Thanks for the Education... QTs and FW dip  6/5/06
Bob & the wonderful crew
<Adlai>
Just wanted to Thank You for saving me from "Mucho" pain by getting me into the habit of using QTs and FW dip. I must admit I am not perfect and really thought it was overkill at first but after my recent episode. I am going to be even more careful. One note - I am leaning towards giving fish that I receive from online vendors a day or 2 in QT BEFORE doing a FW dip- I figured that the fish need to regain their strength before stressing them out again. Do you agree?
<Yes>
Anyway, my second reason for writing, I had just received a Blue Regal Tang from a fellow hobbyist
who has a spectacular tank. He looked great and I was very tempted to do a FW dip, acclimate him and have him immediately join my reef setup but for some reason ( you guys!) decided not to and put him into a QT instead. Guess what? A couple of days later I saw what I believed was ICH -I was so upset and began to panic and then realized the fish was in a QT Tank and my display was safe. I did a FW dip with methylene blue and the spots disappeared. I was so amazed I wrote to you guys ( I think Bob replied), asking whether ICH or at least what I thought was ICH could be resolved in a day. I was warned that it was not possible and that the symptoms would most likely reappear -and  it did!!
<Easy to foretell such with experience...>
Long story short,  I treated the Regal with Seachem's Paraguard (I did not want to use copper)  and after about 2-3 weeks and several baths (Paraguard and FW) with no signs of Crypto, I finally introduced him to his new tankmates where he is really happy (He was always hiding in the QT).
<Outstanding>
My only questions after reading other horror stories is a) Should I have waited longer
<Not likely>
b) the FAQs have different opinions but how safe is hyposalinity and is it recommended and
<Usually safe, but I don't recommend it/not effective... others here do>
c) since the Regal  is already in the tank is there something I can do to reduce the likelihood of ICH occurring in my display?
<Mmm, yes... careful maintenance, good husbandry, the use of purposeful cleaners, bolstered nutrition...>
I have never had any disease in my display and the new Regal is my biggest risk.
Sorry for the long post.
Thanks again
<Thank you for writing, sharing. Bob Fenner>

Freshwater Dip gone wrong  - 04/16/06
Hi Crew,
<Hi there, Leslie here with you today!>
After much planning and preparation I finally bought my first 2 fish today (a maroon clown and a royal Gramma). My quarantine tank was ready and my plan was to first do a freshwater dip with Methylene Blue before putting them in the quarantine tank. I am sad to say that I think I’ve killed both fish in the dipping process.
<Oh my, what a bummer.  I am so sorry to hear that.>
I treated the tap water, adjusted the temperature and added the Methylene Blue, but when I added the fish to the dip, it took about 30 seconds and both fish were lying on their side without moving. I immediately removed them and placed them in the quarantine tank.
<Perfect, well done.>
It’s been a couple of hours now and they both seem a bit better, but I don’t know if they are going to survive. Wizards 4 th rule – the greatest harm can be done with the best intentions… I feel like an animal abuser at the moment.
<Awwww  I’m so sorry. You had no way of knowing that they would not tolerate the dip. I can certainly empathize.>
Afterwards I realized that in all the excitement I never checked the pH of the freshwater before dipping them. I’ve done a lot of reading on your site and “pH-shock” is the best explanation I could find.
<I think you are right on.  pH shock often manifests with that side laying posture.>
I don’t know how quickly pH-shock can kill a fish, but something went very wrong very quickly.
< I have seen fish respond as yours and go on to do very well. If they were in good health to begin with they may just need some time to re adjust. They are both hearty species.>
Unless it was something totally different, like a lack of oxygen or something.
<I don’t think so. pH shock sounds like the most likely culprit.>
Any ideas?
< No additional ideas.>
This was my first attempt at a freshwater dip, so just one question – is buffering a freshwater dip simply a matter of adding some “baking soda” until the pH is at an acceptable level?
<Yup>
Other than that, (if I for example use RO water), it is simply a case of getting it to the correct temperature and adding the Methylene Blue, right?
<Nope. The pH of RO water has to be adjusted as well.>
Can’t believe I messed this up. Chris
<Please do not be to hard on yourself. You are not the first and will not be the last person who has forgotten to adjust the pH of a FW dip.  We have all made our fair share of mistakes. We are human and as such not perfect. Mistakes happen and we hopefully learn from them. Best of luck with your new fish, Leslie>

