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FAQs on Acclimation Troubleshooting/Fixing
Related Articles: Acclimation, Acclimating
Invertebrates, Acclimating
Symbiotic Reef Invertebrates to Captive Lighting, Methylene
Blue,
Related FAQs: Acclimation 1,
Acclimation 2,
Acclimation 3, & FAQs on Acclimation:
Rationale/Use, Tools/Gear,
Chemicals, Methods,
Controversies, & Acclimating
Invertebrates, Acclimation
of Livestock in the Business, Dips/Baths 1, Best
Quarantine FAQs, Quarantine, |
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Gill Burn
Hi, to the WWM crew!! I am anxiously awaiting your new book,
recently
received an e-mail that it may be another month or two (I'm sure it will be
worth the wait)!
<I hope so>
I recently received a Golden Puffer, as with all of my new fish I ALWAYS test
the shipping water as a precautionary. The Golden Puffer had
extremely low
PH, which was expected, however the ammonia was off the scales, pretty much
as high as it could go.
<Not atypical>
I acclimated the fish rather quickly, to get him out
of the ammonia.
<Umm, not a good idea... Please read through the marine acclimation pieces
stored here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/acclimat.htm
necessary to adjust pH slowly (possibly over hours) while the ammonia and its
analogs are present in the water AND in the fish... to keep pH suppressed till
no detectable ammonia in either>
However since then he has had trouble with his gills,
occasionally he will close one gill, and just breathe out of the other
gill.
I have also noticed some occasional scratching, and it appears that he is
trying to scratch the gill area. I believe he has some damage to the
gills
from the exposure to the high ammonia.
<Maybe>
The puffer is currently in a 55 gallon QT with extra stress coat (don't know
if this is going to help). He appears to have good color, his eyes
are
clear, I do not see any signs of parasite (aside from the
scratching). He
has not eaten as of yet.
<The single gill movement may be nothing (this happens) and the fish may well
not feed for days>
Is there anything I can do to help reverse the burning damage done to the
gills? Is it at all reversible?
<Time, good conditions... very likely this specimen will self-cure>
Can you please explain what happens when
the "gills are burned" and how do I help him?
<The epithelium is chemically challenged, generally by high or low pH...
possibly by concentration of noxious chemicals otherwise. In the worst cases
there is hemolysis (splitting of blood cells) leading to dire physiological
stress>
He has a beautiful 240 gallon
tank waiting for him.
Thank you for your time and your knowledge, it is greatly
appreciated. Jen
Marshall
<Patience here my friend. Bob Fenner>
Treating new fish 6/18/03
Hello Anthony,
<cheers, mate>
I thought about Formalin, but was worried about its effects on the filter (which
is biological)?
<valid... but not so severe as many other meds (like copper, Methylene blue,
erythromycin, etc)>
I will consider a formalin dip, the MelaFix was added
because i had some and i thought it would be fine with the shark.
<agreed... I do believe it is safe for the shark... and safe for the
parasites too <G>>
how lo would you say to lower the salinity by (if the shark was removed)?
<1.018>
I am completely struck on transshipped marines and i am due a list from Hawaii.
Can you suggest any thing from there that is really good or worth having?
<many fine wrasses, a few dwarf angels... beautiful triggers and Tobies
(dwarf puffers)...>
in my mind i am thinking flame angels, potters angel, Lemonpeel angels, yellow
Sailfin tangs, chevron tangs - common but sought after!
<the tangs yes... very much. Great fishes and hardy. The Potters... no way.
They are so delicate that many don't even make it to the US mainland. Not a
strong fish under any circumstance... lets leave those beauties in the sea.
Lemonpeels and Flames can be quite hardy once established though. Very fine.>
Regards, Sam
<best regards, Anthony>
What We Have Here Is a Failure to Acclimate!
Hi I like your web site and I have a question for ya. I have had coral trouble lately. I couldn't figure it out at first
I checked anything from copper to nitrates and everything was fine , and then I found out that the store's tank has a ph of about 8.6 and
mine was about 8.2 to 8.3.I had already bought some brain coral and it started to die . So I stared to put some ph adjuster in and
it stop dying but never came out it started to grow back a little bit but it was to late about two weeks ago it died .About two weeks later I bought a
fairly good size pineapple brain coral and about a week later it starting to die
around the corners I don't know what could be the matter . I have a little white crab that has
bristle hairs (it came in with some live rock it sort of looks like a anemone crab
but it doesn't hang around the two pink Florida anemones that I have. (I have never seen
the crab on the coral day or night. I also have seen a long about 2 1/2-3 inch whit worm . I have never seen it out of the sand I also think I have
bristle worm that I have never seen out of the sand. If it were two my prowling glass goby would find it as a meal as it does everything else . I was
wondering if you would know if it could be a something in the tank or the ph . I don't think it's the lighting because I have a 50/50 reef and sun,
and the star polyp coral and the anemones like the light.
