Fish QT question    4/20/20
Hi Bob and gang,
<Hi Danny>
I learned my lesson (the hard way) a few years ago and set up a dedicated 29 gallon quarantine tank in the basement. It’s made a huge difference.
<It certainly does!>
My question is this. After a few days, when the fish have settled in and are eating, would you advise beginning a prophylactic copper (Cupramine) treatment even if the new fish don’t show any signs of Crypt or Velvet? Or would you treat with copper only if they show signs of disease?
<I would not treat unless there are visible signs of disease, I suggest watching your fish for a couple of weeks and if everything is fine, just move them to the DT, perhaps just giving a 5-min FW dip/bath (temp/ph adjusted). Cheers. Wil.>
Thanks,
Dan
Re: Fish QT question    4/20/20
Makes sense. Thanks a bunch!
<You're most welcome. Wil.>

Persistent Flashing      11/16/18
Bob,
<Eric>
Hope all is well. I am having an issue with a few of my fish that are in QT. They are continuously flashing and am not sure why. I have had them for 3 weeks and my QT process is as follows:
<Mmm; flashing can be... "just natural" to extents, due to irritants of a wide array: Water quality and parasites most commonly>
Freshwater Dip to check for flukes
7 Day Metro GC for flukes and worms
14 Days of copper than ttm into display
<Ahh, could be just the copper exposure>
Problem I am having though is my fish show no signs of white spot but are constantly flashing at the gills. Tough to explain but my fang tooth blenny is also spinning in a semi-circle to clean its tail. Not sure what else to do? Is it a reaction to the copper, Healing from Ick or velvet, some copper resistant parasite?
<Could be any of these. I wouldn't be overly concerned. With conditions and health returning, the flashing behavior should subside>
Thanks for taking look.
Eric
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Copper in quarantine tank       9/21/18
Hello WWM crew,
<Hey Dan>
Quick question. I have a Maculosus Angelfish (my favorite fish by the way)
<It´s a gorgeous fish!> coming in the mail (via UPS) tomorrow morning. Ever since I lost my entire tank to a Marine Velvet outbreak one year ago I have quarantined everything that has gone in there. No problems since.
<Glad you fixed that issue>
I just did a copper test (Seachem test kit) and I'm getting a copper reading of about 0.25. Basically what Cupramine recommends for the initial dose. This is down from 0.5 after 48 hours of running activated carbon in the hang-on filter and doing a larger water change this afternoon.
My question is, will that level of copper harm the fish upon drip acclimation from 24 hours in a shipping bag? Would I be better off just adding him to my 200 gallon display or quarantining him for a few weeks with a minimum of a half dose of copper in the water? I'd rather quarantine him, but I don't want to kill him with the initial exposure to a half dose of Cupramine in the water.
<Seachem´s Cupramine will absorb any traces of copper. If you can still get it from your LFS today, that would be the route I would take. A second option though, will be to give the Maculosus a Fw bath previous to the addition to the display tank; even though I don´t think this dose of copper to be high enough to be toxic to your angel, please take enough time acclimating it.>
Thanks for your help,
Dan
<Welcome Dan. Wilberth.>
Re: Copper in quarantine tank       9/21/18
Thanks Dan.
I’m now a big believer in quarantine, so I think I’ll add some more activated carbon and do another water change, and then give the new angel a 2 hour drip acclimation to the quarantine tank.
<Good, just don´t let the water temperature in the bag to drop.>
Hopefully that will suffice.
<You will be fine, don't worry. Keep us posted on how it goes. Wilberth.>
Copper in quarantine tank       9/21/18
<Hey Dan, on a previous answer I advised you to use "Seachem´s Cupramine", my mistake; I meant "Cuprisorb". My apologies. Wilberth >
Re: Copper in quarantine tank       9/21/18
Thanks. No worries. I knew what you meant.
Unfortunately I won’t be able to get any Cuprisorb before the fish arrives. But I did double the activated carbon in the filter, so hopefully that and a large water change will lower the copper level further overnight.
<That will help for sure .Wilberth.>

Chloroquine phosphate      1/29/16
Hi Crew
I've been doing quite a bit of reading about quarantine techniques, and although a lot of people recommend Chloroquine Phosphate, there seems to be virtually no scientific evidence, or proof that it really works.
<Actually.... a trip to/through the scientific literature will be revealing>
The closest I've come is this article:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2013/2/fish
...but even this only refers to a study from a few years ago, using already dead fish.
Do you recommend it (and for which diseases), or would you still stick to tried and tested treatments like copper, formalin, etc.?
<I do... please use the search tool on WWM re CP and READ therein. Bob Fenner>
Thanks
Graeme

