Re: lighting 20 gallon refugium   11/15/06
Hi all,
It's been way too long since I have been to WetWebMedia. Excellent site as always!! My lighting took a nose dive over my 20L refugium and am getting ready to order new lighting fixture. I have been reading about the recommendations for lighting again and was under the impression that 5\6 watts per gallon for chaeto was needed. <should be plenty> I had two 65 watt PC's over the 20L. Has this changed to less watts in the last year as postings are saying less watts will work fine? Would a fixture of a quad tube 96 watt work?<quad 96 watts...should be plenty...you will have Chaeto growing out of that refugium lol...hope you have some hungry tangs!! good luck, IanB>
Thank you for your time as always.
Dave

Reverse Daylight- or 24/7 Refugium Lighting?  10/31/06
I have been running my refugium for a few months now and have gotten over the curse of Cyano outbreak and it's now limited to just a bit on the top of one of my foam sponges in there.  
<Glad to hear that! Good job!>
I had a decent sized hunk of the Chaetomorpha (sp?) macro algae in there and it has seemed to stay the same size all along.  I was waiting for growth for weeks and weeks with very little change.  I had been using a small 15 watt daylight bulb (power compact) that I kept from my freshwater lighting.  I recently upgraded to
the CPR 36 watt bulb/fixture.  This is a 7,300 K bulb.   It didn't seem to make too much difference either after using it on 24/7 for about a week. Last night I turned that light off and left it off until the next day about the same time.  Then when I turned it on, I noticed significant growth in my Chaetomorpha.  Would this be because of the new, more intense light?
<Quite possibly...And perhaps because of the dark period...>
Or would this have something to do with the lights being off for 24 hours?
<Hard to say; I'm just speculating.>
With my previous light, I had been in the habit of having my lighting setup on a "reverse lighting" schedule.  But I got tired of not being able to see the going's on in my 'fuge during the day, so now the nights are on 24/7.
<I hear ya...>
Macro algae doesn't need rest to grow, right?  We just turn the lights off for the purpose of balancing PH and so forth, right?
Thanks,
Jason
<Correct, Jason. The theory behind "reverse daylight" refugium lighting is that it will minimize, or even eliminate the day/night pH fluctuations in our systems. I have employed both the 24/7 and reverse lighting schemes, and I always preferred the "reverse daylight" method over continuous lighting, myself. Hope this helps! Regards, Scott F.>

Refugiums...Chaeto Without Sand?? - II - 10/20/06
Follow up from the second message.  I am using a 14 watt mini spiral fluorescent floodlight type bulb in a clip light which is equivalent to 65 watts. Is this enough light for my refugium.
<It is enough light providing the color temperature of 5500-10000 is there.>
And also, should I use a small power head in my refugium?  My sump is the same exact design that is in the refugium article And I have been reading things about upward flow.
<There should be some flow across the sand/mud, but not enough to stir it up.  The return pump from the refugium to the tank should create enough flow
to satisfy the refugium.>
Thank you again.
<You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>

Refugium Lighting - Chaetomorpha - 09/30/2006
Hi folks,
<Hi, Dave!  I'm sorry this is so late in coming to you....  Our webmail system wouldn't let some of the Crew reply to you.  Though I am able to do so, I have unfortunately been out a bit.>
I need lighting for my Chaetomorpha in my refugium.  The refugium is a little more than a square foot within my 33gallon sump with intentions of nutrient export from my main 90 gallon soon-to-be reef system.  I have an inch of miracle mud in the refugium and the water level is about 14", the light fixture would be approximately 6" - 8" from the water surface.    Given that my refugium is tiny, will either of the lighting systems below suffice?  
<You don't need a whole lot of light for Chaeto....>
Option A:   I'm looking at the CoralLife 9" MiniAquaLight Fixture.  It comes with a 9W 10000K and a 9W Actinic Lamp.  I'd replace the 9W actinic with another 9W bulb. should I be using 6500K for both?  Or can I use the 10000K in conjunction with a 6500K?  
<Oh, sure.  No problems with this at all.>
Two bulbs totaling 18W of lighting over a square foot refugium?   I could incorporate the two 13W bulbs as mentioned below.  Option B:  I found at Home Depot a 'trouble light' that takes two small 6" power compact bulbs.  Each are 13W and I can easily get either 7000K or 6500K bulbs for it.  
<This would probably be perfectly functional.  Please, though, be VERY cautious about the ends/connections where the bulbs meet the fixture, and any other areas that might be undesirable to have exposed to saltwater or evaporation.>
I'll have to be creative with the trouble lamp to get it fixed overtop of my refugium.  From reading through your lighting FAQ's for Refugiums, all I picked up out of the material was that 5,000 - 6,500K bulbs would suffice and approximately 5W per gallon for Chaeto.   Am I concerned with just lighting the Chaeto I'm assuming?  
<Pretty much.>
If so, the area would be less than 4 gallons.. ???  Would it matter much that the 9" light system from Option A does not fully span the width of the refugium as far as the lighting is concerned?  
<That's probably just fine.  Just be sure to concentrate the light above the macroalgae.>
-Dave
<All the best to you,  -Sabrina>

Fuge Lighting  9/23/06
Hey guys. Thank you for your help selecting the right CaribSea
<Mmm, was out with Toni from C till all hours drinking... this AM!>
substrate for my DSB plenum. Now onto lighting. Have read all your refugium lighting FAQs and they have helped me dramatically for my previous installations. My refugium is only small and it is all I can squeeze into (am allowed to by my better half!) my cabinet. It is basically a 3ft sump with one area for a small amount of SeaChem matrix bio white rocks (sorry if that is vague, I can not remember what it is called). This will also house the AquaClear 70 pump powering my remora pro skimmer. Then there is the fuge section which measures 16" X 12" x12" deep. Seeing there will be a 6" bed with a 1" plenum beneath, that leaves around 6" of water depth in the fuge for higher algae. I currently have a nice 2ft power compact fixture I am not using. It is a 2 X 18W 7100k with a parabolic reflector. Due to the relative shallow waters of the fuge, do you think this sufficient?
<Yes>
I know its not helpful, but I am unsure what species of algae I can find in Australia. I have been told to strap on my tanks and just grab some on my next dive. But I have no idea of what I would be grabbing. Sydney water temps are not exactly tropical. Any suggestions?
<Have dived in Sydney Harbour and outside... the species there will indeed work out. Try to gather just one... perhaps in a thick zip-lock bag... and do quarantine/isolate it before placing in another (even static) tank. Bob Fenner>   
  Thanks a lot    
  Garth

Refugium Lighting 9/22/06
ALOHA!
<Hello JB>
Okay, I just setup a new 125G with a 100G sump.  I have a 75G reef ready tank that am going to use for a fuge (SOOO excited, I love fuges but never had one larger than 10 - 15g)  The problem is that there a lot of opinions out there in regards to success and gear choices over a wide range of crazy configurations.  My question is short and simple (although so far this e-mail is not)
-75G Fuge with sand and live rock.  Going to load it up with IPSF goodies.  I plan on keeping Chaeto, <Chaeto> Ulva, tang chow seaweeds, but the priority is going to be on the Chaeto.  So, those are my intentions, here is my question.  I have a single 400W halide pendant type thingie or an 8X54w zTdv-5 type thingie to choose from and I can't decide.  I want the Chaeto to grow, so I wrote you in hopes that you could tell me which fixture would be best for this application and maybe suggest a light spectrum for a bulb.
Once I make that decision am ready to rock and roll!
<My choice would be the 8x54 with two 420nm actinics and six 6500K tubes.
Thanks for taking the time to help me!
<You're more than welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>

Refugium Question  9/15/06
HELLO James :)
<Hi Randy>
Just got everything set up and a question arose.....The new CPR refugium has a black Plexiglas back, will this still work using the power compacts from the main tank?? I have 2  96W 10000k White Powercompact Bulbs on the refugium side, with 2 96W Dual Actinic on the far side...
<I'm thinking you mean there is no light directly above the refugium.  If so, I don't believe you will have enough light for growing macro.  The back of the tank usually becomes covered with coralline and will block out much of the light.
Small power compacts are available for the CPR, and I'd get one of those.>
Thanks again bud for ALL the help!
<You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
Randy

Re: Water Parameters and New Lights  9/9/06
Hi WWM crew, (especially Bob since he replied to my previous two emails)
<Hello again... sorry for the delay... am out on holiday in Jamaica... and diving, eating and drinking too much...>
I took your advice and made some changes. attached are some photos~
I went to W-mart and purchased a 10 gallon tank then started drawing up a schematic for a refugium that will work for me with my preexisting Fluval system/setup while also using many light parts I already had laying around the house.  I opted for the 10G because the 20G/tall would have been too big for my stand by a little more than a 1/4 inch and 15's aren't anywhere I shopped!
<Are a bit longer and wider, but the same height... as a stock ten>
The idea is to use the refugium as a place to grow marine plants and use them to control water parameters so I can stop with all the unnecessary chemicals already.
<Good>
Refugium Specs:
10 gallon tank/refugium underneath the main tank in the cabinet
10 lbs of live sand in refugium
2lbs. of crushed live rock (not pictured)
Overflow box <Siphon style> from main tank with 1.5" diameter hose to refugium (ball valve cutoff added - not pictured)
Seaclone skimmer in 10 gallon tank
200 watt heater in 10 gallon
Fluval hose from 10 gallon to Fluval canister
Fluval return hose from Fluval canister to main tank
Refugium questions:
I am using two separate light fixtures for the refugium. Both light units rest about 6 inches from the surface of the water. One is a 15watt N.O. fluorescent 50/50 and the other is a twin socket 2x20 watt 50/50 compact fluorescent setup. Is this sufficient for the refugium or should I make a modification to the height or lighting itself?
<Mmm, either one or both will work fine here>
Which lighting schedule is better, 24hr or reverse photosynthesis?
<RDP, reverse/overlapping with your main system>
Do you have any suggestions regarding plant life and which types would be better off keeping with the lighting that I have? There are so many types out there (including Mangroves here in S. FL) that it is a daunting task to pick.
<Nor mangroves in a tank this small... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/refugalgfaqs.htm
and the next linked file in the series of FAQs>
I've been told that Chaetomorpha Sp is the best way to go for many reasons but I want to run this across your desk (PC) first. From what I read, many plants such as Caulerpa go sexual each month and start gamete production with accompanied mass die-off that causes a releasing of all stored nutrients right back into the system. This is bad. so why would people use these plants?
<Mmm, perhaps all they have available... maybe the risks, downsides are outweighed by gains... could be ignorance...>
Do you share the same opinions or is it okay to mix the plant life up a little for other reasons that perhaps I do not understand yet?
<In such a small volume, best to go with just one species>
How much plant life is suggested in a 10G? Should I remove the sponges, Biomax, and/or Carbon from the Fluval now that I will have a refugium and live food running from the refugium through the canister?
<I'd leave all as is>
I've been reading the "Refugium" sections of the site as well as some other sources and cannot seem to get a straight answer regarding the "amount" of critters I should seed my refugium with.
What specific detritivores (types and/or quantities) work well with this size refugium and/or what critters I should stay away from despite their possible popularity in general/ or with bigger refugiums?
<All posted on WWM>
Main Tank Update:
- Adding 20lbs. of live rock to the main system today totaling about 65lbs.
Will add another 15lbs soon.
- Installed the 4x96 watt lights and the corals are acclimating very well thus far and the system appears to be fine (IE: Water Parameters perfect) The Golden Polyps and Red Brain have shrunk a bit but I suspect that they'll be fine because I moved them even lower until they adjust.
- Am seeing a diatom bloom in the form of green and brown substrate but ONLY on half of the tank. but it keeps me scrubbing glass all around.
Why is this happening this way (half tank) and aside from reducing the lighting; is there another more appropriate solution?
<Posted>
Will the refugium plants assist in controlling this?
<Yes>
Is this a result of losing the Fluvals hoses to remove the water from the lower part of the main tank in favor of the overflow box's (only removing
surface water) or is it purely as a result of the stronger lighting?
<Perhaps a bit of both and other influences... the "aging" of your system. Succession>
New lighting schedule (please correct my method if it appears too sudden).
The goal is to run them from 12pm to 12am concurrently.
<The ones for the refugium? Should be fine>
Start times:
12pm - 10000k
1pm - dual Actinic
Stop Times:
8:15pm - Actinic (increased by 15 minutes every 2 days)
10pm - 10000k (increased by 30 minutes every 4 days)
As always, your replies are met with great anticipation. and thank you again for the wonderful suggestions thus far!
Regards,
Gerald
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Refugium Lighting... Mr. Fenner's Recommendation - 09/08/06
What are your recommendations for a refugium light?
<<Are we talking a vegetable refugium?  The 'Lights of America' 65w PC fixtures work very well>>
Mr. Fenner suggested a grow light in his book.  Will this suffice for most macros/mangroves?
<<Indeed it will>>
Thanks,
Mike
<<Regards, EricR>>

