Question on Q/T Filtration
>Hello, I have read through many of the FAQs regarding qt.
>>Hello and let the coolness ensue!
>However, one question still remains.
>>Hotay.
>If one was to use a sponge filter or BioWheel filter that has been seeded by the main display by sitting it in the sump, to allow colonization of bacteria, and then use it in the QT.
>>Yes?  Yes yes?
>Question is, if the QT has an outbreak of some sort what do you use to sterilize the sponge or BioWheel in order to safely put it back in sump for recolonization, or should one just stick to using sponges as they are inexpensive and use a new one for each qt session?
>>Aahh!  Believe it or not this HAS been answered, but I realize there is MUCH to slog through.  I am a frugal woman, and don't like to throw things out.  One can bleach (then dechlorinate properly - either by airing out well or chemically dechlorinating), or, if you can afford it and don't mind adding to the landfill buy new sponges.  If you use COPPER, though, I would DEFINITELY toss them if they've been exposed.
>Also, if there was no outbreak, in the qt and no meds were used, could you just place the sponge right back in the main display sump?
>>Yes!  Boy O boy, you ROCK.
>Thank you in advance, Peter
>>Much welcome, Peter.  Marina

Question on Q/T Filtration - II
>Any Risk of introducing the sponge back into the sump (if no meds were used but an outbreak occurred)? Can a good fresh water rinse take care of it? and air dry?
>>Hi Peter, no, I wouldn't risk it.  I would sterilize with bleach.  Marina

QT Crowd and Ammonia (1/13/2004)
Hi Crew,
I currently have my new fish in a 10 gallon QT have been there for 3 days. <I take it these are new fish you are quarantining, not ill fish you are trying to treat.>
Coral Beauty 2-3"
Blennies Salarias fasciatus x2
Yellow-Tailed Blue Tang 2-3"
I used water from my display and a small rock from the display for my biofilter and a place for them to hide. <not enough biofilter>
Because of the crowd I have been executing 3 gallon daily water changes with new salt mix. However I am battling ammonia (keeps jumping to .5). <Argh>
Should I do larger water changes? <Not more than 50%.>
I was planning a 3 week stint in the tank, I know this is a must for the Coral and the Tang, but could I remove the Blennies earlier to the display to reduce the bio load? <Better not to.>
Any other Ideas, how about a chemical ammonia reducer <If your fish seem mal-affected, it would not be bad to use one dose of Amquel Plus as a last resort.> or adding some bacteria like "Cycle"? <You do need to increase your biofilter in there right away. A sponge filter would be good. Seed with Bio-Spira Marine if you can get it--provides almost instant cycling. Costs $20 per little pouch and is kept refrigerated at the store. You could put the extra in your main tank. "Cycle" takes weeks. In my QT I use a combination heater/sponge filter I bought at PetSmart. Quite a handy gadget actually.>
Also, is there any way I can put the rock back in the display after the cycle, or should I just let it die and use it for a little house for future QT use? <We generally recommend PVC fittings rather than LR for shelter in QT. There is always some small risk that these fish might leave some parasites behind on that piece of LR. If you can leave it in the QT with no fish for 6 weeks, then you can be rather confident that there are no cysts on it.> Thank you for your time and this forum. KR  <A pleasure.>

QT Crowd and Ammonia - Sorting it Out
>Marina,
I'm sorry, you misunderstand me the fish for the new QT are the fish already in my display.
>>Ah, alright!
>i.e.:
Maculosus Angel tank bred (3-4")
1 Yellow Tang (3")
4 Clownfish Amphiprion ocellaris tank bred (1-1.5 ")
1 Starcki damsel (3")
2 Neon Gobies
I've purchased this second QT (30 gallon long, with skimmer, filter and heater) to remove them from the display, treat and run the display fallow for 6 weeks. I am not buying more fish, that's all I need right now. I purchased the 4 fish "currently" in regular QT before I knew of the outbreak. I also have purchase a larger tank for these fish as well, since this is gonna take awhile.
>>Ok.. WHEW!  I was trying to sort everything out there, and it sounded for all the world as though you had all these fish in the q/t.  Gotcha.
>By the way my display is a 210 gallon, should be enough room for these guys once they are squared away right?
>>Absolutely.  If I understand you then, the Hippo tang will be being established before the yellow?  They should mix alright (the angels should be good, too), do watch the Starcki damsel  for aggression, too (glad it's only one!).  You can add a few more neon gobies, I love these little fish for their low bioload demands AND propensity to act as cleaners.
>Thank you for your time and advise. I will follow the quarantine plan to the letter.  Kurt
>>I think you have also been answered by Adam, I haven't read the full outline, but I believe we may pretty much jive.  Good luck!  Marina 

QT Crowd and Ammonia - II (The Unknown answerer?)
>Well, Looks like I started the QT tank too late. My Yellow Tang and several of my Clownfish appear to have ich.
>>This makes the use of quarantine apparent.  Here they can be treated much more easily than in a display.
>Did not quarantine the first batch. I will NEVER add another fish without the use of a QT.  
>>You don't know how often I read this.  Wise words.
>I'm going out tomorrow to purchase another QT. Here are the fish going into it.
>>Why are you getting MORE fish when you have yet to get the first batch through treatment and subsequent 30 days quarantine?  SLOW DOWN, mate!
>1 Maculosus Angel tank bred (3-4")
>1 Yellow Tang (3")
>4 Clownfish Amphiprion ocellaris tank bred (1-1.5 ")
>1 Starcki damsel (3")
>2 Neon Gobies
>Would a 30 gallon do, or should I go for a 40 or 50 gallon?
>>Get three or four Rubbermaid tubs, they're about 30 gallons each.  You're stuffing way too many fish into the first q/t tank, you've got two angels and two tangs (these fish CAN be mixed, but deal with one thing at a time, my friend) on this list.. too much too fast.  30 days q/t!  And that means get them through 30 days CLEAN, not treated as part of the 30 day counter, and as soon as you *think* they're clean put 'em in the display.  It means once they are disease free the 30 day counter starts again.  Show signs again?  Treat (with copper, hypo - the first line I would recommend - or Formalin), then when clean start the counter over again.
>My plan is to catch, FW dip and treat with copper for 2 the prescribed period.
>>I highly recommend the f/w dips (with Methylene blue).  Have you considered using hyposalinity as a treatment instead?  You've got a LOT of fish on your plate there, <hee!> you could end up with disastrous results when trying to copper all those fish at once.  Not to mention, how are you going to add these animals to the display?  Are you keeping your bacterial cultures active and in proper proportions for the coming bioload?
>At the same time, allow my tank (with inverts) run fallow for 6 weeks with
a decreased salinity and increased temp.  
>>Oh my goodness, NO, do NOT use hypo with inverts!  You are definitely on the right track with the hypo AND fallowing.  Run the display fallow for at LEAST 8 weeks, be sure to drop in a bit of raw shrimp every week to keep whatever nitrifiers you currently have fed.  During this time keep the display at normal salinity, though.
>Should I do the same to the hospital tanks (increase temp and lower SG).  Anything I am missing?
>>My apologies, it's very difficult to start where someone else has left off here.. but let me try.  Hyposalinity (read with a refractometer at 1.007 - 1.010) in the QUARANTINE tanks - fish can take this, inverts CAN'T.  Fallow the display for 8 weeks, elevated temperature will help speed up lifecycle of C. irritans.  Find articles by Steven Pro and Terry Bartelme (we do disagree on some things, for instance, efficacy of f/w dipping with fish infected with ich.  I feel it is of some benefit, especially if water has Methylene blue in it.  Also, dip must be sufficiently long duration).  READ those, these men have done scads of research.  Stop buying fish until you have THIS present problem eradicated!  Get thee thine own Rubbermaid tubs (unless you can afford to buy actual aquariums), along with at least two large trash cans and black trash bags (just the plain old black plastic trash bags) for liners.  Extra heaters for said tubs and cans.  Keep both trash cans filled with make up water for water changes.  PVC elbows and chunks for hiding places for the fish - once infection is there you do NOT want anything porous in there.
>Will read further.  Thanks for all your wonderful help.  Sigh.... Kurt
>>Ok, this is a follow-up to a previously answered query, don't know by whom.  I feel there are some issues from the previous answer that need to be addressed.
">I currently have my new fish in a 10 gallon QT have been there for 3 days.
Coral Beauty 2-3"
Blennies Salarias fasciatus x2
Yellow-Tailed Blue Tang 2-3" "
>>Alright, BIG problem going on here.  You threw ALL these fish into a TEN gallon tank all at once (2 of these species are very active fish, too). No can do.  This is a recipe for disaster (as you're learning).  You need to either separate these animals into their own q/t tanks (doesn't even need to be a proper aquarium, can be as simple as a Rubbermaid tub) or put them into something about three times larger.  But now it's an even bigger problem because you now have disease and are adding MORE fish.  You MUST slow down with this, even in a 30 gallon tub your new fish list is not to be endeavored without MUCH previous experience.  Don't purchase these new fish UNTIL you get what you presently have through q/t, PLEASE!  Now we move on to the following:
"> Because of the crowd I have been executing 3 gallon daily water changes with new salt mix. However I am battling ammonia (keeps jumping to .5).  <Arrgh> "
>>This is to be expected.
" > Should I do larger water changes? <Not more than 50%.> "
>>Ok, as I said before, I don't know who answered this for you, but this is incorrect.  Water changes of 100% can be done, and if need be SHOULD be done.  At this point, because you now have ich present I want your q/t to be entirely bare-bottomed.  There are a few reasons for this, one of which is that you're going to siphon off the bottom of the q/t EVERY DAY to remove dropped parasites.  By doing THIS, you will also be controlling the ammonia levels that ARE going to rise.  As long as the make up water is matched for pH, and if not temperature matched then a little warmer is fine, you'll be golden.  You'll need the refractometer to make CERTAIN you've got this low salinity level, swing arm and float hydros are not going to cut it here.  Feed your fish the best you can feed BEFORE you siphon.  If you feel you must use copper, then know that you may need to take it as high as 30ppm, be SURE you have the proper test kit for the type of medication you're using (chelated vs. non-chelated).  There, I think we've covered most of the bases.  Puhleeze slow down on fish acquisitions, mate, you need to let everything catch up here.  Also, for the numbers and types of fish you listed, I'm really hoping we're looking at a system of 180 gallons or better.  Knowledge is power.  Marina

