FAQs on the Neon
Tetras Disease/Health
Related Articles: Cardinal
Tetras; A School of Beauty, Part
II, by Alesia Benedict,
Neons, Cardinals & Their Kin;
Selection, Maintenance & Healthcare by Neale Monks,
Characid Fishes,
FAQs on: Neon Tetras 1 , Neon
Tetras 2,
FAQs on: Neon Tetras
Identification, Neon Tetras
Behavior, Neon Tetras
Compatibility, Neon Tetras
Stocking/Selection, Neon Tetras
Systems, Neon Tetras Feeding,
Neon Tetras
Reproduction/Breeding,
Related FAQs: Cardinal Tetras, Characid/Tetra Fishes,
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NTD 7/10/19
Hi
<Hello!>
I think I had Neon Tetra Disease in my tank where I had neons
barbs, Otos and variety of shrimps. Neons and barbs all died, while Otos and
shrimp seems to be ok. My question is: can shrimps be carrier of the disease?
<Theoretically, for short periods (e.g., if moved from one tank to another
within a few hours) then any wet object, be it a snail, shrimp, plant or rock,
can potentially carry the motile stages of any parasite that survives for a
while outside a host. But the Microsporidian parasite involved here only passes
between fish and intermediate hosts (such as Tubifex worms) and back again. It
doesn't, so far as I know, linger outside of either host for very long.>
So if waited month or so and decided to put new stock in, would they get
infected through shrimps?
<Unlikely.>
Anybody knows what should I do?
<There really isn't a 'perfect' way to manage Neon Tetra Disease. It can be
imported to your aquarium in a very wide range of species, nor just Neons or
even tetras, but even species such as Danios that aren't closely related to
Neons at all. But because we do know the parasite seems to pass directly
between infected fish (e.g., cannibalism after the death of a host) or else via
live foods (such as Tubifex) it is possible to break the cycle by removing
infected fish, quarantining new livestock, and avoiding live
foods.>
Many Thanx,
Aghii
<Hope this helps. Cheers, Neale.>
Black ghost knife fish, glass catfish, and neon tetras
5/12/18
Hi,
Thank you for your website. It’s very informative.
<Hello Vicki, and thanks for the kind words. However, sending 20 MB of
attachments completely messed up our email box, which causes some people's
messages to be sent back to them as undeliverable. We do politely ask people
keep attachments down to a minimum size, around 500 kB for images, by resizing
them in a graphics application of their choice.>
I have queries about 3 fish species.
<Fire away.>
I have a BGK (see photos attached). Out of its anus this pink growth has
suddenly appeared (happened 4 days ago). At times what appears to be
faeces still is coming out so don’t think it’s a blockage. It’s behaviour
remains unchanged. It’s still appears happy and is swimming around and eating.
I’ve read on your website not to feed it blood worms (unsure why?). What else
can we feed it other than bloodworms, brine shrimp, and daphnia? I have been
feeding it bloodworms and brine shrimp and it has also been eating vegetarian
food I put out for my bottom feeders (such as spinach, broccoli, carrot, shelled
peas, couchette, cucumber, and pellets) and flakes. I apologise for the grainy
photos but it is very difficult to get clear images from a fish tank.
<I'm not sure this is the anus of the fish. Looks a bit far forward. The anus
should be well past the gill covers, and close to the front of the anal fin.
<<Mmm; actually; this knifefish, and others, do have a "jugular" placed
cloaca... "anus". RMF>>
But
if it is what you say it is -- and you can see the fish better than me! --
then a prolapse may be the issue here. Various reasons for this, but
often internal protozoan parasites or worms at the cause. Medicating with
Metronidazole alongside a good antibiotic such as Nitrofuran would be my first
move. Deworming is worth a shot, for example with PraziPro. Sometimes prolapses
are triggered by dietary shortcomings, so review this aspect alongside
medication.>
One of my glass catfish appears to have white spot? I’ve been
treating it with Melafix and Pimafix for 6 days and it remains unchanged.
Same with the neon tetras who have had continuous growths and damage to
their fins since we got them (8 weeks or so). We’ve been treating them with
Melafix and Pimafix in a hospital tank but they don’t seem to be getting better.
<These are both somewhere on a sale from unreliable to useless.>
We’ve even tried “tonic” a mixture of Methylene blue mixed with malachite green.
It didn’t work.
<Indeed not; neither of these is considered first-rate anti-Whitespot
medications. The old salt/heat method works well if this truly is Whitespot (2
gram salt/litre water, plus water temperature raised to 28 C) but many aquarists
simply prefer to use a commercial anti-Whitespot medication, such as eSHa EXIT.>
We have even tried feeding them with their flakes soaked in Seachem garlic
guard. We don’t want to keep treating our fish and would like these issues
resolved.
<Again, nothing about garlic treats Whitespot.>
Other fish that live with the BKF and glass catfish are Plecos, Kuhli loaches,
black neons, clown loaches, chain loaches, striata loaches, varies Gourami,
female Betta, golden tetras, albino shark, bristle nose catfish, and Colchis
blue (I think they are called).
<No idea what that last fish might be! But in any case, Black Ghost Knifefish,
most catfish, and most loaches are very intolerant of copper and formalin, so
choose medications very carefully. The salt/heat treatment is safe with them, as
are Metronidazole and true antibiotics.>
We use RO DI water and all our parameters are perfect.
<I'd prefer the actual parameters over your interpretations, to be honest. But
providing you have fairly soft to middling water chemistry (1-12 degrees dH, pH
6.5-7.5) this mix of fish should be fine. I trust you are not using pure RO
water, but are adding something to it, whether hard tap water or commercial
Discus buffer? Straight RO water is not helpful.>
Tanks are well oxygenated as well.
Any help you can give will be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks,
Vicki
<You're welcome, Neale.>
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Re: Black ghost knife fish, glass catfish, and neon tetras
5/12/18
Hi Neale,
Thank you for your prompt reply. I apologise for sending through large
photos. Will know for next time.
<Cool.>
I appreciate your help.
Thanks,
Vicki
<You are most welcome! Good luck, Neale.>
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Help with neon tetra 6/15/17
<12 megs; groan....>
Dear Crew at Wet Web Media,
Tank - 100 liter
Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 15, GH 10, KH 7, PH 7.5
8 cherry barb, 8 emperor tetra, 7 neon tetra, 2 phantom tetra
Fluval external canister filter, internal air driven sponge filter.
I have previously kept a 50 liter tank and decided to move to a 100 liter about
6 months ago. I quarantined all fish for 6 weeks and tank was cycled from the
start as I used media from old tank.
After about a month in the main tank, one of the Neons developed a white
lump on both sides of the tail on the red part. These grew very slowly
for about a month and another smaller lump developed on its side, closer to the
middle of its body. Once or twice one of the lumps seemed to exude a white
substance which then went after a day or two but the lump remained. Otherwise
the fish swam, ate and behaved normally. Eventually, the lumps got wider and the
fish started to have trouble breathing but was still trying to eat etc. I
decided to euthanise with clove oil. This was a week ago. Just today, I noticed
another neon has developed a small but telltale white lump in the same red
pigmented area. I don't know what to do as I have no idea what it is. Fungus,
Columnaris, neon tetra disease,
<This likely: Pleistophora hyphessobryconis>
I've looked them all up but none of them really fit. Because of this I did not
medicate as it seemed like I was firing in the dark. If you have any advice or
just a hunch as to what it could be I would really appreciate it.
The worst thing is that it doesn't really fit any one disease That are common to
neon tetra.
<See here as an example:
http://www.theaquariumguide.com/articles/neon-tetra-disease
Bob Fenner>
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Re: Help with neon tetra 6/16/17
Hello,
<Vic>
Thank you for your quick reply.
<Welcome>
Could I just ask you, if it is Neon Tetra Disease, can it infect my other
fish, being cherry barb, emperor and phantom tetra?
<Unfortunately, yes. More likely the other Tetras, but the Barbs as well>
Also, I assumed it was a very fast acting disease, killing the fish quickly,
so in my case can the disease be chronic, and take over a month to kill the
fish?
<At times; yes>
Many thanks,
Vicki
<As many welcomes. BobF>
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Cannibalistic neon tetras.... No. 4/10/16
Ok so I had 5 neon tetras, but after a few days I had to return them.
Everytime I had fed my fish I would make sure to make some food fall to
the bottom, because they're near the bottom, but they'd never eat any,
<.... What are the water conditions here? pH, hardness, temp.?
Are there measurable metabolites? What numbers?>
they'd see it swim up to it, look at it, and swim away.
After 3 days of having them I had come home and found 1 dead, so I
returned it and got a replacement, but when I had gotten home I found
another one dead, and 2 wounded. Now the 2 wounded looked like a fish
had eaten part of it,
because one had its whole top fin missing leaving a chunk of skin
exposed and a part of its tail missing, he soo died. The other one had a
piece of its top fin missing also, but not to the extreme of the other
one. I had 2 Molly's
with them
<Incompatible.... need very different water conditions. SEE as in READ
on WWM re both>
but I had fed them before I left to return that you dead fish, and they
mainly stay at the top of the tank, they didn't bother the tetras at
all. I believe the tetras had a fight or went cannibalistic on each
other.
<No; you' re killing them>
Does that actually happen with blue neon tetras? What do u think
happened? What could I have done better? Or how could I have prevented
this?
<Reading, understanding what you're up to>
Side note: when adding fish into the aquarium I do leave the bag 20
minutes, then add, little by little, my aquarium water into the bag so
they can get adjusted to it, and not stress as much. I also wait 10
minutes in between adding more water, to prevent stress.
<If there's measurable ammonia, higher pH in your system than the
shipping water; they're being poisoned by this SOP. Bob Fenner>
More dwarf cichlid problems, and sick neon?
3/12/16
Hello crew, hope you have been doing well.
I am writing you again, as im having troubles with a female ram I've had
for about 2 years.
<Mikrogeophagus ramirezi; a difficult species at the best of times, not
particularly good quality fish exported from most fish farms, and very specific
in terms of requirements. High temperature, low hardness, low pH, and low
nitrate all essential. Modern farmed strains are not especially long lived,
either. The majority of specimens last a few months in community tanks, I'd
wager, partly because of the wrong conditions, but also simply poor genes. Two
years isn't bad, really. For sure they might last 4-5 years in ideal conditions,
but unless you've got wild-caught (or good quality tank-bred) specimens, I bet
that's pretty rare. It's also a fact these fish compete poorly in mixed species
set-ups. They're mini earth-eaters, and really need a soft substrate that allows
them to sift out algae and tiny invertebrates at their leisure. They'll eat
flake, but whether they get enough is hard to be sure if other fish are stealing
it first, and if you aren't using dried foods but frozen bloodworms (for
example) that certainly isn't going to work for long.>
She is in a 150 gal high tech tank. The tanks been setup since day 1 with a
seeded 1600l/h powerhead and a smaller 500l/h ( it also has a hang on back
filter, and waiting on a canister to reach me via mail). Its been setup for 3
months and plants are starting to take off a lot. Im running pressurized co2 and
the surface is kept with small disruption( during the night co2 is left on but
there is a lot of surface disruption.)
Parameters are:
Ph: 7.2
GH: 12
Kh: 10
<Do see above. Bottom line: these are soft water fish.>
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite :0
Nitrates: 30
<Should be okay, but as with most cichlids, once nitrate goes above 20 mg/l,
you're providing a source of stress.>
Since i first moved my oldest ramirezi she's been sort of breathing heavily, not
gasping but opening her mouth very wide, still ate and was very active/colorful.
2 weeks ago i added another ram, this time another female, vastly larger than
the one i already had in there( i would think this ones a male as it doesn't
have a red belly but does have blue, iridescent spots on its black mark so not
sure). I have seen the new, bigger ram bullying the smaller one. The new ram is
completely ok, no heavy breathing and no hiding, while my oldest ram has taken
to hiding most of the day. Just now i noticed her tail is split horizontally in
two... No blood or wound, just a divided tail and she really looks stressed (
though colorful).
<Your observations are correct. Rams are territorial, and in the wild, a lot of
these dwarf cichlids are actually harem spawners. Mikrogeophagus ramirezi is an
exception, according to Loiselle, but to call them invariably monogamous is
probably, I think, an overstatement, and more to the point, females will be
mildly territorial towards one another, even if the male isn't (as with harem
spawners) moving in and out of their territories each time he mates with them.
So in short, yes, females will bicker, and it's a good idea to provide definite
territorial boundaries (like rocks) as well as safe houses (upturned coconut
shells, caves, etc.) so each female can space itself out from the other.>
This is a 150 gal, 60' x 24' footprint tank, they are the only cichlids, sharing
the tank with a shoal of blue, cardinal, neon and lemon tetras, 4 boesemanni
rainbows, 5 kuhli loaches, 2 Rineloricaria parva, 3 Otos, a chocolate gourami
and a single, small Bala shark ( was taken from another aquarist, i have plans
to rehome him/ complete his school)
<Some interesting choices there. Do review water temperature requirements in
particular, as this is an issue, even with South American species. Contrary to
popular perception, South America isn't just one habitat but a huge range of
them, and Rams come from the "llanos", a very different environment to the
rainforest. Open grassland, bright sunshine, reliably high temperatures, and
very soft water are all characteristics of the llanos. Contrast this with Neons,
for example, which may share similar water chemistry requirements but come from
shady rainforests where the water temperature is a lot lower, 22-24 C/72-75 F
being ideal for them.>
I don't think its the gas as she was like this before i started gassing the
tank. Should i rehome? Would the bigger ram be the cause of her split tail? I
have kept/bred about 4 other rams in a 40 gal and they never have really hurt
each other, just chase/ flare.... And this is such a big tank i mean... Makes no
sense.
<I doubt the problem is the CO2 fertilisation, but rather social behaviour.
Given time and space they should settle down, but if you can rehome one or
other, that's not a bad idea. Alternatively, allow about 30 cm radius around the
cave or nest claimed by each pair, and if necessary, move some of the plants and
rocks in your tank to reset the territorial boundaries. Removing the aggressive
fish to a breeding trap for a few hours can help, allowing the less aggressive
fish time to claim its patch. Turn the lights out before releasing the
aggressor, and with luck, they'll tolerate each other better. Failing that,
adding further females will diffuse aggression between them all, reducing the
tendency of any one fish to be bullied. A tank your size should allow for this
without problems. One cave at one end, another cave at the other, and four or
five caves in between them, each about 30 cm apart, ideally with rocks and
plants to break up the "line of sight" between each fish. Make sense?>
No other problems with other fish except for a neon tetras which just today
showed up swimming upside down, very active and feeding... He is just...
Floating upside down, struggling to keep down, i have since separated him to a 3
gal container ( with a small seeded sponge and a bubbler) , i have tried feeding
him peas but he doesn't take it... Im guessing he's caught air?
<Again, Neons are very poor quality fish these days. Do review Neon Tetra
Disease, and any fish suffering from these symptoms is best humanely euthanised
(Clove Oil is my preference for this) to prevent infection of others.>
Im pretty bummed... I would appreciate some help with this.
Thanks again, Roberto.
<Hope this helps. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: More dwarf cichlid problems, and sick neon? 3/15/16
Temperature of tank is 26-27 c. No heater that's room temperature. Substrate is
fine volcanic gravel ( soft) just a little bigger than silica sand.
<Nice.>
The neon tetra has completely cured ( for all I can notice) but will be kept on
the 3 gal for a few more days. Today while cleaning I found the ram swimming in
circles, at the substrate and generally looks disoriented/ not responding. In
pretty bad shape.
<Very odd. But will refer you to previous message about Neons and Rams having
much different thermal requirements.>
I have made sure to keep my dwarves in clean, well filtered water ( never exceed
40 ppm in nitrates and generally kept at 20) I have had this ram breed once and
an agassizii pair breed twice. I feel this is more on the parasitic side?
<Possibly, but short of the standard Metronidazole and Nitrofuran antibiotic
combination that works so well with cichlids, there's nothing immediately
obvious you should do. Rams just aren't robust fish in anything other than
llanos-type situations, and things like Mycobacteria infections are so common
with them, and so untreatable, that it's hard to pin down when they die because
of illness from when they die from environmental stress. Indeed, there's
probably an argument for saying one influences the other.>
She is floating right now on her side, with a slight curvature to her spine and
a slight bump. She has been separated to another small tank.
<Spinal deformities usually aren't promising, and by the time this happens, the
fish rarely recovers.>
Doesn't look like she can make it... But any insight into this will be
appreciated. As always, thank you very much, for your time.
Roberto
<If this were me, I'd be euthanising humanely, and reflecting on the
appropriateness of this particular species on what sounds to be a nice little
community tank. Cheers, Neale.>
Neon Tetras - not sure what they've got... Neale?
9/1/15
Dear WWM crew,
<Hi there>
Christina here. Thanks for helping me ID my neon tetra issue. I don't know
whether this is Saprolegnia, Columnaris, lymphocystis, Ich or neon tetra
disease. Please see photos attached.
<Nice pix>
The setup: Innovative Marine 8G tank with trickle filter custom InTank canister
packed with floss, bio media, Purigen and PolyFilter, plus some other bio ball
thingies in the sump. I know small tanks aren't ideal but it's my daughter's and
a larger tank didn't fit in her room. The filter is fairly vigorous and turns
over at last 10x per hour. Stock is one platy, 5 black phantom tetras (who have
been spawning recently) and 10 neons.
I feed a variety of food: frozen bloodworms, daphnia, New Life Spectrum flakes &
granules, algae wafers, etc. As it's overstocked, I do a PWC twice weekly, 30%
one time and 50% with gravel vac another time.
<Do you store the new water ahead of use; treat it somehow?>
The tank is heavily planted including Anubias nana on driftwood,
<The driftwood may be a factor>
Java moss & ferns on a sandstone chunk, green tiger lotus and fast growers water
wisteria and hornwort.
PH is stable at 7.4. It's pretty consistently 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrites and
0 Nitrates (am considering supplementing nitrates for the plants).
<Strange that there is zero NO3 here>I
fertilise with Flourish, Potassium and Excel, using Prime for water
conditioning.
<Ahh; I see. All very good so far>
When I put the neons in 2 weeks ago, I noticed one had a protruding jaw/mouth
and thought it was a birth defect. That's since developed into what looks like a
white blister on its mouth, and another neon has developed a white smear on its
tail fin. All the neons have a strong appetite and are schooling together.
I turned up the heater, thinking it was Ich, then read more about Columnaris and
gradually took the temp lower to 76. Added a bit of salt just in case.
