Used Tank
Just curious about a 115 Gal DAS tank that I used to own.  Every thing I put into it other than fish would die almost immediately.  I bought the tank used
<Could have been that a toxin/poison had gotten into the tank. Even soap is difficult almost impossible to get out of a tank...and it will kill, depending on how sensitive your animals are to that particular toxin>
and when I bought it the LFS in Alabama had some dead rock in it.  Should have started me looking right there, I know but was new in the marine business.  
<Also...Did you test the water and wait until cycling was finished before adding any critters to the tank?>
I used RO/DI water exclusively and tested the tank weekly and did all my water changes.  
<Sounds good>
If I put an anemone in it died within an hour.
<Anemones are bad for just about everyone's tank. They just don't survive>
I tested for copper using the Seachem kit and it read 0.  
<Doesn't mean there weren't trace amounts>
Snails and shrimp also died VERY quickly.
<Sounds like copper poisoning or soap>
All water qualities were in parameters.  PH, Salinity, ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, and phosphate were zero. Couldn't keep any inverts at all alive.  It's been really bothering me over the years.  Any ideas????????
<You got 'em! Sounds like a classic case of copper poisoning! David Dowless>

- Re: New Sump, New Problems -
This in reply to Jason C who asked me a few questions. <Well... I'm back.> Before I had a emperor 400. No I did not clean it before I installed it. <The sump... well...> I am kicking myself today for that. It was new so I didn't even think about it. <Call me paranoid, but I clean everything before I put it in my tank.> Since last night I lost my Kole Yellow Eye, and he was the only one who wasn't showing any signs of rapid breathing. <I'm sorry to hear about your loss.> I have a new cap 2200 pump with all new plumbing from prefilter to drain line to return pump. I have messed up big time with something. Good news is my False Perc clown and blue tang who was laying on their sides last night seem to be doing better. <Ahh good.> I did a 50% WC last night and ran 18 oz of carbon last night and replaced it with fresh 18oz of carbon this morning. <Good plan, I'd even do another large [50%] water change again soon - let the new water a day or so to mix before you add it.> Even my button polyp was affected by this. It swelled up and has yet to come back to normal. Bristle stars and hermits seem to be unaffected as well. <Interesting.> Do you think it was me not washing the new equipment out? <A distinct possibility. Again... going on the fact that your nitrogen-cycle tests indicate there is nothing toxic in the tests, you need to look for other 'instant' contaminants. The fact this all happened right after you installed the new sump is the best clue you have.> That seems to be the only thing I can think of. <Or related - perhaps something you had on your hands when doing the work.> What a stupid mistake if so. <It's an honest mistake, and potentially one with regrettable consequences, but not the type of mistake that is often repeated afterwards.>
Thanks again,
Jason
<Cheers, J -- >

Can't keep fish alive - 55g.
Hi Bob
<Kevin here today!>
This is the first time writing to u but have used your website for many answers. I have a new saltwater tank 55g it has been cycled for at least 2 months and everything tests at 0 the salinity is 1.022 and the temp around 78. I cant get anything to stay alive in this tank except a few turbo snails and a few hermits, when I put fish in they stay swimming at the top and after a few days they die I have done an almost complete water change after the last deaths put in a Green Chromis and it did fine so I move in a Maroon Clownfish he is now swimming at the top of the tank. Anything u can tell me would be great because I'm ready to tear it down !
<Whoa. First thing to do is verify your test results by comparing them with a different kit (Fastest/Seatest, Salifert, etc) and make sure that you have no pH, ammonia, or nitrite problems. Second, establish a quarantine tank, the fish you are getting could be sick from the get-go. I'd like to know how this tank is set up, what equipment is used, and what kind of maintenance you do on it. Also, how do you acclimate these fish? Do you see any slime, dust, bumps, or spots on the fish? Do they breath very hard? Do they die with their gills wide open? Let me know, we'll get to the bottom of this! -Kevin>