Quarantining copper sensitive fish; commercial        3/16/15
Hello Crew,
<Howsit Frank?>
I had a question about quarantining copper sensitive fish. I have a fairly small operation importing fish as a wholesaler and I run Cupramine in my quarantine tanks.
<Have used MANY gallons, car-boys of this product over the years>
I wanted to know what your suggestions were for fishes such as wrasses and butterfly fishes since they are more sensitive to copper.
<Mmm; is posted on WWM>
Would you suggest a freshwater dip and placing them in the main system?
<IF in apparently very good shape on arrival, yes... I definitely WOULD do the SOP acclimation for commerce archived>
Or putting them in a separate quarantine system using a different medication?
<Mmm; nah. Have seen around the world where some (smaller) Labrids, even Chaetodontids were placed in invert. systems (along w/ tube-mouthed fishes and Amphiprionines..., but if it were me/mine, I'd stick with the same dosage for all>
If so what would be a good overall medication to use for those fishes sensitive to copper if there is any.
<Also posted. CP. Bob Fenner>

Bob Fenner ( Quarentining SW Fish); commercial/LFS    3/7/14
Hi Bob,
<Colin>
I am the owner of a LFS called Crystal Reef Aquatics in Bellingham Washington  and I am seeking some advice on quarantineing saltwater fish.
I've been in the hobby for almost 6 years so I'm very familiar with standard qt procedures such as no sand or rock, use PVC for hide outs and a sponge filter to break down your waste. The biggest issue I'm running into is picking a medication that is both cost effective and does not effective the fishes health negatively.
<Ah yes>
 I've used copper and had success but I've seen fish go downhill from lack of apatite. I've also used Chloroquine phosphate and had good results with that but I'm sure you are aware that you cannot test for it so it can be hard to guarantee is potency.
<Yes>
And of course PraziPro for your flukes and worms. What is your qt procedure?
<Posted here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm
Medications of choice?
<This too... use the indices or search tool on WWM>
 Also keep in mind the most cost effective( price of salt in water exchanges and in cost of the medication) as we'll as the
duration of time that the fish has to be exposed to the medication?
<Oh yes... I was in the trade, and a content provider... for more years than you've been on the planet>
 Unlike most stores that are of the mentality for quantity over quality our goal here at Crystal Reef Aquatics to supply the hobby with disease free fish so it is an enjoyable experience for the customer and of course a better survival rate on our incoming fish.
<Ah yes; a good; actually, the only reasonable path to building the industry, trade, your business>
Any knowledge or insight on the matter would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time and I look forward
to hearing from you soon!
Best regards,
Colin Apt
<Do write back w/ specific questions after you've read. Bob Fenner>
Re: Bob Fenner ( Quarentining SW Fish)   3/7/14
Thanks for your prompt response!
<Ok>
Do you prefer Chloroquine phosphate or copper for qt? And why?
<... Most often have used copper cpd.s; quinines in my time were too expensive>
Have you used PraziPro with copper or Chloroquine phosphate? If so any negative side effects? Oxygen depletion?
<... have not; but read of others doing so>
How long do you medicate with copper or Chloroquine phosphate? Is one faster then the other?
<This is posted>
How long do you medicate with Prazi pro?
<As is this>
I've heard of people moving a batch of fish to a sterile environment every 3 day to help eradicate Ich. Have you done this method?  If so how successful is it?
<Ditto>
Have you ever used hydrogen peroxide to sterilize a quarantine tank after it's been used to reuse the saltwater?
<Not reliably>
Are there any medications that I didn't mention that you would recommend?
<... read. B>
Thanks again for your time!

