Copper panic... A timely lesson in the value of testing     3/17/20
Hello WWM Crew,
I've been a long time follower of this great site of yours, learned so much. And as always many thanks. I'm in a panic and I've read some FAQ about my problem but would like some reassurance. Yesterday I did my usual weekly maintenance, vacuum the sand, change filter media, floss, add a new PolyFilter in first chamber of sump after the skimmer, clean the previous PolyFilter and place it in the last chamber of sump. Then I do my water change about 22g for my 150g tank. I get home tonight and do my usual check to find my polyfilters have turned blue.
<? Interesting...>
I know that means copper.
<Mmm; not so fast w/ this assumption. Where would the copper come from? Oh, I see this below>
I checked my trash can I use for water storage to find one of the heaters was broken. The glass was intact, the coils and seal at the top were intact, it was broken off at the wires. I dumped the water that was inside the heater and black crud pour out. I had a test kit for copper and checked to find no copper reading.
<Might well have been absorbed by the Polyfilter already>
I immediately added another PolyFilter and another bag of Purigen. All fish are OK, I had 3 cleaner shrimp but can only find 2. Possibly one died.
I'm filtering water now ro/di but that will take 6hrs to filter, heat and aerate, then salt. Is there anything else I can do?
<Like the current SARS-CoV-2 virus; try to be patient. You've done all that I would have done given these circumstances>
Very stressed. Thanks in advance for your time.
Brian
<All will likely be well. Bob Fenner>
Re: Copper panic     3/17/20
Hello Bob,
Wow lightning fast. Thanks so much for your reassuring words. I feel more at ease now. What is in heaters that would cause that?
Are the coils made of copper and could leach into the water?
<Ah yes; and often the (bi-metallic) thermostats of yore, some wiring... BobF>

Re: Sailfin Tang Heavy Breathing, I2 poisoning       2/17/19
Hi Crew,
<Charles>
A much delayed update on this situation:
So I sent out my water for an ATI ICP-OES test. It came back mostly good, with one huge and one marginal out of balance parameter:
Iodine was just under 40,000 micrograms per liter, nearly 1000 times what it should be!!!!!
<?! Where did this I2 come from?>
Salinity was low - 29.76 PSU. I'm not sure this was a good measurement - I ordered pinpoint calibration solution, recalibrated my refractometer, and was still getting an SG of 1.025. Not sure why the large discrepancy.
<Mmm; well... specific gravity is NOT the same as salinity... i.e., you could have other dissolved solids that are raising the former that are not salts.>
I think it's safe to say the iodine concentration was the cause of death of my fish, as well as the decline of so many corals. I had been dosing iodine, without testing.... bad reef-keeper.
<Aye yi yi... What is my mantra here? "Never dose/add something you can't and don't measure".>
I had been dosing iodine for nearly a decade, in the same manner (automatic doser for the last couple of
years) without testing and without noticeable issues - I had been under the impression that iodine dosing was critical for crustaceans building their exoskeleton.
<Well; yes; but very little. Many, likely most folks get by with the little that comes in w/ new synthetic water changes, foods>
In the fall, I switched brands to the two little fishies iodine concentrate and adjusted my dosing accordingly (I don't recall which I was dosing before, may have been Kent). I'm not sure if something weird happened at that time, or it was just accumulating over a very long time.
Regardless, after more reading about iodine and the mixed information on the need to dose for a healthy reef, I've decided to discontinue dosing iodine altogether.
<Okay>
Now, to remedy the iodine issue, I started doing several large (30%) water changes over the course of a couple of weeks. My corals started to respond within a few days of the first water change. Still not doing great, but starting on the road to recovery. I had also gone out and bought a Red Sea iodine test kit. My first test was, of course, completely off the scale of the test kit, which only goes up to 0.09 ppm. I wasn't surprised, really, when after 4 or 5 water changes, my readings were still off the chart, since the starting concentration was so high. At this point, I sat back and considered the fact that it would take months of water changes to get the iodine under control. I finally decided to just do a 100% water change. No fish in the system, and all the other parameters were within reason, so
nothing to lose with replacing it all.
<Mmm; you might add a "pad" of PolyFilter or a bag of ChemiPure in your filter flow path. These will absorb the leaching/back I2 over time.>
Finally, after the 100% water change (my dining room was filled with buckets and bins, and I learned my total system volume is actually about 75 gallons....), I checked my iodine levels and.... still off the chart.
