QuarFAQs2

FAQs on Quarantine 2

Aesthetic quarantine Good day to you, <and you as well, my friend> I am in the process of establishing a 15 gallon quarantine tank and as I can only set it up in the living area of home, I want it to look as good as possible. What living organisms (if any) can I keep safely in a Q tank?? <few if any are to be recommended for many reasons... not the least of which is a resident becoming territorial to all newcomers. A proper QT is limited to the one QT specimen. Your bio-filter for this tank could and should be maintained by simply running it at all times in your main display which is assumedly healthy enough to warrant the consideration of bringing a new fish in in the first place. So a simple sponge filter running in the display sump and waiting is appropriate. The QT can be empty and stored in wait for a new entry. If it sits empty and filled, it will be too tempting to make it a nano reef anyway...heehee> As I do not envisage a high turnover as my 120 gal display is already fully stocked and I have yet to lose a fish so I don't really want to have an empty tank sitting around constantly. <if you must keep it running, perhaps a few green Chromis damsels... they are peaceful> As always, thanks and regards, MJP <regards, Anthony>

Re: Aesthetic quarantine Thanks Anthony, <very welcome, my friend> It looks like I have been lucky with the display tank and not imported any killers (yet observed) and have now been given grace to set-up a quarantine system. I think I did have a close scrape with ich, but after two dots on a purple tang, I have seen no more trace in three weeks. In fact all is thriving! <the best news to hear!> I will take your advice re the Chromis, I have also heard this from a few other sources. <yes... they are categorically peaceful and the exception among damsels> What are your thoughts about putting some LR into the quarantine also (and YES, I will resist the urge to turn it into a nana reef!!) really for both filtration and appearance. :) MJP <as much as I love the idea of live rock in most any tank, a QT that is ever going to be used as a QT needs to be devoid of porous and calcareous media (rock, sand, gravel, etc) that will absorb and temper meds, harbor parasites, etc. With fish, live rock, sand or gravel... it ceases to be a functional QT and becomes a liability instead for future stressed/sick fish. Please do review the FAQs and pages in the archives for the boring details of QT setup and hardware. The crash course though is a literally empty/bare tank, a sponge filter, diffused light and a plastic ornament (easily sanitized). All for maximum meds and minimum disease. best regards, Anthony > Quarantine Tanks & Saltwater ICH Hello Bob, Thanks for the previous advise on fish acclimation procedures for my store. If you have time I would like to ask a few unrelated questions. 1.) I have been told by several apparently knowledgeable people that they have used Melafix from Aquarium Pharm. to successfully treat saltwater ich (crypto.) in reef tanks. A Lab person from AP said he had seen it work in actual systems but said that he had no explanation as to why it would since Melafix had no effect on Cryptocaryon in a laboratory setting. Have you seen/used/heard of this as a successful treatment method? <Only have heard second and more hand anecdotal accounts on the use of this product... the vast majority have found its use to be ineffective. I likewise don't know, or have heard an explanation, causative mechanism why/how this homeopathic remedy works> 2.) In one of your FAQs you stated: "Well, I think entrenched ich problems are bunk! To be avoided or severely selected against. Try the cleaners and keep your water quality optimized and sooner but definitely later the ich problem will lose its virulence. I am of the opinion that unlike the holociliate causative agent of freshwater ich (Ichthyophthirius multifilius) the marine namesake is not omnipresent... has to be brought in... in almost all cases on new fish livestock, and therefore can be prevented... through dips/baths and quarantine." Is your opinion based on personal experience or is there some research to suggest that this is the case. I'm not disputing but had always been told/believed that saltwater ich was always present to some degree. <I have heard this over and over myself... would have to do some delving into this issue... think my earliest exposure to what my stated opinion is came from reading Ed Kingsford Jr. "Treatment of Marine Fish Disease" title if memory serves. Maybe (re)inforced by more recent of Ed Noga's works on same topic. There are parasite-free marine systems, assuredly.> 3.) Now for a really hard question (and a bit of venting after a bad day at the "LFS")...How the hell do you convince people that it is in their best interest to buy a quarantine tank? <Ha! If I/we could answer this we could go on the Crusade circuit and make the big bongo bucks! Or save a few million organisms, and lesser number of hobbyists every year. In other words, you got me> I can tell them a UV Sterilizer is "somewhat helpful for disease prevention" and they spend $150 bucks with no problem but have yet to convince anyone to spend less than $50 on a complete setup for use as a quarantine tank. Any secret sales technique here? <I've tried most of the "hot buttons" I could come up with... the best is likely showing folks that you utilize the same gear, procedures (or even more likely, that you've "done it for them"), citing all the general reasons for quarantining... You've got my vote. Bob Fenner> Thanks, Richard

Hospital/Quarantine Tank Hi, I have a few questions about a Hospital/Quarantine Tank. First of all would I have to keep the tank up and running all the time? <No> Would it be possible to not have to keep it running unless needed, by keeping a extra filter on the main tank and when ready to use the tank, fill it up with 80% of water from the main tank plus new water and then just take the filter off the main tank and put it on the hospital tank? <Exactly what I do and recommend.> Thanks for your advice. <You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

1st Quarantine Tank Hi WWM crew! I am about 10 days through my first quarantine experience and I would like to have you comments on what happened. In addition, by documenting what I did, others may be able to avoid my anxiety and their livestock can suffer less stress. <Yes, we all learn from one another.> After reading the site's FAQs and the CMA on QT I chose a 10G tank, heater, small sponge filter, and a couple lengths of 1.5" PVC joined by a T. <All good.> I planned on two Firefish Goby - Nemateleotris magnifica about 1.5" each that my daughter was giving me as a father's day present. I was going on vacation for 6 days and she was going to purchase the fish from the LFS she works at and place them in the QT for me. This was OK with me because she was taking care of my main tank while I was gone and probably has more experience with this than me. I setup the tank with RO/DI water that I added IO salt to and "cured" with a powerhead for about 48 hours. Well, like all good plans, this one didn't follow the script and she decided to wait until I got back to buy the fish. I acclimated the fish to the QT tank (didn't have the guts to do anything but a freshwater dip, but otherwise followed your instructions for acclimation). Day 1, the fish seemed OK and were swimming in the tank and spending time in the tube structure. They both immediately took food. I did the 20% water change each day. On day 3, one of the fish was having a difficult time swimming upright, was in the tube (sideways near the top) and its mouth was constantly open. When I checked the ammonia, it was between 0.5 and 1.0 PPM. The other fish seemed OK, but was staying in the tube as well. I immediately did a 60% water change and within 15-20 minutes, the stressed fish came to. I did the most unscientific thing possible, but at the same time as the water change, I added a small power head at the surface to help with gas exchange. I don't know which had the better effect, but felt the fish was in serious trouble. Now we are in day 8 and all seems well. I have increased the water changes to 30% daily. Now to the questions: I was vacuuming the uneaten food from the tank after feeding but maybe I missed some thing? Was the 20% water change sufficient for this many fish in a 10G? <Sufficient for something's (cysts and detritus removal, promoting immune system response, etc.), but not for reducing ammonia if this is an un-cycled tank.> Would it be more effective to split the water changes to 10-15% morning and night rather than all at once? Was allowing the QT to run without livestock for nearly a week a contributing factor? <Unsure> I am certainly happy that I chose a hardy fish for this first experience, for I would have killed a more delicate species. Thanks, Don BTW, Mr. Fenner, if you are reading this, thanks for the CMA and for all the WWM crew, thanks for this web site. <Thank you for the kind words. Be sure to tell your friends. -Steven Pro>

1st Quarantine Tank II The sponge from the filter was floated in the main tank for 4 days before placing the filter in the QT. But then the QT was left unused for 6 days. The filter was new and had never been run before. Next time I will actually run the filter in the display tank before using it for QT and eliminate the delay in stocking the QT. <You will need to run the filter in the display tank for one month to become fully effective.> Thanks again. <You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Right Size Quarantine Hello there piscatorial comrades, <Good afternoon.> I am in the process of selecting/shopping for a suitable quarantine tank. I have my eye on an enclosed unit, 15 gal. with biological filtration and fluorescent lighting. <Ok> I don't really want to change water every day (desirable for me to make 20% every week or so when under treatment). I am also told that one needs to keep a fish or two in such a tank to maintain the biological filter? <Not true. Much better to buy a regular tank with hood and add a heater and a sponge filter or BioWheel powerfilter. Either filter can be run off of your main tank and removed when needed for the QT.> I would value any comment on the above, with particular reference to the size of tank. Best regards, Michael <Size depends greatly on what you will be purchasing for your display tank. If you never plan to buy something over 2" a ten to twenty gallon tank will suffice. If you wish to QT a 6" Naso tang, your QT tank will have to be much larger. -Steven Pro>