QT Crowd and Ammonia - What is This?
>Hi Marina,
>>Hi Kurt!
>It's me again, sorry to bother you.
>>Don't be sorry, please.  We're here for this very purpose.
>Anyway, not knowing precisely what ich looks like, I had the owner of my LFS come out to have a look see. He claims that is not ick, but marine velvet....nice.
>>Don't be so quick to think that's what it is.
>None of the fish are in distress as of yet, but we are moving fast and wanted to run this by you.
>>That's a KEY statement, as the first sign of velvet (Amyloodinium) is severe STRESS, rapid gilling, staying on the bottom of the tank, not feeding.  Plus, this disease moves FAST.  However, ich or velvet, much of the treatment remains the same.
>We set up 40 gallon (traded in the 30, figured better for the fish)
>>Absolutely bigger is better.
>..with a aerator, skimmer and mechanical filter all in one with a seeded sponge for biofilter.
>>Um.. how are you going to medicate for velvet if it's being removed by skimming?  How's the biological filter going to keep going if it's killed by the treatment (and it will be)?
>Bare bottom with some PVC pipe for some tiny hotels.
>>Perfect.
>Using "SeaCure" which contains, copper sulphate and acid.
>>"Acid"..  I prefer Cupramine for coppering, but in any event, DO get a copper test kit!  Know that your biological filter is useless when coppering.  DO do the f/w dips with Methylene blue!
>Do you know of this product.
>>Not terribly familiar.
>Also plan to slowly lower the specific gravity to 1.012.
>>Not quite low enough to eradicate ich or velvet, not sure if it should be used in conjunction with the copper.  If your fish are not showing signs of stress, I would try holding off on the copper and go 1.010 on the salinity.
>Plan to catch the fish (should be fun with 170lbs of rock).
>>Heh.. your LFS guy should be real good with the net.  However, a tip or two; move as much of the rock as possible so that you have at least 1/3 - 1/2 the tank open.  A piece of tank divider, egg crate, acrylic (anything the fish can't swim through or around) will be used to block off.  If it's opaque that's even better (they WILL be watching and the last ones will be THE most difficult to catch!).  You may very well end up having to remove rock, see if the LFS guy will let you use some of his solid Styro boxes (you can partially fill them with water to keep the rock wet).
>Freshwater dip them and place them in the QT.
>>Check - include the Meth blue.
>Follow up with 2 weeks (would 3 be better, thought may be to rough on the Tang) of copper treatment and fresh water dips every few days, as long as they tolerate.
>>If you're set on coppering, this is prudent.  Know also that Formalin is an excellent treatment for both ich and velvet.  
>Allow the  tank to run fallow for 6 weeks and see what happens.
>>After that two weeks treating, 30 days clean is the rule.
>See any problems with any of my fish for this treatment?
>>Only as outlined above.  If they've got velvet, you will KNOW it FAST.
>Maculosus Angel tank bred (3-4")
1 Yellow Tang (3") (copper tolerant?)
>>They'll be fine - it's long term coppering that harms most fish (outside of froggies, which canNOT be coppered at all).
>4 Clownfish Amphiprion ocellaris tank bred (1-1.5 ")
1 Starcki damsel (3")
2 Neon Gobies
2 scooter blennies ( read that they cannot handle copper)
>>I wouldn't copper them at all.
>Or would formaldehyde do better for treatment?
>>That's the Formalin I've mentioned.  If you opt for this, DO use gloves to handle it and the water, it's a known carcinogen if I recollect correctly.
>Look forward to your input.
>>Why thank you, I'm hoping that you get your fish through this cleanly.  Do remember to feed the tank (keep up your bacterial cultures).
>Best regards, Kurt
>>Be chatting, keep us updated.  Marina

Update on "The Plan" - QT Crowd and Ammonia
>Actually slight modifications after much ready.
>>It's good to be flexible.
>Updated plan.
>>Lay it on me.
>Pull fish , FW dip with Meth Blue.
>>Check.
>Into the QT without the skimmer.
>>Ok (skimming is fine if you're NOT medicating, btw).
>Hold off on copper, instead lower salinity (should I do this gradual) 1.010 and raise temp 83-4.  Couple this with daily FW dips with Meth Blue.
>>The salinity can be lowered over the course of a couple of days, I like a slow drip, but you'd need to make a device.  Very easily done with silicone (or waterproof epoxy), an airline valve, and a plastic jug (2 liter soda bottle, milk jug, something like that).  Just make your hole to fit, silicone in place, add airline, set drip rate.  Voila.
>If this doesn't do it, add copper.
>>That or the Formalin (though you already have the copper).  If your fish aren't severely stressed by now, I very much doubt it's velvet you're dealing with.  Be thankful for small favors.
>The copper scares me and the fish are not that sick yet.
Thanks again, Kurt
>>Understood.  I honestly think that between the hypo and daily dips (don't leave out siphoning off the bottom of the tank after dipping and feeding - you can do this with a bit of airline tubing for better control), and the fallowing, you should be golden.  The fish will be doing MUCH better in a 40 gallon, but you will likely be forced to do the water changes on a rather large scale.  Good news is that you CAN use a sponge filter for bio-filtration, the hypo won't  kill off the bacteria the way the meds will.  You can also skim, it just won't be quite as efficient.  I like your plan, Kurt!  If the copper can be avoided, let's do try.  Marina

Update on "The Plan" - QT Crowd and Ammonia II
>Hi Marina,
>>Hi Kurt.  Nice to hear from you again.
>An update with pictures and a opinion please.
>>Hhmm.. gotta look for those pics..
>Moved all the fish Saturday to the 40 gallon with a 6-8 minute dip each with Meth blue.
>>Excellent.
>All are doing great, eating well and acting like their old
selves. The have been without symptoms  since, so I have delayed copper or hyposalinity. Attached are pick of my Clownfish, Maculosus Angel and my Yellow Tang. If you look closely at the Tangs dorsal fin, you will see the spot that first alarmed us. The dip nor manipulation would remove it. It neither moves nor grows, I have the feeling it doesn't amount to much.
>>You've attached a very good image, and I happen to have pretty good vision (20/13), but I can't see anything on the yellow tang's dorsal that appears out of the ordinary from this picture.
>None of the other fish have a mark on them. The few small dots on the Clowns and the slight misting on the Maculosus caudal fins, (which my LFS owner told me was velvet) are gone and have not returned.
>>Right, the picture isn't so clear (seems that angel is married to the PVC, eh?), but what I can see all appears well.
>The thought has crossed my mind that he just wanted to sell me more goods.. who knows.
>>That, or he didn't want an animal you'd purchased from him to die.  <shrug>
>If things remain the same I believe my best course of action would be to just keep them there for the 4-6 weeks, observe and treat if necessary.
>>Agreed.  Indeed.  If you haven't already, do search on Google for Cryptocaryon irritans, you will find several EXCELLENT articles with detailed descriptions of lifecycles.  This is to warn you that it may reappear (I'm assuming you know this, but since this is "published" we like to add reminders to readers).  However, your vacuuming daily does help with removal.
>I have been executing daily 10 gallon water changes, vacuuming the bottom.
>>Fantastic!
>Now for my problem. As you know (see below) I have a Hippo Tang and a Coral Beauty in another QT. (I got them before the other fiasco began)
>>Right (plus including your previous is helpful).
>I have attached a pic of each. The Hippo is showing a few dark colored dots on the lower half of her body and is going nuts scratching.  She has also injured 1 of her eyes, I assume from the scratching. I am treating this with Epsom salt.  The Beauty is also twitching and scratching her gills on the PVC. I also attached a pic of her. I understand that the Beauty responds
poorly to copper and the Tang also ( will never quarantine more than 1 fish again!!)  
>>There are many folks who make this assertion, I have not had troubles with either genus/species.  It's long-term exposure that will cause troubles, but again, F/W dips and hyposalinity MAY be all that's needed.  I would start dropping the salinity at this point.  However, I cannot really make out any dark spots.  So I'm going to shoot from the hip, as it were; if the spots appear to be essentially just like ich, but black, then what you may have is something known as "black spot" or "black ich".  I would be rather surprised, knowing that they'd been dipped, but it could happen.  Of the parasitic diseases I've dealt with in the past, this is BY FAR the easiest to eradicate - F/W dips (which you've done) and hyposalinity are in order.
>Thinking dips and Formalin treatment. Your thoughts would be
appreciated.
>>Try dips and hypo FIRST, then if it continues, say, another week, then go with Formalin.  I think you're on the right track, and I notice that ALL FISH appear quite FAT, well-rounded bellies and dorsal regions.
>Muchos gracias for all your help. If you're ever in Cleveland, I owe you a drink.  Kurt
>>De nada, mi amigo.  I'm a teetotaler (can't take a drop or I get SICK), but I'll take a soda or tea any day of the week!  I'd have to hit the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame out there, wouldn't I?  Isn't there a football Hall of Fame there, too?  (Jebiz, I ought to know this..)  Marina

