Refugium on a Tenecor 6/24/04
Good morning Bob, First of all, thank you for a wonderful website.  I have learned most I know from your site and books.
<Adam here today.  I will pass your kind words on to Bob.>
I have a few quick questions about my tank.  I have a Tenecor 75 gallon with the simplicity plus filtration (wet / dry built into the back).  I was wondering about how to turn the section in the back into a refugium and removing all the bio balls and such.  Do you think this would be a good idea or should I try to modify a hang on refugium to fit behind my system?  If I do this, what would be the best layout for this (live rock rubble, etc)?
Thank you, Rob, Arlington, WA
<Rob, these are difficult questions to answer without knowing more about your system.  Except for heavily stocked predator systems, I am very strongly in favor or refugia and not in favor of wet/dries, so I strongly support your general plan.  I would suggest removing the bio-balls from the wet/dry over a couple of weeks.  As far as adding the refugium, you will have to consider aesthetics, convenience, space and cost.  Don't be afraid to be creative!  If you have an idea, and aren't sure, run it by us.  When it comes to setting up the refugium itself, you must consider what your primary goal is.  If you want nutrient export, consider a DSB and macroalgae.  If you want pod habitat, consider crushed coral substrate and live rock rubble.  A hybrid can accomplish both, but like any other system component, refugia must be carefully managed to prevent the accumulation of wastes.  Best Regards.  Adam>

Any Refugium Is Better Than No Refugium!
Hey Guys,
<Hi there! Scott F. here today!>
Just a quick question.
I have a 100 gal tank with live rock(70lbs) and a deep live sand bed. I have been running it with a CPR Bak Pak 2 and two 802 power heads with pre filters that I use for mechanical filtration. I was running two Fluvals but one broke, and low and behold, my water got better, so I slowly removed the other one. Now I have zeros across the board on my water tests.
<Go figure. That's pretty cool, though! Good pickup...Go with it>
My question is, I want a refugium. Will the CPR hang on the back do the trick? I only run a few small gobies and mainly leathers, Acroporas and clams.
<An interesting and challenging mix!>
Trust only your advice.
Erik Lobe
<Well, Erik, I suppose that any refugium is better than none, but the refugium that you refer to is rather small, so it may not provide huge amounts of nutrient processing and food production. However, I certainly wouldn't discourage you from utilizing it! You'll derive some good benefits from the unit nonetheless. Have fun! Regards, Scott F.>

Controversial Topics (Sandbed Depth And Caulerpa Use)
Hello,
<Hi! Scott F. here>
I have read through much of the site but still have some questions.  First I will tell you what I have--the contents of the tank have been together--Ecosystem aside--for about 1.5 years in a 100 gal tank:
My set up is this (for about 6 weeks--I took all the water/sand/rock from the 100gal tank):
60 gal tank
100 lbs. live rock
3-4 inch DSB (fine-medium grain size sand--although more medium than fine)
Ecosystem 40 refugium with miracle mud and healthy Chaetomorpha, red tang heaven, and Ulva and lots o pods/snails
AquaC Remora HOT
280 watt PC lighting (soon to add another 110 watts)
Pacific Tang, Maroon Clownfish in love with his Condylactis anemone, Firefish, Royal Gramma, Rock Blenny, Purple Lobster, two hermits and soon to be removed (although cute) Spotted Puffer as well as one sea anemone.  I would like to make my tank non-predator and ready to eventually contain some corals (ergo adieu to the sweet puffer).
<And the anemones, too!>
I inherited the contents of the tank from a friend and bought the skimmer, and refugium (although the Ecosystem 40 is for a 40 gal I figured it is better to have a small one than none at all at this point--and space is a constraint esp. with a somewhat reluctant spouse who 'doesn't care much for fish' I'm trying to keep it all as inconspicuous as possible).  Everyone seems very happy and all the fish responded very well to the addition of the refugium last week (swimming all around the water return...and the normally shy gamma came out and is now all over the tank). No water problems so far.
Questions:
1. I currently have the 3-4 inches of sand with the rock resting on top in the tank.  The sand is different levels due to the two water pumps I put in--they've blown it around a little (I actually think this looks better than flat sand all the way across).  
<Me, too!>
The manual to the Ecosystem refugium says that I shouldn't have a deep sand bed.  My LFS says that that I should have put the rocks on the bottom of the tank, and then filled the tank with sand (three inches) and eventually the sand would settle into the rock.  Should I remove some sand?  Should I try to put the rocks on the bare tank bottom and add sand like my LFS says?
<6 of one, half-dozen of another...I'd keep the sandbed 3-4 inches, and be done with it...>
Will the DSB in my tank disrupt the refugium system?
<I can't imagine what it would>
I would rather have less sand in my main tank but initially put it all in there since I thought a DSB would be fine (I got it all from my friend with a 100 gal)--also...is it a problem that my DSB sand is not all fine grain but more small-medium grain pieces ( read on your site that fine sand is best for DSB)?
<Well, fine grain is best, but it is certainly acceptable (IMO) to have some larger-grade pieces mixed in. Looks better, too! Do read some of the works of Dr. Ronald Shimek on sandbed composition. Lots of opinions on this topic.>
I have noticed that after a month the sand layer is whiter on top to the depth of 1.5 inches.  Should I simply have one-two inches of sand in the tank since that seems to be the amount of sand that is getting good circulation???
<A lot of the conventional wisdom on sand beds dictates a deeper layer. Two inches may be too deep to be fully aerobic, but too shallow to foster complete denitrification. Again, there are a lot of opinions on this, and new data is coming in all the time. However, I'd stick with the tried and true for now: A sandbed should be 3 inches or more, or 1/2" or less!>
If I need to take out sand and re-do the sand/rock would it behoove me to elevate the rock on a PVC/eggcrate setup for better circulation?
<Can't hurt- but it's not 100% necessary. I'd personally try to leave as much surface area open as possible. You could elevate the rock or stack it to accomplish this>
I really want to do what is best for the long-term/benefit of the organisms.
<Agreed! That should be your goal!>
2. Should I add Caulerpa to the refugium?  I have read pros and cons.  I want minimal hassle and am worried the 'sexual life of Caulerpa' will be too burdensome.  But do the benefits outweigh the bother, or will I be fine with what I have?  
<I like and use Chaetomorpha, myself. It grows, it's an excellent "substrate" for planktonic/amphipod growth, doesn't go "sexual", can be easily harvested, and it's fun to give away to your friends (Everyone wants this stuff at the Club "Frag Swap"! Let everyone else offer their "Blue Torts"- Everyone wants my "Chaeto!">
Thanks for your help--it is very overwhelming and time consuming trying to learn all of this and I appreciate all the time your crew dedicates towards helping people like myself (so hopefully in turn I can help others!).
Saskia
<MY pleasure, Saskia! That's what we're all about! Sharing this hobby that we all love so much! Good luck! Regards, Scott F>

In Tank Refugium Question
Bob,
I have a 140 gal. salt tank that is 4ft wide, 30inches tall and 2ft from front to back. I have 200lbs of live rock and a few fish. My idea was to have a refugium behind the live rock. I would make it out of plexi-glass, two trays , which would sit on top of one another, the dimensions of the trays would be 7inches deep by 36 inches across and 4 inches tall, the bottom tray being kept off the tank sand bed by 3inch tall eggcrate. The top tray would be the sand mud shell mixture with Caulerpa growing, the bottom tray would contain the water pump. Holes would be drilled on the plate separating the top and bottom trays, and on each far side of the bottom tray. The outflow water from the pump would be pumped back into the tank from the sides. I was thinking this set up would act as sort of a reverse undergravel filter, What is your opinion? I also have an overflow to the wet dry protein skimmer under the  tank. Will this work? Thank you, Michael Quereau
<Sounds like a good plan to me... not easy to get into, manipulate once installed though. I'm a bigger fan of remoted, sump type refugiums. Bob Fenner>

UV and a refugium
Hello WWM. I love your site! my question is simple (or at least short) I bought a UV sterilizer and I'm using a refugium. Should I use the UV or not. My tank is cycling. My refugium is full of life tons of Caulerpa and millions of copepods. The UV defeats the refugium right? Thanks for all the info ..Bill
<Actually, the UV and refugium are not mutually exclusive and ultraviolet use should have no discernible negative impact on the refugium. Bob Fenner>

Refugium Question
Hello, <Hi Scott, MacL here.>
I have a 75 gallon tank and am buying an on the back refugium, so I could try to keep a mandarinfish. <Mandarinfish require a very large amount of copepods to keep them alive. Theoretically, you could keep the pods multiplying in the refugium and feeding the tank, but should this stop happening you will need to have an idea of where you can buy new pods to start a new colony.  With all the trouble, I think you'll find there are plenty of other wonderful fish that are much easier to keep.> What should I grow though in the tank. <So much to choose from Scott.  Lovely live rocks, some of the more light tolerant corals. Caulerpas or other types of sea grasses.> Such as what sand, plants, etc. <Its really all a matter of choice.  Most people use Caulerpas or sea grasses in the refugium as a place to encourage the pods to grow so they can keep some of the more difficult fish.>
Thanks a lot. <You are welcome> Scott. <Good luck Scott, Sound like you are on the right path. MacL.>

Refugium size 6/13/04
I have a 300 gallon reef tank with a 100 gallon sump. I just purchased a 20 gallon tank and stand for my new refugium. I have 1 65watt compact/actinic lighting
<you will have trouble in the long run keeping some of the better macroalgae under light this dim and blue. Little or no actinic is needed here... macros tend to favor warm/daylight (5,000-6,500 K)... and 3 watts per gallon is well on the low end of recommendations for growing plants and algae. Do consider an upgrade if you can... else use a more forgiving macro like Chaetomorpha (one of the best)>
and the 6 pack macro algae from indo pacific sea farms (great products) inside with a 5" live sandbed.
<great company (IPSF) and great sand bed depth... but the mix of more than one macro species in such a small refugium will not work in time my friend. One will outcompete the other and you may be creating a bit of trouble in the meantime as they chemically duke it out with each other>
I am planning to operate lights offset to main tanks lights as indo pacific recommends.
<agreed>
Is this enough to keep nitrates in check and PH stable
<definitely a help with pH I suspect... but not a prayer of this sized refugium being the primary nitrate reducing mechanism for such a large display>
or what do you recommend to tweak it better with what I have.
<nothing much to change with the refugium other than brighter light, a single species of macro (Chaetomorpha) and probably better water flow (200-300 GPH minimum in this refugium) to optimize its function as a vegetable filter for nutrient export. For nitrate control, you could add to the system (next to the sump below perhaps?) a five gallon bucket filled nearly to the top with fine sand, drilled above the sand level with an overflow and fed by a slow stream of water from the sump/tank. This is one of the easiest, cheapest and least expensive denitrifying filters :) >
The room I have is the reason why I can not go over 20 gallons.
<understood... no worries, we make do with what we can. You may just need to finesse other aspects of the tank to compromise... lighter fish load, careful feeding, more aggressive skimming and water changes, etc. if you see nitrates increasing. Anthony>

