Re: Setting up a new tank 05/31/2008
Many thanks Andrew!
<<Hello again Andrea>>
Just one thing for my peace of mind.
You suggested:
"<<Your best bet is to cycle the tank by adding a small - medium sized raw (uncooked, no preservatives) shrimp or prawn, wrapped up in fine mesh material, drop this in the tank, and monitor the water. This will rot away and produce the much needed ammonia. When the ammonia reaches 4ppm on the test kit, remove the wrapped up carcass as its job is done. This is one of the spikes which is commonly referred too in cycling. When the ammonia spikes, nitrites starts to be generated which will convert the ammonia, and cause the ammonia to drop back down to zero. Now, the nitrite will spike and then nitrate will start to form, which will convert the nitrite and take the nitrite level down to zero. Finally, nitrate will spike, and eventually fall down to around 5 - 10ppm. At this point, when its stayed this way for a week, your cycle is done, and you can do a nice large 50% water change. That's the cycle in a small nutshell>>"
We followed your suggestion - added the raw prawn (actually it was just the head because the prawns my hubby brought home were huge!) and 12 hours later I almost had a nervous breakdown when I got up and noticed the tank had gone hazy. I'm hoping that's normal. It has a slight rotting smell to it too - again I hope that's normal?
<<He he he....Yes, its normal>>
Is there a rough guideline to how long this spike will take? Like ... I would worry we may need to vacate the family room ... :o)
<<It will probably take about a week for the ammonia to get up to 4ppm on the test kit.>>
Regards
Andrea (total novice)
South Australia

Re: Setting up a new tank 06/02/2008
Thank you again Andrew ... what a legend! The ammonia this morning was at ... well 2.0 or 4.0 depending on what the light is like. So we're getting there. The pH has changed from 8.2 to 7.8 ... is this normal as the ammonia rises?
<<I would not worry too much at all about pH for the time being. This will more than likely be rectified when a large water change is carried out after the cycle. Even then, if that does not rectify it, then there are plenty of methods to be used to sort the problem out>>
I've been prowling the site and there's lots of info there but I'm loaded with questions I just don't seem to get a clear answer on... so I'm coming back for more.
<<Ok>>
WATER CHANGES
Do I follow a routine water change while I am waiting for my tank to finish cycling or is this something you do when the cycle is done?
<<Don't worry about water changes till the cycle has finished, then do a nice 50% water change>>
TESTING
I'm afraid I have a little trouble making a clear decision on the 'colour' I am seeing. If it's obvious, that's fine (say a blue versus a lilac colour) but in determining some of the colour variations on the colour cards, I worry that I may not be judging it accurately enough. I've been known to drag my test tube and chart from room to room, light to light ... I mean seriously, this may turn me into a nervous wreck yet. For example, the ammonia reading from 2.0 to 4.0 is fairly similar ... How precise do I need to be? What about people that are colour blind - is there an alternative?
<<Certainly not something to stress too much about. What i do, when i test, is either use the brightest light in the house and stand directly under it, and match liquid to card, or rest the card and the vial on a white window area and let bright day light shine on it.>>
Ahhh...and another thing ... what's the general preference - the test strips or test tube test? I've already broken a test tube!
<<Liquid test kits, certainly. The strips are very very inaccurate>>
And! Is there a digital device that can give a numerical reading available? I know you can buy pH testers but wondered if there was one that did all? (this would certainly help my stress levels! :o)
<<Not that i am aware of here in the UK, might be different where you live. Check places like Bigalsonline.com , marinedepot.com or drsfosterandsmith.com >>
PROTEIN SKIMMERS
Okay - I have one of these all in one tanks (25 gallon) and remembering I am a complete novice, do I need a protein skimmer? What would be the best type for my tank?
<<It does depend on the hood / canopy. Is there room for a hang on the side skimmer? Maybe look and see if they sell a special one to fit your all in one perhaps?>>
(My plan is 2 dwarf or medium sized sea horses (dwarf would be my preference but I am told they can be hard to get here in AU). I was also planning a Shrimp Goby or two ... maybe a star fish.
<<They are hard, full stop. I would recommend you not get these until you have some good knowledge foundation under your belt. No issues with the shrimp goby...star fish, no..>>
ADDITIVES
Of the millions of additives, nutrients that there are for sale, what are the basic essentials or must have emergency 'potions' that I should have on hand to keep my sea horses healthy / alive?
<<None. All the trace elements you need will get replenished when you carry out your 10% per week water change. The only time this may change is if you add a lot of hard / stony corals to the tank, and you will have to add calcium etc>>
LOL I think that was about it. I do apologise for all the questions.