Bicolor blenny - disease id? Hi everyone at WWM, <cheers, my friend. Anthony Calfo in your service> Yesterday I brought home a bicolor blenny. He looked in good shape at the LFS and was very attentive. The guy at the LFS said that he's had him for almost a year. (and to my stupidity thinking that a year in the LFS didn't require a quarantine) <ahhh... I understand your logic but it would only had a chance to preclude a QT tank if the fish was in a tank that never saw a new addition (wild fish, rock, coral, etc) for that same past year. Even then, a LFS store has nets, fingers, hands, etc that dip in tanks with new fish and then dip into the blennies display tank as well. Many chances for a disease to be transmitted. And I suspect that this blennies tank had new coral or fish added monthly if not weekly> tonight while I was watching my aquarium, I noticed that he had some white spots. <common Ich?> Upon further observation, the corners of his mouth, his antennas, as well as some spots on his body are white. looks like discoloration of his skin, no lumps or roughness. <may just be a fright/stress pattern as new to the tank. Especially if it looks only like a change in pigmentation... not mucous> he is very alert and poked his head out of his hole all day long. I've never heard of a bicolour blenny changing colors, <they have tremendous color change as they age and even day to night with night/fright patterns> or have his antennae change color. I haven't seen him eat yet, but he is just new to the system so I didn't think much of this. <agreed... but do try Mysis shrimp in addition to greens. Actually, Sweetwater Plankton might be even better> I'm very concerned. is this ich or do they change color like the midas blenny or something else altogether?? <if those spots are not raised like grains of salt, or the fish does not get mucous (from mucus <G>), and you see know rapid gilling, scratching or glancing... then just continue to observe> Thanks Barry <best regards, Anthony>

QT Still Needed? Hello Mr. Bob & Co., I have three Maldives Clowns in my 40 gal reef tank with several corals and 2 saddle carpets. <Neat> About 3 months ago I introduced a purple tang without QT... <Oh oh> this was a mistake obviously because 3 days in, the purple tang was riddled with Ich. The thought of breaking down the tank to retrieve the tang seemed too daunting so I decided to let nature decide its own course. About 5 days later, the purple tang met its end in the mouth of one of the carpets. However, unfortunately I noticed ich sprouting on the clowns. Again I decided to let nature run its course. The clowns never showed any signs of decline and the dots would disappear then reappear over a months time. This week I would like to introduce these clowns that have shown no signs of Ich for 2 months now into my new 135 gallon reef tank, but am not sure if these clowns need another stint at QT before being introduced in the new tank. Are these clowns Ich-free? <More likely, accurately ich-resistant though likely carriers> You see technically they have been in QT along with all the other inverts, because the 40 reef tank will be the new much needed QT tank. Sincerely, Dennis

Q-tank set-up Bob, <Steven Pro in for a little while tonight.> I really enjoy reading the website and have used a lot of information from it. I have a quick question about a quarantine tank. I went ahead and decided to set one up. <Good> I had a Kole Tang begin to get some ick so I set up a 10 gallon tank with two rocks, a heater set at 80, a hang-on type filter with no carbon, a bubble wand, and I am using RedSea's Paracure Copper treatment and trying to keep it at 0.3 ppm. I also do a 20% water change daily. <The water changes are excellent. If you will commit to continuing them on a daily basis for two weeks, that in of itself will effect a cure.> I was wondering if this setup is good and if there is anything I can do to make it less stressful on the fish. <Really better to have an established biological filter, such as a sponge filter, and all inert decorations. Much more info here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quaranti.htm and on the linked FAQ files.> Thanks, Frank <Good night. -Steven Pro>

What Needs Quarantined? Greetings, Do you need to quarantine a maxima clam? <Best to quarantine anything.> If so, why and for how long? <Generally two weeks minimum with one month being best. Clams sometimes carry parasitic snails that can attack and kill clams in the confines of aquariums.> How do you get around the need for metal halides in a quarantine situation? <You really can't. Again, it is a matter of investment. Clams are not cheap and if you have several, bring in a new one that is infected, and then lose all your clams, you will wish you had quarantined. It is actually a quite frequent story that you hear.> Do you need to quarantine soft/hard corals? <Yes, and liverock too.> Many thanks, Michael <You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Quarantine Clams Good morning/evening Steven, <Good afternoon.> If I was only to keep one clam, would that reduce the need for quarantine? <Reduce but not eliminate. Always best to follow good husbandry practices.> Does this creature carry organisms which may also be dangerous for fish/corals? <Possible infectious agents in the shipping water.> Having read quite a bit about clams/care/diseases and predators on your site and others, how would I know if some predator snail/worms which are not commonly visible (remain hidden in attached rock) were present, short of seeing the clam die? <See if you cannot find Daniel Knop's excellent book "Giant Clams". He has written an extensive section on identifying and treating various "diseases" of clams. -Steven Pro>

No Quarantine and the Problems that Causes II Good evening fine folk, <And good morning to you.> A question for you; I have recently (yesterday) introduced a Purple tang into my 120 gal reef tank. Other tankmates are Kole tang, 2 x false perculas, a Halichoeres chrysus, a fat mandarin fish (which was thin when I got him but now grazes all day on LR), <Low fish population combined with a large tank and amount of liverock is all that is required. Sadly, few Mandarins collected find there way into such a system. All too many are forced to compete against damsels, wrasses, Pseudochromis, etc. and do not fare well.> Do you consider my system having a low fish load? <Yes> 2 x coral banded shrimp. Also a few softies and a mushroom coral. Water parameters are PH 8.23, Ammonia <0.1, Nitrate and Nitrite are 0, temp. 25.0 centigrade, salinity 1.025. <All sounds good.> The temperature varies from 25 through the night to 26 at evening (due to halides). The change is gradual but daily. Do you consider this a problem? <No, normal to have some variation, but you do want to minimize it. One degree centigrade is not too bad.> I have noticed six/seven white dots/marks on one fin of the Purple tang, Zebrasoma xanthurum, nowhere else. I can't get a positive ID because he moves too much but I would also say that the dots don't appear to have substance to them making me think they may be just marks (or perhaps just me being hopeful :)). <Perhaps> This tang is eating aggressively, grazing continuously and has improved in depth of color since introduction. I did look closely at him in the LFS but they don't have bright lights and I missed these blemishes, <All the more reason for a quarantine tank.> I also discussed the fish's health with the owner (who is also a hobbyist for many years) and he said the fish was in good health. <He maybe a nice guy, but what else is he going to say?> Sure, but I have spent 6-7 thousand with this guy and would expect to spend another 6k in the coming year, if he doesn't burn me! <Sadly, it is a rather common occurrence for many LFS owners to take a rather short term view to their business. The simple fact is that the hobby burnouts a lot of people every year and there are always new ones coming in with cash in hand.> I can examine him a lot more closely under my metal halides. He also seems to have a touch of HLLS. Anyway, as you have already guessed, I don't own/operate a quarantine tank right now, but will in about a week (and certainly before my next introduction). It really is not worth the worry of not operating one (if anyone reading this is in any doubt). Certainly NOT a luxury. <Glad you realized and learned this valuable lesson. A 10-20 gallon tank, hood, heater, sponge filter, and air pump is all that is needed and is a rather cheap investment in your fishes health. Comparing the price of the quarantine tank setup to the price of replacing all your fish, all will see how wise the QT purchase is.> I actually believe one cannot/should not keep these creatures without one, but I don't want to get on a soapbox! <Me too!> By the by, this fish had been in quarantine for two weeks prior to my purchase (required to import into this country). What would you recommend my next course of action be (given that I don't have anywhere else to put this fish at the moment and I don't feel comfortable I have made a positive ID on the white spots/marks anyway)? <If you can catch him, a freshwater dip would be in order.> Done and no visible effect, still there. <It is a continual process. One to be repeated over the course of a week. Much more to be read about FW dips in the WWM archives.> Wait and watch carefully? <That and medicated food for parasites would be helpful.> What would I expect to see? More dots appear? Over what time and how many? When would they disappear/drop off if life cycle is observed? When will I know if they are just marks or parasites? <The parasites die and reproduce every 8-24 hours depending on temperature. Also, their eggs can remain viable but unhatched for up to one month, so not unusual for you to think you are out of the clear and the infestation reappears.> Can you medicate a reef tank with anything effective (no copper)? I am not too worried about the HLLS as it does not sound contagious and believe it should reverse with proper care/diet. <Correct on both accounts.> Many thanks for your great site, it continues to be a daily source of information for me. AND TODAY ALSO!!! ~Jordon <Do archive the site for pictures on Cryptocaryon infected fish, various alternative treatments, and HLLS. -Steven Pro> <Have a nice day! -Steven Pro>

Quarantine Follow-up Don't worry... 2 week quarantine (that's what I thought you folks always recommend - I don't think I've seen you suggest 4 weeks before). ~Jes <Two weeks is the absolute minimum. That is what you can get away with if your fish was in perfect health and eating when you purchased it and remained that way for two weeks. If you have any problems, feeding or disease, the fish must remain in quarantine for two weeks after returning to complete health. For most people, it takes a few days to discover and diagnosis the problem, a week or more for treatment, and then two weeks of observation - total four weeks. -Steven Pro>