Freshwater Dip gone wrong, continued  - 04/16/06
Hi Leslie,
<Hi there again!>
Thanks a lot for the reply. I feel better now.
<You’re welcome. Glad I could help.>
I failed miserably on my first attempt at a marine tank a couple of years ago and although I have done tons more planning and research on
this new attempt I still can’t help feeling a bit paranoid. Promised myself I will never put anything in my tank without proper quarantine
and research on the animal.. and there I go buying a Maroon clown on impulse today without knowing anything about it. I hope it wasn't a bad
choice (if I haven’t killed it already).
<There you go beating yourself up again. I had to cut my LFS time down to the bare minimum and for absolute necessity only. I only go in with blinders on now because the temptation is just to great. In my case rescuing seahorses was my great downfall. No worries the Maroon Clown is a fine choice.>
I started seeing some brown patches on my live rock in the main tank and worried a bit about a diatom outbreak, but when I looked more closely I
noticed that the brown stuff already seems to be giving way to all sorts of green and red stuff, so hopefully that's a good sign for this new setup of mine.
That's enough rambling from me for one day. Enjoy the rest of your Easter and thanks for the kind words. Chris.
<Enjoy the rest of your Easter as well and you're very welcome, Leslie>

New fish manager, questions re: freshwater dip    4/4/06
Hello. I wanted to thank you guys on a great job, as I visit your site at least once or twice a day.
<More than me!>
I've recently come to manage the fish department in a full-line pet store, and had some questions. The last guy didn't think much of skimmers and most other forms of filtration, and I can't exactly go crazy with upgrading everything just yet,
<Take your time... plan... purchase, install incrementally...>
but so far I have managed to hook up a skimmer to our largest of 3 saltwater systems.
<Shocking eh?>
I've also taken to dripping the fish over the course of about 3-4 hours (in contrast to the previous float and drop technique used by the last manager). I have also begun using a freshwater methylene blue dip. Works absolute wonders (and thanks to you guys here at WWM for that one too!)
<Is of tremendous use>
This is my first question. I get in marine fish on average 3 times a week. And it really does become a hassle to make up dip water that often. How effective would it be to set up, say, a twenty gallon long aquarium with a small pump, heater, and a good mechanical aerator,
and using net breeders to dip several fish at once, leaving this tank setup for extended periods of time?
<Best to re-make each shipment... Though a stock solution of dip itself can be made, stored>
I can't really seem to find anything on permanent dip tanks. Perhaps because it's generally not a good idea for some reason?
<Loss of concentration, possibility of pest, pathogen transfer>
I now travel to our wholesaler to hand pick our fish, both fresh and marine, which vastly helps in attaining the best, healthy fish. But, as always, either I miss something on one of them, or one or two develop something after a couple days after transit. So, I've also set up one quarantine tank, with another to follow shortly.
<Wowzah! A big step...>
But for some reason, the nitrites WILL NOT go down, no matter what I do. Right now, I'm running Paraguard, but am thinking of switching to methylene blue. Is the medication stalling the biological filtration in the filter,
<Correct>
or am I perhaps not being patient enough. Nitrites have been off the scale for about a week now, and the tank has been set up around a month. Any suggestions other than patience?
<Frequent water changes, use of established, clean bio-media...>
I'd like to have this tank
running as soon as possible. Thanks again, and hopefully I won't have too many other questions!.
<Bring them on. No worries... been there, done that. Bob Fenner>

Freshwater dipping Zebrasoma flavescens = bad... RO water, no oxygen, worse by far    3/27/06
PLEASE STOP ADVISING PEOPLE TO FRESHWATER DIP ZEBRASOMA FLAVESCENS FOR ANY REASON!!
  These fish are very delicate
<Mmm, no... on a relative scale, quite hardy>
and I have now lost 2 to this process following the instructions on your website which I have found repeated in several threads to the "T" as I was trying to rid each one of the couple of black spot Turbellarians that they had.
<... I have literally done this with hundreds of thousands of this specimens... Am out in HI on the Big Island where the vast majority of Z. flavescens are collected, "talked" many of the trop. collectors over the years into this procedure (pH-adjusted FW dips... with aeration...) to eliminate Crypt, Amyloodinium, Paravortex... it works, is safe...>
  Each time the fish was placed into a well established QT tank for a week and each were doing fantastic eating sea veggies like there was no tomorrow.  I was planning on 4 weeks in the QT.  After the 6 min.s in the temp and pH adjusted bath using RO water,
<... RO water has no oxygen....>
the fish was dead.  This happened to 2 different fish at different times from different dealers and both fish were fantastic specimens.  The only reason I dipped is because your website said to do this to rid the fish of black spot which I did not want to introduce into my main.  
<No oxygen>
I also don't want to hear that the fish would have died anyways because observing each for a week beforehand in the QT tells me this is absolute rubbish regarding these two specimens.  Each died as a direct result of the bath.  Having wasted weeks of my time and effort and $70 of my money caring for these fish and to have them die in minutes following instructions on this website LEAVES ME EXTREMELY ANGRY!!!  I have found other post regarding this species from people who have had the same experience but the dip is still recommended.  Being such water quality bioassays, advising people to dip willy-nilly is ridiculous and reckless.  I should have stuck with my gut and allowed the fish to rid themselves of the 2 spots each had with quality water and food but I thought I could trust this site.
<No oxygen... try holding your breath for six minutes and write me back. Bob Fenner>