Re: Refugium Lighting...Mr. Fenner's Recommendation - 09/10/06
Thanks for the help.
<<Welcome>>
Is this what you were talking about?
9166B - Lights of America 65 watt fluorescent replacement bulb
Wattage: 65 watts
Light Output: 4,500 lumens
Incandescent Equiv.: 500 watts
Dimensions: 9" x 3"
Lamp Designation: 4U/65 (9166B)
For product #: 6065, 6165, 9165, 9166, 9265, 9266
<<Indeed it is...but be aware it requires a PC ballast (LOA fixture) to operate>>
I'm asking because I didn't see any specs indicating that this was a full-spectrum bulb.
<<No worries...is a 6500K full-spectrum bulb>>
Would you recommend this over a Coralife Mini-Compact fluorescent light (10w, 50% 10,000K daylight/50% Actinic 03 blue)?
<<I would, yes.  The LOA bulb/fixture will provide much more "punch" for growing macro-algae>>
This is the light my LFS recommended.  I want to be able to grow a mangrove as well as a variety of macro and coralline algae.
<<Do consider selecting/going with a single species of macro-algae for best results.  Just like everything else on the reef, alga compete/fight for growing space...and alga is right at the top of the list for noxiousness/chemical aggression>>
The growing compartment of this refugium is about 10 gallons (30" x 8" x 10").
<<I think you'll be quite happy with the light output of the LOA fixture/bulb>>
Thanks!
Mike
<<Regards, EricR>>

Reversing Daylight?   6/22/06
Hey Guys!
<Scott F. your guy today!>
I have been reading a lot and have come across many <<sic>> of sites rather majority of them who suppose <<support?>> reverse lighting in the refugium i.e. in the day the lights in the tank and on and at night the when they go off the refugium lights come on. I tried thinking  a lot but could not find a scientific reason for the same, except saving the electricity. Could your guys help me as to how the same help as I was planning to keep my sump lights on 24 x 7.
Thanks
Regards
You guys rock! Big time!
<Thanks for the kind words! The rationale for reverse lighting is that it helps stabilize the day/night pH swings that naturally occur, especially when plants are used. When they are lighted, the plants are giving off oxygen; the opposite happens at night... Lighting the refugium 24/7 is not essentially harmful, but it is not really necessary, IMO. I'd just go with reverse daylight lighting. And I suppose, you will save some electricity by lighting 12/12 instead of 24hrs in the refugium. Hope this helps! Regards, Scott F.>
 

Lighting...In The Dark ... CPR lamps in the UK  - 05/19/2006
Hi guys - a quick question!  Do any of you guys, know of a UK based distributor (or US distributor able to post overseas) for replacement CPR Aquafuge bulbs and starters?
<Off hand I know of none.  Have you contacted CPR by email in regards to this?>  My fuge lighting has given up the ghost after
only 2 weeks use and of course taking it back to the shop (in the US) is out of the question!  Secondly, any idea if UK spec bulbs and starters would be compatible (bearing in mind the voltage difference)?  
<Another question for CPR.  I'm guessing their most cost effective way to market these products in the UK would be by incorporating a step-down transformer into the lighting unit.  Check the bulb to see if there is a part number on it and see if a local dealer can get this for you.  Do contact CPR re this at
www.cprusa.com>
Many thanks in anticipation
<You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)> <<And CPR is distributed in the UK by TMC/Chorleyside. RMF>>
- Steve Morse.

Refugium Lighting - 04/09/06
Dear Crew,
<<Hello Scott...EricR here this morning.>>
First, a big thank you to all of you for your contributions to this hobby.  This site has helped me in numerous ways already.  
<<Quite welcome my friend.>>
However, I have a question which I have not been able to find an answer to by cruising the FAQs.
<<Ok>>
I am preparing to add a large CPR Aquafuge to my 55 gal mixed invert tank.
<<Excellent!>>
I plan on having LR rubble and Chaetomorpha only in this HOB fuge, and run a reverse photo period.  My question is surrounding the lighting.  It seems most Crew members recommend PC lighting, but I was wondering if 1 or 2 14watt T5 bulbs would work over a 'fuge this size (24.5 in x 4.5 in x 12 in)?
<<I think a pair of these could suffice, yes...in the 'daylight' spectrum.>>
If T5 would not work, and I use PC, should I use 1 x 36w or 1 x 65w?
<<Your choice really, any of these should work.>>
Finally, since this light would be over a fuge with Chaetomorpha, would it be best to use a bulb intended for planted tanks?  Something in the 6,500K range?
<<Ah! Yes, exactly.>>
Thanks for your time and help.
Scott
<<Very welcome.  Regards, EricR>>

Refugium lighting?   3/21/06
Hello Wet Web Media team member,
<Good Morning!>
I have reviewed the FAQs and articles on refugiums <Great thing to have, good for you!> and have not been able to determine what a "rule of thumb would be for lighting a refugium dedicated to macro algae (Chaetomorpha). <Usually around 6-7 watts per gallon should do you.>
  I am setting up a 10" x 20" refugium that is 19" deep.  With a 5" deep sand bed the depth will be 14" and about 12
gallons.  Based on discussions with some at the local club I purchased a PC 18 watt fixture (50/50) now that I see it running it just does not seem
enough.  What would you recommend for lighting a 24/7 refugium?  Is there a guideline such as the watt/gallon estimate? <Above> This will sit under the stand
for a 90 gallon reef. <Remember, you can always reap the benefits of an alternate light/dark cycle too.
It helps with the inevitable pH drop when the lights in the show tank go off.  Enjoy, Jen S.>
Thanks for any input
Robert Dudek

Refugium lighting ... James Go  3/21/06
Hello Wet Web Media team member, <Hello Robert.>
I have reviewed the FAQs and articles on refugiums and have not been able to determine what a "rule of thumb would be for lighting a refugium dedicated
to macro algae (Chaetomorpha).  I am setting up a 10" x 20" refugium that is 19" deep.  With a 5" deep sand bed the depth will be 14" and about 12
gallons.  Based on discussions with some at the local club I purchased a PC 18 watt fixture (50/50) now that I see it running it just does not seem
enough.  What would you recommend for lighting a 24/7 refugium?  Is there a guideline such as the watt/gallon estimate?  This will sit under the stand
for a 90 gallon reef.  <Three to four watts per gallon.  You will be fine with your 18 watt tube.  5500 to 6500K works best.>
Thanks for any input  <You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
Robert Dudek

Re: Benefits of refugium ... light and LR there - 03/12/2006
Thanks James. No problem. <You're welcome.> I'll make sure I keep on top of it. By the way, I've been researching throughout the WWM faq but I still can't find a definitive answer on whether I can place LR in a sump with no exclusive source of light? Do I need to place a Light on top of the LR to keep it
biologically effective? <Not needed to keep it biologically effective but any coralline will soon disappear.  Refugiums with Chaeto/Caulerpa do increase water quality by removing phosphates/nitrates from the water.  Lights should be on 24/7 in this regard.>
Thanks,  <You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
Joe

Live Rock In Sump/Lighting Or No - 03/12/2006
Hi Bob,
<Hello Joe. You've got Josh this time.>
A quick question if I may… I’ve read through all the FAQ's on lighting and live rock but still haven’t found my answer.
<Let's see if we can come up with something.>
I was wondering if you could advise me on my plan: I wish to add live rock to my sump to increase biological filtration and I am confused as to whether I need to place a light above them so as to “keep them alive”?
<Don't have to light it. Will still function as LR.>
There is minimal room light that penetrates through and around the stand in which the sump is placed, is this enough? Before you recommend a refugium, I have plans for that as well, although still in planning stage.
<Good stuff.>
I am wishing to utilize as much space as possible for live rock, without cluttering the main display.
<You're plan sounds fine.>
Also, is it advisable that I remove the filter pads from the bottom of my sump to allow the skimmer to work on “raw” water?
<If the pads are only physical, not chemical, then it doesn't matter so much. I would place the skimmer first, pads later though.>
Grateful as always,
Joe
<Glad to help Joe. - Josh>

Aquafuge and transformer...  Maintenance/Operation   2/17/06
Hi guys! <Hello Steve.> Really short question - I live in the UK and am wishing to purchase a CPR Aquafuge from the US.  Do you know of an alternative to the
dedicated light fixture available here in the UK?  I'm concerned about constantly running the aforementioned lights on a transformer you see - or
would this not be a problem? <No problem Steve.  We are all running off a transformer of one type or another.>
Many thanks in anticipation, <You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
Steve Morse.

Refugium Lighting - 02/09/06
Would a regular fluorescent strip fixture (not sure what watt bulb) be adequate on an under tank 40 gallon sump/fuge combo for growing Chaetomorpha algae?
<<I may keep it alive, but you'll have better results with something with a bit more intensity.  A 65w PC lamp would probably suffice.  In fact, one of the 65w 6500K 'Lights of America' fixtures from Home Depot would be ideal and nets you the fixture/ballast/bulb for about $40.  I use two of these over my 55g Chaetomorpha refugium.>>
This would be on a 90 gallon tank which I am setting up and also plan to move my HOB CPR Aquafuge small from my 36 gallon onto the 90 so that I can get a bit better pod population.
<<A 40g Chaeto 'fuge can yield lots of "pods."  Do remember to toss a small bit of food in the refugium a couple times a week if you want to maximize the population.>>
The fixture that I have on the CPR is an 18W Jalli light.  I would like to purchase some type of light that I can pick up locally at a Home Depot or similar but want to make sure that I am purchasing something that will allow the fuge to continue to thrive as well as not have any safety issue with it resting on the fuge and being exposed to salt creep.
<<Mmm...Everything/anything would/will be affected by salt creep...eventually.  The LOA fixtures from Home Depot have proven quite durable in my experience if you take the time for periodic maintenance (a simple wipe-down with a damp cloth every couple months).>>
Also, is it OK to run the lights on the HOB during the daylight hours and then run the below 'fuge lights during the nighttime or are there any negatives to this.  Reason being is that I don't want the light from the HOB shining into the tank during the overnight hours?
<<Your plan sounds fine.>>
Thank you in advance for your response.
Andy
<<Welcome Andy...EricR>>

Marine algae
I have a 55 gallon reef tank set up for 4 years now and is pretty
stable.  I have added a refugium to my system but I can't seem to keep
algae there.  When I add Chaetomorpha, Gracilaria stuff? or Caulerpa it disintegrates within a week.
<Mmm, a few general questions come to mind re water quality, lighting...>
The refugium is about 8 gallons and I have a 9x2 (18 watt) pc AquaLife mini fixture that is about 6 " above the water.
I leave the light on for about 15-18 hours.
<Except for the Caulerpa, which should be illuminated continuously, I would have a steady, alternating (with the main tank) twelve hour (or so) light period here>
I am telling you about my lighting because that is what I think my problem is but before
I run out and get better lighting I wanted your opinion on anything else
I should be looking at.  I know my alkalinity is high and calcium is a bit low ,
<... this could be, likely is a problem here as well...>
all other tests come out better than good and I can tell you the results of a test or 2 if you maybe steer me in the right direction.
<Need real numbers, not subjective evaluations>
What would make algae just fall apart in a fishless stable environment, especially when this stuff is supposed to grow like crazy anywhere.
Thanks
Mark
<Many possibilities. Most are covered on WWM... Bob Fenner>

