Tank Wipeout Aftermath – 06/28/08
Nature
Hello Masters of the SaltWaterverse!
<All bow down>
Your site is terrific and your answers are always very helpful and often amusing.
<Heeeee!>
It is the most informative website I have found.
<Okay, enough, my head won't fit through the door>
Have spent many, many nights up till the wee hours reading the various posts to my husbands annoyance! He's not an animal lover like me. I have a 47g tall tank. It has a live DSB with 3" of aragonite on the bottom, and 2" of oolite on top, 45 lbs live rock, pc quad 50/50 lighting, 450 bio-wheel filter, SeaClone 100 skimmer, and 3 X Koralia 1 400gph powerheads for water movement. Is this too much water movement?
<Mmm, no>
I have one in the back behind the LR pointed down and one on either side at the front at different heights pointed toward each other. The tank parameters are as follows: calcium 420, KH 16 (and counting!),
<Too high!>
PH 8.5, Nitrate 0, Nitrite 0, SP 1.021.
<Mmm, too low>
KH is very high due to the following ( I think! ): tank was fully cycled, everything was perfect, water parameters were perfect, had fish, corals etc. everything healthy, happy and growing and doing great. Then, Wham! The sweet little sea cucumber that the LFS sold me as a sand sifter died and poisoned everything in the tank!
<Argghhh! Too common>
(hanging head in shame over not researching this critter before purchase, have since purchased Bob's book to smarten my brain up!) The only survivors were my snowflake eel, 2 hermit crabs, 3 snails, 1 Blastomussa coral and 1 snake polyp coral. I have since cleared out all the remains, did a 50% water change, 3 X 20% water changes, disassembled and scrubbed the skimmer, cleaned out the filter and added a second clean filter to it. Now I cannot seem to get the KH down. I have tested each time I've done a water change and the numbers are high each time ( stick test as well as reef master liquid testing each time). I have purchased a new cleaning crew and 5 damsels which are in the tank and doing fine, even the eel seems fine at the moment, but time will tell.
<Mmm... likely some high tension amongst the damsels in this shape, volume system>
With the KH being so high I stopped the daily dose of calcium.
<Good>
Any suggestions other than time, that will lower the KH?
<Mmm, yes... these are posted though>
Asked at the LFS and they had no clue. Also, did the Cuke explosion kill my live rock and copepods?
<Not likely altogether>
I purchased more copepods since this happened figuring they died as I want to get another Green Mandarin goby and want to be ready for it when it arrives.
<The Echidna should go... likely most of the damsels as well...>
Your advice is most appreciated and definitely needed. Thanks a lot Crew!
Cindy
<See here: http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/maintenance/index.htm
scroll downnnnnnnnnnnnn. Bob Fenner>

What went wrong!?  Small SW tank troubleshooting  05/30/2008
Hello,
<<Hey, Andrew with you today>>
I have a 24 gallon aqua cube which has recently become a 24 gallon death cube. In the beginning we started out with a 12 gallon and moved to the 24 gallon, in recent months everything has been great. We had a good share of soft corals and live rock. In the tank we had an orange diamond goby, (Moby the goby), a Blenny (Lenny the blenny), a black and white striped damsel (pokey), Clown fish (primo) and half yellow half purple fish(mystery). We also had some crabs, 1 porcelain, 1 emerald and a few hermit. We had a turbo snail and a starfish and black sea urchin.
Everything was great, levels were good and everyone was happy.
<<Ok>>
Then it happened. My wife and I went to a new aquarium store to look around, we were ah struck when we came across this slug, a Nudibranch, he is purple with yellow horns and flames out his back.
<<Ah yes, could be a few different species of Nudi, please do identify from here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nudibran.htm >>
We were told they are easy to care for and that they ate sponges, something we didn't have.
<<Yes, this is true. All have their own specialist diet>>
They sold us a light blue sponge also saying they were easy to take care of, just drop it in the tank and make sure it doesn't get exposed to air. So we got home and acclimated the slugs (we also purchased a lettuce Nudibranch) and put the blue sponge in our tank. This was on last Sunday.
