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Please help Two Puffer fish are dying... No data, using
"fixes".... the high price of...
3/27/14 Puffy skin on puff 2/17/09 Hi, I have noticed on quite a few occasions recently a disease which the puffer fishes skin looks bruised or sometimes lighter in color ( I would give more specific parameters but three of the instances are in different systems). The most recent is overnight the skin becomes bruised/necrotic starting from the mouth and slowly moving across its face to the tail. parameters for this particular instant are nitrate 20ppm, nitrite 0 ppm, ammonia 0 ppm, pH.. 8.2 salinity 1.023. <A picture would have been helpful, as would information on species and what they were fed. Spreading discolorations can be related to lethal Vibrio infections (bacterial) that need to be treated in a separate tank with antibiotics such as Maracyn Two (It's less likely the normal Maracyn would work, only worth a try if Maracyn Two fails). They can mostly be avoided by enriching the food with vitamins. Good luck. Marco.> - Labored Breathing from Puffer - Jason's go Hi Everyone,
I am completely perplexed about this one. You guys have been a HUGE
help to me before so I figured I'd write. I've had this
particular green spotted puffer for about 3.5 years. I've written
before about him in terms of acclimatizing him to full marine about 3
years ago. I did so with Bob's advise very
successfully. He and his other puffer buddy have been
thriving in my 72 and now scaled back 45 gallon marine setup for the
past 3 years. The setup is 3 years old. Sorry for the length
of the email but I wanted to provide some background. <Much
appreciated.> I noticed late last week that he was not himself.
He's usually extremely sociable and full of energy. He was very
quiet and I noticed that his breathing was a bit labored. Water
parameters are normal (see parameter specifics below) and everyone else
in the tank is normal (2nd puffer, goby, maroon clown). I decided to
give him a fresh water dip and buffered the ph and temperature in the
fresh water accordingly (I also consulted the Conscientious Marine
Aquarist for reference - so thanks again) and at that point decided to
quarantine him in my hospital tank (well maintained and seeded with
water from the main system, no substrate, power head, filter
(polywool/charcoal), heater, no chemically reactive items just a flower
pot as directed previously by Bob - see specs below). He doesn't
seem to be getting any better. His breathing is still very labored.
I'm not sure what to do, he's an amazing fish and I'm
terrified of losing him. Wondering if anyone might be able to offer
some advise. He's been pretty lethargic, hasn't eaten in about
3 days (that I can tell) and he's hanging around near the top of
the tank (which I know can be from lack of oxygen in the
water)...but I've got a power head running for airflow
and the temperature is normal so I'm not sure what to do. Any
ideas? <Not really... your water tests look pretty good. Would just
continue on your path and try to offer some foods it might find
interesting. I'm not certain on the life span of these fish, but
it's possible that this fish has reached the end of his. I'd
prefer to think though that this is not the case and that the fish is
just working something out.> It doesn't seem to be parasitic
from what I can tell. He's not flicking, or having any other
tell-tale signs that I'm familiar with. Should I medicate with
Copper safe? <I wouldn't.> Should I lower the salinity?
<You may want to try this.> temperature? <Is pretty good where
it is.> Should we ride it out in quarantine? <I would.>
He's been in there 3 days. I'll keep him there until he shows
some improvement for at least more than a week. Could this be old age?
