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Re: FOWLR Fish stocking 6/1/12 6/5/12
Tufa Rock and Hair Algae 3/1/12 Rinsing Frozen Food (Managing Phosphate) --
04/06/10 Re: Rinsing Frozen Food (Managing
Phosphate) -- 04/06/10 Phosphate And Nitrate In Live Rock
1/13/10 Phosphate -- 09/26/09 Phosphate & Stocking question:
Phosphate\nutrient\algae control and stocking SW 8/30/3009 Re: Phosphate & Stocking question:
Phosphate\nutrient\algae control and stocking SW 8/30/3009 Hair Algae and it's
"Nemesis"?!? 8/24/09 Re: Hair Algae and it's
"Nemesis"?!? 8/24/09 Re: Hair Algae and it's
"Nemesis"?!? 8/28/09 Should I rinse frozen food to remove
phosphates? 8/2/09
Rock Leaching Phosphate, Is It Harmful To Fish?...And...After 8-Weeks Fallow, Will My Ich Return? -- 01/12/08 Hey Eric! <<Hey Don!>> Hope all is well with you. <<Not so bad'¦ Currently devoting most all my free-time to a very large renovation/remodeling project'¦can't say I won't be happy when it's done>> I have a question about live rock and phosphates. <<Okay>> I bought some base rock cheap, covered in coralline algae, and I know it's been in the tank for over a month being kept with fish and other animals but they told me that I wouldn't want it cause it leeches phosphates. <<And yet you bought it anyway [grin]>> They told me it was cured so I took it and put it in quarantine and I haven't gotten any readings of phosphates. <<Very good>> Would the rock after being cured be o.k. to put in the main tank or does certain rock always leech phosphate? <<Most any rock can be a source of soluble Phosphate'¦but your tests seem to bear out that this rock will be fine>> Also do phosphates kill fish? <<Hmm, I suppose there's a limit where it could. But in my experience with systems with very high Phosphate levels the fish did not deem bothered directly>> I never had a problem with it and tried to read as much as possible but there were no FAQs that I could find about it. <<Mmm'¦a 'quick' search turns up nothing specific to this for me either. If I am off track/if more need be stated, I trust Bob will interject>> I finally put the fish back in the 210 after 8 week quarantine. <<In regards to your Ich issue, yes'¦excellent>> What are the chances of the main tank and fish being 100% cured because after this live rock is done I was thinking of Hippo Tang to put in the quarantine but if it's not likely 100% then I'll probably not bother with tangs. <<The eight-week quarantine/fallow period will go far towards achieving an 'Ich-free' environment'¦for a time. But as I think I have mentioned before'¦ This protozoan pest is so 'easily' introduced, even from non-organic and non-fish sources (e.g.- live rock, inverts/corals'¦even from using a net from another tank) that it is not realistic to expect to 'never' see it crop up again. Thus the importance to continue with proper quarantine, proper stocking levels/environmental conditions, biological controls (e.g. - cleaner shrimp/gobies), et al. With these considerations, I see no reason to 'stay away' from tangs'¦though I might consider a different specimen from the large and very 'twitchy/nervous' species you have selected'¦perhaps Acanthurus japonicus'¦or one of the commonly available Ctenochaetus species>> I really don't want to break down a 210 tank again! <<I'll bet!>> Thanks again. <<Always welcome>> Any chance of you going to MACNA? <<Indeed'¦have already made reservations and payment to attend>> I was thinking of going to Atlanta in September to go. <<Perhaps I will see you there>> Talk to you soon. Don V. <<Cheers mate. EricR>> R2: High pH And Hair Algae -- 11/17/07 Hi there again! <<Hello Kerstin>> Well, I hope we're making progress on her tank...I want to keep you updated, and I want to ask some questions as well. <<Cool'¦okay>> I think I may have figured out where the phosphates come from - tell me if you think I might be right. <<Alrighty>> I have made several batches of coral/reef food, using Eric Bornemann's recipe as a base. Included with the fresh seafood and ground up flake food and other assorted stuff are also frozen Mysis shrimps, daphnia, etc...all aquarium packs. <<Okay>> If I am supposed to rinse them before feeding them on an individual cube basis to get rid of the packaged water (I read it's a good source of phosphates), and I did not even thaw them before integrating them into the new mixture, then could that be the source of the phosphates? <<Is probable, yes>> Just a thought, because I can't see where else they might come from. <<Let's test and see to be sure, shall we? Thaw a chunk of the food preparation in a small container of tank water (just like you do when you feed) and then test that water for Phosphate. If there's a chance a chance the tank water will skew the test, then test 'before and after' adding the food stuff>> re the new skimmer - she started running my AquaC skimmer -- <<Excellent!>> collected 1/2 of a cup of "guck" the first night alone...she is absolutely happy that it's pulling this stuff out. <<Is helping'¦that is a certainty>> Between that, having a Poly-Filter pad in her little AquaClear filter, and the fact that she pulled quite a bit of the hair algae wherever she could, we'll see how her tank does...she really appreciates all the suggestions and is happier about her tank already. <<Very good to know>> Although, interestingly enough, when she tested her water in the evening after lights had been on all day (has done 3 5-gallon water changes in the last week), her pH is still running 8.8 - but it is staying stable, so is it something to worry about, or will it drop as the skimmer removes stuff from the water (don't know how that would happen)? <<The skimmer is not going to drop her pH'¦and yes, this reading if accurate is too high/worrisome. I seem to recall you stated before that you have validated this reading with more than one brand of test kit'¦if not please do so. Else'¦it is important to find and remedy the source/reason for this high pH reading (source water is prefiltered, yes?). Do revalidate the salt mix used'¦and stop adding any buffers if using these. And do make sure there isn't an unusual item/tank decoration that has been added to the tank that may be leaching/causing this spike in