<<Ok>>
Everything seemed to be happy, then my wife came home from work on Tuesday, called me and told me something was wrong, the soft corals were shriveled up and hadn't come out and 2 of the fish were dead (mystery and pokey). All the other fish were breathing heavy and sitting on the bottom of the tank. The blue sponge appeared to be dying, the blue was falling off and u could see the white spongy skeleton underneath. I immediately pulled the sponge out and tossed it along with the dead fish. I tested the water and the nitrates were showing 160ppm!
<<Yikes>>
I also tested the ammonia but it was fine. I immediately did a 10 gallon water change per a friend. The nitrates seemed to have dropped to around 80ppm, the next day (last night) when I got home from work (after picking up some supplies at our normal aquarium store) 80% of our soft corals were dead, Moby ,Lenny, black sea urchin, starfish and turbo snail were also dead. I pulled all of them out, did another 10 gallon water change, added charcoal and a bag of something (white) that is supposed to absorb nitrates and nitrites. This morning the water seemed crystal clear, Primo was still alive along with the Crabs. I did another water test last night after the water change and the nitrate was 40ppm.
I hear that the blue sponge releases a deadly neurotoxin when it dies and that is what wiped everything out. Im not sure what spiked the nitrates. Any insight?
<<Not "usually" blue sponges which release this, more so with some red sponges. Do not rule out the possibility of the Nudibranch releasing toxins. Please do read page 3 of the above linked web page on Nudibranchs. The spike in nitrates will be down to the death in the tank, ammonia --> Nitrite --> Nitrate. I would be tempted to remove the Nudibranch, return to the store>>
John C. Curry
<<Thanks for the questions, hope this helps. A Nixon>>

Mystery deaths  9/7/07
I work at a LFS, I have a customer whom has lost several fish. Water parameters are all great, Nitrates less than 5ppm, .5 on the phosphates,
<Soluble? This is high>
8.2 for the ph, and currently a Fire shrimp and some hermits are enjoying life, health as ever. After there initial losses they waited several weeks, then replaced there fish, 48 hrs and they were floaters. While testing of their water (everything great) they admitted to not performing a water change in 6 months. I suggested two large water changes, with a day in between. In addition to a 72hr dark period to clear up some Cyano.
<This is likely the culprit here>
After waiting two weeks, in that time the Cyano. all but disappeared, water chemistry looked even better, they took home a Orange spot sand sifter and a yellow tail damsel. The fish lasted five days, st least the sand sifter, the Damsel is M.I.A. presumed dead though. I hope you can offer some guidance on our situation. I am at a loss, and would like to help them. Maybe some parasite which does not require a fish host to complete it's life cycle is lurking within their tank. I hope you have a fresh perspective on this problem. Let me know if I left out any pertinent info. Thanks for what you do, James.
<I do suspect a latent/residual toxicity from the long-standing water and BGA... If it were me/mine, I'd have these folks dump the water, bleach all... and re-set-up... Please read and have them read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/clnornart.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

What happens within the tank when an Anemone dies? 12/20/07
Hi Crew,
<Hello Bobby, Brenda here!>
I have a question about Condylactis Anemones.
<Okay!>
If I were to buy a Condylactis, and it happen to die (obviously not hoping, just sort of planning ahead), what would happen within the tank? Would this pretty much crash my tank?
<It is a definite possibility, especially in smaller tanks.>
I'm new to anemones so any information about what happens after their death would help.
<They can fall to pieces, and are very hard to get out of the water in one piece. You may need to siphon a lot of it out. It smells horrible, and will cause an ammonia spike. You will need to do several large water changes over the next few days. Having a supply of premixed saltwater is always recommended for emergencies. I recommend researching their care several months in advance so you can eliminate the chances of it dying. More information here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/cnidaria/anthozoa/anemones.htm >
Thank you very much, Bobby
<You’re welcome! Brenda>

Help requested. Reef toxic event... Holothuroids? Algae?    02/17/07
G'day Bob,
Loved the Conscientious Keeper & sell it regularly in store....