new fish in QT tank 5/23/12
Hi,
<Jeff>
I had an attack of velvet in our 55-gallon reef tank that cost us five fish. We moved the survivors to a quarantine tank I set up, and they did well. Eight weeks later, they're now back in the display tank.
<Ok>
I replaced four of the dead fish from our LFS yesterday. I have a dosage of .5 Cupramine in the 20-gallon QT. Filtration is provided by a Fluval canister and an Reef octopus HOB skimmer. The fish in there are a Midas blenny, a coral beauty, a lawnmower blenny and a royal gramma. The Midas and coral beauty seem fine. My question is about the other two. Last night at three in the morning, I woke up for some reason. Since I couldn't get back to sleep, I decided to check in on the fish. There on the carpet next to the tank was the lawnmower blenny (the tank is 95 percent covered).
<Rats!>
He was still alive, so I gently picked him up and put him in the tank and he swam under one of the ornaments and stayed there. Today, while he moves around, he is not at all eating any of the food I put in there for him (no algae in a copper tank, alas), neither the Nori nor the algae flakes. 
Although upright, he's breathing hard, and his tail is often. He's clearly stressed but he also seems to be struggling to navigate the bottom of the tank. Could he have injured himself?
<For sure, yes>
 Is it the kind of injury that might heal?
<Only time can/will tell>
Would he be better off in the DT?
<I'd wait a few days>
the LFS had him for two weeks. the manager said he checks his fish regularly and saw no signs of disease. I'm afraid though if I do move him into the DT, which would obviously have more food for him, he could potentially reinfect that tank.
<Understood>
That also brings up my second question. The royal gramma is completely freaked out by the coral beauty. He ducks away, lays sideways and goes into a panic when the coral beauty (unagressively) swims by. I read on WWM that the royal gramma generally doesn't pick up diseases. Would it be better off if I just put him in the DT without waiting the two to three weeks I was planning to quarantine?
<I'd run all through a preventative bath enroute:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dips_baths.htm
Thanks for any advice.
Jeff
<Welcome. Bob Fenner> 
Re: new fish in QT tank     5/24/12
Hi folks,
<Big J!>
I have a couple of quick quarantine questions to follow up on yesterday's queries (sorry if I'm taking up too much time). After reading your article on setting up quarantine, I'm not quite clear on whether you recommend a copper treatment even if there is no obvious indication of disease.
<I do not... unless there is more than obvious reason/rationale for such>
Right now I have a coral beauty and lawnmower blenny (replacing the one that died after jumping from the tank) in there. I suppose copper won't hurt them,
<Actually, such exposure is harmful>
 except it's hard to feed a lawnmower blenny in a tank where any algae is killed by copper. Should I treat it with Cupramine again? And what do people do with their LBs in a copper-treated QT?
<Again; I would not...>
My second question involves the royal gramma I mentioned yesterday. I gave him a bath and put him in the DT afterward. He did a header right into the substrate and didn't move for five minutes.
<See Adam's HH Guide: "Don't Panic!">
 I started pulling rocks away to get his body out of there when he suddenly jumped up and was fine! This morning, however, I see that he is constantly flashing against the rocks. Could he have an irritation from the Methylene blue?
<The whole procedure; yes>
I see some substrate on him. Could it be that or something more nefarious?
<Lo dudo>
 I'm concerned if I pull him from the tank (where otherwise he is doing fine), he will go back to swimming sideways all stressed again (I think he was frightened of the coral beauty) like he was before removing him from the QT. On the other hand, the idea of a re-infected DT, oy.
<I'd leave it/him as is>
Thanks again for any help,
<Welcome. BobF>
Jeff 

question about QT tank, filtr. & Cu use     2/24/12
Hello Crew, I'm Felix
<Howdy>
First of all thanks for all the wealth of info on your site. I have a question regarding setting a QT for saltwater Ich treatment.
I've heard conflicting arguments whether the tank should have filtration or not.
<Should... along w/ daily monitoring, likely water changes>
Some said that Cupramine would destroy the nitrification bacteria therefore rendering bio filtration useless and the sponges in the filter would absorb copper making monitoring copper level more difficult.
<Copper can/does forestall nitrification to degrees>
Some said that nitrification bacteria would take a hit but not <be> destroyed completely. So it's still worth it to add filtration, as it means less water changes. In your opinion which path should I take when I'm setting up the QT tank?
Thanks :)
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm
the first tray... Quarantine, Filtration, Methods... Bob Fenner>
Re: possible copper dosing in the DT
As you suggested a follow-up, I'm glad to provide.  I ended up pulling about 85% of the LR out of the display and doing hyposalinity.  Everything has settled down now and I'm almost at 3 weeks at 1.09, all remaining fish are doing very well.  The bad news is I lost my beautiful 6 inch Passer Angel, and my 8+ inch Male Crosshatch.  They seemed such healthy fish, they would not have been my first guess of fish to die.  I won't likely purchase anything for a few months, however I'm curious your thoughts on adding a Male Blue Jaw to the system when I do.
<Considering what you've lost... this should be fine>
Could this work with the existing 6 inch Female Crosshatch, or should I leave well enough alone?  Much though I like the Crosshatch pair, I don't think I would spend the money on a new Male.
Thanks again for the help,
Kirk
<Welcome. BobF>