The need for proper QT I have a Regal (blue) Tang, <AKA "ich Magnet" <G>> approx. 4.5 inches in length that has a grayish fuzzy growth on the first 5 spines of its dorsal fin. The fish looked healthy when I purchased it and for about a week it did not show any signs of this growth. This growth seems to have manifested itself overnight. <this is one of the most categorically sensitive fishes to disease... this and all new fishes must be quarantined... 4 weeks is best. Else you are playing Russian roulette with live animals... not a crime when you haven't been advised to do so, but irresponsible after you know better <wink>> I consulted the store where I purchased the fish and they suggested it was a fungus and sold me MarOxy to treat it. <somewhat weak... but OK> After four days of treatment the growth seems diminished, however, the cleaner shrimp has cleaned the fish to the point where the cartilage of the dorsal fin that had the growth is now exposed. <and it will continue to do so... they must be separated until the tang heals> Now, on one side of the fish a bump as formed under the skin just behind the eye. The fish is eating regularly and does not show any signs of distress. I have 2 Yellow tail damsels, a Coral Beauty and a Yellow Tang all of which seem unaffected and healthy. My ammonia, nitrate and nitrite levels are zero and salinity is at 1.021, I do have a concern about my water temperature which ranges from 80 to 82 F. <a real concern too... simply add another heater to stabilize... if you are looking for quality, titanium and stainless units are available with remote thermostats... they are excellent> The aquarium is 75 gals and I have an oversized sump with mechanical/Bio ball filtration, an oversized protein skimmer and a 15 watt U/V sterilizer unit. Any suggestions? ken <put the fish in QT for a minimum of 2 weeks. Remove after 7 full days of disease free symptoms. Best regards, Anthony>

Re: Quarantine Tank Thanks for your advice. <A pleasure to serve> Local aquarium dealers seem more interested in selling cannon fodder than fish. I have a lot to learn. <As do I, others> I know a QT is required, but my recourses are limited. Is a 10 gallon tank too small? Ken <Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quaranti.htm Be chatting, Bob Fenner>

Biological Cycling I have a 10 gallon QT setup and have been trying with no luck to maintain a biological filter (pre-seeded sponge etc). In lack of thereof, I have been doing a 10% water change (premixed and PH adjusted) every other day in order to limit the nitrites and ammonia. Is this an acceptable approach? Thanks as always, Joe <Please have a read through here re establishing (or keeping going) biological cycling: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/estbiofiltmar.htm and the associated FAQs, and the FAQs on Quarantine: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quaranti.htm Bob Fenner>

Re: Bugs! (Quarantine, copper) Wow! Thanks for the quick reply. I do have one more question, hope you don't mind. I have had my fish in QT for three weeks but just started with copper because these fish I moved showed no sign of ich. <agreed... never medicate unless necessary> I had already lost three fish, but the remaining fish showed no signed until last week. That is why I delayed in treating w/copper. I hope I didn't endanger my fish even more by waiting. Sorry for the long post, here is my question do I continue to QT these fish for another four weeks? <The rule is a minimum of seven disease free days after last symptom is gone. Likely 2+ weeks and four more would be better> Very much appreciated! Lori <kindly, Anthony Calfo>

Puffer in quarantine Hello Gentlemen, <Cheers> We come to you with a problem, and sincerely appreciate all your help and information. <thank you kindly> We purchased a dogface puffer (4.5") two days ago and set up a quarantine tank (10 gallons) <holy cow!!! should've purchased a smaller fish or a bigger QT tank <smile>. Did you need a shoehorn to get him in? Heehee> for him using water from our main system. We placed the q tank's filter cartridge in our main system's sump for a couple of days prior to installing it (the filter we bought was missing the bio-wheel and had to be returned, so I wasn't able to seed the bio-wheel ahead of time). <ahhh... several weeks is necessary at least.> Everything seemed to be going okay until last night when I noticed that the q tank's water looked a little cloudy. I had been siphoning out uneaten food and feces regularly. Upon testing the water we found that the ammonia level was 0.6-0.8, <really an extraordinary amount of fish for this sized tank...likely rather stressful to for him to go the full four week QT for safety... yet you don't want to take him out prematurely and risk the whole display tank just because of an ill-advised/impulse purchase> and we immediately did a 50% water change with water from our main system. <hmmm... some new seawater at this point would be fine> A few hours later we tested again, and it was still 0.4-0.6 (hard to match the colors exactly), so we did another 50% change. This morning I tested yet again and found the ammonia to now be at 0.2-0.4. <wow... > I have stopped feeding the puffer since we discovered the ammonia and I have continued to siphon out his feces regularly, although it is rather difficult to get all of it since it is very fragmented along the bottom. <this animal needs food to maintain health and immunity under such conditions> We are concerned about keeping the q tank's ammonia under control. The puffer hasn't eaten much since we first brought him home two days ago, and now he is completely without food. He had been at the LFS for about a month prior to us getting him, and has shown no signs of illness while there or here. <try a small live crayfish... and if uneaten be concerned for an impending bout with illness> What would you recommend as our best course of action at this point? <my hands are tied on this one... the fish needs a bigger QT simply. Putting it in the main tank would be an emergency option if the fish was eating and not stressed. But right now, this animal notorious for Ich is stressed and on the brink of going into a full display. I wouldn't make that call.> Keeping him in quarantine but doing major water changes on a daily basis? <I'm not convinced that it will make it through a full month in good health in this tank> How foolish would it be to just dip him and place him in our main system? <very IMO> Where did we go wrong with our quarantine? <this fish takes up a third of the tank fully, do consider investing quickly in a 20 long or bigger QT tank. Considering a possible future use/need for QT with this fish which gets quite large... a 20 long may even be too small, but on that I would concede for now. Daily water changes or some cured live rock (as long as not medicating) will make this process a little easier. Kudos to you for having the good thought to quarantine.> Thanks so much for your assistance. Karen <best regards, Anthony>

Re: Puffer in quarantine Anthony, Thank you very much for your prompt reply. <always welcome!> I believe I may have given you the wrong impression about our puffer's size. The tank is 20" long, and he takes up less than a quarter of it when he's lengthwise. He's actually a pretty small puffer. <hmmmm , either I misunderstood or you may have mis-measured. You mentioned a 4.5 inch puffer in a ten gallon tank. That's a lot if accurate> I fed him this afternoon, and he ate quite a bit. <good <G>> I then siphoned out another 50% of his water and replaced it with fresh saltwater. I also placed some of our main system's filter media into his filter. <a very wise move!> Hopefully that will help so that we can stay on top of the ammonia. <yes...agreed> Also, the puffer was not an impulse purchase. We are beginners, but we're trying to do things the right way. We got our main system up and running without a hitch, and its current inhabitants are thriving. <good to hear... do look into some of the tips and tricks in the archived FAQs on QT protocol for maintaining mature Biofiltration without a stocked QT tank> Thanks again for your help. Wet Web Media is an invaluable resource. Sincerely, Karen <do continue to learn, share, teach and grow. Kindly, Anthony>

Quarantine Tank -poor choice of substrate Bob, <Steven Pro in this morning.> I have recently set up a QT (thanks to you) but since I know better than you I decided to include crushed coral so that I could develop a bacteria bed, etc., and not have to worry about constant water changes. <I am guessing by your sarcasm that you are having second thoughts. The crushed coral in a quarantine tank is a truly horrible idea; makes cleaning/siphoning difficult, absorbs medications rendering them ineffective against the pathogen in question, etc. Biological filtration can be effectively accomplished via sponge filters or BioWheels.> Well, I'm at the point where I do a water change every other day and after 3 weeks the tank does not seem to be cycling. I keep getting ammonia readings but not nitrite. In addition, the pH keeps going below 8.0 even though I'm using buffer. What am I doing wrong? Should I bite the bullet and cycle with damsels so I don't put the beautiful angels at risk? Thanks as always. Joe <Steven Pro awaiting your reply.>

Re: QT Steve <Anthony Calfo with the follow up> I lost the bottom of your response but I'll continue on the topic. I have a whisper filter which contains a sponge. Will that be enough to harbor the bacteria without the crushed coral? <not at all...too modest/small> I want to avoid using a sponge filter due to the noise since the QT tank is in my daughters bedroom. <hmmm... the tetra brilliant sponge series with most any better air pump mounted on brass chain (the key! to quiet air pumps... swinging from chains under the stand) is really quite silent and a much better filter. Else, an AquaClear power filter with two coarse foam blocks is a close surrogate> How often do I need to do water changes in the Qt under these conditions? <depends on the nature of the holding... just acclimating a new import or diseased fish. Also, follow your water chemistry. At least weekly small water changes and as much as daily during treatment for parasites> The water that I am using for the water changes has been Ph balanced with buffer so why does the PH keep dropping? <was the water purified before hand (R/O or DI) and not aerated (very soft and high in carbonic acid). Else, test the hardness of your tap water suspecting it is med to soft and simply needs more buffer> Thanks again. Joe <best regards, Anthony>

