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FAQs on Acclimation Methods/Procedures/Protocols
Related Articles: Acclimation,
Acclimating Invertebrates, Acclimating
Symbiotic Reef Invertebrates to Captive Lighting, Methylene
Blue, Related FAQs: Acclimation
1, Acclimation 2,
Acclimation 3, & FAQs on Acclimation:
Rationale/Use, Tools/Gear,
Chemicals, Controversies,
Troubles/fixing, & Acclimating
Invertebrates,
Acclimation of Livestock in the Business,
Dips/Baths 1,
Best Quarantine FAQs,
Quarantine, |
"Different strokes for... " uhh, different livestock, situations.
For home hobbyists, commercial/transhippers... |
Re: How old are Bob Fenner's
articles ? Re:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/acclimat.htm,
Acclimation - 10/06/2009
Hi,
Thanks for your answer.
I do have one question more then...
Why not have the system water with same PH as shipping water and just
put the fish directly into the system and then let the PH raise in the
system ?
<Shipping water is almost always a much lower pH... Reducing the system
water to match it will unduly stress/kill other life for one... And not
making the adjustment outside the system will involve transferring
chemicals to the main/display that you want to keep out. A simplistic
picture of a complex situation. BobF>
Kent
Re: How old are Bob Fenner's articles ? Adjusting pH through
acclimation, cont. 10/8/09
Hi,
OK, thanks.
but if I have a system without animals, like a quarantine system for the
arrival animals.
can I have the PH low and put the arrival fishes into the same PH water
directly and then let the PH raise in that system ?
Hope to hear from you soon,
Kenta
<... the low pH will likely kill beneficial microbes, particularly
nitrifiers... as in a sponge or other filter you'll need in place in the
isolation/quarantine system. Do you understand this? Please re-read here
re commercial acclimation: http://wetwebmedia.com/acclimat.htm
the second article down.
BobF>
Acclimation/dip procedure for marine importer We're a freshwater
fish importer/wholesaler about to bring in our first batch of marine
fish. The success of this shipment from Indonesia will help test
whether we should invest in expanding to a marine operation (for this
trial shipment we're leasing tank space in the quarantine area of a
large retail shop). Although constrained by the time and money
pressures inherent in a competitive business, we want to do this right,
or as close to right as we can get. <Yes... know that marine
arrivals are more variable, volatile than fresh> Since we don't have
the luxury of isolating and holding all specimens for 3 weeks of
quarantine, we've decided to use a dip method to remove parasites on
arrival. <Worthwhile> Since the fish will have been in the bag for
30 to 40 hours by the time they get here, with pH somewhere between 7.2
and 6.5, we're trying to figure out a compromise between allowing them
to gradually re-adjust to normal marine pH and getting them out of their
ammonia-laden bag water quickly...complicated by the need to process
several hundred fish in a few hours' time. We'd appreciate your
comments and suggestions on our proposed procedure. <The best ("A"
players like Quality Marine in L.A. and Tropic Marine Centre in London,
"meet" the arrival pH with artificial seawater that has been pH adjusted
(with dilute HCL, aka Muriatic Acid, or carbon dioxide gas... which is
very water soluble) to that of the shipping water... flushing out the
existing water and mixed till there is no detectable ammonia present...
then flushing with new near seawater synthetic...> Here's our plan:
set up three 5-gallon buckets (actually several sets of 3). Bucket
#1 is salt water with pH reduced to some intermediate level between the
fish's bag water and the target pH of 8.3. We're thinking around 7.6?
<Should be near or at the shipping water pH> Bucket #2 is water from
the destination system. <Where are you going to get this? I suspect
you mean water of 8.3 from your system... which you'll use then dump>
Bucket #3 is a freshwater dip, also at pH 8.3. <Okay> All 3
buckets will be aerated for a couple of hours by the time the fish
arrive. 1) sealed bags are floated in destination system, if needed,
to match temperature. 2) a group of 6 to 10 bags are cut open, bag
water discarded, and fish placed in bucket #1 for 7 minutes. <As long
as it takes to slowly (over several minutes) flush out the ammonia...
i.e. run new water (ala bucket #2 into the container (#1) till there is
no ammonia. Better to use smaller volumes, less steep-sided containers
like plastic kitty-litter trays with holes in side or tilted at angle
here> 3) the fish are then moved to bucket #2 for 7 minutes, and the
next batch of 6 to 10 fish go into bucket #1. 4) the first fish go
into the freshwater dip, #3, for 7 minutes, the 2nd batch is moved, and
a 3rd batch is started in bucket #1. The time in bucket #3 may be
altered if a fish starts flipping out. <Do add aeration to all
"buckets"> 5) after freshwater dip, each batch is moved to the
destination system. Aside from just "what do you think of this?", our
questions are: 1) What should the pH be in bucket #1? <That of the
shipping water> Do we need a bucket #1.5? <Maybe, unless you
change #2 as noted above> Is seven minutes enough here? <Should
be... but the transition between 1 and 2 (or 1.5) needs to be made with
a test kit rather than a timer. You want to remove the ammonia from
inside the specimens... no matter how long this takes... drip or run
water from #2 (or 1.5) into each batch of #1 until there is no NH3>
(we picked that time because it was appropriate for the FW dip, but if
it's wrong for acclimation we can alter the procedure). 2) Should we
use Methylene blue? In which bucket(s)? Is there any fish group we
should NOT use it with? <This is fine... depending on the state of
health of the fishes it may help some or not much at all. You want to
observe all, continuously> 3) Which inverts should be FW
dipped? which ones should not? (I assume no Methylene blue for
inverts?) <I would NOT freshwater dip any of the invertebrates... nor
expose them to the air... need to use flushes of just near seawater
specific gravity (measure what is in their bags and match it) here>
4) We are still looking for an affordable source of tank raised clowns,
but in the meantime we do have some wild clowns coming on this order.
<... Where are you folks located? What sort of volume do you do? Have
you contacted ORA re?> Due to the pervasiveness of Brooklynella (or
"perconella" as some around here call it), we're considering adding
formalin to the FW bucket for clowns only. Good idea or bad? How much
37% formaldehyde to 5 gallons? <Very insightful... very common... and
yes to being worthwhile to use formalin in a dip/bath here. Please see
here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/brooklynellosisart.htm About one cc.
per gallon> 5) Speaking of T/R clowns, can you refer us to a producer
who sells to wholesalers (and not at the same price they sell to
retailers)? <Are you in the U.S.? I would try ORA:
http://www.orafarm.com/ if you want to look into importing from
the UK, TMC:
http://www.tmc-ltd.co.uk/aquariumproducts/tropicmarintestkits.asp>
We're also looking for other T/R fish, especially seahorses since after
reading the Conscientious Marine Aquarist we won't buy wild seahorses at
all. <These can be had from the above> Any help you can give would
be greatly appreciated. Sincerely, Keith Langley Nautilus
Wholesale Aquatics Denver, Colorado <Hope to run into you at the
industry shows (was just out giving a pitch at "Marine Showcase"...
would have come by for a visit...). Bob Fenner> Drip
Acclimation <Hi Rich, PF here tonight> Crew o' the New
Millennium: I currently drip-acclimate my inhabitants from LFS to QT,
and from QT to Display (after 4 weeks, of course). I have not lost any
fish or inverts to this method, but as my purchases get more expensive
(over $50), I am starting to wonder if this is a good long term
solution. Currently, I am too apprehensive about dips and the
"guerilla" technique. I have read all I could find under "drip
acclimation", and I see a lot of "slow" comments. What I need to know
is how slow. Could you give me some kind of "drips-per-minute"
guide? Over how long of a time? How often should you spill out some
water from the filling container, or only when it's overflowing?
Thanks, Rich. <Well Rich, I don't think there is a generic number. A
lot depends on the animal being acclimated. A very hardy animal could
take a faster drip rate (say a damsel), while another would need
something much slower (like any asteroids). The aforementioned damsel
could be acclimated in an hour or so, while the asteroids should be done
over the course of 8 hours, longer being even better. On the topic of
dips, just be sure the pH matches, and you are using non-chlorinated
water. It's an excellent method for removing disease organisms and
parasites from fish. I'm sorry I can't give you a more definite answer,
but in my opinion, there isn't one to give you, to much depends on what
you are acclimating. Have a good evening, PF> Re: Drip
acclimation Crew: <Hello again Rich, PF again> Just to
review, I was trying to find out general "drip rates" for acclimation
and was told that there are no general rules. Okay, I will take a
chance and give you my future choices, and hopefully we can agree upon
some sort of numbers. Now, if it is just too much to ponder, that's
cool - don't sweat it. 1-Bartlett's Anthias - Pseudanthias
bartlettorum 1-Yellow Assessor - Assessor flavissimus 1-Flame
Angelfish - Centropyge loricula 1-Scott's Fairy Wrasse - Cirrhilabrus
scottorum 1-Purple Firefish - Nemateleotris decora 1-Fire Goby -
Nemateleotris magnifica 1-Canary Wrasse - Halichoeres chrysus
1-Neon Goby - Gobiosoma oceanops (or G. evelynae) 1-Clown goby -
Gobiodon okinawae 1-Rainford's Goby - Amblygobius rainfordi
1-Lettuce Sea Slug - Elysia crispata <These animals eat Bryopsis as
juveniles, and other algae's as well when they are adults. I really
can't advise keeping them. Even if they are solar powered slugs, they do
still need to eat eventually, and if there's not enough food, they'll
starve. There food of choice, is unfortunately, a pest.> ?-Various
Hermits & Snails I don't mind being extra cautious, but I don't want
to drip a fish for 8 hours if it will do more harm than good. Is there
a maximum number of hours I should worry about for inhabitants such as
these? Should the "drip speed" have anything to do with the amount of
shipping water you start with? Like, you start with 2 cups of bag
water, so it should take at least 2 hours to drip 2 more cups? Does
this make any sense? Please forgive me. I am now 9 months into the
marine side of this hobby, and I badly want to move up from "novice".
