Asfur Size question, and comp.   10/1/08
Hello,
<Mornin' Ross>
I've enjoyed your site for several years now. I have a question that seems simple, but I've had a hard time finding answers in the literature.
I have an Asfur Angel. He's been in my one year old fish-only, resin insert 500 gal tank (+180 gal sump with AquaC EV1000) since the start. He survived the Ich that killed a lot of his friends. He's bossy, but tolerated 2 other angels (a smaller Asfur and a Majestic), before the ich got them. The tank is stable now that I've gotten a temperature controller. He shares it with 3 chromis, 2 fairy wrasses, a Lyretail Anthias, Lawnmower Blenny, and 2 Heniochus Butterflies. It's pretty empty for a tank that size.
<I can imagine>
My question: How big will he get? He has grown from 6" when I got him to 9" now. The books say he can hit 15", but I have searched everywhere for an aquarium reference. No one seems to really know how big he'll get in the
aquarium.
<Mmm, can make a good guess... would grow to an overall length of 15" or so over a number of years, but will be slower as time goes by... Likely an inch or so a year till about a foot... then more like half an inch more in successive years>
The reason I ask, is I am considering adding fish now that the tank is stable. I am curious about a queen angel.
<Mmm, I would look to other families of fishes other than Pomacanthids... perhaps a leaning toward a biotopic arrangement (other Red Sea life)... Do give a look here: http://wetwebmedia.com/redseafwgv1.htm
and the linked files above... I'd be asking about for some of the species of Wrasses, Tangs... found here>
I am interested to hear what you think.
Ross Kaplan
<You have. Bob Fenner>

Large angelfishes in 170 gallon tanks   8/19/07
Dear Bob and friends,
<Hey there>
Thank you for all your previous answers to my questions. I spent so much time reading through. I have two tanks and they are both 170 gallons. I only want to keep two large angelfish in one tank and 7 green Chromis and 2 clownfish in each tank.
My question is can I mix one Pomacanthus Asfur with one Pomacanthus Imperator in one 170 gallon tank with 7 Chromis and 2 clownfish.
The other 170 gallon tank with one P. Maculosus and a Scribbled Angelfish (Chaetodontoplus duboulayi). There will be no other fishes. I really love to keep only large angelfishes.
Thank you and I would really appreciate your answer. It would be so helpful for me. Thank you again.
<Mmm, I would not do this... Some folks, companies have very good success actually crowding Pomacanthids (et al. families) together in greater numbers in large marine systems... but in this case... One's company, two's an untenable crowd... I would just go with one large Angel species in such a size tank... and the Red Sea Angels, larger tanks at that. Bob Fenner>

info's about big Mac and Asfur   6/12/06
Dear WetWebMedia, first of all i
<I>
want to thank you guys for the help giving me to solve the problem of my imperator. Now everything is solved!
I have a Maculosus in my tank (around 600 ltr)
<Will need more room>
and i was wondering if it could be possible to purchase an Asfur too.
<I would not mix these congeners in this sized system>
I know it might seems weird, but i really love the little Arusetta!
<These are gorgeous, intelligent marine Angels... but not compatible in any but huge systems>
I've heard that the fishes from Red Sea area are downright friendly, surely less problematical than other specimens.
<More so of the same species than elsewhere in their range in general... but not all by far>
My question is: Can i purchase the Arusetta and store it together with the Mac without a massacre or a fish-carnage?
Thank you very much!
Best greetings
Luke
<Again, I would not do this. These animals don't associate in the wild... in fact, they are rarely seen "paired" with their own species. Bob Fenner>

Asfur Angel/Compatibility    4/15/06
Hello, <Hello Photon Fan>
I enjoy your site and find it to be one of the most helpful on the web... <Thank you.> I have a 125 gallon reef tank. I recently purchased and just introduced a Flame Angel (about 3 inches long) a pair male and female Ocellaris clowns, a small blonde Naso and a Kole Tang. I was reading up on the Asfur Angel, it seems to be one of the more reef compatible angels out there. Is this true? <With caution, they are known to rip at hard and soft corals.> I have a large leather and a smaller leather that is a light blue color that I cannot identify, along with hammer, torch and a large colony of metallic green mushrooms and three large groupings of Xenia( they don't stop multiplying) and a soft moon coral. Are these corals considered noxious? <Wouldn't think so, just prolific.> And can I add the Asfur to my reef? <That will be your decision to make, no angel is completely reef safe.  Do search/read on this fish before making a final decision.> I also have 2 Burgundy Seastars and one large coral banded shrimp...Thank you  <You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>

