believe I'm at the point where I can introduce new fish (quarantined first of course), but first I'd like to check a few things: My first question deals with equipment. On the tank there is only a Penguin Bio-Wheel Power Filter, a heater, and a hood with a built-in fluorescent light. My friend never got a protein skimmer and I was planning on getting one since it sounds like a MUST, but my LFS says that on a peaceful, small fish, 45-gallon tank a protein skimmer is really unnecessary. <I would not label a protein skimmer an absolute must. It does however make maintaining a higher water quality much easier. Look at a skimmer in service and ask yourself if you want the contents of the collection cup in your tank! Peaceful fish create waste too.> I'm like to check with you before I take the risk. <No risk, just a little cost.> Second, in regards to the environment, I am changing the sand and adding shells and bleached corals for hiding places, but I thought I'd work without live rock as much as possible for expense reasons (I'm running off a school budget; the tank is in my environmental science classroom). I don't know if not having LR will affect any of the fish I am planning to add. <Live rock is very beneficial and does make filtration generally easier, but it is not a must.> Here's the list: 2 skunk cleaner shrimp *(**Lysmata amboinensis)* 1 neon goby *(**Elacatinus **oceanops)* <I would not keep these in a fish only tank, they do better in reefs.> 1 royal Gramma *(Gramma loreto)* 1 firefish goby *(Nemateleotris magnifica)* 1 sixline wrasse *(Pseudocheilinus hexataenia)* <I would not include this fish. It can be aggressive.> 1 Banggai (Banggai?) cardinal (*Pterapogon kaudneri*)** Third, I am getting rid of the damsel because it has proven itself aggressive (it used to have 5 siblings), <Good, this was my next recommendation!> and the black molly can be moved to another tank if I am lacking in room. <Should be fine left in the tank.> But are eight small fish too many for a 45-gallon tank? <Excluding those mentioned above, you will be fine.> I can't seem to find an accurate gauge and I don't comprehend the "rule of thumb." <Check out: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/stocking1.htm and related articles/FAQs.> My largest problem is compatibility. I've done research to find peaceful, hardy fish, but I thought I'd double-check to make sure there weren't any issues. Are there any certain combos I should watch out for in my list? <Mentioned above.> I can't thank you enough for all you're doing. Warmest regards, Michelle <Welcome, thank you for writing, Scott V.>

Small Marine Aquariums
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ook 2: Fishes
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