pH>> Thanks again for all your tremendous help, and we'll let you know what happens. <<Happy to assist'¦please do fix/let me know how things progress re the pH issue>> One positive thing <<Hey'¦I counted more than one! [grin]>> - I gave her a copy of CMA, and am loaning her fish books - she is going to research more on her new tank inhabitants once this problem is solved, since she has already decided to return the lawnmower blenny to the LFS to trade against something else. <<Very good'¦and do lead her here/to this site and teach her how to do keyword searches using the Google search tool>> Thanks, and I hope you're having a lovely weekend, Kerstin:-) <<Weekends are 'always' good, mate. Eric Russell>> Phosphate Leaching In Plastic Storage Vessel? -- 10/22/07 Hi Guys, <<Peter>> I recently bought a 30 gal plastic container from Lowe's. I started using this to store saltwater mixes for water changes. I have noticed that when I do phosphate tests on the water in the storage bin that phosphate levels up to 5 ppm are detected. The water used is from an RO/DI that gives a TDS reading of 0.00 and when phosphates are checked directly out of the RO/DI the readings are 0.00ppm. Are the new storage containers leaching phosphates into the water? <<If these are tests on 'water only' in the container (no salt mix introduced- ever), yes, your tests seem to indicate so>> If so, how do I prevent that or are there different containers that I should be using? <<You don't state what you bought...but I know many hobbyists who use the Rubbermaid® containers with no ill effect. Another option is to purchase vessels made purposely for holding 'potable' water...I use a couple Polyethylene drums purchased from USPlastics.com >> Thanks, Peter <<Regards, EricR>> Re: Phosphate Leaching In Plastic Storage Vessel? -- 10/22/07 Thanks so much for the quick reply. <<Quite welcome>> I found a clear polyethylene drum that I will test under the same conditions. <<Excellent>> I believe the container I was using was indeed a Rubbermaid. Thanks, Peter <<Cheers, EricR>> Phosphates in Pet Fish Food... 7/12/07 I have a 155 gal reef tank I have fed my fish only frozen mysis shrimp foods for years and about two months ago I bought a pellet food to feed with the frozen foods, <Good, variety is important with our critters diets.> the pellet foods say they have 0.8% phosphorus, can that make phosphate levels go up I have read that foods other than frozen can do so. <Many foods have phosphates in them which yet another reason not to overfeed. If you want to get down to it, rotting food is just another ammonia/nutrient source. It may also scare a few aquarists to know that most aquarium foods have some level of copper in them. Again the key here is not to overfeed, and with frozen foods do not put the defrosting water into the tank along with the food, rinse with fresh RO water several times.> My phosphate levels use to be zero now they read about 0.25, <Not overly alarming.> but I had not checked them for about four or five months until now. <If this a reef tank I would encourage at least bi-weekly testing.> Should I stop feeding my fish with pellets or do you think the phosphate levels just go up on there own, <All foods are a source of dissolve nutrients, so the question becomes how much should you be feeding? Only you can answer that question to suit your tank.> my tank has been set up for about five years I have a wet dry filter <That could be a source of your nutrient problems too.> with the skimmer built in for a tank up to four hundred gal. My tank is not over stocked with fish, my corals are doing great, but I have read that you want your phosphates to be zero. Thank you. <As cliché as this sounds, dilution is the solution to pollution! Keep up with he water changes and consider testing your source water for phosphates as well, if you're using an RODI or just RO filter even it may be time to replace the inserts. Good Luck! Adam J.> I hope I am wrong about my Lace Rock -- 06/29/07 Hey Guys, <Jim> I am hoping you will send me off in another direction, but any help at this point would be great. I have an algae issue (green hair / filament algae). I do weekly H20 changes with RO/DI water. I also "vacuum, brush and pull" the algae off the rocks 2x a week. <No fun...> I have great flow (20x) I also "brush off rocks to make sure...(desperate?) <Maybe> I also have tested my fresh and salt mix. All are 0 nitrate and 0 po4. My tank test 0 nitrate and 0 or very close on po4. I took my h20 into LFS to confirm and they did. I have a refug. and a res. with a protein skimmer. I have changed my lights (4 halide 150w 1400k). I am running with phospholock (sp? ferric hydroxide?) etc. I don't "feed" my corals etc. I only have 12 small fish in a 265 tank I am running a protein skimmer and clean it every other day. I may not have as many cleaner crew as a LFS would recommend, but they are breeding and seem to be doing fine. I have 2 tangs and a lawn mower blenny. I need to scrub my overflows daily because the algae is clogging them. I need to clean my sponge filter 2x a week because it is clogged with algae. I may need a shrink soon.... <Heeeeee! Maybe one with long arms who can help pull the algae!> I have a old live rock (that sat out for a year) from my old tank (50 or so lbs) with 60 that I got when I set this up and about 90 lbs of lace rock which sat in my old tank for 2-3 years as well (and then out for a year). <... I see> I had an algae problem in my old tank, but it was pieced together and I figured was due to poor set up / maint. <Mmm, maybe just one aspect...> Given all this...Could it have been the lace rock? <Yes> I put a piece in a bit of clean salt water and it seems to have raised the PO4, but test kits are not extremely accurate. I am out of other ideas. I hope I am wrong as I have the whole thing nicely strapped into a PVC frame that looks great and a bunch of SPS and LPS coral that is thriving when the algae keeps off of it. I really don't want to have to take it all apart and am not sure how I would even start doing it. But, I also can't spend 2 nights a week cleaning up the algae. <Yikes.... I'd be pulling, replacing> Any help would be great. The tank was "fine" for about the first 6 months but the last have been a real challenge. Oh and I add purple up <Oh! I'd abandon this product as well... More trouble than it's worth...