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FAQs on Marine Ich, White Spot, Cryptocaryoniasis Identification 2

Related Articles: Marine Ich: Fighting The War On Two Fronts, Cryptocaryoniasis, Parasitic Disease, Quarantine, Quarantine of Marine Fishes,

Related FAQs: Identification 1,Identification 3, Identification 4,

& Best Crypt FAQs, Crypt FAQs 1, Crypt FAQs 2, Crypt FAQs 3, Crypt FAQs 4, Crypt FAQs 5, Crypt FAQs 6, Crypt FAQs 7, Crypt FAQs 8, Crypt FAQs 9, Crypt FAQs 10, Crypt FAQs 11, Crypt FAQs 12, Crypt FAQs 13, Crypt FAQs 14, Crypt FAQs 15, Crypt FAQs 16, Crypt FAQs 17, Crypt FAQs 18, Crypt FAQs 19, Crypt FAQs 20, Crypt FAQs 21, Crypt FAQs 22, Crypt FAQs 23, Crypt FAQs 24, & FAQs on Crypt: Prevention, "Causes", Phony Cures That Don't Work, Cures That Do Work, Hyposalinity & Ich, & Marine Parasitic Disease, Parasitic Marine Tanks, Parasitic Reef Tanks, Marine Velvet Disease, Biological Cleaners, Treating Parasitic Disease, Using Hyposalinity to Treat Parasitic Disease, Best Quarantine FAQs, Quarantine 1, Quarantine 2, Quarantine 3, Quarantine 4, Quarantine 5, Quarantine 6, Quarantine 7, Quarantine 8, Quarantine 9, Quarantine 10, Quarantine 11, Quarantine 12, Quarantining Invertebrates,

Ich treatment complications – 12/13/12
Hi crew,
I write today about Ich in my display. A bit of a background first:
My display is a custom 180 that has been running since July. It was an upgrade from my 75 gallon and I used almost all the rock, water and sand from the 75 when making the switch. I initially let the new tank cycle completely for 12 weeks and then did the swap. All parameters are stable in the new tank with ammonia and nitrite at 0, nitrate at about 5. Alk is 8.2 and calcium is being adjusted down from a high 480. Currently at 450. Mag is at 1320. Did have some trouble with phosphates being 0.3 initially but now getting under control at 0.08.
Current stock in the way of fish includes a yellow tang, 2 Firefish, an orchid Dottyback, a watchman goby, 2 pajama cardinals, one Banggai cardinal and a pair of true Perculas. All fish have been with me for a while or were added after 4 weeks of QT recently.
I noticed yesterday that the tang has quite a few white spots. My fish have been Ich free for the past three years but looks like it has been triggered somehow (my guess is the move or I missed symptoms during QT for one of the fish). The other fish are not showing any signs yet. The infections looks pretty heavy though the fish does not show any weakness at this point.
<Mmm, no spots, other indications on the other fishes... I'd hold off on treating, moving all for now... the spots on the Yellow Tang may not be anything pathogenic... could be discrete body mucus "dots", perhaps even just sand stuck on this stickier fish species>
 My plan was to move all the fish to the 75 and treat using hypo leaving the display fallow for 10 weeks.  Other than the concern that the 75 would be bursting at the seams with this load (am working out a solution for that with an additional smaller tank), I have one additional concern. I have a mandarin that was waiting in the 75 to be moved once the pod population had caught up in the new tank. Clearly I cannot leave it in the 75 if I am going to remove all the sand and residual rock. It is currently fat and healthy and has been since I got it over 2 years ago. Would swapping it to the display simply mean providing a host for the parasite?
<Possibly yes; a "reservoir host">
 I do realize that they are somewhat more resistant that other fish but not immune to the infection.
<Yes; this is so>
I am at a bit of a loss about how to tackle this situation with the mandarin and would appreciate your thoughts.
<As stated; I'd just wait for now... not move, nor treat>
As regards the treatment for the rest, I plan to run the SG down to 1.09
<Mmm, missing a zero>
 slowly as has been prescribed and then bring it back up even slower. I know Firefish are not fans of freshwater dips. Should I be concerned about their reaction to hypo?
<Am not a fan of hyposalinity treatments period... search, see my, others input on WWM re.>
As always, appreciate your guidance.
<And just in case this is Protozoal, please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasittkfaq2.htm
for input, hopefully solace. Bob Fenner>
Re: Ich treatment complications – 12/13/12

Oops yes indeed missing a zero. Not that much of a novice. Not the best typist though. I have seen your thoughts on hypo vs. copper. I was just avoiding the hassle of twice a day copper tests and since my 75 has not auto top off, keeping copper levels steady would be a challenge. Am certainly up to it though. 
<I'd go w/ quinine (CP) rather than copper here; IF/when treating>
I doubt it is sand on the tang. It is brushing against the rock and such so does indeed look like Ich. It is swimming around effortlessly, breathing fine but tilt from side to side ever so often like it wants to brush against something. It is also visiting the cleaner shrimp often. Would removing just the tang for now be a better stop gap solution?
<Mmm, no; I'd leave all in place>
The mandarin can be moved to the new tank in this case I can monitor/treat the tank as necessary.
Re: Ich treatment complications – 12/13/12

Thank you for your thoughts Bob. Just one last question; how do I determine when it is time to change plans? If other fish start to pick it up?
<Mmm; more so, yes. Please read where you've been referred. B>
Thank you for your help.