Stocking Levels   3/3/06
Hello,
<Hi there>
I have a 150 Gallon FOWLR tank with a 75 gallon sump.  I have a skimmer that produces 2 cups of skimmate per week.  My current stock includes a 4 inch maculosus angel (very timid),
<A showcase beauty though... will become more forthright with time>
2 pajama cardinals, 2 percula clowns, a 4 inch Soldierfish, 3 Heniochus diphreutes, and 1 Cirrhilabrus cyanopleura.  I am looking to add another fish to my tank.
  Please let me know how any of the following would do.
Chaetodontoplus septentrionalis
Chaetodontoplus caeruleopunctatus
Chaetodontoplus duboulayi
Pomacanthus Paru
<I'd leave off with adding any other large angel species... In fact, you'll need a system of double this size in time with the Mac.>
Centropyge loricula
a member of the Fusilier family
Longnose Hawkfish
Coris gaimard
<... Mmm, of these, I'd go with the Hawk... most likely to get along... Or consider adding another Heni, or Velvet Wrasse females...>
Thanks for your help, and if you have any other suggestions of possible fish please let me know.
Jeff Tulson
<Be thinking of that larger tank... where's it going to go? Bob Fenner>

Star Destroyer!
Hi Wet Web Crew,
My Juvenile (1-2") tank raised Map Angel (Pomacanthus maculosus) just tore apart my orange Linckia star, two legs are now missing.
<Bummer)
Now I have the star in plastic container inside the tank.  They are both in my 80 gal reef and have been together for about a month.  I have noticed the Angel picking at some other corals (leathers) but not doing much damage but now he needs to be moved.
<It's just going to get worse, in most cases. Good idea to relocate him before more damage is incurred>
I was wondering if I could put him in my 75 gal FOWLR, the current inhabitants are a 2' zebra moray 18" snowflake moray and a 2" fuzzy dwarf lion (Dendrochirus brachypterus).  They have been with smaller fish before and have been fine (1" blue tang).  Thank you for your reply and providing this great website.
<I think that he will be okay for a while in that tank. However, this tank is getting to be on the crowded side. The fishes in that tank are messy, voracious eaters that can degrade the water quality in even the best-maintained aquariums in relatively short time. Plus, the size that the angelfish will ultimately attain dictates a much larger aquarium (150gal plus) if you want him to live a long, healthy life. Good luck! regards, Scott F>

Asfur Angel and tank mates
Bob, this is the guy who merged the 55 to the 225 (72X24X30) over the weekend.   I believe it went very successfully as my water quality seems to be fine (no surge at this point).  Once the cloudy water cleared up I was ok (so far so good).
<Ahh, good>
I plan on waiting about a month or so to add other fish.   I am going to use my old 55 for a quarantine tank.  
<Good plan>
I want to eventually add a few fish only as I believe in keeping these fish happy for the long-term (I have kept Angel fish in the past for 10 + years and they really can become a "Family" pet).  I know I want to add a Sohal tang and possibly a Red Sea Raccoon).  By then my Asfur will be territorial.   How do you recommend the order for doing this or will it even work?  
<The Sohal should go in last... put in the Raccoon.... and maybe a few Golden/Gold Mask Butterflies... first>
I believe the Sohal will go in ok but the Asfur may attack the butterfly???   What other Red Sea fish would make a good tank mate for the Asfur.   
<Please see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/redseafwgv1.htm>
I plan on having no more than 4 fish that grow to any size and many inverts (shrimp, starfish and the like).   Any suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you so much for all your help.   Over the years, I have found you to be the most knowledgeable, assessable, and helpful person on any subject of Marine Aquaria.
Thanks again for all you do.
Andrew
<Thank you my friend. Bob Fenner>