Quarantine tank Hi guys, not sure who will answer, but thanks a lot in advance. This site is the best...... I have a purple tang, tomato clown, Gobiosoma goby, and a cleaner shrimp with 1 live rock in QT they have been there for almost 5 weeks. I was going to add to display tank this weekend. Everything was going great all eating well and looking very content, but today I got home and tang has many white spots. I gave him a 7 minute fresh water dip with Kordon's Formalin-3 which is formaldehyde, less than 3%. Clown and goby got a 5 minute dip all seem to taken dip fine also started to raise temp. to 82. <Good time frames... do hope you were adding air... like with an airstone during the dip/baths> I put the cleaner shrimp in 5 Gallon bucket with the live rock and a heater and small power head. QT is 29 gallon tank with skimmer and Aqua clear 300 filter and power head, bare bottom tank with a few PVC pipes for hiding. After fresh water dip I turned off skimmer and added sea cure by Aquarium Systems as instructed by LFS. Directions say after 12 hr. add another 1/2 dose. Also will test to make sure copper level is in correct range before adding 1/2 dose. <Good> Now the questions. 1. How long before I can add cleaner shrimp and rock to main tank? <They are, have been separated from the treated fishes? They can be placed at any time if so> 2. Because of the copper was it OK to use sea cure? <SeaCure is a copper solution...> Or should I have used something else? LFS told me it would be OK on tang because only 2 week treatment needed. <It is a fine product. Just needs monitoring, re-application> 3. How often should I do water changes on QT and how much? I realize must treat replacement water with SEA CURE. 4. Should they stay in QT 2 or 4 weeks after 2 week treatment? 5. Tang likes to pick at sea weed selects all day and eats a varied diet. Should I cut back on how much he is fed? 6. Is there anything else I should do, besides pray? Again Thanks very much; Pat Reinhart <Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quaranti.htm and the FAQs beyond... and re Copper Use as well. Bob Fenner>

Quarantine Tank I have a question about setting up a Q-tank. What should I use to cycle a Q-tank. I am new to salt water (but have been reading, reading, reading, & researching for 5 months now) and do not have my main tank set-up yet. All the info I have gathered suggest you quarantine all new livestock. So my plan is to start my Q-tank first since it will take 6 weeks to cycle, and 4 weeks to cycle the first livestock. Would you recommend cycling the Q-tank with LR, and after the cycle, put the LR in the main tank and buy more to cycle it. <Sounds like a good plan.> Or should I cycle both tanks at the same time? <You could do this also, but do not leave any liverock in the QT.> The Q-tank is a 30 gallon and the main tank is a 120. If I cycled the Q-tank with LR, how much should I get to cycle it with? <10-20 pounds should be enough.> I plan on getting an AquaClear 300 or 500 filter to run on the Q-tank. What type of skimmer would you recommend me running on a 30 Q-tank gallon tank? <Not really needed. You should/will be doing many water changes and only having livestock in there occasionally.> I also plan on getting a UV for the Q-tank. I have also read that you like the Kati Ani type of deionizers. I have searched the web and seem to only find the Deion 200 from AquaDirect for $200. Is there another brand/model you recommend, and where would I find it? Thank You for the support and hours of work you put into the site. Six months ago, I thought it was impossible to have a marine aquarium. Now, I am close to having one. Jesse <Glad to hear it. -Steven Pro>

Snail Quarantine? You guys are the best. Thanks so much for all your information. A couple questions... I've read conflicting info about whether or not to quarantine snails prior to adding them to a tank. We want to get about a half dozen turbo snails from our LFS who has them in established reef tanks. Is a quarantine or some sort of dip necessary before placing them in our FOWLR tank? <Ideally, yes quarantine. Also a good idea to not put outside water (from the LFS) into your tanks.> Also, how concerned should I be about the copper pipes in our house? <Minimal for most.> Will R/O remove any copper that may leach into the water? <Yes with many other things.> Thanks again. Karen <You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Re: wow!, Follow-up to Various Treatments My water changes are once every month, about 10 gallons. <For the daily FAQ readers, this is in a 55.> I have a Fluval 304 canister filter, 2 power heads, twin tube fluorescent strip 10k lights. no ammonia, nitrite, and always less than 10ppm nitrate (usually 0) my tang today now has very visible white specks on his fins, and eyes and dark specks on his body (mostly his head area) is marecyn2 and copper a good treatment (should I only do one) in a hospital tank of course. <Quarantine with daily freshwater dips for one week would be my choice. Followed by an additional two weeks minimum of quarantine.> BTW, my puffer sunken stomach has gotten better and the specks on the clown have almost disappeared. I feed formula 1, frozen krill, and brine shrimp plus. I soak them in vitamins a few times a week. I am writing you cause my pet store doesn't seem to ever help. Thanks again

Re: wow!, More Follow-up to Various Treatments (filter in quarantine system) What should I use as a filter in the hospital tank? <Something biologically active> Last time I medicated so I couldn't use carbon. <You can use carbon with the dips.> I took some filter media out of the Fluval and put it in a whisper 3 (over the side filter) by the end of the week the ammonia and nitrite were really high. I know I can use carbon if I'm just quarantining the fish with no medication, but if I use medication (in the future) what should I use to filter the hospital tank? <A seeded sponge filter is best. We have discussed this in the various FAQ's previously.> Thanks, Bryan P.S. Someone told me to treat it with "herbal ick attack" have you ever heard of it? <Nope> Also, would you worry about the bumps on my puffers head? <Maybe, I don't know what they are or what they look like. Have a look through the disease section of WWM and see if you can find anything that looks similar. -Steven Pro>

Re: wow!, Even More Follow-up to Various Treatments (finally a/the referral...) Do freshwater dips kill all parasites including ick? <You can find your answer here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dips_baths.htm -Steven Pro>

Quarantine Filter Hi Bob, <Steven Pro this evening.> I have a question, right now I have a penguin bio wheel filter that has been on my main tank for 6 weeks in order to seed the wheel for a quarantine or hospital tank. It is not my main source of filtration so I was wondering if I could remove the entire bio wheel filter to reduce the clutter in the tank. But, the problem is that I still need some biological filtration on deck in case I want to add new fish or hospitalize a fish. My idea is to float the bio wheel by itself in the main aquarium, if this will work. <Would not work well and would be more "clutter", IMO.> Or I could place the wheel in the bio media column of my CPR bakpak2. <A better solution. My only concern is some of these BioWheels used to come with a stainless steel spindle. I think they have switch to ceramic now. If yours has a ceramic shaft, I would go ahead and submerge it in the Bak-Pak. It will work, but probably not quite as effectively as in the Penguin filter. -Steven Pro>

Post TX QT cleaning Now, my problems turn to my QT which I need to strip down and clean. What do you recommend using to clean out the system and make sure that none of these diseases survive to re-infect my next quarantined fish? Also what should I do to clean all of my nets, siphons and filter equipment used on the QT? I tried searching your site for this info but just could not find the kind of info I needed. Thanks for the reply, John < everything (nets and all) in the running QT tank with a 1/4 cup of bleach for 24 hours will do the trick. Then drain, rinse, and refill with FW and add a generous overdose of plain dechlorinator (cheap "Dechlor" brand will be fine) and continue to run for another 24 hours. Should be no smell of chlorine after that. Air dry all to be certain (chlorine dissipates easily). That's it...48 hours and short and sweet. Anthony>

