CryptFAQs24

FAQs on Marine Ich, White Spot, Cryptocaryoniasis 24

C. trifascialis... some Butterflyfishes are quite susceptible to Crypt.... and Copper!

Ich in QT tank! 12/18/06 I have had my main tank running fallow for 6 weeks now and want to return the fish to the main tank. I noticed my purple tang has a few white spots on both of her sides. (now cannot return any of them?) <Correct... not w/o re-infesting the main/display system> Tank mates are: porcupine puffer, pygmy angel, marine Betta and bar goby. Should I treat the tank with copper-safe again? <... up to you... the Treatment tank is separate from your main system I take it. I would not treat my main system if I could avoid it> Medicate for 2 weeks then recoup for 2 weeks? When transferring from one tank to another can you just drip them? Thank you in advance for your response. <... Am not clear what you're referring to here re where you intend to treat the fishes... can be "drip-acclimated"... but I would go the extra insurance route of dipping/bathing the fishes enroute (see WWM re: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dips_baths.htm and the linked files above), and simply place them in the "old" tank. Bob Fenner>

Re: Ich in QT tank! ... needing to read, understand... 12/19/06 I apologize for not making this clear. Yes, the QT tank is separate. I was not sure if I had to retreat or could do a dip. <Mmm, I would treat here> Is another dip necessary after the QT period? <Possibly... and a good idea if your fish livestock can "handle" the added stress> Or can you just move/drip them? I know you should dip them upon arrival to the QT tank. You also state to keep a sponge filter in your system/sump for available use. Is it possible to keep one in a canister filter? <Yes> Would you rinse it weekly? Lastly, is copper-safe or formalin the better route for ich? Your help is much appreciated. <... Copper-safe in most circumstances... Please read re...: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm and the linked files above... Bob Fenner>

Help With Button Polyps! 12/4/06 Hi! <Hello! Mich here.> I need help with my button polyps. I got a small colony of them on a rock about 2 months ago. They seemed fairly healthy, but eventually they were not all opening as much during the day. I went to my LFS and they told me to raise the pH, so I did and it seemed to help. <Do you check you tank chemistry regularly? If not, you should start.> About a week after that, my Mandarin Goby got what I thought to be Ich (according to various disease identification sources I have found online). Well I went again to my LFS but my favourite customer service rep was not working. I talked to another one of the guys there and he gave me some meds for the fish. <Best to do your own research before making purchases.> I read the instructions but apparently not well enough. After adding it in correctly, I read the instruction booklet over again and there was a precautions section that said to remove any invertebrates. <Yes. There are no reef safe treatments for Ich.> Now, 2 days later, my Mandarin has died, (and had been removed, obviously) and my Button Polyps are all closed, excreting some sort of mucus and some of them are turning white on the tips. <I'm sorry for you loss.> Along with that, I have a small piece of LR with 3 VERY small frags of Leather Coral. They have been thriving beautifully thus far, until a few days ago. Their tentacles have all retracted and the frags all have that smooth look, although there is no discolouration. Well, I prepared a small , makeshift quarantine tank and placed the two rocks in there (with the Button Polyps and the Leathers) and I am now waiting to see what happens. <And mixed a new batch of salt water to use in this tank, right?.> I just really am getting frustrated here, because my Mandarin started off as this beautiful fish, and then I had to give him meds to make him better but he ended up dying, and I think that the meds for him have harmed my polyps and my leather. <Yes, the med has harmed, and may kill the leather and the polyps, and most likely hastened the death of the Mandarin.> What can I do from here? <The most important thing you can do is educate yourself! Please start reading! There is much to learn. Seems like you are missing many basic concepts and relying primarily on advise from you LFS. This is not the recipe for long term success. Much of the information can be found on this website. But I think you would be most wise to invest in a basic book. You will save yourself money, time and frustration. I think "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" by Robert M. Fenner is the best place to begin. Hope that helps. Miss Kris

Not your regular ich question - Need advice please ... Ian... spelling, grammar, formatting... 11/29/06 Hi Crew, Real quick question - after trying five times, I finally had a Blue Jaw trigger survive QT - 3 weeks + 1 day as recommended by your site - I do now see certain FAQs recommend 4 weeks of QT but all the articles pointed to a 21 day QT. In addition I did a prophylactic dose of Paraguard for about 1 week. I just put him in the tank today and I noticed - barely- a few white spots on one of the upper fins. It could be nothing but given my history I panicked since all the fish in the tank are perfect. <could be ich...I generally keep the fish in qt for 4-6 weeks or until Im sure they don't have ich and they are eating readily!> Should I take him out (if I can catch him) and put it in QT? Is it too late? <could be...ich drops down into the sand and rocks...and they reproduce EXPONENTIALLY! so you may have a problem on your hands. best to qt all the fish because if one is infected chances are ...they all are infected!> Do I have to do the whole fallow routine after 1 day of possible exposure? I'm really desperate especially since I believe I followed correct husbandry practices.<good luck, IanB> Thanks

Question about ick? Need... to read 11/25/06 Hey, <Neighhhhhh!> I was looking over the website and I wasn't sure if I answered my question or not. I have been treating a yellow tang and a percula clown in my quarantine tank <Now a treatment tank> for ick over the last few days. They had all the classic symptoms for it. The clown seems to be getting better, he is eating and swimming well. The tang's eyes have become cloudy, fins are starting to look bad, and gill working pretty hard. Is this a symptom of ick or could it be something else. <Could be, but more likely a symptom of the treatment (Acanthurids are sensitive to copper, poor water quality, the combo.> I have been treating them with rid ick for about 4 days. <And Malachite...> Thank you for your help. It is greatly appreciated!! Zach <Read on my friend... your present answers and some others to soon come are answered on WWM. Yellow Tang Disease, Crypt... Bob Fenner>

Ick Treatment 11/23/06 I was going through your site reading about UV Sterilizers and Ick. I have a 55 gallon marine tank with a sand sifting goby, a blue spotted puffer, a maroon clown, a fire angel, a yellow tale damsel and two turbo snails. I have only 45 lbs of live rock and two bags worth of live sand. I have a 220 watt Jebo light system. I keep my ph at 8.2 and my salt level at 1.024. Sometimes I will let the salt level drop on purpose to 1.020 but not to often. <Stability is very important, changes very stressful on your tank inhabitants.> I am running a Unimax pro 250 filter with a 9 watt uv light built in and a small bio wheel filter as well as a Skilter filter/skimmer and two power heads for added current. I would like to share with you and your readers a method that has been working for me for close to two years now with no diseases. Whenever I bring home a new fish I add Ick Away to the tank. <Malachite Green is the active ingredient in Ick Away, pretty nasty stuff, read more on WetWeb.> Of course I stop all filters first. I do this because preventative measures are the best measures. <QT?> It seems to me that many folks are not doing this and are getting ick. <You are adding a toxic chemical to your tank, is the cure worse than the disease.> As you know once ick is in the tank it is very hard to get rid of so why not stop it before it has a chance to take over and kill. <Yes, but much better ways of doing it, QTing all fish and treating outside of the main tank is a superior method.> I also do not like copepods as many others seem to like in the tank. When ever I see them all over my tank I add Ick Away and lower the salt level. <Pods are a good indicator of overall health, good detritivores, and a healthy snack for most fish.> I do not have a fish that requires the diet of copepods so therefore they are not welcome in my tank. <Short-sided in my opinion.> Could you tell me the benefits of copepods? <See above.> Can copepods lead to clogging of the fish's gills or to other parasites? <Not at all, a beneficial inhabitant of a healthy tank.> I also have a 55 gallon fresh water tank alongside the 55 marine that has two Blood red parrot fish. In this tank there is no sand/gravel for the hole in the head worms to thrive. <Hole in the head is usually nutritional in nature.> I also run from time to time Ick Away treatments regardless of the need. As a result no worms or ick. I think many folks may think ick treatments kills the live rock and this has proven to be false. <Would if dosage was adequate to kill the ick, basically you are adding a known carcinogen to your tank for no reason. Please read up on QTing as a better method of disease control.> James Currie <Chris>