<<Its no problem>>
Regards
Andrea - South Australia
<<Thanks for the follow-up. I hope this helps to clear a few things up for you. Good day. A Nixon>>

Setting up a new tank, Cycling, SW    6/22/08
(Sorry to bother you but I sent this last week - thought I would try again because I can't see where there's been a reply)
<Thank you for this. We reply directly to all... I don't recall seeing this>
- BTW, the test results are still the same as they were when I sent the email below (14th June) ...I'm wond4ering if I may have a bio-filter problem?)
Regards
Andrea - South Australia
Many thanks to the wonderful advise from of Mr Nixon in recent replies --- Andrea from Australia here (once again) needing some reassurance from you wonderful people.
Just an update:
I am cycling a 25G all-in-one type aquarium with the hope that I may some day soon have a couple of seahorses.
The tank was in its 2nd week when Andrew was able to assist me in getting the cycling process moving a little faster with the addition of a raw prawn. The tank went hazy and a little on the nose - Andrew reassured me that was normal. All seemed to move along from then when the ammonia moved to what I thought looked like the 4.0 range within about 6 days and that was when I removed the prawn (as suggested). Tank is clear again and smells fine. All this was almost 2 weeks ago.
What I am not sure about is that not much has happened since then. I test every 2nd day. The ammonia result seems to be hovering at that same 4.0 level. I guess it's *possible* that the result is getting a tad less dark (green) but it just seems to be pretty much the same. The nitrite and nitrate seem to be at a standstill too. I assume these won't change until the ammonia does?
<Mmm, yes. And there may well be so/too much ammonia here for establishment of nitrification to occur>
Question - should I be seeing some changes to ammonia levels by now? (note the tank has now been cycling 6 weeks)
<Likely so>
The other thing I wondered was ...well it would help me if I could compare the test from the one I did a couple of days ago ... just to reassure myself that something is happening. How long can you keep the test for reference - or is it really a case of the '5 minute' use-by time?
<Should be dumped, the container rinsed, let to air-dry>
Another dumb novice question - is that 5 minute test time fairly strict ... in other words, should I be using an alarm to base my results on? LOL I'm so sorry ... but this colour testing does my head in.
<A general rule... gives time for reactants to mix>
I have also noticed these brown spots forming (have looked into archives and think it is diatoms). They started as little spots on the white pebble and they're growing daily and spreading to other items in the tank quickly. Based on the WWM info, I see these are normal and not really harmful right?
<Correct. Actually a sign that "things" are progressing>
They are multiplying rapidly though. Because the tank is cycling, I've been leaving the lights on 1/2 overnight (for no real reason other than its a handy night light when going for a glass of water at night - didn't think it would matter). My confusion stems from - some comments suggest leaving lights on and letting diatom grow itself out ?? Others say limit light. I guess that depends on whether you have inhabitants does it? What's my best plan of action?
<To proceed as you have been. The lighting is fine>
I'm just a bit worried I could end up with a diatom plaque. Given that they are still at a level where the glass isn't covered yet, can I control this to a manageable level now or is it best to let them go?
<The latter>
We have used plain tap water - and I read WWM comments about the link between silicates and diatoms. I have no idea if they exist in our Aussie water or not - I'll have to look into that but the question now is, should we be running our water through a filter system anyway ... this would be when I get to a point of doing water changes?
<I would not fret re for now>
Gosh this is really complex stuff. I'm glad I started basic. I'm so sorry to bother you about these mundane questions ... I did try to find the answers but it seems like I need some hand holding here. :o(
Regards
Andrea
South Australia
<I'd allow the ammonia to drift down, try to be patient for now. Bob Fenner>

A few questions..... SW cycling, stocking a small SW sys., reading 5/17/08
Hi my name is Jackie and thank you for taking your time to read my questions.
<Welcome>
About three weeks ago I started my 38 gallon tank with 17 lbs of cured live rock (will be getting more soon) and 20 pounds of live sand. I also started a 18 gallon quarantine tank.
I began to feed my tanks fish food to get them cycling. My quarantine tank almost immediately started to get ammonia with a set up of a sponge filter and one cured live rock and the cycling process is now by the nitrite. However, my display tank, refuses to cycle. I waited two weeks putting food every day I only got a reading of .025 ammonia and after that nothing.
<May have been/become "ready cycled"... happens>
The display tank has a wet/dry filter with activated carbon (hang on the tank not sump), 400mph powerhead and heater (my protein skimmer is not working and I'm going to get a new one).
<May not be much to skim... I'd hold off for now>
I tried taking off the wet/dry filter thinking the carbon had something to do with it and kept feeding the tank and still nothing. The other day I plugged my wet/dry back in because the tank was getting messy and I took out some of the food in the tank. Another method I tried was getting some water from the quarantine tank into the display, but still nothing. What am I doing wrong that my tank isn't cycling?