> to try and get the good pink stuff thriving. Every thing looks healthy, SPS is spreading and growing, LPS looks good. Soft are spreading, xenia is the only thing that is not spreading (I am glad). Again thanks. <Mmm, well... there are even more countervailing strategies than the ones you have aptly applied here (refugium, skimming, chemical filtrants...), but I would remove the Lace rock, quit the Purple Up... and you should see, realize almost immediate improvement. Bob Fenner> Re: I hope I am wrong about my Lace Rock 6/29/07 Thanks Bob. Does this process make sense? <Let's see...> Pull Lace Rock and stop purple up. See if issue goes away. If it does then Add new Live Rock to replace Lace Rock? <I wouldn't wait m'self> How do I make sure the LR is fully cured? <See WWM re: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marinvind1.htm> I could add a piece at a time or keep it in a tub with a power head for a while. I know I have a good bio load in the tank but I am not sure what impact adding 50 - 70 lbs of live rock will have (except to my wallet..) <One approach> I have a water making station I could put some live rock in, but it is only a 35gal tub. <Big enough...> Thanks for your support. I look to your site often. <I as well... perhaps a bit too often and long! Cheers, BobF> High Phosphate in RO water 8/12/05 Hello everyone, I'm a newbie to saltwater and I recently set up a 155 gallon reef tank. In this time I've had trouble controlling my phosphate levels. Here are my specs: 1. 155 gal tank 2. Lightly stocked tank with 1 purple tang, 1 six line wrasse, 1 clown, 1 lawnmower blenny, 2 cleaner shrimps. 3. 2 mushrooms, 2 rocks of yellow polyps, 1 green star polyp. 4. Two overflow boxes, aqua C ev-180 skimmer which produces lots of crap daily. I use RO/DI water weekly and perform a 10 % water change every week. My RO system is from Coralife-pure-flo. 4.All water parameters are normal except the phosphate level which is a whopping 1 ppm with the Salifert test! I thought for the last three months that the levels were high because I was feeding too much but I wasn't. Sometimes I would actually skip a day so my fish could graze on the little hair algae I have in the tank. I then thought that my test kit was wrong, so I bought a new Salifert test kit. Anyways, I decided to test my RO/DI water without salt straight from the tube and the phosphate levels measured 1ppm! I then checked my TAP water from my faucet and it tested only 0.1 ppm. I retested all my different waters and the results were the same. I came to the conclusion that it seems like my unit is leaching out phosphate, is this possible? The RO/DI unit is very new, I bought it 5 months ago and according to the instructions, the pre-filter needs to be changed in a months time and the membrane should last another 6 months. So I still have time for change. Any thoughts? Nilesh <This is an easy one! Activated carbon is made porous in the manufacturing process by exposing it to phosphoric acid. If the carbon is not rinsed, it will leach phosphates in high concentration, much of which will pass through the RO membrane. If you really want a shock, test the water coming directly out of the carbon block pre-filter! The simplest option is to replace the pre-filters with good quality aquarium brand (something other than Coralife!). Prefilters should be changed every six months to a year, but the membrane itself should last several years. Best Regards. AdamC.> Phosphates in tap water 9/2/06 Hi again, I've been trying to get to the bottom of my phosphate problem and have narrowed it down to my tap water. What is weird is that when tested as fresh water it tests at about .03 on the Salifert Kit but when mixed with IO it tests only as traces of PO4 as saltwater. Does this make sense? Also, I do use a DI and results are pretty much the same. Do you think that using Polyfilter or phosphate sponge in one of the DI chambers would be useful? Thanks for all your help, past and present. Mordy Mordy Eisenberg <<Mordy: If your RO/DI unit is working properly and you have a TDS meter, you TDS reading should be 000. At that point, you shouldn't have phosphates. If you have too much phosphates in your tank, growing Chaetomorpha algae in the sump, can help. Best of luck, Roy>> High Phosphate Levels 10/23/06 <Hello Andy> Hi Ladies and Gents! I'm not sure how to classify this email really. It's a bit of a 'symptom' with a 'problem' with a question for a 'solution'... I think... I have a 30g tank with around 60lbs of Fiji Live Rock. It's about a year old. I have a small internal filter containing wool only, for mechanical filtration, a couple of MaxiJet powerheads and a thin (less and an inch) layer of aragonite and crushed coral substrate. <First question. Are you changing the floss weekly? If not, do so.> My levels are pretty good on the whole: Ammonia: 0, Nitrite: 0, Nitrate: 0, pH: 8.3, Salinity: 1.024. I do a 20% water change each week and use RO water which I have tested for Phosphate. I use Tropic Marin Pro Reef Salt. <OK> My livestock is about 30 Turbo Snails, about 20 - 25 Red Leg Dwarf Hermits, 4 small Feather Dusters and a pair of Clarkii Clownfish (female is around 3" and the male is around 1.5"). All the livestock seems active, happy, healthy and feeds well. <Don't believe you need 30 Turbo Snails in there, 10 would be more than enough. Eventually, some of these may die due to starvation, causing more problems.> Recently I have had a problem with algae. My lovely rockwork has grown a thin film of very bright green algae (not the usual dark green I've seen before) and there are signs of algae on the glass and the substrate. I have a very high level of Phosphate in the tank (1ppm!) and I'm struggling to work out where it's come from (me, I know!) I have 96w of T5 fluorescent lighting which is one actinic and one 10000k bulb. These have an 11 hour photo period per day. <May want to cut that down to 8 hours and see if you have a reduction of algae growth. If there is indirect lighting (outside light) hitting the tank, 10 hours isn't necessary with the animals you presently have.