Royal Gramma aggression against Pacific Blue Tang (Follow up) 8/15/05
Thanks, Leslie.  
<Hi Bekha, Your very welcome!!!>
By the time I got home last night, my husband had
already rearranged the rocks <My kinda guy ☺!> and everyone was behaving themselves. <That’s great news!>
He said that as soon as the rocks were rearranged, they settled down to ignoring each other.  This morning, it was the same - no flank nipping, no aggression, nothing.  Everyone ignored everyone else.
<That’s wonderful. I am glad it worked for you. I am sure the fish, especially the Tang, are happier.>
It looks like the rearranging of the rock did it's job, but we're keeping an eye on them just the same.
<Always a good plan.>
I have to admit, I really wasn't looking forward to rearranging the rocks and removing them to get a fish out of there!
<I certainly do not blame you. It is a messy job! If you want to re do the aquascaping that’s one thing but to have to, to remove a  misbehaving fish is another story.  If we see any more aggression, we'll snag the aggressor and put into QT for a week.
<Excellent plan.>
But from the looks of things this morning, all looked well.
<What a relief eh?>
I'm attaching a pic of the tank now (I actually like the way he
rearranged the rocks!) Bekah Rogers
<Wow not only is your husband thoughtful, he’s talented as well. Best of luck with your tank, Leslie>

Tang and Clown Questions... 7/12/05
Crew,
I have a 90 gallon tank, with a small Naso Tang, maroon clown, black and
white damsel, 2 cleaner shrimp, 3 small hermit crabs.  Please help with
some questions...
Will a Pacific Yellow Tang be ok to add to this complement?
<Likely so>
If not, what about a Threadfin butterfly?
<Would likely fit>
I read some WWM info and it
says that they eat (worms, snails, crustaceans),  would my small hermit
crabs be eaten?
<Not likely... the most probable source of trouble will be interaction with your Maroon>
I am considering buying another Maroon clown since I have seen some pairs
in my LFS, but I have read that they can be aggressive towards other
clowns.  
<And other life>
Is it common to add a larger Maroon to create a pair or are they
caught as a pair?
<Best to purchase small... tank bred and reared... and have grow up together... Unless in very large systems, there is often behavioral trouble with adding another. Bob Fenner>
Thanks,
Nathan

Aggressive Hippo
I have had a saltwater tank up and running for about 8 months.  I have added the following inhabitants (in the following order): 1" Percula Clown, 3" Sailfin Tang and 4" Hippo Tang, and a 3" Niger Trigger.  My tank is a 55 gallon (4ft long) with an Aquaclear mechanical filter, CPR BakPak (I have been thinking about upgrading to the Remora C based on your recommendations),
<Mmm, a good investment... for a larger tank... which I strongly believe you'll end up with>
2 Maxi Jet 600 (160gph), 50lbs liverock, and 40lbs of reef grade sand (About 1.5" depth).  I also have a serpent star, a red Linckia, 1 sea cucumber, 1 mushroom coral, 10 Nassarius snails, and 6 hermit crabs.  My tank parameters are 1.022, 9dkh, 8.2, 0 Nitrates, 78 degrees (Night) to 79 degrees (Day).  I change about 3 gallons a week and add Kent's Trace Elements, Prime, and Kent's Superbuffer.
Since I have added the Niger Trigger (About a week ago), my Hippo has been harassing him constantly.  I had always assumed that the Niger was going to be the more aggressive fish.
<Not being new, not in such a small system>
The Hippo has a few scrapes on the side of him (Small white lines that are like bite marks), but the Niger Trigger's fins are jagged and he was cowering in the corner for the first couple of days.  With time, will the Hippo stop harassing the Niger?
<Maybe... I'd isolate the Tang (put in in a floating plastic colander for a few days) and see if this helps>
What do you think the odds of success are with these inhabitants?
<Mmm, fifty fifty, with small level of confidence limits>
Also, how long do you think they will be okay in this size system?
<Not okay now...>
Finally, what size tank would you recommend for these inhabitants long term (Over the life of the fish)?
<Two, three times this size>
Also, do you think the Percula will need an anemone to be happy with these inhabitants?
<Nope>
Thanks for the help.  I have been reading your site and found it to be very informative.  One final question, do you think UV lights are worth the investment for parasite or bacteria reduction?  
<In some settings, yes... not as worthwhile in yours as what you might otherwise invest your money and time in...>
In the beginning, I had some minor issues with parasites due to lack of understanding of the parasite life cycle (I did not wait long enough during treatment before moving the fish to the main tank).
<Very common human/aquarist experience. Glad to find your intelligence, perseverance has won out over simply quitting, giving up. Bob Fenner>