Possible Ich, ongoing... also Xanthichthys hlth. f'  - 12/01/2012
This is a better view.
<Better resolved, but the subject is way too small in the frame...>
 Please excuse the feeding debris. I installed a good UV, which I did not have Prior.  Performing 10-15 percent water changes weekly as usual, keeping good parameters. 1.023, 79 degrees. Skimming, filter sock frequent changes.  I hope you can see the body spots and cloudy stuff on the top fin.  Again, he eats well, and we added garlic to the food.  We use Rod's food. 
<A good product in my estimation>
There may be a Coral Beauty with Ich as well.  He has white spots.
<... these spots could be evidence of parasitic infestation to nothing but mucus irritation... W/o sampling and microscopic examination I'd do nothing treatment-wise>
 The tank seems happy.  The beauty and trigger will be tough to catch.  Any reef safe treatments or suggestions other than what I'm currently running?
<There are no such thing/s as effective AND reef-safe treatments>
 Do fish always die with Ich, or is a complete recovery possible?
<The latter, assuredly>
Thank you for your time.  Dan
<Certainly welcome. BobF>

Another bizarre incident as we restock the 220!     7/1/12
Greetings Bob and Crew at WWM!
<Salutations Jamie>
Interesting thing, well, only "interesting" this moment, but it may prove to be devastating.
I have had a Acanthurus pyroferus and a (old, meaning I've had a while) Labroides dimidiatus in bare tank, bare bottom quarantine together for the past 30 days. I decided to place them in my 220 gallon display yesterday as they were one of the last "groups" of fish returning. Currently in the tank, in order of placement: 7 Chromis viridis, 1 Amblygobius phalaena with 1 Salarias ramosus (the belly dancer without intestinal parasite), 1 Forcipiger flavissimus, Macropharyngodon geoffryi (she-he was too nasty to the M bipartitus in their too small reef QT, very aggressive eater so I thought if any "leopard wrasse" was going to have a chance in this display, it would be she-he. By the way, I think she is turning into a he, with the red tipped dorsal fin), 5 Pseudanthias bicolor, 1 Nemateleotris magnifica (this was one of a pair that really wasn't a pair, and was the aggressor), and an Amphiprion ocellaris. Well, this morning as I got up super early to feed the M. geoffryi and bipartitus, I noticed there were SPOTS SPOTS SPOTS on the A. pyroferus! My heart leapt into my throat but I held my cool, at least on the surface, for my cute little fishie friends...Anyway, I took a deep breath, got my net,
<Nets, use two>
 turned on the lights, and went fishing! As all the little fishes came awake, I dreaded to see how the L. dimidiatus was as they shared the QT, and he too, was covered in spots. I caught both fish within 40 minutes, and took a good look at them under good light, and indeed, they had round, white, round, salt like grains all over them. Now, here is a girl who dealt with Crypt for what? Three years! So, hey, I know Crypt spots when I see it. And, did it look like a most horrendous infection! Not to mention "advanced" as they both had this terrified look to their eyes and appear to have rapid breathing. Back to the fish room they go!
Several hours later (during which I prayed to the fish gods that after a less than 12 hour exposure, my tank is not infected), I finally had the stomach to look at those two wicked creatures. I find them spot less?!?
<Cycled off?>
Okay, what do I have? A case of the fish with "sleep" in their eyes - meaning, were they slimy during the night and they were in fact covered in sand?
<One can hope... but why not sand on the other slimy fishes... e.g. the Salarias?>
 Or a very evil and deceptive form of Cryptocaryon irritans - hiding in the young and angelic appearing tang and wrasse, waiting for the moment to infect the universe! Popping out at the first sign that other innocent fishes are about and a-ha!
Dear Bob, my husband suggested that I was so traumatized by my previous experience with Crypt that I see things.
<Mmm, doubtful>
 I hope that I was seeing things so my fishies are safe...but what are the chances of it really being Crypt that sprung up overnight and popped off within 2 hours. I only say two because that was how long I waited to go look at them.
Well, I hope that all is going well with you and that you are able to stay cool or do something involving water during this heat wave!
I look forward to hearing your reply!
Best wishes and many thanks,
<I urge patience, further observation, and a thorough dip/bath (w/ formalin and aeration) for all fishes being moved to and fro. BobF>
Re: Another bizarre incident as we restock the 220! Crypt, diag.      7/1/12

G'day Bob!
I did a little detective work this morning and went with a flash light into the fish room to check on those two and yipper's, they looked exactly as they did yesterday morning. Okay now. Reality - they have some type of parasitic infection that appears a little different from Cryptocaryon irritans.
<Nothing on the other fishes>
 The "cycle" is definitely strange (in my minimal understanding), as of lights on this morning, the spots on both fishes are gone. The only sign there may be something there is that the A. pyroferus's pectoral fins are a little patchy looking (like how they respond when the water quality is not as good), otherwise her "skin" looks fine without the bumpiness or white spots. She and the cleaner wrasse has been eating very well without any flashing behaviors the whole time I've had them in QT. I will get some pictures today and tomorrow before lights on and send them to you.
<Really of limited service... You need to or have someone else sample the body slime, look under a 'scope. These spots may be just body slime... something about how the two fishes have been kept, treated>
 I've lowered the salinity in the DT just slightly last night with a 50 gallon water change, knowing that it really wouldn't do anything except making feel like I've done something for the fishes. I started Chloroquine diphosphate treatment for the tang and the wrasse. They will be my guinea pigs to see how Chloroquine works on this parasite.
I will keep my fingers crossed and pray all the time to hope that I removed the fishes BEFORE the parasites cycled off the fish and into my DT. AHHHH!
Isn't it my luck!?! After chlorine-ing my whole tank!
I will hold off on adding any more fish to the DT. The 7 inch Pomacanthus imperator will just have to stay in his 75 gallon bare tank for the next two months or so until I'm sure the DT is still "clean".
One thing I wanted to share and encourage others to do: Please check your fish in the DT early morning before lights on so that you can see if any parasite is on the fish! I remember reading somewhere about this but never thought I would see it...
Bob, what do you think this parasite is? The cycle is really strange because with Crypt, you see spots of fish for around 4 days before they cycle off...This no spots during lights on (or the day), then spots after lights off. I will send pictures and maybe they will add a clue to your diagnosis.
Hope you have a wonderful weekend!
<Thus far... B>
Re: Another bizarre incident as we restock the 220!     7/1/12

Correct, Bob. There is nothing on any of my other fishes.
And you are right, I need to get a microscope and really become a "amateur" marine biologist - or something like that.
<You're more than this already Jamie>
I am glad that in your interpretation of a "wonderful weekend" involves answering e-mails! Lucky for us!
[?] J
<Heeee! It does indeed fill me w/ wonder at times. Cheers, B>
Re: Another bizarre incident as we restock the 220!     7/2/12