<Ah yes... see above>
Something seemed strange with how the test kit was functioning, since the reaction is supposed to take 10-15 minutes, but seemed to complete instantaneously. Lo and behold..... my reagents had expired 1 month BEFORE I bought the test kit. I wasn't pleased. I did send a note to the LFS to let them know of this issue. I expect they don't sell many of these test kits, and a couple of forum posts indicated the Red Sea iodine reagents expire very quickly. I decided that, since I had just replaced all (except for a couple of gallons in plumbing, etc) of my water, there was no way the iodine was at lethal levels. My coral had already started to really respond and open up, regain color etc. So I moved my two survivors (the clown and sailfin - who had survived a bout of "black ich" in quarantine - thanks general cure) back into the main display. They are now happily swimming around, and the sailfin is starting to mow down an infestation of grape caulerpa that has taken over since his eviction.
<Some good news>
It looks like I'm finally back on track. I'll likely never dose iodine again - just not worth the trouble. Certainly won't dose without testing again.
<Yay>
Once I go a week with everyone still happy, I'll set up the quarantine tank again and begin to repopulate the tank - it just looks so lonely with 2 fish in there.
Thanks for all your advice. Hopefully any future emails will be with happier questions - like which dwarf angel I should put in there (leaning towards flame or coral beauty, since I'll be moving in the next couple of years and don't want to put a potter's through that stress).
Regards,
-Charles
<Thank you for your report. You've likely helped MANY other people to come.
Bob Fenner>

Toxic fumes in mixed reef     1/3/17
Bob,
<Charles>
I have been contacted about installing a mixed reef containing live corals, fish and invertebrates in a printing and special coating finishes on business cards etc. company's office. However, the fumes from the printing processes are extremely strong and I was wondering if you thought that they might kill the reef inhabitants or corals.
<I hope not... but can't tell what the chemicals, their concentration may portend. I will relate that our business installed systems in many commercial settings... some of which had strong industrial fume issues, and didn't have issues. I AM a huge fan of Boyd's ChemiPure... we used to go through a gross a month or so... rotating the units new in, oldest out, every month. I want to give credit to this use for help in this matter>
I have searched and only found information about latex paint fumes ( which are supposed to be relatively ok).
<Agreed>
The aquarium would be covered with a glass canopy and there would be an open sump in a cabinet enclosed on 3 sides underneath. Is there anything in literature or in your personal experiences or hearsay that you know about these toxic fumes affecting the aquarium.
Thank you for any input you may have.
Charles
Aquarium Environments
<Ahh! One of our old DBAs as well. I would try out the system here myself.
Bob Fenner>

Pest control      3/2/17
Dear WWM crew,
<Sarah>
I've been looking into various IGRs (Nylar in this case), but can't find any information about how effective they are outside of the treatment area.
<Mmm; am concerned enough to write that I would do my best to keep over-spray out of the systems; lay damp towels over the tanks, turn off air pumps, air-entraining gear...). Don't see much re Nylar itself, but other IGRs are recorded as being detrimental to aquatic invertebrates>
I don't want to risk killing or sterilizing any of my aquatic inverts, and don't plan to treat the room the tanks are in, but I have no clue how far away is "safe".
Best regards,
Sarah
<I'd be calling the manufacturer of record. Look for their MSDS sheet/s on the Net; perhaps call your local to not "poison center". Bob Fenner>

Eucalyptus oil toxic to marine shrimp?         4/5/16
Hi Crew,
<Thomas>
I have had a bad cold (and no, I don't believe my shrimp caught it). A little over a week ago, my friend lent me a humidifier and some eucalyptus "100% essential oil" to be used with the humidifier to help with my congestion at night. The eucalyptus oil created an odor, as you would expect, that lingered for days after the humidifier was turned off, and pretty much permeated the whole house.
<Mmm; as it is wont to do>
After a couple nights using this humidifier and oil, I noticed the Scarlet Skunk Cleaner Shrimp in my bedroom tank seeming lethargic and not eating, then a day later I notice a similar problem with another Scarlet Skunk Cleaner Shrimp in my downstairs living room (a different room on a different floor, but on the same air circulation system). Suspecting the eucalyptus oil as a likely problem, I discontinued its use and moved it and the oil bottle to the garage. I also changed 20% of the water, and replaced the activated carbon with twice the usual amount, in my bedroom tank.
<Good moves>
The next day, the shrimp there seemed a little better, so I also replaced the activated carbon in my living room (but did not change water, as I did not have enough available).