Tang compatibility
<Your 55 gallon tank isn't large enough for two tangs even if they weren't fighting. As they grow, they will quickly run out of room. This certainly adds to the aggression you are seeing. James (Salty Dog)>
I am sure this question is here somewhere but I cannot find it. I have had my aquarium set up for about a year now. Initially did fine until I upset my blue tang. It got ich and I lost all fish. Being new, did not know that I had to wait weeks before adding more fish so I continued to lose more fish to ich. My tank is now great and am trying again. I have had a yellow tang and two Clownfishes for a couple of months now and was ready for my blue tang. I added it today and the yellow tang started attacking it. How can I help them adjust. I really do want to keep both. I do not want any more fish just corals and inverts. 
<Read here. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/paraccompfaqs.htm James (Salty Dog)> 

Pacific Blue Tang and a Lawnmower Blenny having "issues"
To begin, please allow me to compliment your staff on their knowledge, accuracy and well researched articles regarding numerous marine aquarium subjects. I have come to rely exclusively on your site before making any decisions about my reef.
<Thank you for your kind, encouraging words... but please don't rely on just us... even though we are a substantial number, and diverse in our opinions...>
I have a 75 gallon reef (four feet long) with about 80 pounds of live rock, 60 lbs or so of live sand, Caulerpa and shaving brush macro algae. One Pacific Blue Tang (about 2 inches or so), three "Lime" Chromis (so says the LFS where purchased, but they don't match pictures/descriptions available...they behave like Chromis and they think the Tang is a Chromis and they try to school with him whenever possible), and a medium sized (about 3 inches long) Lawnmower Blenny purchased with some algae eating snails and Emerald Crabs. The Tang and Chromis came first and after the algae was more established the Lawnmower Blenny et al. The tang eats absolutely everything and I make sure to provide him with additional supplements of vitamins and dried seaweed (which he loves). He also likes to nibble on the Caulerpa (which I put in there for him and to utilize
nitrates). When I added the Blenny, the Tang became very curious about the Blenny and tends to hover over him. If he sees the Blenny on a rock he rushes over to the rock and gets very close to the Blenny. Sometimes he rubs himself sideways on the Blenny. The Blenny does his best to ignore him and usually moves to another rock, but I'm wondering if I can anticipate problems in the future. Thus far, both fish are healthy and eating well and have the nice rounded shapes to prove it. Will the Tang get worse as he gets bigger?
<Likely will get "better", more tolerant of the blenny... they're having a bit of antagonism bordering on detente action right now... quite natural... as both utilize the same sorts of foods, space in the wild... resource partitioning behavior is one fancy term>
The Blenny is starting to stand up for himself a little (his movements in the Tang's direction usually send the tang scurrying back to his resting place). They have been together for about a month now and the behavior seems to be rather consistent. Thus far neither fish has actually touched the other (except for the rubbing thing) but I would like to know your thoughts. The research that I had done on these Tangs indicated aggressive behavior with other Tangs but not really other fish/invertebrates.
Thank you for your consideration to my question.
Pam Cradic
<All will very likely be fine with time going by... as you noted re the Damsels, most fishes are rather "autistic" in terms of self-recognition (no mirrors?)... and these two fishes will soon identify as conspecifics. Bob Fenner>

Re: Pacific Blue Tang and a Lawnmower Blenny having "issues"
Dear Mr. Fenner,
Thank you so much for your response...I am relieved. One more question...if you were to choose a tank mate for the Pacific Blue Tang, what would it be?  (preferably something that doesn't eat corals, or invertebrates). I would like to add one more fish and though there are many and varied opinions, they are almost too many and too varied.
<Almost>
My first thought would be another Tang, as they are just so much fun, but I certainly don't want any battles or chasing (too stressful for the fish...too stressful for me). Your advice would be appreciated.
Regards,
Pam Cradic
<Perhaps a pygmy dwarf angel of one species or another. C. argi, C. aurontonotus... Bob Fenner>