In response to 6/13/04 refugium? 6/14/04
I have a 300 gallon reef tank with a 100 gallon sump, and after reading your response to my question on my new refugium I made some changes. First now because of room I went from a 20 hex to a 35 hex. And lighting I am going from a 65 compact to a 175 Hamilton 10k halide with a fan. and I have the overflow going to my sump and a Rio 1700 with a dial to tone it down. And I added more live sand. Well what do you guys think? I really value your opinion. Thanks,Tanker240
<the upgrades will serve you well. The extra volume int he refugium certainly increase your potential for mass (algae) for nutrient export as well as surface area to cultivate microcrustaceans. The halide is an excellent long term investment and good value (light produce per watt consumed). It doesn't approach the 5 watts per gallon necessary for some fo the more demanding macroalgae (like Gracilaria) but will be just fine for equally desirous or better types like Chaetomorpha. All good :) Anthony>

Refugium
Hello Crew:
As always I can turn to your great wisdom and advice to guide me, a new aquarist through this great adventure of marine aquariums.  
<Wow!  After reading that statement, I suddenly aged 50 years, grew a long white beard, got a walking stick and a white robe and was transported to a distant mountain top!  Seriously though...  thanks for the kind words, but there is no great wisdom, just a lot of learning the hard way and desire to help others avoid the same.>
I just upgraded my tank to a 75 gallon fish only tank and am itching to replace my existing CPR wet/dry unit with the CPR Aquafuge Pro Refugium Sump.
<Wonderful choice!>
My question is, what is your opinion of this product and are there others that you would recommend over this one?
<CPR has a great reputation, so I am sure it is a fine product if you are the kind of person that prefers to pay a premium for a pre-made product.  If you are handy and enjoy tinkering, you can probably build your own with a stock all glass aquarium, some pieces of glass and some silicone.>
I plan to just harvest Chaetomorpha algae, throw in some live rock and sand.  I was told this system is far better than the current one I have.  Is this true and is this something I just replace the old one with?  Thanks again! Siaty
<This question is somewhat subjective, but in my opinion, a refugium will be a far superior method to the wet/dry.  You will still have some maintenance to do, but it will be simpler and you will not have the problem of accumulating nitrates like you will with a wet/dry.  I also would suggest managing your FO tank like a reef tank (powerful lighting will or course NOT be necessary).  That would include maintaining high calcium and alkalinity levels and brisk water movement to keep wastes suspended.  All will lessen algae issues, increase oxygen saturation and generally make your life much easier.  Best Regards.  Adam>

Algae for Refugium
I have a 55 gallon FO aquarium and I am adding a CPR hang-on refugium. I read about the Caulerpa on this site (a lot of info) but I still can't decide what kind of algae to put into the refugium. << I have this problem as well.  So many wonderful types of algae and few places to grow them. >> Since the refugium is visible, I would like to add algae that looks "good" and will also keep nitrate and phosphate levels low. << If you ask me all algae looks good. >> I would like to have more then one type of algae, like maybe a type of seagrass at the bottom and Fauchea Sp. that would fill in the middle. I am not adding any coral but still I don't want an algae that requires constant maintenance or could poison my tank. << Good thinking. >> What should I do? Since the refugium is hang-on should I not have 24/7 lighting? << I don't think so.  I think I would stick with a 12 hour light cycle, with the light ON during the night, and OFF during the day. >> I think there would be a lot of light going into the main tank. Where can I purchase algae like Gracilaria, Ochtodes, and Chaetomorpha? << Oooh, tough question.  If you can't buy it locally where you are at then I would suggest inlandaquatics.com or IPSF.com >> I really would like to know what you would put in the refugium? << I like Caulerpa taxifolia, C. mexicana, and I have C. serrulata in my tank now.  I also like all the Dictyota spp. if you can find some. >> Also, should I do a DSB in the hang-on refugium? What substrate should I use, live sand, mud, BioSediment, a mix? << A lot of personal preference there, but I really like the Carib Sea crushed coral or crushed aragonite over the mud options. >> Last question, what algae would be good for a ten gallon aquarium with a maroon clown. The tank has been set up for about 9 months with nor problems and nitrate stays low about 10ppm. << Well it depends on lighting and how much work you want to do.  Caulerpa racemosa is probably the easiest to grow.  But, it isn't the best looking (to me at least) and it grows so fast you have to keep harvesting it.  Where as C. serrulata grows so slow that you don't have to worry about that. >> It has 60 watts of 50/50 lighting. << To me, that isn't much lighting so I would stay away from Dictyota and go with Caulerpa. >> The algae would be primarily for decoration. Thank you so much and this site great, Andy << Thanks Andy, good luck. >>
<<  Adam Blundell  >>

Refugium Plumbing Question
Hi Bob:
<Ryan today in his absence>
I have scrolled through nearly all the posts on this subject trying to find the answer to my question with a 100% definite, but alas I cannot find it...so...simply....
I understand that you should return the refuge (being gravity fed) water directly to the tank not the sump, however, I cannot drill my tank and I already have two extra returns hanging over the top of the tank and do not want anymore....so....can I "T" junction my refugium water into the main return line from my sump??...And if so, I guess the sump and refuge pump should be the same.....If not, any other ideas as to how to do this??
<Yes, simply run a bleeder line off the main return, with a gate valve to regulate flow.  Use a simple overflow system with strainer to return water to the sump.  Great diagram here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/plumbingmarart.htm.  Good luck, Ryan>
Thanks.
STEVE G

Refugium article?
Hi Bob,
<Hello Peter>
Kudos on the site, it has been an incredible resource
for this beginner. I did have a quick question,
though.
<Okay>
Was your article on refugiums intentionally left
incomplete? I am confused about some of the plumbing
aspects; in particular, how to make sure I don't
overflow the fuge & drain my tank in the event of a
power outage.
<Ahh, the short piece posted on WWM is indeed incomplete... in fact, the popularity and utility of refugiums is such that friend and co-author Anthony Calfo and I penned a title (Natural Marine Aquariums, Reef Invertebrates) to present more of a complete set of ideas re these tools... some 80 pages of the four hundred page book are devoted to refugium technology>
I clicked on the link for the refugium article (not
FAQ), & munched merrily away at it, as I have been
with every other article I've been reading from you
folks, but then as I'm anticipating the creamy center,
savoring every tidbit of knowledge & experience, it
fizzles out into:
"How to do it:
Separate filtration, light/dark options,
pumps/equilibrium…"
And then only the references. It looks like someone
was putting down a couple reminder notes of what they
wanted to write into the article, but never seemed to
get back to.
<Oh... let me take a look... yes, you're right that's all there is, and indeed that IS all there is... or was. This short "article" was penned/sold/presented in TFH mag. several years back... and it's about all the space they had interest in using... for others the URL on WWM: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/refugium.htm>
I have ordered the Conscientious Marine Aquarist from
MarineDepot.com, & am awaiting delivery. Perhaps it is
covered in detail here? I will see.
<Mmm, no. Most of CMA was finished in the mid-90's... see Antoine and I's NMA series... Marine Depot as well as Amazon and others offer this title as well... and if you're interested in refugiums it is (as far as I'm aware) the most complete/definitive work to date on the topic>
Perhaps in the meantime, though, someone could
complete the article? In particular, I would like to
see some diagrams of valve & plumbing layouts.
<Mmmm, me too! Here's my big offer, response: Please do investigate refugiums to the point of authoring articles on their design, construction, maintenance... including aspects of plumbing, pumping/circulation, algal and other organism selection, and their operation/maintenance... and I'll help you place (sell) them to the print and online zines... really>
Thank you for any additional info that can be added to
this section, & of course, for everything else that
has already surpassed my expectations!
Pete Cushnie
<Do consider my offer. Such popularization of these devices is well-warranted. Bob Fenner, who spent a couple of decades trying to convince people to use skimmers, and doesn't want to, make that, doesn't have that much time/patience for refugiums to catch>

Re: Refugium article?
D'oh! What does it mean when you ask a question & get
offered a job?! ;-)
<Hee hee! I've stated before that there are few more gratifying propositions than asking folks (or being asked) to work together>
Well, I see at least that I'll be ordering the other
book very soon. As intriguing as the offer is,
however, I'm afraid it will be quite some time before
I'm up to snuff to write an article authoritatively
enough to appear on your site! In the meantime, I
think the best way I can contribute to the education
of your readers is to pen you the odd note
occasionally & let others learn from your responses to
my misadventures :-D
<Sounds good>
Thank you for your prompt & completely unexpected
reply!
Pete
<Be chatting... and writing. Bob F>

24 hour lighting in refugium with fish? 5/31/04
Adam, Thanks for the advice.  I moved my lawnmower blenny to the refugium
but I did forget to mention that I have only a 20 gallon refugium.  This
should be large enough for a blenny though - correct?
<It should be fine for a while, and this shouldn't be a permanent
arrangement.>
This does bring-up one more question:   I was told I would not need to be
overly concerned with the Caulerpa "going sexual" if I keep the refugium on
a 24 hour light cycle, so this is how I currently have the lights set.
<I have heard this too, but I am not sure how reliable it is.  The best way
to avoid these problems with Caulerpa is to not use Caulerpa.  Chaetomorpha
is very fast growing and has many advantages over Caulerpa, including the
fact that it does not "go sexual".>
I think I read that most fish require a light / dark cycle though.  Is this
the case and, if so, what is the minimum number of dark hours the blenny
needs?  Do you recommend providing some dark period for the blenny? --Greg
<Yes. This is probably a good idea.  Keep the Caulerpa well pruned and you
should avoid any problems.  Alternatively, eliminate it in favor of other
less problematic algae  Either option should be fine.  Best regards.  Adam>