<I'm guessing that you didn't acclimate your corals properly. To narrow down some
possibilities, water quality wouldn't be much of an issue in the short run. Lighting wouldn't be an issue, either, in the short run. I also doubt that the critters which you
described would cause this. I'm left with either A) You have some type of toxin/chemical in your water which is killing the corals B) Something in your tank is picking at it C) You haven't
acclimated the corals properly. My guess is that you haven't acclimated the corals properly or there is a chemical in your water which is causing this.
Acclimation for such corals should take about an hour or two hours using the drip method (provided you use 1 drop per second, according to the amount of water volume in the bag the coral came in).
Failure to acclimate could cause this.
Some questions I need to properly answer your original question include:
1. How old is the tank
2. How long did you acclimate the corals for?
3. What were the water levels you tested for?
4. What filtration do you have?
5. What fish do you have?
6. Anything else?
Take Care,
Graham >
Rapid Fish Deaths
So here goes. I browsed previously asked questions but didn't find anything close. I
have a relatively new 90 gal saltwater tank (saltwater in it for 6 weeks
now) that has completed cycling in the last three weeks. I have 150lbs of live
rock, a 4-5" sandbed, turbo classic skimmer, U.V. sterilizer (just switched
on), pc fluorescent and metal halide and water changing about a gallon a day.
Parameters during the period of my tale: Nitrite 0, Ammonia 0, Nitrate 15 ppm,
Calcium 550 ppm, Magnesium 1000 ppm, Alkalinity 15dKh, pH 7.9, ORP 315, Salinity
1.023.
One and a half weeks after cycling completed I attempted to introduce a few
Damsels (yellow tails). Acclimation was to drip tank water for 60 minutes,
remove 50% of contents, fast drip for 30 minutes and........then the fish
died.
<Hmm...>
I tried again. This time I added an airstone to the fish bag, floated the bag in
water that was kept between the temperature of the arriving fish water and the
tank (only a 3 degree spread between these two), measured fish bag pH at 8.0 and
tank at 7.9 and arriving salinity of 1.019 vs. tank of 1.023. Acclimation was to
drip tank water for 1 hour, remove 50 % of contents ,slow drip for 30 minutes
(even slower than first time), remove 50% of contents and fast drip for 30
minutes.............but the fish died.
<Wow- something ain't right here...>
Taking some advice that the acclimation process may have been too slow with the
possibility that the fish underwent oxygen starvation in the bag, I tried again
with a modified acclimation procedure - floated the bag in the tank for 15 min.s,
added a cup of tank water after 10 min.s and so on for 4 cups, dipped the fish,
and then into the tank.
Success - the fish was quite inquisitive for about 10 minutes and then found its
way up the intake tub of a powerhead and in the 5 minutes following the
powerhead encounter..................the fish died.
<Yikes...lousy luck!>
I tried again. Same acclimation as immediately above, the fish was inquisitive
for about 10 minutes and just slowly gave into the currents in the following 5
minutes and..............the fish died.
<Okay...not good here...>
I'd really appreciate some suggestions because at this point its no longer fish
slaughter but first degree fish murder if I try again. Thanks
<Okay, I have a few observations/thoughts here. My first recommendation is to
quarantine all new arrivals in a separate tank before placing them into the
display...I know that you are having troubles just acclimating the fish, but
this is a good practice to start with. My other thought is that you may be
getting some fishes from a source that has questionable quality, or that you may
not be selecting healthy fishes to begin with. Do consider obtaining your fishes
from another source, and really read up on the FAQs here on WWM concerning the
selection of healthy specimens (and how to evaluate them). The other thought
that I have is to think about the possibility of a toxin of some sort in your
water. Your acclimation techniques sound fine, but something doesn't jibe
here...Assuming that all of your basic water quality parameters are correct, and
at proper levels, as you report, then something else may be going on. Have you
used any type of household cleaning solutions near the tank? Any paints,
solvents, insecticides, etc., which somehow could have gotten into the tank? Any
"additives" that you have been using? Are all tank items and
decorations non-toxic? Have you obtained rocks or decorative corals from unknown
sources, which may have contained a toxic substance of some sort? Think of all
of the possibilities here...From the basics to the exotic. In the absence of
measurable water chemistry problems, you need to look at all sorts of
possibilities. I'd recommend continuous use of activated carbon and Poly Filter,
not to mention some water changes...Aggressive protein skimming is helpful, too.