Methylene blue  - 1/30/2006
Mr. Bob Fenner
I understand that you recommend a freshwater dip with Meth. blue before the qt. You also mention the practice of the use of Meth. blue, with 1/5 of the dip dosage, during 2 or 3 days, in the quarantine. The question is if this a normal/ prophylactic procedure or instead, an exceptional one ?
<Mmm, more normal than exceptional. This is to say, it/both are "standard operating procedures" in business, with many hobbyists>
I have experienced in the last 2 months a lot of fish losses (5) in qt with just the arrival dip. After 8 or 10 days in the qt they become infected or infested and die. So I think that would be good if the use of a prophylactic product during the quarantine could weak the parasite resistance more than the fish's. Is Meth. Blue the right choice for this?
<Is a very safe, useful material>
Other product ? Formalin? H2O2 ?
<Formalin is too toxic, dangerous, peroxides too transient for most uses>
When treating in the qt and performing an water change the new added water must have the same remedy concentration ?
<Best to try keep these about the same, yes>
Thank you very much for your help
Flávio
<You're welcome. Bob Fenner>

Bobbing for ich... important, interesting methods for avoiding, treating external parasitic (mostly) complaints of marine fishes  - 01/12/2006
Hello,
<Hi there>
Could you help clear something up.  Will a freshwater bath on a marine fish destroy some of the encysted parasites of ich or velvet?
<Often so, yes... this is posted... on WWM...>
  I get conflicting information on this.  At the store I work at, we do keep copper in the water for parasite control in our marine section.
<Very common practice in the trade>
So when the parasite drops off and the swarmers bust out they will shrivel up and die.
<That is the hope>
But if I could give the fish some relief from the load of parasites it currently has on it, I would like to do that.
<You are wise here... my urgings for prophylactic dips in the industry... from collectors forward, have been emphatic and constant going on three decades... Please see WWM re "Guerilla Acclimation"...>
Giving the fish a pH adjusted temperature adjusted freshwater bath when it obviously has something, that sounds like good advice.
<We are confluent in this opinion>
We know a freshwater bath will kill or reduce a lot of other pathogens that could be hitching a ride on the fish, from flukes to Brooklynellosis.  But besides killing all the other stuff that might be in the gills on a fish that's showing spots, Will it actually help to reduce the load of marine ich or velvet?
<Oh yes. Done correctly, they are virtually eliminated, excluded with such practice>
Or am I only giving a bath to kill whatever else might be on the animal and waiting until the encysted parasites drop off?
<If your systems are "specific pathogen free", you will not have such pathogens to reinfect/fest them...> |
I had the idea that the freshwater bath might take off some of the fishes slime coat and expose the parasite to the killing freshwater.  Or is that not the case?
<Yes... with most fish species, in good initial health, such exposure results in more slime production temporarily>
In a related idea of giving a saltwater bath to a fresh water fish.   Sometimes I will see a fish arrive covered so heavily with ich (freshwater) that I go 'man, that's horrible'.  I don't think the animal will survive to where those encysted parasites drop off to be killed by the medication that's in the water.  So how about a salt bath.
<Can be utilized with good result with many types/groups of fishes... not all. One must be attentive (there while doing this, closely observing), using aeration... removing the fishes if/when show too much stress>
I've read a few authors suggesting a 1% or 3% bath, in that it would take off the fishes slime coat
exposing the parasites from their slime coat fortress to be immediately destroyed, and it encourages the fish regenerate a new slime coat more aggressively.
<Yes, ideally>
The bulk of the question affects how I handle a fish that I see is 'covered'   Can I do something now to help it get some of those nasties off it and
medicate.  Or are my hands tied and I medicate, wait, and hope it survives until they fall off.
<Can do much... the best, most logical place is in transition, during handling, placement on arrival... during acclimation... next, by way of quarantine procedures... Of consequence, careful species and individual selection/sources, and appropriate, stable environmental, nutritional inputs>
In a semi-related note I was browsing through the posts on marine velvet and a reply from a person Anthony from a post called "Oodinium".  He mentioned a preference of formalin over copper, in that copper would not penetrate deeply into the flesh to kill the parasite.  I thought that even the powerful formalin would still run into that same problem.  The parasite is protected by its slime coat fortress, that no medication could penetrate into it.
<Mmm, well... metal and formalin containing material does produce such irritation that much of the slime coat of fish hosts is sloughed off, with not-too-deeply embedded parasite fauna going with it...>
  You just wait until it falls off divides and kills the free swimming state.
<Mmm, better to remove the stages from the host, kill them in the process if possible, and poison them in off-host stages as well. Bob Fenner>
Thank you for time,
Jonathan