Thanks, Rich <Well Rich, if it's any consolation, after about 14
months of reef keeping, and 2 years and some odd months of research
prior to that, I still consider myself a novice, just one with some
experience under my belt. I don't think you can do to long a drip, a
slow acclimation is always better for the animals. As a general rule,
between an hour and two hours for fish should be fine, with longer for
corals and other invertebrates. The drip speed example you give sounds
fine for fish, say 4 hours for most inverts and corals, and 8 for
asteroids. I use a 10qt bucket and generally go till the bucket fills,
with about 1 drip / every second or two (leaning towards the 1/second
side). It also lets me do a small water change in the process. Hopefully
this answers your question, have a good evening, PF>
Sri Lanka and Miami Fish Imports to UK - 7/14/03 Hello
Anthony, <cheers, mate> I have a few more questions for you
!-if you don't mind that is!!?!?!?!? <my pleasure> I am due a
shipment from Singapore and Sri Lanka tomorrow. I am not sure what I
will receive yet, until the packing lists come through tonight,
however I have ordered lots of shrimps from Sri Lanka and as
wondering if you had any tips on acclimatizing these? <dim
overhead lights, dark aquaria... not too long in the shipping water
as a slow drip acclimation will spike ammonia in the bag as pH
increases (a common stress on newly imported fishes). I vote for 15
minute or less acclimation for delayed or transshipped fishes. Its
the lesser of two evils to get them in the tank fast. Do test the
shipping water and be amazed at the pH> I know acclimatization
should be slow and steady, as they are very sensitive creatures. I
have ordered Lysmata shrimps mainly, but there are a few other
species Hispidus and dancing shrimps. <all fine> I have also
ordered what where listed as 'LT anemones'. the Latin name is
Radianthus Malu, <indeed one of the few that are remotely hardy>
but I didn't think this species was shipped from Sri Lanka, in the
past (about 5 years ago) when I was ordering from Sri Lanka, there
were many different species of anemone listed and all they sent were
carpet anemones! so I don't really know what I will receive! any
comments of acclimatization? <none to speak of short of
temperature... the anemones should arrive with little or no water if
they are shipped properly> other species I have ordered are:
xanthurus clowns cleaner wrasse Midas goby emperor angel
red starfish porcupine puffer dogface puffer percula clowns
neon velvet damsel flashback Dottyback coral beauty angels
yellow prawn goby feather duster tube worm <all good except
the cleaner wrasses... wholly unsuitable for captivity for anything
but the largest aquaria with the largest fishes (beyond issues of
poor survivability on import)> Cuttlefish I thought I would
give a cuttle a go - not sure how it will come in. <although some
cuttlefish can be hardy as cephalopods go... this is really a
creature for special orders and specialists only. I do regret to see
them ordered casually> I was considering an RX-P (Kent product -
main ingredient is pepper) dip for 10 minutes on all fish, before
putting them into the system? any views on this? <yes... I
personally would not take the product for free, and I would never
use it on my livestock. Methylene blue and/or Formalin are tried and
true for medicated dips. M. blue also helps with the
solution/absorption/saturation of O2 in the water Sorry its a lot
again, any help would be great!! Thanks again Regards, Sam <no
trouble at all my friend... best regards, Anthony>Re: Sri
Lanka and Miami Fish Transshipped 6/13/03 Dear Anthony, Thank
you for your reply! Unfortunately I had to place my order before I
received your very informative e-mail. <no worries mate... sorry
I could not get back to you quicker> Which is sad as i had gone
with a few powder blue tangs. I understand the problems with this
species, but I know that TMC (Britain's largest marine wholesaler)
sources this species from Sri Lanka, with much success, so I thought
if I used careful methods of acclimatization (as stated on your
website) I may be able to settle this species well. <agreed...
and true in part. But there are problems with this species and its
suitability in captivity far beyond acquisition. Few receive the
dynamic water flow and high levels of dissolved oxygen they need...
the very large/long tanks... and the strict diet. A magnificent
fish... but light years away in hardiness compared to Zebrasoma
species> It is too late now and they are coming. I will do my
best to save the ones in my box and next time I wont order these
fish. <do consider importing them if they are handled well... but
also try to avoid making them a ready staple for the uninformed or
unprepared. All part of being a good merchant and sizing up your
customers needs and abilities and educating them as you what best to
buy from you. Serving you, your customer and the industry at the
same time :) > I know what you are saying about triggers and
lions, but the shipper is notorious for packing large fish, and I
know I will wind up with massive lionfish! <heehee... brother,
ALL shippers are notorious for this <G>. Very good to be aware...
but use your money as muscle: make it clear to this and any shipper
what you will and will not pay for from the start... if they ship
you fill ins or inappropriate stock... don't pay, or don't reorder
without credit if COD> The triggers on the list were not too
interesting, only the standard Undulated (which i find very
aggressive), blue niger (which I have) and the Picasso. If there
were clown triggers I would jump at the chance to get one. <do
look at the black footed clowns from Sri Lanka... somewhat of a
rarity here in the US. Also, the Sebae/clarkii clowns from here are
breathtaking!!> Thank you for the advice on the Florida box. I
would really like some Atlantic tangs, as I have dived with them in
the Caribbean. These are not that common in the UK so these would be
quite special. <alas... they get to 40 cm as an adult! Good thing
you don't see many of them in the trade... would be heartbreaking>
I would like to shoal them, or keep them in a small group, but I am
not sure of their behaviour in such groups in captivity? <the
behavior is reasonably good... but they are a fragile fish... and
get quite large. I really cannot imagine too many private aquaria
that can responsibly house even three adult blue tangs as they
approach their adult size. Really best left in the ocean unless
special ordered for large/public aquaria> what are your thoughts?
also do juv.s do better than adults? <5-10 cm is likely to ship
best IMO> what size would I expect to come from Florida (I know
these questions are a bit 'dependable' but i should imagine you have
a better idea than i have) <be careful of really small specimens
so common from FL (under 4 cm). And definitely avoid all over 15 cm
(very poor shippers)> I won't order horseshoe crabs, although
they are very interesting creatures. <agreed> The hi hats will
also be crossed off my list, I haven't much experience with these so
I was ordering out of curiosity really (a bit un-ethical of me). I
will QT these fish as you said, I do have a substrate but it is only
fine white Silica Sand which is inert. I siphon this out regularly
and replace it with new sand to remove any 'nasties' in it. also
Decor is a minimum and lighting is subdued. When I unpack the
fish this is done under red light (I use a red light bulb in my fish
house just so i can see around) the fish are unpacked into small
plastic containers (about 8"X5"X5") with traveling water. the
containers are drilled with air line coming out as a siphon and then
system water is dripped in using air line again from the main tanks.
this is done for an hour then the fish are dipped (what are your
suggestions, i usually use system water with Methylene (sorry about
spelling) blue for around 2minutes ) then move the fish into the
main system. <outstanding acclimation protocol my friend. Kudos
to you> Do you think i should increase the dip time? <varies
by species/group... many would benefit from longer... but some would
suffer fatally (scaleless and small scaled fishes, dwarf angels,
etc) Sorry for the long e mail again! I hope you can answer my
questions! Kind regards, Sam Baker <no worries, mate... best
regards. Anthony> |
Wholesale Quarantine (actually acclimation) Protocol Questions
Hi Bob, How do you quarantine clowns upon arrival? <When I was
engaged in this part of the industry, yes. All wild caught
Clownfishes were quarantined... with/in the invertebrate systems for
such> I have headache with frequent massive death for Fire
Clowns. Sometimes Percula Clowns do die in mass too. <Yes. They
do here as well> Currently I'm using made in Japan yellow powder
in packet form to quarantine clowns before putting them into my main
tanks as suggested by some fish shops. <Likely a Furazone
compound. Useful> Is this the correct method? How about
quarantining clowns in controlled PH (8.0 to 8.4) fresh water with
Methylene blue instead? Which method is best? <A blend of both...
reduced spg, the "yellow powder" and Methylene blue... a bit more of
the chemicals and pH-adjusted freshwater bath/dip on arrival as
well. These matters are covered on WetWebMedia.com> Can those
sensitive fishes like Emperor Angel be quarantined the same way in
controlled pH fresh water with Methylene blue before putting into
main tanks? <Yes> Sometimes I have Emperor Angels having
redness on the top fin. What really happen and is it being 'burnt'
or suffering cut? <Very likely a "burn" from poor water quality
during transit/shipping... and possibly a bit from rough handling,
poor conditions before> Pls advise. Thanks for your help in
advance Charles <Be chatting, Bob Fenner>Dave Palmer,
PAF Hi Bob, Do you know Dave Palmer from Pacific Aquafarms
in LAX? Is he a big wholesaler there? <Do know Dave... a fine
person in the trade. A good sized "player", yes. He helps folks deal
in marine livestock from the tropical West Atlantic to the Solomons,
Fiji, Tonga, Vanuatu...> This is what I plan to do for
quarantining of wild caught clowns. I will bath/dip them in PH
controlled fresh water with Methylene Blue for short while. After
which I will place them in new marine water with 'Yellow Powder' for
hours of further quarantine until they are fit to be in my holdings.
Is this ok? <Yes... but do time the exposure. Most fishes can
take five to ten minutes (with aeration or addition of water to the
acclimation containers (do you have time to visit in Los Angeles to
see how others have made gear for this?)> Is it necessary to put
other corals or anemone beside clowns in bare bottom tanks in order
to increase their survival rate? <Please read through the marine
index and business Subweb on WetWebMedia.com re these issues. Too
much to state in a simple email. Use the Google search tool at the
bottom of the homepage with the term "acclimation". Bob Fenner>
Pls advise. Thank you Cheers, Charles |
Drip vs. Dip - Thanks for a great website and all the help. I
think I am starting to get it!! I have now read the Conscientious
Marine Aquarist, and all the posts about acclimation. I understand the
drip method, and I understand the benefits of a fresh water, or treated,
dip for new arrivals. But I am having trouble understanding two areas,
and my wife is headed out tonight for a new Six Line Wrasse and a
cleaner crew, so I better ask. 1) For new fish, when do you do the
dip vs. when you do the drip acclimation? <Mmm... good question. I'd say
for the most part I dip almost everything that isn't a known
dip-unfriendly fish.> Do you do the drip acclimation and then do the dip
right before moving the fish to the quarantine tank? <No, they're going
to get stressed from the salinity change anyway, so might as well dip
them and drop them in the tank.> Or do you do the dip as soon as they
arrive and then put them back in the shipping water to do the
acclimation? <Nope, once out of the shipping water, that stuff gets
tossed.> Does it make a difference which way you do this if they are
locally bought versus purchased online? <Nope, both should be dipped
whenever possible.> By the way, for the dip I was planning on using
a solution of ParaGuard (malachite green) in tank water with an airstone
(8-10 minutes) followed by a short freshwater rinse (5 minutes). Sound
close? <I'd skip the ParaGuard for now and just rely on the hyposalinity
to do its job. Six line wrasses are good for a little more than five
minutes... I'd go as long as possible. Just don't dip the inverts.>
2) What about dips for the cleaner crew invertebrates such as snails,
cleaner shrimp, scallops, etc. <No... about the only thing you could do
here is a dip in tank water with iodine added, but I'd hold off on this
entirely... and don't buy the scallops.> Since these are so sensitive to
osmotic shock, how do I treat these animals for possible parasites?
<Quarantine.> Is it safe to just do a malachite green dip on these in
tank water, maybe at a weakened concentration? <Heavens no, the
malachite green will kill them.> Do you recommend quarantining snails
and hermits? <Anthony Calfo suggests quarantining everything, I don't...
although it is possible that they could carry in some "undesirables",
the actual occurrence is very low.> Most of the posts and books are not
very clear on this point. Thanks, Rick <Cheers, J -- >
- Drip vs. Dip - Thanks for the response, but now I am really
confused. <My apologies.> So, I thought I had better ask for
clarification. <And I thought I had been as clear as possible.>
Based on your response below, it sounds like you are saying to forget
the drip acclimation altogether. <Correct.> Just do the freshwater dip
and then put them into the quarantine tank. Am I reading this right? <I
think that's what I said, yes.> What about the potential sudden pH
change causing problems? <Should be a pH adjusted, freshwater dip -
match the freshwater pH to that of your tank. There is stress involved
in this process, and there is no helping it. Getting two things over all
at once should be no problem.> Or, are you really saying to use the
drip method to acclimate them freshwater dip solution (ease the Ph
transition), <No... here, let's say this. There's nothing wrong with
drip acclimating your fish. Still... time is of the essence, so you
don't want to keep them in the bag any longer than they need to be. If
they've been in the bag for a long time - more than 12 hours, then you
should at the very least test their shipping water and make sure the pH
is not too low. If the pH is very low - in the sevens, then go ahead and
slowly drip them up to normal - no harm done. If the pH is in the
eights, skip the drip and go for the dip.> then move them to the dip for
5 minutes or so and then to the quarantine tank? <Quarantine, yes.>
Thanks (again), Rick <Cheers, J -- > - My new Fish
Procedures - Hello everyone. I just wanted to get your
comments/insight on a plan I have to introduce new fish to my aquarium.
