FAQs about Zoanthid Health, Pests, Predators
FAQs on Zoanthid Disease:
Zoanthid Health, Pests, Predator 1,
Zoanthid Health, Pests Predators 2,
Zoanthid Health, Pests, Predators 3,
Zoanthid Hlth., Pests, Pred.s 4,
Zoanthid Hlth., Pests, Pred.s 5,
Zoanthid Hlth., Pests, Pred.s
FAQs on Zoanthid Disease by Category:
Pathogenic (Infectious, Parasitic, Viral)
Related Articles: Zoanthids,
Sea Mat: An
Ocean Of Color For The Aquarium by Blane Perun,
Zoanthids, Zoanthids 2, Zoanthids 3, Zoanthid ID, Zoanthid Behavior, Zoanthid Compatibility, Zoanthid Selection, Zoanthid System, Zoanthid Lighting, Zoanthid Feeding, Zoanthid
Aiptasia Quarantine Time 6/14/17
I have display tank which contains a handful of coral specimens, mostly
Zoanthids, but this tank also suffers from an Aiptasia infestation.
Infestation may be too strong a word, as they are well controlled with a
combination of wand removal and peppermint shrimp. At some point I would
like to remove and frag some of the coral for other tanks, but I fear
spreading the Aiptasia to another tank. I'm planning on a quarantine of
the frags prior to introduction into another system. So my question is -
how long would you maintain a frag in quarantine until you felt you
could confidently declare if Aiptasia free?
<Likely a few weeks would "do it" for me... giving any transferred pest
anemone bits to grow sufficient to be noted>
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Nudibranch id please 1/28/17
Hello there, I first want to thank you for previous help a long while ago.
My issue was dozens of hermits large and small disappearing completely,
shell and all. You (can't remember which crew member in particular) had
suggested it sounded like I could have a predacious worm. Soon after I
managed to find 2 large fire worms when looking at night. I managed to
remove the pair, and haven't lost a crab/snail/shrimp since!
But as for my current question. Yesterday I purchased some corals,
specifically a colony of Ricordea yuma, a colony if Zoanthids and a colony
of Palys. In addition to the wonderful turbo snail and emerald crab
hitchhikers I scored, this morning to my surprise I have a tiny Nudibranch
and a small starfish on my glass. The starfish is I believe an Asterina
(grey with 6 arms) but it's at least twice as big as any I've seen in my
But my main concern for the moment is the Nudibranch. Of course I'm worried
he could be the type that eats Zoanthids, although I'm hoping that the fact
that I have found him in the glass is a good sign. Regardless, he is in jail
for the moment. I should add that I have now inspected my new Zoas and don't
see any eggs as of yet.
I would really like to keep this guy if I can, so please tell me if
you think he is a good Nudi or a bad Nudi.
<Mmm; appears to be a Aeolid... do consume Cnidarians... often look a lot
like their prey>
I hope these photos are clear enough to get a good identification. He is
about a quarter inch long.
I would also like to know, if he does end up being a Zoanthid eating
Nudibranch, is that what they eat exclusively?
<Don't know; but too likely so. See the Net w/ the family name...>
Rather than killing him I would like to set up a nano tank to keep him and
any other future questionable hitchhikers but if he will die without
Zoanthids I guess I have no choice.
Thanks in advance!
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
What could this be? 8/4/16
Hi I found a few of these critters crawling on some Zoanthid frags. You can
not see these with the naked eye. I found them with a jewelers loupe and
then took these photos with my iPhone under a microscope. Hoping they are a
detritivore but I am fearing the worst. Thanks in advance.
<Appear to be Mites/Acarinans... I wouldn't panic. Bob Fenner>
trying to id a hitchhiker on my Zoanthid coral
I'm trying to id a hitchhiker that came on my Zoanthid coral. it
looks like it has tentacles and is very fast.
it seems to cover my polyps with a tough fibrous film overnight
and also has built a den type cave with a very tough covering, some type
of fibrous material and lots of very tiny white sea shells mixed in as
<Mmm; a Sedentariate Polychaete.... likely>
it's killing all my Zoanthids
<Unusual; what other life is here? Water quality measures? What changed
and I haven't been able to see any more of it than 4 small tan looking
tentacles that come out and if it sees a shadow it darts back in the
Any input I could get would be greatly appreciated, any questions you
have for me I would be happy to answer best I can.