<I do believe this system IS cycled...>
What other methods can I try besides sticking a poor fish in there and hoping for the best? Also, the bag that my live sand came in says that it "instantly cycles tank" with beneficial bacteria. Could that be the cause?
<Much more likely the live rock...>
Another question that I have refers to livestock. I mainly got this tank because I wanted to keep false Perculas in the tank (two of them to start). They are my first fish I intend to get as soon as my quarantine tank finishes its cycle. I started wanting to keep two , but I am having a hard time on not getting more. I wanted to add two orange ones and as soon as the tank gets used to the bio load of the fishes add one or two black false Perculas or adding one or two true Perculas. I have read that keeping more than a pair depends on your tank size. Would you recommend this in a 38 gallon?
<I would stick with just two>
If you don't recommend this what other fishes can I slowly add to my tank over time?
<Too many to list here... and not a good approach to generating a stocking list... take your time, keep reading... enjoy the process/hunt>
I was thinking of two purple firefishes and a school of chromis?
<This system/volume is too small for these>
Is there enough space?
<Ah, no>
One thing I am worried about and this was a stupid mistake on my part since I was in a hurry. I brought a water conditioner for my water and by the time I added it to my water.... I realized that it was Tetraponds...is this going to affect my livestock?
<No, not adversely>
If so, what can I do to correct the problem? Do I buy another water conditioner and put it in the water?
<Pre-mix and store your new water... no need, use for any such conditioner/s>
My final question is there anything that is vital to the tank that is missing?
<?!>
I am getting a 65 gallon protein skimmer, 20 pounds of live sand and about 28 pounds of live rock? My wet/dry filter is just for a 40 gallon do I upgrade as soon as I get the money?
<I'd keep reading, save your money>
Sorry to ask you so many questions. I have no one else to ask these questions to.
Thank you for taking your time to read my questions and have a nice day.
<Read on my friend; you're doing fine. Bob Fenner>

Cycling and reading 4/26/08
I started my 75g salt tank four days ago and tested it. I was following the directions and it said to remove it.
<What? A test strip?>
So I did. Then I saw the next day that there should be ammonia in the water for the cycling process.
<Yes.>
Now I tested it (a day later) and of course the ammonia is gone. Will it come back or do I have to add something to restart the cycling process?
<You will need something in the tank to cycle it, what depends on the type of tank. Live rock, food, a piece of shrimp, or a small hardy fish all can get the process started. What to do based on your system and filtration is posted throughout WWM. A little research and reading is needed. Good luck, Scott V.>

Strange spike in my water quality 2-25-08
Hello Again WWM Crew! I hope your day is going well.
<No biostatistics today! Yay!>
I have a question about a strange spike in my water quality numbers.
<Alrighty then>
I have a 125g FOWLR tank (about 50lbs of LR and 100lbs of LS). My numbers were all within range (ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 5-10, ph 8.2-8.4) for a couple weeks, then I added my livestock about two weeks ago.
<What, pray tell, does "Livestock" entail?>
The numbers since then have been the same, but Friday night when I tested, I did not expect the results I received: (Ammonia .50, Nitrates 3.0, Nitrates 20, ph 8.2). I quickly did a 20% water change, and let the tank "settle" overnight. Saturday morning, I tested again, and even with the water change, I had identical numbers: (Ammonia .50, Nitrates 3.0, Nitrates 20, pH 8.2). I did another 20% water change Saturday afternoon, and checked again Sunday morning...almost Identical numbers again: (Ammonia .25 [slight drop], Nitrites 3.0, Nitrates 20, ph 8.2). I did yet another 20% change Sunday night, and just checked again this morning, and the numbers are the same as yesterday: (Ammonia .25, Nitrates 3.0, Nitrates 20, ph 8.2). The other thing I have noticed is that there seems to be some growth in the tank. Not much at all, but there are a few resin ornaments we have in the tank and there seems to be a brownish algae growing on the tops of them.
<Not at all unusual, especially during a cycle>
My question is, is it possible my tank is re-cycling for some reason?
<Most likely> Also, what course of action should I take? Am I not changing enough water (20%) to make an impact on the numbers, or are the nitrites and nitrates holding steady because the tank is cycling (again?).
<Sounds like you simply added too much biomass too quickly, with a possible of lack of adequate biological filtration. Water changes are going to interrupt this second cycle, so I would cease the water changes, add Amquel+ or Prime daily to neutralize the ammonia/nitrites, and add a 'cycle booster' type product (I like SeaChem's' Stability) to 'jump start' your biofilter. Next time, don't add animals as quickly!>
I appreciate any thoughts and suggestions. As always, thank you for your time and your help.
<Anytime>
Mike P.