Good Morning!
<And you>
An update. 24 hours after treating with Chloroquine diphosphate - no white spots. Her skin looks somewhat like that of a pimply faced teenager, and that is only when she swims directly facing me so that I can see a profile.
<A sort of chemical burn from the CD/P>
Hummm... I was reading about how to get a skin scraping from a fish yesterday - wow! I think I should start building my little laboratory now!
Very complex stuff.
<Not really... Once you've done it a few times...>
 I never thought getting a little 8 gallon nano 6 years ago would lead to this, but the best part of it all? Besides all my fishie friends, it's to get to know all the nice people in this hobby...especially YOU!
<Cheers, B>
Re: Another bizarre incident as we restock the 220!     7/2/12

You make me laugh!
"<Not really... Once you've done it a few times...>"

French Angel and Ich?  4/9/12
i have been battling an Ich outbreak over the last month using quinine.
<Mmm, what type/kind... how administered? This system has rock in it... presents interaction issues>
  This picture shows what I initially thought was a reinfection, but I am not so sure.  The angel's body has small white blotches along with what is seen here in the picture.  What makes me doubt that it is Ich is the fact that when viewing the fish head on, these spots rise off the body very noticeably and they differ in size.
<Need to sample body mucus, observe under a low power microscope. See WWM re>
  From the angle in the picture, the spots do appear to be more flush than they really are, but the way they stick out of the body makes me wonder if it could be something else.
<Good question... could be... simple irritation... from the Quinine, other source>
 I am hoping that you guys can help me find out what this could be if it is indeed not a reoccurrence of the Ich. 
<.... only can be found out by examining... as stated above>
The only thing that comes to mind is lymph, but I've never seen that disease show so many spots as this angel has.  Also, my Atlantic Blue Tang.
which has been my Ich magnet is showing no signs of infection, despite the angel showing these spots for a about five days.  I am also curious how long Ich spots remain in their location vs. lymph which stay in the same spot.  For example, if this spot pattern remains exactly the same for a certain amount of time, would that indicate something other than Ich, which falls off the fish in time.  For what it's worth, the fish is not
exhibiting any other signs of disease -- eating well and breathing normally.
<I'd spiff up water quality and nutrition and call it a day/season...
Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasittkfaq2.htm
"and the linked files above". Bob Fenner>

Healthy fish with white spots 3/12/12
Hello WWM. thanks for your volume of helpful info. I'm a newcomer to the hobby and so far everything has gone by the book. I have a 36 gallon tank with 30 pounds of live rock, 10 lbs of live sand and 30 lbs of crushed coral. after a textbook cycle, we added a cleaner shrimp and 4 Turbos. A week later we added a ocellaris clownfish and a flame angel.
<Mmm, this last... needs more room>

both took to there new environment right away and seem extremely healthy and even friendly. midweek we had to rescape the rock and disturbed the tank. I have white larvae on the glass front
<Mmm, many possibilities... highly unlikely pathogenic>
but on two occasions I have notice white spots in the angels tail fin.
<... stress>
The next day the spots are gone and it shows no signs of distress. I don't believe it's Ich, since the fish seems so healthy. will larvae attach to the fish?
would it be wise to pull the fish out to a qt and treat them just in case?
<Nope; more harmful than doing nothing>
I was worried about stressing them unnecessarily. you're thoughts are greatly appreciated. Melanie
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Re: Marine Ich like spots 1/9/12
Ladies and Gents,
Thanks you very much for your reply.
unfortunately I have no microscope to have better view of the cyst.
<Mmm, easy to acquire... I have a conventional transmission analog type, but mostly use the Mattel-Intel QX>
But I took some pictures that are not as clear as I would like, but see if you can give me your comments.
<Nice pix!>
The cyst have been there at least 4-5 days so if it was Ich they should be bigger and more in the surface.
<Mmm, no; not necessarily>
They seem to be inside the fins "ribs" and not on the surface. They are aligned. Resisted a 30 min FW dip, and are smaller then Ich.
I will wait a couple of days and repeat the visual inspection. By then I will try to scrape one off and take it to a vet for microscope view.
What do you think? see below excel file.
<Does appear to be Cryptocaryon... likely was resident in the system (very common)... not brought in w/ the Tang itself>
<A bunch that could be stated... You are aware that this fish/species is very susceptible to this infestation? Needs a very well established, large (hundreds of gallons) system to generally stay healthy? You can read (for free of course) my article on PBTs on WWM; our collective efforts/FAQs....
Curing it at this point... Read here:
re options. Bob Fenner>

Re: Marine Ich like spots 1/10/12
Dear Crew:
Following-up on the "mysterious" dots that survived Cu, bacterial, fungus, formalin prophylactic treatments as well as Fresh water dips, here is the outcome.
This tang had already passed the above mentioned and Cu treatment successfully but had few dots that did not look as Ich nor velvet.... I though they were scars. Once in the DT after 2 months of stressing QT, on the 2nd day he scratched for the first time so I took him back to a new Quarantine. Unfortunately when taken back into the Quarantine the powder Blue tang did not survive a second round of Cu.
It has been a shock for me. Very frustrating and SAD!
Did a postmortem microscope check and found two types of spots described as A, B in the pictures and another one that was not visible to the naked eye referred as C bello.
Would like to know if you agree with me: A and B are larvae of some kind of skin fluke ( Gyrodactylus ).
<Appear so>
They would hatch in 2-3 month time. In the past I was successful in taking out one of a purple dart fish but the Powder Blue is not as resilient to resist such procedure.
Photo C detail looks like Ich but do <due> to its size and morphology I do not think they are. hope not, since this fish was 2 days in DT and a Ich outbreak would be disastrous.
Your comments would be appreciated.
<Mmm... the Trematodes should have been killed through your treatments...
I'd add an Anthelminthic to a general procedure such as quarantine>
Hope that this post helps to reinforce patience and knowledge to all of us fish lovers out there.
Eric H.
<I as well. B><<RMF converted to .jpgs, cropped the one large image sent>>