Tang Heaven Q's 5/31/04
Greetings from Denver!
<howdy>
I'm in the middle of doing some research on tangs
before I purchase one.  I like the Naso but don't want
it to be too cramped in my 150.  
<I'm very grateful to hear of your consideration/empathy>
I'll probably go with a surgeon, as it is smaller.  
<yes, do consider a smaller Zebrasoma species which you can enjoy for its full lifespan in the 150. Yellow tangs are fine choices... Sailfins however get too big and mean for most community tanks>
I keep quite a bit of Caulerpa in my refugium to absorb phosphates and other garbage.  Can I replace it with Tang Heaven and still
expect the same "water cleaning" results?
<I do believe Gracilaria/Ogo (AKA Tang Heaven) would be a much better choice. Equally good nutrient export potential, and far less noxious to water quality, and clearly non-toxic to fishes over the long run (unlike Caulerpa... there are papers published showing inducement of death to fishes fed Caulerpa to excess). You may need brighter lights and stronger water flow for Gracilaria though... its not as adaptable as Caulerpa, but it sure is safer and more useful IMO>  
Thanks in advance for your help.
<with kind regards, Anthony>

Hair Algae in Refugium 5/30/04
Hi Crew, I have a quick question for you this time.  My refugium is being overgrown by hair algae, which is choking-out my Gracilaria and Caulerpa.  What do you recommend I add to eat hair algae (but that will not eat ‘pods).  I have a Synchiropus picturatus and a Synchiropus splendidus so I cannot afford to
impact my ‘pod population.  I did add a few red leg hermits and two tiger tail cucumbers to the refugium (I also had a Cyano problem) but these do not appear to have any impact on the hair algae.
<No hermits are really good algae eaters.  You may consider a comb tooth blenny (Sailfin, lawnmower, bicolor, etc.), but your best bet may be manual removal.>
I have a small pygmy angel that loves hair algae (and I would love to remove it from my main tank because it also loves to nip at my Lobophyllia) but I am concerned it would eat ‘pods too.  I also have a lawnmower blenny but, as well as it likes carnivore pellet food, I am also concerned with this fish eating ‘pods.
<The angel is a much bigger risk to 'pods than the lawnmower blenny, but even the blenny may eat quite a few, even if it is only incidental to eating the algae.  However, the impact will probably be no greater than any other control method.>
Would a lettuce nudibranch be a good choice or do you have a better suggestion?
<Lettuce nudibranchs would likely eat the Caulerpa before the hair algae.  I am still thinking that manual removal is your best option.>
Thank you for the help! --Greg <Glad to!  Adam>

A Small Refugium With Huge Potential!
I have a 300 gallon reef tank with a 100 gallon sump 1/2 full. I just set up my new 20 gallon refugium next to main tank on its own stand and overflow. I have a Rio 1700 pulling sump water into refugium and the overflow hose goes back in next to pump return hose to the main tank. The lighting for the refugium is a 65 watt 10k/actinic compact bulb. I purchased the 6 pack macro algae pack from Indo Pacific Sea Farms (great products),
<My favorite e-tailer!>
with a 5" live sandbed and they recommend to run my lights offset to main tank lighting. With all this said do I have enough going on  in the refugium as far as plants and a few critters like 4 snails 1 sandsifter seastar, 2 cleaner shrimp to help keep my nitrates at a low level, and to  keep the main tanks pH balanced or what should I do to tweak it and make it better? The 20 gallon refugium is all I have room for.
<Well, a 20 gallon is a bit small for a tank of this size, but it can still deliver benefits for the system! I think that you've got a great set of creatures in there. The deep sand bed and macroalgae will, in time, foster the growth and development of a variety of beneficial infauna, and helps supplement the display with a continuous supply of natural plankton. As far as nutrient export is concerned, the DSB can help, as will regular harvest of the growing macroalgae in the 'fuge. Enjoy watching this little world develop and the benefits that it will bring your system! Regards, Scott F>

24 hour lighting in refugium with fish? 5/31/04
Adam, Thanks for the advice.  I moved my lawnmower blenny to the refugium but I did forget to mention that I have only a 20 gallon refugium.  This should be large enough for a blenny though - correct?
<It should be fine for a while, and this shouldn't be a permanent arrangement.>
This does bring-up one more question:   I was told I would not need to be overly concerned with the Caulerpa "going sexual" if I keep the refugium on a 24 hour light cycle, so this is how I currently have the lights set.
<I have heard this too, but I am not sure how reliable it is.  The best way to avoid these problems with Caulerpa is to not use Caulerpa.  Chaetomorpha is very fast growing and has many advantages over Caulerpa, including the fact that it does not "go sexual".>
I think I read that most fish require a light / dark cycle though.  Is this the case and, if so, what is the minimum number of dark hours the blenny needs?  Do you recommend providing some dark period for the blenny? --Greg
<Yes. This is probably a good idea.  Keep the Caulerpa well pruned and you should avoid any problems.  Alternatively, eliminate it in favor of other less problematic algae  Either option should be fine.  Best regards.  Adam>

Refugium questions 5/27/04
Hi Crew,
<howdy>
Have been reading as much as I can on WWM, it has been very helpful. Also, CMA is a great book. I have a 45g rectangular (small I know) w/ 70# LR, 40# CaribSea aragonite mixed w/ 10# LS.
Emperor 400 Filter, Prizm Skimmer & 2 AquaClear 802 Powerheads for circ., & 112 watt Coralife light.
<the skimmer I suspect does not yield consistent skimmate (daily or near daily? Else do consider an upgrade. You will find a lot of criticism for this skimmer abroad). Also, the lighting is modest if you intend to keep any corals. Try to get around 4-5 watts per gallon of daylight (don't count the actinic blues here) for best results>
The system has been running for 2 months and I just added 8 hermit crabs and 4 snails. In 2 days they wiped the tank clean of all the brown hair algae that had begun to grow.
My first question: Do I need to provide the crabs and snails with a source of nourishment until I get other livestock in the tank?
<perhaps a little bit. The hermits will be easy... they eat most anything (be careful... they really aren't reef safe)>
It looks so clean I don't know if there is anything for them to munch on. Eventually, I want to add a couple clowns, some invertebrates, a tang down the road
<this tank is not big enough for any tang species (aggression and adult sizes). Please resist until you get a longer tank>
and maybe a couple mushroom corals up towards the top.
<yes, mushroom corallimorphs would be a great choice to start with>
After all the research I have done I want to get a refugium started, as much for the 45g as for a display for myself.
<excellent>
I have attached the design using equipment I already have.  I would like to drill a hole for the overflow from the 45g, instead of using an overflow container. But this may be difficult, since I already have the tank running.
<the tank would indeed have to be drained dry to drill it, then refill>
Can I safely transfer the LR, LS & snails & crabs to another container for a day while I have a hole drilled, or would it not be a good idea to disturb things?
<very little trouble at all... I agree. And do firmly believe it would be well worth the effort. Be sure to drill a large enough (size/number of holes) overflow... consult the bulkhead manufacturer to see about flow ratings. Drill enough to run 800-1000 gph through safely (the equivalent of three 1" holes or one or two larger holes)>
Do you see any flaws in the current design?
<the image did not come through for me, my friend... alas>
When I have it up and running, do I remove the Emperor filter?
<little matter either way. Do continue to use it if you select large or messy feeding fishes>
And one last question on my current setup. I only get about a cup out of the skimmer per week, not per day. I've played with the settings, but any faster skimming seems to be wasting water. Is this because of the light load?
<not really, my friend. This is one of several skimmers on the market that have a staggeringly poor reputation. Remarkable really. Some folks have been quoted as saying they would not take one for free. Ouch! I would encourage you to investigate a much better skimmer for the long run. Do check out the recent article on skimmers in our first edition of CA magazine: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/HomeCA.htm >
Thanks in advance, you have provided such a wealth of information,
especially for someone new to the hobby. Pete!
<please also consider reading our new book "Reef Invertebrates" (Calfo and Fenner)... it has the newest and most comprehensive coverage of refugiums and so much more (400 pages total). See the reviews of it at Amazon.com and elsewhere in the Net. Kindly, Anthony> 

Substrate for refugium 5/24/04
Hello, I have been reading your site for a while now and I must say it is very good.
<Thanks! Glad you have benefited.>
I am planning on setting up a 33gal ecosystem type refugium for a new 77gal aquarium. I'm not sold on miracle mud, mainly the high price and their lack of scientific support (heard it may be dirt with trace elements added), but I want to have a mud style system for the macro I plan to grow.
<There is no argument that the EcoSystem method works, but I agree that there is no solid support for why and no evidence that it is superior to a simple refugium with a fine grained aragonite substrate.>
What are your thoughts for the substrate in a refugium? Should/can I use sugar sand and if I do what are the pros/cons.
<You certainly can, but it depends on your goal. Fine substrates are superior for denitrification and for the growth of certain worms. Coarser substrates (like crushed coral 3-5mm and larger) have the potential to trap detritus, but are better for the cultivation of amphipods, copepods and mysids as well as tiny brittle stars.>
Should I purchase live sand such as GARF Grunge, kind of pricey but seeded with lots of life.
<Perhaps, but obtaining small quantities of live sand from fellow aquarists will work just as well and is much more cost effective.>
Should I go with aquaculture soil and seed it with a live sand replenishing kit.
<I'm not sure what aquaculture soil is, but I would avoid any terrestrial soils and stick to widely used marine substrates like aragonite.>
Is there anything else that I should consider? Thanks in advance. Ricardo.
<Just be sure to decide what your primary goal is and then customize the environment to achieve that goal. See my comments above about substrates and go from there. Hope this helps! Adam>

-Multiple 'fuges!-
Hi Crew,
Good day to you. You have been a constant source of help & I
am introducing some of the many ideas you have given me through WWM. <Great!> First up I am building a refugium for NNR, & I would like to ask if this seems ok to you? I have a 6x2x2 display.
In a closet behind the display I wish to house
1) The sump.......50 UK gallons ( for all the paraphernalia pumps & such)
2) NNR refugium. This it what the question is all about. This will be gravity fed from the display tank and gravity fed into the sump. Does this sound ok to you? This will have live rock and a DSB in it. <Sounds fine>
3) I will have another refugium above the first one for pod production. (pump fed from tank. Gravity back to main display tank) .....Does this sound ok? <You've got the right idea, it's going to be raining pods!!!>
The skimmers etc I still need where to put them so any advice will be very much appreciated. <The skimmer, heaters, etc, should be housed in your sump as planned. Let's see some pictures once everything's rolling! No help needed here, you've got it all figured out already! -Kevin> Thank you crew.......For so much!......I mean it......... Cheers, Simon

