Plenum, sumps setup I have a 55 gallon standard tank with about 80 lbs Bali live rock.  This is a glass tank, therefore I  installed an overflow about 6 months ago.  This overflows to a small refugium (10 ga) located underneath in the stand. <This IS a relative to your main tank, small sump... any chance to double plus size it... or more?>   This tank is composed of three compartments.  The first being an area containing my protein skimmer, heater, activated carbon.  The water then spills over into the next compartment, containing a 4 in live sand bed, with Bali live rock pieces and am growing Caulerpa to assist in nitrate reduction, and also to feed a mandarin in the future.  Next the water spills into the next are containing bioballs, and is then pumped back up into the display tank.  My refugium is lit 24 hrs a day to prevent it from going sexual. <All sounds good... except my concern should the power or pump go out... do test this... will the water overflow onto your floor?> My nitrates remain about 10-12.  Located next to the display tank, I have a 15 ga high tank which has been up and running for about 6 months.  My goal is to install a plenum to further help with my nitrate battle. <A good idea> I do 10% water changes to each tack every week or so, and each is lightly stocked. (pair of perculas with carpet anemone, 3 small Chromis plus a handful of small shrimp and crabs in the 55, a pink skunk with LTA, and Harlequin shrimp with his chocolate chip star in the 15)  Also I have numerous hermit crabs and snails in all 3 tanks.  My question is; what would be the best way to incorporate this 15 ga with plenum into my other system? <Actually, ideally, to mount it at about the same level as your current refugium... to ward against the overflow issue... have water run through it 3-4 volumes per hour... overflow into the ten...>   The 15 ga is a glass tank as well and the water level is just about one inch taller than the 55.  Ideally I would like the 15ga to overflow into the 55 ga, then down to the refugium, and ultimately back up to the 15 ga.  How much would I have to raise my tank in order to do this using a conventional overflow? <Oh... a few inches... depending on desired flow rate should do it. Know that the "transit volume" in the fifteen will now be additional to that of the 55 should power or pump fail... DO run all with the lowest/ten gallon not filled, turn off the pump/s, see where the water rises to below... drain till it's not overflowing, mark the sump/refugium level with a permanent marker, tape... and NOT fill the sump any higher>   I'm worried the water being able to drain down the hose and then back up it into the 55 ga without substantially raising it.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated and a big thank you to your staff which has gotten my tank to where it is today. Corey <Really wish you could add more volume underneath... do look into a container you can tie into the current refugium to take up the excess volume if you can't switch out the ten for something larger. Bob Fenner>

- Sump Water Level - WWM Crew, Thanks for maintaining this site.  I have a 60 gallon FOWLR and recently upgraded to a Mag 7 pump for the return from the wet/dry (from a RIO 1700). I notice that now the main tank is much more full relative to the sump than it was with the RIO.  In fact, its hard to get the sump to remain at the fill line recommendation.  Luckily the Mag 7 has a low intake so it hasn't been a problem.   Will this be a problem? <Have you added more water to the sump? The increased output of the new pump will put more water in transit between the sump and main tank which means a little top off in the sump may be in order.> The main tank is filled just about to the top, whereas before it had about 3/4" of room even if the sump was filled an inch or so over the fill line.  I have a 1" overflow (hang on). Is the Mag 7 just too much pump for the return? <Likely it is right at the maximum your hang-on overflow box can handle. Would suggest you purchase a second overflow to give you a margin for error. Even so, you can also put a ball valve on the output side of the pump and throttle it back a tad.> The LFS recommended the Mag 7 (the Rio 1700 died and I went in for a Mag 5 on a rush basis). Thanks. Jim <Cheers, J -- > - Sump Opinions - I recently bought an acrylic 65 gallon tank with built in overflow.  I am in the process of installing a sump and protein skimmer.  I am interested in the CPR Cyclone Bio-filter (CY194).  What is your opinion of this product? <CPR makes many high quality items, this sump among them.> Would I be better off purchasing a sump and a protein skimmer separately and fitting all the pieces together? <Personally, this is the way I would go, mostly because I like to select the equipment individually. Having "all in one" type components can limit your options when it comes time for an upgrade. Cheers, J -- > Repairing a hole in a sump When I recently tore down my tank I left a heater on in a small amount of water in the sump. It is acrylic, It burned a hole in the bottom and side with some bubbling of the acrylic.  