FAQs About Goldfish Systems:
Filtration
Related Articles: Goldfish Systems,
Goldfish
101: Goldfish May Be Popular, And They May Be Cheap, But That
Doesn't Make Them Easy Aquarium Fish by Neale
Monks, Goldfish
Disease, Goldfish Nutrition,
Goldfish, Goldfish Varieties, Goldfish Mal-Nutrition,
Related FAQs: Goldfish Systems 1, Goldfish Systems 2, Goldfish Systems 3, Goldfish Systems 4, Goldfish Systems 5, Goldfish Systems 6, Goldfish Systems 7, Goldfish Systems 8, Goldfish Systems 9, & FAQs on Goldfish
System: Tanks (Size, Shape...),
Lighting/Tops, Decor, Gravel, Plantings, Heating/Temperature, Aeration/Circulation, Water Quality (Algae, Smell, Cloudiness...
Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, Nitrogen Cycling), Maintenance, Trouble/Fixing, & Goldfish 1, Goldfish Behavior, Goldfish Compatibility, Goldfish Feeding, Goldfish Disease, Goldfish
Breeding/Reproduction,
|
Need complete biological
filtration... along with mechanical/physical... and you to do
regular maintenance, change-outs of the media to assure it
doesn't accumulate solids, dissolve to contribute to dissolved
organic materials.
Medium sized tanks can get by with hang on power filters, larger
ones need canisters...
Even with the biggest, best filtration... still need to do regular
partial water change-outs. |
Do I need another filter for my goldfish setup?
3/20/15
My tank is 30" L x 12" W x 18" H
The store I got the tank from said it was 29 gallons.
It has a sponge filter and air pump rated for 80 gallons. It has a 100 watt
submersible heater.
I currently have 2 fantail goldfish and 7 ghost shrimp in the tank.
The store said the fish would eventually grow to be 6 inches to 8 inches.
<In years time>
The goldfish are currently 2 inches long each.
As far as gallons and filtration go, is my current setup ok for the fish and
shrimp to live their lives out in? I have a 75 gallon power filter.
Should I use this power filter in addition to my sponge filter? Should I use any
other filters other than my single sponge filter? Thank you.
<Redundancy in filtration is a good idea. I would have both.
Bob Fenner>
re: Do I need another filter for my goldfish setup?
Thank you Bob! :)
<Welcome Cam>
goldfish filter questions
3/5/15
Hi Crew,
It's been awhile since I had to write. My reef tanks are doing well
thanks to your help. Awhile back, my cousin's son won a gold fish at a
county fair. I have been reading your gold fish pages, and have a
question. They set it up in a 5 gallon tank, before I gave them a used
15 gallon I had sitting around. There really is no room to go any bigger
with the tank. My
hope is to move it to my parents pond this summer, then get the kid some
fish more appropriate for that tank. In the meantime, the filter that
came with the 5 gallon is not getting it done. I have a spare Aquaclear
70 sitting in a box, that isn't too much flow, is it?
Thanks for all the help past, present, and future,
-Dave
<If this is the Aquaclear 70 hang-on-the-back filter, it's rated at a
turnover of 300 gallons/hour, which is about right for community tanks
around 40-50 gallons in size. As a general rule, community fish tanks
are maintained best with filters providing a turnover rate of around 6-8
times the volume of the tank in turnover per hour. So 50 gallons x 6
times would
be 300 gallons/hour. Make sense? Now, common or standard Goldfish (such
as Comets) are a bit messier than community fish, so you might choose to
increase that turnover rate a bit, 8 or even 10 times per hour, so for a
50 gallon tank, you'd go with a 400 gallons/hour filter. Of course fancy
Goldfish (such as Moors) are poor swimmers, so you'd not increase the
flow
rate for them. So depending on whether your Goldfish is a fancy variety
or a standard Goldfish, you'd equip a 15-gallon tank with a filter rated
at either 6 x 15 = 90 gallons/hour or 8 x 15 = 120 gallons/hour. Now,
with all that said, the flow rate from the Aquaclear 70 can be adjusted,
I believe, so you may well be able to reduce the flow rate sufficiently
that it doesn't buffet your Goldfish around the tank. You'd need to
experiment. It should be pretty obvious if the Goldfish is having
trouble swimming comfortably. If it isn't, then getting a simple in-tank
canister filter might be the easiest solution. I like the Eheim Aquaball
series for their affordable price and very long term reliability, but
even the cheaper models should last a few years without problems. Does
this help? Neale.>
Re: goldfish filter questions 3/5/15
Neale,
Thank you. That does help. I will find a different filter if that will
be too big. I just want to do the best thing possible for this fish. If
i had a choice, they would outlaw those carnival games that involve live
animals.
<Amen to that Dave. Such bans have been mooted a few times in the UK,
but so far as I know, they're not laws yet. The argument is that they're
a "popular and traditional" part of the fun fair experience. Well, so
was bear-bating and cock-fighting at one time, so I'm sure in time the
Goldfish racket will be phased out too. As you appreciate, as "gifts"
go, Goldfish come along with a whole heap of expense and responsibility
if they're going to be looked after properly. In any event, it's great
you're helping out your family to look after their pet in the right
way.>
Thanks again,
Dave
<Cheers, Neale.>
Goldfish Filters 6/18/2013
Hi. I have questions regarding two types of filters in two different
types of goldfish system.
The first system I have questions on is a basic indoor tank of 30
gallons.
It contains 1 redcap Oranda and a 350 gph bio wheel power filter. Do I
need to clean the bio wheels? If so, how often? Do I need to replace the
bio wheels? If so, how often do I replace them?
<Mmm, I'd leave them on permanently, never replace; or if you find
yourself doing so, leaving the other media in place for weeks
thereafter>
How often should I clean the carbon filters in this system?
<As often as you'd like... every week, few weeks. The carbon, though
high quality from Marineland, gets exhausted within hours>
When should I replace the carbon filters? How often should I clean the
whole filter system?
<I'd check on all weekly; when you do your water changes... IF you have
multiple sets of the mechanical filter media, including the wheel... you
can switch these out, purposely bleach, rinse, air dry between changes>
The second system I have is a plastic, above ground, outdoor pond
system.
It is a 50 gallon system. It is rated for outdoor use and is fish safe.
It has a 325 gph, submersible flat box filter, a fountain, a pump, and
two airstones. The filter itself consists internally of a course
<coarse, homonym> sponge, a fine sponge, and some smooth, pea-sized
gravel. I change the water and clean out the tank once a week.
<Good>
How often do I need to rinse the sponges?
<About this often during the warm months (when water stays above about
55 F.>
Do I rinse them both at the same time?
<Yes; can be done>
Or do I rinse them one at a time?
<Not so much a worry here w/ ruining your biofilter... can be done on
the same day>
How often, if at all, should I clean the whole filter (the pump
included)?
<I wouldn't do this ever>
Do I need to add a carbon filter pad?
<Mmm, no; you could though; would benefit by having cleaner, clearer
water... best to put said carbon in a purposed Dacron media bag... same
sources as the carbon itself>
If so, how often do I rinse it?
<Only when first installing>
How often do I need to replace the carbon filter pad in the pond system?
<Mmm, every month or so during the warm season>
Thank you for your time and patience.
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Goldfish Question, filtration
per stkg., vol. 1/30/12
Hello.
I have a 29 gallon tank. It has 2 filters. One filters at 20 gallons,
the other at 30 gallons. Combined that is roughly 50 gallons of
filtration.
There is currently 1 Oranda goldfish in this tank.
My question is, if I were to increase filtration to 70 gallons, could I
another goldfish with the Oranda that is already in the tank?
<Greetings. Your key misunderstanding here is that the "filter
for a 20 gallon tank" statement on a filter means anything. It
means zilch. Or at least, it's wildly misleading. When a
manufacturer sells a filter as "suitable for a 20 gallon
tank" what they mean is "suitable for a 20 gallon tank in the
best possible situation, i.e., lightly stocked with small, Neon-sized
fish that don't make much/any mess." It's much the same as
"servings per box" on cereal packets, or "battery life
on 3 hours" on a laptop -- at best, a guideline, at worst, total
fiction so far as real-world usage goes. A better (if still imperfect)
approach is to use gallons/hour turnover rates. All (non-air-powered)
filters will have the gallons/hour turnover rate stated on the pump
somewhere. If you have a 30 gallon tank, then for small fish a turnover
rate 4 times that will be adequate, i.e., 4 x 30 = 120 gallons/hour.
Bigger fish that make more mess would need up to 6 times, and Goldfish,
being very big and very messy, would need at least 6 and ideally 8
times turnover rates, i.e., for a 30 gallon tank, 180-240 gallons/hour.
With that in mind, go back and look at your filters, and act
accordingly. Of course, this is a guideline as well, albeit a more
flexible one that scales up or down depending on the types of fish
being kept. The acid test is whether your aquarium is clean. Provided
the water is clear, and detritus like faeces are being removed from the
water, and above all else, ammonia and nitrite levels are always at
zero, then your filter is doing its job. If you find the water gets
murky or smelly, then more filtration and more water changes will be
needed, doubly so if you plan on adding more fish. In theory, a 30
gallon tank should house 2-3 fancy Goldfish without problems, but do be
aware that in such small tanks and in such small groups, Goldfish can
sometimes be aggressive, especially if you have a male harassing a
female all the time. Cheers, Neale.>
Filtration
1/5/12
Hello, I have two twenty gallon tanks, each
with a hang on back whisper filter sized for 30-40 gallon
tanks, I also have an old , old, BioWheel filter sized
for 125 gph, don't know the tank size for this, they
don't make them anymore, now they make 100, for 20 gallon tanks,
and 150 for 30 gallon tanks, I wanted to know what your opinion on
getting the smaller New BioWheel, made for 20 gallon tanks, or go with
the one larger for 30 gallon tanks,
<I'd go w/ the larger for messy fishes like goldfish; or two of
the smaller on each tank>
I attached a photo of each I was wanting to get a new one as this old
one on each tank is about 10 years or so old, and it is getting
noisy,
<Mmm, sometimes these can be (easily) repaired. Do take it to your
local fish store for them to check out>
the wheel is very old looking .
<And these can be either bleach-washed (see WWM re cleaning,
decor...) or replaced by themselves, w/o tossing the whole unit>
Thanks
Cathy Hart
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Filtration
In regard to the last message sent about filtration and getting new
BioWheel filter, I have larger sized Goldfish in these 20
gallon tanks
Thanks again
Cathy Hart
<Yes; had "read ahead". Cheers, BobF>
Re: Filtration
Ok Thanks for advice, So it is ok to add on each twenty gallon
tank, the larger BioWheel rated for 30 gallon tanks, as I already
have the hang on back whisper filters rated for 30- 40?? I don't
want to over filtrate!!
<Ahh, not to worry. Practically speaking this is not possible.
Better to have more than less by far>
Thanks again
Cathy Hart
<Cheers, B>
Interactive Goldfish Aquarium at a
Public School in Ohio. Filtr.
6/7/11
HI! We corresponded about this 55- gallon, interactive aquarium in a
Public School 2-3 years ago because I was unsure about how to feed the
fish when I was not there. So I got the live plants (as you suggested),
got them growing and now, the fishes: Three fancy goldfish (Orandas) +
White Mountain Tetra (9) and asstd. guppies... and an undersize 8
year-old Pleco are doing well on an every-other-day feeding
schedule.
The goldfish have grown (and gotten cuter and more interactive). But
they are definitely gulping for air at the top of the water on the days
they get fed, and the Red Oranda (Harry) has fungus issues.
My question is this: I have an oversize hanging box filter on this tank
plus a bubbler (no undergravel filter). I do a 20% water change every
week on Friday. I think I need more filtration since the big fish have
gotten bigger. What should I get to really DO IT, besides a bigger
water change?
