4 or 5 tangs in a 65?.....how 9/23/08
Dear Crew,
<Robin>
Where I get my pedicures has a 65 gal. tank with at least 4 maybe 5 tangs in it and various other fish. I have been going there for the last 2 years and the tank seems stable. The fish look fat and healthy and all seem to get along. It has a tremendous amount of live rock. My question is, aside from the tang police and the fact that this is not an ideal situation for the fish, how do they do this?
<Psychologically/territorially? From overcrowding... Physiologically/metabolically, likely from over-sized filtration, circulation, aeration and good maintenance>
I had one tang in a 75 with 4 other modest sized fish and could not keep my nitrates down. How is this tank possible?
<They may have high nitrate... as a "stand alone" variable, can be relatively unimportant>
I do not now the specs. on they tank, its possible (probable) that there is a small sump under the stand, but it could not be much as the stand is not very big. But even with that I just do not see how this guy does this in a 65 bowfront. He is oriental or Japanese and I know they sent their tanks up differently, but still??? If he can do this why do we all seem to have so much trouble with various algae problems and disease?
<Good nutrition, large, frequent water changes...>
Is all the
live rock the secret?
<Certainly helps>
Where can I find out more info?
<Maybe look to the book by Wayne Shang: http://wetwebmedia.com/capmaraqbkrev.htm
I looked on the web but did not have any luck. Don't get me wrong I don't condone I just don't understand how its possible.
<Can be done... with provisos. Bob Fenner>

Compatibility, Tangs in a Large Tank 5/27/08
Hello......I am just wondering is a powder blue and Achilles tang would be fine together in a 12x3x3 ft system 807 gallons.
<I don't think I would try to combine these two difficult Acanthurus, even in this large of a tank. One or the other in my opinion.>
Also will golden butterflyfish be fine in this.
<Most likely yes, although they are known to feed on corals if this is a concern.>
Can you suggest how many gbs I should add.
<Could go up to 3 I think, but do well alone too.>
Can 3 purple tangs and 2 yellows be fine together in this tank.
<Most likely would be fine.>
<Chris>

Acanthurus japonicus and the Hippo, 3/22/08
Hello All,
<Frank>
Your site is great, and you've always helped me out before. I was thinking of adding one more fish to complete my fish portion of stocking my tank. Currently my main tank is a 125G (6ft) with a 46G sump/refugium. I currently have a 4" DSB and 65lbs of live rock. I have a few small fish and wanted to add the White-Cheek Tang to this system. My only concerns is how he will react to my Blue Hippo Tang. I've had my Blue Hippo for over 5 months and he's a tad over 3". The White-Cheek at the LFS I'm interested in is about 4-4.5". What are the chances of conflict?
<Small... given the size/shape of your system and relative sizes of the tangs>
The LFS said I would be better off adding a Yellow or Purple Tang with my Blue Hippo to be safe. What would you recommend. Thank you
Frank
<The choice is up to you... but I would only add one of these. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Small hippo with larger yellow  3/9/08
Dear WWM crew, if Andrew is the one answering this than I know it is the right answer but I think that anyone could answer this. I have a blue hippo tang that is about one and a half to two inches long. I would like to add a larger yellow tang (about 3 to 5 inches) today. in a month I am upgrading to a 90 gallon but I could really use that tang now. I was just wondering if a yellow tang that is larger will harm my blue hippo tang. thanks
<Will very likely get along... as the size difference and being of different genera, body morphology works to advantage. Bob Fenner>

More Than One Tang
Damsels as "Dither Fishes"
Good morning,
<Hey there! Scott F. in today!>
I usually rely on your website for a source of information... but also have Bob's book by the TV to peruse during commercials.
<Good for you, bad for the advertisers!>
In Bob's book I noticed something that I haven't seen on the website... a comment about adding a school of damsels or Chromis to reduce aggression in a tank.
My current inhabitants of my 200g tank / 50g sump / 210lbs liverock:
1x Medium/Large Snowflake Moray Eel
1x 5" Magnificent Foxface
1x 5" Harlequin Tuskfish
My wish list in the order of introduction would be:
1x Tang
1x small Picasso Trigger
1x Angelfish (species to be determined but one that would not grow beyond 10" at adult stage).
<OK- a crowd that needs space...I would think about limiting my stocking list to those fishes...>
I like Tangs, and ideally would like to add two. I've read many of the FAQ's regarding Tang conflict... but then again read just as many stories of people with two or three Tang's that are compatible. I like the Regal Tang... but now that I've seen a Kole Tang in action... am thinking that a Kole Tang or Chevron would do wonders for my 200g tank algae issue. Would two Tangs fit in to my system without overstocking my tank?
<I think you could only do two of the smaller ones (like the Ctenochaetus species. Even then, I would be hesitant in a system stocked like yours.>
What are a few pairs you could recommend that would LIKELY fair well together and with my stock?
<Maybe the Yellow Tang or a Kole Tang>
Can you expand on this idea of introducing damsels/Chromis to distract and reduce tension among the larger fish? If I was to go with the aforementioned fish list with the second Tang, could my tank handle a small school of Damsels? Chromis? What would you suggest? 3?? 5??
<Odd numbers definitely work best, IMO. This will provide both sufficient damsels to diffuse aggression, as well as to discourage the damsels from picking each other apart!>
I'd stick to the smaller species and away from the Sergeant Majors, etc. What are some good schooling fish that are small, feisty, and alert. I did have two blue yellow-tailed damsels in with my Snowflake Moray for 3 months and he left them alone. I'm very much intrigued at this idea... please tell me more :)
Dave
<Well, Dave, the species that you selected are quite useful for this purpose. I would take into account the fact that they are beautiful and interesting fishes in their own right; I really like them for color and behavior. Their activities can draw out shy fishes, and help diffuse aggression in an established system. Remember, they can also become victims of aggressive fishes like the Tusk or the Trigger, so do show some compassion for them when working them into your stocking scheme! Best of luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Re: More Than One Tang
Damsels as "Dither Fishes" (cont'd.)  12/24/07
Thanks...
<Glad to be of service!>
So, add Tang, Trigger, Angel... and I'm done. Would 3x Yellow-tailed blue damsels work in with this and I leave the second Tang out of the picture?
<I'd think that this would be a sound strategy.>
I'm thinking that the 3x damsels would actually assist in keeping the tank clean by going after the food scraps/leftovers leaving less waste?
<I suppose you could make that case, but in the end, they are still active eaters, and consume lots of food, so I suppose the case could be made that they will eat much of the uneaten food in the system. However, they will, of course, metabolize the food and produce waste!> I imagine the Trigger is somewhat messy as the Snowflake most certainly is...
and the Tuskfish doesn't have the best of table manners either. Or bad idea for 3 damsels with the Trigger? My single Yellow-tailed damsel that's currently in my 90gallon reef tank was actually housed with the Tuskfish before and was left alone.
Thanks again!
<Again, I'd add any smaller, potentially "edible" fishes with caution. The Tuskfish or Trigger could suddenly develop a "taste" for his/her tankmates at any time. Just look out for potential signs, like chasing or "stalking" behaviors, and be prepared to remove the Damsels for their own safety. Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>

2 tangs in a 75 gallon aquarium? 11/18/07
Hello crew,
<Hello Tony.>
I have a question regarding the addition of another fish to my reef aquarium. The aquarium is 75 gallons with a 75 gallon wet dry sump (30-40 gallons of which are partitioned into a refugium growing Chaeto and Gracilaria) and well over 100 lbs of live rock. The water parameters are as follows:
Spg: 1.024
Ph: 8.2
Nitrates: 0
Nitrites 0
Ammonia: 0
The only current inhabitants of the tank are a 2" yellow tang and some cleaner shrimp. I have waited one month since the acquisition of the yellow tang and am now ready to add another fish. I have read a lot about tangs on your site and can't seem to understand what the general consensus is as far as how many tangs one can have in a tank this size.
<It is about territoriality and the need Tangs have for swimming space. In some instances Tangs survive in smaller systems, it is just not what is best for the fish. The small quarters stress the fish and make them susceptible to all sorts of maladies.>
Some seem to think that a 75 gallon isn't even sufficient in the long run, while others have 4-5 tangs in 100-125 gallon systems.
I would like to add a Kole tang to my tank as my next fish but wanted to know your thoughts on this. I will be living in my current house for another 2 years or so and don't see myself upgrading to a bigger tank before then. The only other fish that I would definitely like to add are a mated pair of clowns and an anemone. Would a 75 gallon be sufficient for this? Thanks ahead of time for all your help and the wealth of knowledge that is available to aquarists because of your site.
Tony
<The Kole would be a better choice for your tank, but I would just wait until you can upgrade to the bigger tank. I understand there are many conflicting and confusing accounts on tank size for Tangs. It is much like keeping a Mandarin in a 30 gal tank that has survived for six months. Just because it works for a while doesn’t necessarily entail that everything going ok. Could you imagine five full grown Tangs in a 100 gallon tank? Yikes! Your tank would be big enough for appropriate anemones and clowns. I hope this helps you, thank you for all the kind words, Scott V.>

Family/Congener Compatibility: Rabbits, Wrasses & Surgeons 10/27/07
Hello Crew-person! A preliminary "thanks!" for giving this one some thought.
<Howdy, and just as timely welcome>
I am currently in the process of putting together a 180 gal. FOWLR w/DSB, refugium, and all the usual hardware. I've maintained marine systems for about 8 years now and have kept most of the following species at one time or another but want to further investigate their family/congener compatibility in a larger system:
<I see>
First, I have never mixed Rabbit species and have heard that doing so could promote mild warfare. I currently have a 6-inch One-spot Foxface Rabbit (Siganus Lo unimaculatus) that will be bumped up to the 180 and want to introduce a Magnificent Rabbitfish (Siganus magnificus) concurrently. Is this possible given the tank size? Should the S. magnificus be of different size? Thoughts?
<Mmm, let's see... a couple of general statements. I have seen mixed species of Siganids "passing" each other in the wild many times... Some of the schooling species occasionally blended together in good numbers... Have never come upon open aggression w/in the family on the reef either... I don't think you will have trouble here... but if you do, you will see this happening... fins erect, bodies at an angle... them obviously avoiding each other...>
Next, I'm a nut for the Labroides.
<Mmm, from below... not the genus of Cleaners, but the family of wrasses... Labrids>
Once again, given the somewhat larger confines, could I house 3 Wrasse species, each from a different genus? I have in mind an Ornate Wrasse (Halichoeres ornatissimus), a male/female pair of the Cortez Rainbow Wrasse (Thalassoma lucasanum), and a Cuban Hogfish (Bodianus pulchellus) - (they will probably spend the first few hours trying to figure out why they've never seen anything that looked like that before!!).
<These also should be fine together>
Finally, the next subject family is the Acanthurids, specifically the Powder-brown Tang (Acanthurus japonicus) and the Chevron Tang (Ctenochaetus hawaiiensis). I would not anticipate any problems here.... suggestions?
<No worries>
Thanks again, my friends.
David A. Bell
<Hello David! Bob Fenner>

Order of addition, Tangs  9/5/07
Hello crew and thanks again for all the great information. I currently have a 125g FOWLR containing about 100 lbs live rock, a Flame Angel (3") and an Assasi Triggerfish (4"). I have in a QT a White Cheek Tang (4") and will pick up a Tomini Tang that will be placed in a separate QT later this week. At the end of the QT (6 weeks for the White Cheek and 4 weeks for the Tomini), I was planning to add both fish at the same time to the main tank. The question is should I add them at the same time or is there some level of aggression given the mix of fish that I should consider staggering their addition? Thanks again.
<Mmm, there is likely to be some posturing, tail-swiping here, but I'd likely place both these at the same time... if not the Ctenochaetus ahead of the Acanthurus. Bob Fenner>

Powder Blue Tang And Yellow Eyed Tang/Compatibility 9/3/07
I have a 100g Reef Tank that is 6 feet long with 150 lbs of live rock and a DSB. I have 2 False Percs, a Starry Blenny, and just added two 4-5" Tangs. Those being the Powder Blue Tang and the Yellow Eyed Tang. I read as much as I could before purchasing and picked these two since they are in two different families and two different colors. They are semi close in size the Powder Blue being slightly larger. I made sure both of them ate well at the LFS before purchasing. Then I went to add them at the same time as had read that it helps to alleviate territory issues.
<With the Powder Blue in question, it would have been much better to add the Yellow Eye Tang first, then a couple of weeks later add the Powder Blue. Even with that scenario, Powder Blue's tend to be very aggressive toward other tangs and will become dominant as you mention. If I were to have a Powder Blue, it would be the only tang in the tank.>
I know that no matter what Tang it is that personality is a major factor in the acclimation. I drip acclimated them for about 2 1/2-3 hours. Fed the residents before introducing. Turned off the lights and placed the
fish into the tank. Left the lights out for the rest of the day and night. In the morning the powder blue was wandering the tank with a look of a happy puppy. No issues with the two clowns. However tended to do light chases with the Starry blenny. Fortunately for the blenny he hasn't been super intimidated and was the first fish in the tank and knows every hole in the live rock. The Powder hasn't been super aggressive but simply does a light chase on the blenny.
Sorry to go on and I will try to get to my point of question. The Yellow Eyed tang was being very tentative and was hiding back behind the live rock. I thought this was in fear of the Powder Blue initially. I would see the Powder Blue in his travels go back into the area that the Yellow Eye was at and while the Powder wouldn't attack he would do a shake and shimmer next to him. I know this is a symbol of aggression or attempt to create dominance. The Yellow Eye would retreat.
<Sounds like typical behavior of a healthy Powder Blue, they will challenge other tangs. If it were me, I'd see if you can return one or the other to your LFS. I believe your Yellow Eye is going to have a difficult time feeding with the Powder Blue present.>
I had to go to work and as I left the room the Yellow Eye began to swim outward and investigate. My guess is he was intimidated by me. However the Powder did give him a very light chase. My question is this. I realize you cannot tell me exactly whether the situation will work itself out because the personality plays such an important role. I was wondering however if my description of the level of aggression implies just sorting out dominance or if this seems more a prelude to higher aggression.
<You are just looking at normal behavior of a Powder Blue.>
My personal thought is that the yellow eye might perk up a little bit after adjusting to the new tank and perhaps they can balance themselves out. Right now it seems that the Powder Blue adjusted to our presence and has been happy and sees the Yellow eye not being nearly as bold and is taking advantage of this to be the alpha of the tank. However since I have never introduced multiple tangs I didn't know if there was a typical sort out behavior or not. Any info on their initial behavior would be welcome. Thanks again and I love reading your responses and your site is very helpful.
<Steven, do read here and linked files above on the Powder Blue. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/powdbluetg.htm
James (Salty Dog)>
Sincerely,
Steven

Re: Powder Blue And Yellow Eyed Tang/Compatibility 9/5/07
Thank you for your reply.
<You're welcome.>
While I was at work yesterday I contemplated perhaps actually returning the Powder Blue, since the Yellow Eye would be an overall healthier and less aggressive tankmate.
<True, and would be a good decision.>
When I got home I saw the Yellow Eye and the Powder Blue eating coral off the same rock side by side.
<Eating coral??>
I then did something that I thought would be helpful but wound up being stupid. I then added dried seaweed to a feeder clip in the tank. Unfortunately the floating seaweed spooked the two tangs and the Powder gave a little chase to the Yellow Eye and they both hid. So I turned off the lights hoping that they would normalize to the floating seaweed. I am going to give this acclimation some more time unless I see either fish have higher stress. Since I see them both eating.
<OK>
Thank you,
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Steven