<Is my thinking.> How long to puffers generally live? <I'm
pretty sure it is close to a decade... but am not certain.> Any
thoughts on getting him to eat (I alternate their food between the
following: homemade (per the recipe in Conscientious marine aquarist),
Krill, Nori and finely chopped raw shrimp now and then) There
haven't been any changes to the home system since I moved 6 months
ago. Any ideas? <I wish I had some... I will put a copy of your
email in our resident puffer specialist's inbox in hopes that
she'll see it and respond.> Any help would be so wonderful, my
fear is that he's running out of time. Thank you so much. -Amy Main
tank PH - 8.2 Salinity - 1.025 Temp -approximately 78
degrees Ammonia - 0 Nitrites & Nitrates - 0 Phosphates - 0 Hospital
Tank PH - 8.2 Salinity - 1.025 Temp - 79 degrees Ammonia - 0 Nitrites
& Nitrates - 0 Phosphates - 0 <Cheers, J -- > Sick Porcupine Puffers? 9/20/04 <Hi, Pufferpunk here> Hi, I have 3 porcupine puffers and I was feeding them frozen shrimp and live boxer shrimp. The other day I decided to give them a change and bought live glass shrimp and frozen marine food. I gave them some last night and now this morning the 3 of them are on the floor of the tank panting for air and they are not swimming, just laying there breathing heavy, like they are struggling to breathe. What could I do? Please help! Thank you Candy <It sounds to me like your system may have crashed, due to over feeding. Test your water for ammonia, nitrItes, nitrAtes & pH, then do a 50% water change. How large is the tank? How long has it been set up? How big is the tank & puffers? Any tank mates? Get back with all this info & we'll see if we can help. ~PP> Puffer Has Sore Mouth 4/26/04 <Hi, Pufferpunk
here> We recently got a salt water puffa fish (not sure what
type - looks like a tiger puffa). He has started running his mouth up
and down the glass of the tank, and now has a cut just under his mouth.
Any ideas why he would be doing this, and how we get him to stop?
<The 1st thing you need to do is ID your puffer. Look here: http://tekipaki.jp/~puffer/
Another thing I need from you is water parameters: ammonia, nitrIte,
nitrAte, pH, SG. How heavily is your tank decorated? Puffers are
intelligent, curious fish that need a heavily decorated tank with lots
of places to explore. Otherwise, it gets bored & swims up &
down the glass, like yours is doing. It can also be a sign of stress.
Is it eating? What are you feeding it? Any tank mates?> Thanks
for your help, Brendan and Angela <Answer all my
questions & I'll see if I can help. ~PP> Puffer "lump disease" (04/21/03) <Ananda here tonight. Teresa posted this on the WetWeb chat forums, in the 911 forum, and I replied to it there. I am posting this to the WWM Dailies as a message and warning to others....> I recently purchased a medium/large dog faced puffer (maybe 7 inches in length) he looked a little depressed at the LFS and has had a difficult time encouraging him to eat. Otherwise he perked up considerably in our 125 gallon tank. 48 hours later I noticed what looked liked nickel sized lumps on the top outer sides of his head. They did not look enflamed and I actually had to think whether they had been there before and if it was just natural on him. I came home from work that afternoon and those nickel sized lumps had increased in size a little but worst yet they seem like open wounds now with little tendrils of white stuff coming off the top. As well there is a large rings outlined around each of the lumps. The inner part of the outline is very dark (darker than normal skin tone) the ring itself is lighter than his normal coloration and outside of that is normal. He is also breathing heavily and still not really eating. I have an emergency tank set up but have no idea what to treat him with. Any ideas would help. Teresa <Teresa's puffer died. By the time she got the puffer, it was beyond help. I talked to Kelly the Puffer Queen, and she said there was nothing Teresa could have done to help this puffer. Unfortunately, the story didn't end there. Teresa has since lost a valentini puffer that was in the same tank. The bacteria that causes this disease can live and thrive in the tank substrate, and get passed to other puffers that might sit on the substrate -- as many puffers will do after a good meal. We are really hoping that her porcupine puffer has not caught this yet. I have suggested that Teresa quarantine her remaining fish and live rock -- separate tanks for the puffer, the other fish, and the live rock! I have suggested that she sterilize her tank and substrate. After a lot of work, and a lot more time, she might get her tank back to where it was a week ago. A plea to all who read this: never, ever buy a sick fish, or a fish that is not eating, or bring it home to your display tank. Always, ALWAYS quarantine. The fishes you save may be your own long-term companions. --Ananda> Cotton spots? (03/18/03) <Ananda here this morning...