Re: questions about blue tang biology
Dear WWM Crew,
<Elizabeth>
I'm doing a report/project on the (Pacific) blue tang (Paracanthurus hepatus) and can't find some particular info off the net (I haven't been able to find very many good books, either). First; what natural enemies/predators does the blue tang have?
<I imagine the "usual suspects" like larger basses/groupers, sharks, triggerfishes...>
Second; what is its current population?
<Try looking up this species distribution et al. on fishbase.org
You can use the common name... or scientific if you know which blue tang this is...>
If you could answer these questions it would be unbelievably helpful to me and I would be ETERNALLY GRATEFUL to you. The project is due Tuesday, Jan.18 2005, so if you could get back to me before then I would rejoice extensively.
Thank you a great deal,
Elizabeth Shearer

A 3" and a 5" Hippo
Hi,
I've read that tangs are better off as either a single or a group of 3 or more.>Yes, in a very large tank<  However, many people seem to have 2 Hippos without problems.>The hippos aren't quite as nasty together as two yellow tangs would be<  We have a 5" Hippo in one tank and a 3 - 4" inch in another.  A yellow tang will be the only other tang, and we plan to add her after the Hippo (or hopefully, Hippos).>Add the hippos first, then a few days later add the yellow tang< We're combining tanks to one large 70" long x 30" wide system (200+ tank with a 90 gallon sump and refugium).  We have 150 lbs of live rock, but a lot of room was intentionally left for swimming.  I know there are no guarantees, but do you think there is a chance that the 2 would get along well in the same system (long term)?  If it is almost certain to cause long-term stress, we will get rid of one (just really hate to if not necessary as they are both pets).>In a 200 gallon system, two hippos and one yellow should be OK, but you really should add another 50 lbs of rock unless you have supplemental wet/dry filtration<  Thanks,
Doug

Adding a palette tang
    Hi I have a new tank it's a 125gal tank that has been up since the
first of August. I have a firefish, glass goby, small blue damsel,2 percula
clowns
, 3 small royal grammas, and 2 camel shrimp. I have a 30 gallon sump
with a 200gal ability  ASM-g skimmer. I have a 800 gallon per hour
powerhead that I leave on most of the time (except when feeding).
I take a powerhead and get any sediment that the currents didn't get up
every day. I was wondering if a palette tang would be alright in the tank.
I'm not getting it right away, I would like the algae and live rock to grow a
little more.
I also might get a ultraviolet light system if needed. thanks Jonathan
<Should be fine. Bob Fenner>

Hippo tang
Hiya Bob and crew!
Hope none of ya have to work too hard this weekend!  Any who I wrote in awhile back about a hippo (P. hepatus) I had rescued in terrible shape, he is big fat healthy fella now :-)  I originally intended to sell him but, I love this fish, appropriately named Rocky.  So naturally I had to buy another tank!  The thing is that I have a another hippo in a different tank and now would like to join them together in the larger tank.  The fish are about 5-6" and the other is at least 7".
The tank is still cycling and I intend to add a snowflake, a pair of tomato's and a teeny Volitans before introducing the hippos.  Hoping the others will be a bit of distraction?  Planning on adding them at night at the same time w veggie clips at each end of the tank.
Please let me know your thoughts on this and any suggestions you may have! <This may or may not work....I would try it and if their is any aggression you can always remove one of them. I tried the same thing with my 14" Naso Vlamingi and my little 6" Juvenile...and all is great...they are side by side 24-7. Good luck, IanB>
Thanks again!
Amanda