<Hello Christine. If you want something you can set up and largely
ignore for months at a time beyond water changes, perhaps the best
system is the reverse-flow undergravel filter that uses an external
canister filter that sucks in water, cleans it, then pushes it into the
gravel bed where the water rises up through the gravel. This in turn
pushes silt and debris into the water column so the external canister
can remove it, and so on, ad infinitum. The benefit of this system is
that it's more or less self-cleaning, provided you get in the habit
of rinsing the canister filter every 4-8 weeks. Because the
"good" bacteria are in the gravel, you can be fairly
aggressive about cleaning the canister. Eheim make all the bits you
need for this, and while pricey, their hardware lasts years, by which I
mean 20 year lifespans or more are not uncommon. If you want something
simpler, then you can buy large internal canister filters (again, the
Eheim ones are perhaps best) some of which are rated for larger tanks
than yours.
They're very easy to maintain, simply unplug and rinse under a
luke-warm tap, and can work extremely well. They do sit inside the tank
of course, so they're less easily hidden. If all else fails, a
big-ass canister filter like an Eheim 2215 or 2217 (or some equivalent
model from any other good manufacturer) would make an excellent
supplement to the hang-on-the-back filter you have. Provided you
cleaned each one with a 6 week gap in between them, if you happened to
wash away the bacteria from one, bacteria from the one you didn't
clean would pick up the slack and eventually all would return to
normal. So having two filters is an excellent way to do things.
Some brands and models are designed to be much easier to open and
maintain than old-school canisters like the 2215 and 2217 units
mentioned, though the older designs are very reliable and excellent
value. Hope this helps, Neale.>
Oranda care and filter
requirements 2/1/11
Good afternoon, My name is Charlie and I am fairly new to fish keeping
so please be gentle :-)
<Ahh, a remembrance from "desiderata"... "In dealing
w/ others, be gentle and kind". Thank you for this
reminder>
I currently have a fish-less cycled 50gal set up with a Fluval 4plus
filter and airstone for my adorable Oranda goldfish - his name is
dumpling (I've decided he 'looks' more he than she) he is
around 3 inches and is very chunky.
<We of the chunky set prefer the term/adverb
"prosperous">
My question is what would be a better filtration set up for him - I
don't think that the Fluval is enough for a messy goldfish (I am
considering getting him a tankmate probably a black moor or another
Oranda if you think the tank is big enough for 2 - I want the fish to
be properly cared for) could you recommend a better filtration system
for my set up and maybe could you pass on any tips to keep dumpling
happy.
Thanks in advance
Charlie x
<I "run" my goldfish systems w/ canister filters as well
(Eheims), but do agree w/ you re the addition of an/other filter here.
I'd situate a hang-on power filter of good capacity on the back...
clean this out on alternating times with the Fluval. Oh, do read here
as well:
http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/GldfshFiltF.htm
Bob Fenner>
Re: Disinfecting a Used Acrylic Tank
1/12/11
Hi Bob, thanks so much for your time and quick response! I'd like
to follow-up in the bio-ball/filtration concern you raised. I read your
link and understand that the bioball concern is that it will produce
high nitrate levels in the areas where there is not good water flow and
gunk accumulates,
<Yes...>
There are pre-filter rolls that sit above the bioballs in the
Aquasystem set-up--would these remedy that issue?
<Actually, these DLS ("double layer spirals") of
batting/polyester material make all worse. I'll try to make up for
my lack of completeness this AM and state that I am VERY familiar w/
the TruVu/Aquaplex "system" you have...
and would abandon it en toto. I.e., I'd leave all the compartments
empty...
and likely drill through the back, situate a sump and refugium of
whatever design below, aside or even higher than the tank. Please see
here re:
http://wetwebmedia.com/marsetupindex2.htm
the second tray down, OR go w/ canister filtration (which is what I do
w/ my fancy goldfish systems)>
Also, I plan to float Anacharis and other plants in the tank per your
goldfish diet recommendations, as I have had floaty issues in the
past.
Will this mitigate the nitrate problem of the bioballs?
<Not at all, no>
But here's another concern: With fancy goldfish, who are so
sensitive to anaerobic bacteria, perhaps this dead spots would also be
problematic?
<Yes>
I do have 2 Eheim 2217 filters on my current 50 G setup, but this will
not be sufficient for 10x tank volume turnover--however, I could buy a
new canister, I suppose. What would you recommend?
<Eheim canister/s>
This Aquasystem has the overflow/sump built into the back of the
tank.
If I use the Eheims or some other non-bioball solution, should I just
bypass that and keep it dry?
<Mmm, no... I'd pull the water from there... use the extra
volume>
I do like the idea of hiding the heater and UV sterilizer back
there...
To be honest, I bought the tank for its volume, not for the
Aquasystem.
<Ah good>
Now that I have it, though, the bioball idea seems attractive as the
system in hidden, it seems to be low maintenance, and it apparently
oxygenates really well--but I am not bent on using it if it is not the
best option. How would you set up this tank for goldies?
<Not really functional w/ the media>
There will be 6-10 medium to large fancy GF in this 125 G at the end of
the day. Thank you again for your advice and guidance, always
appreciated.
Catherine
<Very glad that we are sharing. BobF>
Hello again! GF, sys., filtr.
11/11/10
Hello Crew,
I hope you're having weather as nice there as it is here. 68-70
degrees of gorgeous.
<Uh, no, I'm in England, where it's a brisk 10 degrees C,
overcast, and intermittently rainy. Not much fun, but good the
garden!>
I wrote a few months back to ask for help concerning my goldfish. They
are alive and well thanks to the abundance of information on the site
and help from Neale.
<Glad we helped.>
I had mentioned at the time that I would write back to update and also
to ask for a tiny bit of guidance once I am ready upgrade. Alas the
time has come. Here's some background- 3 goldies ( 2 Orandas, and
one Ryukin) 4-6 inches 20 g tank 2 filters. (one Fluval C2, and one
Aqueon (for 10-20 g)) Temp. 74 degrees F now that winter is coming I
have a heater ready for when the temp fluctuates Decor: Planted tank
with a couple of large rocks (no air stones since there are two
filters) and large/medium sized gravel of a med. beige
<All sounds fine. There's nothing wrong with letting the
temperature drop a bit in winter, and a couple of months at 18 C/64 F
will be quite healthful for most fancy Goldfish. The thing with fancy
Goldfish is that really cold conditions don't suit them for a
variety of reasons, and at very low temperatures Goldfish shouldn't
be fed, so keeping them at or slightly above a cool room temperature is
the easiest way to keep them.>
Water is changed twice a week 25% at a time with treated water
(AquaPlus) gravel lightly vacuumed and filters gently squeezed and
rinse to get big chunks off Parameters- Ammonia 0 Nitrate- 0.2-0.5
Nitrite- 0 PH- 8.0
<Are you sure you have nitrAte and nitrIte the right way around
here? Test kits for nitrate usually go up to 50 mg/l, 40-50 mg/l being
typical of municipal water. Nitrate levels below 5 mg/l are basically
negligible.
Anyway, nitrate levels up to 50 mg/l shouldn't do Goldfish any
harm, though you should aim to keep nitrate below 20 mg/l if possible.
Nitrite -- with an "i" -- on the other hand is very toxic,
and needs to be at zero. If it's above zero, then that's one
reason you'll have sick fish.>
My Ryukin Pepper has a deformed bladder so he perpetually sits on his
butt and waddles instead of swim. He doesn't show any other
symptoms however.
<Not uncommon, sadly.>
He eats well and swims good he's just special. :) They are rapidly
outgrowing their tank as I expected and are now ready for a new tank. I
have looked and looked for a tank for about 2 months now and found
a
whole set up for a very good price! It is a 50 gallon rectangular
tank.
<Ideal. You should be able to keep 4-5 good sized Fancy Goldfish in
a tank this big.>
Now that I have the tank I am ready to make the transfer. I wanted to
know if it is Ok for me to put the fish in the new tank straight
away.
<Yes, so long as you move the filter -- and its mature media -- as
well.
Moving gravel has only a slight benefit, and moving water almost none.
It's the biological filter that has to be moved across.>
I plan to use all the gravel and decoration from the 20 gal. I also am
going to use the Fluval for the new tank and pour the water from the
old tank into the new. Does the tank still need to be cycled if I do it
this
way or will the bacteria be transferred?
<If the filter is moved, I'd honestly, put completely new water
in the 50 gallon tank, check water chemistry (i.e., pH) and temperature
are about the same as the 20 gallon tank, and if they are move the
filter across, then switch the filter back on. Then empty the 20 gallon
tank about half way down, fill up in 3-4 stages using water from the 50
gallon tank across half an hour, so the Goldfish can adjust to any
slight differences in chemistry
and temperature. Then move the Goldfish from the 20 to the 50.>
I am limited with space so I am trying to find the most efficient way
of going about this, but I don't want to do any harm to the fish
either. I've read some stuff lately on your FAQs pages but still am
not clear on the
course of action. I would appreciate the advice greatly. :)
Thank you for your time and effort on the site. It is one of a
kind!
Dawn
<You're welcome. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Hello again! 11/11/10
I've always wanted to visit England and have a nice beer outside in
the cold weather.
<Gosh no! Cold weather would cool down the beer, which the English
prefer at room temperature. Much better to find a nice country pub with
a log fire, and sit close to that supping your ale.>
Thank You Neale for a prompt response.
<Most welcome.>
I will take your advice. I will be using the same water I use to fill
their tank now. Usually I store the treated water in the same room for
about 3-4 days before I change their water.
<Okay. Might be easier to fill the 50 gallon tank today, but
don't move the fish or filter until, say, Sunday afternoon.>
The NitrAte is at 20ppm like you said and I typed it 0.2
<Ah yes, I see.>
(I test the water so much I have developed a habit of not looking at
the decimal but rather the area where the water is acceptable
WHOOPS)
<The devil's in the detail.>
I have two hang on the back filters, but do you think I should get an
under gravel or wet/dry?
<If you don't have plants, then there's A LOT to be said in
favour of undergravel filters. They are very durable and easy to
maintain, except that every year or two you probably will need to strip
the tank down to clean underneath the filter plate. I happen to prefer
external canister filters which occupy a sweet spot in terms of
performance versus maintenance, but I know in the US the good canister
filter brands like Eheim are imports and can be a bit expensive --
though Eheim does have legendary performance and longevity, units often
last 10-20 years. Hang-on-the-back filters can be very effective, but
their capacity in terms of how many fish or gallons they filter is
sometimes optimistic, and I don't like the brands that force you to
install "modules" that only one manufacturer makes. So if you
choose an HOB filter, do look for a brand that allows you to dump
whatever media you want into the compartments, ceramic noodles and
sponges being critical, and fine filter wool being useful for trapping
silt. Carbon and other chemical modules are worthless in this sort of
aquarium.>
I don't know a lot about filters so I'm nervous about venturing
outside of my comfort zone. The temperature here in Florida doesn't
change much during the spring and summer months, but in the winter
sometimes it can fluctuate between 5-10 degrees throughout the day. At
least in my house it does hehe. I know that temperatures that change
rapidly is not good for them and since Pepper is extra sensitive I want
to err with caution, so that's why I have a heater ready to go.
<In Florida, room temperatures by summer and winter should be fine
for fancy Goldfish. It's serious cold that causes them harm,
basically freezing conditions, and below 10 C/50 F you shouldn't be
feeding Goldfish because their digestive system won't work and the
resulting decay inside their gut promotes bacterial infections. Neither
of these problems is likely in Florida.>
I would love to go out and rescue some more fish, but I also want my
fish to grow to their full potential and have plenty of space.
<Yes; 50 gallons will do this nicely.>
They seem to be very fond of each other at the moment so I'll wait
and see how things are before I decide to add another member to the
family.