Freshwater dip for inverts 11/16/05
Hi WWM, I have a few questions regarding freshwater dips for prevention. A number of people I have asked think using a freshwater dip for invertebrates is detrimental to their health. What do you think? 
<Yikes!!! Not only detrimental, but most likely lethal! Also, the types of parasites that can be effectively removed by FW dips generally don't infect inverts.>
Also, I prepared 4 gallons of dip for my first tank additions (some crabs); how long should I keep it for reuse? Thanks for any advice! Jason 
<If you use an airstone or a powerhead to prevent the water from stagnating, it should be good for a couple of weeks (just be sure to double check the pH and temp!). Otherwise, I would discard it in a few days. Best Regards, AdamC.>

Need advice please (Restocking after Amyloodinium outbreak) 10-09-05
Hi Bob,
<<Hello, TravisM here.>>
I hope you can help me as reading through the many entries on the website has not really helped me make a decision(s) I need to make.
<<I will do my best.>>
I lost half my fish in my FOWLR tank to Amyloodinium many months ago, ( newbie idiot mistake of not quarantining / not recognizing symptoms / using useless med ( Kent RXP, should be called RIP ! ) Remaining fish were hardy and were saved by a malachite green / formalin product called Cuprazin. My main tank has been parasite free now for many months with all fish healthy. My number one priority is to keep it that way.
<<Good choice of number one priority.>>
I have learned an awful lot.
<<That is the key to this hobby, learn from your mistakes and move forward.>>
I have my quarantine tank set up and matured, with a sunburst anthias and an orangeback fairy wrasse in there from 2 days ago. Both look very healthy, feeding well, they will be there for a month.
Now here come the questions:
1. With the safety of my main tank being the overriding concern, should I preventatively medicate these two fish even though they appear healthy?
<<Absolutely not. Never blindly medicate. I would suggest purchasing some medications to have on hand, but only use them when you have a positive ID on the parasite/disease.>>
2. If the answer is yes I read somewhere that this anthias is sensitive to copper (Scott Michael article on them I think?) Would that rule out malachite, or just copper sulphate products?
<< Answer was a big NO. I would use hyposalinity and many other procedures before copper.>>
3. I know dips/baths are recommended also. I have read that wrasse react badly to freshwater baths. Would a tank water dip with either formalin, or methyl blue, be effective ( I have both ) and if so which would you use? Duration?
<< I may get flogged for this response, but I suggest you skip the dips. Dips done incorrectly can be very traumatic to you and your new fish. Acclimate them to your QT tank and follow proper QT procedures and you will be much further ahead than you will be by needlessly stressing your new fish friends. Here again proper parasite/disease ID leads to proper medication identification to use during a dip.>>
Thanks in advance for your help,
<<Happy to help.>>
Toby Joyce
<<TravisM>> 

Definitive dip/bath for varieties of fish 10/10/05
Salutations,
<And you>
I am in the process of stocking my 60 liter tank (in actuality, it's closer to 47 liters or 13 gallons) and was wondering what fish do better with dips as opposed to baths. Every fish will spend a luxurious 3-4 weeks in QT before arriving to their final destination, but which fish would get a dip and which would take a bath? Is there a list on the web (or maybe here that I carelessly skipped) that says which fish gets what and for how long?
<Mmm, not as far as I'm aware>
For example, would you give a bi-color Dottyback a freshwater bath with Methylene blue? What would be the minimum time?
<A few minutes>
(sources say anything less than 3 minutes is worthless). I understand if they are thrashing about, get them out...but what if they lay down? Thanks again for the wonderful resource!
Dana
<Smaller fishes, less time, scale-less fishes, less time, fishes that live in close association with invertebrates, less time. There are some notes under the heading "acclimation" by group, per articles by me on WWM, but the real "bottom line" here is watching your livestock while they are dipped/bathed, and hoisting them out if/when they appear overly distressed. Bob Fenner> 