Flame Angel and Hyposalinity in QT    2/16.12
Hi All,
<Perc>
September 2010, my SW tank had an Ick outbreak and so I put my blenny and 2 clownfish into a QT tank for 60 days (2 months).  The 2 clownfish were covered in ick while the blenny was not.  During this period, the main tank had no fish at all. I followed your section on Hyposalinity and it worked out well.
<The Crypt may still be present>
  First seven days began with Ph-adjusted FW Methylene-blue dips every 48 hours.  That got rid of a lot of ick.  During the first week, I also slowly reduced the SG until it was at 1.011 (using a digital refractometer).  After 3 weeks - no more ick.
<Symptomatically>
Next 3 weeks was low salinity and last 2 weeks I gradually increased the salinity to match the main tank.
During the 60 days, I did not use any medication at all.  Thanks for your hyposalinity article because I learned a lot!
Question:
So now I have a Flame angel in a QT tank without hyposalinity conditions.
It is in a mix of the original saltwater from the aquarium shop  (they gave
me lots of extra water) and some pre-made salt mix I made up.
Should I do a hyposalinity quarantine on the Flame angel (juvenile) and at what SG can they withstand?
<Up to you and about the same. DO read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/cryptasbfs.htm
and the linked files above.>
Also, do I really need to do Methylene blue F/W dip ?
<Not necessarily, no. Bob Fenner>
It has no signs of ick and swimming ok and eating.  I don't want to stress it because it is juvenile.  I know my blenny and especially the clown fish got stressed every time I netted them out of QT to the dip and back into the QT from the dip.
Thanks.
Percival

Copper, use in quarantine, on/w/ puffers... Reading      2/11/12
Hi there, I was treating my quarantine tank with copper. I was reading wwm and there are tons of different doses as far as ppm goes. I have my tank at 0.25ppm. Is that alright or should i bump it up to 1.0ppm?
<... 0.2 to 0.35 free copper (cupric ion, CU++), no matter what source/type of product employed...>
 I do have a spiny box puffer in it. Thanks, Jim
<... I would NOT treat puffers (and quite a few other groups of fishes) thus. See, as in read, search on WWM re. Bob Fenner>

Quinine Sulfate for Healthy QT Fish    2/5/12
Hi Bob and crew!
 <Rick>
My display tank was fallow for two months while its current residents were QT'd for Ich (all 6+ months ago).  At the time, no Crypto-Pro was available, and my two Centropyges died within days of adding Cupramine.
<Copper can be very hard on Pomacanthids...>
 After being fallow for so long, and with all the reintroduced inhabitants having been treated with the copper, I think it's likely the crypt has been eradicated from the display tank.
My display tank includes a tang (A. leucosternon), and I don't want to risk introducing Ich.  So even though my QT'd Genicanthus melanospilos has been healthy for a month, I want to dose her for Ich.  In my experience, angels can live with crypt (so she might have it even without symptoms), but it would probably become an outbreak if the tang's exposed.
<Possibly>
Fortunately, I was able to get some Crypto-Pro this time, so I don't have to use copper on another angel.  I pulled the carbon and dosed the tank according to the instructions (except for the part about surgical gloves and a mask -- please pray for me).  FWIW, the instructions should tell you to introduce this stuff mixed well in water.  It clumps more than I expected.
 <Yes; agreed>
Anyway, I'm concerned about some of this dosing.  The instructions say to use the recommended dose (1/8tsp per 10gals) "every 24-hours for ten days, with a 25% water change before each treatment."  Do you interpret this as daily 25% changes? 
<Mmm, IF there's appreciable ammonia, nitrite; yes>
Also, won't the medicine accumulate in the water at this rate?
 <It breaks down rather rapidly... esp. w/ exposure to light>
Finally, if you were me, how would you proceed?  Would you go the whole ten days?
 <IF this is what the maker suggests, yes; though do search through WWM re>
At this point, I'm very satisfied with the health of the swallowtail,
except for the possibility she's carrying unseen Ich.  How do you evaluate the assorted risks here?
<Skin/mucus smears and microscopic examination principally>
Thanks in advance,
Rick
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Re: Should I, shouldn't I...an Achilles Tang, plus quarantine methodology choice/s    12/12/11
Good morning, Bob!
<Hey Jamie>
Thank you for your candid reply! And, thank you for making me a more "conscientious" host to my marine friends! It is very interesting to admit that once I read your answer, I felt a great weight taken off my shoulders.
I can look at my tank and "see" the Tomini doing well in it. I have "stress" when I imagine the Achilles. I guess that with this hobby, like you have said so many times, it is a decision that we make and with each comes its consequences!
<Ah yes>
Here is another question. In light of what I've shared with you regarding the "treatment" that all fishes go through at my LFS and the fact that there are two shipments in each week...Do you think it is correct to make the assumption that the thinking that "they are treating the fish" or "quarantining" the fish LFS is completely false?
<Not completely, but close...>
The fishes are still being exposed to whatever ailments that are introduced with each shipment...So, if a fish has been there for a couple of weeks, looking well and appears to be well adjusted to aquarium life - eating well, associating well with people and its surroundings. I should not hesitate to bring it home to my own quarantine. If left there longer, it will just be subjected to more possible scrooges and stresses?
<Yes>
On quarantine, and I've read most things at WWM and online, there seems to be three main trends:
1. Passive quarantine - get the fish eating, watch, observe for 6 weeks.
If nothing, into the DT it goes. Treat only with obvious signs of infection.
2. Cupramine plus Praziquantel Prophylactic Quarantine - get the fish to eat, once eating treat with 3 weeks Cupramine, then Praziquantel for a week or two.
3. Hyposalinity Quarantine - get fish to eat, lower salinity to 1.010 then watch for 4-6 weeks, if nothing, then start raising salinity after arriving
at 1.023 then Praziquantel for another week or two, then DT.
The forth type of quarantine is less popular it seems, and that one is - get fish to eat, treat with Quinine Sulfate or Chloroquine diphosphate through one treatment (7 days for QS and 10 days for CD), then watch for two weeks. If all is well, then DT.
Which one do you see the home aquarist succeed at more often?
<The first... as it is by far the most common>
Again, Bob, Thanks a Million!
You have, again, saved me from another headache!
My husband wants to thanks you most sincerely as I just told him that the Achilles is off our list.
Jamie
<Cheers, BobF>
Re: Should I, shouldn't I...an Achilles Tang   12/12/11
Dear Bob,
In your opinion, which is the most effective quarantine procedure?
<Depends on the species, family involved>
I guess, the most thorough will be the Cupramine plus Prazi, but I also worry about exposing the fish to unnecessary copper which I've read often shorten the fish's lives. What are your thoughts?
<FW dips/baths... w/ formalin... if determined reasonable... This is gone over on WWM. B>
Thank you!
Jamie