Got to get a process down. <Ok.> Display tank: 125 gal, 6ft long,
over 160 lbs Fiji Live Rock (made into two towers, with bridge in the
middle). Current residents: Red Lion fish, 20 hermits/snails, and a
Sand Sifter star fish. When a new fish arrives to my home: 1) Remove
the fish from the shipping bag with a net, and place into dip tank.
· Dip tank: 10 gal, freshwater, 80 degrees, Methylene Blue treated.
Is it OK to add directly from the shipping bag like this? <For the
most part, yes. I'd float the bag for a while, just to equalize the
temperature of the water the fish is currently in.> 2) Fish will
remain in Dip tank for approximately 5 to 7 minutes. <Ok.> 3) Fish
will be netted again, and placed into the Quarantine tank. ·
Quarantine tank: 20 gal, display tank water, 80 degrees, Copper treated.
<I wouldn't just arbitrarily put copper in quarantine unless there is a
problem you are trying to treat. We're talking about compounds that are
toxic and there's just no practical reason to expose the fish to the
same unless you absolutely have to.> 4) There the fish will stay for
minimum 3 weeks. <Two would suffice - there is a tipping point at which
the fish will fare less and less well if over quarantined.> 5) Fish
will then be moved to the Display tank, with normal procedures of
acclimation. <I'd actually freshwater dip them just one more time on the
way to the display.> Fish I want to acquire: Foxface Rabbitfish,
Heniochus (2 or 3?), Threadfin, and a Raccoon (a French Angel or Naso
Tang might be alternates). Based upon the fish mentioned, does this
sound like a good plan? <Sure... plus a couple of modifications.> Could,
in general, the dip and quarantine be too much stress for these fish?
<All in all, no... is pretty much necessary.> Thank you for your
time, Daniel <Cheers, J -- > System for
Fish at new facility... another satisfied customer Hi Bob and
Crew <Evening> Since our last correspondence a month ago, my
holding facility has been cycling well....6 weeks in fact (system
details below) I had my first shipment from overseas come in 2 days
ago, and applied the Guerilla Acclimation technique....I lost no fish
from 160....BUT, some things alarmed me, and I would like to outline
these to you...please tell me if something is not right. I prepared
some mixing water...approximately twice the volume of the shipping
water....I added StressCoat from Aq Pharmaceuticals, and some Methylene
Blue ( but not a huge amount)...I added a whole bunch of airstones and
put the chiller to work....I lowered the pH to 7.5 as a preliminary, so
I could fine tune it a few hours later when the fish came in. When
the fish came, we opened a few of the bags and tested pH.....down in the
mid to low 6's.....was a bit of a shock !! <Heeeee! Happens>
....so we did the Kitty Litter thing with larger plastic containers, and
poured the fish and shipping water into these....put in the
airstones and waited 30 min.s....The fish generally seemed
OK......Tested the Ammonia during this time and the result was deep
Green ....quite high..... <Typical> Tested the pH again after
this 30 min.s and it was 7.2.......we then fine-tuned the mixing
water...... <Good> My 1st question is...is this normal?...
<Very> and with the pH rising 0.7 in 30 min.s on it's own drastic
enough for the NH3 to change and become nasty? <Can be> We then
proceeded to slowly ladle in mixing water....took 1 hour or more to add
double the amount than the shipping water, with the excess draining of
through holes drilled in the trays.....tested Ammonia again, and it was
still high, but not quite as high.......but the pH had risen again by a
little. <Ahh... yes> I started to worry a little, but the fish
seemed to be generally OK.........My system water was then slowly
added......parameters for system water as follows, Ph 8.3, dKH 8,
Salinity 1.023, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, Phosphate all Nil....calcium
380..D.O 6+, and temp 24.5 Celsius....... Over the next 2 hours, we
slowly added system water until the pH was 8.2 (pH was monitored
constantly throughout this process)....... We prepared a freshwater
dip to 8.2 also, and added a few drops of Formalin....in your article it
said an ounce per gallon, but the bottle said a couple of drops per
gallon...so I was really confused and went with a few drops........added
2 Yellow Tangs to try.....and they went ape in the Freshwater
Bath......needless to say we then dispensed the rest of the fish into
the system without the dip.... Within a few minutes 3 Yellow Tangs
and a Declivis started to swim crazy loop the loop configurations......
<Again... par for the course> However....no dead fish !!!!
<Amazing, eh?> Please read through what I did and let me know if
there is anything I did wrong, or need to do better, as I have a
Shipment from Brazil coming in 2 days, and these guys will have been in
bags for 50 hours.....albeit in a damn sight more water than the Hawaii
shipment...... Thanks in advance for your valuable advice. JD
<More and more valuable as you consider... Bob Fenner>
Acclimation Techniques Hi, <Hi there! Scott F. here today!>
We are trying to eradicate ich. When giving a freshwater bath to new
arrivals prior to quarantine, you article indicated to match PH to the
New Tank's water. 1) Shouldn't we acclimate the fish with a few cups of
water before putting him/her into the Dip? It seems that shipping water
may be a much lower PH than a normal tank - and we don't want to risk
shocking the animal. <Good point. That's my personal procedure.
Replace some of the water in the bag/bucket with water from the
quarantine tank, try to match the pH in the dip as closely as possible
to the quarantine tank, and proceed from there. However, I have seen
many people skip this step and go right to the dip without problems. I'm
not recommending this "shortcut", but I have seen it done before many
times. I'd take the conservative approach myself.> Also a couple more
dip questions: 2)Is RO/DI water with Reef Buffer the best thing to use
for a new fish? We saw the post where someone's fish died after they
used distilled water and are getting a little paranoid. <I'd aerate
the RO/DI before using it> 3) Should we also dip fish before adding
to fallowed tank who have been in quarantine 2 months with no signs of
ich? <I'd probably pass under these circumstances. They don't need
any additional stress> If so, how long would you recommend for a
Watchman goby and Hippo tang? Thanks as always!!! Doug <As above.
Sounds like you're doing things right! Best of luck to you! Regards,
Scott F.> Acclimation before and after dip/quarantine
2/22/06 Hi Bob, <Joe> First up, I think your website is a
great, a good stress reliever, in particular for myself, being new to
saltwater. I've had much hesitation over whether to operate a quarantine
tank but I must say the website persuaded me to go ahead with it! ;)
<Yay!> My question is this: Upon bringing a marine animal home from
the LFS, what acclimation procedures, if any, should be followed prior
to carrying out a freshwater dip and then placement into the quarantine
tank. I am aware that the freshwater used for the dip should be of
similar temperature and ph to system water but I was confused (after
quite a bit of reading) as to where the normal acclimation technique of
slowly adding system water to livestock over a period of time exactly
fits into this process, if it does at all?? <Ahead of this dip/bath>
Aren't the fish stressed by being quickly moved from shop water to
freshwater and then to quarantine water without any
transitional/intermediate acclimation? <Sometimes... up to folks to
"evaluate" their animals' conditions... choose to do more/less in the
acclimation/dip-bath process. Bob Fenner> Thanks for your time,
Joe (Sydney, Australia)
Acclimation Weirdness :)
actually, clarification re some very useful techniques, particularly for
folks in the biz 1/25/06 Hi Crew, <Bora> Bora
here. I work in a chain petstore and after "mysterious deaths" of
saltwater fish, finally management decided that it would be a good idea
for the "aquatic guy" to receive fish :). That would be me. Personally
Bob F. is my idol <Rats! Wish I could sing> so I try to follow
him mostly. I had a great shipment/success with "guerilla acclimation"
but there was couple of things I was not sure. 1- I did regular
chemicals/differences check on saltwater except for salinity at first.
Went through the process. Original fish only set up I have is 1.021. but
after the acclimation I wanted to see what the level would be and the
final mixture in tub came out 1.029. So is it logical to assume the
vendor is keeping these fish at about 1.033 :) or because of the
evaporation and gas exchange the water in the shipping bags became
"saltier"? <Likely they were using natural water (1.025) and the
animals "added" some more dense material...> (I even thought that
since the vendor is in Florida, maybe they are cycling their water from
the very shallow waters of ocean might effect the situation but hey I
don't know much that's why I am seeking help lol) <Best to "meet
halfway" here or so... spg-wise... unless most fishes are very
weak... and to match for invertebrates, and fishes that live in close
association with invert.s> 2- Is there a reason for the black
Volitans lion to adjust takes longer time than the rest of the stock ?
(I am saying this by observing behaviour such as getting out of corner
and actively feeding and all) And also puffers in general don't do well,
either, whatever I tried. I usually end up advising my customers not to
buy "that" puffer. <Are slimier, and "moodier", and more
spheroid/three dimensional...> 3- (Freshwater question over same
type of acclimation) I had amazing results with Bob F.'s experiences
also, yet the rainbow sharks were the only ones amongst the whole stock
to get dizzy, and fell to the gravel after acclimation and laid dead for
15 minutes. Now they are alive and well. but what might I have done
wrong to disturb the rainbow sharks? Any ideas? <These minnows are
in need of high dissolved oxygen levels... and do suffer from the low DO
in shipping. Add vigorous mechanical aeration (i.e. airstone bubblers)
during acclimation/dips... and Methylene Blue if you have... and you
will experience much different results (better)> Not enough "thank
you's to WetWebMedia crew and Bob F. for sharing years of experiences
and the outcome of a lot of investments in any ways. Bora. ps: I
have to say that I admire Ali's professional attitude over the "t-5
lights" issue. <Me too. Bob Fenner>
Acclimation P & P
12/9/05 Lorenzo, you asked about my acclimatization procedures.
<Hello again!> I equalize the temperature by floating the bag in the
tank, and then drip acclimatize. I have used package water to describe
the water the fish came in and aquarium water to describe my cycled
water. If the fish/critters do not show signs of distress after 20
minutes, I increase the rate of flow a bit, or else, I reduce it. It
usually takes me about an hour. <I assume you control the temperature in
the bag during this time, perhaps by leaving it floating in a heated
system.> (I scoop out half a cup of package water for every cup of
aquarium water added). When the package is full of aquarium water
instead of package water, <You understand this condition is nigh
impossible, mathematically/chemically, yes? Nevertheless, that's about
the right way to do it.> I net (or in the case of the clown used a
specimen jar) the fish out and put it in the tank. Whenever I drip
acclimatize, I use the water of the QT tank into which the fish is going
and not my main display tank. <Sounds good.> I acclimatize again,
though not as extensively when the fish go into the main tank (just in
case) but by the add-a-half-cup, remove a half cup, wait 15 minutes,
repeat method until water replaced, then net and add. As you can see, I
spend a *lot* of my time transferring water from one place to another.