Important: Need clarification on Pomacanthus maculosus and Scarlet Cleaner shrimp
Hi Bob,
<Jessica>
We received this Angel as a gift (shipped) for our 150 gallon tank. I found the fish profile on your site. It stated that he will eat everything in the tank as far as anemones, algae, tubeworms, corals. My question is will he eat Cleaner Shrimp, Red Reef Hermit Crabs and Turbo Snails?
<Probably not. If there is sufficient hiding spots for the shrimp, they can likely hide out during molts>
He's been in a 40 gallon quarantine tank with a Decorator crab and a Purple lobster for six weeks and couldn't care less. I've moved all my corals to a smaller tank. He seems to have a great personality, if that doesn't sound crazy.
<Not crazy at all. This is my opinion as well for this species>
He's currently about five inches long and acts like a hungry dog. In the 150, I have a Forcipiger Longirostris, Centropyge bispinosa, Cirrhilabrus luteovittatus, Amphiprion Ocellaris (2), Pseudanthias squamipinnis, and Chrysiptera taupou. They've all been together for almost three years and get along great. The tank has 160 lb. of live rock, EuroReef protein skimmer, U.V., lots of circulation and plenty of swimming room. I know he'll reach 11" to 12." The only other fish that will reach any significant size is the Butterfly at 9", currently 5 1/2 ."  Eventually I'll work my way into a bigger tank, literally.
<Yes>
Thank you for all the information provided on your web site. You guys are a
wealth of information and support!
James Thomas
Plantation, FL
<Thank you for writing. Bob Fenner>

Good News From the Quarantine Front!
>Hi Marina,
>>Hi Kurt, nice to hear back from you.
>Well everyone is back in the pool after an 8 week fallow period and everyone is doing fine (keeping fingers crossed). Spotless and eating like pigs.  
>>FANTASTIC!
>I have only 1 problem. My Mac is picking at the starfish and urchins.
>>Aw.. <sniff sniff>, he's being a true angel fish.  I'm Faklempt.
>No damage yet, but it has me a bit concerned. My Yellow Tang has 2 more weeks in quarantine but after she is introduced, do you think she might distract the Mac enough to stop this?
>>Heh, probably not my friend.  Try adding some Nori (sheets of seaweed) for the angel to nibble on all day long is my suggestion, but now that you'll create "The Poop Machine".
>Any ideas, or just time.  Thanks for your advise, help.  Kurt
>>It's been my pleasure, Kurt, especially knowing that you're now meeting with success!  Our collective goal is accomplished.  Marina

Maculosus Angel and Maroon Clown
I have a 55g tank with a 3.5 in. captive-bred Maroon Clown (Crusty), 2.5 in. captive-bred Orchid Dottyback (Mr. Pink), a 1.5 in. Eibl's Angel (Rasta) and about 50 lbs of rock.  Everyone is getting along great even though Crusty is the dominant fish.  I have an opportunity to get a 2 in. tank raised juvenile Maculosus Angel and I will be stepping up to a 150-180g tank within a year.  I know the Mac would be much smaller than Crusty but I understand that Macs usually establish themselves as the dominant fish.  Do you predict a battle that could end in a casualty if I introduce the Mac?
<Possibly... but at least too much tension than I would like... Even the larger tank will not be big enough for more than a year or so... psychologically for the Maculosus>
The bigger tank would lower the threshold of potential conflict but because the Mac is tank raised and I don't come across them very often, I want to get it right away.  So I'm seeking expert advice before I get into something that may not turn out good.  Thanks.
<I would switch out the Maroon/Crusty if you feel you must have the larger Angel. Bob Fenner>