Quarantine 12/2/11
Hi Crew,
<Hi Sam>
This is just a plug for the idea of QT even though I don't do it. Over the years I have had a few outbreaks of ick but since I just have a 24 gallon I take the risk of putting new fish straight in. The other day I decided to pick up a Apogon compressus (blue eyed cardinal) from someone who was closing up his tank and lived nearby. As it turns out I should never have gotten that fish because it is too big for my tank. For some reason or other I thought it grew to 2.5 inches max. One place I checked today showed as much as 4.5.
<Common wild size is more like 3.5 inches and likely less under captive conditions.>
I picked up the fish and got home in 15 minutes so I figured that QT was not even needed since it was healthy in his tank for over a year and 15 minutes of stress shouldn't hurt him. Anyway, within 24 hours he has it. 
So far he is eating well. At this point I don't know if it is worth trying to remove him. If none of the others fish pick it up I will just hope he gets over and immune to it. Otherwise I will have to take them all out and treat. I still have copper that I used a few years ago. But lately you have been suggesting other meds so I will keep them in mind as well.
<Live and learn.>
Thanks,
<You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
Sam
Re Quarantine 12/6/11
Update:. I put him in a container with malachite green for about a half hour. He came out looking good and that was Friday and now it is Monday and he is still clean. I never got rid of it that quick so maybe I misdiagnosed.
<Thanks for the update Sam.  Let's hope it stays that way. James (Salty Dog)>

Paraguard and Furan II  9/5.5/11
Greetings,
<Howdy>
I've been following and browsing WWM for almost a year, great site for us hobbyists :) thanks a bunch for it and keep up the good work. Well, about a week ago I purchased a few fishes from my LFS, 2 black Perculas and 1 cleaner wrasse.
<Mmm, we really don't endorse the keeping of Labroides spp.. Most don't live>
I placed them all in a 10 Gal QT and they were doing fine up until Thursday, when one of the Clownfishes started to look lethargic, stayed at the bottom of the tank and wouldn't eat.
<... what re water quality here?>
On Thursday I noticed a couple of spots on one of the Clownfishes so I started to dose Paraguard as a prophylactic measure.
<... what? Toxic!>
 The fish didn't seem stressed, even the wrasse is doing well, I know they are hard to keep, but this one is biting on flakes and eating brine shrimp aside from trying to clean the Clownfishes every now and then. Well, the one clownfish that was not doing so well just passed about an hr ago,
<?!>
and now I'm concerned about the other one and the wrasse. I didn't see anything on the clownfish now that I took it out, it did seem skinny so I think it might have starved to death, although I don't want to risk loosing the other two. Could it be a bacterial disease and would it be contagious for the other CF and the wrasse???
<... Again... I don't think these fishes have pathogenic troubles, but poor environment>
I was thinking on keeping Paraguard for the remaining of the 3 or 4 week treatment for itch and to add Furan 2 for 4 days just to try to fight off any internal bacterial disease. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks you.
Best Regards,
Ed
<Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/quarsysmaintfaqs.htm
and here: http://wetwebmedia.com/quarsysfiltrfaqs.htm
<And soon. Bob Fenner>

