Methylene Blue - Is it safe for a QT tank?  9/27/08
Greetings WWM Crew,
<Mike>
After reading the articles and FAQs on Methylene blue (MB), I have a rather simple question:
Is MB safe to use in a SW QT tank?
<Very>
I have read conflicting information. The CMA and this website only mention its use in a FW dip, but I have read accounts of is being used when shipping fish. Other on-line resources state that MB is to be used in FW only.
<It's been a long time since I've seen Methylene Blue used in shipping marines... some folks, businesses do use it in freshwater applications... in both to reduce light penetration (calm the animals before being boxed) and improve DO>
I have a 55g QT tank, I use PVC piping to provide a shelter for the fish, and use about 0.25" of regular "play sand" for a substrate (It is disposable after QT is finished) 10 - 25% water changes are done daily. I use a canister filter for water filtration\movement, and a sponge filter for biological (kept in the sump between uses.)
I always give new acquisitions a FW dip with MB, followed by hypo-salinity (1.015 - 1.017) in the QT tank, slowly building it up to 1.025 near the end for the QT period.
I would like to add MB to the QT tank at least during the first few days, Partially for its mild antiseptic\oxygen carrying properties, and secondly because I have noticed that new fish settle down and adapt better if the water is "darker".
<Worth trying. I don't think there is much chance of any serious downside/s here>
Thank You,
Mike
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Re: Acclimation procedure  3/30/08
Hey Crew,
I know that I, as well as many other people, rely on you guys for help. You supply us with a wealth of info and from time to time are given some thanks. I just wanted to drop a note to say you guys are providing a great service for us fish/reef geeks. I have read and followed many of your recommendations, (including Bob F), and must thank you under separate cover. A recent example that demonstrates my gratitude is Bob's recommendation regarding acclimation procedures. I have utilized blue meth combined with aqua nova on the acclimation of all of my new fish additions and thankfully have had no problems since. Just wanted to thank you guys for the education and the great service you are providing. As always I look forward to future correspondence.
Frank
<Thank you Frank... for taking the time, making the effort. Your kind words are encouraging. BobF>

Methylene Blue 03/04/2008
Good afternoon Crew!
Just a quick question. I purchased a Pygmy Angel and Flame Hawkfish over the weekend and plan on picking up this week and placing them in my QT after a fresh water/Methylene blue dip. Is the Methylene blue safe for the Dwarf Angel?
<Yes. Very safe for all>
I vaguely remember reading on your site that Methylene blue is not safe for all fish, but could not remember and could not find if this included the Dwarf Angel. Thanks as always!
<Please read here re: http://wetwebmedia.com/methblueart.htm
and the linked FAQs file above. Bob Fenner>