<Wise. Goldfish are gregarious and they do love company, but the
males are competitive. A good idea might be to wait until spring and
then avoid ones with spawning tubercles on their faces, as these are
boy. If you have all girls or one boy and, say, three girls, you should
be fine.>
All the fish I have so far I've rescued from work or the pet shop.
Just can't stand seeing mistreated animals and turn a blind eye. I
guess that's another reason why I didn't major in the Vet.
field. I would have to come up with a farm.
<I sympathise! My father was the same, bringing home the most
forlorn looking Goldfish because he was sorry for them and wanted them
to have at least die somewhere warm and comfy. Often the fish would
recover, one in particular he called Sharkey grew into a huge but
lovely Black Moor with just one eye.>
Thank You again Neale and everyone at WWM.
Dawn
<Your kind words are appreciated. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Hello again! 11/14/10
If someone could lend me advise while Neale is gone I would appreciate
it greatly. If not I'll keep reading until I find something. What
do you mean when you say another typical western thing?
<Common behavior observed>
Like I've explained in the email I've been looking for an
upgrade for two months and all the while I see people trying to
"rehome" their pets for a small price. In their posts they
write things like, "I can't afford the money or time. I
didn't know she would be this big." I feel no sympathy for
these people. While I admit I don't know them and am being
judgmental I still feel strongly about the responsibility, I think
it's a universal thing. Thank you for your response. I realize you
are volunteers and do this on your time. I think it's very kind
that you emailed me back to at least let me know that Neale won't
be around- but really I'm asking for advise
<advice>
from people who know more than me not just from Neale.
<Please phrase, rewrite your question/s and send it/them along
then>
Dawn
By the way, I'm from the east where they eat dogs. I have two that
are family members. Both my parents are mixed with Chinese, Vietnamese,
and Caucasian. My parents and me were not born here in the US. It is
our goal to keep the good of our culture and learn from others too. So
"typical" to me is debatable.
<I see... well, "easterners" are "typically"
inclined infinitely (vs. finitely), not so much "living in the
past"... which I deem "a good thing".
BobF>
Hello Crew... misc., reading 11/15/10
Hello Bob,
Thank you for your response. Pardon the grammar mistakes, I get to
writing and my thoughts stay far ahead while my fingers lag behind.
<I see>
Here are the questions I sent in. I've been doing to more reading
while I waited for your response, but I think I was looking in the
wrong area. There's A LOT to learn!
<Ah yes>
I've always marveled at the fact that I would go more out of my way
to help
>an ailing animal than I would certain people as harsh as that might
sound.
><Another "typical" of westerners>
>Here's some basic details about the tank and my progress-
><Neale's out till Tues. Write back if this won't
keep
> I've decided to put three HOB on the 50 gal. I have four HOB
and it seems a
>waste to let them collect dust and go buy a canister. I haven't
had any problems
>with them so far. I've found snails hidden in the substrate of
the 50 (used)
>tank. I decided to scoop out all the rocks and rinsed the tank with
the garden
>hose and let it dry out today. I wont be reusing the rocks that
came with the
>tank since I don't know what else is hidden in them. The new
set up is
>approximately 9 years old. (this is what the previous owner tells
me) He kept
>Oscars in there (2) and they died after a some sickness that left
holes in their
>heads. After those two died the man decided to have a planted tank
w/ small
>tropical fish. He never got to the tropical fish, he just had a
plethora of
>plants in there before he had to relocate and take the take down.
The time
>period from the Oscars to his selling the take took 9 months. Do
you think
>there is any possibility of the sickness sticking around in/on the
tank?
<Not likely... HLLE is more nutritional deficiency caused than
otherwise>
Like I said I've rinsed everything out and left it to dry. If so
could I use vinegar
>and water (read this off one of BF's posts)?
<You could; though likely unnecessary>
Also I plan to follow your advice and fill the tank, treat the water,
let it sit for 2-3 days, then transfer
the filter and fish. I have a question about the stand. It is a stand
built to fit a
>55 gallon tank. It's solid wood that has not been finished with
paint or, for
>that matter, anything at all. I wanted to know if treating or
painting the stand
>would make it last longer?
<Yes, it would. See WWM re>
I've read somewhere on the site that wood warps
>through time and this may be a problem. The stand granted is about
as old as the
>tank, around 9 years old, but doesn't show any age. (No cracks
or mildew etc...)
>Of course if I decided to put a fresh coat of something on the tank
I will let
>it dry completely before having it near the fish tank. I'm just
concerned about
>the stand being structurally sound. I can send a picture if that
will help.
<Please do>
>There will be plants in the tank and I'm heading out after work
today to get a
>set of lights for the hood. Do you have any suggestions about brand
and function?
<All sorts... do you know how to use WWM? Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/WWMAdminSubWebIndex/question_page.htm
I'm leery about asking any pet shop "experts" since they
cost so much
>(I just want basic plants like elodea, moss ball, and hornwort.)
I'll be
>looking forward to your response and appreciate it.
Thank You again and have a Happy rest of the day.
Dawn
<Welcome. B>
Re: Hello Crew 11/15/10
Thank you Bob,
I'll do some more reading before I start. Yes I know how to use WWM
web search.
<Ah good>
Since I'm a beginner, I wanted confirmation on me progress. I have
bought new light for the hood already, let's see how they work out.
I'm very excited to start this project. I will write back to update
and send some pictures once I get a good amount of progress going!
<Real good>
There is a Wet Pet store in Pasadena, FL here where I live. I was
wondering if the store is a branch of yours. It would be neat if it is!
I would then have a place to where I would be in good hands.
<Ah no... our businesses ceased in the early 1990's>
Thank You again Bob for you time and the Crew for the great website.
Have a blessed day.
<And you and yours, BobF>
Goldfish, tiny unfiltered tank, the usual story...
5/28/2010
Hi,
<Hello,>
I have a comet goldfish that is about 2.5 inches long.
<Will get much bigger than that, if kept properly. Comets are really
pond fish, and even in an aquarium should top 6 inches/15 cm within a
couple of years, and potentially reach 8 inches/20 cm or more.>
I have him alone in a 10 gallon tank with no filter
<Not good enough; this is precisely why he's sick.>
but I do change 50% of his water 1-3 times a week and test it for
nitrates and ammonia regularly.
<And? What are the results from these tests? Remember, anything
above 0 nitrite and 0 ammonia will stress him. Nitrate is largely
unimportant.>
He is about 1.5 years old and started having problems when we upgraded
to a bigger tank for him and his buddies about 2 months ago.
<The problems weren't caused by the bigger tank, that's for
certain.>
It all started with Pop Eye, I learned I was over feeding
<Overfeeding doesn't cause the damage, that's a myth.
Overfeeding swamps the filter with nitrogen, and water quality
plummets. In a reasonably large, adequately filtered aquarium
overfeeding is unlikely to cause problems because the filter should be
able to handle a little extra food.
But if someone keeps a fish in a tank that's too small and
doesn't have a filter, then even with normal rations there'll
be ammonia in the water, and if you overfeed, that ammonia level
quickly reaches dangerous levels.>
and secluded him to this 10 gallon tank around his 2nd week of having
it. I treated with Maracyn 2 and he seemed to get better,
<Temporary, at best. Environmental problems aren't cured with
drugs any more than fat people lose weight by switching to Diet
Coke.>
he went back in the community tank. He got Pop Eye again so I
sequestered him again and treated him then he seemed better so back in
the tank he went.
<...>
Then a week later I noticed his fins were all clamped together.
<Spotting the pattern yet...?>
Treated him for a week with Maracyn, seemed better, all but the top fin
were totally open, back in the tank he goes. Two weeks later I see this
weird round white circle on his side and he looks like he is getting
white
slimy stuff on his side.
<...>
Now I decided to just keep him in the 10 gallon tank for a few months
until he is totally healthy so I can stop setting up and taking apart a
tank. I treat him with Maracyn, he gets better and his top fin opens up
beautifully at the exact same time as his back fin develops tail
rot.
<It's environmental; fish his living conditions, then treat the
symptoms, and he'll stay healthy.>
At this point I really don't want to spend any more money
<!!!>
so I let it go for 2 days then I just cave and start treating him with
Maracyn again. So now his tail is very short , about .75 inch and the
end has grown dark brown, I've been treating him for 3 days,
tonight he gets
his 4th dose.
<Dismal.>
I'm leaving to go out of town for a week in 4 days and I really
don't know what else I can do to get him healthy.
<Read what these fish need, and then keep them properly. You
can't keep Goldfish in small, unfiltered bowls and tanks. Never
could. Just because you see them in bowls on TV doesn't mean that
works, any more than Superman can fly just because he does in the
movies. Goldfish are animals and animals have requirements.>
I do use aquarium salt, 1tbs per 5 gal
<Hmm...>
and I do 5 gal water changes so I don't mess up the levels.
<The levels were messed up a long time ago! Try and understand what
you're doing, rather than flailing about. Remember the nitrogen
cycle? You presumably learned about in school, in biology class.
Certainly taught to everyone here in England. Anyway, nitrogenous
wastes come out of the fish, and have to be processed. If they're
not, the ammonia sits in the water, causing all sorts of harm. Think
about how you manage that ammonia -- FILTRATION!>
I also feed him a little once a day but will tell the person taking
care of him to only feed him every other day to keep waste down. Aside
from doing a water change right before I leave is there anything else I
can do? Is the tips of his tail getting darker a good or bad thing?
<Likely ammonia burns, and definitely not good.>
Is there hope or am I fighting a loosing battle?
<If it is a losing battle, it is so because you chose not to keep
this fish properly. Remember how Hitler lost the Second World War
because he decided to invade Russia? Lack of understanding and planning
cost him dearly.
That's where we are here. Any aquarium book would have told you
Goldfish need large tanks and they need filters.>
Thanks,
Carmen
<Do read:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/goldfish101art.htm
Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Goldfish, tiny unfiltered tank, the usual story...
5/28/2010
Hi again,
<Hello,>
When I test his water the levels all come back at 0.
<What levels? The pH should be between 7 and 8, not zero.>
The main fish tank (20 gal with 5 other goldfish)
<Insanely overstocked.>
has filter and the water tests fine, I have taken it to pet shops and
tested it myself.
<Might well be fine while they're small, but honestly, I
can't believe it's "fine" if these are big fish. Been
at this game for far too many years...>
I'm just hesitant to pick up a filter for the 10 gallon tank he is
in
because it should be temporary.
<A bad plan.>
Ideally he will go back into the main tank. I was told that I could
avoid getting a filter as long as I do partial water changes every
couple of days.
<Well, perhaps, for a while. But clearly he's ill, so this
obviously isn't working, is it? What more can I say...>
I have actually taken samples of his water into pet shops and been told
that the ammonia and nitrite are at 0. At this point is it better to
put him in the main tank with the filter or keep him separate and do
the regular partial water changes?
<It's the lesser of two evils, yes.>
Also is 10 gallons really to small of a hospital tank for a 2.5 inch
goldfish?
<Yes. Because people do this is precisely why most Goldfish die
within a year of purchase. I don't have stock in companies that
make aquaria! I'm telling you the truth, as opposed to what you
want to hear.>
The idea is to eventually move them all to a 125 gallon tank by the end
of the year.
<Now that's more like it! But even a 55 gallon tank would be
fine for 4-5 fancy goldfish.>
Just a side note, these are my boyfriends fish and he had no idea what
they needed or how big they would get when he got them a year ago.
<Hence the need to read a book before doing anything else.>
It wasn't till he moved in and I talked him into upgrading the tank
because they looked crowded and the subsequent health problems occurred
that I read up on it and realized what he had gotten us into!
