FAQs about the Yellow Band (and Asfur) Angels Systems

FAQs about the Yellow Band (and Asfur) Angels Systems

Angelfishes for Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care
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by Robert (Bob) Fenner

Maculosus/Red Sea lvstk, low spg 10/9/19
Bob -
<Steve>
Quick question....I noticed when reading Conscientious Aquarist that you stayed with Maculosus Angels salinity should be maintained 1.025-26.
<Mmm; yes... not lower as many people maintain captive marine systems at artificially low salinity, and not necessarily the 10% or so higher as seawater strength in the Red Sea itself... for various reasons>
I am in the midst of building a large fish only and was planning on running it at 1.020 (for lesser pathogen load, higher DO, and less osmotic load on fish).
<Yes... >
Is the “higher” salinity requisite for the Maculosus? If so I might rethink things for such a gorgeous animal!
<It is much better for all sea life originating from the/this area. Captive produced specimens are more tolerant of low spg (if you can find, secure them)>
Cheers,
Steve Offutt
<And you, Bob Fenner>
Re: Travis Carter’s Mega Angel Tank 10/10/19
Great point on Captive bred specimens. I know Kevin Kohen is bringing in some CB to Divers Den.
<Ahh! Good. This Arusetta is one of the earliest bred Angels.>
Looking forward to listening to your talk in Chicago weekend after next!
<Do please introduce yourself. Cheers, BobF>

Vertical housing for an Asfur Angel      3/24/19
Hi Bob and crew. I have thought of what might be a good use for a '70s steel office desk (60 x 30 inches): a new aquarium! This desk is very heavy and stable, and so it should support a 60 x 30 x 40 inch tank (about 300 ga).
<Mmm; with substrate, rock... this system might well weigh in near 3,000 some pounds. I'd test it for such... out in a parking lot>
The last dimension is deliberate. I wanted to have a major drop-off so that while the upper level will have high light demanding SPS, I can take advantage of the loss of T5 lighting with depth and place medium or low-light SPS (e.g. certain Seriatopora) lower. But not too many. And rock will be fine, too.
I wanted to allow large areas of open space, shadowed caves, that sort of thing. I realized lately from a dive just how flat reef aquariums tend to be.
I had planned to have one big fish in this tank, an Asfur. I would probably add a small harem of Anthias, and another of flasher wrasses. Perhaps a group of cardinals as well. But these would not add much fish mass. The question is whether this tank length would please the angel. Some fish species "think" in terms of length mostly. Do you have advice about this particular angel species?
<Lots; do search WWM re; using the common, scientific name.... my article, FAQs input is archived there.>
Of course I also want to choose species that inhabit different levels of the tank. I do not want to see that artificial "pacing" that I've seen so often. And some "reef" fish do not like intense lighting.
Best wishes, John D.
<Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Re: Vertical housing for an Asfur Angel        3/26/19
Thanks, Bob. I've researched for several hours. In fact, no one ever sees to have suggested a tank with the geometry or volume I am proposing, and every other instance involves multiple large angel species in the same tank--which is a radically different matter. I believe that this single specimen, being also the only large species in the tank, will have sufficient "psychological space."
Therefore, I will go forward with my plan. John
<Real good John. Do please send along periodic updates. Bob Fenner>
Re: Vertical housing for an Asfur Angel        3/26/19
Two more points on this tank. First while I am convinced the desk would hold its weight easily (as I said, all thick steel), I did not think to check on the floor.
<Yikes! IF not a concrete pad on soil I'd at least spread the weight out by placing a sheet of plywood under all feet>
The aquarium I have specked out will have unusually thick glass, in fact, and a very solid, supported aluminum frame, because of its dimensions.
<Have you considered acrylic?>
This will be a huge weight over a smaller than usual footprint, supported at only four points. Thanks for making the point about the weight.
<Sure>
Second, in all my reading I did not encounter one logical follow-up: if P. asfur is an aqua-dog, why do we not play with it accordingly?
<Indeed I would, have>
At the Eilat aquarium, a handler of an octopus told me if they didn't give this creature problems to solve (usually involving opening up different containers with food in them) it would die early. In fact, interaction with the fishes generally was more "personal" than usual. Why not treat our large angels, who are sometimes caught because of their curiosity, more interactively?
<I know lots of folks that do so interact w/ more intelligent groups of fishes>
Anyway, thanks for your ideas. I am finding this whole area unexpectedly interesting.
<Even a five foot long system will prove too small in as many years time... Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Question on Asfur Angelfish, sys., comp. 10/21/13
Dear Wet Web Media Crew,
<Hello John>
First, I would like to thank you for all of your great work . I have been reading your site for about six years, almost on a daily basis, which I enjoyed very much. I have only written to you one time before so I would like to pester you again haha.
<You are a stranger here but once. I re-welcome you>
Here is a little about my system, it consists of a 210 tank, a 125 tank, 90 tank, two 30 gallon refugiums, and a one-hundred gallon sump. The system is set up so all of the tanks flow into the sump. I have a total of 400 pounds of live rock and I run a P revision M arine skimmer, which is rated for 750 gallons. Today I would just like to talk about my 210 gallon tank. Right now, this tank has a six-inch Hippo Tang, four-inch Yellow Tang, five-inch Naso-Tang, two Ocellaris Clowns, one small Hawkfish. I just purchased a six-inch Asfur Angelfish and it is the first one that I have ever owned.
<Wonderful animals... intelligent, comical... about as close as one can come to an "aqua dog"... Though I will state, you will really want a larger system... for this fish and your Naso... perhaps a three hundred gallon plus, eight foot plus length...>
It is a remarkable fish. It has been in quarantine in a 55 gallon tank for one week. It looks fantastic, it's eating great, all since day one.
Here is my question. When I purchased this fish, I took 25 gallons of the store's water and used 25 gallons of my own water.
<Good>
Normally when I acclimate a new fish into my system I run a small hose from my display to my quarantine back to my display and slowly combine the water. My only concern this time is that since I used their water, will this be an issue?
<Not likely; no>
How long do you recommend waiting to be safe?
<Perhaps another week would be prudent; longer will not be of any real benefit; and start to diminish the quality of your angel>
I also have a Lunar Wrasse for about two years in my 125 gallon tank. I would also like to add him to the 210 gallon tank. What are your feelings on the compatibility of these fish?
<All should get along; though there's always a possibility... more, most likely that there may be an issue some distant time twixt your tangs (yes...) Put off with moving all into the aforementioned larger world>
Thank you again for all of your insightful advice and discussion.
Thanks,
John Z.
<A pleasure. Bob Fenner>