<Ah, good>
But flattery is not what has led me to correspond.
I was wondering if it would be possible to pick your brains.
<Only have a mite left... but go ahead>
I realize you must get no end of requests, but I am stumped at the moment, and could really use some help.
I am a retailer in Australia, been keeping marines for 20+ & reef for 15 or more, but I have a problem tank at the moment that I can't get a grip on...
The tank in question is a 5 * 2 * 2 1/2 foot reef  with deep sand bed (crushed marble chip) 3" deep  closed loop circ system, (6000 LPH)  main return pump  (6000 LPH) (rainbow lifeguard quiet ones in both cases)
One 2,300 LPH powerhead mounted close to surface of water.
Nutrient export via a Turboflotor 1000 skimmer  ( on for ~14 hrs a day, off for a couple of hours while dosing supplements)
<Good technique>
Bare sump no trickle
Tank has a 25 litre refugium
<Am sure we both wish this were larger>
fed from main outflow line from tank, & fuge has been lit 24 / 7 in past, but lights are off now.
(more on this later)
Tank is equipped with a chiller, and runs at a constant 25 deg C.
Tank contains approx  125 kg liverock  (270 lb)
Various corals ranging from Sarcos to fungi's, Duncanopsammia, Scolymia, Turbinarias, Morphs, and until recently a 14 year old Tridacna (sadly departed but not related to this story directly)
All Supplements used are Seachem, apart from one liquid coral food that we use from a different manufacturer.
Main aquarium lit by 2 * 250w 13,000 k halides  Fuge is lit using a 24 watt 50 /50 actinic 10k PL power compact .
Tank usually runs at......
P.H.  8.0  - 8.2
SG  1.024
KH  9 - 11 dKH
nh3  0.3  - 0.5  ( not 100% happy with the zero on the test kit though,  
Hagen ammonia kit in use)
No2  0
no3  Currently ~ 5ppm  but  sometimes as high as 10
Ca++  420 today, targeting 450 as a rule.
PO4  under .5 ppm today.
Additives used:
Reef builder for KH buffering   Reef buffer when necessary for P.H.  
(Not frequent)
Reef magnesium
Reef strontium Reef Iodide  and Reef Plus ( which is a multi vitamin / amino acid supp. Magnesium strontium & Iodide are not tested for currently, Seachem's basic dose rates are used.
W/changes of  175 litres  (from 750)  performed when NO3 is on the rise
So much for the overview, here's the problem.
Corals look good,
My fish keep dying.
<Mmmm>
Around 3 months ago, a sudden procession of deaths took out
Zebrasoma flavescens
Lo vulpinus
//Synchiropus splendidus//
Amphiprion ocellaris  ( over 8 years in captivity )  :'(
Rock hopper blenny  (Salarias sp.)  *  3 in rapid succession
<Something toxic, amiss... that doesn't affect Cnidarians>
and also during the past few months all cucumbers (H. edulis predominantly but not exclusively) seem to have vanished, though a number of strombid shell are still active in turning over the sand bed.
<... a clue here>
I have saved one half of the clown pair which is currently in a hospital tank, but there is a comet grouper C. altivelis which due to  difficulty in removal has sat in the tank apparently unaffected for the entire time.
I placed a Sailfin tang Z. veliferum into the tank 4 days ago,      Dead overnight
I placed a Salarias blenny suspended in a restricted net so the animal could not eat anything from within the tank and would be protected from any predation  (none suspected),      Dead overnight I  have had a (I'm pretty sure) Dinoflagellate bloom in the refugium on & off over the last few months but the lighting on the fuge has been off for a number of weeks, & there is no trace of anything macro or micro algae wise...  (coralline growth in main tank is excellent by the way) I am running out of thoughts, and any steers in any direction would be greatly appreciated if you can spare the time.
Thanks in advance,
Bruce.