- Fish Issues -
Hi,
I have had real trouble keeping fish alive, my reef tank is close to a year old, 55g, 3" sand, AquaC Remora, 4x65w PC lighting.  All water parameters are fine, my corals are fine, and my snails and cleaner shrimp have been in there forever. <Interesting.> The fish keep dying after a few weeks, they really don't look sick either.  Mostly dwarf angels, tangs etc. so not really small fish, I don't believe I have an attacker somewhere. <Most likely there is an issue with your supply - have you bought these all in the same place? I'd be wanting to blame them, or at the very least their supplier.> I have done small frequent water changes, even a close to 100% water change (no fish anyway).  I use RO/DI for water and buffer with Seachem.  Could any of my corals be producing something toxic to the fish?? I am out of ideas.  My corals are a multi-mushroom polyp, Galaxea, umbrella mushroom, Goniopora, frogspawn, type of brain, large star polyp and an Acropora. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated, this is getting way to expensive! :-( <No doubt - I'd work with a local store to procure, and then put a deposit on any fish you might want - let them keep it for two weeks before you take it home. Check up on it several times and make sure it's eating. That should make a difference.>
Thanks!
-Brian
<Cheers, J -- >

Dead Fish
Bob 
I have a 8 month old, 75 gallon reef/fish tank that consisted of 4' yellow Tang, False Percula, Clark's Eye, Potter Angel, Orange Chromis and a Royal Gramma. In addition, to this I also have an long tentacle anemone, 3 cleaner shrimp and a Coral banded. I run 2 Emperor 400 and a protein skimmer and 60lbs of live rock. I added 20lbs of live rock and within 4 to 5 days my nitrate went from 15 to 40 but everything else stayed at 0. And within 24hrs the Clarks Eye, Percula, Orange Chromis and all 3 cleaner shrimp died. I did a 10% water change the first day and then a 25% water change till the nitrate came back down and things stop dying. Do you have any idea as to why my organisms died?
Thanks in advance
Doug
>>
Two general possibilities... some sort of poisoning from 1) outside or 2) inside the system... the nitrate being a big clue. The "life" in your system (including the very real possibility of much of the uncured, or re-stabilizing live rock) started to die from whatever the initial cause was/is (a spray cleaner from outside, nicotine on some smoker's arm in the tank... a lack of oxygen in your system, overfeeding event, curing live rock...) and triggered the losses...
Moving on to the more important question here (I can't bring back the dead... yet). "How to prevent such mortalities in the future"... Do consider placing some live macro-algae in your system to use up the nitrates... and adding an airstone to increase oxygen availability.... And possibly boosting your lighting to increase photosynthesis on your live rock (and the macro-algae)... that will accomplish both diminishing the nitrates (and other nutrients) and increasing gaseous exchange.
Bob Fenner

Help me!!!!!!!! marine aquarium problem 
I have a 60gal. marine tank that has been set up for 2 months now. I have 2 Featherdusters, 40lbs. of live rock, sand bottom, 3 damsels, 1 percula clown. For filtration I have a canister filter (w/ BioChem stars, pads, carbon filtration), U.V sterilizer, and a protein skimmer. I have a triton bulb for lighting which is on for 11 hours daily. I do water changes every week by tap water threw a water purifier its for drinking) then add Amquel, reef crystals salt), and let sit for overnight while heating up with a heater. The problem is that I loose every fish I introduce into the system in about 3-5 days!!!! I lost 2 Kole, hippo, yellow tangs, x-mas wrass,2 percula clowns, pigmy, bi-color, and flame angels, lemon seed butterfly, fox face and probably others that I cant remember. The ph is 8.2-8.4 . Salinity is 1.022 . Temp is 78 . ammonia, nitrates, nitrites are always at 0 ( I test every 2 days). There seem to be no aggression with new or old tankmates. Am sure there is no poisonous display material in the tank because there is only liverock, fake coral, and some pieces of coral that were bought from a aquarium store and ran under water( hot and no detergents) before introducing. I tried many ways of introducing new fish including floating bag method, drip method, water swap method etc. Most of the fish that died looked very healthy and eating hours before death although, the Kole, hippo, and bi-color angel developed what looked like ick in 2 days after introducing then died 2 days later. All other fish just died after looking very healthy just days before. Please help!!!! I am very discouraged but want a marine system badly. Money and patients are running low. 
<Something is very wrong here... could be simply a metal contaminant (check for a clamp, bit of metal in your substrate, a thermometer?...), maybe just a lack of oxygen!? Please see our website: www.WetWebMedia.com on the Marine Index, the sections on "Toxic Tank Situations", "Acclimation", "Circulation"... At any length, I strongly encourage you to pre-mix your new seawater per the protocol stored on the WWM site under "Using Seawater", to add a powerhead or two to increase circulation and aeration AND to add more lighting... to boost the metabolism/photosynthesis of your live rock organisms... We will find the root cause of your difficulty here and solve it. Bob Fenner>