> our porcupine puffer "gizmo" has little white, cotton like spots on his eyes. we're not sure if this is common. he doesn't act any different but this is something that we are concerned. please help! thanks <Sounds like it might be Ich. Do check out the articles on dealing with same, starting here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasiti.htm and with FAQs linked here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm -- and also the articles on dealing with puffers and catching/moving them, starting here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/puffers.htm ...Also check your water quality and do a water change if you have any ammonia or nitrites, or if your nitrates are over 20 or so. --Ananda> Blue Spotted Puffer - Eye Issues I have had this blue spotted puffer in my tank for about 3 to 4 weeks now. About 4 days ago, before I left, she seemed to be hanging around the bottom of the tank, not so active. The day before she was fine, so I thought maybe just a today thing. I came back, after being gone for four days (my brother fed them while I was gone just like usual), and now she is just sitting on the bottom and appears to be breathing hard. But the issue is with her eyes. They look like they have these white puss tubes sticking out of them. I can see the eye behind them, but it looks like you can pinch these things off. What is this and how do I fix it? Thanks in advance. <Are there other fishes in this system? Are they acting "funny"? I would immediately check your water chemistry and even if this "checks out" execute a good 25% water change... add aeration if you can, activated carbon in your filter flow path. Very likely what you describe is resultant from an environmental cause or causes. Best not to "treat" the symptoms you mention with "medicines", but instead improve water quality, nutrition, and wait. Please do keep us informed of your fish's status. Bob Fenner> Puffer problems? <Hi! Ananda here tonight...> Just want to say thank you in advance for any help that you can provide. We have a 90 gallon tank with 6 damsels and one starfish. I tried adding a cowfish to the community. He seemed liked he was doing very well for a couple of days. Eating and not showing any signs of stress. Upon awakening on the third day, there he was on the bottom of the tank dead. Really could see no signs of any major problems. <Eek. Possibly a water quality issue, or that your tank parameters were substantially different from the tank at the fish store.> I left the tank alone for two months and the rest of the fish were fine. So I decided to try again. Only this time with a dogface puffer. <Your tank is on the small side for this guy...> Brought him home on Saturday, was doing great on Sunday, woke up Monday and there he was on the bottom of the tank. Again no outward signs of any problems. Water quality checks out good for all the common concerns. <Hmmm. If by that you mean your pH is around 8.2, your ammonia and nitrites are zero, nitrates are twenty or less, and your tank temp is in the upper 70s, then it might be one of the less common concerns.... Have you ever used copper in the tank? Do you have a copper test kit? Do test both your tank water and your source water for copper. Both puffers and cowfish are *very* susceptible to high concentrations of copper.> Never saw any of the other fish picking on them, nor did they show signs of being bullied. I do weekly water changes of 5%, except when the cowfish died, then I did a 10%. <I would increase the rate of water change for several weeks, perhaps 10% per week or 5% twice a week.> I just wanted to know if there is something that I'm overlooking or need to know about this type of fish. I would really like to have a dogface puffer in the tank, but alive and well. Thanks again <If it isn't copper, it may be some sort of environmental pollutant has entered your tank. Does anyone in the house smoke? Have hairsprays, perfumes, pesticides, cleaning materials been used near the tank? What else is in the tank? All of those might be affecting the scaleless fish without your knowing it. --Ananda> Mystery Disease (puffer) Hi Bob, <Hi Theresa, Ananda here... I often handle the puffer questions for the WetWebMedia crew.> This is Theresa Ulrich. I don't know if you remember me, but we spoke a few times in the past. <I recognize your name from the Cowfish site...> I was hoping you could guide me on how to get information for some people in my discussion group. These people are experiencing fast die-offs of balloon puffers. Here are the systems they quote and treatments thus far. <Okay... could you send me a link to the root post of the thread?> ------------------------------- I have an aquarium maintenance biz up in Portland. Porcupine (Balloon) Puffers are very popular so I order them frequently for clients. For the last month every single Puffer I order comes in looking fine but within 3-5 days they develop a blanched area around one or both eyes that spreads rapidly and they die within a day or two. <Are there photos of this? It might help.