<My primary suspect here is the Sea Cucumbers... they can be extremely toxic to fish life, leaving other phyla unscathed... But the mention of the Diatom bloom... brings to mind the possibility that an algae toxicity might be at root... In either case, a very large water change and the use of chemical filtrants is the route I would take here (a kilo of activated carbon, perhaps a couple of pads of PolyFilter)... and the careful testing (in a week or so) of the water/system with a tough fish... perhaps a couple of damsels. Unfortunately, as of yet, there are no good, inexpensive means to test for such random toxicities... but I can see this in the coming years. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Dead puffer with cut open side; Tetrodotoxin release ? – 04/16/07
Hey, How are you all today?
<Hi. Don’t know about the others, but I’m ok.>
Well last week my puffer died due to ich. I tried everything to get rid of the darn parasite, but nothing has helped.
<Sorry for your loss. Much too common with porcupine puffers.>
I worked up to see my porcupine puffer dead. I couldn't recognize the fish. The skin was off and his under side was cut open (yes I saw his stomach!!). I don't believe my eel attacked it, because my eel would maybe be dead due to toxins. I'm guessing my starfish tried to eat it, but left it alone after it tasted the puffer.
<Not necessarily. Moray eels are resistant to several similar toxins, so, although I do not have specific information about them and Tetrodotoxin (marine puffer toxin), it seems well possible for moray eels to eat puffers. However, in your case I suggest he tried to puff (as they often do before they die) and his connective tissue (weak due to whatever reason) and skin cracked. I have seen such cases or/and the results in tanks with no other fish.>
My question is: did toxins release from the puffer into the water?
<Improbable. Tetrodotoxin does not dissolve well in saltwater. In contrast, boxfish (not puffers) can secrete ostracitoxin (informal name for the still unnamed boxfish poison), which does dissolve in saltwater. To be on the safe side you may want to filter with fresh carbon.>
It seems like my lionfish wants to eat, but he can barely open up his mouth to grab the food. Any thought?
<Watch him. Could be lock jaw, which in general is supposed to be caused by an unvaried diet or vitamin deficiency. Could also be a sign of an infection with the parasite your puffer had. See if he is breathing heavy to confirm.>
Oh, I'm also selling the aquarium setup if your interested! Thanks! Ben.
<Take care. Marco.>

Hebrew Cone (Conus ebraeus), Poisonous? Yes!  Degree of toxicity... ?   5/13/07
Hello crew,
<Hi Jana, Mich here.>
I am trying to find on the Internet how poisonous the Conus ebraeus is?
<Well it does kill it's prey, primarily Eunicid and Nereid Polychaete worms, by injecting them with conotoxin, a potent neurotoxin that disturbs the ion channels involved in neuromuscular transmission, typically resulting in paralysis.>  
I found information on other cone shells but not on this particular one.
<Yes, I too am having difficulty finding anything specific to this particular species.  There are more than 600 members of the Conidae family and only 30 documented cases of envenomations by Conus in humans, some resulting in death.  The most toxic is reported to be Conus geographus, though C textile, and C marmoreus are also associated with an increased of mortality.  I have been unable to find any reports describing the degree of toxicity of the conotoxin associated with C. ebraeus, but it is certainly something to take seriously and the effect of the conotoxin would likely vary between individuals.  Also worth noting is current research on members of this family for the treatment of pain and conditions such as Parkinson's.>
Is it found in Australia and how poisonous is it.
<The distribution of Conus ebraeus occurs in the Indo-west Pacific and Eastern Australia as far south as Sydney.
Many thanks, kind regards, Jana.
<You're welcome.  Mich>

Nudibranch/Anemone Slime Upsetting Fish? Yep! 6/6/07
Hello,
<Greetings, Mich with you today.>
I had a quick question about the effects of Nudibranch or anemone slime on fish. I added a rock flower anemone, a couple Cerith snails, and a lettuce Nudibranch (I got a bit of hair algae for him to get rid of) into my tank today and while acclimating them and adding them into the tank a great deal of the slime they had produced while in their bags went into the water.