High Nitrites in Q/T - To Be Expected
>Good evening,
>>Hello Kurt, Marina again.
>10 days ago I was forced to move my fish out of my 210 gallon display into quarantine due to an ich attack.
>>Yes, I remember.
>I purchased a 40 gallon QT and put in the following
1 Maculosus Angel 3-4"
1 Coral Beauty 3"
1 Yellow Tang 3"
1 Starcki Damsel 3"
4 Clownfish 1.5"
2 Scooter Blennies 2"
Yes I know it is crowded, but it's the largest tank I could afford right now. I am running a Skilter filter with a skimmer using a sponge seeded from my sump and running a carbon filter.
The fish are clear of ich after several FW dips and everyone appears healthy X 6 days. No meds at this time.
>>So the hyposalinity did the trick?
>My problem is a battle with water quality.
>>Yes, to be expected.  
>pH 8.2
Ammonia 0
Nitrate 10
Nitrite.5
Water temp 80 degrees.
I have added 2 doses of Bio-Spira which brought down the ammonia and am executing 10 gallon daily water changes. Could the water changes be interrupting the cycling?  
>>A bit, yes, but they're necessary to ensure the fish are under as little stress as possible.
>I am feeding very lightly mostly with Nori, but I do need a little frozen food, not everyone eats the Nori. I however vacuum the tank and do the water change right after the feeding time. Any ideas on what to do?
>>I'm afraid you're rather married to the water changes, Kurt.  I hope I'd mentioned this during our earlier correspondences, but may have neglected to do so.  My apologies.
>I really do not want to put the fish back in the display until the 4-5 week fallow time is up.
>>Absolutely agreed!
>Since I'm not dosing with meds, should I get 10 or so lbs of cured rock?
>>Because you're dealing with ich, I personally would recommend against it.
>Or maybe another dose of Bio Spira or possibly forgo the water changed for a few days?  I appreciate you help.  Thank you! Kurt
>>As noted above, less stress, and you want to provide NO footholds for the ich protozoa.  I would continue with water changes, monitor levels, WATCH the fish.  Marina

High nitrites in QT - II
>Hi Marina,
>>Hi Kurt.
>Glad you replied again. Actually I never needed to lower salinity. Whatever is was has disappeared, so it seems.
>>Let's hope it remains so, but I'm curious as to how long it's been "gone".
>My biggest concern is the Nitrites.
>>Indeed.
>I am beginning to see a bit of fin deterioration on 2 of the fish and the Coral Beauty must have injured an eye from scratching, it is inflamed, actually popped out a bit.
>>If the fish is scratching, then *please* do lower the salinity and treat as though for parasitic infection with hypo.  It won't hurt the fish to undergo this, and may actually help.  It will also make water changes a bit less costly since you won't be having to use so much salt mix.
>I am treating with Epson salt, hopefully that will do it.  
>>That and the water changes, AND the hypo.
>I dosed with the  Bio Spira and  turned the skimmer off for a
day to hopefully spur a cycle in the tank.  Any other suggestions?
>>I honestly would NOT make the fish endure a full cycle - there's a reason why we generally no longer cycle with fish, it really is quite stressful.  Water changes are to be expected, and they will be your (and your fishes') salvation.
>Am watching my guys like a hawk.
>>Or is that a Hawkfish? ;)
>Thanks for all of your advice.
>>You're very welcome, Kurt.  Marina
>Kurt

Sponge filter in QT 2/5/04
Hi, I'm back.  I have been reading about the QT's and I want to purchase a filter for a 20 gal. glass tank that I have.  I am new to the hobby and also kinda confused.  In almost all the FAQ's it states that a sponge filter is best for a QT.  What is a sponge filter?  What are some brand names? In one FAQ Anthony recommends the AquaClear Powerfilter for a QT.  Shortly thereafter, a writer stated that she was planning on getting a AquaClear Powerfilter and Steven Pro stated that "I would prefer a sponge filter".  I was thinking that the AquaClear was a sponge filter...
Please help... very confused.  
<it is as literal as it sounds my friend. Various filter styles employ a coarse foam block to pass/filter water through. In some cases like the Aquaclear, the water is forced through by a motor/water pump... in others it is lifted through by air like an undergravel filter tube. Either would be fine>
So, could you please provide me with a few brand names for "sponge filters".  
<The Aquaclear filter is one choice for motor driven... and Tetra and Jungle brands both make popular air driven "sponge filters". A look inside any mail order catalog or most local fish stores will make this all clear>
On the same subject, I was thinking about getting an Eclipse Hood 2 for the QT.  I don't suppose this is a sponge filter.  Would this be a good choice for a QT?   
<it is nice perhaps... but more expensive than it needs to be. And the light fixture is also optional with many QT applications. With some stressed fishes, bright light is to be avoided during the short stay in QT>
Thanks a million in advance.  Dan
PS.  Thanks for all the help that you and your team provide to all of us "needy people".  Have a good night.
<thanks kindly, my friend. Best of luck, Anthony>

- Quarantine Water Quality -
I recently set up a QT tank because I noticed my maroon clown with a cluster of small white dots one of the fins.  The white dots (I am guessing is ick) are only located on this one particular fin.  I thought this was
kinda strange.  The QT tank has been running for about one week.  I took water from another tank that is ick free and topped it off with fresh water. I took a sample of the water to the local pet store to get my water
sampled.  The ammonia and nitrate level was high.  I did do a water change the day before.  I am treating the tank with quick cure.  I was using Greenex but it did not seem to help.  Is this normal for my nitrate and
ammonia level to be this high. <Yes... the Quick Cure and Greenex are both toxic enough to stall any biological filtration that might have come in from the other system's water. Once you have a fish in quarantine, you need to perform very frequent water changes, on the order of 25% a day to 50% every other day - whichever works for you, along with frequent tests to see if you need to step up the water changes.
Cheers, J -- >

Quarantine Tank Filtration - 3/10/2003
Hello, I have a few seemingly random questions.
<Ok, shoot.>
I have a 55 gallon, with a 10 gallon hospital tank.  My question is filtration on the 10 gal.  I am currently using a Skilter 250 that was on my main tank (got rid of it and upgraded to a CPR skimmer).  The Skilter was there for about 2 months.  Is this sufficient for the quarantine tank?  
<Yes, a Skilter 250 should be more than sufficient for a 10 gallon.  However, if you do use any medications or treatments requiring the removal of carbon, don’t forget to take the black pads out of the Skilter cartridge.>
I also have a power head in it because my hippo tang with ick likes the strong current.  
<Ok.  Whatever makes him happy.>
Next, is it okay to have the qt tank directly on the floor?  I have hardwood floors and was wondering if vibrations from footsteps would bother the livestock in the tank..  
<Too much activity could cause more stress for an already weak fish, but unless you have kids jumping up and down right in front of it, I highly doubt there would be any problem with it.  Harder to get a good siphon going when you need it though!>
Finally, my CPR produces about ½ cup of dark green liquid daily.  I was under the impression that most skim waste was more of a foam.  Is it normal, or as effective if the only waste I am getting is liquid?
<It’s the foam carrying the waste into the collection cup, but the bubbles break and accumulates as a liquid.  It’s working just fine.>
Thank you!!!
<Not a problem!  Enjoy!  Scott V. >
John M. McCarty