Re: Marine algae (for refugiums, lighting also)... tell me everything you know about aquariums in ten sentences... Not possible
Hi,
That wasn't very helpful, was there something that I left out in my
email?  I tried to give you my lighting specs and tried to ask you what
levels would you like to see that would cause problems in algae growth in my refugium.
<Mmm, too many "other variables" to be more specific... The intensity, duration, quality of light used here (in refugiums) is a function of the types/species of algae used, nutrients of different sorts presence, overall water chemistry and physics, flow-rate, circulation patterns, the use of other gear...>
Do you need levels like ammonia (do elevated levels of ammonia cause disintegration of Gracilaria?)
<Ah yes! A very good example.>
but my levels of ammonia are zero.  I don't thing high phosphates would cause the algae to wither away.
<Actually, soluble phosphate coupled with low or vacillating pH can/will do this>
So what I am asking is what levels would you thing would cause a problem that I am describing?
<... levels of what?>
You also mention that I should have my lights on 12 hours alternating, which would mean only 6 hours in my refugium?
<... If you would but read... invest your time... the long/short of this, I would have the hours overlap during the "dark phase" of your main system... Have the lighting on the refugium on when the main tank is off... the lighting on the refugium can be on simultaneously as well>
I leave it on when the aquarium is off and also some overlap (both lights being on) so at all
times there is some light on the water somewhere.  
<Bingo. Good>
Should the refugium light be on all the time?
<... only if you're culturing Caulerpaceans... and not other algae in addition>
Should there be more wattage and if there is less wattage does more time
on make up for the difference or if you don't have enough wattage that leaving it on all day wont help.
<Extending photoperiod can/will only do "so much" to make up for wanting intensity... like an extra hour or two per day for ten percent too little wattage>
Would low calcium levels cause this (I didn't think so)
<Yes... and alkalinity mis-matched just as importantly>
Anyway, what you can do is point me in a direction or let me know which
levels would cause this problem
<... perhaps a few general aquarium books... All this takes time, careful communication... I assure you>
Mark
<Bob Fenner>

Wattage for Narrow Deep Refugiums
Dear Crew,
I have a 75-gallon reef aquarium with a 29-gallon downstream refugium.
Currently, I am controlling nitrates with 20% weekly water changes and all
water quality parameters are excellent.  To reduce the frequency of water
changes, I am placing Chaetomorpha between my refugium baffles as an macroalgae filter.
The water volume between the baffles is only 5" wide x 12" long x 15" deep.
Over this relatively small 5"x12" surface area, I can place either a 13-watt
or 18-watt compact fluorescent fixture for reverse daylight photosynthesis
(RDP).  Which wattage will be better?  I am concerned that over lighting will
produce diatoms as it had in my main tank before I cut back my metal halide
lighting period. <Paul, the 18 watt would be my choice on a 15" deep refugium.  James (Salty Dog)>
Thanks very much. <You're welcome>
Regards,
Paul.

Remote Refugium Lighting  12/13/05
  To start, I commend you on the great website which has been an invaluable tool in setting up and maintaining my many aquariums. <Thank you for the kudos. It's certainly a labor of love!> I am a long time reader but this is my first question. I am planning on converting part of a twenty gallon DIY sump of a 50 gallon FOWLR system into a refugium where I intend to grow macro algae for food and filtration purposes. <Almost always an excellent addition.> I have been unable to find much information on what sort (Spectrum) <Full, perhaps spike at 6500k or 10000k> and power (Watts) <Depends on too many factors to make a blanket recommendation, including the shape and size of the refugium, depth of the water, species of algae...> of lighting would be necessary for the successful cultivation of said macro algae. Your response to my inquiry is much appreciated...... Sean
<This depends a lot on what species you want to cultivate. Caulerpa (illegal in California) and Chaetomorpha (a fine choice) do well under strong, full-spectrum fluorescent or compact-fluorescent lamps, which will also help keep temperatures under control in your cabinet.  Essentially use as much as you can comfortably afford and practically fit. Halimeda on the other hand seems to do much better under stronger lights, even metal halides. Have fun with the 'fuge! -Zo>

Re: Macro in Refugium, Going with Chaetomorpha - 10/23/05
Thanks for the feedback I found a great place that sells Chaetomorpha so I believe I'll try it out. 
<Awesome.> 
A question though is that one you would recommend to run 24/7 or a on/off? 
<With Chaeto its fine to have resting periods, so a reverse light cycle is preferred.> 
And is Mineral Mud still good to use with this form of macro?
<Substrate does not matter with this macro, it's a floating tumble weed of sorts. Does not use hold fasts.>
Thanks,
Nathan M
<Adam J.> 

Refugium Light Cycle  10/21/05
Hey guys,
<Hi Nathan.>
I just purchased a CPR hang on style refugium for my 30 gallon reef tank, and I was wondering what you'd recommend for a lighting cycle; I hear different things all the time, some say 24/7 and others say off when main display light is on and on when its off. <Depends on the algae you are growing some need a resting “night” time, in which case I would recommend having the lighting on a reverse (on when the display is off). Other algaes can be held in stasis (Caulerpa for instance) and thus the lighting can be left on for 24 hours a day.> Also what type of plant life would you recommend for me to find that would serve the best purpose, <I am a fan of Chaetomorpha, great at nutrient export and a good home for pods to “get busy” and populate.> and would having a refugium control algae enough to leave a UV sterilizer out of the picture? <Some people use UV’s some don’t, they destroy the good with the bad, on your tank size I would say its optional not really needed.>
Thanks
Nathan M
<You are welcome, anytime, Adam J.>

Refugium Questions 10/13/05
Hi once again, I have been looking up on a refugium, I was looking into the AquaFuge External Hang On Refugium, and I have a few questions. In my main tank there is 2 actinic blue and 2 actinic white fluorescents producing a total of about 6 watts per gallon on my 75 tank, since the refugium is hanging onto the back of the aquarium will it still need it's own lights, or will the lights on the main tank be enough (I know about the lighting the refugium at night thing but...$$$) 
<The light coming from your tank will be marginal for the refugium. Also, there is a lot of benefit from lighting the 'fuge while the tank lights are off. If you shop Wal-Mart or Home Depot type stores, you can find many choices of fairly inexpensive small compact fluorescent fixtures that will work well for a refugium.>
Also my tank has a wet dry 125 gallon capacity and a sea world systems protein skimmer, My tank has been up and running for 3 weeks, is it too late for a refugium? ( I always thought it was never too late for a refugium!!) Also once I got the refugium set up, would it be wise to remove the bio balls from my wet dry. 
<It is never too late for a refugium! As long as you have at least 1lb per gallon of live rock, you can certainly remove the bio-balls from your wet/dry (independent of adding the 'fuge).>
The hang on refugium states that it is 19 1/2 by 4 and 1/2 by 12 high (inches) how am I going to fit LR into that refugium, and if so, how much would you recommend. My intended use for the refugium is for all of its nutrients, pH, Nitrate, Nitrite, and Ammonia, the pods' would be fine too even though I don't plan on having a mandarin. I was looking into some assorted Caulerpa packs, but have since heard some conflicting stories about this macro, any suggestions on other types of good ol' macroalgae?
<Many dealers will sell "Live Rock Rubble", and often at a discount. These small pieces will fit easily into that space. Do keep in mind that rock is not mandatory in the 'fuge. As for macro choices, Caulerpa is not so much of a problem in FO tanks as it is in reefs where it's noxious chemical defenses can stunt coral growth. It can still become invasive in the display though. Chaetomorpha is an all around better choice, if not quite as fast growing. Macros are available for free or for trade at most local marine aquarium society meetings.>
Last question, I swear, since the refugium is a hang on the back, how could it be connected in any way to the main display, I don't exactly want a bunch of hoses in my main tank, do you know how these work? (sorry, I thought of another question) And other than the maintenance of cutting the macroalgae you put in there, are there any other maintenance issues involved with a refugium? 
<Connections will vary with the exact model, but ideally water should be pumped into the refugium and passively drain back into the tank to spare microcrustaceans a trip through the pump. That said, you may want to consider placing the fuge in/on your wet/dry where it and it's plumbing will be out of sight. Although this means a trip through a pump for the critters, this is a minor compromise. Unless you find that sediment and detritus is accumulating in the refugium, very little maintenance is required.>
P.S. I plan on having a 6 or 7 " sand bed of Marine BioSediment, good brand? Thanks a million, Clare 
<I don't know anything about this brand, but any fine grained (sugar fine) calcium based substrate will work well. Best Regards. AdamC.> 

Refugium Lighting Selection  9/5/05
Hi crew,
<Scott F. your Crew member tonight!>
I built a refugium similar to the picture
diagram on this site. What amount of lighting would
work for this set up. Thanks.
<Personally, I favor power compact lighting for most refugium/sump lighting needs. There are numerous systems and retrofits available; choose one that is appropriate for the animals that you intend to keep in your refugium, and you should be just fine! Regards, Scott F.>

Re: Unidentified Green "Grass" Macroalgae, lighting 8/14/05
Hello,
<Hi again>
Thanks for the help identifying the Chlorodesmis and the link to the
page about the other green macroalgae.  It was very informative.  BTW,
do you think that it is advisable to run the light (32 w PC) in the
refugium 24 hours a day on the Chlorodesmis or would it benefit from a
"dark period?"  Many thanks!
Best,
Christopher
<Almost all other life other than Caulerpa spp. should be afforded a "dark period"... I would run the light during all the hours when your main systems lighting is off, overlapping a few hours with the sump/refugium. Bob Fenner>

CPR refugium light 07/01/05
Bob [or assisting minion]:
<Mmm, just the common progenitor minion>
I saw the post from the fellow who was asking about lighting for a CPR refugium.
The company offers lights for each size of fuge, and they are available by order through any CPR dealer [which can be identified on their website].  There are, in fact, two distinctly different mounting feet available--one set is arched, and fits on the width end of the fuge, while the other is comprised of acrylic brackets that go across the fuge top. One's choice can be dictated by the dimensions of the canopy, wall clearance, and so on.  I have successfully ordered one for my wife's 38gal, which has the medium sized unit hanging on the back, and am waiting for another one for mine.  The price is generally in the seventy dollar area.  Nice housing, nice fixture, internal ballast--overall, a very satisfactory product.
Best regards,
Rick
<Thank you for this Rick... The owner of CPR, Suk Kim, is a very thorough, conscientious manufacturer... and a friend. He would not leave off having all the components needed for his products. Bob Fenner>

Refugium Lighting and Cabo Dive Operators
Hello Crew,
<Alan>
I have an AMiracle sump with 6 gallons of water that I have turned into a pseudo refugium. It contains 8 lbs of live rock rubble and I added a nice clump of Chaetomorpha yesterday and some of those mesh like plastic kitchen scrubbies (found at Wal-Mart today, finally). No sand bed or mud. The intent of the refugium is to keep a gaggle of pods that I have purchased from Adelaide and the Reed Mariculture folks (very nice people to do business with). My question is how much light is needed to keep the Chaeto alive and well. 
<Sounds great>
I tried to find the "Lights of America" 13 watt CF's often discussed on WWM at Home Depot and Lowe's and they have both stopped carrying the fixture (but they still sell the bulbs).
<Rats! Maybe they can be ordered over the net? As I recall L.O.A. has a site... maybe they could tell you where to get them?>
At least that's the case here in Denver. What I did find was a clip light and a Sylvania soft white mini 60 watt compact fluorescent that has a color temperature of 3000K. Would this work or should I find a higher watt CF or higher Kelvin?
<Higher...>
Can you recommend a good dive operator you might have experience with in Cabo San Lucas to dive with. I'll be there in June.
<Ah, I've used the four listed here: http://www.loscabosguide.com/diving/diving.htm  As is typical in the trade, many of the actual dive-masters, crew move "freely" amongst these outfits... they are all worthwhile>
Thanks for all of your Brilliance. Alan
<! Thank you. Bob Fenner>