Just keep looking beyond the obvious, and think about some of the things that
we've discussed here. Don't be discouraged- you can and will be successful
here...Good luck! Regards, Scott F>(
Rapid Fish Deaths (Follow Up)
I have tried two fish sources. I have been quite meticulous in the care and
handling of water and materials. Although I should be quarantining, these are
the first tank inhabitants so have not done so.
<I understand your thoughts, but you could still introduce potential diseases
that can lay in wait for further additions to the tank. Quarantine is a really
good idea right from the start>
I have had indirect contact with the London Aquarium who are similarly baffled.
There has been a suggestion that the DSB has ripped sufficient oxygen out of the
water as it turns anaerobic to cause depletion.
<An interesting theory-I'm not sure of the plausibility; but worth running an
oxygen test to see if this is the cause...>
I have done a 100% water change and will try again. Thanks
<Get up again and keep at it...Your determination and perseverance are
inspiring to others who run into obstacles along the way in this hobby! Thanks
for sharing, and feel free to contact us again if we can help! Good luck!
Regards, Scott F>
Re: new specimen acclimation questions 1/8/03
thanks for you quick response. let me clarify (it was late, and I
was in a bit of a rush to get the e-mail out)...
<Hi Rob. Adam here this time. Hopefully we will clear
everything up! For clarity, I will place ** ** around the
rest of my replies.>
>1) Last Rabbitfish I got was from an ich infected tank (yeah, I know, bad
move). I Methylene blue dipped it. <I'm assuming you meant with pH-adjusted
freshwater with Methylene blue in it??? Flesh dripping off sounds like something
was very wrong with the dip.> Looked like the flesh was coming off it when it
died (could see the "teeth" under a flapping upper lip). Did I dip it
too long? <Well... you haven't given many details about the dip,
>but it does sound like it was flawed somehow.> It was maybe 3 inches. Dipped
it for 12 minutes. <That does seem a bit long - probably doesn't need to be
any longer than five minutes.> It never tried to torpedo out of the dip.
<Might well have been doomed before the dip.>
yes, that's exactly what I meant, a fresh-water ph adjusted freshwater dip (using
ph 8.3 from SeaChem). I had previously used 5 gallons of water (easier
to do the division for figuring how much to add). problem is I always
had trouble finding the fish :) I would leave it in the net just below
the surface so I could find it.
**I am a bit concerned about the fact that you can't find the fish in the dip. I
have never used Methylene blue, but would be surprised if the concentration
should be so high as to limit visibility through the solution.**
I've switched down to 2 gallons (which will hopefully make it easier to find
when I release it from the net. thanks for the 5 minute advice. I
had always thought longer is better, so long as they could take it...
**To a certain extent, yes, but the use of medication is always striking a
balance between enough to harm the pathogen, but not so much as to harm the
"patient". It sounds like in this case, the
"patient" didn't do so well. This could be because of
overmedication (overdose or just too long), or it could be because it was doomed
to begin with**
>2) I ordered another one, along with a Scott's fairy wrasse. Should
I bother dipping them? Haven't had much luck. <I dip all my fish,
even the expensive ones - you should too. Check your protocol, perhaps you've
been doing something wrong. More details here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dips_baths.htm
>
>3) Will they get along together in a 15 gal QT tank? <The wrasse and the tang?
Yes, I think so... fairy wrasses are fairly easy going, as are Rabbitfish.>
>4) Is it advisable to put 2 fish in the same QT? <Wait... didn't you just
ask that question? Honestly, I wouldn't - will affect your ability to control
water quality - would be better to put them in individual quarantine.>
actually, I asked 2 separate questions: would they get along, and
should you put 2 fish in the same QT. I've never read
anything which said you couldn't, so I was just asking. the
literature is pretty vague (lots of cases when using QT for treatment, not for
prophylactic measures, where it mentions putting the sick fish or multiple sick
fish in the same tank).