Dusty Blenny 10/11/11
Hi Crew,
I have not written in years.. all has been well with my tank. I have a 55 gal with a 30 gal refugium, 80# live rock, mushrooms and metallic green stars.
The fish include a goby, clownfish, coral beauty, Hawkfish, bicolor blenny, royal gramma Basslet and couple of hermit crabs. Question is the blenny looks like it is covered in dust.
<Mmm... it might be... no other fishes are similarly afflicted I take it>
He does hide in a small cave in the live rock which is why I thought it was dust but it doesn't appear to be coming off. All the other fish look the same except the clownfish is swimming at the top of the tank back and forth very fast which is unusual. Side note: I have not introduced anything into this tank in 2 years. I have made absolutely no changes (of course regular water changes). Could this be a fungus or bacteria?
<Mmm, well, these are omnipresent... just as on land/terrestrial environments, in/on all organisms...>
I checked the website but all of those involve introduction of new livestock. Thank you
<Could you send along a well-resolved pic or two? There are latent protozoan infestations that are possibilities... you could do skin et al. sampling and look w/ a microscope re... Am thinking this blenny may be being harassed by the Gramma, perhaps the Cirrhitid here... might be "just" small bits of substrate stuck to its copious body slime/mucus. When in doubt, water change/s! Bob Fenner>
Re: Dusty Blenny 10/11/11

Thank you for the response, Bob but I feel like a nervous mom. It appears to have been rock dust.
He looks perfectly fine and back to normal. Sorry to have botheredd you.
Thank you again.
<Thank you for this follow up Jen. BobF>

Marine Ich Misdiagnosis!!!! 6/4/11
Hey there Crew, I TRULY love this site! I have a 180 gallon salt tank. It has a sump and protein skimmer. I have a Male blonde Naso (The stud) blue hippo tang, royal gramma, a couple of clown fish, sleeper banded goby, and coral beauty. I did a water change this morning and adjusted my skimmer. I came home this afternoon and noticed I had a light cloud in my tank. I thought nothing of it because I did a water change a few hours ago. I started looking at my fish and noticed a few spots on my Tang, Angel, and
gramma. I was ready to freak out and start freshwater dipping! Then I figured I would look up my favorite trusty web site. Before I started this attack WetWebMedia of course. I found a story about a guy who had skimmer and its was putting small micro Ich like bubbles on his fish. I checked my skimmer and it was overflowing from my adjustment this morning. YAAA No Ich! I truly do love this site. There is info and I cant get enough!
<Thank you for your report and kind word Jim. Bob Fenner>

boxfish, is it ich or something else? 5/22/11
I have a HD video of two boxfish posted here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejzKOVhTchc you may want to skip 1st minute.
<Mmm, can't bring up... someone is hogging up the bandwidth here>
Those white spots are on the fish fins for about 2 weeks by now,
<Not pathogenic... would have too likely have killed this Ostraciid by now>
no signs that their number is going up or down. It was suggested and it sounds logical not to treat fish for something unless you're sure what the problem really is. I don't believe it could be micro bubbles from skimmer since the spots number is constant over time.
<I think you may well be right. Puffers are generally quite slimy, compared w/ most other fish groups... Sand particles, small bubbles to adhere to them. A pertinent note: you don't want too many fine bubbles present in captive systems... i.e. there are a few environmental diseases that are resultant from... see WWM re emphysematosis in particular, and look into ways of limiting/coalescing this bubbliness.>
Please advise.
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Identifying Parasites from FW Dip 2/14/11
<Hello Gerard>
I have a red firefish in a new 29 gallon FOWLR tank. He's the only fish I've purchased so far, so I didn't do a quarantine, and being new at this I wasn't confident enough to do a FW dip. Over the five days that he was in the tank he was dashing his head against the sand about once every ten minutes...clearly an itchy fish! I thought it might be a gill infection (Ich, velvet, gill flukes...?)
<Mmm, perhaps. Much more likely though "something" disagreeable w/ water quality>
I caught him and did a FW dip. Almost immediately about a dozen white bumps started swelling on his body, and fell off. They were about a millimeter in length, and shaped like slightly elongated disks: flattened
in one dimension, and elliptical in the other two dimensions. Based on the size and shape of these things, can I rule out velvet or Ich?
<Mmm, can't say from the description; but not likely Protozoans... more likely Flukes>
I don't know how big the velvet or Ich parasites are when they fall off of a fish during a FW dip, but I'm guessing they may be smaller than this.
<Yes. If anything, they might be incorporated in w/ body mucus to be this apparently (large) size>
Assuming these are some type of worm or fluke, what do I do now? I have the fish in a hospital tank, of course, and plan to repeat the dip a few more times over the next few weeks. How long should I let the display tank remain fallow to have a good chance of starving out any juvenile parasites that may hatch? Thanks!
<Read: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/WWMAdminSubWebIndex/question_page.htm
use the search tool, or the indices. Bob Fenner>