Ick, UV and QT, 7/6/10
Hi Team,
<Hello>
We have a Valentini puffer in a quarantine tank at present, who is showing signs of Ick. She is currently sharing the qt with two Chromis (no signs at present).
<But probably still infected.>
I've read a lot of discussion on Ick which says "a bare bottom tank for qt is only half the solution", and others which say "UV in a display tank is only half the solution".
Could they work well together as a whole solution - i.e.. a bare bottomed tank with good circulation, which passes its water through a UV to kill the cysts when they drop?
<A UV will not effect a cure, and a bare bottom tank alone does nothing but provide a suitable tank for chemotherapy.>
What are your thoughts? Do you think the UV will kill the cysts, as opposed to just the free-swimming parasites?
<Will not kill either reliably.>
(pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate all good in qt. Salinity is normal; I am hesitant to drop the salinity as I have read conflicting information on how this does/doesn't stress the fish over extended periods.)
<I would investigate one of the Quinine drugs for use with a puffer.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quinmedfaqs.htm .>
Best regards,
Matt
<Chris>

Tangs with ich in QT Crypt control in QT Medication and dosing. 4/3/2010
Hi WWM Crew!
<Hi Mike>
A number of years ago I had an ich outbreak in my DT. I believe that it was from a Flame Angel that I added to the tank only after 10 days of QT.
I now know that this is about 20 days to short. I first tried to treat the QT tanks with chelated copper, but I found it extremely difficulty to maintain the proper concentration.
<It is a challenge.>
I don't know if I should give the mfg name, but both the copper medication and test kit were by the same mfg. I never saw any shades of blue using the test kit after adding copper to the tank. I even tried to test the copper medication directly. I should have seen a color change then but I didn't. Out of fear of adding too much copper, I just followed the mfg dosing schedule on the bottle (I now understand this is dangerous). After two weeks of treatment, you guest it, white spots again!
<Really need longer than this to truly break the lifecycle.>
At the time, my LFS suggested that I try Formalin.
<Umm... as a dip>
The fish in the QT tank were: 1 Flame Angel, 1 Royal Gramma, 2 False Perc Clown, 1 Diamond Goby, and 1 Blue Hippo Tang. They said to follow the mfg's instructions on the bottle (see dosage level below). After four days
of treatment, all the fish looked good (I now know this is normal too). I stopped the treatment as directed and waited. After a few days, the white spots were back.
<No Surprise there.>
After about 12 weeks, and most of the fish dying (a bad way to quickly solve the ich problem), I didn't see any signs of ich for a period of four weeks.
<Formalin is a biocide - it kills ALL life. Hence it should not be used for anything other than a dip. Read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/formalinart.htm>
I then returned the surviving fish, 2 False Perc Clowns and a Royal Gamma, back to the DT which was fallow the whole time. I haven't seen any ich in my DT since then, or at least during my waking hours!
<Ok.>
Since then I have strictly practiced quarantining all new fish for a period of at least four weeks before adding them to my DT.
<Excellent.>
My DT is 75 gal reef tank, 20 gal sump, salinity 1.025 (told this was good for shrimp), UV sterilizer, and a protein skimmer. I have a 20 gal QT with a power head, air stone, heater, and a hang on filter. It sits empty in the garage until needed. I use water from my DT when setting it up.
<All sounds good.>
Finally, the questions and problems. Over the years, I have tried numerous Blue Hippo Tangs.
<A species that seems to be an "ich magnet">
Every time with the same results. A few days after adding them to my QT they get ich. I try to treat them with Formalin following the mfg's instructions, the ich returns, they stop eating, and then death. I decided to stop killing fish for a while, so I quit buying them until recently.
<Ok.>
I went to a new LFS, and they said that I should be having this much trouble with Blue Hippo Tangs. They even said to add them directly to my DT.
<I would not trust that LFS.>
I let them talk me into trying a Blue Hippo again, and I also bought a False Per Clown (the male I had in my DT recently died). I put them into my QT tank, against the advice of my LFS (because of my white spot filled nightmares).
<Smart.>
They both came from the same DT at the LFS so I thought it was okay to QT them in the same tank.
<Should be fine.>
I started with the salinity at 1.025. After a few days, I did a 8 gal water change. Both of the fish were eating and appeared very healthy. A few days later, the white spots appeared yet again.
Before treating with Formalin this time, I contacted the mfg of the Formalin product I was using. They said that it was safe for Tangs,
<Tangs are very sensitive to Formalin.>
and that I should treat them for 28 days performing daily water changes and Formalin dosing based on the ich life cycle.
<I disagree.>
I added 10 ml every day as directed (5ml per 10 gal) in conjunction with 8 gal water changes. The Formalin bottle says that it contains less than 5% formaldehyde, so I don't know the exact concentration. I also started slowly lowering the salinity to 1.016 with the daily water changes, since this is what the LFS keeps their fish at. I also thought that the lower salinity would help slow the ich production.
<I think it can help, but it will not cure.>
This might have just doubled the stress factor though. In addition, I increased the water temp to about 81 deg.
<Ok>
After 10 days the ich is still present and now it appears the fish are just about dead.
<Stress and long term exposure to Formalin.>
I didn't see any real significant distress in the fish until yesterday.
They were both swimming and eating well (Romaine lettuce, garlic soaked Thera pellets, Mysis shrimp, and Formula 2). I immediately did at 30% water change, changed the poly filter, and did not add any more Formalin. I
also tried a temp PH adjusted FW dip on the Clown, but it was laying on its side after about 2 min. I quickly put it back in the QT. I did not do this for the Tang, I figured the stress would just kill it. It's probably too late to do anything else now, but they are still breathing.
<I would stop the formalin treatments immediately. Add activated carbon to try and soak up as much as you can.>
If Tangs do not handle copper or Formalin well, what do you do in a QT when these fish show signs of ich?
<Quinine.>
Most of the information that I have read on WWM is for cases where you have ich in your DT. A FW or medicated dip just puts the fish back in an infected tank. What am I missing in my reading? I really hate to continue
killing fish like this. I think that Tangs just might not be the fish for me.
<There is a third, newer option Quinine. Read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quinmedfaqs.htm >
Mike
<MikeV> 