Refugia 5/4/04
Hello again from New Zealand, and further gratitude for the great site. I really lose many hours browsing the FAQ that should be spent sleeping haha!  Its all for the cause I guess!
<Ha!  You're hooked!  There should be a 12 step program for reefkeeping!>
Anyway, my sump (about 50 gallons on a 300G tank) currently has only my skimmer, return pump, and other gear like heaters and carbon bags in it.  Though they are hardly detectable, to keep nitrates down and improve conditions for the little guys (pods etc) could I put a container with a DSB into the sump or am I better off creating another form of refugium/DSB separately from the sump? Does this make sense?
<Perfect sense.  This decision is largely a subjective one based on your particular circumstances.  I have seen refugia and sandbeds contained in vessels as simple as a food storage container or an empty salt bucket all the way to the most elaborate custom sumps.  I would aim to have a 4" minimum sand bed (6" is a better target) that is at least 1/3-1/2 the area of the bottom of the display (this is simply a quick rule of thumb).>
I should/could probably put some live rock into the sump also to aid biological activity/filtration right?
<Yes, but consider habitat diversity as your primary goal.  Any amount of rock you put in your refugium will probably be small relative to the display.>
I know creating a separate refugium would increase water volume, and I could do loads more with it, but for simplicities sake and space saving is this an option??
<IMO, some refugium is better than no refugium, so if your best/only option is to incorporate it into your existing sump, that is perfectly fine.  Just be cautious to protect pump inlets from sand particles, macro algae, etc.>
And am I correct in assuming that you do not have to light
refugia, unless you are growing algae, or do pods etc optimally need light also??
<This is correct, however, in my experience, you will get much more benefit from a refugium that is lit on a schedule opposite your display.  Macroalgae produce fantastic habitat, nutrient uptake, and when lit opposite the display, they will help stabilize pH, O2 and Redox.>
Thanks for all the great information and help! Ivan
<Glad to!  Best regards, Adam>

Dwarf Seahorses, Refugiums and Macro Algae 5/2/04
Hey gang! Good morning from New Jersey!
<Good afternoon from the other side of the country>
First off, I'd like to thank you for the wonderful service you do for us fish
geeks. It is greatly appreciated.
< You're most welcome from  another fish geek!>
Now, I wanted to run this past you guys before I end up bashing my head
against the wall later.
<Yikes......Please refrain from head bashing. Then the seahorses will really have a problem and you will have a headache.>
I currently have several dwarf seahorses in a five gallon
but the brine shrimp is really taking its toll on the nitrate levels.
<Hmmmm I assume you are feeding live.  My first thought is perhaps you are over feeding a bit. You might want to cut back a bit and do more frequent water changes. If you are not keeping any clean up critters you might want to consider a few Nassarius snails, which will quickly consume detritus, uneaten food, decaying organics, and fish waste. In addition  a few of the Hawaiian red shrimp Halocaridina rubra would feed on excess brine shrimp>
So I plan on upgrading to a 10 gallon for increased water volume.
I would like to partition off half of the tank for a refugium.  The side that the seahorses are on would be bare bottom for easy cleaning and the fuge side would contain a DSB with some rock and macroalgae. The hang on filter would uptake from the
seahorse side, spill out through the fuge and flow back into the display area.
<It's not the typical dwarf set up but sounds very good actually. I have a friend who kept her dwarfs very successfully in the 40g refugium connected to her 125g reef.  Be sure to provide some sort of barrier to the intake to protect them from getting sucked against the intake......perhaps a sponge. I would probably be tempted to go with at least a little bit of sand and some of the macros on their on their side for a more natural environment. Unless of course you are keeping captive bred dwarfs which might be used to a more barren tank with a glass bottom.
I have one concern .......live rock and the macros combined with live Artemia is the perfect breeding ground for hydroids which as you probably know can wipe out an entire tank of dwarfs. You can avoid this by treating the rock and macro algae with Panacur for 3 days There is more information on dwarf seahorses and their care on www.syngnathid.org  in the Tiny Tots forum and specifically hydroids and this treatment regimen in this thread.....
http://www.syngnathid.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Dwarfs&Number=11739&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=all&vc=1 >
So my question is concerning the macro.  I have access to several
types but I'm not sure which would be best for this application and I know that
mixing too many species, especially in this size tank isn't good.  Keep in mind
that dwarves fair best in 1.019 - 1.021 SG. <Yes I am familiar with that.>
I have access to the following: feathery Caulerpa , grape Caulerpa (...would prefer however not to use these), Halimeda ,Penicillus ,Udotea ,Ulva, red Gracilaria, green Gracilaria, and Bryopsis (haha! want some?)
< I think I will pass on the Bryopsis but thanks so much for the generous offer <G> anyway . You are limited here by the optimal specific gravity range of the Dwarfs, with the exception of the Penicillus which can be kept at 1.020. The rest of these species have an optimal specific gravity range of 1.023 to 1.025.>
Depending on which macroalgae you think is best, do you think I could get
away with a 15watt NO 9325 Kelvin bulb on a 10 gal? (I'm thinking probably not!   
hehe) How about 2x13 watt PCs 50/50?..or would you suggest a different Kelvin
since the only thing in the tank that would benefit from a specific spectrum
would be the algae?
<You can find the answers to this in this article Macro-Algae Use in Marine Aquariums http://www.wetwebmedia.com/maralgae.htm . >
thanks, chickie moomoo
<You're most welcome, Leslie>

Feeding His 'Fuge! (Refugium Life Forms)
Hi all,
<Hi there! Scott F. with you today!>
I have a 90 gallon reef system that has been up and running for 7 months or so. As to the advice of many I set it up with a 40 gallon above tank fuge. I stocked it with a DSB ( as well as the main tank). I also placed many spaghetti worms /amphipods. rock rubble ...live sand etc.,  from IPSF in Hawaii.
<My personal favorite e-tailer!>
My question is that, while I do see a great deal of pods and worm type crevices in the sand, I am not sure that they are actually getting downstream to the main tank. I have kept the main tank fishless for the whole seven months (one algae blenny to help initial algae bloom ) in order to develop a healthy population of pods. There is some green Ulva in the fuge as well . Any advice as to getting these bugs to go downstairs to the main tank. The fuge does overflow into main tank, but I do not think they are getting there.
<I'll bet a fair number of them are getting there. You may want to look at night, after the lights are out. I suppose you could also engage in a rather tedious "manual transfer" of these guys by net, etc.>
Also, I never actually see these worms but I do see burrows in the sand. I assume this is from there presence.
<Yep...You don't see tem too often, but their "burrows" and "castings" betray their presence>
Also any advice on feeding the fuge critters?
<Well, nutrients and food from the main system will usually do the trick. You can also "feed" the life forms in the refugium directly with some finely-sized frozen foods, like Cyclop-Eeze and the like. Regards, Scott F>

Super set-up
Hello again!!
<Hello! Ryan with you today.>
I've written you guys many of times and found your advice very helpful!! Thanx a bunch!!! <No problem>
However, the time has come again where I am stumped and need some advising.  I would like to start off by saying my goal is to create the simplest most natural reef system I can. <I share your goal> I have a great interest in natural filtration types such as refugiums and such.  I have a 70g tall tank (36x18x24) and a 50 gallon trashcan refugium that I'm stocking with various plants and such.  It's got about 2in of crushed live rock in the bottom with about 2-3 inches of CaribSea special grade on top of that.  With the addition of some very rich "mud" (1-2) inches and some more crushed live rock I'm hoping that I'll have quite the live food generator for my corals and fish that refugiums are known for.  Just the other day I bought Mike Paletta's infamous Ultimate Marine Aquariums which has kept me chalk full of ideas for my system.  One tank setup that caught my eye was the system with a make shift chiller that uses sea water for cooling.  There was a huge 250g tank dug into the ground where the water
table is high (system was built by an ocean).  This natural system inspired me to come up with a similar plan.  I have a 1-3 ft crawl space under my house which seems to stay much cooler.  I'm going to be getting a thermometer soon and ill find out exactly how much cooler it is down there.  Either way,  I was think of putting a large 100-200 gallon tank down there to house my naturally cooled water.  Have you ever heard of systems like this? <Absolutely! It's an ideal solution.  Geothermal heating/cooling solutions are wonderful.>  In theory this would work I'd just have to send a water return down through the floor and one back into the tank.  Now with all that said I was thinking I could also make this "chiller" an awesome refuge for some very low light/highly nutrient dependant sponges down inside the tank.  I'd place a large volume of sand in the tank with some rubble and rocks for the sponges to attach to.  I'd plan on buying a new very high flow pump to power the system.  I could dedicate one portion of the return from the pump as a closed system loop which would
circulate water inside the sponge refuge (sponges need water flow).  The other return from the pump could go to my tank and its various wave making attachments. <Potentially great idea.  There are, however, some obstacles that may arise.  You'll need to make sure it's accessible to maintain.>  Eventually I could foresee this system working very well.  With a large population of dissolved organics from my refugium and tank waste the sponge refuge would have lots of food.  Consequently it would filter my water of these organics and there would be no need for a skimmer. <Hmmm....I don't agree> This is something that I've come up with and would like to know if you guys would think it would work.  If you don't quite get the whole system I could explain further, but you guys are pretty sharp. <I like the entire idea- Big thinkers do big things.  But I encourage you to get it on paper- plan, plan and plan some more.  Every problem you have while you're actually constructing is going to hinder your design- The more little "glitches" you can work out in the planning stages the less thinking on the fly will need to be done.> PLEASE let me know of anything I might be overlooking and such.  Or if you have any questions. <I would still add a skimmer, I'm biased.  I love the amount of oxygen that a skimmer puts into the water, and I think that removing organic debris before it is processed into waste is a wonderful way to keep water crystal clear.  However, many others scoff at skimmers!  I would certainly want a skimmer on hand in case my sponges took a dive.> Chris aka "fishtank"
I'll be eagerly checking my mail for a response!!!
once again thanks to all of you guys and gals I really appreciate it!!!!!!!!
<No problem!  And boy, if you actually get this thing built, we want some pictures.  Good luck, Ryan>