marine Ich vs. air bubbles 1/21/11
Good evening,
I just read on your site about a case of mistaken identity--crypt on a batfish that turned out to be micro bubbles.
I may have a similar situation but it is very confusing for me so I am hoping you can shed some light on it. In my 75 gallon reef tank, the newest occupant (about 3 mos. ) is a pyramid butterfly. (Don't worry, he is moving to one of my larger tanks once he gets a little bigger.) He is very attached to a copper band butterfly and they are rarely separate.
These BF's are social animals>
Several nights ago, I was very upset to discover the pyramid had what appeared to be a very serious case of Cryptocaryon irritans although the number of "cysts" were so plentiful-covering every bit of the fish and so pervasive and fine I wondered if it could be Amyloodinium ocellatum (there is a "rolled in sugar" appearance that didn't look like crypt). I was really devastated because the parameters are very good in this tank and there has been no sign of disease for several years. My reading about parasitic diseases told me that it appeared to be a very advanced case and that the fish probably couldn't be saved. However, the fish's appetite is tremendous, eyes are clear, respiration is normal and there is no scratching or lethargy. I did a freshwater dip immediately and it didn't budge the "cysts" at all. He tolerated it beautifully and ate well afterwards. Nothing else in the tank (which does have a 24 watt UV sterilizer on it) has any symptoms, including the copper band or the tuka Anthias which should be even more susceptible. (Or not?)
<About the same>
By tonight, the "cysts" have --somehow--multiplied to the point that the butterfly should be really struggling but he is once again behaving completely normally.
If it is micro bubbles, why is he the only fish exhibiting them?
<For whatever reason/s this fish is "slimier", more susceptible to having bubbles adhere to it, and/or behaviorally it's hanging, swimming about in "bubble land" more>
Why did they just now appear? Why are they so persistent? There are slower fish (black cap Basslet, geometric Perchlet and a pair of ocellaris--1 black and white, 1 naked) with no issues and there are no apparent bubbles in the tank although there is a protein skimmer that puts out tiny bubbles for a brief time when I feed the tank.
Would his slime coat be markedly different than the others?
<Could be>
Should I turn off the protein skimmer?
<I would not>
(I have heard that micro bubbles are not good for the fish either, so I need to address that as well, if that is the case?)
<Possibly; however the fact that you have not (stated) that you've had issues for years warrants against this>
So sorry for all the questions and if you need additional information please let me know.
Jeanne Brown
<I'd just watch, wait and see for now. Bob Fenner>

Marine Itch 11/27/10
HI Bob
Its Srinivas form India
Need your help in recognizing what I suspect is marine velvet/itch.
My Koran angel is currently suspected. Its normal in appearance, eats well swims well and is very active.
When I have a closer look ( sticking on to the front pane), I feel that the black portion of the body looks a bit smoked..It does not appear so when I look at it from about a foot apart. NO clear indication of Itch (as what is seen in infected fishes)
Tank Specifications : 200 gallons FOWLR
Fishes : 1 Koran Angel (7 months), 1 Percula clown (9 Months), 1 Regal Tang (6 Months) and 1 Tomato Clown (2 months)
<Mmm, the Regal tang would almost assuredly be the first to show signs of either of these Protozoans>
All these were in my old tank (90 gallon) which broke down. I transferred them to the existing one constructed a couple of months age and added them early this month.
The only addition was the Live sand procured.
I never had an itch before. There has been no addition to the existing stock.
Could it be an onset of the disease?
<Not likely, no>
What care should I take?
Srinivas Manian
<Just reading for now; on Koran Diseases, Protozoans... look to improved water quality and nutrition for the time being. BobF>

Is This Crypt? 7/25/10
<Hello Jimmy>
I have a friend that has a gorgeous Imperator Angel ( 5-6") that was recently acquired by mail order. It has been in a QT for approx 4 weeks treated "prophylactically" in SG 1.009 and Chloroquine Phosphate per Goeman's recommendations. The fish is eating, and seems "OK". The question here is what are these white spots?
My friend thinks that they are Cryptococcus <Cryptocaryoniasis, Cryptococcus is a genus of fungi.> irritans. I am not so sure.
<I believe your friend is correct.>
Firstly, these have been on the fish for 2-3 weeks. The fish is breathing OK and when one of these lesions does go away there is some pitting and discoloration. I have seen this before as a form of HLLE when treating a Naso Tang with hyposalinity.
<Is not a form of erosion.>
Every time we talk this issue comes up. I have recommended that he continue the Chloroquine but start raising the
salinity. Any thoughts?
<This fish needs to be treated with a more effective medication. See here.
James (Salty Dog)>

Appears so. RMF

Possible Ich Diagnosis and Remedy Question 05/07/10
Hello and thanks for your time. First let me set the stage. I have a 75 gallon tank that has been setup for 5 weeks from a 30 gallon tank the tank was allowed to cycle using waste water and live rock from the 30 gallon before the addition of any fish. The parameters are all good. The livestock include multiple shrimp, snails, hermit crabs and corals (LPS and softies) with the following fish - Regal Tang, Yellow Tang, 6 line Wrasse, 2 False Perculas, Dragon Goby.
Now the story. About a week ago my clowns began to host my largest Duncan Coral at which time they had no signs of injury. I was very excited because I enjoy watching them and the Duncan doesn't seem to mind. However the Clowns have now developed 4 (3 on one and 1 on the other) white raised bumps on their body with no small spots on their fins at all. One of the 4 spots has a red spot in the center. 3 out of the 4 spots are located near the posterior dorsal fin, the other just posterior to the gill. One of the clowns (the one with 3 spots) also has developed a white ring around his eye that I believe is new.
<Were/are these clowns wild-caught? Have you read on WWM re their diseases?>
The eye does not appear proptotic. This is the fish that spends the most time in the coral. I believe that means he is becoming or is already the male?
<Not necessarily... see WWM re... females grow faster, larger...>
No other fish show signs of stress or injury. The clowns seem healthy and are eating well and viciously defending their territory. I'm wondering if this is ich in its tomont stage or possible damage from rubbing the coral?
<More likely the latter... but could be a couple of other protozoan parasites that are more common to Amphiprionines... IF crypt, it would have def. showed on the tangs first>
Is there anything else I should include on my differential?
<? Reading>
If this is ich what can I use to treat the whole tank? I know this is not ideal but I cannot remove all the fish from the tank at this point as I live in a 1 bedroom apartment and my wife would kill me.
Thanks for your time my fish and I thank you.
<Start here: http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/FishInd2.htm
toward the bottom... Learn to/use the search tool and indices. Bob Fenner>

