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Flame Angel.... Dying... soft corals? 6/27/16 Captive bred flame angel compatibility
8/26/16 Whacky Flame Angel "info" - 06/08/07 Hey Crew! <Darby> I've heard some pretty odd, lame, and pure B.S. things about many fish, but this latest tidbit is something that I have never heard before. Stopped at the LFS to pickup some frozen Mysis Shrimp, and saw that they had just shy of a dozen Flame Angels. <Wow!> There was a new kid working there (must be a summer job) <Or maybe Babylonian... or Baloneyian?> , who unsolicitedly spouted off everything he knew about them. He stated that they were all tank bred locally (meaning "somewhere" in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area), and that the breeding stock had been caught and flown in from the Cook Islands a few years ago. <Surprising to me... Flames have been produced in captivity... but are much more money (naturally) for much smaller specimens... And have been diving in the Cooks (just Roratonga and Aitutaki) and though Centropyge loricula is recorded from there, I never saw it> Most of these Flames are very bright red orange, with very little, if any yellow/orange on their flanks. All were very active and healthy, and seemed very eager to follow around fingers put up to the glass. Very personable. What really got me was that the young fellow stated that you could tell their sex by the color of their gill spines. There seemed to be an even number of fish with tan spines (female), black spines (male), and red spines ("undecided", which blended in with their bodies). I've heard of people sometimes being able to sex the fish based on color/paleness, but never on the spines. <Me neither...> Have y'all ever heard of this? Is it more likely just variations in individual color, kind of like the differences in the flank stripes width and shape? puzzled, and perhaps misled, Darby <Well... this is one of my fave species... but I know naught re what you state either! Bob Fenner> Twitching Flame Angel - 03/22/06 Hi I was wondering if you could help me with a problem I am having with my flame angel. I am e-mailing you because of the great advice I have seen you give so many other people. I would greatly appreciate some good advice. The Angel wont eat and he is twitching and darting around. He looks healthy otherwise and his coloring is vibrant with no signs of wounds. There are no visible signs of parasites and I have given him two freshwater baths. I have had him for 5-6 days and am wondering what the best course of action would be before it's too late. <Was this eating at your dealers? What?> I have a 55 gallon tank with about 15 lbs of live rock and about 3-4" of crushed coral/sand substrate. The tank has been up for about 7 months now. The ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are all reading at 0. PH 8.1-8.2. Salinity 1.021-1.022 Temperature 79 degrees. The other tank inhabitants are: 2- 1-2" percula clownfish 1- 2" Banggai cardinal 1- 2" blue velvet damsel 1- 3" mandarin dragonet 1- 3" skunk cleaner shrimp Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you very much for your time... -Brady <Could be a few things here... Please read: http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/centropyge/loricula.htm and the linked files above. Bob Fenner> Marine Centropyges: Flame Angel Rescue 10/27/05 Hi, crew.
<Hi Roger.> I urgently need help in how to best care for a small
Flame Angel I just rescued from the tanks of a major pet
supplier. <I understand how hard it is to see a fish suffer,
heck even I might be suckered in, darn human emotions. To the point
though, rescuing fish will only encourage folks to order and sell more
fish in poor conditions.> This poor fish was crammed into one
of their small display tanks with about 10 Purple Tangs, a Coral
Beauty, several Fire fish, and dozen or more Ocellaris Clown fish ( two
of which were on the bottom) . <Disgusting.> Their
fish arrive on Wednesday and I frequently stop by to see what's
new. Imagine my horror to see this beautiful fish being tormented by
the Purple Tangs and unable to escape. The flame was clearly distressed
and obviously had only a couple of hours to live. After summoning the
manager and voicing my displeasure about the flame's
accommodations. We both looked for a suitable tank for it to recover.
It took only a moment to realize this fish was doomed with no place to
go. I now have a stressed-out Flame Angel at home in a 10 gal.
tank. <In a quarantine tank this small, I would do daily water
changes.> I bought it with the understanding that if it died I
would get a refund or a replacement. The fish seems disoriented, though
it is swimming around. It was so stressed that I skipped the usual FW
dip. I didn't believe it would survive. <I agree with your
actions.> The lights are off and have offered no food. Will do
so tomorrow. I used water from my display tank, and a small Aqua Clear
power filter, heater and PVC pipe for shelter. Other than that, I
don't know what else to do other than wait. <You are on the
right track. Monitor for signs of disease there may very be some from
the conditions you describe at the store. Provide pristine water
conditions and offer a varied diet perhaps with a nutritional
supplement like Selcon.> <<It's also time to start
offering food, animal cannot repair/heal itself without
nutrients. Nori, romaine, something it can free-feed on, along
with meaty foods offered twice daily (don't leave in tank, siphon
off uneaten), and do perform those daily water changes.