Thank you for your time
<Can you send along a well-resolved, cropped, few hundred Kbyte image?
re: trying to id a hitchhiker on my Zoanthid coral
I've been trying to get a pic of what we can see on occasion, but have
been unsuccessful so far, if I can get one I'll email it right away
<Real good. BobF>
Zoanthids looking crinkled??? 2/6/15
Hi Bob and crew! Thanks again for reading. Your site and dedication are the
I started this colony with just three polyps 3 years ago in my 10 gallon nano
When I set up my 225 gal a few years back I transferred them over and they
exploded. There's are hundreds of polyps. They go through changes and phases
from time to time but this crimped or crinkled aspect that some of the colony
has is very odd.
<I see this... could be a few things going on here: Some sort of nutrient
deprivation (do you have N, P, K?; What do you feed?), allelopathy (fighting
amongst themselves, other Cnidarian life there), toxic reaction from... maybe
the BGA in evidence here....>
This had been going on for two weeks. They all open up. The picture was taken
after I fanned the rock so I was messing with them. Although they open the
skirts look so odd. Strangely the skirts with a lot of green fluorescence seem
to be the ones affected. I have scoured the site and I can't seem to find
anything about this exact problem.
<Oh, the above rather common issues are covered>
Just people who's polyps won't open. I figure that it may be from allelopathy.
Also, I don't have any nitrates right now. Water too clean? But no other of my
other colonies are showing sins of distress at all nor are my corals. Let me
know what this might be. It would be so sad to lose this gorgeous colony.
<Please have a (re) read here:
and on to the linked files above in this series detailing Zoanthid Disease. Bob
Re: Zoanthids looking crinkled??? 2/7/16
Ok. Thank you Bob. In the picture what looks like BGA on my rocks is actually a
dark red coraline algae.
<Really? Is it soft to touch? Slimy? Do you have a low power scope (with a USB
connection!?) that you can take a look/see?>
I don't struggle with nuisance algae problems anymore (for now). I'm going to do
some more reading on where you directed me. Thank you, Kinley
<And... we'll be chatting. BobF>
Re: Zoanthids looking crinkled??? 2/7/16
Hi Bob. Thanks for taking an interest in this. I do not have a scope. Although,
It used to be one of my favorite hobbies as a child.
I think I may have to invest in one.
<There are some FAB ones nowayears, so much tech. for such low prices. See
Your reaction to my strange coralline algae is very similar to the reaction of
my reef mentor. I had him come over and take a look at it 6 months ago due to
some comments that people online made about it being Cyano. He's been in the
business for 40 years. In fact he was the one that gave me your book. I live in
the mountains of Oregon and I have absolutely no resources here other than him
the internet and my books. He also thought it was Cyano until he touched it.
it's very encrusted on to the rock and not slimy to the touch at all.
He agrees with me that it is in fact a rare type of coralline algae. I've gotten
used to it over the years. It started in my 10 gallon nano tank, seeded from
some live rock probably and I guess liked the conditions. In my 220 gallon it
has covered everything. I would be very curious to hear your opinion. I have
found a few others on line who have this too. luckily there's a lot of purple as
well which does sort of balance out the visual aspect.
As far as my Zoanthids go, I believe you're theory that the nutrition is
probably the problem. I have not fed the colony very much and now it's so large
I'm sure it needs more. I also really don't have many nitrates or phosphates
right now which is also why I don't have an algae problem.. ugh...its so hard to
find the right balance.
<But so necessary>
I'm sending you a full tank shot so you can see how this weird type of coralline
has spread all over.
<No pic attached>
New to the Zoanthid Game... hlth., rdg.
