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FAQs about the Imperator Angel Genetic Disease

FAQs on Emperor Angel Health: Emperor Disease 1, Emperor Disease 2, Emperor Health 3, Emperor Health 4, Emperor Health 5,
FAQs on Emperor Angel Health by Category: Diagnosis, Environmental, Nutritional, Pathogenic (see also:
Angels and Butterflyfishes & Crypt), Social, Trauma, Treatments

Related Articles: Imperator Angels, Pomacanthus Angels, Marine Angelfishes

Related FAQs: Emperor Angels 1Emperor Angels 2, Emperor Angels 3, Emperor Angel ID, Emperor Behavior, Emperor Compatibility, Emperor Angel Selection, Emperor Angel Systems, Emperor Feeding, Marine Angelfishes In General, Selection, Behavior, Compatibility, Health, Feeding, Disease,  

 

Angelfishes for  Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care
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by Robert (Bob) Fenner
Emperor Angel, Sel. - 03/10/08 Good Evening Crew, <Steven> I have a question regarding location for Imperator angels. Are the Imperators from the Christmas Islands more desirable than from other locations? <Mmm, yes... than most all other common sources... e.g. the Philippines and Indonesia... though not as desirable by far as the same species out of the Red Sea...> There is about $100 premium being asked for about the same size angel, only one has an orange colored tail and is from Xmas Island. Your thoughts / comments are much appreciated. And as always thanks for what you do. Best regards, Steven <See WWM re this species Selection. Bob Fenner>

Re: Emperor Angel sel.  03/11/2008 Crew (Bob), Thanks for your email. Would you then concur that Xmas Island is more desirable then Central Pacific & Eastern / South Asia. <In general, yes> How would you rate specimens from Xmas Island, Australia and Red Sea? <The Red Sea highest... the other locales about equal... more to do with discerning individual specimens> There is quite a difference in price depending on region and I want my chances to be the best they can if a premium is substantiated based on where collected. Many thanks on your response. Best regards, Steven <Welcome. BobF>

Re: Emperor Angel, sel.   3/12/08 Bob, <Steve a reeno> Many thanks again. One more question.... I promise! I did purchase today a Imperator from Aquacon from the New Caledonia region. From speaking to the folks at Marine Depot Live, Aquacon, and Marine Center, the regions of the Red Sea as well as New Caledonia rarely see any of these angels caught in less than 6" range. The one I bought from Aquacon is quite large, however I spoke to the owner and he indicated they have had this fish in quarantine for a little over a month and the fish is eating well and seems to have acclimated to aquarium life. I have acclimated fish previously using the float, drip, test and if OK then net and release. With this being as large of a fish (much larger than the other fish I have acclimated), I am afraid of the amount of ammonia that will be present, as well as the lowered PH level. Would you recommend a small drop of Amquel+ after floating the bag and then a drip procedure, or stabilize temperature, net and introduce. <Mmm... depends on the apparent health... have you read my pieces on acclimating marines on WWM?> My tank has been established for several years, is 300 gallons (small weekly water changes + refugium) and house 1 moray eel, 1 Blond Naso, 1 Chevron, and 1 Orange shoulder Tang.....no new additions in over one year. Your thoughts on this size of Imperator and acclimation procedure is much appreciated. This guy (or gal) cost a pretty penny, and I want to give this fish the best chance for success. Thanks again, Steven <Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/acclimat.htm Bob Fenner>

Re: Emperor Angel -- Need help ASAP 03/15/2008 Bob (Crew) Sorry, I accidentally hit send before finished. To continue, I received the Emperor and the water was cold and bag punctured. The fish seemed rather stable however, not gilling heavily, and swimming around but not fast, kind of graceful. I acclimated using a drip method after a few drops of Amquel+ trying to get temp. and PH stable. The PH was low (low 7's) so after a while the temp. was warmer and I introduced very gently, very smooth transition no trauma transitioning from holding container to tank. First night with lights off he grazed on the few pieces of live rock in the transition tank and was swimming curiously looking at new surroundings. Water -- no detectable ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates, SG 1.021, PH 8.4. He did not eat, but not unusual for first day. Day two, he still was curiously swimming around picking at live rock. Tonight he darted around very fast and seemed to have squeezed out something from his anus...looks like two large loops of spaghetti (maybe intestines?). One loop looks to have a red crusted something attached to it. Does not look like parasite or worm...too thick I think for this, looks like organ to me. Any suggestions or immediate help is greatly appreciated. <It's probably just poop attached to a hair (inadvertently swallowed) or some other stringy material. But without a picture it's hard to say for sure.> Although he arrived with a punctured bag and rather cold water, he seemed very stable with normal apparent gill movement and grazing on live rock...good color too. I was hoping he would pull through but not sure here. If the situation is futile please let me know how to mercifully handle this situation. <Oy, no need to panic just yet I don't think. Generally, there's an expression used in teaching human doctors about diagnosis, it goes something like "when you hear hooves, think horses, not zebras." The same might apply to fish health too... if the fish seems generally healthy, chances are that anything coming out of its anus is just poop. If it were expelling its organs, I imagine it would not appear to be swimming or breathing normally. But do see if you can get him to eat something.> Hoping for the best. Steven <Best, Sara M.>