MH>> I appreciate any thoughts or advise. Thanks, Roger
<Welcome, Adam J.> Angel of Destruction, Flame eating Turbos Hey guys, <Howdy> I have a 55 gallon FOWLR with a 3" flame angel, a 2.5" three stripe damsel, and a 2" black percula clown. Contrary to what you might think, this is a peaceful community tank. All of the inhabitants get along and the fish never stray from each other in the day time. However, in the past two days, the flame angel has begun to pick at the fleshy undersides of my turbo snails. She has Nori in the tank that she grazes on and she gets fed with the others each day and eats like a pig. I can't imagine why she would try to eat the snails. Could it be something on their skin she is trying to eat? <Mmm, doubtful... it is the snails themselves. You do have live rock?> I've never heard of Centropyge angels trying to eat snails. Any ideas you had would be great. All water param.s are fine and no deaths at all. Thanks for the help. Nick <Not overly odd... Bob Fenner> Carnivorous Flame Angel Good evening keepers of knowledge, <Well, not sure if I keep knowledge, I humbly just keep water as the old Japanese monks would say, the fish are just in the water I am keeping.> Just wondering if it's unusual for a flame angel to shy away from herbivore food (Nori, angelfish preparations) and prefer to eat just Mysis shrimp. I have one in quarantine now and she'll eat the meaty parts, but doesn't seem interested in anything else. Otherwise, she's the picture of perfect health as far as I can see. Is this an example of just her personality or is this a sign of something? Thanks for the info as always. Nick <No, Nick it is not unusual, angel fish are mostly an omnivorous group, preferring to eat a wide variety of foods. I would try to wean it off the shrimps though and try a meatier food such as whitefish silversides or squid. To ensure proper nutrition, I use a algae cube that is mixed greens and also has shrimp and squid scents on it and mixed in it that my angels and tangs in the past have loved. It ensures they eat everything they need and also keeps them happy. My personal was a marine cuisine mix of 4 cubes in one package. I highly recommend some type of mix like that to try in q/t. otherwise offer the shrimp in a seaweed or Nori covered cube. that way the angel has to eat some greens to get the shrimp and should eventually associate the Nori or seaweeds as food as well.> <Justin (Jager)> Flame Angel with Bi-Color? Good Afternoon Crew, First and foremost, thank you for endless amount of useful information that can be found on your site. I was wondering if you had a moment and could possibly comment on a proposed stocking question I have? We are currently going to restock our tank after a nasty bout with ich. After quarantining a new addition, and then adding it to the display tank, a few weeks later it came down with ich, and of course spread it like wildfire. Anyway, to make a long story short, we have 3 fish that have survived and are in a hospital/quarantine tank while the display tank is fallow (currently 7 weeks fallow, shooting for 8 weeks "just to be sure" and more than willing to go longer if you think it advisable). The 3 remaining fish are a gold strip Maroon Clown (3?"), YT damsel (2") and a Flame Hawkfish (3"). Tank stats: 72g bow, 80-90lbs live rock (from various regions), 50-60lbs live sand, Coralife 4-65W lights, Temp 78-79, SG 1.024, PH 8.3, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 10), 10% weekly water changes, Fluval 404 (using Chemi-pure and PhosBan in the trays). AquaC Remora skimmer, with Maxi Jet 1200, 2 additional MJ 1200 for circulation (in a crisscross pattern), some hairy mushrooms, various other mushrooms, 3 Hawaiian feather dusters, misc. crabs and snails. We would like to add a dwarf Bi-Color Angel and a dwarf Flame Angel. We are planning on adding these both at the same time (after being quarantined), and are prepared to put one in a separate tank if they get aggressive. The question is, if they do get along with each other, would it be possible to add a couple of small Chromis' specifically - the Black Bar Chromis (Chromis retrofasiata) for color diversity, or are we at a max as far as stocking goes already?? Thank you for your help in advance! Wendy >>>Hi Wendy, Unless you're just looking for a headache, I wouldn't mix a flame with a Bi-color in a tank that size. Even if it works at first, eventually the Flame will kill the Bi-color, and that's if you're lucky enough to get a Bi-color to live that long in the first place. Bi-colors are often cyanide caught which causes them to "crash" after a few days to a few weeks. I would concentrate on finding a nice, healthy Flame that eats well. I'd say at that point you're getting to the point of being stocked pretty well for a tank that size, but you can certainly add 3 Chromis if you want. If you do this I would pull the Yellowtail first. Good luck! Jim<<< Problem with Flame Angel Dear WWM Crew, I am quite new with saltwater tank hobby, I used to have a freshwater tank and a Koi pond for many years. I have changed my 125 gal freshwater tank into saltwater FOWLR tank about 9 months ago since I was very attracted with the beauty of marine aquarium. So far my FOWLR tank (equipped with sump and refugium with Caulerpa taxifolia and mangrove) seems running well. So far all the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate was not detected and there are no problem with all of my existing fish (1 yellow tang, 1 purple tang, 1 Kole tang, 1 Sailfin tang, 1 yellow face angel, 1 Koran angel, 1 mandarin goby, and 1 blue devil). A month ago I bought a flame angel, however this fish finally did not stay longer in my tank and it was died 1 week after introduced to my tank without any specific symptom appeared. 