> I realize (through reading on here and books etc) that Phosphate is caused by - amongst other things - over-feeding and over-supplementing. I never supplemented much (the occasional 5 - 10 drops of Salifert All-in-One, Salifert Coral Food for the feather dusters and a couple of drops (literally) of Salifert Coral Calcium every week or so) but have now cut that out completely since about 3 weeks ago. I have always done my water changes religiously but am at a loss how my Phosphate got so high (I don't use carbon anywhere which I believe CAN leech Phosphate). <Cheaper brands of carbon are known for this. You may want to try a Poly Filter in your system. Just hanging it in the tank will help if you have no filter to use.> I have tried suspending a filter-sock with Tropic Marin Elimi-Phos in the tank, but that lowered my pH overnight (down to 7.9 the following day - even by midday it hadn't risen!). I then tried Salifert Phosphate Killer in the sock and even though it didn't lower my pH, it didn't lower the Phosphate either! So now my levels all look great again, apart from the Phosphate... <I like the RowaPhos product myself. Might want to try this.> I am planning on doing a 75% water change this weekend - are there any potential problems with doing that? <I would do no more than 50%.> I guess my main question is, what do you think I can do to lower the Phosphate in my tank? I am very short of space, so a sump or refugium with Caulerpa is out of the question I'm afraid. <Just rubberbanding a hunk of Chaeto to a small piece of live rock in the tank will aid in phosphate removal.> My other question is: how much/often should I feed the Clarkiis? I'm worried about starving them, but am always careful not to 'overfeed'. The trouble is, they're so greedy, they'll just eat and eat. <Many people eat more than they need to. A couple of small feeding twice a day is plenty. The clowns should look full without bulging stomachs. Keep in mind that fish do not have large stomachs.> I've heard the usual "as much as they'll take in 5 minutes" but that's so vague it doesn't really help me. I could probably get half a tub of food in there in that time and they'd scoff it all I expect. I feed them a mixture of Tetra Prima and the occasional bit of chopped Mysis! Given that Tetra Prima comes in granule-form, is there a rough amount of granules I should be feeding? 1ml of granules in a test-kit-measurer? That's actually quite a lot of granules! Random question I know, but I'm struggling here! <Feed sparingly twice daily. If the fish seem to lose interest in the food, do not feed anymore. I would put repetitive small amounts in the tank, if they consume all, add another small amount. Not good to put all the food in at once with a couple of fish present. I'm not saying to go buy more fish either, as your tank will become too small for the clowns in the near future as the clarkii's can attain a length of up to six inches. When buying food, also look at the phosphate content of the food. There are dry foods that contain quite a bit of phosphate in them. You did not mention use of a protein skimmer. Using one will definitely help your phosphate problem. There are good hang-on models such as AquaC that are very efficient and trouble free.> Anyway - sorry to ramble on - any help/advice would be much appreciated! Many thanks! <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Andy Re: Too much MH lighting? 11/26/07 Dear Justin, <Hello again, George> Thanks for the fast response. <No problem, glad to help> A quick follow up to my lighting questions. <Ok> You got me thinking about phosphates! I've noticed that slight hair algae has started, and I'm using mechanical as well as maintenance measures to control. But I wonder if recent increase in feeding frozen marine mix and krill mashed up to a bubble coral and some brains, in addition to the zooplankton and rotifers may be overpowering. <It very well could be> So if you would be so kind, set me straight. How much invert feeding, for say 200 gal. should I be doing. I use a combo. of phyto-feast, and sometimes Roti-feast, and Arti-pods. This doesn't include the meaty bits I mentioned. The instructions say "1-2 teaspoons per 100 gallons. I think I may have been feeding too much because I was worried about the bubble. <How often are you adding the liquid phyto/zooplankton mixture? I would recommend dosing the tank with this 2-3 times a week, 2-3 teaspoons total should be enough.> All the reading on the site indicates that unless the bubble coral eats daily, it will starve to death in a year. <Mmm, I don't believe this to be the case. 2-3 meaty feedings a week should be fine> And if so, is just a small portion for it sufficient. <Should be> Any insight you can provide on control of phosphates, with a focus on the feeding side of things would be great. Thanks again. George <Hope this info helps you out, George. Feel free to drop another line if you've got further questions! -JustinN> Re: Too much MH lighting? 11/26/07 Thanks, Justin. I will scale feeding down a bit along with lights and let you know what happens. Regards, George <Sounds good, George. Keep us posted, shoot a line back if you've got anymore questions. We're here to help. -JustinN> Found where my phosphates are coming from!!! hi bob <<Actually, it's JasonC today, how may I help?>> I have finally found where my phosphates are coming from. I have a 130 gallon reef tank lots of live rock ,good skimmer, a refugium with nice Caulerpa growing I have very few fish ,and sometimes don't feed for weeks. Why you ask? Because I had so much hair algae growing I let the fish graze on it. My phosphates were always around .25mg-l.I have a ro-di unit with new filters in. I had no idea where the phos. was coming from. Then a friend told me that his calcium reactor was giving off a large amount of phosphates from the dissolving aragonite. Does aragonite contain phosphates I asked myself. Then another friend told me that he used a product called Aragamilk and that he also saw phos. levels rise. My conclusion is that aragonite or at lease certain brands release phosphates. <<That is it... certain brands, but even so... most corals have some phosphate fixed within their skeletons so that later when they become gravel, that is released as trace amounts. Not typical that aragonite should release massive quantities of phosphates.