Crabs in refugia? Best not to 4/20/04
Hello Anthony,
<cheers, Drew>
thanks for the reply. Would these crabs do well in a refugium used to grow macro algae?
<not likely my friend... when refugiums are best employed as plankton producers and nutrient exporting devices, the inclusion of predatory creatures like fish, shrimp, crabs, corals, etc is not recommended because their inclusion is a net burden on the system. In a phrase: they take more than they give, in refugia. They require an import of nutrients (feeding) and/or they deplete more desirable microfauna (worms, microcrustaceans, etc) that they can/will prey on>
I am very new to marine so still learning and getting new
ideas, was thinking of having a refugium with live sand and some live rock and light with lights to promote algae growth, is this the right idea behind a refugium,?
<yes... this is one possible way to run a refugium. Let me encourage you to read our chapters on refugiums, plants, algae and live sand/rock in our Reef Invertebrates book. It is the most current and comprehensive information to date (about 100 of 400 page book)>
Thanks again. Drew
<it looks like you are in Canada, my friend... if so, you might check with the following distributors for our books and others:
Best regards, Anthony 

Algal Problems, 4/21/04
Hi everyone, <Michael here, up at the crack of dawn (10 am)>
I have a problem with BGA growing in my refugium - on the part of the sand that is uncovered by Chaetomorpha, and on the Chaetomorpha itself. It is not in my main tank - just the fuge. What's wrong? <Do you have an extended photoperiod in your refugium? This coupled with high dissolved organics could lead to blooms. Light is never the main cause of Cyanobacteria, though: DOC concentrations could be less than ideal>
And secondly, how much Chaetomorpha is supposed to be in the refugium? <I have as much as will grow in mine, I trim it when it starts getting too prolific> How tightly packed? <Don't let it choke itself out> Filling how much area? <Just let it take it's course> It is growing very well, but I've never been able to find any info on how much to keep in there and how much to thin out at one time. <Yep I have quite a lawn of Chaeto myself. I trim it about twice a month. Don't worry too much about it>
Thanks for your time!  Bess <No problems. M. Maddox>

- Refugium -
Thanks for the fast response!  This has to be the greatest site I've come across in years on the net.  As for the overstocking I'm certainly aware that the fish will soon be too large to inhabit my 75.  I won't tell you how many or what kind of fish I've had in this tank at once or how many have "disappeared" over night with no body to be found (Mr. Moray).  I'm trying to find a home for the puffer right now and I have a friend who is willing to take it, but his tank is overstocked at the moment as well.  I should have stated in my previous email that I'm planning on converting to a reef set up ASAP.  I thought I could keep the eel and the hawkfish safely with most sessile inverts. <Ahh... no, the hawkfish will enjoy the snack.> The puffer will hopefully have a home soon and the Picasso I'm unsure of. <Also not to be trusted in a reef tank.> The Picasso is my absolute favorite saltwater fish (to look at least) but he's constantly scooping up mouthfuls of sand and spitting it on my live rock which I assume isn't good for the rock. <It's not bad for the rock...> I've been "brushing" the sand off by waving a thin fanhead paintbrush back and firth above the surface of the rock to remove what I can about every two or three days.  Is this o.k.? <It's fine.> I'll probably wait until the Picasso dies to do the reef set up (or when my last three inhabitants are too large). <You may be waiting 20 years or more unless you do something intentionally (or unintentionally) to kill it.> My next question is about the refugium.  I do want to add macro alga or sea grass to the tank as well as a large piece of live rock currently in my main tank about 18lbs) on top of the live sand bed to produce food for reef inhabitants.  Will I need to add baffles with plants in the refugium, and do you think miracle mud would be better with the rock and plants than a sand bed? <There are no hard-set rules about baffling in a sump - most times it makes sense to have these to control excess flow that might disrupt any substrate in the refugium. As for mud vs. sand... I have no opinion about this... do what you feel should be done.> 2 more questions then I promise I won't bother you again (soon anyway!) Should I split the canister outtake into 2 or more outputs with only 1 going to the refugium (it pumps 330 gph and I thought this might be too much for the refugium) and will I need to drill a hole in the tank to set up an overflow system? <Uhh... I wouldn't put a canister filter in front of a refugium because in most cases the water will be too clean for any constructive use in a refugium. As for overflows... there are external devices which will work without drilling holes, but that being said, having holes drilled in a tank is the best way to go.> Once again thanks in advance for the expert advice.  
Sincerely, Troy
<Cheers, J -- >

Rubbermaid Sump (4/2/04)
With each page I read, I am more impressed with the vast content of your site.  It may be the most useful website of any kind, not just aquatic. 
<Thanks. A lot of people have put plenty of work into it over the years. I learn something everyday here too.>
I just bought an All-Glass 125 with dual built-in overflows.  They claim a capacity of 600 gph per overflow, so at max rate it is almost 10X. Tank will be FOWLR with 120lbs live rock (everything transferred from existing 60 gal).    I'm new to sumps and I want to keep it simple. For the sump, I thought of using a 24 gal Rubbermaid tub that fits nicely in the cabinet.  The overflow bulkheads will each have 1" inside diameter vinyl hose that will just sit in the tub (no drilling of the sump).  The sump will also house the skimmer (will AquaC Urchin be ok for this?). <Get the Pro, or consider a Euro-Reef. I love mine.>  
The sump will also house the return, a Mag 18 with 3/4" vinyl tubing, teed to feed both returns included in the All-Glass overflow kits.    This setup as described would require just the Rubbermaid tub with no baffles, bulkheads, etc.  Is there anything wrong here? <Sounds OK.> Can the overflow hoses just sit in the sump without any fancy connections? <Yes. I like flexible PVC. You also want ball valves to be able to shut off flow or regulate it a bit.> Does the skimmer and/or pump need to be in its own "compartment" or can the whole thing be one large tub? <Fine together if no refugium planned.> Is there an easy way to add some mechanical filtration? <Floss bags for the overflow water to pass through as it enters the sump.> What would you recommend to filter detritus and prevent skimmer bubbles from going to main tank? <If you have the skimmer on the opposite end of the sump from the pump, you will not likely have a bubble problem. If there are bubbles getting to the pump, then you can make sure the water coming out of the skimmer passes through a filter sponge. Do read more about sumps/plumbing on WWM to learn more. Steve Allen>

Refugiums (4/2/2004) 
Hello fellow aquarist, <Michael here today> I have some questions regarding the possible set up of a refugium for my 75g saltwater tank (nine months old). <Always a good addition> I currently have a 3 inch sand bed with about 65p of live rock, a purple Linckia, an electric blue hermit crab, a few blue leg, red leg, and Cortez red leg hermit crabs, some Caulerpa, Halimeda, paint brush, and some other macro algae that I'm unsure of, a 3 inch Picasso trigger, a 5 inch porcupine puffer, an 18 inch snowflake moray and a 3 inch red spotted hawkfish. <A heavily overstocked tank, I'm afraid. Your moray will attain 40", your porky nearly 24", and your Picasso trigger 12". I highly suggest a 300+ gallon system for your current inhabitants, or find new homes for them. As a side note, I'm very surprised any of your inverts are still alive seeing as they're a favorite snack for almost every fish in your tank> For filtration I use a Fluval 404 canister filter (three baskets of bio rings and one basket of carbon, a sea clone protein skimmer 100 gallon, a penguin dual bio wheel hang on filter (both baskets are bio rings) <May actually want to use the cartridges, the current bioload will be producing massive amounts of waste, the extra mechanical filtration might be necessary> and the heater in the main tank. I have an extra 29 gallon tank that I'd like to turn into a refugium that I'd display next to the main tank. The 29 stands 2 1/2 inches shorter than the main tank so I'm guessing I'll have to level out the tops. How can I get the water back and forth from the two tanks and how should I set up the baffle system? <The tanks don't need to be level to set up a working refugium, unless you want the refugium to overflow into the main tank. You could use the canister filter returns to pump water into the refugium, then have a the water overflow into the main tank if raise the refugium above your display tank. If not, you could install an overflow box into your main tank to drain into the refugium, then pump it back out again with a powerhead or external pump. A baffle system isn't strictly necessary, it's mostly used to direct water through a certain course of macro alga, or some sort of plants (mangroves, manatee grass, etc)> I want to add a plenum to the refugium with a four inch bed of live sand with macro algae. I was going to use an undergravel filter as the plenum. What are your recommendations? <I'd avoid the plenum system and just go with a DSB of 6" or so. Use fine aragonite sand, no crushed coral and the like> I'm having problems with my nitrates (the fish explain much of this), <as does the overstocking I'm afraid> they're around 30ppm. <A bit high, shoot for lowering that to 10-20 soon> I do 5 gallon water changes weekly to try and keep up. <I'd advise 10+ gallons weekly> Also could I use the 20w bulb fixture over the 29 gallon refugium (16 inches deep at full) or will this be insufficient? <Depends on your wants. For your refugium to act as an Nitrate reducing DSB, you don't need any light. For macroalgae and/or coralline algae, you'll probably want about 100 watts of 50\50 florescent> Thanks in advance. <No problems. Be sure to address the overstocking issues, as your fish will grow quickly!> 
Troy Bowers - 1st Year Novice 
<We definitely all were at one time, but you've found the right place for answers. Hope I've helped - M. Maddox>

Refugium set up 4/1/04
Hello Crew,  Your website is GREAT!  I have been an avid reader for over a year now and learn something new every day.
<Glad you have benefited!>
Just a quick question about setting up a 'fuge.  I have been planning and reading up for about a year now and am ready to start putting together my first saltwater tank.  I would like to convert my  55 gallon and use an existing 20 gal I have on hand as an upstream refugium with DSB.
<Sounds great!>
Only problem is, around 1.5 years ago it (20 gal) was my hospital tank and I had used it to treat ich on a couple of occasions. It has had CLOUT and CURE-ICK (both made by Aquarium Products) used in it over a year ago. (Neither of the products lists copper in the ingredients, but...)  Then was cleaned and refitted to house my Blue Gourami and 2 White Spotted Rafael's for a few months.  Since then I have striped out all the substrate and filter media and thrown it away and cleaned it with a bleach solution and stored it in the closet for the past 3 months.
Will this still be usable as a refugium since neither of the products list copper or is it only good for a hospital tank from now on?
<I don't see any cause for concern in using this tank.>
Thanks SOOOO much for your time and effort and rest assured that we newbies are listening/reading and you are saving MANY fishy lives!  You make a difference! Sincerely, Tom
<Thanks for the very kind words!>
PS:  Wife wants to know if there is a support group or some pill I can take  for this addiction (GEEZ, I only have 6 tanks and a Koi pond...)HAHA.
<6 tanks and a Koi pond, huh?  Lightweight! <g>.  Just tell her you could be spending your time and money at a strip joint!  Best Regards.  Adam>