Gold Stripe Maroon Clownfish/Maculosus Systems 5/17/2011
<Hello JS>
I always email you folks if I can't find a thorough enough answer to my question on WWM. I want to buy this Gold Stripe Maroon Clown at my lfs which is bright red and about 3.25". I read contradictory statements multiple times regarding color of this species. I do not like the dark maroon so at 3.25" do you think this is the adult coloration of this clown at this size?
<Mmmm, generally the Yellow Stripe/Gold Stripe Maroon Clownfish is similar to the Maroon Clownfish
except it has yellow stripes on the forehead, midsection, and tail, instead of white.>
Or will he most likely go darker maroon with age and size?
<I'd bet the fish will turn dark. At 3.25", the fish has a few more inches to grow before reaching adult size of around 6".>
Lastly, I just purchased a 3.5" Maculosus angel for my 90gal Fowlr and looking at the pics of this fish on Google, I see that they're a blue/purple color as adults. Mine, on the other hand, is dark gray and yellow....will he get lighter and brighter with age?
<Juveniles tend to be dark blue with white stripes. A pic would help here.>
Is this angel a beauty at larger sizes or just average?
<It's a beauty in my opinion but a 90 gallon tank is a bit small for this fish, problems forthcoming. Suggest reading here. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/maculosus.htm>
Thanks guys!
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Re Gold Stripe Maroon Clownfish/Maculosus Systems 5/17/2011
Oh ok.....yes I read the link that was in your email and that's what validated my decision to purchase this angel. Bob states..."an uncrowded 100gal minimum to start off this angel". Mine is about 3.5-4" or so.
<Hello JS
And keep in mind that Bob states to "start off this angel", that meaning not a permanent home. As I stated, problems forthcoming unless you plan on a larger system
down the road. James (Salty Dog)>
Re Gold Stripe Maroon Clownfish/Maculosus Systems 5/17/2011
Oh....I don't know what I said to make you believe this was a permanent home....its not.
<You didn't say anything to make me believe it was a permanent home. Just commented in the event it was. James (Salty Dog)>

Maculosus Angel/Care 10/16/07 Would a 3.5 inch Maculosus Angel be ok for a 75 gallon fish only tank for about a year , would like to get a 125 sooner or later. <I guess that depends on how many fish will be sharing the tank with him. Ron, is your shift key broke? Had to edit words that should have been capped. Does help us if we do not have to do this.> Thanks, <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Ron