Re: sick clownfish? Now, Dips/Baths...   2/21/08
Crew,
This really isn't an area have I gathered much experience in, having my LFS/wholesaler QT and treat for me before I collect - feeling slightly inadequate, can I ask one of you guys with the relevant experience field?
Mike I, WWM
<Okay. RMF responding>
Mike,
I read your recommended links. I am a little confused. In using Methylene Blue do you utilize fresh RODI water, (since the article does say fresh water but later lists "new or system water")?
<For dips? New, treated water... RO/DI is fine if aerated... otherwise has no oxygen...>
{I guess you could mean net of salt}. What is the prescribed dosing, (Meth vs. gal of RODI)?
<Just "very blue"... the stock concentrations vary... But/and Methylene Blue is very safe to use at high dosage>
"about ten mils of this solution used per approx one gallon of dip" does this mean 10 milliliters?
<Mmm, maybe... again, given commercial concentrations vary... Just so blue you can't easily see the bottom of the container...>
The article also mentions that you could purchase pre-made, where might one find this?
<Pre-made what?>
Lastly, do you recommend dipping as part of the acclimation process.
<I do... commercially... for home hobbyists, buying local stock... quarantining ahead... or in transit, such dips/baths are a judgment call...>
In other words when you bring a new fish home from the LFS you would dip first in a Meth solution that is the same temp and ph of your main display or would you first acclimate the fish by lets say the drip method for a couple of hours.
<Either first, enroute to quarantine, and/or on the way from there to main/display tanks>
This way the ph and water temp of the shipping bag is close or equal to your display water and then dip in the solution?
<Mmm, very important to respond to this clearly, completely: Best to measure said pH, temperature... IF the pH is much different (esp. higher in your system than the shipping water) OR there is any discernible free ammonia in the shipping water, best to match the pH or have it slightly lower (this is mainly a commercial, importer concern... or with folks moving, buying aquatic life that is/has been bagged for hours duration... And "rinse out" the mixed shipping/transit water, with that of the system pH over time... Covered under "Guerilla Acclimation Techniques" on WWM>
{2 step process/acclimation followed by dipping}. Don't you feel that the fish is stressed moving from the LFS to the shipping bag to the acclimation procedure then to dip and QT?
<Yes>
Only to be moved at a later date into the main display. Can the fish survive all of this?
<Oh yes... and you can be spared (along with other livestock) the troubles of bringing in pests and parasites...>
I understand that if we don't take precautions then we put the entire main display tank at risk & of course the fish if it has any disease. But I am just wondering if all these procedures adds to the stress of the animal and in and of itself can increase mortality rates.
<Is a concern... as you well voice/state... Hence my comment re "judgment calls"... Not all livestock can stand, nor benefits from such dipping/bathing... IF the animals are too weak, best to accelerate their placement (in quarantine), allow to "harden" (rest up)... and consider such prophylactic measures on moving further>
Thanks for all the info,
I look forward to your reply,
Frank
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Re: Crypt. and starting over
Dear Mr. Fenner, thank you for your response to my last Email. I did review info on dips/ baths and Crypt in your book as well as on the website. After several bad decisions what I'm left with is multiple Crypt casualties and a fishless 60 gallon FO tank which has been treated with Cupramine. I plan at this time to let the tank go fallow. I have raised the temp to 85 degrees. Should I remove the copper with carbon at this time or let it ride until the end.
<Leave as is... it will "complex", be gone in a few days to weeks>
At this temp would four weeks be enough time rid the tank of Crypt cyst forms.
<... see WWM... the longer, the more sure>
Lastly, I believe my initial outbreak of ich began because of a freshwater (adjusted for temp and ph)/Methylene blue dip which was too short in duration, about one minute. Because the water turns so dark with the Methylene blue I feel I am unable to monitor the fish for agitation. Two quick questions then I'm done. First, if the fish is not jumping and breaking the surface can I wait five minutes before removing from the dip solution and adding to my QT.
<Better to not "blue" the water to such a degree... and watch for overly labored breathing...>
Last, can I leave the fish netted in a large net during the entire dip or dose this increase stress.
<Is fine to leave in a net... I and the fine folks I worked with at our stores did this for tens of thousands of specimens...>
It would certainly limit my stress. I'm determined to reestablish my tank and not leave the hobby and I have appreciated all of the valuable information on your site. Thank you, Mark Conley.
<Good luck, life to you Mark. Bob Fenner>

Pharmacy grade methylene blue  8/5/07
Hello Crew.
I'm looking to get some pharmacy grade Meth blue from my local pharmacist (who is also a customer) for dipping new arrivals.
He can get me in two types of it. One is 1% solution at $25/100ml. The other is crystals which run $60/25 grams.
My math in figuring out stuff like this is horrible, so my questions are:
Is the 1% solution proper for aquarium dosing as per the Guerrilla Acclimation?
<Yes>
Which of the two types would be better to use?
<A/the pre-mixed... But, I hasten to add that you don't need this grade... tech. will/would do... any as long as it's oxalate-free... And at a considerably cheaper price>
How much solution (water?) would I mix the crystals in to get the desired concentration?
<I would NOT make your own unless you knew enough to do the expanded notation to figure out the concentration from the MW... You will too likely contaminate the solution, mis-store it... Too much trouble for what it's worth... Buy an aqueous solution>
Thanks again for the great advice and site.
Regards,
James Foley
Thunder Bay Aquascapes
www.tbaquascapes.com
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Re: Pharmacy grade methylene blue 8/10/07
Thanks for the reply Bob.
But I now have another question.
I was looking for pharmacy grade because of this quote in the Guerrilla Acclimation article.
"Also thanks to Dr. Bob for urging the emphasizing that only "Pharmacy Grade" Methylene blue has the desired therapeutic properties."
<Ah... Dr. Bob Rofen of Kordon-Novalek>
So any Methylene blue will do as long as it's oxalate free?
Or would pharmacy grade have a more significant impact?
Regards,
James Foley
Thunder Bay Aquascapes
www.tbaquascapes.com
<Again, tech. or reagent grade w/ no oxalate will be fine. BobF>