Re: Powder Blue And Yellow Eyed Tang/Compatibility 9/6/07
James,
<Steven>
Sorry for a little confusion I haven't gotten much sleep due to our baby boy thinking sleep is an unnecessary evil. They were eating algae <algae> off the live rock not the coral. I took your good advice and removed the Powder Blue and I put some cheato <Chaeto> from my refugium and put it in a clip since it will appear more natural and less threatening than the seaweed. I truly do appreciate your advice.
<You're welcome, and a good move. James (Salty Dog)>
Steven

Hippo Tang In a 75g Tank With a Purple Tang?...Nope, Not Even On Its Own – 07/25/07
Hi,
<<Hello Jim>>
I have a 75-gallon tank with 90-lbs of live rock. It currently has a Purple Tang, a Flame Hawkfish, and an Ocellaris Clown. Would I be able to add a Hippo Tang to this mix in this aquarium and not have constant fighting?
<<Mmm, nope...not so much due to the possibility of “fighting” but rather due to the “size” of this system and the developmental retardation that would be imposed on this large and robust fish. The Hippo Tang needs a MUCH larger system for development/long-term health. In fact, I am hesitant to recommend “any” additional Tangs species be added to this tank as it is at the bottom-end of what I consider adequate for the “smaller” tang species >>
Thanks for your help,
Jim
<<I know it’s not what you want to hear, but I hope it proves helpful. EricR>>

Tang Compatibility...Wanting To Add One More! – 07/23/07
Hello and thanks for all the useful information!
<<Hiya Michele!...glad you find it “useful”>>
I love reading the dailies.
<<Me too! [grin]>>
I had a quick question on compatibility. We have a 220-gallon (6' x 2 1/2' x 2') mixed reef (predominately SPS with a few LPS and zoos), 200-pound live rock, 1-2 inch sand bed, 75-gallon sump and 50-gallon fuge.
<<Excellent>>
The fish include a Naso tang (7''), yellow tang (4''), two-barred rabbitfish (4''), and a pair of Clarkii clowns (1-2").
<<Very nice...I have a somewhat larger system though very similar (minus the zoanthids) and among others I too have a Naso Tang (Blonde color morph), a Yellow Tang, and a “pair” of two-barred (Siganus doliatus) Rabbitfish>>
All fish have lived peacefully together for over a year except the rabbitfish which was added about six months ago.
<<I see>>
The two tangs and the rabbitfish show no aggression toward each other and even appear to shoal together.
<<Ah yes, not so much “shoaling” as just making sure one doesn’t get something the others don’t [grin]. As for the aggression...providing a couple hundred gallons volume is very helpful...and the Naso and Zebrasoma species are also somewhat on the lower end of the Tang “aggression meter” in my opinion>>
Even at feeding times and when Nori sheets are present, there is no aggression.
<<Agreed...though they do become “excited”>>
So onto the question....we would like to add one more fish, but do not want to lose our peaceful reef or push the stocking limits.
<<Understood...and wise>>
Would we be pushing it with another tang from a different genus?
<<Depends>>
My husband would love a Sohal tang, but I am worried about the aggression factor as it ages.
<<Definitely an “alpha” personality among Tangs>>
Plus, even though it's a different genus, it looks a lot like the Naso tang to me. Do you even think we have room (psychologically and bioload) for another tang and if so, which one would you recommend?
<<Ahh...I’m glad you recognize the “psychological” issues here...so important to Tang health/longevity in my opinion. A smaller more peaceable (as Tangs go) species is doable I think... Acanthurus japonicus (NOT to be confused with A. nigricans) or maybe a Ctenochaetus species like C. tominiensis or C. strigosus>>
Then, with the infamous "just one more fish," would we have room for a Scott's Fairy Wrasse down the line (with QT on all new arrivals)?
<<If you can acquire a healthy/feeding specimen...though they are prone to jumping>>
We had also considered a shrimp goby and pistol shrimp combo, but did not think the 1 inch sand bed would suffice.
<<Not the best>>
Thanks!
<<Regards, EricR>>

Re: Tang Compatibility...Wanting To Add One More! – 07/24/07
EricR,
<<Hello Michele>>
Thanks for the reply!
<<Quite welcome>>
We suspected the Sohal would not be appropriate.
<<Indeed so...in my opinion>>
My vote had been for a Blue Tang (Acanthurus coeruleus) or a Regal Tang (Paracanthurus hepatus), but we will look at the Acanthurus japonicus that you suggested.
<<Hmm...though a bit larger than A. japonicus, you could probably get away with adding A. coeruleus>>
It's funny....my husband actually almost came home with one last week, but we were concerned we could not differentiate the white faced from the powder brown and we didn't trust the LFS.
<<I see... Do take a look at this article for comparison, both fishes are featured and the differences in appearance is readily apparent: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/GoldRimSs.htm >>
Just to take all temptation away and stop a crazy purchase, you better spell it out to me that the Atlantic Blue and the Regal are also not appropriate! =)
<<I would avoid A. hepatus... This is a big, beefy, and high strung fish requiring LOTS of space for long-term health. My first choice for your system would be the A. japonicus, but as stated, I do think you can get away with the A. coeruleus...though this last will likely mean “no more fishes” for this system>>
Thanks as always for the help!
Michele
<<A pleasure to assist. Eric Russell>>

Aggressive Yellow Tang 7/18/07
Hi,
<Hello>
I'm new to the whole salt water aquarium scene. My yellow tang for some reason has recently become very aggressive toward all of the fish in my tank. I normally feed them plenty and add seaweed for them to pick on, but he has been either chasing or nipping at the other fishes tails. <Could be territorial, how big is the tank?.> It's odd because I've had all of the same fish in the tank for about a month or so and this all started recently. <Takes them a while to get settled, then they will start asserting themselves.> Also, I have a blue spot Jawfish and he's also acting weird. He is not in a burrow... he is actually around with all of the other fish and his eyes look cloudy. What can I do?
<Check your water parameters, may be the cause of the cloudy eyes.>
Thank you,
Billy Negron
<Tangs can be quite aggressive and territorial, especially if the tank is too small for them. Be careful when putting your hands in the tank, you may be the victim of the aggression and those tail spines can do significant damage.>
<Chris>

Maroon Clown Question, Tank Full of Tangs 6/29/07
Good day everyone:
<Hello>
First I would like to thank you for a great site. <Welcome from all of us.>
I am fairly new to the hobby (since Feb07), your site has been very useful. My tank is a 90G, LR/LS, wet/dry, skimmer, UV, MH lighting. currently have Hippo <not appropriate for this sized tank>, Sailfin, 2 hawk, 5-chromis, various Shrimp/Crabs/Snail, 6 corals. I am picking up a yellow tang and a purple tang today. <You are heading towards WWIII I think, I would not have more than 1 tang in this sized tank, either the sailfin, yellow, or purple> additionally, which is my question, I put on hold a pair of yellow stripe maroon clowns (female about 3.5"), is it going to be a good idea to the clowns? or are they going to be too crowded in my tank? <Maybe after you sort out your tang situation and the tank gets a chance to mature the Maroons will be ok, but they are very aggressive and in a crowded tank will likely decimate their tankmates.>
Thank you in advance.
Ron, Miami
<Welcome>
<Chris>

Tangling With Tangs! – 06/28/07
Dear WWM Crew,
<Scott F. your Crew member today!>
I have a 160 g reef aquarium with plenty of LR, some corals and 3 anemones. I have one Yellow Tang, two Ocellaris Clownfish, 1 Foxface and 1 Firefish. In a separate QT I have 1 Blue Tang and 1 Flame Angel that will go to the MT in a few weeks. Is there going to be a problem between the Yellow tang that has been in the MT for the last 4 months and the new blue tang?
<In my experience with this combination, I have seen some initial "posturing" by the Tang in residence first, but things settled down quickly. They seem to occupy slightly different niches in captivity, with the Yellow Tang spending a lot of time picking at rocks, while the Blue Tang is more of an open water swimmer. You're pushing it with these fishes in regards to space, so no more fishes after these additions, and do think about a larger aquarium in the not-too-distant future. The Blue Tang gets very large and needs a LOT of space!>
Also I was thinking on buying a third tang (sailfin) but I don't know if this will represent an additional problem, specially if I quarantine this one with the Blue Tang and the Flame Angel before taking all of them to my MT.
<Please refrain from adding another Tang...Waaay too much in the Tang Department here! The Sailfin Tang, although one of my favorites, gets huge in the wild (like 12-15 inches- and I have seen them this large in the wild!) and will need a VERY large system (like 8" plus in length, and many hundreds of gallons) to live anything close to a normal lifespan in captivity. A wonderful fish, but cruel to keep in anything but the largest aquariums, IMO. Besides, having two Zebrasoma Tangs of different species in the same aquarium can be problematic, from an aggression standpoint. Aside from space issues, adding another fish to a quarantine tank that has fishes in the middle of their quarantine period is a bad practice, as you surmised, and simply resets the clock for the fishes already in there! In other words, if you add a new fish into the quarantine tank that has fishes that are 3 weeks into the 4 week quarantine period, you'll have to start all over again. Always finish out your quarantine period before adding new fishes.>
Your suggestions will be highly appreciated.
Thank you very much, Oscar
<Glad to be here for you, Oscar. Hope you enjoy much success! Regards, Scott F.>

Sohal Addition? – 5/4/07
Hi.
<Hello.>
Joe here.
<Adam on this end.>
Just wanted to say love your site.
<Me too! ...but thanks.>
Very informative and appreciate the time you guys spend answering questions. Thanks.
<No, thank you for the compliments.>
Ok on to my question.
<Of course.>
I'm thinking of adding a Sohal tang to my 220 gallon (72x24x30)with 75 sump(150 lbs of live rock). The current tank mate are a 14 inch Coral cat Shark, 8" lion (Volitans),12 inch snowflake eel and 3 tangs all about 6 inches (Naso ,yellow and hippo).
<Mmm...the existing surgeons fish have me worried...and the future aggression of the cat-shark as well, have seen them attack and consume fish twice their size.>
I would like to add a small Sohal around 4-6 inches do you see any problems with aggression towards the others?
<Yes, especially with the Naso and the other Acanthurus (Hippo) tang.>
If so any thing I should be on the look out for? Also in the future would like to add either an Emperor Angel or a Blue Face angel. Would you for see any problems?
<I would opt for one of these, not both.>
The tank is aquascaped so I  have lots of hiding caves as well as have maximum swimming room.
Thank you for your time and look forward to reading your response.
<Joe Sohal tangs are notoriously intolerant of other tangs even tanks of 100's to 1000's of gallons for that reason alone I can't recommend it, sorry..>
Joe
<Adam J.>

Tang's A Lot! - 4-11-07
Hi WWM
<Hi Kris>
I have a question that relates to a problem I recently had. A friend of mine came down on orders for deployment. His wife was supposed to care for his fish while he was gone. Well, today she showed up at my house with, get this, a hippo blue tang <blue hippo tang>, yellow tang, and a Naso tang. <Yikes!> She said that they were not doing well. I have a 90 gallon reef which is 48 x 24 x 18. It has two 2.5 inch gold striped m. clowns, a 6 line, and some of my more prized corals. I tried my LFS, but they will not accept these fish back due to the fact that they were not from my tank. Now I have 3 additional fish in my tank eating fine and getting along, but I know that my tank is too small, mainly because of the Naso and the 6 foot rule. <Not too sure about the maroon clowns liking all that extra company either!> Most of my friends have large predatory tanks <with fish(?)> that would definitely eat these guys so that’s a no go, and the other <others> have smaller tanks than me. By the way, the Naso is 3.0”, the blue 3.5”, and the yellow 3.0”. Here’s the problem, I'm getting deployed now in a couple of weeks and my wife and brother are going to be caring for the fish. I just picked up a 210 cherry with stand and canopy with four 400 watt MH 20 and 14ks.  It’s going to be my next reef tank, <Nice!> which <I> would not mind having these wonderful and beautiful fish in. I am still waiting on the stand, supposed to be here in 5 days. If it comes down to it, will they be fine for 6 months when I come home on r and r? Worse case scenario 1 year from now, because I don't think there is any way I will have this new tank cycled in 5 weeks.  I'm pretty sure it won't happen. I have a lot to do and running out of time. I'm on <at my(?)> wit’s end. My 90 gal reef’s filtration is twice on everything. Sump is a 55 gallon tank with 30g refugium built in, and custom skimmer is rated at 250 gallons. What do you think I can do about this? I really have no idea. Any help would be awesome. <Kris, considering your situation, I would recommend that you go with the most expedient and least stressful solution for you, your family, and the fish. That is, to check out your local fish/aquarium clubs and see if anyone can give these fish a good home. As you already know, your tank isn’t large enough to house these fish happily.  They may get along for a day, a week, or even a month, but all bets are off for them remaining stress and disease free for an extended period of time.  If you found a good home (or homes) for these fish, not only would you be giving them a much better chance at survival, you’d also be saving your wife and brother from a potentially difficult, and very stressful, situation.>
Thanks in advance.
Kris <You’re very welcome and best wishes! –Lynn>

Adding additional tang to mix w/ others?   3/15/07
What is the best way to add a black tang to a tank that already has a  yellow tang and a hippo tang in it?  Its a 120g with 150-225lbs of  LR.
<In all honesty I would not add another surgeon to this mix, with a tank of this size.  If you MUST, the best way is to remove the existing fish, and reorganize the tank (break up existing territories) then to reintroduce all 3 fish simultaneously.  As with anything in this hobby, there are no guarantees. Adam J.>

Re (Late): Tang Addition   3/19/07
Sending again, because I think it got lost in "cyberspace" :
<No sorry, I'm just a 20-something year old guy and it's spring break. Explanation enough? I think so.>
Hi Adam
<Hello again.>
and thank you for your reply.
<Welcome, and sorry again that this one is late.>
You thought that my 80 gallon reef tank would be "pushing it" (in the long-term) for an adult Copperband Butterfly, Coral Beauty (current occupants) AND a Tang (possible future occupant).
<Correct.>
The only other current occupant (aside from snails and hermits) in the tank is a Fridmani (not mentioned in previous e-mail).  
My questions are:  
1. Would/could you suggest another fish that would be compatible (not damsels or Chromis), if a tang is too big for my tank/current occupants?
<Cardinals are great in groups (though if you go that route, you want tank raised). Smaller wrasses (flasher/fairy) are wonderful additions. A goby/pistol shrimp pair would be fun to watch....endless options.>
2. You had mentioned "long-term," would that be months or years?
<A specific time-frame is hard to pinpoint but when I say long-term  I am referring to at least a year and/or longer. And it depends on the type of tang you would get and what size it already is when you buy it.>
I may get a larger or second tank in the future (would love to get one now, but juggling horses and saltwater fish kind of drains my pocketbook).
<I understand.>
If long-term is far enough into the future, could I get a Tang for the short-term and move him later?
<Depends on what type of tang.>
Thank you for your help - my fish and I appreciate it!
Deb
<Adam J.> 