<Indeed.>
Thanks,
Carmen
<My pleasure. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Problems with Goldfish (RMF, thoughts on
super-saturation of gases vs. pop-eye)<<>>
2/28/10
Hello again, thanks for the help,
<You're welcome.>
I wanted to ask another question,
<Go ahead.>
I am changing from whisper 20 to 40 on one 20 gallon tank with one 8
inch fish in it and putting a whisper 60 in another 20 gallon tank I
have with 3 - 4-5 inch goldfish in it, will this be too much
filtration?
<Look on to filter or its packaging, and determine its turnover. For
Goldfish, you need at least 6 times the volume of the tank in turnover
per hour, and for Standard (as opposed to Fancy) Goldfish, 8 times the
volume of the tank is desirable. It cannot be stated too strongly how
messy Goldfish are, partly because of their size, partly because
they're plant eaters (so like cows and horses, defecate a lot), and
partly because they stir up the substrate (making the water cloudier
than otherwise). I wouldn't keep Goldfish in a 20 gallon tank, and
invariably Goldfish kept in
tanks this size end up in poor health and the aquarium looks grotty and
murky. So if you're in the process of shopping still, save your
money, and get a 30 gallon tank. For a 30 gallon tank, the minimum
sensible aquarium
for 2-3 adult Goldfish, filters rated at between 6 x 30 = 180 gallons
per hour for Fancy Goldfish (the ones with two tail fins) will be okay,
while Standards (with one tail fin) would do better with a filter rated
at 8 x 30 = 240 gallons per hour.>
I am keeping the old filter pads in there for awhile, but can too much
flow on the filters cause this supersaturation?
<Not really, no.><<Agreed>>
I have BioWheels in each with aerators too. I read somewhere where
supersaturation can cause cloudy or Popeye, I cant find out enough on
supersaturation ,
<No. If you have a lot of fine bubbles in the water, it is possible
that the water becomes more than normally saturated with gases, and
potentially these gases can come out of solution inside the body of the
fish. The tiny
bubbles accumulate inside various places causing damage, including
inside the eye, hence the potential link with Pop-eye. Having said
this, such problems are exceedingly rare, and only likely to happen in
aquarium with
extremely high turnover rates and vast amounts of splashing that would
allow super-saturation of the water. As such, it's normally a
problem in marine aquaria, or was in the past at least, because
filtration methods that used to be popular include much mixing of air
and water, e.g., trickle filters and wet/dry filters. It's far less
of an issue now because of the shift towards live rock filtration.
Immeasurably more Goldfish are killed by tanks that are too small for
them (like your 20 gallon tank) than super-saturation, so I
wouldn't allow yourself to be distracted by this issue.>
understand that it is the nitrogen coming from bottom of tank and
bursting at top to dissipate?? But can find out how to prevent it? Can
you explain first if it is okay to make these filter size changes and a
bit about what causes supersaturation? Thank you very much
<Filter turnover rates give you an approximate (some would argue
*very* approximate) handle on how well a filtration system will remove
ammonia and solid waste from the water. Turnover rates also indicate
how quickly oxygen levels will be "recharged" as water from
the bottom of the tank is pumped to the top. Hence, higher rates are
usually better. All tanks are different, and you can have low turnover
rates but excellent water quality if other factors are at work, such as
rapid plant growth, which both adds oxygen and removes ammonia. This is
important when fish that don't like strong water currents, like
Gouramis, are being kept. But Goldfish eat plants, and produce vast
amounts of solid waste, so without a good filter, conditions get bad
very quickly. They are air-breathers *in extremis* so will often get by
with low turnover rates if the water quality isn't too bad, but
such tanks look murky and the Goldfish tend to just "hang
about" since they're minimising oxygen consumption. Eventually
even that doesn't help, and they sicken and die. It's important
to understand how big Goldfish get, between 20-30 cm/8-12 inches,
depending on the variety.
That's a BIG fish by aquarium standards, and many would argue,
they're pond fish not aquarium fish. Fancy Goldfish are deformed,
so can't swim well, so you do need to balance turnover against
current, for example by using a spray bar to spread out the current.
But other varieties, like Comets and Shubunkins, are active swimmers
and enjoy a good water current. Cheers, Neale.> <<I don't
think hang on outside power filters can produce the circumstances
(pressure, fine air entraining...) that generate gas super-saturation
issues, like "Popeye". Could be tested for. RMF>>
Re: Problems with Goldfish (RMF, thoughts on
super-saturation of gases vs. pop-eye) 2/28/10
Thank you again, MY water quality is really good with crystal clear
water, However in explaining the turnover for filters I need for
goldfish, NON fancy type, you mentioned 8 times the turnover but then I
think you said that supersaturation occurs when you said only likely to
happen in aquarium with extremely high turnover rates and vast amounts
of splashing that would allow super-saturation of the water.
<Actually, no... this action is much more likely to
"de-gas" the water.
Please read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIndex/PdBblDisease.htm
and the linked Related FAQs file above>
I leave a space about 1 1/2 inches at top so it can make a splashing
noise and allow more movement on top of water, should I fill it to top
instead, If water is good and fish eat, why is it so bad to have them
in 20 gallon tank?
<Dilution of wastes, provision of surface area for biological
filtration and gaseous exchange, room to move... Please read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/gldfshsystems.htm
and the file above "size"...>
I ask this as when I moved them to the twenty years ago, I had so many
problems and about lost them all? Thanks again for you time, you've
been very kind in answering my questions! I do have well water with
softener and they have lived well in it for years, Could you explain
why this is so bad, you mentioned it in another email,
<This too is posted. Please search, read on WWM before writing. Bob
Fenner>
Re: RMF Re: Problems with Goldfish (RMF, thoughts on
super-saturation of gases vs. pop-eye)
Oh I missed something in last message, what is RMF??
<Sorry for the confusion Cathy. This is the acronym for my name,
Robert Milton Fenner, aka BobF, who generally "puts all away"
here on WWM and conspires w/ my fellow Crew Members>
Re: Problems with Goldfish (RMF, thoughts on super-saturation
of gases vs. pop-eye) 2/28/10
Thank you again, MY water quality is really good with crystal clear
water,
<If you say so. But seriously, long-term success with Goldfish in 20
gallon tanks is not likely, certainly not once they are more than, say,
10 cm/4 inches long. They are pond fish after all, so a small aquarium
really isn't what they need.>
However in explaining the turnover for filters I need for goldfish, NON
fancy type, you mentioned 8 times the turnover but then I think you
said that supersaturation occurs when you said only likely to happen in
aquarium with extremely high turnover rates and vast amounts of
splashing that would allow super-saturation of the water.
<No. As I said, it's not the turnover that's the issue,
it's the mixing of air and water, and specifically, where the water
is cooler when it mixes with the air than when it warms up inside the
main part of the aquarium. That's something that can -- very rarely
-- happen in tanks with external wet/dry filters and the like, but
isn't going to happen in the average aquarium. Compare the water
movement in a river or the sea, and now think about your aquarium. If
the fish are fine in the wild, what makes you think weak (by
comparison) currents in an aquarium are going to cause
problems?>
I leave a space about 1 1/2 inches at top so it can make a splashing
noise and allow more movement on top of water, should I fill it to top
instead,
<Splashing at the top of the aquarium actually does very little in
terms of oxygenating water. That's a myth. There's very little
you can do to increase the rate at which oxygen is absorbed by the
water, but what high turnover does is draw oxygenated water down to the
bottom of the tank more rapidly. So it's like comparing a low
heartbeat rate with a high heartbeat rate: the higher the turnover (the
heartbeat) the more oxygen is carried around overall.>
If water is good and fish eat, why is it so bad to have them in 20
gallon tank?
<Partly, it's to do with dilution. All fish produce a certain
amount of waste regardless of the size of the tank. The bigger the
tank, the more this is diluted, and the less likely you are to have
water quality problems. It's also about pH stability, because fish
wastes lower pH between water changes, and again, the bigger the tank,
the slower this process will be, so the smaller the pH changes when you
do your water changes. Then there's socialising issues, about fish
needing a certain amount of space to swim and interact with (or avoid)
each other.>
I ask this as when I moved them to the twenty years ago, I had so many
problems and about lost them all?
<Fish won't die from being moved from a small tank to a big tank
*if* water chemistry remains the same *and* water quality remains good.
But if you take fish from a small tank where the water chemistry was X,
and then stick them in a bigger tank where the water chemistry is Y,
then the shock could kill them unless you carefully acclimated them
across, say, an hour, using the drip method. As for water quality, they
may well be okay in the small tank if water quality was good, but if
the big tank is not cycled, and water quality is rubbish, then the move
could kill them.>
Thanks again for you time, you've been very kind in answering my
questions!
<My pleasure.>
I do have well water with softener and they have lived well in it for
years, Could you explain why this is so bad, you mentioned it in
another email,
<In short, water softeners don't soften water. What they do is
remove the mineral salts that create lime scale in pipes and
appliances. Usually, they do this by replacing calcium and magnesium
salts with sodium chloride (table salt). The resulting water is
slightly saline, which may or not be a problem, but the key issue is
that the water now has no carbonate hardness.
Since carbonate hardness is what keeps pH steady, this so-called
softened water is pH unstable, and it's easy to have wild changes
in water chemistry that can kill your fish. On the whole it is
recommended you don't use water from a domestic water softener in
an aquarium. Hard, basic tap water -- even well water -- is fine for
aquarium fish, so long as you choose species, like Goldfish and
Livebearers, that like hard water. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: RMF Re: Problems with Goldfish (RMF, thoughts on
super-saturation of gases vs. pop-eye)
Oh I missed something in last message, what is RMF??
<The initials of Bob Fenner, owner of this site and general
all-around fish expert. If I'm somewhat outside my limited field of
expertise, I do like to have Bob look over my outgoing messages and
append any thoughts/corrections he deems appropriate. Cheers,
Neale.>
Re: Problems with Goldfish (RMF, thoughts on super-saturation
of gases vs. pop-eye) 2/28/10
Hello again, I have another question , since my water is probably
alkaline for the most part, a pet store owner told me to add aquarium
salt to tank,
<Non sequitur. Salt has nothing to do with hard water, and neither
improves nor worsens hard water conditions.>
( I was asking her what I can do about one with cloudy eye ) in a tank
by himself and another with the Popeye (in another tank with 2 others)
that you said might be an injury. With this all this in mind, should I
use aquarium salt??
<Why?>
I did when she told me but I noticed after a while that the smaller one
with Popeye had started to change color and lose a few scales so I quit
putting it in, but if you think it would help, ill start again!
<All this is here at WWM. Read about aquarium salt, here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/SaltUseFWArtNeale.htm
Read about Pop-eye here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWsubwebindex/fwpopeyefaqs.htm
Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Problems with Goldfish 2/28/10
I thought alkalinity in water meant soft! Sorry
<Nope, alkalinity is roughly the same thing as carbonate hardness.
Water with high alkalinity tends to have a high pH and high general
hardness.
Even if you had soft water, adding salt wouldn't fix that either.
Salt has NOTHING to do with hardness. If your retailer thinks it does,
he/she need to go back to school. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Problems with Goldfish, sys., filter flow
rates 3/3/10
I got my 60 whisper filter today, I has double filter cartridge area
and move 330 gallons per hour, is this too much for my 20 gallon tank
with 3 common goldfish,
<Far too much water current.>
will it cause supersaturation or will it do well for them. I read below
where you stated they need 8 times the gph and you said 240 gallons per
hour is good, I need to know as if this wont help at all or cause
problems I will return it, thanks for the help Cathy
<I would return this. As I said, 6-8 times the volume of the tank is
good. More is unnecessary, indeed, stressful to the fish. Cheers,
Neale.>
Filtration for Goldfish, 75g Tank - 09/24/2009
I currently have 2 Orandas, two 6-8" comets, but need to move four
more comets in, as my leaking outdoor pond needs to be rebuilt.