Today I put all the neons a bath for an hour with a bit of salt, Kordon Fish
Protector and Blue Planet Multi Cure - Methylene Blue/Malachite
Green/Acriflavine, in a bucket with a heater and an airstone. I don't want to
put the Multi Cure in the tank because of the plants, and I don't want to kill
the beneficial bacteria.
<You are wise here>
I'm considering ordering an antibiotic like Kanaplex online as you can't get
them in Australia. What do you think the neons have, and what is your
recommended course of treatment (aside from removing most of the fish and/or
getting a bigger tank)? No other fish aside from the neons are affected, but I'm
not sure if that means it's neon tetra disease.
<I cannot state with any acceptable level of confidence what the twisted mouth
(genetic I'd guess as well) or whitened caudal indicate here. I would pull the
driftwood as a general precaution; and NOT further expose these fishes to the
Malachite or salt/s (of no use, in fact toxic). Am asking Neale Monks here to
further respond. Bob Fenner>
Thanks for your help!
- Christina
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Neon Tetras - not sure what they've got...
9/2/15
<<Following on from Bob F's comments. Genetics is a factor. Deformities are
common; not necessary lethal, and in the case of stubby jaws, so long as the
fish can feed, no harm seems to come from it. But here's the issue with Neons.
They're farmed to a price not to a quality, and they're tanked up with
antibiotics before they're sent out to retailers. Their intrinsic
resilience has been lost, bacterial and protozoan infections are ubiquitous, and
their track record in many countries now is shockingly poor. On top of this, as
a hobby we're guilty of keeping them badly. Neons dislike hard water and high
temperatures. Really, 22 C/72 F is about optimal for them, and those kept in
"normal" 25 C/77 F are probably heat stressed, aggravating any other issues. Add
to this the high pH and hardness levels they're commonly exposed to, and we're
already keeping them in stressful conditions even without disease. So that means
by the time they do get sick, they're not in the right conditions they'd need
for a speedy recovery. I wouldn't touch Neons with a 10-foot bargepole these
days, but if I had no choice, I'd be doing the following:
(1) Only buy them from a batch with ZERO sick fish or deformities.
(2) Only buy fairly big specimens, not the tiny tiddlers that have much less
resilience.
(3) Quarantine them for as long as practical.
(4) Maintain them in a cool, shady, soft water aquarium. 22-24 C; no overhead
lighting at all; pH 6-7; 1-10 degrees dH.
(5) Run a thorough course of antibiotics through them, ideally something for
both gram-positive and gram-negative. You can't do much/anything about
Pleistophora (Neon Tetra Disease) but half supposed NTD outbreaks are said to be
bacterial, hence False Neon Tetra Disease, and you can do something about
bacterial infections. The old Maracyn 1 plus Maracyn 2 combo is probably the
most cost effective way to do this, but a vet can help you out here as well.
Cheers, Neale.>>
Re: Neon Tetras - not sure what they've got...
9/2/15
Thanks so much Bob and Neale! In Australia-speak, "you guys are legends!"
<Ahh>
The no NO3 is curious - I bought another API test kit
<Aq. Pharm.... I'd try another brand/maker>
because my first one was faulty, consistently zero after thwacking bottle 2 as
violently as possible against everything in sight. With the new kit, I had the
lowest reading a few times, but since I started twice weekly water changes, it's
been showing up zero. Maybe I'm overdosing on Prime, or the hornwort and water
wisteria are soaking up all the ammonia?
<Perhaps>
Clearly I did everything wrong with the neons, starting with an impulse buy at
my LFS after taking a bunch of platy fry back. I should have done some research
beforehand and inspected the fish before buying.
<Glad to find you are aware>
I've been fish-keeping for less than a year and bought a bunch of books, but
still have a lot to learn (attaching a photo of said books - all great bed time
reading).
<Ah yes>
Other things I did wrong: the neons are tiddlers, we don't have a quarantine
tank, the temp has been too high, and the light is probably too strong. The
Innovative Marine light is stock LED which my LFS said was "medium strength".
What I can do is get some more floating plants aside from the hornwort to filter
the light. I've now set the timer to 4 hours on, 4 hours off, 4 hours on to
break it up a bit. If I take the neons back to my LFS, they'll get eaten as
they'll go in the large "orphan" tank with various sized, quite large and
sometimes aggressive fish. My daughter loves the neons and I do want to try and
create a good environment for both them and the community somehow. I might try
putting Indian Almond leaves in the tank to bring the pH down a bit, being
mindful the Platy prefers harder water too. I'll start testing pH, dH and kH
more frequently. Attaching a photo of the whole tank for reference.
<Very nice>
Re: quarantine, I did do a dose of PraziPro in the tank and then over a few days
sometime later, food soaked in Levamisole, but that obviously doesn't attack
anything bacterial or fungal. I'll check in with a local vet to source Maracyn 1
and 2, and if that doesn't work there's always online ordering :)
Quick question: does Maracyn disrupt the beneficial bacteria, if so would they
still be effective dosed in a bath, and at what duration and frequency?
<Maracyn is Erythromycin; it usually does not disrupt nitrification>
Thanks again and cheers, Christina
<Welcome. BobF>
Re: Neon Tetras - not sure what they've got...
9/3/15
Thanks so much Bob and Neale! In Australia-speak, "you guys are legends!"
<You're welcome.>
The no NO3 is curious - I bought another API test kit because my first one was
faulty, consistently zero after thwacking bottle 2 as violently as possible
against everything in sight. With the new kit, I had the lowest reading a few
times, but since I started twice weekly water changes, it's been showing up
zero. Maybe I'm overdosing on Prime, or the hornwort and
water wisteria are soaking up all the ammonia?
<Floating plants, if growing rapidly, will absorb ammonia and other dissolved
wastes.>
Clearly I did everything wrong with the neons, starting with an impulse buy at
my LFS after taking a bunch of platy fry back. I should have done some research
beforehand and inspected the fish before buying. I've been fish-keeping for less
than a year and bought a bunch of books, but still have a lot to learn
(attaching a photo of said books - all great bed time reading).
<Some good books there. The Andrews et. al. book on fish health is a classic
(first published in the mid 80s) but not substantially updated since then, so in
one or two areas is a little dated. But otherwise excellent. The Amano books are
inspirational, but do bear in mind Amano-style tanks tend to be short-term
projects built for a photo; hardly any operate for more than a year or two.
Also, they're not psychologically ideal for many fish. The reason the tetras in
the Nature Aquarium photos are schooling together is because they're scared! So
again, definitely inspirational, but not necessarily useful for the average
community tank.>
Other things I did wrong: the neons are tiddlers, we don't have a quarantine
tank, the temp has been too high, and the light is probably too strong. The
Innovative Marine light is stock LED which my LFS said was "medium strength".
What I can do is get some more floating plants aside from the hornwort to filter
the light.
<This approach can work. Neons don't like bright light from above, but shade
under floating plants suits them fine.>
I've now set the timer to 4 hours on, 4 hours off, 4 hours on to break it up a
bit.
<You might find this "siesta" between morning and afternoon lighting periods
doesn't work for your plants. I find 5-6 hours on, 1-2 hours off, then 5-6 hours
on again works fine for the plants, fish and also keeps algae in check.>
If I take the neons back to my LFS, they'll get eaten as they'll go in the large
"orphan" tank with various sized, quite large and sometimes aggressive fish. My
daughter loves the neons and I do want to try and create a good environment for
both them and the community somehow. I might try putting Indian Almond leaves in
the tank to bring the pH down a bit, being mindful the Platy prefers harder
water too. I'll start testing pH, dH and kH more frequently. Attaching a photo
of the whole tank for reference.
<Platies and Neons aren't really compatible in terms of water chemistry. Do
understand the Indian Almond leaves are an expensive way to acidity water and
they aren't all that effective. Indian Almond leaves is just a newer, more
expensive and trendy alternative to using peat, which was equally flawed. In any
case, if you had a hardness of 10-12 degrees dH, and a pH of 7-7.5, you might
just about succeed with Neons and Platies in the same tank. For sure Neons can
live in harder water, or at least the old fashioned hardy ones did, but modern
Neons are so hopeless I'd not recommend it. Platies get sick very quickly in
soft and/or acidic conditions, so don't bother. Neutral, medium hard water is
the happy medium that might work for both species.>
Re: quarantine, I did do a dose of PraziPro in the tank and then over a few days
sometime later, food soaked in Levamisole, but that obviously doesn't attack
anything bacterial or fungal. I'll check in with a local vet to source Maracyn 1
and 2, and if that doesn't work there's always online ordering :)
<Indeed. In the UK you can't buy Maracyn or any other antibiotic without a
prescription (some people do sell aquarium antibiotics on eBay, but not only is
that illegal, you have absolutely no idea whether you're getting antibiotics or
fakes).>
Quick question: does Maracyn disrupt the beneficial bacteria, if so would they
still be effective dosed in a bath, and at what duration and frequency?
<Used as instructed on the package it doesn't normally affect the filter.
But it's a good idea to grab some filter media or even a fair clump of floating
plants, which carry a lot of filter bacteria, stick in a bucket with some
aquarium water, and place somewhere suitable for a few days while medicating.
That way, if something does go wrong, you can at least jump start the cycling
process and avoid New Tank Syndrome.>
Thanks again and cheers, Christina
<Cheers, Neale.>
|
|
Re: Neon Tetras - not sure what they've got...
9/4/15
Thanks Neale and Bob.
<Welcome Chris>
Sorry about the delay replying - I'm job hunting and was meeting with
recruiters.
<Ah, "first things first">
I'll ring around my local vets to see who can supply fish antibiotics.
I've changed the light timing and just tested the water after two days:
Ammonia & Nitrite 0. Actually showed up 10 N03 on my second test after
vigorously shaking the 2nd bottle and the test tube, which is good. pH is 7.4,
gH 7 and kH 6.
<Ok... as Neale alluded to, Neons are generations aquacultured... are much more
tolerant of varying aquarium conditions, but also have genetic troubles>
When I got home last night I was worried to see the Neons looking suspiciously
asymmetrically lumpy along their bellies, but that's gone today and I think they
may just have been eating too many peas which I left for them during the day.
<Maybe>
I've been worried one Black Phantom Tetra now has a gaping red gill on one side
and is hiding away under plants in a corner. As it's on one side only and
they're all doing quite vigorous body bumps during spawning season, I think it
may just be an accidental collision with the sandstone rock in the tank. I'm
going to wrap more java moss around the rock to cushion the
edges. I'll give her a few days to heal, otherwise will send a picture for your
comment. Haven't had to euthanise a fish yet so I'm hoping I don't have to start
with this one, or any/all of the neons.
Many thanks, Christina
<As many welcomes. BobF>
|
Neon tetra disease? 8/10/15
Hello, again!
Thanks for everything the other day!
<Welcome>
I guess a follow up on our previous conversation would be good.
I now have the African cichlids living in the fridge case i told you earlier,
arranged some rocks and sand and two small powerheads making water turbulence,
Ph is 7.7 and water quality tests are good so far.
<Good>
I didn't get the Acara; clerk at the lfs (the one i told you has severe issues)
knows me and knows what i have in my tanks and when i told him what i wanted the
Acara for told me that it would be too risky, as it would probably bully the
glass catfish and stress everyone while looking for a territory. Just then when
evaluating i noticed they had ... boesemanni rainbows! They had just arrived
yesterday so i got 5 of them; A safer option i guess.
<Yes>
They are now being quarantined in a 10 gal, they are very small and have not
developed their brightest colors (that or they are heavily stressed, cant tell).
I also noticed a sale on neon, cardinal and black neon tetras. There were
actually just 5 neons, 3 cardinals and 2 black neons, and i actually have seen
these guys sit in their tanks for about 3 weeks without anyone taking them. I
got all of them.
Since my temperature range is in the meeting points of the upper for neons and
lower for cardinals i guessed that maybe i could keep them together, am i right?
<Yes; with a "middling" range of temperature... the mid to upper seventies F.>
now, i searched for black neons but haven't found much.
these guys are all in my second quarantine (i have a few empty small tanks i got
very cheaply just in case haha).
This quarantine, however, has a few hardy plants i can remove whenever i need to
medicate (ferns, Anubias and hornwort). It is an 8 gallon with ph 7.1, ammonia,
nitrite and nitrate are 0,0,5, wasn't running with a filter but i took an extra
sponge from the catfish tank and an air pump thing into an air diffuser.
Its been a day and all the fish seemed fine, however, noticed today that the
cardinals aren't eating, and whats more one of the neons is hiding in an upper
corner, hidden by hornwort and just blankly staring at the glass without eating
or moving much. The rest of the neons, black neons and cardinals are hanging
together and feeding well (except for the cardinals, which don't show interest
in food).
First thing that comes to mind is neon tetra diseases for the neon, but these
guys have been at the lfs for about 3 weeks, shouldn't he have died already if
he does have NTD?
<Likely the "odd behavior" is simply from being moved to a new setting>
shouldn't the other fish be infected and displaying symptoms as well? Im a bit
puzzled here, all the fish seem well fed and display normal coloration. Also
thought about stress but im very paranoid about diseases.
I sincerely hope you can help me, thank you very much in advance for your time!
Rob
<I'd "do nothing" at this point. Bob Fenner>
Sick Tetras? 8/27/13
Hi guys,
<Chelsea,>
Starting out with details and parameters: I have a 30 gallon tank
that I set up almost three months ago. A month and a half a go, I
got 3 Neon Tetras and a Ghost Shrimp. Two of the Tetras died very
shortly, so I waited two weeks, checking parameters, and then got two
more Tetras. They have been fine until about four days ago.
<I see. Well, the quality of most farmed Neons is not good, and "Neon
Tetra Disease" (or diseases plural, there's some debate on this) can be
particularly difficult to deal with. Once sick from this disease, Neons
are highly contagious but difficult (usually impossible) to treat. That
said, not all Neons die from Neon Tetra Disease, so be open minded, and
do all the usual things you do when fish get sick, in case there's
another reason they're ailing.>
My Nitrates and Nitrites are at 0, but my ammonia is at .25ppm. My tap
water reads for over 1ppm straight out of the tap, so I have been using
Prime and I get false readings for my ammonia concentrates.
<Possibly, but be open minded and review filter capacity, feeding,
stocking, etc.>
I did a 25% water change two days ago, and before that, the ammonia read
at 0ppm.
<Good.>
I am having trouble identifying a disease that my Tetras seem to have.
It started out with one Tetra hiding instead of schooling with the
others.
<Is what Neons do when stressed, though is often associated with "Neon
Tetra Disease". Such fish should be promptly removed, and to be honest,
euthanised (I recommend the Clove Oil method as cheap, easy and humane).
You see, Neon Tetra Disease is extremely contagious, and medicating
isn't possible. If you suspect there may be another explanation, you
could isolate the Neon in a hospital tank and treat for Whitespot,
Finrot or whatever, but unless you're 100% sure that your fish doesn't
have Neon Tetra Disease, I'd always medicate in a hospital tank, not in
the display tank.>
When he came out of hiding to eat, I noticed a white spot on his lip.
I got some Jungle "Ick Guard" and have been using it per the directions,
as well as adding aquarium salt to my tank. Over the next day or
so, the sick fish got worse and the two others began to come down with
the same symptoms. I have been using the Ick Guard for 4 days now,
and the fish are
not getting better.
<Oh dear.>
Today, I noticed that my Ghost Shrimp had white spots on him, as well
(he disappeared for 3 days and I almost thought he was dead). I
Googled to see if invertebrates can get fish parasites, and the general
consensus was that they cannot.
<Correct, but many fish medications are lethal to shrimps, particularly
anti-Whitespot and similar medications that contain either copper or
formalin. Always remove shrimps when medicating, or else remove the sick
fish to a hospital tank.>
(Btw, he molted about a week ago, and one site said spots could be a
sign of molting - would he do it again so quickly?)
<May well do.>
Between the shrimp getting spots and my fish getting worse instead of
better, could the disease not actually be Ich?
<The photos are too blurry to be sure, but the fish look to me like they
might have either Finrot or Whitespot/Ick, it's just not clear to me.
Whitespot looks like the fish fins and body have had salt grains stuck
to them. It's very distinctive. Finrot erodes the fins usually from
their edges inwards, and the fins often go cloudy, sometimes pinkish, as
the fin membranes die. Again, quite easy to identify. It's possible for
a fish to have both, by the way, and they're both common problems in
newish tanks
when un-quarantined fish have been recently added and/or existing fish
exposed to poor water quality.>
Is there another disease that they might have, or is it just a
coincidence that the shrimp also has white spots?
<The latter; shrimps can't get Whitespot. For sure they might suffer in
some way from poor water quality, but Finrot as such isn't going to
happen.
Shrimps usually just die when stressed.>
I have included pictures, but they aren't terribly great because
everyone in the aquarium moves so fast.
<Quite so. Try using a net to gently hold a fish against the glass. Use
a tripod (or a friend with steady hands) to hold the camera.>
In the pictures, I have tried to point out spots where you might be able
to see the white spots. Thanks in advance for any help, you guys are an
amazing source of knowledge, and I have learned so much from your site.
Chelsea
<Hope this helps, Neale.>
|
|
Disease help (pictures attached) 11/19/12
Hello
<Jules>
I don't know if you are able to help, I have attached a few pictures of
my neon tetra's. In this 48l tank are 4 x neon tetra, 3 x male guppies,
1 x dwarf Pleco, several assassin snails and 100's of problem
snail squatters!
<Heee!>
I have a constant battle with Nitrate (my tap water has high Nitrate)
<How high?>
and the pH is always low at 5 - 5.5
<Yikes; too low>
and I add pH up by API.
<I hope it's dissolved in the water ahead of use, not added directly to
the aquarium. I would be using baking soda/sodium bicarbonate; pre-mixed
and stored for a week ahead of use>
I am strict with weekly 20 - 30% water changes.
<Good>
Any help is very much appreciated.
Thank you
Julie-Ann
<Your pix are too blurry, poorly-resolved to tell much... Is this
Pleistophora, Sporozoan, a Mycobacterial issue, simple environmental
manifestation?
Please read here re:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/NeonTetDis.htm
And write back w/ your further observations, concerns, questions. Bob
Fenner>
|
cropped and enhanced. |
Neon tetra sickness that takes months to develop?? -
11/08/2012
I have a 37 gallon FW tank, planted and with driftwood. It is stocked
with Bleeding Heart Tetras, a Bristlenose, a pair of Pearl Gouramis,
Pygmy Corys, and 6 Neon Tetras. The tank has been running since February
2011 when I moved up from a 10 gallon that I started two years
previously.
<Sounds very nice.>
In February 2012 I bought 8 more Neons. They went into a QT thankfully.