5 days ago I got a new flame angel. I used not to quarantine all of my fish before they were introduced to my tank, however since I have got a god advise mainly from WWM... <No gods here> ...that it was necessary to quarantine the fish therefore I do now the quarantine for this new flame angel before it was introduced to my main tank. I am using 15 gal tank equipped with skimmer and sponge (old sponge from my sump) filter for this quarantine tank and I have done a 10% water change every day. At the beginning this fish looks terrific and active, however since 2 days ago it looks less active and sometimes it shaking the body. Last night I do a fresh water dip of this fish and during the water dip there are something looks like a crystal salt falling down from its gills. What kind of disease with this symptom? <Maybe a trematode> How do I have to do to cure this disease? The colour of this fish still remain bright and no any white spot appearing on its body. Please help me on this matter, since I do not want to lose this beautiful fish for the second time. Thanks in advance for your help on this matter. Best regards, Petrus <I would introduce a cleaner organism to your quarantine tank... likely a Gobiosoma goby... and move this on into your main tank when it's time. I would NOT add chemical medicines to the water at this juncture. Bob Fenner> Fishy Prices, Greetings! I truly enjoy your web site and the wealth of knowledge available. I only wish my brain could retain more. I was at the LFS perusing the stock and came across a Flame Angel (from Fr. Polynesia) that I was interested in until I saw the price. It was double of what of I had thought it should be. The owner said that prices on some fish are up due to the tsunami. I was wondering if you have any insight to the wholesale prices being affected by the tsunami or if the LFS is trying to fleece me. Thank you for sharing your expertise and your time. <Well I can tell you this, my LFS sells Flames at 39.00-49.00 depending on their origin. James (Salty Dog)> - Angel & Hermit Interaction - Hello and thank you in advance, I have had a Flame Angel about a week now, and he has acted quite odd toward the hermit crab I have. The Flame Angel frequently swims up to the crab and presents his side to the crab. It does not appear to be hostile, it really seems to be as an offering. The Flame will nearly lie down on the substrate in front of the hermit crab. It almost appears as if the Flame expects a cleaning or something... but as far as I have read up on this I don't see any reference to this behavior in Angels and other species. Any ideas? <Not really... does sound like the fish is looking for a cleaning, but honestly it's pretty much impossible to know the true motivations of fish.> Should I be concerned? <No more than any other day... always want to observe your tank's occupants, make sure all are in good health, etc.> The crab hasn't yet, but I worry he'll grab the Angel one day for lunch. <That's a big thing to take down for a hermit crab... doubt this will happen.> The Angel seems fine otherwise. <Good.> Thanks again, Lance <Cheers, J -- > Flame Angel in a 20 gallon? Thanks for your earlier advice. Off the top of your head, would you think I could put a Flame Angelfish in this tank (it would be alone in there, except for the small crab)? Tom >>>Hello again Tom, There are a few factors that determine whether or not a fish is appropriate for a given tank size. Not only the size of the fish comes into play, but it's activity level as well. Flame angels are VERY active fish, and use very inch of a 200 gallon aquarium. For this reason alone I would discourage keeping one in such a small tank. An argi angel (Centropyge argi) or C. acanthops would be much more comfortable in this system. They are also much more reliable in the hardiness department. Good luck! Jim<<< Flame Angels and Ick (12/11/04) Dear Crew <Hi. Steve Allen tonight.> How easily do flame angels get ick? <Probably not as easily as Tangs, but they certainly are at least as vulnerable as your average fish.> I have had three of them so far from three different places Fiji, Hawaii, and Marshall Islands and each one has had it. They all appear healthy when I purchase them with no signs of ich, no scratching or signs of irritation, eating well, and behaving normally. Then, in a few days spots start to appear. However it just seems like a few spots that developed on the gill fins and tail fins and not the entire body. <That means the ick is in your tank, not on the fishes, though it is possible they became infested at the fish store.> The ones from Fiji and Hawaii have both died on me after a month and the one from Marshall Islands I purchased a couple of days ago and has started to show signs on the gill and tail fins. I read through your site and see you recommend treating angels with formalin. <This is one way of doing so. Did you read about quarantine? This is the key step. Keep any new acquisitions in QT for 4 weeks. If they get ick in there, they probably brought it with them. If they pass QT and then get ick in your main display, then you have ick in there. The most effective way to rid a tank of ick is 6-8 weeks of no fish (aka "fallow")> I have been using Green-ex. How does this work? <Green-ex? Most would say it doesn't work.> Is it safe to use formalin in the display tank containing cleaner shrimp, hermits, snails, live rock, and one piece of coral? <No> I regrettably don't have a quarantine tank. <This is the root of your problem, and you will not solve this problem without one. A simple QT consisting of a 10G tank or a Rubbermaid container, air-driven sponge filter, heater, and some PVC pieces can be set up for under $50, which often is the price of one Flame Angel.> I have also been feeding fish with flakes containing garlic. Does this help? <Perhaps. It does stimulate appetite and may strengthen immunity. I will admit that I successfully treated a 300 gallon reef system with garlic, Bio-Coat, diatom filtration, $120 worth of No-Ich (allegedly reef-safe), and a $200 UV sterilizer with no evident injury to any invertebrates. I have seen none for 3 months now. I don't know which of these really was key. I was desperate and absolutely unable to catch and quarantine all of those fish. The only other option for me at the Tim was to tear down and quit. This all started when I was forced to pull a Tang out of QT a bit prematurely (after only 2 weeks). I think the reason the ick disappeared eventually was that the Tang finally died and the other fish were able to fight it off in conjunction with the treatments. The Tang could not. I still recommend quarantine/fallow as the best treatment. If there are just a few spots, you could consider something else, but putting the Flame in QT to do so is smartest. Check out the articles on ick at www.reefkeeping.com and www.advancedaquarist.com.