Hello there! I just want to start out by saying this is the first place
I go when I have a unique dilemma. Anyways, i started a 55 gal tank
about 2 months ago. The inhabitants are a snowflake eel,
<Will need more room in time>
six red-legged hermit crabs
<... will be eaten by the Eel when they're changing shells>
and a turbo snail. Also, as far as Zoas go,
<Mmm; am hoping by your supplied title above that you fully realize how
toxic Zoanthids can be... IF disturbed/challenged>
I have a colony of radioactive dragon eyes, 1p of pink and gold, 2p of
orange bam bans and some other Zoa my friend sent me for free that I
have yet to identify (All got next dayed from the same person). The
dragon eye colony opened almost immediately after being put in my tank
but the colors seem to be off. The orange bam bans also appear to be
doing well. Their skirts are green but the center seems drab
orange/brown rather than that bold neon color..? I’ve personally seen
this colony in my friends tank and it was nothing short of vivid.
however, he did have the blue LED’s pounding the color out of them :)
The orange bam bans also appear to be doing well, yet they other two
frags haven’t opened in 3 days/4nights. have all the frags on an egg
crate shelf about 12” from my T5 light equipped with two true blue
actinic lights and one 10k daylight. I run the lights about 10hrs a day.
My water perameteres are: pH- 8.1 NH3 and NH4- 0 NO3- 0 N04-
Mmm... Do need some nitrate; and phosphate>
Alk- 2.0meq/L. Temp- 79. They were in a tank with ocean revive LEDs,
which seem pretty powerful compared to my lighting. What I’m trying to
get at is should I be worried that the other two frags not opening?
<In time; yes; cause to be worried. IF you have another system that is
established... I would be moving them if not opening w/in a week>
They look just like the others when closed and appear to be alive.
Should i try moving them farther down in my tank and see if they open
where its darker, or just leave them alone?
<Not likely helpful in terms of physical environment and DO wash your
hands carefully after placing them in the water, especially IF you touch
I also have two powerheads and sufficient water movement.
<Should I encourage your reviewing all we have archived on WWM re Zoas?
Right below Corallimorpharians. Bob Fenner>
Dark Red Encrusting Algae Killing Zoas... BGA
I have what I thought was dark red coralline growing in a lot of the
rock in my tank.
<Mmm; likely BGA>
All colors of coralline seem to expand rapidly in my tank, so didn't
think anything of this color.
<Does it feel slimy?>
However, over the last few days I've noticed that it's grown onto a few
Zoa colonies and now they are not opening, so I'm a bit worried. It's
the exact color of Cyano, but seems to be encrusting just like a
coralline. It feels slightly slick to touch and is fairly difficult to
scrape off, though with a fingernail I can scrape a bit unlike purple
coralline which won't budge. It appears to be growing mostly in high
light, high flow parts of my tank. Any ideas what this might be and how
to combat it?
<As we've both stated>
tried a few days of lights out like I would with a Cyano outbreak, but
no apparent effect. May try a peroxide dip or even Red Slime Remove next
(though have had bad luck with it once before so hate to even consider
it). Any advice is appreciated.
<Time to send you; have you read re Cyanobacteria and their control on
You know how to search, use the indices?
|re: Dark Red Encrusting Algae Killing Zoas
Appreciate the quick reply. I had discounted Cyano because this is
so resistant to high flow and manual removal.
<Mmm; not all; by a long-shot>
I literally have to scrape it to remove it from rocks and it's growing in
the highest flow areas of my tank. Are there growth forms/species that
don't follow the normal characteristics?
<See WWM or my Algae Control book (on Amazon) re. BobF>
Zoanthids behaving weirdly 1/20/14
Hello my name is Vinay I'm 13 and am looking to get into the hobby
I have had my tank for six months now and have be doing regular water
changes and maintaining my tank well. The tank has been doing until the
last few weeks my Zoanthids have been acting weird lately they all of a
sudden started to shrivel and within days started to brown. And every
thing else in the tanks is doing fine. I checked the perimeters and
everything seemed to be fine no nitrites ,ammonia and phosphates the
weird is that my Zoanthids are still multiplying the baby polyps
comeback fine the brown any idea what it could be.
<... in a word: Allelopathy. Search this and Zoanthid Compatibility on
WWM and read. Bob Fenner>
Button polyps acting funny..??
I have acquired two separate small pieces of live rock with button
polyps growing on them. They were fine for about three months and now a
few have opened up (all the way if you will) and wrapped down around
themselves. I have tested my water 8.2 pH, the tank is cycled and i have
10ppm nitrates and am running a protein skimmer. They all eat (even the
closed ones) when i feed them. Am dosing Fluval 3-Ion and running a
They have been like this for going on 5 weeks. there are more pictures
of them in my photobucket account.