No Lighting for Live Rock in Refugia?
Dear Sir or Madam:
<"Will you read my book...">
I am acquiring a large amount of live rock for a new 75-gallon reef aquarium with a 29-gallon refugium in the cabinet underneath. The live rock is coming from another metal-halide illuminated aquarium populated with corals and anemones. I plan to "cycle" the live rock for a period before introducing new organisms.
<Okay>
I plan to divide the live rock into two categories. The live rocks with anemones and corals will be placed in my main tank to enjoy 300-watts of DE-HQI-MH lighting. The main tank will also have a deep sand bed of oolitic aragonite that I will "seed" with SeaChem Stability. The live rocks that have no anemones and corals will be sharing a bare-bottom refugium with a hang-on-tank skimmer, a cooling fan, a heater and an external pump but no lighting at all.
<Mmm>
I have two questions:
(1) Do I need to provide lighting for the live rock in the refugium if it has no corals or anemones? 
<I would... many benefits>
(2) Will the live rock and deep sand bed be sufficient for nitrogen export without the need for macro-algae?
<Possibly... but I would culture this here... Much written, archived on these, and related issues on http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/index.htm Bob Fenner> 

Lighting/Refugium
Dear Sir or Madam:
I am acquiring a large amount of live rock for a new 75-gallon reef aquarium with a 29-gallon refugium in the cabinet underneath. The live rock is coming from another metal-halide illuminated aquarium populated with corals and anemones. I plan to "cycle" the live rock for a period before introducing new organisms.
I plan to divide the live rock into two categories. The live rocks with anemones and corals will be placed in my main tank to enjoy 300-watts of DE-HQI-MH lighting. The main tank will also have a deep sand bed of oolitic aragonite that I will "seed" with SeaChem Stability. The live rocks that have no anemones and corals will be sharing a bare-bottom refugium with a hang-on-tank skimmer, a cooling fan, a heater and an external pump but no lighting at all.
I have two questions:
(1) Do I need to provide lighting for the live rock in the refugium if it has no corals or anemones? 
<If there is coralline on the rock, you will need lighting if you want to keep it.>
(2) Will the live rock and deep sand bed be sufficient for nitrogen export without the need for macro-algae? 
<All depends on stocking levels and weekly maintenance. I prefer macro in a refugium, just adds to water quality.>

My refugium
Hi again. I'm so discouraged. I have been reading and reading and now I've come across a statement made that if lighting is more than 3 inches above water level it's no good!
<What? No>
I just bought a lot of additional lighting for my 90 gallon to get it up to speed for my desire of some hardy corals plus a BTA and now I feel like I've wasted my time and money. We mounted it inside the canopy but I'm sure it's a little more than 3 inches from the water.  Now what? If we put it any closer, won't it melt my acrylic top? O why must this be overwhelming? Feeling down, Renee'
<Don't be overwhelmed... take all just in small bits at a time... ask for the rationale for what seems incongruent... the light can be very far away (many Japanese people mount their tank lights up near the ceiling!)... a few inches of transmission through the air is not of consequence... Think about el sol... Bob Fenner> 

Re: My refugium
O thank you Mr. Fenner. And for your quick reply. I'm just so caught up in doing everything right and had a bad experience of a LFS man really ripping me off on some products and also giving me some bad information to start with. Now I'm having to re-do some things. I have paid double on some items he sold me. (For example, he charged me $500 for the Tidepool wet/dry and I saw it much later in the Foster and Smith catalog for 174.99). I've honestly been burned. I cannot say how much I appreciate your web site. I am learning so much. Every now and then things will catch my eye like the 3 inch rule for lighting and will take the steam out of my excitement with this hobby. There are many opinions and different experiences by so many......it can be overwhelming at times.
<Actually... if for no other reason than "this is reality, and it won't change", I've developed an attitude of this obvious mish mash of ideas, opinions and larceny being "fun"... to decipher, ferret out...>
If I may ask one more thing, my dear husband (so dear because he has been kind to my love for this hobby) and I are thinking through this refugium. We think we have it all figured out but one item. The 10 gallon refugium will get its water pumped from the sump under cabinet. The 10G will sit on a table next to mother tank, higher than the sump. We will drill a hole in side of 10G with a bulkhead fitting, elbow, and PVC pipe that goes to top level of water in 10G. This will overflow back to the sump. The big question: what size pump to take water to the 10G and what size bulkhead and tubing, PVC to match?  In other words, we can't have it pumping into the 10G faster than it can overflow out. How do you figure that out?
<Mmm, there are "rules of thumb" per the size of through-puts, if there is any "horizontal" plumbing, difference in water levels... but a few times the volume of the transit volume sump (the ten) is about right... likely 10-20 times the rated flow of the pump...>
That¹s the last thing we can't quite figure out. Please help. And again, thank you for your encouragement. 
Renee'
<Keep accumulating those data points Renee... you'll do fine. Bob Fenner>

Lighting For Refugium
Hi James (Salty Dog),
<Hello>
I don't know if you are always the one to get my e-mails (seems to be).
<It's the luck of the draw.> 
About this refugium.....what lighting do I get? I have searched and can't seem to find the lighting that I need for a 10 gallon. All fixtures and bulbs seem to be for a 24 in. My aquarium length is 20 inches. I know I need a good intensity for the rock and macroalgae that I will put in there. Please, can you suggest something? This will be out and seen by people. I need a nice fixture. Please help me.  Thanks. Renee' 
<Help is on the way Renee'. Drs. Foster & Smith has one for a 10 gallon tank (20"). They have your choice of a single PC fixture (half 10K, half 460 actinic). They also make a dual light system that size, but I don't think you will need that just for growing macro. They are selling the single fixture for $55.00. They are very nice, no plastic, a nice black aluminum fixture. I have the double on my 29 mini reef and really was impressed with the build quality. It is listed as "Satellite Compact Fluorescent Fixtures". They are actually made by a company called Current. James (Salty Dog)> 

Refugium Lighting
Hi guys awesome site. Quick question I currently have a 400litre tank with 2 x 150w MH and am planning to add a 100 litre refugium, unfortunately money is a bit tight at the moment, what lighting do you recommend for the refugium can I use lights from a hardware store as I don't have the money to purchase another 150w MH ?
<Simple fluorescents of good CRI, Kelvin rating... this is posted on WWM. Bob Fenner>

Refugium Lighting Scheme
Hi everyone at WWM.
<Hi there! Scott F. here today!>
A lighting question here. What do you suggest I light my refugium with? Either one of those 13 inch lights or the ones that you can clip on the sides? Since I know that your suppose to keep them on at different times of the day, I would not want to ruin the moon light effect it has at night with bright lights. Any suggestions?
<I like PC's...You can use one of thee many lower wattage, highly efficient systems, like the fine Coralife units.>
Plus how many Emerald Crabs can I keep in a 55g reef?
<Hmm...really depends. I would not keep too many in there. Maybe one or two. Potentially aggressive towards each other, particularly in smaller quarters.>
Thanks for your time. Teddy
<A pleasure! Regards, Scott F.>

Lamp colors and Refugiums 11/9/04
I have a couple quick questions.  I'd like to know what the difference is between the 7100k lights and the actinics.  
<actinics are a single wavelength (around 420 nm for some) and 7100K lamps are a full(er) spectrum akin to daylight. This latter lamp being much better for PAR for corals>
I know the actinics are specific to 420nm which I've heard doesn't do much for photosynthesis, however, great for aesthetics.  
<Doh!... I should read ahead. Yes>
The 7100k lights I've seen out on the market look pretty similar in color to the actinics, but I've been told they're much better for photosynthesis.  
<correct... do look at PAR values in charts and analysis... articles by Sanjay Yoshi for example>
Another confusing thing is that a 6700k looks yellow and a 10k looks more white but a 7100k which is in the middle of the two looks blue??  
<different brands and even interpretations by individuals (we all do not see color the same)>
I just would like to know what the deal is with all this.
One thing that I've been looking forward to is the next book in the natural aquarium series.  Could you tell me what the schedule of releases are?  
<we are getting into layout and pre-press now... hoping for the first of a 2 part-volume on Reef Fishes for early next year>
I've learned a ton from just the invert book.  It's inspired me to get a refugium.  I don't have one yet but it's in the works.  BTW have you had any experience with the ecosystems refugium method?
<yes, and many refugium styles>
Is it really that much better than a standard refugium growing less dangerous algae.  
<of its many benefits I would not count that as one. Water flow is more of a factor here>
I've also become a firm believer in the quarantine tank as well.
<this is a critical lesson... it will take you far>
I tell all my customers to quarantine quarantine quarantine!  
<all will succeed better for it. Thank you for this effort!>
Well this has turned out to be quite long so I'm  going to cut this short.  You guys are great thanks a mill. Chris aka fishtank
<best regards, Anthony>

Refugium: To Light or Not To Light?
First a sincere thank you for the great resource your website provides. 
<Our pleasure! We have a great bunch of people here who are thrilled to bring it to you every day!>
After reading through your website, I've decided to remove the bio-balls from my 75 gallon Tenecor Simplicity Plus system (the Simplicity Plus has the filtration in the back of the aquarium). This was precipitated due to a rise in Nitrates (approx. 50 ppm) despite the fact that the tank is relatively new (2 months) and has a protein skimmer (AquaC Remora - collection cup fills up with about a quarter inch of dark green water each day - does that sound like enough?)
<Yes- an excellent skimmer for this sized tank, IMO>
and a relatively light bio-load - Blue Damsel, two small clowns and a Yellow Tang - along with 80 pounds of live rock and live sand (no DSB yet, although I'm thinking about it).
<Removing the bioballs and contemplating a DSB are excellent moves for your tank. Enhanced nutrient export provided by the DSB will really help improve overall water quality.>
My plan is to take out the bio-balls (after reading your site I plan to remove them over a period of 2 weeks) and replace with live rock rubble. I would rather not, however, have to add a separate light for the refugium portion of the tank. I've seen some references on your site to a "Cryptic" refugium that requires no light so that's the route I'd like to take. 
<Yep. You'll get different types of organisms in such a "cryptic zone". Perhaps sponges and other life forms that will really benefit your tank through biodiversity, natural nutrient export, and production of food sources in the form of planktonic life.>
So I guess my primary question is how do I create a cryptic refugium? Is it as simple as replacing the bioballs with smaller live rock pieces over a couple of weeks or is it more involved?
<It really is THAT simple...You could also stock the "zone" with carefully selected or "harvested" (from your tank) sponges, tunicates, and other creatures that like this environment>
Is a cryptic refugium as effective as a conventional lit refugium? If not, do you recommend that I bite the bullet and figure out a way to light the back part of the tank so the refugium is more effective?
<Both types of refugia can perform similar functions. It's really a matter of what you want to keep in there and whether or not you choose to light the refugium. In the end, practicality may dictate that which route you take...You can find some pretty interesting stuff on cryptic zones and the animals that reside in them in the writings of Steve Tyree, who has done a fair amount of research on this topic.>
Thanks so much for your time and assistance. Kurt
<My pleasure, Kurt! Best of luck with your new 'fuge!>

24 hour lighting in refugium with fish? 5/31/04
Adam, Thanks for the advice.  I moved my lawnmower blenny to the refugium
but I did forget to mention that I have only a 20 gallon refugium.  This
should be large enough for a blenny though - correct?
<It should be fine for a while, and this shouldn't be a permanent
arrangement.>
This does bring-up one more question:   I was told I would not need to be
overly concerned with the Caulerpa "going sexual" if I keep the refugium on
a 24 hour light cycle, so this is how I currently have the lights set.
<I have heard this too, but I am not sure how reliable it is.  The best way
to avoid these problems with Caulerpa is to not use Caulerpa.  Chaetomorpha
is very fast growing and has many advantages over Caulerpa, including the
fact that it does not "go sexual".>
I think I read that most fish require a light / dark cycle though.  Is this
the case and, if so, what is the minimum number of dark hours the blenny
needs?  Do you recommend providing some dark period for the blenny? --Greg
<Yes. This is probably a good idea.  Keep the Caulerpa well pruned and you
should avoid any problems.  Alternatively, eliminate it in favor of other
less problematic algae  Either option should be fine.  Best regards.  Adam>