Mass Quarantine and Ammonia Levels
After cycling a 90 gallon tank, I noticed one of my starter damsels had developed ich.  I immediately removed him but he soon died.  This is where my big problem lies:  my roommate purchased three fish (two dogface puffers, one about 2" and the other about 4", and a 1.5" Niger trigger) and put them in the main tank (no quarantine or any pretreatment).  I know I know...disaster struck.
<Quarantine roommate from tank. Do not him/her get near it again or you may have another outbreak of shortsightedness/lack of information!>
The trigger has developed ich, and I'm suspect about the little puffer.  I want to set up one quarantine tank for all three fish and run my main tank fallow for a month (specific gravity 1.017 and temp at 82, correct?).
<Not necessary, run normal SG and 83 temp to push process/life cycle of ick along. You may find 2 months is better, a month is pushing it.>
How big of a quarantine tank should I employ to house these three fish (cash and space is an issue) for joint treatment?
<Get a Rubbermaid container the same size as the main, low cost, low light, plenty of room.>
Also, how will I be able to keep the ammonia levels in check?  Will 10-20% water changes everyday be enough?
<Perhaps, test daily to determine need.  Same for copper.>
Will I really need to buy a filtration device, and if so, what
do you recommend (specific products would be very helpful in guiding me along)?
<Any filter to provide mechanical filtration (removal of actual waste/particulate matter). Aqua-clear, Marineland, etc. are fine.>
My main concern is the ammonia since I'm dealing with the three
fish.  I don't have a spare sponge for the bio media unless I use the only one in the main tank which is the prefilter over the wet/dry.  I don't want to use this b/c I don't want to introduce any amt of copper into the main tank when I return the sponge (I'm not an expert so I took my LFS' advice about copper being harmful to eels, inverts, and corals if I ever want to convert to a reef).  Hence, my concern about swapping sponges b/w the main tank and quarantine.
<I would use the sponge and replace it when ready to run main. LFS is right about copper, do be careful to not cross-contaminate.  Sponges are inexpensive.>
I've been reading through the vast info about quarantine procedure on the website, but I was hoping for an alternative to having a spare filter constantly running in the main tank just so I can run the quarantine tank when need be.  Any advice would be helpful.  Thanks. Sandy
<Running a separate filter isn't necessary, the media can be in the wet/dry or hung tank-side at surface to provide bio-activity.
Hope this helps.  Craig>

Qt tank
Hello crew,<IanB here>
I'm using a Skilter 250 for my QT tank, so my question is, how long should I leave the bio cartridge in my main tank so it can establish beneficial bacteria? <I suppose about 2-4 weeks> My main tank is been running for 6 months.<I would leave it in the main aquarium to establish the beneficial bacteria for about 2-4 weeks just to be on the safe side, (you don't want to have nitrites and ammonia readings in your quarantine tank) good luck on your qt tank, IanB>

Quarantine woes.
Hello Kevin,
<Hi!>
 I just went to my fish store to buy water for my main tank to transfer to my qt tank to get started.
And I spoke to my fish guy  about my QT tank and he said, why do you have bio cartridge in your main tank? And I told him to have some bacteria growing on it before I transfer it to my QT tank. And he said If you are going to add medications in your QT tank  its going to kill all your bacteria that you worked to have in your main tank for about a week or two.
<Since this is just a quarantine tank to watch new fish for several weeks before entering the main tank, it really needs to be cycled or you will be battling with toxic ammonia and nitrite. Since you're not treating with anything (I don't recommend any preventative meds like copper sulfate, etc), you don't have to worry about disturbing the biological filter.>
He said it will be better to medicate the water before hand and QT for about 7-8 days. Then intro to your main tank.
<That is completely unnecessary. I wonder what magic medicine he would propose that would cure all potential problems?! Standard quarantine procedure is just to put the fish into a separate tank with water parameters very similar to its ultimate home. You watch the fish for a month or so before introducing it to the main tank. That's it, no treating for anything that you don't know is there.>
So I said to my self how do I know what the fish has to begin with I don't know what medication to add if is not sick? <Exactly my point.> Kevin what should I do? <Don't treat for something that isn't there. Get the quarantine tank cycled with a neon goby or a damsel after putting in your pre-cultured bio material and go from there. Have fun! -Kevin>
THANK SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

Fighting nitrite's in QT tank
>Good afternoon crew,
>>Good morning, Alex, Marina here.    
>I've been doing 20% water changes every day to drop my nitrites down to 0, just like I had them when I first set up my QT tank (10 gallon QT). Right now they are at 0.50 ppm and holding, is that ok?
>>NitrItes?  No, that is too high a reading.  I'm assuming you're using a decent quality test kit as well, something like SeaChem, Salifert.
>The rest of my water is doing fine. Also I'm feeding much lighter every day...Maybe it could be that I only had my Skilter cartridge in my main tank for two weeks only instead of 4 so it can establish beneficial bacteria?
>>Yes, without a full complement of nitrifying bacteria, this would be likely.  You'll get better results changing  50%, or better, of the water.
>Right now I only have a Royal Gramma in my QT tank and he's doing great.
>>Good to know, though he may like enough food to fill his belly.  Do some big water changes so you can feed him well.  This is all part and parcel of quarantine, my friend.
>He's only been there for 1 week.  What can I do to get my nitrites down, or should I ride it with 50ppm and do 10% water changes every day until the QT is up???
>>50% and up is what's going to make a significant change in the readings.  While there certainly are fish that will survive just fine, it is taxing on their health, better to give them a boost during these stressful times.  Also, I'll suggest a regular regimen of added nutrition in the form of Selcon.  I hope this helps!  Marina

Kick-Starting A Quarantine Tank!
I have two (2) QT tanks. A forty and a 20 long.
<YEAH!!! My kind of hobbyist! Scott F., your biggest fan tonight!>
I have a sponge filter in the sump of my 100 gallon that I usually use for the 40 QT when needed. I just got the 20 so I can QT more incoming. Since I will need to wait 4 weeks for another sponge filter to gain the needed bacteria, could I instead use the polishing foam sponge from my wet dry in the 100 or some of the bio balls and put one or both in the 20 to have it up and running sooner.
<If you're going to take these materials from the established tank, then you can certainly put them into an inside box filter or outside power filter, and use this to get the QT up and running until the sponge is ready to go. By the way, I don't think it would take 4 full weeks to get the sponge filter fully "populated". The sponge filter creates an environment where beneficial bacteria multiply like crazy, and usually can be very functional in two weeks or less, in my experience. No harm in waiting for 4 weeks, but I think 2 will do it!>
Or will replacing the sponge in the 100 cause more problems?
<Well, I assume that there are bioballs, or some other form of filter media in the wet/dry...? If this is the case, then replacing the sponge should not be problematic. The impact of replacing it should be negligible, IMO.>
Thanks Always, Randy
<Thanks for writing, Randy! Keep up the good work! Regards, Scott F>

Kick-Starting A Quarantine Tank (Pt.2)
I may not have explained correctly in the first question but I think you did answer my question. I have a 100 gallon display. Wet Dry with bio balls and sponge after the bio balls and before the actual sump area. In the sump I have a sponge filter that I use on the 40 QT tank. Now I also have a 20 QT tank but no extra sponge filter yet (Will pick one up in the morning). But if I get impatient of need the 20 up and running sooner can I use some of the bio balls to kick start the 20 or use the large sponge that is between the bio balls and sump and just put in a new sponge there. The smaller sponge filter waiting in the sump would be in the 40. Any way if I understood you correctly I could throw some bio balls (Hey How Many?) in the back of an emperor (One of many I have) and that would work, or take the sponge out from the wet dry cut it to make it fit and use on the 20. Thanks Again.
<Yep-that's the general idea! I'd use the sponge in the power filter, myself, rather than the bioballs. Good luck! Regards, Scott F>

Feeding  the bio filter in a hospital/quarantine tank
Hi Bob: My Hospital/Quarantine tank is not always in use in fact it may set many weeks between uses. In order to keep the biological filter going strong I need to feed it during times of no animal load. How is the best way to go about this? I am leaning towards ammonium chloride, but do not know how much to use.
As always, your thoughts on this matter is appreciated.
R Luckert
<Best to make water changes from your main tank to the quarantine... and keep your filter media in the main/display tank till you need to use it. Bob Fenner>

Quarantine Tank Cycling
Dear Folks,
I have read through the FAQ's but maybe I'm missing something somewhere.
My QT is 10 gallons and currently has it's first resident, a juvenile Hawaiian Yellow Tang. He's been there for a week, now. The water was sourced from my display tank which is fully cycled. I have undertaken frequent water changes using about 50% freshly made salt water and 50% water from the main tank. I am running an Aquaclear Mini with a sponge filter which previously
dwelled in the sump of the main tank for a month or more. The ammonia levels have never tested very high, but regardless of how many water changes I do (three 40% changes today, for instance), the nitrite levels remain very high.  I am relying on "Prime" to de-toxify the nitrite, but am seriously considering releasing him to the main tank, since he looks just fine and has a healthy appetite.
<Filter may not be truly cycled, too small, or rinsed in tap water? Have you tested your source water for ammonia/nitrite? This is more common than you think. Do not overfeed and clean mechanical portion of filter daily.
Is this tank ever going to cycle without a substrate? Will PVC fittings harbor enough bacteria within the tank to control the nitrite levels? Do I need a bigger filter than the "Mini"? Is this fish gonna croak from quarantining?
<The filter should be cycled, if not it was done-in someway or is too small (I can't imagine that for a 10 gallon QT) I suspect tank/source water. He won't if you can get him into some waste free water for another week or so to make sure he isn't infested with ick or.... You have to wait longer than the gestation period.>
I'm a newbie and I'm trying to learn as I go, but I find the "wealth" of commentary rather overwhelming when I'm looking for answers to specific questions. Every Q seems to have twenty A's, each with it's own set of ancillary Q's.
Thank you for your time,  Sincerely, Jerry
<That's for the FAQ's Jerry! Try searching on specific subjects. In your case, searching on Quarantine will yield quarantine FAQ's and also specific articles on quarantine. Go to the specific articles to get all the info at once! I sure hope this helps you and your fish! Test your source water and see if it isn't coming from there.  Craig>