(Seeded with an extra sponge I always keep in the main tank HOB).
<Very good.>
After one week in the QT some were showing signs of what I thought might
be fin rot. Tips of tails missing, with white edges, the same on the
dorsal fin of one. I treated the tank with Tetra fungus tabs.
After two weeks in QT all eight had white edges on some of the fins. I
completed the fungus treatment.
<Fin rot is typically caused by either poor water quality or bacterial
infection, not fungus....>
After five weeks in QT three had developed what looked like a small
growth on the bottom lip. Not fuzzy, not white, more a light grey. One
fish seemed to be losing a little colour just below the dorsal fin on
one side. I did some research and thought it could be Columnaris. Up to
this point the fish were all acting normally, feeding, active. A few
days later a couple seemed to be lethargic. I got some BiFuran+ and went
through a treatment over the next week. I lost two fish on the third
day, two on the fourth. The remaining three seemed to be doing OK, other
than the slightly ragged fins and the small growth on the lower lip of
one.
<Cysts, fin rot, loss of color.... This is sounding potentially like
"Neon Tetra Disease", a contagious and incurable Sporozoan complaint
which affects, most notably, neon tetras (among other things)....>
They didn’t get any worse over the next few weeks, other than the growth
getting a little bigger. I came across Triple Sulpha, and tried two
complete treatments of that. A week after the second treatment I noticed
one looking a little listless. It died overnight. The other two looked
OK, other than the growth that looked like a blister on the lip. A week
later one died.
<Though I might expect them to die more quickly, I would still be
suspecting Neon Tetra Disease / NTD....>
A month later there was still one lone survivor, looking fine. I bought
three more (should have given up on Neons by then) thinking that if they
were all OK in a month I`d add them to the main tank. Two weeks later
"Survivor" didn't live up to its name. Became ragged, seemed to develop
a small pale area, went downhill over 2 days.
<Yeah, I'm still thinking the same.>
I euthanised it.
<Best possible option, if it is in fact NTD.... I would have done this,
as well.>
One week after that one of the three new fish started to develop the now
familiar growth on the lower lip.
<Yikes! Though not exactly surprising.>
Three months later, after trying malachite green baths for a few weeks
too, I euthanised the three. The growth got much bigger and one of the
others developed one too. The third just became ragged. The QT was in
use for a long time...
<Hey, that's what it's there for. And thank goodness! Let's hope EVERY
SINGLE READER OUT THERE (yes, you!) is seeing this and understanding the
complete and utter NECESSITY that is a quarantine tank!>
Two months later I decided to try again. Why, I don`t know...
<It's reasonable, I think.>
QT was had been broken down and cleaned (left running for a couple of
days with a beach solution – made sure of that. Nets etc. soaked in the
tank at the time).
<Very good.>
I bought 7 Neons. One developed a small growth during the second week.
Euthanised. It was the same blister-looking growth. Two others have
small signs of a growth of some kind – not filamentous, not a blister.
Small, at the side of the mouth, kind of like an extension of the lip.
Two have a slightly distorted profile – not a lump, but not a smooth
curve when looking at the belly. They are all acting normally. No damage
to fins, no colour fading.
<Curved spines are another symptom of NTD, and cysts growing internally
might cause the fish to be "misshapen", as well.>
I don`t know what to do with them now. It has bee 5 weeks with this
bunch. I can`t put them in the main tank, but don`t want to euthanise
them unless they definitely sick.
<To be safe, I would never move these fish to the main tank. If the shop
you got them from has a return policy, you might consider returning them
- with an honest explanation why, of course.>
Any suggestions or comments would be welcome. I have found a lot of
examples in various forums and other sites of people with similar
experiences with Neons, and a lot of photos, even videos, of the lower
lip mouth growth. Looks like a blister, as I mentioned. Grows slowly,
and fish can act fine for months. If you think this is Columnaris, or
have other ideas of what it is and what I could do...
<I do suspect this not-uncommon Sporozoan, or possibly some other
similar causative. As for what to do? I would return the existing fish
in the quarantine tank to the shop, bleach/sterilize again, and wait
until you can find a different source for Neons before trying them
again. See if your shop will let you know where the ones you'd purchased
came from; if they were farm-raised and where, or if they were wild....
And try to get them from an entirely different source/origin next time.>
Cheers,
Steve
<I'm sorry you've had to deal with this, Steve, but I am glad - very,
very glad - that you chose to employ the use of a quarantine system. I
do hope that someone out there will learn from this. Thank you for
sharing; I am sorry I don't have better news or suggestions. Oh, the
obvious suggestion: DO NOT cross-contaminate to your main tank!! I think
you're probably well aware and cautious of this already. Best wishes to
you and your fish, -Sabrina>
Neon tetra disease? 7/1/12
Hi,
I have a sick fish - I believe he has dropsy because he is pine-coning
but I am worried about a weird lump on him as well. I see another
tetra or to in the tank with the lump and I was hoping I could get a
more experienced opinion on the fish since I just found out about the
Neon Tetra disease today. I have isolated the pineconing fish, but
I am just hoping I don't lose the entire school. I have attached
some pictures of the fish - do you think the lump is from Neon Tetra
disease?
<No.>
The lump is underneath his gills in front of his front-most fins.
Thanks,
Chelsea
<Don't think this is Pleistophora, but could be either worms or plain
vanilla Dropsy. If this was me, I'd at least isolate this fish but more
than likely euthanise it, and hope that the other Neons weren't
infected.
http://wetwebmedia.com/euthanasia.htm
Do then review the basic requirements for Neon Tetras: good water
quality, soft water (2-12 degrees dH), an acidic pH (6-7.5), and a low
to middling temperature (22-25 C). The quality of farmed Neons is
mediocre, at best, and if you don't have soft water, things become even
more difficult, so don't be too disheartened if you can't keep Neons
alive. Cheers, Neale.>
|
|
Re: Microgeophagus Altispinosa/injured neon tetra,
chatting 5/3/11
Afternoon Neale, happy Tuesday.
<Hello Susie,>
Ok, understood re breeding trap etc, thank you!
<Cool.>
The remaining Corydoras seem fit enough.....I'm thinking that
I'll move the 4 catfish and the Ancistrus, and a few Neons,
out into the 15 gallon tank, and leave the M. altispinosa in the
20 gallon with the rest of the Neons and the pygmy barbs, in the
hope that one day something akin to pairing off and breeding will
occur.
<Sounds worth trying out.>
May have to add a few more specimens to get a pair though. If I
have any success, and I manage to grow a few fry to a quarter
inch in with the parents in the 20 gal, where can they go after
that.....will the 15 gal with the few catfish in be large enough
to grow them to a size suitable for the LFS? Assuming I'll
only grow or succeed with 10-15 at a time?
<Yes, should be fine. But keep up with water changes! Juvenile
fish are very sensitive to "old" water (presumably
nitrate levels).>
One slightly more urgent matter, I came home to a very peculiar
sight this afternoon.....would you be so kind as to take a look
at look at the attached? It's difficult to get a clear
picture but does this look like an injury of some sort?
<Hmm no, I think not; perhaps a prolapse of some sort?>
It's a creamy coloured lump which appears to be protruding
from around the vent. It's a solid mass, but doesn't look
"thready", like I would expect a disembowelment, or
worms, to look like. The fish is schooling with the others and
doesn't appear distressed at all? Maybe it's a she and
these are trapped eggs?? Any ideas or solutions....whatever it
is, it must be very uncomfortable.....
<Not much you can do directly, though Epsom salt, at 1
tablespoon per 5 gallons, can help. Feeding live daphnia and live
brine shrimps can also have a laxative effect.>
As if that wasn't bad enough, I spent a large part of the
Bank Holiday setting up a second hand 15 gallon tank which I
collected on Friday. After hours of careful cleaning, washing of
sand, gathering of equipment, filling of tank to check for leaks
etc etc etc, I finally filled it and seeded the filter last
night, adding a pinch of food for ammonia. I came back this
afternoon to do the first of my chemical checks......and now,
full of substrate and driftwood, it leaks. Curses. Back to square
one and a few quid poorer
<Oh dear.>
Thanks for help re neon and advice on breeding the rams!!
Suze
<Cheers, Neale.>
|
|
Re: Microgeophagus Altispinosa/injured neon
tetra 5/4/11
Thanks Neale.....having feverishly researched where to buy Epsom
salts, the "prolapse" grew increasingly fluffy during
the evening and eventually broke away. The neon is now wearing a
relieved expression. :o) That will teach him to stuff his face
with brine shrimp too quickly.
<Indeed. But all's well that ends well.>
After the irritating failure of the leaky 15 gal, I had a right
result last night.....a friend wants rid of her perfectly
functional but neglected 20 gal tank, fishes and all. 2 Striata
loaches I'll re-home, 2 Endler guppies I guess I can keep
somewhere, 11 Neons can probably stay, and there are also two
completely mystery fish.
Fancy a stab at identifying them from a description, before I can
get a pic?
They are about an inch and a half long, with the long slender
body shape more of a characin than a barb, although could fit
either family....didn't notice any barbels, they weren't
bottom feeders but did stay in the lower third of the tank, like
cichlids. They're a deep golden orange, with vertical black
stripes graduating along their backs - mainly the saddle area,
the stripes dont extend to the head or tail, and don't go as
low as the pectoral fins. They look like very very small, stripey
orange sharks, with quite a long dorsal fin. They stick together
and dont move around much.
<Hmm curious; not obvious at all what they might be.>
They must be hardy as they've survived many 75% water changes
with no treatment of the replacement water, with long periods of
no water changes in between.
I've researched every species I can think of and can't
find them - my friend doesnt know what they are, although when
she bought them the LFS said they were quite rare.
Any thoughts? Should be able to get a picture when I collect
them, but you know me, always impatient for info. Especially as
they may not be suitable to keep!
Thanks!
Susie
<Do need photo. Cheers, Neale.>
|
Tetra with white mouth
2/5/11
Dear Crew
Just to update you all, sadly, my panda platy died last night from what
we are sure was fish TB (mycobacterium). Despite not eating, she lasted
a good two weeks on twice daily water changes although her eyesight
must have failed her and her tail became covered in fungus in the last
two days - very sad.
I've got two neon tetras now waiting some sort of help. They have
had this white patch on their mouths - curiously, it's been
developing really slowly over the past two months and they appear to be
normal/eat normally. I've now put them in the hospital tank with
their tank water, air and heating.
I've not added any treatment at this stage as I wanted to check
what I should use if any. I'm thinking that it is probably
Columnaris as I found a few white spots on another tetra a few weeks
back when we had a small nitrite spike for a couple of days and which I
cleared up with a broad spectrum antibiotic. However, I've
attempted to treat this tetra before and its white patch on its mouth
didn't clear up. Is it worth treating this one again with an
antibiotic or a die-based solution for the Gram-negative bacteria?
Many thanks for you excellent help as ever.
regards
Patrick
<Yes, I agree, Columnaris is probable. But with Neons, this does
seem quite a common malaise, perhaps caused by fighting or bumping into
solid objects.
Would treat with something like eSHa 2000 that treats Finrot,
Columnaris and fungus all at the same time, and beyond that, hope for
the best. As ever with Neons, ensure the water isn't too hard and
the temperature isn't too high -- these are surely common mistakes
that shorten their lifespans in captivity. Cheers,
Neale.>
Neon Tetra
Fungus? 02/05/11
Hi Crew Again
Hope you had your morning coffee.
I am keeping individual emails per question to make things easier
I hope.
I have 7 neon tetras and the one in the picture has had a white
growth on his (male I think) lip for a couple of months now. When
I first noticed it I moved him to a hospital tanks and treat with
JBL Fungol
As he has not got worse I can only assume that what ever it was
has been treated.
This morning I noticed that one of the females has developed a
white spot on her left side (see pic) I think it may be
fungal.
Not sure what to treat her with - I have an array of
medication.
Either do a Salt dip.
or JBL Ektol Fluid, JBL Ektol Crystal as well as Fungol2, Punktol
I have some Interpet anti bacterial fluid as well.
Many thanks.
<This would appear to be Mouth Fungus, which, despite its
name, is a bacterial infection, sometimes called Columnaris (the
bacteria species is called Flavobacterium columnare, or in older
books, Flexibacter columnaris, hence the name). It isn't
difficult to treat when caught early, and an anti-Finrot
medications will usually work well. Fungus proper can look
similar, but the threads are usually longer and fluffier. Some
medications will treat both; I particularly recommend eSHa 2000
because of this, and in the UK and parts of Europe this
medication is widely sold an inexpensive. Do remember to remove
carbon from the filter, if used, while medicating. Mouth Fungus
may be caused by water quality issues, or it may be a result of
fighting or some other type of physical damage to the mouth.
Review and act accordingly.
Cheers, Neale.>
|
|
Re: Neon Tetra
Fungus? 02/05/11
Hi Neale
Many thanks for your reply.
<Glad to help.>
Do you think the female with the white spot just under the blue
line is the same?
<Probably not. Could be Whitespot, but for now, the Columnaris
is the priority, though the standard salt/heat method against
Whitespot could be used safely and without causing stress to your
Neons.>
We treated the male with mouth rot about 2 months ago - the white
on his mouth is still there but he as not got any worse, should
what looks like rot have gone away by now?
<Difficult to say. Bacterial infections may come and go
depending on the strength of the immune system, which is why they
become killers in tanks with underlying problems. The bacteria
responsible are present in all tanks, all the time. For what
it's worth, I don't recommend Neons unless you happen to
have soft water and you also have the option of keeping them
relatively cool; Neons don't do well in hard water and they
don't do well kept above 25 C/77 F. Cheers,
Neale.>
|
Tetra Neons... keeping/killing
1/24/11
Hi, I just got 5 Neons about 4 days ago, and unfortunately one of them
has already died. They are in a 10 gallon tank with a pH of about 6.5
and nitrate and nitrite readings are low as well.
<Meaning what? Is this aquarium brand new? A new tank *will* kill
Neons. It needs to be cycled for 3-4 weeks at least before adding the
Neons. By cycling, we mean presenting a source of ammonia, such as
pinches of fish food every couple of days, and then doing the usual 25%
water changes every week. If the tank is new, ammonia will be high for
the first couple of weeks, nitrite high for about weeks 2 to 4, and
only after the fourth week will ammonia and nitrite both be close to
(or at) zero, and that's when nitrate starts going up. That's
also the point when you can start adding fish. There's no
"low" level of nitrite (with an "I"). Any nitrite
level above 0 is potentially dangerous, and above 0.5 mg/l there's
a good chance of the fish dying quickly.>
The tank is heated to about 79-80 degrees F.
<Too warm for Neons.>
I am concerned that the water may be too hard for them. When I tested
the GH it was 180ppm. Is the hardness hurting the fish?
<Can do, long term. But Neons won't die within days because your
water is moderately hard. In fact they may well do just fine, provided
everything else in your tank is good.>
If so, what can I do to lower it?
Brittney.
<Cheers, Neale.>
Neon tetra turning white, but acting otherwise normal,
likely NTD 09/29/10
Good morning,
<Hello Melanie,>
I need some advice on my poor neon tetra.
<Fire away!>
Here's the aquarium history:
20 gal. planted tank with bog wood, fully cycled since February
2010.
<Sounds good.>
Last tested last night using a Jungle test strip:
Nitrate - about 10 ppm (mg/L) (the colour was pinkish between
0-20 and within the 'safe' zone)
Nitrite - 0
GH - Soft, about 75 ppm
Chlorine - 0
KH - in the ideal range 120-180 ppm
pH - about 7.2
The last water change was about a week ago.
<All sounds ideal.>
Note: the bogwood had black fuzzy material growing on it, so I
removed it, scrubbed it, then boiled it in a 10% vinegar
solution. Then I scrubbed it again and let it soak in plain water
for several days before returning it to the aquarium last
Saturday.
<The black stuff is red algae, and scrubbing it won't make
much difference either way. Red algae tends to grow in conditions
where there is medium to bright lighting but not enough
fast-growing plants. Stick a clump of Floating Indian Fern in the
tank, and you should find algae becomes much less of an
issue.>
Tank inhabitants: 1 rubber lip Pleco, 1 male Betta (he's
peaceful), 7 neon tetras, 2 assassin snails.
<All sounds fine, my one comment being that Bettas prefer
warmer water to Neons. Your Neons, Rubber Plec, and to some
degree the snails will do best kept fairly cool, 22-24 C/72-75 F
being ideal. Although not the reason your Neon is sick, this is a
common reason why Neons generally have relatively short lifespans
in many tanks, a couple of years instead of 4-5 years.>
The Neons are the latest addition, added back in July, and were
purchased from a reliable LFS (not PetSmart)
<Unfortunately with Neons, they mostly come from the same fish
farms, no matter where sold.>
The fish are fed once daily one of the following: Topfin Betta
food, Bettabites, Topfin tropical flakes, Topfin freeze dried
blood worms, and Pleco algae wafers. I usually rotate through
these. The only exception was back in early September, I gave the
fish a 3 day feeder block. I don't normally use the
blocks.
<Very wise; they tend to do no more harm than good. Your fish
can easily go two weeks without food.>
All fish have been eating well, with some of the fish being pigs
and eating too much from time to time.
<Sounds like they're doing well.>
Here's the problem:
One of the neon tetras has recently, over the last few days,
developed a discolouration from the dorsal fin, through the
colour bands and now to his stomach. I think it started at the
colour band and has migrated out, but I could be wrong. The white
patches are not fuzzy. The fish appears slightly lumpy - not
looking nice and sleek like his brethren. He simply doesn't
look right.
<My fear here is that he's tending towards Neon Tetra
Disease. This is one or two distinct diseases: some people think
it's usually a parasite called Pleistophora, while others
thing at least some cases are caused by a bacterial infection.
Either way, Neons rarely if ever recover, so euthanasia is
usually the best approach. Pleistophora at least is highly
infections, and many, MANY aquarists have found that once one
fish
succumbs, they lose another Neon every few weeks.>
However, the fish seems to be behaving normally - he is
schooling, eating, swimming well, reactive to a person watching
the tank. He is not restless or stressed looking, fins are not
clamped, not gasping for air, not glancing on
rocks/decorations.
<I see.>
I have Googled my brains out and now just have a list of possible
maybes that each require different treatments. Is it
Columnaris?
<This is usually distinctive, with growths around the mouth,
but to be honest with Neons being so small, detecting such
features is hard.>
Neon tetra disease?
<I fear as much. NTD is characterised by loss of colour, loss
of appetite, a tendency not to school with the other Neons,
shyness, bloating, and eventually death.>
Muscle death due to invisible parasites/flukes?? I just don't
know!