Large angelfishes in 170 gallon tanks 8/19/07 Dear Bob and friends, <Hey there> Thank you for all your previous answers to my questions. I spent so much time reading through. I have two tanks and they are both 170 gallons. I only want to keep two large angelfish in one tank and 7 green Chromis and 2 clownfish in each tank. My question is can I mix one Pomacanthus Asfur with one Pomacanthus Imperator in one 170 gallon tank with 7 Chromis and 2 clownfish. The other 170 gallon tank with one P. Maculosus and a Scribbled Angelfish (Chaetodontoplus duboulayi). There will be no other fishes. I really love to keep only large angelfishes. Thank you and I would really appreciate your answer. It would be so helpful for me. Thank you again. <Mmm, I would not do this... Some folks, companies have very good success actually crowding Pomacanthids (et al. families) together in greater numbers in large marine systems... but in this case... One's company, two's an untenable crowd... I would just go with one large Angel species in such a size tank... and the Red Sea Angels, larger tanks at that. Bob Fenner>

Mac angel I have a Maculosus angel that's pretty big. When I purchased him, he was about 10" long. Its about 2 years now, he's been in my 240 gallon system. How come he hasn't grown a bit?? I know Macs can get really big . Will he ever get any bigger in my enclosed system?? Thanks, oh he's healthy and has been eating like a horse. Thanks Lee <This may be about as large as this specimen will get in your setting. Psychological factors, metabolite feedback loops... may conspire to limit this specimen. Bob Fenner>

Mum's the Word (Angel Selection...) A quick question. Just how long would I be able to keep an Asfur or Maculosus in the 180 before needing a larger system? Long enough to get a significant other attached to it, and to save enough money, so that I could start a SECOND 300-gallon system with full approval? (Would probably need about 18 months to swing it. . .) (And don't tell a soul I asked you this. .) <Hoping your significant other doesn't browse the FAQs, but about a year to a year and a half... Bob Fenner> JD--always planning ahead. . . James A. Deets

Asfur Angels Question... Hi Bob, I just purchased a beloved Asfur this evening. A real Beauty. I had been fortunate to observe and put him on hold for 6 months at my dealer's store. <Wow! A great species to have on hand for so long> He is great. Nice and plump from eating everything you throw at him. He shows the normal aggressive behavior and is my center piece. <A good place> I have 11 years of Marine Experience and have kept several Big Angels. Some of my accomplishments have been a Majestic Angel, Queen Angel, Koran Angel, and Flames of Course. After setting up my 75 Gal (First Big Tank At least big to me) I have added a 4 inch specimen with a maroon clown and a Fiji Devil. I plan on adding a Desjardini Sailfin Tang, a Red Sea Raccoon (In keeping with species from them same region) <Great> and a Bicolor Parrot or Hippo Tang. <Skip the Cetoscarus bicolor, go with the Paracanthurus> Adding all a couple of weeks apart to let the Bacteria keep up. Now to my question. I have read much about the Asfur. I have read about there normal habits and feed, etc. After seeing the size of the systems of those in the QA portion 125+ I started to wonder about the size of my tank. <Me too... I generally suggest a 300 gallon about now...> I thought he would be in for the long haul in my new tank but I am beginning to scratch my head. I really am happy with a 75 and may upgrade a couple of years down the road to a 110 (It will fit on the stand) but is the Asfur going to grow too large? <Yes, psychologically ahead of physiologically...> All of the material I have read stated that the Angel, in the wild, normally attains the size of 6 inches or so and has even been associated as a pygmy angel. <What? Nah... have seen them near their full size of sixteen inches in the wild, had ones of over a foot in length in captivity... Who do you recall making such statements? Please see Pomacanthus asfur on our site (www.WetWebMedia.com) and FishBase.org...> I am really confused. I understand that there is a firm distinction between the Asfur and Maculosus (Forgive the spelling) as it has been nonchalantly avoided by questioners. The Mac, I understand, can grow to 18 inches, I have seen one that large. I have a large Wet Dry Unit with in Sump Protein skimmer, a couple of power heads for circulation and an Aragonite bed. I have even added a high powered pump for a gentle mist of bubbles for added surface agitation to oxygenate the water even more then the wet dry unit will provide. <Good idea> Lighting is on a timed schedule (Power compacts both white and actinic to stimulate algae for nutrition) There is a lot of free swimming space and he is doing quite well (Even coming out in the last couple hours and exploring his surroundings). He is fully shaped and the colors are very prominent. No sign of infection, disease, or lost finnage. <Yes, this is likely a tank-raised individual out of the Far East... quite common nowadays, and fabulous> Can you give me some advice pertaining to growth and true classification. Hardiness is no question in my mind. Surely rivaling and overtaking that of Navarchus (Her royal Majesty) Thank you in advance... <Do take a look on our site and FishBase... Growth can be six inches in a year to nine in two to eleven or so in three... Bob Fenner> Mark, Maryland