Mixing Surgeons and Butterflies   3/15/07
Hi Guys (and/or Girls)!
<Hi Deb.>
I love your site and you guys provide a real service to aquarium enthusiasts and hobbyists!
<Thank you.>
I am so thankful that I stumbled across your site and I use it to research information all of the time.
<Great, thanks again.>
I have read a lot about Tangs not getting a long with other Tangs, but I have a slightly different question.
<Okay.>
I have a Copperband Butterfly in my 80 gallon reef tank along with a Coral Beauty.  The Copperband doesn't much care for flake or frozen food, but it will eat mussels/clams and it will also eat Mr. Fenner's seafood recipe (from his book), but for some reason she prefers to be hand-fed and doesn't like to eat food already floating in the water.
<Well I for one am pleased to here it's eating period. As I'm sure you are well aware most have a dismal survival rate, captivity wise.>
Perhaps I have created a monster!  LOL!
Anyway, I would like to add a Tang to my tank, if possible.
<If the butterfly and angel are the only specimens I don't see any space issues short-term, the long-term is a slightly different issue, 80 gallons is pushing it for an adult copperband and some surgeons/tangs get significantly larger. Psychological crowding is another issue...I would avoid conspecifics (tangs that look alike/similar shaped) such as those in the Zebrasoma genus.  Ctenochaetus tangs may be a possibility (the Kole tang) though due the key with these is securing a healthy specimen.  Many are damaged in the mouth area during shipping.  Again compatibility wise other tangs could work, such as a few in the Naso genus and Acanthurus genus but there are space issue to address...some of these (Acanthurus Sohal & Naso lituratus) will reach over a foot...well over a foot in some cases.>
I am concerned about one getting along with my Copperband and the fact that they get ick (I have a 10 gallon quarantine tank).  Can you suggest a
docile Tang?  I really like the Atlantic Blue Tang (coloring) and even the Yellow-Eyed Kole Tang.
<See above regarding the tang, as for ich/crypt, yes tangs are more prone to this, quarantine 6-8 weeks.>
Thanks for you help!
<Of course.>
Debbie Terry
<Adam J.>

Powder Blue / Powder Brown Compatibility   3/8/07
Hello,
<Hi there>
            I have an interesting situation on my hands.  I ordered a Acanthurus japonicus and a Zebrasoma desjardinii for my 90 gallon aquarium.  For the most part, my tank is an LPS specialty tank with an assortment of LPS corals and inverts… shrimp, crabs, feather dusters, etc.  The only other fish are a pair of Premnas biaculeatus.
<Hopefully small... can be/come quite territorial>
I didn’t plan on stocking any more fish other than these two tangs.  My problem is this… I received a Zebrasoma desjardinii (3 inch) and a HYPERLINK "http://www.wetwebmedia.com/powdbluetg.htm"Acanthurus leucosternon (4 inch).  I sent the company an email with pictures of the mistake and asked for a resolution.  I would not have ordinarily ordered a HYPERLINK "http://www.wetwebmedia.com/powdbluetg.htm "Acanthurus leucosternon, due to their poor survivability in captivity.
<I agree with you... Need much larger systems to do well... and are VERY prone to "coral reef disease">
I received an email back that I can keep the fish and that they would send me a Acanthurus japonicus and that it was in the mail already.  My problem:  there are no local LFS’s that will buy my Acanthurus leucosternon.  My local shop would be happy to take it, but not pay for it.
<Mmm, Craig's list? A local marine/reef club?>
Since I have this beautiful fish, I was wondering if there was any hope of survival in my aquarium.
<Some... but not enough to interest me... Hopefully you have not placed this fish in your main/display tank>
I consider a 90 a bit on the small size for 3 tangs, and never planned for it in the first place.  I also am aware that I will now have two fish of the Acanthurus genus together and figured that could be a problem.  Currently I have acclimated them all, freshwater dipped them, and they are split up in two separate quarantine tanks.
<Thank goodness>
If there was a good chance of survival, I would at least like to give it a try.  I am also concerned that if the fish goes to my local LFS, it may not make it out alive.  They have never kept any tangs other than the yellow tangs and usually have a few dead fish every time that I am there.  This would be the reason why I mail order everything.  Please advise, Brian
<Well... I would be investigating (seriously) where you might move the PBT to... in case things don't "work out"... The much more important, real issue here is parasitic disease... and the concomitant stress that will VERY likely bring it on. Be ready to remove, treat all fishes. Bob Fenner>

Sohal Addition to Multi-Surgeon Tank   3/1/07
Hello Crew,
<Hola.>
hope all is well.
<With you as well...>   
  I had a question for you guys.
<No problem.>
I have a 600 gallon aquarium that is 10FT long with multiple tangs which all seem to be getting along (the only real aggression is when the scopas chases the yellows which isn't very often)
<Normal between cohabiting Zebrasomas...as long as no physical injuries arise, no problem.>
and for my last tang I've been considering a Sohal
<A gorgeous but aggressive animal.>
(actually my wife is pressuring me more then anything ;) ).
<I see.>
I know that they can be quite aggressive but wanted to see real life experience in large tanks how would he do if being the last fish introduced, would he kill my other tangs or would he rough them up a little,
<Likely the latter, but the former is also a possibility...as I'm sure you have heard there are no guarantees in marine aquaria. Your chances are increased however by the size of the aquarium and the fact that the other animals are already established. In particular I am fearful though for the "congeners" the other Acanthurus animals. If you do add a Sohal I would ass a relatively smaller animal of 3-4".>
claim himself the king of the tank and leave them alone after that?
<Will definitely be the "alpha" eventually.>   
  Fish Currently in the tank are:
6" Palani Tang (Acanthurus Dussumieri)
7" Vlamingi Tang
4" Orange Shoulder Tang
5" Powder Blue Tang
7" Desjardini Sailfin Tang
Two 3" Yellow Tangs
3" Scopas Tang
Mated pair of Maroon Clowns
<Though a large tank, this is alot of livestock, would you be willing to part either the larger vlamingii or another Acanthurus or two?>  
The Sohal in question is 5".
<A little larger than I would like to see.>
  Thanks.
<Of course, Adam J.>

Mixing a Regal Tang (Paracanthurus hepatus) and Yellow Tang (Zebrasoma flavescens) in an Aquarium of Unknown Size.   2/12/07
<Greetings!>
Can I keep a regal tang with a yellow tang and a bi-color angel and a few damsels?  
<If your tank is as big as the ocean.  You would need a large tank to happily house these two fish.  By large I mean at least 135 gallons in which both fish are introduced at the same time if you want to avoid problems and even then you are at risk.  I would not recommend it.  
Hope that helps.  -Mich>  

Stocking Tangs   1/14/07
Hello Bob and Crew,
<Hello Bret, Mich here.>
The fish gods (and more importantly my wife) have smiled upon me and I am about to be the recipient of a 210G RR aquarium.  
<Lucky you!>
It will be several months before the system can be ready for fish, but I'm excited to start researching.  
<Most excellent!>
The current inhabitants of my 135 will be going in, along with
some larger fish that I have never really been able to consider keeping for the last 20 or so years I've been in the hobby.  I won't buy fish that will outgrow my aquarium because it is not likely I'll upgrade anytime soon, if ever.  
<Wonderful to hear this forethought.>
So with that in mind, here's what I am thinking.
My 135 is home to a pair of ocellaris clowns (the first salt-water fish I ever bought, about 6 years ago), a couple of small wrasses and a yellow tang.  
<Very nice that your first fish are still with you!>
I am considering adding to these fish a Purple Tang, a Powder Blue, and a Navarchus Angel.  My question is how to stock the tank.  I know the two Zebrasomas can be tricky, so I figured they should go in at the same time, or possibly the purple a few days earlier, since the yellow is only being moved about 40 feet.  
<No, Zebrasoma xanthurum is the most belligerent member of the species and should be the last fish introduced.>
I have heard different ideas on when a powder blue should go in, some say last as they are aggressive, some say first due to their fragile and disease prone nature.  
<You are planning on QT these fish correct?>   
Lastly, the navarchus is obviously a delicate specimen as well, and I'd like to add him first, but I'd like to have the tank running for at least a few months prior to introducing him.  
<Wise.>
Can this combination work?  I know nothing is certain in our hobby, but it seems like it should be achievable with proper planning.  Let me know what you think, I certainly hope I can find a way to keep more than one tang happy in my new aquarium.
<I think it can in your large system, but it's always good to have a backup plan.>
Thanks,
<Welcome!  -Mich>
Bret

... Tang sys?  12/15/06
Hello again Mich,
<Hi there Tom!>
Sorry to bug you again so soon.
<No apologies!  The pleasure is mine!>
I just had a thought that had to do with one of my previous questions, the one about what size tank I would need to happily house a Hippo Tang.
<OK>
You said that it would be good in a 100G tank because the need space to swim correct?
<Yes>
My question is, if I eventually got a 100G tank would I be able to house more than 1 tang in it?
<Possibly.  There is always the potential for problems when housing more than one species of surgeonfish.  Tangs can be particularly aggressive towards each other.  I'm not saying it can't or hasn't been done, but there is always a risk involved.>  
My thought is that they would both have space to swim, and there <their> own territory. Do I have the right idea?
<Mmmm, not really.  In general, tangs need room to swim and they get big, some can get really big.  The issue would more likely be the aggressive behavior typified by this fish towards other members of it's own family.>  
Thanks.
<You are most welcome! -Mich>
Tom
P.S. I did the humorous reading that you recommended to me about vodka in the aquarium. That was too cool. I wonder how someone would think that up.
<I thought you might be amused!  I'm thinking heinous party foul!  In actually, there is some quasi-scientific thinking involved.>
Tang compatibility   12/15/06
We have been reading about tang compatibility on your web site (wonderful site), but we are unsure if we have a problem in the making.  Our current tank is a 95 gallon with 100 pounds of live rock.  Inhabitants include 1- 3 inch yellow tang, 1- 5 inch Naso tang,
<Mmm, needs more room... at least a six foot "run", length system... now... and possibly much larger later>
2 sebae clowns, numerous invertebrates, and several corals (hammer, frogspawn, mushroom, bubble, assorted zoos, and a torch).  The yellow tang and the clowns were the first fish in the tank about four months ago.  The Naso tang was added about 2 months ago.  We watched with baited breath and a net in hand when the Naso was introduced, but all went well.  The yellow tang showed aggression with body language for several hours, but made no actual strikes or stabs.  Now, the two appear to be the "best of friends."  They always swim together and show no aggression to our inexperienced eyes.  They are both quite friendly and social and even eat out of our hands on occasion.
<Very nice>
   My first question is how likely is this to last?
<Highly likely... now, adding another Acanthurid might well be trouble...>
Are they likely to start showing aggression toward each other as they get older?
<Mmm, no>
  My second question is what size tank do you propose for these fish assuming all continue to live and thrive?  We know the 90 is too small for 2 tangs so we have started planning the upgrade.
<Ahh!>
  The only other fish we plan to add after the upgrade is a mandarin (with appropriate refugium for pods) and a small school of blue green Chromis.  Also, do you have an estimate of how soon an upgrade would be needed?
<Yes... really needs, would appreciate that six foot length to swim about... Perhaps a stock "180"... even an eight footer... a stock 240... of either 24 or 30 inch height... perhaps a custom job... Time to start measuring the living space... perhaps making cardboard cut-outs of the proposed sizes (one of my fave approaches)>
i.e.:  how fast might our Naso grow!?  Thank you for your time and assistance!  Michele
<Can grow quite quickly (an inch every few months) when fed well, given room... Bob Fenner>

Adding Tangs   9/5/06
Hello Crew,
    I have spent hours reading/enjoying your site. However, since everyone's tank is different, I still felt I needed a specific answer. I have a 125 G FOWLR, with  plans to slowly turn to reef. My current inhabitants are: 3 med. Bannerfish, 1 royal Gramma, 2 small true perculas, 1 purple lobster,
<Keep your eye on this predator>
and 6 small hermits. I would like to add 2 yellow tangs and 1 hippo tang. Is this realistic for my tank size and compatibility with the others?
Thank You
Karl
<Mmm, maybe one Yellow Tang (first) and then the Hippo... All would be happier/healthier with more room. Bob Fenner>

Mimic eibli tang   Acanthurus tristis   8/29/06
I am interested in purchasing a mimic eibli tang.
<And I just saw one of these at Jenkinson's Aquarium here in NJ>
  As they get older do they change their coloration to more of brownish, yellowish color or do they keep their juvenile coloration which is that of the eibli angel?
<Mostly the latter>
If so, is it better to get a smaller one since it will probably take years to lose their juvenile coloration?
<Have only seen ones of 3-4 inches ever offered in the trade.>
  Would they get along with other tangs of different shape and species?
<Mmm, should if not "too crowded">
Thanks,
Alan
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

-Adding Tangs?  8/28/06
Hello, all.
<Evening>
I have kinda a long story. I used to have two saltwater tanks, each with it's own tang-a sailfin and a yellow. They were both about the same size. I upgraded the two into one larger one-150 gallons. I added the tangs at the same time, and watched them to see if one would need to be removed. To my surprise, they got along great. They swam together like old buddies all over the tank. Sometimes I would see them waving their tails at each other, but it seemed to me like very minor tiffs or just play fighting. (I've seen the yellow actually attack and kill another fish, so I know what that looks like.)
<Tis a tad small for them long term, but glad to hear they were doing well>
However, I just moved, and through my own stupidity, I lost several fish (I was lucky not to lose all of them) including the sailfin tang. The tank has now been set up for a week, and the yellow tang is really sketchy-very shy, always hiding in the rocks and not coming out much. It seems to me like he misses his friend. (and he's probably weirded out about the rocks all in different places.) Anyways, I was wondering if I should get him a new friend. I know tangs usually like to fight with each other, but if I get one right now, and of the same size and general shape, do you think they would be okay together? Or was my pairing a one in a million chance? I was thinking of either another sailfin, a purple tang, a blue tang or a powder blur tang. (Although I know the last two have disease issues.)
Thanks for the input!!
<I would follow what has worked in the past.  If a sailfin worked well before, it has less of a chance of fighting with the yellow due to the yellow's attitude.  That being said, your new tang might bully the old, so do watch out.  Your correct in your assumptions for the hiding probably, you did not mention how recent the move was, so I would check all the parameters closely.>
<Justin>

Tang Compatibility   8/4/06
Dear WWM Crew,
<KB>
I have been reading your site for some time now, been through a lot of FAQ's, Forums, and posts to be a little confused about tang compatibility. It seems
sometimes you cannot keep more than one tang, such as the yellow tang, to a tank.
<Yes, more so than not.>
Other times I have read you should keep an odd number, example keeping 3 together with one dominant, or even three together of the same size so
there is not a dominant tang.
<Not true, there will always be a dominant tang in the group.  Been down that road, believe me.>
I'm not sure if I have misinterpreted anything. Does this really relate to the size of the tank? If so how much space doe each tang need?
<Space does help the compatibility issue.  Larger tanks, 180 and up generally allow one to keep a couple of tangs of a different genus.  The genus Paracanthurus
(Regal Tang, example), and zebrasoma (Sailfin, Yellow, Purple Tang) generally get along in large systems if acclimated at the same time.>
My second question is can I keep one yellow, one purple, and one brown tang together being all from the Zebrasoma family in the same tank, or more than
one together, say 3 of each?  Again does this come down to the size of the tank ?
<Would not recommend this, has been done, but more failures than accomplishments. Large systems, 220 and up, may reduce aggressive behavior in this regard.
If you have not, do read FAQ's (three parts) on tang compatibility.  Learn what others have experienced.  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/tangcompfaqs.htm>
Your site is awesome !!!! I love reading it!
<Please do a spelling/grammar/cap check in future queries, and thank you for the kind words.  James (Salty Dog)>
Awaiting your reply
KB (from the land down under)
<Adelaide perhaps?>