Ick Treatment Part II 11/23/06 Hi Chris. <Hello> Thanks for your advise!!! <Anytime> I will use one of my spare tens or my 20 long and quarantine the new fishes. <Good plan, will serve you well.> Thanks for letting me know about the bedsides of ick away and the benefits of Pods in the tank. I will no longer allow the salt levels to drop as well. I will purchase some new live rock to bring back the Pods and perhaps some more live sand. <Sounds good.> Question? Micro bubbles are coming from my Skilter filter and I am wondering if I should toss out the Skilter and replace with an skimmer only unit. Can you explain to me why the micro bubbles are bad? I had a bubble bar on a pump as well but became confused as it seemed as though marine tank keepers don't like air bubbles at all in the main tank so I removed it. <The Skilter does not have the best reputation, but if you are getting good production out of it so much the better. Microbubble are said to irritate corals mostly, although mine have not seen any adverse effects from them. Plus the bubble bars tend to splash water when the bubbles pop creating excessive salt creep.> Also when I hooked up my Unimax 250 pro canister filter last week was I supposed to fill it with the tank water and shut it down for a period of time to allow the bacteria time to colonize or did I just prolong that from taking place? <Will colonize with time, best to just run it and let the bacteria build up that way.> Again thank you for you time. I appreciate it. <Sure> James Currie <Chris> Crypto/Ich 11/24/06 Dear WWM crew: <Dana> I have read through the voluminous material on crypto, most of which makes eminent sense. <Like your adverb choices, use> Despite many years of experience with marine fishkeeping, I committed the cardinal sin of not adequately quarantining a new fish before adding to an established (12 years +) fish-only system, and predictably, am now in the throes of battling an outbreak of crypto (last experienced in this aquarium 10 years ago). Beyond the addition of a new fish, I cannot identify changes in water chemistry or temperature. My first intervention was a 5-7 minute freshwater dip and lowering of specific gravity to 1.010, an approach that was quite successful during the last episode (again, 10 years ago). The fish appeared to tolerate these changes, and I performed a follow-up freshwater bath 3 days later to eliminate the last visible signs of crypto. Unfortunately, the crypto has recurred (approximately 7 days after the change in S.G. and initial freshwater dip). <Is established in your system...> I understand that the ideal approach would be to move all of the fish to separate treatment tanks <Mmm, all to one> and allow the main system to lie fallow for 4-6 weeks. My questions are as follows: 1. Will the use of chelated copper sulfate in a bare-bottomed treatment tank destroy nitrifying bacteria from non-contaminated filter media (from another tank)? <Most often, yes> In other words, is there any point in treating in a Â³cycledÂ² aquarium/treatment tank, or does it make sense to perform good water changes of 20-25% based on the assumption that the copper will completely destroy the biologic filter? <The latter> Unfortunately, most of the colorimetric assays for ammonia/nitrite will be uninterpretable following the addition of copper. <Actually... I haven't found this to be the case> 2. If the nitrifying bacteria can survive chelated copper treatment, is it possible (though not ideal) to treat a fish only system with chelated copper following the removal of substrate (would obviously eliminate some nitrifying bacteria from removal of sand, other calcareous material, but the system has a wet-dry filter)? <Better to remove the fishes to a new system...> The issue is the number of hospital tanks required for treatment of the fish (4) currently in the system (see below) <If they'll fit in psychologically, physiologically... all in one, two> 3. In terms of copper sensitivity, what is your experience treating the following species: 1) Achilles Tang 2) Emperor Angel 3) Niger Trigger 4) Spiny boxfish? <All can tolerate, benefit from the lower effective dosage rate/concentration of chelated copper> I obviously realize that the major error of not quarantining (have previously been strictly adherent to this practice following my last outbreak of crypto a decade ago) has already transpired, but I would appreciate your advice going forward. I have learned (well, maybe not given the lack of quarantine) not to panic or make knee-jerk responses, but I would like to act quickly. I appreciate your help. Thanks, Stupid in Steel Town (Dana) <Mmm... you might be a candidate (due to the age, size, initial good health) here for a series of dilute formaldehyde and pH-adjusted freshwater dips/baths... moving the thus treated fish/es into (pathogen free) circumstances... tank/s... a few (two, three) of these procedures, along with allowing the main system to go host-less for weeks... would be the route I would go given the information presented here. Bob Fenner>

Re: Ich 11/21/06 Bob: As you suggested, I have read the articles & FAQs found on "Wet Web Media", plus others and have just a few question/requests for clarification: 1. You reference "letting the main tank go fallow" (without fish) and imply that the Ich protozoa can survive without a host from a month to a few months. Is there an optimum time period to leave it fallow and what would be the time-frame that would assure that they've all perished? <About a month is nearing the proximate ideal... more and the livestock suffers... Lowering spg, raising temp. (Q10 factor) can/does impugn the host-less parasites chances of survival further> 2. Freshwater, pH adjusted bath protocols with Methylene Blue: How do I pH adjust freshwater? <... add sodium bicarbonate/baking soda... is best> My LFS doesn't have Methylene Blue - where would I be likely to find it? <The Net... etailers... listed on the Links Pages of WWM...> Also, I'm not clear as to what you mean by "system water". Since it's a freshwater dip/bath, surely not water from one of the tanks? <Is the water from the tank/s... but not for the FW dip/bath use> Sorry to be so obtuse. <No worries. Clarity is pleasurable> 3. You recommend a 2-3 week quarantine in "sterile" tank (w/PVC for hiding): I have a quarantine tank set up as a small version of my main tank (Sand & Rock). Will this not work? <If the parasite/s are not transferred, this should work out fine> If it will, with qualifications, what would the qualifiers be (other than I realize that if a fish(es) show disease I'd have to remove them to a "Hospital Tank" and re-install rock and sand (after "sterilizing" the tank and it's components)? <Yes> It just seems to me that a "mini-reef" would be a lot more conducive to "hardening up" and overcoming the stress of capture, shipment, etc. <We are in agreement here> 4. Quarantine time-frame: In your articles I note that you recommend a 2-3 week time period and in others, I note in Scott Fellman's article a 21 day period and in others I've noted a month. Your comments? <The longer, the surer... as stated, in consideration with the stress, damage that isolation in these circumstances generally accrues> 5. In your article on Ich treatment, Copper, you recommend 7 - 10 days in a .10 - .15 ppm copper environment and in your advice to me below indicate as much as .35. <Mmm, a bit higher on the lower concentration in ppm... 0.15 at the lowest... Ideally 0.20 ppm. to no more than 0.35 ppm free cupric ion concentration> I elected something between .25 & .30 (given your advice on the impact of copper on my Tangs). It's now been 2 weeks and I'm a bit unsure as to where to send them next. Leave them in the "sterile" hospital tank (PVC only) with reduced copper (down eventually to 0.0 ppm) or put the few I have left in my quarantine tank (I have 3 fish in there now who've been there for 2+ weeks). I've still got 5+/- weeks left (depending on your advice above) to leave my main tank fallow so I can't put them in the main tank and it seems to me tank the sterileness of the hospital tank isn't too conducive to "happy" fish. Your advice? <If you are assured the fishes in the Q tank are clean... I'd move them there> I thank you in advance for you advice. Best Regards Teri Hewson <Bob Fenner>

