Finishing touches on refugiums, pipefish, and holes oh my...3/7/09
Hello Bob, Scott, Eric, or whomever is there...
<Scott V. with you this go round.>
After probably reading this 100 times a day, I must also say you guys/gals are great!!!?
<Happy the site has helped you!>
A job well done and don't pay one bit of attention to my wife being jealous or disliking you...;]!?
<Uh oh.>
I can only begin to guess the time given by the whole crew for newbies like us!!!? After many countless hours of studying WWM am going to make my first purchase in two weeks....MY TANK...Yaaayy!!!?
<Congrats.>
I would like to ask a few specific questions if I may, so I can take the leap!? First off, Im purchasing a custom 72/75 gallon tank, I was going to have {2} 3" holes drilled for 2" bulkheads and a single 2 3/8" hole for a 1.5" bulkhead. The guy building the tank for me said that those sizes were for sch 40 and that they were junk. Instead he said I would need for them to be sch 80 or they would end up cracking or wearing out. Said every customer who had em...had problems.
<There is no need for schedule 80 in aquarium applications, the pressures involved come nowhere near warranting this. I personally have thousands of customers out there using sch 40 with no issues...the fact that he has makes me wonder what is being done wrong.>
He also said instead of 3/8" glass I need 1/4" for the size holes im having drilled. Do you feel I need the sch 80 bulkheads??
<Nope.>
Would you agree with him on the glass as well??
<If I am reading this correctly, to go thinner? No, 3/8 minimum for this tank.>
Reason I ask is im sure with those upgrades there's an extra buck in there somewhere for him.
<Possibly.>
I was thinking all the holes on back wall, the 2 inch bhs near the top by the corners and the 1.5 inch bh near the center at top. Would it be better to have these clustered together rather than spread apart like that??
<No real difference, put them where you want them.>
The 1.5 will be for the closed loop, is it ok to be at the same level as the 2"s??
<I would place it lower to keep it from drawing in air/air bubbles near the top.>
Speaking of closed loop...hehe...will my outputs {swiveling els/LocLine} need to be the same length to provide even circulation??
<Nope.>
I'd planned on one or two being longer to reach middle tank level.
<Will be fine.>
Sorry for being so sporadic, I feel im so close to actually putting my plan in gear that I've gotten a little nervous...; [ ! I'm wondering how noisy 750-1000 gph will be coming through a 40-55 gallon sump?? Can you weigh in??
<This can easily be managed. You may have to play around with the baffling a bit, see:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_3/cav3i1/Baffles/bafflesart.htm, this technique works great.>
When I hear about not maximizing flow capacity to save on noise etc, does that mean just having a smaller pump than what the overflow holes can actually handle??
<Part of it, ideally you will flow the overflows at 1/2 or less than what they can handle, this way you will have a backup should one fail.>
Ok last two ?s... I'll be using flex pipe for my plumbing, I will need to put a valve on line going to the refugium to control flow.
<OK, but if (just incase) you are drawing this off of an overflow line you will want to have a T before the valve leads to the refugium. This way when you choke the valve a bit the overflow line has a bleed off, still has its full flow capacity.>
For that and connections to bulkheads and pumps, will I need to form some kind of hard pvc union for the flex to clamp on?? Does that make sense??
<Hmm, yes, plastic hose barbs. If you wish to use flexible material to plumb do also consider the flexible PVC, sold as SpaFlex in many hardware stores. This piping is forgiving, flexes, and can be solvent welded into PVC fittings just like regular PVC. You do need a PVC solvent rated for flexible PVC, but if you read the fine print on many solvents out there they are actually rated for flex.>
Ok last one! For the refugium, I'll have to make it a display refugium or the wife will go crazy {she doesn't have the slightest interest in my "obsession"} so I plan on having a 55 gallon set up beside and below the display. I will going for a DSB for NNR, and LR with Chaeto for a good pod population. It would be awesome for a pipefish/seahorse or two to reside in there!? Given the refugium setup would that be ok for syngnathids??
<It could work, sure.>
Also do you feel they will demolish the whole pod population??
<This is the concern with adding these, ideally a refugium provides the pods a place to grow without impediments like being eaten!>
Whew. For some reason I feel a lot better now...hehe. By the way, can anyone tell me how I can get my CMA, RI and BOCP autographed ; ]?
<We will see what Bob has to say here, but one way would be to meet him at a trade show/club meet sometime. They are worthwhile to attend for many reasons.>
<<Agreed Scott... and rather than mailing books about... the much better way to meet us, other folks of similar interests. RMF>>
Thanks again for the wealth of knowledge you so greatly pass out. By the way I kinda get bummed out when I have completed the entire section of whatever im studying at the time, I mean c'mon, you couldn't have made the refdesfaqs go to 20 instead of 13....totally just kidding!?
<All the sections are constantly growing!>
Thanks again,
J J
<Welcome, have fun.>