> Please write back fast! Laurel <Hope this helps, Steve Allen> Flame and Coral Beauty angels fighting -greetings from rainy Chicago! << Greetings from snowy Salt Lake. >> I did a stupid thing and took the advice of a LFS in my area that I've never visited before and now I have a coral beauty and a flame angel in my 54 gallon tank TOGETHER! (yikes). the new flame angel immediately started chasing my poor coral beauty whom I've had for a year and truly care about. << I wouldn't have been too worried about this, so I'm surprised to see such a problem. Especially caused by the new fish and not the old fish. >> I'm going to try and return him but I strongly have the feeling that they won't take him back and I just don't want to give a $60 fish away, (not that I have anyone to give him to). << Lots of hobbyists and clubs in the Chicago area. >> I also have a blue tang, yellow tang, blue devil damsel (small), and two Percula clowns. do you guys have suggestions or helpful advice to aid my dilemma. I care about my fish and don't want to see any of them die of stress. << Well if you can catch him, then I'd keep him in the tank is something like a breeding trap for a few days. If you can't easily catch him then I wouldn't do anything. The more you mess with the tank the more likely you are to stress the other fish. >> the flame angel will chase the coral beauty for a second and then call off the chase but he does do it frequently. the coral beauty doesn't seem distressed but then it's only been a day. I was thinking if I add some more LR for hiding spaces and just watch for a week maybe they'll get used to each other. the flame angel is slightly bigger which is another concern. I've gone through all your FAQ's and didn't find anything to help me in my situation. only advice I found was advice I should of looked for before I bought the fish, (won't make that mistake again)!! please, please, please help. thank you again for your site, I now know where to go for unbiased advice!! << Yeah I really think I would do nothing and just wait it out. Probably not what you were hoping to hear but that is what I would do. >> -thanks, heather << Blundell >> Flame with cloudy eyes Hi- <Hi Wes, MacL here with you today> I am glad you guys are here to help! I looked on the site, and did not find a direct answer to my problem. I have a yellow tang, flame angel and clown fish in my 75g tank. Everyone was happy for a couple months, then ich started to appear. I began treatment with Rid Ich, vacuuming the gravel daily. Fish still ate and functioned normally during this time. At the beginning of the treatment, I gave all three a fresh water dip (each in their own prepared water) which gave some relief. <Good to hear> When catching the flame angel for this dip, I was using a net to guide her into a container. She darted into the net, and was stuck in it for about 20 seconds, head first. I was able to loose her from the net without any force on my part. After this, her eyes seemed cloudy - I don't know if this is a result of the net scratching them or something else. <It could be the net or could be the effect of the parasites or even possibly the left over bacterial infection.> I thought this would go away, as it did not seem to affect her in any way. Over the last few days, sometimes it seems it is improving, sometimes getting worse. Her behavior has remained normal, as though nothing is wrong. When I fed this morning, it was as though she could not see the food clearly, and thus missed it. <She probably can't see clearly. I really would suggest some type of hospital tank and a course of antibiotics treatment. If she starts to show signs of Popeye you can use Epsom salts to give her some relief in that way as well.> Upon feeding tonight, she was able to eat some, but still seemed as though her vision is hazy. The ich has improved a lot, the tang has no signs, the angel a very small amount left, as well as the clown. I have been treating for 6 days. Also, over the last 6 days I have slowly lowered the salinity to 1.017. All other conditions are just right. Please let me know what I should do to correct this problem! Also, I have noticed that sometimes it looks as though my tang is showing signs of aggression to its reflection in the glass - is this something to worry about? <You don't mention the tank size? Does he have lots of swimming room?> Thanks in advance for your help. Wes. Flame Angel Compatibility Hi again, guys! :) <Hey Jeff, MacL here with you tonight> I have a 70g reef, 90lbs premium live rock (covered in coralline), 60lbs Carib Sea sand ( 4" DSB) with the following livestock: 2 Ocellaris, 1 Chevron Tang (juv), 1 Rainford's Goby, 1 Scooter Blenny (Blenny and Goby are my oldest fish; close to a year) few Emerald Crab's, Fire Shrimp, misc Snails (Turbo, etc), 3 Hermit Crabs and an Archaster Typicus. Corals: 2 Brains (an 'Open' and a 'Closed'), some pulsing Xenia (spreading and pulsing happily) and some Frogspawn. If it matters, I have a bit of Caulerpa mexicana and racemosa in there as well (which I plan on taking out when my refugium is complete; having a custom box built). Water Param.s: Amm/Nitrite/Nitrate - 0, PH: 8.3, Alk/DKH: 3.77/10.6, Phosph: 0.1. Ca: 440, Temp: hi/low 79.4/80.2. Supplementing with ESV products (Ca, Alk, Mg and filter feeder food). I found a very very nice Flame Angel locally. It's about 2.5" in size and has really brilliant colors. It's been QT'd at the vendor's for about 3 weeks and just put into the display (though I would still QT it myself). All of my fish are very passive towards each other and the Rainford, Ocellaris and Tang actually "school" around a bit. It's very cool. :) I'd like to not interrupt the peacefulness of my tank, but would eventually like to add 1 or 2 (max) more fish. I plan on adding a Mandarin Goby after my refugium is in place and I move all of the Caulerpa there (which I've heard is bad to have in your main display for soft corals/LPS's for some reason?). I have excellent copepod production currently and a very fat Dragonet (the two of them cannot keep up with the pods I have!). Do you guys think there'd be any territorial issues or I'd have problems with a Flame Angel nipping at my LPS's/softs? I've read reports from people that have them reflecting both, so it's hard to say for me. <I have heard that flames can be tough on brain corals although I do know quite a few people who do have them successfully in their reef tank. I hate to say it but its a gamble. I personally love them and hope to always be able to have one in my tanks.