Methylene Blue Question 7/10/07
Dear Crew,
<Andy>
I have started to use Kordon's Methylene Blue as an additive when I dip my new purchases before putting them in QT. I have noticed something very strange with the last two fishes I purchased--a Brown Combtooth Blenny and a Royal Gramma. I concocted a pH adjusted FW dip and then added the MB to the water until it was a deep royal blue (I did not add as much as instructed on the label for dips (5 tsp for 3 gallons), as I thought this seemed crazy). In any event, within about 1 minute both fish ended up looking like they had rigor mortis. Arched spines and gaping mouths--no movement. The first time this happened (blenny) I immediately removed him to a saltwater holding tank--he immediately revived like nothing happened, so I put him back in the dip for another 2 minutes--same thing. Same reaction with the Royal Gramma, but I decided to push the limit and keep him in the dip for 4 minutes. As with the blenny, as soon as he was placed in the QT, he revived. Both are doing well.
Is this normal with MB use?
<Andy, I'm not a fan of medicating fish that do not require it. The freshwater dip is enough shock to their system without creating more. I'd just stick with the freshwater dip, and/or better yet, quarantine the fish before adding to your main display tank. And yes, this could be normal depending on the fishes health at the time of treatment. James (Salty Dog) <<RMF is of decidedly a differing opinion... MB is extremely safe... and useful>>
Andy

Re: Methylene Blue Question 7/11/07
James,
I do quarantine, but I always give a FW dip before putting them in the QT. Not to be rude, but your response goes against everything in Bob's CMA and WWM. He heartily recommends pH adjusted freshwater dips with formalin or MB in transit between shipping and QT and between QT and display.
<Andy, I do realize this, but as I mentioned, it was my personal feeling/opinion. I've used freshwater dips on occasion years ago, but I've found that if the fish is weak/stressed to begin with, I've caused more harm than good. It can be difficult to identify stressed fish in a dealers tank, as stressed fish generally hide, and dealer displays offer little or no cover in which to take refuge. I'm not saying I'm against FW dips, but I prefer quarantine and dip only if I feel it is necessary. James (Salty Dog)>
Andy Bulgin

Re: Methylene Blue Question 7/11/07
Understood. Thanks for the follow-up. I didn't mean to come across as a jerk--just noting that CMA advocates for dips.
<Did not read you as a jerk, just a very observant person. Again, keep in mind that this is just my personal opinion. I'm not saying not to do the FW dips.>
I just thought it was odd that two separate fishes showed identical behavior when exposed to MB.
<Why wouldn't they, they are both exposed to the same medication. James (Salty Dog)>

Re: Methylene Blue Question 7/12/07
Because MB is touted as an extremely safe additive and, as such, I would think it should not have produced the response about which I asked. See http://www.wetwebmedia.com/methblueart.htm:
<You are misreading me. I didn't say MB is not safe, just stated my practices. MB is very safe, I just do not use it.>
"Tolerances/Dangers:
Other than the contraindications stated above (not to be placed in long term contact, not with live plants)... Methylene Blue is relatively non-toxic in a very wide range of concentrations. Often, aquarists are advised to "just place as much as turns the water very blue"...
Cloze:
This being stated, there is no harm in having Methylene Blue as an addition... or using it where it is best... as a dip/bath additive or in fungal prevention in freshwater fish culture. . .."
<In agreement, but I cannot give you an accurate answer as to why your fish reacted as such, might very well be from the water parameter change. Fish will have different tolerance levels of FW dips. When the fish appears stressed, I would remove it from the dip. James (Salty Dog)>
<<Highly likely there was "something else", other than the MB going on with this situation, water, fishes... RMF>>