<Yikes!>
I tried to remove some of it but couldn't get it all. Anyway, about 2 hours after adding in these items my four fish (2 true Percs, a bicolor blenny, and a purple Pseudochromis) began to scratch their faces/ gills on rocks.
They then stopped for a while but began to scratch again a few hours later.
<Likely a reaction to the toxins introduced into the system.>
I have had a problem in the past with ich but I made sure to quarantine all the fish for 6 weeks using hypo salinity and left the main tank free of fish as well. The hypo salinity seemed to work as all the fish returned to a relaxed state and their symptoms of ich went away so after their long quarantine period they were reintroduced into the main tank. It has been 2-3 months since this outbreak and they have shown no signs of ich since. I have also added no new fish into the tank since then.
<Ok.>
Basically, my question is whether or not their sudden scratching could be from the introduction of these new inverts and the slime they produced during their long journey from the fish store or if the fish have ich or some other parasite infestation again and just be chance they didn’t begin to feel it until 2 hours after I introduced the new items?
<Probably a result of the chemical hazards added to your tank.>
After testing my water my results were normal.
<Ok.>
In your opinion, should I prepare for a possible parasite infestation or wait and observe the fish before acting?
<I would wait and observe, though this stress response can weaken the immune system allowing parasitic organisms a more favorable foothold.>
Also, do fish ever scratch on rocks to mark territory?
<Mmm, not that I'm aware of.>
I am guessing the answer is no but it was worth asking because my fish seemed to all scratch on the rocks around the same time and then suddenly stop almost in unison.
<Again, no doubt a response to environmental stress. You should add an extra bag of carbon ASAP and consider a larger water change.>
Thanks for any advice you can give me and sorry if this has been answered before.
<Hope this helps. Mich>

Marine Question/s... mis-stocked SW, no Q, mis-treated, Crypt infested, poisoned...  – 07/24/07
Hello. I'm new to the sport of Marine Fish keeping. I have a 55G, with a protein skimmer rate for up to 70G, a large powerhead, and dual bio wheel filter. 140 pounds of live rock, and 80 pounds of live sand. I have 3 clowns,
<All of the same species I hope/trust>
2 chromis, 1 yellow tang, 1 Naso tang
<Not enough room for this genus/species here>
and 1 yellow boxfish.
<Do read re this last... on WWM>
Also had about 12 hermit crabs, and 10 snails. The boxfish was the last addition. Everything was going perfect, all levels at 0, then suddenly that changed......the boxfish had a spot on it's back where it was still yellow, but more pale, the LFS toll me that was because he was getting older and he was changing colour. Turns out it was the start of ick, or something?
<Maybe>
Anyway, within a few days he was covered in ick, which transferred to all my other fish. I tried Kick-Ick
<Worthless... and you added this nonsense to your main system... Mistake>
for 7 days which did nothing, I had to turn my protein skimmer off to use the stuff, and my ammonia went crazy, up to 4.0 or higher!
<... toxic>
I stopped with that treatment after some fish died (the box and Naso) Put the protein skimmer on, got my levels back to normal, then started copper a/p LFS. Well the instructions on the bottle were terrible, and I ended up overdosing. I quickly did water changes till I got the dose back down. All my bristle worms came out and a lot of them died on the sand. I treated with copper for 2 days
<?>
at 0.25, but everything else died except the yellow tang and 1 chromis. The yellow tang has a small red spot under it's side but no sign of ick, same with the chromis. So I stopped the copper,
<...>
put my carbon back in to remove the copper because it was killing everything. So now I'm left with my tank with a bunch of dead stuff (took out whatever I could, some worms can't get at them unless I totally tear down everything). Known alive are 1 5" bristleworm, 2 large hermit crabs, 3 small, 2 snails, 1 yellow tang and 1 chromis.
My water levels are back in check. Where do I proceed from here? I'm scared of getting more fish and them dying on me again. I don't know what my next step is?
Help!?
<With what?>
ps. I don't buy from the LFS that sold me the boxfish anymore! Aging spot my A@@!