**In situations where you have several of the same fish that have been through
the same chain of custody (a school of green Chromis, for example), I would say
that it is OK to quarantine together. In most cases, though, putting
two fish that have come through different chains of custody into the same
quarantine defeats the purpose as one could contract disease from the other.**
>5) I have a UV sterilizer I used with the display tank. I've been
told that it might be a good idea to hook it up to the QT. <Might
be a better place for it.> Isn't that just delaying the inevitable if the
fish are sick? <I don't follow... isn't quarantine the place you'd want to
treat such problems?> Or is this a good practice? <Is where I run my
UV.>
**Strong agreement here. Your UV will be much more effective on a
smaller tank, and is best placed where you expect to treat or want to stop
potential incoming disease. UV on a stocked reef tank has little
utility in disease management because of the large amount of substrate that can
harbor disease organisms.>
I view the QT for introduction of new species as more Darwinian in intent. maybe
that's just because in my experience the fish either die within a couple of
days, or make it through (well, only one has, just to die later through probable
electrocution).
<This is a very skewed view IMO. Quarantining will prevent the
introduction of disease into your system. The value of this will
become apparent when a fish develops signs of disease in quarantine while your
whole display tank full of fish remains unexposed. It will become
even more apparent when you wipe out a tank full of fish after skipping
quarantine for a fish that looked healthy. Even if a newly introduced
fish dies without introducing disease, you will have imported a lot of nutrients
that could have been avoided by quarantining.>
probably not the best way to look at it, but I seem to lose 90% of my
fish in QT. which is why I'm starting to wonder if quarantining is
worth it, especially with a fallow display
tank....
<This leads me to believe that you are either buying highly stressed, doomed
fish or that there is a problem in the management of your Q tank. Do
remember that a Q tank has all of the same requirements for filtration and water
quality that the display does, although the strategies will be different since
the Q tank only runs for short periods of time. As far as your fallow
display... You will appreciate the diversity that is allowed to
develop and the patience it took when you have a well stocked healthy
system.>
thanks again,-- rob
<Good luck! Adam>
QT and acclimation
Hello! <Hi,>
At my LFS, there was a royal Gramma in QT for the past few weeks. Today,
they were going to put it in a display tank, but I bought it instead and took it
home. I don't have room for a QT tank, so I usually shop around for
fish that are being quarantined elsewhere. Is this a bad practice?
<Yes, it doesn't mean that the fish is healthy.> Does it matter *where*
the fish are quarantined as long as they are? <It does matter because the
shipping could make susceptible to getting sick again.>
At any rate, I brought the fish home, and started slowly replacing its water in
its bag to acclimate it. I was planning on replacing a cup of its
"bag" water with a cup of my tank water every five minutes until most
of its water would be water from my tank. Well, as I was pouring the
water and Gramma from the bag into a small 2-gal container I would use to
acclimate it, just before being poured into the container, the Gramma jumped!
<Opps!> It sprang clear of my container. In my panic to catch
the "flying fish", I knocked over the container (my wife is going to
kill me when she sees our drenched carpet). I had to pick the Gramma
off the carpet and just let it go into my main tank. The poor Gramma
swam to the nearest and smallest cave it could find, and has not come out since,
not even for feeding (I tried feeding "enriched" brine shrimp,
bloodworms). I can tell it's still alive, though, as it moves
slightly when one of my clowns comes near the cave.
My Gramma has NOT had a good day. It's "acclimation"
consisted of dry carpet. I know I should be worried, since there's
obviously a reason you tell everyone to acclimate their fish... but my question
is: HOW worried? Will the Gramma get better? Will it ever
come out of its cave? Will one of my two clowns prevent it from doing
so? The clowns
and Gramma are all I have in the tank besides a cleaner crew. <I
would be concerned about the fish but not overly worried. I have done
this before and had fish survive. Grammas in particular are fish that
like to jump out of tanks when scared. If your clowns are picking on
him then his chances are slim. But, if not you should be O.K. Give
the fish a couple of days and then try feeding live brine. This is
just to get it to start eating again.>
Last question: Your site says that brine shrimp is not very nutritional food. My
LFS said it was, because they were selling brine shrimp "enriched with
HUFAs. I have no idea what that stands for, except it's something
about fatty acids. I requested Mysis shrimp. They said my
clowns and Gramma would not be able to handle it since they were too
small. I didn't want to sound like an uninformed idiot, so I trusted
what my LFS had to say. So far, I'm feeding the fish bloodworms and
"enriched" brine shrimp, in addition to the little white critters that
came as hitchhikers on my LR that they regularly feast on. <Discontinue
with the bloodworms. They are freshwater worms and do not provide the
proper balance of nutrients and vitamins for your fish. As far as the
enriched brine goes, it is O.K. for supplemental food but not a main staple
diet.>
I did search FAQs (I spent the past three hours searching your site) and I can't
find any other examples where fish were dropped on the carpet prior to
acclimation... <The best thing to do is to quarantine (I know you don't have
one) and treat it with stress coat. The time spent on the floor
probably removed its protective coating and exposed its scales to infection. If
your tank is not a reef tank you can do that. If you decide that this
is the way to go then watch your protein skimmer for it will overflow. Good
luck! MikeB>
Thanks in advance for your responses.