A new tank with ick 11/18/06 Hi WWM Crew. <Greetings to you, Michelle here.> You guys/gals are really helpful. <We try.> I really enjoy visiting your website. <Thank you. It is good to hear. There is so much to learn, please keep reading!> I have set up my new reef tank (93 gallons) about seven weeks ago. My old tank was about 40 gallons. My old fishes are: one yellow tang (4.5"), one tomato clown 3.2"), one blue tang (7"), one powder blue tang (5.2"), one flame angel (3.2"), one threadfin butterfly (4")- all have been with me for 4 years+. <Yipe! Yipe! Yipe! Way overcrowded! Three good sized tangs in a 40 gallon tank! It's almost like raising veal!> In my new tank, <A tank twice times the size would make your three tangs much happier and be a more appropriate home for them.> I have about 70 lbs live rocks and most of them are new (and will add more). I started adding my old fishes one by one to the new tank from the fourth week after I had added a new pair of small false percula clowns, one bubble tip anemone and one hammer stony coral in the third week. I understand that it is already too crowded not to mention that I added three skunk cleaners and one fire shrimp about two weeks ago. So far the water quality seems good (e.g. zero reading on ammonia/NO2 and nitrate <5mg, PH about 8.2, temp 80F). My mistake was I didn't quarantine the live rocks. <Extended quarantining of all new arrivals is the best policy.> I just rinsed them and put them in the new tank. Now my new tank is infested with ick. <Quarantining the live rock would have been smart. But is not likely to be the causative agent here.> Not surprisingly, my powder blue tang first got hit and then my blue tang. The rest seem not to be infested yet. The tomato and the pair of percula clowns host with bubble tip and hammer respectively. My blue tang seems pair up with the fire shrimp and looks a lot better now while others except the clown fishes visit the skunk cleaners regularly. All fishes eat well. Even the powder blue is still eating like a pig. I feed them with frozen mysis shrimp, pallet food soaked with vitamins and garlic oil, and dry Nori. <Good.> Though I have a new hospital tank set up, I don't want to put my powder blue in there yet. He is not getting worse and I am not sure if it will be doing any good to him by putting him in my new hospital tank. I perform about 20% water change with siphoning the bottom every other day. <Siphoning could help if it was a bare bottom without live rock. Not sure it will be of any help in your present setup.> Am I doing the right thing? <The ideal would be to allow the tank to go fallow (No fish present) for 4-6 weeks and treat the fish in a separate hospital tank.> My other question is about my yellow tang. I have kept him for more than five years and he didn't grow much. <Not surprising in such a severely undersized tank.> His broken dorsal fin has never grown back. <Likely related to environmental stress.> I am not sure how it was broken but it was used to grow back before. Is it because he is too old now? <Doubtful, I am aware of tangs kept in captivity that are 15-20 years old.> He looks ok though he lost his colour. The colour does seem to be bringing back a little after I put him in the new tank. <Frankly, it's surprising to me that you have been able to keep these fish alive for the length of time you stated in such a small system. Your new system is still quite undersized for the animals in your care. Please keep reading and learning, it will enrich you as person and improve the conditions of the creatures in your stead.> Thank you very much for your kind help. Eric

A new tank with ick 11/21/06 Hi, Michelle. Thank you very much for your prompt reply. It was also a surprise to me that I could keep three tangs in such a small system for that many years. I have to confess that I did not treat them particularly well. I just fed them pellet food daily and Nori occasionally. And I didn't perform enough water change so the nitrate was always on the high side. That was why my yellow tang discolored. I hope my new set up (e.g. 93 gallons, 30 gallon sump, metal halide lighting, protein skimmer...most importantly my commitment on keeping them healthy) will make up for my past years' maltreatment to them. An update on my new tank: - I raised the temp a little bit last night and observed their behavior closely today. My blue tang is back in shape with my scarlet shrimp's persistent help. It is quite funny that the scarlet seems only interested in cleaning up the blue tang and very occasionally the powder blue and never treat others even they are begging for its help. - My powder blue is not getting worse though still a bit patchy. He is fat and still eating like a pig and come to my skunk cleaners for clean up very regularly. I understand this is not an easy to keep species. I am just so lucky to have him!! - My tomato and new pair of percula clowns are doing well with their host. - My butterfly is ok though occasionally chased by my tomato. I think my tomato is just warning him without the real intention of hurting him whilst he has bitten my fingers many times. After all, they have been tank mates for 4 years. - My flame angel and yellow tang are getting better with their coloration. - All shrimps are doing well. - The color of my coralline algae on the live rocks is fading. The readings: Cal- 440, alkalinity- 12. Will it be due to too much lighting? <No> I have the MH lighting for 6 hours and dim lighting for another 6 hours a day. Keep up the good work and have a nice day! Thank you eric ho <Eric, Thank you for the follow up. Keep striving to improve the lives of those in your care. Mich>

Re: A new tank with ick 11/24/06 Hi Michelle (or whoever reading this post) <Hi Eric, Mich here.> A further update on my new tank: 1. This morning I found one of my false percula clowns was being consumed by an unknown crab which came with the live rocks. Please see the attached pic. 2:00 am in the middle of last night, I found him/her sleeping with his/her mate on the hammer soft coral. He/She had been doing well since he/she was introduced to my new tank 4 weeks ago. I believe that it was killed by the crab since it was being eaten inside a live rock which was way above the bottom. I don't think it was killed by any diseases or other fishes all of a sudden inside this live rock. My heart was totally shattered by this!!! It is not a matter of money (It costs only less than US$3 here in Hong Kong.) Can you please tell me what species this crab is? <Eric, I'm so sorry for your loss. It is difficult when you loose a little friend that has been in your care. Yes, the crab may have been the culprit. In general crabs, are opportunistic omnivores. Unfortunately, I cannot ID the crab by the photo. I would recommend removing from the main tank and placing the crab in a sump if you have one.> 2. I finally put my powder blue tang which is infested with ick in a separate tank. I added Sera's Costapur trying to cure him. Have you heard of this product? Is it good? It contains 0.18g malachite green oxalate, 5.95 formaldehyde solution, 100ml aqua purificata ad. I follow its instruction. Now it is the third day of treatment, so far so good. <Would not be my treatment of choice. I would not use formaldehyde outside of a fume hood, let alone in my home. Please see the MSDS sheet here. http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/F5522.htm I would recommend either treating with copper while using an appropriate copper testing kit or hyposalinity please see here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichart2mar.htm http://www.wetwebmedia.com/QuarMarFishes.htm Please get into the habit of reading before acting. I think you will save time and money by doing your research first. Thank you. <You're very welcome> eric ho

Ich emergency... ignorance, poor advice and the price of procrastination 11/15/06 Thank you for your time. I have been reading for days on your site to find some definitive answers, however everything says set up a QT tank and go from there. <Mmm... no... not everything... there are several pages of articles and FAQs files on actual treatment for Cryptocaryon infestations...> Hence lies my problem. I have a VERY establish 240 gallon reef tank with many, many corals of various types with a few hundred pounds of live rock with all of your typical hermit crabs, snails, etc. I can't catch most of the fish!! <... if you intend to treat these fishes (and you very likely should), you should bite the proverbial bullet and drain, dismantle the tank...> I have two people hanging over the tanks with nets and basically we are doing nothing but destroying the corals trying to catch everything. <See the above...> I have been able to catch the powder brown tang, who shows the most signs of ich, he his actually completely covered. However, most of the other fish, only have a few spots, if any that I can see. <Appearances are not indicative...> The local LFS told me to use Ich attack. <Worthless... worse than worthless... folks actually believe this genre of phony medicant actually does some good> He said it won't cure the fish, but it will make the parasites fall off and then my UV sterilizer will kill most of the rest. <... no> I also have some cleaner shrimp that my purple tang utilizes everyday. I have been adding garlic and vita-Kem to their food. <Good> Since I cant catch the fish, are the fish doomed, or is their something else I can do. <You might be able to strike a sort of balance here... Again, covered over and over on WWM> Some say lowering the salinity, then others say this will kill my corals and inverts. <Too likely so> Will adding cleaner, neon gobies, help. All of the fish are eating well, swimming well, just a few spots of ich on them. The powder brown which was covered, is in the qt tank. The LFS tells me to relax, it will not kill the fish, I just need to manage it. However after reading your site, I'm not so sure. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Brian F <... please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm and the linked files above... for as long as it takes for you to realize your situation, options here. Bob Fenner> Marine Ich... - 11/11/06 Hi Guys Hope everything is great there. Sorry to disturb you guys with a bad news again. <No worries... well... some> I am experiencing Marine Ich over and over again. <Deja pooh!> About 2 months ago I found out that there was marine ich in my tank so I took out my fish and left my invertebrates -- a bubble tip anemone, urchin and 3 dancing shrimps. I kept them because I heard they are not vectors/hosts of this disease and its okay to keep them. <Yes, this is so> Then I ran my tank without fish for a month. Meanwhile I quarantined 2 newly bought Bannerfish and 2 newly bought purple firefish <Mich says, "Why buy new fish, when you're having a parasite problem?"> for 1 Â½ weeks. <Ohh, not long enough> After all that work my two banners are showing signs all over their bodies. Am I doing something wrong here? <Mmm, a couple of obvious "things"... need another couple weeks for allowing the main system to run fallow/w/o fish hosts, the new fish at this time, too short quarantine> Tomorrow I am removing my fish from the tank and keeping my invertebrates and I am hoping to run again for a month <Make that six weeks> without fish. Do you have any good tip or advices for my second attempt? Also I should mention that I use natural seawater but I keep it for a month before I put it my tank to replace 20% of water. Do you think this is a cause? <No... highly unlikely> Is it true that malachite green is safe to use with invertebrates to fight against ich. <No, definitely not> It is mentioned on http://www.pets-warehouse.com/marinefishdisease.htm under treatment for Ich -- first article. <Yeah... no. Toxic> As mentioned above I have a small bubble tip anemone and 3 dancing shrimps. About a week ago one of my dancing shrimps went missing. Is it possible that my anemone ate it? <Sure> This particular anemone is small but can it consume a dancing shrimp? <How do say "you betcha" in Hindi?> Thanks in advance for any advices. Best regards, Rachel <You too my friend. Bob Fenner> Powder Blue Tang, Ich 11/8/06 I have a 155 reef with 13 fish, and assorted corals and inverts, all levels great, but while out of town for 3 days (fish watched by LFS owner) my powder blue has a light (for the time being) case of ich. I have not added anything for over a year, so my QT is gone. My other fish seem unaffected, the tang has had it for 4 days, I have been adding garlic to the food, but he isn't getting better or worse. Will kick ich help the tang, or will it prevent only further spread. And do I do freshwater dips, or would it be useless without a QT. < If you can catch the tang without inducing a lot of stress then it can help. > He is still acting normal and eating great, but I want to do whatever I can. < This is one of those watch and see situations. I would suggest getting that QT up and running ASAP. If you can maintain optimal water conditions you may keep your fish healthy enough to fight off a minor outbreak, but prepare for trouble. Moving all fish to QT at the first sign of ich spreading may be your best bet. > Thanks, < You're welcome, and hope everything works out for you - Emerson > Denise