Hippo tang and Dogface 
<Hi J.R, Mac here>
  First, I have to say that I enjoy your website and search it often for
information. <Always nice to hear.>  I am usually reading about others' questions, but now I am in need of help/advice.  My Hippo Tang has gotten into the habit of biting my other fish. <Rut row>  At first, I thought she was harmlessly imitating my small Black and White Heniochus who likes to eat off of the other fish.  I just added a Dogface Puffer two days ago, and I have noticed the Hippo biting the Puffers fins.  One fin has several bites out of it. <So serious enough fighting that there are hurts being inflicted.>  My Yellow Tang also has two recent nips in its fins.  Have you ever heard of a Hippo with this kind of behavior?  <Actually I have heard of tangs attacking other fish. I don't believe it is all that common but they have been known to kill other  fish.> Its easier for me to accept this between the two Tangs, because they do have the occasional tail-duel.  <Territorial battles.> I would like to think the Hippo is only asserting its position in the tank to the Dogface and that this initiation will pass, but I don't want the Dogface to suffer and potentially die.  <It is very possible that there is just a minor territorial scuffle going on, however, if you have any battling going on in your tank it opens up potential problems.  Stress related problems such as ich, etc. I would indeed watch what is going on very carefully >Will this behavior pass, or should I take other action?  <You don't mention here the size of your tank and whether or not you can possibly separate the fish.  It really concerns me when there is what sounds like problematic fighting going on in the tank for all species.  I would seriously suggest separating these fish or perhaps taking the one causing all the problems out and placing in a separate tank.>
  Thanks for your help.

Blue tang aggression 19 Aug 2004
Thank you very much for your reply. <Hi Ian, MacL here on the follow-up.> We followed your advise by isolating our puffer and commencing medication. He and we are much happier! <Very nice to hear that!> It was our regal blue tang that was attacking him. Since our puffer has been taken out, the blue tang has started to attack the other fish by once again nipping at their tails. <Regal tangs are fairly known for doing this.  You haven't mentioned what size tank you have, is it large? Does the tang have lots of swimming room? These fish get, for lack of a better word, "bored" easily, they need swimming room and room through thing and under things. The need Caulerpas and other types of algae to be constantly grazing on. If you don't have any of that you might consider hanging strips of Nori every couple of days.> What has caused this change? <It is worse because the aggressive tactics worked. He got rid of one fish now its others.> We would like to keep our blue tang, but not at the expense of all the other fish in
the tank. Can you help? We want our puffer back.. <Once again how big is the tank? How is it aquascaped, you can make changes there that might make a huge difference. Let me know please, MacL>
Once again, many thanks.

Baby Blue hippo Tangs
Hi Guys!
Great Website
Just a quick question I got a 280 gallon tank with a 5/6 inch Hippo tang in it already. I was at a local pet shop and a saw a schooling group of fat and I mean Fat Baby Hippo tangs. There were 4 of them and they are all about an inch. I was just wondering if it was safe to add them or would the big hippo try to kill them or even eat them. Any advice would be appreciated as the store has them on hold for me. Thanks, Jay
<Hippo, Palette, Pacific Yellow Tail Blue Tangs... Paracanthurus (hepatus) is one of the few "exceptions" to the general rule of Tang conspecific aggression... likely the newcomer/s would do fine with your existing one. Have you seen here?: http://www.WetWebMedia.com/paracant.htm
Bob Fenner>

Stocking question
Hey there WWM crew - I would like your thoughts on some additional fish I am considering.
<I'm a'thinkin'>
I currently have a 55 gallon tank (w/separate refugium) that has a percula clownfish, hepatus tang, and sixline wrasse
- all long-time inhabitants (18-24 months).
<The Hepatus will outgrow this tank in short order. The Hepatus that I had got really mean after a little more than a year. In fact, it got so bad I was forced to trade him in at the LFS for store credit>
I am thinking about adding another percula clownfish and a trio of Talbot's damsels.  
<Trade in the Hepatus, skip the additional percula and add the trio of damsels>
I am wondering if this is too many damsel-like fish for this size tank?
<The Hepatus is what worries me>
Also, my hepatus tang nips at the tail of the wrasse a bit, and I am
hoping a few more fish might give him a few more targets and make
everyone happier...?
<Opps...Trouble in paradise! Nope...Don't count on calming this guy down by adding more fish. In fact, I predict that it will make the problem even worse. Your tank is very small for the Hepatus and his reaction to all these other fishes will be large. How do you feel when you're in a very crowded room for a long amount of time?>   
Is this a sign he's getting too big for the tank (about 4-5" now)?  
<It's not just about size...He needs lots of room to roam and forage. Clowns and wrasses in the wild tend to stake out areas and stay there...The Hepatus doesn't do this and that's why your tank is small and will become too small in the near future>
Other than this he seems behaviorally perfectly happy (bought captive reared).  
<Hum...Never knew tangs could be tank reared. Live and learn I guess...>
And of course I really have no clue if he's a
"he" ;].
<Neither do I!>
Thanks - Keith
<You're welcome! David Dowless>