Ocellaris clown and mandarin (and anomalous toxicity)
Bob,
I've got a 37 gal tank...nitrates, nitrites, ammonia and pH all look good, salinity is ~1.023 and temp is ~78F. I have an ocellaris clown, a spotted mandarin , some mushrooms, snails, hermit crabs, a Featherduster and some sponges (along with about 40 lbs of live rock). The problem started about 4 weeks ago. I bought a kauderni cardinal and watched as it absolutely refused to eat anything I fed for about 2 weeks. It looked healthy otherwise, normal respiration, no spotting and swimming normally. Then after about two weeks it started swimming funny (sinking near the bottom, I took that as a bad sign) and it was gone in the morning. I assume it made its way into one of the live rock crevices and was never seen again. A few days later I noticed a couple of spots on my clown and pseudo springeri (I didn't mention him earlier, he is no longer around). I medicated the tank with Marin Oomed...I used it once before a couple of years ago with good results. My luck seems to have changed though, the springeri got worse and died 2 days ago. The clownfish is starting to look bad (more white spots) and looks to be breathing a little heavy. I've gone through the Marin Oomed cycle twice now and it doesn't appear to be working. 
<No. I don't think your problem is treatable in this way... don't think it's parasitic, but environmental...>
The mandarin has also developed a couple of spots as well but seems to be by far in better shape. Unfortunately I do not have a quarantine tank.....what should I do next?? I've had the clown fish for over 5 years and really don't want to lose it. Thanks for any help.
<I suggest the "standard" "drop back and punt" routine here of a succession of water changes, cleaning of filter gear, gravel vacuuming, and running a pound or so of activated carbon in your filter flow path... that and ceasing whatever "supplement" activity you're currently involved in... Bob Fenner>
Chris