<... what other Cnidarian life is in this system? Do you dose
If so, what, how? The NO3 is fine; do you have measurable HPO4? Bob
Re: Button polyps acting funny..??
2 small mushroom polyps and they are clear across the tank on a different
pile of rocks. All my fish are being QT for marine Ich but that's been
to 8 weeks now. So there is a cleaner shrimp, 3 hermit crabs, 3 turbo
snails, 2 bumblebee snails and a Fromia starfish. And my phosphate
<Ah yes; a problem. Search, read on WWM re the need for all
chemo-photosynthates for some/measurable soluble phosphate. BobF>
Mushrooms and Zoanthids... allelopathy, starvation knocked
on, reading and great self-discovery! 10/10/13
I have hard and soft coral systems that range from
Acros to polyps and everything in between. My levels are
acceptable if not near perfect for all of my tanks.
The tanks in question are a 75g drilled with 30 g sump. 80
watt led lighting, PhosGuard in a reactor,
<... you realize chemo- photo-synthetic life requires measurable soluble
carbon in a bag a week out of the month, SeaChem matrix, refugium, two
750 gph powerheads, 1250 gph
Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate 0
<... sigh: and measurable NO3. Please read on WWM re>
phosphate less than .25, alk11, ph 8.22
daytime, I feed a mix of flakes heavily, bribe
<Brine likely; Artemia>
shrimp once a week, phyto once a week.
<See WWM re this as well. Of little use in most settings>
Dose AquaVitro ions, calcification, 8.4, fuel once a week to where Mag
stays around 1300, calcium 420, iodine at .06, iron not registering with
my red sea test kit, but fuel has iron, so not sure if the test does not
pick up this particular type of iron or what. Potassium at 385.
This tank houses only soft corals and a tube anemone
<Cerianthus? Not compatible... see WWM re this as well>
along with fish and inverts. The problem I am having is with
mushrooms melting, Ricordea shrinking and detaching, and Zoas melting
<... after you're done searching, reading, you'll understand why. How to
put it/this: Your problems are obvious>
do great, leathers do great, polyps do great. Tank has been up for two
years and this started with just the Zoas 3 months ago. More recently, I
have a separate soft coral frag system, 200 g, 2200 gph pump, divided
into 4 stair step tanks.
One section has mushrooms and leathers, one has polyps , other two house
fish. My Ricordea are starting to shrivel and detach in this tank as
It has same readings and fixings except ph is 8.16 daytime, nitrates are
at 5ppm, and the lighting is 120 watts led 24" off the tank over a 75g
Both systems have skimmers, dsb, ample live rock.
<.... So... what are your choices? Provide or don't eliminate needed
nutrients, and either remove the Ceriantharian, or the other
mal-affected Cnidarian life. Keep reading. Bob Fenner>
re: Mushrooms and Zoanthids 10/10/13
What is WWM?
re: Mushrooms and Zoanthids... "I (don't) want to hold your ha ha ha ha
ha hand!" 10/10/13
I see, wet web media, what should I read and which section can I find it
<... the indices; search tool... on all 12k some pages... the topics
listed on your first query... B>
Re: Mushrooms and Zoanthids... comp. f's 10/12/13
So I read tons of post and answers on wwm. Thank you for the great
knowledge base and for answering all these questions so there is such a
vast reference to pull from. First I removed my tube anemone from my 75
and added carbon. I also added carbon to my 200 g frag system. Other
than carbon and a water change, which is coming tomorrow, is there
I can do to prevent this from happening again if and when it gets fixed?
<Mmm, yes; a few things. Principal amongst these is careful introduction
of any new stinging-celled life... The SOP mentioned over and over to
"mix water" back and forth from the isolation/quarantine with your
display system you intend to move the animal/colony to>
Also are the palytoxins from plays poisonous to the Zoanthids?
<Yes; some more so than others>
And why are they not affecting any polyps or leathers? Thx
<They are better competitors... less susceptible to Terpenoid warfare.
Zoa pest??? 8/22/13
Is the attached pic showing a horrible infestation of eggs of a Zoa
<... Looks to be an algae overgrowth>
The Zoa colony was hardly having a couple of polyps open but had a great
color so took it.
The Zoa is in QT currently and will remain for few weeks.
If you feel this is indeed pest them I win return it to the LFS
Also, if this is indeed eggs, any cure? Any gestation period for the eggs?