Blue tang attacking shrimp and Sailfin that lost his color
I have a hippo tang that I have had for 2 years. He has been pestering
my cleaner and fire shrimp. He has bitten their antennas , and now they
are very short. The shrimp have to hide from him so they don't get to
enjoy the tank What should I do? <I would remove either the Blue Tang or the two shrimp-because I don't think the tang will stop biting them> Also, I have a Sailfin tang, desjardinii,  that doesn't have any blue background color, he is tan. Is there any food that brings out the more
blue color, or any special light? <I would feed him Nori, and vitamin enriched food> Does he get more blue-gray with age? He is only three inches.<since he is such a small specimen I wouldn't be too concerned, but make sure to feed him food with vitamins and algae>
Thanks, Cheryl

Reef-safe Tangs 6/15/03
Thanks......I have one more question. Are Blue Hippo Tangs any safer as not to nibble on Corals?
<no surgeonfish is truly reef-safe. Most really do behave themselves (say 7 or 8 out of 10)... but a regular number (20-30% guesstimating) are nibblers on something desirable. And its not a matter of a species or genus that are rogue... but rather certain individuals. Luck of the draw that can be prevented if you/all of us would properly quarantine an animal before adding it to the main display. During the 4 month observation in QT, you can add small test pieces of invertebrate life to the tang rather than risk all with an impatient move to the main display. Bets regards, Anthony>

Hippo tangs
Bob, 
What are your thoughts on keeping blue (hippo) tangs in a reef tank?
what are their food and other basic requirements? schooling or solitary?
When I go to my local reef retailer to observe the hippos, they are some
times laying on the floor. The owner says they are perfectly healthy and
this is normal behavior. I did observe the fish, and they did not have
any external signs of stress or disease, is this behavior really normal
in hippos? thanks, Chris
<<Have seen hippo/palette/yellow-tail blue tangs (Paracanthurus hepatus) kept in reef tanks around the world, including some gorgeous ones at the Waikiki Aquarium in the "backyard" Mondo reef tank. I like them. They eat most anything, but really appreciate greens everyday (and not terrestrial, btw). Seem happy enough solo or in a group (often in association with their own kind in the wild). And, yes, this species does "lay down" a lot; in captivity and the wild. Not a worry. Just select for one that is "plump", esp. in the upper flank it/they should be concave in profile, not convex. Bob Fenner>>

Tangs
Hello Bob, 
I'd like your advice on the following. I currently have a yellow tang and
will be adding 3 medium sized hippo tangs. I'd also like to add either a
Sailfin or Desjardin. Do you foresee any problems with this? I have a 110
gallon. Thanks.
<<Well, if these are the only fish livestock... May I ask why three of the hippo (Paracanthurus hepatus) tangs? If you're set on this number they would be happier if one was decidedly larger (the other two an inch or more smaller)... 
With some luck/chance the Desjardin's (Zebrasoma desjardinii) will not initially be overly-bullied by the existing Yellow, nor become a bully as time goes by and it gets much larger. This Zebrasoma is a better choice than the congener "Sailfin"... in part, because of its lack of familiarity (different geographic range) with the Yellow. Bob Fenner>>