<Yikes! Leaking ponds are never fun.>
I set up a 75 gallon FW tank in July (2 months ago), using 140lbs
stone, drfitwood, and several bunches of Anacharis from my pond. Cycled
w/Orandas (no stress whatsoever),
<Tell that to the fish. Please don't cycle with fish.... There
are easier ways that don't cause damage to gills, skin, eyes....
Though you might not see the damage, it's still not appreciated by
the fish, I'm sure.>
tank cleared w/no amm/nitrite/nitrate, and added 2 comets, then went
cloudy again and never recovered (4 weeks now). Having read much of the
FAQs on WWW for filtration I realize now my filtration is less than
ideal, and am
agonizing over the best fix (with least amount of cost). Everyone I
spoke w/online and off have all sorts of ideas, mostly running several
hundred dollars (LFS employees and friends with deep pockets
mostly).
<LFS has lots to gain, if they convince you to buy a shiny new
monster of a filter!>
So instead I seek wisdom of the WetWebMedia crew.
<Eek! Wisdom? Uhh, I'll try!>
Hoping you can steer me right in how to improve things!
<Let's see.>
Current setup includes the following:
* EHEIM 2215 Classic (163 gph)- doing so-so for filtration
<Yeah.... That's not NEARLY enough turnover.>
* 2 Hydor Koralia 2 Powerheads (600gph each)- doing great w/water
movement
<Okay, there's the turnover, but no filtration.>
After much fussing w/the Eheim 2215 to make sure I had no air bubbles,
clogs, kinks etc, I cleaned and reassembled, and noticed that the flow
rate really didn't change from the 1st start up when it was newly
installed.
Hence I realize I need more filtration, at least to 6x turnover (or
450gph),
<Yep.>
and more probably would be better (but cost prohibitive).
<I do understand that.>
And now for the guidance help needed: Which of the following options
would be wisest to add, or what other option would you suggest (barring
adding a $400 canister filter)?
*Eheim Powerline Internal Filter 2252 should add an additional 317gph
filtration, bringing me to ~470gph
<Not bad, but.... harder to clean and change media than a standard
power filter. Eheim does make exceptional products, however. I adore
their Professionel II canisters - but they come with that ugly price
tag that you mention.>
OR
*Marineland Emperor 400 to add 400gph, bringing me to 563gph (which
would probably drop as the BioWheel inevitable does)
<This. Actually, I'd probably recommend the Penguin 350 instead.
Though I personally prefer the Emperors (unless I'm feeling lazy),
the spray bars can quickly clog or grow a layer of bacteria which can
significantly reduce
the flow. The Penguin doesn't have that issue, and is super easy to
clean and maintain. Were I you, I'd go with the Penguin 350. Or two
of them, and nix one or both powerheads if the fish dislike that much
water movement.>
Honestly, I'm setting up & maintaining my reef 75gal tank w/a
20gal sump refugium is/was easier than this freshwater tank!
<Heh! Not a big surprise, really!>
I'll keep reading the FAQs, but nothing seems to pop out as being
obvious.
<Hope this has been useful.>
Thanks in advance!
<You're quite welcome, George. Wishing you well,
-Sabrina>
re: 75 gallon filtration, freshwater, planted w/ Oranda
& Comets 9/25/09
I love you guys...thank you for the helpful & quick response!
<Welcome George! BobF>
Goldfish... sys.
11/25/2007 Hi WetWebMedia,
About six months ago, I rescued three goldfish from a county fair. The
goldfish started out about 3/4 of an inch a piece. They are currently
living in a 10 gallon tank with a GREAT filter. However, my goldfish
are rapidly growing and are now about 1 1/2 inches a piece. (One is
closer to two) I realize that even with great filtration, a 10 gallon
tank is not enough, however, my goldfish are still somewhat small. I am
in the market for a new tank, but I don't know what size to buy. I
was considering a 30 gallon. Would this be enough to house my goldfish?
I really don't have room for anything larger, and I read that 10
gallons per adult goldfish should be adequate. I'm not quite sure
on the species of the goldfish, they're just the regular kind they
give away at fairs. Do you think a 30 gallon would be good? Also, what
size filter should I buy, because goldfish are quite messy? (Right now
I have a 20 gallon filter for my 10 gallon) Thank you for your help!
-Carly <Hello Carly. A 30 gallon tank would be perfect for your
Goldfish. 10 gallons per Goldfish is too little space: these fish get
to at least 20 cm in captivity, and potentially more than 30 cm. So A
good rule of thumb is to set aside 30 gallons for the first Goldfish,
and then another 10-15 gallons for each additional Goldfish. Some
people would recommend more space than that, and I certainly
wouldn't disagree with them. Goldfish are schooling fish and like
to be kept in groups, at least a pair. The more is definitely the
merrier. Instead of the fish just sitting there, as tends to happen
when a single specimen is kept, pairs and trios will constantly play
around, chasing each other. To some extent it depends on the variety;
fancy goldfish (i.e., fish with twin tail fins) are less active than
regular goldfish (i.e., fish with a single normal tail fin). Comets and
traditional Goldfish are active swimmers, and the more space you give
them, the better. Length of the tank is more important than depth, so
if that's a factor when choosing between tanks of identical volume,
go for the longer tank. As for the filter, ignore what's written on
the box: manufacturers are often rather vague and/or optimistic when
writing that stuff! Instead, look at the turnover of the filter. This
is a measure of how much water goes through the filter. You want
something that provides a turnover of not less than 4 times the volume
of the tank, and ideally 6 times. So if you had a 40 gallon tank, then
a filter that was 4 x 40 = 160 gallons per hour in size would be the
minimum, and a filter 6 x 40 = 240 gallons per hour would the ideal.
Simple as that. This number will be printed on the box somewhere, and
is usually provided by retailers on their web sites as well. You
don't have to use just one filter, you could simply buy another
filter to go with the one you have. So long as when added together they
provide enough turnover, you're fine. Cheers, Neale.>
Fancy Goldfish Info.,
sys. 3/3/08 Hello again crew (Bob and Salty Dog were
helpful with my last SW inquiries!), I'm in the process of
"shopping" around for my next venture into the wet pet
world. I have a 125 gal FOWLR down in our clubroom and am now
ready to set up a fancy goldfish tank in our new living room
upstairs. I've read quite a lot over the last 2 weeks and
have decided on either the Oranda, Ryukin, or maybe Pearlscale.
I'm trying to think "long term" and was thinking of
investing in another 125 gal for the goldfish as it seems they
would prefer the width and more shallow depth of this sized tank?
<A tank this size would be ideal.> If I go with a 125 gal
for them....how many could I comfortably fit? <At least a
dozen adults. Thirty gallons for the first two adults, and then
about another 10 gallons for each additional fish is about right.
Depends somewhat on the variety, filtration method, etc.> I
was thinking 2 but would 3 be too much? I'd like to start
with young fish and watch them grow so I know the tank will look
a bit bare for quite a while I'm sure. The room is somewhat
formal in decor (old world Italian) and even though my husband
would rather a tank with a large variety of FW....I really prefer
the look and personality of the fancy goldfish.........and the
varieties are just amazing! <Big Goldfish in a spacious,
not-overstocked aquarium can look amazing, especially if care is
taken to use a decent filter (to stop water going cloudy) and
nice decorations are used. In this setting, I'd suggest tall
(3'/1 m) plastic plants in quantity together with terracotta
urns, so you get something like a pond in Ancient Rome or Greece.
Add some decent airstones and maybe some submersible lights, and
off you go!> Ok, now to substrate....I was looking into a
gravel called Shallow Creek Pebble Gravel (25lb bags) from That
Pet Place (I live about 40 min from there) and like the
"natural" look of it. Would this be appropriate for the
larger goldfish? <Fine.> I haven't figured out what do
go with filtration wise but would love to hear any
suggestions........ <Anything, provided not less than 6x the
volume of the tank in turnover per hour. Remember, mechanical
filtration really is important with these messy, herbivorous
fish.> I do know that I will be filtering the heck out of it
though as I know they are "dirty" fish. A neighbor has
a 55gal with? way too many) "feeder" goldfish who are
now about 6+"!! She just bought a Fluval FX5 Canister Filter
(925 gph) and I love how silent it is....you don't even know
it's running. She's only had it a week but her water is
crystal clear and she has A LOT of big fish in that tank. I was
thinking of buying this unit but would an additional means of
filtration be needed (like a hang on box/canister type)? <Skip
the hang on the back/internal filters; too little turnover to be
worthwhile. Go with what you suggest, the big external canister,
perhaps connected to a Reverse Flow undergravel filter so that
detritus is pushed into the water column and sucked into the
filter.> A friend of the family who is building our fireplace
mantle is going to build a custom unit for the tank so as soon as
I know what size I'm getting....we'll start the design.
My problem is where to start!? lol? I was thinking of having him
encase the tank (so you can just view from the front) and have 2
cabinets on either side....one for supplies and the other to
house a large filter of some type (maybe the Fluval) and have him
drill holes for the piping and such to run behind the tank. <A
sump system would work well here, but is perhaps overkill.>
Even though I know they don't "need" light, I will
probably go with something very basic for when we are in the
room/entertaining etc.......and that would be attached to the lid
I suppose. Should I have fans installed on either side of the
"lid" so it doesn't get too warm.....or do you
think that some low light fluorescents won't be much of a
problem? I was thinking of just a full sized hinged top that can
open all the way up for feeding/cleaning, etc. Any suggestions?
<I'd actually use a decent amount of light so you get
(pretty) green algae on the ornaments and plastic plants rather
than the ugly brown algae. Say, 2 Watts per gallon. Use a heater
to keep the tank around 22-24C, and then add a Garra sp. algae
eater of some type. I like Garra; they're pretty, not as big
as Plecs, and constantly active. You might have space for
multiple specimens, though in twos and threes they tend to be
aggressive towards one another. Look at Garra panda, Garra
flavatra and Garra cambodgiensis for example.> And although I
do generally prefer a more natural setting for fish (like mt SW
tank), I don't want the hassle of live plants so we
"may" go with a few artificial ones if any. And I have
looked into the faux stone columns and roman looking tank
decorations (I know..a bit tacky but they'd tie in with the
room?? lol) and wondered if that would be ok for the larger
fish> Nothing overdone.....very simple and clean is the plan.
<All fine. But I suspect garden-sized terracotta will be more
effective at this size scale: at least here in England garden
centres sell many different "urns" and other pots that
are safe in fish tanks and once covered with green algae look
really nice.> I know this is terribly long and I'm asking
more for "personal opinions" rather than having major
concerns but I don't have anyone else to turn to for help.
And of course...I want to do this properly....from setting up the
"correct" type of tank/substrate/filters, etc...letting
it cycle for the proper term, and keeping the fishies happy and
healthy! Thanks so much! Lisa <Hope this helps,
Neale.>
Re: Fancy
Goldfish Info 3/3/08 Thank you Neale for taking the time to respond
to my inquiry! <Not a problem.> Wow......I was a bit
surprised to read a dozen adults! I was thinking 2 full grown
Oranda or Ryukin would be "comfortable" but maybe I
will go ahead and get 3 or 4. I just can't imagine 12 big
goldfish, even in a 125 gal!? They'd eat my checkbook faster
than my SW fish do!?? lol <Indeed. But fancy goldfish
aren't as big or as space demanding as, say, Comets. And 125
gallons is a LOT of tank-space. Especially when you factor in
some decent filtration.> I think I will look into some ancient
looking pots and such and a few artificial plants. I like the
silk ones better than plastic but will goldfish pick at the silk
plants in an attempt to eat them? <The silk plants should be
fine; but modern plastic plants are pretty good, especially when
they have the algae on them *and* are used in bulk. I admit, once
plastic plant sitting there looks kinda crummy.> I will more
than likely go with a large canister type filter (maybe the
Fluval) but what is the reverse undergravel filter you spoke of?