24 hour lighting in refugium with fish? 5/31/04
Adam, Thanks for the advice.  I moved my lawnmower blenny to the refugium but I did forget to mention that I have only a 20 gallon refugium.  This should be large enough for a blenny though - correct?
<It should be fine for a while, and this shouldn't be a permanent arrangement.>
This does bring-up one more question:   I was told I would not need to be overly concerned with the Caulerpa "going sexual" if I keep the refugium on a 24 hour light cycle, so this is how I currently have the lights set.
<I have heard this too, but I am not sure how reliable it is.  The best way to avoid these problems with Caulerpa is to not use Caulerpa.  Chaetomorpha is very fast growing and has many advantages over Caulerpa, including the fact that it does not "go sexual".>
I think I read that most fish require a light / dark cycle though.  Is this the case and, if so, what is the minimum number of dark hours the blenny needs?  Do you recommend providing some dark period for the blenny? --Greg
<Yes. This is probably a good idea.  Keep the Caulerpa well pruned and you should avoid any problems.  Alternatively, eliminate it in favor of other less problematic algae  Either option should be fine.  Best regards.  Adam>

Refugium size 6/13/04
I have a 300 gallon reef tank with a 100 gallon sump. I just purchased a 20 gallon tank and stand for my new refugium. I have 1 65watt compact/actinic lighting
<you will have trouble in the long run keeping some of the better macroalgae under light this dim and blue. Little or no actinic is needed here... macros tend to favor warm/daylight (5,000-6,500 K)... and 3 watts per gallon is well on the low end of recommendations for growing plants and algae. Do consider an upgrade if you can... else use a more forgiving macro like Chaetomorpha (one of the best)>
and the 6 pack macro algae from indo pacific sea farms (great products) inside with a 5" live sandbed.
<great company (IPSF) and great sand bed depth... but the mix of more than one macro species in such a small refugium will not work in time my friend. One will outcompete the other and you may be creating a bit of trouble in the meantime as they chemically duke it out with each other>
I am planning to operate lights offset to main tanks lights as indo pacific recommends.
<agreed>
Is this enough to keep nitrates in check and PH stable
<definitely a help with pH I suspect... but not a prayer of this sized refugium being the primary nitrate reducing mechanism for such a large display>
or what do you recommend to tweak it better with what I have.
<nothing much to change with the refugium other than brighter light, a single species of macro (Chaetomorpha) and probably better water flow (200-300 GPH minimum in this refugium) to optimize its function as a vegetable filter for nutrient export. For nitrate control, you could add to the system (next to the sump below perhaps?) a five gallon bucket filled nearly to the top with fine sand, drilled above the sand level with an overflow and fed by a slow stream of water from the sump/tank. This is one of the easiest, cheapest and least expensive denitrifying filters :) >
The room I have is the reason why I can not go over 20 gallons.
<understood... no worries, we make do with what we can. You may just need to finesse other aspects of the tank to compromise... lighter fish load, careful feeding, more aggressive skimming and water changes, etc. if you see nitrates increasing. Anthony>

In response to 6/13/04 refugium? 6/14/04
I have a 300 gallon reef tank with a 100 gallon sump, and after reading your response to my question on my new refugium I made some changes. First now because of room I went from a 20 hex to a 35 hex. And lighting I am going from a 65 compact to a 175 Hamilton 10k halide with a fan. and I have the overflow going to my sump and a Rio 1700 with a dial to tone it down. And I added more live sand. Well what do you guys think? I really value your opinion. Thanks,Tanker240
<the upgrades will serve you well. The extra volume int he refugium certainly increase your potential for mass (algae) for nutrient export as well as surface area to cultivate microcrustaceans. The halide is an excellent long term investment and good value (light produce per watt consumed). It doesn't approach the 5 watts per gallon necessary for some fo the more demanding macroalgae (like Gracilaria) but will be just fine for equally desirous or better types like Chaetomorpha. All good :) Anthony>

Lighting the 'Fuge
>Hi guys,
>>Hello.
>Have a question on lighting for growing macroalgae in my sump (refugium?).  
>>A sump should need no lighting.. eh?
>My sump is a 20 gal. aquarium. Next to the AquaC EV skimmer, PVC in line, and inlet return line there is very little room leftover. After reading many times on your website about the benefits of having liverock/Caulerpas in your sump, I'd like to try it.
>>Sounds good!  Do check out places like Inland Aquatics for other options in macroalgae, too.
>I saw a light that's 4 1/2 x 9  called a "mini might double'. It has a 9 watt 6700k and a 9 watt actinic described as 9 watt super PL lamps. Do you know if this fixture if left on all day would be strong enough to grow Caulerpa in my sump?
>>Hhhmm.. the important thing here is not only color temperature (the 6700K indicates color temperature in relation to sunlight, IIRC it's about 5,000K (Kelvin)), but also the lumens, or light intensity.  My own guess is that it would be sufficient if not placed too far away from the water's surface.  I managed just fine having Caulerpa inhabiting 1/3 of my reef tank, and that was at one end, under normal output fluorescents.  
>By the way the place where I would have to put this would be fairly turbulent. Thanks again for your input/advice/expertise. Kevin
>>Turbulence shouldn't cause any problems other than if a lot of water might be splashed onto the fixture itself, in which case you must take precautions to protect it, and be sure to use a GFCI (ground fault circuit interrupter).  Marina

Refugium (macroalgae) Lighting
This question is directed at Bob Fenner (unless someone else would like to
answer)...when you spoke November 21, 2003 at the Sacramento MARS meeting
you included some information regarding macroalgae.  Maybe I misunderstood
you, but did you say that Caulerpa was the only macro that could be lit
24x7?
<Yes, did mention. As far as I know the Caulerpaceans are the only continuous photosynthetically active macroalgae>
I mentioned this to a friend of mine that has Ulva & Gracilaria lit
24x7 in a refugium.  I looked through the information in your new book and
it did mention that Caulerpa could be lit 24x7, but there wasn't anything
saying that the others couldn't be lit 24x7.  Can you please elaborate why
Ulva and  Gracilaria shouldn't be lit 24x7.
<I would separate the area where the algae are into two compartments and only illuminate either side 12 hours a day>
  I know you mentioned it
during your presentation, but I think our table was on the 3rd pitcher by
the time you did so.
<Hee hee! Most photosynthates require or at least do best with a "dark phase" period... and so would grant these other algae such... either by turning their light off some hours during the "day" of the main tank... OR dividing and lighting only part daily. Bob Fenner>
Thanks
Marc Daniels

Lighting Chaetomorpha (1/22/04)
   Hi, and thank you for your good work !! <A pleasure>
   I'm searching for a couple of days on the web what is the amount of light (in lumens) the Chaetomorpha algae do need and how many hours/days at most can we light it?  <Don't know how many lumens. Standard output or PC fluorescent lights should be fine. I light mine with 46W of PC. W would not recommend more than 12 hours per day.> Is it the best choice of algae to put in a refugium with a deep sand bed  and to do nutrient export ?! <A matter of opinion. There are pros/cons to all algae. Read the FAQs on Chaeto & Caulerpa and choose which is best for you.> Thank you ! Steve Timmons  <Hope this helps. Steve Allen>   

Reverse daylight question 1/28/04
Hi guys, Thanks again for all the useful info.
<Always a pleasure!  Adam here today, BTW.>
My question is on my refugium I am setting up.  I am setting up a display refugium that will sit next to my 75 gallon display.  Water is being fed from my sump to the refuge and back to the sump.  I have had a 20 gallon high drilled with 3 holes and bulkheads on the back and on the top.  2 - 1" for overflow and 1 - 1" for the return.  I have 60 lbs of Natures Ocean "Live" sand for my substrate.  I did not buy this overpriced stuff for any other reason than this refuge is being hooked up to a tank that has been running fine for years and I did not want to have a sand storm for days waiting for things to settle.  So I spent the money for "clean" sand.
<Sounds like a nice set up.>
Anyway my main question today is on my lighting.  I want to have macros and some LR in the refuge for nutrient export and food for my tank.  I have read allot about the benefits of running my lights on a reverse cycle from the main display.  I will have a PC unit I believe it is called Moonlight lamp.  It has 2 - 65 watt PC bulbs and two Moonlight bulbs.  Since this tank is in my office at work and located next to my display with it's 2 - 175 watt 14K MH and 2 - 40 watt 50/50 actinic / daylights it will never be dark during the day in the refuge.  Does this overflow of light cause problems that I should be concerned about.  I could possibly create a dark "boundary" between the two tanks however, room light etc will still be an issue.  Obviously, I may be worrying to much about this but in my quest to not have problems I figured I would ask the pro's... Thanks, Dave Thanks and have a great day!
<I don't think you will have any problems.  I would recommend Chaetomorpha over Caulerpa for a wide variety of reasons including the fact that it doesn't crash, it makes better habitat, and it doesn't produce as many toxic metabolites.  If you are concerned, paints designed for glass are available.  Painting all sides but the front viewing panel will help keep out extraneous light.  Best Regards.  Adam>

-Refugium lighting-
Hi, What would you recommend (lighting (what wattage/type?) for my 6" DSB with some Chaetomorpha.  The sump is 20"Lx16"Wx18"H and situated underneath the display tank. <A few 18" NO lamps would get the stuff to grow, but you'd experience much faster growth under more lighting (i.e. PowerCompacts).> Would you recommend putting some of the Chaeto in the display tank or not. <Well, since it doesn't attach to anything, you'll have to wedge it in some crevices and deal with it when it starts blowing around the tank.> I currently have a FOWLR and some mushrooms, green star polyps, and a candy cane coral. <Not a FOWLR anymore!> The lighting for my 60 gallon is 4x65 PC's <I hope this helps, -Kevin>
Thanks again.

Unlit Refugium 2/14/04
Hello WWM Crew,
<howdy>
I am a week or so away from plumbing my new set-up which will include a 50 Rubbermaid stock tank plumbed upstream and gravity fed back to the display (120g).  The plan for this tank was for it to be used as an unlit refugium with LR and a shallow, med - large grain aragonite substrate.  Predator free, this tank's purpose would be to provide a safe haven for pods to live and breed while constantly supplying plankton to the display tank.  
<agreed with all of the above... although the addition of a dense matrix like scrubby pads, coarse polyester fiber pads/foam blocks... or living Chaetomorpha algae with light would provide a much better realm for the cultivation of microcrustaceans than  shallow gravel and LR>
Simply put, I want a mandarin fish someday and I want this refugium to supply it's food.  
<yes, do consider the above>
Is an unlit refugium the right environment for such plankton?  
<correct>
Would I be better off lighting the refuge?  
<nope... not necessarily. Although you need to delve/research deeper here... mandarins eat copepods and not large microcrustaceans like amphipods and mysids. Your coarse media is geared to growing the latter. For copepods, you need a supply of fine sand (deep at 5=") and source of phytoplankton>
I don't intend to use this for nutrient control and don't want to constantly prune algae.  
<understood and agreed>
By the way, does 300gph turn-over (through the refuge) sound good?
<not even remotely enough... you will struggle with algae problems in this and any tank with such low flow. 10X is a fair minimum for refugia. Towards 20X for display tanks for best results (even higher for SPS tanks)>
Thanks in Advance Mike
<kindly, Anthony>