I was wondering if I could cut out the affected area and glue some new plexi over the top of the cut out area.  It is a hidden sump so it doesn't matter what it looks like, just cost a lot so I would like to recover. Thanks, Mike <Actually, if the acrylic isn't too bubbled, you could just cut or have cut some small pieces of sheet (look in an acrylic outlets "bargain" box or ask for scraps, cut-offs...) and simply silicone them in place on the inside, over the holes, damaged area. Bob Fenner> About plumbing multiple sumps Hi :-) <Hello there> I think I've spent tens of hours researching your wonderful site- perhaps too long because I still don't have water in my tank!! Arrgg!! Lol  I appreciate all the ideas and help really.  You guys are wonderful. <Well, thank you> Oceanic 75g reef ready with one overflow(?" and 1" bulkheads both for drains) 2 sumps( awesome 30 gal(28"x18"x15"deep) heavy duty non-bowing Rubbermaid "strong boxes" rated for 500 lbs each! :-) Insert Tim Allen gorilla grunt here!) <Hee hee! I remember seeing a David Horowitz consumer show years back in which they tried the Rubbermaid ad of running a "Brute" (tm) trash can through a compacting trash truck... sure enough, it popped back (repeatedly) into useful shape/condition> Sump#1 (DSB, macro algae) Sump #2 (auto-top-off) 1" spa flex through wall down to sump #1 in separate fish room. <Hopefully not too far a "run" (distance), as the one inch diameter line really does not conduct that much water...> Connect sump#1 and #2???? With bulkheads and spa flex? <Could do...> 1" bulkhead in sump #2 for return (little Giant with 1" outlet) How do I connect these sumps? <IF they are at about the same level (height-wise), they can/could be interconnected with a good sized (like 1 1/2 or 2" inside diameter) thru-hulls and a section of rigid or flexible PVC pipe...> 1)   At what height do you recommend I drill the hole(s) for the bulkhead(s) between sumps? <Down at least four inches from the top... think about the issue of "transit volume" here... what amount of water will "seek its own level" if/when the pump/s are shut off? Can be calculated, but basically, the water from the upper/main tank is going to collect below in the event of power or pump failure... you don't want this water to overflow your sumps> 2)   What size and how many bulkheads? Do I need more than one in case of clogs? <A good plan to have more than one, though not necessary in general in this application if the one is of over-size and screened> 3)   Do I need to connect elbows to bulkheads to keep everything underwater to keep from sucking air like annoying overflow noise? <Not likely unless the pump/s are large flow-rate or the fitting/s too small or placed too high...> 4)   The water level in Sump #2 will always be lower than sump #1 ,right? <Yes... unless the pump/s are off.> Sump #2's water level would drop if not for auto top-off? <...Mmm, yes> Also, my skimmer is part of a combo wet/dry unit(CPR-192) 7 gallons.  This will sit on top of sump#1 on shelf.  Is it OK to drop a small pump into sump #1 to feed the CPR and let the CPR gravity feed back down to sump #1? <Yes> This is temporary- I'm saving for the Aqua-C skimmer- does the Aqua C have a certain water level it needs- should I take this into account when drilling the bulkheads in sump#1?? <Yes and a good plan... to either build/make a shelf to support the skimmer or a baffle/panel to back up the water to about the right depth/height in a dedicated part/section of sump #1> Thanks for any help you can give- maybe I'll actually get water in there soon :-) Sincerely, Jennifer <No rush... you are wise beyond most aquarists in figuring all this out "on paper" before cutting, dedicating funds. Bob Fenner>

Starting a sump Adam, thanks for all your info and Steve's new email address.  I've been running ideas back and forth with him on the setup of the 72 gal oceanic bow.  I still haven't purchased any equipment yet.  I'd like to ask you a few more questions:  regarding the setup of the refugium, I have a 30 gallon tank, if this would fit in the new stand do you think I can utilize it as a refugium? << Absolutely. >> If so, how would I hook it up to the main tank? << Well here is where good planning pays off.  You can buy at just about any local store now, pre-drilled tanks.  They have holes in the back or bottom and have plumping to drain to the sump.  Then you just have a pump in the sump to push the water back up.  Great way to go. >> I don't know the process of hooking it all together.  Is this feasible?  How do you connect the two systems? I know you suggested drilling the main tank, can you tell me what size holes/fittings would be best? << Better to just look at some tanks in your area.  