>> So I had a problem because of an old trick my LFS told me .He said that when you fill a bucket or a tub with your ro water to pour a bag of aragonite in the bottom. The ro water comes out at a ph of 6.5 so it will dissolve the aragonite and voila!!! instant buffered water for water changes or toping off. <<Not sure I agree with this technique. The process described is similar to how a calcium reactor works except there's one thing missing - the CO2; no catalyst to dissolve the aragonite. And these typically recirculate for days. So... any alkalinity or buffers obtained from this method would be in small amounts.>> I have been using this method for a year but not anymore because I tested the water and it contains .2mg-l of $%?$ PHOSPHATES. I have a very intense lighting system with good ventilation in the hood, so I top off about 5 gallons a day so you can imagine the amount of phos I was adding in a week. I also cheeked if the ro water contained any phosphates and the test was nil. <<Ah...>> Have you heard of anybody doing this? <<Doing which? Having problems with leached phosphates - yes.>> did they have problems with phosphates? <<Not really.>> What do you think about it. <<Well, two things... I would start by just using straight RO/DI for top-off. If you want buffers in that water, add baking soda or Seachem Reef Builder. Then... add some macroalgae to the tank to compete with the hair algae.>> Would love your feedback. Richard <<Cheers, J -- >> Leaking Phosphate... 3/25/03 Hi Phil<Hey Tony!> I wanted to let you know what I found out.<Let's have it!> I mixed up some salt water and tested it for phosphates it tested 0ppm then I broke some of the fingers off the corals and added them to the mix. 24 hours later I tested the water it read .6 if I bleach the corals and rinse very well of course do you think that will help or is there some kind of solution I can soak them in.<Well if it truly is the corals leaking then bleach may not solve the problem. Bleach kills living things and can clean away the dead stuff, but it may just do more harm then good. Head out to the LFS and grab yourself a small AquaClear filter. Add a PolyFilter and you are in business. Remember to change the filter often and it should help with the phosphate.> THANKS TONY<Hope this helps and good luck!! Phil> Re: phosphate in my water I have had a recent algae bloom in my reef tank and have been searching for a solution. I have been doing regular water changes, shortened my light cycle, not overfeeding, changed salt brands, etc. I know that one of the problems that may be adding to this is the amount of phosphate in the water. I tested the RO water I use and it contains 1 ppm. Is this my problem? What is an acceptable level to have in my tank? <This phosphate is contributing to your algae blooms. When you mix your new salt water consider adding a poly filter to it and let it sit a few days before you put it in the tank as this will remove the phosphates. Cody> Thanks for the help, I love the site! -Danny Controlling Phosphates 7/23/03 Hi Antony, I need your opinion again. <always welcome my friend> I'm dosing Kalkwasser 2.5 gallons a day in my 250 gallons FOWLR tank and dosing Seachem Reef Calcium twice a week for coralline algae growth; in those days I stop dosing Kalk. Doing so my Ca level has gone from 450 mg up to 470 mg. How can I continue with Kalkwasser without raising Ca level too much? <you might ease off of the Sea Chem calcium for starters if the corallines have been sufficiently stimulated> Moreover I've another great problem: my phosphates level is 1.50mg/l. <yikes!> What can you tell me about ROWAPHOS or Seachem PHOSGUARD? Which is better? <Sea Chem has a very fine name brand... but the ROWAPHOS has shown tremendous results> Can they solve my phos problem? <both only treat the symptom (phosphate) and not the problem. I would not advise using much of either, but instead... identify where your phosphates are being imported from (source water, foods, etc) and screen it there first (better prefiltered FW, change of food, etc). One of the most common mistakes aquarists make which allows phosphate to accumulate is the thawing of frozen food in water and then dumping that water into the tank with the meaty food. Its a horrible habit and one that leads to phosphate accumulation and nuisance algae growth in general. Always decant the water away... or better yet, thaw frozen food in the refrigerator without water. The lack of water and the slow thaw will improve the nutritional value.> Thanks a lot Best regards, Lorenzo in Italy <with kind regards, Anthony> -Fun with phosphates!- Hey guys, great site! I'm having a terrible time w/phosphates in one of my tanks. Please help! Set up: 45 gal. corner tank w/ Penguin 600 power head for extra water flow; standard CaribSea aragonite sand, 3 in. base Filtration: Fluval 404 w/ standard foam filters, trays are packed w/ceramic biomedia 60 lbs. live rock Small Aqua Clear powerfilter for extra flow, mechanical filtration, oxygenation Inhabitants: 2 Brazilian Seahorses hippocampus reidi 2 emerald crabs, 3 peppermint shrimp, various hermits, sand sifting star, 2 green lettuce nudibranchs Parameters: pH-8.2; NH, NO3-nil; NO4-3ppm; CA-400ppm; Alkalinity-normal; SG-1.022; temp.-77 F PO4-3!!! <3 ppm or .3ppm?!> Water source: 5-stage RO, with add-on DI cartridge (this was the 1st thing I tested, there is no PO4 present in the water source) Background: I have had phosphate problems w/this tank before. Problem was (I thought) the water source, hence the elaborate home system I purchased. Got the PO4 levels down to .15 through very frequent water changes (10% 3 times a week) but now they're back up. Need to find the source. I'm feeding 1 Hikari Mysis cube per day, which seems appropriate. Only source I can think of is dissolved organics. <Make sure you drain the juice in that shrimp. You may want to seek out Piscine Energetics Mysis as it is a much better quality shrimp.> Tank is not drilled, so my main question is should I invest in an over-the-tank protein skimmer? <I would recommend one.