> Thanks in advance for all of your help! <Good luck Jeff. MacL> Jeff. Flame Out? (Flame Angel In Trouble?) Hi, <Hi there! Scott
F. here tonight> I've been treating all of my fish (1 Valentini
Puffer, 1 Neon Goby, 3 Firefish,1 Flame Angel) with hyposalinity for
ich for 3 weeks now. It's been almost 2 weeks since all the ich
spots are gone. I'm slowly raising sg back to normal. (it's at
1.015 now, amm 0, nitrite, 0, temp 78.6, ph 8.0) Last week, my Flame
Angel, however, wasn't interested in eating and was breathing
rapidly. She soon improved (after a day) so I kept her in the QT with
the other fish. She had what looked like a white pimple near the gills,
but no ich spots. Again this week, I've noticed a decline in
appetite and movement the past couple of days. She wasn't
interested in food this morning and was breathing rapidly again. Is
this ich (maybe in the gills so I can't see spots)? None of the
other fish show symptoms. <Quite possible; or it could be some other
parasitic illness...> I plan on moving the flame to another QT,
where I will treat with formalin. Is this ok or should I wait to see if
she improves again? I really don't know what's wrong with her,
so I'm hesitant about treating her with meds. Thanks. A <Agreed.
Continuous exposure to medication is never a good thing. On the other
hand, the breathing difficulties are cause for concern. My
thinking is to observe the fish in quarantine for a few days. If the
fish appears to be declining, or if other symptoms of ich or other
parasitic disease manifest, then I would go for the formalin treatment.
Hang in there...Be prepared to take action if necessary. Good luck!
Regards, Scott F> Flame angel ill I have had my flame angel for almost 6 months. I came home today and noticed what seems to be white mucous on its gills, fins and tail. <He could have a slime coating from something irritation him> He is also swimming about quite fast so I'm having a real hard time getting a good look at him. I don't know what it could be (I've read ick looks like salt, this doesn't look like salt, I don't know what ick looks like I've never had a fish that's had it or anything else for that matter). <First thing I would do is a water change. That's the first thing I always do when I have a fish that appears to be having problems.> I have no idea what it is or what I should do. Any advice on helping Tigger would be great! Thanks. <The other possibility could be Lymphocystis. But it looks more like cauliflower growing on it. I really believe something in the tank has irritated him and he has a big slime coat. You need to figure out what did this AFTER you get him back under control. A water change is the first step to getting the water conditions correct. Good luck Kelly from MacL> Kelly Can't Keep Flame Angels Alive (8/31/04) I have had a fairly successful 125 gallon marine aquarium for 3 years. Though I started with a "fish only" I've gradually developed my aquarium into one that sustains both fish and some of the tougher inverts and soft corals. I think of the Flame Angel as pretty much a perfect angelfish. <No disagreement from me, though there are many other fine ones, including the Coral Beauty. As a whole the Centropyge genus has a number of advantages over the larger angels.> It's small, very colorful, and not aggressive. <Well, others may beg to differ on that, but on the whole they are less aggressive than some of the others.> I've tried several times in the last 2 years to keep one in my "reef". Each time, the angel starts out fine, but gradually "balloons up" until it dies. When purchased it appeared as a well-fed fish; but this proceeds to raised scales on the sides and a stomach area that swells larger with each day. In each case, no other fish in the tank has ever shown this. <Suspicious for internal parasites and/or bacterial infection.> There's no evidence of ich, or any external symptoms other than the swelling. Since Flames are deeper water fish, I wonder about air bladder woes. <Well they are found as shallow as 30 feet. They do not appear to be unduly subject to such problems, which BTW, would seriously impair their swimming in your tank, not just cause bloating.> I do buy the fish from the same LFS, and I have read about this fish's unexplained loss of hardiness in recent years. <Indeed, and this may be the problem. However, many of us have thriving Flames. I wish I could explain why mine has been thriving for a year and yours all die. Perhaps there is some aspect of your tank that only affects the Angels, though it may be very difficult to pinpoint. You might want to network with other aquarists, on our forum for instance, to see what seems to be working for those who are having success. You may find something that way. Do you quarantine? An extended period might help. You might be better off seeking Hawaiian specimens, or even the newer, albeit expensive, tank-bred Flames, which are likely to be hardier and parasite-free. Food for thought, anyway. Steve Allen.> Popeye On A Flame Angel? <Hi, Scott F. here with you.