Quarantine & Copper Hello, another question. Thanks for the advice the other day. I e-mailed about a clown with "pop eye," we took our LFS advice and quarantined him and TX with copper, our first time every quarantining and TX with copper so we were a little nervous. But we're happy to report the little guy is doing great and seems to have almost 100 percent resolved. But, the problem is, the ammonia in the q- tank is almost 1.0 which is a little worrisome. There's no filter running in the tank due to the copper and worry of taking all the copper out. There's only one fish in there and it's a 10 gallon tank. What should we do? <Get a seeded biological filter on there as soon as possible and perform a water change, then redose copper for removed water only. You should also have a copper test kit to be sure of your levels.> I suggested a water change but that would probably dilute the copper and screw up everything we're trying to do. <You can always add more.> What do you think? We could put the filter back on the q-tank (it's a hang on the side filter, the filter has been in the main tank sump for bacteria consumption for 1 month. Not sure what to do. <Put the filter back on.> Any help would be great. One other question. We bought a red lipped blenny on Saturday. He's in the main tank and doing great, but he's not eating the food we feed. We feed flakes in the am and frozen brine in the PM. We do have 100 lbs of live rock in a 90 gallon tank and a lot of algae growth and he seems to be going nuts picking at the algae on the rocks and on the back and sides of the tank. Is he getting enough? <Probably, I have never seen my algae blenny eat any prepared foods.> He certainly seems happy. Also, would a night watchman goby and the red lipped get along?? <Should be ok.> Ok, enough for now. Thanks again, I find all of your info sooo helpful!! So thankful the clown is better!! Thanks soo much!! Katie <You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Quarantine Tank Hello, Hope all is well? I have a question, a couple of weeks ago I emailed you all and Anthony responded to my inquiry. I had to do with treating my Red Sea Regal Angel for frayed fins. Well Anthony suggested that a quarantine tank and formalin treated might do the trick and he thought it was due to a secondary infection. Well my question is how long can a 20gallon quarantine tank run with aqua Clear 802 power head. The primary purpose of treatment is to dose with formalin to rid the fish of any parasites, which might be causing the fins and tail to fray. Also to try to improve the fish's diet, by offering a variety of foods soaked with vitamins. The set up of the tank is water from the display tank, some small pieces of live rock which I know will die from treatment, but I am trying to keep the fish happy, as it doesn't eat if not around live rock. Some substrate (Crushed coral & live sand mix from display tank). Will the power head be enough for these conditions, for about a month or do I actually need a filter. Considering I will be feeding frequently and the fact that ammonia may increase from the live rock and sand dying eventually. <Really not the best/most appropriate setup for a quarantine tank. Please read through this page http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quaranti.htm and some of the linked FAQ files.> Also any ideas as to what foods to offer this species, it eats just about any frozen foods, but doesn't care for pellets. <A mix of many different foods is best. You can read Bob's tips on these fish here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/pygoplit.htm> thanks Gillian <You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Quarantine Tank First, let me tell you that I have read again and again your wonderful book, "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist." It is excellent! <Steven Pro in today before going off to the ball game. Bob's book is an absolute must have for any saltwater fish keeper.> I have a question regarding quarantine tank use and the nitrification cycle. If you have the tank up and running with no fish, it must cycle before it is safe for delicate species. If you use a cycling product or a damselfish until ammonia is at zero, then need to use medication (either antibiotics or copper), isn't the nitrifying bacteria destroyed by the meds? <Possibly damaged, but not destroyed with proper dosage.> Do you leave the BioWheel running? <Yes, preferably on your main tank.> (If not, will the bacteria living there survive an extended time just sitting in a bowl of aquarium water?) If the tank was used for a sick fish and medication applied, your book states that it must be dumped and cleaned before use for a subsequent non-fish, but then won't there be an ammonia problem? <Yes. Best solution is to use a cheap, simple sponge filter placed in the sump of your main tank (out of view) or in your case moving the BioWheel filter back and forth.> What steps, if any, do you take for use with a subsequent fish? Where are the nitrifying bacteria living for the new batch of water? <See above notes.> The details of using the separate tank are foggy in relation to the ammonia question, but maybe I'm making it more difficult than it needs to be. Please inform me on this topic. I am anxious to learn. <Much more can be learned from the webpage and the subsequent links, http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quaranti.htm> My quarantine tank is a ten-gallon tank with Bio-wheel and undergravel filter with crushed coral substrate. <Please remove UG and crushed coral. Crushed coral will absorb copper and make it less effective. Quarantine tanks should have a bare bottom.> I hope this is sufficient as it is with this set-up that I began my saltwater adventure. I'm the proud owner of a 120-gallon Oceanic that is doing wonderfully at this time, having been researched for many months, but up for only 6 weeks, it is becoming a beautiful mini-reef! I have one other question. I have a maroon clownfish that had what appears to be one blind eye (looks to be hazy) occurring since moving to tank with live rock, and it started hanging head down in the front corner of the tank in the evening, resting this way. Otherwise, it appears as it always has, eating heartily and swimming around just fine. <Could be an eye infection. Epsom salt added at one tablespoon per 5 gallons may bring about a cure. Also, try medicated for bacterial and fungal infection food.> I've had this fish for nearly a year. The only other fish tankmate is a Yellow Tang, and they are buddies. There are Peppermint shrimp, Emerald Mithrax crabs, various hermits, and snails. Thank you for your time, the book, and your reply. Jackie <You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Questions. . . QT tank I am setting up a 20 gallon hospital tank and need some advice. What kind of filtering system should I have? <many choices... I like sponge/foam blocks running in display and ready to be moved to QT when called for> What will be the estimated cost of the filtering system? <under $20, perhaps under $10> Do I have to have a protein skimmer? <likely not... compensate with small daily water changes (helps reduce parasites)> Will keeping two or three small damsels be enough to keep the tank cycled? <not needed if above sponges run in a healthy tank at all times and they are not recommended because of their potential aggression on a new or stressed fish> I have some power compacts that will fit this size tank. Would that be ok to use for the lighting or would it be too strong? <subdued light is recommended over bare bottomed QT systems> Also, I normally do a 30% water change every three weeks on my 110 gallon. Will I need to do more frequent changes on the smaller tank? Say 20% every two weeks? <depends on the reason for the stay... daily for parasite infected fish... still, 10% weekly for observation would be nice> Thanks for any help you can give. Hope you're having a great day! :) <and you as well, thank you. Anthony Calfo> Elizabeth K. Birdwell

Purple Tang QT I have several questions about quarantine tanks. 1. Should I treat purple tang with Cupramine or something else? I used Methylene blue and fresh water for dip as you recommend, has been in QT tank for two weeks eating very well and see no ill signs, no meds in water. Should I treat him with Cupramine before going into display tank? <we should always try to avoid meds if possible (only when necessary)... however, some folks feel that tangs warrant preventative meds because of their sensitivity to "Ich". If you agree, Formalin or Quick Cure for the last week of QT (4 week period) will be fine> 2. Should most fish be treated with Cupramine in QT after fresh water dip, or leave them in for a few weeks and wait to see if signs of problems show up? 3. How about Gobiosoma gobies. Is it recommended to dip or QT cleaner shrimp? <technically ALL live animals (Fish, shrimp, coral, live rock, anything wet!) should be QT'd because of the risk of disease. Be strict... a minimum of 2 weeks and 4 weeks is strongly recommended for all in my book.> Sorry I could not find any of these answers on your great site but I am new here so I might be looking at wrong places. <no worries at all... keep asking/learning/reading. Anthony> Thank you, Pat Ps. Do you e-mail answers back or do I look on site under daily Q&A? <direct reply to you and most are posted on the Q&A page as well>

QT Tank Protocol I have been reading enough here to admit that a QT Tank is the only way to go when introducing new fish. However with limited space to put such a tank how would you suggest providing one? What should it consist of, size, filter circulation, rock, heat, sand etc.? <bare bottomed tank, glass cover (or like substitute), heater, sponge filter (run in your main tank at all times to prevent the need to keep QT running and to have ready bio-filter...see below), and some easy to sterilize ornaments for hiding (like PVC fittings). Absolutely no more than this is needed. Indirect room light is usually fine (add a small light if you like) and substrate should NEVER be used (absorbs meds)> Is it something that can be setup only when needed by using material from main tank, so as to not worry about cycle time? <exactly> I would think that if this tank is not fully cycled and running all the time that fish introduced would cause spikes in ammonia etc. that would be more harmful than good. <correct> My problem is that I don't have a place that I can set up a permanent tank. Any suggestions??? <no problem at all my friend, the following was written for another aquarist with a similar query today. For our convenience I have cut and pasted it..., " A QT tank rarely needs to be up and running... dry and ready is good enough. A simple $5 sponge filter can be running in the back of the display tank (or a sump on marine aquaria) at all times... thus biologically conditioned and easily able to handle the load of a new fish or sick fish transferred out. When the occasion arises in need of QT, the "dirty"/established sponge filter is moved to the QT tank with 50% aged water from the display. The QT and the display are then topped off with new water. Bottom line... QT is necessary... saves money and lives when you think about the great investment in a full display tank to be risked with every new fish randomly thrown in." Do explore the archives as well if you like to see some variations on QT methodology, but rest assured that it is really as direct as it seems. Best regards, Anthony> Thanks as always, Dennis Vigliotte

More Questions about Quarantine Jason, Thank you for your reply. I think you are telling me to stay the course. Water changes and Amquel. What about one of these 48 hr cycle kits (Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter boosters) or would copper just kill? D Stanley <<stay the course, indeed. Those booster formulas are mostly junk - I would avoid them. The best thing I've found of late is the stuff "cell pore" which is available in little rock-sized chunks. Anyway, you can leave a chunk in a well-cycled tank for a week or two and then throw that into the quarantine tank after the medication to bring about a quick cycle. Good luck, J -- >>

More Questions on Quarantine I moved the fish in a QT and only medicated Penicillin. Whatever that disease was in its beginning I assume) seems to have stopped. I also treated my yellow tang with the same medicine to help get rid of a white blotch/spot that appeared on his left eye. That too seems to be healing fine as well. Should I treat both fish with a copper based medication in order to be proactive on ich? <<no to the copper... best proactive activity against Ick is quarantine.>> Also, in a few occasions while I was trying to catch the fish in the 55 gallon tank, I noticed several white fuzzy looking balls(1-3 mm) on a piece of rock. I, since then, have cleaned it up and have not seen it back. Could it be this was "ich"? <<doubt it, the actual parasite can't be seen with the human eye>> The clown had some of these little fuzzy things on him/her, but they were not circular, they were triangular. <<most likely not the same thing>> Can I add aragonite sand on top of my existing sand bed? <<yes>> My sand came from the Florida West coast, and most of it looks like it's crushed coral, not sand. Will that disturb the denitrifying bacteria? <<no>> Thanks for your attention again, D. <<my pleasure. Cheers, J -- >>

Setting up Quarantine/Hospital Tank Would you describe how to set up a quarantine/hospital tank or direct me to the appropriate placed on WWM. Thanks. Richard <begin here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quaranti.htm but do learn to use the simple and ever so useful search engine on this site (tag the bullet for search WWM only) and type in "quarantine". You'll get more links to follow than you can shake a stick at! (And I suspect that you can shake a stick at a lot of links! <wink>) Anthony Calfo>