Plumbing a Refugium (3/29/04) 
Hello WWM Crew, <Steve Allen tonight.> 
Well, I have spent the last hour trying to find the answer to my question to no avail. If you have already answered this please accept my apology for I know you are all busy people. Thanks though for all you are doing for the hobby. <No problem. Happy to help if possible.> 
My question is... I have decided to add a refugium to my 400 gallon FOWLR tank. I have plans to enter the invertebrate realm by adding clams and corals. <Be sure to research the best lighting.> The tank has been set up for almost two years. I have only a few fish currently. I am trying really hard to take things SLOWLY and avoid any mistakes. <smart> I have decided that I need to add a refugium to the system in preparation for the invertebrate newcomers. I have a 20 gallon that will become the 
refugium but it has to go below the main tank next to the sump. What I wanted to know is how to plumb it in. The easiest would be to use an overflow system and pump water from the sump to the refugium and have it return back to the sump to then be pumped up to the main tank. <Actually, often better to go from the tank to the 'fuge to the sump and up. Drilled overflows are best. Do you already have these for the sump. Here's a link to a nice diagram: http://www.inlandreef.com/Images/DIY/Plumbing/refugium_plumb.gif > 
My concern is that all of the beneficial micro life will be destroyed by the impellers on all my pumps. <Certainly an issue, which is why an upstream refugium with gravity return is favored by may. Still, some have demonstrated that quite a few 'pods get through alive.> I bet the best way is to have the overflow from the refugium return directly to the main tank but that is no an option for me. <Understood> Lastly, at night I can see literally thousands of little critters in my tank (probably due to the low fish load) if I transfer some of my existing rock and sand is that enough or should I send away for some more in hopes for a more diverse system? <I'd bet you have plenty of diversity already. Just seed the refugium as you suggest.> Thanks again for all your work. 
Robby Phelps <Hope this helps.>

Refugium macro for tang food/nutrient cycling 3/28/04
Anthony, Thanks again for such a prompt response!  
<always welcome>
I am left with one remaining question...  Since you suggest against adding Caulerpa (and Bob suggested I use a macro algae other than my red Gracilaria), what do you suggest I use
for nitrate/phosphate export and to feed my many tangs?  
<Frankly... I don't think you should give up on Gracilaria so easily. It is the most readily consumed and one of the easiest to keep by far. Any else I can think of is substandard. Still... as a suggestion, Ulva/sea lettuce types if you prefer>
Since space limits me to only a 20 gallon refugium for my 180g aquarium, I need a very efficient method of nitrate/phosphate export (although my nitrate level has never been measurable, PO4 has been excessive). -Greg
<Gracilaria and Chaetomorpha (not edible) are two of the very best. Anthony>

Refugium Maintenance 3/28/04
Hello and Good Day Crew.
<cheers>
I have been reading over WWM for quite some time now.  I am sure I have asked questions that have already been answered on the site, and I apologize for that.  My question today is one concerning my refugium.  It is a medium Aquafuge (up and running for about 8 months now)  It is pretty jammed packed with LS, LR, short feather Caulerpa, Gracilaria parvispora, Ulva sp., tons of Strombus
grazers( Strombus maculatus) which seem to be breading at will, 1 nice sand bed clam, and what seems like millions of Amphipods breeding and in all stages of life (for my Mandarin) besides the occasional feeding I pretty much leave the Refugium alone.  
<all good... and mostly agreed, although I am sure your system would benefit by limiting the species of algae to one. Pick Gracilaria here as the most efficient/least noxious>
I have noticed lately that it is getting pretty grungy in there with a real nice coating of sediment.  
<a common problem... better water flow would reduce this>
Although I know this is probably pretty normal for what is going on in there...Is there any maintenance/cleaning that I should be doing short of harming everything in there?
<siphoning out some of those sediments periodically would be beneficial indeed (a functioning settling chamber). But again, do add more/better water flow to keep more solids in suspension for use by filter feeders if not export by the protein skimmer>
Thanks for all the help Steve
<best regards, Anthony>

Refugium care II 3/28/04
Anthony, Thank you so much for your response!  I really appreciate all the help. Unfortunately, now I am even MORE confused...  You see, in my original email. I asked if I should increase the flow in my refugium but Bob said I already had significantly too much flow.  He also indicated the amount of light I am using should be plenty for red Gracilaria.  I realize there are no "black
and white" answers to most of these questions since so many factors are at play in various aquariums.
<true true... and my dear friend is sitting across the desk from me as we speak/type (I'm visiting SD to work with homie on images for our next book). To your problem, each case is specific/unique... and while you could have too much water flow by the numbers, it may very well be the application of the flow (not adequately adjusted) that is the real problem. The proof is in the pudding here... detritus has accumulated, and nuisance algae has flourished here (refugium) but not in the display. That's pretty cut and dry mate: excess local nutrients mitigated by weak water flow>
After removing the Cyano last weekend I did add another powerhead to the refugium, bring my flow into / out of the refugium to about 200 gph and the flow within the aquarium to about 400 gph.  Of course this uprooted the Gracilaria as well so it has been tumbling ever since.  
<excellent!>
I even added 3 scarlet hermits and 4 blue leg hermits to try to keep the substrate stirred a bit.  
<yikes... do resist this. The hermits in particular (pull them out, my friend) as these creatures are predators on desirable infauna (worms, pods) in the refugium. The refugium needs to be fishless and predator less otherwise>
Still, everything is covered in Cyano.  
<it takes time my friend to correct... the nutrients have to first be exported (via the skimmer and/or large water changes)>
It has even floated to the water's surface and collected bubbles, forming a white / red foam mat about 3/8" thick.  I am preparing to scrub all of this out again and I am going to add some Caulerpa Prolifera as well.  
<adding the Caulerpa will be a very serious long-term mistake IMO. There is much written in our WWM archives on this subject (including contrary opinions) and especially our Reef Invertebrates books (detailed low-down on risks and benefits of Caulerpa)>
I did add Phosphate Sponge and PhosGuard and this has brought my phosphate level down to 0.2 PPM so maybe this will finally be what allows me to get the Cyano under control.  I am still worried though since the Cyano on the substrate is spreading daily.
I just purchased The Conscientious Marine Aquarist two weeks ago because I saw it deals with water filtration, etc.  I guess I made the wrong choice for my particular need (although the book is of course a terrific resource for keeping fish and initial setup).  
<agreed... CMA is really one of the very best comprehensive books on marine keeping. Outstanding>
I am now wondering if I should remove the plenum from my refugium and just leave a DSB (currently I have both).  
<not needed... I'm of the opinion that the plenum neither helps nor hurts>
I am also wondering if mud (i.e. "Miracle Mud" or "WonderMud") would make a better substrate if my needs are 'pod growth, macro algae growth and NNR. What do you think?  
<I am sure mud is not your solution here>
Maybe Cyano would not grow as readily on a mud substrate?  
<ahhh...no. The contrary>
(Too bad I bought 45 lbs of Aragamax sand for the refugium if this is the case).  I guess the good news is I have a thriving 'pod population (1,000s in the refugium, Chaetomorpha, sand and skimmer) for whenever I do add the mandarins. I have spent literally days - possibly weeks worth of reading on WWM trying to beat this Cyano.  If you have any additional suggestions, I would greatly appreciate your input! --Greg
<I truly do feel you can/will kick this easily. Anthony>

Requisite Reading in Refugium Religion
Hi Anthony: Pardon the alliteration, but I was feeling somewhat creative today.
<no worries, I was positively pleased to peruse your pre-conceived placement of a perky phrase>
My blue hippo tang has been barking up a storm and chasing everyone in the tank as of late. Now I know why... the Steelers let Mark Bruener get away! Boy, is the tang upset!
<weeping, yes>
Now, on to the refugium. After many hours of reading the plethora of refugium lore, in addition to looking at my under tank space constraints from every conceivable angle, I will only be able to install a 10G refugium, the primary intent of which will be for nitrate reduction. I have a 125G, FOwithoutLR LR, with a sump below. I will try and phrase my questions as lucidly as possible to avoid any unnecessary ambiguity.
* Do you think that the 10G will be at all beneficial considering the size of my display tank, or should I scrap the project?
<no... it can be useful. But to actually get effective NNR (natural Nitrate reduction), this 10 gallon tank will need to be mostly filled with fine sand to work (I'm thinking at least 8" deep here to work in such a small vessel>
* Assuming the answer to above is yes, then here is my plan. The refugium will be 23"H x 17"W x 6". The top of the fuge will be roughly 6 inches higher than the top of the sump. The fuge will require roughly two feet of line from the sump. I was planning on using a Rio 600 to move raw water (prefiltered and pre protein simmered) from the sump to the fuge. I would let gravity return the water from the fuge to the same place in the sump. I would use a ball valve on the line from the sump to the fuge to control the water level in the fuge.
<I fear this fuge is not deep enough to adequately accomplish NNR>
* If the above sounds good, what size tubing would you use for both the input and output lines of the fuge?
<a single 1" might do the trick, but do confirm the flow of your pump at the given head and compare tot he 300-600 gall capacity (overflow vs. siphon) of a 1" bulkhead>
* Would you use only a DSB, or would some plants and/or live rock be also beneficial?
<in a refugium this small... pick one goal/benefit and stick with it. In this case - NNR via DSB= deep sand only>
* I would opt for lighting in a reverse cycle to my display tank. I believe that I read that 3 or 4 watts per gallon is a good gauge. Is that correct?
<yes>
* I have been quoted a price of $78 for this fuge (not including shipping), with all necessary fittings, from a company found on the Web called Texas Corals. Are you familiar with this outfit?
<have not heard of them... but the price sounds very fair>
Their pricing seems to be very favorable compared to others.
<agreed>
Thanks for your time, Andrew. The blue hippo says hello!
<I grunt my regards in return to him>
Regards, Mitch
<kindly, Anthony>