Ich in main tank 11/8/06 Hi WetWebMedia Crew I think my main tank has been infected with ich even after quarantine of fish. <Does occur...> If you think it is something else please advise. Three out of four of my fish have ich I believe. They are not scratching but have white spots all over them which look like definite ick. If you think this is not ich How long should I wait to see if it is something else? <A very good question... in that it challenges my meager intellect and capacity for response... Mmm, let's see: "Not too long?"... this is to state that if indeed this is or may be a real protozoan infestation... too long may be... too long to wait... But a variable guess/quanta, variables> All fish are eating good. <And well I take it> Since 3 out of 4 of my fish are showing signs of ich can I just treat the main tank? The fish are a Centropyge eibli, a Amphiprion ocellaris, a Pseudochromis fridmani, and a Gobiodon okinawae. In this case what should I treat my tank with? <Mmm, not... not the whole/main tank period... See WWM re...> I have 4 crabs, and two turbo snails should I move those my quarantine tank which is 10 gallons while I treat the tank. Thanks for your reply <Will have to move, separate the fishes, non-fishes... again... Please read on WWM. Bob Fenner> Ich issues 11/7/06 Hello, thank you for all of your informative postings. < Greetings, we do all we can to help. Emerson with you today. > I have a 125 gal tank with a wet/dry trickle filter, Coralife protein skimmer, 36W UV sterilizer, Fluval 405 canister filter, alternating powerheads, 80lbs of live sand and 80lbs of live rock, tank has been established for just over 7 months. < Given the tank description and fish listed below I would reckon you could remove the nitrate factory trickle filter as long as you have a good water change/cleaning regimen and skimmer. Make sure and clean out that canister filter often. > In the tank I have a large volitans lion and I recently added a blue hippo tang after a 3 week quarantine (29gal) in copper, during quarantine the tang showed no spots at all. < Did the tang show signs of ich before being placed in QT? If not then quarantining in copper would only stress the fish unduly. If there were signs of disease then a 3-4 week post treatment period in QT would be a good idea to make sure signs if disease did not come back. > One week after being introduced into the main tank, the tang showed the first few grains of salt. A few days later he was fully peppered. I was not shocked about this as my research prior to getting this fish suggested that these fish are ich magnets. After talking to a few people I decided to leave the tang in the tank, lower the salinity to .019 and supplement both fish with food soaked in garlic. About 5 days later the lion then started to also show signs of ich (salt grains, swimming in current). I am worried that the ich problem is getting out of control but I think if I tired to dig the tang out of the tank (lots of branched live rock) it would stress him worse than the parasites. < There are ways to catch you fish while keeping stress levels to a minimum. > Both fish appear healthy, swimming normally, eating very well. Will this condition clear up with my current strategies, < Not likely > or do I need to bite the bullet and try to dig the tang out of the tank? Will the lion cure himself more easily as he can shed his skin? < Moving both fish to QT, treating them with appropriate measures and leaving the 125g fallow for 8 weeks is your best bet. Your 125 has a healthy colony of (most likely) ich that needs to be deprived of fish hosts. Please check out the Disease FAQs on WWM for specifics. > Thanks, Dave < Most welcome and best of luck. > Help with QT tank 10/29/06 I have an outbreak of Ich in my 75 gallon tank. I have a 30 gallon tank I can use as a QT. Only 2 fish have spots, it is better if all are treated?<yes, you can find all this information on the website> Treatment being with formalin and Qt for 4-8 weeks? Leaving the main tank "fallow" 4-8 weeks to rid the parasite, will it "Ich" affect the inverts, LR, LS, and anemones? <ich does not affect inverts, also treat with a copper sulfate compound, formalin is generally not too effective with the treatment of ich and it is harmful to the livestock> For filtration you recommend a sponge filter, which I have ordered but has not been in my main filtration to seed. Can I use a HOT and put some of the ceramic rings in the charcoal chamber? And use the main tank water to fill the 30 gallon since the water will be treated anyway?<the water is not what holds the de-nitrifying bacteria that you need to break down waste> Any suggestions on how to keep the ammonia down?<water changes, and ammonia detox> Once treatment is done, do I have to drip the fish to move them back to the main tank? My livestock will benefit from your help and website. Thanks <spend a few hours reading about ich on the website...hundreds/thousands of people as the same questions as you and everything is answered in the FAQ's! good luck my friend, IanB> Latent ich and fallow tanks 10/26/06 I have a 180g FOWLR tank, 75gallon sump (~1/3 full) and a 150g refugium and noticed that my porcupine puffer has contracted what appears to be ich. I have quarantined him for about a month and the spots seemed to go away but as soon as I put him back in the main tank the spots reappear. None of the other fish (niger trigger, clown fish, lionfish, domino damsel, sergeant major, yellow tail damsels, yellow Chromis, snowflake eel) are showing any signs of the infestation. < Been there, done that. You likely have a sustained colony of ich in your 180. The fish not displaying symptoms have probably built up enough immunity to do ok for the time being. > I also have some turbo snails, hermit crabs, and a Condy anemone in my tank. Is it possible that the infestation, if that is what it is, is lying dormant in my main tank until the puffer comes back or that there is another issue. < The former and not the latter. > I'm confused as I said due to the lack of infestation of any of my other fish. Is it possible I will need to treat my main tank, if so what should I use and how should it be administered? < With the inverts you listed the only option available for the 180 is to run it fallow for at least 6-8 weeks. Please research WWM for info on the 'reef-safe' treatments you may be considering. > Currently I've used malachite green in the quarantine tank on the puffer. Is there anything that I can put in my main system to treat everything that is safe or is there another approach you would recommend? < The best approach you could take would be to quarantine all fish and treat for ich while leaving the 180 fallow (fishless) for a 6-8 week period. You could also trade your puffer into your LFS, but then you still have ich in the 180 waiting for your other fish to be stressed by some unexpected event. Any treatment done to the 180 will likely stress or kill your inverts. It sounds like a royal pain, and I will admit it's not fun. I had to quarantine all the fish in my 215g a couple of years ago do to a latent ich infestation that didn't show itself until a heater stopped working. This really is the best way to minimize the ich population in the main tank and treat and strengthen your fish in quarantine. > D'Wayne < Best of luck from someone who has been in your situation and met with success -- Emerson. > Re: Latent ich and fallow tanks - 10/25/06 Thanks for the info...a few more questions: << No problem, ask away! >> - as far as quarantining them can I purchase a 50g or so Rubbermaid container and put them in that? << That would be great. Just make sure its a food safe container like the "Brute" Rubbermaid products. If you could separate the puffer from your other fish it would help as well. >> - should the water that goes in the quarantine tub be from my display tank or fresh or a combination? << You can fill it with display water the first time, but water changes should be done with freshly made water. >> - will my skimmer need to be moved to service the quarantine tank? << Not with a good water change regimen, and skimmers are not recommended with certain medications. >> - what kind of maintenance will be required on the quarantine tank in the interim (water changes etc?) << For the most part this will be determined by what kind of biofiltration you have for the QT and what medications you use. If you have a form of filtration you can add to the QT like a power or sponge filter, it would help a lot. If not you're going to need one and seed it with starter bacteria and check for ammonia often. You can probably find the starter bacteria at your LFS. Some medications recommend a water change regimen as well so follow their instructions. Other than these two guidelines you can do 25-50% changes once to a few times a week. When ever I am treating for disease in QT I err on the side of caution with 25% daily or 50% every other day. >> - is minimum lighting sufficient for over the quarantine tank? << No lighting is needed. Ambient room lighting is sufficient for your fish. It would be a good idea to place some pvc pipes, elbows etc for your fish to hide in. >> - I'm assuming circulation/lighting/temperature should remain the same in my main tank to sustain the inverts? << Correct. If you had no inverts you could crank the temp up a few degrees to hasten the life cycle of the ich, but best to leave it alone in your case. >> Thanks again, << You're welcome and best of luck - Emerson >> D'Wayne

