Sick fish can't identify...  "sent by phone!"    2/16/08

Another picture this is my only means. Please understand. <Say what? A Zebrasoma... with a "bad" mouth, some sort of protozoan complaint...>

A third picture. Symptoms are clumps, whit spots, and dark lines? Please help. I have been treating with an formalin/malachite green product. Please help! ... no reading, no data... <You're joking? In order to help folks we need data... the system, history, water quality tests... You're wasting y/our time here, and your livestock's health. Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/sailfindisfaqs.htm and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Re: A third picture. Symptoms are clumps, whit spots, and dark lines? Please help. I have been treating with an formalin/malachite green product. Please help!   2/16/08 Bob, the readings are all within normal parameters, <...> or I would have specified earlier, the other fish are all doing good as well. This is an established tank of more than a year. Temp. Is 74, salinity @ 2.0. <... what? No.> Nitrates undetectable. Can you identify it from the pictures? <... Please read where you were referred to. B>

Sailfin "Black Spot" only behind eyes?  12/22/08
Greetings crew, thank you in advance for your time and wise, patient advice.
<Welcome April>
I have thought for the past several weeks now that my Sailfin has Black Spot disease.
He only has those Black Spot looking pepper dots just behind his eyes, a small cluster of them, about 7-10, all together, patterned like a half moon. None anywhere else.
<Mmm, something else>
The rest of his body is clear of any black dots. I have included a photo here of what my guys' looks like.
<No photo attached>
(This is not my fish, I've searched the web for an image to show you. I do not have permission to use this photo publicly.) So, does this fish have Black Spot?
<Not if only behind the eyes, no>
I see a little pitting on this fish, like some sort of erosion, mine just has the few black dots also seen here. So much research I have done on what this disease looks like, and every source I have read discusses the dots over the entire body, not just in one area as shown here. Are these handful of dots cause for concern? Happy holidays!
April.
<The markings may be symptomatic of HLLE... Please read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/HLLESWCauseF.htm
and the linked files above, and try to send along a well-resolved pic if you can. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Question about a Desjardini tang sickness -09/03/08 Hello. Hopefully the pictures come through fine. <Yes> My question is in regards to my Desjardini tang. I hope the pictures show the small brown spots he is developing. <I see these> Two days ago I snapped some shots and looked at them and his skin is perfectly clear. Tonight I looked and noticed he has these light brown spots all over his body. Any idea what this is? <Yes... "stress" markings...> Everyone else in the tank seems fine. Grant <Mmm, something amiss... psycho- or physiologically... See WWM re all Zebrasoma entries. Bob Fenner>