Lighting Cycle for Algae and Heat Issues?
>Hello,
>>Hello.
>I started my refugium with Caulerpa around 2 months ago and during that time I had my two 65-watt power compacts on 24/7.
>>No need to light 24/7, my friend.
>About 3 weeks ago I removed the Caulerpa and replaced it with a good sized piece of Chaeto using the same amount of lighting.
>>Amount AND duration?  Again, no need.
>During this time the Chaeto is growing like crazy which is a good thing and my nitrates have been a constant 0.
>>Low nitrate readings are indeed a good thing.
>The bad thing is my water temperature is varying a couple of degrees throughout the day due to the heating from the power compacts.
>>Not really, a couple of degrees is certainly tolerable.  I will ask you one thing, and it's the most important thing: do any inhabitants in the display show ANY negative reaction(s) to the slight change in temperature?  Many folks get so caught up in monitoring parameters that they forget to simply use their own powers of observation, which are often much better than they realize.  
>My question is do I still need to have the lights on 24/7 for the Chaeto?
>>Not for either.
>If not what would be a good cycle to use? I have heard that a good scenario is to have the refugium lights on opposite of the main tanks.
>>Only if you're having big pH shift issues is that necessary.  With my own first system I devoted a full 1/3 of it to Caulerpa, which meant that it was lit when the corals were lit.  I had NO problems whatsoever.
>If this is the case should I gradually switch to that timeframe or will an immediate effect
not cause a problem.
>>I don't think you'll cause the algae any great stress should you decide to go this alternating cycle, it's not got a nervous system with which to react to such changes.  Plus, if you think about it, many of the animals we buy come quite literally from the other side of the world.  The time zone is quite different, and after a period of adjustment, they can fare quite well.  This would be even more true of algae.
>My concerns are if I turn the lighting time down I will get nuisance algae growth in the refugium.
>>With no excess nutrients you shouldn't.  Nitrate would not be the only issue, of course, but this is part and parcel of WHY you are growing the macros, isn't it?  ;)
>Thanks, Tom
>>You're welcome.  Marina

Refugium lighting
One quick follow up to the 13 watts PC-  Am I correct in saying it will be sufficient to grow Chaetomorpha & Gracilaria a refugium of these dimensions? Or do I need to step the light up like 27 watts?
Gracilaria
<these macros (like most) are shallow water species and require as much light (watts/gal) as full reef displays. You should aspire to provide at least 5 watts per gallon in this case to keep them successfully. Anthony>

Lighting Vegetable filters (planted refugiums) 10/18/03
One last question regarding lighting in my downstream refugium in which I am keeping Chaetomorpha & Gracilaria only. Can the lighting be a combo of actinic and 6500k or am I better off with just 100%-6500k day lights? Thanks Ron
<most marine algae will fare best with heavy daylight illumination at 5,000-7,500 K. Best regards, Anthony>

Refugium Lighting Cycle
Hello all.
My question concerns refugium lighting.  I see that the usual refugium lighting configurations are for 24/7 or reverse.  Would it be detrimental to light a refugium during the same photoperiod as the tank (i.e., noon to midnight).  My tank currently resides in my bedroom and having the light on all night long will wreak havoc on my already too-short good night's sleep.
<Can't you pull the sheets over your head, or sleep on the couch?  Just kiddin, keeping the fuge on the same lighting cycle as the tank will be just fine.  The reverse lighting helps to keep the pH from swinging at night time.  Depending upon what you put in your refugium, and what you expect our of your refugium, the same light cycle as your tank will be fine.  I recommend Chaetomorpha as a good macro algae for your fuge.  Best of luck, now get some sleep. Gage<-_->
Thanks in advance.
Annette :)

- Starting with the Refugium -
Hi crew, want to thank all of you for your time and patience. My question is this, I will be setting up a 135 gallon reef tank over summer, I will have a 30 gallon sump with mud and Chaetomorpha, and a 30 gallon refugium to raise little critters like amphipods and copepods. Until I get my tank going, I would like to use my refugium as a grow tank. I would like to put in a 3'' sand bed, live sand, live rock and a starter pack of amphipods and copepods. I know I need a heater, would 2 or 3 watts per gallon do? <I'd like to see something a little stronger - about 250 watts for this tank. If you size the heater smaller and it ends up being 'on' most of the time, it stands a higher chance of failure.> Since there will be no plants, do I need a light? <I think you should have some - promote growth of other useful fauna on the live rock.> I saw you can get a triple flow corner filter that runs on an air pump, would I need any more flow then that? <Hmm... hard to say. Typically flows generated by air-lift and the like are very weak. A small powerhead in addition to that filter would probably work very well.> Thank you so much Charlie
<Cheers, J -- >

Refugium II 11/11/03
Thanks Jason for your reply. I forgot to ask you
about the lighting, What would you recommend?   Thanks so much, Charlie
<I see that Jason did answer your lighting question in his last reply: 250 watts over this 30 gallon refugium. I'm inclined to agree. 5 watts per gallon is a fair minimum... and closer to 8 watts per gallon for deeper refugia (over 12-16") and in those which you hope to cultivate vigorous algae for nutrient export (as is the case here with Chaetomorpha or Gracilaria). I would also add that your 3" DSB is a start with a low minimum and really should begin with closer to 5-6" IMO or you will find that you need to add more sand within mere months from dissolution. Best regards, Anthony>

Grow tank
Good Morning every one!--Newbie here. My 135 gallon reef tank wont be ready for a couple of months, In the mean time I have a 30 gallon tank just setting empty, I would like to use it as a grow tank ,slash refugium. I thought about putting in some live sand, Chaetomorpha, and a live rock or two. So I can add this to my 135 gallon tank when I start it up in a couple of months. How does this sound .I was goring to use a cheap whisper sponge type filter I had laying around, for lights a pair of 6,500k,and a small heater. Hoping to have a real smorgasbord of little critters to add to my main tank ,later on. Any suggestions would be really really be appreciated.
< sounds good do water changes and check water Mike H>
Thank you so much, Charlie

Refugium lighting
I need a cheap fuge light. I saw some power compacts - the ones that screw into incandescent sockets and look like a coil/springs.  They use 25w to output 100w at over 1600 lumens and a color temp of 6200k. There was no CRI or spectrum information on their website. If I used one of these on a clamp on reflector (the ones that look like bowls with hole in middle) and clamped onto fuge, would I be able to grow macros? I have heard some allege on Reef Central that they have success growing macros with similar type incandescent socket power compacts. On one of the lighting articles I read on this site, there was a statement that some "old timers" swear by incandescent. So what do you think? Thanks for the time.
<There is a good chance that these will work for you, algae does prefer the warmer end of the spectrum.  For the price I would definitely give it a shot before purchasing a more expensive lighting setup.  -Gage>

Lighting over Chaetomorpha 7/21/03
Dear Anthony,
<cheers, Howard>
After reading Reef Invertebrates, I feel that I should replace the refugium lighting.
<Okey-dokey>
What is the ideal lighting system over a 30 gallon refugium with the purpose of cultivating Chaetomorpha along with copepods and amphipods?  
<a single 100 or 150 watt double ended HQI lamp (say 10K) would rank very high in my book. Do use a parabolic reflector if possible. Seek 4-5 watts per gallon here at any rate>
There are so incredibly many options, I would appreciate your personal opinion regarding spectrum, watts, and cycle of the appropriate pendulum metal halide light including your favorite brand. German?
<for MH in general... I like Iwasakis, Aqualines and Ushios. Not inclined to take most others for free <G>. Radiums are also very good... but the 20Ks are scary blue (too much so for shallow water algae and some corals). and 8-12 hour photoperiod will be fine>
Many thanks, Howard in Wisconsin
<best regards, Anthony>

MH Lighting on Refugium 7/30/03
Dear Anthony,
<cheers, my friend>
Thanks for your response regarding MH lighting for my refugium. I have not been able to find a 100 watt system with a parabolic reflector and either of the double ended bulb brand names you suggest. I would appreciate your opinion on a system I have found at a reasonable price.
<I was thinking more along the lines of a DIY canopy... but if you prefer a finished product, we'll find something..>
It is a Sun System Blue Wave 150 watt, 10,000 K, double ended Ushio bulb in a sealed "box" (rectangular, not parabolic) with remote ballast. $395.
<a fine choice... and do consider modifying it yourself with a better reflector if the stock one seems mediocre>
I am happy to go with 150 instead of 100 watts.
<agreed>
I just can't find a unit with either of the bulbs that you like and a parabolic fixture.
<no worries>
Any vendor suggestion would be useful.
<again... it was a DIY assumption. My bad :) >
As always, my appreciation,
<and my kind regards>
Howard in Wisconsin
<yes... be seeing you and piles of cheese at the Wisconsin reef club 3rd week of September as I recall>

Refugium Lighting - 8/21/03
I just finished my new sump/refugium. The dedicated fuge area is @6.5 gallons. Would a 13watt PC with mirrored reflector be enough light, or do I need to double it?
<almost certainly double... near 5 watts per gallon>
Originally I was going to culture hacksaw Caulerpa and Codium, <cool on the latter, caution on the former> but after reading the new Reef Inverts. book , I will probably switch to Chaetomorpha, or Gracilaria.
<much safer choices... also both edible for your fishes to recycle nutrients unlike the Caulerpa and Codium (noxious)>
Thanks again for a great book guys!
<much appreciated :) >
Next time get the publisher to use a hard cover.
<alas... it was too expensive to produce on the first run... very few aquarists actually buy books and even fewer are willing to pay for hardcover. We have hopes though of producing them regardless after the 3rd volume is complete - as a box set>
This is a reference book that is going to get lots of use.
<ahhh... very redeeming to hear. Thanks again, mate>
Regards, Ken
<Anthony>

Refugium lighting 3/5/03
Waz up again Anthony,
<not much G-money>
I have a 90 gal. reef, and I just purchased a 20 gall. long acrylic tank to make into a refugium.  Its used so it has bulk heads drilled already, and i plan to put it above the 90 and gravity feed it back like you recommend.
<excellent>
Its dimensions are 36" x 12x12 , of course i will need to glue some baffles in there but what height would you make these baffles??
<I don't see why any baffles are needed at all. Enjoy a full sized refugium my friend. Just use a high water over flow (drilled holes)>
I will put in a 5" aragonite sandbed and couple pieces of live rock with lots of macro on it that I've been holding in my main display.  Also what light fixture do you recommend and how many watts to insure the survival and growth of the macro algae and plankton??  I know you'll steer me right , thanks bud
<the light you need depends on the species of macro you keep. Most need very bright light hailing from shallow water. Somewhere around 5 watts per gallon would be a minimum IMO for a vegetable filter/refugium. Kindly, Anthony>

Refugium question 4/14/03
hey there Anthony, how's it going?  
<like a dog and I'm wearing Milk-bone underwear <G>>
Anywho,  I plan to set up an above tank refugium for my 90 gal. reef.  I plan to use about a 30 or 38 gallon to do this, and gravity feed it back to my 90 as you recommend.  Well if I go with the 5 inch sand bed like you recommend , and use Halimeda ,
<all good>
what kind of spectrum of light and how many watts would be good for this?  
<depends on the depth of the tank. If this is a standard 30 gall at 18" deep... then 100 to 150 watts of PC or other fluorescent light would be fine. For a deeper aquarium... a single 150 or 175 watt MH with a parabolic reflector would be ducky>
Also do I want to have actinic on this along with the daylight?
<not needed unless you desire the aesthetic>
Another thing is that in my display tank I have a bunch
of Sargassum macro algae growing , I have to trim it cause it grows rather quickly, but  I didn't want to remove it completely, I wanted to put it into my refugium when I set it up.  
Is it recommended to mix the different types of algae I mentioned??
<not recommended here... the Sargassum will outcompete most>
Next here, I just bought another elegance coral after researching and looking carefully at the next one before I decided to buy, looks pretty good as far I my judgment goes.  Its a purple tipped with a light green body, I placed him about midway in my tank under a very shaded area provided by the Sargassum algae,  I know there supposed to be on the bottom,
<if the skeleton is conical, they should be placed in the sand... deriving food/nutrition from the placement (DSB bacteria, etc)>
should I put him under a dark on the sand instead?  My lights are 2 -175 MH on a 90 gal.
<the sand would be best?
I feed him a piece of silverside to see if he would eat and he has a very strong grasp while i tried to pull it away.  
<the food is too large... smaller pieces please. Minced silversides, krill, plankton... or simply smaller whole prey like mysids>
He is staying open all day and night , out of the other 2 elegance I 've had, none have stay open as long and fully as this one, and that he ate with in 10 minutes of putting him into the tank was not to bad a sign I would like to think.  Maybe my research and you're guys help may have paid off  with me finally making an
educated choice on one of these.  Anyhow, on  the refugium lighting you have thankfully recommended to me above will this elegance survive for me if i take him out of the display and put him into that  refugium??  
<I'd suggest t hat you simply leave the elegant on the sand bottom under the MH to live/grow in piece. Fear of being overgrown by algae in the refugium>
thanks a lot.
<best regards, Anthony>

