Freshwater turtle help. YBS, brumation         4/21/16 Each time I've done a search online I've come up with your site, so not sure if it's okay i seek help here or not. Our two turtles live together and are not in an aquarium but rather have been in tubs with covers that they've continuously outgrown. I'll attach a couple of small pics to add colour :o) Facts: 4 year old yellow -bellied slider (loc. Italy in climate sim. to California) Went into a type of brumation in November 2015 - still having trouble getting it to wake /eat. (if I hold him he moves about with force to get out of being held) Tom (name) did not eat at all, but the other one did the entire time. Tom however preferred to sleep/walk about occasionally and just stay on it's own. I kept him out of water a bit but in the bathroom floor and perhaps I've given him a cold/flu from perhaps a drafty area while out of water. I had read turtles like to stay out of water occasionally during this time, so each few days I put him in long enough to rehydrate (bottoms up :o) and swim a bit. This lasted until about March. He wheezed a bit on and off during the winter but it was slight so I didn't worry about it. He (or she) also had swollen eyes at some point but they seem to come and go so I didn't think it was a vit. a def. as it was more so when tom was out of the water. NOW - he's not eating so that's 5 months without food, isn't listless per se but in water does not float and just goes to the bottom to hide. They have an outdoor tank (rabbit cage/plastic bottom) that i put them in on a sunny day to get their vitamins, I also did this in the winter as I have for past 4 years without problem, only for a few hours at the heat of the day and not on a windy day. IN summary Not eating, eye scratching with forearms a lightish coloured spot on his head not floating if I put him in the bathtub of warm water (as always been happy to be on bottom, not a swimmer per se, normally walks slowly even in water) sneezing or coughing under the water on and off (i have video of this which could send via drop box if you like) bubbles coming out of nose or mouth sometimes, when in water a weird flicking/jerking of the head to the left or the right from time to time. For the past 10 days I 've had him in inside in a small plastic tub keeping him contained and alone, with a small water heater that heats the water 2 degrees more. Therm. reads about 22 - 25, so that would be about mid 70s. But for me it feels fresh to the touch, not warm like a bath I'd want to enter. I thought it needed to be 70 degrees to eat and about 80 to get better, so perhaps it's not hot enough. There appears no changes in him and I worry that one day I'll just find him not moving at all b/c he starved to death. I'm fairly sure he has a RTI /eye issue but how to treat and what to do is beyond me. I contacted an exotic pet vet but she was an hour away and wanted 100 euro just to look at it or tell me anything, so i declined to try other avenues first. I hope this is the right avenue . I thought this would be a short email, so sorry - so much for being brief :o) I look forward to any help you could offer me Sincerely, Anne Medcalf Imperia, Italy PS ( i read various posts on your site re illness etc. esp. the sleeping one late 2015. ) <Brumation can be a problem because, as you essentially said, too awake to sleep but too asleep to eat. The real concern is not eating, by the way. Our concern for brumation is that there is food in his stomach that is rotting instead of being digested. The treatment is pretty simple: Dry-docking. Get him somewhere warm and dry were the temperature is around 32(c) 24 hours a day. Let his entire body warm up and get his metabolism into motion again. Same treatment as if he was otherwise sick (dry-dock, UV lights and a short bath each day) and let's see how he's doing after a week> < http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/treating%20RES%20Dis%20DarrelB.htm  <

Yellow Bellied slider in Italy       10/30/15 Hello, I read your suggested pages and wonder if this is part of early brumation process or a sick eye from the lack of Vit. a you talk about. This turtle (one of two) is 3 years old now, and kept in water in the bath at night and a 6" deep tank outside in the day where he/she gets full sun or shade as it chooses. For now we're experiencing temps of 50s at night and about 60 to 70 in the day. I saw this red swollen eye problem in march last year and just presumed it was part of the brumation, but now am wondering if it's the illness. here is a photo from last year which is the same as one eye that has begun closing now again. I've never had any success getting any greens into them. They turn up their nose at lettuce/tomato/veg in general. I've not tried plants though - would I get them from a fish store? Thank you in advance and I appreciate any help you may be able to offer me. Anne <Hello Anne. Turtles rarely, if ever, hibernate or brumate successfully in captivity. As you may know, hibernating tortoises (i.e., terrestrial turtles) in Europe is difficult and requires precise understanding of diet and healthy body weight. Get these wrong and the animal will surely die. Fortunately, it almost never arises with aquatic turtles because the conditions indoors don't match those in the wild. It isn't cold enough for a start, and there aren't the sorts of burrows or muddy substrates the animals would naturally use. So when you see an aquatic turtle becoming torpid, it's almost always a problem that needs investigating. I'd have you read this article first: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/turteyedisart.htm I'd then have you read here, scrolling down to the section on Swollen Eyes: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/treating%20RES%20Dis%20DarrelB.htm