Re: Tangs with ich in QT Crypt control in QT Medication and dosing. Quinine Choices 4/5/2010
Hi Mike,
<Hi Mike.>
Thanks for your quick response, but the Tang did not make it.
<Sorry to hear that..>
So far the clown fish is still alive and continuing to eat well.
<Good.>
As you suggested, I added carbon to the filter to remove the Formalin.
You also suggested to try Quinine next time. What should I do for the clown now?
<Keep in QT, if it starts to show signs of Ich, then treat with quinine.>
If Quinine, which compound do you recommend?
Should I use Quinine Sulfate or something else?
< http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/ sells quinine sulfate which works well.>
Thanks again,
<My Pleasure.>
Mike
<MikeV>

To medicate or not to medicate (while in quarantine)? 2/1/2010
Good morning Crew -
<Good afternoon Chris>
After a long, unsuccessful battle with crypt a few months back, I'm in the slow process of restocking my tank. I've read and researched, asked questions and am doing whatever I can to not make the same mistakes I made the first time around. The end result is that I've got a few new quarantine tanks in the basement (one each for fish, inverts/algae, corals) and I've become a bit of a QT Nazi, for lack of a better description.
<Yes, but whereas the Nazi's were bad, quarantine is definitely good!>
There are dozens of techniques/methods for acclimating new arrivals (dips, baths, etc.) and a host of procedures for quarantining / treating all of the different critters that will someday make themselves at home in my living room, and differences range from the benign to the extreme
<yes they do>.
I've taken what I believe the be the best information from all of the different sources I've read, and have acclimation and QT procedures for fish, mobile inverts, sessile inverts; all of which are manageable for me, within the confines of my available space/time/resources, and, I believe, give me the best chance of not introducing another deadly and/or destructive organism into my tank.
<It sounds like you have taken a lot of time and effort to learn all of this which is to your credit and will be to the benefit of the creatures that you keep>.
There's one part of the QT process that I'm unclear on, however, that I'd like another opinion on.
<Ok, but be advised that all you will get is my opinion. You must come to your own conclusions with reading, learning and experience>
After doing any dips/baths I feel necessary upon inspection of new arrivals/purchases, once the animal is in quarantine, should I treat it if I see no obvious signs of any disease?
<For invertebrates I would not, but for fishes I personally treat all with Chloroquine Phosphate. This viewpoint is not shared by all however, there are other, equally valid, courses/ actions>.
I'm a big fan of 'if its not broken, don't fix it' but I've been told that I'm playing with fire by not using  copper/formalin/malachite green or something other for unseen crypt parasites, or hyposalinity and increased temps for crypt and any other potential fish-killers.
<Yes, but with the advent of C.P. I feel that many concerns about unnecessarily medicating fishes are negated>.
Then there's flat-worm exit for corals, interceptor, fluke-exit, etc. etc.
<Yes, there are'¦.>
For now, my thinking is that the fishes have been through enough already when they get to my house. I dip (m. blue or iodine), then just maintain good, clean, stable water conditions and watch for disease (or unwanted inverts riding along with corals) in quarantine.
<This is a perfectly valid procedure, I use a freshwater dip before QT myself>
If nothing turns up over the course of 35 days, I acclimate to main tank water, introduce to the reef, and enjoy with the family. <Yes> If something warrants further attention while under observation, needs medication more drastic measures, I deal with it as it comes. Am I okay with this line of thought, <Yes, I think you are> or should I really employ some sort of chemical warfare against unseen enemies during the quarantine period?
<Well, there are no rules here. IMO with the more hardy fishes there is no reason not to use C.P. It is your choice with the more sensitive ones, and with fishes that do not stand well to protracted QT procedures (for example Ctenochaetus Tangs are not good survivors). As long as you are using a QT tank and watching for anything unusual then you will avoid most problems, whether or not you resort to 'chemical warfare'>
Thank you,
<No problem>
Chris
<Simon>