Non-Calcareous Tang "Safe" Seaweed - 07/29/06
Hi gang,
<<Hello Chuck...EricR here>>
I wrote back some months ago describing a problem in my  'display' macro tank. . . Which Dr. Bob correctly diagnosed as 'blue green algae' (despite its reddish/hairy appearance).
<<Mmm, yes...comes in a myriad of colors>>
His prognosis was accurate -- albeit somewhat discouraging -- that I was unlikely to be able to eliminate this troublesome nuisance, since it tends to bend systems to its own design.
<<Pretty smart fella, that Bobster>>
After several years of way-too-much maintenance, I finally/reluctantly reduced the tank to a large field of red seaweed (Gracilaria morph? Not sure. Looks like 'fire' -- but in opaque strands which form clumpy 'bunches' rather than the
translucent 'Halymenia' I used to have) along one side. . . separated by a large, open field of white aragonite from an enormous cream-colored double Rasta (slightly larger than a football, and host to a pair of true percs) on the other side.  The happy end result?  The simple fire-and-ice look of the overall tank (a 60 gallon) now gets compliments. . . whereas my previous
efforts at maintaining a seaweed 'zoo' looked pretty darn bad.  The second bit of good news was some Sargassum (hystrix?) <<one possibility>> which I'd cultivated in the system that got overrun was transferred to my main reef. . . where my glutonous yellow tang and purple tang were good about 'scrubbing’ off the troublesome blue green algae (something they seem happy to consume in small amounts). . . and after a few test-nibbles of leaves and stalks, are leaving the new crop of butterscotch-colored leaves to grow without disturbing them.  I realize this isn't a plant that is commonly available (I got mine from a hobbyist for a few bucks on E-bay), but for a guy who thinks the idea of seaweed in a reef tank is cool, and still loves tangs, this is a real plus.
<<Yes, so it seems>>
I keep mine anchored to several bits of live rock and down on the
substrate, to minimize interference with my corals. It's a long way from the lights (about 25 inches down from my just-PC's lighting) but is growing just fine.  Sorry for the uncertainty with respect to names. . . but most of the LFS labels run along the lines of 'red kelp. . . or 'green macro'.
<<Indeed>>
Chuck
<<Thank you for sharing.  EricR>>

Tangs Tangs Tangs - How many per tank?   7/12/06
Hi there WWM again,
<Hello Angela
Okay after I last spoke to you my puffer is now doing great (after inflating himself daily for a week he got ich, has now gotten rid of it so this was obviously the problem as he is fine now) the Maroon Clown and Neon Velvet Damsel (previously they had nipped fins) are doing great also - no white spot.
<Good to hear.> <<Is still there... just sub-clinical in expression... Like Arnie Schwarzneneggar, it'll be baaaaaaack. RMF>>
On to my real question, I have been cycling a 180 US gal tank for about 2 weeks now, Deltec skimmer & Aquamedic pump in the sump, Tunze power head have been assured that I am purchasing the best equipment for my tank, 3 MH & 2 blue T5's, basically what I want to know is if the fish I want to purchase can all live in this tank, how many tangs can I have and which order to add them in.  I looked in all the FAQ's and found loads on Regal Tangs but not much on other tangs in relation to how many? what order?  I am proposing to move the Porcupine Puffer, Maroon Clown and Damsel over next week (Ammonia - 0, Nitrite - 0, Nitrate - 0, PH 8.2, loads of live rock and corals) I then want to add (in this order) 2 Yellow Tangs,
<Better to only one of each type to minimize aggression.>
2 inches each (they come together from LFS), Yellow Tailed Purple Tang 5 inches, Cleaner Wrasse, Queen Angel or other potentially large Angelfish
<In looking at your lighting set-up, I'm thinking you are going to be keeping corals.  If so, the Queen Angel and/or similar are not reef compatible.>
and a Powder Blue Tang (med size).
<This fish is very prone to ich.  If your experience level is low, I'd stay away from the Power Blue.>
Okay the answer I am expecting from you is OMG, are you nuts as there is no way I am going to have selected my favourite fish and its going to be as easy as 'yes, no problem Angela, they will all live in harmony with one another' I wish lol.
<When adding tangs, do add all at the same time.>
Other question, if the above number of tangs is totally unacceptable,
<Your selection sounds OK>
my partner likes a Nigger Trigger in the LFS (personally I think he's gross) anyway, he has already killed 4 fish that the Fishman has told us about and I think he is a liability and a huge risk on the fish I already have and I am very attached to.  Do you think if this fish was last in it would be ok?
<With the fish you are choosing, I'd stay away from any triggerfish, just don't fit in.>
or the next fish we should get?  
<Your fish choice will be your choosing.  Do research before buying as to compatibility, needs, etc.>
If the Queen Angel is a definite 'no' can you suggest some other stunning Angels available in UK?
<Angela, I have no idea what is available in the UK.  Pygmy Angels are generally well behaved in a community system.>
Am I maxed out at 9 fish in this size of tank or is even 9 too many?
<All depends on the size they will attain, another research item.  I would safely say 36 inches of total fish length would be fine in your tank.>
I have snails, hermits and a Boxer Shrimp as the clean up crew.  I also considered a clam, gentleman at Fish store has advised 'do so at own risk' as far as Puffer goes, what do you think?
<Forget the clam.>   I  was also keen on a Sea Hare, I know that they ink for defense but are they too a no no with the Puffer?
<Require a very good chemical filter in the event the dye is released, before it can lead to problems.  They also graze on Caulerpa and other algae types.
If you cannot provide this, I'd stay away from the Sea Hare.
I think that's quite enough questions for now, please try to answer as many as possible - many thanks for all your help and keep up the good advice.
<You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
Angela, Scotland UK.

Re:  Tang Compatibility  - 0713/2006
Hi James,
<Hello Angela>
Great, thank you so much for the quick response and I am delighted with your words of wisdom.  
<You're welcome.>
Hmm, our knowledge of Marine's is probably novice although we are getting better and are testing our water regularly etc, I have kept goldfish and tropical for years before Marine's but obviously this is much more complex.  Regarding the Tangs - the gentleman at the FS won't sell us all 4 at one time as he says we can't rush things and we have to go slooooooowly.
<I would not put four tangs in the 180.  Three would be fine, and again, to minimize aggression, they should be added at the same time.  Your tank is large enough to warrant this.>
We are planning a fabulous coral reef, your right.  Hopefully little ET won't become much of a handful with them (so far so good with the corals we have so far though).  Fabulous news on the Trigger - not my personal favourite fish.
<Not mine either, neat to look at, but hellraisers to say the least.>
Can't wait to get the fish, going to be adding them over the next year though as everything takes time and has to be added slooooowly lol :-(
Take care and I'll hopefully send you a picture in a few months once it's starting to look more like a reef.
<Yes, please do.  Love to get pics.>
Cheers
<And to you.  James (Salty Dog)>
Angela, Scotland UK.

Tang Compatibility   7/11/06
Hello WWM Crew,
<Howdy Ben>
I've been keeping various aquariums for a few years now, including a 55 gallon fresh, an 85 gallon FOWLR and a small nano reef.  I am upgrading to a larger 150, which is in the process of being setup.
<Oh boy!>
I plan on it being a reef tank with assorted soft/stony corals and an anemone
<Careful here>
and some small Tridacna clams as well.  As I'm only 15 years old, I always like to research a particular species or setup as much as possible before making a decision,
<A good practice>
and on the subject of tang compatibility I've encountered many varying opinions.
<There are... and on top of this, there's good reason... this is a group of highly variable (behaviorally) fishes... only "general" trend, tendencies can be cited with confidence... "the bigger the system, the more likely they'll get along", "mixing members of dissimilar genera is better than...">
Basically, my question is whether or not I will be able to keep a  3" purple tang (one I already have in the 85 gallon) along with an Achilles tang and a yellow tang.
<Mmm, maybe... Acanthurus achilles... oh, I see below>
I know that an Achilles tang is a delicate fish and I intend to do much more research and preparation before actually getting one.
<Hard to keep, easy to import disease with...>
Fish-wise, other inhabitants will include a small family of false-percula residing in the anemone, most likely a carpet, as well as adding a six-line wrasse and possibly but cautiously a coral beauty angel. I will introduce the tangs last and at the same time, and intend on keeping them well fed with a large crop of algae and frequent feedings.
Any advice you have would be much appreciated.    
Ben R.
<Can be done... I'd place the anemone elsewhere than with scleractinians, alcyonaceans here. Bob Fenner>

Clown Tang/Compatibility?   7/7/06
Hi guys (and gals),
<Hello Edward>
At the local fish store there is an employee that I really trust I will go to him to answer almost any question I have. And on
multiple occasions I have checked the accuracy of his statements with your website or others and he is usually dead on. So I he has been
helping me setup my new 100 gallon reef tank, including plans, stocking, setup, he has even gone as far to come out and help me with my aquascape
free of charge. I only mention all of this to show the level of trust I have in him. Now today I brought in a water sample to show him the
progress of my new tank. My cycle is complete and my water conditions are perfect. While I was there I saw the most beautiful clown tang, he
told me the tang came out of one of his friends aquariums that was too small. It was in this persons reef tank for almost a year and lived
totally peacefully with other tank mates. He also said it would do great in my tank. I bought it and after reading some of the stuff I have seen
on this great website I got a little nervous. Do you think this beautiful fish is going to be a nuisance in my tank? Has he let me down
or is there a possibility that this clown is an exception to the rule?
Thanks again for all your help!
<Edward, there are a few items that I find questionable.  First, it is not advisable to put a tang in a newly set up system.  Second, this fish
should not be kept in anything much smaller than a 150.  Third, this is a very difficult fish to keep for any length of time.  In this regard, I
am referring to the Acanthurus lineatus (Clown Tang).  There is a similar tang, Acanthurus sohal that is much easier to keep.  Sounds like his
friend had very good luck, which leads me to believe the tang is a sohal. As far as compatibility, they are aggressive
toward other tangs. This fish also requires very clean, highly oxygenated water.  Do read here for more info on the genus Acanthurus.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/acanthurTngs.htm  James (Salty Dog)>
Edward

Atlantic Tang/Compatibility James,  6/15/06
<Carrie>
(Hi, query is 2nd paragraph, sorry I forgot the question mark.  I wanted to elaborate on the conduct of my Atlantic tang to give an
interesting fact or two on this tang so others who have it do not wonder why this "peaceful tang" is so snippy.  It sure was a shock to me!
Alrighty then!  I currently have a 2" Atlantic tang still in her "brat" stage.   Research has proven as young juveniles they inhabit the reef
with a damsel that they need to be "tough" to live around, yet outgrow their "brat" stage at 3 or 4" as they start to school with the larger fish.
It is said they are one of the most peaceful Acanthurus.
<Peaceful with other fish, not with tangs.>
So, my  question is this, after the "brat" stage, could I add a true powder  brown (Acan. jap.)?
<By "after the brat stage", do you mean adult, when the tang gets its blue coloration?  If so, you
will probably have some fighting.  Large tanks will lessen the issue.
I KNOW they are of the same genus, but due to the docile nature of both of them, I wondered if it would be possible to mix these two
Acanthurus in a 150 gallon reef or add a total of 3 Acanthurus.  (that may only apply to the same KIND of fish, huh?)
<Oh no, very territorial unless you have a huge tank, 200 gallons+, would have better luck with different species.>
I have a tank growing Caulerpa, and use a clip for my baby brat now.
Nice thing is it doesn't go "bad" if it doesn't get eaten like Nori and other seaweed sheets.   She has fattened up too, so her health is quite good.  Point is, I have plenty to feed them all.
<If you do plan on getting a Powder Brown, be sure it is the A. jap and not
the A. nigricans as they are difficult feeders.  Read here, http://www.wetwebmedia.com/GoldRimSs.htm>
Thanks again!
<You're welcome.>
Carrie :)

Re:  Atlantic Tang/Compatibility   6/16/06
James,
<Carrie>
Thanks for your reply!  Oh yes, I agree 110% on the Acan. jap!  I did extensive research on my Atlantic tang as well, so I know EXACTLY what you mean!
<Good>
When I mean past the "brat stage" for the Atlantic I mean at about 3 or 4" as that is the time they start to shoal with the older ones and do not need the "square feet" per "inch" of body per say as an adult. (according to a long research paper I read among other things; like I said a LOT of research)  As far as temperaments, the Atlantic is, next to the powder brown, the "nicest" Acan., sort of like the lipstick tang of the Nasos. See my point?  I know what you meant about being aggressive toward other tangs.  EX:
<I see your point.>
At one point, when I had a smaller tank and I was moving into my current 150, and I had (all babies) a lipstick tang, purple, yellow eye Kole, and one other of a different genus.  Honestly, they all got along fine, though the purple tang was a butt head at times, the Naso kept him in check!
<Yes, no two situations will be alike, the aggressiveness toward other tangs is a general behavior pattern.>
I provided a lot of Gracilaria, etc, so maybe the lack of competition for the food helped.
<Will help in that regard.>
Plus, I decided I really would like my kelp to grow!  Hey I got a chiller in trade for the Naso and frags from each of my corals! (guy needed a larger Naso and the stores
didn't have any and mine was 7" and FAT) Not too bad huh?
<Not too bad at all.>
The purple was a mercy purchase from a shop who didn't make it, (BAD lateral line disease) and the yellow eye, fat and seemingly healthy died from the
stress of tank changing.  (now, with all my research realized the whole "mouth vacuum" thing about the Koles, and that must have been what happened... damaged mouth)
Okay, with all my beginner faults, I am so much more experienced, with about a college course worth of information on marine fish!  So........ contrary to what I KNOW as workable, when researching the Atlantic tang finding out about the personalities, etc, (well once they are 3 to 4") I did research on the powder brown (thinking it was the same as the
powder blue..... nasty and not the best survival rate in inexperienced hands)
<Most definitely>
I found the personality to be as "nice" as far as Acanthurus go, as the Atlantic blue.  Oh, by the way, a side point, in the wild they will co-exist with the ocean tang, who is an Acanthurus and tolerate them in their "territory", so that is what lead me to the conclusion about temperament and the Atlantic and P. Brown (Acan jap of course).
<Keeping in mind, co-existing in the ocean is much, much different than co-existing in a 72" x 24" space.>
IF I intro the powder brown when the Atlantic blue is about 3 to 4", (presently she is 2" and blue with a yellow tail and that combo can actually last different lengths of time depending on the individual fish!  In fact, researchers say that even the yellow stage can last when the fish is 1/2 grown in rare cases, so color is not an indication
of age.  Interesting, no?)
<Yes, and I must commend you for all the research you have done on the tangs, knowing what you are getting into.>
and at the "shoaling age" (though this past week, she shoals with my Solor or velvet wrasse at times) in 150 gallons with 250 pounds of caves, would it be a possibility?
<Sure>
Now consider, when people put in a LARGE tank 3 yellow tangs, is this theory possible with 3 different Acanthurus?  OR just only try the Atlantic and powder brown?
<It's the chance you have to take.  Each fish, like humans, have a different personality.>
I do want to add a tank raised hippo tang as well, (if possible, but 3 tangs may be too much)
<Yes, a 150 is not a large tank for full grown tangs.>
as I know the reason they do not do well is they don't like aggressive tank mates like the purple tang, and some other fish.  I do have a place that if it doesn't "work out" would take and give me credit on the powder brown.
<A good shop to deal with.>
I know this is a lot of info, and your eyes are probably crossing, but being very analytical, I didn't think this was too "out there" as a possibility.  I may not even bother with the hippo tang, to be honest.  
Unless the powder brown is out of the question.  Though the brown only gets 8" and the hippo 12".  See my dilemma?
<Yes>
I like the Ctenochaetus, though the Tomini is a real attitude in a fish suit though being the smallest of the Cten., (harassing even non-tang fish larger than itself!)  the yellow eye and others are much more mellow.  The mouth issue scares me and that may be the fish to get at the store, not mail order!
Take care!
<Geez...Bob may recruit you for our in-house tang expert.  A while back, Bob had an excellent article on Powder Blue Tangs in Aquarium Systems Sea
Scope.  Should be able to find/read on line.  Good luck with your tang family.
James (Salty Dog)>
Carrie :)