<... You need to fix whatever is malaffecting the Zoanthids... Likely either
some aspect/s of water quality or the proximity of a more powerfully
allelopathogenic Cnidarian/s. Read here:
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Re Zoa pest??? 8/22/13
I just got this specimen from the LFS and have not yet introduced to
This will be the second livestock with the other being a small Acropora.
So the stinging part is now not happening.
Just reset my tank due to Aiptasia.
So don't want to take any risks.
Have freshwater soaked and dried the rocks for 2 months on and off to
ensure total dry rock.
Even doing QT for macro algae.
How do I ensure this is algae or whatever and treat it???
<Likely will just "go away" on its own... I would just quarantine the
Zoanthid colony for a few weeks and move it w/ or w/o the algae>
Any resources in WWM??
<Not re this, no>
Should I observe behaviour for a few days to better identify the issue??
<A few weeks>
Btw, QT is just a 10 gallon acrylic long tank floated inside the main
One small power head for flow.
<Then in here>
No filtration. Just daily water change of a litre approx from display.
<Mmm, I'd get/use a separate system then>
<And you, Bob Fenner>
Re: Zoa pest??? 8/23/13
Why did you mention the get a new QT?
<You really could use this separate system... for isolation, quarantine,
The water will be changed manually from the display to the QT and from
there thrown away.
>Once a day; without filtration? Not the route I would go. B<
Nudibranch ID 1/11/13
Can you ID the attached pic of a Nudibranch? I believe it is the type that
eats Zoanthids, but I see no damage to any of my colonies and I found this
guy in the sump. Thanks!
<Mmm, yes... appears to be an Aeolid... do place the string:
"Aeolid predators of Zoanthids"
in your search tool and read re. Bob Fenner>
cropped and enhanced
|Re: Nudibranch ID
<Welcome Van. BobF>
Zoa hlth. 7/30/12
Hi guys! I’ve been fortunate until now not to have to look
anything up or ask any questions from you and your wonderful site!
I do have a problem now... I bought a rock with about 40 zoos on it.
They opened the first few days and then stayed closed. I know...
this happens but while they were closed, they started covering with
(going to try to explain this as best as I can) a velvety dark green.
They have since started to die. I took them to a great saltwater
warehouse (I know them) and asked them to look at it. They weren’t
sure what it was but told me to do a dip with my Kent Tech-D and gave me
some Revive to help them along. They still are closed... still
some dying off. Can you help me? Thanks so much in advance!!
<There appears to be a bit of BGA near the colony... this could be a
negative influence, but much more likely is some sort of allelopathy w/
other Cnidarians in residence. Read here:
and the Cnid. allelo piece you'll run into. Bob Fenner>
Unhappy Zoas 12/11/11
These were looking great for the first 2-3 weeks I had them, now
decidedly very unhappy. Let me start with my tank specs:
150 watt MH lighting, 7 hours per day
<A little low>
10-11 dKH alkalinity
<Boing! Need measurable HPO4 and NO3... this is at
least one dire issue... starvation. Whatever you're
doing to render these at zip needs to change.
See WWM re Zoanthid needs>
Two 425gph flow heads
Phosphate reactor w/maxi jet 1200
AquaC remora skimmer w/maxi jet 1200
I've measured and checked everything I can think of, Googled
for solutions and pictures, without much luck.
What's going on with these guys, and can they be saved?
Thanks in advance!
<Can. Bob Fenner>
Re: Unhappy Zoas, HPO4 12/11/11
I'm using a decent size phosphate reactor to get it down to
It was at 0.5ppm previously, and have been told elsewhere that
0.01 ppm is a "high side limit" for phosphates.
<Mmm, not so>
I target feed every other day with zooplankton and the occasional
frozen Mysis shrimp.
I found a lot of FAQs re: Zoas on the site, but did not find one
called "Zoanthid needs". Would you mind terribly
sending me a link?
<Read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/zoanthid.htm
The linked files above. B>
Zoa Pox and Weird Brown Algae Problems,
Please Please HELP 9/29/11
I know you are swamped with emails and I hate feeling like I'm
bugging you with mine but I need help bad. PLEASE! I have two problems
that I have no idea what the causes are. One is Zoa pox, the other is a
stringy, hairy like dark brown "algae" that almost ALWAYS
starts growing on and completely covers the sand during the day and
creeps up everything else with it's fine hairs and grows there too.