> YIKES! HELP! I never lose fish I hate this. I know it is not a water quality issue because I have several tanks on four different filtration systems. I have tested and tried quarantining in all of them with the same results. And my wholesaler, who also has a retail store says he has had the exact same thing happen....he can't keep them alive either. <I wonder where and how these fish are being collected.> He has suggested formaldehyde...nope, no help. The usual antibiotics don't help. I don't know what I am dealing with so I don't know what else to try. Furazone? I am relatively certain that this is not injury related. Here is what leads me to that conclusion. The puffers (8 in all) were purchased over a 2 month period from 2 different suppliers, both of them very very careful with the fish. <Who/where did the suppliers get them from?> The problem does not start in the eye, rather above the "eyebrow" area always. <Hmmm. Right about where the brain is. If this illness is something that attacks the brain, that might explain the very rapid demise.> Here is the clincher. I stopped purchasing puffers all together thinking something must be going on with the Puffers at a particular collection site and I did not want to contribute to the loss of any more. <Good idea.> Two weeks went by and I took in a Balloon to "baby sit" for a client while the floors in the house were being refinished to protect their fish from chemical aerosols being used. I placed the Puffer in a tank that had previously had one of the sick Puffers in it but had sat empty a full 14 days. I also placed all of their other fish of various species in the tank. This was a perfectly healthy Puffer. No injuries...I never net and only transported about 1 mile under optimal conditions. Within 3 days the Puffer began exhibiting the same blanching of color above the eye. Within 2 days the eye turned white and the Puffer was dead despite hospitalization and antibiotic treatment. The other fish were and are fine. Same in all the other cases...only the Puffer was affected when there were fish of various other species in the same tank. I think it is some type of contagion and I would think from the behavior bacterial in nature. I have never seen anything go so fast before from on-set to death though that was bacterial??? As far as treatment I tried what my supplier recommended with the first two which was Formaldehyde at a 37% solution 1 drop per gal daily for three days with the Puffers only getting worse. Next time I tried Erythromycin 1 capsule per gal with no results continuing treatment until the Puffers died. I also mixed Erythromycin into their food until they stopped feeding. Next shipment I tried Furazone Green and triple Sulfa. The last Puffer I went so far as to give 100mg Erythromycin injection 2 times per day until loss. In all cases there was no improvement in the fish at all before death. Yes, I do also keep a copper drip on all the quarantine tanks except the invert tanks so antiparasitic agent was also being employed throughout the treatment. <Okay. So we know the bacteria or parasite can live for more than two weeks without a host. It's also specific to the porcupine puffers. It did not respond to two medications normally used to combat gram-positive bacteria, nor to an anti-microbial medication. It didn't respond to two anti-parasitic treatments -- though I usually don't suggest copper for puffers. One thing that wasn't covered is a gram-negative bacteria.> Thanks so much for taking on the dilemma. I wish I had gotten a picture for you because in 20 years and a ton of Puffers this is a brand new one on me! I was just so frantic to try and save them. ---------------------- Another member posted this link to show the progression of the disease. http://platinum.yahoo.com <There must be more to this link....> -------------- The first person indicated that her balloon puffers progressed in the same manner as the fish on the link. ------- Theresa! this is it!!! look at the pictures forwarded with this posting Gabriel found. That is exactly what keeps happening to my Balloons. A bruised or blanched looking area starting just on one side behind the eye back. ------------- Bob, I know it is hard to hard to make an exact diagnosis with a sample viewed under a microscope, but can you offer some guidance here? <I'd like to see the original thread and see what else people have tried. I'm particularly curious to know the results of any treatments that target gram-negative bacteria.> I have tried contacting public aquariums with no luck. Although some of my references indicate some possible disease scenarios that are similar to this, it doesn't account for why the disease seems specific to only the balloon puffers. <I'm not a microbiologist, nor do I play one on TV, but I've heard of things specific to a single species before.> I appreciate whatever you can do. <This has been a stumper that I've been mulling over since it turned up in my inbox. Kelly the Puffer Queen is going to be at this Saturday's meeting of the Chicago Marine Aquarium Society (www.cmas.net), so I'm going to print this out and ask her about this, too.