Methylene Blue   7/2/07
Dear WWM Crew,
My Betta has been lethargic for a couple weeks with no outward signs of disease. I started treating him with daily doses of Pimafix and Melafix. I have also now noticed a couple of white specs on the side of his head. I am planning to give him a dip bath in Methylene Blue. Is it safe to do this while I am treating him with Pimafix and Melafix? Jean
<Hello Jean. I'm a bit Old School about Pimafix and Melafix. I think they're massively overrated, and have heard far too many stories of people using them *instead* of traditional medications and their fish still getting sick. While they may well be excellent general purpose antiseptics that help keep external wounds clean, I can't see how they can treat internal problems. Whitespot, for example, lives under the skin and is isolated from any medications, which is why most treatments kill the free-living "baby" whitespot parasites rather than the adults you see on the fish. So my recommendation would be to go ahead and add some standard Methylene Blue to the Betta aquarium to fix the whitespot (as this sounds like what you have). Stop with the Pimafix and Melafix while treating the aquarium (mixing medications is somewhat unpredictable). Once the whitespot is fixed, you can go back to doing your Pimafix and Melafix routine, though to be honest you should need either if the aquarium has a proper filter, good water quality, etc. Using Pimafix and Melafix as a standard addition to an aquarium is essentially admitting the water quality in the tank is so bad its filled with pathogenic bacteria. Think of it this way: it would be as if you let your house fill with garbage and filth, but sprayed it with antiseptic so it'd be safe to live in. If you just cleaned the house and installed plumbing, you wouldn't need the antiseptic! This is one reason I abhor those horrid "betta bowls" you see sometimes, with 1 gallon of water and no space for a filter. These force people to keep Bettas on what's basically a live-support level maintenance regime of constant water changes and additions of antiseptics and other supplements like salt. If people just treated Bettas properly and gave them a nice 5 gallon tank with an air-powered sponge filter, problem solved: nice, robust, easy to keep fish. The irony is any money saved on a betta bowl compared to a sensible aquarium is more than frittered away over the long term on all those silly additives! Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Methylene Blue – 07/03/07
Dear WWM,
Thanks for responding with so much detail to my previous e-mail. It's very much appreciated. Just one question; if I add Methylene Blue to my tank, won't that kill the good bacteria?
Thanks again,
Jeannie
<Provided you follow the instructions supplied with the medication, Methylene Blue is harmless to filter bacteria. Cheers, Neale.>

Ammonia Toxicity and methylene blue   5/9/07
Ok, I need the opinion of a marine biologist.
<Well, have labeled myself as a pet-fish ichthyologist at times... Friendly neighbourhood one at that>
Is there any benefit of using methylene blue in ammonia toxicity besides the fact that it will treat any concurrent nitrite poisoning and methaemaglobinaemia?
<IMO yes... slight anti-microbial effect, enhanced dissolved O2, darkening of the environment reducing stress...>
  If there is such a benefit then what is the mechanism of action in helping with ammonia toxicity?  
<Perhaps ancillary nitrification through higher DO alone>
We are having a discussion about this on another forum and I need an expert opinion.  I've done a search on the net and there are vague references to using methylene blue in ammonia poisoning.
Thanks,
Larry
<Perhaps a go at Hoar and Randall's tomes on Fish Physiology... Bob Fenner>