Re: Question about a Desjardini tang sickness 09/04/2008 I'm actually glad to hear it is "just stress" because I was wracking my brain trying to figure out how a disease could have been introduced. I've been very careful about quarantining my fish for 4 weeks before introduction to the main display tank, thankfully none of my fish have ever shown any indication of illness so I actually haven't had to treat anything. <Good> After I fired off my email last night, I did my basic water checks and sure enough, one of my parameters was way out of whack. I had a little problem this weekend that caused there to be no water flow in the main tank and barely any through the sump for probably 4 or 5 hours. A 210 gallon tank doesn't cool much in 5 hours, but I'm sure it dropped a degree or two and there was no flow, so low oxygen levels. <This would do it> Also, I had a very important meeting to go to Sunday morning (this all happened Saturday night/Sunday morning) so I just really quickly bandaided the problem so my system was up and working again and then went to my meeting. Long story short, I had lost about 10 gallons of water that Sunday morning and when I replaced it, I did it with 1.025 salinity saltwater. In my haste I didn't use my regular freshwater for top off, I don't know what I was thinking, I guess I just wasn't. Anyway, I checked my salinity last night and it was 1.0275. I have since lowered it to 1.026 and tonight I'll finish lowering it back to 1.025. Can salinity alone cause these stress markings on a Zebrasoma? <Yes> I think I've read every single Zebrasoma FAQ multiple times now. I looked some more last night and didn't see anything about this either, I even used the search function for "Zebrasoma brown" just to see, there are a couple references to turbellid worms or else velvet (which I was really hoping this wasn't) but nothing else. I guess here in a couple days though there will be an entry in there for exactly what I'm dealing with :) <I believe you're right...> The other annoying thing is this... I have a small Purple tang, about 2.5". The Desjardini is about 4.5", they don't fight at all that I've ever seen and I spend a great deal of time watching my tank. After the Desjardini had the brown spots last night, I looked closely at the Purple tang and I'm almost sure he has ich. There aren't any spots on his fins yet, but the fins are so yellow it would be really hard to see unless the spots got big. He just has probably 10-15 small white bumps on each side of his body. <This could be something else... even "nothing"> I didn't see him scratching and I didn't put him into QT because if he does have ich, <I would not> then so does the whole tank and I don't have the means/time to move all fish into QT for 6-8 weeks while the main tank fallows. What really irritates me is not only that I have a fish with small amounts of ich, but also that I even have ich in the first place. I've been religious about FW dip  /formalin for 5 minutes and then into QT for at least a month for all fish. None of them have shown signs of ich in the QT and I really examined them closely. I didn't treat proactively for ich, I figured if after a month they didn't show the tiniest dot, then they didn't have it. And yet here we are, about 2 months after my last fish went into the tank and yep, I've got ich. I've probably had it all along and just the stress of the weekend brought it out. <Patience here> Anyway, just irritating. I cant think of a time when I swapped equipment between tanks (I have a dedicated QT tank set and a display tank set) and I even FW dipped between going from QT to display. All that trouble, literally months of quarantine, mixing lots of salt water to do 20% water changes daily on the QT tanks, special feeding and babying of the new fish and I've still got ich. I wonder at what point I messed up and introduced ich into the tank, although I've been wracking my brain and I cant think of when I did it. One fish must have just had a little ich on him in an unseeable spot, probably the gills and just didn't show it, so  I ended up passing it into the display tank eventually. Thanks for reading my rant and for all the good work you guys do! Grant <Welcome. BobF> Re: Question about a Desjardini tang sickness 9/6/08 9/8/08 Thought I might comment on this, too. Bob, since you're probably painfully familiar with me, you may recall I have this same situation in my tank. We have a 'subclinical' presence of Ick in my tank still, and your recommendations for such a situation have worked well. Once every few weeks I will see a few cysts on my fish, particularly the Atlantic Blue Tang. A day later, they will be gone with no reoccurrence for weeks. Our regimen is garlic supplemented with a variety of foods and 'Vitality' by Seachem. If we add a fish, we QT it for a few weeks, but mainly to build up it's resistances and to make sure it is in full health before adding. I wanted to comment because I know how frustrating it can be for this guy, but there is hope. Thanks again, Thomas <Thank you Tom. BobF>

Swimming Erratically
First time writer to your column, been reading it for a while. I have a 60 gallon tank with a number of corals (elegance, bubble, colt, shrooms, frogspawn, brains, leathers) with four types of tangs (Naso, Yellow, Regal Blue, and Desjardini), a Coral Beauty angel, and two black clownfish. Well, everyone is doing great with the exception of the Desjardini tang. Lately, he has been swimming erratically like his swim bladder is not functioning. He flaps his fins like crazy to keep his body from floating sideways to the top. Or, he swims at a straight down angle or in a looping fashion. His appearance and appetite are normal. Is this a documented condition and is there any thing that can be done to lessen the stress??
<<How long you had that Zebrasoma? Ever been treated by/with copper? Sometimes Sailfins just go this route... and no, not much/anything you can do (that I'm aware of). Bob Fenner>>