> I have a Flame Angel that has been in QT and doing GREAT! I added him to the main tank last night and all the lights where off. The QT tank has one piece of live rock in it so not really any caves. The main tank has a ton of LR in it so it has a lot of caves. He went in the main tank ok without issues and found a little cave to play in of his own. This morning we couldn't find him and started getting worried. Well, we finally found him and he had a bubble over one eye. Everything that I read on your site says that one eye usually equals being hurt. I just wanted to check and make sure that this is what you think the case is because he was swimming kind of funny too. Do you think that he probably hit his eye in the NEW caves and might be swimming funny (comes out of the rock, swims on his side, then straightens back up and goes back into the rock) because of the eye and new surroundings? <This is a definite possibility. Unilateral (one eye) Popeye is almost always caused by an injury. It is also entirely possible that the fish is a bit disoriented after this trauma. It's hard to be 100% certain without seeing the fish, but I'd bet that this is what's happening here. The good news is that this type of injury can be easily treated with Epsom salt in the QT tank to help draw down the swelling> The purple tang that was in QT with him and was added last night as well is doing GREAT. <Good to hear> I did notice that my cleaner shrimp really cleaned the Flame Angel for a while verses what they cleaned the Purple and the two Chromis. Almost had the Flame Angel pinned trying to clean him. Could this indicate some sort of bacterial infection? <Well, it's really hard to say. In all likelihood, the shrimp simply found very willing "customers" in these fish, and merely did a very thorough job.> Thanks for all the help AGAIN! JB <My pleasure, JB! Regards, Scott F.> Flame Angel Flashing 7/29/04 Hey guys, <Hi Nathan, MacL here with you tonight> I have a Flame Angel that is flashing on some PVC pipe. I have never seen him flash or rub himself on anything else such as the rocks, fake corals or gravel. He has no spots and no apparent problems. <Sounds like something is bothering his gills though. Is your tank a reef tank or a fish only tank? If reef you might want to invest in a neon goby or a cleaner shrimp.> He is eating well. Could he be rubbing on the PVC pipe because it is soft and a little slimy and feels good or do you think he has a disease? <I think something is irritating him for him to be rubbing.> What do you think? Water conditions are immaculate. No Ammonia or Nitrites and Nitrates are below 5.<I got to say I'd prefer nitrates at 0.> Temp., salinity and PH good. I feed 80% my home brew frozen food from Bob's book of Spirulina, Green Algae, Zo? And a mix of Shrimp, Mussels, Squid and Scallops and 20% Algae, Formula 1 and 2 and Spirulina Flakes soaked in Zo? Is Spirulina good for Tangs and Angels? <Yes but angels do need some sponge in their diet as well. There are some good angel mixes.> Not as a primary food especially for Angels, but as a supplement especially when soaked in vitamins? I thought the ingredients of what is the name of that flake food that is made in Alaska, big company I am sure you know the name, herbivore looks good. What do you think? The first ingredient is Kelp and the second is Spirulina and then Salmon, and other fish. Is Kelp good for Tangs? <Yes, but so is the Nori you get in a Chinese store same thing much better price.> Is this a good supplemental food to go along with my home brew? <Yes but I would invest in some frozen foods with some sponge in them.> -Flame angel not eating- Dear Bob, <Kevin here in his stead> Bless your heart for your knowledge on marine livestock and inverts and making it available to novices like us :) <You're very welcome, will pass along!> I have a question on my recently acquired flame...I'm trying to get him to eat (Mysis, brine, greens, etc) but all he does is pick at the live rocks... <My first instinct on this is to simply wait a bit and he'll start eating, since most of them do. In the event that he does not start eating offered foods (keeping in mind that they can sustain themselves for a long time on just rock nibblings) then I would suggest trying live brine shrimp to try and entice a feeding response. Since this fish was 'recently acquired' which could mean you got it yesterday, I wouldn't expect it to eat immediately, since they need some time to feel comfortable in their new surroundings after the stresses of fish store capture and transport.> (he is an absolutely beauty though). Any clue on how I can improve this condition? I have seen suggestions on angels prepared foods (ocean nutrition) but I thought they should be at least interested in greens? <The pygmy you have is not as interested in the sponge (the base for Ocean Nutrition's angel formula) as they are in marine greenery (the base for Ocean Nutrition's pygmy angel formula, ironically enough with a picture of a flame angel on the package). I would start by tying some dried seaweeds to the live rock in hopes that he will pick that way and start getting used to it.> This flame is housed in my 70 gal display tank along with a Copperband butterfly and a clown... <Go figure that the flame would have an eating problem and the Copperband doesn't! -Kevin> Thanks for your time in this... Steve Jen. Need help with my flame angel Hi Rob/Marina.. <Hi there> I finally have my first fish in my new tank, but alas something is wrong with my flame angel. Tank was fully cycled for about 6 weeks. this is a 90g tank with about 75# of live rock. Water test are all normal, no ammonia. Anyway, I have had the fish for about 2 weeks, doesn't really pay attention or eat the food I try to give it, the are some angel formula pellets. But the flame does it the various algae, greens in the tank and what I believe are copepods (small with looking worms, I also see some very small specimens which look like tiny spiders, don't know what they are? any the flame eats all of these things. <Pycnogonids likely... and the Flame is probably consuming all sorts of organisms that are the live rock>> I am noticing that one eye is cloudy, I also see on one side a little whitish patch (looks like a little explosion, i.e. a fungus? <Maybe> It is very hard to see, I can only see it from certain angles. I also now notice that at times the