Crypt 10/24/06 I'm about at my wits end with this problem. <Can be extremely trying> I've read almost everything on the web (including your web site) and in books about the disease and its treatment and have followed some of the described treatments (copper, hyposalinity, fallow tank, etc) but it keeps coming back. <Not gone in the first place...> Below I'll describe what I've done and maybe you can spot something I've missed. <Okay> I should note that I religiously check and keep my water parameters within guidelines and as stable as possible. <And you're going to adopt strict quarantine practice> I also do at least one water change a week. Thanks in advance for your assistance By way of background: The first time I had Ich in my 120 gallon Reef tank was 4 months ago (hippo tang 1st, then a Purple tang, followed by a Foxface & a copper banded Butterfly. On advise <advice> from my LFS, I tried a "Reef Safe" treatment <There are no such remedies that are effective. Period> which, after multiple tries, did nothing to cure or even alleviate the problem. During this iterative process, I installed a UV system in hopes of further aiding in the treatment - no luck there either. I then broke down the tank, removing all fish to my LFS & a hospital tank. After reading everything published on the Web and in 4 or 5 books, I elected to put copper (.15) <This concentration in ppm is on the lowest end of the range of efficacy> in the hospital tank (the LFS's tank had copper as well) <The majority of LFSs likely maintain some copper level in their fish holding systems> and then left only corals, shrimp & crab in the 120 tank for 35 days. Additionally, I did three 20 gallon water changes (more to get any residual of the "Reef Safe" medication out of the tank than any thought of removing any of the Ich parasites) <No need> After the 35 day fallow period, I began reintroducing fish into the tank at a controlled rate 3-5 a week (just from my hospital & the LFS tanks). <.... no quarantine?...> 2-3 weeks into this process Ich symptoms began reappearing, first on a Heniochus, next a Foxface, then a goby and then a flame angel and two Gudgeon. At this point, my LFS Owner suggested that I "start over": Get rid of my sand, rock & water (120 tank and sump). <Poor advice... not necessary or useful in the least here> This I did, and again send several of the remaining fish to either my hospital tank or the LFS. I then bought new sand & rock and restarted my tank from scratch. I put back the coral, shrimp, crab & anemone and left it fallow for 2 plus weeks. During that 2 week period, all of the fish at the LFS were in copper and were looking pretty good as were the fish in hypo-salinity (1.018) in my hospital tank. For the last 7-8 days in my hospital tank I put in copper (.15). Current Scenario: After that period (3 weeks+/-) I reintroduced the 7 fish from my hospital tank back into the restarted 120 gallon reef tank and left them for 7 days. Nobody showed any signs of Ich up to that point. Next I put a velvet wrasse and an Eiblii Angel from the LFS's copper tank in my Hospital tank (now a quarantine tank with no copper and normal salinity) <Yay!> and left them there for 4 days (4 days because they'd been in copper at the LFS for 10 days +/- prior to being moved to my tank). After I moved them to the large tank at the end of the 4 days, I added no fish for 5 or 6 days I then added 4 tangs <What species? A 120 gallon volume isn't enough for a mix of most> (mine) from the LFS's copper tank back into my 120 gallon tank. Two of the tangs (Purple and Chevron) had been in the LFS copper tank ever since the end of the first break-out (2+ months), the mimic had been in the LFS for 3 weeks in another tank with copper in it and the sailfin had been in the LFS, in copper, for 2 + weeks. That was twelve days ago. Two days ago I noted 4 Ich spots on my Purple Tang and yesterday that was up to about 20 and there were 6 on my Foxface. The only suggestions, other than posting this plea was to make sure that I soak the fish's food in Garlic <Not generally efficacious...> (which I have always done - since day one of my having fish) and add Coral Vital <Worthless> (1 capful per 10 gallons) every day. Can anyone offer any advice on additional step I might take (other than give up on the hobby). Your thoughts and feedback will be greatly appreciated Regards Teri <Am out of the country on a very poor connection, but strongly encourage you to (re)peruse all the Articles and as much of the FAQs files on Cryptocaryon archived on WWM (see the indices, search tool)... I would NOT "trust" anyone but yourself to quarantine and treat your livestock... I WOULD have a higher titer of free cupric ion present at all times during treatment... as much as 0.35 ppm. Bob Fenner>

Medicated Food 10/23/06 Hi, <Hi> Do you have any experience with medicated food for prevention of ich on fish? <Of limited usefulness.> In particular, Blue lagoon Premium Medicated food. From the collective knowledge out there, I should put my fish in the QT, treat them, wait 6 weeks and then return to the main tank. <Yep> Would medicated food be able to eradicate ich by preventing ich from attaching to fish and thereby the ich dying off over a 6 week period as they the ich do not have a chance to complete their life-cycle? <Not really how it works, the Ich would have to attach to be effected by the medication within the fish.> I am leaning toward the QT, but will need to buy a larger QT as the 10g will not hold 8 fish (two tangs, etc.) for the six week period. <Best way to go.> Thanks. NR <Chris>

Ich problem? - 10/22/06 Hi crew, < Greetings, Emerson with you today. > I've obtained a lot of useful info on your site about marine ich and I would like to thank you guys. I understand that every ich problem might be different so I would like to run mine by you. I have a 55 gallon fish only tank with two juveniles. 3" emperor angel and 2.5" clown trigger. < Yipes! I hope you're saving up for the 300 gallon tank the fish will need. > It started 2 month ago. A cluster of white spots appeared on the dorsal fins of the trigger. So I perform a water change and hook up a UV sterilizer does it actually work against ich?) FÃ¶r 2 month I did the weekly 10% water change without any additional medications, the white spots didn't go away. As for the angel, from time to time, I do see white spots on it's body in the morning and they are usually gone by mid afternoon. but I see the angel scratching itself. Both fish eats aggressively. This morning, I found the trigger looking a lot worse with some white clusters and mucus on it's body and eyes. It is still eating aggressively though. My question is if I should apply treatments or the fish with fight off the ich with the help of the UV? < All the fish in this system need to be treated in quarantine if possible. UV will not cure your fish for certain. The 55 needs to remain fallow for at least 6-8 weeks before reintroduction of the cured fish. Method of treatment should be determined after researching what is safest for your fish. > Thanks again for your help. < Very welcome, and best of luck. > Kwon

Green Chromis = Typhoid Mary 10/17/06 Dear WWM crew, <Hi> I have finally come to the realization that my 90 gallon reef tank is infected with Ick (yes, due to lack of quarantine). <Lesson learned.> The only fish I have right now is a green Chromis that never showed obvious signs of Ick. <Still infected.> I am in the process of treating him with Cupramine for 7 days in a 10 gallon hospital tank. <Good> After this period I was thinking of placing this fish in my 29 gallon quarantine tank. <Ok> In time I plan on stocking my display tank with a Yellow Tang and a Flame Angel. I thought I could add one fish at a time (1 month each) to the quarantine tank with the Chromis still in it. <Wouldn't, adds too many variables and risks the health of both fish.> My line of reasoning is: 1) To keep the quarantine tank cycled with the Chromis. <Better to do with filter media moved from a healthy main tank to the QT when needed.> 2) To use the Chromis as a dither fish. <Will not be helpful.> 3) To help me determine if I was able to cure the Chromis of Ick. <Don't move it for 4 to 6 weeks after the copper treatment, if it does not show signs of ich by then it should be clean.> After the last fish is added the could the Chromis go back in the display tank? Or is it too risky to add 'Typhoid Mary' back into the display tank? <Not risky adding it back, but not a good idea to expose it to other unquarantined fish.> Thanks, Mark <Chris>