QT sponge filter is the way to go 2/20/03
Thanks, Anthony, for all the good advice.  
<and Jason C too>
I feel prepared to march ahead into the valley of (ich) death!  Your answers just raise one remaining question: In the answer to question # 7, I didn't understand the comment about keeping a sponge around in the main tank to move into the quarantine tank at the onset of quarantine.  I'm lost here.  Can you clarify?  
<"the sponge" is your main and only filtration necessary. It's a common air operated (or power-head operated) sponge filter like Tetra Brilliant sponge or Jungle brand "Dirt Magnet". These filters are extremely effective but a big ugly for small display tanks. You can hide a small one in your display or a large one in your sump at all times. Thus it will be fully cycled with bacteria and ready to go on command if/when the need for QT arises and spares you from having to leave the QT up and running empty (or worse... with a mean damsel that will terrorize new fishes)>
What does the sponge do, and why might I want to move it into the quarantine tank?  Is it to bring nitrifying bacteria into the quarantine tank?
<yes... it will be your whole and only filtration for Qt and it will be very well seeded for having worked on the full load in the main display in wait for the call to QT>
George
<best regards, Anthony>

Quarantine question
Hi,
I need some advice!
<Okay.>
I have a 20 gal QT tank set up with a Penguin 550 powerhead, a Whisper Powerfilter 3, a heater, blah, blah, etc.  I also have about an inch of crushed aragonite as a substrate...I know, I know, that was a mistake.   I set up the tank several days ahead of the fish delivery last week (which included: 3 - 1" Green Chromis, a  2" Firefish goby, and a  1" Tank raised Tomato clown).   The day of arrival, I put in 2 pieces of PolyFilter from my MT (an Emperor BioWheel).   Despite initial 10% daily water changes (using Main Tank water to replace), vacuuming the substrate, increasing aeration, replacing carbon in filter, and 25%+  water changes (for the last several days), the water chemistry is continuing to suffer (along with the fish).  Despite everything, levels have remained the same now for several days:  Ammonia - between 0-.25 (I put in some Ammonia Detox), Nitrites have been hovering at .25 and just below, Nitrates - 5.0,
>pH - 8.2, Temp: 77 this AM, and spg at 1.023.  Okay, here's the dilemma, or should I say consequence?  One of the Green Chromis developed what looked like some cloudy spots on its tail  2 days ago.  I did a 25% water change, vacuumed the gravel,  turned up the heater slightly to about 79 degrees and kept my eye on him.  There was no "flashing" and otherwise the fish seemed normal, ate well ( but refused to eat any medicated fish food...naturally).
Next morning, the Chromis looked a little worse, tail looked more "cottony", a couple of cloudy patches on body, and possible cottony stuff at mouth. After eating a little, it pretty much went into a decline and was hiding behind the powerhead.  I netted him out and put him in a bucket, mainly to get him out of the tank ASAP.  I ended up putting him out of his misery, poor thing.  In the mean time, I did another 30% water change and kept an eye on the remaining fish.  Late yesterday afternoon, I noticed one of the
other Chromis had small light patches on his body (none on fins/tail).  I immediately went out and bought some Furacyn (by Aquatronics) which isn't the combination Furan based medication that I've seen recommended here, but is Nitrofurazone only (that's all I could find at either of my 2 LFS).  I removed the carbon, medicated the tank (the stuff turns your tank Yellow by the way!), and gave the fish a very small amt of food.   This morning the
cloudy patches are gone, and all fish are eating voraciously.  I'm wondering what to do about water changes.  I checked the chemicals this AM and results are the same (as best I can tell with yellow water!).  Considering these levels, do I need to do a larger 50% water change, and re-medicate or what?
<That's what I would do, as you are essentially dealing with an uncycled tank. Since you are in Everett, to save some $$$ on your water changes, you might want to think about trekking down to the Seattle Aquarium with some largish containers and purchase a bunch of water. They sell filtered UV treated Seawater for .05 a gallon, a big savings for those nearby (I know, Everett is a bit north, but I'm in Shelton, a bit further!) Then stay on top of the water quality and re-medicate as it appears to be the trick.>
I'm afraid that if I do nothing in order to keep the med's at the right concentration,  the water conditions will worsen as a result of no carbon, possible damage to any budding biological system, etc.  What would you recommend?  Okay, other than next time, don't overload the quarantine tank!!
<Let's not beat ourselves up! Hindsight is 20/20! Next time you will run this sponge a good while on your main system to provide the biocapacity. You really don't have much of a biosystem, so I would treat it like a total loss system and keep changing water and re-medicating based on water volume. The carbon won't be a huge help but stay on top of the mechanical filtration and cleaning, perhaps scooping out the crushed coral to go bare bottom as well.>
By the way, as an afterthought, will my tank raised Tomato clown ever get to the same dark orange as the non tank raised?  Mine is definitely a "washed out" orange color.  I had read that they tend to be lighter, but will that improve over time?
<Possibly with better conditions/food/time.>
Thank you so much for your time and input, you guys are great!
Lynn
<Our pleasure Lynn!  Craig>

Problem With QT Tank?
Hi,
<Hi! Scott F here again!>
Thanks for your quick reply!  I did check the water parameters in the QT, and the ammonia was on the rise already.
<Kinda suspected that, huh?>
I did a partial water change tonight (afraid I'm going to stress them all too much!) and the Nitrite is at 0. I have had the QT running for a few weeks with an extra piece of Live Rock. My damsel is not looking well - he (she?) is now lying on his side and breathing
rather shallow.  Don't think there is much hope for him now - but I'm going to leave him alone and see what the morning brings.  The clowns still seem OK and the wrasse has actually been swimming around a bit.  I'll definitely keep an eye on the water though.  I have about 5 gallons ready to go.  Anyway, thanks for your help and I'll just let them be for a while.
<Ya know- this may be one of the cases where you may want to actually purchase a "bacteria culture" product, like Cycle or Fritz Zyme, as a sort of "biohazard intervention kit"...>
On to another thing you mentioned... The skimmer.  I've been having some trouble adjusting it.  I have been getting some waste in the collection cup, but it doesn't seem like enough according to what everyone says.  Only a small amount each day (1/8 - 1/4 cup ..maybe)... and it has been spitting some air bubbles into the tank.  I currently have some snails (which the wrasse may eat, but that's ok - can always get more)... I have followed the manufacturer instructions for setting it up, but it's that fine tuning that's got me.
<Yep- the fine tuning is the tough part...just keep making small adjustments, and observe the skimmer for a few hours between them. It is tedious, but once the skimmer is "dialed in", you'll be set- and the results will be worth it...Stay with it!>
Anyway, thanks for all your help and patience!  I only wish I had a reputable SW person to buy fish from instead of "mail order" sight unseen!
<Well, I'd rather order sight unseen from a reliable mail order place than choose from poor quality specimens locally...Hopefully, the local stores will improve, but in the meantime, there are a number of great mail order places to get fishes from...hang in there! regards, Scott F>

QT prep and ending tank cycle
Thanks Don.
I'm kind of hoping that before the weekend, my NO2 will drop completely to 0. I think it's likely, as it's been dropping steadily and nicely. Honestly, at this point, there's one step between 0 and .025, and I'm not sure I could tell the difference between that step and .025.  It's so slight!   Even .050 and .025 are hard to tell the difference between.  As for the little white things being food, you may have a point, and I guess it doesn't look that bad after all, especially now that I cut the circ back a bit.  I don't think I'll sweat it for now, and see what happens.
<Yes the color change charts can be very difficult to read.>
One more question if I may, then I'll leave you alone (I'll bet you've heard that before  ;-).  
<No problem>
I have had my small, hang-on filter w/ sponge hanging on the sump, and running since Sunday (.025 NO2 day), and plan on taking it off and hanging it on the QT tank on Friday (provided everything looks good).  On Friday, I'll also put in the QT tank, 15 gallons of fresh seawater mix, and 5 gallons from my main tank, and let come up to temp.  I was advised against doing a full 50/50 with 10 G from my main tank for now (because it may be harmful to the main tank so early on.  I also have a puny little "mixing" pump (40G hour, maybe less, can't quite remember) that came with the salt mix for free, that seems about perfect for a little added circ. in the QT tank (and to think I thought it was useless when I saw it for the first time!) This is basically what has been recommended to me.  
<All sounds good/appropriate>
Question------>The question is, do you still think I'll need to do large daily water changes on the QT tank?
<Depends on many factors. I would plan on 10-20% daily/every other day. Monitor levels closely and react accordingly. I always like to have a bunch of water mixed up (40G) just in case. Makes changes a lot easier if you have cured water around. You are on a good course, continue and be patient and all will go well. Don>
Thanks again!
Eric N.