Freshwater Dips with Methylene Blue  9/17/05
I’ve been able to use Bob Fenner’s method of freshwater dips with the addition of Methylene Blue very successfully in my first marine fish only tank of 110 gallons. The only problem I’ve had is monitoring the progress or lack thereof of the fish I place in the dip. The solution is typically a dark navy blue color and unless the fish starts trashing about near the surface of my gallon bucket I have no idea on how it is tolerating the procedure. Any suggestions on how a fish can be better monitored during the emersion process in this opaque dip so that signs of distress can be rapidly identified? I had tried just leaving the fish in a large net while in the dip bucket but even then I often have to lift it out of the dip solution to check on it’s status and I feel that this just adds to the trauma of the process for the animal. I know this most sound like a silly question but any suggestions would be really appreciated. Thank you.
John Ragone
<Mmm, I would just use somewhat less Methylene Blue... enough to still see the fish/es while dipping/bathing. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Why did my new arrival die? Gobies, QT, Dipping... 8/11/05
Hello Crew,
<Thomas>
I have a question about a Yashia Goby that died about 28 hours after it arrived by FedEx yesterday.  It had been sent FedEx Standard Overnight, and had been in transit approximately 24 hours before it arrived here.
I gave the fish a very slow acclimation over about 3 hours using a drip method.  Before putting it into the quarantine tank, I prepared a dip of RO/DI water, dosed with baking soda to a pH of about 8.2 (to match quarantine tank),
<And shipping water?>
and dosed with 2-3 drops of Methylene blue in perhaps a quart of this water.
<Sounds good>
When placed in the dip, the fish went ballistic -- darted around, rolled over on it's back -- a terrible scene.  It may have been in that dip for 2 seconds before I removed it to a rinse of water from the quarantine tank.  Then, after a minute or so, I put it into the quarantine tank.  This was last night about 8 PM.
Since then, it basically hid in the bottom of the tank behind PVC pipe.  It appeared to be breathing hard, when I could briefly see it.  Other than that, there were no obvious symptoms, except a sunken belly, which is very apparent now that it is dead and I can examine it closely.
Quarantine tank parameters are
specific gravity: 1.025
pH: 8.1
ammonia: 0
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 20 ppm
temp: 78 deg.
Question is this: Did my dip kill this fish?
<Likely did add stress... but this, most small gobies ship poorly... many do die soon after arrival... from point to point... and if you read through WWM, writings by myself, you will find I am not a fan of dipping many such fish groups, or even quarantining them per se>
If not, how should I think about this event.  It is only the second time I've ordered fish by FedEx.  The first time, I ordered tank-raised clown fishes that I acclimated but did not dip -- these fish were fine and are still happy 18 months later.
<Much hardier... and accustomed to novel, stressful inputs>
Thanks,
Tom
<Bob Fenner>