Re:  Atlantic Tang/Compatibility  - 06/17/2006
James,
Carrie,
One more question..... once my "brat" Atlantic is 3 to 4" and mellowed out, not chasing the mollies around, (the babies they pop out are like
a natural supplement for my other fish, and I have a reef, so the salt is 1.023 to 1.025) what size should the powder brown be that I add?  
Larger, the same size or smaller (though that may not be a good idea to make it smaller I am guessing).
<I would choose the same size or slightly larger.  Problem is, you probably won't have too many choices.>
I know I have to re-arrange the rocks at intro to break up the territory from what I understand.  
<A good idea.>
After that, (it has been a year I don't remember) how long before they calm down.
<Again, individual personalities will dictate this.>
I thought it was about a week, but just wanted to make sure.  I know there will be some battle marks, but they usually are not too big of a deal when the tangs are little.
TY again!
<You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
Carrie :)

SW stkg.    6/4/06
I was wondering about the compatibility of a Indian ocean mimic  surgeonfish.
I have a yellow tang and a blue chin trigger already established in  the tank and if it would be possible to house an Acanthurus with a zebrasoma.  thank you
<On a sliding scale with larger systems... likely so... a few hundred gallons, very likely so... several hundred, almost assuredly. Bob Fenner>

-Sailfin Stocking-  - 5/7/2006
Bob:
<Justin with you today, but I was at IMAC with Bob>
I worked at IMAC (staff) last week but couldn't manage to get by your throng of admirers to say hi.  Next time!  You've been a lot of help with fish
recommendations and here I am again!
<Thanks for helping put on such a great convention/conference.>
I have a 150gal 5x2x2 tank, with a 150 sump and 75 fuge.  So lots of water.
My question has nothing to do with bioload as I'm fine there.
It's more a "space" issue in the display.
<Ok>
I have a 2.5" hepatus (grown from 1.5" in 2 months!) and a 2.5" or so Kole tang.
<Very nice specimens for a home aquarium.  Any fighting or territorial issues?>
I have an opportunity to acquire the most gorgeous sailfin tang I've ever seen.  Had my eye on him months ago but the store owner said he wasn't
selling.  Then he decided to sell to someone who is getting out.  I have "dibs" but need to do this responsibly.
<Yes, responsibly is definately the right word here.>
I know every individual will be different, so even if they are on paper compatible one can't control for that.  But in principle should these 3 fish
be ok in this size display?  My other fish are 3 Chromis, 1 radiant wrasse, 1 mandarin goby, 2 perculas and 1 royal Gramma.  This would be my last fish addition.
Thanks!
Joel
<Joel Ill be honest with you, If you can provide another tank for this specimen or one of the others should an issue arise, or if your LFS is willing to re-home one of the fish if there is an issue, then I think you should be ok.  I would definitely think this will be the Alpha fish in the tank, and certainly the last fish you want to add. Hope you have good luck with these specimens, but do keep a very careful eye on them once you add the sailfin.>
<Justin (Jager)>

-Sailfin Stocking part 2-  - 5/7/2006
Thanks!  This one has been extremely mild-mannered in it's current home. The ones in my tank are also fine
though at times the Kole picks on the Hepatus. That's changing as the latter grows, now they leave each other alone.
<Good to hear, the sailfin will probably  pick on them both to assert dominance as it is normally a much more aggressive alpha fish, so do be ready just incase.  Good luck and write back to let us know how things are progressing if it does go well.>
<Justin (Jager)>
Thanks, I'll give it a go.  Appreciate it!

Powder Blue and Yellow Tang? 4/27/06
NO Vacancy (A Fully-Stocked Aquarium)
I have an opportunity to acquire a Powder Blue Tang.  WWM says these are notoriously poor survivors in captivity, but this particular fish has been in the tank for 2 years, so I assume this is one of the survivors. Anyway, I already have a 3" Yellow Tang, nearly 3 years old.  Will these two fish get along?  Tank is a 3 year old 125 gal with 130 lbs of live rock and plenty of algae.
Other occupants include 3" Blue Angel (2+ yrs
old), Royal Gramma, Sixline Wrasse, Chalk Bass, Green Chromis, and
Lawnmower Blenny.
<Well, these Tangs do inhabit different ecological niches, so they will probably get along reasonably well, but I'm more concerned about the available space in the aquarium. These guys need a lot of room, particularly the Powder Blue Tang. Your aquarium is pretty well populated already, in my opinion, and the addition of this fish will put you over the edge on stocking, as far as I'm concerned. It's also a personal rule of mine not to house more than one Tang in any aquarium less than 6 feet in length, if for no other reason than the large territory these guys need to rang over.>  
I'm also considering adding a French Angel and Dwarf Angel, giving me three angels of varying sizes.
<Please don't. Way too many fish at that point- and the French Angel can reach a HUGE size. To pack it into a tank like that would spell disaster for the long term, IMO. Kind of like you being stuck for the rest of your life in a reasonably comfortable, but crowded apartment. Not an ideal situation.>
LFS says that would likely minimize fighting.
<In a tank of suitable size (were talking HUNDREDS of gallons), sure.>
Anyway, would the PBT (or any of my other fish) have a
problem with the angels or with a potential Foxface?
<I'd pass on any more additions of fishes that can reach 4 inches or more, myself. I know that it seems as though the tank could support the fish, and it will, in the very short term. However, when you purchase fishes, you need to think of the long term. Some of the fishes that you are considering reach large sizes, requiring a large amount of physical space. Do reconsider your stocking plan for long-term success. Best of luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Tang Talk! comp.  - 4/24/2006
Hi WWM person d'jour ( I bet you're tired of being called Bob ;-),
<Scott F. here today...and I'd take being called "Bob" a compliment of the highest order...I've been called a lot worse before! :)  >   
  This is a compatibility question...I have a 100gl tank with 2 110w 12K and 2 50/50's VHO's and a 4"DSB. I want to change from a reef to FOWLR, so that I can place a Rose BTA and Powder Brown Tang or Goldrimmed Tang as two featured residents. I have had an anemone before and am aware of its needs. Is the Tang safe to include?
<I have kept Tangs in tanks with anemones before, without any problems. My bigger issue is with the fishes themselves. I am concerned about the tank size, believe it or not. I like to recommend not keeping tangs in aquariums less than 6 feet in length, as these fishes do attain a large size, and do need room to "run". In fact, it really might be advisable to use a Zebrasoma species for better long-term success. I would think about a larger tank in the future if you're looking at a tank less than 6 feet in length. Do use a careful selection and quarantine process with these fishes, particularly the Powder Brown Tang, which has a reputation for touchiness>
I checked the questions listed and didn't get a clear answer. I would add the BTA first to see where it lands and add the Tang last to cause less territory issues. I also have a Chocolate Chip Star that I need to decide whether to keep or not, again trying to determine compatibility with the tang and BTA.
<I would not be concerned about this pairing, myself.>
What other fish might I consider as well in that size tank? Of course the family wants another clown ( I was fortunate last time it worked out fine ), and I can't say no to the man that bought me the tank as an anniversary gift!
<I hear ya! Clownfish are always fine. I really like the "Black Perculas", myself. Smaller Halichoeres species wrasses are great fish, too, and they add color and activity in a modestly-sized package!>
I removed the bio-balls and put a huge clump of Chaeto algae in the sump lighted 24/7. How does this setup sound. Suggestions?
<Sounds fine, but I'd just light on a reverse schedule with the tank lighting (in other words, light the Chaetomorpha when the tank is "dark", and vice versa). Best of luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Tang Compatibility.. "In This Corner Wearing The Yellow Trunks"    4/20/06
Hello Mates,  <Hello Nelson>
I've been a great admirer of your superb website. <Why thank you.> I've had countless questions answered by looking diligently over your archives but here  
is kind of a silly question that is curiously confounding me. I have two tanks with a tang in each one. A 55 gallon with 60 LR and a 4"  
yellow tang. The tank is stocked with a Marine Betta Calloplesiops altivelis,  Coral beauty,  Long-nose hawkfish, a maroon clownfish, a  
royal Gramma and a 4" skunk cleaner shrimp.
He is grumpy to the point of intolerance of any fish . He nips and tears off sizable chunks of my fish's tails regularly and once killed  
and consumed a nice size skunk cleaner shrimp. I've decided he's outgrown this tank. <Yes, getting a little irate.> My 180 gallon FOWLR has an ever-expanding 100lb  
LR. It has a 5" Desjardini sailfin tang Zebrasoma desjardinii, a 6" Australian  Harlequin Tuskfish, a 7 1/2"  green bird wrasse, a 4"  
Niger trigger, a snowflake eel, a humungo 6" gold- maroon clownfish plus 4 dither humbug damsels. Here is my question. My LFS says that I  
can introduce the Yellow tang into the 180 g tank IF i get a third tang?! Which would you recommend (a Sohal or Purple tang?. I think I  
can see you mouthing "heck no"!)
<Your 180 isn't large enough for another fish with what you have in there now.  I'm sure the sailfin is well established in the 180 and even if there was room for the Yellow Tang all
of hell will break loose upon introduction.>
They theorize that the fighting will be diffused by this triumvirate of malice and hence leave each other be.
<Sounds good on paper.>
Can this so called Mexican standoff really work?
<An outside chance it could, but I wouldn't try it.  With the live rock present you would have one sweet time trying to net the tang out.>
I tried a clown tang in this tank before and either stopped eating because of tang battles or was unimpressed by my sushi Nori/ Selcon laced fishie foods. I quarantined and  
nevertheless he went to Davy Jones locker. I REALLY hate to lose  
Fish.
<Yes, we all do  but unfortunately it does happen.>
Thanks for your help!
<You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
Sincerely,
Nelson Santiago

Tang, et al. fishes parasitic problems, aquarium keeping    4/8/06
Hi there Bob,
<Stefan>
About 10 days ago I got myself an Acanthurus japonicus Surgeon, about 10cm long. When I added the fish he was a
bit intimidated by the larger fox face and the tang did not really eat much for the first three days.
<Not atypical behavior for a new Tang... esp. in the presence of an established Acanthuroid species>
I moved the Fox to the sump to give the tang chance to relax and hopefully get him to eat, which he did in small quantities.
<No quarantine....?>
About five days after I added him I noticed he became very uncomfortable with something and he kept on doing fast
turns, like something chasing or biting him, he will be relaxed the one moment, and next thing doing fast "8
figure" moves. Closer inspection revealed that there are about 9 very small black spots on the rear half of the
body, no spots on fins. Before I noted the spots I suspected some gill parasite and I give him a freshwater
dip with methylene blue for 6 minutes. Doing this made a big difference and he stopped doing the crazy sudden turns.
He still occasionally scratch himself against the glass after I did the dip. I read that stress and a poor diet can cause
the black spot parasite to attack the fish. The fish ate little till about day 6 when I started adding "Entice" and
"Garlic Guard" to his Nori, now he eats a lot !!! great products!!! The amount of black spots looks less, but are
still apparent. This might be a stupid question, but should I put him through all the stress to try and catch him for a
second dip, or should I now leave him since his eating very well?
<... a bunch to state ahead of a simple "yes/no" response here... This is likely a fluke infestation... that might have become established now in your main/display system... dipping and/or treating them elsewhere and returning host fish won't really cure them...>
The colour of the fish is now much more bright compared to the first week. The fox is still in the sump with no signs of black spots. My tank is a 300L reef with
about 11 KG crushed live rock on a thick Aragamite bed using a plenum, lots of artificial rock... System is running for about 9 months. Water Chemistry is very good.
Thank You Bob,
Stefan, South Africa
<Welcome... Do please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/parasittkfaq2.htm
and the linked files above re "Parasitic Systems"... and embrace such acclimation and quarantine procedures outside your principal displays. Bob Fenner>

Stocking/Compatibility/Tangs    4/8/06
240 gallon, 5 years, clown trigger (2 months) .FOWLR.  We re-stocked. I want to add some tangs that school (DUMB, I KNOW).  <Yes, it is.>
I LOVE Schooling Heniochus diphreutes but they would be KILLED! <The tangs won't fair much better with the Terminator in there.> Kole, convict, powder blue.....about 7 fish of one species. I appreciate your help! Have fun in Sacramento!  <Must be Bob going to the Capital City.  Dale, don't try this.  I have some years ago.  My wife begged for a school of Yellow Tangs, told her what will probably happen and it did.  Starts out nice, looks impressive but within one year all that was left was the alpha tang.  The least dominant would eventually be harassed to a point where it would not feed and die.  The cycle keeps repeating.  Your chances would be much
better keeping assorted tangs and to stock them at the same time, and, no guarantees here either.  I suggest you read the FAQ's here and learn more about tang compatibility.  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/paraccompfaqs.htm  James (Salty Dog)>
Dale

Clown Surgeon, other Tang... comp., macroalgae avail.   4/1/06
Thank you Bob, that cleared it up somewhat. Also just wanted to ask if you have received an email I sent a week ago. Not sure if it got lost or something?
<Don't recall... anything that was missed... lost...>
I know you're busy, so if the reason is due to the backlog of questions, I apologize for my impatience.
I have included the email here:
<Ah, good>
"Hi Bob,
I am considering purchasing a Clown Surgeon (Acanthurus lineatus) and have researched widely on this fish. I would like your opinion on whether it will be suited to my tank. I have a 900 Litre tank currently housing a blue-spotted ray, and 3 small snowflake eels. I plan to complete the tank with 2 blue-lined snappers and 2 H. acuminatus. Do you see any possible problem if I were to introduce a Clown Surgeon?
<Mmm, not with what you list. This may become a/the alpha fish here>
I understand they are aggressive and require a higher level of care. And I am concerned it might cause trouble with the snappers. If I don't get the Clown surgeon my other option is an Acanthurus Sohal or a Naso Lituratus.
<These can also be "bold", particularly the Sohal>
I know that this is involves a high degree of speculation, but I am trying to avoid possible personal disappointment and stress for my tank
inhabitants. Have you had any experience with this (these) fish?
<Oh yes>
Also, I am having trouble finding any retailer in Australia which sells Chaetomorpha...Can you suggest any way in which I can get my hands on some?
<Perhaps some other hobbyist... are there BB's for the marine aquarium hobby? I would query otherwise re on Reefs.org, Aquarium Frontiers, ReefCentral re...>
(Am also not sure on the current legality of importing/retailing this type of macroalgae.. I have emailed Aust. Quarantine but so far no reply)
<Do take care to not break the law>
I do have access to red macroalgae however, and I was wondering if red algae is suitable for consumption by any of the above mentioned surgeons.
<Many species of Reds, yes>
Will (can) it also serve as a denitrifying component in my refugium?
<Definitely>
Thanks in advance,
Joe.
<BobF>