Refugium & Cyano: Part IV 
Hello again WWM Crew, 
<cheers> 
I continue to struggle with Cyano in my 20g refugium (180g display). I included two of my previous emails with responses (as well as pictures of my refugium & display tank) for history. 
<it pains me to see the display tank shot with 5 tangs (including a Naso!) plus a Foxface in a 6 foot aquarium. Cyano problem aside, this tank was poorly stocked and these fishes will suffer in time IMO. Do consider their cumulative adult sizes (add them up by referencing them at fishbase.org) and know that they will stunt and likely suffer abbreviated lives (could be 5 years instead of 15) and regardless, is simply not conscientious aquarium keeping. I'm also surprised that you have enough water flow to keep the powder blue content (high flow/surge species). When there are so many other beautiful fishes in the trade, it confounds me that folks will unnaturally crowd systems with naturally aggressive congeners or other closely related species> 
I have tried everything, even time but alas... Cyano is winning the battle. A fellow aquarist has given me some (possibly contrary?) advice recently as well. Since everyone has different experiences and opinions, I would really appreciate it if you would read through his comments / suggestions below and provide feedback. 
<OK... will do> 
He is suggesting removing my DSB and using a bare-bottom refugium and main tank as well as adding long spine urchins (reasoning below). 
<the DSB is not your problem, my friend... nutrients are. And while Diadema urchins are outstanding grazers on microalgae, they will not touch Cyano and they are not detritivores. I see no merit to the recommendation as it stands> 
This is not something I want to just try on a whim unless there is sound reasoning that it will work. Hopefully you have time to read his entire email, as I really need the additional advice.  Advice I was given: 
0.1 in phosphate is still way to high. You need to get it under .05 minimum. 
<agreed here,... do find the source of your phosphates. This is easy enough testing samples of food in water, source water, etc.> 
Like I said before, Cyano will out compete green algae when phosphates are high. 
<not necessarily true. Arbitrary and case specific in the complex environments of aquatic ecosystems> 
They will grow on your greens and overtake them. I looked at your pictures and your phosphate problem is most definitely from your substrate. 
<no one can make this claim based on a picture... and ironically, your DSB in both photos looks particularly healthy to me> 
You need to run bare bottom until you have your algae growing in your refugium and then only add sand to make your display tank look good. I do not run any substrate in my refugia. The Caulerpa and other matter ends up forming a mulm on the bottom which the copepods, Mysis shrimp, and other creatures feed off of. 
<ahhh...no. Copepods eat algae/phyto.> 
I am not guessing at the answer to your problem. I have been through this with many hobbyists. You need to get rid of the thick substrate in your refugia. I know others recommend the type of set up you have, but it is not conducive maintaining low nutrients in my opinion. 
<heehee... this sounds like my wacky anti-DSB friend from PSMAS in Seattle WA> 
I you do decide to siphon all of it out. Shut off all pumps and siphon carefully. Remember this: when you disturb the surface area where bacteria reside, more will end up in the water column. Increased bacterial levels in the water column are indicative of RTN out breaks in reef tanks. 
<agreed> 
I have had conversations with Sprung about coincidences with detrital/substrate disturbances and RTN outbreaks and we both had similar experiences. That is why I siphon it out carefully, taking all water with the substrate and putting as little stirred up detritus into the water column. The Cyano appeared in your scrubber because you already had phosphate levels to support it. Lighting, sand turnover and other factors can affect it also. Detrital matter making it to your scrubber would be deposited on the surface of the substrate and decay producing the necessary environment for Cyano. Anything decaying produces PO4. 
To convince yourself try these things. Take a sample of water from the substrate in the scrubber. A syringe would work great. I use a syringe w/filter to get just water, but, it is not necessary. If you get some crap in the test water, it is ok. Even an eye dropper stuck in the substrate and the bulb release slowly to suck in slowly will do. Run a phosphate test on the water. Or, siphon some substrate out carefully and test the water that comes out with it after letting it settle. You will be amazed at the phosphate level in this water. 
<this is simply not a fair assessment... all substrates in practical applications (including all those healthy DSB systems that are 5, 10, 15+ years old) will have higher phosphate in the substrate/bound. It does not mean that they will spontaneously fuel Cyano growth> 
When I have done studies on this I used a Nutrient analyzer in my lab and water samples from my tank (with no detectable phosphate on your type test) indicated that the substrate was still a point source for phosphate. In other words in was an order of magnitude higher in the substrate than in the water. 
<this is natural... you can find this on reefs too> 
I was measuring in umol/L. In your case I would estimate that if your water column is 0.1 ppm that water in the nooks and crannies of the substrate is aprox 1 ppm. (at least) Caulerpa thrives in a low phosphate low nitrogen environment and then takes the phosphate even lower. 
<Caulerpa is easily neglected/abused... be sure you understand all of its merits and risks, or simply elect to use an equally effective and fare more stable macro like Chaetomorpha or Gracilaria> 
Siphon your substrate into a bucket and rinse it out, put it away for later use. Once you are running a bare bottom, you will see the amount of detritus that accumulates on the bottom and you will be able to siphon it out easier. 
<significant detritus should not be accumulating if you have adequate (right amount and right delivery) water flow in the system... a common flaw in many tanks> 
In you display tank, I would add a couple long spine urchins. They will really clean the rock off good. 
<true... very true> 
Use Mexican Turbos for filamentous greens, and Astrea sp. also. 
<True for the former, but diatoms for the latter> 
My 30 gal refugium is just packed with Caulerpa. The refugia part comes into play, because all of the plant matter provides a home and food for them. They do not need any substrate. I siphon half of the brown mulm out every three to six months. In this stuff you can find tons of life.  If you are thinking that the thick substrate is going to help with denitrification or removal on nitrate do not worry. With a scrubber system you never get nitrate because the algae pull out the ammonia before it even gets to nitrite. You are trying to engage two separate disciplines for nutrient removal. You should pick just one, and in my experience a scrubber is much more effective and easier to maintain. 
<my experience is that a DSB is far more effective and far less maintenance. My experience to back this up, beyond professional installations through the years, is the use of 48,000lbs of aragonite sand in DSBs in my coral farming greenhouse. Wrote a book about it ;)> 
I always had the same exact problem you are having when I tried a thick substrate. The only time I get Cyano now is when I add too much iron, manganese, and zinc. Then I get small mats forming on the top of the water in my refugia. I harvest them out, back off on the supplements and re-establish equilibrium. I harvest out a lot of Caulerpa. About a freezer bag a month. I am using a shop light on top and one in the front now on the 30. This thirty takes care of a 40 and 125 reef with a 300 gallon sump. 
Thank you!!! Greg 
<the message is still the same Greg: nutrient control - by adjusting water flow (increasing if necessary), getting skimmers to work more effectively (a 180 gall without all those tangs would still need/want 2 skimmers cleaned alternately to reduce the interruption of skimmate production), and water changes are usually too weak in problem systems (20-30 gallons weekly would be nice here to assist proper fish growth, reduce allelopathic compounds from corals and algae, and replace trace elements instead of using random concoctions from bottled supplements.). I have yet to see a tank that improved nutrient export could not eradicate nuisance algae in. Best of luck, Anthony>

New to refugium 3/22/04
Hello crew,
<howdy>
Let me give you some background on my system. I have a 75 G FOWLR tank with a hang-on Bak-pak protein skimmer, 50-60 lbs of Fiji live rock, Eheim canister filter (2213 or 2217 not sure which one but rated for 90 gallons) 2 MaxiJet powerheads, emperor power filter and 1.5 inches of crushed coral substrate. I have a blue-spotted jaw fish, a purple Firefish, a Sailfin tang, and two blue-green Chromis.
<yikes... and odd and inappropriate species mix, my friend: the Sailfin tang is/will be too aggressive for the passive Firefish, Chromis and Jawfish... at best will outcompete them for food over time... and more importantly, will outgrow this 4' aquarium or stunt and die prematurely (they need large aquaria to be sure)>
Except for the Chromis I have had all the fish for a least a year.  I also have a cleaner shrimp, some hermits, and turbo snails.  I do a 15-20% water change weekly and clean the Eheim monthly (Is this enough or should I clean it more often).  
<good maintenance here... no worries>
I feed once a day (enough food so it is all eaten in 3 minutes or less) with a mixture of frozen formula I and II and prime reef supplemented with Selcon and VitaChem.  Nonetheless I still have high nitrates (usually 20-40 ppm).  To this end I have considered adding a refugium to cultivate macro algae and copepods, amphipods, etc.  
<consider deep sand too in here for both natural nitrate reduction and better plankton growth. 4-6" of sugar fine sand>
Until recently I of course have known nothing about sumps or refugiums (irresponsible on my part, but always trying to learn).  So I have been reading your site and others trying to gather as much information as I can.  
<please do consider our new "Reef Invertebrates" book by Calfo and Fenner. It has the most current and comprehensive (~100 of 400 pages) coverage on these topics>
I am trying to make it as simple as possible and this is what I have come up with so far. Please let me know if I am on the right track or not?  First since I don't have a predrilled aquarium, I am going to purchase an overflow box.
<can work... but I am adamantly outspoken against using this flawed technology (see archives). They can/will overflow or fail in time>
I am leaning towards a LifeReef pre-filter siphon box or a CPR overflow (not sure which is better. Have heard good things about both, although the LifeReef system seems to be less problem prone and better design iMO).  
<I have always said/joked that I will not sleep in a house with a siphon overflow <G>.>
Next I was going drain into a 20 gallon tank down below with a return pump to act as my sump/refugium.  
<better to have a dedicated refugium... else too small. complicated to share with a sump IMO>
Into this sump I was thinking of placing a live sand bed (4-6 inches?)
<excellent>
and some macro algae with some lighting over head on a timer opposite the display.  
<seek Chaetomorpha or Gracilaria algae here>
Is it that simple or am I missing something?  
<much to say>
Do I need baffles?
<nope... not likely, too complicated>
If so, can I just silicon a glass plate into the tank for the return pump and maybe skimmer or is this unnecessary?
<the latter unless the flow is very high>
Also, If I do this I was planning on removing the media from the Eheim and replacing it with course and fine filter material as well as Polyfilter and carbon. Finally, I would totally remove the Emperor power filter. How does all of this sound?
<you are on the right track for sure... but should take the time to see other aquarists running refugiums. Do look up a local or regional aquarium society for this... great resource and fellowship, and please do consider finding/reading our book>
Thanks for the help and the awesome web-site. Jeff
<best regards, Anthony>