Copper And QT Filter/Quarantine 11/5/09
Hi,
<Hello Anne>
I need to setup my empty 55g as a QT tank. I don't have any type of filter sitting in the sump ready to go for this tank.
Would I be ok to do frequent water changes to keep the ammonia in check?
I'm planning on using copper(fish with ick in DT) and was under the impression that copper would kill any beneficial bacteria from a filter. Is this true?
<Yes, but you may be able to avoid using copper and start with a freshwater dip, and/or or use quinine which is much safer than copper. There are many marine fish that are quite sensitive to copper so care must be taken here when selecting medication for treatment.
Check out the quinine FAQ's here.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quinmedfaqs.htm>
Thank you,
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Anne Canfield

Treating for Ich vs. Ammonia Spike Question 10/20/09
Hi crew,
<Hello>
For new fish arrivals, I currently use a 10 gallon QT with the following equipment:
No substrate
A heater
A power head
Whisper10 filter that includes a fuzzy sponge type insert that is supposedly for "good bacteria" to grow on it for biological filtration.
<Sounds good.>
In the past, I have tried to use the thin sponge cartridge that inserts into the Whisper 10 filter along with some of those "Bio Stars" that I've hung in my main tank for a few weeks prior to setting up my QT for biological filtration but this was never enough to keep my Ammonia level at 0.
<Surprising, are you QTing multiple fish at the same time or feeding heavily?>
So, now I use live rock in the QT and that gives the new fish places to feel safe and it keeps the Ammonia level easily at 0. This practice, along with keeping new fish quarantined for a full 30 days before moving to my main tank has kept the main tank disease free since 2004.
<Good>
The only problem is that now I have a newly purchased Dwarf Angel fish (Coral Beauty) that has been in the QT since October 3. It took about a week to start eating but when it finally started it has been eating well every day and looking fine until last night. I saw some white spots on it's pectoral fins.
This morning it has now stopped eating. I now fear the fish has Ich.
<Possibly>
I have Sea Cure Copper and a test kit and even though these fish are supposedly sensitive to Copper, it is all that I have and I want to start treating the fish but my question is this:
<Ok>
I know that I have to pull out all of the live rock from the QT tank so that the copper will be effective but if I do this, I fear that the fish will die from the Ammonia spiking up due to the lack of biological filtration.
<Water changes.>
I don't think that flimsy sponge inside the Whisper filter will be enough to keep the Ammonia level safe while I treat the fish with Copper.
<The copper would just kill it off regardless.>
How can I keep the Ammonia levels at 0 with some sort of biological filtration that won't absorb the copper so I can successfully treat the fish?
<Lots and lots of water changes, most likely needed daily. Can also an ammonia binder to help between changes.>
Thanks,
Lynne
<Welcome>
<Chris>

Re: Treating for Ich vs. Ammonia Spike Question 10/21/09
Hi Chris,
<Hello>
To answer one of your questions. I only have one fish at a time in the QT.
<Ok>
Now that I have opened my Copper and read the instructions it recommends keeping a therapeutic range of between .15 mg/l and .20mgl.
<Ok>
I have an API test kit that only measures a wide range of copper levels of .25 to 2.0. which makes using the SeaCure brand of copper I have risky.
<Agreed, best to always get the test kit from the same manufacturer as the copper treatment to avoid such issues.>
Since this type of fish is sensitive to copper anyway and now I realize that my copper and my test kits are incompatible is there another non-copper related treatment you can recommend that I do given my equipment and my fish?
<I like the quinine drugs, Quinine Sulfate or Chloroquine Phosphate , both are easier on copper sensitive fish and fairly effective, but expensive and can be difficult to find. Otherwise formalin runs a distant second.>
Lynne
<Chris>