Setting Up a Hospital Tank Hello. I have set up a hospital tank with a simple filtration system, like you'd see in a fresh water system, with floss filter bags, sponge and charcoal. In fact it is an old fresh water system that I converted to a hospital tank. The ammonia reading is really high and the nitrate is climbing. It has been up since mid January 2002. I started with 10 gallons of water from my main tank and then 10 gallons of aged salt water. How can I get the ammonia and nitrate to go down? Should I start over using 20 gallons of water from the main tank when I change water in about two weeks? Suggestions welcome. Richard <Changing all the water out for old might do it... Do read through this establishing cycling piece: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/estbiofiltmar.htm (does apply to freshwater as well), and the quarantine system article and FAQs files on WetWebMedia.com under the Marine Index. Bob Fenner>

Quarantine Problems Greetings, <Salutem dicit> I'm into my third month of the marine world and all is well with my display tank. 40G Eclipse 3 system with 30lbs LR and 30lbs substrate - 3-4" deep, skimmed well, 2-4oz skimmate every day. About two months ago I added dead Lace Rock. Today I noticed the start of coralline growth on it! <Ahh!> I cycled my display and quarantine tanks with Allen Damsels and one feisty Humbug damsel. I daily read WWM, reference TCMA before making a move, quarantine fish for two healthy weeks and generally I am cautious regarding my set-up. However, I'm about to throw caution to the wind and yank my Kole Tang from quarantine and put him in the display tank after just six days. Here's the problem: I had used a small Eclipse System 6 (6 gal w/o skimmer) to quarantine my first "keeper" fish, a Royal Gramma. It did great - It loved the tank and the numbers stayed good (ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 5-10, PH 8.3, SG 1.021, Temp 77 - all same as display tank). After two weeks without any problems into the display tank goes the Royal Gramma making room for the Kole Tang I'd been eyeing. The Kole Tang had been at my LFS for three weeks - too small was the complaint from most customers (2.5"). I watched the Tang feed at the LFS on Formula 2 and decided to bring him home. Immediately he became Roscoe P. Kole Tang (a poor joke I know). <Was going to mention your use of "eyeing"... as the most common name for this fish is the "Yellow-Eye Tang"... ouch!> I offered it three different foods, Formula 2 frozen - quarter block or less, omega one veggie flakes literally two flakes offered, and a small 0.5" x 1" Ocean Nutrition seaweed select. The Tang picked a little at each. After being in the quarantine tank for 48 hours the ammonia was 1.0! I tried replacing the filter with poly filter - 48 hours later - no reduction in ammonia. I decided at this point that 6 gallons isn't nearly enough for a quarantine tank and purchased a 20 gal tank. Taking 20 gal from my display tank replaced with aged water) I filled up the quarantine tank and added 2 in-tank air powered filters for mechanical filtration along with about 1" activated carbon in each. Salinity 1.021, ph 8.3, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 10, temp 77). I offered the veggie flake and seaweed selects - nibble nibble was it. <Sounds about right> After 24 hours I had 20 gallons of 1-2ppm ammonia water. Roscoe looks good (no ich or velvet) but his breathing appears labored. I did a 50% water change and now 24 hours later back to 1-2ppm ammonia. I am ready to chuck the towel on this one and move him to the display tank, however, that goes against the grain. <Not necessarily... how to state this... Aquariums are "like life" in that they present "alternatives", rarely choices between "right/wrong"... I would freshwater (pH adjusted, dechloraminated) dip/bath this specimen and place it in your main system. The better (not best) of both possible worlds> Plus, I don't know what needs to change to successfully quarantine a fish as big as this smallish Tang. <Mmm, perhaps some/more conditioned biological media (like a sponge) from your main system> I know I need to get the ammonia down but there isn't any biological filtration going on in there yet (also very little material for the bacteria to develop onto). I could move the tang back to the 6 gallon tank which has its ammonia back down to zero but I'm concerned about handling, reoccurrence of the ammonia spike, restarting the clock on his quarantine time. So what do you think - leave him in the quarantine tank at 1-2ppm ammonia, back to the 6 gal tank, or off to display? <The latter> I end with this - If I didn't have the team at WWM to ask I'd be at a loss for where to turn - I haven't met any other Marine Aquarists yet in the area. I greatly appreciate the time that it takes to read and answer the many questions that you get daily. It must be some satisfaction that every question is someone's pursuit to do the right thing and WWM is a very deep well of answers. <It is indeed my friend. Be chatting. Bob Fenner> Thanks, Kinzie

Quarantine Problems Part 2 Greetings Again, Couldn't take the Ammonia any longer - I moved the Kole Tang back to the 6 gallon tank that is running at 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites. When I moved the tang his gills were slightly red. <Good observation... from the chemical instability, ammonia, stress of moving, small confines...> From the info. below I'm betting that my food stuffs are the problem. I skipped a key step in removing the food after a short period of feeding. The excess food leading to the ammonia. Kole already appears to be more active. The smaller tank probably isn't going to handle this for too long but it will have to do until a better solution is available. Kinzie <Do consider still moving the specimen through a freshwater bath, into your main system. Little chance of biological disease transmission and greater chance of the Kole improving. Bob Fenner>

Sick Gramma? Hi. <Anthony Calfo in your service answering mail whilst Bob recovers as the grand champion of a blueberry pie eating contest... his secret: keep it washed down with plenty of beer. Of course now having eaten all of those blueberries, he looks rather like Veruca Salt (the Willy Wonka character... not either of the lead singers from like-named rock band... how's that for an arcane reference <smile>?)> I'm worried about my royal Gramma. I bought her from the LFS about 3 weeks ago and she's been doing great. She gets along very well with the other fish, has claimed a conch shell for her territory, <a very natural spawning vessel... the shell. Do consider a mate later> and has become much more bold. A couple days ago, I noticed that she had a few small (less than a mm each) white spots on her head and tail. <ahhh... you must quarantine all fish first, my friend. To much in lives and money at stake to just be throwing fish right into a tank> Today, I noticed that the spots had multiplied and she has been flicking up against the decorations. <marine ich most likely> She is still eating well and shows no other signs of being ill. I'm wondering if this is ich or possibly marine velvet, or some other kind of parasite. <velvet if ultra fine like talc, but "Ich" (Cryptocaryon) if larger like grains of salt> She is in a tank with a couple green Chromis, a bi-color blenny, several shrimp, hermit crabs, snails, and an urchin. <can't treat a tank with calcareous media *shells, rock, sand, etc) or inverts... have to remove the fish to a hospital tank> So far, I haven't seen her being cleaned by the shrimp. <only stimulating, but not likely to effect a cure once a fish is infected in captivity... spreads too rapidly> If it is one of these parasites, are there any non-copper treatments/ medications (or something that I could use on the main tank) that you could recommend? <really nothing once the infection is established... some folks try homeopathic treatments or even Flagyl derivatives, but weakly effective> If it is, the main tank is probably contaminated already. <agreed> I'll be going out to my LFS tomorrow to look for medication (hopefully something that's safe for invertebrates). <please save your money on overpriced reef safe meds that are not likely to work. Buy a 10 gallon tank, glass cover, heater and a sponge filter...that's it: a bare-bottomed QT tank (unlit by design). Use Quick cure as per label dose for at least a week. Keep fish QT'ed for 2-4 weeks. A hardy fish and likely to be fine> Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! <best of luck to you. And please do explore some of the FAQ's archived on this site regarding parasite treatments and water changes in QT. Kindly, Anthony Calfo> P.S. If it's any help: The tank is a 30gal w/ 5-6 pounds of live rock & live gravel. I've had the tank set up for 7 months. The water quality has been super the entire time and I do regular water changes. (I guess I should explain that it had been running for about 20 years or so before I inherited it and refurbished it w/ a new filter, lights, etc.) Thanks again! Lisa

Re: Sick Gramma? Thank you very much for your advice. I read your section on quarantining and I have a few questions about it. 1) My book recommends removing all of the fish for at least a week to remove the hosts. Should I follow this recommendation and put them in the treatment tank? If so, can I pull them out after 1 week, or should I keep them in QT until the treatment is complete? I know that any sick fish must remain for a minimum 2-4 weeks, or as long as it takes to cure them. <Please re-read the Fish Disease sections on WetWebMedia.com. You should leave out fish livestock/hosts for a month> 2) No shells, right? What about flower pots? I have a feeling that my fish would be very unhappy without any places to hide, so could I put in a flower pot for some shelter? <Chemically inert materials are fine. Many people use PVC pipe, fittings> 3) Do I need to let the QT cycle before I put anything in there? If I add all of my fish at once, wouldn't that cause the ammonia to spike? I could add some of the media from my main tank's filter to the QT's filter. I'm assuming that if I add all of them I need to be using a bigger tank. <Again, please read the Quarantine article, FAQs pages: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quaranti.htm> 4) Can I mix up the SW directly in the tank or should I mix it in a bucket? Thanks again! I'm setting up an old 20 gal. tank. Lisa <Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/water4maruse.htm Bob Fenner>