Crypt - 10/22/2006 I'm about at my wits end with this problem. <Can be extremely trying> I've read almost everything on the web (including your web site) and in books about the disease and its treatment and have followed some of the described treatments (copper, hyposalinity, fallow tank, etc) but it keeps coming back. <Not gone in the first place...> Below I'll describe what I've done and maybe you can spot something I've missed. <Okay> I should note that I religiously check and keep my water parameters within guidelines and as stable as possible. <And you're going to adopt strict quarantine practice> I also do at least one water change a week. Thanks in advance for your assistance By way of background: The first time I had Ich in my 120 gallon Reef tank was 4 months ago (hippo tang 1st, then a Purple tang, followed by a Foxface & a copper banded Butterfly. On advise <advice> from my LFS, I tried a "Reef Safe" treatment <There are no such remedies that are effective. Period> which, after multiple tries, did nothing to cure or even alleviate the problem. During this iterative process, I installed a UV system in hopes of further aiding in the treatment - no luck there either. I then broke down the tank, removing all fish to my LFS & a hospital tank. After reading everything published on the Web and in 4 or 5 books, I elected to put copper (.15) <This concentration in ppm is on the lowest end of the range of efficacy> in the hospital tank (the LFS's tank had copper as well) <The majority of LFSs likely maintain some copper level in their fish holding systems> and then left only corals, shrimp & crab in the 120 tank for 35 days. Additionally, I did three 20 gallon water changes (more to get any residual of the "Reef Safe" medication out of the tank than any thought of removing any of the Ich parasites) <No need> After the 35 day fallow period, I began reintroducing fish into the tank at a controlled rate 3-5 a week (just from my hospital & the LFS tanks). <.... no quarantine?...> 2-3 weeks into this process Ich symptoms began reappearing, first on a Heniochus, next a Foxface, then a goby and then a flame angel and two Gudgeon. At this point, my LFS Owner suggested that I "start over": Get rid of my sand, rock & water (120 tank and sump). <Poor advice... not necessary or useful in the least here> This I did, and again send several of the remaining fish to either my hospital tank or the LFS. I then bought new sand & rock and restarted my tank from scratch. I put back the coral, shrimp, crab & anemone and left it fallow for 2 plus weeks. During that 2 week period, all of the fish at the LFS were in copper and were looking pretty good as were the fish in hypo-salinity (1.018) in my hospital tank. For the last 7-8 days in my hospital tank I put in copper (.15). Current Scenario: After that period (3 weeks+/-) I reintroduced the 7 fish from my hospital tank back into the restarted 120 gallon reef tank and left them for 7 days. Nobody showed any signs of Ich up to that point. Next I put a velvet wrasse and an Eibli Angel from the LFS's copper tank in my Hospital tank (now a quarantine tank with no copper and normal salinity) <Yay!> and left them there for 4 days (4 days because they'd been in copper at the LFS for 10 days +/- prior to being moved to my tank). After I moved them to the large tank at the end of the 4 days, I added no fish for 5 or 6 days I then added 4 tangs <What species? A 120 gallon volume isn't enough for a mix of most> (mine) from the LFS's copper tank back into my 120 gallon tank. Two of the tangs (Purple and Chevron) had been in the LFS copper tank ever since the end of the first break-out (2+ months), the mimic had been in the LFS for 3 weeks in another tank with copper in it and the sailfin had been in the LFS, in copper, for 2 + weeks. That was twelve days ago. Two days ago I noted 4 Ich spots on my Purple Tang and yesterday that was up to about 20 and there were 6 on my Foxface. The only suggestions, other than posting this plea was to make sure that I soak the fish's food in Garlic <Not generally efficacious...> (which I have always done - since day one of my having fish) and add Coral Vital <Worthless> (1 capful per 10 gallons) every day. Can anyone offer any advice on additional step I might take (other than give up on the hobby). Your thoughts and feedback will be greatly appreciated. Regards, Teri <Am out of the country on a very poor connection, but strongly encourage you to (re)peruse all the Articles and as much of the FAQs files on Cryptocaryon archived on WWM (see the indices, search tool)... I would NOT "trust" anyone but yourself to quarantine and treat your livestock... I WOULD have a higher titer of free cupric ion present at all times during treatment... as much as 0.35 ppm. Bob Fenner>

Marine Ich 10/10/06 Hi crew I was hoping you might be able to help me out. I have a 7ft by 2ft by 2ft reef tank set up. Everything was going great test my water weekly everything spot on. My problem is my first encounter with white spot. <QTing?> My inhabitants are 2 hippo tangs, yellow tang, powder blue tang, lipstick tang, orange shoulder tang, 2 pink spot gobies, flame angel, banana wrasse, a hammer coral and an elegance coral. <That seems like a lot of fish.> Should I remove the two corals to a separate tank and treat all the fish in the main tank which wouldn't be hard or do I have to remove all the fish to another tank and treat them there which would be a nightmare, because I would have to take out all the live rock to catch the fish and then I would have a lot of fish that exist quite happily together in the large aquarium all trying to exist in a smaller tank and I also don't know what to do with the gobies if I were to put them in a tank with out sand. If I am able to treat the fish in the main tank would you also be able to recommend a product to treat the fish with. Sorry for such a long email thanks in advance. <All fish need to be removed to a bare hospital tank. Not sand or live rock, which will absorb any medication you use. If you treat the main tank with an effective medication (copper) you can kiss you LR goodbye and will probably never be able to add any corals or invertebrates in the future. Please read http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm for more.> <Chris>

Re: Marine Ich 10/15/06 Hi thanks for your reply. <Sure> I have now moved all fish to a hospital tank and treated with Cupramine. All the fish seem fine except the two pink spot gobies. One in particular was very distressed swimming very close to the surface like he was gasping for air. I did some further research on your web site and read that gobies basically don't like copper. I wish you'd mentioned this in the first email. <Wish you would have read more before treating.> Anyway I have now moved the gobies into a second hospital tank but am now unsure as to how to treat them for itch. I cannot see any cysts on the gobies like the other fish had but they were flicking themselves on the rocks and sand when they were in the main tank so I presume they are infected. Your help would be much appreciated. Thanks <Several options are available. Details are all available on WetWebMedia.> <Chris>