Stocking, Compatibility, Suitability - 03/28/06
We would like to add a Blue Hippo Tang to our tank.
<<Mmm...a large tank I hope...>>
We have been waiting for months to get a good specimen.
<<Wise>>
Our LFS has 2 that have been eating well for 2 weeks and the LFS will keep them another week before selling them.  One is large around 5 inches and the other is smaller 3 inches.  The fish we have are listed in the order they were added to the tank. 2 clowns (1.5in), Tennent Tang (5.5in), female Blue-throat trigger (7in); Niger trigger (2in), Flag Fin Angel (2.5in), Flame Angel (2in), and male Blue-throat trigger 4in).  We also have 3 XL cleaner shrimp, 1 bubble-tip anemone, 1 Ritteri anemone, pulsing xenia, 150+ hermit crabs, 25 super Nassarius snails, 10 Pacific conch, 26 Zebra turbo snails, 1 purple impact urchin<<neat!>>, 2 tiger tail sea cucumbers, 2 sand-sifting stars, 3 Burgundy stars, and 5 large brittle stars.  Ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 15ppm,
<<You should work on bringing this down.>>
salinity 1.025, temp 76 - 82, pH 8.2.  The 800 watts of metal halides are wreaking havoc on temp.  We may have to buy a chiller or redesign our hood.
<<Or bump up the heaters so the temp doesn't fall below 79/80...82 isn't all that bad.  My tank reaches 82 degrees every day during the summer months, and here in SC that's the bigger part of the year.  You could also employ small fans to blow across the surface of the water to help with evaporative cooling.>>
Which size blue hippo would be the better choice?.
<<How big is your tank?  With two anemones (and especially with the Ritteri) you need to be very mindful of water quality...much more so than if this were just a FOWLR setup.>>
Our Tennent tang can be a bit pushy.
<<Indeed...and at 5.5" I think you will have a tough time adding another tang unless this tank is VERY large.>>
The only problem we had was when we introduced the male blue-throat into the tank.  The female did not like him and would click
at him and bite him.  He did manage to survive the attack and now everyone seems to tolerate each other.
<<I think you were lucky...these triggers are best ordered/introduced as a pair...I'm glad it worked out for you/him.>>
That was about 4 weeks ago.  We have an in tank refugium that we purchased after the problems with the triggers.  We figure the Blue Tang will live in there for a while.  Our tank is a 200-gallon FOWLR and several inverts.
<<Mmm, no...not in my opinion.  The presence of the anemones in this tank means it doesn't fall under the same care guidelines as a FOWLR and needs to be geared more toward the needs of the anemones.  You will need to maintain much lower nitrate levels/better water quality all 'round than you presently have/would need to if this were a true FOWLR.  You will also be more limited on your fish selections because of the presence of the anemones.  I'll be surprised if the Flagfin doesn't become a problem as it matures.>>
We have a Tunze filtration system with a Tunze Protein skimmer on the rail system.
<<good stuff>>
Tank has been up and running since October 2005.  We have a DSB 4-5" Oolitic Aragamax.  Total of 180lbs of rock only about 75lbs being good live rock.  The other was live rock but had been sitting outside for 6 months after the previous owner tore down his tank.  Do we have enough room to eventually add 2 (male & female) Bimaculatus Anthias and a green mandarin (when our tank & live rock mature)?
<<All things considered (system size/occupants), I think you're better off passing on the Hippo tang.  I think the Bi-Color Anthias are a good choice, I would even recommend you add a trio of females with the male (allows a more natural "pecking order" and will give the females a better chance/rest than having a single female for the male to constantly harass).   As for the Mandarin, you (it) might have a chance with a mature sand bed/rock in this size system...though I would prefer to see the addition of a large external downstream refugium for it and the anemone's sake.>>
Thank you for your help.
Jeri
<<Happy to assist.  Regards, EricR>>

Tangs ... Sohal mixing, comp. in gen.  - 3/1/2006
Hello Crew, hope you all are doing well.
   <I am this AM, thanks>
  I have a question. I currently have a 380 gallon aquarium with only 7 Fish, they are a 4" Scopas Tang, Pair of GSM clowns with the female being 4" and the male 1.5",  3" Purple Tang, 4" Imperator Angel, 4" Orange Shoulder Tang and a 8" Vlamingii Tang, as you can tell my 380 is pretty understocked and there is a member on our board that has a 15" Vlamingi tang in a 135  that has clearly outgrown his tank and wants to sell him to me.
<Mmm, might go with your current Tangs... might not in the short to longer haul>
  Would it be safe to put in the 15" vlamingii tang into my tank if I add another 2 fish along with the Vlamingii to create some distraction or would the Vlamingi's still fight?
   <As a "one shot" question here... given the input only... I would not do this... Instead, I'd set my mind to what you intend ultimately to house... and start, continue adding this in appropriate sizes. As you will know, I enjoy this Acanthurus species, but it can be a terror... and very hard to extract from a system as yours>
  Note: I will be upgrading to a 570 gallon aquarium in about 9 months when I move houses.   
  Thanks.
<... Mmm, maybe by the time this system is up and going your other tangs will have "put on" a few inches... and the mondo Sohal will still be available. Do look into "Spectrum" pelleted foods... are very useful for tang keeping... health aspects, reducing aggression... Bob Fenner>

Mixing Tangs, Stocking Order - 2/28/2006
Hello ladies and gentlemen,
<<Hello Blair.>>
I have a quick stocking order question. I am moving some inhabitants from an established 120 gallon to a new 125 gallon, (which is simultaneously running with no other inhabitants yet) including a yellow tang. In the new 125 I would like to introduce a PBT (powder blue tang) and a fox face, as well as the yellow tang from the established tank, mind you, neither the PBT nor Foxface have been purchased yet. Assuming I can do it, after quarantining the PBT and FF for the proper time, what order should I introduce these three?
<<Introduce at the same time, with the lights out, to minimize aggression.  Do be prepared to separate if issues arise.  Mixing tangs can be hit-or-miss.>>
Thanks in advance!
<<Glad to help. Lisa.>>
Kindest regards,
Blair

Naso Tang Compatibility...Apparently Sometimes 'NOT' - 02/06/06
I know you have an entire page with questions on compatibility of tangs but I still can't get past my fear of what to do next.
<<Hmm...Ok...let's see what we can do about it.>>
We have a 7 inch Naso tang alone in a 180 gallon tank with lots of corals and several clams.  I'm happy with the arrangement because the tang is like my little dog.  It's spoiled rotten and eats only from my hands.  We have a 180 gallon tank with a 125 gallon refugium with lots of macro algae in it so we can support more
than our little guy (even though he eats and poops a whole lot).  We tried introducing an algae blenny several years ago when it was in a 125 gallon.  I think it terrorized it to the point that it finally died since it was frequently chased into hiding and it could not graze off the front glass.
<<Likely so...stress, aggression induced or otherwise, is a killer.>>
We used to have 3 little yellow tailed damsels that hid most of the time.  They worked out relatively well because they ate the scraps from the tang and could dart out of the way when he lunged at them.
<<Curious...Sounds like maybe you have a monster on your hands.>>
They are no longer with us since we moved to the bigger tank (it's a long story).  I just can't bring myself to introduce another fish but my husband thinks I'm crazy to have a 180 gallon tank with one fish in it.  We're thinking of putting in another tang since it can defend itself but I hate to make my friend so unhappy.
<<Defend itself?  Maybe...but at what cost (permanent injury or death to one/both fishes)?>>
Perhaps a regal tang or a purple?
<<Based on this fish's history as you've outlined, I think the result of adding another tang would be disastrous.>>
He lived briefly in a 100 gallon tank in the course of our move along with two other fish, one of which was a tang, which was slightly smaller and with very little rocks and seemed fine.
<<It would appear this fish's social behavior has taken a turn for the worst.>>
We also thought of getting a bubble tipped anemone and a clown
that could hide in it.
<<I don't advocate anemones in a tank with sessile invertebrates.>>
Perhaps a school of Chromis?
<<This "might" be your best option...if you have any at all.>>
So where do we start?  I can't have anything that will bite my fingers because my little friend will only eat from my hands.
<<Do be cautious that this fish doesn't turn on you some day.>>
He really belongs out in the reef, I know, but we were newbies when we bought him.  Thanks for your patience.
<<If you're really attached to this fish, as you seem to be, perhaps your best option is to resign yourself (your husband) to the fact that this tank "belongs" to the Naso.  Regards, EricR>>

Naso Tang Compatibility   2/8/06
Hi Folks -  I saw the recent post from the lady with the 7" Naso tang.  I actually have a fair amount of experience with tangs, having had my similar (but admittedly larger) tank for about 5 years.  I currently have a set up with 2 large Zebrasomas, 1 small Zebrasoma, a huge vlamingi, a huge regal, a large Kole, a medium Tennent, and a small Atlantic blue, all living very happily together.  The all gather to eat from my hand.  My opinion is that this (I presume) lipstick tang this lady owns can co-exist with other tangs if (a) she adds more than one of the new tangs at the same time, and (b) the new tangs are much smaller than this guy.
<Likely so... if the system is large/enough>
Perhaps a small school of 3-4 regal tangs.  Also, starting them out in containers -- say large SeaChem containers with a lot of holes in them placed in an area of water flow -- for a few days might help.  Getting tangs to live together isn't easy, but it is certainly rewarding.  My humble opinion.  Dale M.
<Thank you for this input/sharing. Bob Fenner>

Brittle stars, purple Gorgonia and tangs
Crew
Are any of these brittle stars (O. alexandri, erinaceus, or paucigranulata) known to eat small fish?
<Mmm, not well-known for such, no... but many fishes do predate Ophiothrix species>
My population of green Chromis seem to be decreasing. Some mornings a couple look stressed with damaged fins, while looking fine
the day before. I have several species of Gorgonia and a collection of tangs (1 purple, 1 unicorn, 1 sailfin, 4 yellow, 2 regal and 1 Atlantic blue).  I've
noticed that small chunks of the thick rind (or whatever you call it) are missing off of the branches of the purple Gorgonia.  Some spots are almost to
the center of the branches, exposing the gorgonin or stick.  My question is, do the fish like Gorgonia or are they trying to clean off algae,
<Perhaps the latter>
or just hungry?  Would it okay to supply them throughout the day with seaweed on a clip?
<Yes, certainly>
I feed these fish a lot everyday besides seaweed.  Or should I eliminate the culprit (which I think is the purple or Atlantic blue tang mostly). My
tank is 500 gallons which allows enough room for their space. they don't appear stressed, but at times will veer each other out of their territory.  I
thought these tangs are supposed to be reef safe. thanks.
<Mmm, all a matter of "relativism"... Do look into/try Spectrum foods as well with your tangs... very nutritious and well-received. Bob Fenner>

Tang mixing question   1/14/06
All,
<Derek>
As I've only had a reef tank for about a year, I've greatly enjoyed reading your books and website - much
good information and counsel!
<Good to hear/read>
Now that you're properly primed, I have a fairly basic question regarding two tangs.  In brief, I would like
to put a Power Blue in with a Sailfin (Zebrasoma veliferum) in my big tank.
<Can be done>
I have a one year old 30 gal reef tank and a 2 month old 220 gal reef tank.  The 4" Power Blue has been in
the 30 gal tank for about 8 months - and is doing very well, if a bit cramped.  I introduced the 3.5-4"
Sailfin to the large tank about a week ago.
<Mmmm>
Fish-wise, also in the big tank, I have:
-mated pair of maroon clowns
-coral beauty
-3 Banggai cardinals (or bad guy cardinals as my 4yo
daughter calls them)
-3 Chromis
By the 5-gallons-per-square-inch-of-fish measure, I know I'm already over my mark. . .
Never the less, the advice I've been given is that I should be fine putting the PBT in with everyone else.
The argument I've heard is that the PBT and the Sailfin are different shapes, so they will cohabitate no problem.
<Likely so... with a bit of periodic jousting... especially at first>
Is this bunk, or is there actually a legit argument there?
Thank you in advance,
Derek
<Would be better if the larger communal system were a bit more aged (a few months), but there is the question of present crowding alternatively... Bob Fenner>

Re: Tang mixing question
Thank you so much for the reply.
<Welcome>
I should have mentioned that I intend to wait another few months before introducing the PBT into the big tank.  He's doing so well (abet a bit cramped) that I would hate to introduce him too quickly and lose him.
<Ahh! Very good. Bob Fenner>
Thanks again,
Derek

Re: Aggression and Fish Size  12/24/05
Thank you for the advice.
<Anytime.>
   Related to the load factor, while the Sailfin can reach 18in I would assume that this can not happen overnight considering in a year the fish has grown 2in max.  Therefore, I would think the load
factor is dependent on the size of fish today and near future not
necessarily the size the fish will be?
<This is somewhat true, but that would stance would assume that physical crowding is the only type of crowding to consider and this is simply not true.  As responsible aquarists it is important to plan for the long term (and I see you are doing this with the mention of an upgrade). Furthermore fish are not found living at this density in the wild and while you may be able keep the water parameters stable, psychologically the fish are overcrowded. The aggression you are witnessing is the proof of that. Those Zebrasoma tangs can be quite nasty, I have a 4” in a 170, and she allows no other fish near her territory.>
  While I understand that as the Blue Hippo and Sailfin mature and reach adult sizes then it would be time for me to upgrade tanks.  
Also since I have a refugium running with Chaetomorpha
does that minimize the load factor?  
<It does not minimize the load factor but it does make the nutrients created by that load easier to manage.>
I look forward to your response.  Your
sight has been very helpful.
<I’m glad you have found us useful, Adam J.>

Mixing Tangs in an 8' tank  12/12/05
Hello <Hello Kim>
As stated in my last letter, I am ordering a 96x24w x20h acrylic tank. It  
will be done in 4-6 weeks. My mind has been racing! I am so excited to be able  
to add more fish when the new tank is ready! I am combining fish from my two  
large tanks , fish include- Raccoon Butterfly, Iridis Wrasse, Candy Hogfish, 2
Ocellaris Clowns, 2 Argi that I hope will be okay with my Coral Beauty from
the  other tank,<Do add these at the same time> a Blue Devil Damsel ,and an Acanthurus Japonicus [in qt].. I
also  have an Arc eye Hawkfish that I really want to keep but I also want to
keep my  Cleaner shrimp.
Anyway, I am excited to have room in this new tank to add a couple more  
beautiful fish! It's going to be a FOWLR, I have come to except that as long as  I
have my beloved Raccoon, I can have no corals. But that's okay, I really love
my little finned friends! I love Butterflies, Tangs and Angels. I am at my
limit  on Angels and I don't think I can find another Butterfly to live  
peacefully with my Raccoon, so that leaves Tangs! Now the question is what  would be a
good mix . I already have the White Faced Tang in qt. I know he may  get
somewhat territorial. I do not want an overly aggressive Tang such as the  Purple
or Sohal [beautiful, but I like a peaceful tank] But I fear one that is  too
passive will be harassed by the White face. <All tangs can be aggressive to others of the same family.> My kids of course want a Hippo [yikes ich magnet!]<All tangs are ich magnets, some worse than others.  If properly QT'd, shouldn't be a problem.> I like the Hippo and also [ since I will finally have a large  enough tank] the Sailfin.  I worry, however, that these two Tangs may be too passive. In your expert opinion, could I keep all three of these Tangs  and
my Raccoon, in an 8' tank? <In a 200 gallon tank such as yours, you could keep the sailfin and hippo with your present tang.  If possible, try to add at the same time to minimize aggression.> If you would only chose one, which would it  be? <The hippo>
If you think another Tang might be more suitable for this mix, please  advise. <The Convict Tang would be another choice, not real pretty but they do have a good temperament and probably the easiest to keep of the Acanthurus family.>
. Your opinion is greatly appreciated! <You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
Thanks! Kim