Freshwater dips with Methylene Blue 5/1/07
Hi there,  Whomever is polite enough to respond to my question.
<Hello>
I have been doing some reading, probably not as much as I should, but at least a fair attempt at it anyways, on ick. From what I've read Bob himself is not really an advocate of hyposalinity as a treatment. And I believe I understand his take on it being a result of inconsistency in the results. However freshwater dips seems to be a preferred method of treatment when used with Methylene Blue.  <FW dips are helpful but rarely a treatment in and of themselves.  The problem with hyposalinity is that it needs to be closely monitored.  If the SG gets too high it is ineffective and too low and it get too hard on the fish.  However with some fish that are very sensitive to copper it is a viable option.>
There seems to be those who advocate one or the other, but not both. <Some, not me however.>  And those who advocate hypo definitely will not budge towards FW dips, basically because the stress the dips can cause on the fish at hand. <Yes, but some people like to ignore the fact that anything but natural SG is stressful.> However it is my belief that hypo can also be stressful in some fish. And is a long 3 week duration of being in a specific gravity relatively close to freshwater as it is. The stress of the dip is mainly derived from the sudden change in specific gravity, correct? <Yep, and pH and temperature shock if not properly prepared.>   Methylene blue helps this stress out, correct? Wouldn't the dip be a shorter duration of stress?
<Yes, but a higher stress level, if a fish is very sick this shock can be fatal, but in reality only in fish that probably not have survived anyways.>
This may sound like a crazy idea, and tell me if it is. I am not really wanting to attempt this but just curious about possible methods of providing total elimination of the parasite from an infected fish. Because a single freshwater dip with Methylene blue will not totally eradicate all crypt, what about a series of these dips, say like one a day for a period of time, each time placing the fish in a different QT using aged, matched SW. To prevent reinfection from the Qt the fish was previously in. I don't mean necessarily a whole string of tanks, 2 should do. Sanitizing the tank the fish was previously in, then making it ready for the next dip.  <An very good way to do it, but beyond most people's ability and effort.   Steven Pro's excellent article has a bit on this method.  http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php .>
So if you don't think I'm nuts for this, do you think it's a viable option for a treatment? <Absolutely.> How many dips would it take and for how long for it to be an effective treatment to provide complete eradication? <Probably looking at a couple of weeks, although on your first attempt I would probably go a little longer.>  Would this be more stressful to the fish if done correctly? <Yes, would be stressful, but is all relative.>  Matching all water chemistry, avoiding nets, etc?  <Any time you net a fish it is stressful, and you do it often in this method, so there is one downside.>
Thank you so much for your patronage. You do not know how much help you wonderful site is to this aquarist. (and countless others)
Charlie
<Thanks>
<Chris>

Methylene blue  - 03/02/07
Hi there
<<Hello!>>
I have a 4cm black moor in my 10g tank and 3 days after buying it, it developed white spot - I'm assuming it had this when I bought it and I just didn't notice.
<<Perhaps.  What are your plans for tank upgrade?>>
So I put some methylene blue tonic in the tank to treat the whitespot, and the people at the pet shop (another one - I didn't trust the first lot after the sick fish) said to replace the airstone once the fish was well and the blueness would come out of the water.
<<Methylene blue is not the proper medication to treat ick. There are much better treatments for this.  You biofilter is likely gone now as well from dosing the main tank.  I’d get on large water changes, adding Bio Spira and mature filter media from an established tank, and add some activated carbon to the filter to help remove the medication.>>
I have an under gravel filter but not a carbon filter as such. The problem is that adding an air stone has made no difference,
<<No, it wouldn’t.>>
And my healthy-looking moor is now swimming around in blueness. I've done two 50% water changes over the past 2 days in an attempt to clear the water but it's still very blue.
I don't want to tip all the water out and start again because I don't want to kill or stress my fish, but I am quite keen to get rid of the blueness -any ideas?
<<See above.  If you have nowhere to add carbon (a small HOT filter will do), keep up the water changes.  Please note that the Methylene Blue will permanently colour the silicone in the joints of your tank.>>
Would tipping all the water out and starting again be that bad given that the methylene blue probably killed my biofilter anyway? <<Usually does not. RMF>>
<<I recommend large water changes, not total waterchanges.>>
Rose
<<Good Luck Rose! Lisa.>>