Proper Tubing size... induced drag, magnetic driven pumps, flexible vs. rigid... Better filtration choices period   8/6/07
After many years of listening to my loud pump and water noise I finally decided to move everything that was below the aquarium to the other side of the wall which is outside the house. I bought a small garden storage and insulated it extremely well and plumbed the sump and a couple Ocean Clear bio filters with 5/8" tubing and using 1/2" connecters or 90's where needed. I used the same pump I always had which is a little giant 4mdsq. I noticed immediately that I didn't have the flow I wanted for a reef tank so purchased a barely used Iwaki md 70. The flow had doubled to Im guessing around 500 gph. I was expecting much more. Am I restricting the flow to much with the 5/8" tubing?
<Yes, likely so>
I looked at the filters they are capable of 3/4" pipe fittings but my LifeGuard heater module
<These have unfortunately some troubles with flow restriction as well>
and my UV sterilizer are only capable of 1/2" pipe fittings.
<Mmm... I might run two pumps... the Little Giant on/with the heater and UV... the Iwaki for the canisters... but the nature of these last is that they quickly clog... You will/would likely want to add some purposeful circulation here as well... maybe in-tank... Hydor, Tunze...>
I have a about 05' of horizontal movement then about 5' of lift plus a good 10 90 degree fittings.
<Ooomph!>
Will I gain significant volume by increasing the tubing size?
<Not much with what you list here as gear, the distance, head... but worthwhile... Myself? I would switch the canisters out for a refugium and skimmer...>
If so would I use 1" or 3/4" ?
<Whatever the maximum diameter fitting size (OD) is for the gear... likely three quarter... and rigid would be better than flexible...>
Would there be any benefit in T ing it at the pump discharge and having 2 lines one for sump and filters and one for the heater module and uv sterilizer?
<No... as the filter cartridge/s clog (very quickly... I do hope/trust you have two sets... see WWM re...) too little flow will go to/through them>
With maybe a gate valve to get the flow I want thru each. Or should I just be happy and add a powerhead or 2 ?
Thanks for all your time and effort !
Curt
<Again, I'd switch out this filter gear for more appropriate. Please read on WWM... Bob Fenner>

Re: Proper Tubing size  8/6/07
I hear what you are saying as far as the filters are concerned but please remember I had all this right below the tank with more then enough flow. The ocean clear are not cartridge rather one is a polybead filter the other is just stuffed with bio balls rather then the filter pads.
<Ah, thank you for this>
I have ran this set up for over 10 years and never had a clog. So what Im getting from you is a bigger or second pump? correct?
<Yes... and/or the enlarged diameter, rigid conduit change... BobF>

Re: Proper Tubing size  8/6/07
Hi again and first let me say thanks for all the info and help. I was just curious what benefit the rigid tubing has over the flex?
<Generally far less "induced drag" with the rigid... given the same setting>
Im using the reinforced pvc hose. I am on the California central coast so no freezing danger. Is the rigid have a larger Id ?
thanks
<Mmm, I don't think so... they're both nominally whatever ID stated... and the reinforced is far better than the non-... but the ribbing does set up resistant currents... Bob Fenner>

Tank Plumbing...Pipe Diameter/Joint Sealing - 04/02/07
Hi Guys!
<<Hello Jason>>
I am building a closed-system with SCWD for circulation after reading many of your FAQs and articles.
<<Hmm...I think you mean a "closed-loop">>
You guys are great!
<<Glad you think so>>
I hope you can help with some plumbing questions that I tried searching for on your FAQs.
<<I shall try>>
I may be getting an Eheim pump...  If the output valve is 3/4", after reading your FAQs, you've said the piping should be a bit bigger.  Will 1" piping be fine for a 3/4" valve?
<<It will>>
I also read that you guys suggest flexible hose piping to the valves to reduce vibration.
<<Yes>>
Can I just use a clamp with your suggested silicone on the valves?
<<You can, yes...but if you are using the pump in a "submerged" fashion I don't feel you need the silicone>>
When connecting joints that slip, is it fine just to use Silicone to create a seal .. or must I use PVC solvent?
<<Use PVC solvent.  Done correctly this will make a permanent watertight seal, and if you make a mistake...is cheap to "redo">>
Seems to me that if joints are threaded together, you suggest silicone.
<<Ah yes, for "threaded" PVC joints the silicone will do fine...and also allow the connections to be undone when/if necessary.  Though personally, with the exception of seating/sealing bulkhead fittings, I prefer to use Teflon tape for threaded joints...is quick and easy to apply/reapply with no waiting for silicone to cure>>
Thanks guys!
Jason
<<Happy to share.  EricR>>