Re: Mixing Tangs in an 8' tank  12/12/05
Thanks for your reply Salty Dog!
I decided to go with just one Tang to keep my bioload down. I think I'll go  
w/ the Hippo to make my kids happy [and add some blue to my tank] I am going
to  go ahead and get one and place it in qt for 4 weeks so I can add it at the
same  time as the White face. Keep your fingers and toes crossed for me, maybe
I'll  find one that doesn't have ick! <Keep in mind Kim that 10% weekly water changes and a good vitamin supplemented food does wonders in preventing ich.>
Thanks again, Kim <You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>

Surgeon Fish and Shrimp - Too Little Water Volume 10/25/05
I have a 20 gallon tank that has been up and running for over a year and a half. Most people say that the tank will never last but I am already propagating the corals that I have in the tank.
<Glad to hear of your success. I understand why you may have met some opposition when setting this tank up, tanks this small are usually quite unstable but with discipline you can make it work.
I would like to add maybe a shrimp or a lobster but I am afraid to since I have heard that my clown surgeon 
<Grows much too large for this system. 
will eat them if they molt. 
<A shrimp (depending on the species) would make a good inhabitant for this tank, the tang will generally leave them alone. The lobster however is not such a good idea. Most will not only outgrow your given tank but will eat smaller fish and possibly harm sessile inverts.> 
My tank stock is as follows:
one 3" clown surgeonfish
<He needs to be moved to a larger system as soon as possible.>
two Ocellaris clowns
two green star polyp coral (they were one but I propagated them)
Orange Button Polyps
Blue striped mushrooms (propagated throughout tank)
Spiny Gorgonian
hermits
turbo snails
Pencil Urchin
powerhead, protein skimmer, Coralife 24 inch light
Is it ok to add a shrimp (maybe peppermint or fire) or a lobster?
<The fire shrimp (Lysmata debelius) is probably the best choice, Adam J.> 

Re: Surgeon Fish and Shrimp - Too Little Water Volume Follow-up 10/25/05
I have another question concerning the Clown Surgeonfish. Will he be okay with a Regal Blue Tang in a 55 gallon FOWLR tank?
<Generally speaking the Clown Tang (Acanthurus lineatus) is quite aggressive and will be intolerant of other tang species, and unfortunately a 55-gallon is insufficient to house this one tang let alone another. So I would advise against it.>
If so... will he begin to change colors in that tank or does he need to be around full-grown before he changes colors?
<If we are talking about the same species (Acanthurus lineatus) I’m not sure what color change you are speaking of. Even the small juveniles I have observed have relatively the same amount of color as the adults, sometimes the horizontal lines are not as defined but generally appearance is the same, Adam J.> 

Tang with Ick Question 10/11/05 
<<Stan, some of my/other input. Cheers, BobF>>
Hello Crew: 
<Hi Stan, James here today>
I currently have a purple tang and a desjardini tang in my QT (20gal)
<<RMF would NOT mix two tang species in QT>>
which I plan on adding to my 150 gal reef system once they pass QT. They've been there for about a week and are both eating like little pigs and seem to be doing fine. I've been feeding them a
variety of foods which includes Spectrum Thera-A Anti-Parasitic Formula, Julian Sprung's Seaveggies, Ocean Nutrition Marine Pellets Formula 2, Kent Marine Platinum Reef Herbivore Fish Food which are sometimes soaked in Vita Chem. 
However, in the last couple of days, I've noticed some white spots on my purple tangs body and fins. Can't really see if the Desjardini has these same spots or not because the spots are not as contrasting as on the purple tang. I assume it's ick, or the beginning of it. So I looked here and read some articles that hyposalinity and/or a cleaner shrimp might do the trick without medications. So I added a shrimp a few days ago and then this weekend started researching how to do the hyposalinity treatment. 
<<Not with the shrimp present. RMF>>
Instead of finding out how, I found more articles claiming that hyposalinity was a waste of time and wouldn't work long term. So I guess my question is, how would one go about treating ick long term in QT? Isn't that what a QT tank is for?
<<Not really what "quarantine is for"... a period to review, observe health, behavior, possibly treat there/then... but also for "rest". RMF>>
I know everyone has different opinions, but what do most people do? Medicate? If so with what? Any help would be very much appreciated. 
<Stan, if it were me, rather then stress the fish out with hyposalinity treatment, I would treat with copper. A copper test kit is a must along with daily testing to insure an effective and safe level is kept. Recommended dose to maintain is 0.015-0.020ppm.
<<Dude! Of what? Free copper/cupric ion... PLEASE understand that there is a difference in reading/s with chelated copper and their corresponding kits. RMF>>
I would treat for a minimum of 21 days @ 80 degree temperature. The ick cyst casings are unaffected by the copper so we have to wait till all hatch out where at this stage they can be effectively killed by the copper. The ich that is embedded in the skin of the fish also is pretty much unaffected by the copper. Only in the swimming stage, after hatching and when they have to find a host, is when they are most vulnerable to copper. James (Salty Dog)>

Tang with Ick Question ? - Follow-up 10/11/05
Thanks James (Salty Dog):
OK. So a treatment with copper it is. Any recommendations as to what copper brand / type to use? Isn't there chelated or non chelated ? 
<Yes, there are chelated/non chelated types. If it were me I'd go with Aquarium Systems Sea Cure Copper treatment along with their FasTest Copper Test Kit. Fortunately for me I've never had to treat a tank in 10+ years, but if the problem arose, the above would be my choice.>
<<... three weeks... with an unchelated copper... on tangs? I would NOT do this... I'd go with two weeks, and a chelated make/model with accompanying at least daily tests. RMF>>
And I assume that I need to move the cleaner shrimp to my main tank since he won't make it thru the copper treatments right ? 
<Stan, all inverts must be removed. Google our WWM site on copper treatment for more info. James (Salty Dog)> 

Re: Tang with Ick Question ? - Follow-up 10/13/05
Thanks for the quick replies James (Salty Dog), very much appreciated. 
<You're welcome>
But I'm a bit confused here and was hoping that you could maybe point me in the right direction. 
Just as a reminder, I've left the replies back and forth as a memory refresher. After talking on Monday, I went out to my local pet stores looking for copper but could not find any, believe it or not they were all out. So I ordered it mail order that night.
Well here's the confusing thing. On Tuesday, when I checked in on them and watched them for awhile to see how they were doing, etc. I noticed that my Desjardini tang was laying on its side and the cleaner shrimp was going to town on him. After taking a closer look, I saw that the purple tang no longer had white spots on him either (this is while the lights were on). Am I going nuts ? 
<<James... respond to the question/s! Not going nuts... the "spots" are reactions... do cycle on/off... RMF>>
Unfortunately, I noticed that my Desjardini tang had a two spots missing from the top/rear of his fin. I'm guessing Mr. purple is the reason. However, when I checked on them this morning (lights still off) the purple tang looks like it has
some type of spots on it (not white), and its body was a bit discolored. The Desjardini on the other hand, seems like the spots that were missing on its fins are filling in already.
So here is my dilemma. Do I treat the tangs with copper ? 
<Stan, this treatment must last at least 21 days to be effective and are you using a test kit to insure safe and effective doses?> 
Why do I see spots one day and not the next? Will treating them, if they don't have anything be a bad idea or more harmful then good ? 
<You have gazillions of cysts laying on the bottom waiting to hatch and find a buddy. Continued treatment is necessary to kill all the hatchings.> 
And do I keep pushing my luck in trying to keep two tangs in the same tank ? I'm sure the 20gal isn't ideal but I'm hoping that the extra space in the 150 will allow them to get along. 
<The 150 should be fine, you have to accept the fact there will be occasional aggression. Its recommended that no two alike tangs be kept together.> 
I know it's pushing it. Could go either way. They could get along, with the occasional "I'm boss" reminders, or they may destroy one another.
<<This is something you NEVER want to see.  If the two tangs are also close in size, you are probably pushing it too far with their compatibility, this is not what could be considered "conscientious". MH>>
Should I separate them in the QT tank ? Should I get rid of one of them and just go with one ? 
<If the aggression gets up to the next level, then I'd probably trade one in. James (Salty Dog)>
I know there's a lot of questions here, many of which are hard to answer, with no definite yes or no. But I'd really appreciate any input that you guys might have.
Thanks in advance 
<You're welcome. Do compatibility research in the future if you are considering buying two alike fish.> 

Tang Compatibility 10/13/05
Hello Crew,
I have spent hours looking at the different FAQ pages to try not to pester you with something you have already been asked and answered, however I could not find anything regarding my specific question. I am in the midst of stocking a 220 gallon Oceanic tank (72" length); with 250 lbs. of Tonga live rock, live sand, skimmer, filter, power heads, 40 watt UV sterilizer, large wet/dry, refugium etc..
In the tank I have a 30 inch beautiful Zebra Moray, 2.5" Black Volitans, and 5.5" Bicolor Fiji Rabbitfish of which are all healthy (knock on wood). 
Question is that my next species I want to introduce are tangs and I would rather go with the species that are not quite as popular as the purples, yellows, or PB (Hippo). Instead, I want to start off with a juvenile Chevron and see if you think a Desjardini Red Sea Sailfin and a Prionurus Laticlavius (Yellow Sawtail) would get along? Also do you think these are of the hardy nature? I plan on adding them separately, although I have heard of people indicating that adding these fish at the same time is a good way of encouraging them to get along. 
My final fish will be either a Majestic or Emperor Angel once the tangs are all in and getting along. This will be a total of 7 fish for my 220 gallon tank, a good number and size? 
<Approaching the limit with the fish you are selecting. All tangs are going to be aggressive to conspecifics at times. Your large tank will help quell this behavior. It is best to add them at the same time so no one has a head start so to speak. I would discourage the yellow Sawtail as they are really nothing to look at and get quite large along with the fact you may have difficulty even finding one. I also would not suggest two of the same kind. 
I fulfilled a dream of having a school of yellow tangs (15 years ago) in a 220 FOWL. I purchased all juveniles at the same time. Initially a very striking display, then (within 1 month) the low man on the totem pole would get the hell knocked out of him till the fish finally died. Then the next and the next and the next.....Since the rockwork was so intense I had to force myself to strip down the insides just to net out the four remaining fish and return to my understanding dealer. Just a word of caution to others who may read this on the FAQ's. James (Salty Dog)>
Your thoughts are greatly appreciated and I really appreciate your dedication and knowledge! 
<Thank you Steven> 

Tang Compatibility  10/6/05
Hi, thanks for all of the help your site has given me over the years. You recently helped me move a 125g
aquarium over 800 miles with no casualties. <Well it wasn’t me but I’m sure it was another one of our talented crew members.> I was very excited. Back to the question at hand, I have a 125g FOWLR, approximately 125lbs. of LR, 20g sump, DSB, and
inhabitants include one 6-7 inch blue bird wrasse and one 4 inch White faced tang Acanthurus japonicus. My
fish have been doing excellent since the move, eating everything they can, even my fingers sometimes.  <Glad to here it.>  I have read through several FAQs about mixing tangs together and the rule seems to be 1 or 3+ of not conspecifics.  < A nice guideline but always a guarantee.>
This being said, what is a conspecific of the Acanthurus japonicus?  <Generally anything else in the Acanthurus genus or any fish that your current inhabitant views as a competitor, which could include other tangs or similar shaped/color specimens.>  Is it fish in the same family,
genera, etc?  <See above.> I really enjoy the Naso tangs along with the Desjardinii tangs, but I would not add them if trouble would persist with my current selection. <Both of these grow quite large. The Naso at 24” needs a 180-gallon tank as an adult.  The Desjardinii at 15” needs a tank in the 150 gallon range.  Our current set-up would be “pushing” it.> I do know that the Desjardinii get quite large and would upgrade systems when it became necessary. What types of tangs could I mix in with my two fish as of now?
<I’ll start by saying there is no guarantee that 2 tangs will get along within your confines. Having said that I would look for one in the Ctenochaetus (bristle-tooth) genus, as in my experience they are the most “mellow” of the surgeons.  The Naso Genus just gets to big for your set-up.
Zebrasoma Genus would be my second choice, keeping in mind they can be quite territorial. If you plant to add another tang, then yes, I would consider an upgrade in the future. Of course there are fish other than tangs; Butterflies, Rabbitfish or Centropyge Angles anyone?>
Thanks in advance for all the help.
<No trouble.>
Sincerely,
Brian
<Adam Jackson.>

True Perc Clownfish compatibility, behavior, and tang f' 9/30/05
Hi Gang:
<Ray>
I had two True Percs in my 72 gallon system for several months now. A couple of weeks ago, I came home to find the larger one on the floor dead. Oh no a jumper!! Very bummed out at losing this prized clownie.
<Happens...>
I purchased a new True Perc last night from the LFS and upon introducing him (her) to the tank, the new clownie and the smaller clownie began quarreling heavy. Locking mouths and tugging at each other.
<Common... a good idea/technique to separate for a few days in such a way that the new/old can see, smell each other, but not physically interact... an all plastic "breeding net", floating colander...>
This went on for a little while and then they seemed to calm down. But they are still both wary of each other and flap tails at each other in passing. Is this their way of establishing dominance and will this behavior subside once they're used to each other?
<Up to them... if there's "enough" room... time, not substantial damage... again, better to separate>
Another interesting note is that the smaller one that has been in the tank for a long time finally started hosting in my BTA which he has ignored forever.
<Yes... related events>
Both have been a part of the community for a long time.
I've also considered removing the both of them, and re-acclimating them back into the tank at the same time. A technique that has worked for me with tangs in the past.
<Ahh! Worth trying. Thank you for this tip>
Thanks As Always  ...
Raymond DeMartini Jr.
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Tang mixing  9/19.5/05
<Adam J here with you tonight>
I have  a 55 gallon tank with 2 clowns soon to be with an anemone,
<Just FYI the clowns can live long and happy lives without the anemone, they can also adjust to other surrogate hosts such as leather corals, make sure you read up on anemones in the WWM FAQs before taking the plunge>
a bullet goby, cleaner shrimp, and mandarin dragonet. i had a sailfin tang but recently
it died and i still don't know why, I only had it for 2 months and it showed no signs of dying.
<sorry to hear of your loss>
I am wondering if i add a blue hippo tang and a sailfin together while they are still small would they get along
<It is possible they could “get along” but I must advise against adding a tang to a tank of this size, both of the fish you listed have at least a 12” potential, one tang alone needs a 100 US gallons minimum>
and also i heard that one might become more dominant
<This is possible and in my experience it would be the sailfin who becomes the aggressor, but again I would add neither to your tank>
so is there something i could do to minimize there fighting (if any?)
<Simultaneous addition to a tank can minimize aggression between these fish but not always>
such as add another power head, i already have 2, or add more live rock hiding places.
<see above, thanks for the e-mail, Adam J>