Ich with no symptoms -- 02/14/10
hi there,
how's it going?
<Ok, and you?>
I've been reading up on the articles that's been written about ich, and I'm a little confused about what's going on with my threadfin butterfly.
About a week ago, I noticed that he had some white spots on his tail fin and pectoral fins (maybe about over a dozen on his tail fin). Some of these spots look like the pictures I've seen of fish with ich, while other spots
look more elongated and almost cloudy.
<Could be summat else>
There's none that I can see on the rest of the body. Around this time, I also noticed that there were quite a bit of tiny debris/dust like particles floating in my tank, so I thought it may have been things like this caught between the fins (if that's even possible).
<Not likely, no>
A few days later, I changed and added in more filter wool and the water has cleared up a bit since (but still not as clear as it used to be). Anyways, the spots haven't gone away... and I'm not too sure if its ich because my fish hasn't been showing any other symptoms - no scratching, no clamped fins, eating well etc... After I emailed you last time, I took your advice and bought a red liner cleaner shrimp. I noticed whenever the shrimp tries to clean the fish's tail, it shimmers and twitches abruptly and then darts away, but he'll always comes back to the shrimp soon after. I don't know if this is normal or if this has anything to do with the white spots on his tail. Do you have any idea what it may be?
<Could be typical cleaner/host behavior>
<... welcome. BF>

Re: Ich with no symptoms 2/16/10
Hey Bob,
I'm alright myself thanks, been reading up more on fish-keeping.. didn't realize there was so much to it when I first decided to pick up the hobby!
So, after I emailed you the other day, I noticed more white spots on my butterfly but this time on its body and it looked like ich. It was kind of late, so I decided I was going to set up my quarantine tank in the morning.
When I woke up though, all the spots were gone. I thought these white spots are usually visible for a few days, or does it vary?
<Yes... often the calm of evening brings a (temporary) cessation of symptoms>
Well... tonight (two days later) I noticed a few spots again on his fins... not as many as before though. I thought that's kind of fast if it's a reinfection of ich.. maybe ich that was still on his body but just not visible.. or something else entirely. I noticed him flash once tonight against the sand, but apart from that haven't seen him scratch against
rocks or any other symptoms. Does this sound like ich to you?
Thanks again,
<It does... you have a not-untypical infested system. Read here:
and the linked files above for background and a view as to your choices here. BobF>

Re: Ich with no symptoms 2/17/10
Hi there,
I read through the faq link you gave me, and I'm guessing with the live rock/shrimp/hermit crabs that are currently in my main tank, the best way to treat the tank would be to let it sit fallow for a month or two... Is that correct?
<Perhaps the best approach to rid the system of "very" infectious agent/s... but you might do as well to "aim" for a sort of balance here>
Problem is my quarantine tank is only 5.5gallons, and from what I've read, I don't think it'd be a good idea to put all my fish in there. (I have a clown, threadfin butterfly, yellowtail blue damsel and 2 yellow coral gobies) What do you think?
<Would need a larger treatment system>
Also, on something off topic, what are your thoughts on using Seachem Purigen instead of a protein skimmer?
<Is a worthy product, but I would still use a skimmer for sure>
I've been looking into getting a protein skimmer for my tank for a while now (I have a Aquaone 980, and the guy who I bought it from set it up with the Jaubert system) but all the fish stores I've gone to have told me I'd
need to drill holes into my filter box if I wanted to fit one in.
<Mmm... there are other approaches... Could you add a sump?>
So, instead it was suggested I add some bags of Purigen in my filter instead of a protein skimmer. For the time being, I have Purigen in my filter but I'm not sure whether that'd be ok, since for most part, everything I've read has indicated it is pretty much essential to have a protein skimmer. Your thoughts?
Thanks Bob,
<Re chemical filtrants, are posted/archived on WWM. BobF>

Re: Ich with no symptoms 2/18/10
Hi Bob,
Hmm... what do you mean by "aim for a sort of balance"? I looked into adding a sump... could be a possibility. I'm thinking I could use my 5.5gallon tank for it, and get a larger quarantine tank if needed... so I'm just looking into ways I can 'pump' water into the sump etc now.
Thanks again,
<Again the referral to read here:
and the linked files above. B>
Re: Ich with no symptoms
Hi again,
Ah, are you referring to having optimal water parameters and healthy fish to combat diseases/parasites? I just went through the link again to see what I missed... and I remember reading about the three circles in your book. Sorry if I seem kind of thick here!
<Read the linked files above. B>

Ick, Quinine Sulfate, Snails, Shrimp and Hermit Crabs... reading, helping yourself 2/8/10
Hi there,
I wrote in the other day and was directed to use Quinine Sulfate to treat my fishes for Ick.
<... please always include previous correspondence>
Fish include
Mappa Puffer (she's really tiny (1 inch) so all others are safe for now)
Blue Tang
True Perc
Raccoon B/F
Other occupants are
20-30 Turbo Snails
50 or so Dwarf and Red leg Hermit Crabs
1 Skunk Cleaner Shrimp
I know that my snails will be harmed if I treat them with this but my tanks Ick problem is REALLY bad. The snails have those little white spots all over there shells.
<This is not Ich on the snails... likely either encrusting tube worms of some sort, or "hardness" marks...>
Its also all over the walls and rock too...
<This also is not Ich/Crypt>
so I was wondering how do I get the Ick off of them (the snails and hermit crabs) with out treating them? Do I do a number of fw dips, or do I treat them some other way? Does Ick even live on snail shells or is it possible that this is something else (looks like Ick to me)?
<Is something else, no worries. Do your fishes themselves have discrete spots?>
Also I have a Skunk Cleaner Shrimp. Does he need to be kept away from treatment as well or is it just the hermit crabs, snails and clams that are in need of being protected?
<I would treat all fishes elsewhere IF they are infested>
I think I remember somewhere on your site that certain inverts could be treated but a lot cant.
Thank you so much for your help with this. I'm sure I would have been much worse off with out you and your Crew.
<... please, search before writing us. Start here:
then here:
Put in words like "Cryptocaryon Identification", Quinine use... and read, and soon. IF this is Crypt, your fishes are in immediate peril.
Bob Fenner>