<M. Maddox>

Question about nitrites during fishless cycling, BioSpira f'  1/25/08
Hello all,
<Hi Allison, Jeni/Pufferpunk here>
A hopefully quick question for you. I have a new 30 gallon freshwater tank which I set up about 2.5 weeks ago (no fish), when I added about 1.5 ml of some ammonia I bought at the grocery store. It didn't tell me what concentration it was, but I read that "Household ammonia is a dilute mixture of 5 to 10 percent ammonia gas in water." My water indicated about 2.0 ppm ammonia.
<Should raise it to 5ppm.>
It took about a week before my ammonia went down to zero, and since then I've been adding a little bit each day (about .5 ml) and it's always at zero when I test it again the next day (and then add more). I haven't tested my nitrite until tonight and it's reading around 2.0 ppm, though I can't be sure because it's a color test. I would have thought the nitrite would be at zero by now, since it's been a week and a half since the ammonia first went down to zero. Could it be that the ammonia I'm adding daily is killing off the bacteria that does the second part of the cycle (the nitrite-to-nitrate part)?
<No, that bacteria feeds off ammonia.>
I was hoping to be able to get my first two fish (two Cory cats) in a couple days but I want the nitrite to
be at zero, of course. Should I continue adding my .5ml of ammonia each night and wait for the nitrite to get down to zero?
<You need to start out with enough ammonia to test 5pp, ammonia. When you start seeing nitrite, you cut that amount in half, until ammonia & nitrite are 0 & the nitrate spikes. Then do an 80% water change & you're ready to add fish (you can fully stock your tank at this point).>
If you advise to NOT add ammonia, how then can I keep the bacteria multiplying?
<All the bacteria will die without "food'">
I don't know of anywhere to get Bio-Spira locally, otherwise I'd just get that and the fish all at once!
<Unfortunately, I have seen way too many instances of folks counting on Bio-Spira to cycle their tank, only to find out it wasn't kept refrigerated from Marineland, to the supplier, to the wholesaler, to the LFS, to the tank. I have a friend who is a wholesaler. He went to a supplier's warehouse & there were huge skids with cases of Bio-Spira, sitting out in their very warm warehouse. They had been there for quite some time. I was at a LFS one time, where they had some Bio-Spira out on their counter. I insisted it was to be refrigerated & they should read the directions on the back of the package. They read it & put it in the refrigerator for sale. It had been on their counter for months! I am getting a lot of reports of folks depending on their tank being cycled with Bio-Spira & after putting precious, sensitive fish (like puffers) into their supposedly cycled tank, losing these fish to ammonia/nitrite poisoning. I'm sorry I for being so long-winded in your particular email but I wanted people to know about this growing problem with Bio-Spira. If it isn't kept refrigerated the entire time, before getting to your tank, bets are, it's not going to work. One way to prevent this problem is to buy online from a place like Drs Foster & Smith. They guarantee cold delivery. Good luck with your fishless cycle. Here is an excellent article: http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/library/water-filtration/fishless-cycling/ ~PP>
Thanks for the help! I really appreciate it!
Allison

What to do with a sick damselfish in a small tank that's cycling 01/11/2008
Hi,
<<Hello, Andrew here>>
My new 65l tank is in the third week of its cycle (unfortunately, not having researched this hobby adequately, I was persuaded that the damselfish method would be ok -reading your site I realize this is not really the case).
<<Glad to see this is realised>>
I have 2 blue damsels and 1 blue/yellow damsel. The blue/yellow was never the most vigorous but for a week or so he has been floating around at the surface and not really eating, his eyes are cloudy and quite suddenly white areas have developed around his gills and head. I'm pretty concerned and wonder how to treat him at this stage of tank cycling - the other 2 fish are very strong and eat well.
If I was to hospitalize this fish in a separate tank what water should I use? Can I buy special ready prepared water?
<<Its not just water you need, you will need a cycled tank to move the poorly fish too. You best course of action is to catch the fish, and take them back to where you brought them from. Then add a raw (uncooked) shrimp or prawn as your ammonia source, instead of the fish, and cycle correctly. This way you don't harm the fish any more than they have been, and you wont be stuck with semi aggressive fish after the cycle>>
What would I do with the other fish if this is a parasitic infestation - would I need to stick them in yet another tank?
<<As above, you need a cycled aquarium to move them too, which you don't have. Take note from my comment above regarding taking the fish back to a store and get some store credit for them>>
Any help would be appreciated, thanks, Sean.
<<Thanks for the questions, A Nixon>>

Species of Nitrifiers in SW and Fresh 11/25/2007
Dear Crew,
Just wondering whether the good bacteria in freshwater systems is the same bacteria in saltwater systems.