> p.s. I also have a 55 mini-reef that is not experiencing these problems. <I would wager that the packing water in the food is the source, unless your phosphate kit is wrong. In the meantime, run plenty of phosphate removing resin. Good luck! -Kevin> Thankfully PO4 in Frozen food -An Informal Experiment >Hi Marina/Bob, >>Hello Jorell. Marina today. >I hope you guys are well... >>Indeed, and yourself as well. >I do not know if you should publish this as it may be half$$@& job, but, I just read something on the FAQ's just now talking about draining frozen foods to lower the risk of contaminating the water. About a couple of years ago, I had a algae bloom in my tank and was trying to source where the PO4 was coming from (I found out eventually it was the bio load, duuhhh, missed the obvious). Any way I started testing various things including the frozen food I had been feeding my fish by diluting it in a fixed measure of water. While I know every batch may be different I did this over a few months and averaged the results so I have some kind of guideline to go by. >>Interesting, and I like the idea. >I used to feed my fish a mix of: 1) Hikari - Mysid Shrimp 2) Hikari - Brine Shrimp 3) Sally's Spirulina enriched Brine Shrimp 4) A mixed frozen pack of Shrimp Mussel and squid. I will have to find my book where I have the (brand name of the Mixed food pack) and figures, but I found that, the Sally's Brine Shrimp had the highest Po4 content followed by the Hikari Mysid shrimp and surprisingly the Hikari - Brine Shrimp had very little PO4, all tests were done with a Salifert test kit. >>Yes, if you do find your results it would be interesting to see. Thanks for the input! Marina >Regards, Jorell -Frozen food juice, does it do a body good?- While reading the daily FAQs this morning, I came across a response by Kevin to a phosphate question that suggests draining the juice from the Hikari Mysis shrimp the person is feeding the fish. <Well, if the incredibly handsome and intelligent Kevin said it, then you better believe it. ;) > I feed my fish different foods but one type is Aqua-Yums Mysis shrimp. Is the draining of the juice an across the board technique or just for Hikari brand foods. <It's always recommended that you ditch the packing juice.> I had never considered draining the juice before and was also wondering if this techniques is supposed to be performed on all foods? <It would be a good idea, but I've been a non-juice drainer for years and have had no problem. That said, I don't use Hikari Mysis shrimp. I believe in that question, the aquarist couldn't figure out where the po4 was coming from, and he had apparently done everything right except that he fed an entire cube per day.> My water parameters have always been acceptable NH3 and NO2 0, NO3 10, ALK 10, Ca 400, pH 8.2, temp 79-80, and salinity 1.023 - 1.024 but I don't test for phosphates or any of the other more specialized parameters as I just keep fish and a few crabs. <There's nothing toxic about phosphate to your critters, it's just an algae fuel and a problem for people with calcium depositing inverts. Have your LFS test your tank for phosphate, you could be on your way to an algae bloom and not even know it! -Kevin> Thanks, Ray Mysterious Phosphate Reading Hi again, <Hi there! Scott F. with you today!> Thanks a lot for answering my earlier question about fish stocking. This question has every professional in my area stumped and I've tried everything and don't have a clue. My phosphate levels are through the roof (3.0) with no apparent reason. I have only had the tank(60G) running for 17 days, I have one Chromis and some crushed coral but nothing else. I have tested the water supply and my salt mixture and the phosphate is below 0.1. I had been adding brine shrimp into the Chromis' diet but have stopped that for a few days now. My supplier suggested cleaning the filter(fluval404) in case something was blocked in there- it didn't help, I also cleaned my skimmer. If it is important I had a white film on the inside of my tank which I cleaned off the best I could (in one of your questions it said that it might have been caused by a ph buffer). If it matters I used powdered bacteria, Nitrivec and Amtrite down (ammonia/nitrite reduction stuff) to prepare the tank. All other tests are fine (ph is 8.1 and nitrite is undetectable) my supplier did all the other tests and said none was a problem. Also I tried a 10% water change last week and 35% this week with no results. This problem is no drama at the moment (I wasn't planning to put coral or anything in for quite a while) but my supplier recommends not to put live rock in until I solve this problem, which I was planning to do. Sorry if this question is a bit long but I thought it would be better to have the full story. Thanks heaps for your time - Ryan <Well, Ryan- phosphate is one of those things that comes from a variety of sources, among them foods, additives, and even source water. Relatively new systems have "immature" nutrient processing and export systems, so nitrates and phosphates commonly accumulate. This is a fairly high reading, though, so I'm sort of wondering if your source water contains measurable phosphate levels...Do check that out, and consider using RO/DI or other purified water sources. I also am curious if the powdered bacteria culture contained some culture medium or other food source which may be contributing to the reading. Still another thought is the substrate material that you are using...Some grades of crushed coral may have impurities in them- a long shot, but something to think about. I'd try to eliminate some of these as sources, and then look at means to control phosphates, such as continuous use of chemical filtration media, like activated carbon and/or PolyFilter, or even some of the dedicated phosphate removing media, like PhosBan. PhosGuard, and Rowaphos. Look beyond the obvious, and do consider one of the aforementioned media as an adjunct to your control efforts! Good luck! Regards, Scott F.