Flipping About Dipping (FW Dip Questions) 8/6/05
After reading over the site for a couple of hours I still have a couple of questions regarding a dip for my Yellow Tang that has recently (within the past 18 hrs or so) been afflicted with Turbellaria. My concern is the water, I have read tap water (de-chlored, ph checked, a degree or two above his current saltwater temp, with the addition of Methylene blue...or do I use RO/DI?
I read another issue where all 4 of the guys tangs died using RO/DI. Should I just use tap water?
<I have always used buffered RO/DI water for my freshwater dips...Essentially, the same water that I use for mixing my replacement saltwater, minus the salt. There is really no great magic to it, IMO. Freshwater dips are a potentially traumatic experience for marine fishes, no doubt about it. However, if executed carefully and observed keenly, there should be no problems. In all of the years that I have been utilizing FW dips, I have only lost one fish, and that was due to my own carelessness (the fish jumped out of the dip bucket when I wasn't paying attention). A properly executed dip will create no lasting negative effects to otherwise healthy fishes. Many potentially problematic parasites and protozoa don't tolerate the dip process as well as the fishes, hence their effectiveness.>
This is the only confusing thing for me.
<Just read up on dips in our articles section on the WWM site for all of the details.>
I do plan to quarantine him after using water from his "old tank" should I just mix up fresh salt water for the quarantine instead.
<Personally, I'd use water from the existing tank. The process is traumatic enough without the unnecessary extra stress caused by brand new water after the dip, IMO>
Also, as far as aerating the dipping water??? Is this necessary with tap water w/ Methylene blue.
<You could, but I never have. The fish will only be in the dip for a matter of minutes.>
Thanks in Advance...your site is sooooo helpful.
Amy
<My pleasure, Amy! Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Quarantine and Dipping of Acropora 7/14/05
Hi,
I have read recommendations to dip all new Acroporas in ReefDip, FlatwormExit and  Lugol's (I presume separately?).
<...>
  We have several frags in quarantine for 4 weeks prior to entry into the tank (for ich as well as other parasites).  During that time, I have examined them every few days with a magnifying glass and don't see any bugs at all (and the color looks very good).  A few of the frags have harmless commensal crabs (smooth shells).  I hate to hurt the crabs by doing a dip and don't want to add unnecessary stress to the corals.  If examined regularly for 4 weeks and nothing looks out of the ordinary, are the dips still necessary or could the corals be pronounced "bug free?"  
Thanks in advance!
- Doug  
<I would not use any of these or other "dips" with quarantined corals unless I observed trouble that warranted such. Bob Fenner>

Re: Quarantine and Dipping of Acropora 7/14/05
That is what I thought.  I just wanted to make sure that Redbugs, etc. didn't have some sort of long cycle where they might lay in wait more than the 4 weeks.
<Nah! You'd see them by then>
Thank You!
<Welcome. Bob Fenner, soon to have a contract on him for debunking chemical products in the trade/hobby>

DTHP use, marine, dips 7/7/05
Hello, Crew,
It's me, dum-dum, again.
Okay, so I was reading about DTHP for the treatment of various and sundry parasites and other general nastiness.
Recalling what I'd read already about QT, freshwater dips, Methylene blue, and so forth, I was wondering if anyone had ever established a protocol of a DTHP dip as a precautionary step prior to introducing species to the main tank. Perhaps during the last four or so days of QT?
<Some wholesale outfits have used this, other organophosphates to rid fishes of "worms" and crustacean fauna (parasitic and otherwise) en-route... I would not, do not encourage home-hobbyists to do this. Too much likelihood of damage, toxicity to the livestock and themselves. Bob Fenner>
Joe Kraska

Naso et al. not for reef tanks? Merits of dips/baths 6/31/05
Matt from Critter Cabana in Newberg here,
We have a customer who was told by another local fish store that his Naso tang and a couple other fish needed to be pulled out of his reef tank because water parameters were very unstable in a reef tank due to the necessary chemical and mineral supplements in a reef system.
<Huh?>
   This seemed odd to me, but it came from the person who most people in the Portland area consider the local authority on fish health issues, just curious if you knew where he was coming from on this.  
<Wacky in my book/s>
Another strange recommendation,
I know that most if not all of the wet web crew highly recommends dips as preventative disease control and acclimation into the quarantine system, and it has been the only success we have had with ich control here at the store.  Anyway, we won't offer guarantees for customers unless they use our recommended Fw dip acclimation.  Well, the other local stores in the area have caught wind of this policy and are telling our customers basically that we are nuts and that no respectable marine aquarist would ever perform such an activity.
<Mmm, I disagree... dips/baths were S.O.P. in our retail stores... are so at the best wholesalers on the planet (Quality Marine in Los Angeles, Tropical Marine Centre in the UK), collectors...>
  Are your thoughts pretty strong on this issue as in its hands down the best way to acclimate?  Is the dip some sort of rogue method?  Or is it a professional standard?  
<Is posted on WWM... hobbyist to commercial>
I'm hoping to share this email with customers to provide a simple authoritative answer on some long standing arguments.  
Matt
<Glad to share my opinions, experiences... first and other hand. Bob Fenner>