QT filter
Hi, you say to keep my Fluval 404 running on the tank at all times even if not being used on my QT. 
<yes... you need to have a fully cycled bio-filter running on your main display in wait for any new purchase. When the QT is needed is can be brought out from storage, filled with aged water and the seeded Fluval jumped over to it>
Do I need to clean the Fluval after using on the QT or just take it from the QT and put it directly back on the main display? 
<if the Qt animal is healthy enough to send to the main display... so is the Fluval. $ week QT for all... no exceptions please. Rinse the media on a normal schedule but not right before a new Qt animal us brought home>
Wouldn't this transfer undesirable critters or diseases from the QT to the main display if something undesirable should come in on some corals or fish? 
<Simply send the filter to the main tank to continue the bio-activity when the QT'ed animal goes over.>
As always thanks for the great feedback and your concern, Jeff
<best regards, Anthony>

Quarantine Tank, Bioballs
Dear WWM crew,
I am a little confused on the reference to sponge filter for seeding a quarantine tank. Do you mean a power filter unit that utilizes a sponge for a filter or simply a sponge type filter that would come from the display and dropped directly into the quarantine tank.
<We are generally referring to the simple sponge filters run by an air pump, but either would work.>
Question number 2: My 180 gallon tanks has two corner internal overflows which I have packed with bio-balls to kill the waterfall noise. I know I have a nitrate factory going on here. Do you have suggestions for killing the noise without the use of bioballs?
<Search for plans for the Durso overflow modification. This should be very easy to find on Yahoo or a similar search engine.>
I have thought about large hair curlers and the possible use of high density polystyrene.
<Any media will give you the same nitrate problems.>
Question number 3:  Can I move my powerheads (2 MaxiJet 1200's) from the main tank to the sump and have the same results.
<No, not really.>
Fish only (Huma Trigger, Regal Tang, Map Angel, Green Bird Wrasse, Marble Wrasse and Raccoon Butterfly) with 150 to 200 lbs. live rock tank. I have two Mag 12's returning water from the sump to the display. Sump capacity is approximately 60 gallons.
<Best regards. -Steven Pro>

Quarantine tank questions
Thank you for reading my message.   As I am new to this hobby, any suggestions would be appreciated.    My questions are in regards to a quarantine tank.
I understand that most quarantine tanks are simple and barebones.   If so, how do you keep a healthy enough biological filtration for your fish if it is absent of substrate, live rock, and other surfaces that aids in biological   filtration?
  <Use of pre-established biological filter media, like sponges, fibrous pads in "clean" (disease-free) systems>
Do you most people shut down their quarantine tank when not in use?   Or do you run it year round?
<Some keep them running continuously... for use as isolation or treatment systems... others just keep the components at the ready>
  If it is shut down, how do you get the biological filtration ready (cycled) when the time comes when you do need it?   I guess you could piggy back some stuff from the main tank but I am afraid of contamination.
Sincerely, Jimmy
<By using such media in the main/display tanks. Please read our sections (articles and FAQs files on Quarantine) starting here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quaranti.htm
following on by way of the linked files at top.
Bob Fenner>

Seeding The Sponge For A Quarantine Tank
I thought you'd all would like to know that I've been what feels like all throughout the web and your site far exceeds any other with respect to content, professionalism, size, straight clear cut answers and above all you don't belittle people who's knowledge is less than yours. That's why we all come to sites like yours in the first place, the learn more and/or to keep on learning.
<Really glad to hear that! We're all really just learning more each and every day! That's part of the fun, IMO! Scott F. with you today!>
    Now to my question, I'm setting up a Q-tank and will be putting the foam block from it in my display tanks filter to seed it.
<Very good idea!>
I was thinking if for example a display tank has obtained a disease, virus or the like won't it contaminate my foam block?  Thus contaminating my Q-tank when transferred, just thinking out loud.
<Good question/thought. Which, of course, begs another question...Why would anyone think of adding new fishes to a tank in which disease is present? (You knew I'd have to ask that, huh?). Seriously, though, if you're using the foam to seed say, a hospital tank, in which fishes from the affected tank are to be placed, then you're not really exposing them to anything new. And, they are in all likelihood going to be treated with medication anyways in the hospital tank, so it's probably not a big problem. On the other hand, if you really are using the tank for quarantine of new fishes, and, for whatever reason, are fighting illness in the display tank, you have two options, IMO: 1) Ask a friend who has a healthy system if you could keep the foam in his or her tank...or...2) Use freshly mixed water in the QT and seed it with some cured live rock pieces (which you will later remove, of course) from a healthy tank...or...3) Set up the QT as indicated above, skip the LR, and use one of the proprietary "bacteria starter" products, like "Cycle", etc. to help "seed" the foam. I'm thrilled that you're thinking about quarantine, and even more thrilled that you're thinking of the "what ifs" in the process! Hope that these ideas spur more great thoughts! Take care! Regards, Scott F>

Biological Filtration/Q-Tank
Hi (Dr Fenner ?)
<Just Bob, please>
Congratulations on a marvelous website ! I have been a silent visitor to your site for months, mostly because I have always found answers to my questions in your FAQ sections. Now finally I have something to ask of which I am not very sure yet, if you don't mind.
<Not at all... as a matter of note this is exactly how we hope to add content, get input on what topics we might write about...>
After having to destroy my decor and battle for hours trying to catch sick fish with whitespot I decided that I will not add one more fish to my system without putting it into quarantine first,
<Hallelujah>
so I'm busy setting up a quarantine tank, its about 25 gallons in size. I don't want to run this tank continuously and would like to only run it when I actually have to quarantine a new fish. So I would keep the tank empty and when its time to buy a new fish I would fill it up with new water of do a water change from the main tank into this quarantine tank. My question to you is about the biological filtration and the best way to make sure that I don't get ammonia spikes in the QT -
I have 2 options:
1. Keep the foam sponge from an Aquaclear hang on filter in the sump of my main tank permanently and then install it into the QT on the day when I add the new fish to the QT, hopefully introducing all the bacteria that the new system needs.
2. I have a Merlin Fluidized filter (from Red Sea) here which I am not using - I can run this permanently on the main tank and then transfer it to the QT whenever I need to quarantine something.
Which one of these do you think would be best, if any ? Do you normally keep your QT's permanently running ?
<Both are excellent... in fact I would employ both... simultaneously for redundant back-up... and utilize your main/display tanks water for the quarantine/treatment system for water>
Your comments on this would be greatly appreciated.
Kind Regards, Derek
<Thank you, Bob Fenner>

Re: Biological Filtration/Q-Tank
Hi Doc (grin)
<Derek>
Thanks for the speedy reply. One thing I forgot to ask was how long it takes for something like a sponge or a Merlin to be properly "infected" with the bacteria ? Am I correct in assuming that you need about a week ?
<Several days to a few weeks>
There are so many test kits available, but to date I haven't found one that measures how many Nitrosomonas or Nitrobacters bacteria you have in a sponge, if you know what I mean...I don't even know if there is 1 in there :)
<Interesting possibility... as far as I'm aware there is no such assay. Perhaps you will devise one. Bob Fenner>
Thanks for the advice, Derek

Turbo cycling?
OK, I've been reading up on quarantine tanks, and have convinced my wife of the need.
<Good>
Current plan is to get a 12 gallon Eclipse system and some PVC pipe - nothing else in the tank. This could change based on your answers to the following. I read in the FAQ about keeping the bio filter in your main tank, then just setting up the QT as needed.
<Yes>
Sounds great, and will work in the future. But for now, I am going to need a QT on a constant basis for stocking my tank - if I am adding 1 fish a month, and quarantining for 4 weeks, then the QT will be very busy for the next 6-8 months.
<Ok>
So, I'm trying to figure out how to cycle the QT to get it started. I don't want to sacrifice damsels (the 2 we have now have been through enough, and I don't want to buy any more and put them through hell). I like the idea of using some bio-filtering from my main tank, but I'm not sure how to do that with my setup. In the main tank, there are 3 types of bio filtering being used - live sand/rock, some bio-thingies (not really balls) in my Fluval filter, and there is a bio-bale in my CPR Bak Pak skimmer. Don't want to mess with the skimmer, and the live rock/sand is a no-no in the quarantine tank. So, that leaves the bio-thingies in the canister. Now, as luck would have it, I wanted to remove SOME of that media eventually, to open up a chamber for adding some carbon. The Eclipse filter system has a mechanical sponge-type filter, I believe some chambers for chemicals, and a bio-wheel. So, would I just remove the BioWheel and add my bio-thingies from the Fluval?
<No, would not really fit in the same place.>
Or should I use a different type of filter system altogether, say one that might accommodate the bio-thingies better (not spending another $100 on a canister filter, though).
<A old-style cheap box filter would work for holding the ceramic rings. These are the ones that used to come with all starter freshwater tanks, clear plastic box that you stuffed with white floss and carbon and bubbled with an air pump. You could fill it up with the Fluval rings easy enough.>
And once I get some bio filtering setup, how do I test the system to make sure it is cycled?
<Once the fish is in there, monitor ammonia and nitrite closely.>
I would sure hate to get an ammonia spike after I get a new critter in there.
<Agreed, but not much else you can do but set it up as best you can, add a small fish, and hope that the ceramic rings have enough beneficial bacteria on them to support that particular bioload.>
Again, thanks again for your help. I am learning that I can't rely on my LFS for anything - they tried to talk me out of buying a QT.
<What? Beyond the poor philosophy, how many LFS salespeople try to talk anyone out of buying anything?>
I also found out that they won't take a deposit and hold a fish for you.
<Poor business to not hold a fish for a few days at least. Maybe not an entire quarantine period, but a few days is standard for many.>
I think I will have to look elsewhere when it's time to purchase livestock.
<Yes perhaps that would be best. -Steven Pro>