Mixing Tangs, lights for an LTA 8/29/05
i have a very small sailfin tang in my 55 gallon tank along with 2 perculas
clowns, a
bullet goby, and a cleaner shrimp. I want to know if i add a blue hippo tang
would it
fight with the sailfin because i would also like to add a yellow tang but i
would much rather have the blue hippo. also is a 260watt light enough power for
an LTA
<... The Sailfin will grow too large for this tank... your compatibility and lighting questions are answered, archived on WWM... learn to/use the indices and/or Google search tool there. Bob Fenner>

Tangling With One More Tang? 8/22/05
Hello Crew,
<Hi there! Scott F. here today!>
Do you think I could add 2 yellow Tangs to my tank? I have 120 reef Tank with 1 Yellow Tang, 1 Hippo, 2 Percula Clowns, 1 Flame Angel, Royal Gramma, 2 Firefish. I thought about adding just one, but reading the FAQs adding 2 is recommended.
Dr. E
<Well, your tank is pretty well stocked in the Tang department, IMO. The Hippo can and will reach a large size, and needs a significant amount of space to accommodate it for a normal life span. Yellow Tangs, too, need lots of space for a long, healthy life. Adding another Tang to the mix can be problematic for the tank, and may or may not be tolerated by the resident Yellow Tang. Personally, I'd pass on the Tang and opt for a few smaller fishes, like Blennies, Halichoeres  species Wrasses, or Gobies. The addition of these smaller guys could round out your population and not over-tax the system. Hope this helps! Regards, Scott F.>

A Tale Of Two Tangs (In Too Small A Tank) - 08/15/05
I have a 55 gallon tank.  The order I got my fish were: blue hippo tang now 3 inches, solon fairy wrasse now 4 inches, yellow tang now 6 inches, flame angel now 5 inches, and flame hawkfish now 4 inches.
<<You're overstocked my friend.>>
I had originally gotten the yellow tang because the blue tang was constantly pestering the fairy wrasse.  Nothing aggressive, but just following him almost as if trying to school and the wrasse wanted no part of this.  The problem I'm having is that the yellow tang has taken over the tank.  He is constantly going after the flame angel using his tail to back him into a corner.  He has already intimidated the other fish to be in constant hiding.  When I put him in a lee's fish net breeder to see if a "time out" would work the other fish became more active.  But once released he went back to his aggressive ways.  He was in the isolation breeder for a week.  Is there anything else I can do to calm him down or is he just too big and dominant for the size tank and fish in it?
<<BINGO!  The Hippo Tang will quickly outgrow (to 12") this tank as well.  Neither tang is suitable for this tank in the long term...do see about swapping them with your LFS for store credit and research/purchase fish more suitable to spending a lifetime in your system.>>
Thanks for your help
<<Regards, EricR>>

Even 300 Gallons Can Be "Small" - 08/22/05
Yes, I know. The Yellow and the Naso were rescues from a poor vendor in Toronto.  I am surprised how well they have done.
<<me too>>
My fiancée and I are building a new house and we are incorporating an Aquarium room.
<<sweet!>>
I am having a 300 gallon acrylic tank made for one wall by a
company in Minnesota.
<<Getting closer.>>
It will be the main display reef and I am thinking of using the 180 as a seahorse and kelp setup.
<<Very nice.>>
I don’t think the tangs will grow too much in the next 9 months.
<<No...likely due to developmental retardation...>>
Thanks again.
Ps. Do you know of anyone who has made a reef out of a swimming pool? I thought this could be a nice project to have a 20000 gallon system under a greenhouse so that one could swim with the display.        
<<Have heard of such, more recently a new construction discussed on RC...and once saw pics of a 7,000 gallon outdoor "lagoon" system with a giant viewing window in the basement(?) wall of a home in Hawaii...fabulous!  Regards, EricR>>

Compatibility: Anthias, Tangs, etc. 8/9/05
Hey Crew! :-)
<Jenn>
I had a couple of questions on compatibility.  First off, my tank will be 225-gallons with a large sump and a "sensible" amount of live rock.  Not into the "rock wall" thing some aquarists have going, I like more of a loosely packed "tunnel-ly cave" idea.
<Okay>
First questions relate to Anthias.  I'd like to have several in my tank as a focal point.  Rather than one individual of many types of fishes, I'd like to play around with a few species, and keep them in pairs or schools.  For Anthias, I was wondering what a comfortable number would be for a school, considering the space?  
<Depending on the species... a trio to a dozen or more>
Other fishes would be gobies, tangs, a pair of clowns, and perhaps some Genicanthus sp. angels.  Also, WILL the Anthias school in the aquarium??  
<Most species, yes... some are not schoolers>
Lastly (relating to Anthias) in a tank this size would two species co-habitate as they do on the reef?
<Could>
If so, then which two species might I have the best luck with?
<Many choices... best to use WWM, fishbase.org and pick out two that you can get, that are found in the same geographic area, habitat...>
If not, then how many MALES of one species are likely to establish themselves in a tank this size without encroaching on one another's' territory?
<One of each species>
Okay second batch relates to tangs.  I know the general consensus is one tang per species per tank.  But lately I've happened across several tanks with 2 or more Acanthurus tangs in them, not to mention other species of tangs... and I've seen SEVERAL tanks with two to three Zebrasoma sp.  Now, aside from the fact that this is impossible (hehe) how is it best/safely accomplished?
<Adding all at once, when small, and/or adding new ones that are much smaller...>
I'm thinking an achilles and a powder blue...
<Not easily kept...>
But if I can't be satisfied they'll live long, happy lives, then I'll opt for a regal instead of the powder blue and go that route.  So this is more of an exploratory question, as I'm wondering how so many other people do it successfully. :-)
Thanks!
Jenn
<Is done... often... with space, hiding places... enough food. Bob Fenner>

Tangs, maintenance 7/15/05
Am I correct in my assumption that unless a person has a GIANT tank, a Blue Hippo Tang and a Blonde Naso Tang should not be put together?
<Define "huge"... a Naso tang should not be kept in a system of less than six foot length... in this size system, a Paracanthurus should get along fine>
I am trying to convince a fellow tank owner, but want to be certain before I really speak up.
<I see>
Also, I have these little white fuzzy barrel type looking things growing everywhere in my tank. They look like something that copepods hatch from or perhaps.  They even grow on my urchins occasionally.
Is it possible for one to grow on a fish?
<Uh, no>
I have a yellow tang and he seems to have one on his fin.  He has no other signs of disease.  At first I thought it was ich but it doesn't appear any where else, and my other fish don't show any signs of anything.  It looks just like the little copepod pods that grow in my tank, but he is so mobile that it doesn't seem like that could happen.  Plus I have a cleaner shrimp who I would have thought would remove it by now.
Thoughts/suggestions?
<Keep reading... WWM... books>
Thanks you guys are great,
Tim
<And Strunk and White. Bob Fenner>

More Tangs (7-12-05)
I have a 120 g with room for more fish.  I have a 5" Sailfin tang and I want to add blue and yellow tangs. Should I add 1 of each or more and  what sizes would be best?
< I hate to put a damper on your plans but I would not advise adding any other tangs to this tank.  These fish should be placed last due to issues of territoriality.  So the addition of any new fish will most likely prove difficulty, with your Sailfin already well established in the tank. Here is a quote from Bob’s article on Sailfin Tangs http://www.wetwebmedia.com/zebrasom.htm
“Sailfins are better to keep just one individual of one species to a system . They can and will fight with their species and other tangs, seriously damaging other similar appearing fishes, even in tanks of hundreds of gallons. Should you be determined to keep more than one Zebrasoma or con-specifics together, do purchase them as a group, from the same dealer’s tank, and introduce them all at once. Per tang territoriality, these fishes should be placed last, affording their tank-mates time to assert space for themselves.”
You would be best to either leave well enough alone or if you are determined to add additional fish you can try rearranging the rockwork and décor or removing the Tang for a short while prior to introducing any new additions. Sorry for the disappointing news, Leslie>

Tang and Rabbitfish fighting
I have a 90 gal Reef Tank with powerful filtration, excellent water quality
and few fish. < Without seeing your tank I bet it could use more filtration and more water movement. >
The list of my livestock are as follows (in order of purchase): true percula clown pair, midas blenny, three green clown gobies, green mandarin pair, yellow mimic tang, and my newest purchase magnificent Rabbitfish. All fish are under four inches in length and my tank has been running for about a year with few (if any) problems. My biggest problem is an aggressive Mimic Tang that is very mean to my new Rabbitfish. < Natural to see during the first few days. > I have only had the rabbit for one day. I am concerned that the mimic might not "chill out" because of what I have read involving arcanthius (sp?) targeting similar fishes and not letting up until they are dead. < It is a risk you take, but with a large tank (and hopefully lots of algae) the fish will learn that they don't need to fight and that there is plenty of room. >
I did not predict this to be a problem because of the poison spines of the rabbit, I thought the Tang wouldn't want to mess with that. If I have to remove one of the fish, that would be an "all night" project. (probably have to take the tank apart....corals and rock structure look great, don't want to do
that.) < That would just cause more stress.  Try turning the lights off for a day or two and adding more algae. >
What do you think? Is it likely this tang will accept this new rabbit? < Yes, I think in 4 days in a tank that size things will work out. > Or is this going to be a major problem? My tang has shown aggression to other tank mates, but nothing like this. Usually he just chases them away for a second, and then things go back to normal....    It's only been one day, but the Tang seems VERY determined to prove the point that he doesn't want the rabbit in there. I have had the Tang for about six months...I normally don't buy fish often. Usually coral. So, that's why there's a big gap between purchases. < A good practice. >
Any suggestions? < Give it time, and food. >
Thanks for any helpful Info you might provide.
<  Blundell  >

Tang Compatibility
Howdy Crew,
Read through the entire compatibility section on tangs and didn't find what I was looking for, so I wanted to pop in with a quick question. I have a 105G (48LX18WX30H) there is a Purple Tang (4.5") about to celebrate his first captive birthday, and I was hoping for your thoughts on adding a similar sized Naso lituratus. My purple is a pretty peaceful
guy, usually puts on an aggression display to new comers and then backs off. 
Recently I bought a smaller yellow tang that had been at the LFS for about three weeks and was wasting away so badly that I took it home and tried to nurse it back. It didn't work, however after only a slight bit of tail picking the purple would share a veggie clip with the yellow. Anyhow, your prediction on compatibility is what I was shooting for, any ideas? 
<Tank size is very important for this to work. Since they are different species, there will be less aggression. I would not do this in anything less than a 100 gallon tank, and not a "tall" 100. James (Salty Dog)> 

Tangs in combination 15 May 2005
Hi Gang, 
<Hey Brandon, MacL here with you today.>
Instead of the usual problems reported, I thought I'd post something positive and see if it will last in the opinion of the board. I have a 125G reef tank. The first fish in the tank was a tiny P. hepatus. He very quickly has quadrupled in size. I then added a similarly sized Z. xanthurum. They got along very well, and oddly enough, the more docile of the two, the hepatus, is the boss of the tank. The supposedly belligerent purple tang follows the hepatus around in a schooling fashion. 
<For now, these guys get more ummm feisty as they grow up.> 
Only occasionally do they tail-slap at each other, and only at feeding time. I have always thought the A. leucosternon was a beautiful fish, so I took a calculated risk and added a third tang to this tank. It is the same size as the other two. I am happy to mention that everyone seems to tolerate the other. I've watched the behavior carefully for 24 hours now, and they all ignore each other. On several occasions, all three are inches from each other, just kind of hovering in place. No aggression, no fanning, no chasing or tail slapping. I am very excited about this. 
<Sounds wonderful but I'm terribly afraid that as they grow and they begin to demand their own territory things might change. It would be wise to be ever diligent of this.>
Question is, can I expect this peace to last based on the first couple of days in the tank? 
<I think you'll be fine for a while. Just be sure and give them all their own space and room.> 

Tang compatibility
I am sure this question is here somewhere but I cannot find it. I have had my aquarium set up for about a year now. Initially did fine until I upset my blue tang. It got ich and I lost all fish. Being new, did not know that I  had to wait weeks before adding more fish so I continued to lose more fish  to ich. My tank is now great and am trying again. I have had a yellow tang and  two Clownfishes for a couple of months now and was ready for my blue tang. I added it today and the yellow tang started attacking it. How can I help them adjust. I really do want to keep both. I do not want any more fish just corals and inverts. <Read here.  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/paraccompfaqs.htm  James (Salty Dog)>

Tang Aggression
Thanks for responding and I did read all on that link but still did not  find my answer on how to help the yellow tang and blue hippo tang adjust to  each other. they are different shapes so I though they were supposed to be  
compatible. <Tank volume is going to be your best asset in keeping these guys from territorial disputes.  More nooks and crannies will help some, also.  Generally speaking, if tangs are from different families, they generally get along if tank size is sufficient.  I don't believe you mentioned the size of your tank.  James (Salty Dog)>

Powder Blue & Yellow Tang - 05/07/05
Hey WWM,
<Hey>
Your site is very helpful, got in the hobby during December and your advice helped tremendously.  My question is that I have an 80 gallon tank with 120 lbs live rock, corals, and a Euro reef skimmer.  I have a yellow tang, 1 false perc clown, 2 sand sifting gobies, and 3 Chromis.  I bought a powder blue tang from the LFS, and since he acclimated and was introduced to the main tank, the yellow tang has been non stop fighting with it, the powder tang, is hiding in a corner, and barely appears to have the confidence to swim around.  They are the same size roughly, but should I return the fish, for its life sake, or will this come to pass over time.
<Return the powder-blue to the store.  Your tank is too small for these two tangs in the long term, and the aggression you're witnessing will likely end badly for one or both fishes (physical injury or disease from stress).  Do research/plan your purchases better in the future my friend.>
Thank you for your support.
<Regards, Eric R.

Safe Reef Tang?
Hi Bob,
<Hello>
Is it safe for a Acanthurus auranticavus ( Ring-Tail Tang ) to eat zoos, soft coral and hard coral? 
Thanks, Zul
< Ring-tail Tang on fishbase.org A species rarely found in the trade in the U.S. .. Should be safe to mix in a large system. I give you a good 80-90 percent chance that it will only pick around your cnidarians. Bob Fenner>

Mixing Tangs, again
I was wanting to ask if the brown scopas tang and the yellow-eyed tang would
be a ok combination together.
<Could, but better to mix two different genera of acanthurids in small volumes, if at all>
I have a 75 gallon tank with live rock that has
been set up for 4 months with no problems. in the tank I have 2 blue damsels
unfortunately 1 of those will have to go back as they get bigger they are
aggressive to each other. anyway then I have the brown scopas, 1 clown, 1 scooter
blenny, star fish and 2 shrimp. there is good algae growth I also feed a good
combination of foods. Any insight on these two tangs would be appreciated greatly,
thank you.
Lori
<Please take a read here re this issue:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/tangcompfaqs.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Tang Compatibility
I have a 360 gallon aquarium (6 feet long, 4 feet deep, 2 feet tall) and I would like to get some tangs. However, I don't want to cause problems between the tangs. I'm interested in the Hippo Blue Tang, Chevron Tang, and the Atlantic Blue Tang. Will these live together peacefully? Also, I know if you buy Hippo Blue Tangs together and add them together that normally they are ok with each other. Are Atlantic blue tangs the same way? How long does it take for a Atlantic blue tang to grow from juvenile to Adult? How long does it take the Chevron Tang to grow from juvenile to adult? Thanks for your help! 
<Steve, here is a link for you to read. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/tangcompfaqs.htm  As a rule tangs of the same family generally do not get along with one another. Scott Michael has a good book (Marine Fishes) that does provide good information on compatibility. James (Salty Dog)>