After a few days, both shrimps seemed better and resumed eating, though I had the sense that they were not 100% back to normal. Then, a couple days ago, I found the shrimp in the living room tank dead on the bottom. Today,
I noticed the shrimp in the bedroom tank being harassed by the Lemon Peel Angel, who normally would go to the shrimp for cleaning services. As I watched, I noticed that the shrimp did not seem to signal his willingness to clean as he had before, and I wondered if this inappropriate behavior (for a cleaner shrimp) causes the angel to respond inappropriately. I also notice that this shrimp's tentacles do not seem as straight as I remembered them being (he had molted a few days before all this started).
<Good observations, reporting>
All my fish and hardy soft corals seem fine.
So, what is my question? Mainly this: do you think it is likely that this airborne eucalyptus oil is the cause of problems for my shrimp?
<By inference and some otherwise deduction I do. The class of compounds that include Eucalyptus "smell" have various and diverse biochemical properties; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucalyptol#Toxicology>
Perhaps you don't (or can't possibly) know, in which case my email will serve as a caution about a possible risk of using eucalyptus oil around marine aquaria.
<Yes; thank you>
Thanks,
Tom
<Bob Fenner>

Dealing with exceptionally hardy strain of crypt?    Impt. notes re Quinines; old Amquel toxicity           11/12/15
​Hi Crew,
I've been happily reading your site for several years now and am grateful for all of the information. Ever since ich entered my 170g reef almost two years ago before I learned to properly QT, I've been fighting it with just about every method in the book, including many "reef-safe" snake oils, but also QT with hypo, Chloroquine, and quinine...sometimes keeping the fish in
the DT while removing LR and corals, others removing fish to QT and letting the DT go fallow.
<With you so far>
I've blamed failures on everything from not keeping medication levels high enough, to keeping the QT and DT to close together so that aerosolized crypt could move between the two systems.
<Interesting speculation. More likely resident/residual infestation. Most systems have this/them>
I've also demonstrated through studies in a lab with good equipment that Chloroquine degrades super fast leaving behind an inactive molecule in my tank (I was monitoring by HPLC , and I believe, based on changes in CPQ behavior over a year, that a microbe capable of detoxifying Chloroquine either entered or evolved in my system...more about that another time, but high levels of the degradation do appear to be toxic to Zebrasoma tangs).
<I REALLY encourage you to publish your data, explanations>
I now know that quinine is perfectly stable in my system and that the concentration remains constant after dosing regardless of skimmer or keeping lights on. It clearly wipes out any visible ich on my fish within 24 hours and prevents the return until removed. Unfortunately, as you already know, it dos nothing for the inactive cyst stage, and I find that certain tangs (particularly Zebrasoma) begin to show signs of drug toxicity after about a week (labored breathing, failure to eat, general listlessness) but they recover fully withi8n a day of being moved to a system without quinine.
<I have suspected such as well>
SO....I still have ich. I just completed a 13 week fallow (no new coral or other additions), my QT and DT are far apart, precautions were taken to heat-sterilize anything that went from one tank to another, etc. I moved a Kole tang with no visible signs of ich from QT to the DT.
<Note the qualifier, "no visible signs">
He had been at high quinine concentration for the previous five days and was allowed an hour in the quinine containing water during the transfer process, just in case there were any random cysts that had just hatched so that the new hatchlings would have time to die from high drug exposure.
About a week later, the first small blotch appeared, looking nothing like ich.
<You should sample, check under a microscope>
Couple more blotches (as opposed to raised sugar grains) appeared here and there until this morning when I clearly saw some raised sugary grains. So, it's back to QT for him, and I'll have quinine in the tank to make sure that anything on him dies before it can re-encyst and live to infect another fish.
Finally to my question: Would you let this DT go fallow for 6 months?
<As long as possible, practical... more likely, with no desired life present, I'd bleach all and restart it>
A year? Or sacrifice your corals, cook your live rock, empty the DT, and go over every component with a hair dryer to make sure not so much as a single drop of water remains anywhere in the general vicinity?
<No; I would not go this far. Just as likely to (re) import Crypt w/ new fishes>
I have also considered periodically placing an ich-resistant fish in an isolation box within the tank in case this strain requires fish hormones to break dormancy. I realize all of this might seem extreme, but I seem to have a real survivor here and the theory of crypt weakening after a year of successive generations seems to either be wrong, or to not apply to this strain.
The good news is that my fish seem to be real survivors....though I did lose many to a bad batch of Amquel plus, which I will write about separately.
<To/for browsers; DO give your polyvinylpyrrolidone solutions (commercial dechloraminators often contain) a "good whiff" and if they smell, toss rather than use them>
I would greatly appreciate any advice here.