Re: Regal tang acting weird... dipping protocols
Hello,
<Hi again>
Again thanks for the advice, and since you thought my questions were good I thought I would ask a couple more about the freshwater dip for the Blue Regal/Hippo tang coming out of copper QT... hope that's ok!!!
<Sure>
I have read the article on WWM and the FAQs so I more or less just wanted to confirm I have digested and fully understood the procedure before I go ahead. I would hate to think I might cause her more harm than good in doing something wrong and would appreciate some reassurance I have things right, and if I don't, someone to set me straight:
<Will try>
Since she is not visibly suffering from Ick now after the treatment, would it make sense not to include medication in the bath such as Methylene Blue? Or would it be advisable to include this in the bath for good measure?
<Mmm, well, amongst the stockpile of chemicals that can/could be added to such dips/baths, Methylene Blue is exceedingly non-toxic, non-stressful>
If I should use Methylene Blue should I add this to the bath before checking PH parameters or will this not affect the PH?
<Will not practically effect pH... though with aeration, can help to sustain high, steady pH>
If there's no need to use it am I literally just preparing temp and PH adjusted fresh water to put her in?
<Yes>
The procedure: Using tap water treated with a water conditioner/de-chlorinator in a bucket, match the temperature and PH (using baking soda to increase) to the water in the QT tank that she's currently in. Use a net to lift her out of the QT tank and then do I release her into the bucket of premixed bath or do I keep her in the actual net for the duration of the 5-10 min.s, monitoring her reaction and pulling her out if she thrashes about or tries to jump out?
<Better to release large, active fishes in baths... re-net to remove>
Then do I net her out (or simply lift her out if she remains in net) drain, and then transfer her straight to the main system?
<Yes>
In terms of removing copper and sterilizing QT tank (that has been exposed to Ick), do I do water changes and run Carbon or CupriSorb in filter until copper test kit reads zero, then empty, soak tank and PVC for 1-2 hours in non-scented household bleach, then rinse thoroughly twice with 4 x dose of de chlorinated tap water and allow to air dry? Should I run the bleach solution through the hang on filter and rinse the same as for the tank, then return filter media to main system to prepare it for possible future hospital/QT purposes?
<I would add the bleach (will complex any copper as cupric chloride), let circulate for half an hour or so, dump, rinse... re-fill>
I won't do anything until I'm sure I have this right. She was a lot calmer last night than she has been so I'm not panicked about taking her out of the QT tank as soon as possible. Many thanks for your advice and patience with me!
Hillary.
<A pleasure to share, help. Bob Fenner>

Dipped and confused
Good morning, 
<Good evening, Mark>
I'm a bit confused on the dip process. Do I use freshwater or system water? It was my impression that you would need the osmotic difference to help remove potential pathogens therefore no salt added. I will be using Methylene blue as my additive. 
<Mark, read here. Somewhere in the middle lies your info. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichart2mar.htm James (Salty Dog)> 

Blue Tang and Freshwater Dip
Hello all,
I just fresh water dipped our small pacific blue after noticing some white spots.  No other signs of Ich in the tank and the fish was in our 29 gal QT for at least 6 weeks.  I didn't want to break out the hospital tank just yet, so I did a freshwater dip for 5 minutes.  After the dip the tang has laid on the bottom of the display tank for over an hour now, breathing hard.
I turned the lights out to avoid more stress.  What went wrong?  Is this fish going to make it?
Its been eating well with no real signs of trouble other than the white spots this morning and a little scratching to go with it.  I'm really sick about this.
Great website
Thanks for any input/wisdom you may have.
Mark
>>>Hello Mark,
Sorry to hear of your troubles.
While I could type quite a long email about the life cycle of C. irritans, I suggest you do a search on it's life cycle and become familiar with the different stages - Trophont, tomont, tomite, etc. You will then see the folly of doing a freshwater dip once cysts are already present on the fish.
In all likelihood, you Ph shocked the fish, although not being there I can't rule out temperature factors as well. Moreover, these fish are very sensitive as it is, one to be avoided to a large degree in my opinion, and certainly one of the last fish that is going to suffer a freshwater dip. Some fish on the other hand don't flinch at a freshwater dip. I even left a Koran angel in a freshwater tank for 20 minutes one time on accident and it was no worse for wear. The fish you have in your possession unfortunately does not fall into this category.
Going forward, use hyposalinity or a commercial treatment, and forget freshwater dips, especially on very delicate fish that are already in danger of not making it without this extra trauma.
Cheers
Jim<<<