> Phosphate in Nori and Kombu? No worries 2/16/04 Hi, I have just acquired a Scopas Tang, for which I have bought some Nori, and kombu. My worry is that in feeding these, I will probably be introducing phosphate into the tank, am I right that these will contain phosphate? <no worries at all... nominal indeed. The real problem with phosphate laced foods is from terrestrial farmed/grown produce like lettuce/spinach, etc which is grown with heavy doses of phosphate and nitrate based fertilizers> Is there something I can do to reduce the phosphate content of these foods before feeding? <focus instead on utilizing or exporting it in the aquarium. Other sources of phosphate will enter and need addressed anyways. Use of calcium hydroxide is great for this (precips phosphate)> Also, can the kombu be boiled to soften it without destroying nutrients it contains? <like our/any foods... it will destroy some/many nutrients. If you must, briefly blanch it instead> Also, I bought this stuff at the Asian market, how can I know it has no added preservatives or other chemicals? <honest list of ingredients is the best I/we can hope for> Finally, do you have any other suggestions for a balanced diet for a Scopus Tang? At present, along with the Nori and kombu, it gets the mussel and clam fed to the other fish. <having a variety of 6-10 foods of random origin and processing will likely be fine (FD, Frozen, pellet, fresh). Focus as you have done on a heavy green component... and do consider growing some Gracilaria (AKA "Tang Heaven" from IPSF.com) in a refugium. Anthony> Phosphate, Calcium & Alkalinity Hello Guys: Could you please try and help me with a problem that developed suddenly in my aquarium? I have read the FAQs and want to make sure I am pursuing the proper course of action. Aquarium is one year old. Tank is 240 gallons with 200 lbs LR. Sump is 15 gallons with Euro-Reef CS8-3 skimmer which flows into 100 gallon non-lighted refugium with DSB of 8 inches aragonite. I follow good husbandry schedule with 10% weekly water changes, activated carbon run in sump continuously and changed monthly.<Sounds like a nice system.> I use Salifert test kits (test once per week) yielding the following range of results: NH4 0.25 ppm, NO2 Undetectable, NO3 2.5 - 5.0 ppm, Ca 380 - 420, Alk 3.0 - 4.0 meq/L and PO4 Undetectable. Electronic pH meter ranges 8.17 -8.28 and electronic salinity ranges 1.0240 -1.0250. A 4 stage RO unit with Instant Ocean salt mix is used for make up water. B-Ionic 2 part balanced additive dispensed over 8 hour period daily and evaporation top-off via reef filler pump at 1.5 gallons daily with RO water. I am feeding fish once daily and decanted the frozen food. A "live" commercial brand phytoplankton was administered 4 times a week. Everything was running fine. <I am very suspect of an ammonia reading above zero. I would compare this with another kit. Otherwise, it sounds like all is well.> I tried a different "live" commercial brand of phytoplankton for one week and my phosphate increased to 3.0 ppm. My alkalinity increased to 5.71 meq/L and calcium 450 ppm. The pH increased to 8.48. What I am thinking is that the high phosphate level has inhibited the calcification process thus causing the excess amount of calcium and alkalinity in the water column which in turn is driving up the pH. What do you think? <Sounds logical, but I wouldn't expect the change to be so dramatic or fast.> Could the commercial phytoplankton have caused such a dramatic increase in phosphate in such a short time period? <Yes. One brand in particular takes care to was the phyto free of fertilizers. Other brands may not.> Does the calcification process shut down so quickly in response to the elevated phosphate? <This is the part I am suspect of. Phosphate will slow calcification, and my do so quickly, but I am suspect of the rapid rise in Ca and Alk.> I have done 10% water changes every third day for one week but the phosphate level still remains at 3.0 ppm. I stopped the B-Ionic dosing and the calcium and alkalinity are slowly decreasing. The RO water and Instant Ocean mixed with RO water both have undetectable phosphate levels. Why do think the phosphate level in the tank remains so high? Thank you very much for your help. I am worried about my live stock. Joe <I would continue this regime until the phosphate decreases, or consider a commercial phosphate remover. Seek out Iron based products (red color) like RowaPhos, Phosban or Salifert and avoid alumina (white color) based products. Since the introduction of the phosphate seems to be a "one shot" event and not a chronic problem, you should be able to get it under control easily. Good luck. AdamC.> Phosphate and phytoplankton Hello Adam C: << Adam C is out right now, so I'm jumping in. >> Thank you for the help. I have added both Rowa-Phos and a Poly Filter to the sump. In addition, I will continue to do the 10% water changes every third day until the phosphates become undetectable again and then I will remove the Rowa-Phos and Poly Filter. In your response, you stated one "live" phytoplankton brand has good quality control to remove phosphates and nitrates, is this DTs phytoplankton? << I don't know whom he was referring to, but I think Mountain Corals and Phycopure are both great as well as DTs. >> DTs was the brand I was using with no elevation in phosphates. The brand which caused my phosphates to become elevated was Instant Algae manufactured by Reed Mariculture in California. Please let me know what you think. << I also like Reed Mariculture and Florida Aqua Farms and I love Brine Shrimp Direct's Tahitian Blend Algae. >> Thanks again for your insight. Joe << Blundell >> Kent carbon, Phosphates and algae Dear Sir's, I have had an algae problem since setting up my reef tank 8 months ago, mainly hair algae (the usual I know). I think they call it hair algae because when you get plagued with it you pull your hair out!<HA!!> The tank is 250uk gallons and has around 120-130kg of live rock 3x 250watt 14k metal halide lamps around 6 months old. I use Rowaphos continually. The phosphate measures 0 with the new high accuracy Deltec test kit. Nitrate also measures 0. I have used Kent reef carbon since setting up my aquarium. I use instant ocean salt and have an AquaMedic 1000 calcium reactor set to 6.7ph and about 2 drips per second effluent. Lots of water flow with 2 Tunze 6100's, all top off through Kalkwasser stirrer with RO. Water changes, about 7% per week. Now, my question, sorry to rattle on....