Treating a Powder Brown Tang (A. nigricans) with Crypt. 9/27/06 Hello Crew, First let me tell you what a great service your website is to those of us who love the hobby. It is simply the most accurate source of information I've found. It has really helped me make better decisions at the LFS, separating truth from fiction. <Ah, good> I'm treating a powder brown (A. nigricans) for crypt that was in a 120 gal reef tank. The tank is located at a business and is "taken care of" by a local service. I have salt tanks at home and have seen/treated crypt before but never on such a delicate species as a powder brown. I was the first to notice the fish had a slight case and suggested to the service that they remove all the fish and treat in a separate tank. They obviously didn't QT the tang before they brought it to us. We'll they didn't listen and went to dipping and then to Kick Ich and......you know the rest. <Oh yes> Yes they put Kick-Ich in the main tank, soft corals, inverts, and all. I have nothing good to say about Kick-Ich. I fell pray to it a long time ago. It's worthless. <We are in agreement. Perhaps worse than worthless... as folks actually believe they're doing something of use> I do not have experience with this species. I've now educated myself about the powder brown on your site and realize I may not win this battle, but I have to try. I brought my 10 gal H.T. in from home and set it up in my office. I removed a small power filter I run on my 55 at home just for this purpose. The fish had a fairly severe case when the "fish service" finally cried uncle and let me try 3 weeks later. I'm at day 5 of a 14 day copper treatment (Mardel, Copper Safe) and the fish is doing very well now. I've got it eating dried seaweed, it won't take dried foods and I haven't tried frozen yet. <Very likely it won't feed till the copper treatment ceases> Spots are gone, I'm doing daily 4 gal water changes using water from my 55 gal at home in attempt to seed the tank. Copper is probably killing bacteria as quickly as I put it in. <Likely so> I am fighting ammonia; it's at a steady 0.5 ppm as long as I continue water changes, which was predictable. Nitrite is 0, which may change next week. Salinity is at 1.023. that's where I keep my tanks. I am testing for Copper and levels are where they're supposed to be. Here are my questions: Assuming I can keep this delicate fish alive through the copper treatment, should I return the fish to the main display after two weeks or try to get the 10 gal to cycle and keep the tang out of the "infested tank" for a full 30 days? <The latter... the main tank has been left sans fish hosts? Or "nuked" as in bleached?> I say "infested" because none of the other fish are showing signs of crypt. <It's there> I understand there is a potential for the fish to become infested again <Almost a surety> I just don't know if the extra time out of the tank really means anything since we didn't let the system go fallow. <A mistake> I'm conflicted between stressing the fish by keeping it in the 10 gal longer than required and potentially re-infesting it in the main tank. How much stress am I putting the tang through keeping it in such a small tank? <A bunch> I realize they like large spaces! Do you see any thing wrong with my treatment method? Thanks for a wonderful site! Mark Gustin <Mmm, nothing per se... but the "whole picture" is incomplete w/o the "treatment" of the main display... Bob Fenner> Re: Treating a Powder Brown Tang (A. nigricans) with Crypt. 9/27/06 Bob, <Mark...> Thanks for your response. I know it's a mistake to not let the main system go fallow. I couldn't get them (the "service") to pull all the fish from the display. They won't listen to me. They're the experts you see! Since I'm not the owner of the tank I couldn't force the issue although I tried. I thought it would be better to try to get the tang healthy again than to just let it die, which was inevitable. I had to try something. <Mmm, Mark... you're on the edge of raising my blood pressure dangerously... I salute your efforts/intervention in trying to cure this fish, re/solve the overall situation, but don't give a damn re who "owns" the rights to do/not do whatever here. SomeONE must come forward and seize responsibility... I call on you to be that person, really. Am only interested in facts, not who did or did not do what here, anywhere... Show the "service company" our site... I worked in this aspect of the trade for nineteen years... > I don't have a big enough H.T. (only 10 gal) to house all of the fish in the 120 gal display or I would have. I normally use my 10 gal only as a quarantine tank. <Who owns this livestock? It will be lost, the tank remain infested if no action is taken. You understand this... make them understand it as well> I really have no choice but to put the tang back in the display (it's not my fish) and cross my fingers it doesn't get re-infested. <...> Frustrating! I know the odds are not in favor of this. Knowing that the main system will always have some level of the parasite in it, will keeping the tang out of the main system for the full 30 days decrease the chance of re-infestation? <Very marginally> This assumes none of the other fish becomes infested in the next 25 days! <They are my friend... just "sub-clinically"> One thing that the "expert" brought up was that the soft corals will help reduce the numbers of the parasite. <... no> Is this true to any extent? Nothing else this guy says has been correct so I'm not holding my breath! Maybe I'll gain a little credibility with the "service" and they'll at least entertain the concept of quarantine. <Did this myself for many years... only route to go is to provide as clean livestock as you can...> These guys make pretty good money for stocking and maintaining tanks. I'd think that they would take as many precautions as possible to keep parasites from entering systems they're responsible for. I'm dreaming... I know Thanks again. Mark Gustin <Please put them in contact with me. Bob Fenner>

Re: Treating a Powder Brown Tang (A. nigricans) with Crypt. 9/27/06 Bob, I'll do my best. I've already forwarded your responses. Don't hold your breath. <Sometimes...> I get upset at ignorance too! The problem here is we have someone who loves the fish tank but isn't interested in learning about the creatures in it. I have to be careful here. His secretary feeds them! He can afford to have it...likes it...and can afford to pay someone to set it up and care for it. <Is this then the/an end-all rationale in the West?> When fish get sick it just becomes a decision of economics. If it costs more to treat it than to kill it and replace it...guess what the decision is? That's the attitude of the tank owner...not the service. It boils down to money because there's no respect for the creatures themselves. This tang would have ended up in the garbage can if I hadn't pulled it out! <My friend... there are many "things" contained w/in a relationship that make it "work"... concurrent goals, projects, paths... BUT most importantly values... I call on you... to testify, witness on your own behalf whether you can... in good faith... "work" with this outfit, person> I'd just take it home if I had a large enough tank to keep it. Unfortunately...I don't. I could house it for a short time in a 29 I have but my 55 is fully stocked and would not support the addition of this aggressive fish. We'll figure something out! Mark Gustin <Yes... we both will indeed. BobF> Re: Treating a Powder Brown Tang (A. nigricans) with Crypt. 9/27/06 I understand.... no this is not the prevailing rational in the west... just with some individuals. You have to pick your battles and there isn't anything that I'm going to say that's going to change him. <Just be yourself> I don't/won't work for him or with him...just in the same building. Since I love the tank I occasionally stop by to see it...and dream of someday having one like it. The Friday before Labor Day I noticed the Ich and e-mailed the owner a proper course of action...and you know the rest. <Ahhh> I may have some luck with the guy who services the tank. He is a fellow diver and obviously respects the creatures. He may never admit I was right but may react differently in the future just for me having said something to him. I don't think he's a bad guy... just misinformed about dealing with Ich, and since he's in a business relationship with the other... I've put him in an awkward position. I think he truly believes I'm going to fail at this. I may....but for now the fish is doing remarkably well. I had to teach it how to eat the dried seaweed by sticking it to the filter intake. It was picking at the tube like they do so I stuck a piece on it the tang is now eating seaweed from a clip. If he makes it thru the copper treatment I may take him home and put him in my 29 temporarily. It beats trying to make this small tank cycle and wasting all the salt changing water everyday. One last question and I'll get out you're hair...you've got better things to do I'm sure. If I do convince them to pull the other fish out...should they be treated with copper even though they show no symptoms? <Yes> You say they are infested "sub-clinically". To treat or not is the question? <Treat> It seems that I've read in the FAQ's that it would be ok to put them in quarantine and observe while the display is left fallow for 30 days. If they then develop symptoms while in QT then treat. <May not exhibit symptoms, will be carriers...> Mark Gustin <Life to you my friend. BobF> Re: Treating a Powder Brown Tang (A. nigricans) with Crypt. 9/27/06 Good news! <Always welcome> The tank owner has informed the service that he wants the fish pulled and treated...will be meeting them tomorrow to discuss the situation. <Ah, good> Looks like we did it...all is going to work out! Thanks Bob! Mark Gustin <Thank you Mark. BobF> I have a huge Ich Problem, Scam remedies (Kick nothing), a lesson in knowing what one is doing, and realizing when not 9/15/06 Hello and greeting, <And to you> I was reading over your wonderful site and read all the valuable information re: ich. <A bunch!> Well this is my story, before I went on vacation for 8 days my tank was doing great, my setup includes a 125 gallon reef tank with live rock, live sand a 30 gallon sump, 1 regal angel, 1 achilles, <Both not easily kept> 1 hippo, 2 percula clowns, 4 Chromis and 2 shrimps and before I left everyone was doing fine, I have automatic top off and consistent calcium and alkalinity supplements. I had someone feed my tank while I was gone and their food was placed in cups so all they had to do was poor in the contents of the cups and just let it be. <Good technique> Well when I returned I noticed a huge ich outbreak on achilles to the point where his eyes were covered and could not see where and what he was swimming into, my angel was covered as well as my hippo, but no where as bad as the achilles. <Not unusual course here> As anyone would I panicked, and ran to my local fish store to see what could be done, the employee recommended to me kick ich <... worse than worthless. Actually leads one to believe they're doing good...> and since it was reef safe I figured what the heck, so I used it but to no avail. <Bingo...> Well needless to say he passed, then my angel was not doing so good so I did the next best thing which in my opinion I had no choice, was to buy a quarantine tank which I should have did since the inception <Double bingo> of my 125 but was stubborn to and would never make that mistake again, but doing so means that my emergency tank would not be established enough even with my current tank water, some sand from it and a piece of live rock, <... not able to be used with medications of use here> but it was worth a shot. So I set it up put the angel in there with copper treatment. He immediately responded to it started swimming around and the ich seemed to be gone that day which was a Sunday afternoon. <Seemed only...> When I returned later that night he was on his side again breathing very heavily, <Yep... next cycle...> I immediately changed some of the water out of my qt and replaced it with my 125 gallon water with half of the copper treatment, and this time there was no response. Well needless to say he tried his best to tough it out up until Monday afternoon he was still breathing but he was still laying on his side, and he passed later that afternoon. Now in my DT it is really hard to catch my hippo as he wedges himself in the rocks in my reef and the only way to take him out is remove all rocks and corals which would be extremely difficult, my question is to you what should I do? <Read where you've stated you had...> I ordered a UV and I should receive it by Friday <Won't cure... or stop the loss of your livestock here...> of this week, and my hippo isn't looking so hot, his skin looks like its shedding but his appetite is still the same and his swimming habits are too. I also ordered two neon gobies hoping that would help. I heard about hypo treatment but is that my last resort?? Please help Thank you <... Simple... you need to take the main tank down to capture all fishes, treat them in a chemically inert (as close to it... seawater itself reacts with copper...), and treat... Please do read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Re: I have a huge Ich Problem... and resistance to reading? 9/15/06 Thank you so much for the reply. I have a couple questions though before I go ahead and put all the fish in my qt. Being that the qt is only a week old how will I cycle it so that the fish will be ok in it? <... answered over and over on WWM> Also its a 10 gallon tank, will they be stressed being in such a small area especially the hippo? Thank you once again! <... read, don't write... and soon. BobF>