Refugium Lighting And Macroalgae Use
Hey Guys,
<Hello! Scott F. with you today!>
A couple of questions. I have read a lot of the FAQs pages but I have yet to see a definitive answer. Do you think 24/7 or a reverse cycle lighting is better.
<Well, I personally favor the 24/7 lighting in the sump; it's just plain easier to do, and it has worked well for me (I am of the school that says, "If it isn't broken- don't fix it!"). However, it is certainly not "natural", and people have theorized that the constant light keeps the macroalgae in a sort of "stasis"- much more definitive research has to be done in this area. The "reverse daylight" technique has worked well for many hobbyists. The primary function of RDP and 24/7 is to maintain a more stable pH in the display tank. It really is open to debate and experimentation as to which is better>
Also I am using a combo of grape, prolifera, and feather Caulerpa. My Nitrites are 0 my phosphates are 0 also. I see that you do not recommend Caulerpa why?
<Caulerpa tends to be an extremely invasive macroalgae, even in a refugium situation. Also, it has a propensity to "go sexual", at which time gametes and cellular material are released into the water as part of the algae's reproductive cycle. This can cause a depletion in the tank's oxygen levels, and a substantial degradation of water quality as these materials decompose. Also, studies by hobbyists seem to have implicated that Caulerpa produces substances which may inhibit the growth of corals in closed aquarium systems. Some of these substances can be leached when the runners are broken, as they may be during "harvesting" of the algae>
If you had one Caulerpa to choose which would you use or is a combo good.
<If you are determined to use Caulerpa, I'd use a single species. I have always favored C. prolifera, myself. Frankly- I'd recommend an equally hardy, productive, and useful macroalgae, Chaetomorpha linum, which has many of the "benefits" and none of the downsides of Caulerpa. I use this macroalgae exclusively, and am very satisfied with its results>
My refugium has only been active for 2 months but so far so good. Should I expect any problems in the future?
<If your refugium is well thought-out, and a compatible combination of creatures inhabits it- there should be no difficulties>
Also lots of amphipods in refugium, how can I get this life in tank? Fish eat all in seconds before they can hide.
<You could simply net collect the "pods and feed them that way. Or- simply allow some to be carried into the tank via the refugium return...Maybe not the most efficient way- but it works>
If you were to 86 Caulerpa what would you use (mangrove?) what are your thoughts?
<Chaetomorpha, as outlined above, or possibly Gracilaria>
By the way I am using a protein skimmer. Thanks Jim
<Well, Jim- lots of controversy here. Make your choices based on your needs and concerns...Hope this helped. Good luck! Regards, Scott F>

Refugium Lighting
Hello,
I am setting up a marine system with a 90g display tank, 10g sump and 15g refugium.  
<A good idea, but 15 gallons is very small for a 90 display. Should be around 1/3 to more of the display volume.>
I've been reading articles and FAQs but am still not clear about the type of lighting I should have for the refugium.  It is not my intention to make a reef tank out of the refugium, just to fill it with 3-4" aragonite, live rocks and lots of macroalgae to deter the growth of microalgae in the display tank and help filtrate the system naturally.
What lighting do you recommend for this purpose?  I was considering an Aqualite single-strip 65w, 24" straight pin fixture for $59; will this work? Any other suggestions about my refugium plan?  Thanks, Jeff
<Refugiums just need enough light for plant growth, not the intensity required for reefs, not that it hurts. A 65 watt PC would work fine for 15 gallons, maybe more, but do consider a larger refugium. There is much more on refugiums at WetWebMedia.com, search on refugium in the google search engine. Sounds like a lot of fun!   Craig>

Refugium Lighting
I recently purchased Anthony's Book of Coral Propagation.  Excellent book.
<thank you, my friend! Please share what you learn in kind with others>
I have read the first 80 pages religiously and impatiently scanned through the rest looking for answers to my current dilemma.
I'm currently setting up a 240 gal display tank (1st floor); overflow to 180 gal refugium/sump, housing sea grass, mangroves and sponges (basement).
<very cool already>
Refugium has 4" mixed CaribSea sugar sized and fine aragonite sand.
Regarding lighting a refugium, I have heard someone suggest: 70 Watt HPS light at 95CRI and 2900K. Others tell me that lighting will grow unwanted algae, out of control. What type of lighting would you suggest for the Refugium?
<lighting will not grow unwanted algae easily without nutrients. Nutrients really are the limiting factor for nuisance algae species. With that said... I must admit that 2900K is obscenely warm colored and may very well contribute to undesirable species of algae more easily. Please don't bother with fancy or expensive lights here. Simple daylight fluorescents from URI (6500-7500K) will be very fine. Even plant type bulbs as warm as 5500K would work well. Approaching or dipping below 4000K is not sensible IMO for the big picture>
Anthony also recommends a (Tunze) return pump to minimize impeller shear.
<true... but I also admit that impeller shear is really over-rated. I would not worry about it>
I don't see a high head Tunze return pump.  Could you recommend a external return pump for a 14' head return, to be used at the refugium?
<Japanese made Iwasaki gets my vote almost every time... they last forever (have seen more than a few over 10 years old) and are near indestructible. Low power consumption, modest heat imparted, very quiet. Time-tested. Just avoid the dual pump series (noisy). Find one that satisfies your flow and the allowances of the bulkheads/overflow you have drilled.>
Thanks, GREG
<best regards, Anthony>

RDP refugium and CO2
Hi, it's me again. I hope that everything is going well, sunny skies and all of that, it's cold as heck here.   I went ahead and set up the refugium last night, and I was re-reading the reply that you sent me and I was wondering...When you were talking about the reverse light cycle, I thought about something.  It will help the pH remain stable, true.  I was also thinking, "If the two were on a reverse light cycle, since plants become primary producers of co2 at night, would the main tank produce enough co2 to discontinue supplementation, and vice versa?  Or would I still need to do that?
<good question my friend, but it is one that cannot be answered here  by Yes or No. I/you have no idea what the net demand is on your tank from the bio mass. We cannot say that if met now that the growth in either vessel will not continue to support the process. This is simply something you must monitor in your specific aquarium. Is you display filled with two one inch corals... or fifty (follow, my friend). A good question, again... but not possible for me to answer from this end of the computer. Do enjoy experimenting with it though <G>! Best regards, Anthony>

- Sump/Refugium Construction & Lighting -
Hi guys! <Greetings, JasonC here...> I sent this last week but haven't heard back so am assuming it may have gotten lost when I had some mail problems. I also have some questions on lighting so thought I'd add them here.
SUMP/REFUGIUM: I am interested in setting up a sump/refugium for my 72g bowfront tank that I will be converting to FOWLR later this week. I have a 29g All-Glass that is not being used and would like to use this as the sump/refugium. I would like to do this without drilling the tank and have some ideas but I'm not 100% positive that they'll work and am still at a loss on a couple of things. I've checked out all of your sump FAQ's and have also checked http://www.ozreef.org/diy/index.html but none of the designs there look like they'll work for me and they don't address my concerns. I've attached a drawing of my basic design, this is a front view w/ approx measurement of a 29g. I'm figuring on just using a tube with gravity siphon to get the water from my tank to the sump which will be located in the stand below my 72g. This way the siphon can be set so that if the water in the tank gets too low it would drop below the end of the tube and would stop the siphon. The first section would be 6" wide and is where the water would enter the sump. It is also where I would place the heater and possibly the skimmer but I ordered a HOT type skimmer so am not sure if it will work here. The first divider would be glass or plexi positioned 3" from the top (this is to provide an overflow in case the water level gets too high) and 3" from the bottom of the tank. The second section would be 3" wide and would be a place for filter floss/carbon/etc and would have a plastic mesh top at a height of 8-9" to prevent the filter media from overflowing into the refugium part. The second divider would again be glass or plexi but positioned flush with the bottom (sealed) and 9" from the top of the tank. The third section would be 15" wide and would have a sand bed with live rocks and Caulerpa. The third divider would be the same as the second in position and composition. The fourth section would be 6" wide and would be the area for the return pump. So far, does this sound like it would work? <Yes.> Are there any things I should change? <Consider seriously drilling your main tank - siphon overflows are destined to fail, and if Murphy has anything to do with it, you won't be home at the time.> My major stumbling block is what to do about a return pump. I'm not sure how to do this without risking the pump pumping too fast and overflowing the main tank. <Part of the problem with using siphons - in a gravity overflow, the tank will only overflow as fast as you pump water in.> Any suggestions? <Use a valve on the output side of the pump to regulate it.> Are there any pumps on the market that have an auto shut-off so that it would shut itself off if the water in the return area dropped below a certain point? <Not that I know of, but there are water sensing devices that could probably be adapted.>
LIGHTING: This 72g tank currently has the original strip light on it. It's a 48" 40w and I know I'm going to have to upgrade this. I'm not able to spend more than about $150-$200, is there anything decent I can get in this price range? <I'm sure there is, but I'm not familiar with prices, so it's hard for me to make a recommendation based on price.> I've looked at/considered several options but just can't make up my mind. One thought was to get a Helios 4 bulb/220w strip. This will run about $156. Another was to get an extra strip light that would house 2 40w bulbs and run it along with the current strip light that's on the tank. By the time I replace my current bulb this would cost about $110 (I really dislike the idea of running 2 strips on there!). And the final was to get a PC SmartLite with 2 65w bulbs which would be about $170. If necessary the SmartLight could be run along with my current strip but again I'd like to avoid 2 fixtures if at all possible. Do any of these sound sufficient or am I overlooking a better option that would work for me? <I would work the problem backwards - what is it that you want to keep, and what are its light requirements - that will necessarily move you in one direction or another.> The tank measures 48.5x18x23.
Thanks for all the help! I look forward to hearing/reading your thoughts on these items.
Ronni
<Cheers, J -- >

Lighting the productive refugium and tang compatibility
Dear Bob,
<Hi Howard, Craig here...>
Here's Howard again, now having started up the new "fauna production refugium" in series with the Caulerpa refugium. Following suggestions from you and several of your associates it has 5 inches of sugar fine oolitic aragonite along with 2 pound inoculations of live sand from Florida, Fiji, and Inland Aquatics' filters. I have put in Mysis, Gammarus, and mini-brittle stars along with other tiny stars and a variety of worms and other life (some that I must research to identify) that came with the live sand. I will add peppermint shrimp for their egg strand production and continue to look for other sources of "plankton".
<Sounds like a lot of fun. Maybe work the brittle stars out of there as they take the "refuge" out of refugium for your amphipods and sand inhabitants and you want to grow and reproduce them.>
On Anthony's advice no Caulerpa but I have found Codium, Chaetomorpha, a red grape, Halimeda, and Ochtodes. My question is what level of light I should maintain? (the Caulerpa refugium is on 24 hours, 40 watts). I can't find anything on the lighting needs of these more interesting slower growing plants. For now I have rigged a spare dual 55 watt power compact 50/50 actinic/white on chains so I can put it at any height from 2 inches up. I would like your advice as to how close I should run this fixture to make both the plants and the amphipods happy? Should I get a different fixture - halide or fluorescent? Should lights run more than 12 hours?
<Twin 55's, that's 110 watts of PC? Depending on the size/depth of the refugium this should be fine. I would use the growth of the plants as my guide. This can be run anywhere from 12 to 24 hours depending on pH stability and if that benefit is desired along with good plant growth which will happen with more hours of light.>
I am looking for a blue addition to my peaceful community - have re-read your wonderful material including the chapter in depth about tangs. I have a Zebrasoma flavescens yellow tang, one of the first 4 fish that I acquired for the reef. (along with sleeper goby, flame angel, and clown and have added neon gobies, Anthias, convicts, and fire fish gobies) In 100 gallons, would a smaller xanthurus or Paracanthurus hepatus be at risk? These are beautiful fish! Or would the smaller size and different color make it an ok addition? Macro algae food source is plentiful. As always, Bob I appreciate your advice. Wondering if this departure might work out.
<My bet is on the Yellow having difficulties with a new Tang addition if there is a problem, but this is a purely individual reaction. If you go this route do prepare for possible problems and returning the fish if necessary. Craig>