<You set up a canister filter and an undergravel filter. But
instead of putting a powerhead or airstone on the undergravel,
you connect it to the OUTFLOW from the canister filter. So water
is scrubbed in the canister (removing solid waste) and then the
silt-free water is pushed into the gravel and up into the tank
(biological filtration). The benefit is that you don't get
any crud in the undergravel filter (so no "nitrate
factory") and you don't have silt sitting on the bottom
of the tank either, because there is a gentle flow of water
pushing it off into the canister filter.> The only thing I
read about undergravel filters was something that Bob wrote about
them being "old school"......maybe you're speaking
of something different? <Indeed. Reverse-flow UG filters
combine the best of both worlds. The only reason they aren't
more widely used is you can't combine them with plants.>
Is this something I can easily find at the LFS or is it something
I need to rig up myself? <Mostly with off-the-shelf parts.
Might need a little fiddling about to get Brand X canister filter
connected to Brand Y undergravel filter uplifts, but nothing
beyond the wit of man.> the concept sounds good. I initially
wanted to use sand because I thought it would look nice and the
"waste" from the fish would fall on top and it would be
easier to clean (scoop out with a turkey baster even) but other
things I have read say that it's not good with goldfish as
they may inhale too much and too many gasses would get trapped in
the sand. <Sand is excellent with Goldfish and both these
"problems" are myths. For a start, sand is used in
tanks with fish that "earth-eat" precisely because it
doesn't get swallowed or trapped in the gills; it is gravel
that can cause this problem. Secondly, a thin bed of sand is zero
risk of anaerobic decay, and even if you did get anaerobic decay,
oxygen in the water neutralises hydrogen sulphide so quickly
there danger to your fish is non existent. Odd: people accept
anaerobic decay in marine tanks and ponds, but think it is
dangerous in freshwater tanks!> I have a DSB in my FOWLR
marine tank but didn't know if it would be suitable for the
freshwater goldfish I want to house. <Not what I'd use in
this instance, though doubtless it would work.> I also was
curious about your mention of adding an algae eater because
I'm a little nervous about that due to what I've been
reading. Seems that many of these like to "suck" and
some eat the slower moving goldfish......have you heard of this?
<Sounds possible. Have read this, but only observed with very
small algae eaters (Otocinclus spp.).> And algae eater would
help with tank maintenance I'm sure but I don't want
their to be a problem in the long run for the goldfish.
<Indeed; on reflection maybe a good idea to either skip the
algae eater or use something like Apple snails you know will be
safe.> Thanks again and look forward to your response. Lisa
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Fancy
Goldfish Info 3/3/08 Thanks Neale..........you're the best!!
<I try...> Going with the sand.... add some apple snails
I'm ready. I'll have to send pics when it's all set
up and has livestock in it.... <Indeed!> so you'll see
something is say 6-8 months!! lol Lisa :o) <Very good. Enjoy
the aquarium! Cheers, Neale.>
|
Filtration for 190
liters, FW, goldfish 4/19/08 Hi WWM, I'm new to this game so please bear
with me! I am ripping my hair out about Eheim filter/s for my
190L fancy goldfish tank which we would like to put into our
bedroom situated around 50-cm from my ears; when it comes!!! We
are thinking of giving it a try for a month first in the bedroom
(before putting the fish in)! <Good idea; do add fish food
every day or two though: this will "feed" the bacteria,
and so cycle the filter for you perfectly.> I am a light
sleeper and need a deadly quiet filter/s plus worried about the
smell! <A properly maintained aquarium has no smell. Smells
come from decaying things. So if you smell something = fish tank
is dirty! I have had fish tanks in my bedroom. Not a problem. Use
a good external filter. Adjust the outflow so the water
"ripples" but does not splash. Completely silent!>
The guy at the fish-shop suggests the pro 2 2028, but I'm not
sure if it is a good idea to put all my eggs in one basket! I
think it's better to have two on the go. I have a classic
2211 ultra silent on my 60L but is a bit of a pain for cleaning
reasons & getting the top off. So these are my suggestions:
1: 1x 2026 pro 2 plus 1x 2224 pro 1 2: 1x 2028 pro 2 plus 1x 2211
classic 3: 1x 2217 classic plus 1X 2211 classic It's for my 2
fancy goldfish in 60L tank, one with swimming problems &
stunted growth and there two babies six months old in 20L tank.
<Any of these should work.> Turn over 5 times an hour
minimum, I think! My fish are messy, maybe due to overfeeding.
<So: cut back on food! Goldfish need little food. Turnover of
5 times is good for Goldfish. I'd even say 6 is best! Big
filter = less the filter needs cleaning, and the cleaner the
water. Spend a little more money, but save a lot more time! A
good filter lasts many, many years.> I would like to alternate
cleaning. With the 2211 I'm worried I will be cleaning it
every 2 min.s including pipes! eek <I clean my canister
filters once every 2 months! Some of my friends every 6 months!
Take care to remove dirt from the aquarium when you see it, with
weekly water changes of 50%.> Another problem one of my
fancies has a swimming problem so the flow has to be reasonable.
<Also put plastic plants in one or two corners. In nice
clumps. These will break the water flow, and create a gentle area
for the fish to rest. Rocks and wood can be used in the same
way.> So if you have any suggestions for the filter plus your
thoughts on fish-tanks in the bedroom i.e smell & noise! I
will be so so happy. P.S This is becoming an obsession 24/24
<Yes, it can be so!> Thanks a lot Jeanette <Bon chance,
Neale.>
Re: filtration for 190
liters 4/20/08 Hi Neale, Thanks for the speedy reply! I really
appreciate your help - I don't know where us
"rookies" would be without internet sites like yours.
<You are most welcome!> Anyhow I've opted for the full
on 2028 even though it intimidates me a bit & run this along
with the 2211 until I can afford to upgrade the 2211 to a 2215.
<The Eheim 2028 offers 1050 litres per hour; for a 190 litre
aquarium it should be plenty, even by itself.> What do you
think? <A good choice.> For the 2028, I've heard a few
moans & groans that it's not as good as it's made out
to be. <Eheim filters generally have a good reputation.
I've used both Fluval and Eheim filters over the years and
had good experiences with both of them. In general, if either
type rattles or makes odd noises, even when set up properly,
assume it is "broken" and demand a replacement. Both
manufacturers make filters that are silent and easy to use. The
Eheim 2211 and Eheim 2215 filters are "old school" in
design, but work extremely well. I see no real advantage to
upgrading the Eheim 2211 you already have (300 litres per hour)
to the Eheim 2215 (600 l/h) if you are buying the Eheim 2028 as
well. You already have more than 6 times the volume of the tank
in turnover per hour (1050 from the Eheim 2028 + 300 from the
Eheim 2211). That should be ample for Goldfish.> Just curious
- do you have any experience with this pro 11 & what would be
your personal choice out of the batch I've suggested? <No
personal experience. To be honest, I tend to choose the filter
that is best value at the time I go shopping. I balance my needs
against price, and then choose.> I don't want to make any
other mistakes. I think I've gone through the lot!
<Agreed!> Happy fish & a good nights sleep is what
I'm aiming for. Thanks again & have a great weekend
Jeanette <Good luck,
Neale.>
|
Goldfish shut off the undergravel filter? Eats shoots and
leaves... 7/14/06 Hello, <<Hi. Tom with you.>> I
read on your web site that undergravel filters are not recommended for
goldfish. <<Goldfish in particular because of their
"messiness" but the recommendation holds for other species as
well. I, and others, have addressed this one before but it may bear
repeating. We don't recommend against this style of filter because
it doesn't work. They can/do work quite well, in fact. The two
primary causes for concern, however, is that these MUST cover the
entire bottom of the tank and they MUST be maintained properly. When
the first admonition is ignored or misapplied, pockets of detritus/mulm
can build up in the "unfiltered" areas leading to potentially
toxic levels of nitrates in the tank. Also, when not properly
maintained, the same situation may arise should the filter plate(s)
become clogged and left untended. This one may sound like a case of
"pilot error" rather than the fault of the filter and, while
we wouldn't argue that point, there are just too many good
alternatives available to aquarists to justify the use of a style of
filter that has led to a great many problems including otherwise
"mysterious" deaths of livestock.>> I have a 46 gallon
tank with 2 medium Orandas and 1 Ryukin. Currently I have an
undergravel filter and a TetraTec PF500 power filter. I am considering
shutting the undergravel filter off. I have a hot magnum filter that I
could use to clean the gravel with prior to shut down and then reload
with carbon to assist filtration during the transition. Do you have any
advice or feedback? <<Your plan sounds fine and will eliminate
potential problems down the road. Why run the risk?>> Thanks!
<<Any time. Tom>>
Small fantail goldfish with big filter 2/12/07
Hi, <<Hello, Quang. Tom with you.>> I am a beginner and I
learned a lot from your web site. Thank you. <<Youre
most welcome and Im glad to hear weve been of help to you.>> I
have a 30 gallon tank (cube), and I plan to use Fluval 305 for it:
since goldfish can be quite messy. <<Very true. 30 gallons is a
good size, by the way.>> I also plan to have 2 to 4 small fantail
goldfish in it. I wonder if the filter is too much for small
goldfish. <<Keep the number of Goldfish to two,
Quang. The filter you suggest will be fine for these fish. The flow
from the output tube can be regulated by the shutoff handle if you feel
that its too much for the fish. Simply lift it up a little to slow the
flow down. (I have the 304 model and this works very well.)>> Or
should I go for 205 model (which is recommended up to 40 gals)?
<<Id prefer that you use more filtration rather than less. Small
Goldfish wont stay small. Its better to have the larger filter.>>
Thank you very much, Quang. <<Youre very welcome. Tom>>
Filters--question in general then specific to goldfish -
2/11/2006 Hi WWM, <Katie> I'm planning a 29-gallon
goldfish tank (2-3 fancies). I read in your goldfish
care article that wet/dry and trickle filters are not recommended,
that power filters are recommended. What category does
a BioWheel fall into? <An outside, hang-on power
filter...> I kind of thought it was a wet/dry (I guess I thought it
was a trickle too, since water "trickles" over the
wheel!), but the Penguins are in the power filter category
in online stores, so I'm confused. <The BioWheels are basically
Penguins with a wheel added> Also, would you mind
recommending a particular filter for 2-3 goldfish in a
29-gallon setup? <The Penguin would be close to ideal>
Having only an Eclipse right now, I'm not very
filter-savvy, and would appreciate your advice. I
was thinking of just getting the 29-gal Eclipse and calling
it a day, but I don't want to make that decision
based on my "fear of the unknown"! Thank you,
Katie <The Eclipse can be made to work here... with limiting
feeding, keeping low stocking level as you propose, and weekly water
changes in conjunction with gravel vacuuming... Bob Fenner>
Goldfish Filtration - 03/18/2006 I would like to take the
best possible care of my treasured Orandas. These fish are like members
of the family to me. I would die if anything bad ever happened to them.
I just have a few quick questions. 1.)What brand of filter and size is
the best for my goldfish since they produce so much waste? Currently I
have a 29 gallon with two power filters on it. One is a 40 gallon
TopFin and the other is a Marineland 40 gallon Bio Wheel. I add the
Ammo Chips to it to absorb ammonia. I also have a 20 gallon tank with a
30 gallon Tetra Whisper Power Filter. By the way, I did have a Bio
Wheel on the 20 gallon, but it was too noisy in my bedroom, and I also
didn't like it as the only filter because I can't add media to
it. The other tank is in the living room so it doesn't matter. I
heard that Bio Wheels are the best and to get double the gallons of
what your tank actually holds. If Bio Wheels are the best, then I will
go buy one and get used to it because I want the best for them. Also,
how much aeration is recommended for goldies? Each tank has a foot long
bubble bar. < The best filter is the one that is the easiest to
service. Filters collect waste from the system but you need to remove
it from the system. I really do like the Bio-Wheel technology on the
Marineland filters. The Marineland Penguin Model 200 pumps up to 200
gph and has an additional basket for adding filter media. Take the
cartridge out once a week and give a good shot from the nozzle of a
garden hose and you are back in business in no time. With these filters
you do not need a additional bubble wand.> 2.)What is the best
goldfish food? I feed mine Hikari Gold and HBH brand both sinking
pellets. I read really great reviews on a food only available from
Goldfish Connection called Pro Gold and I want to order it. What do
y'all think? < There are lots of foods out there.