Pygmy associated (re: Asfur Angels Question...) It was referenced that the Asfur had been considered pygmy because of its small size in The Book of the Marine Aquarium by Nick Dakin. <Wowzah! Nick is a much more careful writer than this... very surprising> It is a wonderful overview of marine keeping and very informative as far as the advanced portion of the hobby. Julian Sprung was also an associate writer on the book so the source seems correct and experienced. <Well...> Not that I am refuting your debate. <Not refutable in this case... have collected this fish in the Red Sea, N.W. Indian Ocean over years time...> Thanks for the info. Will check out your site. <And most recent book which includes a Fishwatcher's Guide to the Fishes of the Red Sea... Bob Fenner> Mark <<I should have suggested looking on fishbase.org: http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/speciesSummary.php?ID=11194&genusname=Pomacanthus&speciesname=asfur ... stated length... 40 cm., 16 inches. RMF>>

Red Sea Angels Mr. Fenner, Last week I emailed asking a question concerning mixing angels. I have a Red Sea Juvenile Imperator and you informed me that it was better to stick with species from the Red Sea (don't know if this included angels from the same family). Anyway, I found a small Asfur from the Red Sea, would this be wise to mix with the Imperator? <If you have a large enough system (depending on the size of the two angels to start a couple of hundred gallons), this should be fine. It is so that "generally" large Pacific and Indian Ocean Angels/Pomacanthids of similar size, color especially, don't mix well... but the Red Sea is a "different" place in many ways... Bob Fenner> Ron

New Angel Hi Anthony, <Steven Pro taking a few for Antoine. He is getting a little behind with the emails since we have begun work on the first book from the WetWebMedia crew.> You might remember be from a month or so back. Well cutting a long story short, and after lots of reading etc., I purchased a Maculosus Angel. He is about 2.5" long, settled in great, and looks like he is in the middle of his color transfer, as he has a huge yellow band from the tip of his dorsal to about 2/3's down his flank. As I mentioned before, I had reasonable success with an Imperator angel, growing him from 2.5' to 6-7', through color change etc'¦. only to loose him to a freak and substantial power failure last winter. I loved that angel so much, and I read that the Maculosus angel is a lot hardier etc, so I thought I would probably be able to provide him with a good home. <Seems like a reasonable choice.> I obviously know basic Pomacanthus care etc, but this time I want to make as good an effort as possible, with the benefit of the previous Pomacanthus experience. He is currently housed in a 84'x18'x20' tank, and is destined for my new 79'x30'x30' tank in about 10 -- 12 months time. <Wow, truly refreshing! We get some many questions from people asking us if they can cram this or that fish in small to moderate aquarium.> I feed the best diet at my disposal, with includes a couple of dried foods (Kent pellets, for carnivores and for herbivores), a wide range of frozen foods including red plankton, krill, squid, brine shrimp (plain, Spirulina and omega enriched), Mysis, mussel, cockle, and I also feed Nori (red and green) on a daily basis. Weekly 10 -- 20% water changes are conducted, and I am presently letting the S.G. rise to about 1.024. <Could go even a little higher for this Red Sea fish, but all your husbandry sounds solid.> Basically, I am just looking that I am on the right track with this species, as per the Imperator, and was wondering is there anything else I can do to optimize his health, growth, ultimate size and color? <I would recommend adding an Angelfish particular frozen food that has sponge matter in it. Also, perhaps soaking some of the foods in Selcon and/or Vita-Chem.> This fish will be the center-piece specimen, and definitely dominant. Tank mates will be a couple of tangs (Regals and Yellows), and a couple of lion fish (volitans and D. brachypterus). How fast can I expect this angel to grow, and under these conditions, how big would you expect him to get? <Not a particularity fast grower, but once in the big tank, should easily reach close to one foot in length.> Would you suggest any further measures? <You did not get into a lot of your equipment, but a big skimmer and refugium/algae harvesting and export would be a good idea. You may also want to consider a generator or other device for those power outages. At the very least, having a few battery operated air pumps around for emergencies.> Thanks for reading. Regards, Matt <Good luck to you and your fish. -Steven Pro>

Wrasse and angel Hi guys, 2 Quick questions. Tank is 72"x18"x18". Home to my Asfur angel and volitans lion. Each about 2.5 to 3". (1). I know how big Asfurs get in the wild, but how big is he likely to get in my tank, given an average diet and water quality. <About eight inches standard length, ten overall (ends of unpaired fins)... six in a year... the rest within two likely> (2). I love a lunare wrasse (Thalassoma lunare). If I got a small one, is he likely to cause havoc. <Should be fine with the Asfur. Bob Fenner> I had one before, but I was very inexperienced, and I made the mistake of him being one of the first introductions to the tank ..... as he result he was a bit of a bully. Cheers,
Matt

Angelfishes for Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care
New eBook on Amazon: Available here
New Print Book on Create Space: Available here

by Robert (Bob) Fenner

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