Thank you
<I'd have you read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/reefparfaq2.htm
and a few of the linked files above.... for solace, input. I'd strive to "keep balance" in your/fishes favor here; through optimized care: environment and nutrition; use of cleaners.... Bob Fenner>
Bad batch of Amquel Plus          11/12/15
​Hi again crew.
I wanted to separate this subject from my previous tome on a persistent strain of ich.
<Ah, I thank you>
I have found a little about this on your site, but wanted to add. It took me 3 die-offs and a discussion at my LFS to get here.
I have used the product many times in the past with great success,
<I've used hundreds of gallons commercially; and know where you're going here>
but I bought a new bottle from Amazon in July when we were having a heat wave. I had just restarted a quarantine tank and was ready to begin catching fish after another ich outbreak and put some of the product in. I trapped a pbt that was heavily infected, added him, and he died overnight. I assumed he was too badly damaged by crypt or that something was wrong with my parameters or that it was new tank syndrome even though I had added a well seeded sponge. I let the QT (75 gallons) settle for a few days, added carbon, and tried another fish, but assumed I didn't need the AmQuel for just one fish. That fish lived, and I added more, one at a time. They all lived. After a week, I was heading out on vacation and thought I'd leave
the fish with a big water change and clean filters....and of course, some Amquel plus prophylactically in case the bacteria count was too far reduced to fully keep up with the bio burden for the first couple days. The water went cloudy overnight and many fish died immediately or over the next week while my house sitter watched helplessly. Again, I blamed it on my water change and the weekend state of my fish.
As the end of my fallow period approached, I decided to do a tank transfer just in case there were any cysts capable of surviving. I set up a 20 gallon with new water and seeded sponge filter and checked my temperature, pH, etc. Then I added Amquel plus from that same bottle, now 2 months older. I placed a fish in the tank and it began twitching and was dead
within 10 minutes. I had removed it to a bucket of water taken from my DT within 5 minutes, but it could not recover. The water turned cloudy and the pH dropped to 6.5.
<Yikes!>
After my fallow ended and I transferred my few remaining fish back to the DT, I decided to buy a couple new fish and begin the QT process over again. They went into the same QT my other fish had been in with good stable conditions, and they were swimming happily. At 10 PM, I decided to add a single capful of Amquel plus from this same bottle, still thinking
the other deaths were something I had done. Six hours later, I awoke to find the fish dead and the pH very low but no ammonia.
I tasted the material and found it to be acidic and strong, then went to my LFS and explained what had happened, and asked if they had open AmQuel I could taste. The two were not the same.
<Note to browsers, please DO NOT taste test aquarium products>
When discussing my decision to purchase off Amazon in July, the owner noted that he only orders Amquel for the store between October and May, and stocks up in May to avoid shipping in summer. He stated that exposure to high temperature will sometimes cause it to go bad, and that was likely my problem.
<Yes; though simple time going by can result in such degradation>
I bought a new bottle to run some tests, like change in pH of live salt water, but the old and new were identical. I cut off a couple pieces of filter floss from my canister filter and added them. It did seem like the old bottle made the water hazier in the presence of the dirty filter, but I could just be seeing things. since I cannot distinguish between the two bottles based on appearance, smell, or effect on simple parameters, I am terrified to add this to my tank.
I have since added a couple fish to this QT, after a water change and carbon. There have been no deaths.
Since I can't similar stories anywhere else on the internet,
<There are a few accounts. Am going to try "Amquel Toxicity" in the search tool: There are ref.s, but they're not coming up counter-shaded for some reason, and am wont to look w/in the FAQs files for the specific Q/As.... I assure you though that I am well-aware w/in you speak; chatted w/ Dr. Bob Rofen (RIP) who passed earlier this year; owner of Kordon/Novalek Re (the maker of this product and NovAqua, and...) and John/ny Farrell Kuhns, the actual chemical patent holder for these lines..... the aging, break-down and toxicity of this product IS a known quality>
I was wondering if you had similar experience or had heard this from somebody else in the past. I am particularly interested in whether the "heat effect" is real.
<Sped up rates of reaction; yes. You can see/read my bio. on WWM, elsewhere. I taught H.S. level chemistry and physics....>
Thank you in advance for whatever information you can provide....I'd like this info to help others, but I understand if you need to keep it private in order to avoid lawsuits from the manufacturer.
<I am very long since past any such consideration. Am really only interested in establishing fact/s, disseminating them in a useful, timely manner to others that are interested. Again, I thank you for your sharing, concern. Bob Fenner>