Breeders may use foods that are higher in protein to promote spawning
and increase egg production. Many foods are very messy and are designed
for fish kept in large systems. I am always trying out new foods all
the time. Order the smallest quantity you can and try it. You can
always go back.> 3.)What is the best ammonia removing chemical? I am
using Amquel, but I have read a lot about AmmoLock on your site. <
Bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrites and then to nitrates are the
best way to go. They work all the time and are never exhausted or quit.
I use White Diamond from Marineland but really don't use or need it
that often. The other products work very well too. I just have a
preference for a product that works well for my particular water and
fish.> 4.)I test my water at least once a week at PetSmart and my
ammonia is always safe, but the nitrates are high. How can I keep
nitrates down? Are there any good chemicals? I change 20% of the water
about every 10 days. I plan to increase water changes to 25% every week
after doing some research. The pH was also only 6.0 in the 30 gallon
tank! I think that's bad, what do I do? I was going to buy the pH
up by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, but I don't know if that's the
best. Will a sudden increase in pH shock them? < Reduce nitrates
with water changes. Clean the filter, change water and vacuum the
gravel more often. I have not found any chemicals that really work over
a long time to reduce nitrates. Fill a 5 gallon bucket with tap water
and test it. Bring the ph up to 7 in the bucket and let it sit for 24
hours. Check it again the next day. If it is still at seven then you
can use this water for changing water. Never change the pH directly in
the aquarium with fish. Always change it in a separate container first
and make sure it is stable. After a few water changes the pH will
gradually move up to 7 and stay stabile.> 5.)Are there any
scavengers that eat poop? I know that sounds gross, but I would like to
keep the tanks as clean as possible. I do vacuum my gravel once a
month. < Vacuum the gravel more often. Snails and weather loaches
will eat any leftover food and may keep the sand cleaner.> This is
nothing urgent. I have had my 30 gallon tank very successfully for
about a year. The 20 gallon is only about 6 weeks old. I have always
wondered if I am taking the best possible care I can of my goldies. If
there is something I could be doing better, I would love to know. I
greatly appreciate your time and your website. Happy St. Patty's
Day! Thanks so much, Adrienne N. Duque < If all aquarists were like
you we would probably not be needed here at WWM.-Chuck>
Submersible pumps, goldfish sys. 3/31/06
Dear Crew, I have a 29 gallon Wal-Mart tank that used to
house a variety of fish. Due to a bit of a catastrophe, I am
down to 4 goldfish. <This is or will be too many for this
volume...> I have an undergravel filter that is powered by a noisy
pump that vibrates the shelf it is on, and also the wall the shelf is
on. <There are quiet/er pumps available... you may want to look
outside Wal-Mart> There are two air tubes leading from
my pump to my filter. I purchased a Rio 600 submersible pump
to power my filter and please my husband (who keeps unplugging the pump
because it annoys him.) Unfortunately, I cannot figure out
how to hook the Rio pump up to run my filter set up.
<Mmm, it may not be able to... but you might ask that annoyed spouse
to look into flexible tubing that will fit on the discharge of the Rio,
a "tee" to split the flow and tubing and small/er pieces
possibly to adapt to the (currently) discharge pipes of the UG
filter... to make this a "reverse flow" set up... do make
sure to screen the pump intake, as goldfish et al. can be sucked up
against these> Do I need an adapter of some sort or a different
pump? Thank you for your time, Kathy <Can adapt the
Rio... or look for another less noisome air pump... but really, for
goldfish, and this tank, a hang-on power filter with removable sponges,
pockets for using/changing activated carbon, regular/weekly water
changes is about ideal... I would look into this and change all myself.
Bob Fenner>
Re: Submersible pumps, goldfish
sys. 4/4/06 > Dear Crew, > I
have a 29 gallon Wal-Mart tank that used to house a variety of
fish. Due to a bit of a catastrophe, I am down to 4
goldfish. > <This is or will be too many for this volume...>
> I have an undergravel filter that is powered by a noisy pump that
vibrates the shelf it is on, and also the wall the shelf is on. >
<There are quiet/er pumps available... you may want to look outside
Wal-Mart> > There are two air tubes leading from my
pump to my filter. I purchased a Rio 600 submersible pump
to power my filter and please my husband (who keeps unplugging the pump
because it annoys him.) Unfortunately, I cannot figure out
how to hook the Rio pump up to run my filter set up. > <Mmm, it
may not be able to... but you might ask that annoyed spouse to look
into flexible tubing that will fit on the discharge of the Rio, a
"tee" to split the flow and tubing and small/er pieces
possibly to adapt to the (currently) discharge pipes of the UG
filter... to make this a "reverse flow" set up... do make
sure to screen the pump intake, as goldfish et al. can be sucked up
against these> > Do I need an adapter of some sort or a
different pump? Thank you for your time, Kathy > <Can
adapt the Rio... or look for another less noisome air pump... > but
really, for goldfish, and this tank, a hang-on power filter with
removable sponges, pockets for using/changing activated carbon,
regular/weekly water changes is about ideal... I would look into this
and change all myself. Bob Fenner> > Thank you for all
your help and information. I may try to set up the Rio, or
just find a quieter outside pump. I have a hang on filter on
the tank now and had recently added the undergravel because the hang on
couldn't keep up with the load. But then I forgot that
my son had played with the plants in the dishwater and put them back in
and killed most of my fish. I still run the pump for the air stone if
I'm not running the undergravel just to keep some circulation,
so I will need to find a quieter solution!! I
appreciate all the assistance!!!! Thank you, Kathy <Do
look into hang-on power filter options here... Bob Fenner>
Filtering and Tank size 12/24/05 Hi there, I have a
small white fantail goldfish but am having some difficulty with
his tank. The tank is a 18x9x10. He's a year old now and sadly his
tank mate died after having swim bladder problems so he's all
alone. <No worries. Goldfishes don't get/feel lonely...> I
take a pint of water out and replace it with a fresh pint each week and
feed him once a day. <Mmm, better to change a bit more out, feed
twice daily. Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/gldfshsystems.htm>
My problem lie's with the filter I bought a few months ago. It
is what the pet shop recommended me for the tank size but
when I got is up and running it was blowing him about
everywhere. In the end he just swims against the current or
hides in his treasure chest. I went back to the pet shop
and explained what was going on and was told that it was
quite normal and the fish would get used to it. <Mmm, am
not so sure here... some current, circulation is useful, but there are
limits> Its been quite a few months now and I only switch it on for
a hour or two each day because I can't stand the sight
of my fish swirling about. It's just a shame. Is this
ok? <No...> The pet shop said his filter should be on 24 hours a
day but I really don't think he could handle that all
the time. The filter is the smallest I can get and is on the lowest
setting. Is it possible to not use it at all? <I would
trade this filter in... talk with someone else at the shop... perhaps
the owner or manager... there are small/er hang on units that do a good
job for this size (about ten gallons) and type system> I was told
that all fish need a filter whether you change the water on
not, did they only say this to sell me it? Thank you, Steff <Do
speak with someone else at your LFS. Bob Fenner>
Filtration for Big Pond Fish in a tank
Hello, I bought a used 150 gallon tank for over-wintering my pond fish,
a 12 inch goldfish and a 15 inch koi. The tank came with a UGF, a
Magnum 350 and an Emperor 400. I have been using 3 400gph powerheads on
the UGF and am running a HOT Magnum with bio media. I vacuum the gravel
once a week and change 30% of the water, but cannot seem to stay ahead
of the accumulation of waste. <Good protocol... but these are messy
fishes... I would cut way back on feeding... especially if the water is
cool> I had hoped to be able to rotate cleaning the filters so they
were cleaned every four weeks, but they have been clogging in just 2
weeks. <I would clean one or the other every week, when you do your
gravel vacuuming/water changes> These fish will go into a 400 gal
stock tank with my water lilies in another 6 weeks, but I would
appreciate suggestions to help me next winter. Do I need more, or
different, filtration? Should I vacuum the gravel and siphon water more
often? Or do I need another approach altogether? Thank you very much.
Kerry <You might want to add a couple of large size in-tank
air-driven "corner filters"... with "wool" (Dacron
floss) and activated carbon... otherwise, your set-up is about ideal...
Some folks would caution you against the UG use... but if you're
changing water as you state, and your source water has sufficient
alkaline reserve (buffer), I think this is fine. Bob Fenner>
Filtration for Big Pond Fish in a tank - II
Hi Bob, Thanks for the quick reply, the suggestions and the
encouragement. What is the concern about using the UGF? For
several years I kept a 75 gal tetra tank and used the UGF plus 2 HOT
Magnum Filters, so I assumed I should use the UGF on this tank.
<Ah, times change... am still a big fan of this technology... for
some applications. Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/ug5proscons.htm
> I will purchase corner filters for use next year, thanks for that
idea. I am using AquaClear powerheads and they make a Quick Filter
attachment for them. Would it be feasible to disconnect the powerheads
from the UGF and use them with the Quick Filters stuffed with
floss? <Mmm, not practically... much better to use air...
added benefits of aeration... Look at the Tetra Luft pumps for best
value here> Once the fish go outside I will have the summer to play
with the setup. Thanks again, Kerry <Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Goldfish System Filtration Hello There!
Wondering if you guys can steer me to the proper canister filter for
our 75 gallon bowfront aquarium. This aquarium has been up and running
for 4 months. It houses 5 Fancy Goldfish ranging in sizes 2-5 inches.
The aquarium has cycled. Yes, I know that Goldfish are messy
:-) The problem lies with the fact that I am now having to
change the water (this is a 70% change) twice a week in order to have
anything resembling clean water for these fish. We are presently using
a Fluval 404 canister filter. <Just one? I would have used at least
two for a standard community tank. For goldfish, I really like to use
trickle filters if possible.> Filter media (floss) is changed on a
rotating schedule a day after the water change. Half of the media is
changed, sponges are squeezed out in the tank water. <The water
changes are helping, but removing and disturbing your filtration is
not. Even tough you are under filtered, all of this
"maintenance" has got to be wreaking havoc on your nitrifying
bacteria.> Tank is vacuumed every water change! I truly have stopped
over feeding, as I did at first. Lights are on about 9-10 hours
daily. So, we are figuring that the Fluval filter is not the
proper filter for our setup. <I agree.> To be fair, I understand
it is made to work below the tank, and we have it set up beside the
tank. Our tank sits on the hearth about 5 inches off the floor, with
the canister beside it. <This is both a plus and a minus. The
reduced head pressure should make the pump's work easier and
increase the flow, but it will make it harder to clear the air out of
the canister.> With the tank covering the fireplace opening, there
is no type of hang on filter we can use. There is A LOT of air trapped
constantly in the Fluval, although we are constantly messing with it.
We were thinking of switching to an Eheim canister, the biggest they
make! It would be another enormous expense, and as much as we are
enjoying the fish, the every other day chores (water change or filter
change) are getting exhausting and I don't want to put money into
something else that is not going to work out. Sorry if this is so long!