Re: Yellow Bellied slider in Italy       10/30/15 okay thank you - I thought they were getting the vit. a from their dried shrimp, dried fish or fresh/cooked meats (pork/chicken/beef). My bad. <Not bad as such, but easily overlooked. Meaty foods are not the major source of food for these animals in the wild. Plants are, and to some extent carrion as well. Good quality Koi pellets are an excellent staple, together with clumps of cheap pond weed (Egeria or Elodea type things). Bits of meaty food once a week are fine, but don't go wild, and do remember that shrimps and mussels especially contain thiaminase, which causes real problems for reptiles. Cockles are better, as are slivers of white fish fillet. NEVER use mammal or bird meats. Too much fat. Beefheart is the exception, but VERY sparingly.> So the swollen eye is indeed a lack in its diet. I will read what you suggested and thank you again - i don't need to keep one separated from the other do i? <Should be fine together if they cohabit well. Turtles can be aggressive, so use your common sense, observe how they interact, and act accordingly. Cheers, Neale.> Re: Yellow Bellied slider in Italy       10/30/15 thanks a lot Neale, I appreciate your insight and will check out if shops sell some weed ( so to speak) <Real good. Cheers, Neale.>

Red Eared Slider; hibernating... beh.       1/28/15
Hi!
<Hello Andi,>
I have a red eared slider. Male I believe. About 8 yrs old. This year he seemed sluggish and the pet store said he was probably hibernating. But he's never done that.
<Indeed. The pet store are talking rubbish. Sliders can become torpid if exposed to prolonged cold, but in captivity this is invariably fatal. So it should never, ever be allowed to happen. Even in the wild their mortality rate is high during winter, particularly for yearlings. Assuming you have a heat lamp over the basking rock, your Slider should never become torpid.
Reptiles are normally very good at maintaining a proper body temperature by alternately warming up under the heat lamp and cooling down in the water.
Fun fact: like other reptiles, turtles can't hibernate. Hibernation implies a controlled lowering of metabolic rate, which reptiles can't do; it's a mammalian trick necessary because mammals have insane energy demands that many species simply can't satisfy in the colder parts of the world during winter. Rather, reptiles allow they metabolic rate to decrease as their
environment cools down, even finding steadily cool places to rest so they're kept consistently cool (rather than frigid) through the winter period (mud at the bottom of a pond, for example, essentially going without air for months!). In any case, reptiles need to eat a bit more than normal before this resting phase (technically called brumation) because they must have a very specific amount of fat stored up before wintertime, otherwise they starve. The size/weight of a tortoise before brumation is quite well understood, it's called the Jackson Ratio, but for Sliders this simply isn't known well enough to be safe. Hence, we don't allow Sliders to rest during the winter. We keep them warm all 12 months of the year!>
Also noticed some excessive shedding on his back left foot. So I put him in a dry tank. I take him out once a day to a small feeding tank. I put Betadine on him for two weeks to kill any potential fungus/bacteria. I now think he's hibernating in the dry tank.
<Nope.>
He wants to craw under the papers and towels. He is sleepy and slow to react when I get him up.
<This is worrying. When turtles become sluggish in captivity, it's usually a sign of a metabolic problem. May be as simple as not enough warmth. Check the air temperature under the basking spot and also make sure the heat lamp is working. But more serious problems could be lack of UV-B (a good "next thing to tick off" because it's a common cause of reptile health problems); a bacterial infection that needs antibiotics; or a diet that's chronically lacking in some essential nutrient such as calcium. So if you're sure the turtle isn't chilled, call a vet, because they're really the only people who can diagnose lethargy/sluggishness problems with reptiles, and often the only people who can provide the treatment (vitamin shots, antibiotics).>
I do have a UV and heat light on.
What to do????
thank you,
- Andi
<Most welcome. Neale. Have cc'ed to Darrel, our turtle expert, in case I've missed anything.>
Re: Red Eared Slider      1/28/15
Thank you :)
<Most welcome.>