Holes in Dorsal Fin
I've got a 6" Sailfin tang in my display tank (125gal.) and he's been doing fine for the past 1 1/2 yrs. But recently (2-3 months) I've noticed that his large dorsal fin has holes in it. From the looks of it, it seems to be thinning. Any explanation or prevention of this? Also, I've got a 3" Kole tang in the hospital tank. The tank has about 2 ppm Cu2+ to control the nasties. The tang has been in the tank for almost two weeks and last week I noticed what appears to be a blister or abscess under his left pectoral fin. And in the last two days, it looks as if a second is forming on his right side near the base of the dorsal fin. Both have a somewhat circular shape so I don't think its lateral line erosion. I'm not sure if he's just scratched himself against a rock and the copper is affecting it or whether it's something else. Any ideas or suggestions? I was planning on introducing him into the display tank this weekend but now I might hold off.
<<Hey Bri. Re: the first surgeon... very likely the "holiness" of the dorsal is a combination of mere growth/age and a less than satisfactory diet. Do you offer 'human-food' algae like Nori occasionally? Do so and dip it first in a vitamin and iodine solution.
The Ctenochaetus tang (Kole) is definitely in trouble from the copper. Do remove the Cu++ or better still, move the fish. I'd take the big risk and plunk it into my best reef tank. I've stated such before, but this family and their close relatives (e.g. the Rabbitfishes, Siganidae, scats: Scatophagidae, Idols: Zanclidae) can't take much in the way of sustained, let's make that chronic (more than a few days) copper treatments... kills off needed alimentary microbes. Bob Fenner>>

Sick RedSea Sailfin Quit Eating
Hello again Mr. Fenner,
I wrote you recently about copepods & 2-fish in my quarantine tank- (flame angel & red sea Sailfin tang). My red sea tang has suddenly taken a turn for the worse & has quit eating, breathing rapidly & "hovering" in the same lower left corner of the tank all of the time. My nitrates were at 20 & ammonia was very low but my ph lowered to 7.9, from 8.3. So I added a small amount of Kent 8.3 to the tank. 
<Over what period of time? A change of no more than 0.1 of a pH point in twenty four hours is about maximum>
This behavior started later that evening (Sunday). Yesterday I did a 3 gal water change and nothing has changed. Any suggestions???
<Hope... increase aeration... I would likely take the chance and move this specimen to your main tank>
Today is the 29th day in quarantine.
<This is too long... in almost all cases two weeks will get you about all you can hope to get... unless the specimens that are being quarantined show definite "catching" characteristics I would limit this protocol to fourteen days>
I would also like your advice in another one of your favorite arenas.
We are trying to plan a vacation to a spot where we can observe salt fish collection, diving (snorkeling) and seeing tropical fish and reefs first hand. Wives would be along also, so a nice hotel is a must. I live in Las Vegas, NV & my brother lives in Newport beach, ca. Naturally, the closer, the better. We will be traveling in late Sept. or Oct.. Mexico, Belize, Florida ??? 
<All good choices... and would toss in Hawai'i... generally there are calm-enough places, warm-enough water that time of year for HI... Take a long look on the Net at all possibilities, and chat these up with all parties... When you narrow the locale down we'll chat. Bob Fenner>
Thanx for your advice in advance. Craig

Re: Sick RedSea Sailfin
Mr. Fenner,
Thanx again for you light speed response! The reason the 2 fish are in
the 10 quarantine tank is I've let the main tank go 30 days without occupants to hopefully get rid of the crypto eggs. 
<Ah, now that makes sense...>
I hope I was doing the right thing. My LFS suggested to go the full 30 days. I do put your expertise above theirs, although the girl has 15yrs. experience. 
<Best to consider alls opinions to make up your own mind, course of action>
Do you think I should wait the one more day, or get both of the fish back in the 50 gal.
<If the one fish looks as bad as you describe, I would move it. It may perish otherwise. Bob Fenner>
Thanx so much. Craig