Also, try visiting some local pet stores as the tanks are drilled and plumbed already. >>  Do you need two pumps, for this system; one to pump the water out of the main tank and into the refugium and another to pump the water back to the main tank? << Gravity feeds the sump, just one pump to push it back up. >> Do you need power heads in the refugium as well? << No. >> Also, Steve stated that he uses Reverse Osmosis water.  Is this a stand alone system that is only used with water changes, (and initial filling of the tank), or is it connected to the system in some way? << It is a separate item. >> Any info you could offer would help. All part of the learning process.  Thanks again, << I'd definitely read more and look at some tanks running in your area.  You need to see this in action and understand how it works before setting it up. >> Frank <<  Blundell  >>

Sump overflow rates Blundell, Got it!  Thanks again!  Oh, one more thing:  In setting up a sump should water going into the sump from the overflow of the main tank exactly match the gph of the pump pushing water back into the main tank? << Yes, I guess so.  It will automatically happen.  Basically what ever water is being pumped from the sump upward, will automatically be the volume of water going through an overflow and back to the sump.  So you don't have to try to control this. >> Thanks! Martin <<  Blundell  >> Sump questions Hi guys. << Blundell >> In my last letter I was telling you about my overflow problems. I had mentioned that my two corner over flows of 2" were not draining fast enough into the sump considering my two pumps that pull a total of 5100 gal. per hour. As you suggested I have drilled  additional holes in the back of the tank 2-1 1/2" plus 2-1" bulk heads with strainers.  The drains lead to a sump which measures 32x28x16"(28"x24" refugium). There is a dividing wall at 12"H, 8" from the left. My plan was for raw water to flow over the refugium and then into that small section where the pumps are hooked up. The problem was that only one pump could be turned on. I partially figured out the problem by turning the sump around, patching the holes and drilling two new ones on the other side of it. After all this I turned the pumps on and everything was running without emptying the sump. Only one problem I noticed is that the 2" drains where making a huge air sucking noise. What do you advise for that? << Hmmm, not sure if you can modify and Durso stand pipe, but you may want to search for that. >> Am I still going to need more bulkheads on the wall?  I was told by my supplier of bulkheads that the flow rate on a 2" 2000  g/h, 1 1/2"-1600 g/h, 1" -600 g/h. When a manufacturer rates these are they with water completely covering the holes or at half? << I'll say covering the holes.  I think this is a lot of trial and error.  If you turned the pumps on and the tank doesn't overflow, well then I guess you don't need more drains.  But I personally don't think you can ever have too many drain holes. >> How should I calculate the amount of bulkhead needed without the sucking noise? My other dilemma is that while I solved my sump problem I have lost  my  refugium space (I can't put sand) I could build a larger sump but they don't come cheap. I would like to keep it as this sump. << Not sure why this caused you to lose sump space? >> You say in your book that  20% of tank volume is good but 40% better for refugiums. Where is this going to all fit?. I guess the question is where is the refugium going to go now? << I'm not sure how big your tank is, but maybe you can consider a hand on refugium or a separate additional tank also added on. >>  Although I must tell you that I have an adjacent closet  for an above main tank refugium. Also what is your take on the stages involved in filtration? Is that true that live rock is the biggest and most important  stage of filtration? << Oh, without a doubt. >> Next could it be the protein skimmer? And last, the refugium? << Yeah, I'm not sure if I would say a refugium is more or less effective than a skimmer. >> Should I pay great attention to have the protein skimmer be the first to receive raw water or it should be the refugium? << Skimmer first. >> Can it be split (raw water distributed in both)? << Absolutely. >> As for the refugium I have bought Aragonite sand: *.8-1.2mm*. I plan to build a DSB of 6" in the refugium and 1" in the main display. Is this grain size good for both? << Yes, no problems. >> I read in your book about Gracilaria sp. and its benefit in the refugium. Can you tell me the steps to starting this type of refugium?  << Sump, with lights, and sand.  I think that is about it. >> How to acquire the algae, it's maintenance and up keep and  how much light. << Get some from a friend.  