<Nor do I.>
I will take a picture and send it as soon as I get home
tonight.
<Very good, this will help. Do note our preference for a sharp
photo no larger than about 500 KB.>
My current plan is to buy a 2.5 gal kit with heater and filter to
use strictly as QT.
<That would be very wise. If handled this way, you might try
using a broad antibiotic and hope for the best. If you decide to
euthanise the fish, read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/euthanasia.htm
The clove oil method works extremely well with small fish, I
finding a litre of water with 30 drops of clove oil does the job
quickly and painlessly.>
I will take Mr. Yucky out tonight and await further
instructions... Please let me know if there is anything else I
can tell you.
Thank you!
Melanie
<Hope this helps. Cheers, Neale.>
|
|
Re:
Neon tetra turning white, but acting otherwise normal 09/29/10
Thank you very much Neal for the quick response.
<Always happy to help.>
I will make some changes to the tank as suggested (always looking
for an excuse to add more plants). I also keep the temp at 76 - at
the high end for tetras and the low end for Bettas. I guess
nobody's happy.... maybe I should move the Betta into his own
home.
<Would be wise.>
As for the sick neon: he was quarantined last night.
<OK; but if he's merely injured, this could cause stress,
and that in turn will make him less rather than more likely to get
better.>
I'd like to try medicating first as the fish doesn't appear
to be distressed as of this morning. However, I already own clove
oil and am prepared to euthanize if things don't improve.
<Cool.>
My next big worry is this: what should I do with my main tank now?
Is there anything I can do to ensure that the others don't come
down with the same illness?
<Prayer? In all honesty, Neon Tetra Disease is very difficult to
eliminate from a school of Neons, and it's more about ensuring
optimal conditions and removing infected fish than anything more
"medical".>
I plan to do a water change tonight (the usual 20-25%) and
replacing the carbon filter (long overdue).
<Do bear in mind my usual advice that carbon removes medications
and is also fairly useless in freshwater tanks. If you don't
have a specific reason to use carbon, the space in the filter would
be MUCH better used for more biological media.>
Thanks again,
Melanie
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Neon tetra turning white, but acting otherwise normal
09/29/10
Sorry, didn't see the response to this email until after sent
the last one... see what I mean? Weird!
<Indeed. The thing with Neons and many other transparent fish is
that damage to the skin or muscles makes them opaque. If the whole
fish is opaque, that usually means they're very ill, but if
it's just a region,
then you may be dealing with something more like a bruise.>
This fish hasn't been touched by a human since he was first
placed in the tank back in July. Last night was the first netting
for him in a while. I was suspecting he'd been hurt by
decorations (the bogwood is kind of pointy in spots) or by another
fish, but wasn't sure.
<Bogwood shouldn't be a problem as such; Neons come from
habitats with lots of things they might bump into, yet manage just
fine. On the other hand, fish can bump into things -- including the
glass and hood -- when alarmed, including when lights are turned
on, so a good tip is to turn the room lights on a few moments
before turning the tank lights on. The reverse is helpful at night
when you're switching off the aquarium lights.>
I just fear having all my fish wiped out due to ignorance on my
part.
<I wouldn't worry about that. For what it's worth, Neons
are one fish I've never managed to keep alive for long. The
quality of Neons in the trade is, unfortunately, rather
low.>
I'll keep him as is, isolated. I won't medicate for now. Is
there anything you'd recommend that I feed him for a faster
recovery - or just the same old flake?
<Pretty much.>
Is a product like stress coat of any use in a situation like
this?
<Won't do any harm, so if you have some, sure, use it. But I
wouldn't rush out to buy this or Melafix or whatever.>
Crossing fingers! Thanks again,
Melanie
<Glad to help. Good luck, Neale.> |
Hiding Neon Tetra 6/8/10
Hi
<Ave,>
I have a 25 gallon tank (fully planted and cycled). It currently homes
5 neon guppies (1 male, 4 female), 5 panda Platies (1 male, 4 females),
3 cherry shrimps and 9 neon tetra (new). You have previously informed
me that I was misguided by the aquatic shop about the tetras being ok
in a tank with a high water hardness (London water).
<Indeed.>
I've had the tetra about a week now and I have noticed that one now
hides in the corner at the bottom of the tank under the plantation and
rarely comes out. Is it normal?
<No.>
Sick?
<Perhaps. May be bullied, but hiding is also an early symptom of
Neon Tetra Disease, an epidemic among farmed Neons.>
Pregnant?
<Nope.>
All ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels are normal/safe.
<Unfortunately Neon Tetra Disease is very common, and it is also
highly contagious. There's no cure. Infected fish become shy, lose
their colour, don't feed, swell up, and eventually die. Possibly
infected fish should be isolated in a hospital tank and extreme
precautions taken to make sure water doesn't mix with the water in
the main tank, e.g., by sterilising nets and buckets. If the suspected
fish develops further symptoms of NTD, it should be euthanised; see WWM
for more on this.>
Many thanks, Patrick
<Cheers, Neale.>
Bariatric Neon Tetra
5/4/10
Hi
<Hello,>
Thanks for the great site I have found it very helpful for
both marine and freshwater tanks
<Good to know.>
I have searched your FAQs and other pages but cannot find
an exact match for the problem.
<Oh?>
We have a neon tetra that is significantly larger than
normal i.e. at least twice the size of the tankmates While
I have managed to find numerous references to bloated or
swollen stomachs the associated pictures and
descriptions speak to very distended stomachs and bulging -
this fish is large all over.
<Are you sure he's a Neon? Cardinal tetras are
similar but a bit bigger all around. Conversely,
Paracheirodon simulans, the so-called Green Neon, is
somewhat more slender than the Common Neon Tetra,
Paracheirodon innesi.
Also is he longer than the others, or just fatter? If the
abdomen is substantially bulkier, but the length of the
fish is the same as the others, that can imply a variety of
things, including dropsy, intestinal worms, even a female
filled with eggs and ready to spawn!>
My question is does dropsy sometimes produce this overall
swelling?
<Just the abdomen. By definition, oedema/dropsy is
retention of fluid within the body cavity. The head, back,
tail should all be the same as usual, since the muscles
aren't much affected.>
Could it be some sort of water exchange/retention issue?
What would you recommend as a treatment?
<For now, nothing. If the fish is happy and healthy, I
wouldn't worry too much.>
There is no signs of eyes popping or pine cone/fluffy
scales
<Good.>
The fish has slowly increased in size over 4-5 weeks. Diet
is a mixture of flake and blood worms. We have tried a pea
with no success (in case of constipation)
<Hmm...>
The fish has now stopped eating - or eats very
intermittently
<Again, the key thing is whether the fish is bigger
around the belly, or longer and the larger more generally,
from head to tail. If the belly alone is swollen, and this
fish is the same length as the other Neons, then you may
well be dealing with constipation, dropsy, Neon Tetra
Disease or something.>
Water parameters are good -nitrate less than 10. Ph is 6.9
and although a small tank it has good filtration, weekly
30% water changes with a mix of RO/dechlorinated water (to
maintain hardness) and the substrate is vacuumed weekly.
The remaining 6 tetras (the only other fish) are doing
fine
Kelly
<Hope this helps. Cheers, Neale.>
Bariatric Neon Tetra
5/4/10
Hi
<Hello,>
Thanks for the great site I have found it very helpful for
both marine and freshwater tanks
<Good to know.>
I have searched your FAQs and other pages but cannot find
an exact match for the problem.
<Oh?>
We have a neon tetra that is significantly larger than
normal i.e. at least twice the size of the tankmates While
I have managed to find numerous references to bloated or
swollen stomachs the associated pictures and
descriptions speak to very distended stomachs and bulging -
this fish is large all over.
<Are you sure he's a Neon? Cardinal tetras are
similar but a bit bigger all around. Conversely,
Paracheirodon simulans, the so-called Green Neon, is
somewhat more slender than the Common Neon Tetra,
Paracheirodon innesi.
Also is he longer than the others, or just fatter? If the
abdomen is substantially bulkier, but the length of the
fish is the same as the others, that can imply a variety of
things, including dropsy, intestinal worms, even a female
filled with eggs and ready to spawn!>
My question is does dropsy sometimes produce this overall
swelling?
<Just the abdomen. By definition, oedema/dropsy is
retention of fluid within the body cavity. The head, back,
tail should all be the same as usual, since the muscles
aren't much affected.>
Could it be some sort of water exchange/retention issue?
What would you recommend as a treatment?
<For now, nothing. If the fish is happy and healthy, I
wouldn't worry too much.>
There is no signs of eyes popping or pine cone/fluffy
scales
<Good.>
The fish has slowly increased in size over 4-5 weeks. Diet
is a mixture of flake and blood worms. We have tried a pea
with no success (in case of constipation)
<Hmm...>
The fish has now stopped eating - or eats very
intermittently
<Again, the key thing is whether the fish is bigger
around the belly, or longer and the larger more generally,
from head to tail. If the belly alone is swollen, and this
fish is the same length as the other Neons, then you may
well be dealing with constipation, dropsy, Neon Tetra
Disease or something.>
Water parameters are good -nitrate less than 10. Ph is 6.9
and although a small tank it has good filtration, weekly
30% water changes with a mix of RO/dechlorinated water (to
maintain hardness) and the substrate is vacuumed weekly.
The remaining 6 tetras (the only other fish) are doing
fine
Kelly
<Hope this helps. Cheers, Neale.>
|
|
|
Mystery Spot on Tetra 4/13/10
Hello! I've perhaps got a bit of a dilemma and am hoping you
can help me, depending on what this turns out to be. I apologize
if I include too much information, I just want to make sure I get
all the bases covered in case some obscure detail can give you a
fuller picture as to what could be going on.
<Fire away!>
About 10 days ago I got 9 green neon tetras and put them in an
already cycled tank for quarantine. They're all varied in
size from as little as 1.5 cm to about an inch. The first few
days I was mostly looking out for big signs of something wrong
(dead fish, listlessness, Ich, etc.) but they all seemed to be
schooling happily.
<Very good.>
By day 3 I noticed an Ich spot on the adipose fins of the two
largest Neons and started a treatment of Quick-Cure and raised
the temperature to 84 F.
<OK.>
However, this isn't the thing I'm worried about as the
Ich is clearing up fine. One of the smaller of my tetras has a
black blotch interrupting the neon stripe down its side.
<I see it.>
The spot is only on his right side. It doesn't seem to
protrude or bulge from its side at all, and isn't the same as
the small speckles I've seen in pictures of the "black
spot" disease.
<"Black Spot Disease" really isn't any one
thing, but a name given to a variety of similar complaints. These
range from true parasitic infections, as seems to be the case
with at least some marine and pond versions of the disease,
through to ammonia burns. Fortunately, in all cases Black Spot
Disease doesn't appear to be either contagious or deadly, at
least not under good aquarium or pond conditions, and usually
clears up by itself.>
The "spotted" fish doesn't shoal as much with the
other Neons, and tends to wander off alone to hide in the fake
plants. Other than the spot, all of his colors are vibrant. As
far as I can remember, the black spot was there at least since I
took him home, but I was watching out more for Ich than anything
else that I can't remember quite straight. I'm a research
junkie, and tried searching everywhere for what this could be but
came up mostly blank. I am entirely frightened that this could be
"Neon Tetra Disease", but I read that that usually
appeared as white patches, though I did see one person on some
obscure forum claim that black spots were a sure sign of the
disease. I am now worried sick and can't stand to lose any of
these little fish. What could this be?
<Doesn't look like Neon Tetra disease to me.>
I tried to take a photograph of the fish, but the camera was too
slow to capture them. Instead, I found a photo of a green neon
tetra online and "Photoshopped" on what the black
splotch looks like. It's not his photo, but it looks exactly
like my fish and his spot.
<Right. Well, assuming the fish is swimming and feeding
normally, I wouldn't worry unduly. Isolation will do more
harm than good. For now, observe and ensure optimal conditions.
If these are Green Neons, Paracheirodon simulans, that means a
temperature around 26-28 C and soft, slightly acidic water; in
short, similar to what Cardinal Tetras need. Note that common
Neons, Paracheirodon innesi, require cooler water, around 22-24
C, and do fairly well in moderately hard water. Cheers,
Neale.>
|
|
Neon tetra. Hlth. 9/21/09
we have a neon tetra that looks poorly, it has frog eyes is very
bloated.
<Indeed, seems very swollen.>
what is wrong ,water has been checked with API master kit and
seems fine.
<Define "fine". Let's recap what Neons need.
Firstly, the water shouldn't be too hard. Neons come from
fairly soft water habitats, and above around 10 degrees dH, they
simply don't do reliably well. Secondly, Neons come from
relatively cool streams, and normal tropical temperatures can be
a bit high. You're aiming for between 22-24 degrees C, which
is ideal for Corydoras catfish by the way, which also prefer
fairly cool conditions.
Finally, Neons are intolerant of ammonia and nitrite. You need
consistently zero levels of ammonia and nitrite. There's no
"safe" level above zero, whatever you might
(mistakenly!) assume from some test kits.>
could it be pregnant
<No. This Neon is in a very bad way. While this doesn't
look like Neon Tetra Disease (which usually causes fish to lose
their colour) this fish certainly appears to have some type of
infection. Broadly, it has what aquarists often call
"Dropsy", which is really nothing more than a symptom
rather than an actual disease. For fish that are this small,
treatment is usually pointless, and euthanasia is required.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/euthanasia.htm
Certainly, isolate the fish (in another tank, not a floating
trap) if you want try using an antibiotic, and while medicating,
remember not to mix anything like nets or buckets between the
display tank and the hospital
tank. Neons seem particularly prone to infecting one another, and
very many people have experienced Neons dying off one at a time,
a few weeks apart, until there are none. Poor environmental
conditions in your tank may be part of the problem, but given the
fact Neons are farmed very intensively to keep them cheap, if you
bought these Neons within the last month or so, it's quite
possible the blame rests with the retailer, wholesaler or the
fish farmer. Personally, I don't rate Neons terribly highly
because of this, and when only cheap farmed Neons are available,
I recommend 6 weeks quarantine, without fail. Incidentally, the
plant in the foreground looks like Acorus, a type of plant that
won't live long underwater in a tropical
aquarium. Do review any plants you buy carefully: many
inexperienced aquarists are sold non-aquatic plants such as
Acorus, Dracaena, Spathiphyllum, Selaginella and others. It's
such a common con that it's beyond a joke.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWsubwebindex/keepoutfw.htm
Cheers, Neale.>
|
|
Dying fish, FW.... Neons... 4/18/09
Hello again! It's me, L.L. (please call me Kiara) again.
<Hello Kiara,>
My Neon Tetras are hanging out near the surface nearly vertical, and
one refuses to eat.
<Please, check two things. Firstly water quality. You should have a
nitrite test kit at minimum, and you should detect zero nitrite.
Secondly, check water chemistry. You should have a pH test kit at
minimum. For Neons the precise value doesn't matter -- anything
between 6 and 7.5 will do -- but the pH should be stable, i.e., the
same thing, week-in, week-out. Neons need a tank not less than 10
gallons in size, and that tank needs a heater and a filter. Usually
when Neons get sick it's either because of Neon Tetra Disease
(which has very specific symptoms different to what you're
describing) or poor water conditions (the symptoms of which match
precisely what you're describing).>
The other keeps picking on it.
<When one Neon gets sick, it's common for the others to turn on
it. The reasons for this are complicated and don't really concern
us here, but suffice it to say that this allows infections such as Neon
Tetra Disease to get from sick fish to health fish.>
It's showed interest in freeze-dried bloodworms, but the other gets
to it first :(.
Anyway...
We recently found our years-old Mini Bow 2.5-gallon aquarium. It has a
stand, hood with lighting (after I turned it off the filament kept
flashing and the bulb exuded an "old plastic" smell- :)!),
colored gravel, 2.5 Whisper Power Filter, 1 cartridge, carbon...you get
the idea. (No air pump or heater, but my old thermometer says the water
stays at 76 degrees.)
<Neons do prefer around 24 C/75 F, and one way people shorten their
lives is to keep them too warm. That said, unless you house is kept
centrally heated to 24 C all day long, an unheated tank isn't
suitable. Thermometers are not terribly reliable, and more to the
point, just because it's warm in the daytime doesn't mean
it'll be warm at night, or when there's a draught from an open
window. Tropical fish are tropical fish, and unless you live in the
tropics, your house temperature will be too low.>
It also has a plastic plant and a little cave. I am currently using my
male Betta to cycle the filter, but my swordtail (or whatever it is;
it's black but its scales have a green shimmer and the fins are
transparent. Its chest not its stomach is white. The anal fin was once
rounded but over the 4 or so months I've had him/her it's
become a pointy triangle, NOT a gonopodium!) has outgrown its ½ gal
tank (it's 2" long now!).
<You're keeping a Swordtail in a 1/2 gallon tank? I'm
surprised it's still alive, to be honest.>
It once spent at least 5 minutes drying out in the sink but
miraculously survived and only lost one scale and a little of its tail.
Could I use him instead to cycle my tank?
<Not unless you wanted it to get sick.>
And could I also add my male guppy? When would it be safe to remove
them and add my guppy fry?
<You can move fry from the rearing tank to the display tank when
they're too big for the fish in the display tank to eat.
There's no simple answer to that because some community fish have
bigger mouths than others. You have to be sensible. Around 3 months
usually works out all right, but things like Angelfish can eat a
3-month Guppy without any hassle at all.>
Thanks a lot,
Kiara a.k.a. Livebearer Lover.
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Dead (and dying?) fish 4/27/09
Hi, thanks for such a cool site! (Yes, it's me again, Kiara.
I'm such a pain, I know...)
<Hello again,>
Whoo, one of my Neons died horribly today (the fat one). He was in a
2.78 L Betta bowl with Oop, my thin tetra who is now eating again
(Sorry, but I CANNOT get something bigger!) and my ever-pregnant
guppy.
<Look, fish have a certain amount of space they need. 2.78 litres
isn't going to work for anything much. Not even a Betta, let alone
a Neon, or for that matter, a school of Neons. This isn't
negotiable; if you don't have space for at least 10 gallons/37
litres, you shouldn't be keeping Neons.
Any further discussion on treatment, diseases, etc is a waste of
everyone's time, because these fish can't live in the tank
you've put them in. It would be as if you'd brought an Elephant
home and wanted to keep it as an indoor pet. No matter how much you
might love than Elephant and promise to look after it, there's no
way on Earth it could be kept inside your house.
It's the same thing here: there's a difference between loving
animals and looking after animals, and frankly animals don't want
to be loved, they want to be looked after properly!>
He had still been eating but yesterday was swimming head down at a
slant. I did a 100% water change today (which I never do but felt I had
to.)