<That's a far more complicated question that you might think. In one sense, yes, they're the same bacteria. However, they have different relative roles/importance in different environments. There's really no "light reading" on this, but you can try this if you're feeling ambitious: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=168074>
Cheers,
Andrew
<Best,
Sara M.>

CALL FOR PAPERS
International Conference on Nutrient Recovery from Wastewater Streams - 11/20/07
May 10-13, 2009 - Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Closing the loop for nutrients in wastewaters (municipal sewage, animal wastes, food industry, commercial and other liquid waste streams) is a necessary, sustainable development objective, to reduce resource consumption and greenhouse gas emissions. Chemistry, engineering and process integration understanding are all developing quickly and new processes are already coming online. A new "paradigm" is emerging, globally. Commercial marketing of recovered nutrients as "green" fertilizers, or recycling of nutrients through biomass production to new outlets such as bio-fuels, is starting to happen.
This conference will bring together the various waste stream industries, regulators, researchers, R/D and process engineers and commercial managers, to develop intersectorial understanding and joint projects for phosphorus and nitrogen recovery and reuse from waste waters.
Abstracts are solicited in particular in the following areas:
§ Phosphorus and nitrogen recovery from different wastewater sources
§ Process design and plant integration
§ Marketing and use of recovered nutrient products
§ Struvite, K- Struvite and calcium phosphate precipitation
§ Ion exchange nutrient recovery processes
§ P-recovery from biosolids incineration ashes
§ Leading-edge research and innovative technology
In addition, there will be an Open Session, devoted to "new thinking" for this emerging paradigm, in concert with an expert panel discussion. Dr. James L. Barnard (2007 Clarke Prize) will be the Keynote Speaker and will address the audience during the Plenary Session, on the opening day of the conference.
The Conference Programme will also offer visits to phosphorus recovery installations (Ostara/UBC struvite recovery process) recently commissioned in municipal sewage works in Edmonton, Alberta.
ABSTRACT DEADLINE: March 28th, 2008.
Please send abstract submissions to
(2-page single-spaced maximum, with additional 2 pages of tables or figures):
Venue West Conference Services Ltd.
Conference Secretariat - Nutrient Recovery, 2009
#100-873 Beatty Street - Vancouver, B.C. - V6B 2M6 - Canada
Fax: 604 681-2503 - E-mail: mmori@venuewest.com
This conference is hosted by the Department of Civil Engineering of the University of British Columbia (UBC) and chaired by Dr. D.S. Mavinic, Professor of Civil and Environmental Engineering, UBC. Sponsors include:
a.. The University of British Columbia (UBC) http://www.civil.ubc.ca/pcwm/
b.. Global Phosphate Forum www.phosphate-forum.org
c.. The Chartered Institution of Water and Environmental Management (CIWEM) www.ciwem.org
d.. Ostara Research Foundation (ORF) www.ostara.com

Mini cycle after aquarium upgrade   11/15/07
<Hello Dan>
First and foremost I'd like to thank you and your team for your hard work and dedication. I am amazed and inspired by the level of knowledge and expertise you share with the community.
<Thank you from the whole crew!!!>
I've recently upgraded my established, healthy FOWLR 40gallon breeder to a 90 gallon oceanic setup. My plan is to do fish and some corals. I staged the move from one tank to the next over a 2 week period, beginning with introducing about 30lbs of live sand along with 40lbs of cured LR. I filled about 75% of the tank with new RODI filtered water and mixed salt with no livestock. Water circulated (about 500-600 gph) for 4-5 days at 77 degrees. I did not do any water testing during that time. On day 5 I did water tests - ammonia was less than .20 , nitrite and nitrate were 0. Salinity was 1.023, temp 78, ph 8.2. KH was 125. Calcium was a little higher than normal (I had buffered the day before).
I began transferring the remaining LR and about 40% of my existing sand from the old tank. Fish were in a holding tank with water from the old tank.
This past Sunday I did the final transfer of live stock - 4 fish and a few inverts.
Monday am- Ammonia was .25 -- late Monday pm it was .30 - nitrites and nitrates were both 0. Tuesday Ammonia was just about the same, maybe .35-.40 other parameters were fine. (ph, salinity, temp, KH, ca, etc)
I mixed 50 gallons of salt water and began to prepare for the inevitable 50% water change if the ammonia didn't level out...However to my surprise -
Tuesday - Ammonia stayed the same, along with all other parameters. Late Tuesday PM, Ammonia began to drop back to .25
Today (Wed) Ammonia is almost 0 again. Funny thing is Nitrate and Nitrites are at 0 as well.
Question - can a "partial" cycle take place without a true spike in ammonia and rise in nitrites before leveling out?