Puffer with parasite(s).. or not? With -- 1/22/10
Hello crew,
I have a 4.5 year old Stars and Stripes Puffer that I emailed about a few days ago, I rescued him from my LFS as he was in a 37 gallon tank, I'm in the process of cycling our new 215 gallon tank, and he'll be going in that shortly. He eats like a pig and I try to feed him a varied diet soaked in Zoecon supplement. I was just looking at him up close and he has these little specs on all of his fins, I can't tell if they're micro air bubbles or something else, water parameters are as follows:
<Looks like Crypt from here>
Salinity: 1.025
pH: 8.3
Ammonia: 0 / Undetectable
Nitrites: 0 / Undetectable
Nitrates: 0 / I saw a ever so slight hue in the tester so it could possibly be 2-3
Calcium: 470
<A bit high... and Mg?>
The water seems fine and I do 30% - 50% weekly water changes just to ensure things stay okay as he creates a large bio-load and he's currently in my 55 gallon tank until the larger one cycles. If you have any idea please let me know! By the way, he's 13" long so a freshwater dip would be extremely hard as he's not a fan of being netted.
Thanks again for everything you guys do!
<Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cryptpuffs.htm
and the linked files above... and soon. Bob Fenner>

Re: Puffer with parasite(s).. or not? 1/22/10
Thanks that's what I was thinking it was, but I couldn't be sure so I wanted a second opinion, the other day he ate a Sea Hare
<?! Should not be housed with>
which polluted the tank and I lost a couple of fish and it stressed him out to the max.
<This system is too small even for the puffer>
I quickly did a 75% water change plus added carbon to the filtration, I'm assuming that's when he started showing signs as no other fish has any but him. He's currently removed from the tank and I'm going to treat based on the reading in the link you provided.
<Ah, good>
I appreciate the help! Thanks again.
<Welcome. BobF>
Re: Puffer with parasite(s).. or not? 1/23/10
<Big A>
I found out the hard way about the Sea Hare, I didn't do enough research as it escaped my mind that he was even in there. When I say other fish I mean 4 Green Chromis, there's nothing else but snails in there, the 215 gallon tank is almost completely cycled so everything will be in a much larger home, the total water volume will be around 325 gallons. Thanks again.
<... Umm, what have you done, will you do to treat the present Cryptocaryon infestation? If you don't act, haven't acted yet... these fishes will be lost. Don't write, but read, formulate a plan (today!) and act! B>

Is it ich? -- 01/17/10
HI Guys (and gals)!!
<Howdy Frank>
I appreciate all the help over the years. I've got a question about ich/white spot. I can't honestly tell whether that's what this is.
I've got a blue neon goby, a black ocellaris, a high finned red banded goby, and a green banded goby in a 75 gallon tank (taking my time upping the stock in the tank and adding corals/inverts in the meantime). The blue neon goby is the problem. He's not scratching and he doesn't have them all over. What he's got are two white spots on him that I never noticed before (could just be me not being observant about a color pattern). While one of them is the size of a piece of salt, the other is about 3-5 times as big and looks like a patch of something instead. They're both white, but they're the only two on him. I've watched for 3 days and there don't seem to be any more developing (will continue monitoring though) and none of the other fish have any troubles at all. I know there are probably thousands of marine diseases this could be
<Not quite, thank goodness>
and it could be nothing at all, but I've been wanting to buy another coral and before I go and set up the hospital tank as a QT and remove the possibility of treating the little buggers, I want to make sure I've got a better idea. Could this just be a little damage to the scale-less body from a fight with another goby that I wasn't witness to?
<I do think so. If it were one of the few protozoan parasites, there would be many more spots, marks on all fishes present>
I've heard ich falls off and then reappears.
If I wait a week and don't see any worsening or, worse yet, disappearance/relapse cycle, do you think I'll be in the clear? Is there a dip I should use?
<I would not dip your fish/es here. Just wait, be patient>
Thanks again for all the help over the years. I should have read every post before I set up my first tank. So many preventable errors.
PS As a follow-up, I'm relatively good about the quarantining (though I'll admit that when I bought the ocellaris for another tank about 4 years ago I wasn't doing it then. I've never had a single disease in my tank (not that I can do a necropsy given how fast the cleanup crew takes care of fish who fall prey). I was under the impression that ich is really a hitchhiker and I haven't bought anything new in over 6 months.
<This "spottiness" could be a biological agent, or not... With time, it will likely "die off" due to "something" or someone missing in its life cycle. Bob Fenner>

Amyloodinium/Cryptocaryon, microscopic ID 11/20/2008 Hi all! <Mariusz> I've had a break out of Amyloodinium or crypt in both my quarantine tanks. Quarantine tank 1 with 2 clowns (died) had symptoms of Amyloodinium (powdery dust). Quarantine tank 2 has brown powder brown tang and a strawberry dotty but with symptoms of crypt (salt like dots). I've taken wet smears of the fish from both tanks. Both showed the same parasites microscopically. Tank 2 all the fish behaving normally (looks like crypt), Tank 1 all dead (looked like Amyloodinium). My question is that I'm have a tough time differentiating Amyloodinium and crypt under the microscope. I've looked at images in P.T.K Woo's book (Fish Diseases and disorders vol. 1, 2nd edition) of Amyloodinium tomonts. I see structures that resemble single Amyloodinium tomonts of various sizes, huge to small. Then I also see something very similar to these tomonts but if you look carefully they have very small active cilia. <This last may be spurious> I figure I may have both Amyloodinium and crypt. Also these samples have copper in them but from what I understand copper doesn't effect tomonts of Amyloodinium or crypt. <Usually not... unless very high dosage/concentration...> So my confusion is ciliated versions and non-ciliated version of 2 very similar things, i.e. what is what? <I would look for two (macro, micro) nuclei here for the Ciliate... the Dinoflagellate is easily stained with iodine...> Part of me thinks the ciliated versions are crypt tomonts and non-ciliated are crypt tomonts that are mature and no longer have cilia and have tomites dividing. With all these things that look so similar how am I to differentiate what is Amyloodinium or Cryptocaryon microscopically from smears/wet mounts? <The above is what I use... Do look for a copy of Ed Noga's "Fish Disease, Diagnosis & Treatment" for more here> oh forgot there are red dots in some (not all) of these tomont looking things. <Mmm, the dinospores of Amyloodinium have red stigma...> Can wait to get my camera for the scope...this would be so much easier you think?...lol Thanks again!