> Thanks, Theresa Ulrich www.cowfishes.com <You're welcome. And thanks for running the cowfishes site! --Ananda> Puffer Problem Last week I purchased a Porcupine puffer for my fish only 300 litre marine tank. I have had a porcupine puffer previously with no problems whatsoever (apart from when it died of an injury). However, my new tank mate after settling in nicely and eating greedily as puffers do, overnight lost his appetite, hangs around the protein skimmer outlet, and more worryingly, both eyes are slightly swollen and opaque. <Not good> I have looked through the FAQs on puffer fish ,which is excellent by the way, and it appears that this condition is a symptom rather than an illness in its own right. <Well, usually a symptom of sub-par water quality or other environmental conditions> I don't think this is Popeye, as I've seen that with my freshwater tropical fish. I don't think its an injury either as its both eyes and his appetite has also gone. <Well, hard to be certain- but the condition seems like a bacterial infection to me> I have checked the standards, i.e. Salinity, Nitrates, Nitrites, Ammonia, and pH, and all are near perfect! I have performed a water change anyway as a precaution. Is there anything else I should be checking for? <Well, these types of symptoms usually relate to diseases, brought about through poor environmental conditions (not yours, in all likelihood!) and improper handling from the reef to the LFS. Initial quarantine, prior to placing this, or any fish in the main tank, is very critical> What exactly can cause this condition, and what can I do about it. Fresh water baths/ Medication? I had a spiny boxfish which had the same condition, and never recovered so i think i need some help! Other tankmates are: Golden Hawkfish, Flame Hawkfish, Male and female bird mouth wrasse, scooter blenny, and a fox-face rabbit. None of these guys are showing any abnormal symptoms and all get along nicely (no aggressive behaviour) Both my external filter and protein skimmer are over rated for the tank size, and there is good water flow. I have 5Kg of live rock and a marine friendly coral based substrate. Any help is welcome. Thanks in advance. Richard <Well, Richard- I'd execute a couple of freshwater dips for this guy, followed by treatment with a commercial antibiotic treatment, such as Maracyn, in a "hospital" tank. These puffers are usually pretty tough fishes, in my experience, and should respond well to rapid intervention and treatment! You may want to do a quick check on the WWM site regarding bacterial diseases, just to confirm that you're dealing with such a situation. With quick, decisive action, your fish should be okay. Good luck! Regards, Scott F> Puffer Losing His Skin? Hi, I have a porcupine puffer, he has a white spot on his right eye which looks like the skin is being eaten away, today, it has spread lower, almost to his underside , do you know what this could be or how to treat it?, The only other fish with him right now is a long-nosed butterfly, which I'm not sure is aggressive or not to have done this to him. Thanks for your help...Shelly <Well, Shelly- it's hard to be 100 percent certain from here, but it sounds like it could be either some form of fungal infection, or, quite possibly- Head And Lateral Line Erosion (HLLE). If it is HLLE, this is thought to be an environmental disease, possibly caused by degraded water quality, improper diet, or even stray voltage. I'd do a thorough check of all basic water parameters, review the fish's diet, etc. If the condition is some kind of fungal or bacterial disease, then you may want to remove the fish for possible treatment with an antibiotic, such as Maracyn (perhaps after a freshwater dip), in a separate aquarium. Before reaching any conclusions and commencing treatment, be sure to check on the wetwebmedia.com site for more information on possible diseases. Hope that this helps! Good luck! Scott F> Sick puffer Hi, Thanks for responding. <our pleasure> My puffer is a porcupine puffer and he has been ill for approx. 6 weeks. I tried to treat him with medicines in my tank, but nothing worked so I took him to my pet store where they kept him in a hospital tank for approx. 3 weeks treating him with Maracyn 2. One eye cleared up some, but the other eye did not respond. <likely from natural healing... little or no help from the antibiotic> He is now back in my 125 gallon tank with a yellow tang and a blue damsel. There are no other fish in there, only 100 lbs. of live rock. He is eating okay, but it is difficult watching him run into everything. Water quality and parameters are right on in both my tank and the hospital tank, as well as temperature. <good to hear> I am also concerned about the effectiveness of treating such a large tank or would it be necessary to remove him to another tank? <agreed... almost never treat the display... does more harm than good. Best to remove to a quite QT tank> I hope you can help. Thanks for being there to ask