Re: A Pacific Blue that didn't appreciate an FW dip
Thanks for the reply, unfortunately I murdered an otherwise healthy fish. I read many of the accounts on the site and then also talked with a trusted fellow at the LFS. There are many accounts on the site about FW dipping this species.  All indications were that a Freshwater dip would be the least aggressive course of action.
<Generally yes>
The dip temp. was within a degree or two and not lower than the tank.  The pH of our tap water (municipal well water) is such that I don't have to raise it, if anything it's on the high side.
<... as high as saltwater... in the low 8's?>
I keep a pretty close eye on my fish tanks and since a few spots developed literally overnight, and also knowing that they are susceptible I wanted to try to get it under control before I had a full blown outbreak in my main tank.  
<Mmm, if the fish/es are in a main tank, and "spots" show up... the tank is infested...>
Admittedly I have not FW dipped anything before, I prefer the QT.
however, the FAQ's led me to believe I should be dipping as a prophylactic and when the LFS suggested it as treatment,
<Mmm, much to state/relate here... preventative dips are useful in receiving, moving livestock... extended baths/dips can be advantageous in some treatment strategies>
I thought, what could it hurt, I'll give it a try.  I was very apprehensive about doing it and really talked myself into it.  Now I'm sick about it.  I'll not be doing it again anytime soon.
I do at some elementary level understand that the parasite has a cycle and the way to beat it is to interrupt that cycle by; speeding it up with increased temp., vacuuming the substrate to try and catch some of the swimmers, lowering the salinity (hyposalinity). Etc.....
<All the above are so... but much better to avoid introduction of such pathogens, their vectors altogether>
Since the fish was showing absolutely no signs of distress I didn't want to go into full blown panic mode, rip the tank a part setup the Hospital tank etc..... I don't remember the last time I got Ich in a FW tank and now 6 months into the SW experience all heck is breaking loose.  I've been diligent with my water changes, 20-25% every 2 weeks. No troubles with Ammonia, Nitrite since initial cycle.  I'm testing every two weeks for Nitrate before my water changes and its never been a problem.  I know that most diseases are due to environmental problems, but really I don't know what it would be.
<The "other" components. Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisease.htm>
Ironically, I have been using the cheap plastic Hydrometer (I know don't say it) and it showed the s.g. to be in the 1.023 1.024 range.  I just bought a glass tube laboratory type and it measures the s.g at more like 1.018 to 1.019.  I expected the reading to be off a bit, but not that much.  It's odd that my salinity is low and yet I still got what I suspected to be Ich.
<Mmm, not that odd... spg/density has to be much lower to exclude most all such problems>
No other fish are showing any signs.  There are only 3 fish in the tank, 2 yellow damsels, a coral beauty.  Should I pull them and treat for Ich or let it ride?
<I would be treating all in isolation... letting the infested tank go fallow...>
Again great web site, I guess I still have much more reading to do.
Mark  
<Sorry to realize your troubles Mark, and appreciative of your efforts at understanding, having success here. Please do read here as well: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasittksfaqs.htm
and in turn the above/linked files where you lead yourself. You will make it past these "different than freshwater" parasite problems and hopefully be "specific pathogen free" soon. Bob Fenner>

Re: A Pacific Blue that didn't appreciate an FW dip
Thanks again for responding.  I'm learning, bear with me.  FW was much more care-free than this, but the fish are way cooler...
Yes the pH of our tap water is in the high 8's, I've tested it periodically over the last 8 years living here and it's always on the order of 8.6 to 8.8.  My Africans loved it.
<I'll bet>
I don't think I pH or temp shocked the fish.  I just think I left it in too long. (that didn't sound too good)
<Happens>
I'll setup the Hospital tank and the first sign I see of hiding, scratching, etc I'll move them over, treat them, and let the main tank go fallow.  30 days min. right?
<Yes>
So far two days later and no other signs of ich have surfaced.
<... May not have been ich/crypt>
I did raise the temp and I'm slowly getting it up over 80.  I forgot to mention the Star I have.  It's a small Purple "Linckia" or actually I've learned by reading, Tamaria stria.
<Yes>
Should I do anything special for it.  From what I've read they are not susceptible, can't transmit it, and will be ok in the tank during the fallow period.  Is this correct?
<Correct>
Thanks again,  I'll keep trying.
Mark  
<Ah, good. Bob Fenner>

Marine dip & bath and chemical uses therewith, and nitrates
Dear Bob,
<Howdy>
I have been marine fish ( mainly angels and tangs ) hobbyist for almost a year now.
<Congrats>
Having read your article dips/baths and acclimating livestock; guerilla techniques, plus faq, confusion still arise, thus, question need to be address to clarify.
<Okay>
You mentioned fresh water dip ( 5 to 10 minutes ) most effective. Thus, one hour bath with extra medication (malachite & erythromycin) only as an alternative?
<Mmm, this is a bit long for almost all marine species>
Since f