Re: Tunze skimmers, Refugium and QT Thanks much for the reply and the time you spend answering questions for folks such as myself. <a pleasure> I have a few more items of concern that you might help me with. Using a refugium for a quarantine tank for new arrival's sound like a great idea, <not at all a true QT> however some sort of micron filter is in order to keep parasites, etc., out of main tank. How is this best accomplished? <holding shrimps and crabs above in the refugium is one thing for a quick fix because said detritivores were bought to early for a young tank... but quarantining fish/coral for disease is another matter. For that you will want a separate and proper QT tank> Type of filters, pump requirements, and etc. Miracle Mud is it what it supposed to be and does it do what its suppose to do? Thanks again, Rick Luckert <it is essentially a nutritive medium not very different than soil (ahem!). I personally do not subscribe to this methodology to any great extent for the average aquarists who wants to set up a garden style (mixed family) reef tank. Anthony>

Ich in a Quarantine Tank, Thank Goodness Dear Mr. Fenner, <Steven Pro this morning, part of the WWM crew.> Sorry to bother you. <No bother at all. This is why we are here.> We are fairly new to Fishkeeping and after reading your website I decided to buy your book. Which may I say wasn't as easy in the UK as I thought. It took Amazon over a month to get it! Anyway I decided to also invest in a smaller tank and use it to quarantine any fish I buy or any one that appears to have a problem. Well I think it might have just paid for itself! 10 days ago I bought a blue lined wrasse one of the flasher types I think. I put it in the other tank to leave it there for a couple of weeks. Everything seemed fine eating well and it seemed to settle in very easily. However we noticed a night ago that it appears to have white spots along back and also on the tail fins (from the pictures it appears to be ich - I think). Well until I could get some medication I decided to drop the salinity (just a small amount to start with). Well this morning all the spots appear to have gone. (does this usually happen?) <Cryptocaryon has a life cycle of about 8-24 hours. They live, breed, and die all within that short time period. So, yes you will see your fish temporarily without parasites, but that does not mean everything is ok.> Should I still get the copper and use that as well? <I prefer a more "homeopathic" treatment due to copper's problems with intestinal in fauna. Try performing a small (10-20%) water change on the quarantine tank everyday for two weeks. This vacuuming removes the parasite eggs, breaks the life cycle, and helps to promote a strong immune response in your fish. If things seem to get worse though, do not hesitate to use medication.> When its all over am I better off emptying the tank and cleaning it thoroughly before putting more water in again, <Yes, drain completely.> when I fill the tank up again should I put anything in the water to start with for the next new fish? <I assume you are asking about biological filtration and cycling the quarantine tank. I always use sponge filters and I seed them in my main tank sump, so that a healthy population of nitrifying bacteria are always on hand.> Also after the treatment whatever it is another two weeks in the quarantine tank enough? <As above, two weeks of treatment followed by another two weeks of observation.> Sorry about all the questions but our main tank and fish seem to be doing really well and I don't want to do anything that may harm the other fish. Does a fish having ich make it more susceptible to getting it again - see more questions :-) <No, they are all just as susceptible.> Thanks, Phil Andrews <You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Ich in a Quarantine Tank, Thank Goodness Follow-up Hi <Hello> Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. I've bought some medication but I'm going to go with the daily water changes to see if that helps. I'd rather try that than chemicals if I can. I don't want to loose this fish and I certainly don't want the white spot in the main tank so the wrasse is in the quarantine tank for the duration. As I said before the tank has just paid for itself! I'm just surprised everyone doesn't use one. <Me too. Think about how much money you have saved by not infecting the main tank and fish and how much easier it is to treat an animal in quarantine. I hope others learn from your post.> Thanks again, Phil <You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

I love the site! (coral quarantine, coral disease, electrical power) That is, www.wetwebmedia.com <we do too... of course, if we don't say that, Bob affects an accent like a Catholic nun and raps us across the knuckles with a wooden ruler. Anthony> Could I trouble you with a few questions that do not appear to be answered in the Quarantine FAQs? <sure...> 1) If I buy a number of pieces of coral together, from the same dealer, and probably from the same tank, can I quarantine those items TOGETHER ? On the grounds that if they have pathogens, they've ALL ALREADY got them from being together at the dealers? I realize that for FISH you want to reduce stress and not have them fighting each other, but if CORAL are well out of the reach of each other is it valid to put them in the same tank? <nope...same problem with coral...actually worse. The close confines trigger chemical receptors and escalate allelopathy (chemical warfare). It will be a truly hostile environment. It can be reduced by only tanking like organisms separately (Zoantharians, SPS, Alcyoniids, etc> 1b) Dealers connect all their tanks together, surely? Doesn't a pathogen on one fish just swim through the pipes to the next tank? <possibly, but such systems should be bare bottoms, skimmed heavy, ozonized and UV sterilized which can really produce quite good water quality of properly supported with biological filtration> And if dealers get new fish all the time, doesn't this mean that there is always a risk from a dealer that his fish have something? <more or less...yes. A fish sitting in your dealers tank is not two weeks quarantined if a new shipment of fish arrived the day before your purchase.. then you have a "One day old" fish from quarantine> Which is obviously why we quarantine, <exactly> but it just goes to show that surely a dealer who says his stock are healthy and don't need quarantining is lying, <well...lets call it selectively representing the truth (hehe... how Clintonesque)> unless he has had NO deliveries of fish at all for 2-4 weeks! <you are very intuitive indeed...seriously! I wish more fish friends thought things out this far> 2) The coral is going to be in the quarantine tank for some time. It will place a bioload on the water. I guess I can't use live rock or sand as filtration, because if the coral IS infected then so then is the rock and sand and I'd spend my whole life throwing out 'infected' sand and rock! <no not really... invertebrates are rarely plagued with contagious or pathogenic infections (although there are some nasty ones)... it is more a matter of screening for pests, predators, and nuisance organisms> Also, I guess any copper (for fish) or other medication I put in will taint the rock or kill the nitrifying bacteria. <yes...ruined> So, I guess I need a skimmer and a wet-dry filter. <a good coarse sponge filter usually works fine considering the water changes you will be doing to the QT anyway. A foam filter is under twenty dollars (for large/XL) and very efficient. Can you get a wet/dry that cheap <wink>> But must I discard the filter media after each occupant? And do I then bleach the tank and filter housing afterwards? <a nice thought...very thorough> I read the bit on your website http://www.wetwebmedia.com/clnornart.htm, but that didn't mention filter media. I would worry about chlorinating the filter media and then putting it back in my main tank sump to get all the bacteria back. Or, do I only need to CLEAN the quarantine tank if something actually got sick in there? <exactly> How DO you clean the bio media correctly, and more important, if you use a toxic cleaner, how do you get it out of the media afterwards? Is de-chlorinator really good enough? <yes...completely dechlorinates bleach,,, and not much bleach is ever necessary> Can you condition fresh bio media (with bacteria) by just throwing it in my main tank sump for a few weeks, and filling the quarantine tank with water from the main tank? <that would be fine> 3) I have had no success with Euphyllia coral. Every single other coral has been a breeze, but Euphyllia (all sorts) have just died on me, but after about 8 weeks by which time quarantine was over and it was in the main tank. After buying 3 pieces over 2 years, I stopped buying them. Why continue to kill stuff by accident? <good thinking> I think it was a protozoan, brown gunky kind of infection. <yes...they are prone to it... your suppliers were likely getting Indonesian coral.. perhaps transshipped> Anyway, someone has suggested that I use a prophylactic dose of Metronidazole the next time I quarantine some of this stuff. True or false? And how much? <not for this infection...iodine and tetracycline have had an impact on "brown jelly" infections...even freshwater dips for coral! (written about in my book and many places in the net I suppose) 4) When I move across country in about a week, I need to pack and take my two Clownfishes with me. I intend to keep them dark before packing them and to keep them separate and each in a dark bag with water and a large space above which I will fill with pure oxygen. <agreed and fast 48 hours before hand> I saw the comment about adding Hydrogen Peroxide to the shipping solutions, but decided that oxygen above would be safer. <O2 will be more than enough> Then they will each go in a padded pelican case and CAREFULLY carried by me by hand. They are each about an inch long. How much water should I put in vis a vis oxygen space? <1/3 water , 2/3 O2 or air> I was thinking of about half a gallon of each tank water, and oxygen. They will be traveling for approximately 10-12 hours, <easy move...they suffer far worse on import> and I already have a (quarantine) tank ready and warmed up for them in England. I know this is a lot of effort for two tiny fish, but they were presents! I will acclimatize them as your guerilla thingy says - Methylene blue and an airstone. <a noble effort...you sound like an admirable and intuitive aquarist> Incidentally, on the subject of UPS, I am just moving from the US to the UK where the voltage AND FREQUENCY is different. I have solved this problem for my fish tanks by purchasing a pair of SPS-2450 power supplies from Samlex (http://www.samlexamerica.com/sps2450B.htm) and a TrippLite PV2400FC Inverter. These two together will convert continuous 2400watts from 50hz to 60Hz and will deliver a peak of 4800watts, which is more than enough to power my metal halides and chiller. Best of all, the SPS-2450 come with connections for 200 Amp marine batteries, which means that the entire assembly will keep running for several hours in the case of power failure, certainly more than enough for someone to come round and turn the lights off, when it will last for DAYS. <nice tip thank you!> Thanks for a great book and website! <kind regards, Anthony>