Toxic tank
Hi, Having a difficult time with a new 90 saltwater tank. Turbo snails die within ten minutes of being put in the tank. A Yellow tang within two days. A small hermit crab lasted one week.
<Mmm>
Currently living happily are
1 Percula Clown
2 tomatoes
1 Damsel
As of two days ago- a lunar wrasse and a domino which I wrongfully accused of causing the problem and gave them back to the LFS.
ammonia - 0
nitrites- 0
nitrates- 10 ppm
ph 8.6
no live rock
<The live rock would help a great deal to modify, stabilize water quality, provide cover, forage... Please read: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/liverock1.htm and beyond>
lighting 65 watts 10K & 65 watts ultra actinic CF
Wet/dry 2 ft ^3 with t1000 protein skimmer in the sump.
1.023 SG
The tank is 4 1/2 months old. I cycled it using damsels and a yellow tang. After 3 months purchased an emperor angle and everything started going wrong. The 3" long emperor died two days later. Then the yellow tang which helped cycle the tank became very thin overnight and died the next day. Waited a week and tried turbo snails and a hermit crab and a Koran angle. Turbos died after a few hours, Korean died the next day, and crab lasted a week before dying. Waited two weeks and did a water change and added a turbo snail and a yellow tang. Snail died after a few hours and tang became very thin by the next day and died. Thinking that it might be a toxin, put a large bag of carbon in the sump to try to save the tang but it didn't help or was too late.
<There is "something" chemically either "too much" (like a metal) in your system or "too little" like alkalinity (do test for this)>
It seems like a toxin somehow got in the tank. Things that I suspect have all been in the tank since day one, but I will list them. I used 1000 shot gun shell wads as the bio media as I have heard of other people doing this.
<Yes, for folks who utilize wet-dry filtration>
(I boiled them in water before putting them in the sump)
Used black Plexi glass in the tank around the bottom drain to control the water which feeds the sump.
Used vinyl tubing in the filtration system. Used polycarbonate plastic (Lexan) to make the sump. Everything else in the tank is very standard and purchased at the local pet store. One other questionable thing I do is mix a small amount of Novaqua conditioner to the "new" salt water before adding it to the tank during water changes. I have added no other medicines/chemicals and am very careful not to introduce pet store water into the tank.
<Good accounting of your actions>
I still have the carbon bag in the tank. I am thinking of doing a massive water change, say 90 gallons, to the tank but would hate to do this without knowing what went wrong because I don't want to do it again. I was in the process of buying 50 pounds of LR when all this went wrong, but cancelled the order as I didn't want to kill all that rock.
<Don't worry here... the LR will not all die... but will/would change the water for the better>
Any thoughts or suspicions? Thanks for the help your (recently discovered) site has given me.
Scott Buske
<I would go ahead with the addition of the live rock, get/use an alkalinity test kit... and likely get rid of the shotgun wadding (and not use any wet-dry media...) ultimately changing the sump to a refugium style filter. Bob Fenner>

Can't figure out what it wrong
Hello,
We have a 150 gallon tank that is about 6 months old. After going through the maturation process we tried to stock it with fish, we would add the fish and they would be fine for about a week and then die. We keep a close eye on the ammonia, pH, nitrate, and nitrite, all were zero when we added them and it was zero when the died. Every time we add fish they look really healthy eat good and swim with no problems, but with in a week to 14 days they all die. What are we doing wrong? We have read several books can't find anything to help. It seems the only thing that I can keep alive is a pacific cleaner shrimp, and he looks kind of small in this big tank all by himself.
Thank You, M. Pinkston
<Somewhere, somehow something chronically to acutely toxic has made/is making its way into your tank. A few ideas come to mind. Ammoniated "window" cleaners being sprayed around, soaps/detergents coming into contact with your water (through a communal bucket, sponge...), "tramp" metal sneaking in through your gravel, décor (some "lava" rocks cause this, and often an iron test kit will reveal it), even a metal thermometer... any metal contact... I know it must be discouraging (to put it mildly) to keep losing your fish... so I would make the big move: Dump the tank, remove the gravel, clean and dry it, spread it out and look for signs of metal introduction. Re-set up the tank, add some live rock (this will really help) and put the shrimp back in. Wait about a month and introduce some fishes. If the new fishes seem to be going sideways, add some PolyFilter in your filter flow path and get back to me about what color it changes...Bob Fenner>