Paul
Acclimation, Angel 9/12/05
Hi <Hello> I am new to WWM but have been passively reading many many of
your articles to become better educated in the marine area. <Good idea> I
recently purchased a
juvenile emperor angel and placed him in a quarantine tank for observation
before placing him in with my main tank. I gave him a 2 minute fresh water
(straight RO water at 78 F) bath and then placed him in the quarantine
tank. This
is a 10 gal. tank with a 45 degree 4" PVC elbow in it for refuge. It is again
RO water at 78 F medicated with copper,<copper should only be used when
necessary. It's adding undue stress to the fish.> and aerated with a small
stone and
filtered through carbon. The first night and next morning he (she?) looked
fabulous. The fish ate a small amount of Formulae 2 and one Mysis shrimp that
I
offered. The fish swam around curiously and seemed just fine.
The next morning I found him at the bottom not swimming around anymore. I
decided to check the salt content (don't get too mad here) and discovered I
had messed up mixing when I set of the tank (doh!). It was at 1.032 SG! I
slowly (over 4 hours) diluted it back down to 1.023 without replacing the
copper.<Four hours is too short a time to drop the SG that much.> He must have
found the second serving of Formula 2 as it was gone from the
tank floor by the end of the day. It has been 2 days since and the fish is
still on the bottom but now his nose is downward and he seems to be breathing
more rapidly. I am concerned I somehow injured him and fear I will lose him.
Any thoughts? <Filter the QT with a good grade carbon or Chemi-Pure to remove
the copper. I'd do at least a 30% water change with water of the SAME salinity
and 24 hours later see if there is any improvement. If he is eating, you may
want to add vitamins to his food, something such as Selcon. James (Salty Dog)>
Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.
Contrite fish-keeper,
Mark
Re: New Emperor Angel acclimating trouble - need help 9/13/05
Thank you so much for the super-quick reply! <You're welcome> I followed
your instructions
and so far he is still alive a day later. He is still on his side most of the
time but will move around from time to time and his color still looks great.
I guess all I need to do now is wait to see if he recovers.
Just a follow up question to my terrible start. Do you think either the
copper dosing and/or the total screw up of the salt could have damaged
this fish
in a way that would not kill him but leave him this way long term? <The angel
more than likely went into shock from too many changes at once. Do not use
lighting on his tank. It will make him feel a little more relaxed.> I know
I will find out eventually but I feel so bad to see him this way knowing that
I took a healthy fish and caused this situation. <It's a good idea to research a
fish before you buy and know it's requirements. James (Salty Dog)>
Mark |
Acclimation 10/17/05
Hello, My fish store keeps their specific gravity at 10.14, my aquarium is 10.24. I usually drip the tank water into a bucket for three to four hours
using iv tubing for acclimation. I've recently lost a few fish within 24 hours for no obvious reason. Should I be acclimating over a number of days rather
than hours?
These fish were in the store for over a week, were eating and breathing normally. After a few hours in the tank they began to swim at the
surface and breath rapidly. I would appreciate your help.
<I believe your dealer is keeping his salinity at the low level in a attempt to keep parasitic disease down.
<<And to save money on salt mix! MH>> Twenty four hours is a little short on time with that much difference in salinity. I'm sure the ph levels are different between the dealer tank and yours also.
You've got a double edge sword here as 24 hours is too short and a 3 day acclimation (which would be needed) puts undue stress on the fish. I'd look for a different dealer whose salinity is closer to yours. If he is the only one, then you have no choice but to acclimate for a longer time. Another suggestion is to set up a quarantine tank at the same salinity level as the dealers, place the fish in there and gradually increase the salinity on a daily basis. James (Salty Dog)>
Thank you, Rich
Acclimation Situation (Problem Acclimating New Fishes) - 03/07/2006
Hey crew,
<Hi there! Scott F. here tonight!>
I have a problem acclimating new fish, I have several fish already
living in my tank that I acclimated by floating the bag at the top of the tank
and then letting the fish go into a holding tank (same water as the main tank),
but after a day or two the fish is dead. The store I purchased the fish at
quarantines these fish for a two week period, and dips them. The first group of
fish did just fine, but now it seems that I can't add any new fish. Could you
please give me suggestions on what I need to do to get new fish to thrive in my
tank.