Ich already?? It's not even Thanksgiving! 9/15/06 Hi gang! Thanks for all you do. I was doing some research on the site and can't find an answer. My 180 gallon dream tank is up and running. I did it all correct and even spent extra on controllers. PH is rock solid and being controlled on PH controller and calcium reactor. Aqua Jr is controlling temp to 80 +or- .3 Tank cycled completely. All parameters are solid including an ORP of 380 (also on a controller) The fish were in Quarantine basically in 2 tanks (some in a bb 100gal stock tank with rock and some in a 30 gallon bare bottom with no rock (just some PVC and hiding spots) No one ever exhibited anything in the 3 weeks in waiting nor did they in their previous home before I tore it down. So in every body went and now 6 days later the small purple tang ( I have one large and one small) appears to have ich and the regal tang appears to have Popeye and slight ich. <Both species very crypt prone> All other 9 fish are fine. Can ich even grow that fast? <Can> How does it appear? <As stated on WWM... discrete "pimple" raised dots of about 1mm diameter... changed behavior in host fishes...> The water couldn't of contained it as it was fallow prior and I drip acclimated everyone in over 2 hours. The skimmer is being tuned in and I do have lots of micro bubbles as it gets in shape but I don' t think it is that. I know the treatment is take everyone out and hyposalinity with copper. I have 230 pounds of rock in there and I doubt I could even catch most of them. Do I have any options? <A few> I know you're not big on garlic but that is what all the local reef geek advice I'm getting in on the local forum. What type of garlic as it seems every one does it different. Can I use the juice from minced garlic? <Could... I wouldn't... unless making a pasta dish that someone might not be able to ingest bigger pieces of Allium sativum> I included pics to show if I'm positive on my identification. They are the best I can get. The fish are eating normally and behaving normally (no itching or being docile) I DO NOT want to tear this tank down. What happens to the cycle if left untreated? Can I do Hypo in the big tank for a time gradually bringing it down or is that certain death to the inverts? (crabs, snails and 1 shrimp) What happens if I just get the infected guys out and nobody exhibits ich after 5-6 weeks? I am just heartbroken here as I have done it all right I feel through research and I am confused on my options. Any help would be appreciated. <Mmm, if it were me, mine, I'd hold off... consider the possibility of a resident, sub-symptomatic infestation... The one pic of the Zebrasoma does look like Crypt, but could easily be "simple stress" markings from something... Do you have purposeful cleaner organisms? I would avail myself of these... and re-read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm and the linked files above.
Bob Fenner>

Re: Personifer Angel/Please Help... mixed Angels, Crypt likely - 09/14/06 Thank You very much just one more question please if you will I have a bunch of white little spots or dots (like) but they seem to move every now and then. <?> they are on the corner of the glass, my heart tells me that its a parasite but my fish all seem fine. <Not likely a parasite...> Please tell me what you think this is? <... Learn to/use the search tool... keep reading. Bob Fenner> I have just been having a little trouble...Thanks for your time. <No worries... but unless these small moving spots are parasitic isopods, copepods... (highly unlikely), they are not visible protozoans... Put another way, I would not be concerned here. Cheers, BobF>

fish <and English> problems - 09/13/06 hey- Bob big fan of site cant express how much help it has given. I've been in the hobby 3 years or so. Now I have 120 reef. My fish seemingly are always getting ich. There are 2 fish who always seem to get it and the others don't seem to. The 2 that get it are powder brown tang, and blue hippo. I know tangs get it easy but what am I doing wrong. no fish have been added and I haven't lost any. But they always seem to have a few spots here or there. Now the powder brown has is really bad but - doesn't act any different, eats fine and doesn't flash or anything. So I'm baffled. It starts out really mild one or two spots and then something happens like I have to clean the tank the he gets a little stressed and gets a few more for a few days. Then after that goes back to only a few. I just got back from vacation and now he has it very bad. but no change in the way the fish acts. I know I need to take them all to sick tank but what do I do to keep from getting it again. Water quality is fine, temp changes very little maybe 1 degree a day. I've taken them to sick tanks 2 other times once for 4 weeks and the other for 6 weeks. I guess what gets me confused is that a few fish will get ich and the others are untouched and fine. I just don't know what I'm doing wrong. fish in tank Powder brown purple Kole hippo tangs royal Gramma 4 green Chromis flame angel tiger goby <<Blake: The best treatment for ich is to slowly lower the SG in your QT to 1.009 (as measured with a refractometer), leave it there for 6 weeks, and then slowly raise it to your main tank SG. Unfortunately, for you, ich needs a host fish to survive the 6 week period. Thus, if you leave any fish in your main tank, you will never break the ich cycle. If you don't have any live rock or inverts in your main tank (because the SG 1.009 is too low for them), you could do the treatment in the main tank. If you do, you could pull them out of the main tank, and maintain them in a separate tank while you treat the main tank. I usually don't like to move the SG more than .002 per day up or down (as measured with a refractometer). After the 6 weeks, no ich will have survived in your tank. You then slowly raise the QT from SG 1.009 to where your main tank is. While the whole process takes several weeks, you will beat ich for good. In the future, never introduce a fish without going through the 6 week QT. It's the way I do it and I have never had ich in the main tank (though I have had it seen it many times at the start of the QT process). Best of luck, Roy>>

ICH treatment, QT duration question 9/4/06 Hi crew, Happy Labor Day! <Thanks, to you as well> I'm writing to ask an ICH treatment/QT duration question and a Blenny question. I purchased a Royal Gramma on August 13. He was doing well in my bare QT tank until August 24 when I noticed he would not eat that day and there were white spots on his fins. Despite the fact that I dipped him in Meth Blue before the QT tank he apparently came down with ICH. Determined to not lose this fish (as I've had a bad streak lately) I immediately started treating him with SeaTest Copper and followed the manufacturers directions which was to treat for 10 - 14 days, testing daily to ensure proper copper levels. The white spots were gone after 1 day on the fish and he started eating the very next day and has been eating daily since. His 14 day treatment period ends on Sept 6. My question is, how many additional days/weeks should I keep the fish in the QT tank to be certain the disease does not come back before I move him to my display tank? <4 to 6 weeks from the end of the treatment.> I am patient and want to be as sure as I can be that he's "cured" before I move him to the show tank. He's been in the QT a total of 23 days now but was treated for ICH starting on August 24. Also, I wanted to buy a Lawnmower Blenny. I typically QT my new arrivals a solid 30 days before moving to my main tank but since this particular fish would be happier in my main tank which has lots of green algae he would eat, what would be a good length of time to QT this fish before moving him to the main tank. I would be feeding him some sheet algae (Ocean Nutrition Algae) on a clip until the QT period ends. Thanks for your help! Your most welcome, Leslie>