Dying fish...
Bob-
HELP!! I can’t keep anything alive for more than several weeks. I have a 125ga with 130+ lbs of LR covered with coralline algae, 1-2“ of crushed coral substrate, wet/dry sump, protein skimmer, Eheim filter, UV filter, 2 powerheads, 2-24” blue actinic bulbs and 2 trichromatic bulbs. The tank has been set up for about 18 months. For the first 6 months or so, I had a juv. Imperator, a yellow tang and a blue tang. The imperator died of unknown cause, but the tangs continued on. Since then I have killed 2 powder blue tangs, 3-4 flame angels, 3 Auriga Butterflyfish, 2 Longnose yellow Butterflyfish, Koran angels, juv French angels, gobies, etc, etc... I have been able to keep the 2 original tangs alive for 18 months or so, and I have had pretty good luck with the ‘clean-up crew’.
Those that have died, I assumed became dinner for some lucky fish. None ever appeared to be diseased with ich or any other parasite, they generally would stop eating and be dead within a day or so. 3 weeks ago, I got an Auriga from FFE, and it did fine in the quarantine tank. It was in the quarantine tank for 2 weeks and died 2 days after being in the main tank. The night before it died, it was eating and acting normal. Because of its aggressive behavior, I put the yellow tang in the small tank when I put the Auriga in the main tank. The tang died this morning, after having it for 18 months. The fish have been purchase from local shops as well as FFE. I feed 1-2 times a day and have used small amounts of Ocean Nutrition Formula One, Two, frozen as well as live brine, dried red and brown algae. All the food is gone within several minutes.
I have done 10-20% water changes using RO water from a local ‘water store’ the entire time the tank has been up. The water has always tested within normal ranges. For the last 6 months or so, I premixed the water in a large trash can for 2-3 days. Prior to this, I would premix it in the 5 gallon containers. I put de-Chlor and ‘Prime’ in the water. Most of the time when I did water changes, I would vacuum the substrate.
Having talked to several local shops, they all said to cut back on the vacuuming. The last time I did was several months ago. Since then, the nitrates have been lower than normal, 10-20 instead of the usual 30-40ppm. The skimmer has been foaming more than usual though. I wash my hands every time before I put them in the tank. The only thing I can think of that would contaminate the tank would be the usual household cleaners used in the same room as the tank but, not on the tank itself.
I clean the Eheim every 3 months, changing the charcoal and rinsing the pre-filters. I’ve used Poly Filters in the overflow for the last year or so.
The quarantine tank was set up with gravel from the main tank and the water changes are done with water coming out of the main tank after the new water has been added. I’ve kept a log for the last 8 months and have found no connection to anything.
When I talked with the local shops, and they suggested cutting back on the vacuuming to allow for the biological filter to build up, I got a dozen damsels to help ‘re-cycle’ the tank. All but 4 died within a week.
As I mentioned earlier, I haven’t noticed any parasites or any ‘mystery worms’ or strange inhabitants as I have read about so many times in your daily column. There has been an occasional ‘scratching’ on the rocks but nothing that would indicate any other sign of stress.
I have read and re-read CMA until I think I have it memorized. Should I start all over? I hate to get rid of all the LR if I don’t have to, but at this point I am willing to do most anything. A friend has 3 smaller tanks and never does so much as a water change and they are all doing great. Please help! This is really frustrating (and expensive).
I’m sorry this is so long but I wanted to give as much background as I could. Thanks.
Andy Lange
PS. During the writing of this, I took a break for dinner and noticed the remaining long time surviving blue tang, acting strange.
<Thank you for writing... and supplying necessary information...
I do suspect some form of chronic poisoning as you hint... Can you tell me, what color, if any, the PolyFilter pads change to? 
It's possible that there are some toxic organisms also that could be slowly poisoning the system... we will get rid of them as well:
And if we can't find the root cause... not cleaners in your case... their effects would be direct and immediate... but some sort of "tramp metal"... like a rusting clamp, some ferrous trash that came with your rock, substrate... a break in a coating on a metallic component in your filtration... (I would take some of your water into a dealer that has a sensitive iron test kit... this is the most common metal element that causes trouble)... then I would definitely go a/the extreme route... as I'm soon to list:
Do consider taking the tank apart... This is not such a big job as it may appear at this point, and will indeed be satisfying... in solving your mysterious death problems.
Take out and freshwater rinse your live rock, and stack/store dry (i.e., not underwater) out of the way...
Drain the tank to the near bottom, but with some water above the gravel, and apply a good gallon of "swimming pool" bleach (sodium hypochlorite)... carefully so you don't stain anything... stir the bleach water in and around your substrate. Let this whole mess stand for an hour or more... with your windows open on a "nice day".
Add freshwater, drain, add freshwater, drain... and then take out the gravel, rinse it, store it, and return it to the tank... re-set the whole thing up... with synthetic salt mix... and replace the live rock in about three/four days... Yes, not a typo. Let the rock air-dry this long... Much of the desirable life on it will come right back... and the not so desirable will be dust. Let this whole system run for a month... before starting your re-stocking...and one last item: cease using the Prime product... it probably has not much to do with your situation, but is unnecessary. Bob Fenner>