Water parameters:
Nitrate near zero
Phosphate (I have trouble reading the test kit but) I think it is around
.2 mg/l
Ph is 8.1-8.4
Alkalinity is 8.0 dKH
Ca is between 410-450
Tank parameters:
180 gallons
Needle wheel Protein skimmer (can't remember the name but it is ASM
rated for 250 gallon tanks)
Macro algae in the sump.
5 gallons of water change a week.
The current fish are
1-Neon goby
1-6 Line Wrasse
1-3 Blue Chromis
300 lbs of live rock
Branching Frogspawn 10 heads
3 sea cucumbers (2 I rarely see)
100 mushrooms
40 Zoanthids
4 Ricordea
Thank you for your help. I really appreciate it.
Eric
<Well, Eric, the procedures involved in acclimating fish are well-documented
here on WWM. Do read the articles and FAQs for more information. In addition,
I'd consider obtaining my future fishes from another source. It may not be your
tank, or your skills...It may very well be the source of the fish. Give a new
supplier a chance! Best of luck to you! Scott F.>
Prob.s concerning bio cycle... new to commercial, SW... parasitic disease,
prevention, re-establishing sys. 4/26/06
To whoever picks this up:
Dear Sir,
I have been gathering too much info from your site the past few months while I
was trying to establish a wholesale point for marine fish and I am grateful to
you for this.
I ve seen that you help a lot of people with the problems they have and I was
wondering if you can help me too.
I have a commercial system with the power of handling 5 tons (currently use it
at its one 1/3 capacity)
<For other readers, often systems are measured elsewhere in their weight in
water>
(TMC Marine system) and 25 kg.s of biomass.
It has a 440W UV bio tower sand filter big skimmer... I had it working for a
month boosted with the Abil package for a quick 10 day cycle establishment.
<Theoretically... that is, under some standard...>
The water parameters were monitored and the cycle seemed to be working fine. The
NO2s went up and the then down after increasing the NO3s (Strangely a white
dusty byproduct was left down on the bottom of my tanks??)
<Not uncommon>
After that I had my first order coming from Indonesia. At the first 5-6 days
everything was good all the 150 fish (2-3 kg.s biomass) came to balance and got
back their beautiful colors. The next few days they started showing stress they
developed whitespot and started dying.
<Very common that wild fish are infested... you don't (yet) mention acclimation
or treatment procedures... these are extremely important, and detailed on WWM
for commercial and residential applications>
Until I realize what's going on half of my stock was dead my ammonia went to the
sky and my NO2s as well
<This is to be expected... from the dead, dying source of protein...>
the remaining of my stock I gave it to many of my friends because I couldn't
watch them die slowly any more.
<... are you sure you're suited to this/our industry?>
Now I am trying to get things going again and this is where I need your advice.
Should I keep the water I have in the system (artificial) or should I sterilize
everything and start from the beginning using sea water and wait for the cycle
to run again?
Thank you in advance for the help
Yiannis Christodoulou
<Having been in this situation before, and done both, I would bleach (sodium
hypochlorite likely) the system and start again... with the same water if it is
otherwise in "good shape". Please, do read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/acclimat.htm
and the many articles/FAQs files on Marine parasitic disease... Bob Fenner>
|
Emperor Angel, Breathing and Vertical - 5/11/06
Hi All,
<Dave>
I am a long time reader, first time writer who is (or more accurately, whose
fish is) potentially quickly running out of options.
I purchased a changing Emperor Angel from saltwaterfish.com. I have never
before had any troubles with them other than this. I followed my usual
acclimation procedure. I opened the bag and dripped for four hours to acclimate
him to my QT system. The acclimation container was dosed with Para Guard. This
took place last night.
<... four hours? ParaGuard has a toxic component>
Since I opened the bag and first looked at him, he has been breathing very
heavily and bobbing in a vertical position, head down.
<Did you match the pH of the drip water with that in the shipping bag?>
The vendor assured me that the fish is merely in shock from the stress of
shipping and that he would calm down.
<Something to hope for>
I don't believe that; I have seen this sort of thing happen before and an
shocked fish usually comes around
within 12 hours. This fish has been in the tank now for over 24 hours and has
shown no signs whatsoever of improvement.