The temperatures in my display and QT tanks are the same (78 degrees)
but I am anal like that. <Good practice.> My angel fatality:
As for my angel, she had small strips of Sea Veggies and tang heaven
Nori around the tank on sterile ornaments to help her graze. I did not
wish to keep live rock inside the tank but I wished her to have the
opportunity to simulate grazing. I came back from work, and she was
dead. No other fish in that tank, except for a shrimp. A tiny peppermint
shrimp, nothing predatory. And she was an adult! <This fish may well
have been cyanide-caught, or otherwise stressed, perhaps by poor transit
conditions.> New fish in tank: I just want a fish that is out and
about, not one that hides in the rockwork all the time. If a royal
Gramma is a hider, then I'd like to give him a wide berth. I love
wrasses. I just don't know what wrasse could fit in a 30 gallon. I
thought they all needed 50 gallon or bigger tanks? <A six-line wrasse
would work, and they're quite busy. Not the flashiest colors, though
beautiful details.> Once again, thanks crew. Sweta <Always
a pleasure, Lorenzo> Acclimation worries? 9/1/06
Hello, <Hi there> Not quite sure who will be answering today,
but thank you in advance. <Me neither, but welcome> I didn't see
anything in the acclimation sections that answer this so here goes: I am
maintaining my quarantine tank 65 gallon fallow tank with large sponge
filter and Eheim Ecco 2232, at slightly lower salinity levels (1.019 at
82 C) when I receive livestock the shipping water can be anywhere from
about 1.024 to 1.026 - how should I acclimate the stock so that it can
be placed in to the quarantine tank? <Mmm, for one, you should
"meet" the specific gravity of the shipping water... Please read the
Acclimation articles again> Should I be maintaining my tank at
higher levels and then try to bring the salinity levels down later on to
try and inhibit the likelihood of marine diseases? <Can do...>
Or should I just maintain my salinity at a level that will be closer to
the shipping water that the livestock is received in? <Your
choice... some species (e.g. those that live in close association with
invertebrates, like symbiotic gobies... "like" higher/steady spg>
When the stock is moved from the quarantine to the main tank (being
maintained at 1.022) should I be worried about shock to the livestock
from altering the salinity in such a large increment in a relatively
short period of time (I usually take about an hour acclimating stock
from tank to tank) <I would move the new fishes environment to be
close to this over a few days time... no more than a thousandth in a
day> Any and all advice would be great - thanks. Aehsun <Bob
Fenner> When acclimating Lysmata amboinensis - 11/09/06
Alight thank you I will read on WetWebMedia. One more quick question
When acclimating Lysmata amboinensis. What is the best method to use?
<Very slow drip into an open container... a length of air-line tubing
either tied to reduce flow, or a nut, couple of washers, and bolt to
pinch/restrict. Bob Fenner>
Saltwater Acclimation/Dipping - 04/21/07 Good afternoon all!
<<Hello Kim...morning now>> I am having a hard time getting a
clear answer to the confusion I'm experiencing. <<Oh?>> I am
planning on using the Guerilla Acclimation Technique for the first
time (salt water). <<Mmm, I see>> In addition, I would like
to do a freshwater dip. <<Ok>> From here, the fish will go
to QT for the appropriate amount of time. <<Excellent>> I
understand that the pH of the treated water during acclimation
should be adjusted down to the level of that in the shipping water
(ex 7.8). <<Per the 'Guerilla Acclimation Technique' article,
yes. But keep in mind this article appears to be geared toward
those in the industry receiving fish shipments that may have been
bagged/in transit for long periods and that bringing/keeping the pH
"down" in the initial stages of acclimation reduces the toxicity of
the accumulated ammonia. I'm not saying that the procedure won't
work for the average hobbyist, but I think there is a more simple
process for acclimating/dipping specimens purchased from your LFS>>
I also understand that the pH of the freshwater dip should match
that of the QT tank water (ex. 8.2). <<Agreed>> If one is to
acclimate, as well as use a freshwater dip, where in the process is
the fish acclimated to the differing pH between the acclimation
procedure and the dip? (assuming that the shipping water, and
therefore the treated water for acclimation is lower than that of
the QT??) Because of my lack of understanding, I don't know whether
to dip first and then acclimate, or vice versa??? <I understand
your confusion, and scanning the article, I don't see the answer to
your question either. I definitely would want to match the pH of
the holding/acclimation system water to that of the quarantine
system before transferring the fish. I think this would be best
accomplished by slowly adding/replacing the acclimation water with
water from the quarantine system (This can easily be done "after"
following Bob's acclimation procedure and "before" performing the
freshwater dip). Once the pH is matched, I would then prepare the
freshwater for the dip (Ph and temperature adjusted)...dip the
fish...and place it in quarantine. Or more simply...float the
bagged fish in the quarantine system...add/replace water until
pH/temp are matched...net-out the fish (disposing of the water in
the bag)...dip the fish...place the fish in the quarantine tank>>
Thanks for all your help. <<Hope you find it
useful>> Regards, Kim in Boston. <<Cheers,
EricR in Columbia>><The pH should be allowed to "drift" back to
NSW... the same about as the water that the fishes are being moved
to next. With depressing pH through the use of inorganic acid (like
HCl) or CO2 gas... new water of NSW (Near Seawater quality) is
dripped, otherwise delivered into the acclimation mix, allowed to
overflow or be dipped out... over time matching pHs. RMF>Re:
Saltwater Acclimation/Dipping - 04/23/07 Thank you for
taking the time to respond. As always, your advice is always
appreciated. <<Quite welcome...is what we do>> Our new
addition is swimming happily and eating well in the QT tank!
<<Good news indeed!>> Regards, Kim <<Thanks for
sharing. EricR>> |
Compatibility/Acclimation 1/23/08 Hello crew, <Hello> I
know that you hear it a thousand times a day, but it's still worth
saying. You are the go to site on the web for information. Any time I am
ever tempted to get a fish/coral/ invert, I always check out what you
have to say about it first. As you have mentioned not every published
person is even remotely correct on certain issues; (granted there is
always some range within what is true). Anyway onto the questions:
One of my tanks is a 30g mixed fish/reef. It has been up and running for
9 months now and doing well since I added the Remora pro skimmer- lots
of hair algae before that now zero. Currently residing in the tank are:
False Percula Clowns Coral beauty- not a nipper :) Blue damsel
CBS <Coral Banded Shrimp?> Hawaiian Shrimp (Saron marmoratus) And
various sps, LPSs, soft corals I feed the tank a varied diet at least
twice a day and all my parameters are within acceptable ranges. My
question is this, who bit the Coral Beauty? <I'm betting on the Blue
Damsel.> If not as soon <?> as the bite out of the tail fin healed,
another two circular bites appeared in the same location. I would assume
that it was the damsel because of their notorious reputation but...
Lately the clowns have been hosting a Goniopora. (I know, hard by
itself, even harder with the pestering of clowns- I have noticed a bit
of recession after two months) Anyway, the female has become quite
protective of it's host. Is it likely that the clown could be the
culprit? <Both, as you say, this coral is difficult to keep without
the Clownfish agitating it. You do not mention your lighting and this
coral requires very high light levels to survive, and even at that, most
will not survive long.> Or should I go ahead and remove the damsel
and see where it goes from there? The reason I ask is because I have
never seen any aggression between any of the tankmates. Even when I
first added the Coral Beauty two months ago, I saw no signs of
discontent. Why all of a sudden? <With you being in front of the
tank, it could change the mindset of the damsel, more concerned with you
than the Coral Beauty. I'd remove the damsel.> Second question: after
reading the explanation of the two ways to acclimate fish and inverts-
normal and "guerrilla" I guess- I am still left with one question. What
is the purpose of acclimating a specimen to your exact pH, salinity,
etc. if you're just going to put them in a freshwater/ Methylene blue
dip for five minutes? Are you suggesting to just jump to the dip after
temperature acclimation? <I do not strive to match the pH and other
parameters exactly. A pH within .1 is fine along with an SG within .001
is fine. Temperatures can be within a degree. As far as the freshwater
dip, I'm really not a fan of dipping a perfectly healthy fish. Why put
it through unnecessary stress, much better to quarantine a new specimen
and treat only if needed. As far as acclimation, I prefer the drip
method. This type of acclimation will slowly adjust all the water
parameters within a safe time frame with no need to manually adjust the
shipping water. There are inexpensive kits on the market now for drip
acclimation.> Thanks for your time <You're welcome. James (Salty
Dog)>
Acclimation procedure, SW 2/29/08 Bob, re-write,
sep. FW, SW... <Done! 3/1/08> Bob, I read your
article regarding salt-water acclimation and related article on
Methylene blue dips. I am a little confused and concerned regarding
how many acclimation procedures to put the fish through. <There
are a few variations on the theme... depending on where you are in
the "chain of custody", the species in question, their apparent
state of health> When bringing fish home from the LFS do I first
acclimate them to the QT saltwater conditions or do I just start
adding/acclimating to the RODI treated water? <Most of the time
the former... some folks advocate prophylactic dipping/baths... by
hobbyists...> By treated water I mean RODI water <Mmm... I
would use tap/source water... the mineral helps, and using such
assures it has been at least likely aerated... RO/DI is gas-less...>
that is the same temp & ph as the QT tank, no salt added, but with
Kordon's Meth Blue, Malachite Green & NovAqua, (should I add dosages
as recommended by the manufacturer?). <Mmm, you could... I would
not generally use Malachite in a dip for livestock...> After
approximately 15minutes do I then start another acclimation to
switch the fish to the QT saltwater tank? <If you were in doubt
as to the likelihood of external parasite faunal presence, you might
dip/bath enroute from your dealer to your quarantine... IF you have
no such QT, a dip/bath may be prudent going from the source to the
main/display> I purchased the Methylene blue from Kordon Corp, is
this pharmacy grade, (I would assume it is since the President of
Kordon is the one who made the statement to you)? <You can read
Dr. Rofen's co.s stmt.s on the Net re> I know we don't want to
risk exposing the fish directly to the main display without some
precautions however I don't want to kill parasites at the cost of
killing the fish. Don't you feel that the fish is stressed moving
from the ocean to the LFS to the shipping bag to the dip method to
the QT? <Oh yes> Only to be moved at a later date into the
main display. Can the fish survive all of this? <Most can, do...
far less stressful than living on reefs> I am just wondering if
all these procedures adds to the stress of the animal and in and of
itself can increase mortality rates. Thanks for your input, I
look forward to your reply, Frank <The apparently
too-complicated methodologies are S.O.P. in wholesale livestock,
aquaculture facilities and public aquariums the world round... Bob
Fenner>
Re: Acclimation procedure follow-up question 2/29/08 Bob,
just a couple of last questions on this topic: you state below that
you would generally not use Malachite in an acclimation process
for livestock however in your acclimation article you state the
following: E) Additives: I endorse the use of Maracide and
Saltwater Maracyn ingredients for saltwater acclimation. These fine
products from Mardel labs should be used in similar concentrations
as for listed above for freshwater. From the freshwater
acclimation procedure: ...we add two more chemicals to the
treatment. As a matter of availability and convenience they are
Maracide (principally malachite green) and Maracyn (the antibiotic
erythromycin) by Mardel Laboratories. <Mmm, yes... you stated
you are dealing with saltwater, NOT fresh> Are you
differentiating between a dip and acclimation procedure? (If so
would you employ both processes or is one the preferred method?)