Help! My Entire Tank Is Dead!
Hi Bob,
I bought a fish that started showing signs of sickness a couple of days after I put him in my tank. Whatever this illness is, ended up killing off my entire tank. Here's what happened:
My fish started looking like they had dead skin hanging off of them. My local fish store suggested RxP so I started treating the tank immediately. 
Within 24 hours, half of my fish were dead ( 2 within hours of adding the RxP) and the other half started looking even worse. They were all eating just fine throughout all this massive death. 
Anyway, I've tested and retested my water and everything looks fine. However, now there is all this white tubular stuff on my live rock and just today there are little white things on the glass of my tank that look a lot like smaller versions of these long tubular white things. Honestly, most of this stuff looks like mold! Some of it is even on the plants of my live rock and it wasn't there before. 
I bought 20 pounds of Fiji live rock a couple of weeks before I got the fish that was the first to become ill. Didn't know if this had anything to do with it.
So after being so long-winded, I suppose my question is: What in the world went wrong and where do I go now to get my tank back in shape for more fish? So I'm back to my original statement: Help! My entire tank is dead! :)
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you, Apryl Duncan
<Yeeikes! Let's go back a few, make that all steps... Don't know, can't say what the problem was, the root cause(s) or if the medicine hastened your livestock's' demise or you did from overdosing...
And at this point, don't know from your description what the tubular bits are... but they might well be decomposers... they are of little consequence.
At any length, I do know what I would do at this point: Take about a third of the water out and replace it with freshwater...as in tap... and let the tank run for a month like that... Much of your "live" part of rock may die, but so will about all of the possible disease-causing organisms that might have been there... 
After the month, raise the specific gravity back to about 1.022 and try a few damsels... and then we'll talk again. Bob Fenner>

Appended: Unexplained Fish Deaths?
Bob,
I sent you another message this morning (attached) asking about some unexplained fish deaths. At lunch today as I looked into the tank and saw a greyish/white translucent slug looking thing with antennae perched on a rock spewing something into the water. I left the room for just a minute and when I came back it was gone. Do you know what this could be and could it be my fish killer. 
Thanks again, John
<Not a/the fish killer you might believe... But likely some sort of snail, worm reproducing (or maybe just eliminating), in response to (one last gasp) to poor environmental conditions... ADD NOTHING MORE TO THIS TANK for a few weeks... it will settle down... Then we'll talk about spiffing up your water quality... Maybe take a look at this issue, skimmers.... at my site: www.wetwebmedia.com
Bob Fenner>

Within about two hours, every fish in our tank died (Firefish, Percula clown, Mandarin). We also lost all the snails, almost lost our shrimp and polyps and mushrooms too, but we got them out in time. None of the fish had looked sick. No spots, discoloration, or any weird behavior. If you would have looked at the tank, the top of the water almost looked like it had suds on it and our protein skimmer was bubbling over. We had our water tested and everything came back perfect. I was wondering if you have any ideas as to what could have happened and what we need to do to get our tank back up again. Nicki Kubes
<Something, very, acutely toxic... either started from outside (an ammonia based cleaner, soap/detergent on a hand, a cigarette butt...) or inside... A cascade of events... from the organisms you list, likely the mushrooms... poisoning their tankmates... A type of chemical warfare that goes on "in the wild" regularly... but with a much larger dilution salvation.... 
To prevent or forestall such future problems, regular water changes, the use of chemical filtrants periodically, keeping the mushrooms clearly separated from other sessile invertebrates... plenty of circulation, aeration, growing macro-algae in the system or a specialized sump (mud/rock/algae) filter... all help.
Bob Fenner, who is sorry to hear of your losses and directs you to the "Toxic Tank Conditions" and "Environmental Disease" areas of www.wetwebmedia.com for more information.>