Asfur Angel Stocking Concern
Dear Bob (or one of your associates):
<MikeD here>
It's been some time since I've last written, but I would like your input regarding a 180-gallon FOWLR tank that's been up and running very well for exactly 10 months.  This tank houses two smaller wrasses (a golden wrasse and a tricolor wrasse)<Here's hoping that these two stay compatible as they grow.  I'm not familiar with either under those trade names with many wrasses get extremely intolerant of relatives as they grow and mature.>, a pygmy angelfish, a Flameback angelfish < the same problem here....the Flameback IS a pygmy angel, with no way to tell which other pygmy angel you're referring to.  I'd use caution in adding any other small angels as those two have obviously adapted and established territory by now.>, a medium-size Foxface and a beautiful fish I added about four months ago -- a 4-inch Asfur angel with full adult coloration.  The Asfur was so perfect and priced so right ($69.99) that I just had to get him, and I did.  Also in the tank are two cleaner shrimp, four large Trochus snails, and a couple of white sand-sifting starfish.
The tank has been doing great and all of these fish get along just fine with very few problems.  Keep in mind the Asfur was added last to this group.  Here's the problem.  The Asfur, despite his smaller size, is in full command of the tank.  I've tried to introduce several fish since he was added and he has zero tolerance for newcomers.  A large Auriga Butterflyfish was restricted to an upper corner of the tank and could not settle in.  He had to be removed.  Other fish have been met with the same determined resistance.
I'd like to stock more fish in this tank so I'm interested in your recommendations.  I realize that I could always remove the Asfur, introduce more peaceful fish, and then re-introduce him at a later time.  But, that does not always guarantee compatibility -- especially in tanks with live rock where caves and hiding places are fiercely guarded.<Sadly, in an established tank there are rarely any guarantees, but your idea of segregating the Asfur may well end up being your method of best result.  The Foxface eliminates adding any further Rabbitfish, as this is the most aggressive of the family and usually doesn't tolerate relatives, even remote.>  What other types of fish would you consider adding that would be able to hold their own with a dominant Angel such as this one, yet leave my invertebrates alone?  Would a medium-sized Sohal Tang be able to handle this situation?< A tang, of course , is a possibility, and a Sohal of comparative size to the angel may fight back enough to fit in, keeping in mind that tangs too are usually "one to a tank per family" fish.>   Any other fish without making this tank "too" aggressive?<Possibly a Heniochus (Bannerfish), as far as larger, open water species? While the triggers of the genus Xanthichthys are attractive, active and peaceful for the family, they may well decide to remove the cleaner shrimp, so would be risky and still might be too docile for the angel at the same time. Some of the larger sand-sifting gobies might be worth considering as well, being of a type often ignored by angels.  As you've found out the hard way, small mouthed is not necessarily peaceful.>  
As always, thanks for your input.
Sam Mancini

Asfur Beat up by Purple Tang
Hi Crew,
<Mike>
How's everybody in the wet world? My tank is 8x2x2 has been running for 4 months So far 80lbs of live rocks whooo it ain't a joke trying to fill this up.
Tank is running excellent current inhabitants: 1 Ocellaris, 5 Green Chromis, 1 Purple Firefish, 1 Coral Banded Shrimp, 1 Lawnmower Blenny and my Current addition from the QT the pit-bull Purple Tang!!
<Yikes, a new breed!>
He's been in the main tank for a week. And I purchased an Asfur that's been in the store for 4 Months 4 inches adult coloration. When I released him in the main tank I didn't bother to QT as I've been watching this guy for quite sometime co'z no money = ) He went straight in to the Purple Tangs hang out place inside the big shipwreck when I turned the lights on he has so much scratches on the body with a long slice on the right side and a deep dent. My jaws just dropped Pomacanthus got his butt whoop by tang what is going on??
<The tang is bigger, badder, was there first...>
He ate like crazy and the purple tang was still jerky every time he goes inside the shipwreck freaking shipwreck last night I wanted to throw it away. He is swimming around with pit-bull watching every moves. After I fed them I turned off the lights and went to bed thinking about my beautiful asfur. The next day I sat by the tank turned on the lights he was swimming and the tang seems to calm down except wherever the asfur goes the tang just keeps on following him and swimming closely to the rockwork. My question is I am worried about this scratches and the dent on my Asfur's body will this be permanent or scar?
<Likely not>
I am watching with fingers cross that he doesn't get a infection what are my chances?
<Pretty good... large tank, otherwise healthy specimen... very likely tank bred, reared... so low stress>
He is breathing normally. I just need to hear it from you guys. for peace of mind if I lose him my wife would definitely kill me please I need your expertise what should I do?. Thank you again more power to WETWEBMEDIA!!! Regards to all Aquarists!!
Mike-
<Bob Fenner>