<No worries> Do you have any recommendations on what we are doing
wrong, <Yes to the water changes, with perhaps being able to cut
back to one per week of about 50%, but with 5 goldfish in a 72 you are
going to have to perform large frequent water changes. It is the filter
itself and your cleaning of it that is hurting you. I would add a
second canister filter, as that is all you could add due to placement,
and I would clean each filter less. Once per month for each, one every
other week on alternate schedules.> and if the Eheim would work for
us? <Yes, in combination with your Fluval.> Thanks much for your
time! ~Robyn~ <I do want to mention that you should be applauded for
your incredible efforts thus far. Few people are willing to put in the
amount of time and effort you have done. -Steven
Pro>
Fun with Your Goldfish - Revisited Hi! <Hello again,
Eitan!> I have two Veil-Tails and two Shubunkins in an aquarium,
<Still in the same size tank (8gUK)? I cannot stress how
much these guys need large volumes of water....> I have heard that
you can teach goldfish to follow your finger along the glass. Do you
know of any methods that I would be able to teach them to do this?
<Indeed. Just get them to start accepting food from your
fingers during feeding time, and get them to the point where
they'll take the food from you even when your fingers are mostly in
the water. Soon, they'll associate fingers with food,
and will follow your fingers quite gladly, hoping to get some food out
of 'em, even through the glass.> In addition, I have made a
(fish-safe) hoop for them to swim through but they seem to be ignoring
it! Are there any ways to tempt them to go through it?! <I hate to
break it to you, but goldfish really aren't that
bright. In fact, they're pretty dumb. If it
doesn't involve food, they're not interested.> Also, the
Veil Tails sometimes swim to the top and it looks like they stick their
mouth's out of the water and breath the air. <Very likely
they're just looking for food - but it could be due to a lack of
oxygenation, as well. If in doubt, add an air stone to the
tank.> I use a Fluval 1 plus filter <Regardless of your tank
size, this is vastly under-filtered for four goldfish. As I
said in our previous email, these are MESSY fish. Simply
said, they poop a lot. Weekly water changes (or more often
than that, even, in such a small tank with such a heavy bioload),
infrequent feedings, and heavy filtration are a very serious
must. Goldfish really need to have 10-15 US gallons per fish
to be easily maintained.> and add a biological supplement and an
Easy Balance product to neutralize the pH and reduce ammonia and
nitrate levels every week, so I think the water should be clean.
<Adding chemicals without doing water changes really isn't a
good idea. When you do water changes, you should use a
dechlorinator. Goldfish are tolerant of a very large range
of pH, so keeping it steady at whatever comes out of your tap is more
important than trying to keep changing it to 7.0. Please do
very frequent water changes, vacuum the gravel when you do them, and
get a much stronger filter - I prefer the hang-on-the-back types,
myself, and I believe you'd find them very easy filters to
use/maintain. And most of all, I cannot stress how important
it is to aim for a much larger aquarium soon.> Thank you very much
for your help and I am sorry to take up your time, Eitan, London <No
prob. -Sabrina>
Undergravel filtration, and funky water
quality Dear fish saviors, <Good afternoon, Kaz - Sabrina here
with you this lovely (rainy) lunch hour> I've had a long and
generally successful fishkeeping career but this year 2 of my goldfish
died (at ages 19 and 17 years old). <Oh my. What a
loss. I'm so sorry to hear that.> Only one sad
survivor was left. I was away, the water went 'off' and they
died :( Anyway, I worked hard to stabilize the tank with the Lone Black
Moor (who had some scars, general poor condition, floating prob.s etc).
He came good and after a few months I got LBM some friends - a small
comet and a small fantail. My problems came back. The new guys were
hungry all the time and I am guilty of giving in to their shameless
begging. <Just say 'no'! to fish obesity ;) > Also I
changed fish food on advice of LFS (sinking pellets, 34% protein) and
am not sure if this has contributed to the instability. <And what
were you feeding with before? Do your guys get any vegetable
matter?> LBM seemed happier and with more energy but developed two
little white spotty bits on his head. These then seem to have gone away
(I treated with fungal cure) but he has a new one further back on his
head. <Can you describe this in a bit further detail? Do the spots
stick out? Or are they pits? Are they fuzzy
looking? Waxy looking? Look like
cauliflower? How big are they?> After uncontrollable pH
problems I checked with LFS and changed my filtration system (from
charcoal and wool type filter to undergravel filtration).
<Filtration isn't very directly related to pH swings (except as
far as organic materials building up), I can't imagine why they
told you to switch....> But my question is (I know its very naive
but..) how do I keep it clean? I have used the gravel siphon cleaner
thingee and have done a 25% water change since I got the UGF two weeks
ago but my plants are disintegrating. <Argh. UGF and live
plants do *not* play well together, and there's not much of a way
to make 'em work out. Your only plant species is elodea,
correct? Perhaps try letting it float only, and see if it
grows any better.> We work in centimetres and litres here in
Australia <I wish we did, too!> so I'm not sure of how many
gallons but tank is 24inches x 12inches x 12inches. It is certainly not
overcrowded, with the LBM and his two new little friends and the plants
are (or were) Elodea. <Okay, I do believe that's about 15 US
gallons. I usually recommend goldfish to be kept in tanks
where they'll have 15-20 gallons per fish; they are hefty waste
producers, and can foul the water very, very quickly. Three
goldfish in a 15g aquarium with an undergravel filter.... well, I can
guess that in short order, you'll have some serious nitrate
problems, possibly other water quality issues, even with the best
maintenance possible.> How do I clean the crud which I assume is
collecting under the plastic UGF tray??? <Wonderful
question. I've heard using silicone air hose fed down
the lift tube(s) and siphoning from there will help get some of the
grunge out.> Should I go easy on the gravel siphon thingee?
<Gosh, no. Vacuum like a madman. And slap that
wet/dry filter back on the tank, too. Then when you vacuum
your gravel, let the filter cartridge stay in the filter so you've
got plenty of bacterial life still around. Probably only vacuum
about half the tank each time, as well.> Did another partial change
today and the fish are happy and starving but there are lots of floaty
bits of plant matter still in there. Should I siphon these out?
<Yes, absolutely. Dead, decaying plant matter will
contribute to ammonia problems just as will fish waste.> When I do
water changes I use Cycle, ammonia treatment, <Skip the ammonia
remover, unless you're registering ammonia on your ammonia test -
oho, I should mention/ask that you should be testing for ammonia,
nitrite, nitrate, and pH - if you don't, please do get yourself a
kit, so you can have a better grip on your water
quality. And far better than using ammonia remover schtuff
is to simply do more frequent water changes.> pH stabilizer,
<What's the pH out of your tap? It's far more
important to keep pH stable than to keep affecting it chemically;
goldfish are very pH tolerant, so if your tap waters anywhere close to
decent, they'll be fine without pH altering chemicals.>
StressZyme, Tristart chlorine and chloramine remover. I let the water
sit for 24hours, make sure the temp is the same etc. <Wonderful.>
My main concern is that I found out from your site that UGF require
lots of work but what type of work? Can you let me know what I need to
do to keep my friends happy? <Mostly the weekly vacuuming of gravel,
jamming air hose down lift tubes. UGFs must be cleaned
thoroughly and religiously, lest all that waste building up in the
gravel begin to poison the fish. If it is in any way
possible whatsoever, please, please try to get a larger tank for these
fellas. Believe me, they'll thank you for
it. Wishing you and your scaly pals
well, -Sabrina> Cheers, Kaz
Undergravel filtration, and funky water quality
- take two Thanks, Sabrina, Will head off and get the testing kit
today. <Wonderful! Try to get a liquid reagent type kit,
the test 'strips' that you just dip in the water can be grossly
inaccurate.> I suppose what puzzles me is how come I could keep the
same number of goldfish (and same type) in the same tank for 8 years
(since the last fish arrived) with little problem - long living and
happy fish - and now everything's going wrong??
<Likely you going away and the water turning south started your
problems. These are really, really messy, waste producing
fish, and in such a small tank, missing even one regular water change
will result in a buildup of waste toxic enough to kill
them. Hence the major reason I usually recommend 15-20 US
gallons per goldfish, there's SO much more room for error in a
larger tank.> The white spots on the remaining old fish are small
and very white, about large pinhead size, they seem to stick out and
after a few days just fade to nothing. <This sounds like either
Lymphocystis or fish pox, both of which can be found in goldfish from
time to time. Lymphocystis is kinda cauliflower-like in
appearance, whereas fish pox looks rather waxy. Both are
viral infections, and there is no treatment. Fortunately,
neither are often fatal. Just maintain the best water
quality you can, with regular water changes and testing, and he should
be fine.> Apart from plants in the tank I don't give them any
veggies - should I? Thanks! Kaz <Couldn't
hurt. Mine adore unsalted canned peas (rinse, and squeeze
the inside of the pea out of the shell). Blanched zucchini
is another good one. Lots of goodies out there for them, but
just the Elodea will do, if necessary. Best wishes to
you, -Sabrina>
Goldfish, meet Filter. Hey A couple of days
ago my fantail goldfish was partially sucked up in the filter (that
filter was replaced so the incident would not happen to the other fish
in the tank). <Ouch!> A lot of his fins were sucked
off and only the ridges are left of the tail, the small
"threadlike" things that run through the tail and hold the
webbing I think. <The 'rays', yes.> He's
been isolated and seems to be doing better, I know his tail will grow
back but I'm not sure how long I need to keep him in isolation (I
don't want the others to pick on him while he's still trying to
recover). <Until he is back to normal, or nearly so, I
would keep him separate, for sure.> By reading some of the FAQs I
learned that I should put in some medication to help him heal but
I'm not sure what it is or how much. <I have found
Kanamycin and/or Nitrofurazone to be quite useful in treating fin rot,
and preventing/eliminating bacterial infection. Aquatronics
manufactures these as "Kanacyn" (Kanamycin sulfate) and
"Spectrogram" (Nitrofurazone/Kanamycin combo).> Also, I am
at college and have to go home soon, I can't leave the fish in my
dorm because there is no one to check in on them and all sorts of
maintenance work has to be done to the room over the month long break,
so I need to take them home with me. What is the best way to
transport all of them and especially the weak one? Its a
four and half hour drive, and I'm not quite sure the way to give
them the most stress free ride. <I have transported fish
long-distance (four days' travel, at the longest) using Styrofoam
crates lined with clean, unscented, watertight trash bags, filled
partway with aquarium water (and treated tapwater as necessary), and
aerated with battery-operated aerators. For a (comparably)
short drive such as yours, you could probably get by quite well with a
large bucket with a battery-operated aerator. A five gallon
bucket filled halfway would do nicely; keep it covered so it'll be
dark for the fish. The sick fish, if still undergoing
treatment, should be transported in a separate
container. Try to avoid bumps, don't drive like a
maniac, etc., etc., and always wear your seatbelt ;) > Appreciate
your advice, Jessie Howard <Hope all goes
well, -Sabrina>
Keeps Killing Biological Filter I have a
ten gallon tank containing three average size goldfish, one large
goldfish and an average black moor. For the past several weeks I've
found that they've been gasping for air at the top of the tank.
Several times, the goldfish have developed red marks on their faces.
Each time I've done either a partial or total water change and
cleaned the sides of the tank. Afterwards, the gasping stops for two to
three days and then continues with a transparent brown film on the
sides of the tank and gravel. I've tried parasite treatment, ick
treatment, algae treatment and anything else I've come by. Any
advice at all would be appreciated. I can't stand seeing my fish
like this. < Check the nitrates. Your filter should be turning the
water over at least 3 times an hour. Goldfish in general are pretty
messy so you may need more, especially in a ten gallon tank. I suspect
that the biological filter is having a tough time keeping up and is
slowly converting the ammonia to nitrites. A slow conversion may have
led to elevated levels of ammonia and have started burning the gills,
thus the red on the face. I would recommend a filter that you can
easily service, make sure there is no left over food after every
feeding. and to check the nitrates so you can establish a regular water
changing schedule and not have to wait until the fish are so stressed
that they are gathering at the surface of the
water.-Chuck>