flame is scratching often, and sometimes swimming erratically, I also see her actually resting along the rocks. I don't see white specks on her but I suspect she has some kind of parasite. I have been searching your site, but simply don't know what she has?? Any advice and treatment suggestions would be very much appreciated. I don't have a treatment tank, but could set one up if need. thanks. <I would just wait, observe this fish for now... unless it looks thin I would not be overly concerned with its feeding. Bob Fenner> Flame continues to degrade... Thanks Bob (apologize for the previous typo), <No worries> I am getting more nervous now, this weekend I also noticed that the second eye is also cloudy and that her back fins are getting rotted (and their are no other fish/verts in the tank). Still has what looks to be an open sore, kind of a whitish fuzz on one side. Are you sure their isn't anything I should be doing, I am actually surprised she is surviving cause she doesn't look very good. Appreciate your thoughts. <Well... if you had a "better" system... basically one that was about the same, but had been set up longer... I might move this fish to it... Likely what is occurring with this Flame is resultant from its handling, care before you... best you can do is provide a stable, optimized environment and "hold on" at this point. There are no "wonder treatments" or additives you can put in the water that will help. Bob Fenner> Sick Flame Angel (4/12/04) Hi. Thanks in advance for
taking the time to answer my question. <You're welcome. Steve
Allen tonight.> I have a 90 gallon FO with some live rock (1
Chromis and 1 flame angel). I have had the flame angel for over a week
now and has been eating well (Mysis shrimp, formula 2 flakes, plankton,
and just got some pygmy angel food because my tank has brown diatoms
but no green algae for the flame to graze on). <Oops! No
quarantine?> Recently I noticed that the flame's color has
paled quite a bit since I got him (especially his lips which are
whitish), his fins look frayed and is swimming slightly erratically at
times (up and down the side of the tank). His gill area is slightly
gray in color as well, but no white spots or other signs of ich. I know
he's sick, but what is it? Ich? <Doubtful--the little white
spots are classic.> He's still eating well <a good sign>
and I'm unsure how to treat him. I know flames are copper
sensitive. I thought it might be a water quality issue but all
parameters are fine (ammonia 0, nitrate 0, nitrates 20). I just did a
5% water change in case. <Always smart. Sometimes bigger changes
(30-50% or even higher) are best if a true toxic crisis is
suspected.> If I treat him, do I need to put him in QT along
with the damsel (who looks fine; my QT is a 10 gallon set up a week
ago) or can I dose Formalin into the main tank (will that kill the live
rock?). <Will kill many desirable things. Never treat the main
tank.> I guess I can't bear the thought of stressing him out by
moving him into QT. <It's not really stressful. You can keep it
darker in there and have some PVC fittings to hide in.> Do I need to
then leave the tank fallow for 4 weeks if it's ich? I'm really
unsure of where to go from here. Thanks kindly, Angela <well,
this is a tough situation that could have been avoided by proper 4-week
quarantine prior to introduction into the main tank. Again, I doubt
ich. Amyloodinium would be another consideration. Do look at some pix.
However, this disease usually causes rapid breathing and is quickly
fatal. I'm more worried about a bacterial infection. You really
need to move this fish out of your display. I'd consider treating
with an antibiotic. Keep the water in great shape & feed
adequately, but not too much. It's OK to leave the Damsel behind
for now if no signs of illness. If you suspect parasites, both fish
need to be treated in QT and the display tank left fishless for 6-8
weeks. Unfortunately, a lot of Flame Angels have been doing poorly in
recent years, especially for certain areas where cyanide is used, so it
is not uncommon for them dwindle & die over the first few weeks.
You can read more about this on WWM. Hope this helps.> Environmental Problem, Or Disease? Hi! <Hi there! Scott F. here today> We have a sick Flame Angel and were hoping for some help. We've been looking through the Q&A and can find some similarities, but nothing that seems to fit all of them and was hoping you could help us. <I'll do my best!> We've had the tank up and running for over a year and we've had "Flamey" for about 6 months. About a week ago, he stopped eating. Someone said to try feeding him something else, so we tried brine shrimp and he wasn't even the least bit interested. He pretty much stays in one part of the 30 gallon tank. The very tips of his fins look a just a little straggly and he's gotten very pale the past 2 days. Today I noticed that he's starting to twitch and swim a little erratically. I can't find anything on him (spots, fuzzy stuff.. etc). We've done 2 water changes in the past 5 days. When I checked the water today the nitrates were at about 20. The ammonium tests showed .5 on one and 1.0 on the other (I ran 2 different tests - one with a strip and one with adding drops) so I added some ammolock2 to the water. <Well, detectable ammonia levels are definitely problematic, and almost certainly contributed to the fish's difficulties> Any insight that you can give to help out our little guy would be great (we and his yellow tang buddy will be really upset if we lose him!) Thanks so much! Joanne and John <Well, guys- I think that a large part of the problem is the detectable ammonia level in the system. Erratic behaviour and damaged fins are often a sign of metabolite poisoning. I'd execute some water changes with quality source water. However, more importantly, I'd look for the source of the ammonia. and correct it immediately. In the absence of other symptoms, I'll bet that some husbandry adjustments (i.e.; stepped-up water changes, use of chemical filtration media, aggressive protein skimming, etc.) can make all the difference here. Do continue to observe the fish carefully, and