<ANSWER- YES. Basically, you already had sufficient numbers of nitrifying bacteria present. Your transfer included new sand, new rock, and your "bio-load" changed. The bacteria needed to catch up to the new demand of your new system by colonizing new surfaces. There is a "mini cycle" that lasts between 72 hours and a week for these bacteria to colonize. After this time frame you should begin to have zero readings on your test kits. (This is normal) However, the system is still maturing and bacteria are still adjusting to your maintenance schedules and so forth.>
I have 2 test kits and tested everything except ammonia with both measures.
Am I in the safe zone? I was anticipating much more of a cycle
<You are in the "safe" zone. I recommend that you wait another 30 days before you begin to purchase new stock or add more corals as the new system stabilizes. Continue testing and make water changes as necessary.
On another note, when hobbyist switch from FOWLR to reef tanks or corals they are unaware of how important the control of phosphates are. Please purchase a good phosphate test kit and keep this level as low as possible with water changes and the use of an Iron Oxide resin. Enjoy your new tank-Rich...aka...Mr. Firemouth>

Tank Breakdown... re-establishing SW cycling with dead live sand    11/11/07
Hi there,
<David>
I recently broke down a 72 gallon tank and stored the live sand in buckets.
After s few weeks,
<... stinky...>
I set up a tank solely for the purpose of preparing replacement water for my water changes on a smaller tank that I have. I put in this sand after I washed it many times.
<Oh, good>
As expected, the readings were off the charts. I know all the fauna perished - however, I want to - at some point - reuse the sand. I am weekly changing 50% of the water in this tank - yet the readings have not dropped - am I not being realistic here?
What should I expect? Should I just start fresh and throw this out?
<Mmm, I would just add a bit... a few pounds, of live rock... and let this re-seed the sand>
I am confused.
<Mmm, more impatient...>
Your advice is valued....and as always - many thanks for maintaining this invaluable source of info for a hobby that I love.
Cheers,
David
<It is for you we endeavour to share. Ten deep breaths, long walks... let time go by here... with some LR added. Bob Fenner>

Question on cycling 11/5/07
Hi there again!
<Hello, Scott V. here.>
As so many people comment, I am overawed at the experience of everyone on this website - and I greatly appreciate the efforts you put into answering everyone's questions. So with that in mind, I have some questions that may be variations on a theme - but I haven't found the other variations. So, ye of the great font of knowledge, please don't despair with me...I feel I can learn, sometimes in this field I just feel like there's an amazingly steep learning curve and get overwhelmed...at which point ya'll usually help me feel better about it.
<Sometimes its easy to feel overwhelmed, we’re always here to help.>
I know I just wrote earlier tonight on a friend's tank, but I have also been busily reading your various FAQs on cycling. I am working on upgrading my 29-gallon tank (established for just over 3 years, many corals and a few fish and other livestock, generally doing well) <Good to hear.> to a 92-gallon tank, and was wondering you could help with several things, both that I think I figured out (hopefully properly) and that my LFS told me. For what it's worth, I will be selling my 29 afterwards as an "already set-up and cycled" tank (hopefully just in time for Christmas), so I am also trying to time all this with the holidays (I know, shouldn't be a consideration, but it would be nice to sell the old tank before Christmas...lets me get new things for the new tank:-) ).
About 2 feet from my 29-gallon I have set up a 92-gallon corner tank (no sump or refugium yet; I am hopeful for a lovely Christmas). After filling it with about 60 gallons of RO/DI water and SeaChem salt (spec. gravity 1.024), I added a total of 160 lbs. sand to it over the course of a week (trying for a DSB, 40 of these pounds were packaged Live Sand). That last day (the day I added the LS) I added a 25 lb. cured LR (a lovely calcified piece of dead Elkhorn that has become a LR). I also cut up a big raw shrimp (sorry, didn't have any cocktail shrimp), and have been using 2 MaxiJet 1200's (tank is only about 3/4 full, giving it room for everything else to be added) for water circulation. I am hoping to hang the light this coming weekend (will involve my husband, and free time in my schedule), but I have had my heaters running. The temp is averaging 78 (dipped down to 70 today when my heater went on the blink), ammonia is around .25 (has been the same for 3 days - but the shrimp pieces have not complete disintegrated yet), nitrates and nitrites are 0, specific gravity is 1.026, pH is 7.8 (no light), and alkalinity and calcium are running high (off the Salifert test kit's scale). I have a Tunze 9010 skimmer, but have not installed it yet - makes no sense to do so yet, right?
<I would pull out the shrimp pieces and start to run the skimmer. The live rock (you will need more for a tank this size) will provide the biological filtration. It is more of a question of curing the rock rather than cycling the tank. The shrimp will just increase ammonia levels and kill beneficials on the rock you wish to keep.>
My question is: My LFS seems to feel that if I move everything from my current tank at the same time , I should be able to do so without the new tank necessarily needing to cycle before I put it in.