Quarantine Tank
Well once again I come with a question but more for direction than anything. I've done the google search on QT tanks and can't find the best way to set one up.
<Do see here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quaranti.htm and the linked FAQ files.>
Could you point me in the right direction. I know it is here. I'm running an Eheim 2217 with filter sponges in it and don't really want to spend that much on a filter for a QT tank but could I buy something like a Millennium and run it on the main for awhile to get the bacteria built up?
<I prefer sponge filters, but the Marineland Penguin hang-on powerfilters work, too.>
Thanks again guys you are all great. Colleen in Pittsburgh
<FYI, the next PMASI meeting is on Saturday, September 21st in the Neptune meeting room of the Palace Inn. Adam Cesnales is presenting a plumbing workshop beginning at 6:00 PM. -Steven Pro>

Biological Filter in Quarantine Tank
Hello Bob!
Hope your Saturday has been pleasant. I have just one quick question.
Because I am concerned with the water quality in my main tank (may have
parasites still in some stage), I don't want to use it to jumpstart
my biological filter in the quarantine tank. I am introducing a 7-member
school of 2.5" Lyretail Anthias, and a 5" Sailfin (Desjardinii) tang. Would
it be safe to simply run something like Amquel in the QT (along with a
mechanical and chemical filtration / Chemipure) while I am getting the biological filter up and running?
<Not for me>
I could also use some of those pre-packaged BioZyme type products to introduce some bacteria.
<Yes... do check into hobbyists opinions... Cycle (Hagen) or fresh Fritzyme (Fritz Chemical) are better regarded... I think>
The LFS has said that I don't need to take everything at once, though they don't really want to hold everything for "too" long, either. As always, your insights are greatly appreciated! Thanks again. Jim Raub
<Bob Fenner>

Setting Up a Hospital Tank
Hello. I have set up a hospital tank with a simple filtration system, like you'd see in a fresh water system, with floss filter bags, sponge and charcoal. In fact it is an old fresh water system that I converted to a hospital tank. The ammonia reading is really high and the nitrate is climbing. It has been up since mid January 2002. I started with 10 gallons of water from my main tank and then 10 gallons of aged salt water. How can I get the ammonia and nitrate to go down? Should I start over using 20 gallons of water from the main tank when I change water in about two weeks? Suggestions welcome. Richard
<Changing all the water out for old might do it... Do read through this establishing cycling piece: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/estbiofiltmar.htm (does apply to freshwater as well), and the quarantine system article and FAQs files on WetWebMedia.com under the Marine Index. Bob Fenner>

QT Tank Protocol
I have been reading enough here to admit that a QT Tank is the only way to go when introducing new fish. However with limited space to put such a tank how would you suggest providing one? What should it consist of, size, filter circulation, rock, heat, sand etc.? 
<bare bottomed tank, glass cover (or like substitute), heater, sponge filter (run in your main tank at all times to prevent the need to keep QT running and to have ready bio-filter...see below), and some easy to sterilize ornaments for hiding (like PVC fittings). Absolutely no more than this is needed. Indirect room light is usually fine (add a small light if you like) and substrate should NEVER be used (absorbs meds)>
Is it something that can be setup only when needed by using material from main tank, so as to not worry about cycle time? 
<exactly>
I would think that if this tank is not fully cycled and running all the time that fish introduced would cause spikes in ammonia etc. that would be more harmful than good. 
<correct>
My problem is that I don't have a place that I can set up a permanent tank. Any suggestions???
<no problem at all my friend, the following was written for another aquarist with a similar query today. For our convenience I have cut and pasted it..., " A QT tank rarely needs to be up and running... dry and ready is good enough. A simple $5 sponge filter can be running in the back of the display tank (or a sump on marine aquaria) at all times... thus biologically conditioned and easily able to handle the load of a new fish or sick fish transferred out. When the occasion arises in need of QT, the "dirty"/established sponge filter is moved to the QT tank with 50% aged water from the display. The QT and the display are then topped off with new water. Bottom line... QT is necessary... saves money and lives when you think about the great investment in a full display tank to be risked with every new fish randomly thrown in." Do explore the archives as well if you like to see some variations on QT methodology, but rest assured that it is really as direct as it seems. Best regards, Anthony>
Thanks as always, Dennis Vigliotte

More Questions about Quarantine
Jason, Thank you for your reply. I think you are telling me to stay the course. Water changes and Amquel. What about one of these 48 hr cycle kits (Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter boosters) or would copper just kill?
D Stanley
<<stay the course, indeed. Those booster formulas are mostly junk - I would avoid them. The best thing I've found of late is the stuff "cell pore" which is available in little rock-sized chunks. Anyway, you can leave a chunk in a well-cycled tank for a week or two and then throw that into the quarantine tank after the medication to bring about a quick cycle. Good luck, J -- >>

Quarantine Filter
Hi Bob,
<Steven Pro this evening.>
I have a question, right now I have a penguin bio wheel filter that has been on my main tank for 6 weeks in order to seed the wheel for a quarantine or hospital tank. It is not my main source of filtration so I was wondering if I could remove the entire bio wheel filter to reduce the clutter in the tank. But, the problem is that I still need some biological filtration on deck in case I want to add new fish or hospitalize a fish. My idea is to float the bio wheel by itself in the main aquarium, if this will work.
<Would not work well and would be more "clutter", IMO.>
Or I could place the wheel in the bio media column of my CPR bakpak2.
<A better solution. My only concern is some of these BioWheels used to come with a stainless steel spindle. I think they have switch to ceramic now. If yours has a ceramic shaft, I would go ahead and submerge it in the Bak-Pak. It will work, but probably not quite as effectively as in the Penguin filter. -Steven Pro>

Quarantine Tank
I have a question about setting up a Q-tank. What should I use to cycle
a Q-tank. I am new to salt water (but have been reading, reading,
reading, & researching for 5 months now) and do not have my main tank
set-up yet. All the info I have gathered suggest you quarantine all new
livestock. So my plan is to start my Q-tank first since it will take 6
weeks to cycle, and 4 weeks to cycle the first livestock. Would you
recommend cycling the Q-tank with LR, and after the cycle, put the LR in the main tank and buy more to cycle it.
<Sounds like a good plan.>
Or should I cycle both tanks at the same time?
<You could do this also, but do not leave any liverock in the QT.>
The Q-tank is a 30 gallon and the main tank is a 120. If I cycled the Q-tank with LR, how much should I get to cycle it with?
<10-20 pounds should be enough.>
I plan on getting an AquaClear 300 or 500 filter to run on the Q-tank.
<I would prefer a sponge filter.>
What type of skimmer would you recommend me running on a 30 Q-tank
gallon tank?
<Not really needed. You should/will be doing many water changes and only having livestock in there occasionally.>
I also plan on getting a UV for the Q-tank. I have also read that you like the Kati Ani type of deionizers. I have searched the web and seem to only find the Deion 200 from AquaDirect for $200. Is there another brand/model you recommend, and where would I find it?
<I know you can find the Kati-Ani's at Drs. Foster and Smith, an e-tailer.>
Thank You for the support and hours of work you put into the site. Six
months ago, I thought it was impossible to have a marine aquarium. Now,
I am close to having one. Jesse
<Glad to hear it. -Steven Pro>

Quarantine Tank
Bob,
<Steven Pro in this morning.>
I have recently set up a QT (thanks to you) but since I know better than you I decided to include crushed coral so that I could develop a bacteria bed, etc., and not have to worry about constant water changes.
<I am guessing by your sarcasm that you are having second thoughts. The crushed coral in a quarantine tank is a truly horrible idea; makes cleaning/siphoning difficult, absorbs medications rendering them ineffective against the pathogen in question, etc. Biological filtration can be effectively accomplished via sponge filters or BioWheels.>
Well, I'm at the point where I do a water change every other day and after 3 weeks the tank does not seem to be cycling. I keep getting ammonia readings but not nitrite. In addition, the pH keeps going below 8.0 even though I'm using buffer. What am I doing wrong? Should I bite the bullet and cycle with damsels so I don't put the beautiful angels at risk?
<I am confused. What are you cycling the tank with now? Liverock? And why are performing the daily water changes?>
Thanks as always. Joe
<Steven Pro awaiting your reply.>

Re: QT
Steve
<Anthony Calfo with the follow up>
I lost the bottom of your response but I'll continue on the topic. I have a whisper filter which contains a sponge. Will that be enough to harbor the bacteria without the crushed coral? 
<not at all...too modest/small>
I want to avoid using a sponge filter due to the noise since the QT tank is in my daughters bedroom. 
<hmmm... the tetra brilliant sponge series with most any better air pump mounted on brass chain (the key! to quiet air pumps... swinging from chains under the stand) is really quite silent and a much better filter. Else, an AquaClear power filter with two coarse foam blocks is a close surrogate>
How often do I need to do water changes in the Qt under these conditions? 
<depends on the nature of the holding... just acclimating a new import or diseased fish. Also, follow your water chemistry. At least weekly small water changes and as much as daily during treatment for parasites>
The water that I am using for the water changes has been Ph balanced with buffer so why does the PH keep dropping?
<was the water purified before hand (R/O or DI) and not aerated (very soft and high in carbonic acid). Else, test the hardness of your tap water suspecting it is med to soft and simply needs more buffer>
Thanks again. Joe
<best regards, Anthony>