questions about. It is a great relief. Leanne <I am still very doubtful that this is pathogenic at all... it is clearly not a parasite, and most any bacteria would have waned or flourished after such a long time. Compound that by the very sensitive nature of puffer eyes (our archives here are filled with puffer eye FAQs) and the nature of the ailment. With that said... if we are sure it is not water quality or parasite, I'm wondering if the fish has been held captive long enough to show this symptom as an expression of a dietary deficiency? Has this puffers diet been restricted to just 2 or 3 items? Less? Just a few months on silversides or feeder fish or krill almost to exclusion causes such symptoms and deficiencies. Hmmm... do consider and send us a clear picture if you can. What big city do you live near too? I'm wondering if we cannot put you in touch with specialists in a local aquarium club or friends of ours across the nation. Best regards, Anthony> Puffer troubles Hey Guys <Whassup?> got a mystery here on my end. I have a dog face that I just adore. Boyfriend owns a pet shop that specializes in fish ( been doing it for 35 yrs.) and he has never seen this before. All the level in my tank are right on the mark all the fish seem fine. Puffer eats great... he actually looks like the Pillsbury dough boy... But he get this rash once and a while. <wow... so many jokes, so little time here> Its like an indention in his skin, odd shapes, different sizes and place with large white almost like pimples spot inside them. They are there one min. and gone the next. <the rapid appearance and disappearance of symptoms is strange. In fact, its strange enough that I would almost like to rule out a pathogenic organism (few if any can wax and wane so quickly). More likely something to do with the puffers ability to produce (sometimes copious) mucus. Still... if you are sure that this is not mucus/particle related... it may be the expression of a viral condition. Little tubercles (?)... pustules (?)... Bob, help me here... the water {among other things} is getting deep> <<I would have said about the same... not as well though. Likely viral>> My boyfriend the professional can't even figure it out. Any idea's, I love puff he the star of the tank don't know if I'm being a worry wart or not. <<Telling...>> Please get back to me if you've heard or know anything about this one. Thank a MILLION and have a super day. <thank you for caring my friend. I will copy this to Bob and beg his input as well. Best regards, Anthony> <<Antoine, this is what I would have said... plus maybe some comment re viral mediated conditions... and their variable expression re environmental input... that maybe they could boost the animal's immune system with improved water quality, nutrition. Bob Fenner> Cloudy Eye On Puffer My puffer has what I think is "cloudy eye". I don't really know. My water chem. was quite high when I discovered the problem. <By "water chem. quite high, I assume you mean something like ammonia or nitrite?> My percula clown was found dead. A day or two later, I did a 1/2 water change (55+ gallon) tank. After doing so, I noticed my puffer and clown trigger were showing sign of a slime coat and listlessness. I did a fresh water dip on both of them. I was encouraged to treat for Ich by local store owner. I used Kordon's Herbal Ich Attack. The fish seemed to be getting better. (I think the water change may have been doing it rather than the medicine.) <I think that you're right. It sounds like Ich may not have been the cause- seems a bit premature that they diagnosed Ich from those symptoms..> The medication called for removing the carbon filter. A few days after this, I lost my Trigger and blenny. I stopped treatment for Ich. <FYI- never treat in your main system...Potentially too many problems> I put my carbon filters back in and did another 1/2 water change. The last day or so, my puffer has a white bubble over one eye and the other eye looks almost normal, a little white. He has been hanging out towards the water surface. At times he seems like he is dead and floating. Other times he seems to have labored breathing. <Not a good sign...could be indicative of any number of maladies or environmental problems> Occasionally he still finds enough get up and go to do his normal jumping out of the eater. Seems to be even more so then usual. At this time, all chem. seems OK. Almost no copper existed. My puffer is quite large, about 7 inches long. I only had 6 fish in the tank, one starfish and a few snails. I don't know what to do for him, maybe "time will heal his wounds" Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks Lisa <Well, Lisa, it's hard to be certain from here, but it seems like you're dealing with some kind of bacterial infection. Immediate action needs to be taken (in a separate treatment aquarium). Do confirm what disease you are dealing with using the WetWebMedia.Com disease FAQs, then treat accordingly. Good luck! Scott F.> |
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