<No quarantine?>
He continues to breathe at give or take 170 gill movements/minute, and bob
head down,
<Very bad signs>
usually at the top of the tank but will occasionally move down some.
The current seems to toss him around and when it gets him completely upside down
he rights himself only to resume his vertical position. He is refusing
food. He is sharing the QT system with an Assasi Trigger (separated by
eggcrate, of course) who is eating fine and seems to be in perfect health.
<Oh! Good>
I am worried that I am dealing with disease, possibly the early stages of Marine
Velvet.
<Mmm, not likely>
The fish has shown no physical signs other than what I described though; no
spots, no off colors, no scratching. I don't
want to dip him if unnecessary as I don't want to stress the fish any
further. I have not seen any feces to know if internal bacterial may be
to blame.
What action would you recommend, if any?
Thanks in advance,
Dave
<Is a bit late, but to have matched the pH... Please see here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/acclimat.htm
Particularly the Guerilla piece below... This is highly likely the root cause of
trouble here... shock, hemolysis from pH shift, endogenous ammonia... perhaps
with a Malachite burn to boot:
http://seachem.com/products/product_pages/ParaGuard.html
... I would try to stabilize this animal, leave the lights off... and add a
pentose or hexose sugar as proscribed on WWM. Bob Fenner>
Re: Emperor Angel, Breathing and Vertical -
5/11/06
Bob,
<Dave>
Thanks for your quick reply. I might not have been completely clear in my
message, but wanted to address your concerns to clarify if I had done something
wrong.
<Let's do... am a bit blurry from travel/ing>
Unfortunately, the fish died overnight. I am working with the vendor.
However, I think it prudent to do a "post-mortem" on my acclimation procedure to
make sure I did what I should have done.
<Good idea>
First, I acclimated over four hours, but only introduced Para Guard during the
last hour of the acclimation. I followed the directions on the bottle to the
letter.
<Mmm, am still (as you will find... from long practice) not a fan of using
Malachite... the principal ingredient, other than "aldehydes" in this fine
SeaChem product... in dips for newly arrived marine fishes>
Second, the drip water was from the quarantine tank which had in turn come from
the main tank, which was already at 8.3. You are correct in
assuming that I did not test the PH of the bag water and match it to the tank
water.
<You will find as well that this is an incredibly important step in moving
marines around in "long time" conditions... bringing livestock from one system
quickly (let's say an hour or so) from/to another is a very different matter>
I have never performed that step, but after perusing the acclimation guide
(quickly) it looks like you are talking about a FW dip.
<Mmm, no... this is a different concept/idea... protocol>
That is not a step I performed. I acclimated him to the QT tank's seawater.
Third, the fish exhibited this behavior even before I removed him from the
bag. Nothing changed about his behavior at any time, what I saw when I peered
into the bag even before cutting it open is what I described, ergo he did not
take on this behavior during the procedure, but rather he arrived this way.
<Yes... not unusual for marine angels, most marine fish groups to exhibit this
sort of behavior... indicative of "shipping stress"... low pH, coupled with low
dissolved oxygen, likely high CO2/carbonic acid concentration...>
Fourth, when I say the fish has been in the tank for 24 hours I mean the
quarantine tank, but I think you realized that further on in my message.
<Yes>
Given these clarifications, would you still say something was wrong with the way
I did things, or was the fish doomed from the start?
Thanks again for your help so far!
Dave
<Mmm, a matter of speculation/s and a few possible inputs, but if you had a
hundred, a thousand such fishes to process, you'd find that using Methylene
Blue, eschewing the use of Malachite Green, and especially adjusting/matching
the shipping water pH to the acclimation/dip water would save a significant
number of animals... this has become an "industry practice" of high regard...
largely due to the efforts of Phil Shane/Quality Marine and the fine folks at
TMC in the UK... to give credit where it's due. Bob Fenner>
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Poisoned Jawfish/Poor Method Of Acclimation? 9/27/06
Hi Everyone,
<Hello Caitlyn>
Recently I purchased a pearly Jawfish online. When he arrived today in the mail
he was in a tiny amount of water and looked near dead. I acclimated him anyways
but decided the fish would have the greatest chance for survival if I didn't put
it into a bare bottomed QT tank so instead I put him right into the display as
the only fish. The Jawfish is in an established 12 gal nano cube with a 20 gal
sump, protein skimmer, four inch sandbed, live rock, with WQ as follows:
temp. 78F
sal. 35ppt
Ammonia-0
nitrites-0
nitrates-0
pH-8.3
Here's the deal, when I released it into the tank it was breathing heavily, had
dark lines around its gills and a badly burned tail. It spiraled, did the "death
roll", laid upside down and gasped for about four hours. It then settled in a
rock cave breathing normally right side up. Now twelve hours later it is able to
scoot around the tank sand similar to a goby but still no tunnel building or
hovering. I have heard that ammonia poisoning can cause damage to the central
nervous system. Is it likely this Jawfish will act normally ever or did the
shipping damage him for good?