<Depends.>
This would include moving some of the current tank's sand. However, everything I have read makes me think that I do need to cycle the new tank first because of the amounts of new sand involved. Or do I have this wrong, since I am actually transferring the entire contents of an existing tank (minus most of the DSB) to the new tank?
Personally (based on what I have read), I am thinking I need to continue cycling and see if I can get the tank to actually do a complete cycle.
<If you take the contents of your existing tank and put it in your new tank the only thing that would change is the container in which you keep the rock and livestock. The thing that you may have to wait on is the curing of the rock. If the rock has some die off you will need to wait until ammonia and nitrites are undetectable to transfer everything over.>
Would it make sense to add the water I pull out of my 29-gallon tank to the 92-gallon tank when I do my next water change?
<I would use freshly mixed water here. >
I have an extremely full 29-gallon, so I have problems getting at much of the sand (I would like to use it to seed the new tank further) unless I siphon it out at the water change...the best I can do is move one piece of LR right now (has no
corals on it).
<I would use some of the sand to seed your new tank and wait to transfer everything else all at once. The rock in your 29 is providing your filtration.>
As long as I move all my LR and my livestock at the same time when I do move it, should it cause the bacteria imbalance I keep reading about that comes with too quick stocking?
<No, your filtration (rock) is moving with you.>
I ask because the LR already supports all the current livestock, so the bacteria load there shouldn't be any different <Exactly!>- or is my comprehension wrong after all? Also, can I pick my LR up out of the water if it goes traveling all of 2 feet before going back in...I sometimes get the impression from the FAQ's on this site that LR should never be exposed to air (I know it's the case with sponges...will other items on the LR really die off that quickly?).
<It will be fine for the transfer from tank to tank.>
As usual, I can't decide if I am overanalyzing this matter or just worrying needlessly. However, I like my tank and fish, and don't want any of them to suffer - no matter how much my tang is eyeing the new tank and begging to move :-) .
<Yes, he will appreciate more space.>
Thanks again in advance for all your inputs - I really enjoy reading your website, and am impressed with the vast amounts of knowledge revealed in all the answers. I must also admit it's interesting to see sometimes how opinions have changed on things just in the past 2-3 years, as techniques and equipment continue to change.
Thanks again for your help,
Kerstin:-)
<Things do change fast with new discoveries and techniques. Please read
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_2/cav2i3/Live_Rock/live_rock.htm
and live rock FAQ’s for more information on curing your new rock. Congratulations on the new tank and good luck, Scott V.>

Bacteria In a Bottle (Addition of Bacterial Cultures) – 09/19/07
Dear Crew,
<Hi there! Scott F. in today.>
Further to my queries, do I need to dose beneficial bacteria on a weekly basis (as stated on the bottle) or it'll multiply on it's own according to the nutrient load?
<That's correct. The bacteria population will generally grow in proportion with the increasing bioload. However, the "bacteria in a bottle" products are helpful for "jump starting" your system, or for the occasional "kick in the pants" when you add more animals. On the whole, I'm generally not in the habit of adding these cultures on a regular basis, although it would be interesting to see if there would be any additional benefits derived from such regular additions.>
Lastly, I'm using crushed corals to buffer my pH
but how long can CCs stay effective? Thks. in advance.
<Hmm...good question. You really simply have to measure your alkalinity and pH regularly to determine any trends in this area. Substrate can certainly dissolve over time, but I think that the best way to buffer an aquarium is through regular additions of buffer preparations, Kalkwasser, or even a calcium reactor. Lots of information is available on these items on the WWM site.>
Regards.
Alan
<Glad to be of assistance! Regards, Scott F.>

Medication /bacterial supplement recommendations, Bactinettes/Nitrification, successful use of Cuprazin for Crypt and Velvet    7/25/07
Hello all. Apologies in advance for the stupidly long email.
<No worries>
I have written to offer my recommendations on a few products I have used recently whilst treating for ich/whitespot and velvet in my saltwater setup, and also a European bacterial supplement I have used and found to be very effective.
<Ah! Thank you>
I recently caused a near-wipeout of the nitrifying bacteria in my reef tank by medicating (for whitespot AND velvet) with the so-called reef-friendly Octozin by Waterlife. I have learned my lesson the hard way, and will never medicate in my display tank again.