Re: Refugium Lights
Hi Bob and WWM crew,
<Hello Razi,>
I have setup a refugium after reading 1/4 of your book "conscientious marine aquarist" within 2 days. I am following what ever is in my abilities to the best but have some questions for you.
1. Can I use blue light on the hang-on refugium. I have an 18 inch hang-on from CPR. Will this disrupt the refugium life cycle in anyway. I am turning the lights on in night time which is opposite to my tank lights.
<I would use a normal white spectrum bulb. Refugium plants aren't demanding in this regard, however, I doubt they will do as you wish with just the blue spectrum.>
2. How many hrs of lights should be good in a refugium.
<Anywhere from 12 to 24 depending on your choice of plant material and own choices, i.e; pH stability.>
3. I am using Jalli 13 compact fluorescent lights. Are these ok for AquaFuge 18" refugium for a 150G reef ? Did not have any room to put bigger refugium than this. I hope it will be ok.
<Jalli is alright for this size hang-on. These hang-on refugiums aren't really the best size for large tanks in the 150 area. Maybe for 55-75 on the upper end. I would be looking at a 55-60 gallon refugium over the top of a 150 myself if I was planning on it providing sufficient food for a 150 and exporting waste for such a volume>. 
4. I have some small live rock pieces, Caulerpa and 5 lbs miracle mud in it and it has been up for about 2 weeks now. I am not seeing much happening in there yet but how much time am I looking for before I start noticing some growth in the refugium? Your response is much appreciated. 
Regards, Razi Burney
<You should be seeing growth anytime now. If your lighting is just blue, then that is surely your problem and you should replace the bulb with a full spectrum bulb optimized for aquatic plants. I would run lights over Caulerpa 24/7 to help prevent vegetative degeneration and related issues. Please see: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/refugium.htm
and the related links at the top of the page. Think 1/4-1/3 total volume to work like you want, i.e: 40-50 gallons minimum. Craig>

Refugium lighting
hi bob
<Anthony Calfo in your service>
I am now building a refugium for my 130gallon reef tank. It is 48x14x18.
It will hold about 45 gallons of water, sand and Caulerpa.
<have the discipline to keep it fishless and enjoy great amounts of zooplankton too>
I was wondering what intensity of light should I use and also what kind of lighting.
<depends entirely upon the symbionts being kept. Warm colored light for shallow water algae species, heavier full spectrum for deeper water (but not deep) species. Still... 6500-10,000K will do the trick. At Eighteen inches deep you are getting near that point where fluorescent lights will be only moderately effective and too weak for some plant and algae species. PC or VHO's would reparably be your best bet. 2-4 110watt daylight VHOs would be one fine possibility>
should I reverse the lighting with the main tank or should I leave it on 24hrs.
<RDP would be nice for pH stabilization but not necessary>
Ecosystem surest 24hrs,kent marine 12hrs reverse with tank.
What do you suggest?
<I favor 12hrs, and not necessarily RDP. In a tank with mild pH swings I like the slight dip for extra dissolution of oolitic sand. But keep in mind my perspective as a coral farmer. You may want to trade that slight advantage in growth for the stability>
also if I hatch live brine shrimp, can I put them in the refugium? will they survive? will they reproduce and supply food to corals and fish?
They'll service for a while, but are not likely to breed or live long. Simply keep the 'fuge fishless and encourage copepods and amphipods with various grades of rubble>
thanks big d
<your welcome, big T: cousin to Joey bag-O-donuts>

Refugium
Bob, in a refugium with Caulerpa, why does the light need to be on for 24/7.
<The 24/7 light cycle is supposed to keep the Caulerpa from going sexual.>
Ii it because of slowing down growth or oxygen consumption? I would like to try 12 hours on 12 hours off.
<If you do so, have the light on opposite your main tank. This way the Caulerpa is consuming the CO2 that your main tank inhabitants are producing at night.>
Some of my Caulerpa seems to die off after a while and then come back. Thanks
<No problem. -Steven Pro>

Refugium lighting question
Hi Anthony/Barb/Bob/Jason/Steven/anyone I missed,
<Yep... Dave and Zo>
I feel like I'm reliving Monty Python's Quest for the Holy Grail in trying to find a decent, affordable refugium light.
<for $50 punch a hole in your roof and mount a chimney pipe or light tube <VBG>. The best light>
I found one, Bayco's Bookworm light come with waterproof end caps (just where are these people reading books that you need a waterproof light?),
<Turkish bathhouses>
an anodized reflector, a 13w PC bulb that's 6500K, perfect... and I can't find one closer than MI. Unless, I'm willing to pay about twice the cost online($20 vs. $12), not including shipping($5-$6). That defeats the affordable angle.
While AH Supply makes a nice product, I'm trying to stay under $20, and by the time you factor in building or hacking apart an enclosure to make the refit fit, the cost of the refit kit, and the bulb, we're well over what I'm aiming for.
I've checked the local Home Depot type places, and while there are cheap shop lights, they're all in the wrong color (like 1025K).
<ya.... about as yellow as Mountain Dew>
So... whilst buying filter pads for my cats' water bowls (their even more spoiled than the fish) I saw that Petco is now carrying a clip on 7w, 6500K light. It's kind of pricey IMO ($17.95), but would it do for a DIY'd refugium based on an Aqua Clear 300 HOT filter? 
<Nano or not... the wattage is just too low to be useful IMO and the color is an aesthetic semantic at that point>
The refugium area would be approx. 6"w*6"l*5"d. Would this be sufficient light to support a population of macroalgae? 
<not even close... get your teeth whitened instead and reflect a flash light off of them while reading the daily paper for a better source of light>
Or, do I need to bite the bullet and go over my limit?
<yep... or shave your head too and bounce a spotlight off of that to supplement the flashlight>
Thanks for your efforts, PF 
<and thank you for the question <G>! Anthony>

Refugium
What is the reason that it is recommended that refugium lights are to run opposite the main lights or all the time??? 
<Not always recommended... but when so, it helps to temper fluctuations in pH. pH drops at night due to respiration in photosynthetic animals (CO2/carbonic acid) and a reverse daylight photosynthesis (RDP) refugium or display can counter this effect>
And what creatures should be in there (currently green brittle star, 2 snails, 1 red/1 blue hermit crabs)?
<for it to work you will need photosynthetic material (coral, reef invertebrates, and commonly plants)>
the refugium is 8 gal with a 20 gal sump. The refugium is slightly above the sump. 
<I personally prefer my refugiums in-line above the display so that plankton produced overflows nightly right into the display for coral and fish>
Water is pumped into the refugium from the sump. Then there is a
drilled hole with a siliconed tube to return the water to the sump. Does this seem OK. 
<yes, fine>
Last question does UV work against the idea of a refugium
<little harm...but little need for it if you are properly quarantining all new fish and coral in a separate hospital tank. Put the UV on the QT tank instead. Kind regards, Anthony>

Refugium Lighting
Hi Bob,
I read the questions and answers from the person who is converting their
sump into a refugium. As you may recall, I have also been working on
the refugium idea. Like this person, I was considering using PC
lighting, too. But then I asked myself -- isn't that overkill? We're
not trying to have corals in the refugium -- just algae. I was thinking
of using a cheap T12 24" double bulb fixture from Home Depot, along with
some NO fluorescent bulbs, say one Coralife 10K and one of their "plant"
bulbs. Wouldn't that be more than enough to propagate some macro-algae?
<Yes, a good use of technology. HD even has a small "Lights of America" fixture/lamp combo that is a PC... also appropriate. Bob Fenner>
Thanks,
Dale.

Refugium
Bob,
I have a 55 gallon tank with a 15 gallon sump (only
partially full and want to grow Caulerpa in the
space where my wet dry media is. Because of this I
cannot provide a substrate. Will this be a problem
and what kind of light do you need to provide to grow
Caulerpa?
thank you in advance for your advice.
Jim
>>
Either grow the Caulerpa on top of the wet dry media, or replace the media with live rock, mud instead and place the Caulerpa there... 
Any source of full spectrum light of whatever type output will do. I use small compact fluorescent hoods, but regular output fluorescents on up will do. Warm lamps (5k plus).
Bob Fenner

Lighting for macroalgae in a refugium
Hi Bob,
Once again, thank you for the prompt reply. I will look into Sylvania
Chroma lamps and good electronic ballasts. With regard to ballasts, I know
that the IceCap ballasts are good quality - how about Coralife ballasts for
two normal output fluorescent bulbs?
<They're fine.>
You stated in your last message that CF lamps are less expensive per unit
PAR than for other types of lighting. What rating for a CF lamp would you
choose to grow macroalgae in a sump refugium? 
<Just any small, inexpensive fixture and lamp... really. There are some units sold at the hardware stores by "Lights of America" that are very reasonable.>
Also, how would a redder spectrum plant light perform watt per watt against
a CF lamp for growing macroalgae? For example, would you estimate that one
55 watt CF bulb could out-perform two 36" T8 Gro-Lux lamps (60 watts total)?
<Good questions all... but apparent spectral mix have little to do with function... redder would not be better. The CF would grow more of whatever and what's more be apparently much brighter.>
Bruce Grant
>>
Many many things about EMR, lighting...
Bob Fenner

Lights on a Refugium
Hello Mr. Fenner,
I have been doing a lot of reading on your wet web site about refugiums.
So about 2 weeks ago I purchased an AquaFuge made by CPR.
http://www.cprusa.com/products/citr.html
I have also read that you say leave the lights on the refugium opposite of
the main tank. Although I have been, but a lot of light is coming into my
main tank at night via the CF I use on the AquaFuge. Is this ok? Or should I
just run the lights the same hours I run the main tank, what has me
wondering is cause you say opposite of the main tank, would it be bad to run
both at the same time?
Thank you very much, Kathy
<Hmm, how much is "a lot" of light? Not to worry, if it were me, I'd actually leave the lights on as they are now... the amount of "ancillary illumination" is likely not excessive or real trouble to your main system's occupants. Many places leave their lights on continuously as you describe... including our experimental filter tanks (CF lights over hang on's have been on for years... the fishes still sleep, corals still grow... Bob Fenner>

Re: Question regarding w/d use as refugium
Hello, Mr. Fenner,
<Howdy>
And thank you for the quick response!
<You're welcome>
I have started this refugium project, and realize that I do indeed have a
few things confusing me. heheheh- I thought I had it all figured out.
<Don't know anyone who does... including myself>
I read somewhere online that using play sand (sand for sandboxes, etc) is
okay for a project such as this. Is this true?
<Well... actually only a few types are advisable... you likely want to avoid the ones that are silicates... and use one that is carbonaceous (made of calcium carbonate) of all about the same grade...>
I bought a 50 lb bag today
for under two bucks, then before I added it starting thinking... just what's
IN this stuff?
<Question of the hour>
Another thing- I went to purchase the PC lighting today (would you believe
that Home Depot had NO PC fixtures that aren't for outdoor/motion sensor
applications?), and I realized that I had utterly no idea what kind of
wattage I'm looking for. I'm looking to light my sump, which is at most
10-12 gallons. And it's only 1/3 full at any given point, so I am thinking
that 60 watts of light may be serious overkill on this. What would you
recommend?
<Sixty watts would likely be okay...>
I think that's about it for now. I truly appreciate the help.
/john
<Be chatting my friend. Bob Fenner>