<100% water changes are rarely a good idea; normally one does 25%
weekly, or 50% in emergencies.>
He was floating upside down in a corner, horribly bloated, with black
spots on his stomach, and his eyes had actually popped out of his
head!
<Blah, blah, blah... seriously, the aquarium is too small, and
discussion of symptoms irrelevant. Neons need a bigger aquarium, with a
heater and a filter. A 10-gallon tank would be acceptable.>
The other fish seem fine now. (My Guppy, Fatty, gave birth 3 weeks ago
but now she is fat again and I can (just barely) see eyes in her
stomach.
:):):)!!!) What do I do?
<Buy a bigger aquarium.>
Please help! I've researched Neon Tetras and had never heard of
anything like this... :(...
<Perhaps because no-one has been misguided enough to keep Neons in
such a small aquarium?>
Thanks again,
Kiara.
P.S. Maybe a WWM Forum could help you guys (and other people) out?
<We have one, here:
http://bb.wetwebmedia.com/
Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Dead (and dying?) fish, Neon Tetra Dis. 5/4/2009
Hi I am Kiara's Mom.
<Hello Kiara's Mom!>
We've got a bigger aquarium. 28 gallons.
<Cool.>
But the filter came broken, so we only have the thermometer and
heather, some plants. we saw her neon tetra discolored and with a bump
in his tummy.
<Oh; what kind of "bump"? Fish don't tend to bruise
easily, or rather, anything that would bruise something like a Neon
would probably kill it first. So I'd be a bit open minded here. The
two most likely problems are
these: Firstly, Neon Tetra Disease. This may in fact be more than one
specific disease, but we'll pass that by for the moment. Neon Tetra
Disease makes the Neon look like it's lost its colour, and it also
tends to become lethargic and often hides away from the other Neons, as
if scared. Its body becomes swollen, and eventually, this can look as
if the fish is severely bruised. There's no cure, and these fish
usually die within a few days.
Since the disease is contagious, it's important to remove them from
other Neons; what happens is if the healthy Neons peck at the sick/dead
Neon, they can catch the responsible parasite. Next up is what we might
call "secondary bacterial infections". These are caused by a
variety of things, but most commonly poor water quality or physical
trauma. You can cure these using antibiotics, for example Maracyn, but
this does assume the background reason is fixed; e.g., if water quality
was poor, the fish is provided with better conditions as well as the
medicine. I actually don't recommend Neons for beginners at all,
and think a wide variety of other fish make much better (easier!)
choices; see here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwlivestk.htm
>
So we decided to put him on a Tupperware floating on the aquarium for
30 min.s.. and then leave him there.
<Ah, this might not help much. A floating container of water will
keep warm, yes, but it won't be filtered, so the ammonia the fish
releases (equivalent to urine in humans) collects and gradually poisons
the fish.
There's no reason to isolate a fish like this; either leave it in
the tank, or move to another, heated and filtered, aquarium.>
Because of your email. We hope we made a good decision.
<Possibly not. I know this all seems frightfully complicated, but
this is why we stress the importance of preventing health problems
rather than curing them, and part of that is using a nice, big
aquarium. Contrary to what the guy at the pet store might suggest,
keeping fish isn't "child's play" and actually takes
a little work. Maybe not so much as a dog or cat, but some work
nonetheless.>
My daughter just turned 12 and she really take loves and take care of
her animals.
<Quite right too!>
Is there an advice you can give us?
<Read! There is a nice primer, here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwset-up.htm
>
Thanks.
<I hope this helps. Cheers, Neale.>
Neon Tetra with Ich and Pop/Cloudy eyes
8/30/08
<Ave,>
I have a neon tetra with 1-2 spots of Ich and pop and cloudy eyes.
<Treat promptly for Whitespot and Finrot/Fungus. Here in England
I'd be using eSHa 2000 and eSHa EXIT, medications for these
complaints that are safe to use together. In your country the range of
options may be different.>
I can also see white extended patches on his body.
<Well, if this is Neon Tetra Disease (Pleistophora) there isn't
much you can do, but a combination Finrot/Fungus medication like eSHa
2000 would be if something less else.>
The fish is pretty strong, eats normally, swims normally and does not
rub against rocks or plants. I isolated the fish in a hospital tank,
but I'm wondering how I should treat it. I bought Melafix and a
remedy for Ich,
<Melafix... largely useless.>
but I'm not sure which one I should use first. I'm also
planning to buy food with antibiotics so that I can treat the
intestines too. What do you suggest?
Thank you,
Giuseppe
<Not a big fan of randomly treating for internal parasites unless
there's evidence the fish is genuinely sick from them, and
that's very difficult to judge. Antibiotics obviously have ZERO
effect on the internal parasites that aren't bacteria, such as
Pleistophora (a protozoan) and Camallanus (a Helminth) so again, you
need to know what you're dealing with rather than randomly pulling
stuff from the shelves and hoping for the best. Cheers, Neale.>
Tetras (Neons & cardinals) dying one by one in the dark in a
planted aq. 8/7/08 I hope you can help. Please forgive the
length, but I wanted to give you all the info I could think of.
<OK.> 30g L, been up for about 8 weeks (cycled with seed filter
from friends established tank), custom hood with AHsupply 96w CF bulb
(3.2W/gal), eco-complete substrate mixed with fine gravel. Fluval 205
filter. Stealth 100W heater. <All sounds good.> Tank has the
following plants (most of which are thriving): Cabomba (2 bunches of 5
stems each), Moneywort (4 bunches of 3 stems each), Melon Sword, Chain
sword (just a baby), Microsword (2sq in patch), Ruffle plant, Wisteria
(just finally establishing its fine submerged leaves - 1 bunch of 3-4
stems), Broad Ludwigia (1 bunch of 3-4 stems), small Java fern, small
Anubias nana, and a large bunch (about 15-20 long stems) of Anacharis
(from a friends established tank). Sounds crowded, but you'd be
surprised how open it really still is. <At least some get pretty big
-- Echinodorus osiris for example will quickly take over a 30 gallon
tank if it thrives; mature plants can be 50 cm tall and 30 cm across!
Echinodorus martii likewise.> To this there's the following
fish: 5 spotted Corys, 6 Otos, 3 "mystery" snails, 6 zebra
Danios, and originally 8 each Neons and cardinal tetras. <Right,
well one issue here will be temperature. To wit, Neons prefer cool
water, 20-24 degrees C; Cardinals need warm water, 25-28 C. There's
no "happy medium" at which both can be expected to do
perfectly well. Corydoras, Otocinclus and Danios are also cool-tropical
fish, and will thrive at 20-24 C (I'd go for 22 C). But that's
too low for the Cardinals. So one way or another, at least some fish
are going to be heat or cold stressed.> The light is on a timer to
cycle 6 hours on in the morning, followed by a 3 hour off break mid
afternoon, then another 6 hrs on in the evening. Then off for the
remaining 9hrs overnight. <OK.> All was well, the plants are
thriving, the fish too. <Good.> Then I added the Anacharis about
2 weeks ago. Suddenly I'm missing cardinals and Neons overnight,
just 1 or 2. at a time. Never noticed any trouble with the
actions/attitudes of the tank mates, everyone pretty much sticks to
their schools. But the losses continued. Everyone looked fine when the
lights are on... healthy, active, feeding. It was great. Well it's
a great mystery alright. <Well, Neons and to a lesser extent
Cardinals can be plagued with "Neon Tetra Disease" and will
drop off one by one until the cycle of infection is broken. But it is
also possible the new plants brought in a predator, such as a Dragonfly
nymph.> I finally started watching closer at night and I found that
after the lights been off for about 90 minutes (+/- 15 minutes) I
notice a gradual and frightening change. Both the cardinals and Neons
lose nearly all coloration going nearly white/clear. <Quite
normal.> Then one or two of them start going bonkers and lose their
equilibrium swimming upside down, backwards and on their sides,
barrel-rolls, tumbling end-over-end, etc., then death. <That is
odd.> Turn the lights back on and gradually (within 20-40 minutes)
all coloration has returned and activity resumes normally. <Ah, now,
this is curious. Have you checked how pH is affected by photosynthesis?
When plants photosynthesise they remove CO2 from the water, allowing
the pH to rise. When they stop, CO2 accumulates and pH goes down.
Alternatively, some (but only the minority) can perform "biogenic
decalcification", and I believe Anacharis is one of them. What
this means is that they remove carbonate and bicarbonate from the water
as the source of carbon for photosynthesis instead of CO2. This is why
these plants prefer hard water. Anyway, in the process the water loses
its carbonate hardness and consequently its pH buffering capacity. The
net result will be that pH will drop while these plants are
photosynthesising, and the water pH will also become less stable with
regard to other pH altering processes.> My water parameters have
been rock solid since the beginning: Nitrite 0; Ammonia 0; Nitrate
"nearly" 0; kH 5deg; GH 12deg; pH 7.6; chlor. 0. I've
even tested right before and after a light cycle and saw no appreciable
difference. Temp stays between 78.5 and 80.5F. <Do check the pH and
carbonate hardness through the day to test my hypotheses above.> My
thought were CO2 poisoning - but the zero change to pH leads me to
believe the CO2 isn't reaching toxic levels. Second thought - The
plants are using up all the available O2 (I'm not aerating) at
night thereby starving the smaller, more sensitive tetras. So I added a
small airstone to the corner of the tank and set a small air pump to
kick on when the lights go out (my timer has day/night outlets). It
didn't seem to help. <Leave CO2 off for a few days and see what
happens. Won't harm the plants.> Last Saturday night was the
worst, within 2-1/2 hours three tetras gone (down to 6 now, 2 cardinals
& 4 Neons left), and all the fish (except the 5 Corys, 2 largest
Danios, and 3 largest Otos) were pale. Even with nighttime aeration.
<Hmm...> So as a stopgap measure I retooled the timer to cycle
the light and dark to 3 hrs light, 2 hrs dark ('round the clock).
Two nights of success now with no casualties... but even though there
is the requisite "amount" of light and dark I cannot imagine
the rapid time cycles are any good for either the fish or plants
long-term. <It isn't good for the plants; they need a certain
length of time simply too start photosynthesising, and 3 hours
won't be enough.> My next attempt will be to get a larger air
pump and drive an 18" bubble wand across the back of the tank
rather than the small airstone driven by the smaller air pump. I know
this will drive out more CO2 to the detriment of the plants (though
probably not too much), but it should eliminate the worry of CO2
poisoning, and should add O2 in the dark for the plants and fish to
(hopefully) share. Also, I'll be raising the filter spout up closer
to the surface to provide a little more surface agitation (currently
its about 2in below with no agitation). <Not sure this is the
issue.> Finally, since this all started after adding the fastest
grower in the largest number/mass plant-wise (the Anacharis). It's
possible that plant addition might've pushed the balance over the
edge with respect to CO2 and O2 respiration. So I'll be pulling
that out and trimming it back to a more manageable (2-3 bunches of 4-5
"short" stems each) size. <Hmm...> Hopefully then I can
gradually return to slowly extending the light/dark cycles to a more
natural rhythm and keep my fish healthy and my plants growing. Any
thoughts? other suggestions? etc? Anything I missed? Mark <Cheers,
Neale.>
Borrowing Trouble(d Neon Tetras)... ...Or actually
Purchased! 7/31/08 <Intriguing title> Hi I
have been using this site for years when a question I cannot answer
or am unsure of arises. However this is the first time I have found
the need to inquire for help. I have been keeping freshwater fish
for nearly eleven years. Started out breeding Fancy Yellow Guppies
for my LFS, then graduated to breeding Bettas. After years (nearly
six) of steady "work" tanks I decided to just have
"pleasure" tanks. I currently have a fully planted 40
gallon with 7 Juli Cory Cats, 13 Rummy Nose Tetras, and 9 Tiger
Barbs. This tank is great has been running for nearly three years
with no problems. So the trouble. I decided to get a smaller tank
and purchase a single Betta and just enjoy his beauty. I bought a 5
gallon eclipse tank from craigslist that was, I quote "fully
stocked". This tank was Over Stocked. There are 9 Neon Tetras,
2 Juli Cory Cats (my interest!) and a single female Guppy, and does
have live plants and a Lot of (pests) snails. Even having some clue
as to what I was buying I decided that $20 was a great deal and
took everything. <Ok> Now I have 9 Neon Tetras with varying
degrees of tumors or lumps and all of whom have a dark reddish line
along the bottom of their bodies. These Neons appear to be at least
a year old as they are all 1"+. I have done lots of reading
and think they may have Neon Tetra Disease, but do not want to rush
such a dyer diagnosis. <Mmm, likely is this (Pleistophora
hyphessobryconis) and possibly some other protozoan issue/s> The
Julis' and the guppy look great and have been moved to my 2.5
gallon Quarantine tank. I plan to introduce the Juli Cory's
into my 40 Gallon and take the female Guppy to my LFS as I have no
desire to see her lonely or give birth! I had planned to keep the
Neon's in the Community Tank also but now I do not know if they
are curable. <Mmm, not as far as I'm aware> For now they
are still in the 5 Gallon Hex I bought them in as it is the largest
aquarium I have. The parameters are: pH 7 Ammonia about 1 (not 0)
-after two 50% water changes in as many days. <Needs to be
zero... Very toxic... though not likely a determinant issue
here> Nitrite 0 Nitrate 10 What would you recommend I do about
the Neons? <Mmm, please see below> I do not know if the 5
gallon will be large enough to safely treat them and do not know
what they have. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thank you,
DB <I do hope/trust that your stated years of using our site
will attest to our not being heartless concerning aquatic life
welfare, but I would summarily euthanize this group of Neons... to
prevent spreading the disease... as they are very likely
untreatable. You could take a cursory scan on the Net to see if
others have some potential cure... Bob Fenner> Re: Borrowing
Trouble(d Neon Tetras)... 8/1/08 Thanks Bob, I was
anticipating that answer. I have never had to euthanize nine fish
at once before...I have only had to do this twice in my years
keeping fish. <Never easy...> What is your personal
preference to euthanize? <Likely Clove Oil... Please read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/euthanasiafaqs.htm> I realize there are
many ways, I'm just wondering if you have a
"painless" method for both me and these poor Neons.
Thanks again, DB <Welcome. BobF> |
Ick/Whitespot 7/22/08 Hi Guys, I added
five new baby neon tetra's to my tank recently - it seems the
neon's have all developed Ick/Whitespot. I already had 6 Neon's
2 guppies and a Sailfin Molly - these all appear to be fine. <So far
at least... http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/mollies.htm Do
review the needs of Mollies, and also be warned Neons may nip the fins
of fancy male Guppies.> I have read your articles regarding ICK and
just wanted to confirm your recommendation for best way to treat.
<Promptly!> I was just going to buy meds and treat the tank with
meds and regular water changes. However from reading through your site
would you recommend increasing temperature and treating with Salt
instead? <Makes no odds either way. I tend to use commercial
medications such as eSHa EXIT (a brand I find works well even with
sensitive species like puffers) because it's easier. But if you
want to use salt/temperature, go ahead.> I have added salt before
but never with the neon's only with mollies/guppies can my
neon's tolerate salt? also my temp is at 80f already is it safe to
increase the temp further? <Neons should tolerate the very low salt
concentration required, particularly if you build up the salinity
across a few days. As for raising the temperature, I wouldn't.
Temperature is about speeding up the life cycle of the parasite; in
itself it isn't a "treatment" as such. The idea is that
the salt only kills the free living parasite, so the sooner that phase
begins, the better.> Thanks in advance Scott <Cheers,
Neale.>
The Bloated Clown Loach and the Gluttonous Neon Tetras, env.
dis. 6/18/08 Hello, <Ave Maria>
I've read related posts, and I did see something about
separating the loach and feeding him frozen or fresh foods to
correct the problem, but I'd just like to make sure that this
is correct for my situation, and to ask about another problem
with our tank population. <Ok> To give a bit of background,
we are currently recovering from a HUGE nitrate spike and
battling high temperatures. Our nitrate level has gone from just
over 100 to around 30. We know this is still way too high, but
it's taking time to get it down with water changes. I'm
so afraid we'll shock the fish. This is a 160L tank with
quite a few plants, 5 angelfish, 15 neon tetras, 1 Hillstream
loach, 1 rainbow shark, 1 plecostomus, and 4 clown loaches. We
had 5, but one got very listless and soon died. Our tank stats
currently are: pH: 6 KH: 5 GH: 14 NO2: 0 NO3: 30 <Still a bit
too high> The current problem loach became very bloated
overnight. The other three will cuddle with him from time to
time, but when they go off to play, he just stays on his side in
a little cave or next to a wall. He is breathing rapidly, and his
gills seem a bit red. <Good description, clues> We
don't have money for a quarantine tank right now,
<Don't need this... just to fix the one they're in
now> but we did put him in a clear plastic container with
water from the tank. He was difficult to catch. We've also
given him some thawed bloodworms. He looks healthy, aside from
the bloating, which makes him look kind of pregnant. We've
just noticed that he seems to have a little hole in his side,
too. Is this the right treatment, or is he lost? <Not lost...
not really a treatment... I'd return this fish to the main
tank. Being in the container is worse> The other issue
involves our neon tetras. We were told that our loaches would
benefit from getting some frozen food once a week. My husband
thaws the block in warm water, then adds it to the tank. The
problem is that our loaches get none of it, since the tetras eat
it ALL. Every single one ends up looking impossibly bloated and
like they might explode. We've tried adding a bit more, but
they just keep eating! Any ideas? <Try other sinking type
foods, or placing in an inverted "blackworms feeder" on
the bottom> Thanks for taking the time to read this. You guys
are always so informative and quick to respond. Thank you! Maria
and Ola <Fix the nitrates... the process of doing so will save
your loach and other livestock. Read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwnitrates.htm and the
linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Re: The Bloated Clown Loach and the Gluttonous Neon
Tetras 6/18/08 Thanks! We were very
worried about the little guy. We'll keep up our dilution plan
until we get to an acceptable nitrate level, and then stick to a
schedule of weekly quarter changes. The fish seem so much happier
and more active after them. Thanks again! <Dilution is not the
only, even likely best route to go. Please read where you were
referred to. RMF> Re: The Bloated Clown Loach and the
Gluttonous Neon Tetras 6/19/08 We've
already adjusted food amounts and begun vacuuming more often as
well. We have a lot of plant life. We'll get to the LFS this
weekend and see what we can do to implement the other recommended
methods. Thanks again! <Ahh, welcome! Do please make it known
how you progress here. Bob Fenner>
Re: The Bloated Clown Loach and the Gluttonous Neon Tetras
06/28/08 Hi, Just an update. I've been sick, so there was
a bit of a delay in going to the LFS. We have started treating
with Tetra's Nitrate Minus, and more importantly, we bought
and set up an external filtration system that has five stages of
filter media. The fish are already looking more lively. Sadly,
Bloaty didn't make it. We should know how well this is
working by Monday. <Thank you for this update. Do take care.