Toxic tank, not from the tubing  3/6/07
<Hello Richard, Brandon here with you.>
  I am trying to search out the reason for a toxic tank situation.  <I am confused.  Is your tank toxic right now?  If so you should have sent water test results with this e-mail.>  I have "flexible black PVC pipe" in my system.  This is not the corrugated PVC hose, but the semi flexible heavy pipe suitable for pond use and underground burial.  It seems rubberized.  Is it OK for salt water use <Should be.>, and will it stand the test of time, 2 years <You will probably have to replace it at some point.  This type of hose is not that expensive.  I just went through an upgrade.  Relatively easy.  Just go to a hardware store, buy the hose, cut off the pumps/overflow, install and you are up and running in minutes.>, in a salt water system.  Could it leach toxins?  <Not likely.  I have clear plastic tubing, I like to see what is going through it.  I do however, have black flex hose much like you are talking about running from a CPR overflow that I have,  I have had it about a year now with no problems.>
  Thanks
<You are welcome.  Brandon>
  Richard

Leaking Return Line, Hose Clamps are Your Friends   2/20/07
Dear WWM Crew-
<Hi Gina, Mich with you tonight.>
I've tried to find the answer to my problem but I still have a couple of questions.
<Alrighty!>
I have a 75 gallon marine aquarium that was my husband's project. It has been left in my care and have some knowledge regarding the plumbing but I'm not 100% confident that I know what I'm doing.  Last night I was trying to remove the flexible tubing from the return pump so I could clean it. Well I couldn't and gave up. When I turned everything back on I noticed the leak on the other end of the flexible tubing hooked directly to the aquarium.
<Figures!?!>
I tried to tighten it but it didn't help. I went ahead and bought some new flexible tubing identical to what I have at Lowe's. My question is do I need to use some kind of plumber's tape ( the white stuff) when hooking on the new tubing? The end hooked to the pump appears to have it but the opposite end that's leaking, I don't see any.
<Stainless steel or plastic hose clamps, even zip ties are most helpful here.  See the image for stainless steel and plastic hose clamps on this page:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.drsfostersmith.com/images/Categoryimages/largefeatured/1_13152_fs13630s.
jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/NavResults.cfm%3FN%3D62728%2B113833&h=206&w=260&sz=8&hl=en&start=3&tbnid=AJFrzpOlHfvmAM:&tbnh=89&t
bnw=112&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dplastic%2Bhose%2Bclamps%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3
Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26sa%3DG
You local hardware store should carry these and are cheap enough to keep on hand.>  
Also can you walk me through the process so that I don't end up with water all over the place. I simply just want to be prepared as I start disconnecting stuff.
Lucky me I've requested the help of the roommate's fiancé'.  We've never done this before and what I've read so far doesn't really go into detail.  The pump is a mag-drive model of some sort, it sits in the sump submerged in water. There's a valve hooked to the pump & then the tubing is hooked to it. Any helpful info would be appreciated.
<If it were me, I would leave everything as is and simply add the clamp.  These little projects often lead to very big projects, and may become all day events.  I've learned to leave well enough alone.  It's hard to tell you exactly what to do without seeing the set up.  But generally, If you do decide to go ahead, gather some towels, hose clamps, zip ties and plumbing tape.  If you have at least four hands you can lift the Mag drive from the water and allow if it to blow air through the lines.  You do not want to allow it to run dry for long, but long enough to rid the line of water.  Then turn off the pump, and remove the return line from the tank.  Be careful of back siphoning, which hopefully will be avoid if the line are filled with air.  Switch out the tubing and keep your fingers crossed that there are no leaks.  You may have to run the flexible tubing under hot water to make it, well, flexible enough to replace.  The clamps may help solve potential leaking issues, just be careful not to over tighten. Sometime two hose clamps placed a small distance apart are needed to ensure a water tight seal.  Good luck!>    
Thank You! -Gina
<You're welcome, -Mich>