<Don't know if I'm following you here. These are two different
processes. Are distinct> I would like to follow a prescribed
method to give new fish the best chance of survival in my main
display w/out possibly introducing undesirables into the main
display/infecting established livestock: would you agree with the
following: bringing fish home from the LFS in a shipping bag 1)
transfer livestock & shipping water to cat litter tray, 2) start to
mix treated water into the shipping water, treated water is defined
as conditioned tap water, (proper ph & temp), with Meth blue and
NovAqua (HOW LONG SHOULD THEY REMAIN HERE?) <10-20 minutes
likely, with aeration> then 3) transfer to QT tank or Main
display tank. Or 1) mix main display or QT saltwater slowly with the
shipping water, 2) Dip livestock in treated tap water for a couple
of minutes 3) transfer livestock to QT or main display. Frank
<The former procedure is much better. Bob Fenner>
Re: Acclimation procedure LAST follow-up question 2/29/08
Bob, Not trying to be argumentative but rather trying to clarify.
<Frank... so sorry that my correspondence, indeed, old articles on
this important topic are so unclear. I assure you, the lack of
clarity lies with me, not you... Let's see if I can help here>
see below: Per your article on Saltwater acclimation: E)
Additives: I endorse the use of Maracide and Saltwater Maracyn
ingredients for saltwater acclimation. These fine products from
Mardel labs should be used in similar concentrations as for listed
above for freshwater. From the freshwater acclimation procedure:
...we add two more chemicals to the treatment. As a matter of
availability and convenience they are Maracide (principally
malachite green) and Maracyn (the antibiotic erythromycin) by Mardel
Laboratories. <Mmm, yes... you stated you are dealing with
saltwater, NOT fresh> I am dealing with saltwater but am confused
over your response of using Maracide (malachite green) as an
additive. I am assuming that Maracide and malachite green are the
same. <Is the principal ingredient, yes> Use with the
acclimation process or am I confusing your article? Frank <Do
note the statement in this section of the article: "Additives:
This, once again, is my own garden variety formulation for almost
all types of freshwater fish livestock. Specifications are okay at
approximate drops per gallon. In actual practice we re-use sixteen
ounce squirt bottles of standardized-available stock solutions."
Do you see that this statement applies to FRESHWATER livestock?
"almost all types of freshwater fish livestock"... The article is
written for both FW and SW applications... and is unfortunately
confusing. You are dealing with marine fishes, correct? Please
ignore the statements/sections referring to freshwater livestock.
Cheers, Bob Fenner> |
A Heartfelt "Thanks!" & SW Fish Acclimation/Dips 7/5/08
Dear Bob, >Joe< I have been a reader of WWM for several years and
would like to thank you and the crew members for the huge amounts of
effort, experience, wisdom, as well as common sense that has went into
the site. I have NEVER had to write because every question I’ve thought
of has been within these pages. In addition, I would like to give a huge
“Thank you” to both you and Anthony for the books, “CMA” as well at
“Reef Invertebrates”. I would like to encourage all readers to purchase
both because there is additional information not posted on WWM in these
pages that is extremely valuable! These are the most detailed books that
I’ve read regarding the hobby and I appreciate every word! I’m already
on my 2nd copy of CMA! <Heeee!> My first ever question is actually
more of a clarification. In the past I have not quarantined or dipped
specimens and have been very lucky regarding disease. This is all going
to change. After reading every acclimation article on WWM, every FAQ,
and every chapter (repeatedly) in CMA, I’m still a bit confused as to
proper acclimation/dip procedures. I know this is a relatively simple
procedure and I think that the root of the confusion that other readers
have had is from not actually seeing/experiencing the proper procedure
first hand. There is a big difference between reading and actually
witnessing someone properly acclimate/dip a specimen. <I totally
agree with you> I have done my best at compiling the information and
have created a general step by step acclimation procedure with dip. I
would GREATLY appreciate a critique. I believe that this step by step
layout will help other aquarists like me that have difficulty
understanding the complete and proper process. <Ok> This is a
general procedure for most common marine fish that appear to be in
general good health, 1) Upon bringing the specimen home, float bag
in quarantine tank to equalize temperature for about 10 minutes. 2)
Add an air stone to the bag and begin drip acclimating to quarantine
tank for 40-50 minutes. 3) While drip acclimating, prepare dip water
in separate container. Use pre- aerated RO water that is temperature
adjusted and buffered with sodium bicarbonate to about 8.2 <Will
only raise to about 7.8> (same parameters as quarantine) with or
without Methylene blue added according to bottle instructions. (Or
should this dip water be made 24 hrs in advance?) <New is fine> 4)
When drip acclimation is completed, scoop specimen with net and dip in
prepped water for 5-10 minutes depending on size and reaction to dip.
5) Net and place directly in quarantine tank 6) Observe in quarantine
for at least 4 weeks and administer treatment if symptoms arise. 7)
Upon quarantine release, drip acclimate to display tank (turn lights off
or dim) and release specimen. *Never mix bag water with quarantine or
display <Sounds good> Obviously there are other ways to go about
this. But in general, how does this look in your valued opinion?
>Fine< Again Bob, words cannot express how your and all of the WWM
crew's work has helped me and countless other aquarists. THANK YOU!
Joe W. Wichita, KS <Glad to help you. Bob Fenner>
Here's a very simple question I can't seem to find the answer to...How
does one get a sponge from the ocean to my tank in Kansas without
either exposing it to air or contaminating my tank with shipping
water?? >> Good one. Mainly by "Boris Karloffing" the water at
the last stages... moving the animal throw a succession of changes by
pouring off most of the shipping water and adding your system/quarantine
water to add volume.... ultimately, some of the "mixed water" is going
to end up in the quarantine, main systems... what you're shooting for is
maximum dilution. Bob Fenner New fish When
introducing new arrivals to the reef do you turn the lights off or
keep on for 24 hours? >> Most of the time I leave the cycle as it
has been... sometimes with a late (day) entry, I'll leave a "house" (out
of the tank) light on overnight. Bob Fenner
Q. I know how to acclimate fish when bringing them home from the store,
but what about a freshwater dip? I assume this would replace the
acclimation process? I know that the acclimation process is
important for the fish, yet it seems that a freshwater dip would be
important as well.-To get rid of any parasites. It is one or the other
right? Please tell me your thoughts on this. Thanks, Kimberly <R.
Thanks for writing Kim. Yes, freshwater that has been treated for
chlorine/chloramine, and buffered (often with just sodium bicarbonate to
a pH of about 7.8) is pretty much a/the SOP (Standard Operating
Procedure) for most all marine fish and invertebrate acclimation.
Purists do match the pH of the dip/bath water more closely by testing
the shipping water... and some people drip the new in, while others drop
out (by pouring off or transferring specimens entirely) all the shipping
water, to avoid "metabolite" (like ammonia) shock from the procedure.
Even after such acclimating efforts, it is still a very good idea to
quarantine the newbies in a separate system for a good two weeks.
Besides further avoiding the possibilities of introducing parasitic,
infectious diseases, and pollution, this "rest time" gives the new
stock the opportunity to harden from the trials of collection and
transport. This is (as you might presume) not the whole story either.
Please see the two feature-length articles on the topic of acclimation
at the URL wetwebmedia.com. Bob Fenner>
Acclimating
new fish? Hello, You have been giving me great advice on
restocking my 120 gal FOWLR. I am presently at the point of ordering
some new fish. However, I have a few questions before I venture forward.
I have a 20 gal. quarantine set up and ready to go. How many fish can I
safely quarantine in this tank? <One to a handful> What is the
general rule on this if any? <No useful general rules... depending
on temperament, condition... size half an inch of fish per gallon...>
Do I want to dip the fish first and then add to Q-tank? <Usually
yes... depends on species and their apparent health... some fishes I
rarely dip... and if in bad shape... I don't dip any.> Is it a good
idea to let the fish go through the hyposalinity treatment at this time
as a preventative treatment? <IMO no... a brief freshwater dip/bath
(ten minutes or so) going into quarantine and/or out will do all a
hyposalinity stay of days, weeks will do> Lastly, when seeding a
sponge filter for a quarantine tank should the sponge had been placed in
the sump of the main display tank connected or disconnected to the air
pump? <Connected is better> Oh by the way, I was thinking about
adding first a Miniatus Grouper, and a Clown Trigger. Next on the list
would be a Golden Puffer, and a Maculosus Angel. I presently have a
Stars Stripe Trigger would the Golden Puffer do okay? <Should be
fine... a nice assortment> I really do thank you for all the help you
have given me it has been very helpful. Regards, T. Finley >>
<Glad to be here, Bob Fenner Acclimation questions Dear
Bob, I read your article about acclimation of marine fish and had a
few questions. <Okay> The fish are initially put in buckets( kitty
litter pans) with an air stone and the final holding system water with
Methylene blue is added after lowering the Ph to match the transit
water. After 15 minutes the fish are transferred to the main holding
tanks. Will the fish suffer from Ph shock since the holding tanks
will have a higher Ph? <Yes, this is very, very common! And very
deadly/stressful... as you might know, there is often a large metabolite
concentration in shipping water... particularly ammonia (of which more
becomes ionized, NH3 to much more toxic NH4OH at elevated pHs... inside
and outside the acclimating livestock... during these transitions... The
best wholesalers "temporarily", often with inorganic acids like dilute
HCl reduce pH (to shipping water levels) during acclimation...> How
should the Ph be equalized before moving the fish? <Hmm... before...
as in before putting away into a holding system? Either the type,
apparent health of the livestock is "good" and the pH can be elevated
rather quickly by introducing water of NSW (near seawater) conditions,
while aerating the solution of pH adjusted acclimation table water (with
the livestock in it)... OR if the livestock is apparently suffering
and/or of a "touchy" nature (by species, size, source location...) it
can be left to more slowly (hours) drip in the NSW water overflowing the
mixed water to waste...> What is the concentration of Copper in the
holding tanks for fish and for how long should the fish stay in these
tanks? <The "active" ingredient, cupric ion... 0.15 (no less) to
0.3ppm (no more). Take care to understand the type of copper solution
you are using... check the manufacturers labeling... as chelated coppers
will give different measures on non-chelated types of testing gear...
and do measure frequently... at least twice a day... and re-administer
accordingly.> Thanks, Karun <You have asked questions that
would save tens, if not hundreds of thousands of fishes lives a year if
the protocol technology was understood and applied. Do share this with
people in the trade. Bob Fenner>
Acclimation vs. Dipping, plus some other questions Hello,
Bob. Although so many others have already said as much, I also
want to express MY SINCERE THANKS for your investment of time,
energy and money in making this website so useful to all of us in
the aquarium community. (And for sharing your knowledge and
experience in such an engaging and non-condescending manner).
<Thank you for your kind, encouraging words> With that, I'd
appreciate it if you could clarify something for me. Actually, as
I wrote this email, a few nagging questions also popped up, if you
please... Background: I've had several freshwater aquariums over
the years, and this is my first saltwater effort. I've had the setup
going for about 6 weeks, and the whole family is having a great
time. <Ah... for me the anticipation, planning is a huge source
of fun as well> Setup: 150 gal all glass, AMT Turbo insert (2
hi-flow Rio pumps, 4-layer filter [acrylic micron pad,
Chemi-pure, Nitrex, bio-foam]) Aquanetics UV (I know... but too
late to return) w/smaller Rio pump, custom-built PVC protein
skimmer, 2 6' 165w VHO bulbs on an Icepack, and 1 6' Actinic on a
separate ballast, Ebo-Jager 250W heater keeping aquarium at 76-77 F.