BobF>
|
Possible Disease? - 06/15/2008 To the crew of
WetWebMedia: <Hello, Soojeong. Sabrina with you today.> I have
had neon tetras for about a year (probably a bit more, but
nonetheless); however, a problem stubbornly plagues my humble 20 gallon
aquarium. When I first bought eleven neon tetras, seven survived after
two weeks to be transferred out of the temporary tank and into my
"main" tank. I had no problems so far; I figured that the
companies churning out neon tetras in mass quantity had something to do
with the near 40% mortality rate (maybe it was even a good deal
considering some of the horror stories). <Though I'm sure
there's tons of mass neon production, I believe some are still
wild-caught as well.> I feel it necessary to mention here that the
main tank had already been cycled (I cheated a bit and jump-started
with a handful of gravel from my old 10-gallon tank) <Perfect.>
and had its water treated and tested, as was the temporary tank. I put
in some plants in to help deal with fish waste. A few weeks later, a
bamboo shrimp and a candy striped Pleco joined the group. Everything
seemed well and fine, save a few algae here and there. Life was good.
Here my troubles began. <Uh-oh....> I looked in the tank about a
month or two later to find a tetra dead. None showed typical
Pleistophora (Neon Tetra Disease, god forbid) symptoms. Since the False
NTD caused by bacteria also has similar symptoms as the actual NTD, I
ruled it out. Okay. <Disease common names are worse than fish common
names.... Mycobacteriosis has also been called Neon Tetra Disease....
sigh!> No loss of color (unless postmortem, half-eaten state still
counts), no curvature of the spine... Although one or two fish wandered
off alone, I didn't think too much into it. I was slightly alarmed
at the slightly eaten body, since the other fish might be in danger of
meeting the same end. And two weeks later, another died. Then another
week or two, and another dead body. Then suddenly everything was fine.
Until now, a full year later. Other than two tetras going through a
constant cycle of developing enormous bellies and huge appetites to
getting skinnier and eating normally, nothing seemed out of the
ordinary. <Unless you changed your feeding regime, I'm a little
concerned about the weight gain / loss that you saw....> No new fish
were introduced. Today I woke up to three hungry tetras (possibly
stressed from small group? I couldn't tell), and the body was
nowhere to be seen. It couldn't have jumped out, since I have a
full lid because of the bamboo shrimp and my Neons' odd habit of
sometimes jumping out of the water to get at the fish flakes. I suspect
the body had been eaten. <Quite possibly. It's also surprising
how many nooks and crannies a body the size of a neon can be hidden
in.> I was afraid to bring in new Neons in fear of infecting the new
group or the old group. Was I foolish to do so...? <Foolish?
Nah.> Either way, I didn't want dead tetras. In case it was some
sort of an interspecies infection (although the Pleco is still fine), I
fear to bring in new fish, and taking the tank apart... I would like to
avoid it if I can. <Agreed.> Could it have been some sort of an
internal parasite? <Mm, possibly. Really, there are countless
possibilities.> But I can't see any irregularities in the Neons.
Besides, I do not want to misdiagnose and kill, nor do I want to use
Parasite-Clear and such since most warns against using it for
crustaceans. <Yeah. I wouldn't want to use any medications in
your main tank.> If I did use it, I would have to take my shrimp out
of the main tank, and I don't know whether I can ever put the
shrimp back in with the others, either. <A very valid concern. Any
medications containing copper should not be considered for your tank,
if you wish to keep shrimp. The best option is to remove any affected
fish and treat in a separate system. Though, I gather the remaining
fish are all asymptomatic?> If the shrimp is untreated and later put
in the treated tank (is that even possible? after how much water
changes?) <Again - don't use copper, and as far as water changes
- well, I would give at least a few very large ones, and filter with
carbon and PolyFilter before reintroducing invertebrates. But again, if
avoidable, I wouldn't want to treat the main tank.> is there
still a risk for a reinfection if it was bacterial or parasitic?
<Well, since there's no clear way at this moment to tell what
you're up against, there's no clear answer I can give you as to
whether or not it may resurface. I would consider this within the realm
of possibility.> To summarize: *20 gallon tank (tall); 1 bamboo
shrimp (planning to get another soon if possible), 1 candy striped
Pleco (still small, but I am planning to get a bigger tank later on), 3
neon tetras. *Sudden death of neon tetras, no previous symptoms shown;
possibly clusters of deaths with incredibly long intermittent periods
in between (unlikely, most likely a second infection from unknown
source, perhaps?) <I would guess that the two problems were
unrelated.> I would appreciate any advice you have. <Note also
that the environment may be key here. Neons don't "like"
hard water with a high pH. They thrive in very soft, acidic conditions.
If your water is hard and alkaline, this should also be considered as a
contributing factor in the health of the Neons.> P.S. Pardon me, I
ended up writing a short story. I hope it didn't take up too much
of your time. <Actually, I really appreciate your detail.> Thank
you very much for your efforts. <And thank you for your kind
words.> Soojeong Kim <Wishing you and your fishes well,
-Sabrina>
Question about spot on neon's mouth
3/26/08 Hi folks, I have a 10-gallon tank with a male Betta,
two neon tetras, a frog, and two algae eaters (the kind that stay
little, not sure of the name). They have all lived together for
several months. I clean the tank every other week, this usually
keeps the nitrates under 10. <Neons need to be in groups of 6
or more; in smaller groups they are stressed and unhappy. Please
note that fish couldn't care less about cute names. But what
they want is that you work around their biological needs. In the
case of Neons, that means company! Keeping them in too-small a
group is animal cruelty, however you choose to rationalise
it.> One of the Neons (Zippity) has a dark spot on his lower
lip. I recently had a problem with stringy algae and thought he
may have gotten some stuck on his mouth, but it hasn't come
off in a couple of days. He is able to eat. Should I put him in
the hospital tank in case he is sick and could pass it along to
the others? <No. It may simply be physical damage, in which
case it will heal. But do also be aware that things like Mouth
Fungus and Finrot can start as small blisters or sores. So as
ever, check your nitrite level before you do anything else.>
Also, should I be adding aquarium salt to the tank? <No.
Almost all fish diseases come down to water quality issues.
Almost none come down to not using salt!> I don't now
because I thought I read that Neons don't like salt, but did
read that it's good for disease prevention. <They
don't and it isn't.> Thank you! Alice <Cheers,
Neale.>
Re: question about spot on neon's
mouth Thank you for the advice. I will keep a close eye on
the spot. The two Neons are the last two from a school - I will
make sure they find a new home with other Neons as soon as he
recovers. <Very good. Good luck, Neale.>
|
Schooling Advice... Neon Tetras 2/10/08 I
recently e-mailed you guys about my school of diminishing neon tetras.
After hearing from you guys that Neons are poor quality most of the
time in large stock and from my own experience, I think Neons are just
too much of a hassle and a waste of money because of there very short
longevity. Currently there is 1 dwarf Gourami, 2 blue gouramis, 1 gold
Gourami, and 4 rainbow sharks in my 55 gallon aquarium along with about
5 remaining neon tetras. Here's my question though. What do you
think would be a good schooling fish. I was thinking about tiger barbs,
but if you can think of something better that'd be great. I plan to
just put my remaining Neons up for adoption at the petstore as I did
with my crayfish. Thanks for you help and advise. <Jonathan, given
you were keeping crayfish with the Neons, I'd not be too quick to
blame the Neon's demise on poor health. In addition, it is
absolutely essential you eliminate environmental factors before
apportioning blame. So do a pH test and a nitrite test, and check your
filter is still working properly and not clogged up. Obviously if the
water isn't that great, *any* new fish you add are likely to
suffer. Fish that have been established in a tank for many months will
often seem happy enough in such tanks because they've slowly
adapted to those conditions. But any new fish will be used to the water
quality/chemistry at the retailer's tank, and will get stressed or
killed by being dumped in entirely different conditions in your tank.
In any case, Tiger Barbs would be a poor choice for a tank with
Gouramis because Tiger Barbs are fin-nippers. So to are Serpae tetras,
Black Widow (Petticoat) tetras, and several other small characins. Read
up on any species carefully before you make a purchase. I happen to
consider Bleeding Heart Tetras among the best all-around characins:
they are pretty, quite big, constantly chasing each other but
completely peaceful towards tankmates. They are also hardy and too fast
for aggressive or nippy fish to bother (mine live in a tank with
puffers and have NEVER been nipped). Australian Rainbowfish are also
very reliable choices, especially if you have hard water. Cheers,
Neale.>
Dying Tetras 2/10/08 I have been reading through
your site and couldn't get a definite answer about my dying neon
tetras. So I was wondering about my neon tetras. I recently added 12
neon tetras to my old school of 5. So my school of 17 looked awesome,
but then I lost half of my school in a few days. <This seems to
happen quite often with Neons, and is one reason I have stopped keeping
them and don't recommend them. The quality of the mass produced
stock is fairly poor, and I suspect depends a lot on the use of
antibiotics. As soon as the fish arrive at the retailer, the
antibiotics wear off and the fish become increasingly sensitive to
opportunistic infections. This may be aggravated by the fact most
people keep Neons far too warm; in the wild their preferred temperature
range is 22-25 C, so compared with most other tropical fish, they need
something a little cooler. Failing in this regard may be stressing
them, leading to greater sensitivity to infections. Pleistophora
("Neon Tetra Disease") may also be prevalent. Although more
expensive, Cardinal tetras strike me as being better value.> The
aquarium is 55 gallons and my water parameters are fine except for pH
which may be a little high (7.6). <Well within their tolerances; if
acclimated, Neons have been know to do well at up to pH 8, 30 degrees
dH! Water quality and temperature are probably much more significant
issues.> Ammonia is 0ppm, nitrites are 0ppm, and nitrates are about
10-20ppm. My other fish in the aquarium are 1 dwarf Gourami, 2 blue
gouramis, 1 gold Gourami, 4 rainbow sharks. I also have 4 crayfish in
my tank, biggest on is about 3 inches long max. I am thinking maybe
they are catching my Neons and eating them. <Crayfish will indeed
eat small fish. Under no circumstances can crayfish be considered safe
additions to the community tank. While it is true crayfish are mostly
herbivores in the wild, in aquaria they can easily catch small fish.
Because Neons sleep close to the bottom of the tank, crayfishes could
easily catch and eat them.> I actually saw one snacking on a tetra
but not sure if he caught him. It might also explain why I only
actually see a few of my Neons dead while the other ones are just not
there. <Do check for signs of Pleistophora: Infected Neons lose
their colour, become shy, stay away from the group, and often hide
under plants. A few days later they're dead. Pleistophora is highly
contagious once the fish is moribund or dead because opening the body
cavity (e.g., as other fish eat the corpse) allows the parasites to
swim into the water. The only way to effective stop Pleistophora is to
remove infected fish on sight. They should be painlessly destroyed, as
there is no reliable cure, and certainly not once the disease because
sufficiently entrenched that you can tell the fish actually has it.>
They didn't jump out of the tank because I have a very tight
fitting canopy and there's no dried up tetras on the carpet. One
more thing too, if my pH is to high I was thinking about using water
from a local spring in which the pH is about 6.4, and no ammonia,
nitrite or nitrates. I would also run it through my deionization filter
to make sure any harmful things would be removed. I would greatly
appreciate your help and advise. <Mixing soft water with hard water
out the tap is fine. I do this by mixing rainwater with tap water to
good effect. Filtering the spring water or rainwater through carbon
will remove any nasties, but generally such water sources are at least
as safe for fish as tap water, perhaps more so. In any case, do always
remember to make water chemistry changes slowly, perhaps doing 25%
water changes each week until you reach the desired level of hardness
and acidity. Now, the crayfishes will not like soft water. They need to
be removed anyway, but just as a heads-up, in common with all
crustaceans, "the harder the better" in terms of healthcare.
Also remember that as hardness drops, so does pH stability, and many is
the aquarist who's softened the water in their tank only to
discover the pH suddenly drops between water changes. I'd not take
the hardness below 10 degrees dH. Remember: fish don't care about
pH, so long as its stable; what matters is *hardness*, as that directly
influences osmoregulation. Cheers,
Neale.>
Re: Ceramic media, air pumps... Actually Neon Tetra... dis.,
repro. 09/13/07 Hello Neale, <Hello Giuseppe,> as
you know I have 2 adult Neons in my tank. One of them has a larger
abdomen compared to the other one, so I assume I have a male and a
female. <Indeed. According to Baensch, the difference is also seen
in the shape of the blue line: on males it is straight, on females it
is bent. But I can't see any difference!> Now, I noticed that
every 6-8 weeks the female becomes even larger and tends to eat much
less and spend most of the day in a quiet spot of the tank. This
situation lasts for about 10-15 days, after which her abdomen goes back
to normal and she starts eating normally. <Odd.> Do you think
that she might have eggs during the time she's more swollen and
doesn't eat much? <Sounds plausible enough. Do keep an eye out
for Neon Tetra Disease though: key symptoms are shyness, loss of
appetite, and loss of colour. Then they die! NTD is unfortunately very
common.> If this is the case I would be very fascinated in trying to
breed the two Neons. I read that it's pretty challenging, but that
experience would be extremely exciting for me, considering also that
neon tetra is one of my favorite fish. <I'm not sure it's
"difficult" per se, since these fish are bred in their
millions on fish farms. The problem for most aquarists is Neons only
breed in very soft water. The other big mistake people make with Neons
is to keep them too warm; while they aren't subtropical fish, 26C
(79F) is the top of their preferred thermal range, and for breeding
they only want around 24C (75F). When kept in hard, overly warm water
they just won't spawn, or if they do, the eggs become fungused.>
Do you also have any good web site where the breeding process for Neons
is described in detail? <Is there nothing here at WWM? Breeding
Neons follows the same basic pattern as most other tetras. Soft (<2
dH), acidic water (5-6); low light levels (i.e., no lights, lots of
shade); little to no water movement; and benthic plants like Java moss
to catch the eggs. Sunlight can be a good spawning trigger. Eggs hatch
in one day, free swimming 3-4 days later, when they take Artemia
nauplii and the like. If you're interested in fish breeding,
there's an excellent book by Chris Andrews called 'Fish
Breeding'. It's my bible for fish breeding. You can usually
pick up used copies on Amazon and the life for a dollar or two.>
Thank you, Giuseppe <Good luck, Neale>
Re: Ceramic media, air pumps... Actually Neon Tetra... dis.,
repro. 09/13/07 Neale, <Giuseppe,> I just bought
that book. I was thinking about what you said about the water
conditions needed to breed neon tetras and I have a couple of
questions: 1 - Currently the tank where they live has a temperature of
78F and PH at 7.0. If I setup a second tank with lower temperature and
acidic water, wouldn't the Neons have a shock when I move them from
one tank to the other one? <Small water temperature changes
don't harm freshwater fish; indeed, they are often important
spawning triggers. If you're moving the fish from one tank to
another, then doing the normal thing of placing the fish in a bucket of
"old" water and dribbling in the "new" water over
30 minutes will not only adapt them to the new water chemistry but the
water temperature too. If you're taking the fish across a dramatic
water chemistry change, e.g., from hard water to very soft water, you
would probably be wise to fill the breeding tank with hard water and
then do soft water changes of around 20% each day until the water
chemistry had changed over completely. Do also remember that very
acidic water doesn't support biological filtration. You will need a
small air-powered box filter filled with ammonia-remover for such a
tank. There's a good argument for not filtering the tank while the
parents are actually spawning and when the eggs are sitting in the
moss. Only start the filter back up once the fry are free swimming.>
2 - If the Neons have to be kept in dark conditions but with plants in
the tank, wouldn't the plants die for lack of light? <Yes, if
you kept the lights off all the time. What you're aiming for is to
put the Neons in the tank for a week, and once settled down, turn off
the lights so the tank only gets natural light, and once they've
laid their eggs and the fry are free swimming, turn the (subdued)
lights back on. Regardless, the level of lighting should be low, and
the peat extract in the water will make it quite murky. Java Moss will
tolerate this regime fine. I have one tank that simply receives natural
light from a window and the Java Moss has gone wild. Baby fish love the
stuff, because it collects detritus and micro-organisms that they can
eat. There's obviously a balance between having a nice rich
microflora and a dirty tank though! Some people skip plants and use
synthetic mops of various types, home-made (boiled dark-coloured yarn,
teased into threads and then knotted) or purchased. There are really
many options.> 3 - How long does it typically take from when the
Neons are moved to the breeding tank to when they actually spawn?
<No idea, never done it myself. Typically fish take a few days to
settle into a spawning tank, but once there, if they're mature
enough to breed, they will do so almost at once. The key thing is
conditioning the female: lots of live foods so that she gets nice and
fat.> Thank you, Giuseppe <Cheers, Neale>
Neon Tetra with mouth stuck open.
6/21/07 Hi All, > I'm Fran and this question really does
what it says on the tin. We have a neon tetra who appears to have his
mouth wedged open. He sort of inhales smaller food particles so
he's not starving, but it looks painful. My other half reckons
it's just because he's old, and he does not seem the type of
fish to leap about and injure himself, but I do not know what else
could have done this and what I can do to help him. Many thanks on
behalf of myself and Tetra, F. <Hello Fran. This does sometimes
happen, and usually when I've seen this on tetras it is because of
a congenital deformity. Sometimes larger fish, like cichlids, dislocate
their jaws when fighting. But that's unlikely to be the problem
here. I'm not sure how a neon might damage its jaw to this degree,
at least, not without something obvious, like mouth fungus, setting in
first. Since the fish is feeding and otherwise healthy, I wouldn't
worry about it too much. FYI, Neons should live for around 3-4 years in
aquaria, if that helps you decide whether he's "old" or
not. Cheers, Neale.>
Neon tetras--strange growths
4/24/07 Thanks for an excellent resource! I did peruse the FAQs
before sending, and cropped and reduced the attached photos.