Re: Emperor Angel -- Need help ASAP 03/16/08 Sara, Thanks for your very quick reply. I don't want to stress the fish with a camera flash but might take a picture tomorrow AM. I am not sure about this being "poop". There are two loops not strings that came out of the anus. The loops are about the diameter of spaghetti and look exactly the same (symmetrical) in nature. I will be patient and observe, but something tells me these are supposed to be inside this fish. These loops are approx. 1/2" in length, they exit the anus and loop right back in and are a dull white color. <Interesting... but I still can't think of any condition or parasite that would cause a fish to expel organs from its anus (that wouldn't be completely debilitating the fish). To me it still sounds like the fish ate something it couldn't digest. But I suppose, it's conceivable that if the fish had an intestinal worm that died for some reason, it would get expelled this way. But I don't know. I'm sure a picture would help. And I do hope Bob or another crew member has more insight into this...> Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Regards, Steven <Best, Sara M.>

Re: Emperor Angel -- Need help ASAP 03/16/08 Sara (Crew), Update as of this AM. The two loops were completely expelled. <excellent> The whole time the Emperor seemed to swim normal, continuing to graze on live rock, and peaceful. The two loops that came out are exactly the same length each (approx. 1.5" circles). They sank to the bottom of the tank and were of no interest to the other fish, which told me these may not be organic in nature. My fish tank is quite tall, but I have a long instrument that I could reach the two pieces so I pulled them out. THESE TWO FLEXIBLE CIRCLES ARE RUBBER BANDS!!! It seems they must have been from the shipping bags either in transit to the retailer or in transit to me. <Hehe! I thought it must be something like this. I almost even suggested rubber bands, but I couldn't believe a fish would accidentally eat those. But I guess it happens!> Emergency over. You were correct...something he ingested. <Yep, but I'm much too mature to say "I told you so." ;-)> Thanks again, Steven <I'm happy for you, the fish. I hope all continues to go well. Best, Sara M.>

Emperor Acclimation  - 01/09/2006 This is my third emperor in about 4 months.   The  first two were teeny tiny juv.s (about an inch long)   <Too small to start... shame on the collectors> this one is  probably twice that size,  maybe a little more.  I thought a slightly  older one might get over whatever am missing. <Better at 3-4 inches overall length>   Its starting off in a  30 gallon fish only ( yes I know,  please don't hurt me! ) <You will do this yourself>   Its  tankmates are 3 cinnamon clowns and a bi-color blenny. <Too small a volume. I hope they are leaving the angel alone>   The first two  days after getting him home he seemed fine, swimming around picking at the  rocks etc.  But now after a few days, and like the last two he is staying at the top,   not moving two much.  His breathing seems  normal,   his fins seem fine, coloration gets white and blotchy  occasionally, but from what I've read here,   and what I can see,   probably cause he isn't happy about something.   <Like your grammar> I did probably about a 10%  water change,  maybe a little more.  My readings all "appear "normal,  ammonia and nitrite at 0.0 and my nitrate at 10,  is that normal? <Mmm, okay, normal> I have to admit that my biggest success at saltwater was a  panther grouper who got to about 6 or 7 inches from 1. <A very hardy aquarium species>   Though I read  they are the Oscars of saltwater fish. <An apt comparison> Back to the angel, ( sorry I have  that a.d.d thing )   <Ahh, I have other shortcomings, not quite so popular> I have halfheartedly attempted feeding him  different things,  but if he isn't well that would be hard to get him to  do? <Yes... or too stressed... I would not place a Pomacanthus angel in such a small system, with other fishes as you list...> Eat I mean.  Right now I have the lights off in the tank and my  fingers crossed.   What have I done? If you can possibly tell from  this incoherent rambling email. <Please take a read re our Emperor Angel materials: http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/imperator.htm and the linked files above. You can avoid mistakes with the knowledge archived there. Bob Fenner>