Stock list (continued) and soft corals
Hi - I have a few follow-on questions related to the next step in my
aquarium adventure. (I feel like I'm perhaps asking too many questions,
but you keep answering them!) I included our previous emails for
context - I now have a cleaner goby along with my clownfish, and both are
doing great. For my next step I am planning to mail-order a tank-raised
palette tang
<Really? Paracanthurus hepatus? This is news to me...>
and royal Gramma...planning to dip/bath both, and then put
the tang straight in, but I was thinking of still quarantining the Gramma
for a couple weeks. Or is it better to add them both at the same time?
<if the system is stable... all at once>
I will follow (much later) with a flame angel, and perhaps a Halichoeres
(of some type) wrasse. Do the stock list modifications still sound ok?
<So far...>
An a different note, I followed your advice and added a small cutting from
a green star polyp colony - seems to be doing well so far. I would like
to try a couple other soft corals
<This organism is not a Soft Coral>
(xenia and Sarcophyton maybe)...however, I do not currently have any live rock in the main tank - I simply glued the star polyp cutting to the top of a large terrestrial rock in the tank (LFS called it bowl rock) - is it OK to do this with the other soft corals listed? I also currently only have two normal fluorescent bulbs for lighting - are the corals mentioned ok with that?
<Maybe not the Sarcophyton, and better to wait, have the live rock in, cycled first>
I might eventually upgrade the lighting and add more live rock, but was
wanting to take it slow for now...
<Go slow... in orderly fashion... buy, place the LR first>
Some more setup info in case it is helpful: I'm now adding c-balance to
maintain calcium and alkalinity, and I have a wavemaker with quite a bit
of current in the tank (55 gallon...3 maxi-jet 1200s).
Thanks again - Keith
<Okay. Bob Fenner>

Fish (livestock selection, marine)
Bob
I have another question for you in regard to my tank. I have a 135 reef tank with around 200 lbs of live rock and quite a few soft and hard corals. The fish I have are Cherub angel, fire fish, six line wrasse, 3 lyretail Anthias (I don't know if one is going to make it. She has not been acting all that great lately) 2 perculas clowns, Banggai cardinal and purple tang. I was thinking about adding a hippo tang. I do not want to over crowd my tank. Do you think the addition of the Hippo would be too much?
<The added fish, Paracanthurus, should be fine. A good choice here for temperament, color...>
Are there any other fish you would recommend that might compliment what I all ready have? Once again thank you so much for your help and time.
<Many choices... please read through, check the ratings, images of what we have posted on WetWebMedia.com)
Bob Fenner>
Jason

Re: fish
Bob
A quick follow up. If staying with smaller size fish how many more do
you think I could put in this tank?
<No more>
I have been reading through your web site and it said not to quarantine the
Hippo tang do you still subscribe to this philosophy?
<For most cases yes>
Would Two hippo get along better than one?
<One>
That is all and I will leave you alone. Thank You so much, Jason
<Be chatting. Bob Fenner>

Restocking tank
Mr. Fenner, We were wondering if a Hippo will get along with a Coral
Beauty (much smaller than the Hippo) and then, will they get along with
Perculas and a yellow eyed tang? If so in which order should these fish be
added and how long in between each addition should we wait before adding the next? The only one we have right now is the Hippo and we have had him for about 15 months and he is pretty big!!!
<In a good sized system, say 75 gallons or more, with adequate cover (live rock, etc.) these should all get along... I would place them in the order you present, with a week or more between the Dwarf Angel and then the Clowns and other Tang can be placed at the same time or no... The Hippo (Paracanthurus hepatus) may chase the newcomers, especially the Kole, for a while... but is very unlikely to damage them given the above stipulations. Bob Fenner>

Hippos Everywhere
Hi Bob-
<Anthony Calfo in your service>
Trying to find some info. on keeping multiple Hippo tangs in the same tank and have not had much luck, so I turn to the experts.
<make sure that you quarantine all hippos for a strict month in a hospital tank and then keep an extremely stable temperature in the display (two heaters) once moved... these lovely fish get white-spot disease very easily from stress>
1) Is it even possible to keep multiple hippos together?
<easily and commonly>
2) Any special warnings that could be observed (i.e. only keep in odd numbers; I have heard this for other tangs).
<nope...rubbish. All pot luck, but larger shoals are safer of like sized animals. Three is a minimum and a bit scary. I'd opt for at least four assuming you have a six foot tank or bigger to plan responsibly for their adult size>
3) IF possible: I am planning a 150 gallon reef tank with a bi-color pseudo and 6-line wrasse. The only other fish would be a small grouping of hippos. How many adults could this tank comfortably support?
<If you want to leave room for them as adults, let the hippos be the only large fish and the other tankmates should be small as you have planned with the pseudo and wrasse. >
Thanks T.J. Morgan
<best regards, Anthony>