<Good> In general, my 20 g long tank is fine. It's a
planted tank (java ferns, dwarf sag, Christmas moss, Monoselium
tenerum) with 1 SAE, a number of "wild cherry" shrimp
(Neocaridina denticula sinensis) and 12 neon tetras. I've had
some of the Neons for a couple of years; I added 6 a few
months ago. The tank in general is doing well. The younger Neons
spawn regularly ( I just saw them doing it a few minutes ago.) I
was about to test the water for pH before I sent this e-mail, but
found I was out of reagent. It usually tests around neutral in the
tank, out of the tap it's usually 8.0, but I have the tank on
DIY CO2. <Very good> The temperature is usually at about 73
F, but they've been goofing with the A/C in my office building,
so now its a bit cool (70 F.) Anyway, some of the older
Neons have this strange growth as you can see in the picture. It
started months ago on one of them, but didn't/doesn't grow
very quickly at all, and at first did not seem to affect other fish
in the tank, but as you can see, that has recently changed. It
often seems to start as a small growth on the mouth, and then shows
up elsewhere. There are about 6-7 Neons in the tank that are
unaffected, and about the same number that are, to varying degrees.
I have a tank at home that stays in the low 80s (we live in Hawaii,
no A/C at home) <Am out on the Big Island currently... mauka of
Kona... at about 1,400 feet elevation... as many folks do here for
moderation of seasonal temp.> with white clouds in it. I was
wondering...would it be a good idea to swap tanks? <Mmm, yes>
I know the Neons like it warmer, and the white clouds like it
cooler... but would it be better to put a heater in this tank,
rather than risk infecting the white clouds with whatever this
growth is? <I don't think this growth, condition is
"catching" from the Neons to Tan's fish...> Once
again, thanks for an excellent resource! I appreciate your help
tremendously!! Rus Wilson <Thank you for writing, sharing... I
would switch out these two fish groups... I strongly suspect that
the better part of the older Neon condition is largely
age-influenced... They only live a few years... And would not
attempt actual treatment/s other than to move them to the warmer
setting. Bob Fenner> |
|
Seemingly Incurable Mouth Fungus 3/11/07
Hello, <Hi there Theresa> I was hoping to
find some advice to treat an apparent case of mouth fungus on one of my
neon tetras. My tank is 30 gals with a 7" Pleco, 2
Serpae tetras, 2 emerald eye tetras, 3 high fin black tetras and 5
Neons. <Mmm, with such a nice mix, I do hope your water quality
sides on the warmer, more soft and acidic side> About three weeks
ago, one of my Neons developed what I think is mouth fungus on one side
of his mouth. <Mmm, actually funguses are rare... more likely
bacterial in nature, and resultant (if only one specimen afflicted)
from a physical trauma...> I treated it with MelaFix
<Worthless> as per the instructions removed carbon and daily
treatment for 7 days (I can tell from your site MelaFix is not one of
your favourites!) <For me, you are correct> No
results, so I treated once again after a 7 gal water
change. I still had no improvement in this fish but no other
fish seemed to get sick. I know (also from your site) that I
should have a quarantine tank but unfortunately space does not allow
for me to have 2 tanks! I spoke with my LFS and they
recommended the Maracyn. <I do as well.... Erythromycin otherwise
known as> I have treated twice with this medicine over the period of
about 2 weeks and still no improvement. I have now noticed
that one other neon has a small white spot near his
mouth. Is there another medicine or technique that you could
suggest? <Mmm... the next most likely effective, and safe... Maracyn
II, Minocycline> Along with the Maracyn, the LFS recommended that I
raise the temp in the tank (it is now about 80) <I also agree
here> and I also added some salt <Mmm, no... Definitely not. None
of the fish species you list has much tolerance for this> which I
was unaware was needed in a freshwater tank. I am not sure
what to do next so I was hoping for some insight from your
website. Thanks in advance for your help
in this matter. I know these are only Neons and I would
really like to see them get better but I don't want to lose my tank
population either. Theresa <Do raise
the temperature, to the mid eighties F., and try the Maracyn II... Bob
Fenner>
Re: Seemingly Incurable Mouth Fungus II 3/11/07 Thank
you for the info and most of all the quick response! <<Bob
answered your original querya "you're welcome" on his
behalf. Lisa Brown here.>> It is greatly appreciated by me and
the tank. I have started to raise the temperature to the
mid80s and I am now on my way to try and find the Maracyn
II. I really hope this will save the affected
fish. <<Likely will. Be sure to keep
pristine water conditions as well.>> Just a few
more questions - should I do a water change before I begin the next
treatment and if I cannot find the Maracyn II should I try another
treatment with the regular Maracyn? <<Yes to the water change
(~25%). You should have no trouble finding Maracyn II.
Either at your LFS, or online from a number of vendors.>> Thanks
again, Theresa <<Glad to help Theresa. Lisa Brown.>>
Re: Seemingly Incurable Mouth Fungus II 03/15/07 So, I am on
the 4th of the 5th day of treatment with the Maracyn II and there is no
improvement in the fish. My water has become quite cloudy (I
did remove the carbon prior to the treatment) and it seems to have a
yellowish tinge for some reason. <Medication effects> One of the
other Neons has a small spot on its mouth also. I did a few
tests on the water quality and the ph is about 7.2 and it tested as
being on the hard side. Do you have any
more advice for me as I am not sure where to go from here? <A
microscope, reference works...> Do a water change and start another
treatment with something else or should I keep with the Maracyn II as
the fish has been sick for awhile and maybe it will take 2
treatments? As you can tell I am grasping at
straws! Thanks again. Theresa
<I would continue to monitor water quality... finish the Antibiotic
treatments... and read. Bob Fenner>
Molly and Neon Tetra Health
Questions, env. 3/16/2007 Dear WWM crew, <Ching> I love
your website and learn a lot from here. Thank you. <Welcome> I
have a 15 gallon tank with 2 Cory catfish, 3 black mollies and 7 neon
tetras. <Mmm... the Cats and Neons like very different water
conditions than the mollies... soft, acidic, much warmer... no
salt...> Environment: Water PH: 8.0 (Our tap water is pretty hard.)
<I'll say! About the same here in San Diego> Temperature:
25~26 C Nitrate: 20~40 ppm <Way too high... a source of
stress...> Nitrite: 0 ppm Ammonia: 0 ppm One male molly has
"obvious" mouth fungus and noticeable grey spots on his body.
As I heard Cory catfish and neon tetra do not like salt, I did not add
aquarium salt to the tank. <Good> I used Melafix and Pimafix
together to treat the black molly. The second day and third day I could
see the improvements and thought the medicine worked great.
<Mmmm> As the medicine indicated we can use it when intruding new
fish to the tank, so while during the course of Molly's medication
(on the fourth day, I think) I added 4 neon tetras to the tank. The 7
neon tetra were doing fine and schooling around together. The black
molly seemed to be getting better too. However, yesterday (the 8th day
of the medication) black molly's mouth started to show the fungus
again and I saw a couple of grey spots on his body. Should I use other
medicine, stronger one? Or I should continue the ones I am using? <I
would separate the molly/mollies, treat it/them with salt... Keep it in
another setting> Today (the 9th day) I saw a red spot on one neon
tetra's body, which is near the tail. I am not sure what it is an
have no idea what I should do. It looks like human's bruise just
the color is red not purple. Anything you could suggest? <Yes... to
modify their water chemistry (w/o the Mollies present)... to be
softer/more acidic (pH below 7.0)...> I have had this tank just for
two months and enjoyed it a lot. But, there's still so much to
learn to keep my fish healthy. <Lots of valuable lessons about
life...> Thank you again for all the information you provide on the
site. It is really helpful! Yours truly, Ching <A pleasure to help
you, Bob Fenner>
Next line-up: The neon
tetras. 1/19/07 For some reason, a little guy dies off
in this tank. The first to fall I feel died because of shock. The
second one I feel ate too much (this one was so quick at eating, he ate
all the flakes before the others could get it. then he just went
haywire and died.) Last night, the larger of the neon tetras (others
about .75 inch) died. He was an inch in length and I thought he'd
be able to take care of himself. He didn't seem to overeat and I
thought he would have gotten his fair share. I came back and he was
dead (the ghost shrimp had their way as he dropped). The water was fine
- just tested - no one was attacking him, and he wasn't showing any
previous signs of weakness or illness. What could it be? Granted I
stepped out to research more on their natural behaviors, I came back
and he was shrimp meat. <Likely an internal parasite, disorder> I
know the frog is too slow to touch a tetra and the shrimp wouldn't
have been able to hold on to a live tetra, so what happened? How long
do these guys usually live for and how hardy are they? <Mmm, two to
four or five years... Cardinals are a bit longer-lived> I have the
worst luck with these (this being the third) and feel like he may have
just been in bad shape from the pet store - (they have just passed
their first week and a half of captivation with me). I know these guys
get shipped in horrible conditions and it stays that way until they
find a new home. should I just expect a fraction of the group to die
given previous stress? <Likely so>
Blue
Neon Tetras : Old or ill? - 05/09/06 Hi,
<<Hello, Francesca. Tom with you.>> I am a first time
poster on this site - you seem a lot less smug than other sites and I
would appreciate help rather than finger pointing!
<<I lost whatever "smugness" I may have had years ago.
:) As for "finger pointing", let's see what you have to
tell us.>> I have a 95 litre tank which happily (usually) houses
8 blue Neons and cardinals, 3 black tetras, 3 glass catfish, 3
swordtails, 2 small albino Corys, 1 golden sucking loach (who knows his
place and is not a bully), 1 upside down catfish, 1 fat apple snail and
two small but adult silver sharks who we inherited with the
tank. Some were residents of the tank when we took it on
(the bigger ones) and others have been added over the course of about a
year. We are expecting a new tank, about double the
capacity, very soon, since we are aware that the silvers require more
space really. <<Excellent. If you could "lock down" the
specific species of "shark" that your "Silvers"
are, we could add a little more detail. For example, what are known as
Silver-tip Sharks (among other names) require vastly different water
conditions than the other fish in your current tank need. Might be a
problem down the road...>> They have all been cohabiting merrily
for a number of months now. They get about 15 to 20 per cent
of their water changed on a weekly basis, are regularly dosed with
salts and their new water is dechlorinated at every
change. The PH remains at roughly 7, the ammonia level as of
last night was 0.25ppm, the nitrite level was negligible and the
nitrate level (whilst higher than I would like it) was at an apparently
safe 35ppm. <<Okay. Ammonia levels and nitrite levels above
"0" are not good. (I'll get to this later since it has a
direct bearing on your question.) Nitrate levels are "safe"
up to 40 ppm for "some" fish. Others can't tolerate these
levels over a sustained period. Cichlids, for instance, require low
levels of nitrates as some diseases attributable to nitrates are
known.>> The problem is this. Three of the blue
tetras seem to be unwell. They are showing black
discolouration on random areas of their bodies, although this does not
appear to be fungus or algae, but rather a genuine change in
colour. They do not seem to be wasting away or becoming
thinner, but instead seem to be kind of lumpy, again in random areas.
<<Black discoloration can be a sign of chemical burning, i.e.
from ammonia/nitrite exposure, that is actually in the process of
healing. Usually, this will occur around the gill plates. The change in
normal coloration can be expected when a fish is stressed.>> With
the exception of one they are schooling, swimming and feeding as
normal, but one is showing possible swim bladder issues. He
is twirling and swimming on his side, and avoiding the company of the
others. <<Again, this can be due to stress and toxic
poisoning. Some fish are more "susceptible" than
others.>> I have looked at a number of sites with partial
descriptions of these symptoms, but nothing complete. They
are showing some symptoms of Neon Tetra Disease, but lack the
significant seeming white discolouration. <<I would
discount this. From personal experience, your fish would be dying/dead
right now. Trust me.>> I do not know how old they were when we
bought them, but they were fully grown. They were brought
from an aquarist shop specifically chosen because they seemed to care
about the welfare of their livestock over that of their profit, but I
did not ask their age at the time of purchase. <<No worries.
I'm glad you found someone to trust.>> Are my fish ill?
<<In part, I would say that they are.>> If so, is there
anything I can do to help them? <<Easiest treatment in the world.
Water changes. Get the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels down. Start with
a 50% water change (40 litres). Also, check your filtration. Don't
believe that a filter rated for 90-100 litres will actually do the job.
Oversize it, as you should with your new tank.>> Are they just
old? <<Perhaps, but there are still things you can/must
do.>> They are small, so I suppose they have a limited number of
heartbeats like the rest of us! <<That's why I don't
exercise, Francesca. I don't want to use up the heartbeats I have
left! :)>> Please help me as I really do not like seeing my boys
ill, Francesca <<Hopefully, I have helped. Best of luck.
Tom>> Re: Blue Neon Tetras : Old or ill? -
05/09/06 Hi Tom, <<Hello again, Francesca.>> Many
thanks for all your help. You have no idea how relieved I am
that we can probably discount NTD. <<Very glad to be
able to help. Having had personal experience with NTD, I know exactly
how relieved you are.>> We will get on with those water changes,
and have found a nitrate/nitrite (and, by definition, ammonia) teabag
thingy for the filter. <<If I may, Francesca, rely on the water
changes rather than your new filter insert. I suggest this because you
don't want to starve the bacteria that feed on ammonia and
nitrites. There is an "irony" here, which is that these
filter media will work. The downside is that they may not let your tank
reach its "potential" so as to become
"self-sustaining". Your parameters aren't so far out of
line that you have an "emergency" on your hands. The
long-term benefit of letting things run their course is that you
won't have to "toy around" with your tank. Much easier on
you in the long run.>> We will upgrade the filter
ASAP. The deal we have seen on the tank includes a filter so
we may be able to upgrade this at that point. <<This sounds very
good. I love upgrades! :)>> Thanks again for setting my mind at
ease. Fran <<Happy to do so, Fran. Tom>>
Non-cottony mouth fungus on blue tetra? Also, black neon
with balance problem - 5/5/2006 Hi crew! <<Hi,
Helen.>> (Before I begin, the tank details: 15-gallons (12"
* 12" * 24"), quite densely planted, no CO2, nearly a year
old, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, nitrates usually under 5 ppm (and always
under 10 ppm), temperature 27 C, pH 6.5 (tap water used for water
changes has pH of 7.5), 20% water changes once per week. Stocked with 3
Danios, 3 black neon tetras, 2 silvertip tetras, 2 blue tetras, 1
Otocinclus. Fed once per day, alternately with flake and tetra
granules, with bloodworms or daphnia once per week.) <<All sounds
excellent, Helen. Great job on the care and feeding.>> I have two
new blue tetras who've been in my 15-gallon planted tank for about
a month now (they went through two weeks of quarantine first, following
your excellent advice!). <<Our advice isn't worth much
without folks like you who make the effort to follow it. :)>> One
of them has settled in beautifully (chases around the Danios, who are
three times his size!), but the other one is far more retiring - he
seems to pick a spot away from the other fish and lurk in it, changing
his hideaway every week or so. In the past two weeks, I've noticed
that he's developed a light, dull patch just above his mouth, on
his "nose". I immediately thought "mouth
fungus!"... but the pictures I've found online show that the
symptom of this is a fluffy, cottony growth. His patch is
light-coloured, but flat and smooth. Could this be mouth fungus, or
something else? <<I would be thinking that this is more like a
"scuff" or abrasion. Enough to change the coloration but not
a physical trauma to be concerned about.>> I'm a little
concerned by his lethargy, but he doesn't gasp or hang at the
surface, and comes out from his hiding place in a great hurry whenever
food is introduced to the tank (he's eating very well). Apart from
the white patch, his general colouration is vibrant and shiny. I
can't pinpoint when the patch first appeared, but having been
watching it for 2 weeks it doesn't seem to have become bigger or
changed texture. <<I've mentioned this in other responses and
will again here. It's always a good sign when a fish feeds and
particularly good when its appetite is strong like your fish is
demonstrating. I would attribute the hiding and seeming lethargy to
"shyness" more than anything else. Personally, I've got
fish that all but jump into my hand when I feed them and others (same
species) that sort of lay back waiting for the food to come to them.
All are healthy but display different kinds of behavior.>> Do you
think it would be a good idea to put him back in the quarantine tank
for a course of antibacterial treatment? Unfortunately, I don't
have access to medicated food in the UK. <<I don't see any
need for this right now, Helen. In fact, I don't think it would be
a good idea from the standpoint of handling and trying to re-settle the
fish in a new environment so soon.>> Also, my oldest black neon
tetra (had him nearly as long as the tank, and he's now about
2" long) has always hung at a bit of an angle, but over the past
few months it has become more pronounced - he now hangs at a 45-degree
angle, nose-up, when stationary! When moving around, he can swim
normally. He's active and eats well, but I'm worried that when
stationary he does seem to have to work his fins quite hard to stay in
one place (he looks as if he'd tail-slide backwards and downwards
if he stopped beating his fins). No list in the horizontal plane,
though. I'm assuming that this is a swim-bladder problem, and what
I've read suggests that these are very difficult to treat. Would it
be worth trying him with a quick course of antibacterial medication
anyway? <<No. Never a good idea to treat for something that
can't be positively identified (or as close to it as humanly
possible). I've got one lone survivor out of 12 from a disastrous
bout of Neon Tetra Disease (had them all in quarantine, thank goodness,
and he spent an additional four or five weeks in "solitary"
afterward) who displays the same type of swimming behavior. Perfectly
normal otherwise but always seems a little "nose-up" when
stationary. I'm not concerned and I don't think you should be,
at this point, either.>> Thank you very much for your time, and
your excellent site! Helen <<I hope I've helped lessen your
concerns, Helen. You're doing a wonderful job. Tom>>
Non-cottony mouth fungus on blue tetra? Also, black neon with balance
problem - 05/05/2006 Thanks for the advice and encouragement, Tom!
Though... maybe it was a little _too_ much encouragement... a simple
trip to LFS to get more water conditioner somehow ended up with us
walking out with a new 8-gallon heated tank, an armful of plants, and a
splendid little blue/green Betta (we'd been talking about getting
one for a couple of weeks - and doing the research - so it wasn't
_completely_ an impulse purchase... but it wasn't what we went to
the store for!). Multiple tank syndrome beckons... <<Oh, stop!
I've a 20-gallon tank lying fallow right now that's virtually
"screaming" for inhabitants. (I can hear it calling me as we
speak, in fact!) Seriously, I'm glad I could help. (Hmmmm... A
couple of Bolivian Rams, perhaps.) :)>> Helen
<<Tom>>
Neon Tetra help needed - 03/28/06
Hi. <Hello> I have 5 neon tetras, 3 Zebra Danios and
now 3 Fancy Guppies (1 female and 2 male) with about 7 fry hiding (mom
died)<Sorry to hear that>. When I bought my Tetras
they were all fine until the next morning. 1 had lost its
color from midway on back and was swimming funny (like it was
drunk). It has now regained its coloring and swims
better. However, it goes in fits of twirling about (fast
circular movement; head down) and other times I can't tell which
one it is in the school. What is wrong with it (maybe got
injured on the way home)? I grew up (25 years) with Tetras
(as well as the other types) and have never seen anything like
this. Do I need to remove it from the tank or is it ok to
leave it in there? Thank you, Karen in Georgia. <First,
remove the Neon to another tank. What you describe, to a large degree,
mimics "Neon Tetra Disease"; loss of coloration, erratic
swimming behavior. I've not come across any information that
describes the return of color to a fish once it's been infected,
though, which makes me wonder, to be honest with you. There is a
"false" version of the disease which is bacterial rather that
Sporozoan in its cause but it would be virtually impossible, outside of
a laboratory, for you (or I) to discern the difference. Since NTD is
spread to other fish so quickly and with such fatal results, you should
treat this as a "worst case" to protect your other pets.