run regular water tests to monitor your progress. I think that you'll see a difference after a week or so. However, make sure that you stay vigilant for possible disease symptoms, just in case. Good luck! Regards, Scott F> Feeding Centropyge loriculus - 2/17/04 Hi, can you tell me what I can feed my flame angel. He only seems to eat the flakes I put in the tank. I also have put in pellets, scallops, clams, seaweed, blood worms and none of these seem to work. I know he needs a varied diet and flakes is not a varied diet at all. I have heard that if he doesn't get a varied diet, then he will stop eating and die with in 6 months. What else should I try? <try reading here, my friend: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dwfangfdgfaqs.htm No need to re-invent the wheel. Hopefully you can find something that you haven't tried before. Thanks for your inquiry. ~Paul> Thanks - Livestock Questions - Hi all. A few questions for you: I have a 25 gallon FOWLR setup (the tank/lighting/filtration system is an eclipse 3 version if you've heard of it) with ~13 lbs of live rock and a few pieces of dead rock with pretty holes to swim through. My current inhabitants are two true percula clowns and a neon goby, plus my cleanup crew of 3 tiny hermits, 3 snails and 1 enormous scarlet hermit who is currently in solitary confinement so he won't eat the others (plan to return him later). What is a good ratio of hermits/snails to gallons? <For a tank like yours, a half-dozen or so.> I plan to add a pair of skunk cleaner shrimp to this setup, but I have heard that they cannot tolerate high nitrate levels. Is my reading of 5ppm considered high? <I wouldn't consider that high... the shrimp should be fine.> Next--Can a flame angelfish be added to this setup without problems? <No... I predict problems.> I read the article on flame angels http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/centropyge/loricula.htm and saw that the should be kept in a larger tank than the one I have. If I got one, <A larger tank?> would he be able to live a natural and healthy life & be able to get along with everyone? <Not in your existing tank.> Also, would I be pushing the bioload with this addition? <Yes.> Next question--I watched my neon goby for about a week at the LFS to make sure he was in good health before buying him, he looked great, actively swimming about, darting away when I came up to him, and eating. The only thing about him was that he did not have the characteristic 'neon' blue on his sides, more of a white color. I followed the advice of a book I read that said not to judge a fish by the color it displays in the LFS tank and bought him, as they are supposed to be much more vibrant after they settle down into a more permanent home. Is this right? <For some fish... with these gobies, sometimes there are hybrids available which are typically crosses of the yellow and blue gobies, and the offspring of these are often pale blue.> Can I expect the goby to live up to his name? <Maybe... give it some time.> Thanks for any answers <Cheers, J -- > Feeding a Flame (Angel) Thanks for your reply Graham. I do plan to upgrade to over 150 gallons, I was thinking like 200 or in that area as my puffer will grow to 19 inches long. I have had my tank set up since the beginning of august now. I have only had 1 casualty and that was the Rock Beauty Angel which died for unknown reasons. That was into the third month my tank was set up. I will go and get my water tested today and if everything works out fine and well, then I will get the flame angel. One quick question though, do I need to feed this angel sponge foods, I had fed my old angel sponge foods as directed by my one local fish store then the other one said it was not necessary but I did it anyways just to be safe. So do I need it or not? Thanks <The flame angel will pick at algae and encrusting sponges growing on the rockwork. While this isn't its main diet, it will benefit the angel to continuously pick at these sources on the rockwork or aquarium glass. I wouldn't bother trying to specially feed the angel sponge based foods if you have liverock already in your system. I would although look into feeding your angel small pieces of squid, shrimp, blood worms, brine, krill, Mysid shrimp, and possibly any Nori based foods on a regular basis. Soaking the food in garlic may also benefit the angelfish.> Take Care, Graham Stephan - Ich on Flame Angel - Hello Crew, I really appreciate you
looking at this for me! I brought home a 3" flame angel last
week. It looked great in the store, but as is often the case
developed ich spots a couple of days after I brought it home. I
have looked through the Centropyge FAQs, but am a little confused.
Should I dose with copper, should I fw dip? Opinions seem to
be mixed about this regarding this genus. <As long as the fish is in
quarantine, I would dip first, Formalin later if things don't seem
to be on the mend. These fish are sensitive to copper so a
weaker-than-normal dose is what's in order, or Formalin will work
against ich. Do not medicate the main tank.> He is currently in a
20H bare bottom QT. <Excellent.> I have been treating with
RidIch, which is a Formalin/malachite green mixture for the past 3
days. <Then after 14 days, should be ich-free.> I have been able
to bring quite a few specimens back with this stuff. However, this fish
seems to be getting more spots everyday. <Do check the water quality
- likely need to be swapping out about half that tank every other day
to keep the water quality in check. You'll need to add your
medication after the water changes to keep the therapeutic level of the
Formalin in an effective range.> I am feeding him Mysis soaked in
Selcon and a little garlic. <Ahh... good on the Selcon, I've
about lost my faith in garlic to do anything but load up the
skimmer.> He is eating pretty well. I also have some Nori
in the tank for him. He nibbles on this from time to
time. What is the best coarse of action for this situation?
<You are on the right path.> Any advice is very much appreciated.
Thanks, Jeff
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