Re: Sick RedSea Sailfin
Mr. Fenner,
It looks like I owe you a Sushi dinner when you visit Las Vegas. I did find a great "all you can eat in an hour" spot nearby.
<I'm on my way!>
I added a Rio powered to my 10g to aerate the qt tank & within an hour or two, the RedSea Sailfin was moving about the tank. Although he still looks to be breathing rapidly, I think I will wait the extra day & introduce him into my main tank tomorrow. He still is not eating (I put Nori in the tank) but he does look a little better.
<The added aeration likely did the trick... the Surgeonfishes need high, consistent dissolved oxygen>
Since I'm not a gambling' man, you can't if you live in this town, I will wait till the morning. I would hate to go thru the crypto nightmare again. I'll keep you informed.
<Ah, good>
Thanx so much for your help. Craig
p.s. I checked out a couple of spots in Belize & will search more when I
have more time. We'll chat when I narrow it down. Thanx
<Real good... if it's your first time, maybe just Ambergris, San Pedro, about the Hol Chan... if you and wives are more adventurous, Caye/Key Caulker, Tenerife, many other off shore island possibilities... Lots of time, wanderlust? Drive the length down to Placentia, out to Laughing Bird.... We'll be chatting. Bob Fenner>

Sailfin Tang, Help A.S.A.P **911**
Hi Bob,
Love your Website!
<Thank you... what would you do different, add to the WWM site?>
I need your expert advice in order to prevent my Sailfin Tang from perishing. This is the second time that I am asking for your help with this same fish. The first time you were great and right on the money with your advice and I hope you can do the same this time around. I have been watching him very carefully each day, and he still exhibits signs of parasitic infestation. His appetite is still very good and he has a slight case of HLLE, but the main concern is that he is still breathing very rapidly, which makes me believe that he has gill parasites. With the mis-fortune of not having my hospital tank up and running I have come the conclusion that I have only two options. The first option now is treat my main tank with CopperSafe and pray that it will take control of this parasite, or my second option is to take this Sailfin Tang out of the main tank and try a" freshwater dip".
<The latter would be/is my choice for now... with a dilute formalin/malachite dip solution... look for the Kordon Corp. product here. And also Zoecon to add to the tank, food to help you with the HLLE... and live macro-algae as detailed on the WWM site>
My only concern is the procedure in which this method is done. Please Bob, give me some advice.
I would greatly appreciate it if you could give me the correct step by step instructions on this process. For instance: correct water conditions such as temp, ph, length of time the fish should be dipped, and also what to do after the fish is dipped. Please reply A.S.A.P if you would be so kind!!!!!
<These are spelled out well enough on the dip/bath section in the marine index. Please read them, download there. Bob Fenner>

Saltwater (Sailfin Tang) Disease
Hi, Mr. Fenner
I just had a few questions about why the tangs are so hard to keep healthy looking.
My Sailfin Tang always seems to be breathing heavy and his lateral line also seems to be a little faded. What is the cause of all this? I give
my fish a variety of foods like: brine shrimp, algae cubes, bloodworms, clam cubes, flake food, algae strips from seaweed select and I also add Vita-chem to their food daily. I tested all the levels in the fish only aquarium and they all fall within the parameters. My tank size is 42gal.Hex. and I also have a Niger Trigger and a Snowflake EEL. If you will please E-mail me back ASAP with some advice. Thanks, Tom
<Thank you for caring enough to investigate... These are not good signs as you know, but you may well have provided all the information here that is necessary to solve your systems problem. Yes, this is likely what can be termed an "environmental disease". That is the cause of the poor health manifestations listed (heavy breathing, HLLE) are due directly to unsatisfactory conditions in the living quarters. Please do read over the FAQ section associated with the term "environmental disease" posted on the site: www.wetwebmedia.com and consider the following: Increasing aeration/circulation (airstones, powerheads...) as of the fishes you list, the Tang is the one with the highest dissolved oxygen need. And to discount the likelihood that this may as well be a nutritional deficiency syndrome, do add liquid vitamins, and iodide (often called iodine in the trade) supplement to the fish's favored foods ahead of placing them in this system... Additionally, I would add some live rock to this system, some macro-algae to improve water quality and offer as food on a constant basis... and start saving for a larger system, as these fishes will need such within a year. Bob Fenner>