Quarantine questions Dear Bob, A couple of quarantine questions. How long would you advise one should quarantine new livestock (fish) if using copper (SeaCure) in the quarantine tank? <Two weeks in general (most species of fishes)> Reading WetWebMedia the general recommendations seem to be two weeks to ensure no parasites are present when introduced to the main display tank. Does it have to be this long when quarantining using copper? <Does not have to be... but this is S.O.P.... anything shorter may not be enough, stipulated a "hyper" infestation present... of multiple generations.> Is it necessary to quarantine any invertebrates, not because they might die from transport, but for parasites and other diseases? If so for how long of a time (obviously without copper!)? <Variable by species... best to isolate most species, specimens for a few days for observation, allowance for "resting". Bob Fenner> Thank you very much, Patrik Fredrikson, London

Quarantine Time Period Bob, <Anthony Calfo here wondering where I am going to find a funnel cake with strawberries after midnight> I have taken my small Hippo Tang and Royal Gramma from my display tank and placed them in a separate tank to treat what we believe to be Ich. I am treating it with CopperSafe. How long should they stay in there before placing back in the main tank? <full quarantine 4 weeks... but minimum is two weeks and either way the rule is for 7 days after the last symptom is gone (assuming the fish stays clean for those seven days.> Thank-you in advance, John Kummer <quite welcome. Kindly, Anthony>

Quarantine Hi Bob, <Howdy> I purchased two fish last Friday (a small flame angel and an orange diamond goby). Based on past bad experiences and reading the daily questions on your website, I decided to quarantine the fish before placing them in any of my display tanks. I have placed them both in a 20 gallon tank with a heater, a power filter, and one powerhead, and some pvc for cover. Half the water is from one of my main tanks while the other half was new water. I took the foam insert from my 30 gallon established aquarium and put it in the powerfilter of the quarantine tank to have some bacteria to deal with ammonia and nitrite. I am also feeding them very little. <Sounds good thus far> Here is the problem. The ammonia levels are uncomfortably high for me (close to 1 ppm). <This is too high> I did a 25% water change and added some Kent Ammonia Detox (don't know if this stuff is any good). I am doing something wrong with my setup? Are the two fish too much for the 20 gallon tank. <Maybe too much for the "settled in" amount of nitrifying bacteria... I would add a bit of cured live rock...> If too much, maybe I should risk placing one of the fish in one of my main tanks or get another quarantine tank. Should I be so concerned about the ammonia levels or just let it take its course? <If concerned... I'd move the Goby first... going through a pH adjusted freshwater dip as proscribed on WetWebMedia.com enroute> Should I continue partial water changes and use of Detox? <Worth trying> Also, should I have done a pH balanced freshwater dip before I added the fish to the quarantine tank? <Yes> Would it be better to do this before adding to main tank? <Yes> Thanks a lot! Jeff J <You're welcome. Bob Fenner>

Re: quarantine (Polaris Goby) Thanks for the help. I just thought that I would let you know that unfortunately when I got up this morning I found the goby on the floor in front of the tank. I thought I had adequately anticipated this problem by sealing any openings with saran wrap. I have no idea how the fish got out. He must of really worked at. he was my new favorite too. <Rats! Yes, these fishes are amongst the greatest "escape artists". Bob Fenner>

Biological Filter in Quarantine Tank Hello Bob! Hope your Saturday has been pleasant. I have just one quick question. Because I am concerned with the water quality in my main tank (may have parasites still in some stage), I don't want to use it to jumpstart my biological filter in the quarantine tank. I am introducing a 7-member school of 2.5" Lyretail Anthias, and a 5" Sailfin (Desjardinii) tang. Would it be safe to simply run something like Amquel in the QT (along with a mechanical and chemical filtration / Chemipure) while I am getting the biological filter up and running? <Not for me> I could also use some of those pre-packaged BioZyme type products to introduce some bacteria. <Yes... do check into hobbyists opinions... Cycle (Hagen) or fresh Fritzyme (Fritz Chemical) are better regarded... I think> The LFS has said that I don't need to take everything at once, though they don't really want to hold everything for "too" long, either. As always, your insights are greatly appreciated! Thanks again. Jim Raub <Bob Fenner>

A status update, and question about quarantine Hello Bob. Even though I haven't emailed you in a bit, it doesn't seem as if your daily volume has dropped much (would this be your personal bio-load?). I sure appreciate your help and insights. <Happy to grant/share them> Before my question, a little status update. I did lose my powder blue and clarkii to the ich, and (as you may recall) because I had not quarantined those fish before introducing them, it got into my main tank. I've read your thoughts on Kick-ich and decided to go ahead and try to clear up any residual parasite infestation I may have in the tank and on the survivors (who, with the exception of one, don't appear to have any at this point). <Ah, good> I have also invested in a sub-micron filter and will be putting this on shortly, just to remove what I can in the free-floating stage. Naturally, I will not be running this continually, since I have filter feeding organisms and planktivores. I would appreciate any thoughts you might have about this, as well. <Worthwhile, agreed it can't be run continuously> Overall, I have worked to increase the stability of my reef (though I did have a short hiccup during a recent water change, and subsequently learned a great deal about the relationship between pH, Alkalinity, and Calcium!!). <Yes? Good> I hope to introduce some more livestock in the near future, and am putting my quarantine system together, now. Rather than risk there being any infectious agents in my current tank water, I'm using "from-scratch" synthetic. I will still go through the initial quick dip in the fresh-water brew, and my big question is... <Not such "quick"... better to be a few minutes "baths" as detailed, chatted about on WWM> When I place my newcomers into the quarantine tank, should I always use copper (and maybe an antibiotic) for two weeks at that point, or should I observe the fish first, to see if anything develops during that two-week window, and then treat with copper if necessary. My concerns are: a) if I start off with copper, that treatment can be a bit hard on the fish, who will already be adjusting from their previous stresses, and I would hate to kill them by having too-high levels; but b) if I don't start off with copper, the fish may be a carrier, but have enough resistance to not show any signs during the observation period. Right now, I'm leaning toward initial copper use. <Please read over the WWM site here... FAQs on marine quarantine> By the way, I have been reading what may be a bit conflicting information in some of your answers regarding RO-DI vs. RO water. I currently use RO for all my make-up and water changes, but had purchased the DI unit which attaches, and just haven't put it on, yet. My desire was to eliminate the silicates <Aspirin? Likely silicates, Si02...> over a period of time, but now I understand (partially) that the RO-DI water has some markedly different behavior due to the ratios of ions, cations, <These> and other stuff I'm going to have to remember from my college Chemistry classes. Current plan is to keep status quo 'til I understand things better, but if you had a good "overall reference" document to which you could refer me, that would be helpful, too. <Have none... wish I did... if you come across in your searching, please send this on... Would spend a while on the Net, search engines...> Bless you, once again, for your service to this community. Jim Raub <Glad to be of service, help. Be chatting. Bob Fenner>

Re: A status update, and question about quarantine Hi Again, Bob. Thanks for your quick response. I only spoke about a "quick" dip as in comparison to the multi-week quarantine. <Ah, I see> I have read your articles on quarantine, acclimation, diseases, and many, many others multiple times, and the question I have (obviously) missed (sorry for my denseness) is... <Mass over volume? No worries> Do you believe that it is (almost) always appropriate to use copper on incoming livestock before introducing them to your main tank, or should it only be used upon observation of a probable parasite? <No... as a routine I don't encourage it/copper use prophylactically> Thanks again for your patience with me. Jim Raub <And you for yours with me. Bob Fenner>

Copper Questions Hi Bob! Hope you had a good holiday season. It's pretty cold here in Indiana. What's it like in sunny CA? <Bunk, I had to put a tee shirt on this AM!> I am setting up a quarantine tank, and I just have three quick questions for you. First, is there a certain brand of copper that you prefer? <Coppersafe and Cupramine... are what I mainly use, suggest worldwide... I know the company/manufacturers and their ready distributors... ease of securing four one/gallon cases... consistency of product> I was leaning toward either Coppersafe, SeaCure or Cupramine. I want to have some on hand in case the need arises. <Good idea> Second, I read from several sources that maintaining a "therapeutic" level of copper is a good idea for a Q tank. Do you agree, and what constitutes a "therapeutic" level? <I don't agree... better to forego the use of copper in most cases... use a bath/dip instead... many animals are more sensitive to copper than "what it's worth" to intentionally poison them. Ask the folks who suggest such continuous use what they consider a "therapeutic level"... to me it/this is the same as a treatment level of free cupric ion... anything less is a sub-therapeutic concentration... does no good, some harm. Please see the many "copper" sections on WetWebMedia.com> Finally, would a small power filter (hang on) be adequate filtration for a 10 gallon Q tank? <Should be... do add some extra aeration depending on bio-load...> Thanks for you help! Dave

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