<Alleleujah!>
Luckily, I did not lose any fish, although my torch coral and a few shrooms are still recovering, fingers crossed. My main concern was the loss of bacteria; ammonia spiked at about 2 mg/L and I didn't see much conversion to nitrites/nitrates, for obvious reasons. An avid reader of your site, I was desperate to get my hands on some Bio-Spira or similar, as Hagen's Cycle was having little effect. However, we in Europe cannot buy Bio-Spira, or certainly not by conventional means. I had seen some mention on UK websites of a product called "Bactinettes" made by the German company Soll (or Soell). These are small, 3 mm diameter gelatinous spheres, which apparently house nitrifying bacteria. They are suspended in a fluid containing ammonia, amongst other nutrients, to keep the bacteria happy! Bactinettes can be used in both freshwater and saltwater setups, although more and bigger 'doses' are required for saltwater. They must be stored at 4ºC for greatest efficacy. In some reviews I have read, when these bacteria are not kept chilled, they quickly become ineffective, so make sure your retailer is storing/shipping them correctly!
<Noted>
Upon receipt, you are advised to drain the surrounding fluid from the spheres (very important step, because as I mentioned the fluid is nutrient-rich), place spheres into a media bag, and place bag directly into the filter. In my case, I didn't have any type of filter that would be suitable, so I wedged the bag into my live rock, and aimed a powerhead obliquely at it in order to create some circulation. The idea is that the spheres 'dissolve' over a few days, releasing bacteria which then colonise your filter/live rock, and begin their metabolising miracles!
To give you an idea of how many packs are required: my tank is 200 litres. I bought 6 'portions' of Bactinettes: 2 portions were inserted on each of days 1, 3, and 9.
I must add at this juncture that I am in no way connected with this company - I just wanted to pass on my experience to other Europeans who may be looking for a bacterial supplement product which works. I should also say that I think there is no substitute for patient and natural cycling; however in my case I did not have the time (clock was a-ticking!) or capacity to do this, and I was terribly worried about my livestock. My water, within one week, during which I also saw a heavy nitrite spike, is now down to undetectable levels of ammonia and 0.1 mg/L nitrite, and counting. The nitrate load is being taken care of with a Deltec MCE 300 skimmer - also a wonderful product! The Bactinettes have been a lifesaver for my fish. I'm not going to say where I bought them from, as I'm sure everyone has the capacity to Google search, and they are available from at least one online retailer in the UK, and elsewhere across Europe. I'm not expecting you to endorse the product without having used it yourselves, and it is no substitute for less desperate and more 'natural' measures! As I said, I just wanted to share my experience - this worked for me. I am going to recommend that my LFS gets some in, although I will hopefully never need to use them again!
By the way, I can also recommend Cuprazin (Waterlife) as a hospital-tank only treatment for whitespot and velvet. It brought my clowns back from the brink. I have spoken with the chemist who devised this medication, and he claimed that as well as the ubiquitous Copper Sulphate, Cuprazin also contains Malachite Green and Formalin (in what levels I do not know, but they seemed to be effective without causing any nasty side effects), and it could therefore be used as a broader spectrum treatment than CuSO4 alone. In my case, it solved a medium case of whitespot within 3 days, and a severe case of velvet within a week. I continued treatment for 15 days, at a copper concentration of approx 0.5 mg/L, in a bare-bottomed 10G hospital tank with a few pieces of PVA guttering for cover, and an bubbly airstone, heater and pump. Every day after feeding I removed 10L water by siphoning from the bottom to collect any parasites/waste, and replaced with a 'new' 10L water, to keep the ammonia levels down. On replacement of the 10L water, I added 10 more drops of Cuprazin to compensate for that which had been removed in the 'old' water. The idea is that 1 drop Cuprazin 'treats' 1 litre of water. Cuprazin is chelated, and I was worried that adding this amount every time I did a water change would mean a build-up of copper to toxic levels, but it seemed to keep my 0.5 mg copper/L constant and steady. I would definitely recommend the use of a Salifert or similar test to keep an eye on this, however. I also carried out two sets of freshwater dips, well aerated and pH and temperature adjusted (days 2 and 3), which resulted in huge amounts of mucus being expelled from the gills of both fish, and many of the whitespot parasites dropping straight off the skin of one of the fish. I managed to keep my clowns happy and calm in these dips for 17 minutes on the first try, and 10 minutes on the second attempt. I did not add Methylene blue to the freshwater dip as I was worried that this would be one chemical too far! I cannot stress the importance of good aeration, temp and pH matching in freshwater dips heavily enough. These factors, in my humble opinion, are what makes or breaks the dip, and the fish! The velvet parasite was more resilient to these dips, but was soon taken care of by the Cuprazin. I tried to keep the temperature in the hospital tank fairly high (27/28ºC) and the specific gravity fairly low (1.020) during treatment. After 15 days, I continued the water changes for a couple of weeks, just without adding any more Cuprazin. Bingo! Happy, healthy clowns!
Many thanks for listening. I hope I've managed to give someone some handy advice!
Lisa, UK.
<Thank you for writing... so completely and clearly! Bob Fenner>