Sailfin Tang
I have a 55 gallon tank with a Sailfin Tang, Naso, Yellow Tang, Foxface, and a Percula Clown. I keep my SG around 1.022. My PH runs around 8.2, Ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates around 5ppm,temp at 77, and calcium at 400. I add Lugol's iodine once a week, Strontium 2x week, There is about 35 pounds of live rock with various mushrooms growing, and a couple of feather dusters that have came out over the last few days. 
I vary there diet with frozen brine shrimp plus, flake foods, organic grown romaine lettuce, and SERA Tablets ( the stick on the glass ones.)
Now that's the specifics on the tank and its inhabitants now on to the questions.
My Sailfin has appeared to change colors. From black and yellowish stripes to an almost beige or tan color where they used to be black. Is this normal? Also this morning I saw him rubbing his head on the substrate (which by the way is aragonite) and I am wondering the best course of action. i.e. fresh water dip, medicated flakes etc. I know you gonna ream me out for this, but I don't have a quarantine tank setup to isolate the Sailfin. But all be it I'll have one soon...Also any other suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, Brian...
<<Hmmm, not so fast... the color changes you mention and the "scratching" behavior may well not be indicative of a parasitic or other diseased condition... They may be "natural"... I'd hold off on dipping, any other chemical manipulation till you actually see some physical manifestation on the fish itself.
One thing I would do that will help, and has little potential downside is add a cleaner shrimp... one of the species of the genus Lysmata. Bob Fenner>>

Sailfin Tang - dying?  5/30/07
Hello – Appreciate your informative site!!
We have a 125 gallon reef tank, 1 Red Sea Sailfin Tang about a year old, 1 Red Flame Hawkfish, 1 Coral Banded Shrimp, 1 long tentacle anemone (New) and some various polyps and mushrooms.
Params are as follows:
PH 8.3
Amm = 0
Nitrites = 0
Nitrates = 0
Temp = 83 (bit high I think, but just put new MH Lights in)
In the last couple days my Tang has been acting a little strange, hanging out in one of the corners and not really swimming around like normal. We moved the powerheads around a bit but that didn’t help.
<May be just simple low dissolved oxygen, elevated temperature at play here...>
When I woke up this morning, I thought he was dead. He was hanging’ upside behind one of the rocks. I went to net him out and he swam, head down and upside down back over to the anemone.
I left him alone and came back to check on him and he was resting on the anemone. I nudged him to see if he was alive and he got caught up in the current’ - trying to right himself as he was upside down and/or sideways.
Also, one of his eyes are cloudy.
He is typically a very social fish!
We did a water change last week and rearranged some of the rocks, added the anemone.
<This may be a source of morbidity, mortality as well>
We had our old VHO ballast blow last weekend, so there was a day and half with out lights and then we moved to a MH light system.
This is a well established tank and everything else seems to be doing just fine! Any ideas, suggestions!?
Thanks in advance!!!
Jessica
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fishindex3.htm
Scroll down to the tray on Tangs, particularly the articles, FAQs files on the genus Zebrasoma. Bob Fenner>

Re: Sailfin Tang - dying?  5/31/07
Well he has now died.
Now, I am very curious about what could of killed him!
Is it possible he could of been stung bad enough by the anemone?
<Yes>
As he was dying, his skin was turning white – is that a sign of something or just the dying process?
<Could be either, both>
At any rate – any insight would be very much appreciated!
BTW – the registration for the forums is not working.
<Have sent this over and over to the administrator... Lorenzo Gonzalez... Don't know what the issue is, nor can I/we fix it for him. Thank you>
Thank you-
Jessica