I also have been floating a couple of Algone bags in the top of the
skimmer. <I would add another 250 watt submersible heater...
perhaps at the opposite end of the tank> Substrate: total is a
good 3", 30lb. washed/sterilized tropical sand from Home Depot (this
might have been a mistake? <No mistake, problem> but it is at
the very bottom) 65lb. aragonite, 25lb. live sand, 20lb. GARF
grunge. Contents: 180lb. live rock, mostly uncured, from several
islands, including Fiji, Maori, Namoli, Marshall, and Tonga.
Critters: 150 mixed snails and hermits, 1 Mithrax crab, 1
sand-sifting starfish, 1 sm. yellow-tailed damsel, 1 sm. false
Percula, 1 sm. yellow tang, 14 various sm. soft corals (from GARF)
including Shrooms, Capnella, an encrusting gorgonian, Zoanthids,
wood polyps, green polyps, etc. Fish are all eating well, corals
are all open, swelling, and look happy. Actually, my tang (after 8
days) is still pretty shy and doesn't come out if anyone's up close
and watching. The Situation: Everything seems to be pretty good.
Ammonia is zero, Nitrites are low, maybe zero (I'm having a tough
time telling on the test kit I use. Is Salifert any better?)
<Yes, but not necessary> Nitrates are maybe 5ppm, SG fluctuates a
little .021 - .024 (I'm still gaining skill during top-offs and
water changes), <Mmm, place a small piece of tape on the upper
corner of the tank, mark it for water level... top off to this daily
if need be. You don't want more than about 0.001 variation in a day>
pH is 8.2 - 8.4, alkalinity reads a bit high, <How high?> and
calcium is 370 and steadily coming up. I had a substantial algae
bloom (several flavors, incl. brown, red, hair, filamentous, and
bubble) during the curing process, and certain coralline algae all
turned white. My phosphates were very high (over 1), and I've run
through two uses of Kent Phosphate sponge with moderate success
(down to .4 now). The critters have eaten a bunch of the algae, the
lower phosphate levels are helping, and I'm getting what appears to
be new coralline growth (purple, maroon). Unfortunately, there's
also a quarter-size spot of blue-green on a piece of branchy live
rock, and another piece (flat shelf type w/bumps) which is just
starting to get a slight greenish / blue-green cast. <This will
go> The Plans: I would like to start adding substantially more
livestock over the next few weeks, but don't want to be unwise. A
LFS about 45 min. away is having a 20% off sale this weekend, and
I'd like to start there. <Be careful here... particularly if
this is a "just out of the bag" sort of new livestock sale... often
trouble> I would then use my one-time 20% discount from FFExpress
the following week, and may also purchase some items directly from a
diver in Florida (mostly inverts). In a few more months, I plan to
add several hard corals from GARF (SPS and LPS). <Do take the
time to isolate, quarantine this livestock from such disparate
sources.> Liquid Assets: I use all RO water from a Spectra Pure
unit for which I have just purchased a deionization unit (to prevent
any new silicates from getting in that way. I use B-Ionic 2-part Alk
& calc, and am planning to switch to SeaChem when this is used up. I
used Instant Ocean salt to start, but will soon be switching to
"Marine Environment" (from Aquacraft). I have also been lightly
using Marc Weiss "vital" product and black powder, but now know that
may have been a contributor to my algae, so will discontinue the
"vital". <I would> So, (finally, you say), here are my
questions: a. The guys at GARF suggested I not run the UV or
protein skimmer yet, stating that I would kill off more good stuff
than bad. Yet, with my planned additions and algae troubles,
wouldn't it be good to start now? <I would definitely be running
both now> b. Does it sound like the system is at a point where I
can proceed with the my livestock acquisitions? (quarantine & dip
question coming later) <Yes> c. To lower my phosphates some
more, would you keep using the Kent product, or move to something
like Poly Filter? Should I keep pulling them down to "just above
zero" (since the symbiotic algae in the corals need some). What is
the chance that they came from my Home Depot sand? <I would go to
the PolyFilter, and try culturing macro-algae. Some chance the
phosphates came from the HD sand, but very small... much more likely
from die-off from live rock> d. I have also very high silicates.
We live on a well, so that's where some of them came. Could that
Home Depot sand also be a source, and if so, could that be ongoing?
<Yes, the HD/Southdown Sand product could be a contributor> Any
recommendations in this area? (Kent's Phosphate Sponge also claims
to adsorb silicates, once the phosphates are out of the way).
<Just use your new water treatment protocol... the silicates will
"cycle out" in a short while otherwise> e. If I take a brush to
the blue-green spot, at the same time as I siphon out the stuff
which scrapes off, would that likely be a sufficient step at this
time (esp. if I turn on the UV)? <Just turn on the skimmer,
proceed with your stocking plans... siphon, disturb the BGA patches
when doing regular maintenance... they will be gone soon enough>
f. I plan to cut off the most of the bottom of the GARF Aragocrete
plugs when I attach the soft corals to the main live rock. You have
expressed some hesitancy about the composition of Aragocrete-type
products. Do I need to worry about any dissolving/leaching into my
system? <Not if they've been in place for months... get coated
over, become largely inert> g. Do you think it too risky for me
to add one red tree sponge? I'm not going the route of sea apples or
cucumbers, though I might put in a lettuce Nudibranch, too. <I
wouldn't add another... now... not easily kept in newer systems>
h. (LAST QUESTION - multi-part - and the original reason I wrote
you) I have not dipped anything so far, nor do I have a
quarantine tank set up, but I am convinced of their value at this
point. It seems from your articles that a real good acclimation step
would accomplish more than just a dip, but not as much as a full
quarantine. To clarify for me, your step C) adds air, but I've read
that this can raise the pH and thus the shipping water's toxicity.
<Mmm, not appreciably... that is, pH is not raised much in this
procedure by aeration... you can easily "do an experiment" to prove
this> I see in step D) that an acid is introduced to compensate
for this. <Actually, the addition of an acid is to match the
ambient/shipping water conditions, hence sustaining/prolonging the
pH of the acclimation water to allow ammonia to exist in a less
toxic state... for a time... to allow this material to "get out" of
the fish/livestock... w/o having it convert to more toxic state
within...> Should I even start the airstone until after I've
adjusted the pH? <Not necessary to wait> Also, in your step
D), reference is made to treated holding water. I believe this is
fresh (no salt) water (RO or tap?) plus the PVP and Meth blue. From
what I can understand, <Yes> the color will be a very dark
royal blue. Because that will be diluted as I add it into the
shipping water, should I start out with an even greater Meth
concentration (or is that only when you are "dipping"). The length
of time they stay in this solution varies with the fish, but how can
you tell if they are in discomfort, especially if you can't see them
through the blue? <Hopefully. No real reason to make the water
"that blue"> Also, other than inverts, corals, cardinals, and
wild angels, are there any other fishes you would simply not put
through this process? <Mmm, a tough call... "depends" on their
apparent health/state... if specimens very beat, would skip any/all
species> Bob. I realize that this has taken you a long time just
to get this far. I apologize for the imposition, but I am sincere in
my desire to act responsibly in this pursuit, and once again,
appreciate your help. <No worries. Take your time. Thank you for
your well-thought out message. Be chatting. Bob Fenner>
Sincerely, Jim RaubRe: Acclimation vs. Dipping, plus some
other questions Hello, Again, Bob! I can't believe you
would be able to respond to me so promptly. Thanks again! <A
pleasure my friend> Re. the "high" alkalinity, I am using a
RedSea test kit, and it does not give me a numerical reading.
Just... low, normal, high. <Bizarre> My color is just over the
normal into the high. If you know of a better test, I'll gladly use
it. <Look into Salifert, Hach, LaMotte> Also, I could reduce
the part 1 of my B-Ionic (the Alkalinity part), and continue only
with the calcium. Downside, though, is that's the only place I'm
currently getting trace minerals ('til I switch to the SeaChem).
<Not to worry here... I would reduce the part one component> I
will stabilize that SG as recommended, and adjust my routine to
include a daily top-off. So... if I determine that the fish store
is not just "selling things right out of the bag", would you think
that a good acclimation/dip process would be sufficient for the
livestock before introducing them to my display tank? (I'm not sure
I can have a working quarantine by this weekend, or that it would be
large enough to house a sizeable number at one time.) <You must
trust your judgment, knowledge here... if the organisms appear
fit...> Thanks again for your help. Jim Raub <Anytime my
friend. Bob Fenner> |
Shipment coming tomorrow... acclimation question Hi Jason,
(or Bob if you're back). Thanks for being there with all the
great assistance! <You are welcome by both of us> Tomorrow I
will receive my first shipment of mail-order livestock, (from
FFExpress) and I think I'm ready. I have read and re-read your page
on acclimation (www.wetwebmedia.com/acclimat.htm), and am all set up
to follow the saltwater fish "guerilla" acclimation technique. I
have just a couple small questions: #1 Using the kitty litter
boxes, is it safe to acclimate several fish in the same container at
the same time (as long as they are not the types to be aggressive
towards each other)? <Yes, quite safe... In wholesale practice we
often separate venomous fishes (e.g. Scorpionfishes, plotosid
catfishes...) and larger, very aggressive fishes (e.g. triggers),
but otherwise, most often mix together as bags are opened/processed>
#2 Though it indicates that inverts, etc "merit a separate
discussion", I couldn't find anything, so maybe you could give me
counsel on the few non-fish I'm getting: a. 3 cleaner shrimp
b. 3 peppermint shrimp c. 1 fire cleaner shrimp d. 1 green
bubble anemone e. 1 Indonesian red Ricordea <I would place all
of the shrimps together for acclimation, and the two cnidarians
together... but do "drain" (I strain with hand movement) the
anemone's shipping water in moving it to the acclimation tray>
Thanks So Much! Jim Raub <Be chatting. Bob Fenner>Re:
Shipment coming tomorrow... acclimation question Hi Guys (and
welcome back, Bob). <Hello and thank you> Sorry to be dense,
here, but I just want to confirm that the same fresh water,
pH-adjusted, PVP, Meth blue, Maracide, Maracyn acclimation solution
I will use on the fish is A OK for the shrimp and cnidarians.