Hard Plumbing...Soft Plumbing...Pump Intakes...Bulkheads – 10/18/06
Hi Crew, (not sure who is on duty).
<<EricR here>>
Thank you for my lighting help.
<<Don’t know who that was but I’m sure you are quite welcome>>
I now received the rest of my equipment and am on the plumbing.  I am setting up my 90g reef tank.  It is an AGA Mega Flow.  Of course the space I have in the cabinet is not enough for my sump and two Blueline external pumps.
<<A common scenario>>
One pump is for circulation and the other is for my skimmer.  I originally planned on using PVC pipe. I don't have much room on the suction side of either pump unless I use 90 degree elbows, or I use the reinforced tubing with a hose barb and do a kind of a circular loop from the sump and back down to the intake of the pump.  Are either of these methods ok or not ok?
<<Either will likely work fine, but I like the smoother turns of the “looped” tubing.  Maybe you could use “Spa Flex” tubing (flexible PVC) rather than vinyl tubing (less chance for kinking/collapsing).  If you decide on the “hard” PVC, use two 45-degree ells to make a turn rather than a single 90-degree ell as this will cause less restriction>>
I had always heard that you shouldn't restrict on the suction side of a pump.
<<The line should be as straight/unobstructed as possible, yes...but a turn or two shouldn’t be a problem>>
Does either of these two methods constitute restriction?
<<Not in the sense that installing a valve would>>
I know you lose PSI for each elbow on the discharge side, but is same true or similar on the suction side?
<<Not so much an issue of PSI as GPH...the fact the water is “falling” to the pump helps a bit>>
I also heard a good method with these pumps is to use the flexible tubing on the intake and put the pumps on a mouse pad as this will reduce the vibration that you would get from using PVC and having the pump on the bottom of the wooden cabinet floor.
<<Indeed...a short length of flexible tubing on both input and output nozzles can help dampen vibration of the plumbing...and like you mention, a mouse pad/piece of carpet/carpet pad can reduce vibration noise transmitted to the cabinet>>
Of course to use this method I would have to use a 90 degree hose barb.  Lastly, I was surprised to see that the Mega Flow tank came with bulkheads with hose-barb ends as one unit.
<<Yes...cheesy/cheap>>
Why did they make that decision for the hobbyist or am I missing something here?
<<For the same reason they decided to install throughputs that are still too small and yet call them “Mega Flow”>>
Can the hose barb part be cut off and a slip fitting be put in?
<<Best to replace the bulkhead altogether>>
It looks like it is 3/4" intake and 1" out.
<<Yep...too small and not enough>>
Thank you in advance.
Regards,
Ken
<<Happy to assist, Eric Russell>>

R2: Hard Plumbing...Soft Plumbing...Pump Intakes...Bulkheads - 10/20/06
Hi Eric,
<<Hello Ken>>
Thanks again.
<<Always welcome>>
Few more questions if it is ok?
<<Sure>>
What do you suggest that I use from my 1" bulkhead return to my sump in terms of piping or tubing.  The bulkhead is pretty much right on top of the sump.  Do I use PVC straight down, or angle it somewhat, or tubing.
<<I would use rigid PVC straight in to the sump with a 45-degree ell on the end positioned just below the water's surface.  The ell helps to clear bubbles so they aren't trying to go back up the pipe/creating resistance like a "straight-in shot" would>>
I am asking the question based on what may be the quietest with the standpipe in the tank.
<<Understood>>
I thought I read somewhere that straight down was not the best option.
<<Thus the reason for the ell/for placing the output below the surface>>
When I fill the tank with water the first time and run the system to check for leaks:
A) Can I keep this water and go with it or do I need to change it due to new tank, tubing, piping, etc.
<<Should be fine to "keep">>
I was wondering if there is anything that could be bad for the live rock or livestock once I stock the tank?
<<Mmm...be sure to follow proper cycling protocol for newly established systems>>
B) How long can I run the system without lighting (except room lighting) without putting anything into the tank?
<<Theoretically speaking...indefinitely...but I like to put light on my rock while curing/cycling the tank, and let the natural algae progression take its course>>
I was wondering if I would get algae if I ran it for a couple of three days with nothing in it, as I am not sure what day I am getting my rock.
<<No matter...will happen eventually>>
I used to use Reef Crystals many years ago when I had a reef tank. Is this still good?
<<Will be fine>>
My tank is 90 gallons with a Marine Technical Concepts HSA-1000 skimmer, and their Pro-Cal calcium reactor, Maristar HQI (2x250 watts) and T5 (2x54 watts), and two Tunze Turbelle Stream 6000's with controller.  How many pounds of live rock do I need?
<<I like to go with a "bit less" than most would suggest for reasons of aesthetics/giving the organisms room to move around/grow.  I would start with about 60lbs of a premium rock and make adjustments as need from there>>
Is it 1.5 lbs per gallon or less than that?
<<A useless measurement in my opinion...to many variables (weight of the rock, type system/ancillary equipment employed, species/type animals, etc.)>>
It is supposed to be Fiji.
<<Should be fine...though some regard this rock as "bargain" rock>>
It is from LFS and it is as cured as you are going to see from a store.
<<I would still expect/allow for this in your tank...albeit likely diminished>>
I will also use the packaged live sand too (for aesthetics mostly), maybe about 3/4" or so (depth ok?).
<<Yes>>
Is the Carib-Sea live sand or the Nature's Ocean a better choice?
<<Waste of money in my opinion...use dry aragonite and let the rock seed the sand>>
Is there a certain grain size that I should be using, and do I have to put this under the rock or can I put the rock in the tank first, and then the sand up to it?
<<A mix of grades from sugar-size to 2mm is fine...and yes, for stability placing the rock on the tank bottom and then adding the sand works fine>>
I think I used up my quota of questions.  Thank you so much for your help.
<<No worries mate...we're here to help>>
Regards,
Ken
<<Be chatting.  Eric Russell>>