Is this Ich? - 07/13/08 Hi crew - <Hello Joel.> Along with all of your other truly valuable services, I am very fond of your ability to educate me by identifying various biological life forms. <I'll give it a try.> I have a silver-tipped pulsing xenia that has been in QT for 21 days as of tomorrow <Very good quarantine practice.> , is pulsing quite happily, and I plan to move to the main display tomorrow as well. However, I don't know if these guys are tomonts or just some white filter feeder. <The latter.> These images are all at 10x magnification, and image 2553.JPG shows what they look like under normal viewing conditions. Any idea what they are? <Hydromedusae, also called hydroid jellyfish. See http://www.wetwebmedia.com/jellyidfaqs.htm.> I hope not tomonts. <Nope. Tomonts are even smaller. They are 300-500 micrometers and look totally different.> Thanks, Joel.
<Cheers, Marco.>

Sick clown trigger, 6/11/08 Dear WWM, <Hello> I have had a 5" clown trigger for almost 9 months and recently his fins have been getting cloudy (not the whole fin, just small parts, almost in a line). I quickly put him in the hospital tank and treated with copper for seven days and it all went away. <Copper would not help cloudy fins, most likely environmental in nature.> The other fish weren't infected and I left them be. (Picasso Trigger, Niger Trigger, Yellow Tang, Blue Angel) <Hope this is a big tank.> Everyone was and still is eating fine, including the clown. I put the clown back in the main tank with everyone after a week and everything was great. Two days ago his fins went nuts with spots and I noticed the Picasso trigger had it also, only A LOT less. I quickly took them out and put them in the hospital with copper and let the others be. The next day the blue angel and tang had Ich like spots so I took all the fish out and put them in a separate hospital tank (all with the same water parameters). <Ok, but remember to run the main tank fallow for at least 4 weeks to rid it of this parasite.> My local fish specialty store, after viewing a picture of the clown trigger, told me that the spots were to big for Ich and that it looked like more of an infection than a disease. <Ich is a parasitic infection, so I'm not sure what they are talking about.> They told me to treat with Melafix and see how that does. <Tea tree oil, useless.> The Niger, Yellow Tang and Blue angel are now almost Ich free but the Clown is getting worse and the Picasso trigger is also (both in a separate hospital tank). <Check your water quality and copper levels.> Any idea what this could be? <Sure sounds like ich to me.> I can send a picture if needed. <Might help.> I love my Picasso and Clown! I would hate for anything to happen to them! Thank you, AJ <Welcome> <Chris>

Re: Sick clown trigger 6/11/08 Hi Chris, <Hello> They told me it was a biological infection... I cannot explain what they told me but to sum it up it was a biological infection. <Too me ich would fall into this category.> The tea tree oil seems to be helping the clown trigger, but it could just be my imagination. <Most likely it is just the ich going through it's lifecycle, it will most likely return in force. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm .> Here is a picture. There are more spots now (including some on his body, but those are disappearing) but all of them are cloudy. What is your opinion? Thanks, AJ <Looks to me like a pretty classic case of ich.>

Treating Green Clown Goby for Ich? Env. dis. misdiag. - 05/31/08 Hi folks! <Jennifer> Thanks for all of the help you have given thus far! I had a question <No longer?> that I can't seem to find a clear answer to yet but if I've missed it I do apologize. I have a new reef system (24 gallon Nano cube) that's been up and cycled for about a month now. (Param.s have been stable since the cycle ended a month ago with 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, less than 5 nitrate, ph 8.2, SG 1.025.) I added some fish about two weeks ago - a purple Firefish, a green clown goby and last week added a hi fin banded goby and pistol shrimp pair. In addition to them I have a Peppermint shrimp, a Fire shrimp, a pom pom crab and a few corals (mushrooms and zoos). I hadn't quarantined the fish as I usually would have due to them being from the goby family and from seeing recommendations on the issue online so everyone's in the display tank. Everything was going great until last night I noticed a few white spots on my green clown goby (though he's been active, eating great and even putting on a little bit weight). I promptly moved him to a hospital tank (bare bottom with a heater, filter with filter floss pulled from the display tank, small powerhead and small cave) after giving him a 2 minute fresh water dip. I gave him another freshwater dip again today. He's generally active and ate some Cyclops today. I'm not sure what to do at this point. I'm not really sure where the ich <Mmm, not Ich/Crypt... the other fish would be infested...> came from since none of them had any symptoms when I got them and neither of the other two fish are showing any symptoms (active and eating like pigs). What can I do to help him out? Should I pull out the Firefish and shrimp goby and treat them too? <Mmm, no... I'd return the Gobiodon to the main system... Something else is the cause of the spots... perhaps a generalized poisoning from the Cnidarians...> I'm afraid of splitting up the shrimp/goby pair since they've paired so well even though they were bought separately. I have a pair of ocellaris clowns ready and waiting in another tank but I'm afraid of them contracting the parasite too so I definitely don't want to put them in yet. If I don't see any signs of the Firefish and shrimp goby contracting the parasite and leave the green clown goby in the hospital tank for 4 weeks, can I assume that the parasites haven't been able to find a fish host and thus their life cycle is broken? <Mmm, no... see WWM re marine fish parasitology> I know that to leave a tank fallow it needs no fish in it but if the other gobies don't get it then wouldn't the end result be pretty much the same with the parasites being unable to find a fishy host? <...> It seems to be a pretty mild infestation at this point since the green clown didn't have it too badly and no one else has it. I was already planning on getting a neon goby at some point because I really love them, but would that help? <Mmm, no, not likely> or getting a skunk cleaner shrimp? What can I do at this point to help my clown goby and prepare the tank for my clownfish? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!! Jen <Read... again... all would be similarly afflicted if this were a pathogenic problem. Bob Fenner> 

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