my turtles are mating & it's Oct.    10/14/13
Hi, I have a female red slider The male is yellow, I know that they will inter breed but it is oct. I got the pair from my niece this summer she has had them for six years. I built them a habitat outside. ( we live in no. cal.) They have a pond that is 10' by 5' 3' deep, they are fenced in & we have a cover for night to keep them safe. they have been in it for 3days.
This morning I went to uncover them & they were attached. Should I be concerned by the time of year? Should I set up a nesting box. Should I not Hybernate them ?
What to do...
thank you
Erin Johnson
<Hello Erin. So far as turtles mating goes, provided the female can get away from the male when she wants too, then no harm done. If she can't get some peace and quiet, then yes, constantly being with an amorous male turtle will "wear her down" and potentially cause stress-related problems.
Now, in the UK it is universally recommended that casual hobbyists don't hibernate turtles kept outdoors. Instead, the advice is always to bring them indoors. Why? Because unless a turtle has the right amount of fat before it hibernates, it will die. Estimating the weight of a turtle ready to hibernate depends upon various factors; with tortoises (what Brits and Australians call the land-based turtles) the calculation is called the "Jackson Ratio" and you can find out about it online. There's presumably something similar for aquatic freshwater turtles (what here in England are called terrapins). Do also understand that turtles don't hibernate in snow or ice! They would naturally dig some sort of appropriate burrow, in many cases in the bottom of the ponds, actually under the water! During their winter sleep they are (amazingly!) able to absorb enough oxygen from the water to survive -- assuming the water isn't too warm (so using pond heaters isn't a good idea) but also assuming the water isn't too cold (if the pond freezes solid, then it's death for the turtle). It's all very complicated, but in the wild, turtles select their winter quarters carefully, but even so, mortality is very high, especially among young turtles hatched that year. Anyway, without a shadow of a doubt the safest approach is to create an indoor enclosure you can use from the time air temperature sinks below, say, 10 C/50 F. In spring, once all risk of frost has passed, you can release them back into the pond. Since this is a temporary enclose, a very basic (and inexpensive) system can be created; see here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/RESCareBarton.htm
Hope this helps. Cheers, Neale (cc'ed Darrel and Sue, our turtle experts).>
Re: my turtles are mating & it's Oct.    10/14/13
I couldn't add a thing to what Neale said!
Well done!!
D
<Thank you both. B>

Eastern Painted Turtle question, sys., overwintering       4/11/13
Hi,
I acquired a baby Eastern Painted turtle last summer while on a trip to CT.
It spent the summer in my outdoor 1200 gal. pond, but I brought him in before winter. He has been living in a 20 gal. aquarium with filter, heater and basking light in my basement. I want to re-introduce him into the pond but I am not sure how to go about it. Do I put him back in when the pond water reaches a certain temperature? I would appreciate any help you could give me.
Thanks,
Vanessa
<Painted Turtles (Chrysemys picta) do naturally inhabit places that sometimes get quite cool, even frosty, though they do best (are most common) in warm temperate to subtropical environments. So, the short answer to this is "it depends on where you live". Assuming you live somewhere that's cool temperate, in other words where summers are warm but winters cold, often frosty or snowy, then you will probably want to save putting this little chap out until late spring when all risk of frost has passed and the days have become substantially longer than the nights, so air temperature at night doesn't drop too low. Basically, from around May through to September is going to be about right. My understanding is that it's air temperature that matters, not water temperature -- turtles and terrapins warm up on land, and then go into the water to cool down (or at
least, being cooled down while they're foraging or whatever). So, provided daytime air temperature is around 18 C/64 F and nights aren't very much cooler than that, your turtle will deal with whatever the water temperature in the pond might be. I've cc'ed this to our resident turtle expert Darrel, so if I've missed something, I'm sure he'll chip in! Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Eastern Painted Turtle question      4/11/13
Neale,
Thanks so much, you have been a big help. We live in central Illinois where we do get some harsh winters, thus the decision to overwinter him inside.
<Sounds very wise.>
This at least gives me some direction, thanks again.
Vanessa
<Glad to be of help! Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Eastern Painted Turtle question     4/12/13
The only things I'd add are these:
First, when moving a turtle in and out of protected enclosures they changes are more sudden that when nature does it, so the turtle's metabolism has a hard time keeping up.  What concerns me is when we move our turtles outside a little too soon - when the days are starting to warm and the nights begin to be wild ... the turtle adapts very well -- and then we have a cold spell for 5 or 6 days.. a slight relapse of winter, you might say... can be very hard on the turtle.  Perhaps he's eaten a full meal and now with the cold, the food just sits there in his stomach starting to rot.    For this reason I usually wait until we can "count on" Spring weather.  Later rather than earlier.
Second, when we change their surroundings so abruptly, it often causes them to be a bit unsettled and they can respond to this with what I can "walk-abouts."   They simply LEAVE.   Many years I think I've "lost" a turtle, only to find that a year earlier when he left, he'd walked to a quiet corner and buried himself at the base of a bush.  So it's best if the pond area is enclosed or fenced in some way.
Regards
D
Re: Eastern Painted Turtle question    4/12/13
The only things I'd add are these:
<<Thank your Darrel for this/these additions. Cheers, Neale.>>