<Mmm, not freshwater... I would use the same other components, but
with seawater of about the same density as the shipping water the
non-fishes are in> Also, confirming that unlike with the fish,
where we keep their water and add in the acclimation solution, I
should try to drain away as much of the shipping water as possible
from the cnidarians, and basically just immerse them into the
acclimation solution. (That hand-straining thing... should I
worry about being stung?) <Yes to the technique and no problem
with the calloused parts of your hands... do try to keep the
stinging-celled animals off your wrist skin... and take care to wash
your hands after handling... can be a real owee on your mucus
membranes...> Really Sincere Thanks and Appreciation for all your
help! Jim Raub <A pleasure my friend. Bob Fenner> |
Central System (going over on acclimation, quarantine procedures)
Hi Bob, I think the selling point that Consistent sea, Inc. had
was that they hand picked nice healthy fish and offered them for
resell to stores that can't drive to the wholesalers (such as
myself). <Yes... "selection services" have been around for as
long as there has been livestock distribution. My friend Walt Smith
ran his for decades out of Phil Shane's Quality Marine...> He
said he started his business by moving to LA to hand pick fish for a
store in NY. He then started offering it to other stores. Any
way, I was just wondering of you knew of this company. I'm kind of
leery of businesses that I can't find much info about. <I am not
familiar with the company, its agents. I would do as you are...
check with others who have used their services> I know that you
are a busy man, but if I could give you the specs of the central and
quarantine systems that I installed this summer, I would greatly
appreciate any suggestions that you may have. <Sure> Central
System 12 - forty gallon long aquariums - drilled - with
different coral substrates in each 2 - 100 gallon sumps plumbed
together Aerofoamer 848 skimmer - pump rated 2000 gph (Works
wonderfully) Water pumped through biomedia at 2400 gph 2 - Mag
2400 return pumps each pumping about 1200 gph - Seems to have about
200 gph through each aquarium 2 - Aqua UV 57 watt sterilizers
(Doesn't seem to have much contact time - short tubes) <And not
many watts for this size system, flow rate... but worthwhile
nonetheless> Am Marine pH Monitor Auto Evaporation and SW
replacement with RO/DI Water <Nice feature> pH - Avg 8.1
Ammonia - 0 Nitrite - 0 Nitrate - 30 - (I think an employee
was overfeeding) Salt 1.023 Fish seem to do OK in the central
system except for an outbreak of ick from a shipment that was
rerouted and got cold. (The quarantine system was dismantled and was
being rebuilt when this shipment came in so they had to go in the
CS.) (Did you know saltwater and metal shelving doesn't mix?)
<Umm, ah, yes> I fought this for 2 months until I got a copper
test kit and raised the copper to the right level. (Coral must have
been absorbing it). <More likely calcareous rock, substrate...
this happens> It doesn't seem like the UV does much in preventing
the spread of ick. <You have to have many watts, long contact
times to get close to 100% kill rate... realistically, UV's will not
prevent, let alone treat parasitic problems> I didn't want to put
copper in the CS, but I felt I had no choice. I was also told that
UV can't be used while medicating with copper. <No. Only certain
types of chelated coppers are affected by UVs> Should I keep
copper in the CS at the recommended level or should I remove it,
turn the UVs back on, and possibly add 200mg/hr of ozone? <Are
you using non-chelated copper? I would keep it up till your
quarantine system, procedures are in place fully> Quarantine
Systems There are two separate identical systems. Each has:
6 - twenty gallon aquariums - drilled - painted bare bottoms 29
gallon sump with biomedia Red Sea Berlin Skimmer Mag 1800
return pump - returning about 600 gph - 100 gph per tank Aqua UV
40 watt sterilizer Am Marine pH Monitor Auto Evaporation and
SW replacement with RO/DI Water pH - Avg 8.1 Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0 Nitrate - 30 Salt - 1.023 Fish come in and stay
in a system for two weeks. Another shipment comes in the next week
into the other system. They continue a two week rotation. <And
you bleach filter media in-between use/cycles> The QSs don't have
copper in them. I noticed in one system today, though, that there is
ick in a couple of tanks. (AAAGGHH!) A customer told me that other
stores with similar systems keep copper in the quarantine systems.
Is this advisable? <Mmm sometimes... routinely... better to have
good suppliers, use pH adjusted freshwater baths enroute to the
quarantine systems... and do w/o the copper...> Should I turn off
the UVs and do this? If so, what about dwarf angels, lions, and
other copper intolerant fish? <I would hold off coppering if you
could... or move the copper sensitive animals to the other parallel
quarantine system... though at this point they are likely infested>
When a shipment comes in, I try to follow your recommendations for
acclimation. I have two 15 gallon acclimation aquariums. I dim
the lights, divide the fish up by aggression, and pour fish and
shipping water into the aquariums. I drain out excess shipping
water, add airstones and start siphoning water from the QS into the
aquariums. I add Methylene blue, Novaqua, KM Ammonia Detox, SW
Maracyn, Seachem ParaGuard. I let this work for an hour or so as the
water slowly mixes. This is one part I am confused on - I don't
adjust the pH of the water coming from the QS into the acclimation
tanks. Which would be better: Allowing the pH to rise from the
shipping level to 8.2 from the acclimating water over an hours time,
or lowering the incoming water to that of the shipping water then
moving them from the lower pH to the higher pH of the QS all at
once? <Slowly is better, in the acclimation procedure... with
airstones, inorganic-acid reduced pH mixing water...> Or is there
a better system? <Trays with system water and reduced pH water
both... airstones... red lighting overhead... all mixed water to
waste... all nets, trays, specimen containers to bleach and rinse
buckets between use> I guess I just want to know if the equipment
seems to be sized right. Then if, when, where, and how to use copper
in these systems. Any other things that I am overlooking? <A
seeming lifetimes worth... but you are on the right tracks, path>
Thank you very much for any info you can give. I just want to have
the best quality for my customers to keep them happy and in the
hobby. <I'm totally with you here. If you have troubles with
suppliers or finding same... do contact me. Bob Fenner> Larry
Aquatic Designs Little Rock, ARRe: Central System
(commercial acclimation, quarantine procedures) Bob, I
have a few questions here regarding your reply. > Fish come in
and stay in a system for two weeks. Another shipment comes in the
next week into the other system. They continue a two week rotation.
> <And you bleach filter media in-between use/cycles> *(Define
filter media - filter floss, carbon, bioballs???) <<Yes... to
eliminate or greatly reduce the likelihood of transferring
infectious, parasitic organisms to the "new batch">> > The QSs
don't have copper in them. I noticed in one system today, though,
that there is ick in a couple of tanks. (AAAGGHH!) A customer told
me that other stores with similar systems keep copper in the
quarantine systems. Is this advisable? > <Mmm sometimes...
routinely... better to have good suppliers, use pH adjusted
freshwater baths enroute to the quarantine systems... and do w/o the
copper...> > Should I turn off the UVs and do this? If so, what
about dwarf angels, lions, and other copper intolerant fish? > <I
would hold off coppering if you could... or move the copper
sensitive animals to the other parallel quarantine system... though
at this point they are likely infested> > When a shipment comes
in, I try to follow your recommendations for acclimation. > I
have two 15 gallon acclimation aquariums. I dim the lights, divide
the fish up by aggression, and pour fish and shipping water into the
aquariums. > I drain out excess shipping water, add airstones and
start siphoning water from the QS into the aquariums. I add
Methylene blue, Novaqua, KM Ammonia Detox, SW Maracyn, Seachem
ParaGuard. I let this work for an hour or so as the water slowly
mixes. This is one part I am confused on - I don't adjust the pH of
the water coming from the QS into the acclimation tanks. > Which
would be better: Allowing the pH to rise from the shipping level to
8.2 from the acclimating water over an hours time, or lowering the
incoming > water to that of the shipping water then moving them
from the lower pH to the higher pH of the QS all at once? >
<Slowly is better, in the acclimation procedure... with airstones,
inorganic-acid reduced pH mixing water...> > Or is there a better
system? > <Trays with system water and reduced pH water both...
airstones... red lighting overhead... all mixed water to waste...
all nets, trays, specimen containers to bleach and rinse buckets
between use> *(Let me see if I have this right. Reduce the water
that is to be used for acclimation down to the pH of the shipping
water which is around 7.3 or so. After the water has been slowly
added to the shipping water the pH should still be around 7.3, but
the QS pH is still 8.2. This is where I get confused. Should you:
1. Remove the fish from the 7.3 mixture, freshwater dip them, then
put them straight into the 8.2 QS? 2. Slowly raise the pH of the
7.3 mixture to 8.2, freshwater dip them, then add to the QS? 3.
Lower the entire QS to 7.3 and slowly raise it back up to 8.2 over
hours/days? <<For most species, specimens, situations more a
combination of #s 2 and 3. Lower the pH of the acclimation water,
raise back in minutes to an hour (rarely a couple or three hours),
then a pH adjusted freshwater bath...>> I really appreciate your
advice on these systems. Do you know of any stores that are doing
everything right that I might could fly in and visit in a days time?
Someone that would be willing to spend some time and show me how
they receive fish and operate their systems? <<There are a few
shops that "do this" religiously... have designated facilities, go
the stolid path of quarantining, acclimating all incoming
livestock... I would post to our chatforum:
http://talk.wetwebfotos.com/ ask who is known in your
geographical area... Otherwise, if you come this way, can direct you
to Los Angeles or Phoenix...> Also, do you know of any friendly
discussion boards for aquarium store owners? <<Unfortunately
no... a diffuse industry, that attracts "independent" types... who
in general have no time, people skills, attitude for such sharing. A
great shame>> Thank you again for your time and advice. <<A
pleasure, honor and gladly accepted duty my friend. Bob Fenner>>
Larry Aquatic Designs Little Rock, AR |
Questions on acclimating fish for retail sales.. Hi Bob, My
name is Leland Foley and I am starting a Marine Fish/Reef Retail store.
<Outstanding... I will gladly shake the hand of anyone who would (try
to) be self-employed. Welcome to our industry> I have worked in many
other retail stores, including a couple of years for Inland Aquatics.
<Ahh, Morgan Lidster and I are known to each other> Anyway, I have
been around long enough to learn a great deal about fish acclimation,
and I really like the way you suggest to acclimate marine fish, but I
have a few questions. <Please> 1.) How do you incorporate dips
into your Guerilla Acclimation Techniques? I believe, as I'm sure you
do as well, that the PVP based dechlorinator, in combination with the
Methylene blue really helps the fish to survive the stresses of
shipping, <Yes> but after this acclimation procedure, would it be
too stressful to put them into a formalin dip before putting them into
the main system tanks? <Good question... as it has the usual (lame)
"it depends"... by and large if most all marine fish livestock is in
"good enough" shape from this point in an/the acclimation protocol, it's
"probably okay" (more beneficial than potentially detrimental) to
proceed with another dipping/bath sequence...> I'm a strong believer
in formalin dips and freshwater dips. They are primarily what I use when
I receive a shipment of fish, because I'm sure as you know Clownfishes,
and others will die of Brooklynella or crypto quite quickly if not
treated immediately upon arrival. <Agreed, especially with Clowns>
My acclimation procedure consists of floating the bags to equalize the
temps, and then in small batches putting the fish into a saltwater and
Formalin dip, or a straight freshwater dip with bicarbonate. I've found
that a great deal of fish will die in a freshwater dip, but do just fine
in a saltwater with formalin dip. <As always... intelligence and
experience go into deciding/judging dip types, duration...> Then the
fish are removed from the dip and placed into a quarantine system (500
gal.) that is run by oversized wet/dries, mild protein skimming, and
very strong U.V. sterilization. The fish are given high quality fresh
seafood (shrimp, squid, marine fish, etc..) treated with garlic and
Metronidazole for the first week then flake foods and various frozen
foods are introduced. <Wow, quite an expensive undertaking... but
worth it> I only use the garlic as a flavor enhancer, it might help
remove worms, but this is not the primary reason I use it. <I
understand> If a fish pops up with a bacterial infection we dip it
again and carefully keep it overfed. If ich pops up on 3 or more fish we
add copper to the system. Which brings me to my last question, 2.)