Or if you want to pay the big bucks try IPSF.com and I'd keep it in just a well lit tank.  Not too hard to get enough light for this stuff. >> If  were to build 2 refugiums which types would be best for my system? Is putting a DSB in both the main display and the refugium overkill? << No, deep sand everywhere is good. >> Thank you for  your great advises as always. << Good luck. >> Sincerely Stephan <<  Blundell  >> Basic sump set up Hi Bob, << Blundell. >> Boy am I fortunate to have found your site!  It is really a big help for me.  I'm just getting back into keeping marine aquariums after about a 30 year break to go to school, get married, have kids, etc...and I must say times have indeed changed!  Back then the only filter I had to worry about was an undergravel filter and maybe a diatom filter.  Now there are so many new terms to learn!  I was looking at some of my old books and they are so thin compared to your book which I recently ordered from Amazon. Anyway to my questions.  Hope you don't mind if they don't deal with any specific topic.  I'm just trying to fill in the blanks from what I thought I used to know. I'm presently building a 120 gallon glass tank which I plan to turn into a reef tank and am planning to use my 30 gallon tank as either a sump, a refugium or both. << Both. >> 1a.    What is a sump and what is a refugium?       b.    Are these the same thing?   c.    Can I make my 30 gallon tank into one or both? << A sump is the separate tank below the main display tank.  Most people make this into a tank filled with macro algae and live rock.  That is a refugium.  So, the best kind of sump (if you ask me) is the sump that is being used as a refugium.  I would say using a 30 gal tank is a great idea. >>   d.    How would I do that?  Would appreciate a "cookbook" approach if you would be so kind as to give me one. << Too tough to explain here.  I'm sure you can find pics and online help.  Try searching at www.utahrees.com/forum and also just reading around.  Basically, you have the tank overflow into the sump, and then have a pump push the water back up to the main tank.  It gets complicated with internal vs. external pumps and whether or not the tank is pre-drilled.  I'll be visiting a local store can also help to see one in action. >>   e.    What equipment would I need to buy to get this set-up. << Tank, pump, overflow. >>   f.    I saw the article dealing with reef set-up but I am having trouble tailoring it for the equipment that I have.  For example I don't know what a "Bell Valve", "Union" and "Sponge filter" is? << Ball valve and union are used so that you can take the pump out and clean it.  Otherwise once you set up your sump, your pump is hooked to the plumbing and is stuck there.  The ball valve stops the water from running out of the pipe, while the union allows you to remove that piece of pipe to get the pump out. >>  Please help me figure out what these are and how, if any, I can use them given the existing components that I have. 2a.    What other equipment aside from the ones I need to set up a sump/refugium would I need to get?  I have a Remora skimmer on order and a Fluval 304 canister filter which I am using on my 30 gallon tank. << Those are fine. >> Your site is a great help and I hope you can help get me started again in this wonderful and tremendous hobby. << I highly advise you to see some other tanks in your area (local aquarium club?) and to visit some local pet stores. >> Thank you in advance! Martin Wong <<  Blundell  >> Sump questions for a 55 gal Hello, First, The Conscientious Marine Aquarist is great.  It's done more to keep my fish alive than anything else. Next, I'm about to acquire a 55gallon 'tall' tank 30long x18wide x24high.  This system will come with a sump that needs a replacement pump.  I would like to have some nice reefs (no SPS, since I don't think this is a good set-up for them) and 5-10 small (less than 4 inch) fish. << Closer to 5 I would say. >>   So... (1) I really want to get a good pump with enough power to support reefs but it's most important that the pump be as quite as possible. << You need to decide if you want internal or external. >>  Do you know of any good quiet candidates? (2) I'm thinking of dumping the bioballs (but not the mechanical filtration sponges) and turning the sump into a refugium. << I definitely recommend doing this.  >>  My LFS told me that a regular outdoor light bulb, a low heat, imitation-sun spectrum variety, would be enough to support a sand bed, live rock and macro-algae in the refugium. Do you agree? << Yep, I like the Lights of America light fixtures at Home Depot for about $40. >> (3) From what I've read Caulerpa (sp?) is a good and hearty macro, do you have a preference? << Caulerpa taxifolia, Caulerpa serrulata, Caulerpa sertularoides. >> I also plan on running the refugium lights on an opposing schedule to the main tank, do you have any reservations about a complimentary light schedule like that? << I like reverse daylight systems. >> (4) If my tank and my refugium both have deep sand beds (4" in tank 5" in refugium) and I have at least 70lbs of live rock between the main tank and refugium, along with the macro-algae, a cleaning crew and bi-weekly 10% water changes will I still need a protein skimmer? << It all depends on if you feed your tank, and how much you feed. >>  My LFS recommended getting one and running it for two weeks out of six. << Not a bad idea. >> (5) If the system I've describe calls for a skimmer is there anything I can change so that I don't need a skimmer? << Feed less food, have fewer fish. >> (6) I've toyed with the idea of turning a 27 gallon tank that I have into the refugium for the 55 gallon display tank.  Would that change any of your answers? << All sounds good. >> Thanks, Eugenio Z. <<  Blundell  >>

Rubbermaid Refugium Bowing - 10/4/2004 Dear Crew: I have recently purchased a 40 gallon storage tub to use as a refugium. I have filled it a few inches from the top and my wife is concerned. Basically, the water is trying to make the rectangular tub become round by bowing considerably on the long sides.  I am not as concerned as my wife, because I see this container as being made of "one-piece" construction so there are no seams to break.  Before I continue, I just want to check in with you folks.  First, is this normal? <Yes> Can there be too much bowing for these types of rectangular plastic containers? <Not if filled with water... perhaps Mercury would be problematical... but you're fine> Has anyone heard of these things bursting? <Never> Am I crazy?  Wait, don't answer that last one!  Thanks, Rich <Hee hee! Be chatting. Bob Fenner>

Re: Rubbermaid Refugium Bowing - 10/4/2004 Bob: Wow, thanks, that was fast!  I don't remember which came first for me, CMA or your Website, but thank you for it all (insert new book release date here ;))  Rich   <Antoine and I are working semi-diligently on a couple of volumes in the Natural Marine Aquarium series... these two on Marine Fishes... next one out hopefully w/in six months. Cheers, Bob F>

Glue, acrylic, sump design, construction Hope I won't bother you with that question. I'd like to use sheets of acrylic (1/4") to divide a glass aquarium used as a sump. Is it really safe? <Yes> what kind of glue is the right choice? <Best to use 100% Silicone... and even better to make slotted areas by adhering strips or square dowels of acrylic so you can easily remove (lift out) the acrylic panels> Can I design the tank so that I can isolate the return pump out of the water in the glass tank? <Yes... by drilling the tank most likely, and using a through-hull aka bulk-head fitting to join with the threaded pump volute.> Thanks in advance for your kindness Didier Champauzac <Do have someone, perhaps a LFS employee or service company person, or an "advanced" aquarist from a local club help you with the design, execution of this project. Bob Fenner>

Sumps for Beginners Is it possible to use a 20-30 gallon tank for a sump? I've looked on your site but can't find any information on how to do it. If you could point me in the right direction that would be great. does a big tank really need a sump? <Yes, it's very easy to make a small, cheap tank into a sump.  I'd recommend using two bulkheads, one in (one inch) and one out (3/4 or half).  It's important to have a larger in than out.  I'd also install some baffles to reduce bubble problems.  Check out ozreef.org for some easy DIY plans to steal ideas!  Good luck, Ryan> A sump design question Hi Guys, I want to start a FOWLR saltwater tank.  The display tank is 55gal long and I just purchased a 20 gallon long glass tank to make into my sump. My question is how would you design the space inside the sump.  How many baffles and such. How is your sump designed and why? <Good question... would take a few to several pages to answer completely... size of sump, possibility of locating peripheral gear like skimmer/s, heater/s there, the issue of having a live (refugium) component, lighting, electrical, timers... Baffles are a good idea, particularly to back up water for devices like skimmers, enclosed contactors that rely on such for continuous optimal service... But this space is too small, and time to short to try answering completely. Please delve through the archived FAQs files on WWM re sumps AND refugiums, starting here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/sumprffiltfaqs.htm and do take a look over the many materials on Ozreef.org re such DIY projects. Oh, and if you'd like to pen an article, series on these devices, do take photographs, make drawings, and I will help you sell your work to the online and print 'zines. Bob Fenner> Any advice is GREATLY appreciated. Joe