I don't get a chance to look at your website all the time, any chance you could e-mail me back what you think my next move is? Thanks so much, your site is amazing!!!!!!!!!!
<Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/parasittksfaqs.htm
and the linked files above... Bob Fenner>

Blenny Death Question – 07/18/07
Hello,
We have an office tank 90 gallon. Although I know a lot about the tank we have a professional come in and do water changes etc. ...
Last week we could not find the Blenny fish and never did and then 3 days later the flame angel died. We take the fish out as soon as we see them dead but were unable to find the Blenny. All the water chemistry and temperature were in normal range but all the fish began having problems, ick and dying off. My question is could the Blenny have spiked the tank upon dying? Also we had an explosion of tiny white sand stars (I don't know what they are exactly) come out and they were everywhere after we noticed the flame dead. We had 4 or 5 small fish die and there are 3 left to go. (Probably tonight) They are not doing good.
We cant figure it out and wondered if it could be the Blenny who polluted the tank.
Thanks for your help!
Nancy
<Greetings Nancy, Jim here.
A 90 gallon tank is more than large enough to withstand the death of your blenny without spiking even a little bit. Something else is at work here, and has caused not only the death of your blenny, but the deaths that followed. Ick (C. irritans) has been introduced into your system somehow, and at this point, without more information, I'm leaning towards this pathogen as the cause of your problems - not the result of some other problem.
Have you added any fish recently? Are you in the habit of quarantining new arrivals? Give me a bit of information as to how you have stocked this tank.
Cheers
Jim >

Worst case scenario. Vacation Wipe Out, Restarting 7/24/07
Hi Bob and crew,
<Hello>
My tank of 1 year old got wiped out and I don’t know what to do. Please help!!!
<Will try>
Here is the situation…
I went on vacation and left the fish to a nice lady to care for them. The saddle back puffer died (after being harassed by a pair of tomato clowns) shortly after I left and no one was there to remove him until at least 24 hours later. Apparently, the dead puffer released its toxin that killed most everything else in the tank. <Does happen fairly often.> When the lady showed up the next day, she was horrified by the scene and didn’t know what to do. All the dead fish was left in the tank for another day until she finally tracked me down and
got instructions to remove them. By that point, the few survivors gone belly up also. There are over 30 casualties all together. <Wow> She removed all the dead fish she could finds and I asked her to leave the system running in the hope that at least the live rocks could be saved.
I came home late last night after two weeks of vacation. The tank is full of algae, but otherwise completely lifeless. Everything is dead, including anemones, starfish, snails and corals. <Welcome back.> I couldn’t even find any copepods in the gravel anymore. <Probably a few did make it.> Additionally, a few dead fish been stuck behind some rock works while decomposing for two weeks. There appears to be a white fungus that cocoons the rotted fish under water. Needless to say, I am totally grossed out. Interestingly, the little Seachem ammonia indicator tag is showing a safe level of ammonia in the water.
<Shows you the value of those indicators.>
I feel really bad for the lady and worst for the fish. Incidentally, one of the filters sprung a leak last year while she was taking care of my tank.
Water continuously leaked all over the hardwood floor and she had to mop it all up and did repairs while she had me on the phone. Poor thing! I am sure she’ll run away the next time I mention the word “vacation”.
<Hope you got her something nice.>
Anyway, here are my questions:
1. Could a little Toby puffer be so full of toxin as to have wiped out the tank? <Yes>
2. After the cleanup of dead fish, do I need to do anything more then just changing the water and filters material? <Probably need lots of water changes to get the nutrient levels back in line, but nothing beyond that.>
3. Are the live rocks and sand dead/poisoned? <Can still be used.>
4. Do I need to cycle the tank again? <Is cycling now I bet.>
Thanks!
-Hoshing
<You are starting from scratch here, need to recycle the tank, add a few pounds of new live rock to reseed everything and give it some time to get back up and running. Now I need to go call the women watching my tank while I'm here in Hawaii.>
<Chris>