Refugium Plumbing
Hello crew, <Hi! Ryan with you today>
Let me give you some background  on my system. I have a 75 G FOWLR tank with a hang-on Bak-pak protein skimmer, 50-60 lbs of Fiji live rock, Eheim canister filter (2213 or 2217 not sure which one but rated for 90 gallons) 2 MaxiJet powerheads, emperor power filter and 1.5 inches of crushed coral substrate. I have a blue-spotted jaw fish, a purple Firefish, a Sailfin tang, and two blue-green Chromis. Except for the Chromis I have had all the fish for a least a year.  I also have a cleaner shrimp, some hermits, and turbo snails.  I do a 15-20% water change weekly and clean the Eheim monthly (Is this enough or should I clean it more often). <Sounds about right>  I feed once a day (enough food so it is all eaten in 3 minutes or less) with a mixture of frozen formula I and II and prime reef supplemented with Selcon and VitaChem.  Nonetheless I still have high nitrates (usually 20-40 ppm).  To this end I have considered adding a refugium to cultivate macro algae and pods.  <Always helpful>
Until recently I of course have known nothing about sumps or refugiums (irresponsible on my part, but always trying to learn)<And so you will succeed>.  So I have been reading your site and others trying to gather as much information as I can.  I am trying to make it as simple as possible and this is what I have come up with so far. Please let me know if I am on the right track or not? <Yes> First since I don't have a predrilled aquarium, I am going to purchase an overflow box. I am leaning towards a LifeReef pre-filter siphon box or a CPR overflow (not sure which is better. Have heard good things about both, although the LifeReef system seems to be less problem prone and better design iMO)<Little difference>.  Next I was going drain into a 20 gallon tank down below with a return pump to act as my sump/refugium.  Into this sump I was thinking of placing a live sand bed (4-6 inches?) and some macro algae with some lighting over head on a timer opposite the display.  Is it that simple or am I missing something? <It can be this simple and still work wonders> Do I need baffles? <Need? No> If so, can I just silicon a glass plate into the tank for the return pump and maybe skimmer or is this unnecessary? <It can help reduce bubbles, but isn't required.> Also, If I do this I was planning on removing the media from the Eheim and replacing it with course and fine filter material as well as Polyfilter and carbon. Finally, I would totally remove the Emperor power filter. How does all of this sound? <Sounds great, removing the emperor is a good idea.  Not ideal in combination with live rock.  This plan sounds simple and beneficial- Good luck, Ryan>
Thanks for the help and the awesome web-site.
Jeff J

Refugium 3/18/04
I had a question I have been thinking about for a while.
I am about to set up my first refugium.  The main goal of my refugium is to create as many copepods, amphipods as possible...
<these creatures eat different things and need different refugiums to be optimized: amphipods are carnivorous and need coarse matrices to thrive (Chaetomorpha algae, rocky sand or other such media... even polyester filter media)... while copepods need fine silty/muddy substrates and are phytoplankton feeders.>
and to also grow algae to eliminate any algae that may grow in the show tank....so  here is my question...
<sounds like a Chaetomorpha spaghetti algae tank will satisfy 2 of 3 goals here>
I just recently got an overflow put in my tank....and
at first the water was so loud falling to the bottom...
<this is form the drains being undersized/under numbered or the holes being overdriven>
so I made a DIY Durso standpipe... it totally silenced the noise, but I was thinking...what if i just put bios balls in the overflow...
<bad idea... acts mechanical, needs cleaning, suffers from raw water (needs pre-filtered) and causes nitrates in time>
a lot of people told me it would create more nitrates in the long run, but if i have a refugium, wouldn't that
eliminate the nitrates and in fact create more algae to feed some of my fish?  
<bad science even if it works. By that line of logic, you won't mind if I pee in your pool if you have a really good filter? <G>>
is there any bad side to filling it with bios balls...
<more than a few as per above>
i would get even more filtration....btw...i have a 90 gallon with 120 pounds of live rock... also, is there any correlation between the amount of algae in a refugium and the number of pods?
<yes... surface area/real estate for them to grow. Do consider reading our extensive coverage on refugiums, plants and algae in the new "Reef Invertebrates" book by Calfo/Fenner. Kindly, Anthony Calfo>

Snails and refugia 3/17/04
Hi there, thank you for your help, I love reading the files.  I also adore my copy of Reef Invertebrates, it's on my night stand as a semi permanent fixture.  I have two questions I haven't been able to answer in my reading.
<outstanding... thanks for saying so>
First, we seem to have baby snails in both our larger salt water aquarium as well as our 12 gallon eclipse which is presently (for the last three months since set up) housing inverts with a few soft corals and fern Caulerpa only.  Both tanks have a mixture of Astraeas, margaritas, Nerites, bumble bees, Nassarius, and Ceriths with the Nerites and Ceriths being the predominant species which has solved our algae (diatom on glass) problem.  
<the Ceriths in particular are excellent and reproduce readily>
These snails look to be either Astraea or Nerites in type, they are so small, though plentiful.  I understand that the Astraea snail has spawned in captivity, but survival to a shelled form, is it possible?  
<not possible/practical for their long larval cycle>
Or is this a live rock hitchhiker (larger tank is 60 gallons and has been in operation for more than a year.)?  
<yes... quite likely>
We have seen these snails in both aquariums and another variety on the invert tank that looks a lot like a baby Nassarius snail. In our larger tank we house a pair of tank bred Banggai cardinals (along with a six line wrasse, a dwarf pygmy angel, two false percula clowns, and a royal Gramma Basslet)  I understand that the cardinals do not do well on flake food and we would like to take a vacation this summer.  
<if they presently eat flake food... then the vacation is no trouble at all. If not, most fish can still easily withstand a 5-7 day fast>
Would buying a Mysis shrimp starter kit  (the shape is hexagon, a refugium won't work, we already tried the hang on the back model with a steep increase in nitrates and deterioration of water quality.) help them to be able to eat during this vacation and to go away for the weekend in the future?  
<yes... excellent>
Or would they be eaten up rapidly?  
<do revisit the passages in our reef invertebrate book on zooplankton reactors (in Refugium chapter) and seek to produce them continually>
The supplier is Inland Aquatics.  
<Morgan Lidster at InlandAquatics.com is a great guy. Very knowledgeable, honest and a credit to our hobby/industry>
Thank you for your help, and again, great book!
<thanks kindly, Anthony>  

Refugium Planning
Hello,
<Hey there! Scott F. here today!>
Hope you are having/had a great day.
<And you the same!>
I have some questions concerning refugiums.  I have looked on the FAQ's but I have a few specific questions if you don't mind.  I will have a 150 gallon tank with a 40 gallon sump/refugium (combined).  Do I place the skimmer in the first overflow chamber where all the raw water goes, or the last chamber before it returns to the tank?  ( I have read different thoughts on this from Fenner and Calfo).
<I like the first chamber, as Anthony advocates, as the skimmer can receive a consistent flow of "raw" water from the system, thus providing maximum operating efficiency>
My main goal for the refugium is plankton and pod production for live feedings of future fish/corals.  With that said, I would like to have Gracilaria in the refugium.  (Also for additional tang food).  RI by Calfo and Fenner (great source of info) states Gracilaria needs bright light and brisk flow.  Will 7 times my tank circulation be brisk enough?  Too much?  Will it be too much for the plankton production?
<This will not be too much for plankton production, IMO. However, the motion that Gracilaria needs is a gentle and continuous "tumbling" motion. which keeps it suspended in the water column without being ripped apart. You could try one of my techniques that has worked in high flow sumps before: Place the Gracilaria in a small plastic pasta strainer, floating in the sump. The macroalgae will get the benefit of the motion without being turned into Poke garnish in the process!>
Also, should I put filters/pads in the refugium to supplement plankton production?  Any specific types of pads/sponges?
<You could use some of the larger "pore" filter pads, or sponges. My favorite e-tailer, Indo-Pacific Sea Farms (www.ipsf.com), offers an "amphipod kit" that features a small "mat" of macroalgae for the 'pods to inhabit...It works well>  
And for lighting, could I get away with a PC?  Maybe 96 watts.  (times 2???)  I am pretty lost with the lighting requirements.  So could you spell it out for a dummy (me) to understand.  I plan on having the lights on reverse daylight period.  
<You're right on, IMO. 2 X 96watt PC's should work fine>
Last question (ya right)  My LFS said that I don't need any sand/mud in the refugium.  Just LR.  Does this sound correct?  Everywhere I read, LS or mud is used.  What would you suggest? I am new to the fish world (If you couldn't tell) and would really be grateful for some suggestions.
<For a newcomer to the hobby, you certainly sound like you've done your homework! I'm sure you'll be successful! As far as a substrate it concerned, it's really personal preference. Different substrates (or a lack thereof) will result in the proliferation of different fauna. I've done it with and without substrates. Coarse substrates tend to "produce" amphipods. You could compromise with a shallow layer of coarse material and some small pieces of live rock. There really is no "right" or "Wrong" here. Part of the fun of refugia is the experimentation. The field is wide open! Have fun! Pick up a copy of Anthony's "Book of Coral Propagation" and Anthony and Bob's "Reef Invertebrates" for lots of great, up-to-date information on refugia setups and animals. Good luck!>
Thanks in advance.  PS.  Thank you, thank you, thank you...
<You're welcome, you're welcome, you're welcome! Regards, Scott F>

Refugium Scheme
Have a 180gal reef tank and would like to build a cryptic refugium with a DSB for NNR and a zooplankton reactor in the pump room behind it.  Can these be done together, or should they be handled separately.
<Your call on that one. No real right or wrong on this, in my opinion. I like your idea, however.>
What would the ultimate setup be for these two functions?
Thanks, Rich
<If it were me, Rich, I'd do it kind of like you envision. Locate the reactor adjacent to the refugium, where it can compliment. Anthony's "Book of Coral Propagation" has some good information on refugium and system design. You could also check out the excellent DIY site ozreef.org for more. Good luck! Regards, Scott F>