Adding a sump to a 90 gal Hi WetWeb, << Hi James. >>    It goes without saying, but you have an excellent site.   I have a 90 gallon reef tank, with a 20 gallon tank as a sump.  My tank is  against a wall, and I have an area in the adjacent room that I can dedicate to  upgrading.      My hope is to add at least a 30 gallon tank as a lighted  refugium, with a 30 gallon rubbish container circulating water to it via  powerheads. My main problem is getting the water to the second refugium.   My tank has been set up for 8 months, and I want to disturb it as little as  possible( read lazy-:)). I also want to replace my 4 powerheads with a  continuous plumbed "ball and socket" system lining the rim of the tank, with a  1400 gph or so pump.     Would you advise a siphon overflow? << With an overflow box, yes.  Without one, NEVER.  The worst thing you can have is a continuous siphon system.  But there are now some really nice overflow boxes you can get at stores that do quite well. >>  Would drilling  a hole for a one inch bulkhead at the top provide enough water? << Probably, and that is a great idea.... but difficult to do with your tank already running. >>     My ultimate plan is to add more water volume, and have  an area where I can top off the tank and do water changes and mix water.   Any thoughts or ideas would be helpful, but I am mostly stuck on getting about  1400 gph out of the existing tank.  << I like having refugiums above the tank.  Or at least having them run from one to another below the tank.  That second option allows you to have one drain line to run multiple sumps.  Good planning with your plumbing is worth spending lots of time on. >> James Carey Wilmington, MA <<  Blundell  >>   

Dump The Sump? (System Design) Hi guys <Hi there! Scott F. your guy today!> Been browsing the site. Loads of great information, the only problem with that is I can't figure out what's best for me!! <I can certainly relate to that predicament!> I'm setting up a 7 foot reef tank and don't particularly like the idea of a sump. I have these recurring nightmares of a pump failing and it all going horribly wrong! <I used to have those nightmares, too- but a properly sized sump/pump/overflow will be able to handle the "drain down" from your display with room to spare, even in a total power failure (generally the only time you have to worry about this type of problem)...All part of the design phase. Do consult a professional in your area if you have concerns about doing it yourself> The tank will be placed in a space 9 foot wide so there is a couple of foot of space to play with to the side of the tank. Would it be possible to house the skimmer and other equipment free standing at the side without any problems? <Sure. Lots of hobbyists do that. However, in my opinion, well-designed sump gives you the flexibility to both hide unattractive elements of the system (such as the skimmer, heaters, etc.), and lets you accomplish lots of filtration processes (biological, chemical, etc.) and diversity enhancements (like cultivating macroalgae and copepods) in a dedicated area.> Is there a skimmer you would recommend? <I am a big fan of Euroreef, Aqua C, and- in Europe- Deltec.> I have also seen somewhere like a secondary tank that is to the side of the main aquarium that houses the heater, filter material etc. - would this work and how? <If it looks like a sump, acts like a sump, than it's a sump! Call it what you want- but that's what you're talking about. It's just that you are locating it besides the tank rather than beneath it. Tunze makes systems like that. Again- I'd encourage you to go with the tried-and-true under the tank configuration, if it can be safely worked into your design. Consult a local fish store, aquarium service, or-best of all- a fellow hobbyist. There are many do-it-yourself websites with great information on sump design and planning (such as my fave- OzReef).> I would also welcome your advice on how many fish a tank this size would accommodate. <Well, it really depends on the ultimate size of the fish, the type of animals you want to keep, etc. I would imagine that a tank 7 feet in length would have a capacity of at least 150-180 US gallons, probably more. If you are properly filtering the system, and employing good husbandry techniques, you could accommodate a good number of small fishes, such as damsels, blennies, etc., or several larger fishes (such as Tangs, angels, etc.). Again- it really depends on what your goals are for the system. Ask yourself what kinds of animals you intend to keep, research their requirements, and design the system around their needs. All of the most successful systems I have ever seen or built were conceived in this manner. It's really one of the most enjoyable parts of the hobby!> Thanks in anticipation of your expert help!! Lucian Burlingame Glasgow, Scotland <Our Crew is ready to help whenever you need us, Lucian. I hope that I gave you a little "food for thought" here. Good luck! Regards, Scott F>