<No Problem.> Just recently I decided to test the carbon for phosphates against the AquaMedic brand. I put a few pellets of each make, 1 week old carbon into some RO water. The Kent carbon went off the scale on the Deltec test kit to around 0.6ppm while the AquaMedic tested around 0.2. I am concerned that this is fuelling my algae bloom and I am not reading phosphate in the tank as the algae is utilizing it. What do you think?<It absolutely could be the situation.> Does this sound like it could be the problem?<Yep!!! Your testing methods was a good step to take.> Any information will be of a great help....I looked under the different carbon topics but couldn't find anything of this nature. Please let me know if you would like anymore information. Kind regards, Lee <Lee, There are carbons that contain phosphate in their molecular structure. Is there any reason why you are running carbon in your reef tank. If you have a sufficient protein skimmer then you won't need to use carbon. I would also recommend testing for silicates. They can cause algae blooms also. Remove the carbon and physically remove the algae and see what happens. Good Luck MikeB.> Phosphate Hi guys, first time writing, great site.<Thank you> I have a reef/fish aquarium that is about 6 months old. Things have been going pretty well, but I have lost a couple of corals and the occasional fish. The system is 55 gallons, 100 lbs live rock, eight small fish (2 gobies, 2 Chromis, 2 clowns, lawn mower blenny, six line wrasse) 4 different kinds of shrimp, two anemones. Corals include a bubble, frog spawn (two kinds), a sun coral 'bunch', couple of small Acroporas, a medium trumpet, a small gorgonian, and the usual assortment of hermit crabs and snails (~25 each). As I mentioned, I have lost a couple of corals, an elegance (wish I had read your website first) parts of the frog spawn and a banded shrimp. The trumpet isn't looking good either. Fish seem to be doing fine. I feed the tank blended clams, mussels, shrimp and fish (all fresh, then frozen, about a ½ teaspoon couple of times a day).<Way too much food.> I also add Cyclop-eeze <Are you referring to "Cyclop-eeze? If you are, this is a very good food source by itself for corals.> about every other day. <What does your lighting consist of, Nick? This may be part of the problem in losing corals.> My test results have generally been within the parameters I have been reading about - no ammonia or nitrate spikes, no algae problems. I did a test last week after a hiatus of about 3 weeks and found my phosphorous at 6 ppm! I use well water that tests (Reef Lab dropper kit) at about 0.2 ppm phosphate. Could the phosphates in the well water be building up? Any other ideas, do I need to go to RO water? <I'm assuming you also have an algae bloom. With phosphate levels that high out of the tap, it can certainly lead to this. Do you do a 10% water change weekly? Yes, I do think you should go to RO water or a de-ionized water. James (Salty Dog)> <<Groan... the question James...>> Fighting Phosphates and Keeping Water Quality High! Hi Scott, <Hello again!> Thanks for the response. On the phosphate test kit reading, I said "maybe slightly" because the color difference between the "no reading" and the "first reading" is extremely hard to tell apart. <I understand...Many of the kits we use can be a bit hard to read the results on!> Sorry, I'm not at home, so I don't have the brand of kit in front of me or what the "first reading" measurement is. If only a slight amount of phosphate can make a difference, I probably need to get another kit. Any good recommendations? <For real accuracy, you could get a Merck phosphate test kit, but they are rather pricey. The Salifert, LaMotte, and Hach lines are good, too.> I also didn't mention that I cut the feedings back to every 2 days out of 3. <Well, don't starve your fish, but certainly do feed carefully when you do. Your continued careful husbandry will get you through this. I like to be habitual in maintenance, doing the same routine regularly, adjusting if required, but otherwise being relentless. Consistency is a good thing. Develop and maintain those good habits!> On the carbon (charcoal is a little old school), I've used Black Diamond and Kent in the last 2 months. I've used ChemiPure in the past. Any recommendations for carbon? I certainly don't want any that will leach phosphates. <Both the brands that you mention are fine, IMO. I alternate between Seachem Matrix Carbon and Rowa Carbon, myself, and get very good results.> I'm also using Kent salt. I think I remember some folks questioning it's quality. Any personal thoughts there too? Thanks, John <I like many Kent products, but I have not used their salt. I've used Tropic Marin for many years, and have just stuck with it. You might want to check with your fellow hobbyists to see what kind of results they are getting with this mix. Whatever brand you settle on, I'd stay with it if you get good results. Consistency is so important, IMO!> Leaching of Phosphates Good evening crew. <Good afternoon> I wanted to run a theory by you guys. I have a green hair algae issue in my 29gal marine tank. I've discovered the problem to be excess phosphate. Phosphate levels are around .6ppm. I tested for nitrates, but they come up around 0ppm. I use DI water only in my tank and phosphate testing of the water of course comes up negative. I do however have a single piece of reddish colored lava rock in my tank and browsing through the FAQ sections leads me to believe this could be the culprit (the algae grows most prolific on this rock.... more so than my live rock) I will remove the rock. Do you think the lava rock has been leaching phosphates because I can't think of any other way they are getting into my system? Thanks a million, you guys are fantastic. <Eric, phosphates can also be introduced by certain foods, and most activated carbons will leach phosphates, especially the cheaper brands. If you are using carbon, I would switch to a product like Chemi-Pure. James (Salty Dog)><<Uh, the question James... Yes, this rock, and most |
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