Hard Plumbing... Soft Plumbing... Pump Intakes... Bulkheads - 10/19/06
Hi Eric,
<<Hello Ken>>
Thanks for the response.
<<Quite welcome>>
In between I sent you my email and saw your response I had discovered the world of flexible PVC.
<<Ah...>>
I used this with PVC glue.
<<Yep>>
I used 3/4" and 1" for my two pumps.  I did a smooth curve (not a loop).
<<Excellent>>
It probably took 15" -18" to make the smooth curve.  I would imagine that this should be ok?
<<Will be fine>>
Does this stuff definitely hold?
<<If you installed it correctly, yes...is as strong or stronger than schedule-40 PVC hard pipe>>
I also put a union on the suction side.  Is this ok?
<<Yes...and a good idea to facilitate maintenance of the pump>>
I figure that in case I ever have to take the pump out this would be the simplest.
<<Indeed>>
I would imagine that I should put a ball valve somewhere on the discharge side.  What do you think?
<<I agree, but not a ball-valve...instead install a "gate-valve" as this will give you a much finer control of the flow.  You should also consider placing a union between the pump-discharge and the gate-valve for the same reason you placed one on the intake side of the pump>>
I know some people would say put a valve on both ends of the pump due to sump drainage if the pump is removed but I could always take some PVC pipe and a 90 degree elbow and some more pipe and put it higher than the water line.
<<If this is your "return pump" it should not be an issue as you should have the sump plumbed in such a way as to hold all the transient water when the pump is off.  Thus, once you turn off the pump and allow the tank to drain down, water from the drain line/pump intake line wouldn't be a problem>>
I am trying to keep as many "add-ons" out of my plumbing.
<<Always good>>
Of course I need to lose some gph anyway since the pump is rated at 790 GPH at 5-feet of head and the tank can only handle 600 GPH.
<<No worries, the gate-valve will allow any final adjustment if necessary...and I think you will find that 600 GPH will be too much for the single 1" drain to handle easily>>
One more question about the standpipe with the Mega Flow.
<<Okay>>
Is this noisy?
<<Usually, yes...you will probably want to consider a modification.  Do a Google search re "Durso Standpipe" or "Stockman Standpipe"...I think both offer "kits" for these now>>
I was curious why I read about people switching to the Durso standpipe.  Do you have any ideas on this?
<<Indeed...most hobbyists find the "stock" standpipes supplied by the tank manufacturers to be about as inadequate as the throughputs themselves>>
Also, is there a trick to "tuning" either of these standpipes?
<<Should be listed on the respective websites, but generally, aspirating the drains sometimes proves helpful>>
Oh yea, and I did replace the two bulkheads that came with the tank.
<<Ah, very good>>
Thanks a lot.
Regards,
Ken
<<Pleased to share, EricR>>

Pool hose use
Dear WetWebMedia Crew,
Is pool hose safe for use as drain lines for overflow boxes?  The drain lines that came with my overflows are not long enough, and the pool hose at Home Depot is less  expensive than the replacement overflow hoses.
Sincerely,
Jason
<My experience has been that all these types of hose are safe for biological systems. If/when in doubt though, get the company/manufacturer name and contact them re specific use. Bob Fenner>