Biological Cycling
I have a 10 gallon QT setup and have been trying with no luck to maintain a biological filter (pre-seeded sponge etc). In lack of thereof, I have been doing a 10% water change (premixed and PH adjusted) every other day in order to limit the nitrites and ammonia. Is this an acceptable approach? Thanks as always, Joe
<Please have a read through here re establishing (or keeping going) biological cycling: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/estbiofiltmar.htm and the associated FAQs, and the FAQs on Quarantine: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quaranti.htm Bob Fenner>

Quarantine Tank -poor choice of substrate
Bob,
<Steven Pro in this morning.>
I have recently set up a QT (thanks to you) but since I know better than you I decided to include crushed coral so that I could develop a bacteria bed, etc., and not have to worry about constant water changes.
<I am guessing by your sarcasm that you are having second thoughts. The crushed coral in a quarantine tank is a truly horrible idea; makes cleaning/siphoning difficult, absorbs medications rendering them ineffective against the pathogen in question, etc. Biological filtration can be effectively accomplished via sponge filters or BioWheels.>
Well, I'm at the point where I do a water change every other day and after 3 weeks the tank does not seem to be cycling. I keep getting ammonia readings but not nitrite. In addition, the pH keeps going below 8.0 even though I'm using buffer. What am I doing wrong? Should I bite the bullet and cycle with damsels so I don't put the beautiful angels at risk?
<I am confused. What are you cycling the tank with now? Liverock? And why are performing the daily water changes?>
Thanks as always. Joe
<Steven Pro awaiting your reply.>

Quarantine Tanks
Bob -
I have just finished reading the quarantine process article on the FFE web page and I have a couple of questions that maybe you can help with. First, the biological filter: how do you recommend maintaining the bio-load of the filter when a new fish is not in "quarantine"? Normally, a hardy fish or two can handle this, but doesn't that defeat the purpose of having the "new" fish alone? Or do you recommend filing the tank and running it only when buying a new fish? Second, would a simple exterior hanging bio-filter be suitable for the quarantine tank and is a protein skimmer needed? Third, and lastly, what type of lighting do you recommend for the quarantine tank? The article says that you may not need lighting, but...Thanks for your advice! Chris
<Very good questions...
1) I'd keep the bioload up by offering a bit of dry-prepared food occasionally if I was pretty sure I might want to use the quarantine system in the near term (I do not encourage using inorganic sources of ammonia, or organic products made for "goosing" nitrification... they're too dangerous, unreliable). Otherwise I'd "float" the biomedia (I mainly use sponge types) in a clean system so they're pre-made, "ready to go" if needed.
1B) Yes, I generally fill, refill the quarantine system with used system water and the move pre-popped filter media anew when either bringing in new livestock, or isolating existing for whatever reason.
2) A hand on filter works fine for quarantine tanks, and unless the organisms are going to be in there a long time (weeks) I generally skip on using a protein skimmer... especially if medicating (fractionators readily remove most coppers). But I do monitor water quality twice daily (or more), effect water changes, and replace media if the system appears to be "crashing" in terms of biological filtration/support.
3) Re lighting a quarantine system: Unless the organisms are obligate photosynthates AND are going to be in the system more than a week, I wouldn't use any lighting. In addition, I remind you to provide chemically inert cover (I use PVC parts, pipe) for your mobile livestock to get out of view and even the dim non-added light.
Bob Fenner, who thanks you for writing and encourages you to read his quarantine pieces at the wetwebmedia.com site.>

Quarantine tank
After my first year as a "fishkeeper" and replacing a number of tropical saltwater fish in a 55 gal tank w/bio-wheel and skimmer, I have decided to set up a 10 gal. quarantine tank. The stores that provide me fish, etc., have conflicting ways to operated this tank. I would like to keep, at least, a couple of small fish in the tank at times that a sick or new fish is not being treated, one says ok the other says keep dry till needed and use half existing tank water and half fresh mixed water. Help, Carlton White
<Good news all the way around... Great to hear of your quarantine plans... and I do have my own Standard Operating Procedures for same... posted for all's use at the URL: www.wetwebmedia.com 
To answer the one point: I wouldn't leave the quarantine/treatment/acclimation empty at all... but at least do consider doing the following: during water changes take the water out of the quarantine tank, and siphon your system water into the quarantine tank... replacing microbes and organics... in one throw. 
Bob Fenner, who's glad to be here>

Quarantine Tank
Hi Bob,
What is the fastest way to cycle a quarantine tank? Secondly, once cycled, how do you keep the tank from re-cycling if it goes for a bit of time with no  fish in the tank? Thank You. Patty
<Move cycled water and some substrate, filter media from your main/display tank... answer to both! Bob Fenner>

Filtration for quarantine
Hello,
I am in the process of finally setting up a 20 gal. quarantine tank after 
much demise in my 120 gal. FLWR tank. My question is what would be the best  filtration to set up on this tank for permanent operation with a few damsels  occupying it. Or what other fish would be advisable to occupy the quarantine  tank to keep the bacteria going in this tank? I was considering a Skilter,  what are your thoughts on this product? Thanks for your help in advance.
<The Skilter (modified with an airstone down the contact chamber for added function) would be great, plus I'd add an airstone to the tank... as well. For "keeping the biological filtration going" there is no need to stock the system with damsels... instead, just some of your main system water siphoned over to the tank during routine maintenance will keep it "primed".
Bob Fenner, who is very glad you're "raising the bar" on your aquarium experience, rather than...>

Quarantine
Hi Bob,
Finally the nitrite level is back to normal (Tetra test) and made a 20% water change last night. I have also prepare a 18g quarantine tank using back the change water from the main tank. Running on a power pump sponge filter without gravel.
My question is can a 18g tank quarantine a large clown trigger (10 inch) for two weeks? Can the water deteriorate? Is it better to treat the water first?
<Probably, yes, and yes... I'd be monitoring water quality daily... and changing parts as necessary.>
Appreciate your reply soon. David.
<Bob Fenner>

Cycling Quarantine Tank
Is it necessary to cycle my 10gallon quarantine tank? I inquired of my local marine aquarium shop (which has extensive marine aquaria and supplies and has been trustworthy thus far) and they suggested I just fill my Q tank with 1/2 fresh saltwater and 1/2 water from my cycled display tank (and then do partial water changes every other day in the Q tank to prevent ammonia/nitrite accumulation. What do you think?
<The advice is very sound. Using water from your existing system will pre-empt having to cycle the quarantine tank on its own. And using replacement water from the larger, going system will keep the quarantine tank more stable and optimized in terms of water quality than you could do otherwise. Do monitor the ammonia and nitrite at least once daily, and be ready with water changes if either approach more than a few tenths of a part per million in concentration... in addition to running some mechanical filtration and otherwise providing adequate circulation and aeration.
Bob Fenner>

Saltwater hospital tank/transfer tank
Bob,
Sorry to bug you again. I have one last question for you. What do you need to do to set up a saltwater hospital tank or holding tank. Do you need to cycle it like a show tank? Is there a part of this web site that tells you about this type of thing?
<Yes... these issues and related items are covered on our site: www.WetWebMedia.com under "Quarantine" and related FAQs files. Bob Fenner>
Thanks again, Pat

Quarantine Tank
Bob,
I have read your information about the quarantine of fish and I agree totally. I believe even if you have a fish only tank, live rock, etc. is important to have so the fish can constantly pick at. Live rock and parasitic treatments don't mix. Nor does a lot of things. It just seems the whole system goes south when treatments (all even the so called safe ones) are introduced.
<You are correct>
I have a 20 gallon quarantine tank. I have purchased 3 butterfly fish from internet supplier. I use an Emperor 400 bio wheel filter system (I keep the wheels and the cartridge in my sump with a bunch of bio balls that I stuff in the back pocket of filter. I also put a couple pieces of live rock from my main tank (completely cycled) into QT. I divide the tank to separate the fish. I took water from main tank and started filter and introduced fish. My concern is I got a small .2 ammonia spike. I have no nitrite. I put in a couple of capfuls of Kent Detox and got the Ammonia down to 0. Granted I have way to much fish for 20 Gallon tank, but they are doing great. Will I keep getting Ammonia spikes?,
<Hopefully not... the Butterflies presence has likely elevated the populations and metabolisms of beneficial microbes...>
should I be concerned with this level .2? or will the bacteria and filter/live rock knock it down? 
<Not too concerned, and yes, should>
I know eliminating Ammonia with chemical probably not best, is this a real problem. Is water changing every other day? necessary?
<I wouldn't be doing this unless the ammonia exceeded 0.5 ppm with these fishes>
I think freshwater dips would be beneficial in long run, but hate to disturb extremely healthy, vigorously eating fish. What do you recommend?
<Doing what you're doing. I wouldn't do the freshwater dips either>
If dip, what brand name and mix strength can I find the Methylene blue?
<Just very blue... very safe material>
I also have not altered Specific Gravity or temperature. To some up, I know I have to much fish in small tank, and am concerned for their health for two weeks. Should I set up another QT?
<If another tank can be put to use, yes... otherwise you should be fine (I assume the Butterflyfishes are small specimens, you're keeping the tank in an area of low traffic... A couple of weeks going by, a pH adjusted freshwater dip enroute to the main system... is what I'd do. Bob Fenner>
D Stanley