<Shippers generally will not feed fish 24 hours prior to shipping to minimize
ammonia poisoning in the shipping container. Whether this was done is anyone's
guess. I'm thinking this behavior was due to a poor method and/or too quick of
an acclimation. Don't believe any permanent damage was done. I'd keep the
lights off until normal behavior is noticed.>
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Thanks,
Re: Tesselata Eel
When you say "not if sufficient aeration added.." do you mean that I should
add an airstone to the Eel's bag while acclimating?
<Yes>
I heard once that this
will peak ammonia levels, certainly killing whatever is in the bag.. is this
false ?
<Not totally false, but highly unlikely... aeration may raise pH and if there is much ionized ammonia, convert it to a more toxic format... Best to add something to the protocol here: Check the ammonia concentration in the bag, if small (less than 0.25 ppm, to undetectable, add aeration... if more than a quarter of a part per million, keep changing out shipping water for new acclimation water till it is lower than 0.25 ppm and then add aeration...>
Should I aerate the bag while adding water?
<Same criterion>
Thanks again, I go to
pick up the new eel in an hour. (Hope you're near the pc, :)
I'll acclimate it without aeration until I hear from you.. and will ask LFS
if it is a good idea, perhaps they know.
Bill Hammond
<They should. Be chatting. Bob Fenner>
Touchy fish acclimation and feeding
Howdy Bob!
<Howdy, Chief! Anthony Calfo in your service while Bob sits in a corner trying to crack brazil nuts open with his forehead>
Because of all your good counsel and website information, my
personal contacts are at least dwindling in their frequency.
Thanks again, and I hope you will help me with a two-part question.
< I shall do my best>
Because my local LFS is dealing with some water-quality issues,
and I still have a backlog of pre-paid fish coming in, I have
taken to having them notify me ahead of their arrival (via
air freight), and I go right down when they get them in, and
bring them home. Naturally, this isn't as nice as if they had
been living and eating there at the LFS for a period of time,
but it is my present reality.
<we do the best we can with what we can>
Anyway, I carefully follow your guerilla guide to acclimation of
my new arrivals, but it is my impression that by the time I remove
them from their "combo-freshwater-shipping-water-with-blue-green-
additives" mix, they appear more sluggish and 'wiped-out' than
the ones from the same batch who go through an 'LFS standard'
acclimation (of gradually adding tank water into their bags and
then releasing). Watching my fish in their cat-litter-box they
just seem to sit and sometimes their back end curls around a bit
towards the front. I don't want to stress them further, so
I don't poke & prod, and usually, after about 5 to 7 minutes, I
gently transfer them to my lights-out acclimation tank. Sometimes
they speed away when I put them in, sometimes they just seem to
barely sink to the bottom, and hang out.
<quite natural>
So, part 1 of my question is this: Is this normal for a fish going through this kind of dip / acclimation treatment, and (just for reassurance) is it still better because of the reduced risk of disease than just mixing waters and releasing?
<indeed...cannot mix waters>
Part 2. In last night's delivery, I received a male/female pair
of purple queen Anthias (they didn't have Lyretail). I know they
are much more touchy fish, but they were beautiful looking
<Arggghhh... not the best reason when unprepared>
and I had spoken to someone who had had three in a very small and
simple reef for a long while
<more than a year and still fat at that time?>
, so I decided to give it a shot. They are still sitting on the bottom of the acclimation tank, breathing OK, and watching with their eyes, but not real motivated to eat. I am going to try "first flake",
<I'll eat your hat if they eat flake for you.. hehe. Need meaty food...may even have to resort to live>
and Mysis shrimp, but wondered if you had any good ideas about how to tempt one of these pretties into eating?
<frozen mysids and Pacifica plankton are good whole foods in the long run...a good specialized homemade recipe like in Bob's CMA will be better. In the meantime, try gut loaded live guppies or ghost shrimp if the fish are large enough, or enriched live brine
(Selcon) if still small>
Thank you so much for your help. Sincerely, Jim Raub
<keep us posted please. with kind regards, Anthony>
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