Unfortunately, there is no known treatment for NTD although some claims
of success have been offered; none conclusively, I'm afraid.
Maintain your water parameters in the main tank to protect against any
spreading of whatever this may be. Best of luck to you, Karen.
Tom>
What are these things! FW Neons,
Ich... 3/27/06 Dear WWM Crew, I have recently had
all my neon tetras die. The first one to go (thing 1) had dropsy and
was really sad because he had been a part of my aquarium for over a
year. I went to the local aquarium to get two replacements to keep my
second neon company. Within 2 days both of the new guys died. I tested
my water and everything was fine. <Can't tell from here> The
following day I bought another neon tetra and named in speckles (It had
white dots sprinkled over its body and fins). <Perhaps if you named
them after prophets...> This one soon died too, followed by my
second neon tetra (thing 2). I noticed my other fish began having white
dots as well. <Oops... likely not related... but Ich> (I have a
flame tetra, two Gouramis, a Serpae tetra) Doing my research, I assumed
Ich and began treating the tank with CopperSafe, as recommended by the
aquarium store. <... I would NOT treat small characins/Tetras with
Copper products... but half doses of Malachite Green, elevated
temperature... posted on WWM> Paying closer attention to the tank, I
can see many tiny white bugs moving on the glass and floating in the
water that were not there before. <These also are very likely
unrelated...> Can these white bugs be what is on my fish? Are they
parasites hurting my fish? Thank you for your time, Jackie <The
initial losses were probably due to simple differences in your
store/sources water quality, acclimation and your system... the Ich was
likely imported on some of the new fish... the bugs are likely living
on the nutrients, food... You need to "step up" your
maintenance, treat the Ich with something less toxic (likely clean the
tank a bit first, or better, treat the fish elsewhere...), and not
worry re the apparent "bugs". Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwich.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Dying neon tetras 02-05-06 Help! two
weeks ago I did a complete change out of my 10 gallon tank, saving off
half the water and rinsing the new gravel and furnishings well and
added a bubbler. <Better to limit such changes to one quarter if at
all possible> The tank is inhabited by 5 neon tetras, 5 harlequins
and 1 Pleco. <Too small a tank for the last> the water I added
was conditioned by Aquafresh (or something like that) <At least
they'll have minty breath> and the original water was replaced
as well. for two weeks everything was fine, <Only apparently> but
yesterday one of the Neons became bloated and started swimming
sideways. I removed it from the tank and put it in another container
and it was dead by morning. Today, I've noticed another neon
started to exhibit the same symptoms. The harlequins seem to be just
fine. I noticed a rust colored deposit building up on the new
furnishings. what is this deposit and what is happening to my Neons?
any advice you can give would be splendid! thanks, Chris <The Neons
don't "like" your water... or this much change this
fast... Perhaps your system is "re-cycling"... also much
harder on small characins than minnows... See WWM, fishbase.org re
their water preferences. Bob Fenner>
Disease Of Neon Tetra - 11/07/2005 Bob:
<Actually, Crewmember Sabrina with you tonight.> Great site. Just
found it - will come back OFTEN. <Excellent! Glad to hear of
its use to you.> Need help now, though. One of my neon tetras is
acting very erratically. It is swimming, head pointed down at a 45-50
degree angle, in quick jerky motions. I think the stomach is also
slightly bloated. All other tetras are doing fine. Any ideas?????
<Many.... And most prominently, Mycobacteriosis.... often referred
to as "neon tetra disease" or "rainbowfish disease"
for these fishes' apparent propensity for contracting it.> I
have 29 gallon planted tank, 12 Neons, 6 Glo-light tetras, 3 Corys, 1
Mongolian algae eater, <.... a 'Mongolian' algae eater?
That's a new common name to me.> <<So new as to be
UNcommon! <giggle>. Marina>> 1 beta, 2 guppies. I
just added the guppies (to replace two that died), and two of the Corys
(again, to replace some that died). <You might want to consider
using a quarantine system for new livestock....> pH is in the
6.6-6.8 range, temp is 76, ammonia and nitrite are both zero. I do 20%
water changes once every one to two weeks. <Really, there are far
too many possibilities to pin it down on this much info.... But I would
absolutely quarantine this fish in a separate system for fear of it
passing something nasty along to your other fishes.> Thank you,
thank you. <Wishing you well, -Sabrina>
New Planted Tank and Fish Death 10/11/05
Hello, The crew has given me solid advice in the past, and I want to
share a recent experience with you all. I help my parents set up a 75
gal planted community aquarium. We went fairly low tech: no
CO2 injection, low light, 2 Penguin Bio Wheel 350
power filters. All the planting was done immediately. We then cycled
the new setup using established aquarium water and sponge squeezings
from a mature filter. We were able to observe the complete nitrogen
cycle. After our nitrite readings were zero, we added fish. The
complete cycle took a little over 3 weeks. The initial stocking
consisted of 40 Neons, 24 Rummy Nose, 5 Siamese algae eaters, and 5
Amano shrimp. All the Neons died over a 5-7 day period, a few every
night. All but 3 of the Rummy Nosed died in the same period. 3 of the
Siamese died also during this period. None of the shrimp
perished. During the week of death, we continued monitoring all
water parameters. There was never any change in ammonia, nitrite, pH,
or nitrate. I am wondering if we stocked the tank too fast. If that was
the case wouldn't there have been an ammonia/nitrite spike? Is
there more to an established aquarium than just the nitrogen cycle? Are
there other organisms that add to the bio-balance of a mature aquarium
making it more suitable to life? Once a tank is cycled, is it mature?
Or does that take months? I am trying to figure out if we received some
bum fish, or the tank wasn't ready for the new fish. Any thoughts?
<Im sorry you and your fish had such a rough week. I have a few
thoughts/questions. What did you use for your ammonia source when
cycling your tank? Fish food? Ammonia from the grocery store? Since you
had cycled your tank, I assume your ammonia or nitrites were down to
zero. What was your pH? Nitrate level? Tetras are known to be
touchy when you put them into tanks. Did you test the fish store waters
pH? Maybe they experienced a dramatic change in pH. Id consider a
mature tank one thats been up for about a year or so. It does have its
own collection of microfauna. Levels of trace elements have evened
out. I think you probably stocked the tank a bit too fast the
fish may have died before they were able to create an ammonia spike.
Since your shrimp didnt die, you might have had some fish disease that
wiped out most of the tank. Shrimp are very sensitive to ammonia,
indicating that your test kits are speaking truth. You could have just
had some bum fish, but your death levels are really high. Id
suggest adding about 10 tetras at a time for a little while. What is
going to be the final composition of the tank? You could start with
your hardiest fish. You might want to consider a quarantine tank
introducing a disease into a 75 gallon would be a nightmare to clean
up.> Thanks, CW <Anytime, Catherine W>
Dull Neons... Hi there, I was wondering if you could give me
some advice on my neon tetras. Today I noticed that they are looking
very dull in colour and not swimming about as much as they usually do,
also one of them is bloated. I thought this could be neon tetra
disease, do you think this is the case? If so, should I carry out
euthanasia? < If the disease is only affecting one fish then I would
get rid of it. If it looks like it is going to spread to the other fish
then I would treat with Nitrofuranace of Myacin. Make sure you follow
the directions on the package.-Chuck> Thanks Fran
Big Neon Tetra - Big Lack of Info help my neon tetra she got
big eyes is something wrong. she looks full of eggs <If
there's any way you can tell us more about your fish and setup,
including information like water parameters (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate,
pH), tank size, what other fish the tetra is in with, how long
you've had it, how often/how much you change water, we'll be
better able to help you. As it is, the information
you've sent us (big eyes, possibly distended belly) isn't a
whole lot to go off of, and I really can't recommend a treatment
without knowing more. The best I can do for now is suggest
that you follow this link: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwsubwebindex.htm
and read through any of the articles there pertaining you your fish,
your system, etc. Please be sure to take a look at the FAQs
linked to those articles, as well, as there is a great wealth of
information stored here. Wishing you
well, -Sabrina>
Neon problem Hello to all at WWM, <Good morning! Ronni
here with you today.> I have a question about one of my
Neons. I have 3 along with 3 mollies in a 10g
tank I've had them about a month and so far everyone is
still alive. Tank is finally cycled and water quality is
good. My problem is one of my Neons has a colorless eye. I
don't know if it has always been there or just
happened. I hadn't noticed it before. It
seems to be fine, playing, schooling, eating, and its color is good.
From what I've read it doesn't sound like pop
eye. The eye isn't swollen. I'm wondering
if you know if this is just genetic or some sort of infection or
what. Thank you so much for all of your help. <Is the eye
cloudy? If so, it could be an injury of some sort. Keep watching him to
see if it gets better or stay the same. If it gets worse, youll need to
isolate and medicate him.> Thanks, Amy <You're welcome!
Ronni>
Ick Tetras I have a question regarding my neon
tetras. I have a 25 gallon tank with a bio wheel and Eclipse filter.
The ph is constant at 7, the temperature is constant at 80 and I do
regular water changes (every 3-4 weeks as advised by our Aquarium
store) and I treat the water with a Sera product called Aquatan before
I add new water. I do not know the ammonia and nitrite amounts as I do
not have a test kit for these yet. Our tank has been set up for
18 months and we have had no problems. We have 5 neon tetras, 5 lemon
tetras, 2 Corydoras, 3 Otos, and 3 blue German rams that replaced 3
swordfish (the children were upset about the whole eating of the young
aspect). Today I notices a problem with our Neons. They all seem to
have ragged fins from a mild to severe degree, most have some sort of
dark greenish/blackish patches on their sides, and one in particular is
emaciated and a very dull colour. This one also seems to have pop eye
(one other looks like he is developing it ) and at certain angles I can
see a few white things attached to his eyes and head (only this one
seems to have the white effect). Is this neon tetra disease? What
else could it be? Will it affect the other fish? How should I treat it?
The other fish seem fine although one or two of the lemon tetras seem
to have a couple of slight ragged/split spots on their fins that I had
put down to age or nipping by the male swordfish we had. Thank
you for your time in answering this question as my daughter is very
upset and I want to make sure I treat the tank expediently and
appropriately. Lisa < Forget testing for ammonia and nitrites and
get a nitrate test kit. Changing the water every three to four weeks
may not be enough and may need to changed more often. I would recommend
a 30% water change while vacuuming the gravel and then clean the
filter. Now that the tank is clean you should see some improvement. The
tail/fin rot may need to be treated if it gets worse with
Nitrofurazone. The Popeye is an internal bacterial infection that needs
to be treated with Metronidazole. After treating your bacteria that
breaks down the fish waste may be gone so I would add some Bio-Spira to
recycle the tank.-Chuck>
Sick Tetras II Thanks for your quick reply. I wanted to follow up
and let you know some more information that I got today. I took the
neon tetras on a little trip back to the Aquarium shop (Aquariums West
in Vancouver) and the staff were baffled by the greeny black patches.
They agreed they looked sick but had seen nothing like it and said it
was not tail rot. They are going to keep them in isolation for a
few days and have a couple of other fish experts take a look. It likely
will not help the fish but I want to know if it will spread to the
other fish and they are very curious. I had our water tested and the
nitrates and ammonia were both zero so I don't think the water is a
problem (I do change the filter every time I do a water change). I will
let you know if they come up with a interesting diagnoses. Thanks again
for your answer and your informative website, Lisa < Diagnoses is
always difficult when you cannot see the animal. Hope they are able to
help. -Chuck>
Dying neon tetras Hi there, <Hi there...this
is Jorie, and I'll try to help...> Have just come across your
site and trawled it for any similar problems to mine, but couldn't
spot anything, so I hope I'm not going to waste your time, but here
goes! <You certainly are not wasting anyone's time - we are here
to help you!> My fiancée and I purchased a 13 gallon tank about 3
weeks ago and set it up as follows: washed gravel in water till it ran
clear, washed resin tank ornaments in the same way. A couple of plastic
plants, but mostly real plants (some sword grass and sword plants, at
least that's what they said they were in the shop). We added
the tap water and treated it with AquaSafe to dechlorinate, etc.
following the instructions on the bottle. We added some AquaPlus water
conditioner and we also added a little plant food that said it was safe
for other tank inhabitants and followed the instructions in both cases
carefully. We have a mechanical, biological and chemical filter
that we checked was the right size for the tank, and a heater that
keeps the water at a constant 78 degrees Fahrenheit. The filter
also has an attachment that can further oxygenate the water (little
pipe attachment to pump out more bubbles). Also have a hood and
light for the tank. We cycled the tank for these weeks, and before we
put any fish in we checked the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH levels:
ammonia, nitrate, nitrate were 0 and pH at 7.5. We live in Glasgow in
Scotland and our water is quite soft. We also added some AquaPlus water
conditioner the morning before the fish went in, because it recommended
doing so for new fish. We bought six jumbo neon tetras yesterday
afternoon - floated the bag for half an hour to get the temperature
even for them, added some tank water gradually over another half an
hour and then released them. They looked pretty happy, we left the
light off to let them settle down and didn't feed them straight
away for the same reason, feeding them a tiny amount about 2 hours
later. Just before we went to bed we checked on them, and two seemed
listless and gasping a little, but still able to swim, not just
floating. This morning 2 were dead upside down on the tank bottom, and
this afternoon two more. We did another water check and the levels were
still fine. The poor guys looked physically ok when they died, apart
from being a little pale - you could still make out the bright colours
on their bodies. They didn't appear bloated with no cuts or gashes
and seemingly normal gills. No signs of fungus or spotting either. When
I was keeping an eye on the second two that died later, they seemed to
get listless and were floating about the main body of the tank rather
than swimming in the plants like the others. They also looked to be
gasping a little. I really don't want to be doing
something wrong and be unknowingly hurting the wee fellas. The last two
seem ok at the moment, although one swims about more than the
other. Do you think it could be something they had already from
the shop, or am I doing something terribly wrong? Do you think I need
to get them some medication, only I am reluctant to do so when they
don't look hurt or diseased and I might do more harm than good? Any
advise greatly appreciated, Charlotte <Charlotte, I'll be
honest, I'm a bit mystified myself as to what's going on! I
read your thorough narrative above, and very honestly, you did
absolutely everything I typically suggest to newcomers, from rinsing
the gravel, cycling the water, keeping the temp. constant, etc. The one
thing that I'd suggest you measure is the water's oxygen level;
you mention that you do have an air filter in the tank, but the gasping
behavior you've noticed makes me think perhaps they fish aren't
getting enough O2. Most major test kit brands have a conversion chart
to measure oxygen levels - I personally use the Tetra brand kit, but I
don't think it matters too much. Just stay away from the "dip
stick" type test kits, as they are pretty unreliable. Aside from
that, I'm thinking perhaps a toxin other than ammonia, nitrite or
nitrite has found its way into the water - I say this because of the
suddenness of the fishes' death. Can you think of *anything* (from
cleaning supplies to air fresheners, for example), that could possibly
be contaminating the water? I don't know if it will help, but you
could try additional water changes and perhaps looking into a
PolyFilter - filter media that removes lots of unwanted toxins, from
phosphates to ammonia. (That's a shot in the dark, though -
it's all I can think of!) You may be correct in thinking your fish
weren't altogether healthy when you purchased them. Any idea how
long they were living at the fish store? That's good question to
ask - the longer the better, but you won't always get that lucky. I
have never personally kept neon tetras, but from what I understand,
they can be fragile. You did well to slowly acclimate them when you
brought 'em home, and as I said above, did everything else
according to the "rules". With regards to medicating, I
don't think I'd go there, especially since you don't see
any observable signs of illness or lacerations. You may indeed do more
harm than good - I never recommend using meds just for the sake of it,
and it's always best to narrow down what's going on before
taking a "shot in the dark" approach to medicating fish. Do
check on the oxygen levels, and think about possible water
contaminants. In the meantime, keep those water levels pristine, and
hopefully the two survivors will be OK. I'll cross my fingers for
you! Good luck, Jorie>
Re: Dying neon tetras Hiya Jorie, <Good morning, Charlotte.>
Thanks so much for your reply, I don't think they had been in the
shop long now I think about it, because we had been in a couple of
times in the days before to get fish food and other things, and
hadn't noticed them when we had a look around. I can't
think of anything I might have accidentally exposed them to (even been
careful not to wear perfume on my wrists in case I need to dive in!)
but maybe I'm forgetting something. I'll definitely look into a
PolyFilter, that sounds a good idea - want to do my best for them, felt
awful for the first ones. Have named the other two Crusoe and Friday as
they are so far survivors! Thanks for all your advise, you've been
really helpful, I'll keep you posted, but so far so good.
Charlotte <Glad to hear Crusoe and Friday are doing well! I
know neon tetras are an extremely popular choice with hobbyists, but my
understanding is that they are remarkably fragile. Additionally, I
believe they are strictly wild-caught (as opposed to tank raised),
which always increases the chances of a fish not acclimating well into
captivity. It sounds as though you are doing absolutely everything you
can to keep these little guys happy and healthy, so I wouldn't beat
yourself up over it too much. Some things just aren't within our
control! Best of luck, Jorie>
Neon tetras that change colour... Hi. I have found your
information about neon tetra very useful, but I am confused about
"neon tetra disease". I first got a fish tank two
years ago and have kept neon tetras in this time. It
didn't take me long to notice that when they changed colour that
this is bad, but the fish did not always die but change back and remain
healthy. <Mmm, Neons do change color sometimes due to
"mood", time of day, interactions with each other... not
always indicative of disease> (I have had one particular neon tetra
for 2 years now). Is this colour changing due to "neon
tetra disease" or is it just stress or bad water? <This
Sporozoan infection is almost always fatal, and quite distinctive (loss
of blue coloring distally): http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/disease/p/neondisease.htm
I don't think your fish have this ailment> I really like my neon
tetras and hope that there is something I can do about this phenomenon.
<Read on. Bob Fenner>
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