Emperor with Tumor Bob, I am the guy that wrote to you recently on the Emperor with the mouth tumor (9" Red Sea, on Oxytetracycline food), subsequent to your recent Q&A covering the very same subject. I dared accept the challenge. My son and I caught him, placed him in a five gallon bucket with aquarium water, prepared "Dip Away" solution, and cleaned several small utensils such as tweezers, knives, etc with alcohol. My son held him as I plucked slowly the tumor in multiple pieces. We dipped him in the Dip Away solution and placed him back in the main system. Well, he is doing great so far (about four or five days now). He is eating like a pig. No signs of any infections. I did leave a small stump as I was afraid to accidentally cut his mouth if over trimming. Do you think this  will be OK? <I'm hopeful...> Should I have taken it all off and chanced more damage?  <Hard to state... there are trade-offs, compromises...> My guess is he will be just fine given the results to date. What are you additional thoughts? <None worth positing here... congratulations> Thanks for the great advice. Regards, Carlos >> <You're welcome, Bob Fenner>

Emperor Problem Bob, I have a 9" Red Sea Emperor Angel with the same identical problem you note on today's Q and A. He has had it on the lower part of the inside of his mouth since I bought him (over a year ago) and always stayed the same size. It has shades of white, black and even red. It only seems to bother him in the sense he is selective in eating smaller bits of food but continues to have a great appetite. Two weeks ago, it suddenly erupted into many more "chunks".  I dipped him three consecutive days in Aquatronics Dip Away for 4-5 minutes and one of those times, he expulsed a chunk of one into the water when placed back in the main tank. It looked like a tumor with evidence of some blood where it was attached. It has improved but not gone away completely. I have been feeding him Oxytetracycline (so I have been told) food which he seems to enjoy. Do you really think I should mess with trimming this "thing" out of his mouth? It is something I actually considered but chickened out of.  After all, it is only about $300 to $400 to replace this prize fish. How would you address the possibility of an infection after the removal? I have a 225 tank which will be very expensive to treat with antibiotics and he is much to big for a hospital tank. Will the "Oxytetracycline?" prevent the possibility of an infection? It is really interesting to hear this is not as an uncommon problem as I thought it might be. Thanks for all the help. I really enjoy the column. Regards, Carlos >> Thank you for writing so lucidly... Yes, there is a fine line between "just waiting", hoping that such tumors will solve themselves... and going so far as to effect a surgery... If the animal ceases feeding, your hand may be forced to the latter... Secondary infection is a real concern in exposing a fish through this sort of manipulation... and is best dealt with through oral administration (feeding), and/or injection of appropriate antibiotics... And of the broad-spectrum, gram-negatives, Oxytetracycline is often used in foods... If you have enough "emotionally invested" in this animal, I would check with a local veterinarian who has some background with fishes (call and ask around, other vets know who these folks are in your area), and have them assist you in the actual surgery and injection of an appropriate amount, type of antibiotic. They are welcome to contact me re the last for opinions. Bob Fenner
Re: Problems with my Emperor Angel
Thanks for the advise. Today, I also noticed that the two front fins and the black area of the body, where the fins attach, seem to have cloudy patches on them. He also seems to be hiding more than normal, although he ate normally today. I am getting worried now and think I should take him out and put him in a hospital tank?  <I wouldn't move this animal... look to improving, keeping the present environment... moving it at this point is very stressful> What do you recommend for treatment?  <Zip, nada, nothing> I am kind of new at this and hope I don't do anything wrong! About your reply, I am kind of confused about gas solubility, I have two Rio 1700's for circulation. Is enough?  <Circulation is not equivalent to gas solubility, exchange... air stones, air intakes on your powerheads should be employed if there is any doubt of saturation> Also how do I go about getting macro-algae?  <Order them and place them... in the main tank, a lighted sump, or both> I thought that was something that came when you get live rock, which I can't get here? <?> Is Ogo a form of macro-algae, or fish food?  <Both> And finally, I have a porcupine puffer, will he try and eat the cleaner shrimp if I were to put them in? <Assuredly> Thanks again for the speedy response. I don't get much help here from the LFS. >> <Then seek to help THEM... are you on the Big Island (call Mr. Stokely), on Oahu? Call Randy Fernley at Coral Fish Hawai'i... tell them I sent you...> Bob Fenner>

Angelfishes for  Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care
New eBook on Amazon: Available here
New Print Book on Create Space: Available here

by Robert (Bob) Fenner
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