I don't think it's diatoms because I had that before when my
systems were cycling and this seems very different. It comes out only
when the main lights are on and mostly disappears when the lights go
out, just to come back out the next day all over again.
<Mmm, actually sounds like Cyano to me, it does show it's ugly
face in many colors. Take a look here. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/bluegralgae.htm>
Okay my specs and parameters are - 2 Biocube tanks (a 14 & a 29
halide)...both have the brown algae stuff and the Zoa pox. The 14
gallon has been up for 8 months and the 29 gallon has been up for 3
Neither are linked together by anything nor am I swapping water, though
I did in the beginning to get the 29 gallon started faster.
Both Biocubes have modified filter systems (I removed the tabs between
chamber 1 & 2 for increased flow, chamber 1 on the 29 gallon has 75
watt heater, 14 gallon has Biocube protein skimmer; chamber 2 on the 14
gallon has filter floss on drip tray with Purigen, filter floss, and
Chemi-Pure underneath, 29 gallon has half size drip tray with filter
floss where the water comes in to catch debris and Hydor protein
skimmer (which I'm having a hard time getting to work right when
water levels are always changing in the chamber); chamber 3 on the 29
has Chemi pure and Purigen bags. And I have just the stock pumps in
both. The 14 gallons 50 watt heater is in the main tank. Temps average
at around 78-79 degrees in both but can climb to 81 or so during a warm
Both have stock lighting but I have added 2 Reef Brite mini Mags for
added light and nice shimmer on the 14 gallon and a Stunner 50/50 strip
on the 29gallon to help simulate dusk and dawn. Dawn starts at 8am and
the stock lights for 14 gallon at 10 am and 29 at 11 am via timers and
then they both go out at 7pm and then dusk is off at 9pm.
Both have a Hydor Koralia Nano powerhead, about 1 lb of live rock per
gallon arranged for good flow.
I added dry sand not live sand in both. I have many corals but only my
softies such as Zoas, star polyps, and clove polyps are doing the worse
or even dying off a bit...though I haven't lost anything completely
My LPS like neon green candy cane, or my Aussie Blastomussa, or my
chalices and Duncans are all doing great. I even have a SPS Meteor
Shower Cyphastrea doing awesome and growing in my 29. I have 1 fish in
the 14 gallon (yellow tailed damsel) and 3 fish in the 29 (2 clowns and
a green Chromis). Also, 1 snail and a blue legged hermit in the 14
gallon and 3 snails in the 29. I know my CUC is understocked in both
tanks but for some reason I had a die off on half of my snails in both
tanks about 1 1/2 months ago and don't know why.
<Lack of food for them is likely, too many for that volume.>
Maybe sick Zoas were leaching toxins in the water?
<Likely some allelopathy going on here and the Zoas are fighting
It's really not a good idea to mix Zoas with SPS/LPS corals in
small systems for just that reason.
May want to read here as well.
Water changes are weekly, about 10% in the 14 gallon and 5% in the 29.
I use Reef Crystals for my salt mix and my own SpectraPure ro/di water
made here. I use a turkey baster to blow off the live rock about every
other day or so, when I get in there to scrap the algae off the
-salinity is just about 37 ppt
-PH stays about 7.7 but I've seen it as low as 7.5
-Ammonia has always been around 0
-Calcium (last checked 520+ in my 14 gallon)
-Phosphates 0 to an occasional .12
<Even though your nitrates are non-existent, most corals do
appreciate a low level of nitrates in the water. Somewhere around 5ppm
would be good.
Low nitrates help control Cyano to an extent, but Cyano is fueled more
by dissolved organic carbons and this is where an efficient protein
skimmer is beneficial. Purigen and Chemipure won't help too much in
Like I said, I have no idea what the cause of either could be and am
getting very frustrated and even a little disappointed. I love this
hobby but only understand the basics of it. Your website helps me
greatly to understand things much more and I'm very grateful for
it. I'm now a bit afraid to go on the forums and ask about my
problems here because I know I'll get a thousand different answers.
So I'm coming to you and asking you.
Please, please help! Thank you, WWM!!
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>