What form of copper chelated or non-chelated can be used with UV
sterilizers on? Or better yet what brand do you recommend? <In a
large operation, volume or livestock flow-wise, non-chelated like the
Kordon or Aquarium Systems product... Wouldn't, don't use chelated
varieties on sleeved or non-sleeved UVs> Sorry for the long post, but
as you know this is what makes or breaks ones profits in this industry,
<I do know this... agree. Please make it known if I may be of
assistance. Bob Fenner> Thanks, -Leland Foley Got the
jacket..., acclimating Declivis B/F, being Jason.C And some other
things... looks like I'm in the digital camera age now. Picked up a
used Nikon Coolpix 950 which seems to take some pretty good shots. I
quickly snapped one of the new Declivis this evening but was in a rush
so didn't grab the tripod, etc. etc. Will take a better photo in the AM.
Lorenzo said the photo I shot made him dizzy so I'm not sending it
around - I warned him, oh well. <You'll, it will get better with
practice> Anyway, I apologize for not being a little more since my
arrival back in the EST. <A little more what?> The time change
threw me a bit and it's taken me a while to catch up not only
physically, but also around the house and the tanks and etc... oh, and
of course had to hook up that calcium reactor and start taking notes and
the whole bit. So... my apologies, I'm trying even as we speak to do
with just a little less sleep - seems to be the only place to shave time
in the day. <No worries> I'll have to check my notes, I think it
will be Thursday the reactor will have been running a week, so I should
have some local/personal data from which to gather up an
article/faq/methodology for Di's sites. I'm a little behind but have
stolen enough time to get together all the Legos I need to do a facelift
on the Knop site. I'm still working on the Miva stuff as the back-end
interface is proving to be a bit like a 500lb gorilla who doesn't take
to being tamed with a horse-whip. Anyway, enough lame excuses, I'm on
it... should continue have stuff to show in little dribs and drabs.
<Ah, she will be excited to hear> I would love to help Custom
Aquatic, as like Zo, I'm in a position to help - knowledge, experience,
etc. But, I also love to tell my employees, "I'd rather have you tell me
you can't get a thing done, than tell me you can do it, and then not get
it done." So... I really have to take my own advice and not sign up for
anything else, as much as I'd like to help, it's just be another helping
on an already full plate. I'd be lying if I said I could get it done
within a week or two. <I understand> So... thanks for shipping
back the jacket so quickly - didn't need to come FedEx for certain, but
I can't say I'm not grateful: it's easily between 10 and 20 outside, and
there's a stiff wind about, which is really drilling it home. On the
other hand, the sky is clear black - can see the Milky Way - beautiful
night, if you can keep warm. Thanks for sending back the jacket.
<You're welcome> Now, the fish - always the fish. Would you have a
Guerilla Acclimation Technique card on the Declivis Butterfly for a good
dip time? <Generally a hardy, ready to go aquarium species... little
acclimation necessary> I would have to say, based on this one, I just
got a bad one last time, and it was already having issues when I got it.
This one is thick, very active, eager eater/picker/investigator - also a
little larger all around than the last one - not starved thin. Not even
remotely the same fish as the previous Declivis. So... same as last time
I'm thinking (?), quick quarantine, pH-adjusted freshwater dip and in
he/she goes... yea/nay? <Yes> Cheers to you, hello to Di, and "a
quick shout out" those three silly dogs. J -- <Will relate all.
Any further ideas on shared border sets for FP? Bob F>
Questions on Acclimating Fish Bob, Thanks for your help in the
past. A few additional questions in regard to acclimating SW fish (mail
order) : What is the best mechanism for measuring ph in both fresh
(dips) and salt water? I've used titration kits and have found them to
be difficult to read (the difference in shades between 7.6 - 8.4 is
minor - difficult to distinguish with the human eye - mine anyway). I've
used pinpoint PH monitors (work well, but seem to require a lot of
calibration when switching from salt to fresh water) and ph pens
(similar to monitors, except less stable). Are colorimeters an effective
mechanism? <Yes... even simple colorimetric assays are fine,
precise/accurate enough... or even simply relying on a material/mix that
won't dangerously over-elevate pH (try sodium bicarbonate/baking
soda)...> I'm looking for something that costs less than $700 but
will give me quick/dependable/accurate (within .1 PH) readings in both
fresh (dips) and salt water with little/no calibration - what do the
'pros' use? <Oh! 0.1 will require some fancier gear... either
electronic as in a probe or spectrophotometer/colorimeter... or too much
titrametric work to interest me> In your web page on acclimation
(http://www.wetwebmedia.com/acclimat.htm) for SW fish, you indicate in
step D that holding water should be PH adjusted to approximately the PH
of the shipping water - and then this water should be slowly added to
the 'shipping water + fish'. In step 'F' you indicate that the fish
should now be transferred to the 'quarantine tank'. Shouldn't there be a
step between D and F that involves slowly moving the fish from the
shipping PH to the holding tank PH? <Actually... generally not... the
time, trauma isn't "worth it"... in most cases for hobbyists...
Wholesalers however, dealing with animals that have been in shipment for
many hours, in very little water... are very encouraged to drop the pH
of "mixing water" (generally with inorganic acids, typically HCl) to
match arriving water pH, and slowly (half hour to several hours
depending on condition, species) elevate pH back to holding water pH...
generally done by aeration and the addition (drip) of system like
water... with all mixed/acclimation water going to waste ultimately...>
How rapid of a PH change can be made and still be 'tolerated' by most
fish (i.e.. can the PH be changed by 0.1 every x minutes)? <Very good
question... Mmm, am given to pausing, trying to devise in my mind and
then paper... at least the major factors, co-factors (some linear, most
logarithmic, like the LD50 for pH and unionized ammonia concentration
for instance) that come into play here... Let's keep chatting this over
if you'd like... suffice it to state that most (I really don't enjoy
generalizations) organisms, in fair to good shape (visit New Jersey, the
Garden State), under S.O.P. acclimation conditions (you can lead a horse
to water, but I'd rather have a beer), can/will tolerate (not croak)
given a pH difference of, um, hmmm, 0.5 (Yikes! Yes...) point between
their shipping water and that of the receiving system> To eliminate
ammonia toxicity that occurs when the shipping bag is opened, can I just
give each bag a squirt of PVP based ammonia neutralizer immediately
after it is opened? <What will/would it take to have you join our
industry? Yes, this is a very good idea... one that I've employed with
good success (using mainly Kordon's JFKuhns products... e.g. Amquel)...
you've got to be careful though, to do this in a situation where there
is more water and mechanical aeration... due to a loss of capacity for
the organisms to respire, lowered dissolved oxygen...> If so, how
much (and how easy is it to poison livestock with PVP based Amm-neuts?).
<Mmm, great questions... a "squirt" is okay in a cup or more water... by
diluting (I like plastic kitty litter pans... but have used Styrofoam
fish boxes... other more novel containers) to a couple of gallons... the
neutralizer still works... and the toxic and delimiting effects are
greatly lessened> Curiosity: Wouldn't acclimation be simpler - and
more successful - if shippers shipped fish with PVP based ammonia
neutralizers in the shipping water - and maybe even some Alk buffer?
<These have been tried... and much other technology/experiments (a fave
was a recirculating system of water and anesthetic spritzed over
goldfish shipped in "peanuts" of styro!)... the PVP doesn't really
"last" in transit solution... but buffers are a very good idea> (i.e.
eliminating the ammonia toxicity that occurs as the bag is opened,
oxygen rushes in, and PH rises). If so, why isn't this done by most
shippers? <Mmm, most folks do something in the way of using "fresh"
natural or synthetic water that is pretty much optimized for initial
bagging, shipping... There is a great deal to be gained by allowing pH
to drift down with time though... ionized ammonia at lowered pH's is
extremely less toxic than most any (okay, you deserve a number... let's
say 0.1 ppm) free ammonia in transit solution... and lowered pH has a
narcotizing effect on many/most shipped organisms... as it does with
humans (sorry for the nth derivation from the topic)... making them slow
down behaviorally and metabolically... Thanks for writing. Bob Fenner>
Thanks! Saltwater acclimating steps....HELP Hi Bob,
<<Hello, it's actually JasonC but I'll see what I can do to answer your
questions.>> I've written you guys once before but never saw anything
from it, so I'm gonna try again. <<Sorry about that... let's go.>> My
questions concern Acclimating. I've read all the FAQ's and the main site
on Acclimating both Guerilla, and the regular around 6 times, trying to
see if I read it wrong. My Questions are thus. Part A, B, C seem simple
enough, put the fishies in a pan with an air stone. Right? <<Sure.>>
Here is the more confusing part (at least to me). The holding water is
trickled in or poured in small increments over a period of minutes. My
question is HOW much water should be used as Holding water. I would say
that there is only around 1.5 to maybe 2 cups of water in the bag
that the fish are in that I get from our Wholesaler. <<Ah ha... the
'holding system water' is water from the quarantine system. The fish
should already be in the bin, it it's shipping water. All attempts
should be made to match the holding water to the shipping water; temp,
pH, SPG, etc. As an example, if pH of shipping water is 8.2 - you might
not need to alter the pH of the holding water. Always test first.>>
(these are personal fish not store fish, my bosses don't believe in
acclimating/dipping anymore than just temperature equilibrating). Do I
add one cup of this fresh water mix to the salty bag water, do I add 2
or 3, etc. <<You want to at least match if not double the volume of
shipping water. The more the better, but best to keep track of the
amount for accurate dosing of various additives.>> The next question
after all the holding water is in the litter pans and my fishies are
swimming in this blue water, where do I add the Maracide and SW Maracyn.
Is this to be added in with the fresh water with all the other stuff
(Meth, acid, etc), or is there another step here I'm missing. <<All the
same water. You might remove a cup or so to add and mix the treatment
in, and then add that back to the holding water in the pan.>> Now
after the litter pan, what do I do, it talks about transferring and
leaving for 15-50 min.s, is that the time they are to remain in the blue
water or is this separate water. <<the blue water>> If it is separate
water how should I get them over from the blue water into this new
water. If it isn't new water but the blue water with now all this stuff
in it (Meth, etc), what should the Specific Gravity be. <<Matched to the
shipping water.>> AHHHHHH so many questions, such a small brain (not the
coral version either). And if they are to stay in this low SG blue
water for the 15-50 min.s how do I go about putting them into the
quarantine tank (I've started up a small tank, its only 3 gallons, I
know not much but I'm a poor college student.) <<change the SPG in the
quarantine tank to match the holding/shipping water. You can then bring
the SPG back up over time in the quarantine.>>, or do you do a dip of
saltwater/Formalin here or just Freshwater (which one is less stressful
and most useful in eradicating parasites?), <<nothing wrong with a
freshwater dip. Might just match pH and temp here and forgo the Formalin
unless you are sure there is a problem.>> and then just place in the
quarantine tank. <<yes>> My big concern here going from the low Salinity
Blue Water to the Higher Salinity Quarantine or Dip is that the fishes
Cell membranes will be perforated due to the Osmotic Pressure
differential. <<good to be concerned or perhaps vigilant, but read
previous comment - no worries.>> So any help you could give me would be
most helpful. I want my fishies to live as long as possible and not be
harmed by my attempted effort at helping them. <<I know what you are
saying.>> I hope this letter makes some sense and would really
appreciate any help that you could give me. Sincerely, John
Bernhard <<Cheers, J -- >>
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