Desjardini Tang with pockmarks   5/23/07
Dear Sir:
<John>
I reviewed your FAQs but my situation seems to be different than HLLE, etc. My 3 year old Desjardini Tang has these white "divots" confined to the area around its eyes above and below. The eyes are clear and the fish is active, colors otherwise vibrant, is an eager eater and appears healthy. These divots have existed for approximately 1.5  years and may be getting slightly worse.
<Mmm, this is almost certainly a form of "Neuromast destruction"... IS HLLE...>
The diet is primarily Formula 2 and Nori and whatever meat it can steal (and it doesn't get much) from the trigger, lionfish, 2 wrasses and a moray eel that live with it in a 125 gallon tank (FOWLR).
<This is way too much fish life for such a volume>
I have about 40 ppm nitrates
<And twice as much nitrate as they should be exposed to>
with 0 nitrites and ammonia. I buffer pH to a constant 8.3.
<Good>
In case you think it related to my problem, because of all of the messy eaters I have in the tank, I religiously change approx. 20 - 30 % of water per week.
<You need more space period, and likely more/better filtration>
Do you have a theory as to what may be causing this problem with my tang and what do you recommend I do about it ?  
<Poor environment and nutrition... Improving them/these...>
Thanks for your help.
John
<Posted... over and over... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs.htm
and the linked FAQs files above... Bob Fenner>

Re: Tank temp spikes and affect on Sailfin Tang 6/1/08
Thanks for your help. Unfortunately, he didn't make it. I fear that he had some sort of tissue necrosis, as large chunks of tissue were just falling off on the head as well in the body, just beyond the skull.
<Bizarre... more than one thing going on here>
It got so bad that it seemed like I could see a portion of his skull. I will send some photos of the condition. All other fish are doing great.
Out of curiosity, what size tank would you recommend for a fish like my tang?
<A Zebrasoma desjardinii needs at least a couple of hundred gallons to "do well"... this species (distinct from Z. veliferum further in the west Indo-Pacific out to Hawaii) gets very large. Both to about a "standard length" (a fisheries measure... sans basically the tail/caudal fin... of 40 cm... Yes, 16 inches... small individuals can "live" for a few years in smaller volumes... but... not well in a longer term sense>
I may or may not seek a replacement (of any kind) if it will get too crowded with my current livestock.
<Do see fishbase.org re as well: http://fishbase.org/NomenClature/ScientificNameSearchList.php?crit1_fieldname=SYNONYMS. SynGenus&crit1_fieldtype=CHAR&crit1_operator=EQUAL&crit1_
value=zebrasoma&crit2_fieldname=SYNONYMS.SynSpecies&crit2_fieldtype=CHAR&crit2_
operator=contains&crit2_value=&group=summary&backstep=-2
Bob Fenner>

Re: Tank temp spikes and affect on Sailfin Tang – 06/02/08
Thanks, Doc. I appreciate it and will likely go without a replacement to give the other guys room in my tank.
<Real good. BobF>
 

Re: Corals, Stocking, Bought the Tang - 6/11/08
Hi again!
<Hello Allison>
I bought a desjardinii tang today and thought it looked decent to me.
<mm.. fish needs a bigger tank.>
However, I posted a few pictures up at
http://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/showthread.php?t=323673
and a few users disagree with me. Apparently, my tang has HLLE!...Do you agree?
<The beginning. This is an emaciated fish.>
What should I do to help him recover?
<Return him to the store, and research before making your next purchase. I don't intend to be a damper on your excitement for the hobby, but your fish will be healthier and enjoy greater longevity- and you will enjoy the hobby more- if you read up on disease, stocking, etc and choose fish that are of an appropriate size for your tank and which you know how to take care of.>
Thanks!
<Welcome. Best of luck.>
Allison
<Benjamin>